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17 2014-03-30 00:21:33 <mr_burdell> is anyone familiar with m2crypto in Python?
18 2014-03-30 00:21:45 <mr_burdell> I'm trying to implement BIP0070 verification in python
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20 2014-03-30 00:22:24 <mr_burdell> and I can't tell if the x509 check_ca just checks if it's a ca type cert or actually validates against the system trusted ca's
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27 2014-03-30 00:27:58 <lclc> anyone plans to attend the Bitcoin Expo Hackaton in Toronto and need one developer more?
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44 2014-03-30 00:45:23 <maaku> anyone want to pay for a developer to come to the toronto conference? :\
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47 2014-03-30 00:46:32 <lclc> maaku: haha, where do you live?
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49 2014-03-30 00:47:42 <olalonde1> I'd like to join too if someone is willing to finance my flight ticket :P
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54 2014-03-30 00:51:50 <lclc> olalonde: flight from Montreal to Toronto? or NY Toronto?
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56 2014-03-30 00:52:36 <olalonde> in China right now :p
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58 2014-03-30 00:53:31 <olalonde> a bit more pricey :)
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60 2014-03-30 00:54:15 <lclc> haha ok. Flight from NY to Toronto was only 110 Dollar :O
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62 2014-03-30 00:54:26 <lclc> but there are probably intersting BTC conference in Asia too
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64 2014-03-30 00:55:04 <olalonde> yep⦠maybe I'll attend one of those eventually
65 2014-03-30 00:56:08 <maaku> lclc: california
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68 2014-03-30 00:56:24 <lclc> maaku: well that should be cheap too?
69 2014-03-30 00:56:47 <lclc> I heard flights from North Amercia to North America are always cheap (also my experience so far)
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71 2014-03-30 00:57:56 <maaku> lclc: cheap is relative when you've got $10k CC debt and $0 in bank :\
72 2014-03-30 00:58:36 <lclc> mh yep, that sounds bad xD
73 2014-03-30 00:59:17 <lclc> but there are great BTC meetups in San Francisco and LA, so you don't have to go there anyway
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75 2014-03-30 01:00:44 <mr_burdell> we have weekly meetups in NYC too
76 2014-03-30 01:00:49 <mr_burdell> why you going to toronto?
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78 2014-03-30 01:01:23 <lclc> mr_burdell: I'm just travellign through North America for fun. I will also attend the NY conference
79 2014-03-30 01:01:38 <lclc> and the Brooklyn BTC meetup if I can make it
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81 2014-03-30 01:01:57 <olalonde> lclc: not that cheap, at least in Canada⦠most flight within Asia are really cheap in comparison. Hong Kong singapore can go as low as 50$
82 2014-03-30 01:02:03 <mr_burdell> there's a brooklyn specific one?
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85 2014-03-30 01:02:31 <lclc> mr_burdell: yes, it's new. Saw it on meetup.com, since there is no Manhatten meetup until the conference
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87 2014-03-30 01:02:45 <lclc> olalonde: well ok, but compared to European flights..
88 2014-03-30 01:02:57 <lclc> and Air Asia is realy shitty....
89 2014-03-30 01:02:57 <olalonde> yup
90 2014-03-30 01:03:01 <mr_burdell> there's the bitcoin center... it has meetups every saturday and monday
91 2014-03-30 01:03:08 <mr_burdell> and bitdevs is on tuesdays
92 2014-03-30 01:03:24 <lclc> mr_burdell: mh ok, then I missed that. Do you have a link>
93 2014-03-30 01:03:26 <lclc> ?
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96 2014-03-30 01:03:47 <mr_burdell> https://www.facebook.com/NYCoin
97 2014-03-30 01:04:08 <mr_burdell> http://www.meetup.com/BitDevsNYC/
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101 2014-03-30 01:05:20 <lclc> thanks! Same day like the Brooklyn meetup hm. I'll see, already pressed RSVP there ( a man a word :S)^^
102 2014-03-30 01:06:04 <lclc> ah not, it's the day before, great :D
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104 2014-03-30 01:07:38 <mr_burdell> you can stop by the bitcoin center almost any time... so I'd stop by there even if you can't make the meetup
105 2014-03-30 01:08:17 <lclc> ok, I'll check that out too. So much BTC stuff in my calender now xD
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174 2014-03-30 02:44:24 <kanzure> is there a way to dump transactions in bulk over rpc? instead of getting transactions one at a time
175 2014-03-30 02:44:44 <kanzure> actually, it doesn't have to be rpc i suppose
176 2014-03-30 02:45:39 <kanzure> i am bottlenecking at a bunch of getrawtransaction calls
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185 2014-03-30 02:55:39 <Luke-Jr> kanzure: JSON-RPC batching
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378 2014-03-30 08:28:50 <wallet42> hey i wonder whats your best theory on why satoshi chose 21 million?
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449 2014-03-30 09:53:12 <wumpus> it came to him in a dream, he found a clay tablet on top of a mountain with the number inscribed in it
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473 2014-03-30 10:18:56 <wumpus> he probably just picked a number, so that in satoshis it is a safe margin below what fits in 63 bits to avoid overflow problems, it's even below 53 bits so that it would fit in the mantissa of a double
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577 2014-03-30 12:29:43 <Alina-malina> Luke-Jr, any reason why you not recommend to use blockchain.info to check multisig addresses balances?
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658 2014-03-30 13:53:29 <Alina-malina> sipa, hey sipa is it possible to separately comiple the "watchonly" tool to make request to it and get the bitcoin address current balance?
659 2014-03-30 13:53:36 <Alina-malina> sipa, i mean multisig address
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664 2014-03-30 13:59:19 <andytoshi> Alina-malina: bc.i is an endless source of disinfo, so it's a terrible idea period to do anything financial based on what they say. the arguments for this belong in #bitcoin and have been beaten to death.
665 2014-03-30 14:00:09 <Alina-malina> andytoshi,please help me with advice i am in lost
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667 2014-03-30 14:00:57 <andytoshi> if you went into a physical cheque-cashing business and asked 'which is the account number and which is the routing number?', and they replied "it doesn't matter, just use either", would you give them your money?
668 2014-03-30 14:02:11 <Alina-malina> andytoshi, i need to make a check of multisig address if the funds are available there or not, i dont know how to do this, please give me idea
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672 2014-03-30 14:04:54 <sipa> Alina-malina: yes, that's the purpose if watchonly wallets... only watching
673 2014-03-30 14:05:10 <Alina-malina> sipa, is it possible to make that watchonly part separately working?
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675 2014-03-30 14:06:04 <Alina-malina> also please tell me is txid safe and it can be altered?
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677 2014-03-30 14:06:27 <Alina-malina> how to make sure that the txid that i am checking is 100 valid and not some mel. attack
678 2014-03-30 14:07:58 <sipa> if it confirms, you're fine
679 2014-03-30 14:08:20 <Alina-malina> how to make a check request if it is confrmed or not?
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683 2014-03-30 14:10:13 <sipa> Alina-malina: #bitcoin please
684 2014-03-30 14:10:25 <Alina-malina> hmmm okie
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686 2014-03-30 14:10:43 <Alina-malina> sipa, so if confirmations are number of 6 then the txid is valid right?
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689 2014-03-30 14:11:21 <sipa> Alina-malina: any txid is valid, or bitcoind wouldn't accept it
690 2014-03-30 14:11:35 <sipa> Alina-malina: the question is whether it will confirm
691 2014-03-30 14:11:53 <sipa> Alina-malina: 6 confirmations is generally considered enough for most purposes
692 2014-03-30 14:12:02 <Alina-malina> even for multisig?
693 2014-03-30 14:12:26 <sipa> that has absolutely nothing to do with it
694 2014-03-30 14:12:38 <Alina-malina> hmmm
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698 2014-03-30 14:13:07 <sipa> i really suggest you try to understand hwo bitcoin works before setting up an automated services that uses multisig
699 2014-03-30 14:13:16 <Alina-malina> hmm
700 2014-03-30 14:13:30 <Alina-malina> right
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767 2014-03-30 15:15:04 <mr_burdell> does anyone know of a simple server I could install that would support BIP0070?
768 2014-03-30 15:15:23 <mr_burdell> I've got to the point where my testing is going to start getting expensive
769 2014-03-30 15:15:59 jordandotdev has joined
770 2014-03-30 15:16:06 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Does anyone know if BlueMatt intentionally omitted dropped raring from the PPA?
771 2014-03-30 15:17:51 <teward> michagogo|cloud: raring EOL'd a while ago
772 2014-03-30 15:18:00 <teward> michagogo|cloud: the PPA builders no longer accept raring uploads
773 2014-03-30 15:18:03 <teward> and haven't for a while
774 2014-03-30 15:18:09 * teward pulls the last date on a raring upload
775 2014-03-30 15:18:09 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|teward: Did quantal not?
776 2014-03-30 15:18:24 hearn has quit (Quit: hearn)
777 2014-03-30 15:18:42 <teward> michagogo|cloud: no it didn't, it's the first release in the new eol cycle that eol'd before everything before it
778 2014-03-30 15:18:43 cbeams has joined
779 2014-03-30 15:18:50 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Ah.
780 2014-03-30 15:18:58 <teward> michagogo|cloud: raring EOL'd in january sometime so at the same time the PPA builders ceased accepting raring uploads
781 2014-03-30 15:19:12 <teward> so he can upload for raring but it won't accept the upload.
782 2014-03-30 15:19:14 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|So PPAs aren't allowed to include packages for EOL'd releases? o_O
783 2014-03-30 15:19:24 <teward> michagogo|cloud: after the EOL, the builders no longer accept uploads for them
784 2014-03-30 15:19:36 <teward> the packages that were there prior to EOL remain there, but you can't push new uploads
785 2014-03-30 15:19:37 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|I would have thought that was one of the reasons to use PPAs O_o
786 2014-03-30 15:19:39 <teward> it's always been tat way
787 2014-03-30 15:19:53 <teward> michagogo|cloud: wherever you got that from should be burned with fire
788 2014-03-30 15:19:54 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|I guess you learn something new every day.
789 2014-03-30 15:20:10 <wumpus> they probably don't want to keep build servers around for EOLed releases
790 2014-03-30 15:20:11 <teward> michagogo|cloud: PPAs are better used for "Newer software in older releases, if and only if the release is still not end of life"
791 2014-03-30 15:20:12 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|teward: note that I'm not very familiar with the world of Ubuntu
792 2014-03-30 15:20:37 <teward> michagogo|cloud: should poke me when you have questions, I'm pretty in tune with the ubuntu world
793 2014-03-30 15:20:53 <teward> wumpus: actually, its' more a case of "they don't want to have to keep the EOL release in the mirrors"
794 2014-03-30 15:21:00 <teward> and the PPA builders only pull from the mirrors, not oldreleases
795 2014-03-30 15:21:09 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|teward: PPAs have mirrors?
796 2014-03-30 15:21:16 <teward> michagogo|cloud: no, the repositories have mirrors
797 2014-03-30 15:21:22 * michagogo cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|is confused
798 2014-03-30 15:21:27 <teward> michagogo|cloud: then don't speak.
799 2014-03-30 15:21:29 * teward grumbles
800 2014-03-30 15:21:34 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Maybe I don't understand the process that PPA builders use?
801 2014-03-30 15:21:37 <teward> sorry, i'm pissed at my firewall
802 2014-03-30 15:21:42 Raziel has joined
803 2014-03-30 15:22:07 <teward> michagogo|cloud: it uses a program called 'sbuild'. the chroots for sbuild refer to the Ubuntu Repositories, specifically a copy of the mirrors that exists locally on each of the builders, I think
804 2014-03-30 15:22:22 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Oh, do the build servers fetch packages and stuff from the repos for each build?
805 2014-03-30 15:22:37 <teward> michagogo|cloud: but those "repositories" are mirrors of the main Ubuntu repositories, not oldreleases
806 2014-03-30 15:22:46 <teward> and when something EOLs one of two things happens:
807 2014-03-30 15:22:49 blackwhite has joined
808 2014-03-30 15:23:01 <teward> (1) the PPA upload accepting system either has the EOL release disabled for accepted uploads
809 2014-03-30 15:23:12 <teward> or (2) the repositories no longer have the EOL release data stored
810 2014-03-30 15:23:15 <teward> michagogo|cloud: and yes, that's exactly it
811 2014-03-30 15:23:28 <teward> it pulls all the build deps every time
812 2014-03-30 15:23:36 <teward> each chroot has the core files necessary for Ubuntu, but not every package
813 2014-03-30 15:23:40 <Akima> LTS releases FTW!
814 2014-03-30 15:23:43 haqe17 has joined
815 2014-03-30 15:23:53 <teward> the idea is the chroot is rebuilt every single time and then destroyed when the package is done building
816 2014-03-30 15:24:06 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|So kinda like gitian?
817 2014-03-30 15:24:11 * teward has never used gitian
818 2014-03-30 15:24:17 <teward> so i can't give you a comparison
819 2014-03-30 15:24:19 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|;;lucky gitian
820 2014-03-30 15:24:20 <gribble> http://gitian.org/
821 2014-03-30 15:24:31 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|It's what's used for deterministic builds of Bitcoin Core
822 2014-03-30 15:24:35 <teward> yeah kinda
823 2014-03-30 15:24:47 <teward> you can compare it to the travis-ci stuff that can be used for builds of things on github too
824 2014-03-30 15:24:50 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Basically, you create a base VM
825 2014-03-30 15:24:54 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Or, it creates one for you
826 2014-03-30 15:24:56 <teward> right
827 2014-03-30 15:25:00 <teward> for each build
828 2014-03-30 15:25:01 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Using python-vm-builder
829 2014-03-30 15:25:20 <teward> michagogo|cloud: the only difference is that in sbuild it uses schroot, so it's not a VM, it's a chrooted environment
830 2014-03-30 15:25:42 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Then for each build, it creates a clean copy of that VM (by copying or snapshotting it, depending on the vm in use)
831 2014-03-30 15:25:54 <teward> but the first of those two things that happens happens with the EOL release, the upload processing system for PPAs has the EOL release disabled
832 2014-03-30 15:26:07 <teward> so if you try and upload, it throws an "Invalid Release" or "Not valid release" error
833 2014-03-30 15:26:33 * michagogo cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|has heard from a couple people who tried saucy but then went back to raring because they had problems
834 2014-03-30 15:26:45 <teward> michagogo|cloud: and now that raring is EOL, those people are SOL
835 2014-03-30 15:27:00 <teward> michagogo|cloud: if they really want it to work, tell them to use the LTS only
836 2014-03-30 15:27:03 <teward> which is 12.04 right now
837 2014-03-30 15:27:18 <teward> long term support, but the trade-off for stability is that you lose new software features
838 2014-03-30 15:27:22 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Wait, Raring's not even a year old and already EOL? o_O
839 2014-03-30 15:27:39 <teward> michagogo|cloud: how about i get you the changelog data for the release cycles
840 2014-03-30 15:28:02 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|What is that data?
841 2014-03-30 15:28:07 <Akima> michagogo|cloud: from here on out non-LTS releases only get 9 months of support
842 2014-03-30 15:28:22 <teward> michagogo|cloud: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Releases go read the Management of releases part
843 2014-03-30 15:28:28 <teward> and yes, what Akima said
844 2014-03-30 15:28:33 <teward> that started with raring 13.04
845 2014-03-30 15:28:47 <teward> quantal is the last non-LTS release that will have the old-style support amount
846 2014-03-30 15:28:55 <teward> Support length
847 2014-03-30 15:28:55 <teward> Regular releases are supported for 9 months.
848 2014-03-30 15:28:55 <teward> Long term support (LTS) releases are for 5 years.
849 2014-03-30 15:28:55 <teward> Older releases may have different support length.
850 2014-03-30 15:29:01 <teward> (from the wiki page i gave you)
851 2014-03-30 15:29:12 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Yeah, just saw that
852 2014-03-30 15:29:20 <teward> note that "Regular Releases" is any non-LTS release after 13.04 (including 13.04)
853 2014-03-30 15:29:30 <teward> Older is anything pre-13.04, excluding the LTS
854 2014-03-30 15:29:40 cbeams has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
855 2014-03-30 15:29:51 <teward> anything older than 12.04, save for 10.04 LTS, is also EOL now, so...
856 2014-03-30 15:30:04 <Akima> Not long until 14.04 LTS!
857 2014-03-30 15:30:09 <teward> Lucid, Precise, Quantal (until sometime in April 2014), Saucy, and Trusty are all supported
858 2014-03-30 15:30:25 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Interesting.
859 2014-03-30 15:30:27 <teward> i'm still trying to get the QUantal EOL date from the release team, they're just slow to respond on IRC (i'm seeking a specific date, for the nginx stuff)
860 2014-03-30 15:30:39 <teward> DAMN YOU STUPID FIREWALL, Y U NO WORK.
861 2014-03-30 15:30:41 * teward grumbles
862 2014-03-30 15:30:50 <Akima> I probably wont upgrade from 12.04 to 14.04 until 14.04 has been out for about 6 months. I find Ubuntu releases to be pretty flakey on initial release.
863 2014-03-30 15:31:17 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|So EOL isn't just "we're stopping active support", it's "you shouldn't be using this and we're completely shutting down all the infrastructure for that release"
864 2014-03-30 15:31:17 jumpnmove is now known as GhostJump
865 2014-03-30 15:31:25 <Akima> michagogo|cloud: yes
866 2014-03-30 15:31:29 <Akima> absolutely
867 2014-03-30 15:31:50 <Akima> security problems wont be addressed, in non-supported Ubuntu releases so they're very unsafe to use.
868 2014-03-30 15:32:02 <Akima> unless you're using them on offline-only machines
869 2014-03-30 15:32:03 <teward> michagogo|cloud: it's both, the idea is "We aren't supporting this anymore, and because we don't support it, you get no security updates so f*** you, upload or be stuck with vulnerable software that is unsafe)
870 2014-03-30 15:32:12 <teward> s/upload/upgrade/
871 2014-03-30 15:32:15 <teward> stupid autocorrect...
872 2014-03-30 15:32:15 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|teward: do you mean upgr-
873 2014-03-30 15:32:20 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|:P
874 2014-03-30 15:32:28 <Akima> ninja correction
875 2014-03-30 15:32:45 * teward wins
876 2014-03-30 15:32:49 <teward> NEXT!
877 2014-03-30 15:32:54 <Akima> :P
878 2014-03-30 15:32:56 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Hm, I think I might still have a raring VM somewhere
879 2014-03-30 15:32:59 * michagogo cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|checks
880 2014-03-30 15:33:02 <teward> michagogo|cloud: i had a raring VM
881 2014-03-30 15:33:08 <teward> i just nuked it to make space for a saucy VM
882 2014-03-30 15:33:14 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|I should probably clean up my virtualbox VMs...
883 2014-03-30 15:33:22 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|teward: why not just upgrade it?
884 2014-03-30 15:33:30 <blackwhite> hola peeps
885 2014-03-30 15:33:32 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Oh, you're LordOfTime
886 2014-03-30 15:33:43 <buZz> debian ftw
887 2014-03-30 15:33:54 <teward> michagogo|cloud: because i destroy my VMs on occasion
888 2014-03-30 15:34:02 <teward> michagogo|cloud: and i prefer clean install environments for my bug testing
889 2014-03-30 15:34:02 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Why?
890 2014-03-30 15:34:09 <teward> [14/03/30 11:32:36] <teward> michagogo|cloud: and i prefer clean install environments for my bug testing
891 2014-03-30 15:34:22 <buZz> just install clean -current- source?
892 2014-03-30 15:34:24 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|How is an upgrade different than a clean install?
893 2014-03-30 15:34:26 <teward> michagogo|cloud: my primary role is bug triage and testing.
894 2014-03-30 15:34:30 <buZz> if you want a clean install, dont install ubuntu :P
895 2014-03-30 15:34:49 <Akima> buZz: what makes you choose debian over Ubuntu?
896 2014-03-30 15:34:51 <teward> someone looks like they want slapped
897 2014-03-30 15:35:06 <buZz> Akima: less obnoxious behaviour in package selection
898 2014-03-30 15:35:34 <Akima> What is obnoixious about Canonical's package select behaviour?
899 2014-03-30 15:35:37 <buZz> Akima: and less hoops to jump through to remove the bloatware
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901 2014-03-30 15:35:38 <teward> buZz: that applies to all releases, Debian included.
902 2014-03-30 15:35:48 <teward> and define "bloatware"
903 2014-03-30 15:35:55 <teward> because Debian's desktop installer installs some bloatware too
904 2014-03-30 15:36:05 * teward uses a custom package manifest for his images anyways
905 2014-03-30 15:36:07 <buZz> anything touched by canonical
906 2014-03-30 15:36:09 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Bah, another vbox update?
907 2014-03-30 15:36:13 <Akima> :P
908 2014-03-30 15:36:24 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Seems like I need to upgrade that thing every time I use it
909 2014-03-30 15:36:32 <teward> buZz: probably best to take this discussion elsewhere
910 2014-03-30 15:36:44 <teward> but your statement is completely flawed, I can have the same argument for Debian, Mint, or any other distribution
911 2014-03-30 15:36:55 <teward> enjoy your stupidity.
912 2014-03-30 15:37:14 <Akima> I'm thinking of switching to Debian if Canonical have introduced too many privacy / proprietary-software problems into 14.04
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914 2014-03-30 15:37:27 <buZz> teward: lovely, ty
915 2014-03-30 15:37:29 <Akima> I love the ease of use of Ubuntu though.
916 2014-03-30 15:37:31 <teward> Akima: 99% of what I do is command line, so I just use the server image :P
917 2014-03-30 15:37:42 <buZz> same obniousious behaviour i see with most ubuntu users ;)
918 2014-03-30 15:37:50 <buZz> add an x somewhere
919 2014-03-30 15:37:58 <gmaxwell> Please take this elsewhere.
920 2014-03-30 15:37:59 <teward> run a GUI when i absolutely need it, but as I have a custom manifest of what gets installed on my installs, I selectively ignore the packages that introduce the privacy issues
921 2014-03-30 15:38:10 <gmaxwell> I will not ask again.
922 2014-03-30 15:38:11 <teward> Akima: the proprietary-software issues exist in Debian too, though, what with some drivers and skype and such
923 2014-03-30 15:38:15 * teward disappears
924 2014-03-30 15:38:23 * Akima disappears
925 2014-03-30 15:38:43 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|teward: btw, do you know debian packaging? If so, do you feel like putting together dummy packages to SRU (if I'm remembering the name of the proposal correctly) to effectively remove the old to ancient versions of Bitcoin from the old releases of Ubuntu?
926 2014-03-30 15:38:58 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|s/debian/Ubuntu/
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992 2014-03-30 16:35:24 <BCB> in getblock, what does "bits" refer to?
993 2014-03-30 16:35:30 VossArtesian has joined
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997 2014-03-30 16:38:24 <sipa> BCB: bitcoin's compact encoding of the block target/difficulty
998 2014-03-30 16:38:46 BCBot` has joined
999 2014-03-30 16:39:13 <BCB> sipa, thank you. for what purpose? to aid miners
1000 2014-03-30 16:40:24 <sipa> no
1001 2014-03-30 16:40:29 <sipa> to help verification
1002 2014-03-30 16:40:39 <sipa> not sure why satoshi put it there of course
1003 2014-03-30 16:40:51 <sipa> but it does help detecting some types of invalid blocks early
1004 2014-03-30 16:40:57 MaxSan1 has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
1005 2014-03-30 16:40:57 <sipa> without needing to know their parent
1006 2014-03-30 16:41:07 <sipa> as there are bounds on how fast the difficulty can change
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1010 2014-03-30 16:43:22 <BCB> sipa where is the "difficulty" value in the bits
1011 2014-03-30 16:44:15 <BCB> sipa or does the bits value represent the difficulty
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1015 2014-03-30 16:45:52 <sipa> BCB: difficulty is human interpretation
1016 2014-03-30 16:46:16 <sipa> BCB: the only thing that matters at the protocol level is the target (the number block hashes have to be below)
1017 2014-03-30 16:46:27 <sipa> BCB: difficulty = max_target / real_target
1018 2014-03-30 16:46:34 <sipa> BCB: bits is a compact encoding of the target
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1021 2014-03-30 16:48:04 <BCB> sipa thank you
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1038 2014-03-30 17:04:30 <BCB> what is the cmd for dmpwallet in v0.9. I don't seem to be able to find the output file
1039 2014-03-30 17:04:55 d34th has joined
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1041 2014-03-30 17:05:56 <BCB> found it. Seems to be dumping them in a random directory??
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1044 2014-03-30 17:09:38 <sipa> if you don't specify a path, it dumps it in its current working directory
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1049 2014-03-30 17:18:37 <venzen> is 92d25e4eebbc20c4b056faeab688b2cef5790bac still the correct tag for 0.9.0 on GitHub?
1050 2014-03-30 17:20:05 <venzen> nvm - yes it is
1051 2014-03-30 17:20:09 <sipa> yes
1052 2014-03-30 17:20:19 <venzen> thanks sipa
1053 2014-03-30 17:20:59 PK has quit ()
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1055 2014-03-30 17:22:17 <BCB> sipa fyi it did not dump in the working dirctory. It dumped two levels down. Not sure why
1056 2014-03-30 17:22:21 T19EL has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
1057 2014-03-30 17:23:34 <sipa> BCB: the working directory of bitcoind
1058 2014-03-30 17:23:34 imsaguy has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1059 2014-03-30 17:23:41 <sipa> BCB: not of the rpc client
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1062 2014-03-30 17:24:27 <BCB> sipa it was also outside of the bitcoind working dir
1063 2014-03-30 17:25:32 <sipa> hmm, strange
1064 2014-03-30 17:25:41 <sipa> in any case, best practice: specify a full path
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1075 2014-03-30 17:32:31 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|01:19:52 <sipa> 0.3.24?? | 01:20:01 <sipa> where do you even find that? <-- In the ubuntu repo :-(
1076 2014-03-30 17:32:31 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|01:21:24 <maaku> it would be better if Ubuntu just removed the package | 01:21:28 <maaku> since they don't maintain it <-- Doing that requires that someone create and propose (as an exception to the "no non-bug fixes to packages in released versions", called "stable release upgrade" IIRC) a dummy package that effectively removes it. If you can do that,
1077 2014-03-30 17:32:31 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|great. I unfortunately don't know how to do that.
1078 2014-03-30 17:33:01 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|sipa: Basically, Ubuntu automatically syncs its packages from Debian unstable
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1082 2014-03-30 17:33:53 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|I talked to them a while back and they removed Bitcoin (and Litecoin) from Trusty (the upcoming release) and blacklisted it from further syncing
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1084 2014-03-30 17:34:29 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|But the earlier versions are stuck with whatever versions they had at the time that they were released: http://packages.ubuntu.com/search?keywords=bitcoin&searchon=names&suite=all§ion=all
1085 2014-03-30 17:35:54 <maaku> michagogo|cloud: good :)
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1088 2014-03-30 17:37:20 <maaku> about trusty at least. sucks that it's not a simple process to get the earlier releases updated
1089 2014-03-30 17:38:01 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|maaku: Do you know how to package for Ubuntu/Debian?
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1091 2014-03-30 17:38:44 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Hmm, I wonder why the PPA build failed for Saucy i386 o_O
1092 2014-03-30 17:39:05 <maaku> how to build a package? sure, I have a script somewhere that does that for the Freicoin PPA. Integrate with the ubuntu/debian release process? no clue
1093 2014-03-30 17:39:39 <maaku> michagogo|cloud: probably dependencies (e.g. db4.8)
1094 2014-03-30 17:39:41 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|https://launchpad.net/~bitcoin/+archive/bitcoin/+sourcepub/4039613/+listing-archive-extra <-- amd64 built fine, i386 failed
1095 2014-03-30 17:39:55 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|And all the other releases succeeded
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1097 2014-03-30 17:40:11 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|maaku: the PPA has db4.8 packages
1098 2014-03-30 17:40:13 blackwhite has quit (Quit: blackwhite)
1099 2014-03-30 17:40:46 <maaku> "configure: error: Could not find a version of the library!" is certainly helpful :P
1100 2014-03-30 17:41:18 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|maaku: boost, I think
1101 2014-03-30 17:41:33 <maaku> yes, boost_system would have been the next check
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1103 2014-03-30 17:41:46 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|It's weird, though
1104 2014-03-30 17:41:55 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Why would it work on amd64 and not i386?
1105 2014-03-30 17:44:10 <maaku> too bad they don't give the full log
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1110 2014-03-30 17:47:29 <maaku> at this point I'd suggest running saucy amd64 in a vm
1111 2014-03-30 17:47:46 <maaku> it's the config.log that will tell you the error
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1124 2014-03-30 18:02:11 <A> an!~Alan@173.218.169.223|Bitcoin-qt has a default database cache size of 100 MB...is that sufficient or should it be increased?
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1126 2014-03-30 18:03:13 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|A|an: you can leave that as-is
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1129 2014-03-30 18:03:47 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|If you're doing a reindex, you may want to temporarily increase that to as much as you can spare, up to around 2000, to speed it up
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1131 2014-03-30 18:03:59 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Luke-Jr: ping
1132 2014-03-30 18:04:15 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Luke-Jr: I found a copy of bitcoin-deps-0.0.5, if you still need help building
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1136 2014-03-30 18:11:02 <JWU42> A|an: I think the default cache just got changed from 25-100 in 0.9.0
1137 2014-03-30 18:11:14 <JWU42> but good advice to increase on a reindex
1138 2014-03-30 18:11:22 the_2nd has joined
1139 2014-03-30 18:11:22 <JWU42> never thought of that :/
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1141 2014-03-30 18:12:21 <sipa> it actually almost only matters for reindexing
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1145 2014-03-30 18:14:33 <A> an!~Alan@173.218.169.223|well, blindly, I increased it to 300
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1148 2014-03-30 18:14:59 <A> an!~Alan@173.218.169.223|figured the floored wouldn't collapse or the roof fly away if i did that
1149 2014-03-30 18:15:08 <JWU42> sipa: thanks for chiming in
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1153 2014-03-30 18:16:11 <roy7> I just built from source and the --help version is Bitcoin Core Daemon version v0.9.0.0-g92d25e4-beta. Does that seem correct or did I not get the final 0.9.0 release?
1154 2014-03-30 18:16:40 Guyver2 has joined
1155 2014-03-30 18:17:09 <roy7> (I wasn't expecting the -beta suffix)
1156 2014-03-30 18:17:17 <sipa> every bitcoin release ever has been beta
1157 2014-03-30 18:17:29 <roy7> Ah ok. Thanks.
1158 2014-03-30 18:17:36 <sipa> but yes, that is correct
1159 2014-03-30 18:17:43 <sipa> even the git commit id matches
1160 2014-03-30 18:18:30 speed- has joined
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1162 2014-03-30 18:19:08 <speed-> hey guys, can someone tell me what should I do with my wallet, first it said I need to ugprade I had 0.8.6, then i upgraded to latest on github and now I have this error: "errors" : "Warning: The network does not appear to fully agree! Some miners appear to be experiencing issues."
1163 2014-03-30 18:19:14 <speed-> any idea?
1164 2014-03-30 18:20:18 <venzen> did you checkout tag 92d25e4eebbc20c4b056faeab688b2cef5790bac from github?
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1166 2014-03-30 18:21:12 <venzen> the 0.9.0 tag (not rc3 as is the default if you just clone the master branch)
1167 2014-03-30 18:21:33 <roy7> I'm not sure if it's this simple but all you might need to do is 'git checkout 0.9.0'. I'm not sure if that's correct though.
1168 2014-03-30 18:22:09 <venzen> that should work
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1170 2014-03-30 18:23:40 <speed-> and recompile wallet again?
1171 2014-03-30 18:23:47 rdbell has quit (Quit: rdbell)
1172 2014-03-30 18:24:06 <venzen> speed-: correct
1173 2014-03-30 18:24:15 qwebirc74128 has joined
1174 2014-03-30 18:24:21 <speed-> ok lemme see what happens :)
1175 2014-03-30 18:24:22 <speed-> thanks
1176 2014-03-30 18:27:04 <Luke-Jr> Alina-malina: 1) it's centralised, 2) addresses don't have balances, 3) it can be wrong/compromised/etc
1177 2014-03-30 18:27:28 <Alina-malina> Luke-Jr, hmmm okie
1178 2014-03-30 18:27:40 <Luke-Jr> michagogo|cloud: maybe wait for rc2; rc1 has some technical issues from trying to tolerate 0.9 indexes
1179 2014-03-30 18:27:56 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Luke-Jr: Hmm, I don't see a tag?
1180 2014-03-30 18:28:02 <Alina-malina> Luke-Jr, so what is the best way to check the multisig balance if there is no txid provided by coin sender how to make that check?
1181 2014-03-30 18:28:14 <Luke-Jr> michagogo|cloud: well, it's there (in the stable repo)
1182 2014-03-30 18:28:19 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|(I also get email and SMS notifications for those)
1183 2014-03-30 18:28:23 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|The stable repo?
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1185 2014-03-30 18:28:42 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Is there more than 1 repo?
1186 2014-03-30 18:28:55 <Luke-Jr> https://gitorious.org/bitcoin/bitcoind-stable
1187 2014-03-30 18:29:13 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|WHAT IS THAT? O_o
1188 2014-03-30 18:29:14 <Luke-Jr> michagogo|cloud: GitHub traditionally just has master
1189 2014-03-30 18:29:15 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Erm
1190 2014-03-30 18:29:24 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Sorry, that was unintentional
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1192 2014-03-30 18:30:38 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Luke-Jr: How come?
1193 2014-03-30 18:31:00 <owowo> warren: ping ?
1194 2014-03-30 18:31:09 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Also, unless I'm misunderstanding that statement, it isn't true
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1196 2014-03-30 18:31:18 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|All of 0.8.3-6 were on GH
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1205 2014-03-30 18:38:21 <Luke-Jr> michagogo|cloud: because I was the only one working on them, as a separate project. 0.8.3-6 were before 0.9.0 was released, so got a little more attention.
1206 2014-03-30 18:38:53 <Luke-Jr> michagogo|cloud: in general, we want to discourage anyone from actually using the backports unless they really have to
1207 2014-03-30 18:39:30 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|So what are we doing with the sigs, if it's a separate thing?
1208 2014-03-30 18:40:00 <sipa> speed-: your database is perhaps corrupted
1209 2014-03-30 18:40:30 <Luke-Jr> michagogo|cloud: sigs just use the same repo usually.
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1211 2014-03-30 18:40:45 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Luke-Jr: For versions that have no trace on GH? o_O
1212 2014-03-30 18:40:52 <Luke-Jr> michagogo|cloud: yes
1213 2014-03-30 18:40:57 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Why is that?
1214 2014-03-30 18:41:11 <Luke-Jr> michagogo|cloud: easier to have them in one place
1215 2014-03-30 18:41:50 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Is it not easier to have the code in the same place too?
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1217 2014-03-30 18:42:02 <Luke-Jr> not significantly, no
1218 2014-03-30 18:42:14 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Also, I see the descriptors in the gitorious repository aren't changed to point to that repo?
1219 2014-03-30 18:42:18 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|s/?//
1220 2014-03-30 18:42:22 <sipa> gavin doesn't feel like luke's stable backports are "official"
1221 2014-03-30 18:42:22 <Luke-Jr> git supports multiple repositories quite transparently
1222 2014-03-30 18:42:42 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|sipa: ah
1223 2014-03-30 18:42:50 <Luke-Jr> michagogo|cloud: they should be..
1224 2014-03-30 18:43:10 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|https://gitorious.org/bitcoin/bitcoind-stable/source/c35f097d3112d753263006644a2cd72003cc306a:contrib/gitian-descriptors/gitian-win32.yml#L15
1225 2014-03-30 18:43:25 <Luke-Jr> sipa: eh, first I've heard that line I think; usually he just sticks to "are a waste of time"
1226 2014-03-30 18:43:31 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Same with https://gitorious.org/bitcoin/bitcoind-stable/source/c35f097d3112d753263006644a2cd72003cc306a:contrib/gitian-descriptors/gitian.yml#L23
1227 2014-03-30 18:43:56 <Luke-Jr> michagogo|cloud: hmm, oops.
1228 2014-03-30 18:44:06 <sipa> Luke-Jr: i was trying to be polite :)
1229 2014-03-30 18:44:31 <Luke-Jr> i c
1230 2014-03-30 18:44:53 <sipa> well, i do agree that they get way less attention, and i'm not sure that trying to give them more attention is the right thing to do
1231 2014-03-30 18:45:07 <sipa> but it is a weird situation, having them hosted in a totally different place/way
1232 2014-03-30 18:45:44 <Luke-Jr> meh, not worth trying to change; definitely want to give people excuses to upgrade to the latest version in any case
1233 2014-03-30 18:46:10 <sipa> indeed
1234 2014-03-30 18:46:21 <Luke-Jr> I was surprised to see people actually still using 0.6.x. Intentionally didn't tag/announce that one.
1235 2014-03-30 18:46:57 <Alina-malina> Luke-Jr, what is the best way to check the multisig balance if there is no txid provided by coin sender how to make that check?
1236 2014-03-30 18:47:13 <Luke-Jr> Alina-malina: there are zero good ways to do multisig wallets today, AFAIK
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1238 2014-03-30 18:47:36 <Alina-malina> Luke-Jr, only console mode? and based in txid is the most reliable way?
1239 2014-03-30 18:47:51 <Luke-Jr> Alina-malina: I believe CodeShark has something for it, but I'm not sure how well-tested it is
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1241 2014-03-30 18:48:07 <Alina-malina> Luke-Jr, what about watchonly?
1242 2014-03-30 18:48:12 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Luke-Jr: What is the purpose of the backport branches?
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1244 2014-03-30 18:48:24 <Luke-Jr> michagogo|cloud: to provide an option to people who can't upgrade yet
1245 2014-03-30 18:49:07 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Do you think there are people who can't upgrade and can't build their own binaries?
1246 2014-03-30 18:49:12 <maaku> michagogo|cloud: many service providers have custom patches on top of bitcoind
1247 2014-03-30 18:49:25 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|maaku: right, I know that
1248 2014-03-30 18:49:39 <maaku> those patches are a pain to migrate cross versions
1249 2014-03-30 18:49:46 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|What I was wondering is, how much are release binaries for the backports really needed?
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1254 2014-03-30 18:50:46 <Alina-malina> maaku, this watchonly that you propose yesterday, is it in bitcoind clent and should be compiled? or can i just use some separate part of that code without compiling the entire bitcoind client and use like for example python script or something like that?
1255 2014-03-30 18:51:12 <maaku> Alina-malina: I think you have me confused with someone else
1256 2014-03-30 18:51:13 <Luke-Jr> michagogo|cloud: I doubt binaries are needed.
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1258 2014-03-30 18:51:42 <sipa> Alina-malina: as i said before, watchonly is just a separate branch with a patch
1259 2014-03-30 18:51:51 <Alina-malina> sipa, is it reliable?
1260 2014-03-30 18:51:57 <sipa> Alina-malina: maybe
1261 2014-03-30 18:52:15 <sipa> Alina-malina: by using it and testing it you can increase the chance for it being merged
1262 2014-03-30 18:52:16 <Alina-malina> sipa, maybe i should run the local copy of blockexplorer+abe?
1263 2014-03-30 18:52:21 <sipa> Alina-malina: hell no
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1265 2014-03-30 18:52:40 <sipa> that's even worse than addrindex
1266 2014-03-30 18:52:41 <Alina-malina> hmmm what does blockchain.i run on their background?
1267 2014-03-30 18:52:48 <sipa> stuff they wrote
1268 2014-03-30 18:52:51 <sipa> on a huge server
1269 2014-03-30 18:53:05 <Alina-malina> sipa, could you guide me with addrindex?
1270 2014-03-30 18:53:08 <Luke-Jr> it's buggy and shouldn't be merged, but multisig use somewhat depends on the bug.
1271 2014-03-30 18:53:09 <sipa> no
1272 2014-03-30 18:53:15 <Alina-malina> hmmm
1273 2014-03-30 18:53:24 <sipa> i believe it is the wrong solution
1274 2014-03-30 18:53:36 <sipa> for almost every case where people want to use it (including yours)
1275 2014-03-30 18:53:43 <Alina-malina> so only txid check is the right solution?
1276 2014-03-30 18:54:00 <Luke-Jr> the right solution is a multisig wallet. but that isn't written yet.
1277 2014-03-30 18:54:03 <sipa> no, just run a watchonly wallet with the p2sh address in it
1278 2014-03-30 18:54:12 <sipa> it works exactly like any other wallet
1279 2014-03-30 18:54:17 <sipa> except that you can't just spend the funds
1280 2014-03-30 18:54:21 <sipa> no need for manual checking
1281 2014-03-30 18:54:27 <Alina-malina> how to setup this wallet with p2sh address
1282 2014-03-30 18:54:40 <sipa> just check for confirmed balance on transactions to the address
1283 2014-03-30 18:54:45 <sipa> -balance
1284 2014-03-30 18:54:54 <Luke-Jr> that only works for a single address, not a real wallet :x
1285 2014-03-30 18:54:57 <Alina-malina> with balance it gives 0.000 but i knwo that thre are some btc
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1287 2014-03-30 18:55:10 <sipa> Alina-malina: are you using watchonly?
1288 2014-03-30 18:55:17 <Alina-malina> no bitcoind
1289 2014-03-30 18:55:22 * Luke-Jr facepalms
1290 2014-03-30 18:55:27 <sipa> Alina-malina: watchonly IS bitcoind
1291 2014-03-30 18:55:31 <Alina-malina> oh
1292 2014-03-30 18:55:32 <sipa> just a patch for it
1293 2014-03-30 18:55:47 <sipa> and current bitcoind will not track transactions to multisig addresses
1294 2014-03-30 18:55:58 <Luke-Jr> sipa: are you still working on HD wallet support btw?
1295 2014-03-30 18:56:09 <sipa> Luke-Jr: i haven't had the time lately, but i'm very close yes
1296 2014-03-30 18:56:20 <Alina-malina> how can i get that watchonly patch and patch to my bitcoind? i dont want to download separate bitcoind and run separately
1297 2014-03-30 18:56:29 <sipa> sigh
1298 2014-03-30 18:56:35 <sipa> you don't need to run anything extra
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1301 2014-03-30 18:56:58 <sipa> but you'll have to build your own bitcoind from source with that patch
1302 2014-03-30 18:57:04 <sipa> and it is less reliable
1303 2014-03-30 18:57:11 <sipa> or potentially buggy
1304 2014-03-30 18:57:17 <sipa> as it's not that well tested as full releases
1305 2014-03-30 18:57:34 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Luke-Jr: In which case, why bother with gbuilds?
1306 2014-03-30 18:57:55 <Alina-malina> i can make the check with txid and see the balance it is working ok for me, but it is not userfriendly stuff you know
1307 2014-03-30 18:58:24 <Luke-Jr> michagogo|cloud: more likely to get testing? I'm not sure it's worth the effort if it isn't easy.
1308 2014-03-30 18:59:02 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Luke-Jr: Is the only purpose of gbuilds not to allow people to verify binaries given to them?
1309 2014-03-30 18:59:13 <sipa> Alina-malina: you don't need to check txids
1310 2014-03-30 18:59:23 <Luke-Jr> michagogo|cloud: also makes Windows binaries :D
1311 2014-03-30 18:59:25 <Alina-malina> sipa, then how to make sure that sender sent the btc on that address?
1312 2014-03-30 18:59:30 <Alina-malina> i mean multisig address
1313 2014-03-30 18:59:38 <sipa> Alina-malina: listreceivedbyaddress
1314 2014-03-30 18:59:55 <Alina-malina> and multisig addr?
1315 2014-03-30 19:00:04 <sipa> if you use watchonly, same thing
1316 2014-03-30 19:00:08 <sipa> if you don't, won't work
1317 2014-03-30 19:00:08 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Luke-Jr: That can be done without gitian
1318 2014-03-30 19:00:14 * michagogo cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|has done it
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1320 2014-03-30 19:00:24 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|(by ripping the scripts out of the descriptors)
1321 2014-03-30 19:00:26 <Alina-malina> sipa, you are confusing me, please bare with me
1322 2014-03-30 19:00:44 <sipa> Alina-malina: i can't explain you how everything in bitcoind works
1323 2014-03-30 19:01:07 <sipa> Alina-malina: watchonly is a patch to bitcoind that allows its wallet to track transactions to any address, including those you don't have keys for - including p2sh
1324 2014-03-30 19:01:17 <sipa> Alina-malina: apart from that, it works exactly like any other bitcoind wallet
1325 2014-03-30 19:01:31 <sipa> Alina-malina: and there is no need to check individual txids in most cases
1326 2014-03-30 19:01:39 <sipa> just check that the address received the funds you expected on them
1327 2014-03-30 19:01:43 <Alina-malina> sipa, yes but you said it is buggy and etc?
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1330 2014-03-30 19:01:52 <sipa> Alina-malina: no, just not well tested
1331 2014-03-30 19:01:57 <Luke-Jr> michagogo|cloud: it can be, but more effort/work/risks
1332 2014-03-30 19:02:12 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|More effort?
1333 2014-03-30 19:02:14 <Alina-malina> sipa, so it is not possible just to compile that patch against my bitcoind only?
1334 2014-03-30 19:02:17 * michagogo cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|somewhat disagrees
1335 2014-03-30 19:02:19 <Luke-Jr> michagogo|cloud: IMO easier to just run gitian in the background and go work on something else
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1337 2014-03-30 19:02:28 <sipa> Alina-malina: of course that is possible, it's what i'm telling you to do
1338 2014-03-30 19:02:34 <sipa> Alina-malina: just don't rely on it for production
1339 2014-03-30 19:02:38 <Alina-malina> oh
1340 2014-03-30 19:02:53 <sipa> Alina-malina: testing is very welcome
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1343 2014-03-30 19:03:26 <Alina-malina> sipa, so how to make that check reliably in production with the bitcoind for checking multisig?
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1345 2014-03-30 19:03:34 <sipa> Alina-malina: you don't
1346 2014-03-30 19:03:36 <Alina-malina> withouht patch or anything else
1347 2014-03-30 19:03:45 <sipa> Alina-malina: use other software, write something yourself, dunno
1348 2014-03-30 19:03:56 <sipa> Alina-malina: there are just no good solutions for that right now with bitcoind
1349 2014-03-30 19:04:05 <Alina-malina> sipa, so txid checking may not be reilable as well?
1350 2014-03-30 19:04:11 <sipa> Alina-malina: what txid would you check?
1351 2014-03-30 19:04:20 <sipa> Alina-malina: you don't know which to look at
1352 2014-03-30 19:04:36 <Alina-malina> the one that the sender sent on multisig only
1353 2014-03-30 19:04:45 <sipa> how do you know that txid?
1354 2014-03-30 19:05:23 <Alina-malina> sipa, with sendtoaddress in return i get the txid
1355 2014-03-30 19:05:33 <sipa> Alina-malina: wait... you're the sender?
1356 2014-03-30 19:05:37 <sipa> Alina-malina: not the receiver?
1357 2014-03-30 19:05:46 <sipa> for the sender it doesn't matter at all
1358 2014-03-30 19:05:53 <sipa> he doesn't care about what kind of address the receiver uses
1359 2014-03-30 19:06:04 <Alina-malina> sipa, well i assume that sender will share that txid with receiver so the other could make a check
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1361 2014-03-30 19:06:17 <sipa> Alina-malina: that is unreliable because of malleability
1362 2014-03-30 19:06:21 <sipa> the txid could change
1363 2014-03-30 19:06:32 <sipa> and it's not scalable
1364 2014-03-30 19:06:43 <sipa> (it requires the receiver to track every single tx)
1365 2014-03-30 19:06:47 <Alina-malina> yes
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1368 2014-03-30 19:07:10 <sipa> Alina-malina: i'm done explaining this now
1369 2014-03-30 19:07:15 <Alina-malina> sipa, grrrr
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1372 2014-03-30 19:07:39 <Alina-malina> sp this multisig is not in production as far as i can understand?
1373 2014-03-30 19:07:43 <Luke-Jr> sipa has had a lot of patience, don't grrrr at him :P
1374 2014-03-30 19:07:57 <Alina-malina> Luke-Jr, ok lets try you now
1375 2014-03-30 19:07:59 <Luke-Jr> no
1376 2014-03-30 19:08:03 <sipa> Alina-malina: there are no good p2sh wallet solution with bitcoind right now
1377 2014-03-30 19:08:03 <Luke-Jr> I gave up on you like 15 minutes ago
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1379 2014-03-30 19:08:17 <Alina-malina> hmmm
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1381 2014-03-30 19:08:19 <sipa> Alina-malina: some other software may support it, and soon things may change
1382 2014-03-30 19:08:20 shesek has joined
1383 2014-03-30 19:08:25 <sipa> but we're all volunteers working on this
1384 2014-03-30 19:08:32 <sipa> please don't demand that things just work
1385 2014-03-30 19:08:54 <Luke-Jr> Alina-malina: if you have a business model that requires multisig, I advise hiring someone (sipa ideally) to complete it and help you use it
1386 2014-03-30 19:08:54 <Alina-malina> sipa, this txid is the only key part for making a check
1387 2014-03-30 19:09:17 <sipa> Alina-malina: you can't rely on that txid right now, unfortunately
1388 2014-03-30 19:09:25 * michagogo cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|sighs
1389 2014-03-30 19:09:26 <sipa> BIP62 may change that
1390 2014-03-30 19:09:55 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Apparently someone's created a new altcoin for Israelis, I guess inspired by the Iceland thing
1391 2014-03-30 19:10:09 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|And they think 1-minute blocks are a good idea :-/
1392 2014-03-30 19:10:29 <Alina-malina> sipa, so the txid is not contstant value?
1393 2014-03-30 19:10:38 <sipa> Alina-malina: i suggest you read up on malleability
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1396 2014-03-30 19:11:26 <bedeho> is the purpose of the bloom filter to allow you to only receive transactions you are interested in, without explicitly revealing which ones they are?
1397 2014-03-30 19:11:39 <sipa> bedeho: that, and efficiency
1398 2014-03-30 19:11:58 <sipa> bedeho: a bloom filter can very compactly represent many things you're interested in
1399 2014-03-30 19:12:04 <sipa> and very efficiently check against them
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1402 2014-03-30 19:12:20 <Alina-malina> sipa, there are other procedures being done after recieving the txid you know, eventually those procedures will lead to that multisig address balance, if after 6 confirmations there is no btc on that balance the system will just ignore that multisig
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1408 2014-03-30 19:24:54 <bedeho> sipa: but as far as privacy, any peer which is providing you information based on a bloom filter can still know with 80-90% certainty that any message he/she sends is one you are interested in? so the privacy is really a side issue then? in particular if multiple nodes connect to you and cross check their filters?
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1411 2014-03-30 19:25:50 <bedeho> the main point is that it compactly represents multiple transactions?
1412 2014-03-30 19:26:11 <sipa> bedeho: yu
1413 2014-03-30 19:26:13 <sipa> bedeho: yup
1414 2014-03-30 19:26:29 <bedeho> ok thanks
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1416 2014-03-30 19:27:26 <davec> sipa: I was looking back through history in regards to the version message and how protocol versions affected it and noticed that in your commit 18c0fa97d if nVersion >= 106 and !vRecv.empty() it reads addrFrom and nNonce, then it checks if empty again and reads strSubVer. Since they all appeared to be added in the same protocol version (106) shouldn't either all three be read at the same time or there be a check for each field? I rea
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1418 2014-03-30 19:28:06 <sipa> I rea[...]
1419 2014-03-30 19:28:22 <davec> I realize that is
1420 2014-03-30 19:28:22 <davec> ancient history, but the same code still exists today and the implication is if the buffer is not empty after the
1421 2014-03-30 19:28:25 <davec> addrMe field, the addrFrom and nonce must be present, but not the strSubVer (or anything after it
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1423 2014-03-30 19:29:12 <davec> the reason I'm asking is this code tecnically defines the protocol and the optinality here is important to be compatible
1424 2014-03-30 19:29:14 <sipa> after it[...]
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1426 2014-03-30 19:29:25 <sipa> davec: the oldest supported protocol version is 209 iirc now
1427 2014-03-30 19:29:40 <davec> agreed there is a check for 209
1428 2014-03-30 19:29:47 <davec> but what I'm getting at is
1429 2014-03-30 19:29:55 <davec> if (!vRecv.empty())
1430 2014-03-30 19:29:55 <davec> vRecv >> addrFrom >> nNonce;
1431 2014-03-30 19:29:56 <davec> if (!vRecv.empty()) {
1432 2014-03-30 19:29:58 <davec> vRecv >> pfrom->strSubVer;
1433 2014-03-30 19:30:01 <sipa> you're probably right that each field should be individually checked for
1434 2014-03-30 19:30:27 <davec> so that means that both addrFrom and nNonce must be present if the buffer is not empty after addrMe
1435 2014-03-30 19:30:36 <sipa> yeah, i see what you're saying
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1439 2014-03-30 19:32:39 <Alina-malina> sipa, what you mean when you say that BIP62 may change the tx id? relying on what?
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1452 2014-03-30 19:52:29 <oleganza> hey guys, recently I've seen a discussion on github about computing fee for sending a transaction. Can't find it now. Can someone point me to it?
1453 2014-03-30 19:52:44 <oleganza> I think sipa was participating there.
1454 2014-03-30 19:52:53 <oleganza> it was either in bitcoin/bitcoin or bitcoin/bips
1455 2014-03-30 19:53:51 <oleganza> or in IRC?..
1456 2014-03-30 19:54:33 <oleganza> sipa proposed slight refactoring to compute fees based on tx size in bytes (or something like that)
1457 2014-03-30 19:55:00 <sipa> hmm? me?
1458 2014-03-30 19:55:06 <oleganza> i think so...
1459 2014-03-30 19:55:21 <oleganza> or maybe petertodd.
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1462 2014-03-30 19:56:07 <oleganza> i want to check that because for my own wallet I face a problem "how one finds all unspent outputs before knowing the fee and how one finds the fee before knowing all outputs"
1463 2014-03-30 19:56:19 <oleganza> what's the good read on this issue?
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1465 2014-03-30 19:56:55 <davec> sipa: created a pr #3982 in regards to that
1466 2014-03-30 19:58:55 <gmaxwell> oleganza: fee finding is a linear program... it can be a bit tricky, though you can simply run the selection for each possible number of inputs and then know the fees in advance.
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1534 2014-03-30 21:07:43 <hexatron> i tried to base58 decode this address: "1AwgPR37CMjqfHKjLMXmGjEp8wR8ZaizBV" with the class found in bitcoinj.
1535 2014-03-30 21:07:50 <hexatron> my understanding is that it should decode to something like 00 + 20bytehash + checksum.
1536 2014-03-30 21:08:18 <hexatron> but i'm gettings somethign with negative numbers: 010916120-34-80942101114-798105123-503227-92-9975110-85-117122-100
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1541 2014-03-30 21:12:02 <_alp_> I am unable to connect to rpc when using regtest, should that be possible?
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1600 2014-03-30 22:03:25 <davec> hexatron: I get 006d1078deb0092a6572b108697bce201ba49d4b6eab8b7a9c with Base58Decode from github.com/conformal/btcutil, so I'd agree something doesn't look right with what you pasted
1601 2014-03-30 22:04:58 <sipa> my guess: java's signed char
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1603 2014-03-30 22:05:09 <ysangkok> davec: the problem was solved in #bitcoin
1604 2014-03-30 22:05:14 <ysangkok> sipa: ^^
1605 2014-03-30 22:05:23 <sipa> good
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1607 2014-03-30 22:05:46 <davec> great thanks
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1635 2014-03-30 22:33:35 <bedeho> sipa: the filterload message does not provide the size of the filter being sent? Is it always the maximum size of 36000 bytes?
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1637 2014-03-30 22:34:10 <sipa> yes it does
1638 2014-03-30 22:34:11 <sipa> ?
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1642 2014-03-30 22:36:37 <bedeho> the bip just says the first field is "filter", which is uint8_t[] of unspecified length? maybe Im missing something
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1644 2014-03-30 22:36:56 <sipa> heh
1645 2014-03-30 22:37:01 <sipa> it needs a varint length
1646 2014-03-30 22:37:08 <sipa> it's there in practice
1647 2014-03-30 22:37:37 <bedeho> hehe,ok, so that also applies to the data field in filteradd I assume?
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1685 2014-03-30 23:35:26 <Genitrust> does anyone here know how to properly create a bootstrap.dat ?
1686 2014-03-30 23:35:38 <Genitrust> i just want to verify that i did it correctly with "cat block*.dat > bootstrap.dat"
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1688 2014-03-30 23:36:30 <lianj> Genitrust: that would work but it will also include sidechain blocks
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1690 2014-03-30 23:38:44 <sipa> Genitrust: it will be slightly larger than necessary, but it will work
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1695 2014-03-30 23:41:32 <Genitrust> sipa, ah really?
1696 2014-03-30 23:41:37 <Genitrust> lianj, also thank you for your response
1697 2014-03-30 23:41:50 <Genitrust> when i start bitcoind i get the error "Incorrect or no genesis block found. Wrong datadir for network?"
1698 2014-03-30 23:41:57 <Genitrust> maybe the problem is with my bitcoin.conf ...
1699 2014-03-30 23:42:21 <sipa> i doubt that
1700 2014-03-30 23:42:27 <sipa> seems more like datanase corruptiom
1701 2014-03-30 23:43:05 <sipa> unless you're pointing it at a testnet datadir without specifying testnet, of course
1702 2014-03-30 23:43:26 <Genitrust> i grabbed the example bitcoin.conf from the site
1703 2014-03-30 23:43:33 <Genitrust> and now i notice that the entire thing is commented out... -.-
1704 2014-03-30 23:43:43 <Genitrust> i looked at it before but srsly didn't notice the comments lol
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1709 2014-03-30 23:45:29 * Genitrust will sha1sum the bootstrap file...
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1719 2014-03-30 23:55:22 <sipa> Genitrust: no point
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1723 2014-03-30 23:58:10 <Genitrust> sipa any idea why i'm being told "Incorrect or no genesis block found. wrong datadir for network" ?
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