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   3 2014-03-22 00:00:43 <midnightmagic> cool
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   5 2014-03-22 00:01:42 <sipa> the orphan pool has stricter requirements though
   6 2014-03-22 00:01:54 <linagee> if I had to depend upon only one node feeding me the blockchain, could I still trust it? (after a few blocks, wouldn't it be insane to assume they're feeding me false data with all of the hash power required to forge data?)
   7 2014-03-22 00:01:55 <sipa> it only keeps small transactions and a limit number of them
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   9 2014-03-22 00:02:12 <sipa> linagee: define 'false data' ?
  10 2014-03-22 00:02:23 <sipa> linagee: as a full node, you validate everything, so they can't send you an invalid chain
  11 2014-03-22 00:02:41 <sipa> linagee: you can of course be fed a side chain, or a chain with less work than the 'real' one
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  13 2014-03-22 00:02:56 <sipa> which is a sybil attack
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  15 2014-03-22 00:03:10 <linagee> sipa: don't wallets know what the difficulty is supposed to be?
  16 2014-03-22 00:03:15 <sipa> no, how could they?
  17 2014-03-22 00:03:44 <linagee> hrm. I guess if the aparent difficulty dropped off from the previous block? *shrug*
  18 2014-03-22 00:03:57 <maaku> linagee: you are assuming your current view of the chain is correct
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  20 2014-03-22 00:04:07 <sipa> linagee: that's a validity rule
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  22 2014-03-22 00:04:12 <midnightmagic> it looks like it's just a straight buffer and other tx are bumped out of it as new orphans fill it up; currently sized at a hard 10,000 tx.
  23 2014-03-22 00:04:14 <sipa> linagee: so yes, they can't send you an invalid chain
  24 2014-03-22 00:04:26 <sipa> linagee: but they can send you the *wrong* chain as long as it is valid
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  26 2014-03-22 00:05:12 <linagee> sipa: I'm doing thought experiments about whether a one-way blockchain radio service is feasible. (whether using wifi with UDP packets, or something like it.)
  27 2014-03-22 00:05:22 <midnightmagic> orphan tx size max in my copy of the source ( d6e0e171ab2ca23be33b440d7c007d360de29c48 ) is 5000 bytes.
  28 2014-03-22 00:05:25 <sipa> linagee: sure
  29 2014-03-22 00:05:57 <linagee> sipa: if multiple independant people were saying the same thing, I guess it becomes more believable...
  30 2014-03-22 00:06:13 <sipa> linagee: that's not relevant really
  31 2014-03-22 00:06:19 <arubi> you would also need the same genesis block for everyone
  32 2014-03-22 00:06:19 <sipa> linagee: all you need is one person telling the truth
  33 2014-03-22 00:06:30 <arubi> before the sync starts
  34 2014-03-22 00:06:37 <linagee> arubi: this is assuming the people listening would already have bitcoind and a full blockchain.
  35 2014-03-22 00:06:53 <linagee> arubi: (and bitcoind already has those "anchor points" in code)
  36 2014-03-22 00:07:05 <arubi> well, I'm saying the genesis is what counts
  37 2014-03-22 00:07:09 <sipa> linagee: whether one or 1500 peers tell you the same thing doesn't make it more believable
  38 2014-03-22 00:07:19 <sipa> linagee: as if it is invalid, you will detect it
  39 2014-03-22 00:07:41 <sipa> linagee: and if there's a better chain, one peer telling you about it is enough, despite 1500 claiming otherwise
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  44 2014-03-22 00:08:49 <linagee> sipa: so - what is the point for the average full node connecting to 8 peers then? just so it can repeat blocks?
  45 2014-03-22 00:09:25 <sipa> linagee: to be sure there's at least one honest one
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  47 2014-03-22 00:09:43 <maaku> linagee: graph connectivity
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  49 2014-03-22 00:09:58 <sipa> that too, but incoming connections are more important for that
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  51 2014-03-22 00:10:17 <maaku> well, if everyone only made one connection...
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  53 2014-03-22 00:10:38 <sipa> yeah, every incoming connection is an outogoing one elsewhere of course
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  85 2014-03-22 00:37:17 <jgarzik> Summary of transaction outputs, past 2 years, version 4:
  86 2014-03-22 00:37:19 <jgarzik> http://0bin.net/paste/47w1-XaxWFHR-+a5#MQ7eaYMiNI3+VovT4snUoBj/0PUykcmptjc1MiR6PVg=
  87 2014-03-22 00:37:37 <jgarzik> justanotheruser, ^
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  89 2014-03-22 00:38:26 <justanotheruser> jgarzik: ?
  90 2014-03-22 00:38:27 <justanotheruser> Error
  91 2014-03-22 00:38:27 <justanotheruser> Could not decrypt data (Wrong key ?)
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  93 2014-03-22 00:39:39 <jgarzik> justanotheruser, very odd, works here.
  94 2014-03-22 00:40:01 <justanotheruser> oops, deleted the ending =
  95 2014-03-22 00:40:21 <justanotheruser> jgarzik: interesting. I expected more
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  98 2014-03-22 00:43:31 <warren> Is pywallet not able to read everything from 0.9's wallet.dat yet?
  99 2014-03-22 00:44:09 <justanotheruser> I mean counterparty burned a few thousand bitcoins, I would expect more than 0.008 to be burned in the better way.
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 120 2014-03-22 01:00:52 <lianj> jgarzik: http://webbtc.com/stats also Script Types
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 129 2014-03-22 01:05:41 <arubi> ^^ blockchain size : 15.7GB ... more like 19gb :(
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 131 2014-03-22 01:06:56 <lianj> arubi: not if you only take mainchain
 132 2014-03-22 01:07:47 <arubi> is there 3gb+ of garbage in the chain?
 133 2014-03-22 01:08:36 <lianj> on your disk, seems like it :D
 134 2014-03-22 01:08:43 <sipa> the block chain: 16G
 135 2014-03-22 01:08:52 <sipa> undo data: 2.1G
 136 2014-03-22 01:09:04 <sipa> chainstate 0.4G
 137 2014-03-22 01:09:32 <arubi> :) man I love this channel
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 146 2014-03-22 01:20:31 <Guest3080_> Me too @arubi
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 148 2014-03-22 01:22:20 <Guest3080_> Me too @arubi
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 174 2014-03-22 01:49:43 <petertodd> Luke-Jr: you should clarify exactly what you disagree with with regard to my statement on coiledcoin
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 177 2014-03-22 01:51:32 <jgarzik> lianj, nod.  I wanted to get (a) deeper information on multisig usage, and (b) a -recent- snapshot of numbers, not just numbers for all time
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 190 2014-03-22 02:00:01 <Luke-Jr> petertodd: don't play dumb
 191 2014-03-22 02:00:14 <petertodd> Luke-Jr: no I'm quite serious.
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 205 2014-03-22 02:08:22 <petertodd> Luke-Jr: in particular, what exactly are you saying you did here and how does that differ from my statement? https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=56675.msg678006#msg678006
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 261 2014-03-22 03:05:05 <jgarzik> CodeShark, what is CodeClasses license, specifically HD wallet stuff?  I'm looking to steal code for my MIT-licensed C library
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 263 2014-03-22 03:05:21 <CodeShark> CodeClasses is MIT licensed
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 265 2014-03-22 03:05:33 <CodeShark> err
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 268 2014-03-22 03:05:36 <CodeShark> CoinClasses
 269 2014-03-22 03:05:49 <CodeShark> CoinQ and CoinDB are GPL
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 272 2014-03-22 03:07:43 <CodeShark> jgarzik: if you could add secure buffer allocators to CoinClasses' hdkeys it would be great :)
 273 2014-03-22 03:07:54 <CodeShark> but yeah, feel free to use CoinClasses
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 276 2014-03-22 03:10:35 <jgarzik> CodeShark, heh note I said "C"
 277 2014-03-22 03:10:51 <jgarzik> CodeShark, it will be heavily butchered
 278 2014-03-22 03:11:06 <jgarzik> CodeShark, https://github.com/jgarzik/picocoin/
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 280 2014-03-22 03:12:29 <CodeShark> isn't C++ to C conversion mostly just explicitly expressing the first parameter to methods as an object pointer? :)
 281 2014-03-22 03:12:45 <jgarzik> CodeShark, heh
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 307 2014-03-22 03:41:28 <jgarzik> JavaScript block scan: 23 minutes
 308 2014-03-22 03:41:33 <jgarzik> C block scan: < 2 minutes
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 312 2014-03-22 03:42:36 <justanotheruser> jgarzik: why are you using javascript for that in the first place?
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 317 2014-03-22 03:44:04 <jgarzik> justanotheruser, ease of coding
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 379 2014-03-22 04:47:34 <Guest3080_> QUESTION: Hello guys! How can I gain status of maintainer or reviewer in https://www.transifex.com/organization/bitcoin/dashboard ? Thank you.
 380 2014-03-22 04:47:54 Guest3080_ is now known as felipelalli
 381 2014-03-22 04:48:06 <felipelalli> Repeating the question with my real nick:
 382 2014-03-22 04:48:07 <felipelalli> QUESTION: Hello guys! How can I gain status of maintainer or reviewer in https://www.transifex.com/organization/bitcoin/dashboard ? Thank you.
 383 2014-03-22 04:48:32 wallet42 has joined
 384 2014-03-22 04:48:39 <felipelalli> I'd like to configure the description, logo etc. of project Bitcoin inside Transifex
 385 2014-03-22 04:49:17 brson_ is now known as brson
 386 2014-03-22 04:49:27 <felipelalli> Also I want to be able to make review in Portuguese BR. My Portuguese is perfect, I studied the grammar several years and I am native speaker.
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 393 2014-03-22 04:56:34 <justanotheruser> Noob question: Why can't I find main in init.cpp?
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 404 2014-03-22 05:05:29 <phantomcircuit> justanotheruser, because it's in main.cpp
 405 2014-03-22 05:05:47 <justanotheruser> phantomcircuit: ... "he main() entry point to the program is in init.cpp. Do not go looking in main.cpp for main() - you will not find it."
 406 2014-03-22 05:06:01 <justanotheruser> freaking bitcoin.it paywalls
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 413 2014-03-22 05:10:27 <Luke-Jr> justanotheruser: do you want to edit?
 414 2014-03-22 05:11:09 <justanotheruser> Luke-Jr: no, just understand
 415 2014-03-22 05:11:18 <Luke-Jr> ?
 416 2014-03-22 05:11:25 <Luke-Jr> if it's wrong, please fix it :P
 417 2014-03-22 05:11:31 <Luke-Jr> SomeoneWeird: *summon*
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 419 2014-03-22 05:11:46 <justanotheruser> Luke-Jr: Oh, I thought you were talking about the bitcoin source. Yes, if the wikis wrong I would like to edit it.
 420 2014-03-22 05:12:27 <justanotheruser> But I can't find main() in either init or main.
 421 2014-03-22 05:13:37 jtcwang has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 422 2014-03-22 05:13:42 <Luke-Jr> src/qt/bitcoin.cpp src/bitcoind.cpp and src/bitcoin-cli.cpp
 423 2014-03-22 05:13:44 <Luke-Jr> have mains
 424 2014-03-22 05:14:04 <justanotheruser> Cool, thanks
 425 2014-03-22 05:15:48 <justanotheruser> Luke-Jr: Does bitcoin.it not require 0.001btc to edit anymore?
 426 2014-03-22 05:16:17 <justanotheruser> Or whatever it was, 0.01
 427 2014-03-22 05:16:29 <Luke-Jr> justanotheruser: SomeoneWeird can bypass it for people
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 524 2014-03-22 07:51:13 <shripadk> hello all :)
 525 2014-03-22 07:51:39 <shripadk> i'm having a hard time compiling bitcoin v0.9 on osx.
 526 2014-03-22 07:52:19 <shripadk> the build completes but when I run bitcoind i get a "pointer being freed was not allocated" error
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 541 2014-03-22 08:14:35 <fanquake> shripak can you upload an error log somewhere?
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 558 2014-03-22 08:47:58 <quaz0r> /usr/lib64/libmemenv.a(memenv.o): relocation R_X86_64_32S against `.rodata' can not be
 559 2014-03-22 08:48:01 <quaz0r> used when making a shared object; recompile with -fPIC
 560 2014-03-22 08:48:03 <quaz0r> /usr/lib64/libmemenv.a: error adding symbols: Bad value
 561 2014-03-22 08:48:12 <quaz0r> anybody else get this?
 562 2014-03-22 08:48:42 brson has quit (Quit: leaving)
 563 2014-03-22 08:48:58 <wumpus> my guess: you're trying to link a static library that is not compiled with -fPIC into a position independent executable
 564 2014-03-22 08:49:34 <quaz0r> shrug
 565 2014-03-22 08:49:46 <quaz0r> im just trying update stuff
 566 2014-03-22 08:49:59 ashengine has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
 567 2014-03-22 08:50:06 <wumpus> easiest would be to find a dynamic library version of libmemenv
 568 2014-03-22 08:50:42 <wumpus> (or disable -pie to not build a position independent executable)
 569 2014-03-22 08:50:45 <quaz0r> from what i gather googling it sounds like its from leveldb
 570 2014-03-22 08:51:07 <wumpus> hmm
 571 2014-03-22 08:51:23 <wumpus> try nuking everything in your build directory and starting from scratch
 572 2014-03-22 08:51:32 <wumpus> maybe some old libmemenv.a is still around
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 576 2014-03-22 08:53:04 <aschildbach> Luke-Jr: do you plan to update http://luke.dashjr.org/programs/bitcoin/files/charts/branches.html ?
 577 2014-03-22 08:53:05 <wumpus> it's strange that it tries to use the library in /usr/lib64 though, it should use the embedded leveldb
 578 2014-03-22 08:53:34 <wumpus> (which does get build with -fPIC if --enable-hardening)
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 615 2014-03-22 10:07:53 <XtR123> Hello i dont know why my wallet doesn`t download the block chain it stucks 10 days ago and it showing me 8 active connection to the network
 616 2014-03-22 10:08:00 <XtR123> v0.9.0.0-g92d25e4-beta (64-bit)
 617 2014-03-22 10:08:09 <XtR123> this is my version
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 629 2014-03-22 10:26:49 <olalonde> gmaxwell: is there a signature scheme for HD wallet extended keys?
 630 2014-03-22 10:29:22 <olalonde> I guess I could just sign a message with the non extended private key and publish the extended public key?
 631 2014-03-22 10:30:01 <cbeams_> I'm attempting to build v0.9.0 following the instructions at doc/build-osx.md. brew install, autogen, configure all complete error-free. make fails quickly with the following: https://gist.github.com/anonymous/9704573. Ideas?
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 638 2014-03-22 10:34:51 cbeams is now known as cbeams_
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 645 2014-03-22 10:43:56 <cbeams> Is there a better forum in which to ask build-related questions? (as I just did, logged at http://bitcoinstats.com/irc/bitcoin-dev/logs/2014/03/22#l1395484130)
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 651 2014-03-22 10:49:44 <fanquake> cbeams still here?
 652 2014-03-22 10:49:52 <cbeams> yes.
 653 2014-03-22 10:50:39 <fanquake> Ill tell you how to fix that. One sec.
 654 2014-03-22 10:51:54 <fanquake> cbeams You should try installing boost from source.
 655 2014-03-22 10:52:11 <cbeams> I installed with brew.
 656 2014-03-22 10:52:13 <fanquake> Pretty certain I had the exact same problem, building from source seemed to fix it.
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 658 2014-03-22 10:52:21 <fanquake> No problem. Just do
 659 2014-03-22 10:52:33 <fanquake> brew install boost --HEAD
 660 2014-03-22 10:53:00 <cbeams> running now thanks.
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 662 2014-03-22 10:53:12 <cbeams> ftr, had to `brew unlink boost` prior.
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 683 2014-03-22 11:10:55 <ielo> where is genjix
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 685 2014-03-22 11:11:03 <ielo> whoops
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 688 2014-03-22 11:15:34 <gmaxwell> XtR123: as you've probably noticed by now, it probably continued again after the next block on the network.
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 698 2014-03-22 11:27:38 <halfcab123> Hello
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 724 2014-03-22 12:08:20 <cbeams> fanquake: /usr/local/Cellar/boost/HEAD: 10482 files, 444M, built in 29.5 minutes
 725 2014-03-22 12:08:25 <cbeams> (building Boost from HEAD solved the problem, thanks.)
 726 2014-03-22 12:08:39 <cbeams> Pull request at https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/3936
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 753 2014-03-22 13:06:20 <testicletoucher> is there a clear guide to how a json transaction gets converted into hex?
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 758 2014-03-22 13:09:28 <cbeams> testicletoucher (really?): not necessarily a precise answer to your question, but this document may help, if you're not already familiar: http://bitcoindev.us.to/en/developer-guide#transactions
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 761 2014-03-22 13:12:34 <ribasushi> there is this multicoin client fork of the main client back in 2011
 762 2014-03-22 13:12:36 <ribasushi> seems to have died
 763 2014-03-22 13:12:38 <testicletoucher> oh it got updated from last time
 764 2014-03-22 13:12:39 <ribasushi> why is this?
 765 2014-03-22 13:12:57 <ribasushi> is there no interest in multi-network daemons?
 766 2014-03-22 13:14:40 <Akima> ribasushi: I'd prefer to have multiple daemons and a multi-daemon client
 767 2014-03-22 13:15:07 <Akima> inline with UNIX philosophy: smalls tools that do one job very well
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 769 2014-03-22 13:16:08 <Akima> not big (bloated) tools that try to do many jobs well and through their large size and inherent complexity tend to work badly
 770 2014-03-22 13:17:12 <ribasushi> well, by this logic having a UI + rpc + wallet + p2p node in one tool is exceedingly bloated as well :)
 771 2014-03-22 13:17:38 <cbeams> ribasushi: I think most core devs these days would agree.
 772 2014-03-22 13:18:16 <ribasushi> a wallet-less, UI-less node that can talk to multiple networks which vary only by small parameters + separate chain would be the "one thing and do it well" in my eye
 773 2014-03-22 13:19:01 <ribasushi> basically I am wondering "am I missing something" given such a thing doesn't exist
 774 2014-03-22 13:20:15 <cbeams> ribasushi: who would decide which alt networks are blessed to get into the daemon?
 775 2014-03-22 13:20:50 <ribasushi> the author of said daemon :)
 776 2014-03-22 13:21:14 <cbeams> disadvantageous to new alts, as there would be a natural tendency to be conservative as time goes on (assuming said daemon were to become well-adopted)
 777 2014-03-22 13:21:26 <ribasushi> nor having a limit seems productive - even when porncoin comes around :)
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 779 2014-03-22 13:22:28 <ribasushi> but yes, keeping in mind not shutting out new alts is sane
 780 2014-03-22 13:22:41 * ribasushi will ponder, may be an interesting exercise from a tech. pov
 781 2014-03-22 13:23:06 <ribasushi> "how hard can it be" >.>
 782 2014-03-22 13:23:29 <gmaxwell> I don't think it is at all— interesting that is, or on topic. Seeing as how this is #bitcoin-dev and not #altcoin-dev. :)
 783 2014-03-22 13:24:54 <gmaxwell> I'm glad that people are expirementing with other things, but trying to cram them all in one place is precisely the opposite of the freedom and autonomy that expirementation with different things is useful for. Doubly so because the integration would likely only be maintainable where the differences were utterly trivial— and thus maximally uninteresting.
 784 2014-03-22 13:25:43 <ribasushi> gmaxwell: aren't differences between all current altcoins (aside from ripple) precisely this - utterly trivial?
 785 2014-03-22 13:25:50 <ribasushi> (not trolling, honest question)
 786 2014-03-22 13:26:07 <gmaxwell> For the most part. (There are a few other things which aren't quite utterly trivial)
 787 2014-03-22 13:26:41 <ribasushi> gmaxwell: can you get me some insights? (pm is fine if you don't want to stray off topic too much)
 788 2014-03-22 13:27:13 <wumpus> ribasushi: "well, by this logic having a UI + rpc + wallet + p2p node in one tool is exceedingly bloated as well" <- and it is, there are serious plans to split off the wallet to a seperate project
 789 2014-03-22 13:27:25 <ribasushi> wumpus: good to hear
 790 2014-03-22 13:28:06 <gmaxwell> ribasushi: some other time, I'm tied up right now.
 791 2014-03-22 13:28:33 <ribasushi> gmaxwell: np, cheers
 792 2014-03-22 13:28:40 <wumpus> ribasushi: you can already build with --disable-wallet in 0.9
 793 2014-03-22 13:28:43 <cbeams> ribasushi, the argument here is that difficulty is beside the point. Such a design would be undesirable in any case. Akima's point that it violates the unix way is exactly right, and the practical management of such an approach would be non-ideal to say the least. Core devs would deal with many pull requests for coins they don't care about, etc.
 794 2014-03-22 13:29:40 <cbeams> It may be interesting as an exercise for your own edification, but wouldn't be a suitable direction for bitcoind itself.
 795 2014-03-22 13:29:46 <wumpus> +1 cbeams
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 797 2014-03-22 13:31:49 <wumpus> cbeams: btw re github: why do you think upgrading boost is necessary? are there really things that the current/older boost version cannot do that we need?
 798 2014-03-22 13:32:34 <cbeams> wumpus, I don't have an opinion as to whether it's necessary. Rather, that commit reflects that fact that it is already necessary. I could not compile without the change there, as described in the commit comment.
 799 2014-03-22 13:32:47 <wumpus> cbeams: requiring head is really undesirable
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 801 2014-03-22 13:32:58 <cbeams> agreed, as mentioned in the commit.
 802 2014-03-22 13:32:58 <wumpus> cbeams: I'd suggest trying to find another workaround to build with older boost, then
 803 2014-03-22 13:33:23 <wumpus> it could be as simple as a missing include file, or including some #ifdef magic incantation :p
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 806 2014-03-22 13:37:52 <cbeams> wumpus, that sounds quite reasonable, but are we clear that the build is already broken on OS X? That pull request simply reflects what was necessary for me to make `make` work. It could be that I have a misconfigured system, but given that I simply followed the original instructions to `brew install boost` (which gets you 1.55.0) and this resulted in compilation errors that are fixed by an upgrade to boost@HEAD, I'm
 807 2014-03-22 13:37:52 <cbeams>  not sure what else can be done to remedy this. It seems that someone committed the changes that cause these errors whist working against that newer rev of Boost. I could do some git bisecting to see exactly when the breakage was introduced, I suppose.
 808 2014-03-22 13:38:29 <wumpus> cbeams: builds break sometimes, that's a matter of fact, and I don't disagree on that
 809 2014-03-22 13:38:41 <wumpus> cbeams: but in this case I'd advocate for solving the issue, instead of documenting around it :)
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 811 2014-03-22 13:39:14 <omp> suppose there are two transactions, #1 and #2, in the same block, and transaction #2 references transaction #1 as an input. is it required that #2 comes after #1 in the list of transactions?
 812 2014-03-22 13:39:17 <cbeams> wumpus: thanks. Let's see what git bisect tells us.
 813 2014-03-22 13:39:27 <wumpus> in any case in linux or windows there are no problems with building current master
 814 2014-03-22 13:39:30 <wumpus> not even with ancient boost
 815 2014-03-22 13:39:41 <wumpus> I cannot test on macosx
 816 2014-03-22 13:40:31 <wumpus> omp: AFAIK yes, transactions are processed in the order that they are in a block
 817 2014-03-22 13:40:47 <cbeams> wumpus: very good to know. Tells us this is very likely indeed a mis- (or at least differently-) configured system problem, as opposed to a real breakage at the code level. Thanks.
 818 2014-03-22 13:40:51 <omp> wumpus: cool, thanks
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 821 2014-03-22 13:43:35 <jcorgan> cbeams: i'm not a macosx person, but ISTR that boost 1.5.4 on mac specifically had an issue itself that caused problems for a variety of projects.  this came up in gnuradio, for example, and required 1.5.5
 822 2014-03-22 13:44:12 <cbeams> jcorgan, I was experiencing this build failure against 1.5.5, so sounds unrelated, but thanks.
 823 2014-03-22 13:45:12 <jcorgan> i'll see if i can dig up any more details
 824 2014-03-22 13:46:32 <jcorgan> i don't know if this is at all related: http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/discuss-gnuradio/2014-03/msg00266.html
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 826 2014-03-22 13:51:51 <dexX7> i assume it's known that the op_0 at the beginning of a multisig scriptsig can be replaced with something else?
 827 2014-03-22 13:52:50 <ribasushi> cbeams: oh absolutely, I was more musing on the unavailability of alternative daemons
 828 2014-03-22 13:53:07 <ribasushi> especially given that the current implementation is... problematic to bootstrap
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 965 2014-03-22 14:55:30 <halfcab123> hello world
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 967 2014-03-22 14:58:28 <cbeams> for those interested in the Boost-related compilation issue, see https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/3936#issuecomment-38353579 which explains its resolution and why building from source is no longer necessary as of about 9 hours ago.
 968 2014-03-22 14:59:36 <halfcab123> +1
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1020 2014-03-22 16:08:22 <halfcab123> So what do you guys think about Counterparty ?
1021 2014-03-22 16:08:42 <maaku> dexX7: yes
1022 2014-03-22 16:09:05 <maaku> checkmultisig pops one too many items off the stack
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1026 2014-03-22 16:12:52 <maaku> halfcab123: off-topic
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1037 2014-03-22 16:20:02 <ahmed__> hi all
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1039 2014-03-22 16:20:17 <ahmed__> does anyone here know how i can do multi sig escrow transactions in python?
1040 2014-03-22 16:20:19 <halfcab123> hi ho
1041 2014-03-22 16:20:43 <maaku> ahmed__: what does python have to do with it?
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1043 2014-03-22 16:24:10 <ahmed__> maaku: my app is in python so thats what ill be using to communicate with bitcoind
1044 2014-03-22 16:24:28 <ahmed__> (well it doesnt have much if any to do with it but u get what i mean :P)
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1046 2014-03-22 16:26:22 <jgarzik> maaku, kind of...
1047 2014-03-22 16:27:10 <jgarzik> maaku, Presuming that halfcab123 is the same as on https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=395761.0 then it is relevant to the discussion of OP_RETURN behavior in bitcoind
1048 2014-03-22 16:27:23 <jgarzik> maaku, though I agree that a general Counterparty opinion is off-topic
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1050 2014-03-22 16:28:02 <maaku> ahmed__: use python-bitcoin{,lib} 's rpc capabilities to talk with bitcoind
1051 2014-03-22 16:29:00 <ahmed__> this one?https://github.com/jgarzik/python-bitcoinrpc
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1053 2014-03-22 16:32:07 <ahmed__> maaku: ^
1054 2014-03-22 16:32:24 <jgarzik> yes
1055 2014-03-22 16:32:51 <jgarzik> ahmed__, https://github.com/petertodd/python-bitcoinlib also has an rpc module
1056 2014-03-22 16:33:10 <jgarzik> basically the same code, but if you are going to be doing other bitcoin things, you want the bigger lib
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1058 2014-03-22 16:33:55 <ahmed__> mhmm what confuses me is how to actually go about create the multi sig transactions
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1060 2014-03-22 16:35:29 <maaku> ahmed__: you construction a version 5 (starts with 3) address
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1066 2014-03-22 16:38:07 <jgarzik> ahmed__, to send to a multisig address, you (a) collect the public keys together and sort them, (b) make a multisig address, and (c) send funds to that address.
1067 2014-03-22 16:38:26 <jgarzik> ahmed__, to spend the funds, you collect signatures from everyone involved in the transaction
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1074 2014-03-22 16:51:02 <jgarzik> On chain scanning and multisig
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1076 2014-03-22 16:51:47 <jgarzik> found a few corrupted (or invalid) CHECKMULTISIG scripts in the chain
1077 2014-03-22 16:52:13 <jgarzik> not a big deal, just fun to dig through them for curiosity's sake
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1087 2014-03-22 17:21:48 <Imbue> hmm
1088 2014-03-22 17:22:02 <Imbue> found an oddity in createrawtransaction; not sure if intended
1089 2014-03-22 17:22:33 <Imbue> i don't have it open to check right now, will do it when i have time
1090 2014-03-22 17:22:35 <Imbue> however;
1091 2014-03-22 17:22:45 <Imbue> sending amount 0 to address errors out
1092 2014-03-22 17:23:03 <Imbue> sending amount 0.0000(lots of zeroes)1 works and results in actually having a dummy output
1093 2014-03-22 17:23:05 <Imbue> is this intended?
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1095 2014-03-22 17:24:04 <petertodd> ahmed__: here's an example https://github.com/petertodd/python-bitcoinlib/blob/master/examples/spend-p2sh-txout.py
1096 2014-03-22 17:25:44 <maaku> Imbue: can you post the actual error?
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1098 2014-03-22 17:26:05 <Imbue> maaku: yes; i will do so when i get up and running
1099 2014-03-22 17:26:06 <petertodd> jgarzik: speaking of: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/3860
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1101 2014-03-22 17:26:17 <maaku> nevermind
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1103 2014-03-22 17:26:44 <maaku> the "problem" (philosophical point on if it is) is in AmountFromValue in rpcserver.cpp
1104 2014-03-22 17:27:20 <maaku> it rejects amounts <= 0.0
1105 2014-03-22 17:28:42 <jgarzik> petertodd, useful
1106 2014-03-22 17:29:33 <Imbue> maaku: yes. verified it just now. Invalid amount (code -3) for 0, but 0.0000 0000 1 (i.e. sub satoshi) produces a rawtx with amt = 0
1107 2014-03-22 17:30:00 <Imbue> whether this is actually a problem i don't know; i don't know the reasoning behind blocking amt=0
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1109 2014-03-22 17:31:53 <jgarzik> sipa, RE libsecp256k1, (a) is there a doc or Makefile.am snip or something that serves as a guide for the -minimum- source code files I would need to import into my project, to use it?  i.e. excise tests, benching, alt implementations
1110 2014-03-22 17:32:56 <jgarzik> (b) is it a complete replacement for OpenSSL EC* ?  or IOW, can libsecp256k1 + EC-stripped openssl yield a working bitcoind?
1111 2014-03-22 17:33:30 <jgarzik> The #1 picocoin request has always been "zero dependencies"
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1141 2014-03-22 18:04:02 <halfcab123> Hey @jgarzik do you have a spare moment ?
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1144 2014-03-22 18:05:04 <halfcab123> Does anyone know, why even still on 0.9.0, it takes so long to importprivkey from console ?
1145 2014-03-22 18:05:14 <halfcab123> < --- noob here btw
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1147 2014-03-22 18:05:48 <jgarzik> halfcab123, happy to answer on #bitcoin
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1151 2014-03-22 18:09:48 <Imbue> hm
1152 2014-03-22 18:10:04 <Imbue> if a cpp wizard has one second to answer a question for me, that would be appreciated.
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1155 2014-03-22 18:10:33 <Imbue> in core.cpp , CTxOutCompressor::DecompressAmount , at the end of the function 10**e is achieved using repeated multiplication rather than exponentiation
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1158 2014-03-22 18:10:57 <Imbue> why is this? clarity, or cpp doesn't have exponentiation? sorry for the potentially stupid question...
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1160 2014-03-22 18:12:30 <maaku> Imbue: C++ doesn't have exponentiation
1161 2014-03-22 18:12:41 <maaku> Imbue: well, what's the reasoning for allowing 0-valued outputs?
1162 2014-03-22 18:12:43 <Imbue> hehe. thought it would be the simple answer. thanks maaku
1163 2014-03-22 18:13:09 <Imbue> maaku: you are of course right
1164 2014-03-22 18:13:20 <Imbue> waste of space etc
1165 2014-03-22 18:13:57 <maaku> it's not a waste of space if it has a use. but what is the use?
1166 2014-03-22 18:13:59 <Imbue> it seemed to me that it could have been an 'intentional mistake' in order to allow you to create zero output without crafting the rawtx from hex.
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1169 2014-03-22 18:14:54 <Imbue> i can't think of one
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1171 2014-03-22 18:15:29 <kadoban> well, it has exponentiation (std::pow), but presumably there was a reason not to use that.  iirc it converts to floating point, which might have a lot to do with it
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1173 2014-03-22 18:15:57 <Imbue> kadoban: probably performance :)
1174 2014-03-22 18:16:18 <Imbue> i.e. best performing solution that doesn't add in FP error... amount is pretty crucial :P
1175 2014-03-22 18:17:18 <kadoban> yeah, avoiding floating point when you can is a good way to avoid some really obscure 'fun'
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1182 2014-03-22 18:20:30 <Imbue> was disconnected. kabodan: indeed :p
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1190 2014-03-22 18:23:42 <maaku> Imbue: floationg-point exponentiation is both imprecise and non-deterministically so
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1194 2014-03-22 18:24:00 <Imbue> maaku: yeah; i am aware of this
1195 2014-03-22 18:25:23 <sipa> jgarzik: i have a bitvoin branch that uses libsecp256k1 and works on ec-stripped openssl
1196 2014-03-22 18:25:55 <sipa> jgarzik: you need pretty much all src/*.h fikes + secp256k1.cpp
1197 2014-03-22 18:27:22 <sipa> eh, .c
1198 2014-03-22 18:27:27 <sipa> current
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1200 2014-03-22 18:33:38 <tiago> 779 strings and a few hours later... the PT_pt translation is now massively improved
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1202 2014-03-22 18:34:50 <jgarzik> sipa, I'm thinking in the context of picocoin (C, not C++) FWIW
1203 2014-03-22 18:34:56 <tiago> was really needing it, too. horrible mistakes like translating "change" with the wrong meaning ("to change", instead of the remaining coins)
1204 2014-03-22 18:35:17 <jgarzik> sipa, sounds straightforward
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1207 2014-03-22 18:45:26 <andytoshi> maaku: thx for responding to troy on the list, that comment of his got under my skin
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1223 2014-03-22 19:01:59 <ahmed__> jgarzik: finally back
1224 2014-03-22 19:02:20 <ahmed__> i think i understand that now. could u give me an idea of what bitcoinrpc calls are required to do such a thing?
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1226 2014-03-22 19:03:40 <gmaxwell> jgarzik: libsecp256k1 does have a GMP dependency currently, however.
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1228 2014-03-22 19:05:43 <ahmed__> if someone is willing to help out in making a multi sig transaction in a while id be glad to document it thoroughly since documentation on multi sig address generation and transactions seems to be scarce
1229 2014-03-22 19:06:30 <gmaxwell> ahmed__: http://people.xiph.org/~greg/escrowexample.txt
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1233 2014-03-22 19:09:31 <olalonde> hola chikitas
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1258 2014-03-22 19:45:15 <Luke-Jr> aschildbach: yeah, sorry, 1 sec
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1271 2014-03-22 19:56:07 <Luke-Jr> aschildbach: done
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1282 2014-03-22 20:05:57 <ahmed__> thanks gmaxwell :)
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1346 2014-03-22 21:01:06 <deego> Just asking once more, just to confirm. i'm on bitcoin 0.8.4 which apparently uses blocks/ ... Is it therefore safe to delete blk*.dat in ~/.bitcoin ?
1347 2014-03-22 21:01:43 <gmaxwell> deego: sure. though if you upgraded the blk0* stuff ended up hardlinked so the savings may be less than you were expecting.
1348 2014-03-22 21:02:45 <Luke-Jr> deego: upgrade to at least 0.8.7 :p
1349 2014-03-22 21:03:00 <Luke-Jr> 0.8.6*
1350 2014-03-22 21:03:33 <deego> Luke-Jr: ah, ok.
1351 2014-03-22 21:04:11 <deego> gmaxwell: Ah, interesting. my blk*.dat in ~/.bitcoin are 2GB each. Nothing else in subdirectories is that large. everything in blocks/ is around 2M or so
1352 2014-03-22 21:04:26 <deego> err, 128M
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1358 2014-03-22 21:06:23 <aschildbach> Luke-Jr: thanks
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1388 2014-03-22 21:41:46 <Ghaleon_> BlueMatt .... any eta on 0.9.0 PAA ?
1389 2014-03-22 21:43:25 <BlueMatt> yes...soon
1390 2014-03-22 21:43:51 <Ghaleon_> ....ok.... thank you for putting in the effort brother
1391 2014-03-22 21:44:15 <Ghaleon_> we appreciate it, thankless job I know. if I find a wallet with 200k bit coins I will send u 10k at least
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1394 2014-03-22 21:46:17 <Rawdawg-> a big thanks to the guys in here that helped me with my wallet the other day! You can see the finished product at www.dgcpoker.net
1395 2014-03-22 21:46:22 <Rawdawg-> thanks guys!
1396 2014-03-22 21:46:45 <Ghaleon_> u setup your own bitcond server rawdawg?
1397 2014-03-22 21:47:04 bahk has quit (Quit: bahk)
1398 2014-03-22 21:47:44 <Rawdawg-> it was digitalcoind, but not quite Ghaleon_, the guys in here helped me get it working so i could host the wallet on a different server but still use rpc commands between the 2
1399 2014-03-22 21:48:03 <Rawdawg-> we got it nice and secure so noone can steal any coins :P
1400 2014-03-22 21:48:32 <Rawdawg-> so like i said, thanks very much guys!
1401 2014-03-22 21:49:08 <Ghaleon_> hmm
1402 2014-03-22 21:49:18 <Ghaleon_> i'd be interested in some security tips
1403 2014-03-22 21:49:29 <Ghaleon_> locking down my unbent bitcoind right now. u on 0.9.0 ?
1404 2014-03-22 21:49:53 <Rawdawg-> no i actualy use the java one for bitcoin
1405 2014-03-22 21:50:02 <Rawdawg-> the server we setup was for digitalcoin
1406 2014-03-22 21:50:06 <Rawdawg-> i think its v1.1
1407 2014-03-22 21:50:26 <Ghaleon_> bitcoin J ?
1408 2014-03-22 21:50:49 <Rawdawg-> yea, ill find a link for you
1409 2014-03-22 21:50:51 <Rawdawg-> just a sec
1410 2014-03-22 21:51:22 <Rawdawg-> https://code.google.com/p/bitcoinj/
1411 2014-03-22 21:51:36 <Rawdawg-> there, its client only, but i dont offer any services for bitcoin at the moment
1412 2014-03-22 21:51:45 <Rawdawg-> so i havent needed to setup a bitcoind yet
1413 2014-03-22 21:52:02 coingenuity has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1414 2014-03-22 21:52:04 <Rawdawg-> but soon i will i think
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1416 2014-03-22 21:52:38 <Rawdawg-> I am thinking about taking payments for chips on www.dgcpoker.net in bitcoins then when they cash out they get digitalcoins
1417 2014-03-22 21:53:18 <Rawdawg-> idk how exactly to do it, i would probably have to do kinda what coinpayments used to do and freeze the price for 15 min or so and charge a small fee
1418 2014-03-22 21:53:39 <LarsLarsen> yes,  and if they back out they loose the deposit
1419 2014-03-22 21:53:54 <Rawdawg-> basicly yea
1420 2014-03-22 21:54:02 <Rawdawg-> the price you mean right?
1421 2014-03-22 21:54:11 <LarsLarsen> its pretty straightforward,  you just have to have long lock times
1422 2014-03-22 21:54:51 <Rawdawg-> yea, probably 15 min? is that enough?
1423 2014-03-22 21:55:01 <Rawdawg-> or 30 would be better possiblt
1424 2014-03-22 21:55:04 <Rawdawg-> possibly*
1425 2014-03-22 21:55:05 <LarsLarsen> consider how many block confirmations you want
1426 2014-03-22 21:55:12 <Rawdawg-> probably 3
1427 2014-03-22 21:55:12 <LarsLarsen> and multiply that by 10 minutes
1428 2014-03-22 21:55:15 <LarsLarsen> 30
1429 2014-03-22 21:55:17 <Rawdawg-> seems decently safe
1430 2014-03-22 21:55:27 <LarsLarsen> yes,  you wont lose much money :)
1431 2014-03-22 21:55:29 oleganza has joined
1432 2014-03-22 21:55:34 <Rawdawg-> oh and btw we are having a free tournament tonight guys
1433 2014-03-22 21:55:35 <LarsLarsen> 2 is probably the lowest you can go
1434 2014-03-22 21:55:42 <Rawdawg-> 50,000 chips in prizes
1435 2014-03-22 21:55:43 <LarsLarsen> but 3 sounds safe
1436 2014-03-22 21:55:47 <LarsLarsen> ish
1437 2014-03-22 21:55:55 <Rawdawg-> yea, 3 would be safer than just 1 or 2
1438 2014-03-22 21:55:59 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Heh, did Gavin actually do the thing me mentioned he might, creating lots of bogus keys?
1439 2014-03-22 21:56:09 <Rawdawg-> ive seen people get burned with just 1
1440 2014-03-22 21:56:18 <LarsLarsen> 1 isnt acceptable at all,  blocks get orphaned all the time
1441 2014-03-22 21:56:24 <LarsLarsen> I think 3 would be super rare
1442 2014-03-22 21:56:28 <Rawdawg-> yea
1443 2014-03-22 21:56:37 <Rawdawg-> i dont think ive seen 3 orphaned in a row
1444 2014-03-22 21:57:29 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|I count about 50 Gavins on pgp.mit.edu... o_O
1445 2014-03-22 21:57:42 <Rawdawg-> lol
1446 2014-03-22 21:57:46 <LarsLarsen> it could go up to 6 with a huge attacker,  but you should worry about random orphans
1447 2014-03-22 21:58:04 <LarsLarsen> I'd go way farther with sketchy altchains if you're doing that though
1448 2014-03-22 21:58:11 <Rawdawg-> yea random ones are more likely than someone attacking it
1449 2014-03-22 21:58:15 c0rw has joined
1450 2014-03-22 21:58:25 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Um, why did he use all the bogus keys to sign his real key? o_O
1451 2014-03-22 21:58:31 <Rawdawg-> the only altcoin i trust at this point is DGC
1452 2014-03-22 21:58:32 c0rw has quit (afk!~c0rw1n@136.92-67-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be|Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1453 2014-03-22 21:58:38 <Rawdawg-> never been successfully forked
1454 2014-03-22 21:58:57 <Rawdawg-> thats why i started the www.dgcpoker.net site, i think the coin could be pretty decent
1455 2014-03-22 21:59:04 <LarsLarsen> they just hard forked the code I heard
1456 2014-03-22 21:59:16 <Rawdawg-> yea, just for updates
1457 2014-03-22 21:59:22 <toffoo> hi, I just encrypted a bitcoin-qt wallet that has been unencrypted for a long time .. at the very end of the process a message popped up that warned something like "any existing backups of old unencrypted wallets will no longer work".  can someone explain to me exactly how this is the case?
1458 2014-03-22 21:59:28 <LarsLarsen> a big update!  changing payout!  thats immutable!
1459 2014-03-22 21:59:30 <Rawdawg-> they did a hard fork couple months back to fix the multipools problem
1460 2014-03-22 21:59:32 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|toffoo: The keypool is cleared
1461 2014-03-22 21:59:37 JWU42 is now known as JWU42_55
1462 2014-03-22 21:59:53 <LarsLarsen> I understand
1463 2014-03-22 21:59:56 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|So any keys generated from the moment you encrypt won't be in older backups
1464 2014-03-22 22:00:10 JWU42_55 is now known as JWU42
1465 2014-03-22 22:00:19 <Rawdawg-> digitalcoins are cheap right now too, 0.04$ atm
1466 2014-03-22 22:00:26 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|;;later tell gavinandresen* Hey, did you actually do what you mentioned you might and make ~100 bogus keys with your name? Also, I'm surprised to see that those keys all signed your real one.
1467 2014-03-22 22:00:27 <gribble> The operation succeeded.
1468 2014-03-22 22:00:32 <toffoo> michagogo|cloud but wouldn't old unencrypted wallets still have the valid private keys for the old used addresses?
1469 2014-03-22 22:00:36 <Rawdawg-> so imo buying a couple thousand woth couldnt hurt
1470 2014-03-22 22:00:59 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|toffoo: Yes, but when you next generate a key, that key won't be in the old backup
1471 2014-03-22 22:01:09 <LarsLarsen> rawdawg-: look at https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Atomic_cross-chain_trading
1472 2014-03-22 22:01:12 <toffoo> ok that makes sense, thanks
1473 2014-03-22 22:01:32 JWU42 is now known as E_JWU42_
1474 2014-03-22 22:01:34 <LarsLarsen> rawdawg: the algorithm,  with timeouts,  is all there
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1478 2014-03-22 22:02:45 <Rawdawg-> thanks LarsLarsen
1479 2014-03-22 22:03:19 <Rawdawg-> if you want to come play poker with us tonight let me know LarsLarsen, once the tourney is all done ill give you 1000 chips for free :P
1480 2014-03-22 22:03:44 <LarsLarsen> rawdawg-: you have a centralized server of funds,  so you dont really need this.... but it will help your thinking
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1482 2014-03-22 22:04:05 <Rawdawg-> yea it will for sure, and any new thing i can learn makes me happier
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1484 2014-03-22 22:04:17 <LarsLarsen> rawdawg-: I appreciate the offer,  but I'm terrible at poker :)
1485 2014-03-22 22:04:35 <Rawdawg-> haha, well worst case scenario you meet some new ppl :P
1486 2014-03-22 22:04:44 <Rawdawg-> and get some free DGC :P
1487 2014-03-22 22:05:08 <LarsLarsen> lol,  dont shill here,  take it to #bitcoin :P
1488 2014-03-22 22:05:27 <Rawdawg-> haha
1489 2014-03-22 22:05:39 <Rawdawg-> but thank you very much for the help!
1490 2014-03-22 22:05:44 <Rawdawg-> its much appreciated
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1492 2014-03-22 22:05:57 <LarsLarsen> please always come ask for help with things that involve security,  you shouldnt do it yourself
1493 2014-03-22 22:06:02 bd_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1494 2014-03-22 22:06:22 <Rawdawg-> i agree completely, money is one thing you shouldnt do trial and error on
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1496 2014-03-22 22:06:34 <LarsLarsen> esp other peoples money
1497 2014-03-22 22:06:35 MolokoBot is now known as MolokoDesk
1498 2014-03-22 22:06:41 <LarsLarsen> they get touchy about that
1499 2014-03-22 22:06:42 <Rawdawg-> exactly
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1501 2014-03-22 22:07:05 <LarsLarsen> luckily,  that algo seems solid and you should be fine
1502 2014-03-22 22:07:05 <Rawdawg-> and i am an ex stock broker lol, so i know about the value of securing peoples money
1503 2014-03-22 22:07:22 <LarsLarsen> lol yeah,  or flagrantly risking it :)
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1505 2014-03-22 22:07:40 <Rawdawg-> exactly haha
1506 2014-03-22 22:07:51 <Rawdawg-> luckily i had nothing to do with the subprime market
1507 2014-03-22 22:07:57 <LarsLarsen> I believe you
1508 2014-03-22 22:08:21 <Rawdawg-> almost worse tho lol, i was involved with penny stocks
1509 2014-03-22 22:08:47 <Rawdawg-> but not for the retail market, i only traded for high risk guys that knew the risk they were taking
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1511 2014-03-22 22:09:22 <LarsLarsen> My advice is to stay away from all altcoins,  they are mostly scams from what I can tell,  I dont really gamble/speculate
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1513 2014-03-22 22:09:35 <LarsLarsen> you should go to #bitcoin-otc to talk about trading
1514 2014-03-22 22:12:45 <Rawdawg-> yea i think i will
1515 2014-03-22 22:13:00 <Rawdawg-> gotta admin the poker tourney first :P
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1539 2014-03-22 22:33:41 <petertodd> michagogo|cloud: hilarious - at some point the keyservers are going to need to do hashcash/bitcoin sacrifices for spam control
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1615 2014-03-22 23:46:22 <jgarzik> Usage: txmod [OPTION...] HEX-ENCODED-TX
1616 2014-03-22 23:46:22 <jgarzik> txmod - command line interface to modify bitcoin transactions
1617 2014-03-22 23:46:22 <jgarzik>       --blank                Start new, blank transaction. Do not read any
1618 2014-03-22 23:46:22 <jgarzik>                              input data.
1619 2014-03-22 23:46:22 <jgarzik>       --locktime=LOCKTIME    Set transaction lock time
1620 2014-03-22 23:46:23 <jgarzik>       --nversion=VERSION     Set transaction version
1621 2014-03-22 23:46:25 <jgarzik>       --txin=TXID:VOUT       Append a transaction input
1622 2014-03-22 23:46:33 Zarutian has joined
1623 2014-03-22 23:46:46 * jgarzik has fun on a Saturday night: writing a C command line util that behaves somewhat like the raw TX API
1624 2014-03-22 23:47:08 <jgarzik> input on cli, output to stdout
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1633 2014-03-22 23:54:54 hanti is now known as HANTI
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