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   7 2014-03-24 00:07:45 <zone117x> hey guys - I know this is off topic but is there any channel with altcoin dev discussion?
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   9 2014-03-24 00:07:59 <zone117x> I'd like to be able to detect if a coin support transaction messages.
  10 2014-03-24 00:08:28 <zone117x> actually - this is kinda related to bitcoin. does anyone here know of a RPC call that will reveal whether transaction messages is supported?
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  14 2014-03-24 00:13:01 <Luke-Jr> zone117x: there is no such thing as transaction messages
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  18 2014-03-24 00:14:20 <dexX7> https://blockchain.info/tx/62c70bd98ef4e4cf5027b0dcfeccc522db296365c54ff3e1d8039900d303e784 what's wrong here with the input script? ;)
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  21 2014-03-24 00:15:15 <amstertran> what does the syntax look like for specifying a custom scriptPubKey ?
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  23 2014-03-24 00:18:27 <Luke-Jr> dexX7: is that mastercoin?
  24 2014-03-24 00:18:36 <Luke-Jr> amstertran: uh, context?
  25 2014-03-24 00:19:09 <dexX7> no, that's replacing the op_0 with data within a multisig tx
  26 2014-03-24 00:19:31 <amstertran> any custom scriptpubkey. how can i just change the opcodes?
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  32 2014-03-24 00:23:15 <dexX7> "Due to a bug, one extra unused value is removed from the stack."
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  41 2014-03-24 00:40:00 <maaku> amstertran: what syntax? there is no json-rpc commands that allow you to specify the script directly
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  44 2014-03-24 00:40:50 <amstertran> so i can't call createrawtransaction and specify scriptpubkey somwhere with a set of opcodes?
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  49 2014-03-24 00:41:45 <amstertran> i thought .9 even allows you to do this with op_return now
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  51 2014-03-24 00:42:09 <maaku> amstertran: no, and please don't use op_return!
  52 2014-03-24 00:42:15 <maaku> you can construct the transaction manually
  53 2014-03-24 00:42:35 <amstertran> im not lol, but i thought you could specify your own opcodes
  54 2014-03-24 00:42:40 <amstertran> is that wrong?
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  56 2014-03-24 00:42:56 <petertodd> amstertran: it is, you might find this helpful: https://github.com/petertodd/python-bitcoinlib
  57 2014-03-24 00:43:11 <amstertran> ya i've been messing around with it
  58 2014-03-24 00:43:20 <maaku> amstertran: no, they just take addresses as input
  59 2014-03-24 00:43:23 <amstertran> but i had an issue serializing json
  60 2014-03-24 00:43:32 <maaku> you'd have to construct the transaction yourself
  61 2014-03-24 00:43:49 <maaku> why serialize json? you need hex
  62 2014-03-24 00:43:57 <petertodd> amstertran: serializing json? that should be all done for you by the bitcoin.rpc module
  63 2014-03-24 00:44:22 <amstertran> i think the serialize call takes json and spits out hex
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  65 2014-03-24 00:44:38 <amstertran> the deserialize function takes hex and spits out json
  66 2014-03-24 00:44:46 <petertodd> amstertran: you mean CTransaction.serialize()? that spits out bytes
  67 2014-03-24 00:44:48 <amstertran> that worked fine for me. but the other way broke
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  70 2014-03-24 00:45:16 <petertodd> amstertran: you atually don't need to serialize at all - you can just use proxy.sendrawtransaction(tx), where proxy = bitcoin.rpc.Proxy()
  71 2014-03-24 00:45:22 <amstertran> oh crap. this isn't bitcoin pytools
  72 2014-03-24 00:45:36 <petertodd> amstertran: lol, yeah, I mean python-bitcoinlib specifically
  73 2014-03-24 00:45:40 <petertodd> amstertran: dunno about other libraries
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  76 2014-03-24 00:46:36 <amstertran> ok so then did i misunderstand what i kept reading about with .9 and op return?
  77 2014-03-24 00:46:59 <amstertran> createraw doesn't actually do it for you?
  78 2014-03-24 00:47:11 <maaku> amstertran: do what?
  79 2014-03-24 00:47:16 <petertodd> amstertran: correct, createrawtransaction is a very specific tool that can only take addresses
  80 2014-03-24 00:47:21 <petertodd> amstertran: you need something more low level than that
  81 2014-03-24 00:47:27 <amstertran> allow you to specify op_return and then create a valid transaction
  82 2014-03-24 00:48:06 <amstertran> ok so if i want to specify my own op codes i have to edit the json my self
  83 2014-03-24 00:48:18 <petertodd> amstertran: no, not the json
  84 2014-03-24 00:48:36 <petertodd> amstertran: there's no way in the RPC code to go from json -> a transaction
  85 2014-03-24 00:48:56 <maaku> no json involved. use your favorite python lib to create the transaction and serialize as *bytes*
  86 2014-03-24 00:49:17 <petertodd> amstertran: my advice is that you look at examples/spend-pay-to-script-hash-txout.py in python-bitcoinlib
  87 2014-03-24 00:49:17 <maaku> then pass those (hex encoded) bytes to signrawtransaction / sendrawtransaction
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  89 2014-03-24 00:50:06 <petertodd> amstertran: or also, my dust-b-gone utility uses op_return: https://github.com/petertodd/dust-b-gone
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  91 2014-03-24 00:53:26 <amstertran> ok thanks. i'll take a look at the libs
  92 2014-03-24 00:53:28 <dexX7> amstertran: if it's about creating op_return transactions this could help https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=453086.msg5302717#msg5302717
  93 2014-03-24 00:54:45 <petertodd> dexX7: lol! yeah, I used to be good at hand-editing tx's in hex, but then I fixed up python-bitcoinlib :P
  94 2014-03-24 00:56:33 <amstertran> dexX7: iteresting
  95 2014-03-24 00:56:41 <amstertran> interesting*
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  98 2014-03-24 00:58:13 <Guest5337> hello
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 100 2014-03-24 00:59:59 <dexX7> hehe ty petertodd, using this tool probably saves a lot of time :)
 101 2014-03-24 01:01:33 <petertodd> dexX7: thanks! still lots left to do, but I'm especially happy with how easy low-level tx creation is with it
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 126 2014-03-24 01:33:56 <Neozonz> Disc!~Neozonz@unaffiliated/neozonz|is there anyway to match a txid/address against rpc listtransactions?
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 161 2014-03-24 02:12:53 <zveda> hi
 162 2014-03-24 02:13:07 <zveda> when running bitcoin-qt with trickle -u30 I get this error:
 163 2014-03-24 02:13:08 <zveda> bitcoin-qt: net.cpp:721: void SocketSendData(CNode*): Assertion `data.size() > pnode->nSendOffset' failed.
 164 2014-03-24 02:13:09 <zveda> Aborted
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 175 2014-03-24 02:33:05 <Luke-Jr> zveda: what is "trickle -u30"?
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 177 2014-03-24 02:37:32 <zveda> thats a badnwidth limiting program in linux
 178 2014-03-24 02:37:38 <zveda> limit upload speed to 30 Kb/s
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 180 2014-03-24 02:38:33 <zveda> Luke-Jr: I saw in some old posts on bitcointalk people recommending its use with bitcoin-qt
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 182 2014-03-24 02:40:10 <zveda> even if I turn off the uPnP option, bitcoin-qt is maxing out my upload speed
 183 2014-03-24 02:40:31 <Apocalyptic> uPnP has nothing to do with upload speed
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 185 2014-03-24 02:41:31 <xdotcommer> "do not shut down the computer until this window dissapears"
 186 2014-03-24 02:42:30 <xdotcommer> been stuck for 30 min
 187 2014-03-24 02:42:39 <xdotcommer> mac os
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 191 2014-03-24 02:46:33 <zveda> Apocalyptic: but I only have 8 connections if I turn off upnp
 192 2014-03-24 02:47:02 <Apocalyptic> zveda, that's because of your firewall
 193 2014-03-24 02:47:22 <Apocalyptic> uPnP enables it to open the ports for incoming connections
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 196 2014-03-24 02:47:46 <kaptah> and thus allows more peers -> more bandwith usage
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 202 2014-03-24 02:50:51 <Luke-Jr> kaptah: not really
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 204 2014-03-24 02:51:05 <Luke-Jr> 1 peer is enough to max out bandwidth usage, just depends on *who* your peers are
 205 2014-03-24 02:51:15 <Apocalyptic> ^
 206 2014-03-24 02:51:38 <Luke-Jr> trickle sounds like a good idea, not sure why we break with it
 207 2014-03-24 02:51:57 <zveda> even my voip won't work when bitcoin-qt is running :(
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 209 2014-03-24 02:52:33 <uiop> xdotcommer: "sudo halt" will sort you out (or just hold down power button)
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 211 2014-03-24 02:53:00 <Luke-Jr> zveda: decent routers will let you set QoS
 212 2014-03-24 02:53:03 <uiop> xdotcommer: any more than a few minutes means it will likely never complete
 213 2014-03-24 02:53:18 <Luke-Jr> QoS > speed limiting
 214 2014-03-24 02:53:18 <uiop> xdotcommer: unless you have special knowledge that it will
 215 2014-03-24 02:53:21 <kaptah> Luke-Jr: yes. but over time there seems to be correlation with more peers and constant higher bandwith usage :)
 216 2014-03-24 02:53:25 <Apocalyptic> that's what you get for using mac
 217 2014-03-24 02:53:35 <Luke-Jr> kaptah: higher bandwidth use is not a problem anyway
 218 2014-03-24 02:53:47 <Luke-Jr> unless your ISP charges you per GB
 219 2014-03-24 02:54:07 <uiop> xdotcommer: (i'm talking in general, i don't know what particular prog is deadlocked on your box)
 220 2014-03-24 02:54:25 <zveda> Luke-Jr: ok will look into it thx
 221 2014-03-24 02:54:42 <Ghaleon> how does one set the mining fee in bitcoinD  ? can u set a default in the conf? can you set the mining fee for each transaction in 0.9.0 ?
 222 2014-03-24 02:55:04 <zveda> kinda annoying tho. I only DL at 15 Kb/s but upload is maxed at 110 Kb/s
 223 2014-03-24 02:55:10 <sipa> Ghaleon: for creation, relaying or mining?
 224 2014-03-24 02:55:26 <sipa> zveda: disable incoming connections
 225 2014-03-24 02:55:36 <Ghaleon> for sending folks bit coin from your bitcoind... so relaying i guess
 226 2014-03-24 02:55:44 <zveda> sipa: how to do that?
 227 2014-03-24 02:55:48 <Ghaleon> or do you mean transaction creation?
 228 2014-03-24 02:55:52 <sipa> Ghaleon: that's creation
 229 2014-03-24 02:56:00 <sipa> zveda: -nolisten
 230 2014-03-24 02:56:10 <Ghaleon> ok, for creation please
 231 2014-03-24 02:56:20 <zveda> sipa: thx
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 233 2014-03-24 02:57:37 <zveda> wth. even with -nolisten upload still maxed
 234 2014-03-24 02:57:51 <zveda> o wait nvm
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 236 2014-03-24 02:59:24 <sipa> Ghaleon: start with -help; there is a settimg for that
 237 2014-03-24 03:00:07 <sipa> Ghaleon: note that the default is 0 per kilobyte, but bitcoind will not allow creation of transactions that it would not relay itself
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 244 2014-03-24 03:05:00 <Ghaleon> yes thank you... is it possible to send 0.0001 BTC without any fee's ?
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 247 2014-03-24 03:05:41 <sipa> depends
 248 2014-03-24 03:05:46 <xdotcommer> uiop: thanks
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 250 2014-03-24 03:06:02 <sipa> Ghaleon: depends on the size and age of the coins used
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 319 2014-03-24 04:14:03 <sipa> phantomcircuit: i have a branch that replaces all openssl ec crypto with libsecp256k1
 320 2014-03-24 04:14:08 <phantomcircuit> sipa, is the serialization stuff for CPrivKey in key.h?
 321 2014-03-24 04:14:11 <jgarzik> the annoying thing about dropping openssl (or any crypto lib) is that a bignum implementation remains a requirement, of script and ecdsa both
 322 2014-03-24 04:14:13 <jgarzik> drop that, but still need gmp or whatnot
 323 2014-03-24 04:14:22 <sipa> yeah
 324 2014-03-24 04:14:38 <sipa> script can do withoit bignum
 325 2014-03-24 04:14:40 <sipa> easily
 326 2014-03-24 04:14:52 <sipa> but ec math and difficulty computations cant
 327 2014-03-24 04:14:56 <phantomcircuit> typedef std::vector<unsigned char, secure_allocator<unsigned char> > CPrivKey;
 328 2014-03-24 04:14:57 <jgarzik> really?  I could have sworn there was a hard requirement buried somewhere.
 329 2014-03-24 04:15:04 * jgarzik reviews
 330 2014-03-24 04:15:08 <phantomcircuit> wat
 331 2014-03-24 04:15:14 <phantomcircuit> how could that possibly be so slow
 332 2014-03-24 04:15:15 <sipa> jgarzik: it only does 32-bit arithmetic anymore
 333 2014-03-24 04:15:33 <sipa> phantomcircuit: that makes no sense
 334 2014-03-24 04:15:51 * phantomcircuit double checks performance counters
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 336 2014-03-24 04:17:20 <phantomcircuit> i'll make this more granular
 337 2014-03-24 04:18:01 <jgarzik> sipa, OP_ADD, OP_1ADD etc. appear to support it in theory?
 338 2014-03-24 04:18:47 <jgarzik> sipa, they appear to be value neutral, and perform operations purely in bignum
 339 2014-03-24 04:18:55 <jgarzik> value-size-neutral
 340 2014-03-24 04:19:02 <phantomcircuit> blargh why cant performance tools operate on a line of code basis
 341 2014-03-24 04:19:03 <phantomcircuit> :/
 342 2014-03-24 04:19:22 <sipa> jgarzik: arithmetic operators do not on >4 byte values
 343 2014-03-24 04:19:35 <sipa> *operate
 344 2014-03-24 04:20:13 <jgarzik> sipa, where is that enforced/implied?
 345 2014-03-24 04:20:23 <sipa> can't remember
 346 2014-03-24 04:21:03 <sipa> jgarzik: CastToBignum
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 348 2014-03-24 04:21:55 <phantomcircuit> sipa, i stand corrected
 349 2014-03-24 04:22:00 <phantomcircuit> it's the CKey constructor
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 351 2014-03-24 04:22:25 <sipa> phantomcircuit: oh lol
 352 2014-03-24 04:22:35 <phantomcircuit> i had them in the same block
 353 2014-03-24 04:22:50 <phantomcircuit> i assumed incorrectly they wouldn't matter...
 354 2014-03-24 04:22:59 <jgarzik> sipa, hah!  I implemented that code twice, but do not recall ever knowing that fact.
 355 2014-03-24 04:23:21 <phantomcircuit> sipa,     // Construct an invalid private key.
 356 2014-03-24 04:23:21 <phantomcircuit>     CKey() : fValid(false) {
 357 2014-03-24 04:23:21 <phantomcircuit>         LockObject(vch);
 358 2014-03-24 04:23:21 <phantomcircuit>     }
 359 2014-03-24 04:23:25 <phantomcircuit> wat
 360 2014-03-24 04:23:45 <sipa> jgarzik: another reasoin why reimplementing consensus critical code is a bad idea :)
 361 2014-03-24 04:24:10 <sipa> phantomcircuit: LockObject prevents it from being swapped out
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 364 2014-03-24 04:24:30 <phantomcircuit> sipa, it calls mlock or whatever?
 365 2014-03-24 04:24:35 <sipa> yes
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 370 2014-03-24 04:25:36 <jgarzik> sipa, interesting that CastToBigNum() does not exist in v0.1.5
 371 2014-03-24 04:25:58 <sipa> jgarzik: that 32-bit arith restriction was added later
 372 2014-03-24 04:26:14 <sipa> dos protection, i guess
 373 2014-03-24 04:26:17 yubrew has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
 374 2014-03-24 04:26:27 <sipa> together with disabling some more expensive operators
 375 2014-03-24 04:26:40 <phantomcircuit> sipa, CKey key nsec=47780176
 376 2014-03-24 04:26:49 <sipa> cool
 377 2014-03-24 04:27:00 <phantomcircuit> 0.47780176 ms per CKey constructor
 378 2014-03-24 04:27:04 <phantomcircuit> that seems a big much
 379 2014-03-24 04:27:17 <phantomcircuit> i wonder if the boost::call_once implementation is horribly broken or something
 380 2014-03-24 04:27:28 <sipa> eh?
 381 2014-03-24 04:27:33 <sipa> where is that used
 382 2014-03-24 04:27:49 <phantomcircuit> sipa, LockOject in allocators.h
 383 2014-03-24 04:27:54 <sipa> also, 47M nsec = 47ms
 384 2014-03-24 04:28:08 <phantomcircuit> sipa, it's per 100 iterations :P
 385 2014-03-24 04:28:15 <sipa> ok
 386 2014-03-24 04:28:19 <sipa> oof
 387 2014-03-24 04:28:50 <jgarzik> CastToBigNum() is in 0.3.24.  Too lazy to bisect further.  "added by satoshi in early days"
 388 2014-03-24 04:29:03 <sipa> i don't really care about private key performance
 389 2014-03-24 04:29:13 <sipa> you only need it for signing anyway
 390 2014-03-24 04:29:39 <sipa> and if you don't want to load them in memory all at once on startup you need encryption anyway
 391 2014-03-24 04:30:06 airq has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 392 2014-03-24 04:30:39 <sipa> jgarzik: yeah, at this point, arithmetic is essentially restricted to 32-bit inputs
 393 2014-03-24 04:30:43 <jgarzik> It would be interesting to rip out CBigNum() from script then :)
 394 2014-03-24 04:30:50 <sipa> absolutrly
 395 2014-03-24 04:31:00 <sipa> i've wanted to do so for a long time
 396 2014-03-24 04:31:18 <sipa> note: you can have >32 bit outputs
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 398 2014-03-24 04:31:59 * sipa hates biological clocks
 399 2014-03-24 04:32:20 <sipa> it's 5:30am, been awake for a few hours now
 400 2014-03-24 04:32:27 <jgarzik> sipa, seems to nicely fit within a 64-bit integer, which is far better than a bignum
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 402 2014-03-24 04:32:48 <sipa> jgarzik: does OP_MUL still exist?
 403 2014-03-24 04:33:25 <jgarzik> sipa, no
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 405 2014-03-24 04:34:12 <sipa> good
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 407 2014-03-24 04:34:31 <sipa> yeah, int64 can perfwectly replace cbignum
 408 2014-03-24 04:34:51 <sipa> it has some weird encoding though (explicit sign bit!)
 409 2014-03-24 04:35:16 StSeek has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 410 2014-03-24 04:35:27 <sipa> 0x80000001 = -1
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 415 2014-03-24 04:38:58 <petertodd> sipa: what's the issue with OP_MUL? (I mean, is we decide to bring it back, how should it be designed?)
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 419 2014-03-24 04:39:57 <sipa> petertodd: oh, i know of no use case for it; perhaps a restricted version can be in a script 2.0
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 421 2014-03-24 04:40:29 <sipa> petertodd: the reason i bring it up is because it might push us over other 32-bit arithmertic restrictions
 422 2014-03-24 04:40:53 <petertodd> sipa: seems the most likely use-cases would be relatively small integers; i suspect overflow would be the most likely source of consensus bugs
 423 2014-03-24 04:41:18 <sipa> well, roght now opmul just does not exist
 424 2014-03-24 04:41:18 wyager has joined
 425 2014-03-24 04:41:39 <sipa> if we bring it back, it can be very well defijed (and i agree, limited in size)
 426 2014-03-24 04:41:45 <petertodd> sipa: yup
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 428 2014-03-24 04:42:36 <jgarzik> sipa, seems like the problem wants a ScriptBigNum, which is wraps int64_t with all the encoding helper
 429 2014-03-24 04:42:41 <jgarzik> *which wraps
 430 2014-03-24 04:42:50 <jgarzik> *helpers.  Gah, should sleep.
 431 2014-03-24 04:43:54 <phantomcircuit> sipa, something tells me this page locking memory manage is not exactly performance sensitive
 432 2014-03-24 04:44:15 <phantomcircuit> or rather it is but it is slow
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 439 2014-03-24 04:55:24 <sipa> phantomcircuit: if we need it for somethimg performance critical, somethimg is wrong :)
 440 2014-03-24 05:00:43 <Luke-Jr> draft 0.8.7rc1 release notes http://codepad.org/imXcdbYn (commit list: http://codepad.org/5WdDVKbz )
 441 2014-03-24 05:01:27 eoss has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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 443 2014-03-24 05:01:44 <jgarzik> sipa, heh, sorely tempted to make this code endian-neutral at the same time
 444 2014-03-24 05:02:27 melvster has joined
 445 2014-03-24 05:02:29 * jgarzik wants to one day build bitcoind on big endian and have it Just Work
 446 2014-03-24 05:02:36 aynstein has joined
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 448 2014-03-24 05:03:02 <phantomcircuit> does anybody know if --enable-debug enabled gprof?
 449 2014-03-24 05:03:08 <phantomcircuit> im guessing no
 450 2014-03-24 05:04:47 Aido has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
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 452 2014-03-24 05:06:35 <sipa> jgarzik: yes, please!
 453 2014-03-24 05:07:00 <sipa> jgarzik: though there is architecture dependency all over the place
 454 2014-03-24 05:07:10 <jgarzik> sipa, yes
 455 2014-03-24 05:07:10 Eiii has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
 456 2014-03-24 05:07:16 <phantomcircuit> hah tried to run bitcoin-qt in valgrind with callgraph tool
 457 2014-03-24 05:07:18 <jgarzik> sipa, one step at a time...
 458 2014-03-24 05:07:24 <phantomcircuit> ten years later...
 459 2014-03-24 05:07:26 <jgarzik> sipa, serialization, networking, ...
 460 2014-03-24 05:07:39 <sipa> jgarzik: minimg
 461 2014-03-24 05:09:04 <phantomcircuit> oh god the mining protocols
 462 2014-03-24 05:09:17 <phantomcircuit> why the fuck is the prev block hash in midstate format in strtum
 463 2014-03-24 05:09:19 <phantomcircuit> WHY
 464 2014-03-24 05:10:16 <phantomcircuit> sipa, still loading leveldb
 465 2014-03-24 05:10:17 <phantomcircuit> :(
 466 2014-03-24 05:11:33 Burrito has quit (Quit: Leaving)
 467 2014-03-24 05:12:01 <sipa> ha:
 468 2014-03-24 05:12:03 <sipa> 06:06:02 < jgarzik> sipa, one step at a time...
 469 2014-03-24 05:12:04 <sipa> 06:06:08 < phantomcircuit> ten years later...
 470 2014-03-24 05:12:56 Tiraspol has joined
 471 2014-03-24 05:13:00 <jgarzik> phantomcircuit, because stupid is enshrined by popularity, then copied
 472 2014-03-24 05:14:08 Coincidental has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 473 2014-03-24 05:14:59 <phantomcircuit> jgarzik, :(
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 481 2014-03-24 05:25:10 <phantomcircuit> hmm
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 514 2014-03-24 06:04:49 <phantomcircuit> this is much better
 515 2014-03-24 06:04:52 <phantomcircuit> cpu perf counters
 516 2014-03-24 06:04:53 <phantomcircuit> <3
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 518 2014-03-24 06:17:45 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Luke-Jr: hm, does 0.8.7 still use wine in the dependency build process?
 519 2014-03-24 06:18:01 agricocb has joined
 520 2014-03-24 06:18:01 <Luke-Jr> michagogo|cloud: if 0.8.6 did
 521 2014-03-24 06:18:26 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Luke-Jr: I don't remember :-/
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 523 2014-03-24 06:19:09 <Luke-Jr> michagogo|cloud: I see wine in the gitian deps, but I don't see anything actually using it O.o
 524 2014-03-24 06:19:41 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Luke-Jr: I don't remember exactly whatit was
 525 2014-03-24 06:20:07 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|There was something that was replaced by, er, maybe a few `sed`s or something?
 526 2014-03-24 06:20:32 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Something having to do with UPNP maybe? It's been a whole
 527 2014-03-24 06:20:35 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|While*
 528 2014-03-24 06:20:37 <Luke-Jr> michagogo|cloud: miniupnpc, to generate OS info..
 529 2014-03-24 06:20:44 <Luke-Jr> it was totally stupid
 530 2014-03-24 06:20:53 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|The annoying thing is that lxc can't build that
 531 2014-03-24 06:20:57 <Luke-Jr> O.o
 532 2014-03-24 06:21:15 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Because it's a kernel something-or-other
 533 2014-03-24 06:21:24 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|And lxc doesn't have it's own
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 548 2014-03-24 06:40:46 <phantomcircuit> sipa, hmm right i remember this
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 550 2014-03-24 06:41:08 <phantomcircuit> the better solution is to create a new "key" type that stores the raw byte array
 551 2014-03-24 06:41:18 <phantomcircuit> but that sounded like actual work so i didn't do it
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 571 2014-03-24 07:09:58 <Luke-Jr> michagogo|cloud: WINE doesn't do anything special at the kernel
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 636 2014-03-24 07:29:47 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Luke-Jr: hm, I found the change at https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/3042/files
 637 2014-03-24 07:30:13 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|I don't know where the discussion and troubleshooting that lead to that was
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 648 2014-03-24 07:39:11 <phantomcircuit> sipa, ha... this is calling mlock thousands of times in a tight loop
 649 2014-03-24 07:39:13 <dexX7> i was wondering about the ratio of all multisig outputs related to xcp and msc -> http://i.imgur.com/bBSYBwh.png data is about one hour old
 650 2014-03-24 07:40:18 <phantomcircuit> dexX7, lol that is hilarious
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 652 2014-03-24 07:41:46 <dexX7> the more interesting question now is: what are those 99 %+ other multisig outputs used for? if you have any idea how to evaluate this please tell
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 661 2014-03-24 07:51:51 <phantomcircuit> sipa, 10k keys -> 50k calls to LockedPageManagerBase::LockRange, 20k calls to MemoryPageLocker::Lock -> 20k calls to mlock
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 676 2014-03-24 08:20:51 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Luke-Jr: I just looked up the logs from September
 677 2014-03-24 08:22:46 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Luke-Jr: Wine wouldn't install or work or something in lxc, because it requires binfmt-support, which couldn't install because it uses a kernel module
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 685 2014-03-24 08:29:20 <jouke> michagogo|cloud: I am struggling with the gitian howto, I am unsure what the choices are and when it is just a next step
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 688 2014-03-24 08:33:08 <jouke> michagogo|cloud: so I made two base-vms, but the next step is "setup". I don't know what to do to manualy create those steps.
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 690 2014-03-24 08:34:35 <Luke-Jr> michagogo|cloud: aha, lol.
 691 2014-03-24 08:34:48 <Luke-Jr> michagogo|cloud: anyhow, the WINE approach produced totally wrong information XD
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 696 2014-03-24 08:42:33 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|jouke: when you say "the gitian howto",
 697 2014-03-24 08:42:43 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Which document exactly do you mean?
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 702 2014-03-24 08:48:10 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|jouke: do you mean https://github.com/devrandom/gitian-builder/blob/master/README.md?
 703 2014-03-24 08:48:23 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Setup there is a sub-heading of virtualbox
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 705 2014-03-24 08:49:10 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|After the make-base-vm steps (and exporting the variable if you're using lxc), go to the sanity testing stage
 706 2014-03-24 08:49:30 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|If the sanity test passes, move on to https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/master/doc/release-process.md
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 718 2014-03-24 09:09:50 <fanquake> ;;blocks
 719 2014-03-24 09:09:50 <gribble> 292194
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 727 2014-03-24 09:28:15 <AmThatsMe> hi everyone !
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 729 2014-03-24 09:30:24 <AmThatsMe> did anyone encountered a problem when running listtransactions.py tests (without the cache directory previously created) that after initialisation it cannot start the tests because the bitcoind daemon has not yet shutdown ?
 730 2014-03-24 09:30:33 <AmThatsMe> "Unable to bind to 0.0.0.0:11000 on this computer. Bitcoin Core Daemon is probably already running."
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 734 2014-03-24 09:34:33 <wumpus> AmThatsMe: yes, can you test with https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/3863 ?
 735 2014-03-24 09:34:54 <wumpus> it has a change to avoid bitcoind shutdown being stuck on open RPC connections
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 739 2014-03-24 09:38:58 <AmThatsMe> wumpus: thanks ! i will use gavin's fix
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 742 2014-03-24 09:45:56 <wumpus> AmThatsMe: please ACK it if it works :)
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 768 2014-03-24 10:17:54 <AmThatsMe> wumpus: sure, no problem :)
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 770 2014-03-24 10:28:36 <runeks> sipa: Just came across this blog post about implementing an ECDSA signature system that is impervious to timing attacks: http://blog.cr.yp.to/20140323-ecdsa.html I remember you talking about doing this was the hard part about writing the secp256k1 library, so I thought you might find the article interesting.
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 779 2014-03-24 10:36:23 <sipa> phantomcircuit: if you are loading thousands of keys in a tight loop, then yes, you'll needs thousands of mlocks... use an encrypted wallet if you don't want that
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 806 2014-03-24 10:53:15 <sipa> phantomcircuit: so don't load 10k keys :)
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 827 2014-03-24 11:14:22 <wumpus> phantomcircuit: yes the current setup is not ideal, it would be  better to use an 'mlocked pool' instead of locking pages returned from the OS allocator, overall locked memory usage would likely also go down by tighter packing
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 834 2014-03-24 11:17:43 <wumpus> phantomcircuit: but back in the day I looked at that, none of the immediately available pool implementations (such as boost pool) were aquedate as they assume fixed-size objects (and we need <char> arrays for SecureString), and I didn't feel good about using a hand-rolled memory allocation solution
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 868 2014-03-24 11:52:43 <sipa> wumpus: IF the only thing being mlocked is private keys, they could be turned into static objects?
 869 2014-03-24 11:52:57 <sipa> without own dynamic allocation, i mean
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 894 2014-03-24 12:14:47 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|;;later tell BlueMatt Was raring intentionally omitted?
 895 2014-03-24 12:14:47 <gribble> The operation succeeded.
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 917 2014-03-24 12:37:05 <epscy> michagogo|cloud: i'm on raring too
 918 2014-03-24 12:37:13 <epscy> michagogo|cloud: and don't have 0.9 yet
 919 2014-03-24 12:37:15 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|epscy: Hm?
 920 2014-03-24 12:37:29 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|It's not that I'm on raring, I just saw the ppa page on LP
 921 2014-03-24 12:37:36 <epscy> oh right
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 923 2014-03-24 12:38:01 <epscy> maybe i should dist-upgrade, something always breaks though...
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 925 2014-03-24 12:38:53 <wumpus> sipa: I'm not sure what you mean, there are various things being mlocked, see usage of secure_allocator
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 929 2014-03-24 12:40:42 <wumpus> allocating keys as static objects would effectively be a limited-size pool
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 931 2014-03-24 12:40:58 <sipa> wumpus: ok
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 933 2014-03-24 12:41:10 <wumpus> SecureString for example for passphrases
 934 2014-03-24 12:41:32 <wumpus> in any case if the pool has a static size, it will outgrow it after a certain number of keys, which is not nice
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 939 2014-03-24 12:44:36 <sipa> vlist allocation, maybe?
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 941 2014-03-24 12:45:08 <sipa> (liked list of exponentially-increasing size vectors)
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 943 2014-03-24 12:45:44 <wumpus> yes, something like that would be useful (but it goes into the "hand-rolled memory allocation solution" which I'm a bit wary about)
 944 2014-03-24 12:46:54 <wumpus> but if carefully tested that would be a good approach
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 949 2014-03-24 12:55:10 <gavinandresen> sipa: thanks for comments on https://gist.github.com/gavinandresen/9603614  .  I still think it might be a good approach, if the set of known transaction ids can be synchronized. I'm thinking good use of the 'reject' message would help (e.g. evict txn from mempool, send 'reject' to all your peers)
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 964 2014-03-24 13:10:17 <sipa> gavinandresen: there's always going to be some lag (the reject message being in flight in way one, a block in flight the other way), which will cause an extra round trip still
 965 2014-03-24 13:10:52 <gavinandresen> sipa: right, but if we can get a 90+% "hit rate" then we should win (because of exponential block propagation)
 966 2014-03-24 13:11:08 <gavinandresen> … where "hit" == does not require a round-trip
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 968 2014-03-24 13:11:58 <sipa> gavinandresen: perhaps yes, but i don't like focusing on average case without improving the worst case (just in general, perhaps not here)
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 970 2014-03-24 13:13:12 <gavinandresen> hearn: I've been busy working on your transaction fee estimate code; I like the RPC interface much better, but it is taking a LONG time to get reasonable estimates out of it. I'm going to try a variation to see if I can get faster convergence….
 971 2014-03-24 13:13:17 <hearn> heya
 972 2014-03-24 13:13:19 <hearn> hmm
 973 2014-03-24 13:13:42 <hearn> ok. i found it stabilised fairly quickly and even after weeks the estimates didn't change much - but since then the network may have changed (in particular mt gox vanished)
 974 2014-03-24 13:13:55 <sipa> gavinandresen: i think it's easier to just get a 2-phase protocol possible at some point and optimized, and use it in case you detect a high-latency link (we have automated ping!)
 975 2014-03-24 13:14:05 <gavinandresen> hearn: what was "fairly quickly" ?  An hour? day?
 976 2014-03-24 13:14:12 <sipa> sorry, low latency link
 977 2014-03-24 13:14:14 <hearn> i'm trying to remember. i feel like it was hours.
 978 2014-03-24 13:14:31 <hearn> because i was testing it at home on my laptop and remember feeling happy with the outputs after a while and then thinking more data didn't seem to change things much
 979 2014-03-24 13:14:35 <gavinandresen> hearn: ok, that's not too far off from what I'm seeing.
 980 2014-03-24 13:14:52 <hearn> partly because the buckets ended up very sparse. most transactions confirm immediately so the first few buckets filled up really fast and then the medians didn't change much
 981 2014-03-24 13:15:00 <hearn> ah ok. so we have different definitions of long time :)
 982 2014-03-24 13:15:05 <hearn> how fast do you want it to converge?
 983 2014-03-24 13:15:40 <gavinandresen> hearn: ideally you'd get rough estimates in just two or three blocks
 984 2014-03-24 13:15:43 <hearn> gavinandresen: isn't there already a setKnown? mapAlreadySeen or something?
 985 2014-03-24 13:15:54 <gavinandresen> hearn: yes....
 986 2014-03-24 13:15:55 <sipa> yes
 987 2014-03-24 13:16:24 <hearn> ok
 988 2014-03-24 13:16:49 <hearn> i was thinking a node could just rely on polling its peers for an average like SPV clients will, until it's got enough data to rely on itself
 989 2014-03-24 13:16:53 <gavinandresen> By the way: results of running estimate code over the weekend, priority and then fees:  http://0bin.net/paste/Qfrd8lqVu+2+41bq#WWIWkXv1qv+ZNwCNVrwNyMs4RHFzz41elQZkWYnBvp0=
 990 2014-03-24 13:17:46 <hearn> what does the blockcount-less version of estimatefee estimate again?
 991 2014-03-24 13:17:48 <hearn> i forgot
 992 2014-03-24 13:17:57 <gavinandresen> 0.00044248 BTC per kilobyte corresponds to our default 0.0001 per transaction (average transaction size is about 250 bytes)
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 994 2014-03-24 13:18:52 <gavinandresen> … so we're definitely seeing transaction confirmation times on the rise.  And default for "high" priority is way off, too
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 997 2014-03-24 13:19:23 <hearn> how do you mean, we're seeing them rise?
 998 2014-03-24 13:19:34 <hearn> seems like the data is saying if you pay the default fee, you get confirmed pretty fst
 999 2014-03-24 13:19:36 <hearn> *fast
1000 2014-03-24 13:19:57 <gavinandresen> hearn: … if by pretty fast you mean within the net eight blocks
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1005 2014-03-24 13:21:01 <gavinandresen> err, next eight blocks.  almost 90 minutes for first confirm is pretty slow in my head
1006 2014-03-24 13:21:03 <hearn> can you dump the size of the buckets as well? because all it says is that right now, confirmation times vary but mostly people pay the same fee
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1008 2014-03-24 13:21:21 <sipa> gavinandresen: better than 90 days (for credit cards) :)
1009 2014-03-24 13:21:21 <hearn> i mean, if there were 10 transactions that took a while to confirm because they relied on a free tx, for instance, then it'd show that sort of pattern too
1010 2014-03-24 13:21:37 <hearn> and the only giveaway would be that there's fewer samples for longer periods, which is what i was seeing
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1012 2014-03-24 13:22:05 <gavinandresen> hearn: lemme see if I can attach a debugger and dump the bucket sizes....
1013 2014-03-24 13:22:10 <hearn> i think the logging code does it
1014 2014-03-24 13:22:25 <hearn> or at least it did in my branch. that's how i produced the output in my threads. but a debugger should work too.
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1016 2014-03-24 13:22:52 <gavinandresen> hearn:  mmm… I forgot to run with debug=estimatefee ...
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1018 2014-03-24 13:23:31 <hearn> google binaries have the ability to flip command line flags at runtime. it'd be good to have a "changeflag" rpc
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1021 2014-03-24 13:23:51 <sipa> using a decent command-line flag library in the first place would be a good idea :)
1022 2014-03-24 13:24:22 <gavinandresen> hearn: yes, I've come THIS close to adding changeflag/getflag RPC commands a few times....
1023 2014-03-24 13:24:34 <sipa> so we'd have a "warning: flag X not recognized" at least...
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1025 2014-03-24 13:24:40 <hearn> sipa: googleflags is open source, right? :)
1026 2014-03-24 13:24:50 <sipa> hearn: hmm, it is? :)
1027 2014-03-24 13:24:59 <hearn> https://code.google.com/p/gflags/
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1029 2014-03-24 13:25:34 <hearn> https://gflags.googlecode.com/git-history/master/doc/gflags.html
1030 2014-03-24 13:25:46 <hearn> not that i'd welcome the return of --flags_with_underscores
1031 2014-03-24 13:25:57 <hearn> that never stopped being ugly even after 7 years
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1033 2014-03-24 13:26:51 <hearn> everything else rocks though. especially running --help, watching cpu hit 100% for a few seconds and then discovering the first set of flags has disappeared from your scrollback buffer :) it makes defining flags almost too easy ....
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1040 2014-03-24 13:32:34 <hearn> gavinandresen: i was thinking, if/when we do sipas tx malleability tx version=3 change, we should include the "output value in input slot when signing" change proposed by alan. because if we had that, SPV clients could estimate tx fees themselves without needing to just ask their peers and hope for the best
1041 2014-03-24 13:33:21 <hearn> because we could extend the p2p protocol with a new getdata mode that returns tx + utxo data. by verifying the signatures the utxo data can be verified as correct and the fee calculated. then SPV clients can keep around their bloom filter false positives, instead of throwing them away as today
1042 2014-03-24 13:33:27 <gavinandresen> hearn: is output value in input slot written up formally anywhere?
1043 2014-03-24 13:34:14 <hearn> by grabbing some false positives that are broadcast across the network and storing them to disk, they can then include them in their filters when syncing with the chain and discover how long they took to confirm
1044 2014-03-24 13:34:35 <hearn> hmmm. don't recall. it's a pretty simple change. it's on the forum at least. but yeah it should be a draft BIP i guess
1045 2014-03-24 13:35:17 <hearn> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=181734.0
1046 2014-03-24 13:35:31 <hearn> i don't think we need a new SIGHASH mode though. it can just be the default for v3 txns
1047 2014-03-24 13:35:40 <hearn> it also helps trezor, etc
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1050 2014-03-24 13:37:23 <gavinandresen> hearn: "be the default" : you mean signatures for v3 transactions would include the total amount in?  That's a hard-forking change...
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1052 2014-03-24 13:39:11 <hearn> yes, <insert usual hard/soft fork debate here>
1053 2014-03-24 13:39:29 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|gavinandresen: did you see the pgp thing?
1054 2014-03-24 13:39:32 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Was that you?
1055 2014-03-24 13:39:33 <hearn> (the one in which i argue that soft forks are bugs etc etc)
1056 2014-03-24 13:40:09 <gavinandresen> michagogo|cloud: no, somebody else submitted a bunch of bogus PGP keys.  Which is great, meant I didn't have to bother doing it.
1057 2014-03-24 13:40:28 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|o_O
1058 2014-03-24 13:40:31 <hearn> haha
1059 2014-03-24 13:40:39 <hearn> one more item ticked off the to-do list :)
1060 2014-03-24 13:40:48 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|I guess that makes more sense... wouldn't have thought you'd sign your real key with the bogus ones
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1072 2014-03-24 13:53:42 <gavinandresen> frickin frackin….  I want both to compile with both debugging and -DDEBUG_LOCKORDER :  --enable-debug and CXXFLAGS=-DDEBUG_LOCKORDER  doesn't do the right thing.  What is the best way to tell configure I want -g and -DDEBUG_LOCKORDER ?
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1075 2014-03-24 13:55:21 <hearn> CXXFLAGS='-g -DDEBUG_LOCKORDER' probably
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1079 2014-03-24 13:58:13 <gavinandresen> hearn: that what I assumed, but thought there might be an EXTRA_SPECIAL_REALLY_WORKS_CXXFLAGS that combines nicely with --enable-debug ....
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1082 2014-03-24 13:59:04 <hearn> i recall looking into this some time ago and failing to find such a thing. it seems such a basic need though ...
1083 2014-03-24 13:59:22 <gavinandresen> cfields : any way to add flags to --enable-debug ?
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1087 2014-03-24 14:00:56 <jgarzik> gavinandresen, easily
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1089 2014-03-24 14:01:11 <jgarzik> gavinandresen, just change "if test "x$enable_debug" = xyes; then" e.g. to parse the values in shell script
1090 2014-03-24 14:01:11 <gavinandresen> jgarzik: it is always easy when you know how!
1091 2014-03-24 14:01:52 <jgarzik> gavinandresen, though parsing something like "--enable-debug=foo+bar+baz" to enable flags foo, bar and baz can be slightly annoying in shell script
1092 2014-03-24 14:02:17 <gavinandresen> …. mmm.  I'm going to avoid --enable-debug for now and just use CXXFLAGS
1093 2014-03-24 14:02:53 <jgarzik> gavinandresen, if CXXFLAGS is overriden _and_ --enable-debug is absent, it should take what you provide verbatim and not mess with it
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1096 2014-03-24 14:04:52 <gavinandresen> jgarzik: yes, that is what it does. I'm just grumpy because I spent 20 minutes trying to figure out why I couldn't get lldb to show me anything besides assembly when I CLEARLY said --enable-debug ....
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1100 2014-03-24 14:05:59 <gavinandresen> And it is Monday, and my daughter is home with a fever and I'm scheduled to drive to New Jersey in a blizzard tomorrow night….  (grump grump grump)
1101 2014-03-24 14:06:47 <jgarzik> gavinandresen, people drive, in the north-east?  :)
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1115 2014-03-24 14:17:47 <hearn> gavinandresen: if it's any consolation, i'm currently filling out my tax return (in german)
1116 2014-03-24 14:17:56 <hearn> so life could be worse ;)
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1118 2014-03-24 14:20:55 <Ry4an_> we're getting a blizzard?!
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1146 2014-03-24 14:44:08 <anddam> hello
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1150 2014-03-24 14:47:28 * hearn stabs Congress
1151 2014-03-24 14:47:38 <hearn> i hate how america isn't content with complexifying their own tax returns, and has to dick with mine too
1152 2014-03-24 14:47:38 bdhuser is now known as Simon___
1153 2014-03-24 14:47:42 <hearn> grr
1154 2014-03-24 14:48:36 dims has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1155 2014-03-24 14:48:50 <anddam> hearn: are you not in USA?
1156 2014-03-24 14:49:13 <hearn> i am not
1157 2014-03-24 14:49:23 benrcole1 has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
1158 2014-03-24 14:49:50 <hearn> (and never have been)
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1160 2014-03-24 14:50:45 <anddam> how does Congress affects your tax return?
1161 2014-03-24 14:50:50 <anddam> affect*
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1166 2014-03-24 14:53:44 <hearn> part of my tax return is filling out forms asserting i'm not a US citizen, in order to reclaim withholding taxes. and i have to list out the various investments/assets and whether US withholding tax applies to each one, etc. all part of FATCA i guess. most of it's just copying from bank provided documentation but it's still annoying.
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1168 2014-03-24 14:55:09 <BCB> gmaxwell,
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1171 2014-03-24 14:57:29 <nezZario> You guys should sponsor gsoc next year..
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1176 2014-03-24 15:03:18 <anddam> nezZario: isn't it the opposite?
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1196 2014-03-24 15:31:44 <nezZario> anddam: what's the opposite?
1197 2014-03-24 15:31:56 <sipa> nezZario: google sponsoring a bitcoin gsoc project
1198 2014-03-24 15:32:01 <nezZario> i thought the projects paid part of it
1199 2014-03-24 15:32:10 <nezZario> i'm pretty sure the netbsd guys paid part of it last year?
1200 2014-03-24 15:32:21 <nezZario> maybe i'm very wrong,.. if so, my bad
1201 2014-03-24 15:32:23 <sipa> google pays the project and the student
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1213 2014-03-24 15:45:27 <anddam> nezZario: not that I know
1214 2014-03-24 15:46:13 <anddam> it's a win-win-win situation
1215 2014-03-24 15:46:33 <anddam> the student gets paid, the project gets paid, Google haz a little more of you
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1219 2014-03-24 15:47:18 <anddam> I'm building 0.9.0 for the third time, I could run target all fine, when I added "all appbundle" it returned an error
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1223 2014-03-24 15:52:06 <gavinandresen> anddam : using macports or brew or home-built dependencies ?
1224 2014-03-24 15:53:09 <anddam> gavinandresen: macports
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1226 2014-03-24 15:53:25 <gavinandresen> anddam : I'm using brew, have the coreutils installed and first in my path, and this is what make appbundle says for me:  http://0bin.net/paste/cQzVNalcwrnkIt3A#7yqIlcJTRJzhwmBjpOS+iAFyy2msh+I85p6WstWiMD4=
1227 2014-03-24 15:53:27 <anddam> gavinandresen: I read you were doing the builds and signed dmgs for OSX target
1228 2014-03-24 15:53:35 <anddam> I was going to query you eventually :-)
1229 2014-03-24 15:54:14 <anddam> I built all fine, then manually ran "make appbundle" and it built the bundle
1230 2014-03-24 15:54:40 <anddam> then I edited the Portfile to do all at once and got an error, now I cleaned so I don't have the error
1231 2014-03-24 15:54:50 <anddam> but give me a couple minutes and I'll bake a fresh new error for you
1232 2014-03-24 15:54:57 <gavinandresen> oh, but 'make all appbundle' doesn't work?  Dependency problem, I think I've run into that before.  File an issue at github.
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1234 2014-03-24 15:55:17 <gavinandresen> workaround would be make all; make appbundle as two separate steps, of course
1235 2014-03-24 15:55:17 <anddam> seems so, but I want to already reproduce once
1236 2014-03-24 15:55:27 <anddam> oh the build just broke
1237 2014-03-24 15:55:37 <anddam> I'm curious about why that happens tho'
1238 2014-03-24 15:55:52 <anddam> damn it built fine
1239 2014-03-24 15:56:01 <gavinandresen> race condition during build, probably
1240 2014-03-24 15:56:17 <anddam> I'll force build jobs to 1
1241 2014-03-24 15:57:04 <anddam> every make race condition enjoys a single-runner condition
1242 2014-03-24 15:58:04 <anddam> here, the error was a missing include for paymentrequest.pb.h
1243 2014-03-24 15:58:14 <anddam> doesn't seems a race condition but a missing -I
1244 2014-03-24 15:58:18 <anddam> seem*
1245 2014-03-24 15:58:44 <anddam> ofc that doesn't make sense with the other builds that went just fine without changing the flags
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1250 2014-03-24 16:10:51 <anddam> gavinandresen: I'd add two chmod -x for Info.plist and bitcoin.icns, there's no need for the to be marked as executable
1251 2014-03-24 16:11:20 <gavinandresen> anddam: "patches welcome"
1252 2014-03-24 16:11:28 <anddam> k
1253 2014-03-24 16:11:38 go1111111 has joined
1254 2014-03-24 16:11:51 <anddam> seemed so small to not be worth a PR
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1261 2014-03-24 16:14:44 <anddam> does 0.9.0 contain the address transaction index that spawned in 2802?
1262 2014-03-24 16:15:05 <anddam> maybe it's "did 0.9.0 merge"
1263 2014-03-24 16:15:08 num1_ has joined
1264 2014-03-24 16:15:32 <roidster> ;;halfreward
1265 2014-03-24 16:15:33 <gribble> Estimated time of bitcoin block reward halving: Sat Aug 27 17:04:10 2016 UTC | Time remaining: 2 years, 22 weeks, 3 days, 0 hours, 50 minutes, and 0 seconds.
1266 2014-03-24 16:16:04 <roidster> ;;interval
1267 2014-03-24 16:16:05 <gribble> 440.81632653061223
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1269 2014-03-24 16:17:39 num1_ is now known as Num1B51
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1273 2014-03-24 16:20:15 <chichov> how come I get an error in util.h line 102 when I try to use it in another class?
1274 2014-03-24 16:20:28 wallet42 has joined
1275 2014-03-24 16:20:29 <chichov> exact error line: #error missing boost sleep implementation
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1277 2014-03-24 16:20:58 <anddam> gavinandresen: can you check https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/3950 ?
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1279 2014-03-24 16:21:41 <jgarzik> anddam, seems correct, to my quick review.  Does it solve the problem?  i.e. testing
1280 2014-03-24 16:23:12 <anddam> lol, yes
1281 2014-03-24 16:23:30 <anddam> INSTALL_DATA is defined as $(INSTALL) -m 644
1282 2014-03-24 16:23:44 <anddam> my and I re-run the target to check
1283 2014-03-24 16:23:50 <anddam> s/my//
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1285 2014-03-24 16:24:00 <gavinandresen> anddam: commit message should say something like "Tested by doing BLAH on OSX FOO"
1286 2014-03-24 16:24:18 <gavinandresen> (where BLAH is 'make clean; make appbundle and then running Bitcoin-Qt.app" maybe)
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1289 2014-03-24 16:24:24 <anddam> gavinandresen: didn't know that
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1292 2014-03-24 16:25:13 <anddam> I moved the application bundle and re-run only appbundle target, then I checked the ls -lr output of both bundles
1293 2014-03-24 16:25:37 <anddam> I didn't run the program since such a change doesn't alter the actual executables
1294 2014-03-24 16:25:56 <gavinandresen> you assume such a change doesn't alter……   that is what testing catches.
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1327 2014-03-24 16:57:54 <Alina-malina> hmmm now to bind this bootstrap.dat file to bitcoin client i have the 13 GB file
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1332 2014-03-24 17:06:58 <chichov> any possibility to import the bitcoin source as a project into Eclipse or similar?
1333 2014-03-24 17:07:30 <maaku> chichov: no one is stopping you
1334 2014-03-24 17:07:49 <chichov> maaku: there are many dependencies and configurations necessary
1335 2014-03-24 17:07:50 torsthaldo has joined
1336 2014-03-24 17:08:03 <chichov> is there any quick, pre-existing solution?
1337 2014-03-24 17:08:08 <Alina-malina> hmmm how ti importt this bootstrap.dat file into bitcoin how to connect it eer?
1338 2014-03-24 17:08:09 <maaku> chichov: it's probably not going to make it into core if that's your question
1339 2014-03-24 17:08:31 pichop2 has joined
1340 2014-03-24 17:08:40 <chichov> my question is rather how I can quickly import the bitcoin code into an IDE
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1347 2014-03-24 17:13:22 <pichop2> Join hello
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1357 2014-03-24 17:22:28 <anddam> I drop it, my git-fu is unable to fix the commit message
1358 2014-03-24 17:22:32 <anddam> but I tested the app
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1362 2014-03-24 17:25:25 Pichop has joined
1363 2014-03-24 17:26:18 <anddam> is it ok to just edit hate comment in PR?
1364 2014-03-24 17:26:30 <anddam> s/hate/the/
1365 2014-03-24 17:26:40 <Tril> Alina-malina: move bootstrap.dat to your data directory. https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Data_directory
1366 2014-03-24 17:26:48 eculver_ is now known as eculver
1367 2014-03-24 17:27:00 <Alina-malina> and thats it?
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1370 2014-03-24 17:27:16 <Alina-malina> oh hmmmm let me try this
1371 2014-03-24 17:28:47 roidster has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
1372 2014-03-24 17:29:04 <maaku> anddam: git commit --amend?
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1377 2014-03-24 17:31:41 <Alina-malina> Tril, what next?
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1404 2014-03-24 17:52:26 <phantomcircuit> gavinandresen, do you know if using mlock() was ever an actual issue, re overlapping pages?
1405 2014-03-24 17:53:26 <gavinandresen> phantomcircuit: I don't know. BlueMatt  might know.
1406 2014-03-24 17:53:36 <phantomcircuit> BlueMatt, ping
1407 2014-03-24 17:54:46 <phantomcircuit> hmm i guess i should ask laanwj
1408 2014-03-24 17:55:09 <phantomcircuit> he's the one that wrote the histogram lock manager
1409 2014-03-24 17:56:28 phoenix52 has joined
1410 2014-03-24 17:56:45 <phoenix52> ?
1411 2014-03-24 17:56:51 <anddam> maaku: that's what i tried, but git complained the repository was 2 commits ahead
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1413 2014-03-24 17:57:40 kermit has joined
1414 2014-03-24 17:58:28 <dwdadadad> someone good with creating coins?
1415 2014-03-24 17:58:54 eristisk has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1416 2014-03-24 18:00:15 hmsimha has joined
1417 2014-03-24 18:01:18 <anddam> here's the message " ! [rejected]        master -> master (non-fast-forward)"
1418 2014-03-24 18:01:27 chichov has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1419 2014-03-24 18:01:29 <anddam> probably I should have committed in a different branch
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1421 2014-03-24 18:02:12 <dwdadadad> need help with a coin dev
1422 2014-03-24 18:04:11 tombtc has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
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1425 2014-03-24 18:07:41 <anddam> dwdadadad: best advice you'll get today http://www.catb.org/esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
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1427 2014-03-24 18:08:33 <LarsLarsen> You do not need a coin dev,  nor do you need a new coin.
1428 2014-03-24 18:08:47 <LarsLarsen> how convenient is that?!?!?
1429 2014-03-24 18:09:00 <flound1129> you need a new coin
1430 2014-03-24 18:09:03 <flound1129> and a coin dev
1431 2014-03-24 18:09:03 <flound1129> imo
1432 2014-03-24 18:09:12 <flound1129> need moar coins
1433 2014-03-24 18:09:21 <anddam> ohhh now I see, he meant a new alt-coin
1434 2014-03-24 18:09:30 <anddam> I thought he was referring to mining
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1438 2014-03-24 18:09:33 <LarsLarsen> dwdadadad: if someone could make a coin,  why would they need you?
1439 2014-03-24 18:11:04 Guyver2 has joined
1440 2014-03-24 18:12:46 <LarsLarsen> dude I'm gonna go in #scam and ask for a scammer
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1443 2014-03-24 18:15:36 <BlueMatt> phantomcircuit: I have no idea what you're talking about here?
1444 2014-03-24 18:15:46 tombtc has joined
1445 2014-03-24 18:15:57 <sipa> phantomcircuit: what is your question?
1446 2014-03-24 18:16:04 <phantomcircuit> BlueMatt, allocators.h LockedPageManagerBase
1447 2014-03-24 18:16:11 <sipa> phantomcircuit: wumpus wrote that
1448 2014-03-24 18:16:32 <sipa> phantomcircuit: but can you be more specific with your question? ("wrt x" is a bit vague)
1449 2014-03-24 18:16:34 <phantomcircuit> sipa, git says laanwj wrote it
1450 2014-03-24 18:16:41 <phantomcircuit> is git wrong?
1451 2014-03-24 18:16:44 <sipa> phantomcircuit: laanwj == wumpus
1452 2014-03-24 18:16:50 <phantomcircuit> oh right
1453 2014-03-24 18:16:56 <phantomcircuit> brain doesn't translate sometimes
1454 2014-03-24 18:17:01 <phantomcircuit> (like a lot of the time)
1455 2014-03-24 18:17:16 <phantomcircuit> is LockedPageManagerBase really necessary?
1456 2014-03-24 18:17:26 <sipa> compared to what?
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1459 2014-03-24 18:18:06 <phantomcircuit> hmm i guess there isn't much choice actually
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1461 2014-03-24 18:18:30 <sipa> compared to not having mlock()... sure, if we want that
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1463 2014-03-24 18:18:52 <sipa> the alternative is having actually a pool of mlocked pages used for a separate allocator
1464 2014-03-24 18:19:00 <sipa> which is better, but much more wasteful
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1466 2014-03-24 18:19:04 <sipa> eh, complex
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1468 2014-03-24 18:22:32 <Alina-malina> i cant make this bootstrap.dat file to work with windows xp bitcoind
1469 2014-03-24 18:22:36 <Alina-malina> how to do this?
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1475 2014-03-24 18:26:05 <sipa> Alina-malina: doing that kind of stuff is pretty hard on windows, missing many more lowlevel tools
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1477 2014-03-24 18:26:14 <Alina-malina> hmmm
1478 2014-03-24 18:26:22 <sipa> at least i wouldn't know how to
1479 2014-03-24 18:26:35 <Alina-malina> is it ok at least running this from virtualbox?
1480 2014-03-24 18:26:35 <sipa> there's a linearize.py tool in the contrib dir
1481 2014-03-24 18:26:40 <sipa> sure
1482 2014-03-24 18:26:52 <hearn> sipa: is there a rule that says you can only have one OP_RETURN per tx?
1483 2014-03-24 18:26:58 <sipa> hearn: yes
1484 2014-03-24 18:27:04 <sipa> hearn: (for it being standard)
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1492 2014-03-24 18:34:56 <hearn> sipa: why? seems like such a rule can be worked around just by creating more transactions
1493 2014-03-24 18:35:03 adam3us has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
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1495 2014-03-24 18:35:16 <sipa> hearn: everything can
1496 2014-03-24 18:35:32 <sipa> hearn: including putting it in multisig scripts
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1499 2014-03-24 18:35:56 <Alina-malina> sipa, is it possible to enable testnet? so i could test some multisig stuff?
1500 2014-03-24 18:36:04 <sipa> Alina-malina: run with -testnet
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1504 2014-03-24 18:36:24 <LarsLarsen> Is transaction replacement allowed currently?
1505 2014-03-24 18:36:26 <gmaxwell> The general goal there is to encourage the use of hash commitments for things where a commitment is useful instead of just shoving data into transactions to use the blockchain as a communications channel.
1506 2014-03-24 18:36:27 <sipa> no
1507 2014-03-24 18:36:38 <LarsLarsen> could it ever be?  What are the implications?
1508 2014-03-24 18:36:51 <Alina-malina> sipa, ok thanks alot, also please tell me i have the bootstrap.dat file, but i cant bind it to my bitcoind how do to that?
1509 2014-03-24 18:37:00 <LarsLarsen> sipa: I'm asking re: coinjoin
1510 2014-03-24 18:37:06 <sipa> Alina-malina: you just put it in the right directory
1511 2014-03-24 18:37:19 <Alina-malina> hmmm what is the right directory?
1512 2014-03-24 18:37:23 <sipa> the datadir
1513 2014-03-24 18:37:49 <Alina-malina> sipa, bitcoind -datadir=c:\datadir  i did this but nothing works
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1515 2014-03-24 18:37:56 <Alina-malina> the bootstrap is in my c:\datadir folder
1516 2014-03-24 18:38:03 <sipa> define "nothing works"
1517 2014-03-24 18:38:30 <Alina-malina> where i can see if the entire blockchain is binded to my bitcoind
1518 2014-03-24 18:38:41 <Alina-malina> sipa, i have this:  "blocks" : 43747,
1519 2014-03-24 18:38:49 <Alina-malina> in my getinfo command
1520 2014-03-24 18:38:55 <sipa> does the number go up?
1521 2014-03-24 18:39:08 <Alina-malina> very slowly
1522 2014-03-24 18:39:16 <Alina-malina> like it is downloading from the internet
1523 2014-03-24 18:39:19 <Alina-malina> not the bootstrap.dat file
1524 2014-03-24 18:39:23 <sipa> did you put the bootstrap.dat there before or after starting bitcoind?
1525 2014-03-24 18:39:34 <Alina-malina> before i guess
1526 2014-03-24 18:39:48 drayah has joined
1527 2014-03-24 18:39:49 <Alina-malina> i stop it multiple times and rerun again but nothing works
1528 2014-03-24 18:40:07 <Kuba1234_> anyone know why some commands like getrawtransaction wouldn't work on 0.8.6 despite having reindex and txindex=1 in bitcoin.conf? i
1529 2014-03-24 18:40:10 <LarsLarsen> its not going to verify the blockchain instantly
1530 2014-03-24 18:40:21 basva has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
1531 2014-03-24 18:40:54 <Alina-malina> LarsLarsen, so what is going to happen then?
1532 2014-03-24 18:40:56 <sipa> Kuba1234_: on which transaction in particular?
1533 2014-03-24 18:41:03 <Kuba1234_> all
1534 2014-03-24 18:41:11 <LarsLarsen> alina-malina: just wait,  its faster than downloading
1535 2014-03-24 18:41:28 <sipa> Kuba1234_: you shouldn't put reindex in the config, as that means it will restart over every time you run bitcoind
1536 2014-03-24 18:41:29 <Alina-malina> LarsLarsen, well right now it stop on 44547
1537 2014-03-24 18:41:50 <sipa> Kuba1234_: which may take hours
1538 2014-03-24 18:42:03 <Kuba1234_> I only put it later because it didn't work otherwise
1539 2014-03-24 18:42:21 <Kuba1234_> I didn't have any problems when I used command line
1540 2014-03-24 18:42:39 olalonde has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
1541 2014-03-24 18:42:44 <sipa> you need to run it *once* with -reindex
1542 2014-03-24 18:42:52 <Kuba1234_> but then after restarting bitcoin-qt it looked like the txindex=1 stopped working
1543 2014-03-24 18:43:06 <Kuba1234_> ie. code -05
1544 2014-03-24 18:43:08 <LarsLarsen> alina-malina: maybe the bootstrap.dat file is corrupt?  If its really stopped move the file out of there and just download from the network
1545 2014-03-24 18:43:17 <Alina-malina> hmmm
1546 2014-03-24 18:43:22 <Alina-malina> just move and thats it?
1547 2014-03-24 18:43:34 <LarsLarsen> restart and see if it starts downloading blocks again
1548 2014-03-24 18:43:36 <Alina-malina> what i have to put in bitcoin.conf file to use bitcoin -reindex finction/
1549 2014-03-24 18:43:41 <Alina-malina> *function
1550 2014-03-24 18:43:43 <LarsLarsen> you may be out of disk space?
1551 2014-03-24 18:43:52 <Alina-malina> no i have space
1552 2014-03-24 18:43:55 <Alina-malina> i checked
1553 2014-03-24 18:44:02 <sipa> what does debug.log say?
1554 2014-03-24 18:44:23 drayah has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
1555 2014-03-24 18:44:37 <Alina-malina> omg it is 10MB
1556 2014-03-24 18:44:47 _flow_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1557 2014-03-24 18:44:56 <LarsLarsen> just the last part
1558 2014-03-24 18:44:58 <Alina-malina> sipa, 2014-03-24 18:43:19 ProcessBlock: ORPHAN BLOCK 751, prev=0000000000000002549f9deb16bf7cdd7e1a1caff8e80ba00c5b9d554bbbe6d8   heheheheheh
1559 2014-03-24 18:45:09 davout has quit (Quit: kthxbye)
1560 2014-03-24 18:45:20 <sipa> Alina-malina: you're fetching from network
1561 2014-03-24 18:45:34 <Alina-malina> hmm you mean it is downloading from internet?
1562 2014-03-24 18:45:43 <sipa> yes
1563 2014-03-24 18:45:55 <Alina-malina> i think i am doing something wrong
1564 2014-03-24 18:45:56 <sipa> are you sure the file is in the right directory?
1565 2014-03-24 18:45:58 <anddam> gavinandresen, jgarzik: edited the commit message btw
1566 2014-03-24 18:46:15 <Alina-malina> well i put it in c:\datadir folder
1567 2014-03-24 18:46:20 <Kuba1234_> sipa: also, for some reason now that I have reindex in bitcoin.conf, after restarting bitcoin-qt it doesn't seem to reindex, it looks like it's not working properly (and it worked ok by command line but after a reboot it looks like it was all reset and again "code -5" for all tx)
1568 2014-03-24 18:46:20 <Alina-malina> bootstrap.dat file
1569 2014-03-24 18:46:26 <LarsLarsen> %APPDATA%/.bitcoin/  IIRC
1570 2014-03-24 18:46:48 maaku has joined
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1572 2014-03-24 18:46:52 <sipa> Kuba1234_: define "not working properly"
1573 2014-03-24 18:46:54 <Alina-malina> LarsLarsen, ?
1574 2014-03-24 18:47:02 <Alina-malina> LarsLarsen, is that for me?
1575 2014-03-24 18:47:08 <sipa> Alina-malina: testnet?
1576 2014-03-24 18:47:25 <Alina-malina> sipa, no the bootstrap.dat file
1577 2014-03-24 18:47:28 <LarsLarsen> alina-malina: open a file window and at the top click and type %APPDATA%/.bitcoin/
1578 2014-03-24 18:47:41 <LarsLarsen> thats where the debug.log is
1579 2014-03-24 18:47:43 <sipa> LarsLarsen: he's setting -datadir on the command line, which overrides
1580 2014-03-24 18:47:43 <Alina-malina> LarsLarsen, i am in windows
1581 2014-03-24 18:47:43 <LarsLarsen> put it there
1582 2014-03-24 18:47:51 <Kuba1234_> sipa: running bitcoin-qt with -reindex reindexes the blockchain which takes several hours; runnig bitcoin-qt with reindex in bitcoin.conf doesn't seem to reindex the blockchain at all
1583 2014-03-24 18:47:54 <Alina-malina> oh
1584 2014-03-24 18:47:54 <Alina-malina> hmm
1585 2014-03-24 18:47:56 <Alina-malina> just a moment
1586 2014-03-24 18:48:03 <LarsLarsen> yes,  thats where it goes,  %APPDATA% is a macro for your settings dir on windows
1587 2014-03-24 18:48:05 <LarsLarsen> which could be anywhere
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1589 2014-03-24 18:48:39 <Alina-malina> LarsLarsen, ok i put it there
1590 2014-03-24 18:48:41 <Alina-malina> now what?
1591 2014-03-24 18:48:58 <sipa> Kuba1234_: that's interesting
1592 2014-03-24 18:49:01 <LarsLarsen> sorry,  I made a mistake alina
1593 2014-03-24 18:49:18 <Alina-malina> hmm
1594 2014-03-24 18:49:18 <LarsLarsen> its %APPDATA%/Bitcoin/
1595 2014-03-24 18:49:25 <LarsLarsen> not .b but B without the dot
1596 2014-03-24 18:49:38 <Alina-malina> yes i put it there in %APPDATA%/Bitcoin/
1597 2014-03-24 18:49:40 <Alina-malina> so now what?
1598 2014-03-24 18:49:41 <LarsLarsen> you should see other files there already,  like the debug.log file!!!!
1599 2014-03-24 18:49:43 <Alina-malina> should i bing it somehow?
1600 2014-03-24 18:49:49 <LarsLarsen> ok now restart bitcoin
1601 2014-03-24 18:50:15 <Alina-malina> ok i start the /daemonbitcoind
1602 2014-03-24 18:50:16 adam3us has joined
1603 2014-03-24 18:50:43 <LarsLarsen> sure,  or the bitcoin-qt,  either one
1604 2014-03-24 18:50:46 MaxSan has joined
1605 2014-03-24 18:50:55 <Alina-malina> hmmm debug.log is incresing
1606 2014-03-24 18:51:07 <maaku> Alina-malina: LarsLarsen: #bitcoin, please
1607 2014-03-24 18:51:41 <LarsLarsen> maaku: I know,  I was trying to help sipa help him
1608 2014-03-24 18:51:53 P4Titan has joined
1609 2014-03-24 18:51:55 <Alina-malina> maaku, just let them finish what they started please
1610 2014-03-24 18:52:11 chichov has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
1611 2014-03-24 18:52:13 <LarsLarsen> alina: it should be working,  you should go through blocks quickly
1612 2014-03-24 18:52:24 <Alina-malina> LarsLarsen, yes looks like you are right i have this: 2014-03-24 18:50:26 ProcessBlock: ACCEPTED
1613 2014-03-24 18:52:30 <LarsLarsen> congratulations
1614 2014-03-24 18:52:35 <Alina-malina> yes thank you so much!!!
1615 2014-03-24 18:52:37 <LarsLarsen> go to #bitcoin
1616 2014-03-24 18:52:37 <Alina-malina> now it way more faster
1617 2014-03-24 18:52:39 <Alina-malina> thanks!!!
1618 2014-03-24 18:52:40 <Alina-malina> ok ok
1619 2014-03-24 18:52:41 <Alina-malina> :)
1620 2014-03-24 18:52:41 <LarsLarsen> :)
1621 2014-03-24 18:52:45 <Alina-malina> thanks for everyone again:)
1622 2014-03-24 18:53:43 <P4Titan> Hello, I am tring to connect to another coputer on a custom client. I changed the rpc ports from the bitcoin client and when I run it, they two computers find the ip, but it says connection timeout
1623 2014-03-24 18:53:45 <maaku> Alina-malina: the point is to keep this channel free of noise so bitcoin developers can have discussions about code
1624 2014-03-24 18:53:52 <maaku> intermixing tech support hinders that
1625 2014-03-24 18:54:19 <Alina-malina> maaku, ok ok i get that:) thanks alot!
1626 2014-03-24 18:56:08 <helo> P4Titan: please ask in #bitcoin
1627 2014-03-24 18:56:23 HeySteve has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
1628 2014-03-24 18:56:35 <P4Titan> ok
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1635 2014-03-24 19:02:15 <phantomcircuit> sipa, i guess i get to write my own memory allocation manager :P
1636 2014-03-24 19:02:31 <sipa> phantomcircuit: i think you should just not load all private keys into memory :)
1637 2014-03-24 19:02:34 <phantomcircuit> (i get to cheat though because this is only being used by CKey for a 32 byte array)
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1639 2014-03-24 19:03:21 <phantomcircuit> sipa, hmm
1640 2014-03-24 19:03:36 <phantomcircuit> sipa, doing that would require changing a lot of things
1641 2014-03-24 19:03:44 <sipa> phantomcircuit: ?
1642 2014-03-24 19:03:45 khalahan has quit (Quit: Bye)
1643 2014-03-24 19:03:50 <sipa> phantomcircuit: just use encrypted wallets
1644 2014-03-24 19:04:02 <phantomcircuit> sipa, oh
1645 2014-03-24 19:04:06 <phantomcircuit> that's funny
1646 2014-03-24 19:04:10 P4Titan has left ("party")
1647 2014-03-24 19:04:23 <sipa> phantomcircuit: that's the only way to make not mlocking the data safe
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1670 2014-03-24 19:21:46 <pootietang> sup guys, is there a way to flush the mempool without having to restart bitcoind?
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1675 2014-03-24 19:24:04 <jgarzik> pootietang, no
1676 2014-03-24 19:24:53 <sipa> pootietang: what do you need that for?
1677 2014-03-24 19:25:24 Eagle[TM] has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
1678 2014-03-24 19:25:28 <pootietang> jgarzik: is it in the works?
1679 2014-03-24 19:25:48 <jgarzik> pootietang, no
1680 2014-03-24 19:26:12 <maaku> pootietang: why would you need that?
1681 2014-03-24 19:26:14 <gavinandresen> the opposite is in the works:  save/restore the memory pool between restarts.
1682 2014-03-24 19:26:23 <phantomcircuit> sipa, oh no i was talking about doing an mlock, but for relatively large blocks
1683 2014-03-24 19:26:26 <sipa> phantomcircuit: see #3949
1684 2014-03-24 19:27:50 <maaku> for miners I suppose it would be nice to directly add/remove from the mempool
1685 2014-03-24 19:28:00 <maaku> but I don't know why you'd want to clear it entirely
1686 2014-03-24 19:28:05 <pootietang> sipa: we're not sure what's the limit in term of memory in the long run, that's why I am asking about it.
1687 2014-03-24 19:28:12 xdotcomm_ has joined
1688 2014-03-24 19:28:24 <hearn> pootietang: run "free -m" and find out ;)
1689 2014-03-24 19:28:40 <maaku> pootietang: then what you want is a limit on mempool size, not flushing it entirely
1690 2014-03-24 19:28:54 anddam has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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1692 2014-03-24 19:29:02 <sipa> yeah, a memory-limited mempool is certainly needed anyway
1693 2014-03-24 19:29:17 <sipa> it hasn't been a problem so far, as you need lots of UTXO to spam it
1694 2014-03-24 19:29:33 <sipa> but i'm sure that the decrease of relayfee has decreased that cost
1695 2014-03-24 19:29:36 <hearn> i wonder if i should create a demo of how to do tagging of transactions with OP_RETURN + HASH160 + TomP2P DHT
1696 2014-03-24 19:30:50 <phantomcircuit> sipa, ah
1697 2014-03-24 19:30:51 <pootietang> thanks for the great answers guys!
1698 2014-03-24 19:30:55 <phantomcircuit> heh that's funny
1699 2014-03-24 19:31:08 <gavinandresen> hearn: Good Idea. You or gmaxwell should write up a "So you want to use OP_RETURN…"  'how to do it' post
1700 2014-03-24 19:31:20 basva has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
1701 2014-03-24 19:31:22 <gavinandresen> … leading horses to water and all that....
1702 2014-03-24 19:31:31 <hearn> i already wrote up how to do distributed markets on the wiki years ago. seems people might not have read it ...
1703 2014-03-24 19:31:36 <hearn> perhaps the new dev guide can be a place to discuss these topics
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1705 2014-03-24 19:32:54 <phantomcircuit> wumpus, im guessing you saw my complaints :P
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1720 2014-03-24 19:54:21 <kadoban> If I'm trying to grok scripts completely, is there anything I should be looking at between https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Script and script.cpp?
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1724 2014-03-24 19:58:22 <topynate> any bitcoin node is already connected to a P2P network. how about adding an (optional) key-value store to the bitcoin core client, accessible through RPC? that would also make it possible for each node to authenticate each DHT insert against the referred transaction - would be useful as an anti-spam measure
1725 2014-03-24 19:58:30 <maaku> kadoban: here is a nice introduction : https://docs.google.com/a/monetize.io/document/d/1D_gi_7Sf9sOyAHG25cMpOO4xtLq3iJUtjRwcZXFLv1E/edit
1726 2014-03-24 19:58:39 <maaku> kadoban: after that, forget the wiki and look at script.cpp
1727 2014-03-24 20:00:44 <kadoban> maaku: thanks
1728 2014-03-24 20:01:46 <sipa> topynate: what DHT insert? what DHT in the first place?
1729 2014-03-24 20:02:11 rdbell has joined
1730 2014-03-24 20:02:13 <pootietang> maaku: thanks for the doc, I was looking for this as well.
1731 2014-03-24 20:03:08 <kadoban> maaku: I take it that there is no technical specification of how scripts should work except the reference implementation?
1732 2014-03-24 20:03:48 <jgarzik> hearn, +1 RE demo
1733 2014-03-24 20:03:54 hmsimha has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1734 2014-03-24 20:04:36 <hearn> topynate: you can attach a different dht very easily. TomP2P lets you bring one up in about 10 lines of code ....
1735 2014-03-24 20:05:08 <jgarzik> hearn, There is a ton of solid theoretical work on bitcoin at this point.  Mostly people seem to be reinventing wheels and not really pushing the bounds of escrow, contracts, oracles, ...  A few people are starting to "scratch the surface" of those deeper, 2nd-order topics this year. Finally.
1736 2014-03-24 20:05:18 <jgarzik> hearn, As such, I view demos like your payfile as quite valuable
1737 2014-03-24 20:05:30 <maaku> kadoban: correct, that's why you should focus on script.cpp
1738 2014-03-24 20:05:32 stavros has quit (Disconnected by services)
1739 2014-03-24 20:05:38 <jgarzik> hearn, People can steal^Wbootstrap from working prototypes
1740 2014-03-24 20:05:38 <topynate> sipa: was proposing direct integration of a DHT into the core client, using existing node-node connections.
1741 2014-03-24 20:05:40 <kadoban> maaku: thanks again :)
1742 2014-03-24 20:05:41 <maaku> the reference implementation *is* the spec
1743 2014-03-24 20:05:44 stavs has joined
1744 2014-03-24 20:05:44 <sipa> topynate: hell no
1745 2014-03-24 20:05:49 <hearn> yeah i'd hope so. but they need to be promoted more
1746 2014-03-24 20:06:09 <hearn> i mean payfile unfortunately ran out of steam because someone came along and said they'd work on it, submitted a few patches, then lost interest and went to fiddle with alt coins
1747 2014-03-24 20:06:14 <hearn> and by then i'd switched focus to something else
1748 2014-03-24 20:06:18 <sipa> topynate: no need to push the burden of application-specific data onto every node
1749 2014-03-24 20:06:19 <hearn> finishing is hard :)
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1752 2014-03-24 20:06:29 <maaku> topynate: I know of no secure DHT implementation, anywhere
1753 2014-03-24 20:06:31 drayah has joined
1754 2014-03-24 20:06:36 <jgarzik> hearn, a minimum working demo is sufficient, IMO
1755 2014-03-24 20:06:41 <maaku> i would not rely on DHT for a financial network
1756 2014-03-24 20:06:47 <jgarzik> hearn, whack people over the head with working code ;p
1757 2014-03-24 20:07:12 <jgarzik> maaku, but... but... it's distributed!  what could go wrong?
1758 2014-03-24 20:07:13 <jgarzik> ;p
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1761 2014-03-24 20:07:59 <topynate> maaku: that does seem to militate against the whole idea of a DHT. but if each key-value update is signed by the same pubkey that signed a matching OP_RETURN transaction, it doesn't seem like it would be so easy to subvert
1762 2014-03-24 20:08:02 <hearn> maaku: bitcoin is sort of a DHT except one where every key is replicated to every node, and the logging is really verbose ;)
1763 2014-03-24 20:08:22 <sipa> ^- and has probabilistic consistency
1764 2014-03-24 20:08:30 basva_ has joined
1765 2014-03-24 20:08:35 <jgarzik> More seriously, there are some good ideas amiller and I tossed about on securing DHTs with burns/PoW/etc., signed messages and other wizardry.  In general, most DHT implementations do tend to be easily attacked.
1766 2014-03-24 20:08:39 <sipa> typical DHT networks have no consistency at all
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1768 2014-03-24 20:08:54 <sipa> (or DoS protection)
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1770 2014-03-24 20:09:20 <jgarzik> sipa, or time ordering
1771 2014-03-24 20:09:25 <hearn> right
1772 2014-03-24 20:09:33 <sipa> jgarzik: consistency >> ordering
1773 2014-03-24 20:09:34 <hearn> however for the OP_RETURN case you don't need that
1774 2014-03-24 20:09:45 <hearn> you just need a way to expand a hash into the data it's a hash of
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1776 2014-03-24 20:10:42 <sipa> right, by putthing the hashed key in transactions, and have the blockchain committing to them, you get the consistency requirements
1777 2014-03-24 20:10:48 <sipa> you don't get the DoS protection, though
1778 2014-03-24 20:11:06 <hearn> well, it's not like bitcoin is really DoS-proof ....
1779 2014-03-24 20:11:06 <sipa> (which is exactly the reason for not wanting it inside bitcoin)
1780 2014-03-24 20:11:24 drayah has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
1781 2014-03-24 20:11:28 <sipa> well, the rate at which changes can be made it limited
1782 2014-03-24 20:11:35 <sipa> (block size limit)
1783 2014-03-24 20:12:15 drayah_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1784 2014-03-24 20:12:16 aegis has joined
1785 2014-03-24 20:12:19 <hearn> i just wish there were more hours in the day. but from reading parts of the counterparty thread, i am thinking even if I or someone else did a demo of how to do it right, they'd come up with some other excuse for using multisig
1786 2014-03-24 20:12:23 <hearn> because that's the code they already wrote
1787 2014-03-24 20:12:30 <hearn> and they're not gonna want to rewrite in java or whatever
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1792 2014-03-24 20:15:02 <jgarzik> hearn, +1
1793 2014-03-24 20:15:49 <topynate> hearn: it's possible that there'll be resistance to anything that doesn't put all the transactional data on the blockchain, but i don't see any reason anyone would prefer multisig to OP_RETURN for that. and i rather suspect that if you could issue an RPC call to bitcoind that inserted into a DHT with an op_return reference, that would already be satifactory to key counterparty/mastercoin developers
1794 2014-03-24 20:16:07 <hearn> right
1795 2014-03-24 20:16:15 <topynate> but if that opens up a DoS attack then i can see why it'd be a bad idea
1796 2014-03-24 20:16:19 <jgarzik> topynate, sadly, multisig permits transit of more data
1797 2014-03-24 20:16:23 <hearn> perhaps all that's needed is a separate server that does JSON-RPC and is a frontend to a DHT system
1798 2014-03-24 20:16:25 <jgarzik> hearn, ^
1799 2014-03-24 20:16:38 kermit has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
1800 2014-03-24 20:17:03 <Tiraspol> jgarzik are you a multi-sig hater?
1801 2014-03-24 20:17:03 <jgarzik> hearn, IMO a DHT becomes a bit more reasonable if the input data or messages are provable/verifyable somehow
1802 2014-03-24 20:17:25 <hearn> well if you just look up hash->content then you just check the content hashes to the key, properly
1803 2014-03-24 20:17:29 <hearn> and then it's self verifying, right?
1804 2014-03-24 20:17:49 <jgarzik> hearn, if you cannot prove the data is within a dataset, it just becomes a dumping ground
1805 2014-03-24 20:18:00 kermit has joined
1806 2014-03-24 20:18:13 gojomo has joined
1807 2014-03-24 20:18:22 <jgarzik> hearn, economically you need to increase the friction slightly
1808 2014-03-24 20:18:45 askmike has joined
1809 2014-03-24 20:18:45 <ribasushi> jgarzik: "Chancellor on brink of second bailout for banks" ?
1810 2014-03-24 20:18:45 gojomo has quit (Client Quit)
1811 2014-03-24 20:18:45 <jgarzik> hearn, maybe publishing requires a burned miner fee or something
1812 2014-03-24 20:18:54 <hearn> you could have a mini server that talks to a DHT and bitcoin simultaneously, and only stores data if it finds a reference to it in the block chain
1813 2014-03-24 20:19:00 <jgarzik> hearn, yep
1814 2014-03-24 20:19:15 <jgarzik> hearn, that's the sort of direction to go
1815 2014-03-24 20:20:02 aegis has quit (Excess Flood)
1816 2014-03-24 20:20:17 <sipa> you mean only accept a request from the DHT network to store something in your own shard, in case a reference in the chain is found?
1817 2014-03-24 20:20:50 <hearn> eyah
1818 2014-03-24 20:20:53 <hearn> oops. yeah.
1819 2014-03-24 20:20:59 <sipa> you don't even need a full node for that
1820 2014-03-24 20:21:02 <sipa> SPV suffices
1821 2014-03-24 20:21:08 <jgarzik> hearn, one facet of DHTs similar to bitcoin that bears noting: client must retransmit periodically, otherwise the network will eventually forget data (though you can possibly tune that a bit, to make oft-requested data well cached)
1822 2014-03-24 20:21:16 aegis has joined
1823 2014-03-24 20:21:18 <hearn> yah
1824 2014-03-24 20:21:20 <sipa> well, SPV watching all transactions, but not storing them
1825 2014-03-24 20:21:33 <hearn> sipa: yes. you can just set a bloom filter watching for the magic system-specific prefix bytes in an OP_RETURN
1826 2014-03-24 20:21:41 <hearn> that's why i was thinking i could quickly whip something up
1827 2014-03-24 20:21:47 <phantomcircuit> Lock=mlock(addr, len) == 0 nsec=5814222047 counter=10000
1828 2014-03-24 20:21:54 <hearn> it basically means gluing together bitcoinj and TomP2P (dht library for java that does p2p protocol, upnp, etc)
1829 2014-03-24 20:22:10 <phantomcircuit> 581 usec per mlock call
1830 2014-03-24 20:22:13 <phantomcircuit> that cannot be right
1831 2014-03-24 20:22:22 <topynate> you could also have the key refer to a pair of (data, TX_ID)
1832 2014-03-24 20:22:37 <jgarzik> hearn, as long as there is some limiting factor to prevent general-dumping-ground issue, sounds like a good direction.
1833 2014-03-24 20:22:55 <topynate> i mean the TXID couldn't be part of the hash, but the server could use the TX_ID to look up the OP_RETURN and check for a match
1834 2014-03-24 20:23:14 askmike has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1835 2014-03-24 20:23:26 roybadam1 is now known as roybadami
1836 2014-03-24 20:24:00 <gavinandresen> sipa hearn :  that's what I was getting at when I said we need to teach people to unpack the services of the blockchain; it gives an ordered ledger and (via transaction fees) a way of combatting DoS/spam for both the Bitcoin transactions and for whatever system you're using to store your data (DHT/website/FreeNode/whatever)
1837 2014-03-24 20:24:31 * hearn nods
1838 2014-03-24 20:25:03 disident has quit (Quit: disident)
1839 2014-03-24 20:25:20 <hearn> yes. people are often limited by the pre-existing tools. mastercoin/counterparty settled on their approaches because you can do it entirely with bitcoind/rpc and they're technically limited. then they interpreted pushback as attacks against their whole idea because they felt they couldn't jump to meet the bar being demanded
1840 2014-03-24 20:25:52 <gavinandresen> maybe we should add a DHT to the reference implementation  (KIDDING!!!!)
1841 2014-03-24 20:26:15 disident has joined
1842 2014-03-24 20:26:40 <hearn> hehe. i think a standalone server that does its own json-rpc interface and provides a way to make tagged transactions/retrieve the tagged data would be useful. it can avoid DHT entries when the data to be stored is < 32 bytes
1843 2014-03-24 20:27:30 drayah__ has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1844 2014-03-24 20:27:43 <sipa> for their type of usage, where every full node of theirs needs to see the contents of every transactions (thus, the object the hash references), a DHT will both have very bad scalability and bad reliability
1845 2014-03-24 20:28:04 drayah has joined
1846 2014-03-24 20:28:14 <hearn> not any different to a simple broadcast-and-store-forever network like bitcoin itself
1847 2014-03-24 20:28:20 <sipa> exactly
1848 2014-03-24 20:28:23 <sipa> they need a sidechain
1849 2014-03-24 20:28:27 <sipa> not a DHT
1850 2014-03-24 20:29:04 <hearn> but that would add complexity for the temporal consistency properties they don't need. all they really need is a reliable bitbucket. if you ramp up the replication settings on your DHT to over 9000 then you get what they need
1851 2014-03-24 20:29:21 <jgarzik> DHTs tend to have problems with dataset completeness, over time
1852 2014-03-24 20:29:44 <hearn> yes because nodes delete data
1853 2014-03-24 20:29:53 <hearn> but you can always disable that
1854 2014-03-24 20:29:57 <jgarzik> no, just restart/never-know
1855 2014-03-24 20:30:01 <hearn> sure it doesn't scale. but neither does bitcoin :)
1856 2014-03-24 20:30:09 samson_ has joined
1857 2014-03-24 20:30:37 <hearn> i guess people would have to try it
1858 2014-03-24 20:31:04 <sipa> a DHT wouldn't work for bitcoin transactions
1859 2014-03-24 20:31:11 <sipa> so it just as well wouldn't work for theirs
1860 2014-03-24 20:31:12 <jgarzik> I turn on a new node, it knows nothing
1861 2014-03-24 20:31:55 <jgarzik> DHTs are very useful for short term or temporal data.  Rendezvous services, where nodes meet based on a protocol that generates a hash.
1862 2014-03-24 20:32:01 <topynate> jgarzik: but once it's up to date, you know with certainty that you've seen all transactions before the most recent block you've verified
1863 2014-03-24 20:32:20 drayah has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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1865 2014-03-24 20:32:38 <jgarzik> not really.  DHTs are intentionally lossy.  Designing one that's not lossy is hard, with nodes trying to offload their own work.
1866 2014-03-24 20:32:59 <topynate> jgarzik: i was talking about bitcoin blocks :)
1867 2014-03-24 20:33:03 <jgarzik> the network has to be able to automagically figure out partitioning/sharding/hot spots
1868 2014-03-24 20:33:53 <jgarzik> some sort of ordered chain is what you really want for more financial transactions.
1869 2014-03-24 20:33:56 <phantomcircuit> sipa, i wonder if this is because im in a vm
1870 2014-03-24 20:34:00 <maaku> topynate: i'm not sure what you're advocating for?
1871 2014-03-24 20:34:03 <jgarzik> DHT might be a caching layer
1872 2014-03-24 20:34:05 <hearn> sipa: already. globally replicated non-blockchain chain
1873 2014-03-24 20:34:18 <hearn> or just globally replicated log
1874 2014-03-24 20:35:09 <jgarzik> counterparty and other such have to prove within their own systems ordering and double spending.  timestamping a hash into the bitcoin blockchain doesn't buy you any security within your own system, beyond a simple timestamp.
1875 2014-03-24 20:35:27 <sipa> yeah, they really need their own chain afaict
1876 2014-03-24 20:35:28 <kadoban> Is there any way to tell how exactly the "disabled" script opcodes /should/ work, if they were enabled?  Were they ever implemented before they were disabled, or?
1877 2014-03-24 20:35:33 <jgarzik> yep
1878 2014-03-24 20:35:42 <sipa> kadoban: yes, but that is completely irrelevant now
1879 2014-03-24 20:35:51 <sipa> kadoban: adding them back is just as hard as reimplementing them
1880 2014-03-24 20:35:58 coeus_ has joined
1881 2014-03-24 20:36:04 <hearn> well i was thinking more about my own bond network proposal. i haven't looked at counterparty much. but if they're trying to create their own currency too then yes a custom chain seems necessary. otherwise they could get transactions being re-ordered by bitcoin ...
1882 2014-03-24 20:36:19 <kadoban> sipa: Yeah, but I'm still interested.  Is it possible to look them up somehow?  Would it be in the history of the git repo, or is it too old for that?
1883 2014-03-24 20:37:11 <jgarzik> kadoban, it's in the git repo
1884 2014-03-24 20:37:21 <jgarzik> kadoban, "git tag -l" lists all tags
1885 2014-03-24 20:37:21 <sipa> kadoban: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/commit/bce697d7faef0d8119ba80ae583cfcce460c7f81
1886 2014-03-24 20:37:30 <sipa> that's the commit that removed them entirely
1887 2014-03-24 20:37:38 <kadoban> Thanks very much
1888 2014-03-24 20:37:45 <sipa> (they were already disabled at that point)
1889 2014-03-24 20:37:48 <jgarzik> sipa, note, even PGP-signed git commits form a fully functional side chain :)
1890 2014-03-24 20:38:22 <sipa> jgarzik: sure
1891 2014-03-24 20:38:27 <sipa> jgarzik: just not a rate-limited one
1892 2014-03-24 20:38:28 [\\\] has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1893 2014-03-24 20:38:38 <sipa> or one with probabilistic consistency
1894 2014-03-24 20:38:47 <jgarzik> of course :)
1895 2014-03-24 20:39:49 <topynate> maaku: if there's some way of using a DHT for this stuff then i want to explore it. not necessarily with a view to making it mandatory.
1896 2014-03-24 20:40:01 <maaku> topynate: for what stuff?
1897 2014-03-24 20:41:37 <topynate> counterparty-type transactions. transactions with custom semantics, if you want to get fancy.
1898 2014-03-24 20:42:49 hmsimha has joined
1899 2014-03-24 20:43:37 <phantomcircuit> hmm i wonder how much this is because im in a vm
1900 2014-03-24 20:43:40 <phantomcircuit> time to find out
1901 2014-03-24 20:45:08 <topynate> maaku: the question i want to answer is if it's possible to make a transaction with a custom meaning as hard to falsify as a bitcoin transaction, without putting all of its content onto bitcoin's blockchain. i thought a DHT might work, but now i'm not so sure
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1903 2014-03-24 20:46:47 <maaku> topynate: it won't work. you're asking for global consensus based on data pulled from a DHT. no way to make that work
1904 2014-03-24 20:47:01 <phantomcircuit> jgarzik, iirc freenet is basically an attempt at a dht with long term storage and even in their design data disappears after a while if nobody cares about it
1905 2014-03-24 20:48:06 <sipa> phantomcircuit: without hard guarantees
1906 2014-03-24 20:48:12 <shesek> topynate, you can make hard/impossible to falsify by committing to its hash using the bitcoin network
1907 2014-03-24 20:48:33 <shesek> the trickier part is a reliable and durable storage of that data outside the network
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1911 2014-03-24 20:50:02 <topynate> so to use a really simple example, if an address receives counterparty tokens with transaction A, then transfers them out with transaction B, an attacker can try a double spend C, and if the data for transaction B has dropped out, then C will look legal because of A
1912 2014-03-24 20:50:10 * maaku wishes there was kick-ban on the mailing list ...
1913 2014-03-24 20:50:16 <phantomcircuit> test_bitcoin-test_bitcoin.o:/home/phantomcircuit/Work/bitcoin/src/test/../../src/tinyformat.h:672: first defined here
1914 2014-03-24 20:50:19 disident has quit (Quit: disident)
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1916 2014-03-24 20:50:34 <phantomcircuit> bitcoin/src/init.cpp:96: multiple definition of `StartShutdown()'
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1918 2014-03-24 20:50:52 <maaku> topynate: and now you've split the countery-party network based on who has access to B data and who does not
1919 2014-03-24 20:50:59 Kuba1234_ has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
1920 2014-03-24 20:51:18 <topynate> yep
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1923 2014-03-24 20:53:02 <topynate> but if every single counterparty transaction has an OP_RETURN output that consists of some identifying string (i think they use CNTRPRTY or something similar) and a hash, then the counterparty client could know if there were any missing transactions
1924 2014-03-24 20:53:27 <topynate> in fact it could then make a request for those transactions and receive an update to its key-value store
1925 2014-03-24 20:54:21 mrkent has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1926 2014-03-24 20:54:23 <sipa> with horrible performance and reliability
1927 2014-03-24 20:54:39 <sipa> the network knows which data each full node will need
1928 2014-03-24 20:54:46 <sipa> you shouldn't try to shard it or make it lazy
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1932 2014-03-24 20:58:04 <topynate> sipa: right. this is more a way of every counterparty node keeping a synchronized hash table. i mean, it's distributed, but fully replicated. unlike freenet.
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1936 2014-03-24 21:01:05 <phantomcircuit> Lock=mlock(addr, len) == 0 nsec=13538415 counter=1000
1937 2014-03-24 21:01:29 <phantomcircuit> sipa, yeah the issue is running this in a vm
1938 2014-03-24 21:01:42 <phantomcircuit> 13 usec per mlock call isn't great but it's also not 500 usec
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1940 2014-03-24 21:03:12 <jgarzik> phantomcircuit, yeap
1941 2014-03-24 21:03:36 <jgarzik> With financial transactions, any missing bit of data is fatal
1942 2014-03-24 21:03:50 <jgarzik> if you forget one block, you might as well have forgotten them all, in terms of trust
1943 2014-03-24 21:04:21 <phantomcircuit> jgarzik, it's so sad, i love doing all my work in a vm with automatic snapshots
1944 2014-03-24 21:04:25 adam3us has joined
1945 2014-03-24 21:04:29 <phantomcircuit> accidentally rm -rf $HOME
1946 2014-03-24 21:04:33 <phantomcircuit> oh well!
1947 2014-03-24 21:04:36 <phantomcircuit> revert to snapshot
1948 2014-03-24 21:04:56 Cory has joined
1949 2014-03-24 21:04:59 <LarsLarsen> hearn:  "yes. you can just set a bloom filter watching for the magic system-specific prefix bytes in an OP_RETURN"  <-- How quick can you whip that up?
1950 2014-03-24 21:05:19 <sipa> afaik that is just not possible with the current implementation
1951 2014-03-24 21:05:27 <sipa> needs a protocol extension
1952 2014-03-24 21:05:55 shesek has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
1953 2014-03-24 21:06:00 <jgarzik> LarsLarsen, quickly.  all the hipster bitcoin implementations and libs support bloom filters already.
1954 2014-03-24 21:06:04 <ewust> phantomcircuit: i'm also getting the same StartShutdown multiple definition (in a non-vm). did you find a fix?
1955 2014-03-24 21:06:07 <phantomcircuit> sipa, given that bloomfilters are lossy anyways couldn't you just change the behavior of the filter to include op_return
1956 2014-03-24 21:06:17 <LarsLarsen> jgarzik: I heard that around the water cooler
1957 2014-03-24 21:06:27 <phantomcircuit> ewust, i just ignored it since it's after bitcoind/bitcoin-qt are built
1958 2014-03-24 21:06:34 <phantomcircuit> it's the test framework that's broken
1959 2014-03-24 21:06:47 <LarsLarsen> Well if someone whips it up,  it will be made use of
1960 2014-03-24 21:07:03 shesek has joined
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1962 2014-03-24 21:07:10 <phantomcircuit> heh
1963 2014-03-24 21:07:13 shesek has joined
1964 2014-03-24 21:07:19 <ewust> phantomcircuit: ah alright. thanks
1965 2014-03-24 21:07:25 <phantomcircuit> 2014-03-24 21:07:18 UpdateTip: new best=000000000000034a7dedef4a161fa058a2d67a173a90155f3a2fe6fc132e0ebf  height=200000  log2_work=68.741562  tx=7316696  date=2012-09-22 10:45:59 progress=0.136423
1966 2014-03-24 21:07:40 <LarsLarsen> I suppose steal the code from multibit?
1967 2014-03-24 21:07:43 askmike has joined
1968 2014-03-24 21:07:49 <phantomcircuit> i guess it's time to put a copy of an entire datadir onto bittorrent somewhere
1969 2014-03-24 21:08:14 <sipa> phantomcircuit: ...?
1970 2014-03-24 21:08:21 <sipa> there's bootstrap.dat
1971 2014-03-24 21:08:35 <phantomcircuit> sipa, that's what im using
1972 2014-03-24 21:09:24 <phantomcircuit> it's certainly much faster, but it's still longer than the time to download a datadir that i trust :P
1973 2014-03-24 21:09:41 <sipa> why would you trust a datadir from bittorrent?
1974 2014-03-24 21:09:43 <phantomcircuit> (i would of course only do this with one that I made myself and nobody else should ever use it)
1975 2014-03-24 21:09:48 <sipa> ah, sure
1976 2014-03-24 21:10:02 <phantomcircuit> i have like a dozen bitcoind's running now
1977 2014-03-24 21:10:12 <LarsLarsen> lol
1978 2014-03-24 21:10:18 <jgarzik> yeah, locally, I just copy blocks/ and chainstate/
1979 2014-03-24 21:10:24 <phantomcircuit> so it starts to make sense at that point
1980 2014-03-24 21:11:46 Kuba1234 has joined
1981 2014-03-24 21:12:16 <phantomcircuit> sipa, if you're wondering, this is the kind of horrible hacks it takes to get useful performance data for small blocks of code https://github.com/pstratem/bitcoin/compare/ckeyperf
1982 2014-03-24 21:12:55 <LarsLarsen> I'm not concerned specifically with OP_RETURN,  I just want to set up an SPV and watch all the transactions looking for a specific one
1983 2014-03-24 21:12:56 <phantomcircuit> it really only works well if you start at the top and work your way down otherwise the overhead becomes part of what you're measuring...
1984 2014-03-24 21:13:46 <sipa> LarsLarsen: looking for a specific op_return data inclusion is easy
1985 2014-03-24 21:13:47 Kuba1234__ has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
1986 2014-03-24 21:13:57 <sipa> LarsLarsen: just do a filteradd of the data/hash
1987 2014-03-24 21:14:11 <sipa> LarsLarsen: looking for all op_returns with a specific prefix isn't
1988 2014-03-24 21:14:15 <LarsLarsen> sipa: not for me,  I just started reading the code,  and these data structures are impenetrable for me at the moment,  I'm learning the treez skillz still
1989 2014-03-24 21:14:21 <phantomcircuit> LarsLarsen, https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/blob/master/bip-0037.mediawiki
1990 2014-03-24 21:14:40 bebopzzz has joined
1991 2014-03-24 21:14:43 <sipa> LarsLarsen: i mean, it's a single P2P command
1992 2014-03-24 21:14:58 <sipa> LarsLarsen: not saying that the code for it exists or that it is usable in a particular implementation
1993 2014-03-24 21:15:05 <sipa> LarsLarsen: it's just not technically hard to do
1994 2014-03-24 21:15:12 <LarsLarsen> I would like to not look at all transactions if possible
1995 2014-03-24 21:15:18 <LarsLarsen> just the ones that contain the data I'm looking for
1996 2014-03-24 21:15:21 <LarsLarsen> in the body
1997 2014-03-24 21:15:37 <sipa> yes, that's what BIp37 does
1998 2014-03-24 21:15:48 basva_ has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
1999 2014-03-24 21:15:51 <LarsLarsen> awesome,  this saves me a lot of wheel-inventing
2000 2014-03-24 21:15:55 <LarsLarsen> thanks sipa
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2002 2014-03-24 21:16:15 <phantomcircuit> sipa, now he just has to figure out hwo to generate the right bloomfilter
2003 2014-03-24 21:16:16 <phantomcircuit> heh
2004 2014-03-24 21:16:32 <sipa> phantomcircuit: no; start with an empty one and issue a filteradd
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2006 2014-03-24 21:17:01 shesek has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2007 2014-03-24 21:17:01 <LarsLarsen> yeah I know the tools exist to do it,  I just dont understand them.... thanks
2008 2014-03-24 21:17:06 <sipa> probably less data than uploading a filter
2009 2014-03-24 21:17:39 <sipa> (which has better privacy, though)
2010 2014-03-24 21:17:59 <phantomcircuit> sipa, oh hey that's a nice trick
2011 2014-03-24 21:18:37 <phantomcircuit> 2014-03-24 21:18:38 UpdateTip: new best=00000000000000f4fc8808d350d1aa6b92c49194a1487e088463c140cdf98a17  height=235500  log2_work=69.993977  tx=17538042  date=2013-05-10 15:39:12 progress=0.326991
2012 2014-03-24 21:19:07 <phantomcircuit> 680 seconds
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2014 2014-03-24 21:19:27 <sipa> for what?
2015 2014-03-24 21:19:43 halifax has joined
2016 2014-03-24 21:19:47 <phantomcircuit> sipa, so roughly 1 hour to generate the chainstate from a bootstrap.dat file
2017 2014-03-24 21:19:59 <sipa> with which dbcache?
2018 2014-03-24 21:20:03 <phantomcircuit> sipa, to go from block 200000 to 235500 with bootstrap.dat
2019 2014-03-24 21:20:13 <phantomcircuit> sipa, 2048
2020 2014-03-24 21:20:17 <sipa> sounds very slow
2021 2014-03-24 21:21:00 <sipa> i know i've done syncs from scratch in than an hour, after may last year
2022 2014-03-24 21:21:05 <sipa> *less than
2023 2014-03-24 21:21:08 <Apocalyptic> phantomcircuit, what arch are you running this one ?
2024 2014-03-24 21:21:10 <Apocalyptic> *on
2025 2014-03-24 21:21:20 <phantomcircuit> let me start again with a clean slate
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2027 2014-03-24 21:22:59 <phantomcircuit> sipa, is there an upper limit you feel is reasonable for dbcache
2028 2014-03-24 21:23:03 <phantomcircuit> this machine has 32gb of ram
2029 2014-03-24 21:23:12 <sipa> phantomcircuit: i doubt over 2048 is going to gain you much
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2039 2014-03-24 21:33:36 <phantomcircuit> sipa, ah heh, derp txindex=1
2040 2014-03-24 21:34:11 <sipa> oh
2041 2014-03-24 21:34:18 <sipa> that;s not very optimized :)
2042 2014-03-24 21:34:51 <phantomcircuit> it would probably still be faster to bittorrent a trusted chainstate though
2043 2014-03-24 21:35:02 <phantomcircuit> (especially since these are almost all on 10gbps lines)
2044 2014-03-24 21:35:58 Guest68802 has joined
2045 2014-03-24 21:36:06 <phantomcircuit> 2014-03-24 21:34:54 UpdateTip: new best=0000000000000318767c948783cc082e8cd1b58689d5329842097e5e882861fd  height=191200  log2_work=68.455523  tx=5378017  date=2012-07-28 12:46:31 progress=0.100265
2046 2014-03-24 21:36:06 <phantomcircuit> 2014-03-24 21:30:38 UpdateTip: new best=00000000839a8e6886ab5951d76f411475428afc90947ee320161bbf18eb6048  height=1  log2_work=33.000022  tx=2  date=2009-01-09 02:54:25 progress=0.000000
2047 2014-03-24 21:36:12 Guest68802 is now known as oystien
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2049 2014-03-24 21:36:38 <phantomcircuit> ((54-38)+4*60)*10
2050 2014-03-24 21:36:41 <phantomcircuit> 42 minutes
2051 2014-03-24 21:36:52 <phantomcircuit> that's better but not massively better
2052 2014-03-24 21:37:36 <phantomcircuit> (well i mean it is but it's not 15 seconds)
2053 2014-03-24 21:37:52 ItSANgo has joined
2054 2014-03-24 21:41:00 <hearn> sipa: why would it not work?
2055 2014-03-24 21:41:06 <hearn> sipa: bloom filters are matched against all data elements
2056 2014-03-24 21:41:54 Grouver has quit (Quit:  Want to be different? Try HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <-)
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2059 2014-03-24 21:45:16 <phantomcircuit> hearn, yeah he changed what he was saying
2060 2014-03-24 21:45:28 <phantomcircuit> also can i just say that your name is confusing the shit out of me
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2071 2014-03-24 21:55:38 <phantomcircuit> sipa, cpu usage seems to be 100% 90% of the time and then 130% 8% of the time and ~80% the remaining 2%
2072 2014-03-24 21:55:48 <phantomcircuit> it seems odd that it would drop to 2%
2073 2014-03-24 21:56:01 <phantomcircuit> i wonder if that's leveldb reorganizing
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2079 2014-03-24 22:01:03 <sipa> phantomcircuit: probably a sync/flush of the database yes
2080 2014-03-24 22:01:13 TheButterZone has joined
2081 2014-03-24 22:01:23 <TheButterZone> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=528766.0;topicseen Hiring - Bitcoin developer, full time, >$100K
2082 2014-03-24 22:01:41 MoALTz has quit (Quit: Leaving)
2083 2014-03-24 22:01:53 <phantomcircuit> 2014-03-24 22:01:50 UpdateTip: new best=0000000000000001ae8c72a0b0c301f67e3afca10e819efa9041e458e9bd7e40  height=279000  log2_work=75.483466  tx=30549816  date=2014-01-06 22:31:11 progress=0.569495
2084 2014-03-24 22:02:17 hearn has quit (Quit: hearn)
2085 2014-03-24 22:02:51 <TheButterZone> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=528928.0;topicseen [Hiring] Urgent opening for Lead Technologist - Bitcoin, Cryptocurrency
2086 2014-03-24 22:03:02 zxcvbnm has joined
2087 2014-03-24 22:03:07 <phantomcircuit> (61-30)*60 + (50-38) * 100/56.9 ~= 31 minutes
2088 2014-03-24 22:03:10 <sipa> TheButterZone: don't spam, please
2089 2014-03-24 22:03:17 <phantomcircuit> sipa, ok this is looking to be about half the time
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2106 2014-03-24 22:13:59 <phantomcircuit> sipa, reindex isn't any faster than bootstrap.dat is it?
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2113 2014-03-24 22:15:22 <sipa> phantomcircuit: apart from copying data, it's exactly the same
2114 2014-03-24 22:15:31 dims_ has joined
2115 2014-03-24 22:15:51 GuySoft has joined
2116 2014-03-24 22:16:37 <GuySoft> hey all, can anyone tell me where does ./autogen.sh comes from in the release process for OS X here? https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/master/doc/release-process.md
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2121 2014-03-24 22:20:26 <pigeons> GuySoft: autogen.sh is part of the git repo.
2122 2014-03-24 22:20:30 raid5 has joined
2123 2014-03-24 22:21:02 <phantomcircuit> sipa, ps https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/3949
2124 2014-03-24 22:24:03 <sipa> GuySoft: autogen.sh is in the repo
2125 2014-03-24 22:25:07 <sipa> and it seems pigeons said something i should have read before answering
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2129 2014-03-24 22:29:57 <GuySoft> pigeons, sipa ah ok, I see it, its juat autoconf. I am helping to release yet another coin, and they removed that script (or forked from a different location)
2130 2014-03-24 22:30:20 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|GuySoft: If they forked at 0.8.x or earlier, they don't use autotools
2131 2014-03-24 22:30:40 rdbell has joined
2132 2014-03-24 22:30:43 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Check doc/build-unix
2133 2014-03-24 22:32:25 lolstate has joined
2134 2014-03-24 22:33:11 <Guest50807> Hello devs,  can u help me sync past block 279916 please?  Previous attempt stopped too at 9 weeks from present.
2135 2014-03-24 22:33:19 <GuySoft> michagogo|cloud, im doing the mac builds.. i am a linux dev but eventually i always end up doing the mac builds because people hate those
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2137 2014-03-24 22:33:30 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|GuySoft: Ah
2138 2014-03-24 22:33:33 <Guest50807> I use bitcoin core 0.9.0
2139 2014-03-24 22:33:36 banghouse has joined
2140 2014-03-24 22:33:37 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Check doc/build-osx, then
2141 2014-03-24 22:33:47 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|(and good luck)
2142 2014-03-24 22:34:03 <GuySoft> michagogo|cloud, which makes me wonder how bitcoin foundation managed to get a developer key from apple who are anti-bitcoin by policy
2143 2014-03-24 22:34:41 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|GuySoft: It's not an iOS developer key :P
2144 2014-03-24 22:34:58 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Gatekeeper keys are handed out to literally anyone who can show who/what they are
2145 2014-03-24 22:35:12 <maaku> devs, am I reading main.cpp right that relaying a non-standard tx will get you banned?
2146 2014-03-24 22:36:00 <maaku> or rather, I'm not sure what effect state.DoS(0, ...) would have
2147 2014-03-24 22:36:04 <Luke-Jr> GuySoft: this is bitcoin dev, not altcoin dev
2148 2014-03-24 22:36:08 <maaku> (why not just error(...) ?)
2149 2014-03-24 22:36:24 <Guest50807> debug.log says warning large valid fork found at 279916
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2151 2014-03-24 22:37:56 buhbuh has quit (Quit: Page closed)
2152 2014-03-24 22:38:35 <GuySoft> Luke-Jr, yes, sorry about that. I started with a bitcoin-repo specific question.
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2155 2014-03-24 22:39:58 <GuySoft> Its just kinda crazy, i had to link 3 different cryptocoin repos to compile decent documentation on how to build for mac. Evreyone is forking and rarely merges docs
2156 2014-03-24 22:40:49 <maaku> GuySoft: off-topic
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2159 2014-03-24 22:43:40 <LarsLarsen> all those things are forked from 12 months ago... I found a diff from coingen.io
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2194 2014-03-24 23:33:38 <olalonde> anyone knows which clients implement HD wallet at the moment?
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2196 2014-03-24 23:35:22 <shadders> having trouble getting bitcoind to play nicely with bitcoinj using wire protocol.  I'm connecting then running through the ver/verack sequence.  Then send getblocks using genesis block hash.  I get back an inv message with 500 block inv items and I've verified the first few block hashes are correct using blockchain.info.  I then send  getdata using those same inventory items and bitcoind dutifully sends me 500 block messages.  But each
2197 2014-03-24 23:35:23 <shadders> message is starts with 0x02 and rest is padded with 0x00 bytes.  Any ideas?
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2199 2014-03-24 23:36:09 Rawdawg- has left ()
2200 2014-03-24 23:36:48 <shadders> The blocks it sends spontaneously (i.e. current blocks) are properly formed.  Just not the ones I request with getdata
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2206 2014-03-24 23:46:09 <olalonde> hmmm anyone knows why i keep getting rpc errors when  i use bitcoind locally?
2207 2014-03-24 23:46:18 <olalonde> authorization error
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2212 2014-03-24 23:48:31 <rdponticelli> olalonde: Did you change the bitcoind.conf after launching the daemon?
2213 2014-03-24 23:48:45 forrestv has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net)
2214 2014-03-24 23:48:48 <rdponticelli> Or did you launched it with -datadir?
2215 2014-03-24 23:49:21 melvster has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2216 2014-03-24 23:49:28 <olalonde> with -datadir
2217 2014-03-24 23:49:31 <olalonde> no
2218 2014-03-24 23:50:13 <olalonde> bitcoind -datadir='/data/bitcoin' -daemon
2219 2014-03-24 23:50:15 ralphtheninja has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2220 2014-03-24 23:50:33 <olalonde> rpcuser=user
2221 2014-03-24 23:50:33 <olalonde> rpcpassword=pass
2222 2014-03-24 23:50:33 <olalonde> server=1
2223 2014-03-24 23:50:33 <olalonde> txindex=1
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2225 2014-03-24 23:50:39 <olalonde> rpcallowip=127.0.0.1
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2227 2014-03-24 23:50:45 <olalonde> rpcport=8332
2228 2014-03-24 23:50:47 <olalonde> that's it
2229 2014-03-24 23:51:04 <rdponticelli> Are you launching the cli also with the -datadir  option?
2230 2014-03-24 23:51:42 <olalonde> bitcoind -rcpuser=user -rpcpassword=pass getinfo
2231 2014-03-24 23:51:42 <olalonde> error: incorrect rpcuser or rpcpassword (authorization failed)
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2233 2014-03-24 23:51:43 <olalonde> no
2234 2014-03-24 23:51:55 <olalonde> didn't know I had to :P
2235 2014-03-24 23:52:15 <olalonde> oh it works :P
2236 2014-03-24 23:52:18 <rdponticelli> Well, that way it would read the same conf
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2240 2014-03-24 23:53:37 <olalonde> right
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2243 2014-03-24 23:54:45 <olalonde> but kind of weird i cant connect with the rpcuser and rpcpassword flags :(
2244 2014-03-24 23:54:50 oleganza has joined
2245 2014-03-24 23:55:33 <olalonde> ohh, it works now.. maybe bitcoind was still initializing
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