1 2014-03-26 00:00:04 <olalonde> denisx: hmm ubuntu although I doubt it's related to download speed issues
   2 2014-03-26 00:00:07 <Luke-Jr> sipa: are we using "side chains" to refer to reorg branches now?
   3 2014-03-26 00:00:17 <Luke-Jr> sipa: this will be confusing with pegged "side chains"
   4 2014-03-26 00:00:21 <sipa> oh, right
   5 2014-03-26 00:00:23 <sipa> meh
   6 2014-03-26 00:00:27 <sipa> inactive chains?
   7 2014-03-26 00:00:30 <davout> on a sidenote, it doesn't sound very logical that a reorg'd block would show with 0 confirmations
   8 2014-03-26 00:00:36 <denisx> olalonde: no, I think it is disk io related
   9 2014-03-26 00:00:39 <Luke-Jr> sipa: dead branches? :P
  10 2014-03-26 00:00:44 <sipa> davout: how so? it doesn't confirm anything?
  11 2014-03-26 00:00:45 <sipa> Luke-Jr: good!
  12 2014-03-26 00:01:00 <Luke-Jr> davout: read it as "depth in main chain"
  13 2014-03-26 00:01:10 <sipa> yeah, that's what it's called in the code
  14 2014-03-26 00:01:10 <Luke-Jr> actually, it should *probably* be some negative number..
  15 2014-03-26 00:01:14 <sipa> GetDepthInMainChain()
  16 2014-03-26 00:01:23 <sipa> well, we're using -1 confirmation for 'conflicted' now
  17 2014-03-26 00:01:30 <olalonde> denisx: ah yeah maybe… I'm running bitcoind in a docker container actually
  18 2014-03-26 00:01:36 <davout> sipa: well, you said the tip was reported with one because the latest block counted as a confirmation for itself, technically a reorg'd block would count for a confirmation for itself too if you follow the same reasoning
  19 2014-03-26 00:01:38 <Luke-Jr> sipa: <0, anyway
  20 2014-03-26 00:01:44 <Luke-Jr> sipa: I don't think we need to guarantee it is exactly -1
  21 2014-03-26 00:02:01 <davout> <=
  22 2014-03-26 00:02:07 <davout> will do fine
  23 2014-03-26 00:02:12 <sipa> davout: well, depends whether you're talking about the block tree or the block chain, if you want to discuss semantics
  24 2014-03-26 00:02:17 <denisx> olalonde: on my mac I put the chainstate in a ramdisk to speed up catching the latest block if I am some weeks behind
  25 2014-03-26 00:02:33 <sipa> denisx: use -dbcache=<largenumber> instead; way faster than ramdisk
  26 2014-03-26 00:02:38 pierce has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  27 2014-03-26 00:02:39 <davout> Luke-Jr: the depth-in-main-chain way to explain it sounds more self-consistent :-)
  28 2014-03-26 00:02:45 <sipa> davout: in the block tree, you're right, and that could be well-defined
  29 2014-03-26 00:02:56 edcba has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
  30 2014-03-26 00:03:00 <sipa> davout: but we generally don't care about the whole tree, only the currently-active chain in it
  31 2014-03-26 00:03:05 <olalonde> denisx: how do you do that? mount the data directory in a ram filesystem?
  32 2014-03-26 00:03:15 <denisx> sipa: sure, because I think a ramdisk speeds up the writes
  33 2014-03-26 00:03:15 edcba has joined
  34 2014-03-26 00:03:20 <davout> sipa Luke-Jr thanks a lot for the information, exactly what i was looking for
  35 2014-03-26 00:03:21 <denisx> reads are cached anyway
  36 2014-03-26 00:03:24 <sipa> denisx: and dbcache avoids the writes altogether
  37 2014-03-26 00:03:27 Krellan_ has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
  38 2014-03-26 00:03:32 <olalonde> not sure i have enough ram for that :P
  39 2014-03-26 00:03:33 <davout> tty'all later <3
  40 2014-03-26 00:03:33 <denisx> sipa: ok, will try that next time
  41 2014-03-26 00:03:38 <denisx> olalonde: what sipa says
  42 2014-03-26 00:03:42 <sipa> denisx: with a ramdisk you still need to serialize and deserialize all the time
  43 2014-03-26 00:03:57 pierce has joined
  44 2014-03-26 00:03:59 <olalonde> ah, good
  45 2014-03-26 00:04:44 <denisx> sipa: but how do I start the gui version with that?
  46 2014-03-26 00:04:49 ralphtheninja has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
  47 2014-03-26 00:04:59 <Luke-Jr> davout: again though, note that reorg'd chains will only return IF you see them before the current chain
  48 2014-03-26 00:05:06 <sipa> denisx: same way?
  49 2014-03-26 00:05:14 <Luke-Jr> davout: the node will ignore reorg'd chains if it already knows a better one
  50 2014-03-26 00:05:15 ninsei_ has joined
  51 2014-03-26 00:05:20 <Apocalyptic> obviously
  52 2014-03-26 00:05:22 <sipa> denisx: put dbcache=1000 in your bitcoin.conf, or start with -dbcache=1000 on the command line
  53 2014-03-26 00:05:32 <sipa> denisx: or whatever number you like of course
  54 2014-03-26 00:05:33 <denisx> sipa: ah, ok
  55 2014-03-26 00:06:00 raid5 has joined
  56 2014-03-26 00:06:11 <davout> Luke-Jr: yeah i understand, that doesn't really matter in my case, I simply want to be able to take reorgs into account should i encounter one, as in if i record a block i want to come back at it after the next block and be able to tell if i should keep it or throw it away
  57 2014-03-26 00:06:54 <Luke-Jr> k
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  63 2014-03-26 00:09:09 <Jimmy06> how do I get the OP_CHECKSIG of a tx
  64 2014-03-26 00:09:24 <Luke-Jr> Jimmy06: what?
  65 2014-03-26 00:09:26 rdymac- is now known as rdymac
  66 2014-03-26 00:09:58 <sipa> a transaction has typically multiple
  67 2014-03-26 00:10:07 <olalonde> getinfo doesn't seem to report any new blocks when i launch bitcoind with dbcache=1000, is this normal?
  68 2014-03-26 00:10:23 <sipa> olalonde: wait
  69 2014-03-26 00:10:27 <olalonde> oh nevermind, server was initializing I guess
  70 2014-03-26 00:11:05 <Jimmy06> Luke-Jr: I need to find something called the OP_CHECKSIG of the genesis block
  71 2014-03-26 00:11:11 <sipa> Jimmy06: you won't
  72 2014-03-26 00:11:17 <Luke-Jr> Jimmy06: blocks don't have opcodes
  73 2014-03-26 00:11:18 oleganza has quit (Quit: oleganza)
  74 2014-03-26 00:11:28 <sipa> oh wait, there should be one in its output
  75 2014-03-26 00:11:34 <phantomcircuit> davout, what for?
  76 2014-03-26 00:11:44 <Luke-Jr> and I would academically argue that the genesis block has zero transactions ;)
  77 2014-03-26 00:12:00 <phantomcircuit> Luke-Jr, heh
  78 2014-03-26 00:12:03 <phantomcircuit> technically correct
  79 2014-03-26 00:12:11 <phantomcircuit> THE ONLY KIND OF CORRECT
  80 2014-03-26 00:12:14 <Jimmy06> 04678AFDB0FE5548271967F1A67130B7105CD6A828E03909A67962E0EA1F61DEB649F6BC3F4CEF38C4F35504E51EC112DE5C384DF7BA0B8D578A4C702B6BF11D5F is Bitcoins
  81 2014-03-26 00:12:25 <sipa> Jimmy06: a block contains a list of transactions (the first one being special), every transaction has inputs and outputs
  82 2014-03-26 00:12:30 <Luke-Jr> merkleroot=4a5e1e4baab89f3a32518a88c31bc87f618f76673e2cc77ab2127b7afdeda33b means 0 transactions :D
  83 2014-03-26 00:12:38 <Jimmy06> genesis block only 1 in
  84 2014-03-26 00:12:42 <davout> phantomcircuit: keep track of the blocks in which unspent outs we consider ours appear
  85 2014-03-26 00:13:02 <Jimmy06> that being 50 un-spendable coins
  86 2014-03-26 00:13:34 nym has joined
  87 2014-03-26 00:13:43 <davout> phantomcircuit: comparing the DB-balance and the actual balance is tricky because it keeps moving all the time, so it's hard to do if you want to be exact
  88 2014-03-26 00:13:52 <Jimmy06> Now if you look here you'll see at line 24 they define an OP_CHECKSIG https://github.com/bitpay/bitcore/blob/master/networks.js
  89 2014-03-26 00:14:11 <davout> so i figured i'd compare balances at a certain block height instead of comparing balances at a certain point o time
  90 2014-03-26 00:14:21 <sipa> Luke-Jr: or, alternatively, hashPrev = 000000000019d6689c085ae165831e934ff763ae46a2a6c172b3f1b60a8ce26f means "first block"
  91 2014-03-26 00:14:39 <davout> which, if you think about it is simply taking into account the fact that the blockchain *is* the reference timer :D
  92 2014-03-26 00:14:43 <Luke-Jr> sipa: hm!
  93 2014-03-26 00:15:02 <sipa> Luke-Jr: which actually makes sense, as the genesis block is never even validated
  94 2014-03-26 00:15:03 <Luke-Jr> sipa: won't that break the difficulty algorithms, though? :P
  95 2014-03-26 00:15:08 <sipa> hmm, perhaps!
  96 2014-03-26 00:15:29 <Luke-Jr> and halving
  97 2014-03-26 00:16:01 <Luke-Jr> s/break/make unnecessarily confusing/
  98 2014-03-26 00:16:12 <sipa> Jimmy06: what are you actually looking for?
  99 2014-03-26 00:16:22 <Jimmy06> how they got that hex string
 100 2014-03-26 00:16:28 <Luke-Jr> plus, the merkleroot way, you can say bitcoin had ZERO premining :P
 101 2014-03-26 00:16:48 <Jimmy06> I'm attempting to set that up for an alt coin and cant work out where they got that from
 102 2014-03-26 00:16:50 * Luke-Jr suspects Jimmy06 is trying to do "homework" made by a less-than-competent instructor
 103 2014-03-26 00:16:57 <Luke-Jr> oh, worse. scamcoiner.
 104 2014-03-26 00:17:02 <Jimmy06> nah
 105 2014-03-26 00:17:06 <Jimmy06> no scamcoins :)
 106 2014-03-26 00:17:10 <Luke-Jr> sigh
 107 2014-03-26 00:17:34 <Jimmy06> cant be a scam if it acutally has a market when the coin is setup right ? :D
 108 2014-03-26 00:17:48 <sipa> i'd argue that without a market, it can't be a scam
 109 2014-03-26 00:17:59 <sipa> but anyway, altcoins or homework questions are off topic here
 110 2014-03-26 00:18:01 <sipa> scam or not
 111 2014-03-26 00:18:11 <Jimmy06> right but I havnt asked about that have I
 112 2014-03-26 00:18:11 <denisx> every currency is a scam
 113 2014-03-26 00:18:24 <Jimmy06> I asked where they got that from
 114 2014-03-26 00:18:36 EagleTM has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 115 2014-03-26 00:18:41 <sipa> Jimmy06: no offence, but if you actually are serious about doing something useful with an altcoin, at least understand bitcoin first
 116 2014-03-26 00:18:51 <sipa> Jimmy06: and this basic question doesn't belong here
 117 2014-03-26 00:19:11 <Jimmy06> how can I understand it your avoding the topic LOL
 118 2014-03-26 00:19:15 <Jimmy06> catch 22 ?
 119 2014-03-26 00:19:25 <Luke-Jr> read the code and docs
 120 2014-03-26 00:19:34 <Jimmy06> what like this https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/OP_CHECKSIG
 121 2014-03-26 00:19:36 <sipa> by studying the code, reading the wiki, reading stackexchange, reading the whitepaper
 122 2014-03-26 00:19:49 <sipa> if you have specific questions left, i'll be happy to answer
 123 2014-03-26 00:19:58 <sipa> but we can't explain you bitcoin from beginning to end here
 124 2014-03-26 00:20:39 <Jimmy06> I wasn't asking for a Degree from you :)
 125 2014-03-26 00:20:58 <Luke-Jr> making an altcoin requires more than a degree
 126 2014-03-26 00:21:03 <Luke-Jr> it requires you to actually understand things
 127 2014-03-26 00:21:08 sipa has left ()
 128 2014-03-26 00:21:12 <Jimmy06> Alt coin is running and this is indirectly nothing to do with it
 129 2014-03-26 00:22:11 olalonde has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
 130 2014-03-26 00:22:37 <Jimmy06> right ok script pubkey is what I'm looking for
 131 2014-03-26 00:22:46 <phantomcircuit> davout, so this is for a shared wallet?
 132 2014-03-26 00:22:51 <Jimmy06> thanks :)
 133 2014-03-26 00:22:55 <Jimmy06> lol
 134 2014-03-26 00:23:08 <Apocalyptic> phantomcircuit, it's probably for bitcoin-central
 135 2014-03-26 00:23:25 Krellan__ has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
 136 2014-03-26 00:23:28 <phantomcircuit> Apocalyptic, that's my assumption, but I want to be really clear before i suggest anything
 137 2014-03-26 00:23:50 <phantomcircuit> 280k encrypted keys
 138 2014-03-26 00:23:56 <phantomcircuit> only 720k more to go
 139 2014-03-26 00:24:07 <davout> phantomcircuit: yep
 140 2014-03-26 00:26:04 <phantomcircuit> davout, then just keep track of which block a transaction was in and which block was the newest tip
 141 2014-03-26 00:26:56 <phantomcircuit> or if you want to be super lazy
 142 2014-03-26 00:27:02 <davout> what do you mean by "the newest tip" ?
 143 2014-03-26 00:27:09 da2ce7_laptop has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
 144 2014-03-26 00:27:12 aegis- is now known as aegis
 145 2014-03-26 00:27:19 <phantomcircuit> just call listtransactions "*" 2^32
 146 2014-03-26 00:27:26 <phantomcircuit> and do a 1:1 comparison with your database
 147 2014-03-26 00:27:37 <phantomcircuit> it sounds retarded but it's actually not bad
 148 2014-03-26 00:27:57 rdymac has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 149 2014-03-26 00:28:04 <phantomcircuit> just make sure you have a writethrough cache
 150 2014-03-26 00:28:18 <Apocalyptic> <phantomcircuit> just call listtransactions "*" 2^32 // is that better than listsinceblock ?
 151 2014-03-26 00:28:47 <midnightmagic> :-(
 152 2014-03-26 00:28:53 <midnightmagic> yeahhh..   saw that coming.
 153 2014-03-26 00:28:58 EagleTM has joined
 154 2014-03-26 00:28:59 <Apocalyptic> and regularly updating the checkpointblock (which you choose so old that it's safe)
 155 2014-03-26 00:29:00 <phantomcircuit> Apocalyptic, you dont have to keep track of orphans that way
 156 2014-03-26 00:29:12 olalonde has joined
 157 2014-03-26 00:29:17 <phantomcircuit> yeah yeah
 158 2014-03-26 00:29:18 olalonde has quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
 159 2014-03-26 00:29:21 <phantomcircuit> you can do it either way
 160 2014-03-26 00:29:38 olalonde has joined
 161 2014-03-26 00:29:43 <phantomcircuit> but realistically listtransactions is fairly quick even when you have a ridiculous number of transactions
 162 2014-03-26 00:30:21 <phantomcircuit> im assuming davout is running this on a real server with enough ram to completely avoid swapping
 163 2014-03-26 00:30:22 <davout> phantomcircuit: that would work if all your transactions are in the same wallet
 164 2014-03-26 00:30:38 <davout> phantomcircuit: i actually don't use bitcoind that much
 165 2014-03-26 00:30:49 <phantomcircuit> davout, it works if you have multiple wallets also...
 166 2014-03-26 00:30:58 benrcole has joined
 167 2014-03-26 00:31:03 <davout> phantomcircuit: how would i do a 1-1 check on txes?
 168 2014-03-26 00:31:08 Krellan_ has joined
 169 2014-03-26 00:31:24 rdymac has joined
 170 2014-03-26 00:31:31 <phantomcircuit> davout, bitcoind keeps transactions in the wallet even if they're re organized out
 171 2014-03-26 00:32:25 banghouse has joined
 172 2014-03-26 00:32:33 <Apocalyptic> <davout> phantomcircuit: i actually don't use bitcoind that much // *fear* may I ask what you do use ?
 173 2014-03-26 00:32:46 <davout> phantomcircuit: i'm using master public keys to generate addies, these get rotated from time to time
 174 2014-03-26 00:32:48 <phantomcircuit> dont say bitcoin ruby
 175 2014-03-26 00:32:54 <Apocalyptic> ^ just don't
 176 2014-03-26 00:32:56 <davout> phantomcircuit: why not ?
 177 2014-03-26 00:33:02 aynstein has joined
 178 2014-03-26 00:33:02 <phantomcircuit> oh boy
 179 2014-03-26 00:33:26 <phantomcircuit> davout, the only client which is compatible 100% with the reference client is the reference client
 180 2014-03-26 00:33:42 <phantomcircuit> for sending bitcoins use whatever you want
 181 2014-03-26 00:33:50 <phantomcircuit> for receiving bitcoins use the reference client
 182 2014-03-26 00:33:57 <davout> phantomcircuit Apocalyptic maybe you guys should stop assuming that i do things i didn't say i did :-)
 183 2014-03-26 00:34:18 <Apocalyptic> davout, it's not funny, you know I have coins @b-c
 184 2014-03-26 00:34:21 <phantomcircuit> there is really no reason not to use bitcoind
 185 2014-03-26 00:34:25 windy1024 has quit (Quit: windy1024)
 186 2014-03-26 00:34:31 <Luke-Jr> phantomcircuit: yes there is
 187 2014-03-26 00:34:39 <phantomcircuit> Luke-Jr, like what?
 188 2014-03-26 00:34:43 <Luke-Jr> like it doesn't scale
 189 2014-03-26 00:34:46 <Apocalyptic> lol
 190 2014-03-26 00:34:49 <Luke-Jr> like we don't recommend big exchanges use it
 191 2014-03-26 00:34:58 <davout> i use bitcoind as a gateway to the network, and bitcoin-ruby as a connection to it, the fact that bitcoind uses eventmachine is pretty sweet to monitor all the flow of passing transactions
 192 2014-03-26 00:35:07 MaxSan has joined
 193 2014-03-26 00:35:07 <Apocalyptic> Luke-Jr, so what do you recommend big exchanges ?
 194 2014-03-26 00:35:08 <phantomcircuit> Luke-Jr, who doesn't recommend big exchanges use it???
 195 2014-03-26 00:35:13 <davout> phantomcircuit: there are tons of reasons not to use bitcoind
 196 2014-03-26 00:35:18 <Luke-Jr> Apocalyptic: there is no public software for that
 197 2014-03-26 00:35:19 <Apocalyptic> "write your own software bro, just like Tux" ?
 198 2014-03-26 00:35:30 <Luke-Jr> phantomcircuit: anyone?
 199 2014-03-26 00:35:58 <davout> phantomcircuit Apocalyptic for example the 'accounts' functionality that was recommended a while ago didn't scale at all and even had ugly rounding bugs
 200 2014-03-26 00:36:01 benrcole has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
 201 2014-03-26 00:36:13 <davout> bottom line, don't trust a single piece of software, ever
 202 2014-03-26 00:36:13 <Luke-Jr> (and is being removed)
 203 2014-03-26 00:36:20 <Apocalyptic> davout, the fact accounts are buggy is well known
 204 2014-03-26 00:36:22 <phantomcircuit> davout, nobody should be using the accounts functionality for anything ever
 205 2014-03-26 00:36:31 <Apocalyptic> I never see someone recommending relying on it tbh
 206 2014-03-26 00:36:38 <davout> Apocalyptic: it's well known because i suffered from it in 2010-2011
 207 2014-03-26 00:36:40 <Luke-Jr> Apocalyptic: accounts aren't buggy, just not easy to backup and conflict with B-Qt :p
 208 2014-03-26 00:36:46 <phantomcircuit> i've been telling people not to use it for a loong time
 209 2014-03-26 00:36:58 <phantomcircuit> Luke-Jr, they're effectively impossible to backup
 210 2014-03-26 00:37:02 <davout> Apocalyptic phantomcircuit i'm talking 2010-early 2011 here guys
 211 2014-03-26 00:37:02 <Luke-Jr> right
 212 2014-03-26 00:37:20 <phantomcircuit> davout, yeah and that was years ago
 213 2014-03-26 00:37:22 banghouse has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
 214 2014-03-26 00:37:29 <phantomcircuit> nobody has recommended that seriously for a long time
 215 2014-03-26 00:37:34 <phantomcircuit> it's 2014
 216 2014-03-26 00:37:34 * aynstein counts on fingers
 217 2014-03-26 00:37:37 <davout> phantomcircuit: well, the lesson to not rely on bitcoind stuck :-)
 218 2014-03-26 00:37:49 MaxSan has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 219 2014-03-26 00:37:52 <phantomcircuit> davout, 0.6.x couldn't handle the volume
 220 2014-03-26 00:37:58 <phantomcircuit> 0.7.x was better but still
 221 2014-03-26 00:38:13 <phantomcircuit> 0.8.x will handle a very large wallet with minimal difficulty
 222 2014-03-26 00:38:18 <davout> phantomcircuit: well yes, it's 2014 and backing up a wallet reliably is still not easy with bitcoind
 223 2014-03-26 00:38:26 <davout> the keypool is merely shifting the problem
 224 2014-03-26 00:38:36 <phantomcircuit> there is still at least one edge case in the wallet that im aware of
 225 2014-03-26 00:38:43 <davout> the correct solution obviously being deterministic wallets
 226 2014-03-26 00:38:45 <phantomcircuit> but unless you're doing something ridiculous it wont be an issue
 227 2014-03-26 00:38:57 shadders has joined
 228 2014-03-26 00:39:02 <Apocalyptic> phantomcircuit, care to disclose ?
 229 2014-03-26 00:39:03 <warren> saivann: around?
 230 2014-03-26 00:39:14 <phantomcircuit> davout, i personally think hd wallets are currently more risk than they are worth
 231 2014-03-26 00:39:15 <Luke-Jr> davout: you *could* use pycoin and import HD wallet keys to bitcoind manually
 232 2014-03-26 00:39:17 <davout> phantomcircuit: not to mention that bitcoind is a pain to deploy
 233 2014-03-26 00:39:22 <Luke-Jr> not necessarily the best idea, but fwiw
 234 2014-03-26 00:39:33 <phantomcircuit> Apocalyptic, it's an edge case in IsConfirmed
 235 2014-03-26 00:39:41 <davout> phantomcircuit: everyone has an opinion, i'd be interested in the supporting argument
 236 2014-03-26 00:39:55 <Luke-Jr> phantomcircuit: the one 0.9.0 fixed?
 237 2014-03-26 00:40:04 <phantomcircuit> if you try to spend your own unconfirmed outputs you'll end up in code that is O(!n) or something
 238 2014-03-26 00:40:06 <davout> Luke-Jr: i use the electrum-style mpk's
 239 2014-03-26 00:40:11 <phantomcircuit> maybe it's O(2^n)
 240 2014-03-26 00:40:14 <phantomcircuit> i cant remember exactly
 241 2014-03-26 00:40:17 <phantomcircuit> it's horribly slow
 242 2014-03-26 00:40:30 <phantomcircuit> Luke-Jr, was that fixed?
 243 2014-03-26 00:40:36 <Luke-Jr> phantomcircuit: vSpent stuff, right?
 244 2014-03-26 00:40:37 <phantomcircuit> i still have an open pr about it i think
 245 2014-03-26 00:41:01 <phantomcircuit> Luke-Jr, no it's the vtxPrev stuff
 246 2014-03-26 00:41:14 <Luke-Jr> anyhow, you shouldn't spend even your own unconfirmed change
 247 2014-03-26 00:41:24 da2ce7_laptop has joined
 248 2014-03-26 00:41:34 <phantomcircuit> oh maybe that was fixed as part of the malleability things
 249 2014-03-26 00:41:39 <phantomcircuit> that would make sense
 250 2014-03-26 00:41:59 HaltingState has quit (Quit: Leaving)
 251 2014-03-26 00:42:12 <davout> Luke-Jr: i tried an hour ago, wondered why bitcoind wouldn't let me do it
 252 2014-03-26 00:43:26 MaxSan has joined
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 255 2014-03-26 00:44:33 HaltingState has joined
 256 2014-03-26 00:48:06 <saivann> warren: yep
 257 2014-03-26 00:48:22 <warren> saivann: my intern is reading your developer documentation
 258 2014-03-26 00:49:12 Ghaleon_ has joined
 259 2014-03-26 00:49:24 <warren> saivann: she intends to work on end-user documentation, hopefully for the same site
 260 2014-03-26 00:49:29 agricocb has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
 261 2014-03-26 00:49:50 bbrian has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
 262 2014-03-26 00:50:04 <warren> saivann: http://bitcoindev.us.to/en/developer-guide  this is your work in progress right?
 263 2014-03-26 00:50:19 benkay has joined
 264 2014-03-26 00:50:21 <saivann> warren: If she wants to help, she's welcome: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=511876.0
 265 2014-03-26 00:50:27 Rawdawg-2 has joined
 266 2014-03-26 00:50:34 Rawdawg-2 has left ()
 267 2014-03-26 00:50:47 <saivann> warren: Most of it is not written by me, and is still a draft. Technical mistakes are possible at this point
 268 2014-03-26 00:51:07 <phantomcircuit> Luke-Jr, yeah you're right it was fixed
 269 2014-03-26 00:51:18 <phantomcircuit> although something about the way it's fixed feels a bit off
 270 2014-03-26 00:51:21 <phantomcircuit> but im not sure why
 271 2014-03-26 00:51:25 <phantomcircuit> shrug
 272 2014-03-26 00:51:40 Krellan_ has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
 273 2014-03-26 00:51:50 <phantomcircuit> davout, with that fixed there isn't a good reason not to use bitcoind for an exchange
 274 2014-03-26 00:52:00 <phantomcircuit> Luke-Jr, unless there is something other than performance that is an issue
 275 2014-03-26 00:53:34 <Luke-Jr> saivann: this document seems to talk a lot about some slow data rate (milli-bits)
 276 2014-03-26 00:54:17 espringe has quit (Quit: espringe)
 277 2014-03-26 00:54:37 <davout> phantomcircuit: the accounts stuff ?
 278 2014-03-26 00:54:47 <warren> saivann: ok thanks, glad you wrote that in detail
 279 2014-03-26 00:55:41 Chief_Panda has joined
 280 2014-03-26 00:55:42 <saivann> Luke-Jr: We're going to use "satoshis" instead, someone should fix that, there's an issue in my git repository about that
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 284 2014-03-26 00:56:33 <phantomcircuit> davout, you dont use the accounts
 285 2014-03-26 00:56:35 <davout> the only valid reason to use bitcoind for an exchange is to hear about incoming transactions, assuming broadcasting payments in realtime is a bad idea, which it is
 286 2014-03-26 00:56:50 JZavala has joined
 287 2014-03-26 00:57:03 <phantomcircuit> you just do everything from the default account ""
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 289 2014-03-26 00:57:35 <davout> phantomcircuit: you misunderstand, i don't use bitcoind on my servers for any other purpose than hearing about txes, through a bitcoin-ruby proxy
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 297 2014-03-26 01:00:41 <phantomcircuit> davout, no i believe i do understand exactly what you're doing
 298 2014-03-26 01:01:01 <phantomcircuit> and im saying that i believe it is a very very bad idea
 299 2014-03-26 01:01:21 <davout> phantomcircuit: well then, go ahead and make a point
 300 2014-03-26 01:01:41 <davout> i don't think you'd be mentioning the accounts at all if you actually understood
 301 2014-03-26 01:02:33 <phantomcircuit> <phantomcircuit> davout, the only client which is compatible 100% with the reference client is the reference client
 302 2014-03-26 01:02:43 <phantomcircuit> your saying you dont use bitcoind because of the accounts stuff
 303 2014-03-26 01:02:47 Raziel has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
 304 2014-03-26 01:02:48 <phantomcircuit> im saying that is irrelevant
 305 2014-03-26 01:03:41 <olalonde> am I the only one to think that alternative clients are a good thing for bitcoin?
 306 2014-03-26 01:04:11 <phantomcircuit> olalonde, sure, but trusting them with other peoples bitcoins? no that is probably not currently a good idea
 307 2014-03-26 01:04:16 adam3us has joined
 308 2014-03-26 01:04:39 <phantomcircuit> im not sure that i can adequately explain how difficult implementing a full verifying node is
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 310 2014-03-26 01:04:53 <olalonde> maybe not currently, but you seem to imply that such a thing is not desirable / possible
 311 2014-03-26 01:05:06 <phantomcircuit> i've heard at least one person say think about aircraft software engineering
 312 2014-03-26 01:05:10 <phantomcircuit> except much much harder
 313 2014-03-26 01:05:21 <davout> phantomcircuit: please read what i say, you're misrepresenting my words : "i don't use bitcoind on my servers for any other purpose than hearing about txes, through a bitcoin-ruby proxy"
 314 2014-03-26 01:05:25 _ImI_ has quit (Quit: _ImI_)
 315 2014-03-26 01:05:29 <phantomcircuit> olalonde, not at all, what im saying is that nobody is even close to something that is safe
 316 2014-03-26 01:05:44 EagleTM has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
 317 2014-03-26 01:06:05 <phantomcircuit> davout, so you're still trusting bitcoin-ruby to not interpret something incorrectly
 318 2014-03-26 01:07:14 <davout> phantomcircuit: bitcoin-ruby only get what my bitcoind sends it, bitcoind is here to act as filter
 319 2014-03-26 01:07:37 <phantomcircuit> davout, yes you have exactly the same setup as coinbase
 320 2014-03-26 01:07:49 pooler has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
 321 2014-03-26 01:07:52 <davout> phantomcircuit: so go ahead, explain how that's bad
 322 2014-03-26 01:07:56 <phantomcircuit> i believe this setup to be dangerous to a degree that nobody has yet accepted
 323 2014-03-26 01:08:25 <phantomcircuit> for one you're obviously having trouble replicating the reorganization logic
 324 2014-03-26 01:08:44 <davout> phantomcircuit: i'm not, i asked a question, which was answered
 325 2014-03-26 01:09:19 <phantomcircuit> im sure there is some bizarre edge case in the reference client which is very subtle and likely nobody will realize until something bad happens
 326 2014-03-26 01:09:33 adam3us has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
 327 2014-03-26 01:10:24 <davout> phantomcircuit: is that your point?
 328 2014-03-26 01:11:48 <phantomcircuit> shrug
 329 2014-03-26 01:11:51 <phantomcircuit> you do you
 330 2014-03-26 01:11:58 <phantomcircuit> good luck with that
 331 2014-03-26 01:12:16 <davout> so, that was your point i guess...
 332 2014-03-26 01:12:54 benwilber has joined
 333 2014-03-26 01:14:02 <davout> phantomcircuit: so basically your argument so far boils down to "you asked a question, therefore you have no idea of what you're doing", and "something bad we know nothing about yet might happen, or might not, which may or may not have terrible consequences"
 334 2014-03-26 01:14:35 <olalonde> davout: welcome to #bitcoin-dev :)
 335 2014-03-26 01:15:24 espringe has quit (Quit: espringe)
 336 2014-03-26 01:16:08 <davout> olalonde: i have lots of respect for bitcoin-dev, but somehow i'm kind of disappointed that phantomcircuit implied there was something bad about the setup without being able to put a consistent argument backing it, i expected something juicier tbh :D
 337 2014-03-26 01:16:40 mrkent has joined
 338 2014-03-26 01:16:45 <phantomcircuit> davout, no my point is simply that you are doing something which is risky in a way that is difficult to measure which has no significant benefit
 339 2014-03-26 01:16:51 <phantomcircuit> that makes no sense
 340 2014-03-26 01:17:28 basva_ has joined
 341 2014-03-26 01:17:29 <davout> phantomcircuit: well, i expected something precise
 342 2014-03-26 01:17:44 wizgot has joined
 343 2014-03-26 01:18:01 <davout> not some line of reaasoning that could be extended to using bitcoin itself, it's not even 1.0 yet, might be risky to use it you know
 344 2014-03-26 01:18:05 <phantomcircuit> davout, the entire point is that you cannot precisely identify the risk
 345 2014-03-26 01:18:21 <davout> phantomcircuit: which is true for bitcoind as well
 346 2014-03-26 01:18:43 denisx has quit (Quit: denisx)
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 348 2014-03-26 01:19:33 pwnobs has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 349 2014-03-26 01:19:34 <davout> seriously, how could bitcoin-ruby hear about bogus data if it comfortably sits behind the holy bitcoind?
 350 2014-03-26 01:19:55 toffoo has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
 351 2014-03-26 01:20:49 <phantomcircuit> 2014-03-26 01:18:29 Keys: 0 plaintext, 1000102 encrypted, 1000102 w/ metadata, 1000102 total
 352 2014-03-26 01:20:49 <phantomcircuit> 2014-03-26 01:18:29  wallet               108649ms
 353 2014-03-26 01:21:07 <phantomcircuit> neat
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 356 2014-03-26 01:22:43 <davout> Apocalyptic: i hope this discussion at least reassured you a bit with regards to BCs setup :D
 357 2014-03-26 01:23:20 <Apocalyptic> Apocalyptic, kinda :)
 358 2014-03-26 01:24:09 <olalonde> on that topic , any plans to implement "proof of liabilities" davout?
 359 2014-03-26 01:24:49 <davout> olalonde: this is a proof of liability -> http://www.mtgoxprotest.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/mtgox-protest.jpg
 360 2014-03-26 01:24:57 Krellan_ has joined
 361 2014-03-26 01:25:04 <davout> but there are plans to implement proof of solvency, yes :D
 362 2014-03-26 01:25:16 <olalonde> cool
 363 2014-03-26 01:25:24 rdymac has joined
 364 2014-03-26 01:25:39 <davout> but properly, not some audit where some guy says some other dudes have some money
 365 2014-03-26 01:25:56 <olalonde> (was referring to https://github.com/olalonde/proof-of-liabilities#specification) the merkle tree stuff
 366 2014-03-26 01:25:59 mrkent has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
 367 2014-03-26 01:26:09 <olalonde> davout: great
 368 2014-03-26 01:26:15 uiop has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 369 2014-03-26 01:26:53 <Belxjander> in Weaknesses for DoS rule #12, is it possible to evict a random number of entries? allowing for an "all bits set" cache clearance" ?
 370 2014-03-26 01:26:56 <olalonde> there's a ruby implementation btw https://github.com/peatio/liability-proof
 371 2014-03-26 01:28:04 <davout> olalonde: nice, i'll have a look
 372 2014-03-26 01:28:18 <davout> i'm off, this is getting OT for -dev :D
 373 2014-03-26 01:29:20 <olalonde> same same
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 469 2014-03-26 03:31:52 <olalonde> any reason why bitcoind with testnet=3 is not downloading any block?
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 474 2014-03-26 03:37:15 <olalonde> and 0 connections
 475 2014-03-26 03:37:19 hsmiths has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 476 2014-03-26 03:37:40 <olalonde> I'm using rpcport=18332 and testnet=3
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 481 2014-03-26 03:40:20 <olalonde> I'm also running a livenet bitcoind , could that be the issue?
 482 2014-03-26 03:41:33 Gyps has quit (Quit: Gyps)
 483 2014-03-26 03:42:42 <pigeons> i thought testnet=1 will give you testnet3
 484 2014-03-26 03:44:58 Namworld has joined
 485 2014-03-26 03:45:05 <olalonde> getting a bunch of connection timeout in my debug.log
 486 2014-03-26 03:47:02 Raccoon has joined
 487 2014-03-26 03:47:52 <olalonde> it connects to the IRC chatroom but after that im getting a bunch of connection timeout :(
 488 2014-03-26 03:47:56 benkay has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
 489 2014-03-26 03:48:04 <olalonde> maybe it's an issue with my ISP
 490 2014-03-26 03:51:38 <olalonde> oh, seems I can configure the timeout, lets try that
 491 2014-03-26 03:53:28 <venzen> olalonde: i think the value you pass to -testnet is a boolean, so testnet=1 enables testnet3 as pigeons says
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 494 2014-03-26 03:54:13 <olalonde> ok but it is enabling testnet, that's not the issue :(
 495 2014-03-26 03:59:11 <olalonde> I'm getting a bunch of connection timeout and some onnection refused
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 568 2014-03-26 05:38:54 <venzen> that's normal since bitcoind is trying addresses from peers.dat - some are online, some are not
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 596 2014-03-26 06:21:06 <aegis> Hi
 597 2014-03-26 06:21:26 <aegis> So this transaction was sent on 17 March: https://blockchain.info/tx/126dfd5d30698512b6903bb2cc6e931b923874e01288fe866cee30a744b6b478
 598 2014-03-26 06:21:30 Anon has joined
 599 2014-03-26 06:21:53 <aegis> Does anyone have any idea if/when it will confirm?  And if it doesn't, is there a time it will cancel or return?
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 613 2014-03-26 06:32:34 <dcousens> what is the purpose of OP_CODESEPARATOR?
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 616 2014-03-26 06:34:30 <Luke-Jr> dcousens: no purpose anymore
 617 2014-03-26 06:34:50 <Luke-Jr> dcousens: once upon a time, scriptSig and scriptPubKey were simply concatenated with OP_CODESEPARATOR in between
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 619 2014-03-26 06:38:10 <dcousens> Luke-Jr: so why not remove it?
 620 2014-03-26 06:38:18 <Luke-Jr> dcousens: that would be a hardfork.
 621 2014-03-26 06:38:23 <dcousens> ah.
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 624 2014-03-26 06:39:05 <dcousens> is that simply because of the history re-write? or because new transactions might be invalid?
 625 2014-03-26 06:39:17 banghouse has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 626 2014-03-26 06:39:51 <Luke-Jr> dcousens: a hardfork is when formerly invalid blocks/transactions are now valid
 627 2014-03-26 06:40:22 <dcousens> right, but how would removing an opcode make previously invalid blocks valid?
 628 2014-03-26 06:40:47 <Luke-Jr> …
 629 2014-03-26 06:41:30 <Luke-Jr> take for example, the scriptPubKey: OP_0 OP_CODESEPARATOR OP_CHECKSIG
 630 2014-03-26 06:41:56 <Luke-Jr> with the current rules, that excludes OP_0 from the ECDSA signed data (IIRC, don't quote me on the specifics)
 631 2014-03-26 06:42:04 <Luke-Jr> with the new rules, it would include OP_0
 632 2014-03-26 06:42:24 <Luke-Jr> so, if the signature was on the transaction including OP_0, it would have been invalid now, but valid by the new rule
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 635 2014-03-26 06:42:47 <dcousens> Right, so it would be because of the history rewrite
 636 2014-03-26 06:42:48 <Luke-Jr> … assuming OP_CODESEPARATOR was a no-op. if it's now "always invalid", I guess it'd be a softfork. maybe.
 637 2014-03-26 06:42:58 <Luke-Jr> it has nothing to do with history.
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 644 2014-03-26 06:46:40 <Luke-Jr> dcousens: it has to do with people running old versions *in the present*
 645 2014-03-26 06:46:45 <dcousens> yeah
 646 2014-03-26 06:46:57 <Luke-Jr> if you make that rule change, those people will *presently* reject the new block
 647 2014-03-26 06:49:23 <dcousens> Luke-Jr: right, cheers
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 650 2014-03-26 06:52:04 <dcousens> Luke-Jr: I was completely ignoring old clients, hence why I missed the implications of previously invalid transactions becoming valid,  my mistake :)
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 655 2014-03-26 06:55:16 <Luke-Jr> dcousens: you know.. I wonder if that might be actually not be so bad an idea..
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 658 2014-03-26 06:57:16 <dcousens> Luke-Jr: actually, if you just removed the opcode, surely invalid transactions would remain invalid? Since the opcode would be invalid?
 659 2014-03-26 06:57:32 <Luke-Jr> [06:41:29] <Luke-Jr> … assuming OP_CODESEPARATOR was a no-op. if it's now "always invalid", I guess it'd be a softfork. maybe. <-- :p
 660 2014-03-26 06:57:51 <dcousens> Right, just confirming the same line of thought
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 684 2014-03-26 07:26:46 <looking_to_learn> Learning C++, currently looking for small ways to contribute to the project, any suggestions? Small ways of getting involved?
 685 2014-03-26 07:27:14 <Luke-Jr> unit tests
 686 2014-03-26 07:27:25 <Luke-Jr> and/or review of pending merge requests
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 692 2014-03-26 07:30:19 <wumpus> +1 what Luke-Jr says
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 694 2014-03-26 07:31:47 <looking_to_learn> Thanks Luke-jr, I will have to do more research, but I will be back with more educated questions. Thanks for your input.
 695 2014-03-26 07:31:59 <Luke-Jr> np
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 697 2014-03-26 07:33:11 <warren> wumpus: before 0.9 a few people were talking about excluding macports and using homebrew for mac builds, did it happen?
 698 2014-03-26 07:33:36 <wumpus> warren: I don't know anything about mac
 699 2014-03-26 07:33:58 <warren> wumpus: saw my earlier message?  cfields agreed to do our gitian symbol filtering
 700 2014-03-26 07:34:18 <SomeoneWeird> ➜  ~  brew cask search bitcoin
 701 2014-03-26 07:34:18 <SomeoneWeird> ==> Exact match
 702 2014-03-26 07:34:18 <SomeoneWeird> bitcoin
 703 2014-03-26 07:34:33 <SomeoneWeird> no source only install, but you can install the bins
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 705 2014-03-26 07:34:52 <fanquake> heh that's to install the .app on osx
 706 2014-03-26 07:35:05 <warren> SomeoneWeird: there was talk of having ./configure explicitly skip macports
 707 2014-03-26 07:35:19 <fanquake> now sure if there's a bitcoin formula in the homebrew repo.
 708 2014-03-26 07:35:22 <fanquake> *not
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 710 2014-03-26 07:35:40 <SomeoneWeird> fanquake, I know, there isn't
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 712 2014-03-26 07:35:57 <fanquake> There are plenty of taps with one in though.
 713 2014-03-26 07:36:09 <wumpus> warren: well, from what he posted on github yesterday he doesn't have anything more appealing and recommends going on with the static builds https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/3914
 714 2014-03-26 07:36:09 <SomeoneWeird> yeah
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 716 2014-03-26 07:36:50 <warren> wumpus: he agreed today to do it for dynamic linked builds
 717 2014-03-26 07:37:05 <wumpus> ...
 718 2014-03-26 07:37:10 <wumpus> so what is it, then?
 719 2014-03-26 07:37:22 <warren> wumpus: symbol filtering with shim libraries
 720 2014-03-26 07:37:42 <wumpus> okay never mind, I'll just stay out of it
 721 2014-03-26 07:38:55 <Luke-Jr> warren: is it sufficient for me to write a Script debugger around? :P
 722 2014-03-26 07:39:09 <warren> Luke-Jr: huh?
 723 2014-03-26 07:39:32 <wumpus> this is about https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/3914, not my foiled attempt at shared-libing bitcoin
 724 2014-03-26 07:39:36 <Luke-Jr> warren: I want to write a GUI that allows single-stepping through and interactively editing Script
 725 2014-03-26 07:39:55 <warren> Luke-Jr: what's stopping you?
 726 2014-03-26 07:39:55 <wumpus> Luke-Jr: maybe we should do a private libbitcoincore fork
 727 2014-03-26 07:40:09 <Luke-Jr> warren: no C++ Script engine I can link to
 728 2014-03-26 07:40:26 <wumpus> Luke-Jr: at least until someone defines an application interface for the kiddos :)
 729 2014-03-26 07:40:59 <Luke-Jr> wumpus: I guess it'd let us cut the testing out of other changes needed too
 730 2014-03-26 07:41:04 <Luke-Jr> (like https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/3901 )
 731 2014-03-26 07:41:23 <wumpus> on the other hand, it means keeping a patch set up to date every time with master
 732 2014-03-26 07:41:48 <Luke-Jr> if it's minimal, we can just merge master into it
 733 2014-03-26 07:42:23 <wumpus> true
 734 2014-03-26 07:44:15 <Luke-Jr> libunstablebitcoincore_*? :P
 735 2014-03-26 07:45:03 <wumpus> yes may as well put the instability warning into the library name
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 738 2014-03-26 07:47:32 <Luke-Jr> anyhow, we're all busy, so maybe best to wait and see what cfields comes up with in the next few weeks
 739 2014-03-26 07:48:00 <wumpus> yes, let's just get back to waiting :)
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 744 2014-03-26 07:49:13 <wumpus> the thing is that I don't just need the script interpreter but also the net and rpc stuff, to be able to create an external wallet project
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 752 2014-03-26 07:52:40 <Luke-Jr> wumpus: right, I don't think there's anything in the current codebase you *don't* need ☺
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 754 2014-03-26 07:53:15 <wumpus> Luke-Jr: exactly... 
 755 2014-03-26 07:54:06 <wumpus> though thinking about it, this doesn't need to be based on the satoshi client at all
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 757 2014-03-26 07:54:53 <Luke-Jr> … unless you want to make the debug window a real RPC client, then you could cut out bitcoind code
 758 2014-03-26 07:54:57 <Luke-Jr> true
 759 2014-03-26 07:55:00 <wumpus> I can just copy over the src/qt stuff and try to fit it to another interface, maybe I should take a look at Amir Taaki's lib :')
 760 2014-03-26 07:55:40 <Luke-Jr> I bet that would be interesting to do even if you didn't end up releasing it
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 763 2014-03-26 07:55:57 <wumpus> or, there was some other C-based SPV wallet around, with a ncurses interface
 764 2014-03-26 07:57:11 <Luke-Jr> I think that was based on Amir's lib?
 765 2014-03-26 07:57:17 <Luke-Jr> unless it's jgarzik's picocoin
 766 2014-03-26 07:57:22 <wumpus> then again, I'm somewhat more comfortable with the bitcoin core wallet, it's never failed me
 767 2014-03-26 07:57:24 <Luke-Jr> but I think picocoin is a full node
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 770 2014-03-26 07:57:49 <Luke-Jr> wumpus: well, with the proper abstraction, perhaps it could be pluggable ;)
 771 2014-03-26 07:57:52 <wumpus> ...but changing it to SPV is some work too
 772 2014-03-26 07:58:24 <Luke-Jr> too bad linkers need special hoops to dynamically dynamic link :/
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 775 2014-03-26 08:01:41 <wumpus> "For now, we assume that the address onto which we want to transfer change is the wallet's main/first key. In the future this will likely change, but for now we'll keep this simple."... ehh huh?
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 778 2014-03-26 08:02:16 <Luke-Jr> wumpus: O.o
 779 2014-03-26 08:02:20 <wumpus> (that's from bitc)
 780 2014-03-26 08:02:31 <Luke-Jr> sigh
 781 2014-03-26 08:02:50 <Luke-Jr> for a second I was afraid Satoshi wrote that in some old version XD
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 787 2014-03-26 08:07:09 <wumpus> ideally I'd use Qt for networking, but then I'll have to implement all the P2P stuff myself, and also RPC as I'd like to provide a satoshi-ish interface ... better to borrow as much as possible from bitcoin core
 788 2014-03-26 08:07:32 <Luke-Jr> you might want to do that (P2P) anyway. the current code sucks.
 789 2014-03-26 08:08:14 <wumpus> nah, a SPV client doesn't need to maintain many connections so it's good enough
 790 2014-03-26 08:08:26 <Luke-Jr> doesn't need to, but it could
 791 2014-03-26 08:10:16 <wumpus> it's an idea for the future (could also use the Qt5 JSON stuff in my project instead of spirit json)
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 793 2014-03-26 08:11:23 * Luke-Jr hopes Gentoo makes Qt5 available sometime..
 794 2014-03-26 08:11:25 <wumpus> but my goal is not to reimplement bitcoin core but to have an useable bitcoin-qt based external wallet in the least span of time :p
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 804 2014-03-26 08:18:52 <qwebirc498195> hi, i write my diploma about bitcoin and i'd like to ask u about hashtypes of the signatures.
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 808 2014-03-26 08:19:38 <fanquake> qwebirc498195 Don't ask to ask. Just post your question.
 809 2014-03-26 08:20:20 <qwebirc498195> hashtype is not a part of signature, it is only appended to signature, right?
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 814 2014-03-26 08:23:38 <qwebirc388908> sorry, uncontrolled reboot. again, hashtype is not a part of signature, it isonly appended to one, right?
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 818 2014-03-26 08:25:47 <wumpus> yes, it's a byte appended at the end
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 823 2014-03-26 08:27:15 <qwebirc388908> who set the hashtype value spender or provider of bitcoins?
 824 2014-03-26 08:28:00 <qwebirc388908> spender, right?
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 830 2014-03-26 08:35:14 <wumpus> yes, the spender provides the signatures
 831 2014-03-26 08:39:23 <wumpus> see https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/OP_CHECKSIG
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 833 2014-03-26 08:39:50 <qwebirc388908> i have alredy seen it but i was a little confused
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 836 2014-03-26 08:40:16 <qwebirc388908> just wanted to be sure
 837 2014-03-26 08:40:22 <qwebirc388908> thx man
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 845 2014-03-26 08:48:38 <ribasushi> is it intentional that bitcoind does *not* provide a way to get a pubkey?
 846 2014-03-26 08:49:01 <ribasushi> makes generating multisig scripts a massive PITA, since bitcoind itself wants the WIF-style pubkeys
 847 2014-03-26 08:50:57 <wumpus> ribasushi: try validateaddress <address> to get the pubkey
 848 2014-03-26 08:51:05 <ribasushi> sorry, not wif style, hexencoded
 849 2014-03-26 08:51:13 <ribasushi> >.<
 850 2014-03-26 08:51:18 <ribasushi> I would have *never* guessed to try that
 851 2014-03-26 08:51:35 <wumpus> always the adventure, using the RPC api
 852 2014-03-26 08:52:03 <wumpus> when the wallet is enabled, validateaddress sneakily changes into a 'get information about key' method
 853 2014-03-26 08:52:24 <ribasushi> do we blame satoshi or someone elses brilliant idea? :)
 854 2014-03-26 08:53:05 <dcousens> wumpus: haha, have we not all been there with the RPC api...
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 856 2014-03-26 08:53:41 <wumpus> dunno, I'm not a fan of the blame game, but it probably seemed like a good idea at the time, "this way we don't have to add another RPC call"
 857 2014-03-26 08:54:23 <ribasushi> wumpus: fair enough, thanks for the help!
 858 2014-03-26 08:54:54 <wumpus> it has to be overhauled at some point, with specific RPCs for the wallet, blockchain, p2p. and 'general utility' RPCs
 859 2014-03-26 08:55:15 <wumpus> wallet.getkeyinfo .. etc
 860 2014-03-26 08:55:16 <dcousens> wumpus: we can only hope
 861 2014-03-26 08:55:31 <wumpus> no no no don't hope, build stuff! :)
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 870 2014-03-26 09:06:38 <AmThatsMe> Hi everyone ! i made 3 pull requests regarding RPC testing (some new, some few weeks old). It will be great to get your opinion (ACK/ NACK) so i know I'm on the right track
 871 2014-03-26 09:06:43 <AmThatsMe> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/3837
 872 2014-03-26 09:06:47 <AmThatsMe> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/3956
 873 2014-03-26 09:06:52 <AmThatsMe> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/3837
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 875 2014-03-26 09:12:27 <wumpus> I've commented
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 905 2014-03-26 09:57:07 <shaileshg> Hi, its given that
 906 2014-03-26 09:57:07 <shaileshg> -walletnotify=<cmd>    Execute command when a wallet transaction changes
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 908 2014-03-26 09:57:22 <shaileshg> so, i want to ask: when does wallet transaction changes?
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 912 2014-03-26 09:58:03 <sturles> E.g. when you send or receive coins and, when a transaction involving you is confirmed.
 913 2014-03-26 09:58:15 <sturles> Involving an address in your wallet.
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 915 2014-03-26 09:59:27 <shaileshg> sturles: is there any minimum level of confirmations ?
 916 2014-03-26 09:59:57 <shaileshg> and if i want to enable notification to me when i receive bitcoins to any of my addresses, how can i do that..
 917 2014-03-26 09:59:59 <shaileshg> any sample?
 918 2014-03-26 10:00:06 <epscy> sturles: is it confirmed or just sent?
 919 2014-03-26 10:00:13 <epscy> (or received)
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 921 2014-03-26 10:00:59 <sturles> The walletnotify script is run at 0 and 1 confirmations.  To check for more you may use blocknotify.
 922 2014-03-26 10:01:20 <sturles> Or may be more confirmations in case of a reorg.
 923 2014-03-26 10:01:38 <sturles> If the tx wansn't confirmed in the first version, but was in the second.
 924 2014-03-26 10:02:27 <shaileshg> sturles: hmm. and cmd is path to executable program
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 926 2014-03-26 10:02:39 <shaileshg> what do you mean by reorg?
 927 2014-03-26 10:02:59 <sturles> It is really simple.  Just make a script which notifies you in whatever way you like.  The first argument will be the txid, which you can pull from bitcoind if you want any details about it.
 928 2014-03-26 10:03:18 <sturles> A blockchain reorg happens when a chain is overtaken by a longer chain.
 929 2014-03-26 10:03:34 <sturles> What you see as orphan blocks on blockchain.info.
 930 2014-03-26 10:03:45 <shaileshg> sturles: hmm
 931 2014-03-26 10:04:10 <sturles> If you had the orphan, it will be exchanged with the new version in a reorg when the block after the orphan is found.
 932 2014-03-26 10:04:48 <sturles> In the other chain, of course.
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 977 2014-03-26 11:13:50 <shadders> I'm just trying to get my head around my old merkle tree implementation.  It can recalculate the tree is left or right nodes are changed but the comments in my code indicate that modifying a center node means the whole tree needs to be recalculated.  But I don't think that's really the case is it?  You just need to recalculate that nodes branch?
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 979 2014-03-26 11:16:39 <sipa> yes
 980 2014-03-26 11:17:46 <shadders> thanks sipa
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1017 2014-03-26 11:54:28 <hearn> huh, bitstamp do withdrawals using giant sendmany transactions
1018 2014-03-26 11:55:01 <hearn> ouch. $1.46 miner fee on that tx :(
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1022 2014-03-26 11:56:57 <sipa> assuming a constant fee/byte, it's cheaper than doing it in separate ones :)
1023 2014-03-26 11:57:33 <paveljanik> hearn: do you have a txid please?
1024 2014-03-26 11:57:52 <hearn> paveljanik: why?
1025 2014-03-26 11:58:37 EmLeX has joined
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1027 2014-03-26 11:59:04 <skinnkavaj> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=507656.0
1028 2014-03-26 11:59:51 benrcole has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1029 2014-03-26 12:00:44 <paveljanik> so I can look at it.
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1032 2014-03-26 12:01:48 <hearn> paveljanik: yes, obviously. i mean why do you want to look at it? it’s nothing special.
1033 2014-03-26 12:02:10 <paveljanik> ah, how large it is, how often do they etc.
1034 2014-03-26 12:02:24 <paveljanik> how long is it in the mempool etc.
1035 2014-03-26 12:04:33 <hearn> it’s 24kb and didn’t confirm yet
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1039 2014-03-26 12:06:33 <paveljanik> a few days ago, we tracked a Czech user's txid 7be8a9d8f857c1eaa04baacb6df27a6e64569494b3576f503fa16b67377c303f.
1040 2014-03-26 12:06:42 <paveljanik> he updated to 0.9 and used the default fee.
1041 2014-03-26 12:06:48 <paveljanik> it is still in my mempool
1042 2014-03-26 12:06:59 <paveljanik> right now, at 1158 position.
1043 2014-03-26 12:07:18 <paveljanik> it is almost a week ago when it was submitted.
1044 2014-03-26 12:09:06 <paveljanik> so I wanted to check the large transaction because it is another use-case for strange priority counting.
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1047 2014-03-26 12:11:14 <hearn> that is weird
1048 2014-03-26 12:11:33 <paveljanik> pavel@opencl:~/bitcoin/src> ./bitcoin-cli getrawmempool true | sed -n '/currentprio/ s#.*: ##p' | sort -rn | grep -n `./bitcoin-cli getrawmempool true | grep -A 8 7be8a9d8f857c1eaa04baacb6df27a6e64569494b3576f503fa16b67377c303f | grep current | sed 's#.*: ##'`
1049 2014-03-26 12:11:33 <paveljanik> 1146:18962763.30601677,
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1051 2014-03-26 12:11:57 <paveljanik> rough, stupid way to print it, but it is in my history...
1052 2014-03-26 12:11:58 <hearn> when you say “default fee” it looks like he may have used the new min relay fee
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1054 2014-03-26 12:12:10 <paveljanik> yup.
1055 2014-03-26 12:12:20 <paveljanik> yes, sorry. min. fee
1056 2014-03-26 12:12:35 <hearn> well, that’s no surprise then
1057 2014-03-26 12:12:42 <hearn> probably not many miners upgraded to 0.9 yet
1058 2014-03-26 12:12:50 <hearn> 0.9 still generates transactions with the old fee for a reason ..
1059 2014-03-26 12:12:59 <paveljanik> yes, this was the reason I told him.
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1062 2014-03-26 12:13:23 <paveljanik> it is dust for many nodes.
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1065 2014-03-26 12:15:00 <paveljanik> and now, I'd like to see how long this large tx will be in my mempool with so small fee.
1066 2014-03-26 12:15:31 <sipa> if it enters the mempool, it never leaves
1067 2014-03-26 12:15:39 <sipa> until mined or a conflict is mined
1068 2014-03-26 12:16:08 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Or a restart
1069 2014-03-26 12:16:17 <paveljanik> yes, this is clear (res... yes)
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1075 2014-03-26 12:21:37 <paveljanik> sipa: but right now, I do not know, when it entered my mempool ;-)
1076 2014-03-26 12:21:49 <jouke> aschildbach: does bitcoin wallet have a feature to connect to a regtest node?
1077 2014-03-26 12:22:21 <aschildbach> jouke: You cannot switch networks at runtime.
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1081 2014-03-26 12:24:35 <jouke> aschildbach: I am not sure what you are saying. It is possible, but it is not easy to do?
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1083 2014-03-26 12:25:17 <aschildbach> jouke: The app is open source. You can probably configure it for regtest and compile it yourself. I never tried though.
1084 2014-03-26 12:25:41 <aschildbach> I publish binaries for mainnet and testnet only.
1085 2014-03-26 12:25:49 <jouke> I wouldn't even know how to begin :P
1086 2014-03-26 12:26:12 smash has joined
1087 2014-03-26 12:26:20 <jouke> I am not even sure about the specifics of a regtest "blockchain".
1088 2014-03-26 12:26:39 <aschildbach> Look at the sections about building the app: https://github.com/schildbach/bitcoin-wallet/blob/master/wallet/README
1089 2014-03-26 12:27:22 <hearn> i did a regtest version a while back
1090 2014-03-26 12:27:24 <hearn> it wasn’t very hard
1091 2014-03-26 12:27:42 <aschildbach> Constants.java contains a NETWORK_PARAMETERS constant that needs to be switched
1092 2014-03-26 12:27:45 <hearn> jouke: it’s just different NetworkParameters, and then you have to disable checkpointing, and make it connect to your local bitcoind
1093 2014-03-26 12:29:04 <jouke> Ok, I'll give it a try. Nice and clear instructions btw aschildbach, thanks :)
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1096 2014-03-26 12:34:06 <hearn> aschildbach: http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/21ds80/payment_protocol_android_wallet_super_smooth/
1097 2014-03-26 12:35:20 <melvster> im testing bfgminer with gbt ... I send in a coinbase size 0x50 and it finds me a block with a coinbase size 0x54 ... there's a mysterious 02000000 inserted at the end of the coinbase but before the sequence ... any ideas what this is?
1098 2014-03-26 12:36:04 <aschildbach> hearn: nice
1099 2014-03-26 12:37:01 <melvster> 02000000 looks like a version number ... but do we put the version at the end of the coinbase these days?
1100 2014-03-26 12:37:27 <aschildbach> hearn: somehow we need to convince bitpay to optimize their memo. The "Payment request for" seems redundant to me.
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1103 2014-03-26 12:39:06 <hearn> aschildbach: yes. but you can optimise the gui too :) Stephen agreed that the memo should be changed, i guess they just didn’t get to it yet
1104 2014-03-26 12:41:11 <jouke> aschildbach: we also use your app as an example: https://bitonic.nl/news/28/payment-protocol . At the moment we received around 40 paid requests, so it is still marginally compared to our total payments.
1105 2014-03-26 12:41:24 <jouke> Have to look at the logs what apps are used to fetch the requests.
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1111 2014-03-26 12:43:52 <jouke> Mostly bitcoinj/bitcoin wallet
1112 2014-03-26 12:44:27 <hearn> this would not surprise me
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1114 2014-03-26 12:44:36 <hearn> but multibit (hd) and hive are all planning to add support too
1115 2014-03-26 12:44:42 <hearn> so hopefully the volume will go up in the coming months
1116 2014-03-26 12:45:02 <aschildbach> jouke: Cool! Do you have an english version of the page? (or german)
1117 2014-03-26 12:45:46 <jouke> Actually. Only one Satoshi-client fetched a requests, the rest is all BitCoinJ/Bitocoin wallet.
1118 2014-03-26 12:46:03 <jouke> aschildbach: no, sorry.
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1122 2014-03-26 12:47:16 <hearn> aschildbach: google translate my friend :)
1123 2014-03-26 12:47:25 <hearn> jouke: does Trezor actually have full support?
1124 2014-03-26 12:47:31 <hearn> i thought it was planned for a post-v1 release
1125 2014-03-26 12:48:04 <jouke> Oh, might be. Haven't received mine yet
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1127 2014-03-26 12:49:40 <hearn> yeah, afaik they didn’t ship any yet
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1152 2014-03-26 13:19:46 <runeks> Say I run bitcoind on a server in my home network. I also have a PC that runs bitcoind, and I'd like it to connect to the always-running bitcoind instance on my server. Problem is that I've set maxconnections to 20 on the server, and when I want to connect to it from my PC, it refuses connection because its 20 connection slots are all used. Is there any clever way around this?
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1170 2014-03-26 13:32:16 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|runeks: not atm
1171 2014-03-26 13:32:33 <runeks> michagogo|cloud: Ok. Does that mean something is being worked on?
1172 2014-03-26 13:32:44 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|not afaik
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1174 2014-03-26 13:32:50 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|A couple people have asked, though
1175 2014-03-26 13:32:58 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|And as always, "patches welcome"
1176 2014-03-26 13:33:33 <runeks> michagogo|cloud: Also, what do you think a good way of fixing this would be? Adding a -bypassmaxforhost option? Where you can specify a host or IP range for which the -maxconnections option isn't in effect?
1177 2014-03-26 13:33:47 * michagogo cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|shrugs
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1181 2014-03-26 13:36:44 <sipa> runeks: workaround: set an -addnode on the server to your desktop
1182 2014-03-26 13:36:58 <sipa> correct solution is a white-listing-listening-port
1183 2014-03-26 13:37:42 <runeks> sipa: So that means the server will keep trying to connect to my PC (and never give up?), so it connects when I turn my PC on?
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1185 2014-03-26 13:39:14 <runeks> sipa: And by "white-listing-listening-port" I assume you mean listening on a separate port for which -maxconnections is not in effect?
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1191 2014-03-26 13:41:12 <sipa> runeks: correct
1192 2014-03-26 13:41:25 <runeks> Cool! I will do that. Thanks.
1193 2014-03-26 13:41:26 andytoshi has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
1194 2014-03-26 13:41:27 <sipa> runeks: and be exempt from DoS protection
1195 2014-03-26 13:41:41 <sipa> runeks: and automatically relay all transactions
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1197 2014-03-26 13:42:22 <runeks> sipa: Yeah, I thought about that. Nodes sending SYN packets with a "from address" of 192.168.1.1 to a host that always allows connections on 192.168.1.0/24
1198 2014-03-26 13:42:34 <runeks> Wouldn't be good
1199 2014-03-26 13:42:57 <runeks> If that is even possible (not sure if it is)
1200 2014-03-26 13:43:25 <sipa> idea is: if we enable -whiteport or something, you take responsibility of making sure nothing malicious can connect to that port
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1203 2014-03-26 13:45:22 <runeks> Right. Which should be easy. I was talking about my "-bypassmaxconnforhost" solution. I think that might be open to abuse.
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1206 2014-03-26 13:47:05 <sipa> yeah
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1208 2014-03-26 13:47:10 <wumpus> -bind and -whitebind  
1209 2014-03-26 13:47:23 <olalonde> my bitcoind won't connect to testnet :(
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1212 2014-03-26 13:47:33 <wumpus> maybe add -blackbind for symmetry :p
1213 2014-03-26 13:47:49 <sipa> we need greylisting too
1214 2014-03-26 13:47:59 <wumpus> certainly
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1216 2014-03-26 13:48:12 <sipa> and redlisting
1217 2014-03-26 13:48:47 BCBot has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1218 2014-03-26 13:49:26 <wumpus> maybe add a RGB code to bind then
1219 2014-03-26 13:49:33 <runeks> sipa: By the way, did you see my message from the other day? <runeks> sipa: Just came across this blog post about implementing an ECDSA signature system that is impervious to timing attacks: http://blog.cr.yp.to/20140323-ecdsa.html I remember you talking about doing this was the hard part about writing the secp256k1 library, so I thought you might find the article interesting.
1220 2014-03-26 13:49:37 <olalonde> anyone knows how I might manage to connect to a testnet peer?
1221 2014-03-26 13:49:47 <runeks> I thought it was rather interesting.
1222 2014-03-26 13:49:52 <olalonde> getting a bunch on connection timeout when starting the server.. regular livenet works fine
1223 2014-03-26 13:50:50 <sipa> runeks: oh, no, missed that
1224 2014-03-26 13:51:42 <olalonde> oh yeah, finally :) connected to a node
1225 2014-03-26 13:52:56 <runeks> sipa: Although I'm not quite sure whether it's possible for secp256k1
1226 2014-03-26 13:53:31 <sipa> runeks: don't have time to read it entirely now, but i'm pretty sure it's possible to make secp256k1 be very close to constant, in the same way it was done for p-256
1227 2014-03-26 13:54:06 etotheipi_ has joined
1228 2014-03-26 13:54:31 <etotheipi_> Can anyone here spare some testnet coins?  The faucet is dry
1229 2014-03-26 13:54:32 <etotheipi_> mktpPdYndrt2RjCFeiTT4m5HFee1y18gqg
1230 2014-03-26 13:54:40 <runeks> sipa: Cool. I guess we're at a point where the OpenSSL implementation is no longer all that good, due to timing attacks. Ie. where your implementation can actually be a safer choise than the OpenSSL one, and not just a faster choice.
1231 2014-03-26 13:55:16 <sipa> runeks: apart from potential coding errors (review, auditing, ...), i'm quite sure the implementation mechanism i use is much safer
1232 2014-03-26 13:55:26 benrcole1 has joined
1233 2014-03-26 13:55:30 <etotheipi_> ooh libsecp256k1... sipa is that library ready for use (and public)?
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1236 2014-03-26 13:55:56 <sipa> etotheipi_: github.com/bitcoin/secp256k1
1237 2014-03-26 13:56:03 <sipa> etotheipi_: but ehm... no warranty
1238 2014-03-26 13:56:15 <sipa> needs a big fat disclaimer
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1240 2014-03-26 13:56:34 <etotheipi_> sipa: is it in bitcoin core yet?
1241 2014-03-26 13:56:37 <sipa> no
1242 2014-03-26 13:56:53 <sipa> i plan to merge it soon, but enabled only under a --enable-experimental or something
1243 2014-03-26 13:57:00 <etotheipi_> sipa: gotcha
1244 2014-03-26 13:57:18 <etotheipi_> sipa: also, did you implement any kind of deterministic signign?
1245 2014-03-26 13:57:28 <sipa> etotheipi_: orthogonal
1246 2014-03-26 13:57:30 <etotheipi_> are folks comfortable with that idea yet?
1247 2014-03-26 13:57:34 <sipa> etotheipi_: you provide the secret
1248 2014-03-26 13:57:43 <etotheipi_> sipa: ahh, perfect
1249 2014-03-26 13:57:44 <sipa> i'm very confortable with it
1250 2014-03-26 13:57:45 <runeks> sipa: Good. It's such a hard choice though, to switch. But it got a bit easier after the OpenSSL implementation turned out to not be that good after all.
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1252 2014-03-26 13:58:07 <sipa> well, before bip62 we technically cannot switch
1253 2014-03-26 13:58:26 <sipa> as there may be signature parsing differences between openssl and libsecp256k1
1254 2014-03-26 13:59:13 <etotheipi_> btw, anyone got some testnet coins avail? mktpPdYndrt2RjCFeiTT4m5HFee1y18gqg
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1257 2014-03-26 14:00:18 <runeks> sipa: Right. Would you be comfortable with a switch now anyway, if it were possible?
1258 2014-03-26 14:01:49 <sipa> runeks: no
1259 2014-03-26 14:02:38 <runeks> Didn't think so.
1260 2014-03-26 14:02:53 <sipa> etotheipi_: i do plan to change the public API significantly too
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1262 2014-03-26 14:03:38 <sipa> make it a bit more high-level (actually have ecdsa methods), and pass in a struct with function pointers (generate random bytes, hash data, ...)
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1268 2014-03-26 14:07:46 <etotheipi_> sipa: we don't plan to hook into it yet, just curious because we were thinking about deterministic signing and I seem to remember having difficulty with Crypto++
1269 2014-03-26 14:08:45 <etotheipi_> in fact, I remember I had to hack it to do Bitcoin signing at all... it was a mess to try to implement double-sha256, and I was eventually able to do it by doing a single-sha256 before giving it to crypto++, it did the second one
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1282 2014-03-26 14:23:38 <ascent_> etotheipi_: sent.
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1287 2014-03-26 14:29:03 <etotheipi_> ascent_: thanks!
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1290 2014-03-26 14:32:32 <[Author]> etotheipi_: http://faucet.luis.im
1291 2014-03-26 14:34:17 <ascent_> Debian... guess what, got old bitcoind 0.3.24-beta... Imported some wallets, noticed it's prehistoric and now sending is impossible because of error Invalid Bitcoin address (address is valid, from 0.9). Listaccounts shows me negative balance in default account and positive in other named account? Listaddressgroupings show amounts in addresses not seen on blockchain.info... wtf?
1292 2014-03-26 14:35:16 <sipa> ascent_: you need 0.5 if you have compressed pubkeys
1293 2014-03-26 14:35:34 <sipa> (which is default now)
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1297 2014-03-26 14:38:41 <ascent_> oh. What about negative balance? It occur in some really old bitcoind or I miss something? I'm writing software around bitcoind and few other altcoins (like Litecoin). I can't rely on balances?
1298 2014-03-26 14:38:56 <etotheipi_> [Author]: thanks!
1299 2014-03-26 14:38:58 <sipa> balances can always be negative
1300 2014-03-26 14:39:03 <sipa> account balances, at least
1301 2014-03-26 14:39:09 <sipa> if you send more from an account than to it
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1303 2014-03-26 14:39:58 <sipa> wallet balances can't go negative of course, as that would mean negative coins
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1305 2014-03-26 14:42:13 <ribasushi> does any site track statistics on node version strings?
1306 2014-03-26 14:42:33 <ribasushi> is it overwhelmingly bitcoind version X or Y? are there sizeable non-bitcoind pools
1307 2014-03-26 14:42:35 <ribasushi> stuff like that
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1319 2014-03-26 14:52:56 <stonecoldpat> ribasushi: http://getaddr.bitnodes.io/dashboard/ does... (I don't know its accuracy, but at least its something)
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1342 2014-03-26 15:13:18 <Luke-Jr> melvster: the extranonce?
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1381 2014-03-26 15:44:49 <melvster> Luke-Jr:  ahhh i see, is that what it is?  It's tagged on the end of coinbase ... let me try again and see if it changes
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1383 2014-03-26 15:45:43 <melvster> ah yes next time it was 01000000
1384 2014-03-26 15:45:52 <melvster> problem solved thx
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1393 2014-03-26 15:55:50 Charlie is now known as CharlesFrake
1394 2014-03-26 15:55:56 <dcousens> is the difference between SignatureHash() and SignatureHashOld() simply that the former is abstracted out into the CTransactionSignatureSerializer?
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1396 2014-03-26 15:56:11 <dcousens> (or at least, part of it is)
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1398 2014-03-26 15:57:08 <sipa> dcousens: yes
1399 2014-03-26 15:57:30 <sipa> dcousens: Old is the former implementation, which is very imperative ("do this, clear this, replace this by this, ...")
1400 2014-03-26 15:57:43 <sipa> the new implementation is a bit faster, and more declarative
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1441 2014-03-26 16:26:00 <hearn> sipa: how probable is BIP32 deriving a key that’s >= the curve order? (N)
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1443 2014-03-26 16:26:10 <hearn> sipa: i’m thinking this is not worth having code to actually handle, but you’d know better than me
1444 2014-03-26 16:26:23 <sipa> hearn: less than 1 in 2^127
1445 2014-03-26 16:26:45 <hearn> yeah, that’s what i thought
1446 2014-03-26 16:26:54 <sipa> (iirc bip32 even mentions that chance)
1447 2014-03-26 16:26:59 <hearn> for some reason matija implemented code that loops to handle this case
1448 2014-03-26 16:27:00 <hearn> oh, it does?
1449 2014-03-26 16:27:15 <hearn> oh yes so it does
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1451 2014-03-26 16:27:25 <hearn> that would be why he wrote it
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1504 2014-03-26 17:08:54 <dcousens> sipa: interesting that PUSHDATA* allow for redundancy... ur BIP would make that invalid no?
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1510 2014-03-26 17:10:29 <dcousens> sipa: yeah, "Shortest possible data pushes", that'll be nice :)
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1523 2014-03-26 17:23:10 <dcousens> why is the txid reversed when serialized?
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1529 2014-03-26 17:24:32 <dcousens> that is, the byte order is reversed, I'm guessing the endianness is different for some reason?
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1531 2014-03-26 17:24:59 <hearn> jgarzik: re: cosign. i can’t help but feel that having special purpose web wallets for every feature is the wrong way to go
1532 2014-03-26 17:25:15 <hearn> jgarzik: we’re ending up with “almost but not quite web” wallets for cosigning, trezor, watchdog services, etc
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1538 2014-03-26 17:33:49 <ahmed__> hi guys
1539 2014-03-26 17:33:50 <sipa> hearn: i agree, but i'm afraid that in a first stage that's inevitable
1540 2014-03-26 17:33:54 <ahmed__> could someone tell me what : CBigNum(~uint256(0) >> 32); means
1541 2014-03-26 17:33:55 <hearn> indeed
1542 2014-03-26 17:34:05 <ahmed__> (in the 0x????? format)
1543 2014-03-26 17:34:09 <sipa> hearn: you need experience with feature before seeing how to integrate it in the big picture
1544 2014-03-26 17:35:01 <sipa> ahmed__: uint256(0) is the 256-bit number 0, ~ inverts all bits so you get 2^256-1, >> 32 shifts it down 32 bits, so (2^256-1)/2^32, so 2^224-1
1545 2014-03-26 17:35:19 <helo> slightly offtopic, but someone claims their btc was sent in this transaction without their involvement, from one (likely more from the looks of it) address generated with https://bitcoinvanity.appspot.com/ - https://blockchain.info/tx/9e95fd443621d3d9fc150f290144401feb1627573c9161beb08edb472069a819
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1549 2014-03-26 17:37:51 <ahmed__> sipa: so what would that be in the hex format?
1550 2014-03-26 17:38:09 <ahmed__> and is there a simple way (or a script i could use) to calculate it
1551 2014-03-26 17:38:22 <sipa> 0x00000000FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF....FFFF
1552 2014-03-26 17:38:27 adam3us has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
1553 2014-03-26 17:38:31 <hearn> sipa: yeah, i think it’s the wrong approach but i don’t have any good alternatives right now
1554 2014-03-26 17:38:43 <hearn> especially because the UX they want isn’t available in any generic desktop wallets right now
1555 2014-03-26 17:39:01 <hearn> but web wallets == pain. i wish people wouldn’t insist on trying to ram every peg into the HTML5 hole
1556 2014-03-26 17:39:17 <ahmed__> hearn: web wallets are pathetic anyway
1557 2014-03-26 17:39:23 <ahmed__> its for idiots who want to lose their coins
1558 2014-03-26 17:39:40 <ahmed__> inputs.io and everyother scamming webwallet has shown that
1559 2014-03-26 17:39:53 <hearn> in this case it doesn’t apply - these are web wallets that don’t keep your private keys
1560 2014-03-26 17:40:05 <hearn> in fact, they are sort of weird hybrids of web wallets and desktop wallets.
1561 2014-03-26 17:40:12 <sipa> which imho is a false sense of security :)
1562 2014-03-26 17:40:28 <hearn> basically web “sites” that use javascript tricks and browser extensions to act like desktop software, but which uses Chrome as a platform instead of something else
1563 2014-03-26 17:40:39 <ahmed__> sipa: + 1
1564 2014-03-26 17:40:41 <hearn> which doesn’t make a whole lot of sense because HTML5 is perhaps the worst app platform ever invented :)
1565 2014-03-26 17:40:44 <hearn> (except maybe win32)
1566 2014-03-26 17:40:48 <sipa> it's objectively better than a pure webwallet, but far from the same level of guarantee
1567 2014-03-26 17:40:57 <ahmed__> hearn: win32 is still bearable :P
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1569 2014-03-26 17:41:33 <ahmed__> sipa: now of an easy way or a script id be able to get the hex format of that myself?
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1575 2014-03-26 17:46:46 <Luke-Jr> hearn: HTML5 makes a good replacement for the X11 protocol
1576 2014-03-26 17:46:47 <Luke-Jr> <.<
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1578 2014-03-26 17:47:39 <hearn> sipa: well you end up with weird hacks too. i’m not convinced it’s easier to code. the trezor guys seem to have sunk a lot of time into their USB plugins and the BOP backend
1579 2014-03-26 17:47:43 <hearn> or at least that’s the impression i got
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1581 2014-03-26 17:48:04 <hearn> what we need is a super slick entirely cross-platform wallet that people feel they can easily add features to
1582 2014-03-26 17:48:19 <hearn> i mean, “Long-term, however, we believe it will be possible to implement SPV in the browser, where the only need for a server will be to bridge the Web RTC communication protocol with the real bitcoin p2p protocol. “
1583 2014-03-26 17:48:22 <hearn> but this makes no sense
1584 2014-03-26 17:48:30 <hearn> the browser was never designed to run something as complicated as a full-blown SPV wallet
1585 2014-03-26 17:48:41 <hearn> and using something designed for video chatting doesn’t make much sense as a result
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1587 2014-03-26 17:52:11 <maxplm> I just want a dumb key-storage and signing device that only communicates via qr codes
1588 2014-03-26 17:53:33 <topynate> hearn: that's a historical limitation tho, one that lots of work has already been done to overcome. it can't be too long before someone tries to compile an existing SPV wallet to asm.js
1589 2014-03-26 17:53:35 <dugo> dig out simh vax and 4.3 bsd, if you can make it run you can probably port it anywhere
1590 2014-03-26 17:53:45 <hearn> but that would be stupid
1591 2014-03-26 17:53:57 <hearn> HTML is not an app platform and hacks like asm.js just make it painfully obvious
1592 2014-03-26 17:54:22 <hearn> what’s worse, trying to turn it into one is one of the main things making the web insecure
1593 2014-03-26 17:54:24 <maaku> hearn: local storage and web rtc is perfectly performant enough to run a client-side spv wallet
1594 2014-03-26 17:54:56 <hearn> i didn’t say you can’t make it fast enough. i said it would be stupid. i mean, they’re going to want to change the entire P2P network to work around bizarre limitations of the web “platform”
1595 2014-03-26 17:55:10 <hearn> something so broken that you basically have to write in some higher level language that compiles down to the language browsers actually support!
1596 2014-03-26 17:55:37 <hearn> besides, iirc the blockchain.info iphone wallet was actually a web wallet in disguise and it took several seconds to calculate each signature ….. painful
1597 2014-03-26 17:56:26 <hearn> topynate: besides, the only mature SPV wallet is bitcoinj and you can’t run that on html5 no matter what because it relies on multi-threading.
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1604 2014-03-26 18:00:50 <hearn> i think the basic problem is that the only cross platform development frameworks that work are HTML and Java, and Java is out of fashion these dasy
1605 2014-03-26 18:00:55 <hearn> *days
1606 2014-03-26 18:01:09 <hearn> so people go for HTML, even though it has all sorts of problematic limitations, especially for building decentralised systems
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1612 2014-03-26 18:06:30 <topynate> hearn: i agree with that analysis. but i think that a lot of the limitations are due to being stuck in the web-browser, rather than anything particularly awful about HTML+JS per se
1613 2014-03-26 18:06:46 <hearn> hmm. aren’t the two rather heavily connected? :)
1614 2014-03-26 18:07:10 <hearn> i know some people use JS on the server side these days, and i’m not sure that’s a great idea either, but HTML seems fundamentally to be stuck inside the browser
1615 2014-03-26 18:07:40 <topynate> i'm thinking more along the lines of things like chrome apps
1616 2014-03-26 18:07:52 <hearn> chrome apps still run in a browser, even if they have more API’s they can access
1617 2014-03-26 18:07:59 <daybyter> I use java and return html + js to the client.
1618 2014-03-26 18:08:14 <hearn> using Chrome as a platform is a bit better than “pure web” except if you’re going to insist people use a giant runtime, it might as well be one that was designed for apps and not necessarily chrome :)
1619 2014-03-26 18:08:19 <daybyter> my html comes in a jar on the server.
1620 2014-03-26 18:08:28 <hearn> daybyter: sure. i meant on the desktop
1621 2014-03-26 18:08:40 <hearn> well, “client side”. obviously java is in fashion on android …. html not so popular there
1622 2014-03-26 18:08:57 <hearn> basically i think someone would have to prove it’s possible to make non-crappy java desktop apps
1623 2014-03-26 18:09:01 <daybyter> I used it in phonegap and want to use it again.
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1625 2014-03-26 18:09:25 <daybyter> just check the useragent on the server and then return different css, or so....I hope..
1626 2014-03-26 18:11:13 <daybyter> what are you coding?
1627 2014-03-26 18:12:04 <hearn> well i was talking about wallet apps
1628 2014-03-26 18:12:26 <daybyter> oh...cool..
1629 2014-03-26 18:12:37 <hearn> i.e. apps that are ideally cross-signed by multiple independent parties, where performance is important, and which talk to a p2p network. none of these things being particularly easy to pull off in html5
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1631 2014-03-26 18:13:13 <daybyter> you can't do that in html at all?
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1637 2014-03-26 18:16:30 <hearn> it’s hard. web browsers just download whatever is on the website, if it’s served by the right server
1638 2014-03-26 18:16:34 <topynate> well, chrome apps gets you a sockets api which is good enough for P2P unless you need bittorrent-level performance, which SPV doesn't, to my knowledge. and the app store is a reasonably secure delivery channel, although i don't think it supports multiple signatures
1639 2014-03-26 18:16:39 <hearn> you can try and hack around that with an extension
1640 2014-03-26 18:16:57 <hearn> but then you have the same problem with the extension (chrome silently auto updates them). plus at that point, might as well just write a chrome app
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1642 2014-03-26 18:17:10 <daybyter> but why?
1643 2014-03-26 18:17:11 <hearn> and then anyone who doesn’t want to use chrome has to download it and you’re back to requiring a big runtime - might as well use java
1644 2014-03-26 18:17:23 <hearn> which is far from perfect but at least is designed for writing apps
1645 2014-03-26 18:17:26 <daybyter> yeah...start with java.
1646 2014-03-26 18:17:37 <hearn> in _theory_ you can solve this problem with threshold RSA
1647 2014-03-26 18:17:38 * daybyter likes java a lot... :-)
1648 2014-03-26 18:17:45 <hearn> i have a library that claims to do this but i never got around to trying it
1649 2014-03-26 18:17:50 <hearn> i want to try it for android
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1651 2014-03-26 18:18:15 <hearn> but …. again, if you’re going to insist on chrome, you’re not really a web app at that point. it’s a regular app using an app runtime, which is fine by me, but i don’t think chrome is a particularly good one
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1653 2014-03-26 18:18:25 <hearn> the ONE saving grace it has, is that it’s already got lots of installs
1654 2014-03-26 18:18:40 <hearn> oh and if you want to support Chromebooks it’s your only choice of course
1655 2014-03-26 18:18:46 <christoph_> nsapi would give you some extras
1656 2014-03-26 18:19:26 <daybyter> phonegap gives you a quick start on android.
1657 2014-03-26 18:19:46 <daybyter> but onces an app gets more complicated I prefer a nice class structure.
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1659 2014-03-26 18:20:28 <christoph_> firefox addons and chrome extensions can easily wrap an nsapi object pretty easily
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1661 2014-03-26 18:20:48 <christoph_> having said that the idea of having to 'force' this is stupid, exactly as hearn says
1662 2014-03-26 18:21:00 <hearn> nsapi? you mean plugins?
1663 2014-03-26 18:21:04 <christoph_> ya
1664 2014-03-26 18:21:13 <hearn> i think browser makers are trying to kill that. at least chrome was, for a while
1665 2014-03-26 18:21:22 <hearn> (in favor of nacl + webgl + html5)
1666 2014-03-26 18:21:27 <christoph_> yeah, im supporting your point mostly
1667 2014-03-26 18:21:29 <hearn> but i think trezor are using it for USB support, so maybe
1668 2014-03-26 18:21:31 <christoph_> anything is a hack
1669 2014-03-26 18:21:36 <christoph_> to do this in a browser
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1674 2014-03-26 18:23:13 <christoph_> chrome still has it last time i was working on one
1675 2014-03-26 18:23:28 <christoph_> think you have to submit src if you want it on the appstore though
1676 2014-03-26 18:23:38 <christoph_> and tavis probably reads over it before bed
1677 2014-03-26 18:23:42 <daybyter> I only tried chrome for the chrome bot.
1678 2014-03-26 18:23:57 <daybyter> and then again to give chromecast a try.
1679 2014-03-26 18:24:07 <hearn> haha
1680 2014-03-26 18:24:15 <hearn> yeah. chrome security model: half sandboxing, half tavis
1681 2014-03-26 18:24:19 <daybyter> but I don't think it has a lot of users?
1682 2014-03-26 18:24:37 <christoph_> hearn: that goes for NT kernel and flash player i think too
1683 2014-03-26 18:25:45 <hearn> daybyter: chromecast? not sure. it’s pretty new
1684 2014-03-26 18:25:51 <daybyter> no...chrome.
1685 2014-03-26 18:25:56 <hearn> chrome? chrome has tons of users
1686 2014-03-26 18:26:12 <daybyter> anyone around here uses firefox.
1687 2014-03-26 18:26:25 <hearn> http://thenextweb.com/insider/2014/01/02/ie11-triples-market-share-10-42-firefox-slips-bit-chrome-gains-back-share/#!BuF4Y
1688 2014-03-26 18:26:29 <hearn> most people use IE
1689 2014-03-26 18:26:41 <hearn> of course for bitcoin sites this is likely to be quite different
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1713 2014-03-26 18:44:30 <waxwing> hearn, surely most don't use IE? unless you include Asia?
1714 2014-03-26 18:45:11 <hearn> it depends which stat counting site you use. StatCounter shows Chrome leading but still >25% use IE.  other sites show IE in the lead. i guess due to the different sites they’re measuring from.
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1716 2014-03-26 18:45:24 <hearn> a lot of people have to use IE at work so it also depends *when* you measure
1717 2014-03-26 18:46:21 <waxwing> hearn, i just meant, is it a worldwide stat or a US stat or..?
1718 2014-03-26 18:46:40 <waxwing> oh i see, it's from sites. hmm.
1719 2014-03-26 18:47:00 <hearn> http://www.netmarketshare.com/browser-market-share.aspx?qprid=0&qpcustomd=0
1720 2014-03-26 18:47:08 <hearn> it’s global, but they have filters so you can explore
1721 2014-03-26 18:47:18 <hearn> not that asia or people at work are unimportant ....
1722 2014-03-26 18:47:46 <waxwing> no, no. that huge IE share is doubtless coming from China and other parts of east Asia primarily. I guess.
1723 2014-03-26 18:47:51 uiop has joined
1724 2014-03-26 18:48:01 <waxwing> (no, no = no, they're not unimportant)
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1726 2014-03-26 18:49:34 <hearn> yes quite possibly. though in the west market share is pretty fragmented between chrome, firefox, ie and safari i guess
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1729 2014-03-26 18:51:04 <christoph_> just ask a web dev if IE is still used, he might punch you
1730 2014-03-26 18:51:20 <hearn> saivann makes sure bitcoin.org works in IE6 (!)
1731 2014-03-26 18:51:27 <hearn> because it still has significant traffic from china, sigh
1732 2014-03-26 18:51:53 <christoph_> haha excellent
1733 2014-03-26 18:53:25 <topynate> IE is ubiquitous in south korea, there's a law mandating the use of an activeX plugin for customer authentication. no kidding.
1734 2014-03-26 18:53:44 <topynate> http://www.zdnet.com/south-koreans-use-internet-explorer-its-the-law-7000022827/
1735 2014-03-26 18:53:57 <christoph_> time to start coding an activeX wallet i guess
1736 2014-03-26 18:54:06 <sipa> a BeOS one
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1742 2014-03-26 18:57:14 <olalonde1> impossible to use online banking in china without IE too :(
1743 2014-03-26 18:59:31 <maaku> a BeOS port would make me very happy :)
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1771 2014-03-26 19:24:31 <iwilcox> How big is the testnet chain at the moment?
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1775 2014-03-26 19:27:13 <ascent_> iwilcox: 208121 blocks.
1776 2014-03-26 19:27:51 <iwilcox> In GB?
1777 2014-03-26 19:28:25 <ascent_> 1.1GB (du -hcs on testnet3 directory)
1778 2014-03-26 19:28:27 <iwilcox> It's a bandwidth concern (I'm metered by day, free by night, and trying to decide whether to wait til the wee small hours to grab it)
1779 2014-03-26 19:28:35 <iwilcox> OK, thanks muchly
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1793 2014-03-26 19:40:21 <olalonde1> is there an online wallet service for testnet?
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1799 2014-03-26 19:43:37 <olalonde1> also, it seems bitcoind stops downloading blocks after number of connections drops below maxconnections.. is this expected behavior?
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1808 2014-03-26 19:49:52 <sipa> olalonde1: it randomly stops from time to time
1809 2014-03-26 19:50:02 <sipa> olalonde1: known suboptimal behaviour, being worked on
1810 2014-03-26 19:50:54 <olalonde1> ok cool
1811 2014-03-26 19:50:59 <olalonde1> should I restart bitcoind or just wait?
1812 2014-03-26 19:51:07 <sipa> both will work
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1817 2014-03-26 19:56:10 <hearn> alpha bip32 hd wallets code posted for bitcoinj
1818 2014-03-26 19:56:17 <hearn> still a lot to do, but it’s getting there ....
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1820 2014-03-26 19:57:18 <SoftwareMechanic> Cool, I'm gonna check that out
1821 2014-03-26 19:57:27 <SoftwareMechanic> Any multisig support?
1822 2014-03-26 19:59:56 <hearn> bitcoinj is a library. sure, it has some support for building multisig transactions, but for a wallet to use them for most interesting apps there is a lot of workflow that needs to be added on top
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1824 2014-03-26 20:00:30 <jgarzik> hearn, +1 RE bip32
1825 2014-03-26 20:00:46 <jgarzik> hearn, bitcore just gained support.  I am going to add support to picocoin (my C library)
1826 2014-03-26 20:00:51 <hearn> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/bitcoinj/vEoBL-cyZhA
1827 2014-03-26 20:01:03 <hearn> cool
1828 2014-03-26 20:01:10 <hearn> it’s a lot of work for me because the bcj wallet already has so many features
1829 2014-03-26 20:01:24 <hearn> so i need to support still importing old non-deterministic keys, encryption, watching wallets, bloom filtering, etc
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1831 2014-03-26 20:02:08 <hearn> backwards compatible serialization too. and then api docs and lots of unit tests.
1832 2014-03-26 20:02:18 <hearn> and command line tool support. phew :)
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1834 2014-03-26 20:02:44 <hearn> jgarzik: btw, i think bcj+electrum+trezor are all going to use a different structure than in BIP32. so maybe bitcore wants to join us
1835 2014-03-26 20:03:17 <sipa> hearn: which?
1836 2014-03-26 20:03:34 <hearn> the one with lots of levels. sigh.
1837 2014-03-26 20:03:44 <sipa> elaborate?
1838 2014-03-26 20:03:51 <sipa> maybe that should be documented somewhere...
1839 2014-03-26 20:03:59 <sipa> *standardized
1840 2014-03-26 20:04:09 <hearn> yes slush said he’d push it to bitcoin-development and then nobody did
1841 2014-03-26 20:04:12 <jgarzik> +1 sipa
1842 2014-03-26 20:04:13 <hearn> it’s /m/cointype/reserved/account'/change/n
1843 2014-03-26 20:04:53 <hearn> which imo is overkill but it’s what we ended up agreeing to during the discussions. “cointype” is because thomas v is planning to do a watchdog service integrated with electrum and wants a different kind of “cointype” for n-of-m keys
1844 2014-03-26 20:05:11 <sipa> meh
1845 2014-03-26 20:05:13 <hearn> i.e. if you import seed words from one wallet, you should see the non-watchdogged money and the watchdogged money should be invisible to you
1846 2014-03-26 20:06:08 <hearn> oh
1847 2014-03-26 20:06:16 <hearn> it might actually be /m/cointype/reserved’/account'/change/n
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1849 2014-03-26 20:06:59 <sipa> having non-hardened levels above hardened levels doesn't do much
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1870 2014-03-26 20:18:05 <ryanxcharles> hearn: would love to see the above discussion reflected in a post to bitcoin-development so we can be sure to implement the same thing in bitcore
1871 2014-03-26 20:18:39 <hearn> yeah i’ll post tomorrow or friday
1872 2014-03-26 20:18:45 <ryanxcharles> awesome, thanks
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1894 2014-03-26 20:43:06 <Simon___> why does the bitcoin protocol wiki spesification claim that txn_count always is 0?
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1918 2014-03-26 21:05:26 <sipa> Simon___: where?
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1921 2014-03-26 21:06:24 <Simon___> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Protocol_specification#Block_Headers
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1923 2014-03-26 21:06:46 <bdhuser> that seems strange
1924 2014-03-26 21:06:53 <bdhuser> is there any upper or lower bound ?
1925 2014-03-26 21:07:47 <sipa> bdhuser: when sending a header, it is always 0 as there are no transactions that follow
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1927 2014-03-26 21:08:11 <sipa> bdhuser: when sending a block, it is of course the actual transaction count followed by the actual transactions
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1931 2014-03-26 21:09:07 <bdhuser> I see, so when it is sent in response to getheaders, why is it 0, why does it not indicate how many transactions that actual block has?
1932 2014-03-26 21:09:23 <sipa> because that is impossible to validate
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1934 2014-03-26 21:09:46 <sipa> and bitcoin tries to never make any assumptions about unvalidated data, so it couldn't use it anyway
1935 2014-03-26 21:10:04 <bdhuser> I see
1936 2014-03-26 21:10:04 <sipa> imho, headers should just have had no txn count at all
1937 2014-03-26 21:10:14 <sipa> but that's a historical quirk
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1939 2014-03-26 21:10:38 <sipa> it's a 1.25% unnecessary overhead when transmitting headers
1940 2014-03-26 21:11:45 <bdhuser> so if I ask for headers from peers, I will have to ask for all transactions belonging to that block to actually find out how many there are
1941 2014-03-26 21:13:55 <sipa> yes
1942 2014-03-26 21:14:10 <sipa> you can ask for filtered blocks though
1943 2014-03-26 21:14:21 <sipa> but the result is not trustable
1944 2014-03-26 21:14:47 <bdhuser> when filtered? is that because you cannot verify hash?
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1948 2014-03-26 21:25:32 <sipa> no, you just can't verify that the claimed number of transactions is correct
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1956 2014-03-26 21:26:40 <bdhuser> Well, if I have a block header, and a full set of transactions that someone claims belongs to that header, cant I just hash the whole thing and compare to checksum in header?
1957 2014-03-26 21:26:54 <bdhuser> that way, having a full set of transactions allows you to verify that you have them all
1958 2014-03-26 21:27:16 <bdhuser> but if you know you have a subset, you cant verify that they all in fact belong?
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1964 2014-03-26 21:32:56 <sipa> bdhuser: filtered blocks do not contain the full list of transactions
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1966 2014-03-26 21:33:03 <sipa> unless you match everything of course
1967 2014-03-26 21:33:11 <bdhuser> yes, that was my point
1968 2014-03-26 21:33:24 <sipa> but then you're better off asking for non-filtered ones
1969 2014-03-26 21:33:30 <bdhuser> when you get unfiltered sets of transactions, you can verify using hash
1970 2014-03-26 21:33:38 <bdhuser> ok
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2040 2014-03-26 22:46:05 <wizkid057> not sure if this is the right place to point this out, but it looks like some vanitygen type service may have an issue: https://blockchain.info/tx/5dae057ecc1321348d5f1d7a4cac9d0cf8ed516c612659f57ce7f08b5f90065a
2041 2014-03-26 22:47:22 <wizkid057> owner of one of those addrs uses Eligius and is complaining thinking Eligius "reversed" their payout... but isnt responding since I asked how they created the address
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2046 2014-03-26 22:48:31 <sipa> "reversed" ?
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2050 2014-03-26 22:48:53 <wizkid057> sipa: just someone not knowledgable enough to know thats impossible looking for answers, heh
2051 2014-03-26 22:49:51 <wizkid057> https://blockchain.info/address/1BishopmKrNu3FrXpmbECzdUZZjFBCzaAU <--- they received a ~1.2 BTC payout from eligius that was stolen in the previously mentioned txn
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2053 2014-03-26 22:51:21 <wizkid057> https://bitcoinvanity.appspot.com/ ... guess that could explain it
2054 2014-03-26 22:52:36 <sipa> stolen?
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2056 2014-03-26 22:52:44 <wizkid057> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=118968.0;all
2057 2014-03-26 22:52:48 <sipa> heh
2058 2014-03-26 22:53:07 <wizkid057> someone supposedly hacked their private key generator 4 months ago...
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2060 2014-03-26 22:53:17 <wizkid057> oh well
2061 2014-03-26 22:53:33 <wizkid057> guess that concludes my investigation
2062 2014-03-26 22:53:34 <wizkid057> lol
2063 2014-03-26 22:53:51 <topynate> hm. they have a bit in their help section talking about some sort of homomorphic addition of keys... a broken random number gen wouldn't affect that
2064 2014-03-26 22:54:14 <sipa> allegedly the html was changed to something that uploaded the generated keys elsewhere
2065 2014-03-26 22:54:51 <wizkid057> looks like it worked, to the tune of about 6 BTC
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