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   5 2014-04-18 00:08:56 <vetch> RedEmerald: even if a change was made today people would need to update to see it..
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   7 2014-04-18 00:10:02 <RedEmerald> thats why I said “might be nice in the future”
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   9 2014-04-18 00:10:18 <RedEmerald> i doubt this will be the first time a library needs to be upgraded
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  36 2014-04-18 00:36:25 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|23:24:01 <sipa> first big sign in new york airport "from jfk to nyc asap:" <-- Uh, isn't JFK in Queens?
  37 2014-04-18 00:36:32 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Last I checked it's in NYC
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  41 2014-04-18 00:37:28 <Apocalyptic> he meant to manhattan prolly
  42 2014-04-18 00:37:42 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|01:27:10 <elichai2> ok, i'm installing it now :) hold fingures for me :P
  43 2014-04-18 00:37:42 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|elichai2: I know exactly why you said that, and the equivalent in English is "cross your fingers"
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 117 2014-04-18 01:56:24 <GAit> out of curiosity, has "off by default optional auto updating bitcoinqt signed by  n of m dev keys" ever been discussed
 118 2014-04-18 01:57:22 <super3> figured this would be a quick merge
 119 2014-04-18 01:57:22 <super3> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/4047
 120 2014-04-18 01:57:25 <super3> any suggestions?
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 124 2014-04-18 02:02:18 <chairman_meow> hello
 125 2014-04-18 02:02:39 <chairman_meow> is the random k part of the signing process also part of the signature?
 126 2014-04-18 02:02:46 <chairman_meow> in ECDSA
 127 2014-04-18 02:02:59 <chairman_meow> the one that shouldn't be repeated
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 129 2014-04-18 02:05:22 <chairman_meow> looks like it's not
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 181 2014-04-18 03:07:02 <shesek> are there any risks associated with reusing the same key for multiple signatures?
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 184 2014-04-18 03:07:15 <shesek> assuming "multiple" is some relatively large number
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 188 2014-04-18 03:09:00 <vetch> shesek: I don't believe so, unless you collide with your k.
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 190 2014-04-18 03:09:38 <vetch> if your random k collides you're screwed.
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 204 2014-04-18 03:20:56 <shesek> vetch, so it should be fine as long as I make sure to pick good K values? (e.g. H(data||priv||random))
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 218 2014-04-18 03:46:42 <vetch> shesek: to the best of my knowledge, yes.
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 256 2014-04-18 04:42:28 <PRab> Has there been any effort to have the core Bitcoin Core developers have a GPG key signing party?
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 263 2014-04-18 04:50:54 <petertodd> PRab: we already do that actually - everyone is connected to everyone else by one or two hops
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 265 2014-04-18 04:51:29 <petertodd> PRab: and myself I've been introducing a lot of new developers to PGP: http://pgp.cs.uu.nl/mk_path.cgi?STAT=7FAB114267E4FA04&STATS=statistics
 266 2014-04-18 04:52:09 <petertodd> PRab: not perfect, but I think core devs signing each others keys isn't the biggest issue here by far
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 283 2014-04-18 05:19:30 <splitting> anyone here have experience starting and stopping the bitcoin daemon with python?
 284 2014-04-18 05:19:41 Joric has joined
 285 2014-04-18 05:21:47 <jcorgan> not personally, but i think the Armory client does that in Python, you could see how they do it
 286 2014-04-18 05:22:54 <splitting> alright
 287 2014-04-18 05:22:58 <splitting> because im using subprocess currently
 288 2014-04-18 05:23:03 <splitting> it starts it just fine
 289 2014-04-18 05:23:10 <splitting> but for some reason anything I try can't stop the daemon
 290 2014-04-18 05:23:35 <splitting> i have to stop the daemon manually over htop or using "stop"
 291 2014-04-18 05:23:41 <splitting> and then the script continues
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 294 2014-04-18 05:28:12 <splitting> jcorgan, bitcoin armory doesnt manage the daemon actually
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 296 2014-04-18 05:29:26 <jcorgan> i thought they recently added the ability to do that
 297 2014-04-18 05:30:12 <splitting> https://github.com/etotheipi/BitcoinArmory/blob/caf9fc378f8a1b8fd1e4a89a9f60ad9239311c0a/armoryd.py
 298 2014-04-18 05:30:14 <splitting> line 26
 299 2014-04-18 05:32:43 <jcorgan> https://bitcoinarmory.com/about/armory-and-bitcoin-qt/
 300 2014-04-18 05:32:56 <jcorgan> see section "About Bitcoin-Qt and "bitcoind""
 301 2014-04-18 05:33:33 <jcorgan> "The latest version of Armory will run bitcoind for you in the background, and will actually require you to close any instances you started manually"
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 305 2014-04-18 05:39:24 <splitting> hmm alright
 306 2014-04-18 05:39:27 <splitting> i'll dig deeper then
 307 2014-04-18 05:39:32 <splitting> ty
 308 2014-04-18 05:43:11 <super3> anyone seen laanwj today?
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 324 2014-04-18 06:11:08 <vetch> jcorgan: yeah thats nasty behaviour. it starts torrenting stuff too.
 325 2014-04-18 06:12:08 <vetch> you open it and suddenly you're running bitcoind, making call backs every 5 minutes to their servers, and running a torrent client.
 326 2014-04-18 06:12:25 <Belxjander> vetch: what client is that?
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 355 2014-04-18 06:52:51 <maybefbi> from reading the protocol specification, it seems like the only operation performed on a merkle tree is calculating its root. is this correct?
 356 2014-04-18 06:54:19 <sipa> partial blocks do more
 357 2014-04-18 06:54:50 <maybefbi> what more do they do?
 358 2014-04-18 06:55:06 <sipa> read bip37
 359 2014-04-18 06:57:41 <maybefbi> sipa, thanks
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 361 2014-04-18 06:57:58 <maybefbi> sipa, has it been implemented by any of the clients you know?
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 365 2014-04-18 07:08:17 <sipa> bitcoinj and bitvcoin core
 366 2014-04-18 07:08:29 <sipa> bitcoinj as client, bitcoin core as server
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 379 2014-04-18 07:16:50 * Luke-Jr dreamt about CScriptNum. O.o
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 381 2014-04-18 07:17:48 <DiabloD3> Luke-Jr: I once drempt about code
 382 2014-04-18 07:17:55 <DiabloD3> I quit coding for about 3 months after that
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 385 2014-04-18 07:21:40 <gmaxwell> Luke-Jr: wrt your comment on 3965 the problem with that kind of thinking is that a soft fork addition of something new does no harm to people who don't use it and don't care about it... but removing something might strike someone as taking away something they might need.
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 389 2014-04-18 07:22:35 <gmaxwell> Luke-Jr: as it stands I can't think of much that could be removed. The only things that remain which I consider especially awful off the top of my head are the size of "0" and the existance of "negative 0" integers
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 391 2014-04-18 07:23:23 <gmaxwell> also, I suppose that the range of the integer types does not otherwise exist in nature. :P
 392 2014-04-18 07:24:41 <sipa> i shouldn't have made that comment on the integer range
 393 2014-04-18 07:24:48 <sipa> there is no integer range
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 395 2014-04-18 07:25:09 <sipa> only a limit on the number of bytes that can get converted to an integer
 396 2014-04-18 07:25:11 <gmaxwell> well, there is a range that you can operate on!
 397 2014-04-18 07:25:22 <gmaxwell> indeed.
 398 2014-04-18 07:25:34 <sipa> 00 00 00 00 00 + 00
 399 2014-04-18 07:25:39 <sipa> will also fail
 400 2014-04-18 07:28:09 <gmaxwell> Here were the extra test cases http://0bin.net/paste/2Agru29gFX08bmoC#H86GSbXytb2rfCnK1GOF0XIbxvvSgeAhgOUpQnGVlG0=  (hm. well some, I think I have more someplace in a git stash)
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 402 2014-04-18 07:29:21 <gmaxwell> the fact that we don't have a return true is annoying, fwiw, it means I cannot easily convert the must pass tests into precisely equal must fail tests.
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 404 2014-04-18 07:30:44 <gmaxwell> (e.g. by converting EQUALVERIFY   to a EQUAL NOT IF RETURNTRUE ENDIF ...)
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 556 2014-04-18 11:08:34 <HM2> what's the name of that verifiable binary build framework bitcoin uses?
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 559 2014-04-18 11:08:57 <Luke-Jr> HM2: gitian
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 561 2014-04-18 11:09:21 <HM2> ty
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 728 2014-04-18 14:41:40 <jgarzik> Love it: http://xkcd.com/1357/
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 730 2014-04-18 14:41:57 <jgarzik> I'll bookmark that for any time someone screams "censorship!" when they are banned from a forum
 731 2014-04-18 14:42:16 <cbeams>  nice.
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 757 2014-04-18 15:07:12 <tyrick> I have a question
 758 2014-04-18 15:07:49 <tyrick> in main.h, the AllowFree() function references a constant COIN
 759 2014-04-18 15:08:06 <tyrick> Where is this declared in the source?
 760 2014-04-18 15:08:10 <maaku> tyrick: util.h
 761 2014-04-18 15:08:13 <tyrick> thx
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 774 2014-04-18 15:30:32 <GAit> nice, low s value merged in bitcoinjs https://github.com/bitcoinjs/bitcoinjs-lib/pull/135
 775 2014-04-18 15:32:03 <GAit> gmaxwell or sipa or anyone that wants/feels like reviewing https://github.com/richardkiss/pycoin/pull/24 ? same change as above but for python/pycoin
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 785 2014-04-18 15:40:18 <tyrick> I am for the first jumping jumping into the source code.. Might be around bugging yous' guys for a while
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 848 2014-04-18 16:57:33 <maaku> jgarzik: we talked about it, so I finally made it - a pull-request separating out a pluggable CMoney type for encapsulating the int64_t type for money usage
 849 2014-04-18 16:57:34 <maaku> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/4067
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 858 2014-04-18 17:07:22 <sipa> maaku: money * money -> makes no sense imho
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 861 2014-04-18 17:08:57 <maaku> sipa: type wise, yes, but that is for the C++ compiler doing implicity int -> CMoney conversion when you have something like 3 * COIN
 862 2014-04-18 17:09:51 <maaku> well, COIN is still an integer, but I hope that illustrated the point at least
 863 2014-04-18 17:09:53 <sipa> maaku: i don't understand
 864 2014-04-18 17:10:18 <maaku> sipa: there are many places in the code base which do stuff like nValue * <some integer constant>
 865 2014-04-18 17:10:25 <sipa> yes
 866 2014-04-18 17:10:26 <maaku> especially in the unit tests
 867 2014-04-18 17:10:43 <sipa> operator*(CMoney, int64) seems perfect for that
 868 2014-04-18 17:11:32 <maaku> btw, operator/ makes even less sense
 869 2014-04-18 17:11:39 <gmaxwell> sipa: maaku is just trying to stay ahead of the curve with fully homorphic money.
 870 2014-04-18 17:11:45 <maaku> but I was changing *a lot* of code to get rid of those...
 871 2014-04-18 17:11:50 <maaku> heh
 872 2014-04-18 17:12:01 <sipa> monwy / money returning an int or double seems perfectly reasonable
 873 2014-04-18 17:12:30 <gmaxwell> where do we need money/money?
 874 2014-04-18 17:12:32 <sipa> (if there's a need for that)
 875 2014-04-18 17:12:54 <maaku> gmaxwell: either we need it or we need to greatly refactor a bunch of code that does that
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 877 2014-04-18 17:13:06 <sipa> example?
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 879 2014-04-18 17:13:48 <phantomcircuit> <gmaxwell> where do we need money/money?
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 881 2014-04-18 17:13:54 <phantomcircuit> there's a good joke in there somewhere
 882 2014-04-18 17:16:48 <maaku> one that springs to mind is Bitcoin-Qt's factor() and units() methods, plus tons of unit tests
 883 2014-04-18 17:16:55 <maaku> and i think some of the IsDust code
 884 2014-04-18 17:17:05 <sipa> maaku: i would find it quite need if there was for example no GetInt64 in CMoney, but there was a CMoney constant UNIT, and to get an amount in satoshi's, you'd divide your value by UNIT
 885 2014-04-18 17:17:12 <sipa> *neat
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 939 2014-04-18 18:14:13 <Emcy> suddenly sidechains
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 946 2014-04-18 18:18:17 <robonerd> Emcy what're your thoughts on sidechains?
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 948 2014-04-18 18:18:55 <Emcy> i think its something which i heard of a few years ago i think
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 950 2014-04-18 18:19:37 <Emcy> as i understand its just a merge mined chain with provable bi-directional coin porting between bitcoin and a client chain right
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 952 2014-04-18 18:20:43 <maaku> Emcy: yes, it's an old idea
 953 2014-04-18 18:20:53 <Emcy> whats surprised me mroe is that people apparently think they can get the poolops to care and add chains as MM.....thats not exactly permission free innovation as claimed
 954 2014-04-18 18:20:58 <maaku> although in terms of actual implementation pathway, only worked out in Dec and made efficient in March
 955 2014-04-18 18:21:27 <Emcy> perhaps the incentive will be to do that, or watch as the bitcoin chain continues getting stuffed full of irrelevant data
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 957 2014-04-18 18:22:36 <Emcy> maaku yes, lots of ideas are flaoting around from years ago and seem to be getting picked up as people finally have the time to do it
 958 2014-04-18 18:22:51 <jcorgan> the most promising development for me personally is that sidechains can resurrect the idea of Zerocoin as "part of" Bitcoin instead of as a pure alt
 959 2014-04-18 18:23:24 <Emcy> speaking of which also storj, though that doesnt seem too similar to g maxwells original idea i dont think
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 961 2014-04-18 18:23:30 <maaku> Emcy: making it profitable for miners is relatively easy. making the profits from being honest larger than the profits from fraud is a little harder
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 965 2014-04-18 18:23:59 <Emcy> jcorgan yes that is exciting indeed
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 967 2014-04-18 18:24:16 <Emcy> testty
 968 2014-04-18 18:24:38 <jcorgan> though i have no idea if the ZC devs agree with that sentiment
 969 2014-04-18 18:24:40 <Emcy> strange i come back and my irc client is now truncating lines
 970 2014-04-18 18:25:23 <Emcy> i dont see why they wouldnt, if they want it to actually get used and be of mutual benefit to bitcoin and thier own system
 971 2014-04-18 18:25:29 <Emcy> i hope politics doesnt cupper that
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 974 2014-04-18 18:26:06 <jcorgan> agree
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 976 2014-04-18 18:27:53 <Emcy> heh poor gavin, spent six months solid on payment protocol founded on CA PKI because thats whats out there and functioning
 977 2014-04-18 18:28:22 <Emcy> 0.9 releases to great fanfare then suddenly heartbleed out of fucking nowhere
 978 2014-04-18 18:28:53 <lianj> and now its openssl popcorn time for a couple of months?
 979 2014-04-18 18:29:10 <Emcy> oh yeah
 980 2014-04-18 18:29:31 <Emcy> even this shitty tiny ass forum with like 6 people im on is vulnerable
 981 2014-04-18 18:29:45 <Emcy> and i cant get hold of the guy to fic it lol
 982 2014-04-18 18:29:53 so has joined
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 984 2014-04-18 18:30:38 <Emcy> "According to CloudFlare, GlobalSign’s CRL grew from 22KB before Heartbleed to 4.9MB afterward."
 985 2014-04-18 18:30:53 <jcorgan> CRLs are the nuclear waste of PKI
 986 2014-04-18 18:31:06 <Emcy> "“The activity of browsers downloading the Globalsign CRL generated around 40Gbps of net new traffic across the Internet,” CloudFlare writes"
 987 2014-04-18 18:31:09 <Emcy> toplel
 988 2014-04-18 18:32:07 <Emcy> its amazing how rickety the system is really
 989 2014-04-18 18:32:33 <Emcy> i think it sort of reminds me of how name resolution was handled before DNS
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 999 2014-04-18 18:43:39 <phantomcircuit> Emcy, only a tiny fraction of certificates have been revoked
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1002 2014-04-18 18:45:07 <Emcy> yeah thats just one root CA
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1004 2014-04-18 18:45:55 <Emcy> also i thought CAs were required to pull any certs they even suspect might be leaked, which should be pretty much all of them at this point
1005 2014-04-18 18:46:34 <Emcy> im sure i remember godaddy pulling lavabits cert after the feds tried to force them to hand over the private key
1006 2014-04-18 18:46:43 <Emcy> and godaddy is establishment as fuck
1007 2014-04-18 18:47:47 sserrano44 has joined
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1009 2014-04-18 18:50:42 <phantomcircuit> Emcy, they dont want to break the internet
1010 2014-04-18 18:50:49 dexX7 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1011 2014-04-18 18:50:59 <phantomcircuit> crap i cant remember which provider i used for this key
1012 2014-04-18 18:51:05 coingenuity has joined
1013 2014-04-18 18:52:45 <Emcy> yeah
1014 2014-04-18 18:52:52 tombtc has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1015 2014-04-18 18:53:18 <Emcy> no one really expected or planned for a system break this big, or they just planned to let it slide if it happend becasue no one gives a shit
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1022 2014-04-18 18:54:42 <Emcy> im reminded of the trouble at the last british general election in 2010 where poeple couldnt vote because the polling stations were running out of ballot papers on a shock turnout of about 60%
1023 2014-04-18 18:55:02 <Luke-Jr> papers?…
1024 2014-04-18 18:55:10 <Emcy> events of the utmost seriousness and when shit hits the fan its lcear no one ever took any of it seriously
1025 2014-04-18 18:55:30 <Emcy> Luke-Jr we dont use voting machines here thank god
1026 2014-04-18 18:55:44 <Luke-Jr> Emcy: lol seriousness; as if voting really matters
1027 2014-04-18 18:56:05 roidster has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
1028 2014-04-18 18:56:15 <Emcy> well, quite, but they could atleast pretend
1029 2014-04-18 18:56:24 <Luke-Jr> btw, we're totally off-topic here XD
1030 2014-04-18 18:57:03 tombtc has joined
1031 2014-04-18 18:57:26 <Emcy> well its in support of my assertion that no one really takes the important stuff seriously, and you tend to see how they dont when shit hits the fan
1032 2014-04-18 18:57:47 <Emcy> like what happens if there were a general widrespread break in PKI
1033 2014-04-18 19:00:23 roidster has joined
1034 2014-04-18 19:00:33 <tyrick> Where are the functions LOCK, IMPLEMENT_SERIALIZE, READWRITE defined?
1035 2014-04-18 19:00:36 dims is now known as dims-openstack
1036 2014-04-18 19:00:39 <tyrick> I am assuming they are macros
1037 2014-04-18 19:02:11 zcopley has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
1038 2014-04-18 19:02:30 <Emcy> is there some sort of ulterior meaning going on when random people irc ping you?
1039 2014-04-18 19:03:56 nsh has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1040 2014-04-18 19:04:22 <Luke-Jr> tyrick: serialise.h?
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1042 2014-04-18 19:07:33 kermit has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
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1044 2014-04-18 19:08:52 <sipa> tyrick: lock is in sync.h
1045 2014-04-18 19:09:10 <tyrick> Thanks Luke-Jr.  I take back calling you a d*ck a long time ago.
1046 2014-04-18 19:09:11 <sipa> but certainly you can grep or use some search function yourself
1047 2014-04-18 19:09:21 <tyrick> on a windows machine right now
1048 2014-04-18 19:09:24 <tyrick> at work
1049 2014-04-18 19:09:27 Neozonz has joined
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1051 2014-04-18 19:09:27 Neozonz has joined
1052 2014-04-18 19:09:35 <tyrick> =/
1053 2014-04-18 19:09:36 <sipa> i have been told windows has a search function
1054 2014-04-18 19:09:43 <Luke-Jr> it does? :O
1055 2014-04-18 19:09:44 <tyrick> ew
1056 2014-04-18 19:10:01 * Luke-Jr surprised
1057 2014-04-18 19:10:38 christophe has joined
1058 2014-04-18 19:11:20 <Emcy> vista and upward has an indexing daemon thing
1059 2014-04-18 19:11:24 <tyrick> The only command worth knowing in windows is 'shutdown'
1060 2014-04-18 19:12:30 <Emcy> shutdown /f
1061 2014-04-18 19:12:36 <Luke-Jr> Emcy: rly?
1062 2014-04-18 19:12:41 Neozonz has quit (Discx2!~Neozonz@unaffiliated/neozonz|Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
1063 2014-04-18 19:13:08 <Emcy> be surprised how many times it refuses to shutdonw beccause some program is monged out and wont repsond
1064 2014-04-18 19:13:20 * Luke-Jr thought you had to use the Start Menu
1065 2014-04-18 19:13:27 banghouse has joined
1066 2014-04-18 19:13:30 <Luke-Jr> and/or Exit the Program Manager
1067 2014-04-18 19:13:33 <tyrick> ha, not that surprising actually
1068 2014-04-18 19:13:40 ThomasV has quit (Quit: Quitte)
1069 2014-04-18 19:14:32 <Luke-Jr> "Program Manager opens program groups in child windows using the new multiple document interface in Windows 3." lol wikipedia
1070 2014-04-18 19:14:51 <Emcy> little bit out of date there son
1071 2014-04-18 19:15:18 <robonerd> it was out of date when it was written, which is odd
1072 2014-04-18 19:15:36 <Emcy> windows 7 is pretty good really. I havent seena real bluscreen for a long time, and only then due to hardware fault.
1073 2014-04-18 19:15:48 <Luke-Jr> robonerd: it's hilarious though
1074 2014-04-18 19:15:50 <Emcy> and 64bit windows will not run unsigned drivers anymore
1075 2014-04-18 19:15:53 <robonerd> yea
1076 2014-04-18 19:16:06 <robonerd> do ppl still use windows?
1077 2014-04-18 19:16:14 <Luke-Jr> actually, thinking back, Program Manager was a decent UI compared to the later "desktop" design..
1078 2014-04-18 19:17:50 <Emcy> i should put windows 3.1 ina  VM or somthing, mite b cool
1079 2014-04-18 19:18:36 daybyter has joined
1080 2014-04-18 19:19:50 c0rw1n_ is now known as c0rw1n
1081 2014-04-18 19:20:48 <c0rw1n> didn't someone once install win3.1 over dosbox?
1082 2014-04-18 19:22:01 <tyrick> Well, we have bluescreens daily in our office
1083 2014-04-18 19:22:22 <c0rw1n> bah i've managed to get my hackintosh to bluescreen to death some times
1084 2014-04-18 19:22:25 <Luke-Jr> Netscape 3 was pretty good for email.. :p
1085 2014-04-18 19:22:31 <tyrick> haha
1086 2014-04-18 19:22:32 <c0rw1n> urgh
1087 2014-04-18 19:22:42 * c0rw1n throws up in his mouth a little
1088 2014-04-18 19:22:45 <robonerd> trumpet was an excellent SLIP stack
1089 2014-04-18 19:22:53 <tyrick> I am going back to my commodore 64
1090 2014-04-18 19:23:01 <robonerd> retro ftw!
1091 2014-04-18 19:23:08 yubrew__ has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1092 2014-04-18 19:23:41 <c0rw1n> hey someone with waaaaay too much free time and not enough porn is trying to ret a raspi to emulate a c64
1093 2014-04-18 19:23:45 <c0rw1n> (newsflash)
1094 2014-04-18 19:24:02 kermit has joined
1095 2014-04-18 19:24:31 <Luke-Jr> actually, someone wrote a SNES bitcoin miner not long ago..
1096 2014-04-18 19:24:36 <Luke-Jr> I think it even supports GBT
1097 2014-04-18 19:24:40 <tyrick> I would like to get my raspi to emulate a modern damn computer
1098 2014-04-18 19:24:41 <c0rw1n> Ø_X
1099 2014-04-18 19:24:54 <robonerd> Luke-Jr, LGBT i think you mean
1100 2014-04-18 19:24:56 <Luke-Jr> oh, not SNES. NES.
1101 2014-04-18 19:24:58 <Luke-Jr> http://retrominer.com/
1102 2014-04-18 19:25:20 <c0rw1n> a z80? omgwtfbbq that processor is unobsoletable
1103 2014-04-18 19:25:34 <robonerd> haha
1104 2014-04-18 19:25:37 <tyrick> whaaa... NES can sha256?
1105 2014-04-18 19:25:47 <tyrick> haha the z80 is beast
1106 2014-04-18 19:25:57 <c0rw1n> did you know z80s are still made and sold? for money? in real life?
1107 2014-04-18 19:25:58 <tyrick> 8080 is nice too
1108 2014-04-18 19:26:12 <Emcy> i think a lot of z80s stil end up in space
1109 2014-04-18 19:26:26 <c0rw1n> hahaha that's so aswesome
1110 2014-04-18 19:26:28 rnicoll has left ("Leaving")
1111 2014-04-18 19:26:33 <c0rw1n> it's the cockroach of processors
1112 2014-04-18 19:26:36 dims-openstack is now known as dims
1113 2014-04-18 19:26:40 <robonerd> lol
1114 2014-04-18 19:26:41 <tyrick> ya, they have a great architecture for learning about microprocessors
1115 2014-04-18 19:26:58 <tyrick> how the x86 came to be so commonly found is a mystery to me
1116 2014-04-18 19:27:06 <Emcy> its because they have so few gates that theyre pretty hard against solar radiation
1117 2014-04-18 19:27:32 <robonerd> ah that's cool
1118 2014-04-18 19:27:44 <c0rw1n> tyrick that's written up in the history of computing. network effects and historical who-mismanaged-it-worse
1119 2014-04-18 19:27:50 <c0rw1n> mostly
1120 2014-04-18 19:27:51 Luke-Jr has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1121 2014-04-18 19:28:07 bitwyre has quit ()
1122 2014-04-18 19:28:21 <Emcy> is it not because intel played the business game ruthlessly
1123 2014-04-18 19:28:27 <tyrick> haha
1124 2014-04-18 19:28:35 <c0rw1n> that's less-worse mismanagement Emcy
1125 2014-04-18 19:28:39 christophe has quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
1126 2014-04-18 19:28:46 <c0rw1n> than AMiga did, and the others
1127 2014-04-18 19:28:56 <c0rw1n> Apple...
1128 2014-04-18 19:29:01 <c0rw1n> (in the 80s)
1129 2014-04-18 19:29:26 Ashaman__ has joined
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1132 2014-04-18 19:30:07 <c0rw1n> then SGI, Sun, whoever was doing the Alpha at any given time
1133 2014-04-18 19:30:13 Ashaman_ has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
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1135 2014-04-18 19:30:16 <c0rw1n> then lolNeXTSTEP
1136 2014-04-18 19:30:47 <c0rw1n> none of them realized what "economies of scale" mean
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1142 2014-04-18 19:32:05 <c0rw1n> that's the reason why we're all on x86, until ARM catches up in perf - and network effects with having good-enough apps on their platforms (Photoshop, Office and a srs dev environment on Droid or other default option)
1143 2014-04-18 19:32:11 <maaku> sipa: you'd still have to deal with rounding modes and such though
1144 2014-04-18 19:32:49 <maaku> maybe a solution is to have some sort of CMoneyRatio helper class, which is the result of money/money calculations
1145 2014-04-18 19:33:12 <c0rw1n> hurk you're programming c++ on an 8bit??
1146 2014-04-18 19:33:14 <maaku> you can then .ToInt64() or .Round() or whatever
1147 2014-04-18 19:33:34 Luke-Jr has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1148 2014-04-18 19:33:45 <c0rw1n> does there even exist a c++ compiler which targets z80?
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1168 2014-04-18 19:59:41 <jcorgan> apparently there is indeed a gcc port
1169 2014-04-18 20:00:22 <jcorgan> http://sourceforge.net/projects/z80gcc/
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1174 2014-04-18 20:03:14 <maaku> BlueMatt: so #4067 breaks pulltester, because it changes the serialization of money values
1175 2014-04-18 20:03:36 <gmaxwell> maaku: how does that break pulltester?
1176 2014-04-18 20:03:57 <gmaxwell> or rather, why is the change network visible?
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1182 2014-04-18 20:09:43 <sipa> gmaxwell: not the comparison tool, but the wallet rpc python tests
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1184 2014-04-18 20:09:58 <sipa> it changed from -0.1 to -0.10
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1191 2014-04-18 20:13:18 <maaku> or rather, from -0.1 to u'-0.10'
1192 2014-04-18 20:13:40 <sipa> well, you can adapt the python tests yourself
1193 2014-04-18 20:14:03 <sipa> also, is that xhange necessary?
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1197 2014-04-18 20:16:02 <maaku> absolutely necessary? no, not in the context of bitcoin as by happy accident double-precision values fully contain all monetary values
1198 2014-04-18 20:16:30 <maaku> but it would be necessary if divisibility is increased, and current behavior is not becoming of a financial app
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1201 2014-04-18 20:20:26 <sipa> wait, you changed the rpc interface to strings?
1202 2014-04-18 20:20:31 <sipa> insyead of numbers?
1203 2014-04-18 20:20:35 <maaku> yes
1204 2014-04-18 20:20:42 <sipa> haha :)
1205 2014-04-18 20:21:09 <sipa> that discussion has been going on since forever
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1209 2014-04-18 20:21:17 <maaku> i know...
1210 2014-04-18 20:21:30 <sipa> i believe the latest idea was to at some point do an rpc v2 which was explicitly selectable
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1212 2014-04-18 20:21:39 <maaku> and i know this would mess up a lot of infrastructure code, not just pull tester
1213 2014-04-18 20:21:41 <sipa> but there is no way we can just change it in tje current one
1214 2014-04-18 20:21:46 <maaku> i know
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1217 2014-04-18 20:22:02 <sipa> then pulltester is very right to complain :)
1218 2014-04-18 20:22:22 <maaku> this is tightly linked to that issue though, and I wan'ted that to show up in the comments
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1228 2014-04-18 20:31:47 <maaku> sipa: I pushed a new version that has money/money removed and operator* only for integer values
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1374 2014-04-18 23:01:22 <lysobit> when will bitcoin packages for ubuntu 14.04 be available on ppa? https://launchpad.net/~bitcoin/+archive/bitcoin
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1376 2014-04-18 23:02:04 <paracyst> no clue, but it's taking me forever to upgrade to 14.04
1377 2014-04-18 23:02:08 <paracyst> :(
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