1 2014-04-09 00:00:30 papa3 has joined
2 2014-04-09 00:00:36 <aschildbach_> Is there any security advisory about heartbleed planned on bitcoin.org/en/alerts?
3 2014-04-09 00:01:35 <gmaxwell> I don't have information at this time that makes me believe we should make an alert over this.
4 2014-04-09 00:02:18 <aschildbach_> Hmm at least 0.9.0 is vulnerable?
5 2014-04-09 00:02:29 <aschildbach_> And users should upgrade, no?
6 2014-04-09 00:03:25 <theymos> Did anyone figure out how much data can be stolen when Bitcoin acts as a TLS client?
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9 2014-04-09 00:04:06 <gmaxwell> aschildbach_: There are two areas that we use SSL in Bitcoin core. One is RPC ssl which is off by default and a PITA to turn on, not widely used, and also blocked from public access by default. When acting as an RPC server, I tested extensively, and we leak only the prior rpc request and then 64k of zero bytes.
10 2014-04-09 00:04:37 <gmaxwell> As an RPC client I don't have any way to test, though the exposure there could be at most leaking your client cert if you connected to a malicious server.
11 2014-04-09 00:04:51 <Mqrius> Any word on when the launchpad bitcoin ppa is gonna update to 0.9.1? It's still at 0.9.0
12 2014-04-09 00:05:07 <aschildbach_> I'm more concerned about the PP
13 2014-04-09 00:05:33 <aschildbach_> Because all you need is click the "wrong" link.
14 2014-04-09 00:05:34 <gmaxwell> The other is the payment protocol, and like the rpc client I don't currently have a way to test. In general, both due to heap layout and the fact that the secure allocator zeroize lower my concern somewhat. But until I get an exploit working as a server I'm unsure.
15 2014-04-09 00:06:09 <theymos> It may be best to issue an alert for 0.9.0 just in case.
16 2014-04-09 00:06:27 <gmaxwell> Perhaps. It's certantly good to upgrade just in case.
17 2014-04-09 00:06:33 <Mqrius> Does armory use an rpc link with bitcoind?
18 2014-04-09 00:06:46 <Mqrius> (rpcssl, specifically)
19 2014-04-09 00:06:46 <aschildbach_> The transaction malleability also has no exploit possibility and it still got an alert.
20 2014-04-09 00:07:06 <gmaxwell> No it didn't.
21 2014-04-09 00:07:11 <aschildbach_> (Actually it not even got a release)
22 2014-04-09 00:07:16 <aschildbach_> It did.
23 2014-04-09 00:07:22 <aschildbach_> https://bitcoin.org/en/alert/2014-02-11-malleability
24 2014-04-09 00:07:33 <dexX7> it appears the complete ssl traffic can be sniffed. this is not a bitcoin issue, but "huge"
25 2014-04-09 00:07:56 <sipa> aschildbach_: was that an alert?
26 2014-04-09 00:08:06 <gmaxwell> There was no alert sent on the network. It looks like someone made a page on bitcoin.org to answer questions.
27 2014-04-09 00:08:08 <aschildbach_> Well the page says "alert".
28 2014-04-09 00:08:29 <sipa> aschildbach_: i can't recall, and i can't see why - there was no need to ask people to upgrade as nobody but themselves were ever affected
29 2014-04-09 00:08:30 <aschildbach_> I'm not talking about the P2P alert system.
30 2014-04-09 00:08:34 <sipa> oh ok
31 2014-04-09 00:08:41 <aschildbach_> I'm talking about the web page.
32 2014-04-09 00:08:41 <warren> Mqrius: if the PPA is built against the system openssl then the package doesn't need a rebuild
33 2014-04-09 00:08:46 <sipa> right, ok
34 2014-04-09 00:08:56 <gmaxwell> what a confusing thing.
35 2014-04-09 00:09:04 <Mqrius> warren: I have no idea if it is.
36 2014-04-09 00:09:11 <sipa> well, some page like that certainly seems appropriate
37 2014-04-09 00:09:24 <sipa> but a p2p doesn't, for thr same reason
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39 2014-04-09 00:09:52 <gmaxwell> sure, though I don't think we actually know the degree of impact at this time, so that makes it a bit harder. For some reason I can't get the SSL server handshake to work right. :-/
40 2014-04-09 00:10:48 ericmuyser has joined
41 2014-04-09 00:10:58 <sipa> just an update "in which way does the heartbleed openssl bug affect bitcoin", and list cases in which you're certainly not affected etc
42 2014-04-09 00:11:24 <sipa> i'm sure many people are worried
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44 2014-04-09 00:12:04 <gmaxwell> yea, I've seen a lot of bad information going around, like people telling people they need to move their funds to new addresses and other stuff that probably isn't needed and will not help for subtle reasons.
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46 2014-04-09 00:13:19 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: you've confirmed that no Qt/SSL release will leak ECDSA priv keys when fetching a payment request?
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48 2014-04-09 00:14:04 <gmaxwell> Luke-Jr: No, I don't have a way to confirm that yet. I've only been able to test the RPC. I believe it's _unlikely_ but I'm not sure all of what QT is doing.
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50 2014-04-09 00:14:33 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: when in doubt, my advice is to be safe :P
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52 2014-04-09 00:14:48 <gmaxwell> Otherwise I wouldn't also suggest people upgrade. I think upgrading is prudent. I misunderstood aschildbach_ as saying we should send a network alert.
53 2014-04-09 00:15:00 <gmaxwell> and I'm less convinced that would be a good idea.
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55 2014-04-09 00:15:32 <Luke-Jr> if there's a *chance* of ECDSA key leakage, I think it's prudent to warn people not to use PP in 0.9.0 and if they have make a new wallet..
56 2014-04-09 00:15:35 <theymos> Why? The alert won't be so burdensome if targeted only to 0.9.0.
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58 2014-04-09 00:16:36 <gmaxwell> theymos: it's not only applicable to 0.9.0 though, it's applicable to things linked with that version of the openssl... oh hm. because the payment protocol.
59 2014-04-09 00:16:59 <warren> Mqrius: find the bitcoin-qt binary, run ldd, pastebin the output
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61 2014-04-09 00:17:48 <theymos> The RPC stuff is pretty minor, but if 0.9.0 can be attacked via PP, then that's extremely severe. Even if it's unlikely, I think that an alert is prudent.
62 2014-04-09 00:18:16 <gmaxwell> theymos: OK. We don't know if it can be attacked via the PP, it's a possibility.
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65 2014-04-09 00:19:05 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: if there's a chance of a major problem like that, people should be alerted. they can always ignore it or upgrade to 0.9.1..
66 2014-04-09 00:19:13 <wildpaavo> where do i report a massive bitcoin vulnerability?
67 2014-04-09 00:19:30 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: it's impossible to rule out the chance, either, given the wide variety of Qt versions that could be in use
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69 2014-04-09 00:19:48 <Luke-Jr> wildpaavo: bitcoin-security@lists.sourceforge.net
70 2014-04-09 00:20:04 <Mqrius> With the attack, can it read arbitrary memory, or only memory related to the SSL session? If the former, can't it have any data, such as ecdsa keys, if they were in memory at the time?
71 2014-04-09 00:20:28 <Luke-Jr> Mqrius: memory from the same process, but not of the attacker's choice (I think)
72 2014-04-09 00:20:36 <gmaxwell> Mqrius: it can read the first 64kbytes on the heap _after_ the openssl allocation for the heartbeat data.
73 2014-04-09 00:20:54 <gmaxwell> not data before or further away or... etc.
74 2014-04-09 00:20:56 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: the Heartbleed thing said > 64 kB was possible?
75 2014-04-09 00:21:13 <Luke-Jr> "There is no total of 64 kilobytes limitation to the attack, that limit applies only to a single heartbeat. Attacker can either keep reconnecting or during an active TLS connection keep requesting arbitrary number of 64 kilobyte chunks of memory content until enough secrets are revealed."
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77 2014-04-09 00:21:28 <gmaxwell> Thats misleading.
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79 2014-04-09 00:21:46 <Luke-Jr> I guess it's always 64 kB after the allocation, and the allocation may be different each time?
80 2014-04-09 00:21:54 lnovy has joined
81 2014-04-09 00:22:00 <gmaxwell> It reads 64k after the allocation, you can try again and maybe the allocation shows up someplace else and lets you read something else, but it's always the 64k after the allocation.
82 2014-04-09 00:22:05 <gmaxwell> Right.
83 2014-04-09 00:22:31 <gmaxwell> (which was why when I tested the rpc I started up 5 attacks concurrently while calling a bunch of rpcs to make sure I always got the same result)
84 2014-04-09 00:22:37 agricocb has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
85 2014-04-09 00:22:38 <Luke-Jr> anyhow, I still think it's impossible to rule out a major problem with PP
86 2014-04-09 00:22:48 <gmaxwell> this isn't to say something weird might happen in some other case, so it's good to upgrade but my confidence is fairly high on the rpc.
87 2014-04-09 00:22:53 impulse has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
88 2014-04-09 00:23:05 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: for RPC, did you try different compilers and optimisation flags? :P
89 2014-04-09 00:23:28 <Luke-Jr> although heap probably wouldn't change much
90 2014-04-09 00:23:43 <Luke-Jr> since that's libc more than the compiler probably
91 2014-04-09 00:23:44 <aschildbach_> fyi. I just updated Bitcoin Wallet so it doesn't do any HTTP(S) on Android 4.1.1. -- until we get a better fix. Want to stay on the safe side.
92 2014-04-09 00:23:46 teward has joined
93 2014-04-09 00:23:48 <gmaxwell> Luke-Jr: nont our problem.
94 2014-04-09 00:24:18 <gmaxwell> Luke-Jr: I mean we only ship openssl in our own binaries, otherwise it depends on the system.
95 2014-04-09 00:24:19 <Luke-Jr> aschildbach_: kinda makes PP useless? :x
96 2014-04-09 00:24:34 <aschildbach_> Luke-Jr: furtunately we still have the fallback
97 2014-04-09 00:24:41 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: fair enough
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99 2014-04-09 00:25:23 <aschildbach_> Luke-Jr: and probably will have that for several decades. HTTP/TCP is not reliable anyway.
100 2014-04-09 00:25:40 <gmaxwell> FWIW, I tested the 0.9.1 binary and confirm it doesn't respond to the misformed heartbeat messages.
101 2014-04-09 00:26:12 jakov has quit (Quit: Leaving)
102 2014-04-09 00:26:26 <gmaxwell> If I thought the payment protocol was not going to allow for the reliable collection of refund addresses I would have opposed its inclusion in Bitcoin Core. I think thats really unfortunate.
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104 2014-04-09 00:26:51 <gmaxwell> aschildbach_: don't you still make https connections out to get the payment requests?
105 2014-04-09 00:27:05 <aschildbach_> gmaxwell: no
106 2014-04-09 00:27:17 <aschildbach_> (only on Android 4.1.1, of course)
107 2014-04-09 00:28:13 <gmaxwell> aschildbach_: how do you get the payment request in the first place then?
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109 2014-04-09 00:29:06 <aschildbach_> gmaxwell: How do you mean? BIP21 PR I get via URL
110 2014-04-09 00:29:19 <aschildbach_> gmaxwell: QR or NFC or Link.
111 2014-04-09 00:29:34 <gmaxwell> aschildbach_: right so how is getting it via URL not resulting in making a connection?
112 2014-04-09 00:30:03 <Mqrius> Practically, do I need to change my passwords and 2-factor keys everywhere? Or just delete my cookies?
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116 2014-04-09 00:31:27 <xtheloniousx> Hey, I'm trying to cross compile bitcoin on linux using mingw
117 2014-04-09 00:31:54 Guest37818 has joined
118 2014-04-09 00:31:59 <xtheloniousx> I wasn't able to find a single solid guide that works
119 2014-04-09 00:32:11 <xtheloniousx> I'm running into issues cross compiling berkeley db
120 2014-04-09 00:32:21 <aschildbach_> gmaxwell: It just doesn't do the connection.
121 2014-04-09 00:33:15 JZavala has joined
122 2014-04-09 00:33:17 <gmaxwell> xtheloniousx: if you want to cross compile you should setup to gitian build. Those instructions work. :)
123 2014-04-09 00:33:29 <xtheloniousx> oh ok
124 2014-04-09 00:33:34 <aschildbach_> gmaxwell: Its like if the r= parameter wasn't present.
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127 2014-04-09 00:34:07 <xtheloniousx> thanks :) Yeah I've been spending the last couple of hours hacking libraries that I'm sure work out the box
128 2014-04-09 00:34:08 <gmaxwell> oh I see, so payment protocol is not working over the web at all on android wallet right now with your changes. Gotcha.
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133 2014-04-09 00:34:57 <aschildbach_> gmaxwell: ?
134 2014-04-09 00:35:20 <aschildbach_> gmaxwell: at all? Again, its only 4.1.1
135 2014-04-09 00:35:40 <gmaxwell> Okay, I missed that constraint. Gotcha.
136 2014-04-09 00:35:42 <aschildbach_> gmaxwell: Also, the payment protocol has this fallback via BIP72 to BIP21.
137 2014-04-09 00:35:52 <aschildbach_> gmaxwell: And BIP21 works as expected.
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144 2014-04-09 00:39:29 <aschildbach_> FWIW: I just calculated the change will affect 4.03% of the active users.
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147 2014-04-09 00:41:05 <gmaxwell> ::nods:: I misunderstood initially. I thought you were saying that it still recieved the payment request but then didn't send a response, and I missedâ initiallyâ that it was limited to android 4.1.1.
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152 2014-04-09 00:48:11 <midnightmagic> huh. that's interesting. my gitian build doesn't match. must've done something wrong..
153 2014-04-09 00:48:55 <aschildbach_> midnightmagic: did you re-build the dependencies?
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157 2014-04-09 00:49:09 <midnightmagic> aschildbach_: I'm about to rebuild everything from scratch now.
158 2014-04-09 00:49:45 <aschildbach_> midnightmagic: openssl obviously has changed and the -qt dependency too (probably transitively)
159 2014-04-09 00:50:04 <aschildbach_> good nite everyone!
160 2014-04-09 00:50:08 <midnightmagic> night
161 2014-04-09 00:50:13 <fanquake> morning
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165 2014-04-09 00:55:21 <Mqrius> warren: pastebin.com/VxiEb20a it says openssl version 1.0.0. Also, my system says I'm running 1.0.1e, but it can't find any updates. I don't think I have it open to the outside world though, I'd think armory just needs localhost.
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168 2014-04-09 00:56:36 <gmaxwell> Mqrius: you have to work to turn on rpc to the outside world, and you have to work more to enable rpcssl.
169 2014-04-09 00:57:13 <gmaxwell> to exposure yourself on the rpc side you need to add rpcallowip=* and rpcssl=1 and you have to generate a ssl certificate.
170 2014-04-09 00:57:55 <Mqrius> I didn't do anything for that, so it should still be default then. Alright, I guess armory is safe. The next step is to change my passwords on all the exchanges I suppose.
171 2014-04-09 00:58:54 rnvk has joined
172 2014-04-09 00:59:35 <Mqrius> ...and 2-factor keys? Or will they never be in the heap?
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176 2014-04-09 01:05:03 <gmaxwell> Mqrius: I'm not sure if its in the release version yet, but I know the latest armory stuff constantly phones home (and to AWS) to check for updates. So that could be exposed if your SSL is unpached.
177 2014-04-09 01:06:36 <Mqrius> gmaxwell: Alright. Any idea why it doesn't update openssl when I apt-get upgrade and apt-get update? Is the new version not in the stable branch yet?
178 2014-04-09 01:06:43 <Mqrius> (ubuntu 13.10)
179 2014-04-09 01:07:10 <warren> did they patch an old version, and you're expecting 1.0.1g?
180 2014-04-09 01:07:16 <warren> Fedora/RHEL have 1.0.1e patched
181 2014-04-09 01:07:35 <Mqrius> Oh, could be.
182 2014-04-09 01:07:41 <warren> are there logs of when updates happened?
183 2014-04-09 01:08:16 <Mqrius> Yeah, lemme check
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187 2014-04-09 01:12:53 <Mqrius> It updated 8 April, 4:49 am. www.pastebin.com/gDeNK9CR
188 2014-04-09 01:13:06 <Mqrius> Seems fine then, I guess. (@ warren )
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191 2014-04-09 01:16:48 <Mqrius> "openssl version -a" also shows that it was built on the 7th of April, which is correct according to the Internet.
192 2014-04-09 01:20:08 <vetch> gmaxwell: Armory connects to a bunch of websites to see if its connection is alive and doesn't work if you block the requests. it's sort of icky really.
193 2014-04-09 01:20:34 <vetch> gmaxwell: might be false reverse DNS lookups for aws, come to think of it. I'll have to check.
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203 2014-04-09 01:25:50 <phantomcircuit> Mqrius, the patched version is still 1.0.1e
204 2014-04-09 01:26:09 <phantomcircuit> the latest verion in ubuntu is 1.0.1e-3ubuntu1.2
205 2014-04-09 01:26:12 <phantomcircuit> version*
206 2014-04-09 01:27:57 <Mqrius> phantomcircuit: Yeah, looks like I'm good then :) thanks
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223 2014-04-09 01:53:36 <warren> wumpus: http://miniupnp.free.fr/files/changelog.php?file=miniupnpc-1.9.20140401.tar.gz
224 2014-04-09 01:53:44 <warren> 2013/10/07:
225 2014-04-09 01:53:44 <warren> fixed potential buffer overrun in miniwget.c
226 2014-04-09 01:53:44 <warren> Modified UPNP_GetValidIGD() to check for ExternalIpAddress
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237 2014-04-09 02:11:30 <gmaxwell> so, I'm looking at the miniupnpc 1.6 source.
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241 2014-04-09 02:13:02 <gmaxwell> and It looks like the only consequence of it is a read-past-the-end-of-a-stack-allocated-buffer. A second opinion would be nice.
242 2014-04-09 02:13:39 <coryfields> gmaxwell: 1.6 is what we ship?
243 2014-04-09 02:13:51 <warren> we ship 1.8
244 2014-04-09 02:13:59 <gmaxwell> I think so? I'm not sure. (thats partly why I mentioned it). Ah. someone should update our docs.
245 2014-04-09 02:14:05 <coryfields> ok
246 2014-04-09 02:14:08 <warren> URL?
247 2014-04-09 02:14:15 <coryfields> yea, i was just poking through the 1.8 i had laying around
248 2014-04-09 02:14:21 <coryfields> guess that's why it's laying around...
249 2014-04-09 02:14:54 <warren> None of the distros appear to be shipping 1.9 yet.
250 2014-04-09 02:15:06 <coryfields> gmaxwell: where were you looking? 1.8 code doesn't have UPNP_GetValidIGD in miniwget.c
251 2014-04-09 02:15:33 <gmaxwell> UPNP_GetValidIGD is just how miniwget gets called
252 2014-04-09 02:16:33 <gmaxwell> the bug is the while loop around line 160 of miniwget.c
253 2014-04-09 02:16:34 <coryfields> ok, assumed as much, just didn't want to chase ghosts if i was on the other end of a code shuffle
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255 2014-04-09 02:17:06 <gmaxwell> s/stack/heap/
256 2014-04-09 02:17:13 <gmaxwell> while(header_buf[i]=='\r' || header_buf[i] == '\n')i++; < bug
257 2014-04-09 02:18:15 <warren> https://github.com/miniupnp/miniupnp/commit/3a87aa2f10bd7f1408e1849bdb59c41dd63a9fe9
258 2014-04-09 02:18:44 <gmaxwell> oh good, you found the actual commit. :P
259 2014-04-09 02:20:02 t2che has joined
260 2014-04-09 02:20:11 <todam00n> is the order of txins inside a transaction ever important?
261 2014-04-09 02:20:19 kikkerdril has joined
262 2014-04-09 02:20:27 <todam00n> for signing for example
263 2014-04-09 02:21:25 tsche has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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265 2014-04-09 02:23:45 <coryfields> gmaxwell: at first glance, i agree
266 2014-04-09 02:24:03 <coryfields> i don't see any glaring side-effects outside that loop
267 2014-04-09 02:24:29 Gyps has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
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270 2014-04-09 02:27:17 <coryfields> hmm, getting i to overflow to -max_int could get interesting though
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284 2014-04-09 02:36:10 <warren> gmaxwell: what document says 1.6?
285 2014-04-09 02:38:26 Anon__ is now known as kankles
286 2014-04-09 02:38:31 <kankles> whats going on on testnet?
287 2014-04-09 02:38:32 HaltingState has joined
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289 2014-04-09 02:38:32 HaltingState has joined
290 2014-04-09 02:38:39 <kankles> the blocks are being mined like every second
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301 2014-04-09 02:53:32 <warren> coryfields: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/4025
302 2014-04-09 02:54:23 <coryfields> warren: i saw. will chime in tomorrow. locked out of github atm.
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306 2014-04-09 02:56:15 <phantomcircuit> warren, i fail to see how any of those changes improve the existing code
307 2014-04-09 02:56:36 <warren> phantomcircuit: I didn't imply it did, just was making sure cory was aware of it
308 2014-04-09 03:01:17 <coryfields> heh
309 2014-04-09 03:01:32 <coryfields> phantomcircuit == patrick?
310 2014-04-09 03:01:40 <phantomcircuit> yes
311 2014-04-09 03:01:57 <phantomcircuit> if anything we should be going backwards so that debian stable works again...
312 2014-04-09 03:02:05 <phantomcircuit> but that makes building windows binaries annoying
313 2014-04-09 03:02:08 <coryfields> dammit, now i might have to go dig out that phone so i can login and fight :p
314 2014-04-09 03:03:01 <phantomcircuit> coryfields, for or against?
315 2014-04-09 03:03:03 Gnaf has joined
316 2014-04-09 03:03:05 <warren> phantomcircuit: https://github.com/theuni/bitcoin/commits/libc-compat
317 2014-04-09 03:03:22 Aido_ has joined
318 2014-04-09 03:03:43 <coryfields> phantomcircuit: depends. I'm building with 4.8 now and checking the libc symbols... so i don't look like an ass if you're right :)
319 2014-04-09 03:04:36 <warren> phantomcircuit: people here felt it was important enough to have the same VM's for gitian linux and windows builds that it broke glibc < 2.15 compat in 0.9.0. 0.9.1 ships static linked glibc/libstdc++ which works on those older distros. This allows a dynamic linked glibc to work.
320 2014-04-09 03:04:54 <phantomcircuit> warren, ah
321 2014-04-09 03:05:11 <warren> the benefit of dynamic linked glibc is ASLR works
322 2014-04-09 03:05:12 Guest83843 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
323 2014-04-09 03:05:21 <warren> previous gitian linux builds didn't have it
324 2014-04-09 03:05:35 Aido has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
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326 2014-04-09 03:06:06 <coryfields> phantomcircuit: I ask that if you're going to throw around "no sane distros" etc, you at least have a metric for determining what's too new vs. what support is missing
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348 2014-04-09 03:14:57 <coryfields> phantomcircuit: gcc 4.8 didn't produce any new glibc dependencies...
349 2014-04-09 03:15:01 <coryfields> no surprise there, though
350 2014-04-09 03:15:25 <coryfields> bumping the build distro is what causes those problems
351 2014-04-09 03:15:25 Belkaar has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
352 2014-04-09 03:15:41 <phantomcircuit> coryfields, tbh the problem i think is more likely is someone using something that only works in gcc 4.8
353 2014-04-09 03:16:11 <coryfields> phantomcircuit: sure. if you want to argue feature support, that's valid
354 2014-04-09 03:16:16 <coryfields> just pick an argument :p
355 2014-04-09 03:16:22 espringe has joined
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360 2014-04-09 03:18:27 <coryfields> from what i've seen while diving pretty deep into c++11 (it's hard to go back after), gcc 4.8/clang 3.4 have built everything i've thrown at em
361 2014-04-09 03:18:55 <coryfields> enough to call it "good enough" imo. iirc gcc is still missing a few minor features
362 2014-04-09 03:19:00 blitzlightnin has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
363 2014-04-09 03:19:59 <coryfields> so that'd be my personal line in the sand. If the argument is that 4.8/3.4 aren't ubiquitous enough, that'd be a good discussion to have
364 2014-04-09 03:20:03 <phantomcircuit> coryfields, gcc 4.8 is not even available in debian stable
365 2014-04-09 03:20:13 cwage has joined
366 2014-04-09 03:20:16 <phantomcircuit> 4.7 isn't even the default
367 2014-04-09 03:20:18 kdomanski has joined
368 2014-04-09 03:20:30 <Luke-Jr> coryfields: 4.8 isn't even considered stable on Gentoo
369 2014-04-09 03:20:53 dexX7 has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
370 2014-04-09 03:21:20 <kdomanski> hey, are you talking about that C++11 thing?
371 2014-04-09 03:21:32 artursapek has quit (Quit: artursapek)
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374 2014-04-09 03:21:59 <coryfields> if those things are true, then i'd concede
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377 2014-04-09 03:22:45 <Luke-Jr> coryfields: IMO we should support at least the latest stable version of any major distro
378 2014-04-09 03:23:00 <Luke-Jr> which means RHEL 6 is going to be holding us back for a while..
379 2014-04-09 03:23:38 <kdomanski> doesn't RHEL 6 have berkeley db < 4.8 ?
380 2014-04-09 03:23:43 blitzlightnin has joined
381 2014-04-09 03:24:11 <coryfields> Luke-Jr: well user distros really don't matter in this case, just what devs build on...
382 2014-04-09 03:24:16 cwage has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
383 2014-04-09 03:24:25 <coryfields> Luke-Jr: but debian+gentoo are certainly major data points there
384 2014-04-09 03:24:44 <Luke-Jr> coryfields: they do matter.
385 2014-04-09 03:24:49 <coryfields> also, i'll admit to a heavy bias. I'm a big fan of c++11.
386 2014-04-09 03:25:04 <Luke-Jr> I don't blame anyone for wanting C++11 ;p
387 2014-04-09 03:25:25 justanotheruser has joined
388 2014-04-09 03:25:26 <coryfields> Luke-Jr: I already conceded, you don't have to keep going :)
389 2014-04-09 03:25:43 <Luke-Jr> kdomanski: you're right!
390 2014-04-09 03:25:59 * Luke-Jr wonders if that's an excuse to not support RHEL 6 (in addition to lack of ECDSA)
391 2014-04-09 03:26:02 <kdomanski> I understand Luke-Jr is against C++11 ?
392 2014-04-09 03:26:03 * coryfields un-concedes.
393 2014-04-09 03:26:06 <Luke-Jr> kdomanski: â¦
394 2014-04-09 03:26:21 <kdomanski> coryfields: Debian and Gentoo both have GCC 4.7, which compiles the C++11 changes just fine
395 2014-04-09 03:26:39 <coryfields> kdomanski: gcc can't build c++11 for crap
396 2014-04-09 03:26:44 <Luke-Jr> warren: ping, any opinions?
397 2014-04-09 03:27:14 cadaver has joined
398 2014-04-09 03:27:18 <warren> Luke-Jr: the gitian binaries need to support the long-term stable distros
399 2014-04-09 03:27:21 <kdomanski> you know what they say, "it works on my end"
400 2014-04-09 03:27:29 <coryfields> kdomanski: iirc delegating a constructor is enough to get it to ICE
401 2014-04-09 03:27:45 <warren> Luke-Jr: a newer compiler can be installed on any distro, the output can be filtered for glibc symbols
402 2014-04-09 03:27:46 <kdomanski> I see
403 2014-04-09 03:28:01 <kdomanski> btw new Ubuntu LTS is out this month
404 2014-04-09 03:28:03 <Luke-Jr> warren: so it's okay if we drop compile-on-RHEL6 support? :p
405 2014-04-09 03:28:18 <Luke-Jr> kdomanski: really?
406 2014-04-09 03:28:18 <warren> well, it already doesn't compile due to openssl
407 2014-04-09 03:28:19 da2ce7_laptop has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzzâ¦)
408 2014-04-09 03:28:39 espringe has quit (Quit: espringe)
409 2014-04-09 03:28:47 <warren> what exactly does dropping compile-on-older-distros again us?
410 2014-04-09 03:28:55 <kdomanski> Luke-Jr: are you being sarcastic?
411 2014-04-09 03:28:59 <Luke-Jr> "latest stable" != "older"
412 2014-04-09 03:29:04 <Luke-Jr> kdomanski: no
413 2014-04-09 03:29:36 <Luke-Jr> oh, 14.04 isn't released yet :o
414 2014-04-09 03:30:13 <Luke-Jr> nevermind
415 2014-04-09 03:30:15 <kdomanski> but soon, these patches aren't going to get released with new Bitcoin Core before then
416 2014-04-09 03:30:55 <warren> gain us*
417 2014-04-09 03:31:13 jonvaage has joined
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421 2014-04-09 03:32:39 <coryfields> kdomanski: http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=2v25V4V4
422 2014-04-09 03:32:45 <coryfields> ^^ enough to break 4.7
423 2014-04-09 03:33:00 <kdomanski> I see
424 2014-04-09 03:33:05 <coryfields> trying now, it fails to compile. In my real code at the time, it ICE'd
425 2014-04-09 03:33:36 TheSeven has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
426 2014-04-09 03:33:44 <kdomanski> long term OpenSuse has 4.8
427 2014-04-09 03:34:58 rdbell has joined
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429 2014-04-09 03:35:54 <Luke-Jr> seems GCC 4.7 is sufficient for everything on the current C++11 PR except std::unique_ptr
430 2014-04-09 03:35:57 <Luke-Jr> which is libstdc++
431 2014-04-09 03:36:04 <Luke-Jr> having trouble finding a version requirement on that
432 2014-04-09 03:36:06 karc has quit (Quit: leaving)
433 2014-04-09 03:36:09 <coryfields> Luke-Jr: would you agree that it's reasonable to set some criteria, then? eg. when debian/gentoo stable support a build-dep, it's clear to use
434 2014-04-09 03:36:40 <coryfields> i'm not sure that RHEL as a marker is conducive
435 2014-04-09 03:36:49 <Luke-Jr> coryfields: seems reasonable to me
436 2014-04-09 03:37:17 <Luke-Jr> when RHEL adds ECDSA support, it should be added to the requirement list
437 2014-04-09 03:37:38 Application has joined
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439 2014-04-09 03:37:54 <coryfields> makes sense imo to come up with some rough policy like ^^, rather than throwing darts every time something is suggested
440 2014-04-09 03:38:21 toffoo has quit ()
441 2014-04-09 03:39:02 Burrito has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
442 2014-04-09 03:39:22 <warren> set a sunset date for RHEL6
443 2014-04-09 03:39:55 <coryfields> how many devs build on RHEL?
444 2014-04-09 03:40:03 justanot1eruser has joined
445 2014-04-09 03:40:20 blitzlightnin has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
446 2014-04-09 03:40:25 karc has joined
447 2014-04-09 03:40:47 <coryfields> or put another way... name a dev who builds on RHEL :p
448 2014-04-09 03:40:55 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell might
449 2014-04-09 03:41:07 <warren> I run it on RHEL6 but don't build it there.
450 2014-04-09 03:41:28 <coryfields> warren: right, that's my point. build-deps and user-deps are separate discussions.
451 2014-04-09 03:41:54 <coryfields> Luke-Jr: i'm conveniently ignoring yours :)
452 2014-04-09 03:42:05 <Luke-Jr> coryfields: ?
453 2014-04-09 03:42:25 da2ce7_laptop has quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)
454 2014-04-09 03:42:36 <coryfields> your point
455 2014-04-09 03:42:37 <warren> RHEL7 might be an excellent replacement for gitian VM, 10 years of support on a distro with gcc-4.8.2
456 2014-04-09 03:42:55 da2ce7_laptop has joined
457 2014-04-09 03:43:32 <kdomanski> but it will never have C++17
458 2014-04-09 03:43:37 <kdomanski> :P
459 2014-04-09 03:43:38 <coryfields> 14 :)
460 2014-04-09 03:44:02 blitzlightnin has joined
461 2014-04-09 03:44:17 <Luke-Jr> sometimes I wish C had templates.
462 2014-04-09 03:44:19 <kdomanski> yeah, but 14 has marginal feature changes, while 17 incorporates a third of BOOST into an ISO standard
463 2014-04-09 03:44:42 <coryfields> kdomanski: 14 makes constexpr what it should've been... that's a biggie for me
464 2014-04-09 03:44:47 <Luke-Jr> kdomanski: just a third? :<
465 2014-04-09 03:45:30 <kdomanski> Luke-Jr: let me find you some detailed data...
466 2014-04-09 03:45:40 <justanotheruser> As someone who isn't a c++ master, why do people hate on boost so much?
467 2014-04-09 03:45:49 <coryfields> iirc for 14 they punted on sockets again?
468 2014-04-09 03:46:18 <warren> coryfields: why did you include -rdynamic ?
469 2014-04-09 03:46:32 <Luke-Jr> coryfields: C++14 isn't final yet, go join them and demand resolution! :P
470 2014-04-09 03:46:35 <kdomanski> nobody hates boost, dropping a library dependency is always good
471 2014-04-09 03:47:11 <coryfields> kdomanski: i hate boost with a burning passion...
472 2014-04-09 03:47:12 dgenr8 has quit (Quit: Page closed)
473 2014-04-09 03:47:27 <Luke-Jr> we could conceivably replace boost with Qt
474 2014-04-09 03:47:32 <coryfields> warren: heavy hammer for symbol exporting
475 2014-04-09 03:47:47 <warren> coryfields: to aid in debugging?
476 2014-04-09 03:47:51 <kdomanski> deploying it on some obscure arch is a pain in the ass, I'd prefer simply having a port of modern compiler/stdlib
477 2014-04-09 03:48:12 jordandotdev has joined
478 2014-04-09 03:48:25 <coryfields> kdomanski: sure, i hate it only because of deploying it. even on the most standard hardware
479 2014-04-09 03:48:30 <coryfields> well, that and the docs suck
480 2014-04-09 03:48:32 <kdomanski> Luke-Jr: Qt is an abomination to build
481 2014-04-09 03:48:36 <warren> coryfields: (what purpose)?
482 2014-04-09 03:48:46 <Luke-Jr> kdomanski: better than boost :P
483 2014-04-09 03:48:54 <coryfields> warren: no, it's necessary for runtime
484 2014-04-09 03:49:00 blitzlightnin has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
485 2014-04-09 03:49:06 <coryfields> Luke-Jr: i'd call them about equally evil
486 2014-04-09 03:49:09 Belkaar has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
487 2014-04-09 03:49:22 <Luke-Jr> oh well, that's why I use Gentoo. don't have to worry about the details. :P
488 2014-04-09 03:49:22 <kdomanski> I've used BOOST on ARM CPU within a robot, don't even get me started with Qt
489 2014-04-09 03:49:46 <Luke-Jr> I've used Bitcoin Core GUI on ARM CPU within a handheld computer <.<
490 2014-04-09 03:50:01 <Luke-Jr> Gentoo on Nokia N900 ftw
491 2014-04-09 03:50:04 <kdomanski> Luke-Jr: yeah, I always return to Gentoo when I need some serious development to be done
492 2014-04-09 03:50:14 <coryfields> kdomanski: i built osx x86 qt on linux x64. I can relate :)
493 2014-04-09 03:50:19 <coryfields> it's a nightmare.
494 2014-04-09 03:50:41 <Luke-Jr> I should make sure Bitcoin Core builds on x32..
495 2014-04-09 03:50:44 <coryfields> Luke-Jr: running on arm android here :)
496 2014-04-09 03:50:54 <Luke-Jr> coryfields: ew
497 2014-04-09 03:51:26 <coryfields> this seems to be the saddest e-penis contest ever...
498 2014-04-09 03:51:30 <kdomanski> sometimes I need to use a SPARC core without an MMU - I can use parts of BOOST there, but Qt?
499 2014-04-09 03:51:31 <Luke-Jr> lol
500 2014-04-09 03:51:40 <Luke-Jr> kdomanski: â¦â¦â¦â¦â¦â¦â¦â¦â¦â¦.
501 2014-04-09 03:51:48 <kdomanski> huh
502 2014-04-09 03:51:58 <kdomanski> I thought we were just bashing Qt
503 2014-04-09 03:52:01 Belkaar has joined
504 2014-04-09 03:52:18 <coryfields> kdomanski: well, if you want a third to bash.. throw python in there
505 2014-04-09 03:52:28 <kdomanski> sonofa...
506 2014-04-09 03:52:35 <coryfields> those are the top 3 on my hate list
507 2014-04-09 03:52:36 <justanotheruser> Kdoma
508 2014-04-09 03:52:39 <Luke-Jr> let's add Python to Bitcoin Core to allow users to script their own policy!
509 2014-04-09 03:52:42 * Luke-Jr hides
510 2014-04-09 03:53:05 <coryfields> Luke-Jr: only if it's python 3.4...
511 2014-04-09 03:53:14 <Luke-Jr> coryfields: doesn't meet distro dep requirements
512 2014-04-09 03:53:20 <Luke-Jr> gotta use 3.3? :P
513 2014-04-09 03:53:22 karc has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
514 2014-04-09 03:53:29 * Luke-Jr starts x32 build of BCCore
515 2014-04-09 03:53:36 <coryfields> heh
516 2014-04-09 03:53:48 <Luke-Jr> >>> Failed to emerge dev-util/boost-build-1.52.0-r1, Log file:
517 2014-04-09 03:53:50 <Luke-Jr> >>> '/var/tmp/portage/dev-util/boost-build-1.52.0-r1/temp/build.log'
518 2014-04-09 03:53:52 <Luke-Jr> ()%*#) boost
519 2014-04-09 03:53:56 <kdomanski> I liked it better when we were masturbating to modern C++
520 2014-04-09 03:53:58 <Luke-Jr> ^ see, we should switch to Qt
521 2014-04-09 03:53:59 <coryfields> ok, enough ot for me
522 2014-04-09 03:54:03 <kdomanski> so to speak
523 2014-04-09 03:54:06 blitzlightnin has joined
524 2014-04-09 03:55:03 <coryfields> warren: something is loaded at runtime, i didn't investigate what yet. that's enough for a POC
525 2014-04-09 03:55:26 <coryfields> warren: i've been testing my code against a bitcoind built that way all night, no issues to speak of
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529 2014-04-09 03:56:57 <warren> Luke-Jr: wouldn't 32bit address space fail soon?
530 2014-04-09 03:57:01 <gjs278> can QT be used to build an app like bitcoind
531 2014-04-09 03:57:06 <gjs278> or does it have to be gui
532 2014-04-09 03:57:12 Guest83843 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
533 2014-04-09 03:58:02 karc has joined
534 2014-04-09 03:58:52 <coryfields> warren: have you tested those changes?
535 2014-04-09 03:59:23 <kdomanski> Luke-Jr: http://isocpp.org/std/status
536 2014-04-09 03:59:42 <kdomanski> just remember
537 2014-04-09 03:59:43 <kdomanski> any URL may lead directly or indirectly to COIN-STEALING MALWARE
538 2014-04-09 03:59:44 <Luke-Jr> warren: no?
539 2014-04-09 04:00:02 <Luke-Jr> gjs278: Qt support console apps
540 2014-04-09 04:01:48 <coryfields> supports WinCE too. Equally good candidates :)
541 2014-04-09 04:02:12 <kdomanski> Qt is so hip and cool it has it's own QString class, because std::string is so mainstream
542 2014-04-09 04:02:14 <Luke-Jr> warren: from 2003-2011 I used x86_64, but I finally went back to x86_32 in 2012. so x32 is a welcome improvement.
543 2014-04-09 04:02:33 <Luke-Jr> kdomanski: Qt is to C++ what C++ is to C âº
544 2014-04-09 04:02:50 <coryfields> he says with a unicode smiley...
545 2014-04-09 04:02:51 <Luke-Jr> "C++ is so hip and cool it has it's own std::string class, because char* is so mainstream"
546 2014-04-09 04:03:19 <Luke-Jr> see, it works!
547 2014-04-09 04:03:42 <kdomanski> Qt is to C++ what Silverlight is to Flash
548 2014-04-09 04:04:05 <Luke-Jr> I'd never use Silverlight or Flash, so I can't relate.
549 2014-04-09 04:04:34 <Luke-Jr> coryfields: autotools fails â¹
550 2014-04-09 04:04:44 <coryfields> Luke-Jr: nah, i just have \u263A\n memorized
551 2014-04-09 04:04:45 <Luke-Jr> checking whether the Boost::System library is available... yes
552 2014-04-09 04:04:47 <Luke-Jr> configure: error: Could not find a version of the library!
553 2014-04-09 04:05:11 <coryfields> Luke-Jr: context?
554 2014-04-09 04:05:15 <Luke-Jr> # ls /usr/libx32/libboost_system*
555 2014-04-09 04:05:16 <kdomanski> me neither, but's it's just one of those cases, where you reinvent something in order to improve nothing significant and add some overhead
556 2014-04-09 04:05:17 <Luke-Jr> /usr/libx32/libboost_system-mt.so /usr/libx32/libboost_system.so /usr/libx32/libboost_system.so.1.52.0
557 2014-04-09 04:05:24 <Luke-Jr> coryfields: building bitcoin-qt
558 2014-04-09 04:05:29 ryanxcharles has joined
559 2014-04-09 04:05:37 justanot1eruser has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
560 2014-04-09 04:05:42 <coryfields> Luke-Jr: cripes... wtf kind of prefix is that...
561 2014-04-09 04:05:51 <Luke-Jr> coryfields: standard for x32
562 2014-04-09 04:06:07 <warren> coryfields: 32bit address space with x86_64 GPR's
563 2014-04-09 04:06:32 <coryfields> Luke-Jr: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/4019
564 2014-04-09 04:06:55 <Luke-Jr> coryfields: I don't see how that would help
565 2014-04-09 04:07:05 <warren> Luke-Jr: oh... was that concern limited to leveldb mmap
566 2014-04-09 04:07:06 <coryfields> Luke-Jr: fix should be pretty clear from that, patch would be appreciated
567 2014-04-09 04:07:12 <coryfields> Luke-Jr: ?
568 2014-04-09 04:07:25 <Luke-Jr> warren: no, orphan block storage IBD issues
569 2014-04-09 04:07:28 <warren> coryfields: sorry, still trying to put out a different fire
570 2014-04-09 04:07:49 <Luke-Jr> coryfields: wow, that logic is so broken
571 2014-04-09 04:07:50 <warren> trying it now
572 2014-04-09 04:08:08 justanot1eruser has joined
573 2014-04-09 04:08:09 <coryfields> Luke-Jr: those macros are a trainwreck...
574 2014-04-09 04:08:10 <Luke-Jr> coryfields: uname -m tells you nothing about the OS architecture, just the kernel..
575 2014-04-09 04:08:43 <coryfields> Luke-Jr: but ultimately it's boost's fault for not shipping something to help find what it installs, so i gave up on proper fixes
576 2014-04-09 04:08:48 <Luke-Jr> I'm surprised it builds on my real system O.o
577 2014-04-09 04:09:24 <coryfields> Luke-Jr: yea. They even have perfectly good build/host/target vars to use and for some reason they don't
578 2014-04-09 04:09:58 <Luke-Jr> something tells me if I install x86_64 boost, I won't be able to build anymore :x
579 2014-04-09 04:10:25 <coryfields> Luke-Jr: if i were you, i'd add your (weird) string there, push it upstream, and call it a day
580 2014-04-09 04:10:37 <coryfields> the urge to fix what's broken there only leads to pain and suffering
581 2014-04-09 04:10:53 <Luke-Jr> :<
582 2014-04-09 04:11:08 <coryfields> unless you want to take on all of boost's modules, that is :)
583 2014-04-09 04:11:25 <Luke-Jr> .. I'd sooner make a serious push to port to Qt only
584 2014-04-09 04:11:54 <coryfields> Luke-Jr: ^^ is why i'm so pro-c++11. It lets us cut lots of boost
585 2014-04-09 04:12:08 <coryfields> but sadly, most of what gets cut is header-only anyway
586 2014-04-09 04:12:57 <Luke-Jr> 0.8.6 builds fine on x32
587 2014-04-09 04:13:05 * Luke-Jr makes it coryfields's bug? :P
588 2014-04-09 04:13:31 <coryfields> heh, sure, but you have to verify my two-line fix
589 2014-04-09 04:13:51 justanot1eruser has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
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592 2014-04-09 04:14:54 <Luke-Jr> ok..
593 2014-04-09 04:15:01 <Luke-Jr> this going to fix both issues? ;)
594 2014-04-09 04:15:28 <coryfields> both?
595 2014-04-09 04:15:42 <Luke-Jr> 1) libx32
596 2014-04-09 04:15:47 Cryo has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
597 2014-04-09 04:15:55 <Luke-Jr> 2) using the actual OS arch, even if kernel-arch libs are available
598 2014-04-09 04:15:56 <coryfields> the first being your clownshoes prefix? :p
599 2014-04-09 04:16:18 <kdomanski> coryfields: actually, I'm about to cut boost_chrono
600 2014-04-09 04:16:37 <kdomanski> which is of course impossible without C++11
601 2014-04-09 04:16:39 <coryfields> kdomanski: ah yep, good example
602 2014-04-09 04:16:51 <coryfields> and that ships a lib, right?
603 2014-04-09 04:16:59 <Luke-Jr> coryfields: if I have x86_64 boost installed, bccore 0.9 tries to use it
604 2014-04-09 04:17:00 <kdomanski> yup
605 2014-04-09 04:17:06 <Luke-Jr> even though my OS is x86_32
606 2014-04-09 04:17:24 <Luke-Jr> I think
607 2014-04-09 04:17:46 <kdomanski> if the thread interruption mechanism could be somehow changed a bit, we could cut entire boost_thread too
608 2014-04-09 04:17:48 <coryfields> Luke-Jr: what's your host string according to configure?
609 2014-04-09 04:17:52 <kdomanski> and that's a big one
610 2014-04-09 04:18:00 ericmuyser has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
611 2014-04-09 04:18:12 <Luke-Jr> coryfields:
612 2014-04-09 04:18:13 <Luke-Jr> configure:2651: checking host system type
613 2014-04-09 04:18:15 <Luke-Jr> configure:2664: result: x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu
614 2014-04-09 04:18:32 <kdomanski> then it's just boost::filesystem::file_copy I think - no more libs
615 2014-04-09 04:18:54 <kdomanski> IIRC
616 2014-04-09 04:19:07 paveljanik has joined
617 2014-04-09 04:20:08 <coryfields> kdomanski: the one that really gets on my nerves is io_service
618 2014-04-09 04:20:23 <kdomanski> ah. right...
619 2014-04-09 04:20:35 <kdomanski> I'll take a closer look later this week
620 2014-04-09 04:20:45 <coryfields> it's shipped as a lib because of some dependency on some boost exception class
621 2014-04-09 04:20:59 <coryfields> which is standard c++11 now
622 2014-04-09 04:21:00 <kdomanski> oh god
623 2014-04-09 04:21:12 <coryfields> Luke-Jr: that's not what we're after
624 2014-04-09 04:21:12 justanot1eruser has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
625 2014-04-09 04:21:15 <coryfields> Luke-Jr: sec for something to grep
626 2014-04-09 04:21:38 MistaG_ is now known as MistaG
627 2014-04-09 04:22:10 <coryfields> Luke-Jr: hmm, maybe it is...
628 2014-04-09 04:22:33 <coryfields> Luke-Jr: clearly i don't understand how x32 works.
629 2014-04-09 04:23:35 tris has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
630 2014-04-09 04:23:52 <Luke-Jr> coryfields: the 2nd issue exists on my current x86_32 system, not just x32
631 2014-04-09 04:24:03 <Luke-Jr> I think. Based just on reading the code.
632 2014-04-09 04:24:07 <Luke-Jr> still trying to confirm
633 2014-04-09 04:24:25 <Luke-Jr> crossdev is being broken today
634 2014-04-09 04:24:31 <coryfields> Luke-Jr: the PR linked above was pulled in today
635 2014-04-09 04:26:06 paul0 has joined
636 2014-04-09 04:26:26 <coryfields> time for bed. Luke-Jr feel free to yell on the commits if they've broken something. i'll take a look tomorrow
637 2014-04-09 04:27:46 <warren> grrr
638 2014-04-09 04:27:59 <warren> gitian only works with signed, not annotated tags?
639 2014-04-09 04:29:05 <coryfields> works fine with any commit-ish for me
640 2014-04-09 04:29:06 <Luke-Jr> warren: you can't sign unannotated tags..
641 2014-04-09 04:30:51 <warren> git tag -a is unsigned tags
642 2014-04-09 04:39:24 jonrou has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
643 2014-04-09 04:39:31 jonrou has joined
644 2014-04-09 04:40:10 ThomasV has joined
645 2014-04-09 04:40:24 <warren> devrandom: does gitian have a way to specify the number of -j's you want from the outside?
646 2014-04-09 04:40:25 HectorJ has joined
647 2014-04-09 04:41:04 <coryfields> gbuild -j
648 2014-04-09 04:42:14 <warren> coryfields:
649 2014-04-09 04:42:18 <warren> coryfields: /usr/bin/ld: /usr/lib/gcc/x86_64-linux-gnu/4.6/libstdc++.a(codecvt.o): relocation R_X86_64_32S against `vtable for std::codecvt<char, char, __mbstate_t>' can
650 2014-04-09 04:42:18 <warren> not be used when making a shared object; recompile with -fPIC
651 2014-04-09 04:42:18 <warren> /usr/lib/gcc/x86_64-linux-gnu/4.6/libstdc++.a: could not read symbols: Bad value
652 2014-04-09 04:42:32 <warren> coryfields: i386 build succeeded, failed during x86-64 here
653 2014-04-09 04:43:36 lclc has quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
654 2014-04-09 04:45:15 <coryfields> warren: link some results on those commits and i'll take a look tomorow. brain's checked out for the night.
655 2014-04-09 04:45:28 <warren> ok
656 2014-04-09 04:46:48 smash has joined
657 2014-04-09 04:47:56 <coryfields> warren: if you feel like messing with it anymore in the meantime, see wumpus's pie changes for full static
658 2014-04-09 04:48:02 rdbell has quit (Quit: rdbell)
659 2014-04-09 04:48:36 <coryfields> nnite
660 2014-04-09 04:49:15 <warren> yeah, already trying it
661 2014-04-09 04:49:33 <gjs278> Luke-Jr: do you use pypy as your main python yet
662 2014-04-09 04:49:39 johnsoft has joined
663 2014-04-09 04:50:04 Coincidental has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
664 2014-04-09 04:50:22 <gjs278> I'd love an x32 system, I just finished up making everything that can be pypy work except for emerge --sync. I'm still using emerge-webrsync
665 2014-04-09 04:51:00 blitzlightnin has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
666 2014-04-09 04:51:54 <Luke-Jr> gjs278: pypy only supports ancient Python 2 afaik
667 2014-04-09 04:52:00 <Luke-Jr> I only use Python 3
668 2014-04-09 04:52:10 <gjs278> gotcha
669 2014-04-09 04:53:49 <warren> # For 64-bit, -pie with -static causes a link error
670 2014-04-09 04:53:49 <warren> - # Disable hardening in configure and manually pass 'static-safe' hardening flags
671 2014-04-09 04:54:00 <warren> coryfields: I'm afraid we will need to filter the libstdc++ symbols
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676 2014-04-09 05:03:26 <warren> wumpus: hmm, I didn't realize that you had to completely disable hardening for that static x86_64 build. yikes.
677 2014-04-09 05:03:40 blitzlightnin has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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698 2014-04-09 05:36:37 <warren> which Debian release has glibc-2.11?
699 2014-04-09 05:40:37 <warren> there's duplicate gitian instructions in gitian-descriptors/README.md and release-process.md
700 2014-04-09 05:40:42 <warren> they tend to fall out of sync
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736 2014-04-09 06:25:14 <msvb-lab> Any docs with guidance on using gitian to produce deterministic builds?
737 2014-04-09 06:25:30 <msvb-lab> Or the history of the gitian build system (which I believe was developed by Bitcoin folks?)
738 2014-04-09 06:25:47 smash has joined
739 2014-04-09 06:26:17 <fanquake> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/master/doc/gitian-building.md
740 2014-04-09 06:26:27 <fanquake> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/master/doc/release-process.md
741 2014-04-09 06:26:43 <fanquake> https://github.com/devrandom/gitian-builder
742 2014-04-09 06:27:40 blitzlightnin has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
743 2014-04-09 06:29:13 <gmaxwell> coryfields: right, my thought on the overflow is that you're going to either crash or hit a CR/LF before you read 2 gigabytes with very high probablity. I'm glad you had the same read on it I did.
744 2014-04-09 06:29:41 Milanito has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
745 2014-04-09 06:30:35 <gmaxwell> Luke-Jr: wrt GCC, generally GCC's reliablity has increased a lot in recent versions. I have a general preference to moving to 4.8 as soon as we reasonably can.
746 2014-04-09 06:30:44 abossard has joined
747 2014-04-09 06:30:55 <gmaxwell> (a bunch of code gen bugs have been fixedâ some even found by me)
748 2014-04-09 06:32:09 Milanito has joined
749 2014-04-09 06:32:16 blitzlightnin has joined
750 2014-04-09 06:32:34 <jrmithdobbs> i'd say i wonder if there's any actual noticable performance with clang vs gcc but lol c++ =/
751 2014-04-09 06:33:05 <scumb4g> http://trilema.com/2014/the-sins-of-the-group-of-posers-behind-the-so-called-bitcoin-foundation/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter
752 2014-04-09 06:33:36 <msvb-lab> fanquake: Thanks, very friendly to do my searching for me.
753 2014-04-09 06:33:38 <msvb-lab> Should have guessed that the canonical home of gitian was on github.
754 2014-04-09 06:34:00 <msvb-lab> Actually using it for tor though, so I wasn't sure if the name is the same everywhere it's applied.
755 2014-04-09 06:34:38 <fanquake> msvb-lab Just happened I had them open in a couple tabs, otherwise you'd be duckduckgo bound :P
756 2014-04-09 06:36:14 HeySteve has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
757 2014-04-09 06:36:27 HeySteve has joined
758 2014-04-09 06:36:40 <msvb-lab> fanquake: Yep, understood. Ddg.gg. Gitian is quite nice, just wrote a page on it at: https://trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/wiki/doc/TorBrowser/BuildingWithGitian/
759 2014-04-09 06:36:57 <msvb-lab> ...which is probably full of fake science and other errors. I wrote pretty fast.
760 2014-04-09 06:37:00 blitzlightnin has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
761 2014-04-09 06:37:23 wiz_ is now known as wiz
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764 2014-04-09 06:38:45 <msvb-lab> Going to link now to https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/master/doc/gitian-building.md
765 2014-04-09 06:39:01 _yoy_ has joined
766 2014-04-09 06:39:04 <msvb-lab> ...which resembles very much my VM setup doc https://trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/wiki/doc/TorBrowser/VMSetup/
767 2014-04-09 06:39:07 johnsoft has joined
768 2014-04-09 06:39:24 <warren> wumpus: sorry, read it more carefully now
769 2014-04-09 06:39:29 Subo1977 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
770 2014-04-09 06:39:34 <msvb-lab> This is probably off topic though, so I'll shut up for now.
771 2014-04-09 06:39:44 Subo1977 has joined
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773 2014-04-09 06:41:21 <warren> msvb-lab: follow the gitian directions and do a build yourself and dissect the VM to learn how it works
774 2014-04-09 06:41:29 <warren> msvb-lab: enter the VM while it is running with on-target and poke around
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780 2014-04-09 06:47:45 <msvb-lab> warren: Thanks for the tips. on-target is just the next step on my list of research.
781 2014-04-09 06:48:04 HeySteve has joined
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784 2014-04-09 06:48:25 <msvb-lab> It seems that after a few things bootstrap a DSA private key is placed in a /var subdirectory which is used by on-target to connect to the KVM based VM.
785 2014-04-09 06:49:04 bitspill has joined
786 2014-04-09 06:49:05 <msvb-lab> ...and that on LXC based builds SSH is not used to connect to the containers but some internal lxc-start thingy instead.
787 2014-04-09 06:49:22 <msvb-lab> Anyway, getting there little by little. Got to be patient.
788 2014-04-09 06:49:30 <msvb-lab> Thanks again for the tips.
789 2014-04-09 06:50:00 scumb4g has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
790 2014-04-09 06:50:17 <warren> I don't know how functional LXC is right now.
791 2014-04-09 06:50:20 <warren> michagogo|cloud: is LXC usable now?
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804 2014-04-09 07:06:42 <kdomanski> hmm, if I replace all of boost mutex stuff with std:: equivalents then I get a deadlock at shutdown
805 2014-04-09 07:06:43 <msvb-lab> warren: The Tor project is using gitian on VM guests no problem.
806 2014-04-09 07:07:11 sploush2 has joined
807 2014-04-09 07:07:16 <msvb-lab> And of course VM guests don't provide VT-x/AMD-V extensions, so the only way to go is LXC or equivalent (Solaris zones, etcetera) container system.
808 2014-04-09 07:07:40 sploush has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
809 2014-04-09 07:07:41 <msvb-lab> ...and yes, it works perfectly. Am testing it on a variety of VMs right now.
810 2014-04-09 07:08:36 <msvb-lab> In fact, anyone interested in gitian using LXC (if it's not working for bitcoin) should walk around the corner to #tor-dev (irc.oftc.org) and ask there.
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813 2014-04-09 07:09:59 <midnightmagic> warren: I'm using LXC.
814 2014-04-09 07:10:21 <fanquake> msvb-lab channel seems a bit empty?
815 2014-04-09 07:11:21 Grouver has joined
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817 2014-04-09 07:11:34 <msvb-lab> Huh, it's irc.oftc.net port 6697 TLS. Did you use freenode by mistake?
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824 2014-04-09 07:15:04 <fanquake> yea just jumped in. Only two other in there.
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833 2014-04-09 07:17:50 <msvb-lab> fanquake: What? No, there's something wrong. As you can imagine the Tor folks are very busy with the beading heart rodeo. There are several dozen people squirming in that room.
834 2014-04-09 07:19:24 <msvb-lab> Whoops got that as wrong as possible, meant Heartbleed of course.
835 2014-04-09 07:19:39 <fanquake> msvb-lab Yea I jumped in on freenode. Will join the proper chan in a sec.
836 2014-04-09 07:20:01 <msvb-lab> Which I would imagine affects Bitcoin core as well, unless you folks use PolarSSL or something other than OpenSSL.
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840 2014-04-09 07:21:08 <gmaxwell> kdomanski: I would almost be surprised if we don't have a locking bug or two on shutdown still.
841 2014-04-09 07:21:22 <gmaxwell> kdomanski: so it may be that the other primitives are exposing some existing bug.
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844 2014-04-09 07:22:13 <vetch> gmaxwell: you can't shut down properly / within a reasonable timeframe if you have a miner connected over RPC. sorta related.
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846 2014-04-09 07:22:58 <vetch> related because I get impatient and ^Z and end up with a locked database
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848 2014-04-09 07:23:41 <midnightmagic> namecoin still has a bug where if resendwallettransactions() takes longer than the delay before another trigger it'll never come back.
849 2014-04-09 07:27:05 <vetch> bitcoind: checkqueue.h:167: CCheckQueueControl<T>::CCheckQueueControl(CCheckQueue<T>*) [with T = CScriptCheck]: Assertion `pqueue->nTotal == pqueue->nIdle' failed.
850 2014-04-09 07:27:14 <vetch> that's an odd one.
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857 2014-04-09 07:29:00 <wumpus> warren: please don't spread fud, the static executables have all hardening flags enabled except for -pie
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860 2014-04-09 07:29:30 <warren> wumpus: yeah, that's what I totally misread
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862 2014-04-09 07:29:33 <warren> wumpus: i'm sorry.
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934 2014-04-09 07:59:31 <wumpus> does anyone know where the page went about reporting bitcoin security issues? (that mentions the bitcoin-security list) I can't find it anymore
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945 2014-04-09 08:04:58 <Luke-Jr> wumpus: https://bitcoin.org/en/development
946 2014-04-09 08:05:49 <wumpus> strange, that one didn't turn up on google
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954 2014-04-09 08:08:20 <kankles> just got error: {"code":-2,"message":"Safe mode: Warning: The network does not appear to fully agree! Some miners appear to be experiencing issues."}
955 2014-04-09 08:08:23 HeySteve has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
956 2014-04-09 08:08:26 <kankles> on testnet
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960 2014-04-09 08:09:00 <kankles> someone was mining like a block a second earlier.
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962 2014-04-09 08:10:13 <vetch> heh
963 2014-04-09 08:10:14 <vetch> that's me
964 2014-04-09 08:10:31 <vetch> kankles: > 600 block reorg
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969 2014-04-09 08:12:40 <vetch> hm. I seem to have killed Bitpay's insight with that.
970 2014-04-09 08:12:46 HeySteve has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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972 2014-04-09 08:13:09 <kankles> what was you?
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974 2014-04-09 08:13:40 <vetch> mm.
975 2014-04-09 08:13:56 <vetch> the network really, really hates reorganisations.
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980 2014-04-09 08:15:43 <gmaxwell> vetch: hm?
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985 2014-04-09 08:16:44 <vetch> gmaxwell: just things get sort of slow if you do multiple consecutive chains and reorg to them. my second test net node is struggling to keep up, Bitpay's Insight is having difficulty, blockexplorer.com isn't updating blocks anymore
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994 2014-04-09 08:19:10 <vetch> gmaxwell: it's taken almost 10 minutes for my testnet node to reorg 500 blocks.
995 2014-04-09 08:19:58 HeySteve has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
996 2014-04-09 08:20:37 <gmaxwell> vetch: if you just linked up a partitioned network, it doesn't try to reorg until the next block.
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1007 2014-04-09 08:23:15 <vetch> gmaxwell: the reorg triggered on the node, it's glacier slow with UpdateTip(). obviously not an issue just doesn't behave the way I expected.
1008 2014-04-09 08:23:22 <vetch> gmaxwell: is there a technical limit that stops me from reorging 3700 blocks? it doesn't seem to like me doing that particularly much.
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1016 2014-04-09 08:26:09 <gmaxwell> vetch: nope and I've tested reorgs much larger than that.
1017 2014-04-09 08:26:16 <vetch> REORGANIZE: Disconnect 3717 blocks; 0000000004ace122ee2d68d2814d9d8aeb3c93c9d536bd122f7f93bff5c6dda1..
1018 2014-04-09 08:26:19 <vetch> REORGANIZE: Connect 0 blocks; ..0000000004ace122ee2d68d2814d9d8aeb3c93c9d536bd122f7f93bff5c6dda1
1019 2014-04-09 08:26:23 <vetch> ERROR: DisconnectBlock() : undo data overwriting existing transaction
1020 2014-04-09 08:26:25 <gmaxwell> I'm not sure why it's "glacier slow" any more info?
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1023 2014-04-09 08:27:47 <vetch> gmaxwell: I didn't have the debugging enabled, all I've got is that it was taking ~2 seconds per UpdateTip(). each block is practically empty so I'm not sure what it was doing.
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1027 2014-04-09 08:29:50 <midnightmagic> well. the hashes look the same now for my gitian build but the form is weird.
1028 2014-04-09 08:30:00 <gmaxwell> vetch: uh that sounds like your database was corrupt. Did you do any manually manipulation of the block files/undo files/ chainstate?
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1030 2014-04-09 08:31:17 <vetch> gmaxwell: https://github.com/sipa/bitcoin/commit/9fe9d788a9eaf40cc5dd1171807b24c9bd170104.patch < probably nowhere near enough sanity checking somewhere in that. I realise it'd 100% not meant for use.. anywhere.
1031 2014-04-09 08:33:02 Belxjander has quit (Quit: System Restarting!!!)
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1033 2014-04-09 08:34:52 <kdomanski> gmaxwell: now that I think about it, C++11 locking might be simply unable to work properly with boost threads - I might need to cut out entire boost_thread before this works
1034 2014-04-09 08:35:48 <midnightmagic> uh.
1035 2014-04-09 08:36:00 <midnightmagic> has anyone done a ./bin/gverify for 0.9.1?
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1050 2014-04-09 08:42:49 <drizztbsd> hi, is there any other reason to upgrade to bitcoin 0.9.1?
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1052 2014-04-09 08:43:41 <wumpus> midnightmagic: yes, shows all OKs for me
1053 2014-04-09 08:43:50 <midnightmagic> wumpus: Thanks.
1054 2014-04-09 08:44:01 <midnightmagic> wumpus: I was building from the tag rather than the branch.
1055 2014-04-09 08:44:26 <wumpus> midnightmagic: I did have to fetch the key for ttsda as he's a new signer, if you don't it will complain about a missing key
1056 2014-04-09 08:44:38 <wumpus> midnightmagic: you should build from the tag (v0.9.1)
1057 2014-04-09 08:45:02 <wumpus> the tag is immutable and signed, the branch isn't
1058 2014-04-09 08:45:08 <midnightmagic> wumpus: I was getting a valid sig from gavin, and myself, but not from micha, tt.. wait what?
1059 2014-04-09 08:45:09 <wumpus> though they currently point to the same commit
1060 2014-04-09 08:45:39 <midnightmagic> Their release is 0.9.1, not v0.9.1
1061 2014-04-09 08:46:06 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Pong
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1063 2014-04-09 08:46:10 <midnightmagic> wumpus: Can you tell me about the form differences between asch/laan and the rest?
1064 2014-04-09 08:46:17 <wumpus> if you check the release process, you'll see that the v${VERSION} is added
1065 2014-04-09 08:46:24 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|midnightmagic: newer ruby = more new lines
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1067 2014-04-09 08:47:05 <wumpus> the gitian.sigs directory is called ${VERSION} or ${VERSION}-win, however the tag built from is v${VERSION}
1068 2014-04-09 08:47:49 <midnightmagic> michagogo|cloud: What's your host OS?
1069 2014-04-09 08:48:05 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|midnightmagic: which?
1070 2014-04-09 08:48:23 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|warren: I built v0.9.1 with lxc
1071 2014-04-09 08:48:28 <midnightmagic> michagogo|cloud: Where you did the gitian build. You had a host OS; I'm wondering how you get a newer ruby than I do.
1072 2014-04-09 08:48:39 <midnightmagic> (I am also using lxc.)
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1075 2014-04-09 08:49:37 <wumpus> if you do the gitian build on Ubuntu 14.04 (host, the guest will of course be 12.04) you get the 'new ruby'
1076 2014-04-09 08:49:43 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|midnightmagic: I do gbuilds in different places, depending on several factors
1077 2014-04-09 08:50:04 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|My 0.9.1 sigs are from precise
1078 2014-04-09 08:50:08 <warren> there's problems with a version of ruby?
1079 2014-04-09 08:50:13 <wumpus> warren: no
1080 2014-04-09 08:50:14 <wumpus> no problems
1081 2014-04-09 08:50:16 <warren> gitian works for me with ruby 2.0.0 through 2.1.1
1082 2014-04-09 08:50:19 <warren> oh ok
1083 2014-04-09 08:50:26 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|warren: newer versions do YAML styling differently
1084 2014-04-09 08:50:27 <wumpus> the yaml is pretty-printed differently
1085 2014-04-09 08:50:36 <wumpus> but the content (if you parse it) it is the same
1086 2014-04-09 08:50:41 <midnightmagic> warren: If the host is 12.04, the ruby chokes on the verify because the output of the gitian sign is incompatible.
1087 2014-04-09 08:50:50 <warren> is that related to the sigs being formatted weird sometimes?
1088 2014-04-09 08:50:58 <midnightmagic> yes.
1089 2014-04-09 08:51:00 <warren> ahh
1090 2014-04-09 08:51:20 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|So the older ruby can't parse the newer ruby's YAML?
1091 2014-04-09 08:51:24 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|o_O
1092 2014-04-09 08:51:27 <wumpus> crazy
1093 2014-04-09 08:51:40 <warren> everyone should be using rbenv anywa
1094 2014-04-09 08:51:41 <warren> anyway
1095 2014-04-09 08:51:49 <warren> the ruby in my distro is buggy
1096 2014-04-09 08:51:52 <jcorgan> n/cl
1097 2014-04-09 08:51:53 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|rbenv?
1098 2014-04-09 08:52:01 <warren> michagogo|cloud: the best way to run ruby
1099 2014-04-09 08:52:08 <midnightmagic> Also, gavin's signature works whether I use release=0.9.1 or v0.9.1, but the others don't. My sig matches if I use v0.9.1 release, but not if I use 0.9.1 release. Using 0.9.1 everyones who doesn't have the newer ruby form, matches.
1100 2014-04-09 08:52:17 * midnightmagic is sad that ruby is being used.
1101 2014-04-09 08:52:31 <warren> what would you prefer it be written in?
1102 2014-04-09 08:52:34 <wumpus> midnightmagic: why cares, it works, no holy wars here
1103 2014-04-09 08:52:38 Eiii has quit ()
1104 2014-04-09 08:52:38 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|midnightmagic: what do you have against ruby?
1105 2014-04-09 08:52:45 <wumpus> please take this elsewhere
1106 2014-04-09 08:52:58 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Is rbenv the same kind of thing as RVM?
1107 2014-04-09 08:53:12 <midnightmagic> .. this isn't a holy war. I'm sad that in this particular case it is making it difficult for me to participate in the gitian build process. I have nothing against Ruby itself.
1108 2014-04-09 08:53:12 <warren> I have nothing against ruby, I kind of dislike the OS though, there are better options for a long-term build environment.
1109 2014-04-09 08:53:31 * michagogo cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|uses RVM on unixy systems that he's actually using, which isn't many of them
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1111 2014-04-09 08:53:45 <midnightmagic> And an inability to verify by someone who is trying to gverify IMO is very on-topic.
1112 2014-04-09 08:54:56 <wumpus> midnightmagic: don't blame the programming language for that, it's likely something with the yaml library, there may even be an argument to pretty-print old-style
1113 2014-04-09 08:55:55 <warren> if a particular version of the library works, can't you lock it with Gemfile.lock?
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1116 2014-04-09 08:57:01 <midnightmagic> wumpus: It's an issue with the fragility of the host OS build environment. Sure, I can and am working around this. My ultimate hashes do in fact match, regardless of the lies gverify is telling me.
1117 2014-04-09 08:57:02 <wumpus> (not that I like the yaml choice in any case, json would have been more interoperable, it was tricky to set up the python yaml parser to get them to work)
1118 2014-04-09 08:57:36 <wumpus> (but that's yet another holy war for another day :p)
1119 2014-04-09 08:58:30 <gmaxwell> there is a whole seperate spec for signed json data... because json by itself isn't great for being signed. :(
1120 2014-04-09 08:58:52 <gmaxwell> https://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/jose/charter/
1121 2014-04-09 08:59:02 <midnightmagic> I'd like to point out that I am not asking anyone else to flex or bend around me right now; *I* am doing the bending. The problem is my own. I'm just asking questions that will spare me a few hours of careful debugging and rebuilding so I can create a set of sigs that can ultimately be included in the canonical gitian.sigs
1122 2014-04-09 08:59:22 <wumpus> gmaxwell: well in this case mutability isn't much of an issue, as the entire file is signed
1123 2014-04-09 08:59:25 <warren> I'd like to rewrite gitian one day
1124 2014-04-09 08:59:44 <gmaxwell> midnightmagic: your complaint above was externally indistuishable from a random language favortism gripe, at least to someone who knows you less well than I do.
1125 2014-04-09 09:00:00 <midnightmagic> gmaxwell: That is why I clarified rather than gave up.
1126 2014-04-09 09:00:45 <hearn> gmaxwell: lol. i think youâve been reading too many crypto papers
1127 2014-04-09 09:00:48 <warren> mm, i'm tired
1128 2014-04-09 09:00:54 <hearn> âexternally indistinguishable from randomâ?
1129 2014-04-09 09:00:58 <wumpus> but it's interesting that thought went into the yaml choice, if it's better suited for signing it's a good choice
1130 2014-04-09 09:01:00 <gmaxwell> hah
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1132 2014-04-09 09:02:13 * warren sleep
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1138 2014-04-09 09:07:51 <wumpus> kdomanski: this is funny, gitian calls your branch name 'unsanitary' bin/gbuild:25:in `sanitize': unsanitary string in C++11 (RuntimeError)
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1142 2014-04-09 09:08:43 <wumpus> no problem, I'll just create a tracking branch with another name
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1149 2014-04-09 09:11:24 <midnightmagic> wumpus: You mentioned that the v$VERSION is added somewhere in the release process. Can you tell me where?
1150 2014-04-09 09:11:48 <midnightmagic> Or.. can anyone tell me where.
1151 2014-04-09 09:12:09 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|midnightmagic: release-process.md
1152 2014-04-09 09:12:25 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|You export, for example, VERSION=0.9.1
1153 2014-04-09 09:12:53 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|And then some places use v$VERSION and others use $VERSION
1154 2014-04-09 09:13:14 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|If I recall correctly, the git checkout and the gbuild --commit line use v$VERSION
1155 2014-04-09 09:13:17 <midnightmagic> ah. in the written copy-pasta-ish stuff then
1156 2014-04-09 09:13:24 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|The signing destination dir uses $VERSION
1157 2014-04-09 09:13:27 <kdomanski> wumpus: lol
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1159 2014-04-09 09:13:57 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|6:41:12 <warren> RHEL7 might be an excellent replacement for gitian VM, 10 years of support on a distro with gcc-4.8.2
1160 2014-04-09 09:14:28 <gmaxwell> it's a bit annoying to need a whole OS in the builder VM.
1161 2014-04-09 09:14:39 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Is RHEL not a paid product?
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1163 2014-04-09 09:15:04 <midnightmagic> RHEL is a paid product, with an obfuscated kernel patchset.
1164 2014-04-09 09:15:21 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Also, does something like debootstrap exist for it?
1165 2014-04-09 09:16:01 <midnightmagic> I *think* Oracle de-obfuscated it and originally was promising to continue to de-obfuscate it. I don't know what happened to that in the last six months or so.
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1168 2014-04-09 09:19:33 <Luke-Jr> I presume warren was thinking something like CentOS or SL which are just RHEL clones
1169 2014-04-09 09:20:16 <midnightmagic> CentOS did not de-obfuscate the kernel patchset.
1170 2014-04-09 09:20:25 <Luke-Jr> midnightmagic: relevance?
1171 2014-04-09 09:21:32 <midnightmagic> Who knows what the kernel is doing?
1172 2014-04-09 09:22:00 <midnightmagic> 10 years of support is nice though
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1174 2014-04-09 09:22:01 <hearn> de-obfuscate?
1175 2014-04-09 09:22:09 <hearn> surely you mean itâs just not well documented or something?
1176 2014-04-09 09:23:03 <midnightmagic> hearn: The kernel patchset for RHEL was converted from broken-out, purpose-specific patches (a few hundred or so I guess) into one giant nasty monolithic patch where inter-related patches are no longer individual. You must pay the subscriber fee to see the broken-out patchset.
1177 2014-04-09 09:23:17 <gmaxwell> hearn: the past controversy was because they kept their own git repo private and then did only bulk code drops, not usable freestanding patches. Of course some companies do most of their opensource via codedrop... so.. ::shrugs::
1178 2014-04-09 09:23:30 <midnightmagic> hearn: This was in retaliation for Oracle's fork.
1179 2014-04-09 09:24:44 HANTI is now known as hanti
1180 2014-04-09 09:25:34 <hearn> right
1181 2014-04-09 09:25:39 <hearn> so they just squashed their patch, basically
1182 2014-04-09 09:26:09 <midnightmagic> And removed documenting nomenclature.
1183 2014-04-09 09:26:39 <kdomanski> midnightmagic: I'd say they're just protecting their bussiness model
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1186 2014-04-09 09:27:21 <midnightmagic> kdomanski: Correct. And now it's hard to study what they've done; research that was easy before is now difficult without paying the ransom.
1187 2014-04-09 09:28:39 eristisk has joined
1188 2014-04-09 09:29:45 <drizztbsd> from an italian newspaper: "The researchers called the problem "Heartbleed" (bleeding heart) because it involves the vital center of the encryption protocol that sends messages back and forth on the server."
1189 2014-04-09 09:29:55 <drizztbsd> lol
1190 2014-04-09 09:30:11 <Luke-Jr> kdomanski: DRM is protecting a business model too :P
1191 2014-04-09 09:31:07 <hearn> drizztbsd: haha
1192 2014-04-09 09:31:31 <kdomanski> can't blame someone for wanting a return on investment
1193 2014-04-09 09:31:34 milanito has joined
1194 2014-04-09 09:31:37 <hearn> i love how journalists manage to mangle things that are right on the front of a single page website that has the name of the story theyâre writing about as its domain name
1195 2014-04-09 09:31:45 <hearn> s/journalists/a few journalists/
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1199 2014-04-09 09:32:47 <kdomanski> of course DRM is a case of good managers applying irrelevant experience in a new and unforgiving envoronment
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1202 2014-04-09 09:34:37 <hearn> kdomanski: actually it can often be a sensible business decision.
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1205 2014-04-09 09:34:59 <hearn> kdomanski: there are plenty of case studies showing cost of DRM < savings from less piracy, for particular pieces of software
1206 2014-04-09 09:35:21 <hearn> and iâve heard from reliable sources the same is true, or has at times been true, in the movie business as well. though i havenât seen those case studies myself
1207 2014-04-09 09:35:32 <midnightmagic> Long as you're willing to push the costs onto your users, sure.
1208 2014-04-09 09:37:57 W0rmDr1nk has joined
1209 2014-04-09 09:38:09 <kdomanski> of course a good manager evaluates it case by case
1210 2014-04-09 09:40:24 smash has joined
1211 2014-04-09 09:41:10 <kdomanski> when you can watch a movie online for a couple of µBTC, you're not going to bother with downloading a DRM-broken version from torrents
1212 2014-04-09 09:42:09 <sipa> depends on the convenience
1213 2014-04-09 09:42:20 <sipa> not necessarily on the price
1214 2014-04-09 09:42:27 <kdomanski> true
1215 2014-04-09 09:42:33 <Luke-Jr> Bitcoin makes it more convenient!
1216 2014-04-09 09:42:42 <midnightmagic> comment, research, fair use, time-shifting, and archival purposes are not compatible with that approach.
1217 2014-04-09 09:42:47 <warren> hearn: the patchsets were available to customers
1218 2014-04-09 09:43:18 <midnightmagic> via a reeeealy slow web interface.
1219 2014-04-09 09:43:18 <vetch> Luke-Jr: just you wait, somebody will start trying to stuff DRM tokens into your blockchain soon, though I've no idea why.
1220 2014-04-09 09:43:19 <hearn> midnightmagic: some of them can be, actually
1221 2014-04-09 09:43:25 <kdomanski> Electronic Arts succesfully pulled a few stunts where legal game buyers had to resort to downloading cracks
1222 2014-04-09 09:43:36 <midnightmagic> hearn: I agree.
1223 2014-04-09 09:43:37 <hearn> midnightmagic: Cinavia is a good example of fair use compatible DRM
1224 2014-04-09 09:43:55 <vetch> kdomanski: yep. I had to download a crack for Spore because it's DRM was so restrictive that I couldn't play.
1225 2014-04-09 09:44:17 <vetch> I literally had the disk in my hand but still couldn't play the damn thing.
1226 2014-04-09 09:44:24 <hearn> PC DRM is a losing proposition because the playing field is too balanced. Console DRM works much better for all parties, because it was designed into the platform from the start
1227 2014-04-09 09:44:28 <midnightmagic> ack, I hate Cinavia. Man that stuff is pernicious! :-)
1228 2014-04-09 09:44:51 <kdomanski> ah, the pc master race
1229 2014-04-09 09:45:05 <midnightmagic> gotta go. i pushed my gitian sigs. I'd be very grateful if someone would tell me if they can gverify with my sigs.
1230 2014-04-09 09:46:28 <kdomanski> gmaxwell: I surrender - there's no way to eliminate boost_thread without implementing an alternative for thread interruption - and std::thread doesn't have one
1231 2014-04-09 09:47:22 <HectorJ> Hi all! I've been reading the bitcoin-core code and I wondered if you could explain me something : What is the reasoning behind the memlocking (cf allocators.h/.cpp)? Is the swap considered unsafe for keys, and why? (trying to learn)
1232 2014-04-09 09:47:45 <sipa> HectorJ: you don't want private keys to end up on disk
1233 2014-04-09 09:48:00 <sipa> HectorJ: someone could later extract them
1234 2014-04-09 09:48:12 <Apocalyptic> that's a standard handling
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1236 2014-04-09 09:48:28 <HectorJ> isn't RAM also extractable?
1237 2014-04-09 09:48:43 <kdomanski> not a few minutes after poweroff
1238 2014-04-09 09:49:01 <sipa> HectorJ: yes, but if an attacker can acess your ram at the time of access itself, you're already doomed
1239 2014-04-09 09:49:04 <vetch> HectorJ: if you're worried about physical access, you've already lost.
1240 2014-04-09 09:49:54 <HectorJ> ok, I see. RAM isn't perfectly safe but way safer than swap. Makes sense
1241 2014-04-09 09:50:21 <sipa> well, we assume ram perfectly safe
1242 2014-04-09 09:50:45 <sipa> as there is nothing you can do without that assumption
1243 2014-04-09 09:50:50 <HectorJ> If i understood well, heartbleed proves it's not always true
1244 2014-04-09 09:50:55 <vetch> HectorJ: don't even have to shut a computer down if you steal it. you just get out your HotPlug Field Kit, swap the power source on the fly and attack it at your own comfort in another location. http://www.cru-inc.com/products/wiebetech/hotplug_field_kit/
1245 2014-04-09 09:51:17 <sipa> HectorJ: that is not a provlem with the ram
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1247 2014-04-09 09:52:39 <vetch> they also sell a "mouse jiggler" usb mouse emulator to stop seized computers automatically locking and encrypting. creepy.
1248 2014-04-09 09:52:40 <sipa> HectorJ: there are always different attack vectors
1249 2014-04-09 09:53:11 <sipa> but if you assume an attacker has direct access to your memory, they could just overwrite your wallet code with something that leaks keys
1250 2014-04-09 09:53:32 <gmaxwell> vetch: you don't use an accelerometer tamper switch?!
1251 2014-04-09 09:53:51 <sipa> however, they may have access to the disk your system uses after the fact, but not while you are using it
1252 2014-04-09 09:54:20 <sipa> that said, we're not consistently protecting against that use case either
1253 2014-04-09 09:54:48 <sipa> mostly just a best effort protection... it likely makes things harder in practice
1254 2014-04-09 09:55:42 <vetch> gmaxwell: I imagine after the first false trigger and the thermite disk destroyer messes up the data centre, they wouldn't be very keen to invite you back
1255 2014-04-09 09:56:25 <vetch> in honestly I've never heard of accelerometers being used as a security device
1256 2014-04-09 09:56:40 johnsoft has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1257 2014-04-09 09:56:47 <HectorJ> sipa: thanks for the explanation... now I'm out to study the key encryption
1258 2014-04-09 09:56:47 johnsoft has joined
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1260 2014-04-09 09:57:53 <sipa> HectorJ: actual keys are encrypted with aes using a master key, the master key itself is encrypted with a passphrase
1261 2014-04-09 10:00:36 <HectorJ> you make it sound easy. I'm still going to look how it transposes into code
1262 2014-04-09 10:01:12 elichai2 has joined
1263 2014-04-09 10:01:16 <elichai2> sipa: ?
1264 2014-04-09 10:01:18 <elichai2> here?
1265 2014-04-09 10:01:33 <sipa> unfortunately, yes
1266 2014-04-09 10:01:37 <elichai2> lol
1267 2014-04-09 10:01:49 <elichai2> wait a sec, the block counter started moving again :)
1268 2014-04-09 10:01:52 wallet42 has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
1269 2014-04-09 10:01:55 <elichai2> for now i'm ok :)
1270 2014-04-09 10:02:09 <elichai2> (i'm in block 229190)
1271 2014-04-09 10:02:35 <elichai2> but thx, if it will happen again i'll return :)
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1302 2014-04-09 10:46:33 <Luke-Jr> wumpus: do you agree with 0.8.7rc2 being low priority, or should I bump it up?
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1305 2014-04-09 10:49:45 <wumpus> Luke-Jr: I'd feel safer if it was upgraded
1306 2014-04-09 10:49:53 <melvster> in signrawtransaction what's the difference between scriptPubKey and redeemScript?
1307 2014-04-09 10:50:05 <wumpus> also because of the other openssl issue (the possible side channel attack)
1308 2014-04-09 10:50:22 <Luke-Jr> hm, true
1309 2014-04-09 10:50:51 * Luke-Jr puts it on today's get-to-doing list
1310 2014-04-09 10:50:54 <sipa> melvster: redeemScript is serialized inside scriptSig (p2sh)
1311 2014-04-09 10:51:16 <melvster> sipa: ah thanks
1312 2014-04-09 10:51:32 <drizztbsd> should I version bump openssl also if I update system openssl library?
1313 2014-04-09 10:52:36 <sipa> drizztbsd: version bump?
1314 2014-04-09 10:52:47 <drizztbsd> 0.9.1
1315 2014-04-09 10:52:49 <drizztbsd> from 0.9.0
1316 2014-04-09 10:53:05 <sipa> did you build bitcoin yourself?
1317 2014-04-09 10:53:20 <wumpus> drizztbsd: upgrading to 0.9.1 is only effective if you use the pre-built executables
1318 2014-04-09 10:53:27 <sipa> (with nsd in your nickname, i guess yes)
1319 2014-04-09 10:53:32 <sipa> *bsd
1320 2014-04-09 10:53:59 <wumpus> drizztbsd: otherwise you need to make sure your OS has upgraded OpenSSL (and if you used static linking you need to rebuild)
1321 2014-04-09 10:54:01 <sipa> the source code for 0.9 and 0.9.1 is the same; only the released binary is linked against a newer openssl
1322 2014-04-09 10:54:11 <drizztbsd> I'm the maintainer of archlinux bitcoin packages
1323 2014-04-09 10:54:24 <drizztbsd> since we use system openssl I should not need to update it
1324 2014-04-09 10:54:30 <sipa> indeed
1325 2014-04-09 10:54:36 <drizztbsd> ok, thanks
1326 2014-04-09 10:54:38 <wumpus> right, then it would be security theatre to upgrade
1327 2014-04-09 10:54:42 <sipa> though it won't hurt
1328 2014-04-09 10:54:55 <Luke-Jr> could make it depend on the newer openssl :P
1329 2014-04-09 10:55:19 <sipa> heh, make bitcoin test at runtime for the openssl version?
1330 2014-04-09 10:56:03 <wumpus> sipa: I've thought about that but it's not so easy; some distributions patch the issue without changing the reported openssl version number
1331 2014-04-09 10:56:40 <warren> you could run the exploit to test it
1332 2014-04-09 10:56:46 <warren> I saw a few versions of it
1333 2014-04-09 10:57:21 <warren> oh right, I'm supposed to be sleeping ...
1334 2014-04-09 10:57:30 <wumpus> it'd be *possible* to do that in the configure script
1335 2014-04-09 10:57:42 <wumpus> --enable-hyperparanoid
1336 2014-04-09 10:58:43 <sipa> haha
1337 2014-04-09 10:59:45 <warren> a browser plugin that tests the SSL server and tells the user "you probably don't want to login here"
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1339 2014-04-09 11:01:13 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|13:53:36 <sipa> heh, make bitcoin test at runtime for the openssl version?
1340 2014-04-09 11:01:13 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Maybe build date is better
1341 2014-04-09 11:01:20 <wumpus> warren: I like where that is going, next thing will be a complete exploit suite built into webbrowsers that auto-scans sites for vulnerabilities :-)
1342 2014-04-09 11:01:38 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Or both, actually -- check version, and if it's between 1.0.1 and 1.0.1f, check the build date
1343 2014-04-09 11:02:03 <warren> michagogo|cloud: why when you can reliably test the exploit?
1344 2014-04-09 11:02:06 <wumpus> well build date isn't very reliable, you could build the openssl with bug now
1345 2014-04-09 11:02:26 <drizztbsd> or you can build with openssl < 1.0.0 :P
1346 2014-04-09 11:02:36 <warren> huh, 1.0.0 is vulnerable?
1347 2014-04-09 11:02:45 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|I don't think so?
1348 2014-04-09 11:02:45 <drizztbsd> or with openssl 1.0.1 without heartbeat enabled :P
1349 2014-04-09 11:03:11 <drizztbsd> like debian i think
1350 2014-04-09 11:03:30 <warren> I saw at least one implementation of a patch that serves fake payloads when the exploit is used.
1351 2014-04-09 11:03:45 <Luke-Jr> [10:58:02] <warren> a browser plugin that tests the SSL server and tells the user "you probably don't want to login here" <-- if they're actually being MITM'd, the MITM will probably not have the exploit himself
1352 2014-04-09 11:04:10 <warren> Luke-Jr: It was a joke.
1353 2014-04-09 11:04:16 <Luke-Jr> k
1354 2014-04-09 11:05:30 <drizztbsd> [almost-ot] is electrum vulnerable too?
1355 2014-04-09 11:05:54 <warren> drizztbsd: depends on how you got it ...
1356 2014-04-09 11:06:09 <Luke-Jr> does Electrum support PP?
1357 2014-04-09 11:06:33 <warren> Luke-Jr: it uses openssl for various things
1358 2014-04-09 11:06:37 <warren> I didn't look closely
1359 2014-04-09 11:07:39 <warren> I'm guessing most electrum users have a windows or mac package that includes the entire library stack and python, so that probably has a copy of openssl in it.
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1362 2014-04-09 11:09:30 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|warren: http://packetstormsecurity.com/files/126068
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1418 2014-04-09 12:04:46 <gorran> Hi
1419 2014-04-09 12:04:54 dims has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
1420 2014-04-09 12:04:55 <gorran> Trying to add private key to wallet with importprivkey command
1421 2014-04-09 12:05:12 <gorran> Get error message "Error adding key to wallet (code -4)"
1422 2014-04-09 12:05:13 zcopley has joined
1423 2014-04-09 12:05:20 <Luke-Jr> usually a bad idea, and this is not #bitcoin
1424 2014-04-09 12:05:41 <gorran> I google and it say i need to type my password, but I have never setup a password
1425 2014-04-09 12:05:49 <Luke-Jr> again, this is not #bitcoin
1426 2014-04-09 12:06:00 <Luke-Jr> support requests are not development
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1463 2014-04-09 12:35:42 <jouke> I had a wallet with a -connect to an unreachable node and I have the feeling that it slowed down the wallet over time.
1464 2014-04-09 12:37:06 smash has joined
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1466 2014-04-09 12:39:26 <jouke> Timeouts would not occur that often the first few days after restarting the node and now that I removed the -connect to the unreachable node I don't seem to get as many timeouts as before.
1467 2014-04-09 12:39:44 soulblade738_ has joined
1468 2014-04-09 12:40:02 <jouke> (version 0.9.something)
1469 2014-04-09 12:41:15 debianto1user has joined
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1472 2014-04-09 12:42:14 <elichai2> sipa: :(
1473 2014-04-09 12:42:21 <elichai2> i got "Syste error: Database corrupted."
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1477 2014-04-09 12:43:44 <elichai2> sipa: here?
1478 2014-04-09 12:43:56 ryanxcharles has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1479 2014-04-09 12:44:38 <elichai2> i'm now uplaoding the whole debug.log but basically that is the error: http://pastebin.com/xU4Um1fF
1480 2014-04-09 12:45:17 <elichai2> sipa isn't here?
1481 2014-04-09 12:45:24 <elichai2> so anyone else can help me?
1482 2014-04-09 12:45:36 roconnor__ has joined
1483 2014-04-09 12:45:53 <elichai2> i tried to import bootstrap.dat and it got stuck in the middle(more at the end...)
1484 2014-04-09 12:45:57 <elichai2> i tried couple times
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1489 2014-04-09 12:49:33 <Luke-Jr> elichai2: didn't you have this before?
1490 2014-04-09 12:50:41 zcopley has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
1491 2014-04-09 12:50:48 <elichai2> yes i did
1492 2014-04-09 12:51:01 <elichai2> as i said elichai2 | i tried couple times
1493 2014-04-09 12:53:34 Belxjander has joined
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1495 2014-04-09 12:54:46 <sipa> elichai2: ugh :)
1496 2014-04-09 12:55:18 <elichai2> sipa: hi....
1497 2014-04-09 12:55:38 debiantoruser has joined
1498 2014-04-09 12:55:39 <sipa> elichai2: that's leveldb itself reporting that its database is corrupted
1499 2014-04-09 12:55:46 smash has joined
1500 2014-04-09 12:56:18 <elichai2> sipa: so?
1501 2014-04-09 12:56:18 <Luke-Jr> elichai2: well, figure out why your storage is broken I guess.
1502 2014-04-09 12:56:25 <Luke-Jr> nothing we can do about it except complain
1503 2014-04-09 12:56:45 <elichai2> Luke-Jr: HD or RAM?
1504 2014-04-09 12:57:06 <Luke-Jr> elichai2: could be either
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1508 2014-04-09 12:57:41 <Luke-Jr> Bitcoin is inherently demanding of perfect HD/RAM.
1509 2014-04-09 12:57:59 <sipa> it could just be inconsistent semantics in the OS too
1510 2014-04-09 12:58:06 <sipa> (he mentioned using an encrypted fs)
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1512 2014-04-09 12:58:10 <elichai2> Luke-Jr: i'll try running Memorytest
1513 2014-04-09 12:58:53 <elichai2> sipa: what about running Bitcoin-qt with bootstrap.dat on non-encrypted PC with better RAM+CPU+HD and then copy the whole .bitcoin dir to my laptop?
1514 2014-04-09 12:58:53 <Luke-Jr> sipa: that's why I said "storage" the first time around :D
1515 2014-04-09 12:59:03 <Luke-Jr> elichai2: syncing is constant.
1516 2014-04-09 12:59:08 <Luke-Jr> constantly going on*
1517 2014-04-09 12:59:09 <sipa> elichai2: it's likely to corrupt afterwards anyway
1518 2014-04-09 12:59:24 <sipa> loading from bootstrap.dat is exactly the same as loading from network, except faster
1519 2014-04-09 12:59:40 <kinlo> hmmmz
1520 2014-04-09 12:59:52 <kinlo> elichai2: talking on 2 channels isn't very productive
1521 2014-04-09 12:59:59 greenspa has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1522 2014-04-09 13:00:02 <elichai2> ok
1523 2014-04-09 13:00:06 smash has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1524 2014-04-09 13:00:07 <kinlo> also, you're misleading people here by not telling them you self-compiled...
1525 2014-04-09 13:00:09 <elichai2> i just got an syslog8 error :(
1526 2014-04-09 13:00:16 <elichai2> maybe it's just my kernel that curropted
1527 2014-04-09 13:00:19 <kinlo> and so they don't know what version you are actually running.
1528 2014-04-09 13:00:45 <elichai2> they know....
1529 2014-04-09 13:00:51 <elichai2> i'm running 0.9.0
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1532 2014-04-09 13:01:21 <kinlo> anyway, your questions are more suited for #bitcoin imho
1533 2014-04-09 13:01:40 <elichai2> ok....
1534 2014-04-09 13:01:47 <elichai2> any chance it's my kernel?
1535 2014-04-09 13:01:55 <elichai2> (cause i have kernel panic right now...)
1536 2014-04-09 13:02:22 <kinlo> your kernel panic just confirms me asking you wether your hardware is working fine
1537 2014-04-09 13:02:49 <kinlo> I strongly doubt there is a bitcoin problem here, your computer is just not running like it should. First fix that, then return to the bitcoin stuff
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1546 2014-04-09 13:07:00 <todam00n> anyone knows what bitcoind does when the blocklacotre is a null hash?
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1550 2014-04-09 13:07:59 <Luke-Jr> wtf is a blocklacotre?
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1553 2014-04-09 13:09:04 <kjj> I think he means the block locator hashes in the getblocks p2p message
1554 2014-04-09 13:10:14 <todam00n> lol
1555 2014-04-09 13:10:16 <todam00n> block locator
1556 2014-04-09 13:11:21 <wallet42> OpenSSL is written by monkeys
1557 2014-04-09 13:11:38 <wallet42> wow what a rant
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1598 2014-04-09 13:47:43 lysobit is now known as bassus
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1609 2014-04-09 13:53:57 <venzen> Luke-Jr: any civilized person would instantly know that he meant 'block locator' - he just said it in the Language of Love :D
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1612 2014-04-09 13:54:54 <buZz> venzen: swahili?
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1614 2014-04-09 13:55:15 <venzen> :))
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1675 2014-04-09 14:50:03 <todam00n> chainwork is a uint256 number?
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1679 2014-04-09 14:52:55 <sipa> todam00n: yes
1680 2014-04-09 14:53:17 Belxjander has joined
1681 2014-04-09 14:53:36 <sipa> (its current value is only 78 bits, though)
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1698 2014-04-09 15:06:16 <elichai2> hey :)
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1700 2014-04-09 15:06:35 <elichai2> kinlo: sipa, i found out one of my RAM crads was curropted
1701 2014-04-09 15:06:46 <elichai2> so i removed it,
1702 2014-04-09 15:07:14 <elichai2> now to just try running again bitcoin-qt or i have to run it from zero?(remove the .bitcoin first)
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1704 2014-04-09 15:07:48 <sipa> elichai2: run with -reindex
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1706 2014-04-09 15:07:51 <sipa> do not delete anything
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1708 2014-04-09 15:08:15 <elichai2> -reindex, isn't removing right? (not like -rescan)
1709 2014-04-09 15:08:25 <sipa> -reindex rebuilds all databases
1710 2014-04-09 15:08:34 <elichai2> ohh.....
1711 2014-04-09 15:08:57 <elichai2> what the diffrence between -reindex and -rescan
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1714 2014-04-09 15:09:12 <elichai2> and what is the diffrence between -reindex and just deleting the DB?
1715 2014-04-09 15:09:13 <sipa> rescan adds missing wallet transaction; it has nothing to do with validation or the blockchain
1716 2014-04-09 15:09:30 <danielpbarron> so this openssl thing, does that effect anyone who used the command like openssl tool to encrypt files?
1717 2014-04-09 15:09:40 <danielpbarron> command line* tool
1718 2014-04-09 15:09:53 <elichai2> you don't use openssl to encrypt file...
1719 2014-04-09 15:09:58 <elichai2> *files
1720 2014-04-09 15:10:16 <elichai2> ssl is an communication encryption...
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1722 2014-04-09 15:11:16 <sipa> elichai2: openssl is much more than that (unfortunately...)
1723 2014-04-09 15:11:18 <sipa> danielpbarron: no
1724 2014-04-09 15:11:30 <sipa> danielpbarron: it's only the SSL protocol part of openssl that is affected
1725 2014-04-09 15:11:42 <elichai2> sipa: how can u encrypt a file using SSL protocol?!
1726 2014-04-09 15:11:43 <danielpbarron> right, i was gonna say, i've definitely used openssl in the past to encrypt files; it has -in and -out parameters and everything
1727 2014-04-09 15:11:46 <sipa> elichai2: you don't
1728 2014-04-09 15:11:54 <danielpbarron> sipa: thank you for the info; that's what i suspected
1729 2014-04-09 15:11:54 <sipa> elichai2: OpenSSL is much more than an SSL implementation
1730 2014-04-09 15:12:02 <elichai2> ohhh
1731 2014-04-09 15:12:23 <danielpbarron> yeah you can do AES encryption with the openssl command line tool
1732 2014-04-09 15:12:25 <Apocalyptic> <elichai2> you don't use openssl to encrypt file... // actually you do
1733 2014-04-09 15:12:33 <elichai2> ohh ok sorry :)
1734 2014-04-09 15:12:46 ThomasV has joined
1735 2014-04-09 15:12:51 <elichai2> (i didn't knew openssl does more things than just SSL/TLS)
1736 2014-04-09 15:13:41 <elichai2> bitcoin-qt rescanning killing all the RAM i had left
1737 2014-04-09 15:13:45 <elichai2> so i need to leave...
1738 2014-04-09 15:13:51 Arnavion has quit (Quit: Arnavion)
1739 2014-04-09 15:14:03 <elichai2> (now i have only 1GB RAM cause my other 1GB got corrupted)
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1752 2014-04-09 15:23:32 <todam00n> can anyone confirm that the genesis's chain work is 0100010001 (hex)?
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1772 2014-04-09 15:34:23 <maaku> todam00n: looks right
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1779 2014-04-09 15:42:20 <CheckDavid> I am looking for web developers to integrate a team that is developing an open source source wallet for multiple crypto currencies. If you are interested in a full time paid position for this this role please contact me. PS: Also looking for a team project leader.
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1788 2014-04-09 15:51:17 <Ry4an> the area under a team is usually easier to measure using displacement. ;)
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1809 2014-04-09 16:17:34 <CheckDavid> What Ry4an ? lol
1810 2014-04-09 16:17:56 <sipa> "integrate a team"
1811 2014-04-09 16:18:14 <CheckDavid> What If it is a distributed team?
1812 2014-04-09 16:18:21 <CheckDavid> Oh. Lol
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1815 2014-04-09 16:18:43 <CheckDavid> Is it bad English by the way to say integrate?
1816 2014-04-09 16:18:57 <sipa> no
1817 2014-04-09 16:19:02 <CheckDavid> Thanks
1818 2014-04-09 16:19:07 <buZz> its not proper for the context though
1819 2014-04-09 16:19:09 <sipa> (well, i'm not native english...)
1820 2014-04-09 16:19:14 <buZz> > 17:40:37 < CheckDavid> I am looking for web developers to integrate a team
1821 2014-04-09 16:19:22 <buZz> maybe just replace it with 'build'
1822 2014-04-09 16:19:36 <buZz> that will* develop..
1823 2014-04-09 16:20:02 <buZz> if its an existing team, you could say 'i am looking for developers to integrate in a team'
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1831 2014-04-09 16:24:38 <n0n00dz4u> testing
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1866 2014-04-09 16:47:51 <jouke> gmaxwell: I am afraid not (issue #4034)
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1868 2014-04-09 16:48:20 <gmaxwell> jouke: I was afraid of that. I guess I can just assume its the same issue and reproduce on my own.
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1870 2014-04-09 16:49:02 <n0n00dz4u> that might be a good idea
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1883 2014-04-09 16:53:37 <jouke> gmaxwell: it is quite a big and busy wallet. Could I try to reproduce it by setting up a new node with a ton of unconnectable connect= peers to speed up the process?
1884 2014-04-09 16:54:02 <gmaxwell> jouke: are you using addnode too on your node?
1885 2014-04-09 16:54:19 <jouke> no
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1887 2014-04-09 16:57:24 <gmaxwell> Might not be your issue then (or, rather, we may have another similar bugâ I'll have to look more)
1888 2014-04-09 16:58:32 <gmaxwell> Based on your description I tried the hypothesis that we were leaking sockets when a connection failed, and I found that case where we would. But I think it wouldn't get hit without addnodes. But perhaps there is another place.
1889 2014-04-09 16:59:03 <jouke> It is a big and busy wallet
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1891 2014-04-09 17:00:31 <jouke> Connected to multiple "local" nodes
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1939 2014-04-09 17:48:16 <wumpus> so many people that try to submit translation changes as pull instead of through transifex :/
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1953 2014-04-09 18:02:46 <chmod755> wumpus, for bitcoin core?
1954 2014-04-09 18:04:19 <wumpus> yes
1955 2014-04-09 18:04:39 <wumpus> almost every day we have to tell someone to go to transifex instead
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1957 2014-04-09 18:05:09 <wumpus> we should add something about translation in the README
1958 2014-04-09 18:05:18 <chmod755> wumpus, just wanted to suggest it
1959 2014-04-09 18:05:22 <chmod755> lol
1960 2014-04-09 18:05:29 wallet42 has joined
1961 2014-04-09 18:05:35 <wumpus> ... I somehow remembered that it was mentioned, but it's not
1962 2014-04-09 18:05:36 denisx has joined
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1964 2014-04-09 18:06:28 <wumpus> a git grep shows transifex only mentioned a few times in release notes (for 0.5.x :p) and the translation process
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1968 2014-04-09 18:08:42 <warren> wumpus: put a link to transifex in the client itself =)
1969 2014-04-09 18:08:46 Lexa has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1970 2014-04-09 18:08:57 <chmod755> to keep it simple
1971 2014-04-09 18:08:58 <chmod755> Translation
1972 2014-04-09 18:08:58 <chmod755> -------
1973 2014-04-09 18:08:58 <chmod755> See: https://www.transifex.com/projects/p/bitcoin/
1974 2014-04-09 18:09:30 Lexa has joined
1975 2014-04-09 18:09:50 <chmod755> we need a klingon translation to expand to outer space
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1982 2014-04-09 18:10:39 <warren> The block propagation latency to Qo'noS might be a bit bad.
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1985 2014-04-09 18:10:53 <chmod755> lol
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1988 2014-04-09 18:13:11 <wumpus> hehe
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2025 2014-04-09 18:38:50 <midnightmagic> devrandom: Hello. Re: your question, I found that the gverify complains about mismatch based on the form of the sigs. Older ruby fails to verify newer sigs. gverify also *doesn't* claim a mismatch at all times when the built release doesn't match the one being verified. (i.e. v0.9.1 vs. 0.9.1)
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2027 2014-04-09 18:39:43 <Anduck> hmmm, i'm using arch and pacman-updated to new bitcoin core (0.9.0.0), now ~/.bitcoin/bitcoin.conf isn't working...?
2028 2014-04-09 18:39:44 Subo1977_ has joined
2029 2014-04-09 18:39:54 <Anduck> more closely 'datadir' setting isn't working
2030 2014-04-09 18:40:36 <Anduck> has the datadir setting been removed from new client? works as argument tho
2031 2014-04-09 18:40:39 rdymac has joined
2032 2014-04-09 18:40:52 <wumpus> Anduck: right, setting the datadir in bitcoin.conf isn't working in 0.9.0 for bitcoin-qt, this is solved in master
2033 2014-04-09 18:41:40 <Anduck> is it working in the 0.9.1 or whatever patched openssl dep?
2034 2014-04-09 18:41:51 <wumpus> you can use -choosedatadir to choose a data directory (though then you need to move bitcoin.conf there too)
2035 2014-04-09 18:41:57 <wumpus> no, 0.9.1 is the same as 0.9.0
2036 2014-04-09 18:42:06 <wumpus> apart from openssl in the gitian builds
2037 2014-04-09 18:42:09 oda has joined
2038 2014-04-09 18:42:10 <Anduck> -choosedatadir or -datadir?
2039 2014-04-09 18:42:16 <Anduck> -datadir handle worked for me
2040 2014-04-09 18:42:18 <wumpus> exactly as I said
2041 2014-04-09 18:42:31 <wumpus> yes, that works too
2042 2014-04-09 18:42:37 <Anduck> alright =)
2043 2014-04-09 18:42:41 <wumpus> it always works on the command line
2044 2014-04-09 18:42:46 oda has quit (Client Quit)
2045 2014-04-09 18:42:55 <Anduck> ok. i'll compile it, then
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2047 2014-04-09 18:45:25 Beef has joined
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2049 2014-04-09 18:50:15 <wumpus> conversations on the mailing list get so easily derailed...
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2053 2014-04-09 18:51:21 <Anduck> i dont recall seeing any mention about that in the dev mailing list ...
2054 2014-04-09 18:51:31 <wumpus> about what?
2055 2014-04-09 18:51:41 <Anduck> about the -datadir =P
2056 2014-04-09 18:51:45 <wumpus> I tried to propose an idea, but as usual, bad idea...
2057 2014-04-09 18:51:50 <Anduck> ahh
2058 2014-04-09 18:52:06 <wumpus> sometimes it seems impossible to do anything
2059 2014-04-09 18:52:16 <wumpus> no, not about the -datadir
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2085 2014-04-09 19:17:06 sd^^ has joined
2086 2014-04-09 19:17:44 <sd^^> Any chance someone can send me a few testnet coins so I can test things?
2087 2014-04-09 19:18:01 <sd^^> Address: mgLMSrn8mdxUhm8vXSV6UqqLwVGJHPUHHB
2088 2014-04-09 19:18:18 bitwyre_ has joined
2089 2014-04-09 19:18:48 <Ademan> sd^^: there are a few faucets available on the wiki
2090 2014-04-09 19:19:45 <sd^^> Thanks Ademan. I didn't even think faucets still existed
2091 2014-04-09 19:19:59 <Ademan> sd^^: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Testnet
2092 2014-04-09 19:20:01 bitwyre has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2093 2014-04-09 19:20:06 <dinosaurs> hey I am trying to get bitcoin wallet to work properly on windows
2094 2014-04-09 19:20:09 <dinosaurs> what am I doing wrong here?
2095 2014-04-09 19:20:10 <Ademan> np, there's a couple listed in the "external links"
2096 2014-04-09 19:20:13 <dinosaurs> here is the error popup
2097 2014-04-09 19:20:14 <dinosaurs> http://imgur.com/7tRnz45
2098 2014-04-09 19:20:21 bitwyre_ has quit (Client Quit)
2099 2014-04-09 19:21:10 <Ademan> dinosaurs: I'm no expert but that looks like a shock picture...
2100 2014-04-09 19:21:24 <Ademan> gmaxwell: you or any op available to kick?
2101 2014-04-09 19:21:46 <jcorgan> was kicked from #bitcoin
2102 2014-04-09 19:22:17 lnovy_ has joined
2103 2014-04-09 19:22:26 espringe has quit (Quit: espringe)
2104 2014-04-09 19:22:52 <Ademan> wow that hostmask
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2108 2014-04-09 19:28:17 <midnightmagic> mode * +b *!*@*.br
2109 2014-04-09 19:28:23 <Ademan> midnightmagic: haha
2110 2014-04-09 19:30:33 <sipa> wumpus: present?
2111 2014-04-09 19:30:59 Cray-on- has joined
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2114 2014-04-09 19:33:07 <wumpus> yes
2115 2014-04-09 19:33:24 <sipa> wumpus: are you up to date with the "committed utxo" idea?
2116 2014-04-09 19:34:17 <Cray-on-> so, what happens if i lower the max connections from the standard 125
2117 2014-04-09 19:34:20 <wumpus> I know what the idea is, and that it allows for validating the utxo at every block (thus, starting later in the chain and be sure that your utxo is correct), but I thought it wasn't entirely practical?
2118 2014-04-09 19:34:23 <Cray-on-> to say 25-50
2119 2014-04-09 19:34:29 Milanito has joined
2120 2014-04-09 19:34:30 <Cray-on-> what does it actually do?
2121 2014-04-09 19:34:38 <sipa> Cray-on-: you
2122 2014-04-09 19:34:46 <sipa> Cray-on-: you'll have at most 25-50 connections
2123 2014-04-09 19:34:57 <Cray-on-> alright, i kinda figured that
2124 2014-04-09 19:35:04 <Cray-on-> but what does aid connections do
2125 2014-04-09 19:35:08 <Cray-on-> said
2126 2014-04-09 19:35:15 <sipa> be connected to other nodes
2127 2014-04-09 19:35:24 <wumpus> it will not accept incoming connections anymore if there are that amount of connections and more try to connect
2128 2014-04-09 19:35:28 <sipa> strengthening the connection graph of the network
2129 2014-04-09 19:35:38 <sipa> there's a cost to that
2130 2014-04-09 19:35:44 jazper_ has joined
2131 2014-04-09 19:36:43 <Cray-on-> yeah so what does that mean for me
2132 2014-04-09 19:36:49 gorran has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2133 2014-04-09 19:36:59 <Cray-on-> say i run 25 connections, what difference will i see
2134 2014-04-09 19:37:00 <sipa> more bandwidth, perhaps, if nodes actually connect to you
2135 2014-04-09 19:37:01 ericmuyser has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2136 2014-04-09 19:37:03 <sipa> none
2137 2014-04-09 19:37:13 jazper- has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2138 2014-04-09 19:37:15 <sipa> a bit higher memory usage
2139 2014-04-09 19:37:22 <Cray-on-> shouldnt it be lower?
2140 2014-04-09 19:37:25 <sipa> no
2141 2014-04-09 19:37:29 <sipa> oh
2142 2014-04-09 19:37:33 <sipa> if you reduce it to 25
2143 2014-04-09 19:37:43 <sipa> well, all depends on how many connections you actually get
2144 2014-04-09 19:38:04 <sipa> if you're not online frequently, or have firewall issues, you simply won't get incoming connections, and it makes no difference
2145 2014-04-09 19:38:16 <Cray-on-> that won't be an issue
2146 2014-04-09 19:38:37 <sipa> wumpus: so the idea is having a merkle tree of the utxo set, and commit its root hash to the coinbase of blocks (or embedded in some transaction, ...), which allows you to validate the hash of the UTXO using an SPV trust assumption
2147 2014-04-09 19:39:09 <maaku> wumpus: it's quite practical
2148 2014-04-09 19:39:14 <Cray-on-> and listen=0 is that it doesnt accept RPC-calls right?
2149 2014-04-09 19:39:18 <maaku> script -> coins may not be however
2150 2014-04-09 19:39:20 <sipa> wumpus: if you make that UTXO set per txid, you can use it for bootstrapping a full node (you'd give up the zero trust assumption in history, and replace it with SPV trust) without downloading and processing full history
2151 2014-04-09 19:39:46 <sipa> wumpus: if you make that UTXO set per txid, you can provide compact proofs to lightweight clients about their balance (but with very bad privacy)
2152 2014-04-09 19:39:53 <sipa> eh, per scriptPubKey
2153 2014-04-09 19:40:17 <maaku> you can also do cool things like stateless mining (attach utxo proofs to mempool transactions & txn messages)
2154 2014-04-09 19:40:35 <sipa> so, if there would be a softfork that adds a per-script UTXO tree (maaku has been working on this), you can have a safe P2P message for this even
2155 2014-04-09 19:41:07 <sipa> wumpus: i bring it up because you suggest it as an PRC on the mailing list, but it could be even done at the P2P level then (i.e., without needing to trust whom you're asking it to)
2156 2014-04-09 19:41:08 beachandbytes has joined
2157 2014-04-09 19:42:20 <sipa> which is actually better than SPV today, as a node can lie to you by hiding a coin you received
2158 2014-04-09 19:42:26 <wumpus> sipa: right, sounds useful, so you can start bootstrapping a full node at the end, and keep only a fixed amount of block data instead of everything from the genesis
2159 2014-04-09 19:42:28 <sipa> with such a queryable UTXO set, it can't
2160 2014-04-09 19:42:34 <deego> Trying to upgrade to 0.9.1, but unfortunately, it seems to require GLIBC_2.15 or 2.14, whereas debian stable's libc is at 2.13 :(
2161 2014-04-09 19:42:44 <sipa> wumpus: *keeping* block data is entirely independent of this
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2164 2014-04-09 19:43:02 <sipa> wumpus: you still need raw block data for a node that wants to bootstrap with zero-trust in history
2165 2014-04-09 19:43:37 <sipa> wumpus: and you can delete block data already safely (except we didn't implement it because there is no protocol extension for saying that you miss part of the data)
2166 2014-04-09 19:43:38 <maaku> deego: build from source :(
2167 2014-04-09 19:44:05 <sipa> wumpus: committed UTXO allow bootstrapping a node without *seeing* history (with lower security)
2168 2014-04-09 19:44:09 <wumpus> sipa: define 'safely'... it'd certainly mess with wallet rescans, at this point :)
2169 2014-04-09 19:44:27 <sipa> wumpus: oh, i consider wallets entire separate - talking about nodes here
2170 2014-04-09 19:44:41 <sipa> wumpus: and it can't provide wallet history, only current state
2171 2014-04-09 19:44:52 <wumpus> okay, yes if you have the wallet disabled you can throw away blocks as soon as you get them
2172 2014-04-09 19:45:04 <wumpus> after updating the utxo
2173 2014-04-09 19:45:07 <sipa> well, you can do that now too, but you won't be able to rescan, obviously
2174 2014-04-09 19:45:29 <sipa> so there are 3 reasons why bitcoin core today needs full block data
2175 2014-04-09 19:45:37 <deego> maaku: Ah, thanks (duh!)
2176 2014-04-09 19:45:40 <sipa> 1) reorganizations (but those aren't very deep usually)
2177 2014-04-09 19:45:43 <sipa> 2) rescans
2178 2014-04-09 19:45:46 <sipa> 3) serving to other nodes
2179 2014-04-09 19:45:50 <wumpus> yes
2180 2014-04-09 19:46:09 <sipa> 1) can be solved by just keeping the most reason few 100 blocks
2181 2014-04-09 19:46:17 jazper_ is now known as jazper-
2182 2014-04-09 19:46:21 <sipa> 2) can be solved by ignoring wallets
2183 2014-04-09 19:46:24 jazper- has quit (Changing host)
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2186 2014-04-09 19:46:29 <wumpus> indeed, that's what I meant with 'keep a fixed amount of block data'
2187 2014-04-09 19:46:50 <gmaxwell> (3) spends mostly of its bytes sending the most recent 2000 blocks or so. (which is why I think (1) should be more like 2000 just to be extra sure, and because the data is needed for (3)) :)
2188 2014-04-09 19:46:51 <sipa> 3) needs a protocol extension to advertize which ranges of blocks you are willing to serve
2189 2014-04-09 19:46:54 chairman_meow has joined
2190 2014-04-09 19:46:59 <chairman_meow> what is the announce key public key?
2191 2014-04-09 19:47:58 <sipa> wumpus: anyway, to be clear, these are two mostly independent ideas with independent use cases (per-txid UTXO merkle commitments, and per-scriptPubKey UTXO merkle commitments), and both add significant cost to full nodes, and not both may be worth it
2192 2014-04-09 19:47:59 <wumpus> but yes the commit to utxo set idea sounds good
2193 2014-04-09 19:48:00 <Ademan> So is there any renewed energy in wanting to ditch OpenSSL following this heartbleed shenannigans?
2194 2014-04-09 19:48:06 <deego> Is it same to use the --with-incompatible-bdb option when configuring? (Debian's default bdb is 5.1, not 4.8)
2195 2014-04-09 19:48:14 <sipa> Ademan: that energy was always there
2196 2014-04-09 19:48:39 <sipa> deego: if you don't mind wallets that are incompatible with versions built using a different bdb, it is safe
2197 2014-04-09 19:49:09 <sipa> chairman_meow: no idea what you're talking about
2198 2014-04-09 19:49:32 <wumpus> Ademan: ditch openssl would be a matter of not using the wallet GUI, don't use RPC SSL and use sipa's library for ecdsa
2199 2014-04-09 19:49:43 <maaku> fwiw, my thinking these days is that per-block scriptPubKey commitments would be enough, and much more performant
2200 2014-04-09 19:49:43 <deego> sipa: thanks.
2201 2014-04-09 19:49:49 <chairman_meow> sipa: the key when announcing upgrades,
2202 2014-04-09 19:50:05 <chairman_meow> For example, when a security flaw is found.
2203 2014-04-09 19:50:15 <sipa> maaku: interesting
2204 2014-04-09 19:50:18 <maaku> with a 'superblock' commitment every 144 blocks or so, which aggergates the last interval of blocks
2205 2014-04-09 19:50:35 <chairman_meow> The message at the bottome that says something like "Uprade to version xx for secuirty"
2206 2014-04-09 19:50:38 <sipa> maaku: maybe combine it with backreferences :p
2207 2014-04-09 19:50:40 espringe has joined
2208 2014-04-09 19:50:55 <sipa> chairman_meow: which bottom? which program?
2209 2014-04-09 19:51:09 <chairman_meow> sipa: the bitcoin client
2210 2014-04-09 19:51:13 <sipa> chairman_meow: bitcoin core?
2211 2014-04-09 19:51:19 <chairman_meow> it's called a specific name, I just forgot
2212 2014-04-09 19:51:22 <sipa> you're talking about netowkr alerts?
2213 2014-04-09 19:51:28 <wumpus> sipa: thanks, so there are two kinds of UTXO commitments, I didn't know, that makes it harder to come up with a reasonable solution that works for everyone
2214 2014-04-09 19:51:34 <chairman_meow> sipa: yes :)
2215 2014-04-09 19:51:34 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Yes, I think he means the alert key
2216 2014-04-09 19:51:44 <Ademan> wumpus: my understanding is libsecp256k1 isn't "there" yet, and "don't use SSL" isn't exactly an acceptable response to the situation imho. How does the GUI depend on OpenSSL though?
2217 2014-04-09 19:52:03 <maaku> wumpus: yeah. we "need" txid-to-utxo commitments more though, since those are central to validation
2218 2014-04-09 19:52:08 rnvk_ has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2219 2014-04-09 19:52:15 <maaku> scriptpubkey-to-utxo just helps out lite wallet apps
2220 2014-04-09 19:52:27 <sipa> wumpus: there are more use cases for UTXO commitments, such a fraud proofs and O(1) trusted storage validation (ask amiller, it's mostly theoretical)
2221 2014-04-09 19:52:49 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|chairman_meow: 04fc9702847840aaf195de8442ebecedf5b095cdbb9bc716bda9110971b28a49e0ead8564ff0db22209e0374782c093bb899692d524e9d6a6956e7c5ecbcd68284
2222 2014-04-09 19:53:14 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|That's mainnet. The testnet alert key is 04302390343f91cc401d56d68b123028bf52e5fca1939df127f63c6467cdf9c8e2c14b61104cf817d0b780da337893ecc4aaff1309e536162dabbdb45200ca2b0a
2223 2014-04-09 19:53:24 <maaku> sipa amiller: "O(1) trusted storage validation" ?
2224 2014-04-09 19:53:24 <chairman_meow> michagogo|cloud: thanks, i'll put that on the wiki
2225 2014-04-09 19:53:34 <sipa> maaku: #bitcoin-wizards
2226 2014-04-09 19:53:34 <maaku> is that the storage-less mining, or something else?
2227 2014-04-09 19:53:38 <maaku> k
2228 2014-04-09 19:54:08 <wumpus> Ademan: payment requests can be requested over ssl
2229 2014-04-09 19:54:11 <amiller> maaku, yes, O(1) storage full validation is a description of my bitcointalk post or the bitcoin example in my popl paper
2230 2014-04-09 19:54:17 <amiller> maaku, it's safe for mining, because it's still full validation
2231 2014-04-09 19:54:26 <Ademan> wumpus: payment protocol?
2232 2014-04-09 19:54:36 <amiller> but you don't need hardly any storage on the validator at all
2233 2014-04-09 19:54:47 <wumpus> Ademan: and sipa's library is certainly 'there', though AFAIK there is not an easy way to use it with bitcoin yet
2234 2014-04-09 19:55:28 <Ademan> wumpus: for one thing it's my understanding it doesn't have constant time signing (or verification) meaning it's vulnerable to timing attacks
2235 2014-04-09 19:55:43 hearn has quit (Quit: hearn)
2236 2014-04-09 19:56:05 <wumpus> Ademan: you asked about whether it's possible to ditch OpenSSL, I'm not saying that what you get back is actually more secure
2237 2014-04-09 19:56:21 <sipa> Ademan: OpenSSL doesn't have constant time signing either
2238 2014-04-09 19:56:39 <sipa> Ademan: and until recently (and maybe still) is was much worse at it than my library
2239 2014-04-09 19:56:45 <wumpus> sipa: hah!
2240 2014-04-09 19:56:49 <sipa> (that is, assuming neither has any unknown bugs)
2241 2014-04-09 19:56:53 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Heh, there's 0.001 BTC out there for Gavin or Satoshi to spend
2242 2014-04-09 19:57:04 <sipa> i'm certainly not going to claim that my library is bug free
2243 2014-04-09 19:57:23 <sipa> just that it's designed in a way that should remove most timing leaks (but not all)
2244 2014-04-09 19:57:33 JyZyXEL has joined
2245 2014-04-09 19:57:38 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|(or whoever else has the alert key -- is there anyone else?)
2246 2014-04-09 19:58:03 <sipa> wumpus: i have a branch to make bitcoin use libsecp256k1
2247 2014-04-09 19:58:16 <sipa> but it needs some autotools love
2248 2014-04-09 19:58:19 <sipa> (or hate)
2249 2014-04-09 19:58:20 <chairman_meow> at some point, the blockchain will become unruly big.
2250 2014-04-09 19:58:38 <sipa> chairman_meow: oh noes!
2251 2014-04-09 19:58:41 <wumpus> deego: btw, 0.9.1 has static executables that should work with those older glibc's
2252 2014-04-09 19:59:11 <Ademan> sipa: ah interesting
2253 2014-04-09 19:59:19 <wumpus> sipa: I don't dare touch the build system, theuni always gets mad at me :)
2254 2014-04-09 19:59:28 <Ademan> wumpus: ah, I was not in fact concerned with "possible" but "desirable"
2255 2014-04-09 19:59:58 <wumpus> sipa: nah, kidding, I could take a look at it, what is the branch?
2256 2014-04-09 20:00:51 <sipa> wumpus: https://github.com/sipa/bitcoin/commits/libsecp has the autotools attemp
2257 2014-04-09 20:01:15 <sipa> wumpus: https://github.com/sipa/bitcoin/commits/secp256k1 has the integration in bitcoin (but is much older, may need rebasing)
2258 2014-04-09 20:01:27 <coryfields> wumpus: i don't get mad at you, it's just black magic with lots of traps i've already fallen into once before :)
2259 2014-04-09 20:01:38 <sipa> wumpus: cfields told me a workaround using CFLAGS and -fPIE iirc for the autotools problems
2260 2014-04-09 20:02:11 <sipa> for 0.10, i think having some experimental build option that enables libsecp256k1 would be fine, but no release binaries using it
2261 2014-04-09 20:02:20 rnvk has joined
2262 2014-04-09 20:02:23 <coryfields> sipa: if you're moving towards integration on that, i can start cleaning up the cflags as needed
2263 2014-04-09 20:02:52 <sipa> coryfields: i have little time myself now, no hurries (unless others want to push this forward)
2264 2014-04-09 20:03:18 <coryfields> sipa: fyi, the big-picture issue is that we assume that everything is c++. So CFLAGS don't get passed down correctly.
2265 2014-04-09 20:03:25 ConvivialMatt has joined
2266 2014-04-09 20:03:28 <wumpus> well if it is only autotools work left it makes sense to push it forward, the sooner it makes it into master the more testing it will get (or so I assume)
2267 2014-04-09 20:03:32 <sipa> for actually making bitcoin use libsecp256k1, i want 1) BIP62 making noncanonical encodings illegal and not just nonstandard 2) more testing/auditing
2268 2014-04-09 20:03:52 <wumpus> as experimental option, obviously
2269 2014-04-09 20:04:15 <sipa> coryfields: got it
2270 2014-04-09 20:04:34 <sipa> wumpus: i assume you'll be at the amsterday conference?
2271 2014-04-09 20:05:08 <wumpus> sipa: yes I intend to
2272 2014-04-09 20:06:27 <JackH> hey when is this again?
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2275 2014-04-09 20:07:30 <wumpus> may 14-16 IIRC
2276 2014-04-09 20:07:40 <sipa> wumpus: i'll try to be there too; would love to meet you in person :)
2277 2014-04-09 20:08:18 Milanito has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
2278 2014-04-09 20:08:23 <sipa> funny that i've met jgarzik, gmaxwell and gavinandresen who live in the US, but not you who lives basically next door
2279 2014-04-09 20:08:43 wc- has joined
2280 2014-04-09 20:09:03 <wumpus> indeed :)
2281 2014-04-09 20:09:39 <wc-> hi all, i am trying to incorporate generating receiving addresses for customers into a website, i have a deterministic wallet created with armory (but could use any wallet to create), and the site runs on node
2282 2014-04-09 20:09:56 <wc-> there is no need to programatically send btc, so i wanted to have a completely offline wallet for receiving
2283 2014-04-09 20:10:13 <wc-> where the software generates a new address for each user deterministically
2284 2014-04-09 20:10:26 <maaku> wc-: BIP32, look at pycoin
2285 2014-04-09 20:10:27 <wc-> im kind of confused on how to do that though, is this something the bitcoin core or some node package could do?
2286 2014-04-09 20:10:35 <sipa> wc-: if armory is generates the address, i guess you'll need armory for checking receives
2287 2014-04-09 20:10:55 <wc-> i can use any wallet software for the actual wallet, doesnt have to be armory
2288 2014-04-09 20:11:01 <sipa> you need some software that can do watch-only wallets
2289 2014-04-09 20:11:30 <wc-> this seems like a use-case people have done before, but im not sure what kind of software to look for
2290 2014-04-09 20:11:48 <tjopper> wc- dig into the armory documentation, you will find your answer there
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2293 2014-04-09 20:13:20 <deego> <wumpus> deego: btw, 0.9.1 has static executables that should work with those older glibc's <<=== wumpus: The one I downloaded from bitcoin.org didn't. :(
2294 2014-04-09 20:13:24 <wc-> ya if i could just get armory to generate the first 5k addresses or something
2295 2014-04-09 20:13:28 <wc-> id be fine
2296 2014-04-09 20:13:43 <sipa> it has deterministic address generation, no need to pregenerate
2297 2014-04-09 20:13:48 <deego> otoh, it seems to be building fine atm. :)
2298 2014-04-09 20:14:40 <wumpus> deego: certain? there were no bitcoind.static / bitcoin-cli.static ?
2299 2014-04-09 20:14:43 <deego> Why is debian stable considered old? ;-)
2300 2014-04-09 20:14:52 <deego> wumpus: Ah, let me look.
2301 2014-04-09 20:15:08 <wumpus> deego: if so, something must have gone wrong with packaging
2302 2014-04-09 20:15:37 <deego> wumpus: You are right. There's a static for qt and cli. OTOH, none for bitcoind ?
2303 2014-04-09 20:15:44 <deego> Is bitcoind now called bitcoin-cli ?
2304 2014-04-09 20:16:00 <wumpus> no there is no static for qt
2305 2014-04-09 20:16:04 <sipa> the RPC client part, yes
2306 2014-04-09 20:16:08 <sipa> the daemon part, no
2307 2014-04-09 20:16:17 <deego> wumpus: ah, true. that's the one missing.
2308 2014-04-09 20:16:23 <chairman_meow> what other cool things can I do with a block chain that isnt currency related or voting related?
2309 2014-04-09 20:16:57 <chairman_meow> it's fun to decentralize things.
2310 2014-04-09 20:17:01 <chairman_meow> or is this off topic?
2311 2014-04-09 20:17:06 <wumpus> statically linking qt on linux would be ... perverse, qt relies on all kinds of things like opengl which you really don't want to link statically
2312 2014-04-09 20:17:30 <vetch> before anybody else thinks they are going insane, Github is having problems at the moment
2313 2014-04-09 20:17:32 <sipa> chairman_meow: voting is certainly a very bad idea (unless you want to have people pay per vote)
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2315 2014-04-09 20:18:29 <sipa> chairman_meow: and decentralization has a large cost; it's not really worth it for that many things
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2320 2014-04-09 20:19:53 <chairman_meow> sipa: so I guess it has to be something that the gov't will want to stop
2321 2014-04-09 20:20:22 <sipa> chairman_meow: #bitcoin please :)
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2323 2014-04-09 20:22:40 <wumpus> maaku: so https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/3977 is introducing UTXO commitments?
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2325 2014-04-09 20:23:28 <wumpus> (I've seen that pull before, but I didn't understand what it did exactly)
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2327 2014-04-09 20:25:19 <sd^^> Is a parallel make unsafe with bitcoind? The build instructions don't mention -j
2328 2014-04-09 20:25:41 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|sd^^: I don't think it's unsafe, no
2329 2014-04-09 20:25:54 <wumpus> sd^^: works fine
2330 2014-04-09 20:26:12 <wumpus> mind that you need a *lot* of memory
2331 2014-04-09 20:26:25 <sd^^> What's a lot?
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2333 2014-04-09 20:27:09 <wumpus> I suggest just trying out what works for you
2334 2014-04-09 20:27:59 <sd^^> I wasn't closely watching but the non-parallel build seems to be using about half a gig max
2335 2014-04-09 20:28:27 <sd^^> Maybe a gig on some compiles
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2338 2014-04-09 20:31:47 <wumpus> yes, that's also my experience (with gcc), so multiply that with the parallelism factor and you end up with quite a lot
2339 2014-04-09 20:31:54 <maaku> wumpus: no, it's just a first step towards that
2340 2014-04-09 20:32:28 <maaku> that's the mechanism by which I plan to do utxo commitments (but also, backref commitments & merged mining 2.0, hence the generic pull request)
2341 2014-04-09 20:32:42 <wumpus> maaku: okay
2342 2014-04-09 20:32:54 <deego> Stupid question #n: It looks like after building bitcoin from source, I can purge libdb4.8.* safely. (?)
2343 2014-04-09 20:33:11 <maaku> deego: only if you did a static build
2344 2014-04-09 20:34:08 <deego> maaku: Ah. How do I do that?
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2348 2014-04-09 20:37:39 <deego> heh, I had purged libdb.*, and started bitcoin. Hasn't crashed yet. :)
2349 2014-04-09 20:37:49 <deego> I guess it will if I try to send some btc? :)
2350 2014-04-09 20:38:27 <kdomanski> try shutting it down and restarting
2351 2014-04-09 20:38:36 <kdomanski> if it works, then it works
2352 2014-04-09 20:39:37 <wumpus> deego: if you linked against 5.1 you can indeed remove 4.8
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2355 2014-04-09 20:40:55 <wumpus> as for also removing -5.1,that should be safe but you can never restart it, dynamic libraries that are still opened by a running executable won't really be removed until the last usage goes away
2356 2014-04-09 20:41:03 <deego> wumpus: Oh, I linked against 4.8 afaict.
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2359 2014-04-09 20:41:54 <wumpus> (but it's a pretty pointless experiment)
2360 2014-04-09 20:41:56 <deego> kdomanski, wumpus: I tried: ./configure --disable-ipv6 --without-miniupnpc --enable-hardening, so I guess this means it picked up libdb4.8.
2361 2014-04-09 20:44:44 <deego> (I'm a bit uncomfortable installing something from debian oldstable, whose security support is ended. :-) )
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2365 2014-04-09 20:45:07 <Luke-Jr> any thoughts on whether this should be backported to 0.8.7?
2366 2014-04-09 20:45:09 <Luke-Jr> * d8b4b49 (origin-pull/2910/head) Don't store or send side-chain blocks lower than last checkpoint.
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2368 2014-04-09 20:46:09 <wumpus> deego: I always use --with-incompatible-bdb for non-gitian builds
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2370 2014-04-09 20:47:39 <deego> wumpus: I see
2371 2014-04-09 20:47:40 <wumpus> deego: then again, I don't care about compatibility of the wallet with older bdb versions, it's easy enough to convert them if it is really required
2372 2014-04-09 20:49:33 <wc-> so it seems like https://github.com/bitcoinjs/bitcoinjs-lib can generate HD wallets
2373 2014-04-09 20:49:57 <wc-> so if i generated an hd wallet with that, i could import it into a client to view locally
2374 2014-04-09 20:50:22 <wc-> ughh, i wish armory or electrum had some api devs could use
2375 2014-04-09 20:50:23 <Luke-Jr> wc-: Electrum maybe
2376 2014-04-09 20:50:44 <wc-> i guess i didnt realize these electrum or armory wallets are their own implementations of deterministic wallets
2377 2014-04-09 20:51:11 <wumpus> eh, if your client uses the same format for HD wallets as that lib (BIP 0032) it would work
2378 2014-04-09 20:51:12 <wc-> trying to keep this as simple and safe as possible, i just need a function on the server to generate a new receiving address for a watch only wallet
2379 2014-04-09 20:51:24 <wc-> so the onyl thing my server has is a watch only pub key
2380 2014-04-09 20:51:37 <wc-> anything beyond that takes place on an offline wallet
2381 2014-04-09 20:51:40 <abrkn> wc: bitcoinjslib is under heavy dev by wei, justcoin, darkwalelt and many more. it's admittedly shit, but looking at the speed at which we're making progress it'll be great
2382 2014-04-09 20:51:48 <wc-> no need for automatic withdrawals or anything fast
2383 2014-04-09 20:52:15 <wc-> i dont even need to show the balance of a receiving address, just need to show the address itself to a user haha
2384 2014-04-09 20:52:38 <wumpus> I'm fairly sure that electrum uses BIP 0032 these days, not sure about armory
2385 2014-04-09 20:52:58 <Luke-Jr> wc-: if you just need to show the address, you don't need a watch-only wallet..
2386 2014-04-09 20:53:04 <abrkn> bitcoinjs-lib passes all vectors, but we have code structure issues that could lead to all kinds of things
2387 2014-04-09 20:53:23 <abrkn> ^ of bip32, that is
2388 2014-04-09 20:53:41 <wc-> Luke-Jr my problem was i couldnt find a way to get armory to generate a thousand ( or x number of) receiving address
2389 2014-04-09 20:53:54 <wc-> if i could just get a list of addresses then i can load them in a db and assign them to users as needed
2390 2014-04-09 20:54:15 <abrkn> am i correct that bitcoind only has a heartbleed vulnerability in the sense that an attacker must have access to bitcoind rpc over ssl (over the internet)?
2391 2014-04-09 20:54:19 <wc-> i really dont need any functionality beyond that for now, i just couldnt figure out a way to get armory to generate a long list of receiving addresses for me
2392 2014-04-09 20:54:25 <Luke-Jr> wc-: personally, I'd probably look into using pycoin to generate addresses, then just import them on Bitcoin Core as-needed
2393 2014-04-09 20:54:37 <Luke-Jr> abrkn: right
2394 2014-04-09 20:54:44 <abrkn> Luke-Jr: soz zero?
2395 2014-04-09 20:54:48 <abrkn> *so
2396 2014-04-09 20:54:52 <wc-> ok so i could generate these offline, export the public receiving addresses in a csv or somethign to my server?
2397 2014-04-09 20:54:56 <Luke-Jr> abrkn: which, even if fixed, is still vulnerable to easy DDoS; so pretty much zero
2398 2014-04-09 20:55:09 <Luke-Jr> DoS*
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2400 2014-04-09 20:55:32 <abrkn> Luke-Jr: any reason to upgrade if we're on the build into which nospendzerochange was patched?
2401 2014-04-09 20:55:45 <Luke-Jr> wc-: pycoin can generate your addresses online
2402 2014-04-09 20:55:59 <Luke-Jr> abrkn: that's too vague
2403 2014-04-09 20:56:21 <wc-> oh i see: "The library implements a deterministic wallet that will securly generate Bitcoin addresses compliant with BIP0032."
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2405 2014-04-09 20:56:26 <Luke-Jr> if it's just bitcoind on a *dedicated server*, no urgent need to upgrade
2406 2014-04-09 20:56:44 <abrkn> Luke-Jr: i saw doglas was patching up to 0.9 for "txmall fixes", but for all i know there are no fixes apart from not spending your own zero conf change?
2407 2014-04-09 20:56:56 <wc-> what should i use to generate the wallet itself? it sounds like armory uses its own version of a wallet
2408 2014-04-09 20:57:00 <Luke-Jr> abrkn: there were some
2409 2014-04-09 20:57:11 <abrkn> Luke-Jr: such as? atm we're running into issues where we just dont have inputs
2410 2014-04-09 20:57:14 <Luke-Jr> abrkn: pycoin can do it I think
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2412 2014-04-09 20:58:08 <abrkn> Luke-Jr: it "resolves" as soon as we have confs on change outputs, but causes.... complaints
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2415 2014-04-09 20:58:49 <abrkn> much like in my personal wallet on blockchain.info. consistently cannot send fuds because i have "unconfirmed" balance
2416 2014-04-09 21:00:23 <abrkn> put in 10 btc. pay 0.001 btc for a service. now im stuck with zero balance until my tx is included in a block
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2418 2014-04-09 21:01:15 <maaku> abrkn: split your outputs
2419 2014-04-09 21:01:55 <abrkn> maaku: yep, i just send send myself lots of smaller outputs, but for a novice user this sucks
2420 2014-04-09 21:02:34 <abrkn> maaku: i was thinking of a feature where the wallet would send change in several outputs, but i guess as usual someone's already thought about this years ago
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2430 2014-04-09 21:09:17 <andytoshi> thoughts are cheap, afaik nobody has implemented this yet..
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2434 2014-04-09 21:11:17 <abrkn> more of a hack
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2436 2014-04-09 21:12:59 <gmaxwell> any solution will be a long mess of hurestics, which is kinda demotivating.. there is no one simple obviously correct way.
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2440 2014-04-09 21:15:26 <abrkn> gmaxwell: what would be a "perfect solution" to the whole zero change issue, then? if i spend cash, then the casher can spend that cash right away without any clearing
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2443 2014-04-09 21:16:18 <abrkn> gmaxwell: feels like receiving fake notes as change in a dark lit room. you want to spend it again fast to make it someone elses problem
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2540 2014-04-09 22:34:46 <Ademan> Does the OpenSSL heartbeat vulnerability affect anything besides the payment protocol and RPC for bitcoind/bitcoin-qt ?
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2543 2014-04-09 22:36:07 <phantomcircuit> Ademan, no
2544 2014-04-09 22:36:08 <gmaxwell> In Bitcoin core we don't use SSL in any other way. There are other implementations of Bitcoin that do things like auto software updates or use SSL in their network protocol (to custom servers) which might be impacted. But I don't have more details.
2545 2014-04-09 22:36:26 <gmaxwell> And of course bitcoin web services may be leaking their SSL keys or user credentials.
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2549 2014-04-09 22:37:32 <Ademan> ok that's what I thought, I just wanted to be certain
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2551 2014-04-09 22:38:08 <edcba> once again with bitcoin when trusting only yourself you are more secure !
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2553 2014-04-09 22:39:35 ellendegenerate is now known as chairman_meo
2554 2014-04-09 22:39:37 chairman_meo is now known as chairman_meow
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2562 2014-04-09 22:43:42 <GAit> does anyone know if the firmware of the trazor is open or just the emulator?
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2592 2014-04-09 23:14:05 <coryfields> warren: i managed to get c++ functions wrapped
2593 2014-04-09 23:14:12 <coryfields> cleaning up and testing now
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2609 2014-04-09 23:41:12 <warren> coryfields: awesome!
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2615 2014-04-09 23:44:41 <kryydf> #bitcoin-ops is invite only. Can someone please fix OP andytoshi, he bans me for no reason
2616 2014-04-09 23:44:51 roconnor has joined
2617 2014-04-09 23:45:09 <sipa> kryydf: complaining about it here will get you banned here too
2618 2014-04-09 23:45:22 <kryydf> sipa, so where is the right place then?
2619 2014-04-09 23:45:28 <sipa> not here; i don't care
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2622 2014-04-09 23:48:34 <chairman_meow> kryydf: unbanned
2623 2014-04-09 23:48:52 <chairman_meow> apparently your joke was misinterpreted
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2628 2014-04-09 23:54:41 <kdomanski> is there a way to test changes on configurations used by pull tester other than creating a pull request?
2629 2014-04-09 23:54:56 <sipa> by running pulltester yourself :)
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2632 2014-04-09 23:57:31 <kdomanski> isn't that a private service?
2633 2014-04-09 23:57:44 <sipa> no
2634 2014-04-09 23:58:00 <sipa> part of it is scripts that are part of the bitcoin source tree
2635 2014-04-09 23:58:25 nsh has joined
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2637 2014-04-09 23:58:58 <kdomanski> can you give me a URL or something?
2638 2014-04-09 23:59:36 <gmaxwell> jouke: are you using a socks proxy?