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 116 2014-04-19 01:59:13 <wallet42> https://blockchain.info/de/tx-index/42766264 wtf output script?
 117 2014-04-19 02:00:40 <owowo> try: https://blockchain.info/en/tx-index/42766264 ;)
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 119 2014-04-19 02:02:37 <owowo> what kind of wallet are you using? Bitcoin-qt or blockchain wallet?
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 121 2014-04-19 02:03:02 <wallet42> right now?
 122 2014-04-19 02:03:07 <owowo> *blockchain.info
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 124 2014-04-19 02:03:26 <owowo> yes, the wallet you made the tx with
 125 2014-04-19 02:03:41 <wallet42> none, im analyzing the blockchain for strange output types
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 127 2014-04-19 02:04:19 <owowo> ah, ok, then it could be just a blockchain.info issue
 128 2014-04-19 02:04:50 <wallet42> no its acually a compicated script
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 131 2014-04-19 02:06:15 <wallet42> OP_DUP OP_HASH160 [0-9a-f]{40} OP_EQUALVERIFY OP_CHECKSIG
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 134 2014-04-19 02:06:34 <wallet42> is for normal bitcoin addresses
 135 2014-04-19 02:06:50 <wallet42> this is quite compicated and it got solved
 136 2014-04-19 02:07:11 <saizai> would any of you be interested in commenting on our draft comments on the fec bitcoin AO drafts?
 137 2014-04-19 02:07:20 <wallet42> i wonder who put it there, why, and how did it pass isStandardTx()
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 144 2014-04-19 02:10:36 <maaku> saizai: link?
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 146 2014-04-19 02:10:48 <saizai> via pm
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 154 2014-04-19 02:20:56 <saizai> maaku: have you read the draft AOs?
 155 2014-04-19 02:21:24 <saizai> http://saos.fec.gov/aodocs/201402.pdf http://saos.fec.gov/aodocs/201402_1.pdf
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 218 2014-04-19 04:01:14 <saizai> anywho, bbl
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 294 2014-04-19 06:04:18 <gmaxwell> ::sigh:: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/4069  "As the file was automatically quarantined and deleted (I can't change SAV default settings), that crashed bitcoind and corrupted the bitcoin DB"
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 312 2014-04-19 06:23:47 <midnightmagic> :-/
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 314 2014-04-19 06:24:50 <DiabloD3> midnightmagic: probs?
 315 2014-04-19 06:25:07 <DiabloD3> [02:02:28] <gmaxwell> ::sigh:: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/4069  "As the file was automatically quarantined and deleted (I can't change SAV default settings), that crashed bitcoind and corrupted the bitcoin DB"
 316 2014-04-19 06:25:14 <DiabloD3> gmaxwell: yet another reason why to never use windows
 317 2014-04-19 06:25:30 <DiabloD3> no other OS has the scamware genre known as anti-viruses
 318 2014-04-19 06:26:20 <midnightmagic> DiabloD3: anti-virus morons writing shitty software that assumes their users are complete idiots who just play in Word all day long
 319 2014-04-19 06:26:37 <DiabloD3> if they use windows... uh... arent they?
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 334 2014-04-19 06:37:42 <warren> wumpus: ping
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 336 2014-04-19 06:39:08 <wumpus> pong
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 339 2014-04-19 06:40:18 <warren> wumpus: for the roadmap, how many weeks do we want in there now?
 340 2014-04-19 06:40:38 <warren> wumpus: and sorry, what was the command to regenerate the english strings again?
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 342 2014-04-19 06:42:39 <wumpus> warren: see doc/translation-process.md
 343 2014-04-19 06:42:58 <wumpus> warren: btw, 0.9.2 macosx builds would also be a good time to start using gitian
 344 2014-04-19 06:43:39 <warren> wumpus: I'll try to get that working in nightly builds
 345 2014-04-19 06:43:51 <warren> so, weeks?
 346 2014-04-19 06:43:55 <wumpus> warren: that would be wonderful
 347 2014-04-19 06:44:06 <wumpus> warren: I just woke up, don't ask me difficult questions :p
 348 2014-04-19 06:44:26 <warren> wumpus: 1^0?
 349 2014-04-19 06:44:52 <wumpus> warren: in any case I'd suggest that we leave at least a month between the moment of announcing 0.9.2 and the planned release
 350 2014-04-19 06:44:58 <warren> ok
 351 2014-04-19 06:45:35 <wumpus> and let's make some public announcement about those plans today (even if it's just "we plan to do a 0.9.2 from master in a month")
 352 2014-04-19 06:46:17 <warren> we have all the prereqs in place now for a detailed announcement
 353 2014-04-19 06:46:38 <wumpus> that's fine with me, but it seems to be dragging along, I don't want details of wording the announcement to delay the work :p
 354 2014-04-19 06:46:55 <warren> the work would be affected be the announcement?
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 360 2014-04-19 06:51:50 <Chief_Panda> warren, unless you regulate
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 362 2014-04-19 06:52:07 <warren> That was odd.
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 418 2014-04-19 08:03:29 <warren> Could folks please test UPNP with the nightly builds on both Linux and Windows?  It seems to inconsistently work for me depending on which wireless router is used.  Please report Windows or Linux and the model of your wireless router.
 419 2014-04-19 08:03:45 <warren> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=571414
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 487 2014-04-19 10:00:04 <shesek> I found a cool way to make phishing harder on websites that takes payments from users on a regular basis - embed a unique per-user identicon into the qr code, so that the user can visually verify he got the qr from the right server
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 502 2014-04-19 10:29:40 <jaakkos> shesek: what if you brute force similar-looking identicons?
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 543 2014-04-19 11:40:58 <rnicoll> Morning all; trying to sync Bitcoin 0.9 on a new OS install, and I've got it up to about a year ago from bootstrapping old .dat files I had kicking around. However, now it's switched to the network, it keeps stalling, and I see lots of orphan blocks in the debug.log. Restarting client fixes the problem for a while but it does recur. Waiting 10 minutes seems to clear the problem, as if client was restarted, but again
 544 2014-04-19 11:40:58 <rnicoll> recurs. Would looking at the DoS code be a reasonable place to start diagnosing this?
 545 2014-04-19 11:43:22 <sipa> no
 546 2014-04-19 11:43:38 MaxSan has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
 547 2014-04-19 11:44:03 <sipa> the block fetching algorithm is very hacky, and gets easily confused when multiple peers announce blocks
 548 2014-04-19 11:44:42 <sipa> it often stalls because of that, more if you are validating slowly
 549 2014-04-19 11:44:54 <sipa> and it picks up again when a new block is announced
 550 2014-04-19 11:45:32 <rnicoll> great, will see if we can make any improvements there, thanks
 551 2014-04-19 11:45:52 <sipa> i've been working on replacing that system for almost a year
 552 2014-04-19 11:46:03 <sipa> well, that's not true
 553 2014-04-19 11:46:13 <sipa> but we want the client to function in a different way
 554 2014-04-19 11:46:34 <sipa> where it first validates headers, and then downloads the blovks
 555 2014-04-19 11:46:41 <sipa> instead of everything at once
 556 2014-04-19 11:47:04 * rnicoll nods "I saw the stuff about getting blocks from more than a single node, as well. Is it going to be better to just keep restarting the client and wait for the whole thing to be replaced?"
 557 2014-04-19 11:47:48 <sipa> bootstrap.dat avoids this problem
 558 2014-04-19 11:48:03 <sipa> as does connecting to just a single fast peer (-connect=ip)
 559 2014-04-19 11:48:19 <sipa> also, help with testing patches is always welcome
 560 2014-04-19 11:50:01 <rnicoll> once this is sorted my next priority is a payment protocol test bed, but I'll see if I can recruit devs to help with patch testing
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 563 2014-04-19 11:53:05 <rnicoll> thanks for the explanation, very useful to know why these things happen
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 793 2014-04-19 15:04:25 <mpescador> hello everybody, i've got a question after reading the wiki page about protocol rules
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 795 2014-04-19 15:05:56 <sipa> shoot
 796 2014-04-19 15:06:08 <mpescador> does the client check for double spends in a side branch while it is still a side branch, or does it only do that when the side branch overtakes the main branch?
 797 2014-04-19 15:06:35 <sipa> only when it tries to switch to it
 798 2014-04-19 15:07:01 <sipa> it's probably the most expensive part of validation, apart from signature checking
 799 2014-04-19 15:07:06 <sipa> so it's delayed as much as possible
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 802 2014-04-19 15:07:54 <mpescador> so only when it tries to switch it, it discovers that the side branch is invalid and then rejects the entire side branch?
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 809 2014-04-19 15:10:11 <sipa> it always tries to connect blocks in the branch which 1) is not known to be invalid  2) of those, has the highest proof of work  3) of those, the ones with a tip that was seen first
 810 2014-04-19 15:10:12 <mpescador> or it probably rejects the first invalid block in the side branch, orphaning the ones that depend on it?
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 812 2014-04-19 15:10:54 <sipa> if doing so causes the validation to fail, that block and all its descendants are marked invalid
 813 2014-04-19 15:11:05 <sipa> and the algorithm runs again, likely returning to the previous branch
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 816 2014-04-19 15:12:21 <mpescador> ok thanks a lot for your answers. I was breaking my head over this one. I was trying to implement something that kept every branch valid.
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 841 2014-04-19 15:35:06 <someguy2> hi
 842 2014-04-19 15:35:08 <someguy2>  what is the standard way to include a message with a transaction ID?
 843 2014-04-19 15:35:16 <someguy2> e.g. if I publish an address on a first-come first-served basis, how can I know who sent it to me?
 844 2014-04-19 15:35:23 <someguy2> what can they do to link it to their email address for example or give me some other means of letting them know that, in this case, they're the buyer?
 845 2014-04-19 15:35:46 <Luke-Jr> nothing
 846 2014-04-19 15:36:09 <Luke-Jr> the only way to tell who sent you a payment and for what, is to control who is told the address
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 848 2014-04-19 15:37:47 <sipa> someguy2: you give a different address to every sender
 849 2014-04-19 15:37:53 <sipa> and ideally, for every transaction
 850 2014-04-19 15:38:16 <sipa> you generally don't really care who pays, only what they're paying for
 851 2014-04-19 15:38:26 <sipa> (and bitcoin has no real way to let you know who pays)
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 858 2014-04-19 15:42:34 <someguy2> Luke-Jr, that seems fairly strange/weak
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 861 2014-04-19 15:43:07 <someguy2> Luke-Jr I mean it's 'security by obscurity' or gives the address a significance like a password, even though you're supposed to communicate it publicly to receive payment
 862 2014-04-19 15:43:22 <Luke-Jr> someguy2: well, it's not security at all
 863 2014-04-19 15:43:35 <Luke-Jr> it doesn't matter who pays you, what matters is what they're paying for
 864 2014-04-19 15:43:39 <Luke-Jr> which it associated to the address
 865 2014-04-19 15:43:40 <someguy2> Supposing you did want to publish an address.  What can you then do to authenticate who you just received from?
 866 2014-04-19 15:43:48 <Luke-Jr> it's impossible
 867 2014-04-19 15:43:51 <someguy2> I know but I mean if you publish it
 868 2014-04-19 15:44:09 <someguy2> i.e. don't generate a new one for everyone who might pay for it, but simply publish it
 869 2014-04-19 15:44:13 <Luke-Jr> not supported by bitcoin
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 871 2014-04-19 15:44:23 <someguy2> okay, but how would people actually do it then?
 872 2014-04-19 15:44:30 <Luke-Jr> if you use an address more than once, then you're doing it wrong
 873 2014-04-19 15:44:40 <Luke-Jr> by giving each payment a new address
 874 2014-04-19 15:44:54 <danielpbarron> someguy2: get the sender to sign a message with his key
 875 2014-04-19 15:44:56 <someguy2> Luke-Jr it doesn't seem that horrendous to me for example to publish on our site "send donations to this address: (addy)"
 876 2014-04-19 15:45:06 contrapumpkin is now known as copumpkin
 877 2014-04-19 15:45:14 <someguy2> I mean yes everyone can see how much that address has received, but so what
 878 2014-04-19 15:45:17 <Luke-Jr> someguy2: okay, but there's no way you can know who sent it
 879 2014-04-19 15:45:26 <someguy2> danielpbarron just mentioned one
 880 2014-04-19 15:45:30 <someguy2> what do you think of that Luke-Jr
 881 2014-04-19 15:45:33 <maaku> someguy2: it is bad actually, although there is not yet a better way to do it
 882 2014-04-19 15:45:34 <Luke-Jr> someguy2: they can also rob anything sent to that address in some cases
 883 2014-04-19 15:45:44 <someguy2> what!
 884 2014-04-19 15:45:53 <Luke-Jr> danielpbarron: there is no standard for that.
 885 2014-04-19 15:45:55 <someguy2> explain....
 886 2014-04-19 15:46:05 <someguy2> explain that rob statement
 887 2014-04-19 15:46:10 <christop1e> danielpbarron: Doesn't work for any wallet with cosigners, web wallets, etc.
 888 2014-04-19 15:46:12 <danielpbarron> someguy2: you can encrypt the message containing the address to be more sure that only one individual can know to send to it
 889 2014-04-19 15:46:17 <Luke-Jr> someguy2: too technical to explain
 890 2014-04-19 15:46:32 <someguy2> Luke-Jr, well what's the upshot (without getting into how/why)
 891 2014-04-19 15:47:06 <Luke-Jr> someguy2: upshot is don't use addresses more than once
 892 2014-04-19 15:47:19 <someguy2> just given a bitcoin address, to what extent can it be robbed
 893 2014-04-19 15:47:24 <someguy2> and in what cases
 894 2014-04-19 15:47:27 <Luke-Jr> unknown
 895 2014-04-19 15:47:30 <christop1e> someguy2: Address reuse removes one of the layers of protection you have (hashing of the public key). Some defective wallets have gotten bit by this.
 896 2014-04-19 15:47:41 <Luke-Jr> christop1e: and non-defective
 897 2014-04-19 15:48:21 <christop1e> Just a second now.
 898 2014-04-19 15:48:34 <someguy2> christople - I get that the transactions coming into it can be linked up as all coming to me.  For exmaple, if we publish a donations address, then obviously everyone sending their can be seen to be donating to the site.
 899 2014-04-19 15:48:39 <christop1e> I know of no such cases.
 900 2014-04-19 15:48:45 <someguy2> sending there*
 901 2014-04-19 15:48:46 <Luke-Jr> christop1e: side-channel stuff
 902 2014-04-19 15:48:56 <christop1e> OK, arguably true.
 903 2014-04-19 15:49:18 <Luke-Jr> http://eprint.iacr.org/2014/161.pdf
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 905 2014-04-19 15:50:43 <christop1e> I would put that under "defective wallets", but that's just arguing semantics. Either way, changing addresses every time is a good idea.
 906 2014-04-19 15:51:26 <Luke-Jr> christop1e: an exploit that relies on unsupported functionality (address reuse) is not a defect.
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 908 2014-04-19 15:52:40 <someguy2> I dont' get why you shouldn't be able to publish an address
 909 2014-04-19 15:52:52 <someguy2> it's just the standard mental model everyone would use.
 910 2014-04-19 15:52:58 <Luke-Jr> someguy2: you can publish it, just be aware of the ramifications
 911 2014-04-19 15:53:13 <someguy2> you just said that the ramification is that my buyers/donators/etc can start stealing from each other!
 912 2014-04-19 15:53:15 <Luke-Jr> someguy2: well, that's because we're using the wrong-mental-model terminology "address"
 913 2014-04-19 15:53:21 <Luke-Jr> when it really should be called an "invoice id"
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 915 2014-04-19 15:53:33 <someguy2> Luke-Jr, very very very good point.  so change it.  don't call it an address.
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 919 2014-04-19 15:53:45 <Luke-Jr> someguy2: go for it, I'll back you up
 920 2014-04-19 15:53:46 <christop1e> Luke-Jr: General cryptosystems shouldn't leak information about private keys, that's definitely a defect. Bitcoin can deal with that, but PGP/other uses can't.
 921 2014-04-19 15:53:49 <someguy2> Luke-Jr, invoice-id is a perfect word for it.
 922 2014-04-19 15:53:50 <GAit> someguy2: some wallets generate new addresses from master public key in a deterministic fashion, even for donation buttons
 923 2014-04-19 15:54:01 <christop1e> ^
 924 2014-04-19 15:54:10 <christop1e> Do that instead.
 925 2014-04-19 15:54:30 <someguy2> I heard about stealth addresses, I suppose that can solve the issue of publishing something.
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 927 2014-04-19 15:54:44 <christop1e> Nothing supports those.
 928 2014-04-19 15:54:49 <someguy2> oh okay
 929 2014-04-19 15:54:53 banghouse has joined
 930 2014-04-19 15:55:05 <GAit> and even then isn't the master public published?
 931 2014-04-19 15:55:05 <christop1e> What is it you're trying to do at a high level?
 932 2014-04-19 15:55:36 <someguy2> christop1e, just publish a donations link and let people send me verification of their donation so I can email them thanks/reward/newsletter/tec
 933 2014-04-19 15:55:38 <someguy2> etc
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 935 2014-04-19 15:56:05 <someguy2> so ideally I would publish a static address but there is some way for someone to send a message (with their email address) to the address as well as payment
 936 2014-04-19 15:56:10 <christop1e> There's no sane mechanism for them to associate an email address after the fact.
 937 2014-04-19 15:56:34 <someguy2> christop1e, I see.
 938 2014-04-19 15:56:48 <christop1e> Best way is to make them enter the email address 1st, then provide a one-time payment/donation address.
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 940 2014-04-19 15:57:31 <christop1e> That's what BitPay and every merchant platform do.
 941 2014-04-19 15:57:47 <someguy2> christop1e, what if another service authenticated a sending address.  (then I wouldn't have to code that up).  That other service would give them a uniquely identifying series of exact amounts to pay like 0.0001584337438746 and so forth.  And if they do that, they prove htey control that address and have identified with that service.
 942 2014-04-19 15:57:58 johnsoft has joined
 943 2014-04-19 15:58:18 <christop1e> Are you trying to avoid needing to run a server?
 944 2014-04-19 15:58:25 <someguy2> yes, I don't want to code this stuff
 945 2014-04-19 15:58:29 <someguy2> I want to publish a static site
 946 2014-04-19 15:58:47 <christop1e> And process the thanks part manually?
 947 2014-04-19 15:58:48 <someguy2> also I'm not great at security so it's not like I'm the best person to create one-time payment addresses etc
 948 2014-04-19 15:58:51 <someguy2> yes
 949 2014-04-19 15:58:52 <someguy2> exactly
 950 2014-04-19 15:58:57 <christop1e> Ok.
 951 2014-04-19 15:58:59 <christop1e> 1 sec.
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 953 2014-04-19 15:59:31 <Luke-Jr> someguy2: there is no such thing as a sending address
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 955 2014-04-19 16:00:11 <christop1e> Are you against using a third party? Because I'm pretty sure you can setup a donate link from bitpay that they then email you for every payment. Much cleaner than rolling your own, no fees if you don't convert to fiat.
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 961 2014-04-19 16:02:22 <someguy2> Luke-Jr oh okay.  I thought just like receiving address, there are sending addresses
 962 2014-04-19 16:02:31 <Luke-Jr> nope
 963 2014-04-19 16:02:35 <Luke-Jr> addresses are only used to receive
 964 2014-04-19 16:02:40 <someguy2> OK
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 966 2014-04-19 16:03:09 <someguy2> I think it's a bit much to ask everyone to do a handshake to securely pass each other a unique receiving address
 967 2014-04-19 16:03:23 <someguy2> the protocol should support sending identification together with payment
 968 2014-04-19 16:03:24 <Luke-Jr> oh well, that's how bitcoin works
 969 2014-04-19 16:03:32 <someguy2> well i suggest you try to figure it out :)
 970 2014-04-19 16:03:34 <christophe> It doesn't have to be secure. Just unique.
 971 2014-04-19 16:03:44 <someguy2> I think using bitpay is frankly a bit like using a bank - i.e. defeats the idea behind bitcoin :)
 972 2014-04-19 16:03:59 <Luke-Jr> someguy2: payment protocol does all the negotiation for you
 973 2014-04-19 16:04:05 <christophe> An eavesdropper gets nothing (except the loss of privacy).
 974 2014-04-19 16:04:06 <Luke-Jr> without addresses
 975 2014-04-19 16:04:36 <someguy2> Luke-Jr not everything, the payment protocol doesn't give out a unique address or identify you to the person you're donating to.  you still have to do both parts manually (or use bitpay)
 976 2014-04-19 16:04:36 <christophe> He doesn't want to run a server, makes that a lot trickier.
 977 2014-04-19 16:04:49 <someguy2> yes, I just want to publish a static page
 978 2014-04-19 16:05:06 <Luke-Jr> someguy2: the payment protocol doesn't use addresses
 979 2014-04-19 16:05:07 <someguy2> btw there's lots of read-only non-server content out there, like printed works.  not everything is a live server :)
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 981 2014-04-19 16:05:11 <christophe> someguy2: Payment protocol *does* give you a new address every time.
 982 2014-04-19 16:05:12 <jakov> "idea behind bitcoin"
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 984 2014-04-19 16:06:05 <Luke-Jr> hm, I'd think the payment protocol collects some identifier of what you're sending for
 985 2014-04-19 16:06:06 <someguy2> also if i run a server, even if i figure it out, it becomes a target for hackres
 986 2014-04-19 16:06:08 <someguy2> hackers
 987 2014-04-19 16:06:13 <someguy2> so they can can rewrite addresses to their own.
 988 2014-04-19 16:06:16 <christophe> Memo field
 989 2014-04-19 16:06:18 <someguy2> with static content i can verify from anywhere
 990 2014-04-19 16:06:23 <Luke-Jr> christophe: you can't have a webpage without a server
 991 2014-04-19 16:06:36 yubrew has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
 992 2014-04-19 16:06:41 <christophe> He probably hosts on an S3 bucket or something.
 993 2014-04-19 16:06:46 ryanxcha_ has joined
 994 2014-04-19 16:06:47 <christophe> It's a thing.
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 996 2014-04-19 16:07:29 <christophe> someguy2: If you're worried about address rewriting, I assume your static pages are served over https?
 997 2014-04-19 16:07:59 <GAit> Luke-Jr: do you which of the few trojan/malware  was the one that managed to do the most damages? I've been reading on CoinThief (win and mac) and another one that swaps addresses in the clipboard but I was wondering if there was anything more advanced
 998 2014-04-19 16:08:24 maraoz has joined
 999 2014-04-19 16:08:25 <Luke-Jr> GAit: no, I don't follow malware
1000 2014-04-19 16:08:40 <GAit> mind discussing them from a theoretical point of view?
1001 2014-04-19 16:08:42 <someguy2> christophe - good point.  but at least i could verify what is being served, if someone is served something differnet they might alert me
1002 2014-04-19 16:09:17 <Luke-Jr> GAit: from a theoretical point of view, malware should just flash the BIOS on hard drives so they don't start
1003 2014-04-19 16:09:18 <christophe> How? adddresses all are human unfriendly.
1004 2014-04-19 16:09:42 <GAit> Luke-Jr: I was talking about bitcoin stealing malware
1005 2014-04-19 16:09:42 <Luke-Jr> effectively ban anyone incompetent enough to get infected from computers
1006 2014-04-19 16:09:44 <Luke-Jr> <.<
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1009 2014-04-19 16:10:07 <christophe> I can trivially generate an address that shares the first few characters with yours.
1010 2014-04-19 16:10:19 <christophe> Enough to trick people.
1011 2014-04-19 16:10:20 <GAit> and i don't know stats really well but most computers are infected from _something_
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1013 2014-04-19 16:10:42 <Luke-Jr> GAit: I have no sympathy for people who let their computers get infected.
1014 2014-04-19 16:11:00 <GAit> Luke-Jr: there are zero days exploits
1015 2014-04-19 16:11:05 <someguy2> btw I just want to reiterate how fantastic the idea is to rename it "invoice-ID".  Until luke-jr said it I didn't really get what you guys were talking about
1016 2014-04-19 16:11:11 <someguy2> about reusing receiving addresses.
1017 2014-04-19 16:11:32 <Luke-Jr> GAit: responsible for a tiny fraction of infections
1018 2014-04-19 16:11:38 <someguy2> I guess it could be introduced in software as "invoice-id (previously known as receiving address)"
1019 2014-04-19 16:11:57 <GAit> Luke-Jr: ok so i have simpathy for that tiny fraction at least :)
1020 2014-04-19 16:12:26 <christophe> Addresses were never meand to be user facing. Satoshi had a "Pay to IP address" feature he thought would become standard
1021 2014-04-19 16:12:52 <christophe> Which is what the payment protocol is supposed to replace.
1022 2014-04-19 16:12:53 <GAit> christophe: that could be spoofed right somehow?
1023 2014-04-19 16:13:09 <christophe> Yes, that's why it was disabled early on.
1024 2014-04-19 16:13:30 <GAit> surprising from satoshi given the rest
1025 2014-04-19 16:13:48 <jakov> and payment protocol is meant to use ssl to stop the spoofing
1026 2014-04-19 16:14:43 <christophe> Yep. Payment protocol is basically the successor, with all the security risks worked out.
1027 2014-04-19 16:15:39 <Luke-Jr> s/all/most of/
1028 2014-04-19 16:16:00 <GAit> Luke-Jr: you mean still relies on CA?
1029 2014-04-19 16:16:07 <christophe> Is that a jab at PKI? :P
1030 2014-04-19 16:16:25 <Luke-Jr> GAit: yes
1031 2014-04-19 16:16:39 <GAit> fair enough
1032 2014-04-19 16:16:43 <jakov> would it have been vunerable to heartbleed?
1033 2014-04-19 16:16:51 <Luke-Jr> jakov: it was.
1034 2014-04-19 16:16:51 <jakov> about a week ago, had it been out
1035 2014-04-19 16:17:01 <Luke-Jr> jakov: that's why 0.9.0 had a mandatory upgrade to 0.9.1
1036 2014-04-19 16:17:03 <christophe> It was, but that's the transport layer.
1037 2014-04-19 16:17:32 <christophe> A PGP-signed request would have the same problem if sent over https.
1038 2014-04-19 16:17:47 <jakov> i assume bitcoin addresses will always work? if so you could always use pgp signatures and weboftrust
1039 2014-04-19 16:18:13 <Luke-Jr> see what christophe said
1040 2014-04-19 16:18:19 <jakov> though might become harder cause of network effects (all the noobs dont know how to use pgp)
1041 2014-04-19 16:18:33 <Elriel> bitcoin address will work as long as ECDSA is not broken badly enough and 160 bits is strong enough to keep the coins safe.
1042 2014-04-19 16:18:40 <GAit> jakov: or webfinger + webfist and DKIM-signed email
1043 2014-04-19 16:18:43 <someguy2> bt whow big is the heartbleed magic packet? is there a chance agencies could have dicsovered it exhaustively (thru fuzz testing)
1044 2014-04-19 16:18:45 <someguy2> btw*
1045 2014-04-19 16:18:51 <christophe> I'm very confident someone will push for an extension that allows for pgp signatures soonish.
1046 2014-04-19 16:19:37 <christophe> someguy2: not a magic packet, AFAIK. Probably doable.
1047 2014-04-19 16:19:56 <someguy2> christophe can you find an example of the attack packets online
1048 2014-04-19 16:19:59 <someguy2> so i can see the length
1049 2014-04-19 16:21:22 <christophe> http://blog.didierstevens.com/2014/04/10/heartbleed-packet-capture-full-tls/ seems to have an example capture.
1050 2014-04-19 16:23:07 <someguy2> kind of hard to read
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1052 2014-04-19 16:23:49 <christophe> Code that generates the packets https://github.com/HackerFantastic/Public/blob/master/exploits/heartbleed.c
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1054 2014-04-19 16:24:20 <someguy2> nobody publishes just the packets (no additional context around it)
1055 2014-04-19 16:24:26 <someguy2> e.g. in a blog write-up etc
1056 2014-04-19 16:24:40 <someguy2> I thought I saw it somewhere
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1061 2014-04-19 16:27:36 <christophe> https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6520 has the core structure. The exploit is just making the length longer than the payload actually is.
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1064 2014-04-19 16:30:33 <someguy2> but i mean that would imply an incredibly short packet
1065 2014-04-19 16:30:42 <someguy2> so fuzz testing could come up with that easily, exhaustively..
1066 2014-04-19 16:31:04 <someguy2> i.e. without someone intelligently looking for it - if they just try throwing all possible packets at a given state exhaustively any agency would have found it
1067 2014-04-19 16:33:53 <christophe> They'd have to know what they're looking for, but yes.
1068 2014-04-19 16:34:37 <someguy2> ok
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1086 2014-04-19 17:04:11 <shesek> jaakkos, how would you brute force it? you can't tell how close you are, only the user can
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1103 2014-04-19 17:25:55 jordandotdev has joined
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1105 2014-04-19 17:34:02 <tyrick> Where is the main() function located?
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1108 2014-04-19 17:34:47 <tyrick> Is there any documentation for this code?
1109 2014-04-19 17:35:02 Milanito has quit (Client Quit)
1110 2014-04-19 17:35:20 <tyrick> (I am not talking about the wiki, which is more of an abstract overview)
1111 2014-04-19 17:35:35 Milanito has joined
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1113 2014-04-19 17:39:47 <tyrick> nvm
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1115 2014-04-19 17:39:52 <tyrick> I see it is in bitcoind.cpp
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1117 2014-04-19 17:39:56 <tyrick> which called AppInit()
1118 2014-04-19 17:40:43 Milanito has joined
1119 2014-04-19 17:40:43 <tyrick> I am still interested in documentation if it exists
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1129 2014-04-19 17:45:21 <BCB> tyrick btcd has excellent documentation
1130 2014-04-19 17:48:56 BCB is now known as BCB`
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1132 2014-04-19 17:49:33 BCB` is now known as BCB-
1133 2014-04-19 17:49:41 <Luke-Jr> BCB-: it does? we should copy it
1134 2014-04-19 17:49:43 <Luke-Jr> :P
1135 2014-04-19 17:49:46 BCB- is now known as BCB
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1137 2014-04-19 17:50:17 <Arnavion> Pfft, docs are for the weak
1138 2014-04-19 17:50:31 <BCB> Luke-Jr, https://github.com/conformal/btcd/wiki
1139 2014-04-19 17:50:31 <tyrick> btcd seems to have better comments
1140 2014-04-19 17:51:35 <tyrick> Thats about it
1141 2014-04-19 17:52:08 BCB is now known as BCB`
1142 2014-04-19 17:55:21 <Luke-Jr> BCB: woosh
1143 2014-04-19 17:55:27 yubrew has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1144 2014-04-19 17:56:56 <BCB`> Luke-Jr, you are a troll.  I just ignore you silly comments
1145 2014-04-19 17:57:11 BCB` is now known as BCB
1146 2014-04-19 17:57:37 <BCB> nick time I see you walking around at a conference in you pj's I'm going to pants you.
1147 2014-04-19 17:58:01 <Luke-Jr> O.o
1148 2014-04-19 17:58:09 <tyrick> I'll just follow the flow of the program, and jerk off when I get bored
1149 2014-04-19 17:58:47 <tyrick> this is what you all have done to me without having good documentation
1150 2014-04-19 17:58:51 <tyrick> you have made me a monster
1151 2014-04-19 18:00:37 <BCB> tyrick, hope you have enough jizz
1152 2014-04-19 18:00:42 phantomspark has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1153 2014-04-19 18:01:29 ericmuyser has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1154 2014-04-19 18:01:34 <tyrick> What a strange thing to wish upon another
1155 2014-04-19 18:02:03 grau has joined
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1157 2014-04-19 18:05:22 <BCB> ;;ident bcb`
1158 2014-04-19 18:05:23 <gribble> Error: I am not seeing this user on IRC. If you want information about a registered gpg user, try the 'gpg info' command instead.
1159 2014-04-19 18:05:36 <BCB> ;;ident `bcb
1160 2014-04-19 18:05:36 <gribble> Error: I am not seeing this user on IRC. If you want information about a registered gpg user, try the 'gpg info' command instead.
1161 2014-04-19 18:06:09 <BCB> sorry
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1186 2014-04-19 18:30:24 <bawse> Selling a cointerra 1.6th does 1583GH steady, will accept bitcoin or $6200 cash deposit. PM's are welcome.
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1190 2014-04-19 18:33:44 <maaku> bawse: #bitcoin-otc, not here
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1343 2014-04-19 20:19:23 <wallet42> i just realized, all the superheroes (spiderman, superman, batman) are anonymous too. isn't it the same with satoshi?
1344 2014-04-19 20:19:52 <sipa> offtopic
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1376 2014-04-19 20:50:48 <melvin> if i take the double sha256 of a block header should it *start* 0000 or *end* 0000 ?
1377 2014-04-19 20:51:23 <sipa> the bytes should start with 0000
1378 2014-04-19 20:51:33 <melvin> sipa: thanks
1379 2014-04-19 20:51:35 <sipa> bitcoin interprets the result as a little-endian number though
1380 2014-04-19 20:51:40 easye has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1381 2014-04-19 20:51:44 <sipa> which makes it seem as if the 0000s are at the end
1382 2014-04-19 20:52:11 * melvin head explodes
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1390 2014-04-19 20:57:12 <melvin> sipa: so is the hash really a string or a number?
1391 2014-04-19 20:57:26 <sipa> melvin: depends :)
1392 2014-04-19 20:57:31 <melvin> lol
1393 2014-04-19 20:58:02 <sipa> the sha256 algorithm interprets the hash result as a series of 8 32-bit big endian integers
1394 2014-04-19 20:58:13 <sipa> bitcoin interprets it as a single 256-bit little endian integer
1395 2014-04-19 20:58:28 <sipa> some mining protocols just consider it as a byte array
1396 2014-04-19 20:58:40 <melvin> which is 'correct'?
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1399 2014-04-19 20:59:44 <sipa> all of them
1400 2014-04-19 20:59:46 <melvin> 8 32-bit big endian numbers is like one 256-bit big endian number right?
1401 2014-04-19 21:00:17 <sipa> it's like asking whether a dictionary consists of words or of characters
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1405 2014-04-19 21:00:28 <melvin> ah, i see
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1408 2014-04-19 21:01:05 <bitmonster> hello
1409 2014-04-19 21:02:36 <bitmonster> can I copy my wallet .dat over to a linux system and run it or will it have to sync over if so how
1410 2014-04-19 21:02:46 <bitmonster> iam on win7 now
1411 2014-04-19 21:02:51 <sipa> syncing is independent from the wallet file
1412 2014-04-19 21:03:03 <sipa> if you have a linux system that has a synced datadir, sure
1413 2014-04-19 21:03:13 <sipa> or if you copy the blocks and chainstate directories along with it
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1415 2014-04-19 21:03:20 <bitmonster> how do get walle.dat into the new sys
1416 2014-04-19 21:03:38 <sipa> copy it?
1417 2014-04-19 21:04:00 <sipa> to the data dir: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Data_directory
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1421 2014-04-19 21:05:03 <bitmonster> well I tried to copy my everything over to another win 7 computer and it did not work
1422 2014-04-19 21:05:21 <bitmonster> just started sync form the begining
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1427 2014-04-19 21:13:02 <BlueMatt> warren: you know we've had nightly bitcoin builds for several years now, right?
1428 2014-04-19 21:14:48 <bitmonster> sipa   am I doing somthing wronge when I copy everything over to a new coputer why is it synching from the begining
1429 2014-04-19 21:15:05 <bitmonster> instaid of 2 minuts
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1432 2014-04-19 21:15:16 <sipa> bitmonster: did you copy while bitcoin was running?
1433 2014-04-19 21:15:26 <sipa> BlueMatt: i didn't
1434 2014-04-19 21:15:48 <bitmonster> no I colsed everything down copied to an externel and copyied over to new
1435 2014-04-19 21:16:04 <bitmonster> reverse that
1436 2014-04-19 21:16:16 <BlueMatt> sipa: jenkins?
1437 2014-04-19 21:16:23 <BlueMatt> better-than-nightly even
1438 2014-04-19 21:16:56 <sipa> BlueMatt: didn't know its resulting binaries were available somewhere
1439 2014-04-19 21:17:40 <BlueMatt> they have been for like 3 years......
1440 2014-04-19 21:17:47 <BlueMatt> oh, well "Last success - 4 mo"
1441 2014-04-19 21:18:10 <bitmonster> copied to externel closed everything and restarte copiewd over to new location
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1445 2014-04-19 21:18:56 <bitmonster> are u suposed to copy while running
1446 2014-04-19 21:19:00 <sipa> no
1447 2014-04-19 21:19:06 <BlueMatt> looks like a legitimate bug in bitcoind though
1448 2014-04-19 21:19:20 <sipa> BlueMatt: strange that pulltester doesn't complain
1449 2014-04-19 21:19:39 <BlueMatt> I thought pulltester didnt run the java test program thing?
1450 2014-04-19 21:19:54 nsh_ has joined
1451 2014-04-19 21:20:02 <sipa> it doesn't? :o
1452 2014-04-19 21:20:11 <BlueMatt> i dont remember
1453 2014-04-19 21:20:18 nsh has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1454 2014-04-19 21:20:30 <sipa> 05:59:43 10 BitcoindComparisonTool.main: Done testing.
1455 2014-04-19 21:20:33 <sipa> from pulltester
1456 2014-04-19 21:20:34 <BlueMatt> hmm, yea it does
1457 2014-04-19 21:20:46 <BlueMatt> oh, yea
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1461 2014-04-19 21:20:49 <BlueMatt> it doesnt run the full one
1462 2014-04-19 21:21:02 <BlueMatt> it runs it but doesnt do the full heavy block reorg test
1463 2014-04-19 21:21:06 <BlueMatt> which is where its failing
1464 2014-04-19 21:21:12 <BlueMatt> (getting a connection drop_
1465 2014-04-19 21:21:13 <BlueMatt> )
1466 2014-04-19 21:21:55 <sipa> oh!
1467 2014-04-19 21:21:56 <bitmonster> THIS IS NOT INSPIREING MUCH CONFIDANCE IN ME
1468 2014-04-19 21:22:16 <sipa> bitmonster: #bitcoin please
1469 2014-04-19 21:22:33 <sipa> BlueMatt: we should fix that!
1470 2014-04-19 21:22:40 <sipa> any hints?
1471 2014-04-19 21:22:43 <BlueMatt> pulltester cant, it cant keep up
1472 2014-04-19 21:22:46 <BlueMatt> thats why jenkins is a thing
1473 2014-04-19 21:22:55 <BlueMatt> but someone disabled the irc notification so no one noticed it failed for 6 months
1474 2014-04-19 21:22:59 <sipa> i mean, we should fix whatever is causing that test to fail
1475 2014-04-19 21:23:11 <BlueMatt> yes
1476 2014-04-19 21:23:30 <bitmonster> well the main reson I came here is becaouse I wnat in on the dev but if I can t get this to work quite redilly I may have to ditch
1477 2014-04-19 21:24:01 <sipa> bitmonster: copy the datadir (including blocks/ and chainstate/ dir) if bitcoin is not running should work
1478 2014-04-19 21:24:07 <bitmonster> which would be a shame becaouse it looks like a very lucritive deal
1479 2014-04-19 21:24:18 <sipa> lucrative deal?
1480 2014-04-19 21:24:28 <bitmonster> hmmm does not
1481 2014-04-19 21:24:39 <sipa> then you're doing something wrong, like copying to the wrong place
1482 2014-04-19 21:24:49 <sipa> i'm sure there are more people in #bitcoin who can help you
1483 2014-04-19 21:25:00 <bitmonster> the wicke said u can copy to a new location no prob
1484 2014-04-19 21:25:11 <sipa> BlueMatt: this would have been interesting to know 4 months ago
1485 2014-04-19 21:25:20 <sipa> BlueMatt: i had no idea about a heavy/light test mode
1486 2014-04-19 21:25:20 <bitmonster> the link u just gave me or did I misunderstand
1487 2014-04-19 21:25:35 <sipa> bitmonster: sorry, this channel is about development, not support
1488 2014-04-19 21:25:41 <sipa> bitmonster: i've told you what i know
1489 2014-04-19 21:25:51 <bitmonster> got it thank u
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1492 2014-04-19 21:26:03 <BlueMatt> sipa: yes, it would have been
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1561 2014-04-19 22:30:37 <melvin> is the index of the coinbase "000000" string or 0 number?
1562 2014-04-19 22:30:51 <melvin> oh wiat
1563 2014-04-19 22:30:54 <melvin> it's ffffff
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1565 2014-04-19 22:31:13 <melvin> but are these numbers or strings?
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1587 2014-04-19 22:44:30 <warren> BlueMatt: if the jenkins builds are determinstic and easy to reproduce using gitian then good.
1588 2014-04-19 22:44:47 <warren> BlueMatt: otherwise I like making such builds with arbitrary combinations of PR's
1589 2014-04-19 22:45:43 <shesek> can anyone help me verify my key derivation implementation is correct? https://gist.github.com/shesek/917c76926ef3484b9f23
1590 2014-04-19 22:46:29 <shesek> its quite simple and doesn't have much room for error... but just to be sure
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1594 2014-04-19 22:49:21 <sipa> melvin: an index is a number
1595 2014-04-19 22:49:40 <melvin> sipa: ah cool ... makes life easier
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1639 2014-04-19 23:31:35 <tyrick> does testnet really need a blockchain over a year long
1640 2014-04-19 23:33:38 <melvin> tyrick: sure, why not?
1641 2014-04-19 23:33:54 <melvin> try testnet in a box if you want a shorter one
1642 2014-04-19 23:34:27 <melvin> you'll find there's much fewer tx in the testnet tho
1643 2014-04-19 23:34:27 sbp has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
1644 2014-04-19 23:34:30 <melvin> many have just 1 or 2
1645 2014-04-19 23:34:39 <melvin> so it downloads real fast
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1647 2014-04-19 23:35:00 <tyrick> taking forever to sync
1648 2014-04-19 23:35:08 <tyrick> testnet in a box?
1649 2014-04-19 23:36:09 Zarutian has joined
1650 2014-04-19 23:37:07 <Luke-Jr> melvin: testnet-in-a-box is broken
1651 2014-04-19 23:37:14 <melvin> oh
1652 2014-04-19 23:37:38 <freewil> sourceforge one? i forked it, https://github.com/freewil/bitcoin-testnet-box
1653 2014-04-19 23:38:02 <freewil> i need to update it for 0.9, to use -regtest
1654 2014-04-19 23:38:17 <freewil> but other than that, it works
1655 2014-04-19 23:38:37 <tyrick> nice, -regtest was like 3 years work of data
1656 2014-04-19 23:38:47 <Luke-Jr> freewil: -regtest does not work for TNIAB, afaik
1657 2014-04-19 23:39:11 brson has quit (Quit: leaving)
1658 2014-04-19 23:39:20 <tyrick> worth*
1659 2014-04-19 23:39:35 <tyrick> geez, I'll just be patient and sync
1660 2014-04-19 23:39:42 <freewil> -regtest doesnt seem to work in -testnet mode
1661 2014-04-19 23:40:09 <freewil> so whenever i get around to updating it, it'll be in "live" mode probably but it will still be a private network
1662 2014-04-19 23:40:32 danielpbarron has quit (Quit: poker time!)
1663 2014-04-19 23:40:43 <freewil> at least that is how i recalling that it works when i tried it a few months ago
1664 2014-04-19 23:42:13 JackH has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1665 2014-04-19 23:43:01 <tyrick> What's the best way to use debug statements with this code?
1666 2014-04-19 23:43:07 BCB is now known as BCB`
1667 2014-04-19 23:43:29 BCB` is now known as ```````BCB
1668 2014-04-19 23:43:48 <tyrick> I am not a C++ guy at all.  At this point, I might as well use print statements and recompile each time I want to look at something
1669 2014-04-19 23:43:50 ```````BCB is now known as `````BCB``````
1670 2014-04-19 23:44:17 `````BCB`````` is now known as BCB
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