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   4 2014-04-25 00:04:27 <modyn> how long time should it take for make bitcoind on linux debian 7?
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  12 2014-04-25 00:12:52 <sipa> modyn: depends a lot on number of cpu cores (and hiw many you use), and how much ram you have
  13 2014-04-25 00:12:56 <sipa> the os hardly matterd
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 105 2014-04-25 01:57:02 <Cray-on-> Join us at #bitember and suggest charities you'd like to see us donate to in next weeks donation frenzy
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 107 2014-04-25 01:58:10 <Cray-on-> We will donate all donations AND fees from our pools for 48 hours starting saturday next week! So come one in to #bitember
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 116 2014-04-25 02:07:28 <modyn> bitcoind getblockcount
 117 2014-04-25 02:07:28 <modyn> error: server returned HTTP error 403
 118 2014-04-25 02:07:31 <modyn> how do i fix this?
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 313 2014-04-25 06:48:40 <maaku> Cray-on-: donations to charities is nice but off-topic
 314 2014-04-25 06:52:49 gimmetime has joined
 315 2014-04-25 06:52:52 <mappum> does Bitcoin Core RPC start throttling after making lots of requests to it really fast? it seems to keep breaking after a while
 316 2014-04-25 06:55:37 grau has joined
 317 2014-04-25 06:56:04 <sipa> no, but there could be problems resulting from opening and closing the many tcp connections for that
 318 2014-04-25 06:56:21 <sipa> after how many requests are we talking?
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 326 2014-04-25 07:02:42 <mappum> a few thousand. but each one is multiple batched RPC calls
 327 2014-04-25 07:03:15 <mappum> then after a while, a request will get a ECONNREFUSED
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 335 2014-04-25 07:08:04 <[Mr`X]> hello to all
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 339 2014-04-25 07:09:36 <wumpus> mappum: well there is a maximum number of incoming connections, or is each request waiting for the previous one to finish?
 340 2014-04-25 07:10:07 <mappum> they are each waiting
 341 2014-04-25 07:10:30 <wumpus> do the requests fail somehow? anything in debug.log?
 342 2014-04-25 07:10:34 <[Mr`X]> i need some information there is somebody can help me please?
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 344 2014-04-25 07:10:56 <wumpus> [Mr`X]: don't ask to ask, just ask
 345 2014-04-25 07:11:48 <wumpus> seems that this is a known issue : https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/2889
 346 2014-04-25 07:12:19 <wumpus> or this: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/3968
 347 2014-04-25 07:12:57 <[Mr`X]> i mining from my laptop core i5 with windows with minerd
 348 2014-04-25 07:13:00 <wumpus> but the latter happens 'if RPC requests get interrupted'
 349 2014-04-25 07:13:20 <mappum> mine is the first one then
 350 2014-04-25 07:13:32 <mappum> that issue was closed though
 351 2014-04-25 07:13:36 <[Mr`X]> but after more time   3.40 khash/s accepted: 0/2207 (0.00%), 9.33 khash/s (booooo)
 352 2014-04-25 07:13:43 <mappum> oh, on dogecoin
 353 2014-04-25 07:13:52 <wumpus> no, it wasn't closed
 354 2014-04-25 07:14:40 <[Mr`X]> what i wrong?
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 357 2014-04-25 07:18:53 <mappum> cool, looks like a small wait between requests fixes it
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 424 2014-04-25 08:42:33 <warren> sirk390: http://wtogami.blogspot.com/2013/05/openssl-with-ecdsa-for-fedora-18.html
 425 2014-04-25 08:44:55 Cocodude has joined
 426 2014-04-25 08:45:03 <Cocodude> Has anyone ever had an issue where bitcoind forgets to add a txn fee even though paytxfee here is set to 0.0001?
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 511 2014-04-25 10:59:37 <darsie> hey
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 514 2014-04-25 11:00:54 <darsie> How do I use bitcoin 0.9.1 with debian stable (7.4 "wheezy")?
 515 2014-04-25 11:01:21 nsh_ has joined
 516 2014-04-25 11:01:23 <darsie> bitcoin-qt: /lib/i386-linux-gnu/i686/cmov/libc.so.6: version `GLIBC_2.15' not found (required by bitcoin-qt)
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 520 2014-04-25 11:04:22 <darsie> I have libc6-i686:i386                        2.13-38+deb7u1
 521 2014-04-25 11:04:28 jtcwang has joined
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 523 2014-04-25 11:05:16 <darsie> Am I meant to compile it?
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 528 2014-04-25 11:07:41 <SomeoneWeird> eugh, glibc
 529 2014-04-25 11:07:42 * SomeoneWeird sighs
 530 2014-04-25 11:07:48 <darsie> Or install a newer glibc?
 531 2014-04-25 11:08:34 <SomeoneWeird> you can't, really
 532 2014-04-25 11:08:47 <darsie> can't install a newer glibc?
 533 2014-04-25 11:08:49 <SomeoneWeird> i think unstable still has an outdate version
 534 2014-04-25 11:09:02 <SomeoneWeird> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=522639.0
 535 2014-04-25 11:09:25 <SomeoneWeird> oh, looks like unstable has the required (still old :p) version
 536 2014-04-25 11:09:50 <SomeoneWeird> i'd be wary about doing that though, if glibc breaks... everything breaks
 537 2014-04-25 11:10:14 papa2 has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
 538 2014-04-25 11:10:22 <darsie> If I can compile it, could you do that, too, with the debian stable glibc and put that in your package?
 539 2014-04-25 11:10:48 damethos has joined
 540 2014-04-25 11:10:53 <darsie> Or do you require features of the new glibc?
 541 2014-04-25 11:11:14 <SomeoneWeird> i'm not sure, i'm not a btc dev
 542 2014-04-25 11:12:50 banghouse has joined
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 544 2014-04-25 11:13:44 <darsie> the thread suggests installing packages from sid. I've done this kind of thing before and it broke my debian :(.
 545 2014-04-25 11:14:23 <darsie> I'll try to compile, but IIRC that failed with 0.9.
 546 2014-04-25 11:15:22 <sipa> darsie: compile it yourself, for now
 547 2014-04-25 11:15:44 <sipa> 0.9.1 has static binaries for bitcoind, but for -qt that's not possible
 548 2014-04-25 11:17:05 papa2 has joined
 549 2014-04-25 11:17:27 <darsie> build-unix.md says  ./autogen.sh, but there is no ./autogen.sh.
 550 2014-04-25 11:17:28 giustoXricordarl has joined
 551 2014-04-25 11:17:38 <sipa> yes there is...
 552 2014-04-25 11:17:49 banghouse has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
 553 2014-04-25 11:18:07 <darsie> must be hidden.
 554 2014-04-25 11:18:07 <sipa> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/master/autogen.sh
 555 2014-04-25 11:18:34 <sipa> no
 556 2014-04-25 11:18:36 non2_ has joined
 557 2014-04-25 11:18:42 <sipa> where are you looking?
 558 2014-04-25 11:18:44 non2_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 559 2014-04-25 11:18:49 <darsie> Can't see it in here: https://bitcoin.org/bin/0.9.1/bitcoin-0.9.1-linux.tar.gz
 560 2014-04-25 11:19:04 <sipa> that's the binary package
 561 2014-04-25 11:19:08 <sipa> fetch the source from git
 562 2014-04-25 11:19:11 <darsie> It has source, too.
 563 2014-04-25 11:19:15 venzen has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
 564 2014-04-25 11:19:18 <darsie> ok
 565 2014-04-25 11:19:43 <sipa> git clone github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/git; git checkout v0.9.1
 566 2014-04-25 11:19:51 <sipa> .git, not /git
 567 2014-04-25 11:22:19 <darsie> there it is :)
 568 2014-04-25 11:22:19 <darsie> thx
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 570 2014-04-25 11:22:52 <darsie> you also forgot http://
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 574 2014-04-25 11:23:31 <sipa> ok :)
 575 2014-04-25 11:23:43 <darsie> Hmm, should I use https, so noone can tamper during download? :)
 576 2014-04-25 11:24:38 <sipa> if you verify the git commit id you're safe
 577 2014-04-25 11:25:15 <darsie> I did https
 578 2014-04-25 11:26:32 ThomasV has joined
 579 2014-04-25 11:26:43 <darsie> there we are again ... configure: error: Found Berkeley DB other than 4.8, required for portable wallets (--with-incompatible-bdb to ignore)
 580 2014-04-25 11:26:55 <darsie> ahh, the switch ...
 581 2014-04-25 11:27:13 <darsie> --with-incompatible-bdb
 582 2014-04-25 11:27:21 <sipa> it's perfectly fine to use --with-incompatible-bdb, it just means you won't be able to use your wallet.dat file with release binaries
 583 2014-04-25 11:27:56 <darsie> remember that ... configure: error: Could not link against boost_chrono-mt !
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 591 2014-04-25 11:34:59 <darsie> fixed: aptitude install libboost1.49-all-dev
 592 2014-04-25 11:37:13 papa2 has joined
 593 2014-04-25 11:37:18 <darsie> Hmm, will I be able to use my old wallet?
 594 2014-04-25 11:37:34 <sipa> yes
 595 2014-04-25 11:37:53 <darsie> k
 596 2014-04-25 11:37:54 <sipa> you just won't be able to use your wallet.dat file with release binaries anymore (which use bdb 4.8)
 597 2014-04-25 11:38:08 olalonde has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 598 2014-04-25 11:38:10 <sipa> but you can manually downconvert them if that would be necessary
 599 2014-04-25 11:38:15 btcuser has joined
 600 2014-04-25 11:38:18 <sipa> using db4.8_load
 601 2014-04-25 11:38:42 <darsie> Or send my btc to the new  clients wallet?
 602 2014-04-25 11:38:59 <sipa> the client doesn't have a wallet
 603 2014-04-25 11:39:04 <sipa> there's just a wallet.dat file which is yours
 604 2014-04-25 11:39:16 <sipa> sure, you can create a new wallet, but there's no need for that
 605 2014-04-25 11:39:54 <darsie> Yes. I mean, when I install a new client, it'll create a new wallet and then I can send my btc from the old client to the new wallet.
 606 2014-04-25 11:39:54 <btcuser> Excuse me, how does the bitcoin-qt calculate the txfee in a transaction?
 607 2014-04-25 11:40:34 grau_ has joined
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 609 2014-04-25 11:41:05 <darsie> Read the source, Luke ;).
 610 2014-04-25 11:41:32 <kaptah> I'm pretty sure Luke does read the source ;)
 611 2014-04-25 11:42:37 <btcuser> who is Luke?
 612 2014-04-25 11:42:53 <darsie> It's a pun on "Use the force, Luke." :)
 613 2014-04-25 11:43:20 <darsie> But Luke-Jr is a major bitcoin dev, IMHO.
 614 2014-04-25 11:45:23 <btcuser> a developer?
 615 2014-04-25 11:45:28 <darsie> yes
 616 2014-04-25 11:45:46 <darsie> Luke is Luke Skywalker from Star Wars.
 617 2014-04-25 11:46:01 <btcuser> where is Luke?
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 623 2014-04-25 11:51:16 <btcuser> Is there a simple way to calculate the txfee through a programming language, such as php?
 624 2014-04-25 11:51:52 Starduster has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 625 2014-04-25 11:52:14 <sipa> btcuser: if you construct the transaction yourself, sure; it's size_in_kilobyte * fee_per_kilobyte
 626 2014-04-25 11:52:29 <sipa> the problem is that if you let bitcoind do it, you don't know the size in kilobyte in advance
 627 2014-04-25 11:52:32 papa2 has joined
 628 2014-04-25 11:54:55 <btcuser> If I use bitcoin RPC "sendtoaddress" or "sendfrom", will the bitcoind calculate the txfee automatically?
 629 2014-04-25 11:55:08 Starduster has joined
 630 2014-04-25 11:55:37 <darsie> Hmm ... didn't seem to build bitcoin-qt. "This will build bitcoin-qt as well if the dependencies are met." Does that mean I lack some qt stuff?
 631 2014-04-25 11:56:53 <btcuser> No bitcoin-qt
 632 2014-04-25 11:58:07 CryxtOp has joined
 633 2014-04-25 11:58:42 <btcuser> I hope to do a transaction platform. When a user make a sending request, it will call the sendtoaddress api auto.
 634 2014-04-25 11:59:38 papa2 has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
 635 2014-04-25 11:59:59 <darsie> I have libqt4-dev installed. What am I missing?
 636 2014-04-25 12:00:20 <sipa> darsie: did it detect it?
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 638 2014-04-25 12:01:34 <wumpus> darsie: doc/build-unix.md should mention exactly which deps you need to install
 639 2014-04-25 12:01:55 <darsie> ahh ... configure: WARNING: libprotobuf not found; bitcoin-qt frontend will not be built
 640 2014-04-25 12:01:55 <btcuser> sipa, what does the size include ?
 641 2014-04-25 12:02:09 <sipa> btcuser: the whole transaction
 642 2014-04-25 12:02:39 <sipa> (sorry, i know that's a useless answer, but i can't explain the whole protocol here)
 643 2014-04-25 12:03:01 <btcuser> darsie, you should install protobuf-2.3.0
 644 2014-04-25 12:03:11 <btcuser> the version is 2.3
 645 2014-04-25 12:03:29 <darsie> k
 646 2014-04-25 12:04:10 <darsie> wumpus: The dependencies listed, are they the -qt dependencies, or also for bitcoind?
 647 2014-04-25 12:05:20 <btcuser> sipa, how do I get the hole transaction data before I send bitcoins?
 648 2014-04-25 12:05:49 <darsie> btcuser: aptitude install libprotobuf-dev installed libprotobuf-dev i386 2.4.1-3
 649 2014-04-25 12:06:43 <sipa> btcuser: if you build the transaction yourself, you have the transaction before you send it
 650 2014-04-25 12:06:55 <darsie> should I run autogen.sh after installing libprotobuf? make clean?
 651 2014-04-25 12:07:04 <darsie> or just ./configure?
 652 2014-04-25 12:07:04 <sipa> darsie: just configure again
 653 2014-04-25 12:07:06 <darsie> k
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 655 2014-04-25 12:07:10 <sipa> btcuser: if you use any integrated wallet, it will do all at once, making it impossible to know in advance
 656 2014-04-25 12:07:29 <runeks> sending funds to an OP_RETURN output would destroy said funds, right?
 657 2014-04-25 12:07:36 <sipa> yes
 658 2014-04-25 12:07:53 <wumpus> darsie: it lists them separately AFAIK
 659 2014-04-25 12:07:57 <runeks> sipa: Is this a good way of doing proof-of-burn, without bloating the UTXO set?
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 662 2014-04-25 12:12:27 <btcuser> Does the parameter "amount" in "sendtoaddress" including txfee ?
 663 2014-04-25 12:12:40 <sipa> no
 664 2014-04-25 12:13:50 <btcuser> Is there any sending bitcoin's api including txfee?
 665 2014-04-25 12:14:17 <sipa> createrawtransaction allows you to construct the entire transaction as you want
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 667 2014-04-25 12:14:49 <darsie> 'checking for PROTOBUF... yes' 'checking for protoc... no' 'configure: WARNING: PROTOC not found; bitcoin-qt frontend will not be built'
 668 2014-04-25 12:15:13 stonecoldpat has joined
 669 2014-04-25 12:15:18 <darsie> install libprotoc-dev?
 670 2014-04-25 12:15:42 Starduster has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 671 2014-04-25 12:16:14 Starduster has joined
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 673 2014-04-25 12:16:54 <darsie> nope, that didn't fix it.
 674 2014-04-25 12:17:28 aschildbach has joined
 675 2014-04-25 12:17:30 <btcuser> If you have install the libprotoc, I think the version is not reach the target.
 676 2014-04-25 12:17:33 <sipa> from https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/master/doc/build-unix.md:
 677 2014-04-25 12:17:40 <sipa> To build with Qt 4 you need the following:
 678 2014-04-25 12:17:41 <sipa> sudo apt-get install libqt4-dev libprotobuf-dev protobuf-compiler
 679 2014-04-25 12:18:22 <wumpus> darsie: why don't you just follow the steps in the build-unixmd
 680 2014-04-25 12:18:38 maraoz has joined
 681 2014-04-25 12:18:58 <wumpus> is it really necessary that we quote you from it?
 682 2014-04-25 12:19:09 ryanxcharles has joined
 683 2014-04-25 12:19:09 <darsie> sorry, reading it now more completely.
 684 2014-04-25 12:20:14 <darsie> I suggest you supply a debian stable compatible binary ;).
 685 2014-04-25 12:20:41 <wumpus> the nightly builds are debian stable compatible now, and the 0.9.1 came with .static executables that also work on debian stable
 686 2014-04-25 12:20:48 <wumpus> so I'm not sure what more you're suggesting
 687 2014-04-25 12:21:24 <darsie> one that doesn't say: bitcoin-qt: /lib/i386-linux-gnu/i686/cmov/libc.so.6: version `GLIBC_2.15' not found (required by bitcoin-qt)
 688 2014-04-25 12:22:14 <wumpus> and if this encourages people to try to build it themselves it's actually great
 689 2014-04-25 12:22:18 <runeks> sipa: No comment on whether sending funds to an OP_RETURN output is preferable to sending them to an unredeemable hash160?
 690 2014-04-25 12:22:35 Guest5348 has joined
 691 2014-04-25 12:22:49 <wumpus> runeks: sending to OP_RETURN is better, those can be pruned in the utxo set
 692 2014-04-25 12:23:04 mortale has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
 693 2014-04-25 12:23:12 <runeks> wumpus: Cool! That's what I though. Thanks.
 694 2014-04-25 12:23:25 Namworld has joined
 695 2014-04-25 12:25:20 <darsie> wumpus: Making everything yourself is kinda great, but most people have other priorities ...
 696 2014-04-25 12:25:51 <wumpus> darsie: good for them, but for the project it's better if people build themselves, it encourages development
 697 2014-04-25 12:25:57 wallet42 has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
 698 2014-04-25 12:27:12 koolhaas has joined
 699 2014-04-25 12:28:02 <wumpus> darsie: I'm not saying that pre-build executables are bad, as I already said above the nightly builds work on debian stable (7.x), also bitcoin-qt
 700 2014-04-25 12:29:08 MaxSan has joined
 701 2014-04-25 12:30:21 <darsie> wumpus: Is it risky to use them? I mean, more than the releases?
 702 2014-04-25 12:30:34 <sipa> yes
 703 2014-04-25 12:30:40 <sipa> they are way less tested
 704 2014-04-25 12:30:42 <wumpus> darsie: yes
 705 2014-04-25 12:30:45 <darsie> k
 706 2014-04-25 12:30:53 <wumpus> darsie: but if you're building master already, it's exactly the same
 707 2014-04-25 12:31:13 <wumpus> darsie: if you're actually building a release tag from git, it's not
 708 2014-04-25 12:31:46 <darsie> Hmm, I did git checkout v0.9.1
 709 2014-04-25 12:32:11 <wumpus> just continue with that, then
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 726 2014-04-25 13:00:45 <btcuser> Can anyone tell me is there any solution to set the txfee through sending bitcoins in RPC?
 727 2014-04-25 13:01:35 <btcuser> In command line I use sendtoaddress, it tell me that "This transaction requires a transaction fee of at least 0.0001 because of its amount".
 728 2014-04-25 13:02:09 user99 has left ("Leaving")
 729 2014-04-25 13:02:17 <sipa> you can set the txfee to what you like, but not below what your own bitcoind would drop because of DoS rules
 730 2014-04-25 13:03:16 dims has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 731 2014-04-25 13:03:59 <darsie> Yay, bitcoin-qt 0.9.1-beta is running :)
 732 2014-04-25 13:04:00 <darsie> thx
 733 2014-04-25 13:04:15 modyn has joined
 734 2014-04-25 13:05:19 <btcuser> when I use "settxfee 0.0001", and then "sendtoaddress xxx 0.001", it return that "Insufficient funds".
 735 2014-04-25 13:05:43 <btcuser> But my wallet have enough bitcoins.
 736 2014-04-25 13:05:49 gst_ has joined
 737 2014-04-25 13:06:00 dims has joined
 738 2014-04-25 13:06:39 <sipa> how much does it have?
 739 2014-04-25 13:06:46 gst has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
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 742 2014-04-25 13:07:22 <sipa> the value passed to settxfee is per kilobyte
 743 2014-04-25 13:07:36 <btcuser> I have 0.0998 in total
 744 2014-04-25 13:07:55 Zarutian has quit (Quit: Zarutian)
 745 2014-04-25 13:07:55 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Is it in many very tiny outputs, by any chance?
 746 2014-04-25 13:07:58 <modyn> sipa: what should i set settxfee to? if i want to use 0.0001 fee for my transaction?
 747 2014-04-25 13:08:09 soulblade738_ has joined
 748 2014-04-25 13:08:17 <modyn> transactions
 749 2014-04-25 13:08:20 <sipa> modyn: that depends on the size of the transaction
 750 2014-04-25 13:08:29 <sipa> the fee per transaction is not relevant to the network
 751 2014-04-25 13:08:33 <sipa> it's the fee per kilobyte
 752 2014-04-25 13:08:50 <modyn> lol
 753 2014-04-25 13:08:58 <modyn> i want 0.0001 no matter what :)
 754 2014-04-25 13:09:00 <modyn> like always
 755 2014-04-25 13:09:06 <modyn> simple transaction
 756 2014-04-25 13:09:08 <sipa> that's not possible, and doesn't make sense
 757 2014-04-25 13:09:22 <modyn> no it doesnt to me who wanna pay easy
 758 2014-04-25 13:09:30 <modyn> so please tell me what to put in there
 759 2014-04-25 13:09:45 <sipa> you can't; the setting is per kilobyte, as that is what matters
 760 2014-04-25 13:09:58 <sipa> unless you contruct the transaction manually
 761 2014-04-25 13:10:16 <modyn> ok so.. if i put settxfee 0.0001
 762 2014-04-25 13:10:27 <modyn> and then send a normal transaction at 257 byte
 763 2014-04-25 13:10:34 soulblade738 has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
 764 2014-04-25 13:10:36 <modyn> how much fee it gonna take from me?
 765 2014-04-25 13:10:36 <sipa> then it will use 0.0001 fee
 766 2014-04-25 13:10:40 <modyn> oki
 767 2014-04-25 13:10:48 <modyn> under 1 000 byte right?
 768 2014-04-25 13:10:58 <darsie> bitcoin-qt just seriously hogs my computer :/.
 769 2014-04-25 13:10:59 <modyn> it gonna use 0.0001
 770 2014-04-25 13:11:02 <btcuser> how to calculate the transaction size?
 771 2014-04-25 13:11:09 <sipa> btcuser: you can't
 772 2014-04-25 13:11:22 <sipa> btcuser: it depends on the size of the coins in your wallet
 773 2014-04-25 13:11:40 <modyn> lol my bitcoins are 200 mb
 774 2014-04-25 13:11:40 <modyn> :)
 775 2014-04-25 13:11:44 <sipa> so unless you build the transaction yourself, you can't know the size in advance
 776 2014-04-25 13:11:47 <modyn> 0.1 bitcoins are 200 mb
 777 2014-04-25 13:11:49 <modyn> imagine ?
 778 2014-04-25 13:11:50 <modyn> :)
 779 2014-04-25 13:11:54 <sipa> ?
 780 2014-04-25 13:12:09 <modyn> is there any bitcoins that are 1 mb?
 781 2014-04-25 13:12:17 <modyn> for 1 tranaction? sipa
 782 2014-04-25 13:12:18 <modyn> ?
 783 2014-04-25 13:12:20 <sipa> you mean transactions?
 784 2014-04-25 13:12:24 <btcuser> how to build the transanction myself?
 785 2014-04-25 13:12:25 <modyn> no 1 transaction
 786 2014-04-25 13:12:46 <sipa> bin theory, transactions can be up to 999919 bytes
 787 2014-04-25 13:13:06 <sipa> but i don't think anyone will relay above 50 or 100 kb or so
 788 2014-04-25 13:13:45 <sipa> btcuser: using the raw transaction api, for example
 789 2014-04-25 13:14:06 banghouse has joined
 790 2014-04-25 13:14:11 <darsie> bitcoin-qt 0.9.1-beta seems to be stuck processing block 269781
 791 2014-04-25 13:14:19 <sipa> btcuser: that's not intended for end users; you'll need to learn the protocol details and experiment with it if you don't want to shoot yourself in the foot
 792 2014-04-25 13:14:21 koolhaas has joined
 793 2014-04-25 13:14:58 <sipa> darsie: just wait, it will normally recover when a new block is announced
 794 2014-04-25 13:15:09 <darsie> ok
 795 2014-04-25 13:17:40 <btcuser> Is it impossible to set suitable txfee through bitcoin RPC?
 796 2014-04-25 13:17:52 <sipa> define suitable
 797 2014-04-25 13:18:17 arowser has left ()
 798 2014-04-25 13:18:19 <sipa> there is a settxfee command, which sets the transaction fee per kilobyte for created transactions
 799 2014-04-25 13:18:24 banghouse has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 800 2014-04-25 13:19:06 <btcuser> How do I know whether the txfee is suitable?
 801 2014-04-25 13:19:15 <darsie> suitable: get the tx into the next (few) block(s) with high probability.
 802 2014-04-25 13:20:50 <btcuser> I don't understand~
 803 2014-04-25 13:20:55 <sipa> well what do you want to accomplish?
 804 2014-04-25 13:22:05 <btcuser> I hope to call "sendtoaddress" in my program, how to set a suitable txfee ?
 805 2014-04-25 13:22:19 <sipa> you haven't answered my question
 806 2014-04-25 13:22:43 <btcuser> what do I want to accomplish?
 807 2014-04-25 13:22:53 <sipa> yes?
 808 2014-04-25 13:23:02 <sipa> you use the word 'suitable' but you don't say for what
 809 2014-04-25 13:23:25 <btcuser> for sending bitcoins
 810 2014-04-25 13:23:41 ahmed_lunch is now known as ahmed_
 811 2014-04-25 13:24:04 <sipa> bitcoind will generally not create transactions that have a too low fee to be accepted by the network, though the default may cause them to take a while before being picked up by miners
 812 2014-04-25 13:24:16 <sipa> even if you set the fee to 0
 813 2014-04-25 13:26:23 <btcuser> I do not set the fee to 0, but 0.0001
 814 2014-04-25 13:27:27 <sipa> ok
 815 2014-04-25 13:28:49 <btcuser> look at this http://pastebin.ca/2703169
 816 2014-04-25 13:29:13 <btcuser> a part of program I wrote.
 817 2014-04-25 13:29:31 <sipa> ok
 818 2014-04-25 13:30:20 <btcuser> it return this: Insufficient funds
 819 2014-04-25 13:30:52 <sipa> do you have unconfirmed incoming transactions?
 820 2014-04-25 13:31:27 <btcuser> no
 821 2014-04-25 13:31:28 Milanito_ has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
 822 2014-04-25 13:31:42 <btcuser> all transaction has confirmed.
 823 2014-04-25 13:32:03 <btcuser> and my wallet has 0.0988btc
 824 2014-04-25 13:32:36 <sipa> what does: getbalance '*' 1
 825 2014-04-25 13:32:39 <sipa> return?
 826 2014-04-25 13:32:47 alecalve has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
 827 2014-04-25 13:33:09 <btcuser> 0.09880000
 828 2014-04-25 13:33:26 <sipa> how large are your inputs?
 829 2014-04-25 13:33:50 <btcuser> where to see inputs?
 830 2014-04-25 13:34:02 <sipa> how large are the typical amounts you received?
 831 2014-04-25 13:34:08 <sipa> in listtransactions
 832 2014-04-25 13:34:38 <btcuser> 0.09990000
 833 2014-04-25 13:35:03 sipa has left ()
 834 2014-04-25 13:35:48 <btcuser> ...
 835 2014-04-25 13:36:46 modyn has quit ()
 836 2014-04-25 13:37:54 <btcuser> sipa?
 837 2014-04-25 13:38:43 koolhaas has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 838 2014-04-25 13:39:18 koolhaas has joined
 839 2014-04-25 13:39:19 pierreatwork has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 840 2014-04-25 13:39:33 pierreatwork has joined
 841 2014-04-25 13:39:46 <darsie> blockchain.info shows 2 new block, and my bitcoin-qt 0.9.1 is still on block 269781.
 842 2014-04-25 13:39:52 LjL-Laplet has joined
 843 2014-04-25 13:39:57 <darsie> resync?
 844 2014-04-25 13:40:04 <darsie> for 3 days?
 845 2014-04-25 13:41:02 koolhaas has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 846 2014-04-25 13:41:07 ThomasV has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
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 848 2014-04-25 13:41:48 <btcuser> my block is 297633
 849 2014-04-25 13:42:46 <btcuser> darsie, do you know something about txfee?
 850 2014-04-25 13:43:17 dims has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 851 2014-04-25 13:44:49 <darsie> a little
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 854 2014-04-25 13:45:43 dims has joined
 855 2014-04-25 13:45:45 <btcuser> do you know how to calculate the txfee?
 856 2014-04-25 13:47:51 <btcuser> darsie, look at this:http://pastebin.ca/2703181
 857 2014-04-25 13:48:14 <darsie> I don't.
 858 2014-04-25 13:50:24 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|btcuser: what does getbalance retur?n
 859 2014-04-25 13:51:08 Namworld has quit ()
 860 2014-04-25 13:51:12 <btcuser> your bitcoins amount.
 861 2014-04-25 13:54:08 Joric has joined
 862 2014-04-25 13:54:37 <Luke-Jr> btcuser: not possible, and off-topic here
 863 2014-04-25 13:55:17 dims has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 864 2014-04-25 13:55:49 <btcuser> ok, sorry.
 865 2014-04-25 13:57:16 <darsie> My freshly compiled bitcoin-qt 0.9.1 is stuck syncing at block 296781.
 866 2014-04-25 13:57:43 btcuser has quit (Quit: Page closed)
 867 2014-04-25 13:57:53 dims has joined
 868 2014-04-25 13:58:27 <Luke-Jr> darsie: pastebin debug.log
 869 2014-04-25 13:58:51 <darsie> ok. I'm restarting it currently.
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 874 2014-04-25 14:03:25 <darsie> Luke-Jr: http://paste.debian.net/95676/
 875 2014-04-25 14:04:02 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|;;blocks
 876 2014-04-25 14:04:02 <gribble> 297636
 877 2014-04-25 14:04:12 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|darsie: you're synced
 878 2014-04-25 14:04:32 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Oh, wait a sec
 879 2014-04-25 14:04:33 <Luke-Jr> darsie: truncated log is useless ; plus what michagogo|cloud said
 880 2014-04-25 14:04:58 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|What's 2014-04-25 13:57:19 nBestHeight = 296781?
 881 2014-04-25 14:05:08 <darsie> ok, I'll  paste the complete file ...
 882 2014-04-25 14:06:09 JackH has joined
 883 2014-04-25 14:06:11 <Luke-Jr> darsie: the important part is the moment it received block 296782
 884 2014-04-25 14:06:13 <darsie> Length of code is not allowed to exceed 150kB
 885 2014-04-25 14:06:22 <Luke-Jr> darsie: use dropbox or osmething
 886 2014-04-25 14:06:23 jgarzik has quit (Quit: restart)
 887 2014-04-25 14:09:00 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|or use tail
 888 2014-04-25 14:09:44 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|tail -c150000 debug.log | pastebinit
 889 2014-04-25 14:09:47 Checkup has quit (Quit: -a- Android IRC 2.1.16)
 890 2014-04-25 14:09:55 davout has quit (Quit: kthxbye)
 891 2014-04-25 14:10:03 <darsie> michagogo|cloud: darsie: truncated log is useless
 892 2014-04-25 14:10:17 <darsie> Hope this works: https://www.dropbox.com/s/kkc82is2nc95wrz/debug.log
 893 2014-04-25 14:10:19 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|darsie: not completely useless
 894 2014-04-25 14:10:19 djcoin_ has quit (Quit: djcoin_)
 895 2014-04-25 14:10:26 Checkup has joined
 896 2014-04-25 14:10:40 <darsie> Haven't used dropbox before.
 897 2014-04-25 14:11:04 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Hm, that doesn't allow in-browser viewing, only downloading :-/
 898 2014-04-25 14:12:58 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|um
 899 2014-04-25 14:13:01 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|2014-04-25 14:04:47 CheckForkWarningConditions: Warning: Large valid fork found
 900 2014-04-25 14:13:01 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|  forking the chain at height 296781 (0000000000000000652daf97ebe7a7880293e20e949dd972be3af1eac6238240)
 901 2014-04-25 14:13:01 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|  lasting to height 297637 (00000000000000002e6b49719cabf431f9c5abe93bcb61631942ce3b32b18ab0).
 902 2014-04-25 14:13:01 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Chain state database corruption likely
 903 2014-04-25 14:13:13 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|;;blocks
 904 2014-04-25 14:13:13 <gribble> 297637
 905 2014-04-25 14:13:32 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|That line seems like it might have something to do with it
 906 2014-04-25 14:14:20 <darsie> Here you can view it in browser: http://www.bksys.at/bernhard/temp/debug.log.txt
 907 2014-04-25 14:14:35 <darsie> so, I do bitcoin-qt -rescan?
 908 2014-04-25 14:14:42 [Mr`X] has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 909 2014-04-25 14:14:49 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|-reindex, I think
 910 2014-04-25 14:15:04 <darsie> another 3 days syncing ...
 911 2014-04-25 14:15:57 <darsie> Guess I should have stopped it before I shutdown my computer yesterday.
 912 2014-04-25 14:16:03 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|2014-04-22 00:39:33 received block 00000000000000008527e0a80533ae25decbf7c132c166fb8db71856a39e719e
 913 2014-04-25 14:16:03 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|2014-04-22 00:39:33 InvalidChainFound: invalid block=00000000000000008527e0a80533ae25decbf7c132c166fb8db71856a39e719e  height=297067  log2_work=78.136412  date=2014-04-22 00:39:22
 914 2014-04-25 14:17:19 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|2014-04-22 00:47:47 received block 000000000000000061fdc9bc6d861daa0f6713b269a70
 915 2014-04-25 14:17:19 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|94f7bab8eee65c2a5b4
 916 2014-04-25 14:17:19 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|2014-04-22 00:47:47 InvalidChainFound: invalid block=000000000000000061fdc9bc6d861daa0f6713b269a7094f7bab8eee65c2a5b4  height=297068  log2_work=78.136542  date=2014-04-22 00:49:36
 917 2014-04-25 14:17:24 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|etc
 918 2014-04-25 14:17:33 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|And I just checked, those are the valid blocks at those heights
 919 2014-04-25 14:17:51 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|darsie: Ah, yep, unclean shutdowns can cause database corruption
 920 2014-04-25 14:18:18 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|(I managed to view it with $ curl 'https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/kkc82is2nc95wrz/debug.log?dl=1&token_hash=AAFVLLsazMngL7xeXtOxXjUXihcMJs30t3pXioJbCaMgjg' | less )
 921 2014-04-25 14:18:25 <darsie> Please make unclean shutdowns more stable.
 922 2014-04-25 14:18:56 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|darsie: I don't actually know if this is the case, but you may need to take that up with the leveldb devs
 923 2014-04-25 14:19:20 <darsie> ic
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1064 2014-04-25 17:35:36 <danneu> when connected to a pool over stratum and it sends "set_difficulty: 2", isn't worker difficulty then = 0x00000000ffff0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 / 2 ?
1065 2014-04-25 17:35:47 <danneu> er, worker target*
1066 2014-04-25 17:36:41 <Luke-Jr> danneu: yes
1067 2014-04-25 17:36:52 <Luke-Jr> maybe not exactly
1068 2014-04-25 17:37:24 <Luke-Jr> yeah, should be exact actually
1069 2014-04-25 17:37:52 <Luke-Jr> otoh, there are many non-conformance pools with this
1070 2014-04-25 17:38:01 <Luke-Jr> BTCGuild uses a non-truncated pdiff 1
1071 2014-04-25 17:38:24 <Luke-Jr> so it's really 0x00000000ffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff
1072 2014-04-25 17:38:44 <Luke-Jr> and various pools use Ldiff instead
1073 2014-04-25 17:38:50 <danneu> Luke-Jr: Ah, I'm actually connecting to BTCGuild as I'm testing my [toy, for-fun] miner. That was my next question -- I gotcha
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1075 2014-04-25 17:39:59 <Luke-Jr> I'm tempted to make BFGMiner use pdiff as well, just to cover the least-common-denominator..
1076 2014-04-25 17:40:01 <danneu> Also, this is probably dumb, but is the  `set_difficulty` value in stratum in decimal or hex?
1077 2014-04-25 17:40:12 <Luke-Jr> stratum is JSON, so decimal..
1078 2014-04-25 17:40:20 <Luke-Jr> and not necessarily an integer
1079 2014-04-25 17:40:53 <danneu> why does the use of json preclude a hex string?
1080 2014-04-25 17:41:16 <Luke-Jr> it doesn't preclude strings at all, but Numbers are always decimal
1081 2014-04-25 17:41:41 <danneu> oh, it's a number over the wire. i didn't even notice. thanks
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1083 2014-04-25 17:41:53 <Luke-Jr> lol
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1086 2014-04-25 17:47:34 <danneu> Luke-Jr: how can the worker-target calculation vary between pools using the stratum protocol?
1087 2014-04-25 17:47:48 <Luke-Jr> danneu: ?
1088 2014-04-25 17:48:21 <danneu> how would miners swap out stratum endpoints to different pools without knowing whether they need to {pdiff,bdiff,ldiff}/<set_difficulty>?
1089 2014-04-25 17:48:33 <Luke-Jr> danneu: guesswork
1090 2014-04-25 17:48:40 <danneu> wow, no shit
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1108 2014-04-25 18:02:36 <danneu> stratum's "spec" page explains that target is calculated against bdiff (0x00000000ffff00000...). why would a pool not comply?
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1113 2014-04-25 18:08:46 <Luke-Jr> danneu: in BTCGuild's case, because it's easier to check against pdiff (not sure why they set_difficulty integer though)
1114 2014-04-25 18:09:10 <Luke-Jr> danneu: in scamcoin pools' case, because the people designing it are not thinking straight
1115 2014-04-25 18:09:56 <Luke-Jr> danneu: also, BTCGuild had their "stratum" implementation *before* stratum was published, and only adjusted it slightly to use stratum's protocol instead of their own
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1117 2014-04-25 18:10:21 <Luke-Jr> really, mining protocols *should* just stick to a target
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1120 2014-04-25 18:11:43 <danneu> seems simpler had it been {set_target: <hex string>} instead
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1122 2014-04-25 18:12:35 <gmaxwell> What fun would it be if there weren't protocols that required floating point in their normative behavior?
1123 2014-04-25 18:14:06 <Luke-Jr> danneu: exactly. that's why I used suggest_target instead of suggest_diff
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1157 2014-04-25 19:05:35 <mpescador> hello everybody, i've got a question about coinbase transactions
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1160 2014-04-25 19:07:56 <mpescador> does it always have to be the first input of the first transaction in a block, or can it be any input with a previous output hash of 0 (as long as there's only 1 of them)?
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1163 2014-04-25 19:08:13 <hearn> it has to be the first
1164 2014-04-25 19:08:15 <danneu> first
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1166 2014-04-25 19:09:13 <mpescador> then does the previous output hash of the first input always need to be 0 or is that just a convention?
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1168 2014-04-25 19:10:29 <danneu> afaik it's arbitrary like its ntime
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1170 2014-04-25 19:11:38 <mpescador> ok thanks a lot
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1181 2014-04-25 19:15:39 <sipa> mpescador: the first transaction of a block must have exactly one txin, and ot must be 000...000:ffff
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1183 2014-04-25 19:17:02 <mpescador> and if it's not 000...000:ffff? will the block be rejected?
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1185 2014-04-25 19:17:17 <sipa> yes
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1187 2014-04-25 19:17:22 <mpescador> ok thanks
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1239 2014-04-25 20:08:46 <tyrick> I can't find my bootstrap.dat file in ./bitcoin
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1241 2014-04-25 20:09:05 <tyrick> Isn't it generated the first time you load the program?
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1243 2014-04-25 20:10:03 <sipa> no
1244 2014-04-25 20:10:10 <sipa> you download it if you want to use it
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1272 2014-04-25 20:49:50 <olalonde> tyrick: you can generate a bootstrap.dat like this: cat *.blk > bootstrap.dat  in the blocks directory
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1276 2014-04-25 20:53:28 <gmaxwell> olalonde: that will end up with orphans in it, so not quite the same.
1277 2014-04-25 20:53:47 <gmaxwell> there is a script in contrib that extracts an orphanless bootstrap.
1278 2014-04-25 20:54:05 <wumpus> also it may end up with the block files in the wrong order
1279 2014-04-25 20:54:33 <olalonde> ok
1280 2014-04-25 20:54:53 <wumpus> but yes the basic idea is just to concatenate them
1281 2014-04-25 20:54:55 <olalonde> tyrick: what they said
1282 2014-04-25 20:55:15 <olalonde> best way to get an answer in this chan is to say something wrong :)
1283 2014-04-25 20:55:56 <sipa> wumpus: the order should be right
1284 2014-04-25 20:56:18 <olalonde> all I know is that it worked for me last time I tried
1285 2014-04-25 20:56:23 <gmaxwell> (we don't save orphans on disk)
1286 2014-04-25 20:56:36 <gmaxwell> olalonde: it does work but it won't agree with one someone else made, and it won't be as small as it could be)
1287 2014-04-25 20:56:43 <wumpus> sipa: how's that? shell globs don't guarantee any specific order AFAIK
1288 2014-04-25 20:57:02 <gmaxwell> oh. :)
1289 2014-04-25 20:59:57 <wumpus> hm, seemingly bash does sort alphabetically, that's strange, I've seen problems with gitian and filesystems that have different orderings
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1292 2014-04-25 21:03:38 <gmaxwell> So— apparently someone is TCP hijacking multiple of the largest Bitcoin pools in order to divert their hashpower for the attacker's profit.  I'd warned some pools about this a few months ago after some ISP industry friends contacted me to ask about some address space hijacking they'd seen of an altcoin pool (they were wondering why someone would be motivated to hijack its address space).
1293 2014-04-25 21:04:10 <gmaxwell> At the moment it appears that the attacker is just doing it for the coins income and isn't attempting to reorg the chain. (the work they're issuing agrees with my current best block)
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1295 2014-04-25 21:06:26 <gmaxwell> I note that P2Pool continues to be structurally immune to this attack (at least while motivated by stealing rewards or reorging the chain).
1296 2014-04-25 21:07:13 <wumpus> interesting
1297 2014-04-25 21:08:05 <gmaxwell> Prior attacks were based on address space hijacking, actual modality is unknown in this instance, may be compromised routers at a datacenter where multiple pool frontends are.
1298 2014-04-25 21:08:05 <wumpus> what does TCP hijacking do?
1299 2014-04-25 21:08:25 <wumpus> ah, they have to exploit routers
1300 2014-04-25 21:08:30 <gmaxwell> wumpus: what they're doing here is intercepting the connections (somehow) and inserting a stratum redirect to a new address.
1301 2014-04-25 21:08:48 <gmaxwell> so the miners then move over to mine at the new address.
1302 2014-04-25 21:10:02 <wumpus> not having the miner side authenticate themselves is sort-of asking for this
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1304 2014-04-25 21:11:43 <helo> would anything bad happen if most pool miners just switched to p2pool?
1305 2014-04-25 21:12:12 <belcher> miners would have to make an effort
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1307 2014-04-25 21:13:10 <wumpus> this attack was hypothesized a long time ago, but I suppose it wasn't done before (that we know of) because it's hard to execute
1308 2014-04-25 21:13:13 <helo> there were some scalability concerns with p2pool at some point, not sure if they were addressed
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1310 2014-04-25 21:14:47 <wumpus> it's interesting how unlikely attacks suddenly become feasible if there's this much profit to be gained
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1320 2014-04-25 21:21:03 <gmaxwell> helo: I'm not aware of any scalability concerns that aren't just fud. it's all adaptive— it just ups the difficulty if there are more users, so the share rate stays constant.
1321 2014-04-25 21:21:42 <gmaxwell> helo: if all the network used it the variance would be pretty high, but still actually lower than it is now (because now the variance is domainated by blockfinding)
1322 2014-04-25 21:22:19 <danneu> does stratum really mix endianness in its messages?
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1358 2014-04-25 22:10:39 <petertodd> wumpus: unfortunately I'm not surprised to hear that no-one is using even SSL for this :(
1359 2014-04-25 22:13:11 <petertodd> helo: keep in mind that at worst you don't have to have everyone mining on the same p2pool sharechain - you can always split it up into multiple p2pools
1360 2014-04-25 22:14:08 <gmaxwell> petertodd: they have problems keeping their service online due to DOS attacks without a nice TLS target wrapping the protocol.
1361 2014-04-25 22:14:49 <petertodd> helo: that said, p2pool miners earn less than well-run large pools, which is an unfortunate and inherent part of how bitcoin works. not that much less right now, we're talking a % or two at most, but larger blocksizes and merge-mining make that problem worse
1362 2014-04-25 22:15:06 koolhaas has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1363 2014-04-25 22:15:13 <petertodd> gmaxwell: surely cloudflare could fix that...
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1365 2014-04-25 22:16:35 <gmaxwell> cloudflare doesn't work right for non-browser clients, they do things like JS POW. (I suppose you can turn this off...) and yea, thats exactly what the ecosystem security needs, cloudflare controlling all the hashpower. :P
1366 2014-04-25 22:16:50 <petertodd> heh, I knew you'd just love that suggestion
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1368 2014-04-25 22:19:43 <sipa> these mining pools just need scalable enterprise solutions
1369 2014-04-25 22:20:03 <sipa> running on virtualized clusters... webscale!
1370 2014-04-25 22:20:26 <sipa> is web 2.0 still a buzzword these days?
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1372 2014-04-25 22:21:01 <petertodd> sipa: only among the proletariat
1373 2014-04-25 22:24:20 <gmaxwell> petertodd: reality isn't really much better, many of them are hosted on AWS already.
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1375 2014-04-25 22:25:00 <gmaxwell> (you it's a little less obvious as to where they're hosted because they use sacrificail frontends and redirect traffic to avoid some of the DOS attacks)
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1377 2014-04-25 22:27:32 <petertodd> interesting: SatoshiBONES doublespends itself: https://blockchain.info/tx/1830b54982a49850e59e1bcf6356e77faa40c1db315b76969189203b2314be2a https://blockchain.info/tx/c20e1849115b07736ed530762a958c828f2d70d3d847070627533adea66467cd
1378 2014-04-25 22:27:38 <petertodd> must be a bug?
1379 2014-04-25 22:28:48 Jabap has joined
1380 2014-04-25 22:29:03 <sipa> i have learnt to ignore sites with satoshi in their name
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1382 2014-04-25 22:29:44 <rodrigo31> Hey!
1383 2014-04-25 22:30:06 <petertodd> sipa: heh, well there is something to be said there... does look like they're vulnerable to zeroconf tx replacement
1384 2014-04-25 22:30:25 <rodrigo31> After 10 day here i will finaly quit my IRC client! ;)
1385 2014-04-25 22:30:26 <petertodd> sipa: and, I mean the really trivial type enabled by differences in fee rules
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1391 2014-04-25 22:47:38 <midnightmagic> I had high hopes for the satoshi archive thingy but..  so much for that.
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1397 2014-04-25 23:05:23 <petertodd> satoshi archive?
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1408 2014-04-25 23:17:24 <jaekwon> is there some estimate on the total number of full nodes on the network?
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1416 2014-04-25 23:24:08 <gmaxwell> jaekwon: there isn't really any way to measure it, you can measure the reachable ones though and you get a number around 8000.
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1418 2014-04-25 23:25:19 <gmaxwell> so greater than that but almost certantly less than 100k. (if there were much more than 100k the 8000 reachable nodes would be constantly full and people would have problem getting connections).
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1421 2014-04-25 23:26:20 <jaekwon> thank you. i suppose there are more miners than that though, simply mining via pools, not connected as a node.
1422 2014-04-25 23:27:26 <sipa> their number is irrelevant to the network
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1436 2014-04-25 23:41:51 <jaekwon> sipa: yes.
1437 2014-04-25 23:42:54 <jaekwon> i'm just measuring the number of people who go through the trouble of setting up a miner at all.
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1441 2014-04-25 23:45:10 <maaku> sipa gmaxwell: ah, I remember why I thought it more elegant to leave coinbase outputs out of the utxo tree - that way you don't need to remember the coinbase flag
1442 2014-04-25 23:45:37 <sipa> maaku: alternative: don't store the coinbase flag or the height, but only the height at which the output becomes spendable
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1444 2014-04-25 23:46:08 <maaku> sipa: i like that...
1445 2014-04-25 23:46:16 <sipa> (which does screw up confirmation counts for coinbases...)
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1447 2014-04-25 23:49:15 <gmaxwell> they're kind of inaccurate now though.
1448 2014-04-25 23:51:42 <maaku> well maturity vs confirmations are different things
1449 2014-04-25 23:52:32 <maaku> also, storing height+maturity might be semantically confusing when other types of immaturity are added, e.g. quieting periods
1450 2014-04-25 23:53:02 <maaku> modifying the utxo to account for that would be a hard-fork, assuming utxo tree commitment validation rules are added first
1451 2014-04-25 23:53:07 <gmaxwell> but all the network cares about is when its valid.
1452 2014-04-25 23:53:39 <gmaxwell> though I always assumed any quieting would be done via script and not by a txo property.
1453 2014-04-25 23:53:58 Zifre has joined
1454 2014-04-25 23:54:03 <gmaxwell> esp since quieting without another spend pathways is, I think, mostly pointless.
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1456 2014-04-25 23:55:04 <maaku> gmaxwell: yes I'm favoring that approach, but I know BlueMatt for example preferred a transaction-template approach which i think means quieting wouldn't be done in script
1457 2014-04-25 23:55:44 <gmaxwell> it could still be done in script and yet be a template approach.
1458 2014-04-25 23:55:48 <maaku> well i guess it just depends on how you look at it, the information would be there so long as the peg is confined to a single output
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1460 2014-04-25 23:57:30 <maaku> for now, which do you think is cleaner, nMaturityHeight or nHeight + fCoinbase?
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1465 2014-04-25 23:58:57 <gmaxwell> maturity is cleaner but I think you need to do the latter if it's ever to support things like scripts reading the height off.
1466 2014-04-25 23:59:15 <gmaxwell> unless you think those things could sanely tolerate it being 100 greater for coinbases.
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