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55 2014-03-29 01:02:29 <dogish> Hi gang, anyone willing to spend 5 or 10 minutes to help me solve some doubts?
56 2014-03-29 01:03:02 <shesek> dogish, it would be easier to do so if you asked the question
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59 2014-03-29 01:05:24 <dogish> shesek, i'm looking into bitcoind for my system
60 2014-03-29 01:05:44 <dogish> was wondering if it's possible to have multiple wallets running in one system with one copy of the blockchain
61 2014-03-29 01:06:02 <Luke-Jr> dogish: it's not.
62 2014-03-29 01:06:06 <shesek> depends on how you define "wallets"
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65 2014-03-29 01:06:25 <shesek> if you mean addresses, then yes
66 2014-03-29 01:06:40 <shesek> bitcoind also allows to group addresses into accounts, and you can have multiple accounts
67 2014-03-29 01:06:49 <shesek> what are you trying to do exactly?
68 2014-03-29 01:06:53 nsh_ has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
69 2014-03-29 01:07:09 <shesek> I think the comment from the topic applies well here - "tell us what you're trying to do, not how you're trying to do it"
70 2014-03-29 01:07:11 <dogish> Ok so what about thin clients? i could theoretically submit the transaction to a node?
71 2014-03-29 01:07:38 <dogish> I just don't want to annoy people with my amateur questions.
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74 2014-03-29 01:08:37 <dogish> I'm trying to have a large number of wallets administered by one system basically.
75 2014-03-29 01:08:51 <kazcw> why do you need a large number of wallets?
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77 2014-03-29 01:10:05 <dogish> Distributing the coins so in case of attack not all bitcoins are compromised.
78 2014-03-29 01:10:37 <kazcw> so this is a system for protecting your personal bitcoins?
79 2014-03-29 01:13:20 <sipa> if you want to separate them, why want many on the same system?
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81 2014-03-29 01:14:55 <coryfields> jgarzik: ping
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83 2014-03-29 01:15:30 <shesek> dogish, how do you see this helping?
84 2014-03-29 01:15:46 <shesek> if they're all on the same system, compromising one of them would compromise all of them
85 2014-03-29 01:16:35 <maaku> lots of questions about multisig going on. anyone know why?
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87 2014-03-29 01:16:50 <shesek> maaku, I wondered about that too...
88 2014-03-29 01:16:57 <sipa> where?
89 2014-03-29 01:16:58 <shesek> seems like there's a lot of multisig activity going on
90 2014-03-29 01:17:24 <maaku> ah dexX7 is one of the counterparty guys, that must be why
91 2014-03-29 01:17:24 <shesek> lots of people at coinsummit told me they're working on multisig related stuff
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102 2014-03-29 01:33:16 <ahmed_> hi guys
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104 2014-03-29 01:33:39 <ahmed_> does anyone know how i can check if an address is valid using petertodd's python bitcoin rpc
105 2014-03-29 01:34:28 <ahmed_> sorry jgarzik's python bitcoin rpc
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107 2014-03-29 01:35:32 <kazcw> what do you mean by "valid"? are you checking whether user-supplied data could feasibly be an address?
108 2014-03-29 01:35:39 <ahmed_> correct
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110 2014-03-29 01:36:06 <ahmed_> (in php i'd normally do validateaddress and check the isvalid) but i dunno what to do here
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113 2014-03-29 01:39:00 <maaku> ahmed_: rpc has validateaddress, but you shouldn't need that
114 2014-03-29 01:39:15 <ahmed_> maaku: im building an irc faucet bot
115 2014-03-29 01:39:29 <ahmed_> so ill be storing the addresses in a db to be manually sent later
116 2014-03-29 01:39:31 <maaku> just use whatever his bitcoin-address class is (it's called BitcoinAddress in python-bitcoin, my fork of jgarzik's pynode)
117 2014-03-29 01:39:36 <ahmed_> which is kind of why i want to validate it
118 2014-03-29 01:40:02 <maaku> by 'you shouldn't need that' i mean you don't need to ask the bitcoin daemon
119 2014-03-29 01:40:08 <maaku> there are python tools to tell you
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122 2014-03-29 01:40:56 <maaku> e.g. in python-bitcoin (my package) you'd do BitcoinAddress(user_string.decode('base58')) and know it is valid if it doesn't throw an exception
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126 2014-03-29 01:41:27 <maaku> of course it could be 1BitcoinEaterAddressDontSendf59kuE
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128 2014-03-29 01:42:11 <ahmed_> bitcoinrpc.data.AddressValidation(isscript=False, account=u'', ismine=True, isvalid=True, iscompressed=True, pubkey=u'0288461f2c15ce643db8ad4c7ac4a3725668d1603f3bec6d4ecbf961564d407582', address=u'DLLrvvcPzi6uqcXFfeskx4M3vephaU9Eko')
129 2014-03-29 01:42:25 <ahmed_> thats what its returning atm when i do validateaddress(address)
130 2014-03-29 01:42:41 <ahmed_> so how would i be able to check if isvalid=True?
131 2014-03-29 01:45:25 <ahmed_> maaku: ^
132 2014-03-29 01:45:26 <sipa> what programming language is that?
133 2014-03-29 01:45:34 <ahmed_> sipa: python
134 2014-03-29 01:45:43 <sipa> then learn python
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136 2014-03-29 01:45:58 <sipa> sorry, that was harsher than i intended it
137 2014-03-29 01:46:02 <ahmed_> sipa: normally i'd know what to do but ive tried everything i can think of but still no idea
138 2014-03-29 01:46:21 <sipa> just x.isvalid
139 2014-03-29 01:46:23 <sipa> ?
140 2014-03-29 01:46:24 <ahmed_> (it could be cause im coding at 2am :P)
141 2014-03-29 01:46:27 <sipa> with x the object returned?
142 2014-03-29 01:46:34 <sipa> look at the code...
143 2014-03-29 01:46:59 <ahmed_> ill shoot myself if that works
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146 2014-03-29 01:47:51 <ahmed_> sipa: thanks. shows how much of an idiot i am lol
147 2014-03-29 01:47:56 <ahmed_> that works perfectly
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256 2014-03-29 03:57:56 <Luke-Jr> wumpus: is it expected/known that Bitcoin Core GUI does not build without bdb even if wallet is disabled?
257 2014-03-29 03:58:17 <Luke-Jr> in fact, I think it fails to build at all if wallet is disabled, even with bdb..
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270 2014-03-29 04:18:19 <Luke-Jr> ⦠why does bitcoin-cli build addrman, alert, etc? -.-
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302 2014-03-29 05:00:08 <wumpus> no clue
303 2014-03-29 05:00:33 <wumpus> there are lots of build system issues though, building a few extra targets seems like a very low priority one
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406 2014-03-29 06:49:57 <SrPx> OK guys, what is the correct way to accept bitcoins payments automatically? That is, I'd like to be able to create wallets and check their $ programatically. Is there a name for this, so I can look an API for my language (node.js)? Also, how can I certificate such API is safe?
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408 2014-03-29 06:53:59 <copumpkin> bitcoind has an RPC interface
409 2014-03-29 06:54:17 <Luke-Jr> SrPx: I think you mean accounts, not wallets. bitcoind up to 0.9 support this, but don't use it. there are no public implementations that are sane to use, AFAIK.
410 2014-03-29 06:54:53 <SrPx> I think I mean address*
411 2014-03-29 06:55:11 smash has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
412 2014-03-29 06:55:25 <SrPx> So for something like that I have to implement it myself?
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531 2014-03-29 09:36:14 <kajinp> will someone explain to midnightmagic that buttercoin isn't an altcoin. lol. it's an open source exchange
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660 2014-03-29 10:59:40 <starstuffer> is there an easy way to get all the transactions for a particular address?
661 2014-03-29 11:00:15 <starstuffer> or do i have to do a listunspent and iterate over all the tx's and collect the ones that match the addr i'm looking for?
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674 2014-03-29 11:12:13 <rnicoll> starstuffer, sorry, not a clue, but feel the channel isn't entirely dead :)
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692 2014-03-29 11:29:37 <starstuffer> rnicoll: do you know of another blockchain website for testnet besides btclook?
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695 2014-03-29 11:30:08 <starstuffer> it has a lime green banner on the home page. i can't remember what it's called
696 2014-03-29 11:30:22 <ribasushi> starstuffer: what' about https://blockexplorer.com/testnet
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698 2014-03-29 11:32:03 <starstuffer> no i'm trying to remember a different one
699 2014-03-29 11:32:58 <kajinp> http://money.cnn.com/2014/02/20/news/economy/china-art-laundering/
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701 2014-03-29 11:34:13 <starstuffer> it was bitcore
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718 2014-03-29 12:04:17 <RoboTeddy> once coinbase rewards are near nil, why will mining be profitable? it seems like the dominant strategy for any individual miner is to mine any tx with fee > epsilon, where epsilon is cost of tx verification. (this assumes no limit on block size)
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720 2014-03-29 12:09:13 <maaku> that's a big assumption
721 2014-03-29 12:14:22 <RoboTeddy> okay, so is correct assumption that block size will be limited, and thus cause competition among transactions for limited space? in that case, miner rewards are dictated by marginal importance of last transaction that fits in block
722 2014-03-29 12:14:38 <RoboTeddy> (i.e., miner rewards are dictated in large part by block size)
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733 2014-03-29 12:35:59 <kajinp> since mining is centralized, the miners can dictate fees...
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735 2014-03-29 12:43:31 <arubi> kajinp, really? can the miners actually ddos the network and still make a profit by purposely mining empty blocks?
736 2014-03-29 12:44:19 <kajinp> they could... but more likely is theyll just refuse to process low-fee transactions and ignore any blocks that violate the policy
737 2014-03-29 12:45:45 <arubi> hmm.. really interesting
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818 2014-03-29 14:17:33 <bedeho> Prior to BIP 37, was did SVP simply mean that you downloaded a full block and checked for your transaction?
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824 2014-03-29 14:24:45 <axilla> is the method that onename is taking with trying to simplify the bitcoin wallet address issue the cleanest method? Should we be basing the existance of technology for one altcoin on another?
825 2014-03-29 14:26:34 <sipa> bedeho: yes, and that didn't change - only the server now does it for you
826 2014-03-29 14:26:49 <sipa> axilla: no idea what you are referring to?
827 2014-03-29 14:27:31 <bedeho> sipa: I see
828 2014-03-29 14:27:38 <axilla> https://www.onename.io/
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831 2014-03-29 14:28:23 <axilla> OneName is a decentralized identity system (DIS) with a user directory made of entries in a decentralized key-value store (the Namecoin blockchain).
832 2014-03-29 14:28:29 <sipa> axilla: seems like a bad idea
833 2014-03-29 14:28:35 <sipa> no privacy
834 2014-03-29 14:28:39 <sipa> single address
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836 2014-03-29 14:28:45 <sipa> no authentication
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838 2014-03-29 14:29:24 <axilla> right
839 2014-03-29 14:29:35 <axilla> i guess that's what i was getting at.
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842 2014-03-29 14:35:19 <MaxSan> sipa
843 2014-03-29 14:35:22 <MaxSan> axilla
844 2014-03-29 14:35:26 <MaxSan> not correct
845 2014-03-29 14:35:26 <axilla> yes
846 2014-03-29 14:35:35 <MaxSan> they use a deterministic key
847 2014-03-29 14:35:38 <MaxSan> generated on the client
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850 2014-03-29 14:36:01 <axilla> why namecoin though?
851 2014-03-29 14:36:09 <axilla> doesn't that create to many points of failure?
852 2014-03-29 14:36:33 <axilla> i mean now we're using one blockchain to surve the purpose of another?
853 2014-03-29 14:37:23 <axilla> why not their own blockchain or something like twister.
854 2014-03-29 14:39:08 <MaxSan> are you asking why merged mining
855 2014-03-29 14:39:09 <MaxSan> ?
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857 2014-03-29 14:43:35 <wumpus> is -printblocktree supposed to print everything on one long line, or did we have a regression there?
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883 2014-03-29 15:14:22 <bedeho> sipa: Why is a node willing to broadcast any information which is not directly related to a block it has mined? which really is almost all txs,blocks? also peer information I guess?
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889 2014-03-29 15:19:30 <wumpus> because nodes that are nice P2P citizens share received information with others, how else would new nodes (or nodes that were disconnected for a while) get started?
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891 2014-03-29 15:21:44 <wumpus> if not, they don't define NODE_NETWORK and they don't need to provide blocks...
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906 2014-03-29 15:36:17 <sipa> wumpus: i thought we had gotten rid of -printblocktree...
907 2014-03-29 15:37:01 <sipa> bedeho: running a full node is almost always withoiut direct reward or compensation
908 2014-03-29 15:37:15 <sipa> bedeho: but it makes the network valuable
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910 2014-03-29 15:38:42 <copumpkin> I wonder if it can be incentivized somehow
911 2014-03-29 15:38:51 <bedeho> isnt the point of running a full node to get rewards from mining, either directly or as part of some pool?
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913 2014-03-29 15:39:25 <sipa> bedeho: that was satoshi's hooe, but it is not sustainable
914 2014-03-29 15:39:56 <sipa> bedeho: ultimately, you run a full node because you want to be able to verify that nobody is cheating
915 2014-03-29 15:40:00 <hearn> copumpkin: nodes could charge via micropayment channels for service in theory but it gives a circularity problem
916 2014-03-29 15:40:05 <copumpkin> yeah
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918 2014-03-29 15:40:15 <hearn> you canât pay to use the network unless you have bitcoins. you canât get bitcoins unless you can use the network.
919 2014-03-29 15:40:24 <bedeho> sipa: but you still dont need to broadcast to do that, right?
920 2014-03-29 15:40:49 <copumpkin> I gotta say, the blockchain is getting rather large on my computer :)
921 2014-03-29 15:41:15 <bedeho> perhaps people want to verify, and the only robust way to do it is to use standard client - since it is so complex
922 2014-03-29 15:41:40 <bedeho> i.e. , its not worth it to try to write a new client to not broadcast, since bitcoin is so complicated to get right?
923 2014-03-29 15:41:52 <sipa> bedeho: it is open source, they can make it not relay anymore
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926 2014-03-29 15:42:28 <sipa> bedeho: rewriting the validation rules and hoping to get them right bug-by-bug (which you must if you want to reach consensus) is crazy
927 2014-03-29 15:42:39 <bedeho> right, ok, Ive just sort of got the impression that you need to be pretty knowledgable to do anything with btc sourc
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930 2014-03-29 15:43:05 <sipa> bedeho: run it with a huge relaytxfee setting, and it will not relay anything
931 2014-03-29 15:43:14 <sipa> no need to change the source even
932 2014-03-29 15:43:18 <bedeho> ok
933 2014-03-29 15:43:25 <wumpus> sipa: well it's still in master, I'm fine with removing it, it was broken for a long time without anyone noticing
934 2014-03-29 15:43:41 <bedeho> so people just dont bother to do this then? not much benefit in being a free rider so to speak?
935 2014-03-29 15:44:21 <sipa> bedeho: well you have to download blocks anyway, relaying them and transactions is ast most a constant factor more bandwidth
936 2014-03-29 15:44:39 <sipa> bedeho: and as long as block sozes are limited, that remains limited too
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938 2014-03-29 15:45:32 <bedeho> sipa: I see, ok
939 2014-03-29 15:45:48 <wumpus> people won't bother with that because they would likely just run a SPV client if they're interested in low bandwidth
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941 2014-03-29 15:46:53 <bedeho> wumpus: well SPV dont contribute anything to network anyway, right? I was more wondering, for miners, why do they bother... they have mining incentives, but no broadcast incentives
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944 2014-03-29 15:48:07 <wumpus> bedeho: they at least have incentive to relay the blocks they build on top of
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946 2014-03-29 15:48:24 <bedeho> wumpus: thats a very good point
947 2014-03-29 15:48:35 <bedeho> no hold on
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950 2014-03-29 15:48:43 <bedeho> thats really a public good sort of thing
951 2014-03-29 15:48:46 <bedeho> I think
952 2014-03-29 15:49:02 <bedeho> they can let other people do that
953 2014-03-29 15:49:14 <bedeho> what they HAVE to broadcast, are blocks they mine
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955 2014-03-29 15:49:49 <bedeho> I mean, all of this sort of overlooks that broadcasting is quite cheap, but one can imagine it wasnt, like if btc was the world currency or something
956 2014-03-29 15:51:11 <wumpus> it's one of those 'if no one was doing it, there would be no network so nothing to talk about' things
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958 2014-03-29 15:51:31 <bedeho> yeah
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960 2014-03-29 15:52:29 <wumpus> miners don't *have* to include transactions either, but they do, because they have a stake in the network actually working (otherwise their rewards and fees would be worthless)
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963 2014-03-29 15:54:36 <Burrito> Also they collect the fees for all the transactions they include - the fees attached to each transaction is part of their incentive to include the transaction.
964 2014-03-29 15:54:57 <bedeho> yes, in their own mined block yes
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967 2014-03-29 15:55:39 <wumpus> right, there is some incentive, but they could be much more selective in including transactions than they are
968 2014-03-29 15:56:03 <jcorgan> bedeho: miners still have the incentive to broadcast the blocks they build on as it lessens the chance of being orphaned
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970 2014-03-29 15:56:38 <Burrito> wumpus, I hear Discus Fish is very selective.
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972 2014-03-29 15:57:24 <bedeho> jcorgan: well, their marginal contribution for the network to accept this branch because of that marginal broadcast is likely 0?
973 2014-03-29 15:57:55 <bedeho> That is to say, it has neve happened that a miner has broadcastet a tx it will later build on, and that network would have rejected this branch if this spesific node had not done so
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975 2014-03-29 15:58:19 <bedeho> so long as this never happens (or is extremly rare), there is no marginal incentive for the miner
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977 2014-03-29 15:58:55 <bedeho> to my mind anyway
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979 2014-03-29 15:59:25 <gmaxwell> bedeho: broadcasting is effectively free; and keeping the network working well is valuable, since you want the bitcoins you recieve to actually be worth something.
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981 2014-03-29 16:01:08 <bedeho> gmaxwell: yes, low cost of broadcasting seems like a big factor here, but what if btc was huge, then cumulative cost of all this broadcasting could become relevant, and if incentives are not aligned at that point, then perhaps it could be a problem
982 2014-03-29 16:01:41 <wumpus> heh, with so much invested in special-purpose double SHA256 hashing chips, miners really want things to continue running
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984 2014-03-29 16:02:49 <bedeho> gmaxwell: I agree that you want coins to be worth something, but if their worth is not actually depended on your actions, then incentives are not really there, ... same as trying to drive less to safe the earth, .. if everyone did it, it could work, but doing individually is sort of "irrational"
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987 2014-03-29 16:03:43 <bedeho> anyway, I surmise its not a big issue
988 2014-03-29 16:04:01 <hearn> at the moment we have a bit under 10,000 nodes which is quite a lot
989 2014-03-29 16:04:04 <hearn> for our level of traffic
990 2014-03-29 16:04:12 <hearn> a bigger issue than incentives to run, is incentives to upgrade :)
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996 2014-03-29 16:08:30 <wumpus> well they should only upgrade if they agree with the updated network rules, if the new rules are better to them that's an incentive in itself
997 2014-03-29 16:08:58 <gmaxwell> hm? people seem to be upgrading pretty okay generally.
998 2014-03-29 16:09:02 <wumpus> (ie, making something new possible, increasing the value of the network)
999 2014-03-29 16:09:46 <gmaxwell> right now my laptop outbound has
1000 2014-03-29 16:09:46 <gmaxwell> bitcoind getpeerinfo | grep subver | sort | uniq -c 2 "subver" : "/Satoshi:0.8.6/", 5 "subver" : "/Satoshi:0.9.0/", 1 "subver" : "/Satoshi:0.9.99/",
1001 2014-03-29 16:09:54 <wumpus> in the case of bugfixes and DDoS fixes it's even more a no-brainer
1002 2014-03-29 16:10:14 <hearn> this chart shows how weâre doing quite well
1003 2014-03-29 16:10:15 <hearn> http://getaddr.bitnodes.io/dashboard/chart/?days=30
1004 2014-03-29 16:10:21 <gmaxwell> that came out confusing, but it's 6 0.9.0+ to 2 0.8.6 plus.
1005 2014-03-29 16:10:23 <hearn> seems like thereâs about a third of the network that doesnât upgrade
1006 2014-03-29 16:10:35 <hearn> but the other two thirds are upgrading at a fairly good pace
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1013 2014-03-29 16:16:50 <Luke-Jr> hearn: define good pace
1014 2014-03-29 16:16:58 <hearn> well, look at the graph
1015 2014-03-29 16:17:05 <Luke-Jr> only about 27% of the network is upgraded right now
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1018 2014-03-29 16:18:36 <gmaxwell> Luke-Jr: dunno about that, I think there is a fair amount of double counting from dynamic ips.
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1021 2014-03-29 16:18:52 <gmaxwell> in any case 0.9 just recently came out, and I think that the progress is fine.
1022 2014-03-29 16:19:23 <gmaxwell> support for important infrastructure which can't just easily upgrade necessitates compatibility be tended carefully in any case.
1023 2014-03-29 16:20:51 <sipa> hearn: i count 6200 well-reachable nodes
1024 2014-03-29 16:20:59 <denisx> Iam still waiting for the freebsd port
1025 2014-03-29 16:21:19 <sipa> denisx: who maintains that?
1026 2014-03-29 16:21:27 <denisx> robbak@robbak.com
1027 2014-03-29 16:22:16 <gmaxwell> what do we need to fix so that freebsd support is effortless and why haven't those patches been submitted as pull req?
1028 2014-03-29 16:24:15 <sipa> gmaxwell: we've had patches from freebsd people before
1029 2014-03-29 16:24:37 <sipa> gmaxwell: i believe it's just their package description that needs updating
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1057 2014-03-29 16:55:07 <hearn> gmaxwell: nice! the paper you mentioned is now available
1058 2014-03-29 16:55:12 <hearn> and they did their integration into bitcoinj
1059 2014-03-29 16:55:16 <hearn> i wonder if it will be made public and if itâs mergable
1060 2014-03-29 16:55:56 * hearn emails them
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1074 2014-03-29 17:08:36 <bedeho> hearn: if you receive a version msg with frelay=false, does that mean that none of the filter commands will have any effect? or will they all have the intended effect after you do filterload?
1075 2014-03-29 17:08:48 aielima has joined
1076 2014-03-29 17:08:58 <hearn> see the bip for the specification of that flag
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1108 2014-03-29 17:51:39 <devrandom> gmaxwell: you said "Basically you can do an interactive step
1109 2014-03-29 17:51:39 <devrandom> to generate a master pubkey and then use BIP32 non-hardened derivation
1110 2014-03-29 17:51:44 <devrandom> oops
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1112 2014-03-29 17:52:29 <gmaxwell> hm?
1113 2014-03-29 17:52:37 <devrandom> I'm wondering - the BIP32 children might not be related in the right way for threshold ECDSA to run?
1114 2014-03-29 17:53:09 <devrandom> gmaxwell: I think that's why they have a different way to do HD in section 3.3 of the paper
1115 2014-03-29 17:53:52 <gmaxwell> devrandom: the scheme they give in the paper is precisely BIP32
1116 2014-03-29 17:54:05 <gmaxwell> (they leave out the hardened stuff because its incompatible)
1117 2014-03-29 17:54:31 <devrandom> oh, got it
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1119 2014-03-29 17:55:15 <devrandom> interesting that the math just ended up being compatible...
1120 2014-03-29 17:56:10 <gmaxwell> I'm not at all surprised by it... it was known to me to be compatible with schnorr threshold signatures.
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1137 2014-03-29 18:05:02 <devrandom> good foresight then :)
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1172 2014-03-29 18:44:12 <elichai2> hi
1173 2014-03-29 18:44:18 <elichai2> i want to compile bitcoin git
1174 2014-03-29 18:44:27 <elichai2> so i install all the deps
1175 2014-03-29 18:44:31 <elichai2> and the GUI deps
1176 2014-03-29 18:44:31 SwampTony has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
1177 2014-03-29 18:44:48 <elichai2> but i have no 'bitcoin-qt' just 'bitcoind' and 'bitcoin-cli'
1178 2014-03-29 18:45:09 Neozonz has quit (Disc!~Neozonz@unaffiliated/neozonz|Read error: Operation timed out)
1179 2014-03-29 18:45:15 <sipa> bitvoin-qt is created in the src/qt sundir faik
1180 2014-03-29 18:45:26 <sipa> *bitcoin-qt
1181 2014-03-29 18:45:29 <sipa> *subdir
1182 2014-03-29 18:45:35 <sipa> *afaik
1183 2014-03-29 18:46:12 <elichai2> thanks :)
1184 2014-03-29 18:46:16 bkbk has joined
1185 2014-03-29 18:46:24 <elichai2> can i now remove all the source files somehow?
1186 2014-03-29 18:46:34 <sipa> why?
1187 2014-03-29 18:46:43 <sipa> yes, you can
1188 2014-03-29 18:46:47 <elichai2> idk it's just annoying
1189 2014-03-29 18:46:51 <elichai2> and taking space
1190 2014-03-29 18:46:54 <elichai2> how?
1191 2014-03-29 18:47:09 <sipa> just move the binary to an executable location
1192 2014-03-29 18:47:20 <sipa> and then delete your local repo entirely if you need space
1193 2014-03-29 18:47:29 Gyps has joined
1194 2014-03-29 18:48:05 <elichai2> ammmm but which files i need to keep?
1195 2014-03-29 18:48:13 <sipa> bitcoin-qt
1196 2014-03-29 18:48:34 <elichai2> only this file?!
1197 2014-03-29 18:48:41 <sipa> yes
1198 2014-03-29 18:48:41 <elichai2> nothing else?
1199 2014-03-29 18:48:44 <sipa> no
1200 2014-03-29 18:48:49 <elichai2> not the bitcoind etc. ?
1201 2014-03-29 18:48:58 <sipa> if you don't plan to use them, no
1202 2014-03-29 18:49:04 <elichai2> ok...
1203 2014-03-29 18:49:11 <elichai2> and where it will save the wallet.dat?
1204 2014-03-29 18:49:17 <sipa> in the data dir
1205 2014-03-29 18:49:17 <elichai2> in ~/.bitcoin?
1206 2014-03-29 18:49:21 <sipa> yes
1207 2014-03-29 18:49:58 <elichai2> ok
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1211 2014-03-29 18:51:12 <elichai2> sipa: you think i will need the bitcoind/bitcoin-cli?
1212 2014-03-29 18:51:44 <sipa> if you plan to run the daemon, you need bitcoind
1213 2014-03-29 18:51:55 <elichai2> what the daemon means?
1214 2014-03-29 18:52:06 <sipa> if you plan to use the command line rpc client, you need bitcoin-cli
1215 2014-03-29 18:52:17 <sipa> if you don't know that, you likely don't need it :)
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1218 2014-03-29 18:52:31 <sipa> it's a background service without gui
1219 2014-03-29 18:54:14 <elichai2> sipa: i can minimize bitcoin-qt to the tray, right?
1220 2014-03-29 18:54:15 <elichai2> (linux)
1221 2014-03-29 18:55:02 execute_ is now known as execute
1222 2014-03-29 18:55:37 <bedeho> is it correct that using getdata to ask for a tx will fail is the tx is in a block?
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1227 2014-03-29 18:58:53 <sipa> bedeho: usually
1228 2014-03-29 18:59:11 <sipa> bedeho: you can ask for a tx if it was recently relayed or in the mempool (since bip35)
1229 2014-03-29 18:59:32 <sipa> it being in a block does not matter directly
1230 2014-03-29 19:00:20 <sipa> elichai2: i assume so
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1249 2014-03-29 19:18:53 <bedeho> sipa: (read bip35), if a tx is not in mempool, e.g. because its in some old block, then if I ask for it with getdata I will not get it right?
1250 2014-03-29 19:19:15 <bedeho> basically, getdata only gives you transactions presently in mempool
1251 2014-03-29 19:19:39 <bedeho> everything else will cause a notfound message?
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1254 2014-03-29 19:21:24 <sipa> bedeho: indeed
1255 2014-03-29 19:21:31 <bedeho> cool thanks!
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1257 2014-03-29 19:21:33 <sipa> either in the mempool, or recently relayed
1258 2014-03-29 19:21:47 <bedeho> recently relayed is some other buffer?
1259 2014-03-29 19:22:16 disident has joined
1260 2014-03-29 19:23:00 <sipa> there is a mqp of recently relayed messages yes
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1263 2014-03-29 19:24:34 <bedeho> so it contains txs which this node recently sent with inv or tx messages? does that also include messages that were just part of some block someone wanted?
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1270 2014-03-29 19:31:55 <sipa> bedeho: recently inv'ed transactions
1271 2014-03-29 19:32:04 <sipa> bedeho: not blocks or the transactions in it
1272 2014-03-29 19:32:15 <sipa> you can always ask for (entire) blocks
1273 2014-03-29 19:34:04 <bedeho> ok thank you
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1277 2014-03-29 19:43:58 <olalonde1> does bitcoin 0.9 use larger block file sizes?
1278 2014-03-29 19:44:52 <olalonde1> blk00000.dat - blk00001.dat are 2.0G while other block files are 128M
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1283 2014-03-29 19:47:33 <gmaxwell> olalonde1: thats a host that was updated from pre 0.8.. the migration does that.
1284 2014-03-29 19:47:47 <gmaxwell> (because pre 0.8 it used 2gb files)
1285 2014-03-29 19:47:55 rnicoll has joined
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1287 2014-03-29 19:48:50 <olalonde1> ah yes it is
1288 2014-03-29 19:49:19 <olalonde1> is there any way I can "convert" my files to the newer format?
1289 2014-03-29 19:49:26 <olalonde1> without redownloading the blockchain
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1295 2014-03-29 19:51:52 <Alina-malina> how to get multisig address balance
1296 2014-03-29 19:52:19 <sipa> olalonde1: the format is the same, and the files are reused
1297 2014-03-29 19:52:21 <olalonde1> maybe I could concat all my blockfiles into a bootstrap.dat file and try to import it?
1298 2014-03-29 19:52:37 <sipa> olalonde1: it happens automatically when you first start the new version
1299 2014-03-29 19:52:41 olalonde1 is now known as olalonde
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1301 2014-03-29 19:53:33 <olalonde> sipa: I'm now running bitcoin 0.9 but those files remain 2.0 GB
1302 2014-03-29 19:53:44 <dexX7> Alina-malina: you can - at least - confirm, if an multisig output was spent/not spent with the rpc call "gettxout txid vout"
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1304 2014-03-29 19:53:52 <sipa> yes, as i said, it reuses the old files
1305 2014-03-29 19:54:13 <sipa> olalonde: the format is the same, only newly created files are smaller
1306 2014-03-29 19:54:25 <Alina-malina> dexX7, i just sent funds on multisig address, how to make sure what amount is in there ?
1307 2014-03-29 19:54:46 <olalonde> sipa: ah ok, so there's no way to make those files smaller right?
1308 2014-03-29 19:55:00 <sipa> olalonde: there is, but there is no need
1309 2014-03-29 19:55:12 <sipa> olalonde: it would just end up being more but smaller files
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1312 2014-03-29 19:55:23 <sipa> olalonde: with altogether the same size
1313 2014-03-29 19:55:33 <dexX7> Alina-malina: what client do you use?
1314 2014-03-29 19:55:36 <olalonde> sipa: yes bitcoin works fine.. but I'm trying to run an external tool that parses blockchain data and it won't work with the pre 0.8 files because they are too big
1315 2014-03-29 19:55:40 <Alina-malina> dexX7, bitcoind
1316 2014-03-29 19:56:11 <sipa> olalonde: can the block files together, rename it to bootstrap.dat, put it in a clean datadir
1317 2014-03-29 19:56:24 <olalonde> sipa: ok thanks
1318 2014-03-29 19:56:31 <sipa> Alina-malina: bitvoind will not consider a multisig address "its own" unless it has all the keys involved
1319 2014-03-29 19:56:31 <Luke-Jr> olalonde: uh, 2 GB shouldn't be too big for anything
1320 2014-03-29 19:56:41 <sipa> olalonde: *cat
1321 2014-03-29 19:56:42 <olalonde> Luke-Jr: too big for V8 :)
1322 2014-03-29 19:56:48 <Luke-Jr> â¦
1323 2014-03-29 19:56:48 <sipa> v8?
1324 2014-03-29 19:56:55 <Luke-Jr> sipa: ECMAScript engine
1325 2014-03-29 19:56:58 <olalonde> javascript engine
1326 2014-03-29 19:56:59 <sipa> the javascript engine?
1327 2014-03-29 19:57:19 <sipa> well, knock yourself out :)
1328 2014-03-29 19:57:19 <Alina-malina> sipa, hmmm so there is no way for sides to check how much funds are available on that multisig wallet?
1329 2014-03-29 19:57:30 <olalonde> haha
1330 2014-03-29 19:57:40 <sipa> Alina-malina: it needs watch-only wallets to explicitly watch auch addresses
1331 2014-03-29 19:58:03 nsh_ has joined
1332 2014-03-29 19:58:08 <dexX7> Alina-malina: well, you can only confirm that a specific output is unspent via "gettxout txid vout"
1333 2014-03-29 19:58:33 <Alina-malina> dexX7, give me example please, i dont get that function completely what you just wrote
1334 2014-03-29 19:58:53 <sipa> Alina-malina: it means you need something else than bitvoind to watch for transactions
1335 2014-03-29 19:59:12 <Alina-malina> i have the tx id, can i check with that?
1336 2014-03-29 19:59:13 <dexX7> ./bitcoind gettxout 399feb0f00083117cc075d8702d9400006cb9e3dd678d6902071ba098aaca0d6 2
1337 2014-03-29 19:59:36 <Alina-malina> where 399feb0f00083117cc075d8702d9400006cb9e3dd678d6902071ba098aaca0d6 is?
1338 2014-03-29 20:00:09 <Alina-malina> hmmmm let me try
1339 2014-03-29 20:00:11 <Alina-malina> just a moment
1340 2014-03-29 20:01:02 <Alina-malina> dexX7, hmmm returns blank
1341 2014-03-29 20:01:37 lolstate has quit (Quit: lolstate)
1342 2014-03-29 20:01:42 <bedeho> is the point of the bloom filter that it can be given a high false positive rate so as to conceal to peers which transactions one is actually are interested in?
1343 2014-03-29 20:01:43 non2_ has joined
1344 2014-03-29 20:02:00 <dexX7> Alina-malina: this either means the output you were looking for doesn't exist or was already spent
1345 2014-03-29 20:02:20 <Alina-malina> dexX7, hmmm maybe it still in process?
1346 2014-03-29 20:02:37 non2 has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
1347 2014-03-29 20:03:33 <dexX7> do you mind to post the address/txid?
1348 2014-03-29 20:04:13 <Alina-malina> i do getrawtransaction and it returns an output
1349 2014-03-29 20:04:42 <Alina-malina> txid = d96cdcc5d72416f68826ccf81dbff780fda4a69cb465e7b8d4b1d68862451e41
1350 2014-03-29 20:04:56 <Alina-malina> address: 2N7Rp7DGx85uJqDBzr37FWJghZULfzSjmja
1351 2014-03-29 20:05:32 <Alina-malina> so when i do getbalance and 2N7.... it returns 0.000000
1352 2014-03-29 20:05:56 <dexX7> d96cdcc5d72416f68826ccf81dbff780fda4a69cb465e7b8d4b1d68862451e41 doesn't exist for me
1353 2014-03-29 20:07:03 GMP has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1354 2014-03-29 20:07:53 <Alina-malina> just a moment i think i figure out hmmmm
1355 2014-03-29 20:11:34 beachandbytes has joined
1356 2014-03-29 20:11:46 jtcwang has joined
1357 2014-03-29 20:12:06 <Alina-malina> dexX7, oh i forgot to mention that i use testnet:)
1358 2014-03-29 20:12:14 <dexX7> ah well
1359 2014-03-29 20:12:56 <Alina-malina> dexX7, so if there is no tx id it is impossible to check the balance right?
1360 2014-03-29 20:13:34 <Alina-malina> dexX7, also i am confused why there are 2 values? like 0.12990000 and the amount that i sent: 0.00500000
1361 2014-03-29 20:13:39 <Alina-malina> what there are 2 values?
1362 2014-03-29 20:13:40 <Alina-malina> grrrr
1363 2014-03-29 20:14:07 <dexX7> i assume one of the outputs is your change
1364 2014-03-29 20:14:35 <dexX7> ./bitcoind gettxout d96cdcc5d72416f68826ccf81dbff780fda4a69cb465e7b8d4b1d68862451e41 1 should return something. can you confirm?
1365 2014-03-29 20:14:38 <Alina-malina> hm i sent 0.005 so 2 values are confusing me
1366 2014-03-29 20:15:15 <Alina-malina> thats right!
1367 2014-03-29 20:15:20 <Alina-malina> hmmm
1368 2014-03-29 20:15:23 benkay has joined
1369 2014-03-29 20:15:35 <dexX7> if you use this then you can at least know this balance is still available
1370 2014-03-29 20:15:48 <Alina-malina> hmmm
1371 2014-03-29 20:15:54 <dexX7> but you are unable to check, if the address was funded by others
1372 2014-03-29 20:15:55 denisx has joined
1373 2014-03-29 20:16:14 <Alina-malina> so of there is 2 of 3 those 3 parties can check this right?
1374 2014-03-29 20:16:51 rastapopuloto has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
1375 2014-03-29 20:16:55 <Alina-malina> *if
1376 2014-03-29 20:17:22 <dexX7> this can be done by anyone
1377 2014-03-29 20:17:28 <Alina-malina> hmmm
1378 2014-03-29 20:17:34 <Alina-malina> if they know the tx id right?
1379 2014-03-29 20:17:44 <dexX7> and the output number (in this case: 1)
1380 2014-03-29 20:17:49 <Alina-malina> yes
1381 2014-03-29 20:18:01 <Alina-malina> but if the tx id is unknown noone can do shit right?
1382 2014-03-29 20:18:08 drayah has joined
1383 2014-03-29 20:18:20 <dexX7> yup
1384 2014-03-29 20:19:02 <Alina-malina> so when one transfer btc to that multisig address, he should provide with some info other participants? or does other particimants can check their multisigned address for balance?
1385 2014-03-29 20:19:50 drayah has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1386 2014-03-29 20:20:13 <dexX7> it's either needed to share the information or you rely on a third party which keeps track of _all transactions, e.g. a block explorer: https://www.biteasy.com/testnet/addresses/2N7Rp7DGx85uJqDBzr37FWJghZULfzSjmja
1387 2014-03-29 20:21:21 <Alina-malina> dexX7, hmmm how that website knows that stuff?
1388 2014-03-29 20:21:22 <Alina-malina> hmmm
1389 2014-03-29 20:21:38 benkay has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1390 2014-03-29 20:21:40 <Alina-malina> i mean what did you input there to get that info?
1391 2014-03-29 20:22:08 <dexX7> i submitted your txid and followed the path to the 2N7.. address, because you mentioned it
1392 2014-03-29 20:22:13 <Alina-malina> oh
1393 2014-03-29 20:22:15 <Alina-malina> nice
1394 2014-03-29 20:22:17 <Alina-malina> thats right
1395 2014-03-29 20:22:34 pierreatwork has joined
1396 2014-03-29 20:22:35 pierreat1ork has joined
1397 2014-03-29 20:22:44 <dexX7> these websites know this, because they maintain a database with all balances and transactions
1398 2014-03-29 20:23:15 <Alina-malina> hmmm but how the other participants can check if the funds transfered to that address if he doesn not provide this txid or doesnt know how to do that?
1399 2014-03-29 20:23:30 <Alina-malina> shit
1400 2014-03-29 20:23:36 <dexX7> bitcoind doesn't do this, but only keeps track of your own balance, not including multisig stuff
1401 2014-03-29 20:23:52 <olalonde> I assume clients of the future will be smart about that Alina-malina
1402 2014-03-29 20:23:58 <Alina-malina> omg
1403 2014-03-29 20:24:02 <Alina-malina> shit
1404 2014-03-29 20:24:08 <Alina-malina> omg
1405 2014-03-29 20:24:14 <Alina-malina> hmmmm
1406 2014-03-29 20:24:39 <Alina-malina> the client of future should now how to extrac the txid and provide to others?
1407 2014-03-29 20:24:50 <Alina-malina> can we just check the balance on blockchain?
1408 2014-03-29 20:25:01 <Alina-malina> with the address that is multisigned?
1409 2014-03-29 20:25:54 <olalonde> I don't understand your question
1410 2014-03-29 20:26:07 <olalonde> perhaps you should google for p2sh transactions
1411 2014-03-29 20:26:09 <Alina-malina> for example with the multisig address with coins can we check it?
1412 2014-03-29 20:26:42 <Alina-malina> 1 partie transfered funds on multisig address, is it possible to checksome otherway?
1413 2014-03-29 20:26:48 <Alina-malina> if the funds are available there?
1414 2014-03-29 20:26:51 <Alina-malina> beside txid
1415 2014-03-29 20:27:08 <dexX7> without a website like biteasy.com: not at the moment.
1416 2014-03-29 20:28:21 <dexX7> otherwise just use this website (or blockchain.info, blockr.io for realnet). all participants know the multisig address anyway, so everyone can type in the address and see the balance there
1417 2014-03-29 20:29:26 <Alina-malina> dexX7, blockchaininfo gives nothing for this: 2N7Rp7DGx85uJqDBzr37FWJghZULfzSjmja
1418 2014-03-29 20:29:28 <Alina-malina> hmmm
1419 2014-03-29 20:29:31 <Alina-malina> this is so strange
1420 2014-03-29 20:29:32 Ghaleon_ has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
1421 2014-03-29 20:29:39 <dexX7> it doesn't support testnet
1422 2014-03-29 20:29:42 <Alina-malina> omg
1423 2014-03-29 20:29:50 <Alina-malina> so with real coins it will show me"?
1424 2014-03-29 20:29:54 <dexX7> yes
1425 2014-03-29 20:30:00 <Alina-malina> omg thank you so much
1426 2014-03-29 20:30:01 <olalonde> Alina-malina: there is no multisig address⦠only multisig transactions
1427 2014-03-29 20:30:09 <olalonde> as far as I understand
1428 2014-03-29 20:30:09 <Alina-malina> 2N7Rp7DGx85uJqDBzr37FWJghZULfzSjmja what is this?
1429 2014-03-29 20:30:16 <Alina-malina> is this address? or this is transaction?
1430 2014-03-29 20:31:00 shesek has joined
1431 2014-03-29 20:31:14 <dexX7> it's actually both, but don't get confused
1432 2014-03-29 20:32:16 <Alina-malina> dexX7, so is it ok to check with just blockchain.info balance? or i should make additional txid check to make sure this btc were send to that mutisig address or not?
1433 2014-03-29 20:32:27 jtcwang has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
1434 2014-03-29 20:33:20 benten has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzzâ¦)
1435 2014-03-29 20:33:41 <dexX7> you didn't tell what you are trying to do in the first place or "why did you ask how to check a multisig balance?"
1436 2014-03-29 20:33:50 <Alina-malina> hmmm
1437 2014-03-29 20:33:51 <Alina-malina> i did
1438 2014-03-29 20:34:33 <dexX7> you asked how to check, but didn't mentioned why you are asking
1439 2014-03-29 20:34:36 <Alina-malina> 3 parties sign multisig address and one partie sent btc on that one, so i want to check if he sent that btc there or not
1440 2014-03-29 20:34:40 <Alina-malina> heh sorry
1441 2014-03-29 20:34:47 <Luke-Jr> Alina-malina: usually it's a bad idea to trust blockchain.info on anything
1442 2014-03-29 20:35:13 <shesek> Alina-malina, I'm using bitcoind with sipa's address index patch
1443 2014-03-29 20:35:14 <dexX7> you will see, if you try to spend the coins sent to the address
1444 2014-03-29 20:35:21 <shesek> I think its pull request #2802 or something like that
1445 2014-03-29 20:35:26 basva has joined
1446 2014-03-29 20:35:29 <shesek> it wasn't merged, but it works well for me
1447 2014-03-29 20:35:32 cajg has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
1448 2014-03-29 20:35:38 <shesek> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/2802
1449 2014-03-29 20:35:47 <Alina-malina> so how to make sure that the 3rd partie sent this btc on that balance
1450 2014-03-29 20:36:42 <Alina-malina> hmmm what is that? i am confusing more
1451 2014-03-29 20:36:47 <dexX7> either lookup their transaction or try to spend the coins
1452 2014-03-29 20:36:59 nsh_ has quit (Changing host)
1453 2014-03-29 20:36:59 nsh_ has joined
1454 2014-03-29 20:37:02 nsh_ is now known as nsh
1455 2014-03-29 20:37:06 <Alina-malina> spend the coins? i cant because it is 3 partie signed
1456 2014-03-29 20:37:09 <Alina-malina> hmm
1457 2014-03-29 20:37:10 <shesek> Alina-malina, bitcoind doesn't normally allow to look up balances/unspent outputs of arbitrary addresses
1458 2014-03-29 20:37:14 <dexX7> shesek: this is actually really, really nice. thanks
1459 2014-03-29 20:37:41 <shesek> that patch I linked to adds an index that allows doing that using a new rpc call, "searchrawtransactions"
1460 2014-03-29 20:37:44 <Alina-malina> shesek, so what is the solution how to make sure if the sender sent those btc on that sugner place?
1461 2014-03-29 20:38:02 <Alina-malina> *signed
1462 2014-03-29 20:38:19 <olalonde> is Alina-malina referring to p2sh m-of-n transactions?
1463 2014-03-29 20:38:22 <olalonde> getting confused
1464 2014-03-29 20:38:32 <Alina-malina> olalonde, yes thats right
1465 2014-03-29 20:38:42 <shesek> Alina-malina, compile bitcoind from that branch, then use "searchrawtransactions" to get a list of transactions for your p2sh address
1466 2014-03-29 20:38:56 <Alina-malina> oh shit
1467 2014-03-29 20:39:05 <Alina-malina> hmmm
1468 2014-03-29 20:39:13 <Alina-malina> i am broken and confused one more time
1469 2014-03-29 20:39:26 <Alina-malina> shesek, https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/2802 this one?
1470 2014-03-29 20:39:30 <shesek> right
1471 2014-03-29 20:39:37 <Alina-malina> does it support testnet?
1472 2014-03-29 20:39:39 <dexX7> https://github.com/sipa/bitcoin/tree/addrindex
1473 2014-03-29 20:39:43 <shesek> or you could just use bc.i's api, if you don't mind trusting them
1474 2014-03-29 20:40:04 <shesek> yes, it does support testnet. just start bitcoind with -testnet
1475 2014-03-29 20:40:23 <Alina-malina> so with searchrawtransaction what it gives?
1476 2014-03-29 20:40:25 <Alina-malina> hmmm
1477 2014-03-29 20:40:35 <Alina-malina> i stil need the transaction id? or something?
1478 2014-03-29 20:40:44 <Alina-malina> or i can just search with multisig address?
1479 2014-03-29 20:40:46 <Alina-malina> omg
1480 2014-03-29 20:41:06 <shesek> Alina-malina, you search with the address, and get a list of transactions to/from that address
1481 2014-03-29 20:41:14 <Alina-malina> hmm nice
1482 2014-03-29 20:41:30 <Alina-malina> now i need to try this compile stuff omg, i never did this before
1483 2014-03-29 20:41:31 <Alina-malina> shit
1484 2014-03-29 20:41:45 SwampTony has joined
1485 2014-03-29 20:41:55 axilla has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
1486 2014-03-29 20:42:29 <olalonde> Alina-malina: did you send bitcoins using p2sh? if so, send the transaction hash
1487 2014-03-29 20:42:37 <Alina-malina> p2sh?
1488 2014-03-29 20:42:54 SwampTony has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1489 2014-03-29 20:43:00 <Alina-malina> olalonde, i did this: https://gist.github.com/gavinandresen/3966071
1490 2014-03-29 20:43:13 <Alina-malina> line 10
1491 2014-03-29 20:43:20 SwampTony has joined
1492 2014-03-29 20:43:35 <Alina-malina> and just sent btc to that address
1493 2014-03-29 20:43:46 <Alina-malina> did i something wrong?
1494 2014-03-29 20:44:08 <olalonde> brb
1495 2014-03-29 20:44:21 <Alina-malina> and please explain me what is p2sh???
1496 2014-03-29 20:45:09 Starduster has quit (Quit: gotta go)
1497 2014-03-29 20:45:21 dkog has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1498 2014-03-29 20:45:34 pierreat1ork has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
1499 2014-03-29 20:45:34 pierreatwork has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
1500 2014-03-29 20:47:03 MaxSan has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1501 2014-03-29 20:47:21 paveljanik has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
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1504 2014-03-29 20:48:56 <maaku> Alina-malina: https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/blob/master/bip-0016.mediawiki
1505 2014-03-29 20:49:32 <Alina-malina> maaku, omg what is this?
1506 2014-03-29 20:50:02 Coincidental has joined
1507 2014-03-29 20:50:23 <shesek> Alina-malina, not to be rude or let you down, but I think you have some reading to do before trying to build what you're working on
1508 2014-03-29 20:50:37 <maaku> Alina-malina: minimal literacy if you want to be on here. sorry, but this is not bitcoin tech support
1509 2014-03-29 20:51:10 MaxSan has joined
1510 2014-03-29 20:51:15 <maaku> you asked what p2sh is. BIP 16 is the standard which defines what p2sh is
1511 2014-03-29 20:51:25 olalonde has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
1512 2014-03-29 20:51:38 <Alina-malina> i understand what you mean, i just want to make sure how to make sure that the bitcoins were sent to that multisig address, on bitcoin noone could asnwer my questiosn, so smart people are here
1513 2014-03-29 20:52:03 oleganza has quit (Quit: oleganza)
1514 2014-03-29 20:52:05 <Alina-malina> i just dont know where else to go to get my 1 question answerd, this is the key moment
1515 2014-03-29 20:52:09 <Alina-malina> so please bare with me in this situation
1516 2014-03-29 20:52:12 <Alina-malina> and help me t
1517 2014-03-29 20:52:22 <shesek> do you need to ensure that manually just once, or need to implement that in some system that'll do that automatically?
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1519 2014-03-29 20:52:37 <Alina-malina> shesek, yes automatically
1520 2014-03-29 20:52:57 <shesek> Alina-malina, right. so, as I said, compile bitcoind from the addrindex branch
1521 2014-03-29 20:53:05 <shesek> and use the "searchrawtransactions" rpc call
1522 2014-03-29 20:53:10 <Alina-malina> yes
1523 2014-03-29 20:53:17 <Alina-malina> i am working on it right now
1524 2014-03-29 20:53:28 <Alina-malina> i hope that bitcoind client is normal not malware stuff inside
1525 2014-03-29 20:53:44 <Alina-malina> i dont know whose library it is or who wrote that, but i will try this to make sure
1526 2014-03-29 20:54:12 <shesek> Alina-malina, sipa is a pretty well known bitcoin developer
1527 2014-03-29 20:54:20 <Alina-malina> is that sipas?
1528 2014-03-29 20:54:22 <sipa> yes
1529 2014-03-29 20:54:33 <Alina-malina> okie
1530 2014-03-29 20:54:36 <sipa> and i consider it a bad idea
1531 2014-03-29 20:54:41 <Alina-malina> hmmm?
1532 2014-03-29 20:54:54 <sipa> watch only wallets are a much more scalable solutioin
1533 2014-03-29 20:55:02 <sipa> (which i also have a branch for)
1534 2014-03-29 20:55:17 <shesek> sipa, well, it depends on the exact use case
1535 2014-03-29 20:55:29 oleganza has joined
1536 2014-03-29 20:55:34 XwebJohn has joined
1537 2014-03-29 20:55:45 <shesek> if you're providing a service for users and need to lookup arbitrary addresses that aren't known ahead of time, using an address index of everything does make sense
1538 2014-03-29 20:56:00 <Alina-malina> sipa, so your bitcoind library on github you hink it is a bad idea?
1539 2014-03-29 20:56:04 <Alina-malina> explain please
1540 2014-03-29 20:56:06 <Alina-malina> i dont understand
1541 2014-03-29 20:56:42 <sipa> shesek: i consider any use case that requirees a fully imdexed blockchain to be an unscalable solkution
1542 2014-03-29 20:56:53 <sipa> sorry for typing, i'm on a tablet
1543 2014-03-29 20:57:07 <maaku> If I create a transaction spending dust with NONE|ANYONECANPAY and no outputs (all goes to fee), that should be relayable, right?
1544 2014-03-29 20:57:25 <sipa> Alina-malina: it's not a library, it's a patched old version of bitcoind
1545 2014-03-29 20:57:32 <shesek> sipa, well, the most obvious example is something like bc.i... where you do really need that
1546 2014-03-29 20:57:40 airq_ has joined
1547 2014-03-29 20:57:46 blackwhite has joined
1548 2014-03-29 20:57:47 <Alina-malina> sipa, oh can i use that library just for making checking only?
1549 2014-03-29 20:57:52 <sipa> shesek: i consider bc.i to be an unscalable solution
1550 2014-03-29 20:57:56 <gmaxwell> maaku: they are, if you meet the fee rules.
1551 2014-03-29 20:58:05 <sipa> but yes, for debug purposes it is very useful
1552 2014-03-29 20:58:22 <shesek> but, I can think of plenty of other examples too - say, an instawallet-like web wallet
1553 2014-03-29 20:58:30 <maaku> gmaxwell: it'd be small so it should be free
1554 2014-03-29 20:58:31 <jcorgan> also, the old 2802 pull request has been updated to work with 0.9 tree, it is 3562 now
1555 2014-03-29 20:58:40 <sipa> shesek: watchonly works perfectly fine for that
1556 2014-03-29 20:58:48 dkog has joined
1557 2014-03-29 20:59:08 olalonde has joined
1558 2014-03-29 20:59:09 <maaku> i don't mean make it into the block, I just mean relayable. presumably miners would merge them together
1559 2014-03-29 20:59:10 <gmaxwell> maaku: it's hard to have much priority if the values are low.
1560 2014-03-29 20:59:36 <Alina-malina> gmaxwell, could you please provide me with other solution to check if the funds been transfered to multisig address? is it possible to check just with known multisig address alternatively that suggest sipas lib?
1561 2014-03-29 20:59:47 <maaku> I'm just trying to address justusranvier's point about dust-b-gone requiring a server. This should be doable via the p2p network.
1562 2014-03-29 20:59:54 <sipa> Alina-malina: my watchonly branch will work fime
1563 2014-03-29 21:00:03 <sipa> or a more up to date version of it
1564 2014-03-29 21:00:18 airq has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1565 2014-03-29 21:00:25 <Alina-malina> watchonly?
1566 2014-03-29 21:00:27 <Alina-malina> hmmm
1567 2014-03-29 21:00:39 <shesek> sipa, there are some privacy concerns with keeping a list of all the users addresses
1568 2014-03-29 21:00:46 olalonde has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
1569 2014-03-29 21:01:00 vegard has quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
1570 2014-03-29 21:01:00 <sipa> shesek: still, any use case that requires a fully indexed blockchaim is a bad idea imho, and having infrastructure that relies on it is even worse
1571 2014-03-29 21:01:18 <maaku> sipa: fully indexed block chain or validation set?
1572 2014-03-29 21:01:21 olalonde has joined
1573 2014-03-29 21:01:33 <maaku> for many of these applications indexed validation set is fine
1574 2014-03-29 21:01:35 <shesek> well, I definitely do agree that it should be avoided if possible
1575 2014-03-29 21:01:42 <sipa> shesek: how does an instawallet like wallet on top of an address index prevent that?
1576 2014-03-29 21:02:00 <sipa> maaku: you mean an indexed utxo set? that is far less of a problem
1577 2014-03-29 21:02:03 <shesek> and using bitcoind for that is probably not the right way to go about that, it wasn't really meant for that
1578 2014-03-29 21:02:26 Tiraspol has joined
1579 2014-03-29 21:02:34 <shesek> sipa, well, if the wallet is managed client-side, all you really need the server for is to load unspent outputs and relaying transactions
1580 2014-03-29 21:02:50 <Alina-malina> sipa, watchonly you mean blockchain watchonly?
1581 2014-03-29 21:02:52 <jcorgan> er, #3652
1582 2014-03-29 21:03:04 adam3us has joined
1583 2014-03-29 21:03:06 <shesek> the rest can be done client-side, so the server doesn't have to keep any records for its users
1584 2014-03-29 21:03:32 <sipa> Alina-malina: it's a patch that adds a 'importaddress' rpc, so it considers that address to be part of the wallet
1585 2014-03-29 21:03:43 <sipa> Alina-malina: that way, you can observe tramsactions to it
1586 2014-03-29 21:03:49 <wumpus> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/3383 is the newest version of the watchonly pull right now
1587 2014-03-29 21:04:08 <sipa> Alina-malina: without the ability to spend from it
1588 2014-03-29 21:04:12 <sipa> hence watchonly
1589 2014-03-29 21:04:43 <Alina-malina> sipa, so watcholy->providing the address of multisig and get the current balance of it right?
1590 2014-03-29 21:04:54 <wumpus> yes
1591 2014-03-29 21:04:59 <sipa> more or less
1592 2014-03-29 21:05:03 <Alina-malina> O_O
1593 2014-03-29 21:05:05 <Alina-malina> more or less?
1594 2014-03-29 21:05:09 <sipa> not really balance of an address
1595 2014-03-29 21:05:15 <sipa> it's balance of the wallet
1596 2014-03-29 21:05:22 <Alina-malina> yes
1597 2014-03-29 21:05:27 <sipa> but you determien what addresses the wallet manages
1598 2014-03-29 21:05:33 <Alina-malina> hmm that patch is it hard to do?
1599 2014-03-29 21:06:20 <sipa> just compiling it
1600 2014-03-29 21:06:22 <wumpus> right. without HD wallets, watch-only is always about addresses not wallets
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1608 2014-03-29 21:22:11 <justusranvier> maaku: I've suggested in the past that the fee rules should give credit for transactions which shrink the utxo set.
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1610 2014-03-29 21:25:04 <gmaxwell> It's a bit irritating to see remarks like that from people who don't even pay enough attention to know they already do.
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1620 2014-03-29 21:27:33 <justusranvier> So a transaction with 10, 8-of-12 multisig inputs, that has a zero-value OP_RETURN output and gives 500 satoshis to the miner who includes it would be relayed by unmodified clients?
1621 2014-03-29 21:27:36 jn has joined
1622 2014-03-29 21:28:06 <gmaxwell> of course that wasn't the question you asked, instead you asked about making a standard form for all fee transactionsâ and there already is one... and relaying them, and they already are so long as they meet the relay rules, and you can gain more advantage wrt the relay rules by merging them, or handing them off to someone to merge in another transaction.
1623 2014-03-29 21:28:18 <gmaxwell> justusranvier: dunno, go work out the size and credits.
1624 2014-03-29 21:28:36 <gmaxwell> 8 of 12 already makes you non-relayable period as a bare multisig.
1625 2014-03-29 21:28:40 <gmaxwell> IIRC.
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1627 2014-03-29 21:29:06 <gmaxwell> it seems like so many angles dancing on the heads of pins to me when the actual users of that are non-existant.
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1632 2014-03-29 21:29:52 <justusranvier> Maybe the actual users are non-existant because the potential users can't get a straight answer about network relaying policy?
1633 2014-03-29 21:29:59 <gmaxwell> oh give me a break
1634 2014-03-29 21:30:16 * nsh gives gmaxwell two breaks
1635 2014-03-29 21:30:41 <nsh> justusranvier, no-one here's paid for tech support. catch more flies with honey than vinegar :)
1636 2014-03-29 21:31:07 <gmaxwell> justusranvier: Is this the excuse for OT being vaporware today? that you can't get enough free consulting from random volunteers on the internet when you're too busy releasing nothing to go out and read a couple lines of code?
1637 2014-03-29 21:31:29 <justusranvier> 1. I'm not an OT developer
1638 2014-03-29 21:31:40 <justusranvier> 2. OT works fine today. It's just not connected to Bitcoin yet
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1642 2014-03-29 21:32:58 <justusranvier> 3. Suggesting on the mailing list that the network be more accepting about what it relays is hardly asking for free consluting.
1643 2014-03-29 21:33:39 <gmaxwell> It's been works fine but does nothing for several years now, and yet another wave of people show up asking for a bunch of time sinking about hypotetical stuff that is sure to be applicable any day now when it actually does something sets off some mild irritation.
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1646 2014-03-29 21:34:17 <gmaxwell> justusranvier: Posting such things without even bothering to check for yourself what it already does is effectively doing so.
1647 2014-03-29 21:34:19 <maaku> justusranvier: my understanding is that you can relay a dust-be-gone-like NONE|ANYONECANPAY transaction right now
1648 2014-03-29 21:34:27 <gmaxwell> maaku: absolutely.
1649 2014-03-29 21:34:34 <maaku> there's just no one on the other end listening to put it in a block
1650 2014-03-29 21:34:39 <gmaxwell> and people do anthey they get confirmed.
1651 2014-03-29 21:34:54 <maaku> well, assuming the priority is too low
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1653 2014-03-29 21:35:13 <maaku> it would be a nice feature to scan for and collect these into UTXO-cleanup transactions
1654 2014-03-29 21:35:21 <maaku> and give them boosted priority by default
1655 2014-03-29 21:35:35 <gmaxwell> we actually do effectively boost their priority already.
1656 2014-03-29 21:35:57 <justusranvier> It would be especially nice if transactions that were otherwise non-standard would still get relayed by the virture of the fact that they shrink the utxo set
1657 2014-03-29 21:36:01 <gmaxwell> (basically we credit up to ~200 bytes of signature space in the priority calculations to incentivize cleanup)
1658 2014-03-29 21:37:04 <gmaxwell> justusranvier: we already do that.
1659 2014-03-29 21:37:21 <justusranvier> Unless it's greater than 200 bytes?
1660 2014-03-29 21:37:35 <gmaxwell> (obviously we're not relaying things that violate the IsStandard rules for reasons other than sizeâ some of that is needed to preserve forward compatibility)
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1662 2014-03-29 21:38:12 <gmaxwell> justusranvier: the credit just reduces the signature size for the purpose of comparison, it's not a limit.
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1664 2014-03-29 21:38:54 <gmaxwell> and things will relay even when they won't get mined.
1665 2014-03-29 21:39:24 <topynate> forward compatibility? like if you wanted to change the meaning of an unused opcode?
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1668 2014-03-29 21:40:13 <gmaxwell> topynate: right. Thats why we have things like NOP opcodes and the tx version field.
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1670 2014-03-29 21:40:51 <gmaxwell> topynate: they allow us to do things like add a new script system to bitcoin and retain compatiblity with existing nodes.
1671 2014-03-29 21:40:57 * maaku wishes we had more NOP codes
1672 2014-03-29 21:41:50 <gmaxwell> Really I like doing P2SH style changes more than using the NOPs, just because the NOPs can't change the stack and remain compatible. :)
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1674 2014-03-29 21:42:06 <gmaxwell> (meaning you're mostly stuck with peak-and-verify opcodes)
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1679 2014-03-29 21:44:55 <maaku> they can in some constructs
1680 2014-03-29 21:45:06 <maaku> load the stack with a pass result, and execute
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1682 2014-03-29 21:46:23 <gmaxwell> yea, peek and verify is fully general but a little inelegant.
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1684 2014-03-29 21:46:50 <gmaxwell> e.g. just that you have to have the signature contain all the intermediate state
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1709 2014-03-29 22:13:42 <olalonde> I'm a bit confused by what happened to auroracoin
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1711 2014-03-29 22:14:02 <olalonde> how can a 51% attack lead to multiple blockchains? aren't clients supposed to accept the longest chain?
1712 2014-03-29 22:14:31 <kazcw> a scheduled hard fork occurred, and some troll made a self-moderated thread
1713 2014-03-29 22:14:39 <kazcw> but it's an alt coin, so it's not relevant here
1714 2014-03-29 22:15:29 <olalonde> ok
1715 2014-03-29 22:17:36 <olalonde> what do you mean by hard fork? wouldn't all miners keep mining on the longest chain?
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1718 2014-03-29 22:17:57 <sipa> olalonde: the rule is that the longest *valid* chain is accepted
1719 2014-03-29 22:18:17 <sipa> olalonde: if the definition of 'valid' changes (which is what a hard fork does), a fork is possible
1720 2014-03-29 22:18:34 <olalonde> sipa: right⦠but that's unrelated to 51% attacks isn't it?
1721 2014-03-29 22:19:08 <sipa> depends whether your change is backward compatible or not
1722 2014-03-29 22:19:46 <sipa> if the 'new' code accepts transactions or blocks that the old does not, you need a majority of hashpower to cause a split
1723 2014-03-29 22:19:55 <olalonde> what do you mean? a single miner can't change the rules...
1724 2014-03-29 22:20:04 <sipa> as otherwise the new miners will just see their blocks ignored by the majority
1725 2014-03-29 22:20:14 <olalonde> right
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1727 2014-03-29 22:20:34 <sipa> for backward compatible changes (soft forks), it's the opposite
1728 2014-03-29 22:20:42 <olalonde> ah I understand
1729 2014-03-29 22:20:45 <sipa> you need a majority of the hashpower uograded to make them safe
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1731 2014-03-29 22:21:11 <sipa> if they are neither backward or forward compatible, anythimg can cause a fork
1732 2014-03-29 22:22:16 <olalonde> so basically a 51% attack could lead to hard fork where the old clients use the attackers chain and newer clients keep using their own chain?
1733 2014-03-29 22:22:49 <sipa> heh
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1735 2014-03-29 22:23:22 <sipa> a hard fork requires people running code that is incompatible with the rest of the network
1736 2014-03-29 22:24:18 <olalonde> right. I understand how hard forks can happen when a % of the network start using incompatible code
1737 2014-03-29 22:24:39 <sipa> no no
1738 2014-03-29 22:24:49 <sipa> the % of nodes does not matter
1739 2014-03-29 22:25:17 <olalonde> so I can just change the rules of my bitcoin, start mining my own coin and people can meaningfuly call this a fork and panic?
1740 2014-03-29 22:25:41 <starstuffer> how does createrawtransaction create the scriptPubKey?
1741 2014-03-29 22:25:43 <olalonde> I mean technically it is a hard fork, but not a meaninful one
1742 2014-03-29 22:25:52 <starstuffer> this: 1btcaddressxyz becomes "asm" : "OP_DUP OP_HASH160 pubkeyhash OP_EQUALVERIFY OP_CHECKSIG" which becomes "hex" : "76a9 hexencodedpubkeyhash 88ac"
1743 2014-03-29 22:25:53 <sipa> olalonde: nobody would even notice
1744 2014-03-29 22:26:08 <sipa> starstuffer: addresses are shorthamds for particular scripts
1745 2014-03-29 22:26:14 <olalonde> sipa: yes that's my point.. .even if I had 51% of hashing power.
1746 2014-03-29 22:26:21 <sipa> starstuffer: it is just how that type of address is defined
1747 2014-03-29 22:26:36 <sipa> olalonde: indeed
1748 2014-03-29 22:26:54 <sipa> olalonde: as a miner, you must comply to the rules of the network you want to satisfy
1749 2014-03-29 22:27:01 <sipa> otherwise, it is meaningless
1750 2014-03-29 22:27:32 <olalonde> sipa: so my question is why what does kazcw mean by "a scheduled hard fork occurred"
1751 2014-03-29 22:28:10 <sipa> a scheduled hard fork is when the community agrees that the rules of the network need to be changed in a backward incompatible way
1752 2014-03-29 22:28:18 <starstuffer> sipa: how did 1btcaddressxyz get encoded to look like the value you see in the rawtx?
1753 2014-03-29 22:28:22 <olalonde> sipa: ah ok
1754 2014-03-29 22:28:31 <starstuffer> and then how did that value get encoded into hex?
1755 2014-03-29 22:28:50 <sipa> starstuffer: the address is a base58check encoding of a header byte + the pubkey hash
1756 2014-03-29 22:28:57 <starstuffer> how can i produce "hex" : "76a9 hexencodedpubkeyhash 88ac" directly from a public address
1757 2014-03-29 22:29:05 <sipa> starstuffer: by decoding it
1758 2014-03-29 22:29:19 <olalonde> so it seems there was no 51% attack involved with that auroracoin thing.. sorry to go off topic :P
1759 2014-03-29 22:29:38 <olalonde> just a failed fork
1760 2014-03-29 22:30:15 <starstuffer> sipa: decoding what?
1761 2014-03-29 22:30:21 <sipa> starstuffer: the address
1762 2014-03-29 22:30:38 <sipa> starstuffer: there is enough documentation online about the base58check encodimg
1763 2014-03-29 22:31:17 <sipa> starstuffer: for mainnet pay-to-pubkeyhash address, they will decode to 0x00 + pubkeyhasj
1764 2014-03-29 22:31:43 <sipa> starstuffer: which turn into script 0x76a9 + pubkeyhash + 0x88ac
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1766 2014-03-29 22:32:11 <sipa> but there are also p2sh addresses, with a different header and diffrrent corresponding script
1767 2014-03-29 22:32:18 <sipa> read bip13 and bip16 for those
1768 2014-03-29 22:35:34 go1111111 has joined
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1770 2014-03-29 22:37:25 <fruitwallet> hi guys!
1771 2014-03-29 22:38:09 Ghaleon has quit (Quit: Ghaleon)
1772 2014-03-29 22:38:23 <fruitwallet> just wanted to ping those who dream about cool ios btc wallet :)
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1780 2014-03-29 22:45:56 <rnicoll> am I doing something silly, or are there cyclic dependencies between libbitcoin_common.a and libbitcoin_server.a ?
1781 2014-03-29 22:46:29 <sipa> rnicoll: that's not the intention, but it's certainly possible
1782 2014-03-29 22:46:42 <sipa> common shouldn't depend on server
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1785 2014-03-29 22:48:11 <rnicoll> yeah... I'll keep at it
1786 2014-03-29 22:48:18 <rnicoll> thanks
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1789 2014-03-29 22:49:27 <sipa> rnicoll: can you be more specific?
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1793 2014-03-29 22:51:37 <rnicoll> sipa, not a lot.... "lorder *.a | tsort" complains, but that's far as far I've got
1794 2014-03-29 22:51:48 <rnicoll> and it's possible I'm just misusing the tools
1795 2014-03-29 22:51:52 blackwhite has joined
1796 2014-03-29 22:55:54 <rnicoll> honestly, if I was better at linker dependency handling, I'd probably not have to ask :)
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1825 2014-03-29 23:44:35 <Rawdawg-2> no
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