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  63 2014-04-17 00:57:30 <bitmonster> hello
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  65 2014-04-17 00:58:08 <bitmonster> I need to understand how u acces your wall after u shut it down
  66 2014-04-17 00:58:14 <bitmonster> what is the command
  67 2014-04-17 00:58:20 <EasyAt> bitcoind
  68 2014-04-17 00:58:28 <bitmonster> I do not see an executable file
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  72 2014-04-17 00:59:14 <bitmonster> just type bitcoind at the promt
  73 2014-04-17 00:59:17 <EasyAt> bitmonster: Probably a better question for #bitcoin.  This is the development channel
  74 2014-04-17 00:59:41 <bitmonster> ok I will try thank u
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 191 2014-04-17 02:28:03 <GAit> reading bitcoinstats logs is very very instructive/informative
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 235 2014-04-17 03:08:55 <GAit> about stealth addresses, isn't there a security issue in publishing your master public? Theoretical issues with quantum computing?
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 244 2014-04-17 03:14:10 <vetch> GAit: if ecdsa is broken we are screwed already by address reuse.
 245 2014-04-17 03:14:33 <GAit> yeah but we can avoid that
 246 2014-04-17 03:14:43 <GAit> some wallets by default never reuse
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 249 2014-04-17 03:16:32 <vetch> the biggest wallet is probably blockchain.info, which never uses change addresses.
 250 2014-04-17 03:16:56 <GAit> vetch: what's your opinion on stealh addresses? if there's good reason to never reuse an address after it's public key is available to everyone then the same should apply to stealth addresses
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 252 2014-04-17 03:17:58 <GAit> just because bc.i doesn't do it properly doesn't mean we should lower the overall level
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 254 2014-04-17 03:22:55 <vetch> GAit: I don't know really. privacy is hard to come by with address reuse.
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 262 2014-04-17 03:24:52 <GAit> vetch: are you assuming people will continue to reuse? I think people will move off to more secure/private service, especially as they realize their history and future tx will be known by people that know the address
 263 2014-04-17 03:27:07 <GAit> and until we have everywhere hardware wallets I feel that average people will be targeted with lots malware spying their memory for keys
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 267 2014-04-17 03:30:20 <vetch> GAit: that happens now with blockchain.info. it's extremely easy to find people and their entire spending habits. this has been made clear and just nobody cares.
 268 2014-04-17 03:31:12 <GAit> nobody cares cause it works
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 270 2014-04-17 03:31:54 <PRab> GAit: It also doesn't have to be hardware wallets to protect the keys. It could also be something like an online multisignature oracle.
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 273 2014-04-17 03:33:15 <GAit> PRab: yeah, that's why i founded greenaddress but you can still have both for best results (eventually) :)
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 275 2014-04-17 03:33:38 <PRab> agreed, both is even better.
 276 2014-04-17 03:35:16 <GAit> vetch: don't you think people will learn when some zero day malware steals a lot of private keys?
 277 2014-04-17 03:35:34 <GAit> well, by steal keys i mean moves fund to some attacker address
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 283 2014-04-17 03:39:29 <vetch> oh constantly.
 284 2014-04-17 03:39:38 <vetch> doesn't mean people learn from it though.
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 286 2014-04-17 03:40:06 <vetch> inputs.io had all the warning signs but people still sent a million or so dollars to the person.
 287 2014-04-17 03:40:55 <GAit> inputs.io was somewhat slick wasn't it? was it just a bc.i clone or was it a 'black box' wallet?
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 299 2014-04-17 03:51:00 <GAit> I didn't realize the guy behind inputs.io also scammed ripple users
 300 2014-04-17 03:51:27 <GAit> oh and making all time high bets on just-dice too
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 305 2014-04-17 03:56:29 <vetch> GAit: yeah. basically a dodgy web wallet with absolutely no security to speak of. hosted on Linode of all places.
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 307 2014-04-17 03:57:52 <GAit> linode is on cloud, he said they owned the metal in his public announcement on reddit. Full of lies all over
 308 2014-04-17 03:58:07 <GAit> and he still hangs out in bitcointalk, i'm surprised
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 315 2014-04-17 04:05:21 <vetch> GAit: yes, according to the author there was multiple servers and endpoints to allow for maximum security. none of those existed of course, just a box on Linode.
 316 2014-04-17 04:05:40 <vetch> GAit: the more you read into it the shadier and more incompetent the author looks.
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 318 2014-04-17 04:08:30 <GAit> vetch: are you going to the conference in may?
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 320 2014-04-17 04:15:57 <GAit> sipa: gmaxwell, now both pycoin and bitcoinjs have pull requests for low 's' value, https://github.com/richardkiss/pycoin/pull/24 and https://github.com/bitcoinjs/bitcoinjs-lib/pull/135
 321 2014-04-17 04:16:16 <GAit> we should be starting using the low 's' value soon
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 377 2014-04-17 05:50:03 <EasyAt> Where can I find the wallet spec the reference client uses? I've been(am) searching promise
 378 2014-04-17 05:53:11 <EasyAt> magic numbers, offsets, and such
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 383 2014-04-17 06:03:28 <vetch> GAit: no, I don't have any desire to go to conferences.
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 385 2014-04-17 06:07:15 <GAit> vetch: who knows, maybe by the end of the first day i'll feel the same
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 406 2014-04-17 06:45:13 <vetch> GAit: I'm being sour, I'm sure it would be absolutely wonderful to be around so many people with similar interests
 407 2014-04-17 06:45:31 <vetch> GAit: if any of the core developers are around it would be a great opportunity to pick their brains
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 453 2014-04-17 08:03:38 <melvster> in a script with P2SH should the <pubKeyHash>  be big endian or little endian?
 454 2014-04-17 08:04:06 <melvster> hmmm i guess i can check an existing record
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 475 2014-04-17 08:35:39 <caedes> hi
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 509 2014-04-17 09:41:46 <melvster> caedes: hi! :)
 510 2014-04-17 09:41:51 <warren> wumpus: had a chance to update translations?  I'll test a new build with it when I wake up and dev roadmap can happen shortly after
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 528 2014-04-17 09:57:06 <Fproof_> The most simplest *provably fair Bitcoin Lottery,Guess a Card Game and s36 Lottery win up to 97.018BTC instantly. Automatic withdrawals http://bitly.com/P5wwix
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 544 2014-04-17 10:12:45 <wumpus> warren: no, not yet, don
 545 2014-04-17 10:13:05 <wumpus> 't know when I'll get around to it, but it will be some time today
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 548 2014-04-17 10:24:34 <petertodd> Due to the fee drop I'm getting a 100% success rate at double-spending unconfirmed: https://github.com/petertodd/replace-by-fee-tools
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 564 2014-04-17 10:34:33 <warren> m....
 565 2014-04-17 10:34:48 <warren> running master ...     "blocks" : 249602,
 566 2014-04-17 10:35:03 <warren> connected to several nodes ... and no incoming blocks are happening
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 569 2014-04-17 10:37:08 <warren> InvalidChainFound .... crap
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 594 2014-04-17 11:17:47 <greeniekin> hi, I was wondering if anyone knows if there is any libraries that allow a c++ app(users) to purchase bitcoins for micro transactions or what ever?
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 596 2014-04-17 11:19:02 <greeniekin> I know it is not inherit to bitcoin protocol but the exchanges. Just can not find anything about it
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 598 2014-04-17 11:24:50 <sipa> bitcoin is not intended for microtransactions, and "buying bitcoin for transactions" makes no sense
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 602 2014-04-17 11:27:10 <sipa> if you're talking about a library that would allow in-app purchases using bitcoin microtransactions... pretty sure that doesn't exist
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 619 2014-04-17 11:49:48 <wumpus> warren: new translations pushed...
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 661 2014-04-17 12:36:55 <melvster> how does the default client choose which output(s) to spend?
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 663 2014-04-17 12:38:42 <melvster> got it: http://bitcoinfees.com/
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 667 2014-04-17 12:41:54 <greeniekin> dis!~Greenie@220-244-249-214.static.tpgi.com.au|sipa, I know it is currency. Though it is a currency that is easy to transfer and manipulate. Think of a little championship where  a $5(equivalent in bitcoins) entrance fee and the winner takes the spoils it's easy to hold on to and transferto the winner. Without complications transfering money to bank accounts. being able to by bitcoins in app for this purpose would simply simplify things.
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 669 2014-04-17 12:44:18 <sipa> greeniekin|dis: fully agree, but it's off topic here
 670 2014-04-17 12:44:42 <sipa> (this channel is about the bitcoin protocol and implementations of it)
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 672 2014-04-17 12:46:17 <melvster> ahh here it is: http://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/1077/what-is-the-coin-selection-algorithm
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 674 2014-04-17 12:47:06 <greeniekin> dis!~Greenie@220-244-249-214.static.tpgi.com.au|sipa, sorry about that. Just have no idea where to look. Thought dev might be better than general.
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 951 2014-04-17 17:06:40 <graingert> :/
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 969 2014-04-17 17:32:51 <christophe> graingert: ??
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 995 2014-04-17 17:52:19 <jgarzik> SIGH
 996 2014-04-17 17:52:21 <jgarzik> https://twitter.com/dchest/status/456846544684081152
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 998 2014-04-17 17:53:58 <lianj> http://marc.info/?l=openbsd-cvs&m=139773689013690&w=2
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1003 2014-04-17 17:57:12 <robonerd> fight fight!
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1013 2014-04-17 18:01:51 <melik> hi
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1041 2014-04-17 18:46:49 <owowo> hello, do the ubuntu PPA ppl get the 0.9.1 update or shall I compile it myself?
1042 2014-04-17 18:47:17 <sipa> 0.9.1 and 0.9.0 are identical, except for the openssl version the release binary is compiled with
1043 2014-04-17 18:47:31 <sipa> as the ppa does not use the release binary, there is nothing changed
1044 2014-04-17 18:47:40 <owowo> I know, ok thx :)
1045 2014-04-17 18:48:49 <owowo> so for the PPA ppl there is no "heartbleed" just the annoying "Attention ..." message
1046 2014-04-17 18:50:39 <sipa> what attention message?
1047 2014-04-17 18:50:42 <vetch> owowo: the alerts are targeted at the version only, so there's no avoiding that
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1051 2014-04-17 18:50:57 <sipa> there was a network alert for heartbleed?
1052 2014-04-17 18:51:00 <vetch> yes
1053 2014-04-17 18:51:02 * sipa was unaware
1054 2014-04-17 18:51:02 <owowo> not attention but "URGENT: ,.."
1055 2014-04-17 18:51:10 ToaDy_lu has joined
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1057 2014-04-17 18:51:18 <vetch> sipa: https://bitcoin.org/en/alert/2014-04-11-heartbleed
1058 2014-04-17 18:51:34 <sipa> yes, i know about that
1059 2014-04-17 18:51:40 <vetch> the alert just gives sparse details and links to that page
1060 2014-04-17 18:51:45 <sipa> but i didn't know there was a network alert
1061 2014-04-17 18:51:48 <sipa> ok
1062 2014-04-17 18:52:38 <sipa> @later tell BlueMatt maybe we can update thr ppa anyway to 0.9.1 to get rid of the network alert message?
1063 2014-04-17 18:53:10 <sipa> ;;later tell Blackreign maybe we can update the ppa anyway to 0.9.1 to get rid of the network alert message?
1064 2014-04-17 18:53:10 <gribble> The operation succeeded.
1065 2014-04-17 18:53:19 <sipa> grr
1066 2014-04-17 18:53:48 <sipa> ;;later tell BlueMatt maybe we can upgrade the ppa anyway to 0.9.1 to gert rid of the network alert message
1067 2014-04-17 18:53:48 <gribble> The operation succeeded.
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1070 2014-04-17 18:54:19 <owowo> get a break and happy easter :)
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1074 2014-04-17 18:57:45 <Blackreign> np sipa, thanks for the awesome graphs
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1078 2014-04-17 19:00:21 [Author] has joined
1079 2014-04-17 19:01:17 <sipa> lol
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1085 2014-04-17 19:15:14 <Blackreign> :)
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1095 2014-04-17 19:31:59 hanti is now known as HANTI
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1099 2014-04-17 19:38:20 <sipa> Blackreign: i keep finding it funny how i'm recognized for a website i made 3 years ago and hardly touched since then :)
1100 2014-04-17 19:38:59 <Blackreign> its simply the best out there of its kind
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1114 2014-04-17 19:51:05 <Joric> check this out http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/239bj1/doublespending_unconfirmed_transactions_is_a_lot/
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1118 2014-04-17 19:54:24 <petertodd> Joric: just a concrete demo of what we've known for years
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1122 2014-04-17 19:55:39 <petertodd> that said, it's interestingly how having some replace-by-fee nodes in the network makes things like bumping fees on transactions a lot more reliable
1123 2014-04-17 19:55:59 <petertodd> also interesting how well the preferential peering code I wrote works
1124 2014-04-17 19:56:06 <Joric> so bitcoin vending machines/fastfoods/restaurants all that require 0 confirmations ARE vulnerable after all
1125 2014-04-17 19:56:15 <petertodd> they always have been
1126 2014-04-17 19:56:53 <jouke> 0 confirmations without checking fee rules
1127 2014-04-17 19:58:27 <petertodd> jouke: it's not a matter of fee rules: if there is *any* discrepency between what some miners consider standard and others don't, that discrepency can be exploited
1128 2014-04-17 19:59:26 VossArtesian has joined
1129 2014-04-17 19:59:33 <jouke> If the receiver is not aware of the discrepencies.
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1131 2014-04-17 19:59:41 <Joric> so what, how they will survive now, fastfoods can't force you to wait from 10 to hell knows how many minutes after you buy a sausage
1132 2014-04-17 19:59:52 <petertodd> jouke: yes, which is a highly fragile approach
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1135 2014-04-17 20:00:35 <petertodd> Joric: off-chain and micropayment hubs are two good solutions, as is escrowed green addresses, replace-by-fee scorched earth, etc. lots of solutions out there
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1143 2014-04-17 20:02:44 <Luke-Jr> petertodd: 0-confirm transactions are no *less* safe than someone walking out of the store with product unpaid.
1144 2014-04-17 20:03:29 <petertodd> Luke-Jr: indeed, which is safe enough in lots of real-world situations
1145 2014-04-17 20:03:47 <Joric> you normally dont walk out of a fastfood without paying
1146 2014-04-17 20:03:56 <petertodd> anyway, in-person immediate payments are just a small part of the value of the bitcoin system
1147 2014-04-17 20:04:15 <petertodd> Joric: think resturants where cash on table is accepted
1148 2014-04-17 20:04:38 <Luke-Jr> Joric: you could dispute the credit card charge a few days later..
1149 2014-04-17 20:05:06 <Luke-Jr> under some $ amount, most fastfood won't get the signature, so you won't encounter any problems with the dispute
1150 2014-04-17 20:05:20 <vetch> signature.
1151 2014-04-17 20:05:28 <vetch> backwards world you live in Luke-Jr
1152 2014-04-17 20:05:33 <Luke-Jr> vetch: hm?
1153 2014-04-17 20:06:00 <vetch> lots of countries dont even accept signatures now. its NFC or chip and pin.
1154 2014-04-17 20:06:17 <Joric> if i only knew! san jose fastfoods are pretty expensive
1155 2014-04-17 20:06:30 <vetch> well you'd be committing fraud.
1156 2014-04-17 20:06:35 <Luke-Jr> yep
1157 2014-04-17 20:06:39 <sipa> Joric: compared to?
1158 2014-04-17 20:06:43 <Luke-Jr> is double-spending your lunch really worth jail time?
1159 2014-04-17 20:06:46 <vetch> we're saying its possible not legal or recommended.
1160 2014-04-17 20:07:12 <petertodd> sipa: certainly not switzerland, a place so beautiful a coffee costs $10...
1161 2014-04-17 20:07:13 <Luke-Jr> sipa: compared to growing your own food of course :P
1162 2014-04-17 20:07:44 <sipa> petertodd: recent had a burger here, for (converted) $55
1163 2014-04-17 20:07:48 <sipa> *recently
1164 2014-04-17 20:08:21 <petertodd> sipa: ha! I spent a week at the ethereum hackerspace in zug
1165 2014-04-17 20:08:44 <sipa> well, you can double-spend a transaction minutes (maybe hours) after leaving the store, which likely has lower discovery chance than just leaving without paying
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1167 2014-04-17 20:09:27 <Luke-Jr> sipa: you can do days/months later with CC
1168 2014-04-17 20:09:30 <robonerd> "<Joric>	 you normally dont walk out of a fastfood" <- true, as ppl with diabetes are generally with canes or wheelchairs
1169 2014-04-17 20:09:47 <Luke-Jr> sipa: and I think you underestimate how easy it is to shoplift low-value products from store
1170 2014-04-17 20:10:29 <Luke-Jr> (or maybe I underestimate modern store security.. never tried XD)
1171 2014-04-17 20:10:51 <sipa> if they have security camera's, there's likely little difference
1172 2014-04-17 20:10:54 <vetch> I know that its a fair percentage of most supermarkets revenue is displaced by theft
1173 2014-04-17 20:11:26 <vetch> sipa: security cameras don't matter. nobody is going to spend the money or time picking up someone stealing a can of red bull.
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1175 2014-04-17 20:11:37 <sipa> then again, i don't know how hard/costly/risky disputing a cc transaction is in evolved places on earth though
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1177 2014-04-17 20:12:12 <vetch> security cameras suck anyway. 1fps at 200 lines isn't enough to identify people from gray blobs.
1178 2014-04-17 20:12:22 <sipa> (to be honest, i have never used my credit card outside of the US or the internet, and i don't actually even know my pin code)
1179 2014-04-17 20:12:30 <robonerd> vetch it is if they have one of those Enhance buttons
1180 2014-04-17 20:12:54 <vetch> sipa: that's outside the norm. most European countries don't use signatures at all.
1181 2014-04-17 20:13:18 <sipa> vetch: i know, i would be unable to use my own credit card here, but i have never needed
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1184 2014-04-17 20:14:20 <vetch> it's weird that anybody considers a written signature to mean anything. at best its a symbol of understanding not authentication.
1185 2014-04-17 20:14:29 <robonerd> i agree
1186 2014-04-17 20:14:40 <robonerd> some scrawl is supposedly legally binding strong auth
1187 2014-04-17 20:14:44 <robonerd> yea... right
1188 2014-04-17 20:15:20 <sipa> ever realized how wrong the term 'digital signature' is?
1189 2014-04-17 20:15:22 <vetch> and emails aren't legal documents but faxes are. legacy things are often completely nonsensical.
1190 2014-04-17 20:15:25 <justanotheruser> vetch: it makes it so you can't say you didn't agree to a contract without risking being charged with a felony
1191 2014-04-17 20:15:38 <sipa> it's not a signature at all, as signatures do not commit to what they are signing
1192 2014-04-17 20:15:42 <Luke-Jr> backwards world you live in vetch
1193 2014-04-17 20:15:43 <sipa> it should be called a digital seal
1194 2014-04-17 20:16:02 <vetch> that's a nicer phrase
1195 2014-04-17 20:16:07 <Luke-Jr> in the US, digital signatures are legally binding
1196 2014-04-17 20:16:16 <sipa> (i didn't come up with that, i think zooko did)
1197 2014-04-17 20:16:19 <petertodd> sipa: what do you mean? signatures certainly commit to what they are signing
1198 2014-04-17 20:16:26 <vetch> Luke-Jr: tell me about it. took me half a day to find a facsimile machine.
1199 2014-04-17 20:16:44 <sipa> petertodd: they depend in no way on what they are signing
1200 2014-04-17 20:17:00 <vetch> sipa: they don't really. the signed document can be changed after the fact without altering the signature.
1201 2014-04-17 20:17:11 <sipa> vetch: that's exactly my point
1202 2014-04-17 20:17:24 <petertodd> sipa: on real world documents they do - a whole branch of forensics is devoted to determining if the document was alterned after the signature. not the strongest guarantee, but it is there
1203 2014-04-17 20:17:39 <vetch> sipa: that was meant to be to petertodd, sorry.
1204 2014-04-17 20:18:04 <sipa> in a sense, a digital signature achieves what real signatures were intended to achieve
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1206 2014-04-17 20:18:18 <sipa> (and which seals did achieve)
1207 2014-04-17 20:18:25 <vetch> petertodd: yep. probably one of the reasons consumer laser printers encode the time and serial number of the printer into every print job as a yellow field of dots.
1208 2014-04-17 20:18:28 <petertodd> sipa: much better said
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1211 2014-04-17 20:18:53 <petertodd> vetch: well, I think that's more anti-counterfitting, but it could be used for that too
1212 2014-04-17 20:19:32 <vetch> petertodd: anybody into that business would surely be aware of them.
1213 2014-04-17 20:20:07 <Luke-Jr> counterfeiting*
1214 2014-04-17 20:20:10 <petertodd> from a UI/UU point of view though digital seal is the better analogy as the molds to make seals are personal thinks that need to be kept safe
1215 2014-04-17 20:21:42 * Luke-Jr wonders if the commoner knows what a seal is
1216 2014-04-17 20:21:56 nsh_ has joined
1217 2014-04-17 20:21:58 <robonerd> the commoner?
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1219 2014-04-17 20:22:02 <robonerd> what a dick remark
1220 2014-04-17 20:22:08 nsh_ is now known as nsh
1221 2014-04-17 20:22:12 <robonerd> as if you're some noble
1222 2014-04-17 20:22:20 <sipa> loi
1223 2014-04-17 20:22:33 <tommygunner> saint eligius
1224 2014-04-17 20:22:44 <robonerd> oh everyone make way, grand lord luke is late for the ball
1225 2014-04-17 20:22:45 <petertodd> sipa: I take it "loi" is the new hip way to spell it?
1226 2014-04-17 20:23:10 <sipa> petertodd: "Laughing On the Inside", as i'm not actually laughing out loud
1227 2014-04-17 20:23:16 <petertodd> sipa: ha
1228 2014-04-17 20:23:26 <robonerd> is loi new?
1229 2014-04-17 20:23:31 <robonerd> it's not bad actually
1230 2014-04-17 20:23:34 <Luke-Jr> robonerd: off-topic; if you have a better term for the idiots that make up most of the world, feel free to suggest one.
1231 2014-04-17 20:23:40 <robonerd> you
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1235 2014-04-17 20:24:00 <robonerd> because most cunts in the world happen to think everyone else is the cunt, and not them
1236 2014-04-17 20:24:04 <robonerd> ironic isn't it
1237 2014-04-17 20:24:07 <sipa> take it elsehwere please
1238 2014-04-17 20:24:15 <sipa> robonerd: there was a site for years, nomorelol.com, that promoted its usage over "lol", but it's down now
1239 2014-04-17 20:24:29 <sipa> here is a mirror: http://centraldigit.com/loi.html
1240 2014-04-17 20:24:30 <robonerd> i'll consider supporting loi
1241 2014-04-17 20:24:37 <robonerd> the 'lulz' tools kinda fucked lol up
1242 2014-04-17 20:24:45 <robonerd> just like the pwn dbags fucked up own
1243 2014-04-17 20:25:00 <Joric> asap is even more misused imho
1244 2014-04-17 20:25:20 <robonerd> asap existed before inet critical mass tho
1245 2014-04-17 20:25:27 <Joric> at least in a software industry
1246 2014-04-17 20:25:33 <sipa> i remember the first time i few to the us
1247 2014-04-17 20:25:55 <sipa> first big sign in new york airport "from jfk to nyc asap:"
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1249 2014-04-17 20:26:08 <sipa> you wouldn't have seen something like that in europe :)
1250 2014-04-17 20:26:37 <robonerd> it'd be "heathrow to sussex after tea" ?
1251 2014-04-17 20:26:44 <sipa> lol!
1252 2014-04-17 20:26:53 <robonerd> hehe
1253 2014-04-17 20:26:59 <Joric> quite
1254 2014-04-17 20:27:02 <sipa> (actual lol, btw)
1255 2014-04-17 20:27:06 <robonerd> unf
1256 2014-04-17 20:27:11 * robonerd is an earner
1257 2014-04-17 20:28:28 <sipa> unf?
1258 2014-04-17 20:29:01 <robonerd> the deep sensation of satisfaction
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1276 2014-04-17 20:37:28 <elichai2_> what happened with the nightly idea?
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1278 2014-04-17 20:40:16 <sipa> http://sourceforge.net/p/bitcoin/mailman/message/32235855/
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1290 2014-04-17 20:51:19 <elichai2> sipa: they upgraded the debian binary to 0.9.1 already?
1291 2014-04-17 20:51:28 <elichai2> (the 0.9.99 one)
1292 2014-04-17 20:53:02 <sipa> no clue about debian
1293 2014-04-17 20:53:26 <sipa> and i don't understand your question... are you talking about 0.9.1 or the nightlies?
1294 2014-04-17 20:53:52 <elichai2> lol about 0.9.1
1295 2014-04-17 20:54:16 <elichai2> normall bitcoin core dosen't work on debian
1296 2014-04-17 20:54:28 <elichai2> so someone did a beta version(0.9.99) that does work
1297 2014-04-17 20:54:41 ielo has joined
1298 2014-04-17 20:54:49 <elichai2> and i want to know if they changed that in 0.9.1 too, or i need to compile by myself
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1301 2014-04-17 20:56:17 <sipa> they? 0.9.1 didn't change
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1303 2014-04-17 20:56:26 <sipa> you'll need to wait for a new release
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1305 2014-04-17 20:57:05 <warren> elichai2: didn't 0.9.1 disribute static builds?  those work on debian
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1323 2014-04-17 21:19:39 <elichai2> warren: no, the glibc is the problem
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1326 2014-04-17 21:20:39 <elichai2> btw, i'm helping translate bitcoin core, and there is a lot of strings like "&Amount:" and "&Clear" what the '&' for?
1327 2014-04-17 21:20:45 <warren> elichai2: you don't understand the issue
1328 2014-04-17 21:20:50 <elichai2> i need to write it in the translated word too?
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1330 2014-04-17 21:21:13 <sipa> elichai2: the & goes before the underlined character for key shortcuts
1331 2014-04-17 21:21:30 <sipa> so &Clean means alt-c will autoselect that menu option
1332 2014-04-17 21:22:12 <elichai2> ohhh
1333 2014-04-17 21:22:15 ielo has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1334 2014-04-17 21:22:26 <elichai2> so if i have a string like "R&euse an existing receiving address (not recommended)"
1335 2014-04-17 21:22:33 <elichai2> i must put the '&' in place?
1336 2014-04-17 21:22:42 <elichai2> (before the same char?)
1337 2014-04-17 21:22:43 <sipa> you must have the & somewhere
1338 2014-04-17 21:22:48 <sipa> you chooise where
1339 2014-04-17 21:22:54 <elichai2> ok...thx
1340 2014-04-17 21:23:09 <sipa> just make sure it doesn't conflict with other menu options that are simultaneously visible
1341 2014-04-17 21:24:47 <elichai2> ammm.... it's hard to make sure of that but i'll try my best
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1348 2014-04-17 21:33:36 <warren> elichai2: bitcoin-0.9.1-linux/bin/64/bitcoind.static
1349 2014-04-17 21:33:45 <warren> elichai2: that was distributed in 0.9.1 and will run on any Linux
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1354 2014-04-17 21:40:08 <elichai2> im 32 but ok...
1355 2014-04-17 21:40:16 <elichai2> so you saying to try the static one
1356 2014-04-17 21:40:45 <elichai2> what about bitcoin-qt?
1357 2014-04-17 21:41:00 <sipa> bitcoin qt can't be made static for linix
1358 2014-04-17 21:41:12 <sipa> qt pulls in too many system dependent libraries
1359 2014-04-17 21:41:39 <elichai2> so i do need to compile by myself...
1360 2014-04-17 21:41:44 <sipa> yes
1361 2014-04-17 21:41:49 <elichai2> ok i'll start clone the 0.9.1 release
1362 2014-04-17 21:41:55 <sipa> or wait for 0.9.2
1363 2014-04-17 21:42:32 hanncx has quit (Quit: hanncx)
1364 2014-04-17 21:42:39 <elichai2> kk thx
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1369 2014-04-17 21:50:33 <elichai2> shesek: here?
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1371 2014-04-17 21:53:09 <shesek> elichai2, yep
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1375 2014-04-17 21:58:45 <elichai2> why i can't see the orginal string when i translate
1376 2014-04-17 22:00:14 <elichai2> i mean some words have conflicting meannings
1377 2014-04-17 22:00:26 <elichai2> and i don't know which one is the apropriate
1378 2014-04-17 22:00:49 <sipa> how do you mean?
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1380 2014-04-17 22:01:16 <elichai2> i mean about the translating site for Bitcoin COre
1381 2014-04-17 22:02:05 <sipa> you can use some translation software instead of the site i think
1382 2014-04-17 22:02:12 <sipa> but i've never used transifex
1383 2014-04-17 22:02:25 <elichai2> which softwares are recommend?
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1385 2014-04-17 22:03:26 nsh_ has joined
1386 2014-04-17 22:03:31 <sipa> no clue, never used it
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1390 2014-04-17 22:06:08 <elichai2> !seen GAit
1391 2014-04-17 22:06:08 <gribble> GAit was last seen in #bitcoin-dev 15 hours, 58 minutes, and 51 seconds ago: <GAit> vetch: who knows, maybe by the end of the first day i'll feel the same
1392 2014-04-17 22:06:14 <warren> sipa: submission by any method that is not transifex will be rejected
1393 2014-04-17 22:06:31 robonerd has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
1394 2014-04-17 22:06:43 <sipa> warren: can't you download and upload transactions to transifex?
1395 2014-04-17 22:06:54 <sipa> in some standard translation software format?
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1399 2014-04-17 22:07:08 <warren> users can download but not upload
1400 2014-04-17 22:07:15 <sipa> oh :(
1401 2014-04-17 22:07:20 <sipa> that's sad
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1407 2014-04-17 22:14:48 <elichai2> what i will lose if i'll compile with --with-incompatible-bdb ?
1408 2014-04-17 22:15:10 <sipa> the ability to open your wallet with release binaries
1409 2014-04-17 22:15:28 <sipa> (though you can manually downconvert still)
1410 2014-04-17 22:16:08 <elichai2> ammmm... i'm thinking what's worse
1411 2014-04-17 22:16:13 <elichai2> doing that
1412 2014-04-17 22:16:24 Application has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1413 2014-04-17 22:16:26 <elichai2> or adding oldstable repo and installing 4.8 db
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1416 2014-04-17 22:20:03 <Luke-Jr> elichai2: Debian repos are NOT mixable..
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1418 2014-04-17 22:21:43 <elichai2> from #debian right now:
1419 2014-04-17 22:21:45 <elichai2> tremon | elichai2: that shouldn't be a problem, iff it works with the rest of the libraries from wheezy. Maybe a reverse backport would be safer, but I don't expect problems just installing it
1420 2014-04-17 22:22:02 <elichai2> Luke-Jr: btw, Bitcoin saying to do that! https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/0.9.1/doc/build-unix.md#dependency-build-instructions-ubuntu--debian
1421 2014-04-17 22:22:25 * Luke-Jr facepalms
1422 2014-04-17 22:23:47 <sipa> elichai2: if you compile yourself with the intention of using it, i suggest using --with-incompatible-bdb
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1424 2014-04-17 22:24:08 <sipa> if you ever need to go back to release binaries again, it's a one time thing to downconvert
1425 2014-04-17 22:24:40 <sipa> (db5.1_dump wallet.dat | db4.4_load wallet.old.dat)
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1430 2014-04-17 22:26:03 <elichai2> sipa: yeah but if in 0.9.2 you'll somehow add debian support i'll want to move to release binaries
1431 2014-04-17 22:26:26 <warren> elichai2: dude
1432 2014-04-17 22:26:31 <warren> elichai2: there is no "somehow"
1433 2014-04-17 22:27:23 <elichai2> warren: you saying that if you would add debian support you will upgrade the libdb to 5.1?
1434 2014-04-17 22:27:38 <warren> oh
1435 2014-04-17 22:27:49 <warren> elichai2: bitcoin will not move from db 4.8
1436 2014-04-17 22:28:07 <elichai2> that what i meant
1437 2014-04-17 22:28:11 <elichai2> warren: but why?
1438 2014-04-17 22:28:18 <elichai2> it's old version
1439 2014-04-17 22:28:35 <warren> wallet.dat would be incompatible with other builds
1440 2014-04-17 22:28:37 <warren> 4.8 is stable
1441 2014-04-17 22:28:41 <vetch> wallets would be incompatible if we did.
1442 2014-04-17 22:28:48 <elichai2> ohh
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1444 2014-04-17 22:29:04 <elichai2> ok, i'm installing it now :) hold fingures for me :P
1445 2014-04-17 22:29:17 <sipa> installing what?
1446 2014-04-17 22:29:24 <warren> you are not asking questions relevant to -dev
1447 2014-04-17 22:29:38 <elichai2> sipa: libdb 4.8
1448 2014-04-17 22:30:24 <sipa> at some point, we may define and implement a custom wallet format for bitcoin core, that doesn't depend on bdb and its ugly compatibility policy
1449 2014-04-17 22:30:40 <sipa> but even then, we'll need to support readijg from old wallet files
1450 2014-04-17 22:31:08 <elichai2> why bitcoin core can't automatically convert the wallets?
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1452 2014-04-17 22:31:34 <sipa> because wallet.dat is a bdb database file
1453 2014-04-17 22:31:40 <sipa> so we need bdb libraries tonread it
1454 2014-04-17 22:32:03 <maaku> yay I finished refactoring bitcoin to use a CMoney type instead of int64_t
1455 2014-04-17 22:32:06 <sipa> and once you open a wallet file with a more recent bdb version, it is automatically upconverted
1456 2014-04-17 22:32:19 <sipa> nothing we can do about that
1457 2014-04-17 22:32:30 <sipa> except getting rid of bdb
1458 2014-04-17 22:32:52 <elichai2> or just upgrade it
1459 2014-04-17 22:32:58 <sipa> ...
1460 2014-04-17 22:33:00 <elichai2> and everybody will upgrade their wallet
1461 2014-04-17 22:33:24 <sipa> that would mean dropping support for all old distros
1462 2014-04-17 22:33:29 <sipa> which don't have newer bdb
1463 2014-04-17 22:33:36 <elichai2> ohhh.... ammm... you right
1464 2014-04-17 22:33:54 <sipa> we must use the oldest version possible for maximal compatibility
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1468 2014-04-17 22:34:11 <daemon>  or drop to using JSON for the wallet type
1469 2014-04-17 22:34:13 <sipa> which is such a burden that we just want to get rid of it
1470 2014-04-17 22:34:23 <sipa> daemon: we can do better than that
1471 2014-04-17 22:34:24 <daemon> or an XML flat :)
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1473 2014-04-17 22:34:36 <sipa> append-only log of changes, checksummed and timestamped
1474 2014-04-17 22:34:46 <sipa> occasionally rewritten and replaced
1475 2014-04-17 22:35:08 <daemon> hmm not a bad idea, uniform logging spec, re readable throughout versions and version won't matter as its not relying on a core library
1476 2014-04-17 22:35:17 <daemon> its just the version of the reader on the userland client
1477 2014-04-17 22:35:27 <daemon> which can be upgraded at any point with normal privs
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1479 2014-04-17 22:38:28 <elichai2> what better QT4 or QT5?
1480 2014-04-17 22:38:32 <elichai2> (i guess 5...)
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1482 2014-04-17 22:39:10 <Luke-Jr> sipa: dunno, at this point backports of newer bdb might be easier to come by than forward ports of db4.8
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1484 2014-04-17 22:39:35 <Luke-Jr> elichai2: depends
1485 2014-04-17 22:39:44 <elichai2> Luke-Jr: on what?
1486 2014-04-17 22:39:52 <elichai2> (but it seems that i have no QT5)
1487 2014-04-17 22:40:00 <sipa> then use 4
1488 2014-04-17 22:40:08 <elichai2> lol that what i did
1489 2014-04-17 22:40:10 <Luke-Jr> elichai2: most Linux-based OS only work with Qt4 for now
1490 2014-04-17 22:40:13 <elichai2> i just thought i had
1491 2014-04-17 22:41:22 <Luke-Jr> sadly, it seems Qt4 is no longer receiving bugfixes :<
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1493 2014-04-17 22:42:24 <elichai2> so why QT5 isn't in all linux repos already?
1494 2014-04-17 22:42:50 <Luke-Jr> elichai2: Qt5 is Qt5 because it broke backward compatibility with ~everything
1495 2014-04-17 22:43:05 <Luke-Jr> heck, KDE is *still* using Qt4's Qt3-support module..
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1498 2014-04-17 22:44:24 <Luke-Jr> (to be clear, I consider KDE at fault for this, not Qt :P)
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1500 2014-04-17 22:44:54 <elichai2> s
1501 2014-04-17 22:44:56 <elichai2> s
1502 2014-04-17 22:44:58 <elichai2> sorry
1503 2014-04-17 22:45:15 <elichai2> ok, thx i'll let the 'make' command run and go to sleep :P
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1554 2014-04-17 23:44:06 <RedEmerald> are there any plans to make the URGENT: Upgrade required message
1555 2014-04-17 23:44:15 <RedEmerald> able to detect that openssl is the right version, rather than only checking bitcoind?
1556 2014-04-17 23:44:58 <RedEmerald> might be nice in the future when we have some other library that needs to be upgraded
1557 2014-04-17 23:45:02 llllllllll has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
1558 2014-04-17 23:45:18 <RedEmerald> since i could be running bitcoin 0.9.1 with an old openssl
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1575 2014-04-17 23:55:52 <vetch> RedEmerald: no, alerts have no processing except version number.
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1577 2014-04-17 23:56:14 <vetch> I don't imagine that will change.
1578 2014-04-17 23:56:27 <RedEmerald> seems like it would be nice to check library versions, too
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