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  30 2014-04-27 00:32:10 <bawse> Please dont kick me guys... :(  Bitcoin miner for sale, Cointerra 1.6th  1583GH steady on the pools. $4800. killacronin@gmail.com   PM's ok too. Thank you guys.
  31 2014-04-27 00:32:19 adam3us has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
  32 2014-04-27 00:32:52 <bawse>  just got scammed out of $5000
  33 2014-04-27 00:32:56 <Diablo-D3> kick him!
  34 2014-04-27 00:33:17 <bawse> :(
  35 2014-04-27 00:33:38 <Diablo-D3> seriously though, this is the wrong channel for that
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  40 2014-04-27 00:36:40 <skinnkavaj> petertodd about sidechains
  41 2014-04-27 00:36:42 <skinnkavaj> https://soundcloud.com/mindtomatter/ltb-e104-tree-chains-with
  42 2014-04-27 00:36:45 <skinnkavaj> Great talk
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  44 2014-04-27 00:42:09 <bawse> i get it diablo-d3 just desperate   lost 6400 in scams in the last 1.5 weeks
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  56 2014-04-27 01:10:57 <petertodd> skinnkavaj: thanks!
  57 2014-04-27 01:11:43 <petertodd> skinnkavaj: and kudo's to andreas antonopoulos - he really helped ask the right questions and keep me on track in explaining mode
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  65 2014-04-27 01:32:29 <splitting> i'm using authserviceproxy with python and dogecoind, When I call "self.walletProxy.sendtoaddress(self.walletAddress, sendAmount)" the call fails with "socket.error: [Errno 104] Connection reset by peer"
  66 2014-04-27 01:32:34 <splitting> *bitcoind
  67 2014-04-27 01:32:52 <splitting> im able to make other calls
  68 2014-04-27 01:32:57 <splitting> like getinfo and getbalance
  69 2014-04-27 01:33:04 <splitting> but sendtoaddress doesnt work for some reason
  70 2014-04-27 01:33:52 <Arnavion> It *is* dogecoind isn't it :P
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  83 2014-04-27 01:44:35 <_alp_> splitting: Shibian slip?
  84 2014-04-27 01:45:09 <splitting> lol yeah
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  86 2014-04-27 01:45:20 <splitting> i mean im working with multiple coins
  87 2014-04-27 01:45:31 <splitting> i figure the rpc is the same for each so im in here too since its a larger channel
  88 2014-04-27 01:46:06 <petertodd> splitting: I succesfully used https://github.com/petertodd/python-bitcoinlib w/ dogecoind RPC a few weeks ago; give it a try
  89 2014-04-27 01:46:33 <splitting> alright
  90 2014-04-27 01:46:41 <splitting> thanks
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 166 2014-04-27 03:58:16 <warren> Strange behavior ... bitcoind occasionally gets stuck and stops syncing blocks ... until you kill insight and stop using RPC, then it recovers.
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 170 2014-04-27 04:06:20 <sipa> insight?
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 177 2014-04-27 04:15:04 <MananP> How do I debug transactions that I send to the testnet blockchain? They aren't even showing up on the blockchain. I'm using bitcore's TransactionBuilder to make the raw transactions.
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 259 2014-04-27 07:04:14 <xdotcommer> which branch should I use... when I use main branch I get this "This is a pre-release test build - use at your own risk - do not use for mining or merchant applications"
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 270 2014-04-27 07:12:57 <wumpus> xdotcommer: use tag v0.9.1 
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 272 2014-04-27 07:13:35 <xdotcommer> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/tree/0.9.1 ?
 273 2014-04-27 07:13:58 <fanquake> xdotcommer https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/releases
 274 2014-04-27 07:14:00 <wumpus> you can use that one as well, but for consistency it's best to build a tag
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 276 2014-04-27 07:14:15 <wumpus> (as the same tag is used to build the distributed executables)
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 291 2014-04-27 07:55:07 <xdotcommer> wumpus: thanks that build went nicely
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 311 2014-04-27 08:36:50 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|05:17:26 <warren> anyone have the 1st generation USB mining sticks?
 312 2014-04-27 08:37:13 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|warren: I don't know if what I have is a "1st generation", but I have one of the 330 Mh/s block erupters
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 315 2014-04-27 08:37:47 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Aluminum heatsink attached with plastic screws, bright green LED that's off when mining and on when not, requires a silicon labs driver,
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 317 2014-04-27 08:38:04 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|uses a chip marked BE100
 318 2014-04-27 08:38:08 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Why do you ask?
 319 2014-04-27 08:38:11 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|;;seen warren
 320 2014-04-27 08:38:11 <gribble> warren was last seen in #bitcoin-dev 4 hours, 39 minutes, and 54 seconds ago: <warren> Strange behavior ... bitcoind occasionally gets stuck and stops syncing blocks ... until you kill insight and stop using RPC, then it recovers.
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 325 2014-04-27 08:43:37 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|;;later tell warren 05:17:26 <warren> anyone have the 1st generation USB mining sticks? <-- I don't know if what I have is a "1st generation", but I have one of the 330 Mh/s block erupters. Aluminum heatsink with a Bitcoin logo, attached with plastic screws, bright green LED that's off when mining and on when not, requires a silicon labs driver, uses a chip
 326 2014-04-27 08:43:37 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|marked BE100. Why do you ask?
 327 2014-04-27 08:43:37 <gribble> The operation succeeded.
 328 2014-04-27 08:43:52 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|;;later tell warren ...marked BE100. Why do you ask?
 329 2014-04-27 08:43:52 <gribble> The operation succeeded.
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 375 2014-04-27 09:57:51 <arubi> guys, I'm scared. I see a lot of "ResendWalletTransactions()" in debug.log between 3 days and two days ago
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 378 2014-04-27 10:01:02 <arubi> anyone knows what could be going on? I didn't send any bitcoin
 379 2014-04-27 10:02:31 grau has joined
 380 2014-04-27 10:02:50 <arubi> nothing seems to be missing.. I'm also seeing ResendWalletTransactions() in litecoin's debug.log, and also some "Flushing walet.dat" + "Flushed wallet.dat"
 381 2014-04-27 10:03:25 <azariah4> Hi, where can I find documentation on exactly what parts of the tx struct the tx hash is over?
 382 2014-04-27 10:03:30 <arubi> the messages in litecoin's debug log started two days earlier, but they also stopped on the 25th like bitcoin
 383 2014-04-27 10:03:52 IndigoMan1 has joined
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 385 2014-04-27 10:04:44 <IndigoMan1> Hi .. does anyone know how to get the BTC per Block from the blockchain.info api ? I can't seem to figure it out
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 396 2014-04-27 10:16:32 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|arubi: seeing that is normal
 397 2014-04-27 10:16:44 <arubi> really? oh man
 398 2014-04-27 10:17:24 <arubi> I thoght that function broadcasts tx's that were not confirmed by a block after some time
 399 2014-04-27 10:17:33 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Yes, it does
 400 2014-04-27 10:17:45 <arubi> I have none of these..
 401 2014-04-27 10:17:53 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|I think that line is printed to the log whenever the function is triggered
 402 2014-04-27 10:18:05 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Whether or not it's actually doing anything
 403 2014-04-27 10:18:05 <arubi> I mean, I haven't sent any in a while
 404 2014-04-27 10:18:38 <arubi> so the function will trigger even if there are no unconfirmed broadcasted tx's?
 405 2014-04-27 10:18:42 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|If it's actually doing anything, you'll see something like this:
 406 2014-04-27 10:18:44 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|2014-04-26 20:39:42 ResendWalletTransactions()
 407 2014-04-27 10:18:44 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|2014-04-26 20:39:42 Relaying wtx 75461a28aff1d30b43747631beea11b96e2ff40a09ae943f2c0205053cb25203
 408 2014-04-27 10:19:54 <arubi> Ah, so if I don't see the "Relaying wtx.." bit, then nothing is actually being done?
 409 2014-04-27 10:20:13 <arubi> like running the function with an empty queue?
 410 2014-04-27 10:20:18 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Exactly.
 411 2014-04-27 10:20:23 <arubi> phew
 412 2014-04-27 10:20:33 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|One sec, I'll grep for it
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 414 2014-04-27 10:22:27 <arubi> yea I see on line 909 in wallet.cpp
 415 2014-04-27 10:22:42 <arubi> well in 0.9.1 that is
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 417 2014-04-27 10:23:27 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Oh, I just found it at line 914
 418 2014-04-27 10:23:39 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Not sure what I'm checked out at, though
 419 2014-04-27 10:23:43 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|probably master
 420 2014-04-27 10:23:50 <arubi> ohhh so it even takes care of other tx's, not my own
 421 2014-04-27 10:23:59 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Transactions to or from you.
 422 2014-04-27 10:24:07 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|So, any unconfirmed transactions in your wallet
 423 2014-04-27 10:24:18 <arubi> oh okay
 424 2014-04-27 10:25:07 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Yeah, so it looks like it prints that as soon as it decides to rebroadcast, before it even looks at the wallet
 425 2014-04-27 10:25:56 <arubi> Yea, and only runs RelatWalletTransaction() for each tx
 426 2014-04-27 10:25:59 <arubi> in my case, none
 427 2014-04-27 10:26:18 <arubi> well, that was a scary morning. thanks michagogo|cloud
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 563 2014-04-27 14:43:07 <modyn> I need somebody who are good in Linux . I gonna pay you /msg me
 564 2014-04-27 14:43:25 <arubi> what do you need modyn?
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 609 2014-04-27 15:43:03 <ThickAsThieves> question, has it ever been considered to remove the decimal place from Bitcoin altogether? Just using satoshis in all displays and such? I know that the software mostly works as satoshis, but would changing COIN to 1 be okay? If this has been discussed, what were the best arguments for not doing it?
 610 2014-04-27 15:45:35 lclc has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
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 612 2014-04-27 15:48:26 <sipa> ThickAsThieves: is there any good reason for doing that?
 613 2014-04-27 15:48:56 <sipa> software can work.with multiple denominations, if BTC is too inconvenient to use
 614 2014-04-27 15:49:12 <sipa> you can choose mBTC or uBTC to display values as
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 616 2014-04-27 15:49:51 <sipa> changing COIN would break compatibility in tje RPC interface
 617 2014-04-27 15:50:15 <ThickAsThieves> well the reason is that i think moving the denomination more than once is silly
 618 2014-04-27 15:50:43 <ThickAsThieves> and
 619 2014-04-27 15:50:53 <sipa> i don't think of it as changing denominations
 620 2014-04-27 15:50:56 <ThickAsThieves> that the actual users have a lot of trouble with mbtc and ubtc
 621 2014-04-27 15:51:21 <sipa> there is a long discussion going on about that on the mailing list, take it there
 622 2014-04-27 15:51:23 <ThickAsThieves> mbtc seems toally arbitrary
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 624 2014-04-27 15:51:42 <ThickAsThieves> i know nothing of the mailing list
 625 2014-04-27 15:52:01 <sipa> but changing COIN is very different from changing tje default denomination in user interfaces
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 627 2014-04-27 15:52:37 <ThickAsThieves> my concept would be to just remove the usage of decimals altogether
 628 2014-04-27 15:52:37 <sipa> in any case, that sort of thing requires.community consensus, not developer attention
 629 2014-04-27 15:53:00 <sipa> especially not developers for one client that is hardly used by end users
 630 2014-04-27 15:53:08 <ThickAsThieves> and more likely implemented in Altcoin (ATC)
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 633 2014-04-27 15:54:04 <ThickAsThieves> bitcoin probably approaching the point where "community consensus" = paralyzation
 634 2014-04-27 15:54:44 <sipa> perhaps, but i don't see what we can do about it
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 636 2014-04-27 15:55:15 <sipa> changing how the reference client presents thogs will just break compatibility, and hardly any user would see it
 637 2014-04-27 15:55:40 <sipa> *things
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 639 2014-04-27 15:55:45 <ThickAsThieves> indeed
 640 2014-04-27 15:55:53 <ThickAsThieves> kinda why i wanna try it on atc f
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 643 2014-04-27 15:56:14 <sipa> try as you.may
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 673 2014-04-27 16:20:18 <ndak> hi i need to install openvpn server with PEM. I gonna pay you for the help /msg me
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 695 2014-04-27 17:12:39 <hearn> integrated Tor support in bitcoinj - merged! \o/
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 719 2014-04-27 17:35:07 <ProfMac> I'm reading more source code.  I started with submitblock in rpc mining and I'm tracing the execution path.  I need to pick up where to read the source when the peers receive the block.  I thought RecvLine looked promising, but deoxygen says it is used in relaytransaction.
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 724 2014-04-27 17:36:47 <sipa> ProfMac: i'm confused
 725 2014-04-27 17:37:26 <sipa> submitblock will call Process block from main to validate and store the block locally
 726 2014-04-27 17:37:49 <sipa> which calls AddToBlockIndex, AcceptBlock, ... and several others
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 728 2014-04-27 17:38:31 <sipa> if the new blocks happens to end up being the new best block, one of those functions will call SendMessage or Inventory or something on all peers to announce the new block
 729 2014-04-27 17:38:49 <sipa> (from mobile, i can't read the source now, i may miss things)
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 733 2014-04-27 17:42:57 <jgarzik> Source code exists so I don't have to remember details precisely ;p
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 740 2014-04-27 17:47:50 <ProfMac> I'm confused too.  I think I'm interested in path submitblock ---> processblock ---> pushgetblocks ---> CNode::pushmessage   (then the block goes out the net & to a peer)  when that block shows up on a connection at the peer, I want to pick up reading the source code there.
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 746 2014-04-27 17:51:20 <ProfMac> is it an rpc call on 8332?  or something else on the peer-peer connection that is already established?
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 766 2014-04-27 18:07:31 <arubi> ProfMac, maybe you mean UpdateTip?
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 768 2014-04-27 18:08:19 <jgarzik> ProfMac, at a high level, when a new block is pushed via RPC submitblock, it is processed by the local node.  If the local node verifies the block, the local node adds the block's hash to the inventory lists for each connected node.  This triggered an "inv" P2P message to connected peers, which then determine if they are interested in that hash.
 769 2014-04-27 18:08:29 <jgarzik> ProfMac, it is a flood-fill algorithm, similar to Usenet
 770 2014-04-27 18:08:38 <sipa> ProfMac: in net.cpp, there is a netwoek handler thread thay receives data and puts it in CNode receive biffers
 771 2014-04-27 18:09:06 <sipa> ProfMac: there there is a message handler thread in net.cpp that deals with these, which calls ProcessMessages in main for the actual ahndling
 772 2014-04-27 18:09:14 <sipa> whih calls ProcessMessage and ProcessBlock
 773 2014-04-27 18:09:45 <sipa> sorry for typing
 774 2014-04-27 18:12:31 <ProfMac> Thanks guys.  I'll go track these hints down and see if it comes together for me.
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 776 2014-04-27 18:13:22 <sipa> the big thing to understand is how the two threads work together
 777 2014-04-27 18:13:47 <sipa> one which does communication between the network and node's send and receive buffers
 778 2014-04-27 18:13:49 <ProfMac> lol.  Yes, that is the big (elusive) thing.
 779 2014-04-27 18:14:06 <sipa> and another that deals with actually processing/constructing the messages
 780 2014-04-27 18:14:33 <sipa> the reason to split them up is that send/receive don't requite locking the core data structures
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 783 2014-04-27 18:15:48 <sipa> it's quite symmetrical, with the handler thread calling SendMessages or ProcessMessages alternatingly on peers
 784 2014-04-27 18:17:37 <ProfMac> All these comments make sense to me.  I think I'm almost there.  A decade ago I wrote SMTP receiver / processors, but in a different language.  The explanation you're giving has the right "feel" to me, I just am not fluent in C++
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 791 2014-04-27 18:27:15 <ProfMac> this?   --->  bool CNode::ReceiveMsgBytes(const char *pch, unsigned int nBytes)
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 793 2014-04-27 18:28:38 <sipa> that's part of.it yes
 794 2014-04-27 18:29:07 <Luke-Jr> so wizkid057 and I were discussing how to handle transaction fees in GBT when the pool isn't providing transactions; thinking miners adding fees beyond what is claimed by the pool should automatically go to whoever the miner wishes (and when fees overtake subsidy, pools can require miners add X fees to particpate)
 795 2014-04-27 18:29:10 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: lechuga_: ^
 796 2014-04-27 18:29:12 <Luke-Jr> thoughts?
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 798 2014-04-27 18:30:29 <wizkid057> what is technically "claimed by the pool" though?
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 800 2014-04-27 18:30:50 <wizkid057> if the miner is doing txn processing with a full node, the txns could potentially be completely different
 801 2014-04-27 18:30:55 <wizkid057> not that they should
 802 2014-04-27 18:31:30 <Luke-Jr> wizkid057: pool-provided coinbase spends X amount :P
 803 2014-04-27 18:31:43 <wizkid057> and if they dont have enough txns to cover that?
 804 2014-04-27 18:31:48 <wizkid057> *txnfees
 805 2014-04-27 18:32:46 <gmaxwell> Luke-Jr: I think it probably makes sense to do the pooling calculations seperately for fees and subsidy, since the options available to each are different.
 806 2014-04-27 18:33:08 <Luke-Jr> wizkid057: then they cannot participate in the pool?
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 810 2014-04-27 18:33:53 <gmaxwell> Luke-Jr: thats a bit lame. Or at least it strongly encourages the pool to always do nearly zero tx blocks on its own.
 811 2014-04-27 18:33:59 <Luke-Jr> of course, we could also extend GBT so the miner gives the pool a hint on fees it is willing to share
 812 2014-04-27 18:34:18 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: huh? the miner can *always* add transactions with this idea
 813 2014-04-27 18:34:29 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: if there are fees beyond what the pool is claiming for itself, the miner just gets them himself
 814 2014-04-27 18:34:55 <wizkid057> well, looking way forward to fees>subsidy times, fees will need to be included in the pool reward system in some fashion for distribution to all miners
 815 2014-04-27 18:35:35 <wizkid057> for now though, I would think a GBT miner should just get fees if they are not using any txn data from the pool
 816 2014-04-27 18:36:07 <ndak> hi anybody who could help me install bitcoind with rpcserver. i pay you for doing this /msg me
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 818 2014-04-27 18:37:53 <arubi> ^^ this looks like a scam, someone with a different 4 letter nickname was here before suggesting the same deal
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 823 2014-04-27 18:39:42 <UserGodCoin> The future of hashing is here - http://goo.gl/a9vHRc  Start Mining Now!
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 838 2014-04-27 18:58:14 <ndak> hi anybody who could help me install bitcoind with rpcserver on debian 7. i pay you for doing this /msg me
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 850 2014-04-27 19:23:36 <ndak> configure: error: Found Berkeley DB other than 4.8, required for portable wallets (--with-incompatible-bdb to ignore)
 851 2014-04-27 19:23:38 <ndak> how to fix it?
 852 2014-04-27 19:25:00 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|ndak: do what it tells you
 853 2014-04-27 19:25:08 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Add --with-incompatible-bdb
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 855 2014-04-27 19:25:26 <gmaxwell> michagogo|cloud: I guess we need to remove that advice because that is _not_ what its telling you to do there.
 856 2014-04-27 19:25:31 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Also, run `./configure --help` and read that, it will tell you all the options
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 858 2014-04-27 19:25:48 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|ndak: if you're willing to have incompatible wallets, that is
 859 2014-04-27 19:26:06 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|(it's usually okay)
 860 2014-04-27 19:26:09 <gmaxwell> If you do that your wallet will forever be incompatible, bdb >4.8.x is also not well tested. If it were a free choice it would do it for you.
 861 2014-04-27 19:26:37 <ndak> is it better to use bdb?
 862 2014-04-27 19:26:40 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|gmaxwell: I wouldn't advise that people do it, if it weren't for the fact that downgrading is very easy
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 864 2014-04-27 19:26:52 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|ndak: you must use BDB if you want the wallet functionality
 865 2014-04-27 19:27:04 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|The question is the version
 866 2014-04-27 19:27:04 <gmaxwell> Downgrading is impossible once you've done it.
 867 2014-04-27 19:27:12 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|gmaxwell: huh?
 868 2014-04-27 19:27:34 <ndak> michagogo|cloud: so how do i fix it? should i update bdb?
 869 2014-04-27 19:27:35 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|db5.1_dump wallet.dat | db4.8_load wallet.dat.4.8
 870 2014-04-27 19:27:36 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: not impossible, just requires explicitly doing so..
 871 2014-04-27 19:27:46 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|ndak: No.
 872 2014-04-27 19:28:04 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|ndak: Either get BDB 4.8, or use --with-incompatible-bdb to use whatever BDB you have
 873 2014-04-27 19:28:18 <ndak> michagogo|cloud: how do i get bdb 4.8?
 874 2014-04-27 19:28:22 <gmaxwell> michagogo|cloud: I'd not even heard of anyone testing that. Didn't have any idea that worked.
 875 2014-04-27 19:28:38 <gmaxwell> Also this shouldn't be in #bitcoin-dev, I'd previously answered him in #bitcoin
 876 2014-04-27 19:29:00 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|gmaxwell: ah, didn't see that
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 878 2014-04-27 19:29:26 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|gmaxwell: idk, I've seen others (sipa?) telling people that a lot
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 895 2014-04-27 19:51:10 <ndak> do i need to do `make -f Makefile.unix bitcoind`??
 896 2014-04-27 19:52:11 <netg_> without bitcoind
 897 2014-04-27 19:52:26 <Luke-Jr> and makefile.unix is lowercase
 898 2014-04-27 19:52:34 <Luke-Jr> also, that is for only old versions
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 902 2014-04-27 19:56:00 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|ndak: get the latest version of the source
 903 2014-04-27 19:56:20 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|git clone https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin;cd bitcoin;git checkout v0.9.1
 904 2014-04-27 19:56:26 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Then read doc/build-unix
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 910 2014-04-27 20:02:44 <sipa> gmaxwell, michagogo|cloud: i believe i've tried the db5.1_dump | db4.8_load trick myself
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 913 2014-04-27 20:04:09 <Diablo-D3> http://gizmodo.com/new-vulnerability-found-in-every-single-version-of-inte-1568383903
 914 2014-04-27 20:05:57 <GAit> Diablo-D3: sigh
 915 2014-04-27 20:06:36 <midnightmagic> love those insane stock photos
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 917 2014-04-27 20:06:39 <GAit> you have have remote desktop without having to give any bloody permission, just click this link
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 922 2014-04-27 20:09:07 <GAit> i wonder if it can be used even without internet explorer as default on windows by using some different extention that is normally handled by IE but still embed the exploit (if possible)
 923 2014-04-27 20:10:14 <GAit> doesn't say if MS outlook is at risk or embedded webviews
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 925 2014-04-27 20:11:42 <uiop> are there any altcoins that do something equivalent to (or at all resembling): their transactions transfer a quantity of their unit (like bitcoin) *and also* record a transfer "in the reverse direction" (although rev target address need not be == to fwd src) of a quantity of some other unit ?
 926 2014-04-27 20:12:36 <uiop> (the motivation being to record a "sale" of a given quantity of something for a given quantity of xxxcoins)
 927 2014-04-27 20:12:54 * uiop was pondering this earlier
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 929 2014-04-27 20:13:30 <arubi> uiop, but how can you send something back? to where?
 930 2014-04-27 20:13:34 <belcher> you mean trading coins between chains
 931 2014-04-27 20:13:44 <midnightmagic> short OP_RETURN don't have priority in the free txn list by default do they?
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 934 2014-04-27 20:14:13 <sipa> uiop: what's the point?
 935 2014-04-27 20:14:19 <uiop> belcher: that could be an application, sure (modulo having some way to translate from xxxcoin addresses and that altcoin's addresses)
 936 2014-04-27 20:14:37 <belcher> there is a way to do that, somewhere on the bitcoin wiki
 937 2014-04-27 20:14:47 * uiop responds to arubi then
 938 2014-04-27 20:14:51 <uiop> ...then sipa
 939 2014-04-27 20:15:01 <sipa> uiop: and a chain does not know or care about another chain
 940 2014-04-27 20:15:05 <uiop> <arubi> uiop, but how can you send something back? to where?
 941 2014-04-27 20:15:21 <uiop> sipa, right, i didn't have a cross-chain transfer application in mind
 942 2014-04-27 20:15:53 <sipa> so what would you be sending back? from the perspective of one chain, the only unit is that chain's currency
 943 2014-04-27 20:16:29 <arubi> hehe good point
 944 2014-04-27 20:16:39 <uiop> arubi: good point. so a transaction that "sells" some yyy's for some xxxcoins is the same as a transaction that "buys" some yyy's for xxxcoins
 945 2014-04-27 20:16:45 <sipa> if you're talking about multiple units within one chain (colored coins, ...), you can make transactions that do both at the same time, at the transactors's discretion
 946 2014-04-27 20:17:10 <sipa> i don't understand what you're doing, and i certainly don't think it applies to bitcoin
 947 2014-04-27 20:17:16 <uiop> arubi: if that's isn't what you were getting at, then what do you mean?
 948 2014-04-27 20:17:25 <uiop> sipa:
 949 2014-04-27 20:17:55 <arubi> uiop, nothing is being sent anywhere in bitcoin. everyone knows the same stuff
 950 2014-04-27 20:18:26 <arubi> only difference is which transactions can you sign. those are your coins\
 951 2014-04-27 20:18:40 <uiop> sipa: my goal would be to allow recording not only of transfers of the coin's coin, but also the (symbol::String, quantity) of items exchanged for those coins
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 953 2014-04-27 20:19:16 <sipa> uiop: so you are trading something else, which means color coins/smart property/... that's all very possible and doesn't need any special arrangements
 954 2014-04-27 20:19:22 <uiop> sipa: so one example would be that you could implement a distributed "stock" (where stock := symbol::String) exchange
 955 2014-04-27 20:19:36 <sipa> uiop: if you want to create a transaction that moves X from a to b, and Y from b to a, you already can
 956 2014-04-27 20:19:41 <sipa> but it's offtopic here
 957 2014-04-27 20:20:07 <uiop> sipa: right, exactly. it's the same idea as colored coins, but with the "coloring" data stored within the blockchain of the coin itself
 958 2014-04-27 20:20:30 <sipa> ...
 959 2014-04-27 20:20:40 <uiop> sipa: sry i know it's offtopic, but i thought i would get the most intelligent responses (if any) in here :)
 960 2014-04-27 20:21:54 <uiop> arubi: right, i know that nothing is being "sent" with bitcoins, but allow the simplicity of using the word "transfered" for brevity while (trying to) introducing other concepts with precision ;)
 961 2014-04-27 20:21:58 <gmaxwell> midnightmagic: they'll have higher priority than long ones, by virtue of being smaller.
 962 2014-04-27 20:22:06 banghouse has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 963 2014-04-27 20:22:27 <uiop> anyways, thx for teh responses
 964 2014-04-27 20:23:14 grau has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 965 2014-04-27 20:23:22 <uiop> sipa: (i hadn't thought of it in the context of colored coins, mainly because i'm not read up on them)
 966 2014-04-27 20:23:37 <arubi> uiop, I still can't understand, from bitcoin's perspective what does it mean to send "back". I know what you mean by "send", but now by "back"
 967 2014-04-27 20:23:51 <arubi> but talk to me in private so we can stay on topic here :)
 968 2014-04-27 20:23:58 <uiop> arubi: a concrete exam..
 969 2014-04-27 20:23:59 <uiop> ok
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 973 2014-04-27 20:27:40 <sipa> gmaxwell, wumpus, Luke-Jr: any objections that we remove midstate/hash1 from getwork() ?
 974 2014-04-27 20:28:29 epscy has joined
 975 2014-04-27 20:28:52 <gmaxwell> sipa: fixing the psycho half-implementation of sha256 in the codebase?
 976 2014-04-27 20:29:16 <sipa> gmaxwell: removing it :)
 977 2014-04-27 20:29:32 <gmaxwell> I don't. (I'd be in favor of removing getwork entirely.)
 978 2014-04-27 20:29:43 <sipa> that'd be even easier :)
 979 2014-04-27 20:30:54 <gmaxwell> last time we discussed it IIRC jgarzik squaked some— though I think with cgminer and bfgminer both supporting solo mining from gbt, maybe his objections are gone— and doublec sqaked some but said he was moving off of it.
 980 2014-04-27 20:31:21 <Luke-Jr> sipa: AFAIK, midstate/hash1 were deprecated in 0.8
 981 2014-04-27 20:31:54 <Luke-Jr> +1 to removing getwork
 982 2014-04-27 20:32:23 <sipa> so, what i'm doing: i'm adding a native sha256/sha512 implementation, wrapped in a C++ type that encapsulates its state
 983 2014-04-27 20:32:59 <sipa> which means the built-in miner could be implemented by taking such an object, writing all but the nonce to it, and iterating by copying state state, writing the nonce, and getting the result
 984 2014-04-27 20:33:14 <sipa> probably a bit less efficient, but certainly more readable for a reference implementation
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 986 2014-04-27 20:34:53 <Luke-Jr> why keep the built-in miner? <.<
 987 2014-04-27 20:35:26 <sipa> i don't object to having a reference implementation
 988 2014-04-27 20:35:38 <sipa> if enough people don't mind it being gone, that's even easier :)
 989 2014-04-27 20:38:38 <gmaxwell> I think we do need to ship a miner, otherwise testnet / regtest is not so useful. It doesn't need to be in the process proper.
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 999 2014-04-27 20:55:47 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: why does everything have to be shipped together?
1000 2014-04-27 20:55:55 <Luke-Jr> regtest does not need a miner at all..
1001 2014-04-27 20:56:55 <Luke-Jr> we have BFGMiner. there's no reason that cannot be used when people need to mine.
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1006 2014-04-27 21:01:51 <gmaxwell> Because Bitcoind should be a complete implementation of a bitcoin node.
1007 2014-04-27 21:02:00 <gmaxwell> It is not complete without the mining functionality.
1008 2014-04-27 21:06:40 kadoban has joined
1009 2014-04-27 21:10:29 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: sure it is, mining is not a node thing
1010 2014-04-27 21:12:06 justusranvier has joined
1011 2014-04-27 21:12:48 <midnightmagic> +1, complete functionality
1012 2014-04-27 21:12:50 TYDIRocks has joined
1013 2014-04-27 21:13:22 <midnightmagic> even if only as a functional reference
1014 2014-04-27 21:13:41 <belcher> if it ever breaks, how long until someone notices?
1015 2014-04-27 21:13:44 <TYDIRocks> Hello I'm running an ubuntu liveCD. I copied over the bitcoin core .tar.gz, extracted it to my documents and when I attempt to open the bitcoin-qt I get: There is no application installed for "shared library" files.
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1018 2014-04-27 21:14:07 <belcher> it would be used for testnet, so pretty soon i realise
1019 2014-04-27 21:14:18 <Luke-Jr> belcher: it's not wise to use it for testnet
1020 2014-04-27 21:14:29 <Luke-Jr> it's like 1000 times slower than any decent CPU miner
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1024 2014-04-27 21:18:16 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: midnightmagic: keep in mind that a dirt-simple reference miner is included with libblkmaker (where it makes sense)
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1027 2014-04-27 21:18:51 <TYDIRocks> Can someone please help me with the error
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1030 2014-04-27 21:20:00 <arubi> TYDIRocks, are you trying to double click the "bitcoin-qt.pro" file?
1031 2014-04-27 21:20:03 <arubi> or what?
1032 2014-04-27 21:20:22 <TYDIRocks> arubi, the file extension isn't shown. I'm trying to double click it though yes.
1033 2014-04-27 21:20:36 <arubi> alright, can you tell me the path of the file?
1034 2014-04-27 21:20:49 <arubi> is it in a folder called bin?
1035 2014-04-27 21:20:54 <TYDIRocks> arubi, it's in the /bin/32 folder
1036 2014-04-27 21:21:09 <TYDIRocks> same error with the 64
1037 2014-04-27 21:21:20 <arubi> ubuntu you say, right?
1038 2014-04-27 21:21:27 <arubi> try right clicking the file
1039 2014-04-27 21:21:38 <arubi> then properties
1040 2014-04-27 21:21:57 <arubi> permissions -> "allow executing file as program"
1041 2014-04-27 21:22:05 <arubi> then try to double click again
1042 2014-04-27 21:22:21 <TYDIRocks> arubi, it is already checked
1043 2014-04-27 21:23:30 <arubi> it sounds like you're missing some libraries
1044 2014-04-27 21:23:52 lolstate has quit (Quit: lolstate)
1045 2014-04-27 21:23:59 <arubi> I don't know which though. can you try running "ldd bitcoin-qt" from terminal? (in the bitcoin-qt folder that is)
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1047 2014-04-27 21:24:36 <TYDIRocks> arubi, it "not a dynamic executable"
1048 2014-04-27 21:25:06 <arubi> I know it should be
1049 2014-04-27 21:25:15 <arubi> i mean, should be static
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1052 2014-04-27 21:26:16 <TYDIRocks> that's all it came up with
1053 2014-04-27 21:26:27 <arubi> TYDIRocks, try executing the file from terminal
1054 2014-04-27 21:26:30 <arubi> not from the gui
1055 2014-04-27 21:26:35 <TYDIRocks> ./bitcoin-qt right?
1056 2014-04-27 21:26:40 <arubi> yea
1057 2014-04-27 21:26:50 <arubi> it might work, and might give a better error
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1059 2014-04-27 21:27:00 <TYDIRocks> I've been trying to do that but it says no such file or directory
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1061 2014-04-27 21:27:19 <arubi> you have to cd into the directory you extracted the tar.gz to
1062 2014-04-27 21:27:32 <TYDIRocks> I am in it
1063 2014-04-27 21:27:34 <arubi> so "cd ~/Documents/bitc<TAB>"
1064 2014-04-27 21:27:42 <TYDIRocks> I know, I'm in the directory
1065 2014-04-27 21:27:51 <arubi> type ls
1066 2014-04-27 21:27:54 <arubi> what do you see then?
1067 2014-04-27 21:28:14 <TYDIRocks> I see all the normal files (bitcoin-qt, bitcoind, etc)
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1069 2014-04-27 21:28:38 <arubi> what do you mean all? there should be 2 files in the ./bin directory
1070 2014-04-27 21:29:04 <TYDIRocks> bitcoin-cli, bitcoin-cli.static, bitcoind, bitcoind.static, bitcoin-qt, test_bitcoin, test_bitcoin.qt
1071 2014-04-27 21:29:45 <arubi> well, I haven't used the binary in a long time, but it seems only bitcoind and bitcoin-cli are static?
1072 2014-04-27 21:30:26 <arubi> type "file bitcoin-qt"
1073 2014-04-27 21:30:44 <arubi> and tell me the output
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1081 2014-04-27 21:34:26 <TYDIRocks> bitcoin-qt: ELF 32-bit LSB shared object, Intel 80386, version 1 (SVSV), dynamically linked (uses shared libs), for GNU/Linux 2.6.24, BuildID(sha1)=0x3de6890ffd5151d3bc7fdb4f9bcacc54a04796bf, stripped
1082 2014-04-27 21:34:31 <TYDIRocks> Sorry had to type that all out by hand
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1086 2014-04-27 21:37:59 <arubi> TYDIRocks, I'm not a linux guru or anything, but that doesn't seem like a static binary
1087 2014-04-27 21:38:10 <arubi> what if you try to "file bitcoind.static" ?
1088 2014-04-27 21:38:35 <arubi> for example : /bin/busybox: ELF 64-bit LSB executable, x86-64, version 1 (SYSV), statically linked, for GNU/Linux 2.6.24, BuildID[sha1]=0x3aa5...
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1090 2014-04-27 21:38:44 <TYDIRocks> Same thing but it says it is statically linked
1091 2014-04-27 21:39:11 <arubi> so I'm guessing you need some libraries to get qt to work
1092 2014-04-27 21:39:23 <arubi> try running ./bitcoind.static from command line
1093 2014-04-27 21:39:26 <arubi> see if that runs
1094 2014-04-27 21:40:03 <TYDIRocks> It talks about the config file and stuff
1095 2014-04-27 21:40:22 <arubi> so it runs normally. use "ldd bitcoin-qt" to see which libraries you're missing
1096 2014-04-27 21:40:36 <arubi> and "apt-get" them. should be no problem even on a livecd
1097 2014-04-27 21:41:03 <TYDIRocks> You already had me run that remember? It just says "not a dynamic executable"
1098 2014-04-27 21:41:14 <arubi> oh I didn't catch that
1099 2014-04-27 21:41:27 <arubi> hmm
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1101 2014-04-27 21:42:09 <arubi> and what happened when you tried running "./bitcoin-qt" from shell?
1102 2014-04-27 21:42:14 <arubi> what was the error that is
1103 2014-04-27 21:42:26 <TYDIRocks> Said the file didn't exist for some odd reason
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1105 2014-04-27 21:42:52 <arubi> can you try "ls -l bitcoin-qt" ?
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1109 2014-04-27 21:46:02 <TYDIRocks> -rxwr -xr -x 1 ubuntu ubuntu 12168128 Apr 8 16:22 bitcoin-qt
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1111 2014-04-27 21:46:53 <arubi> that's so weird... try to "apt-get install" another shell, like 'csh', and run bitcoin-qt through that...
1112 2014-04-27 21:47:04 <ADHD> Is there a good community anywhere for altcoin dev?  /msg alis list *altcoin* led to dead ends.
1113 2014-04-27 21:47:53 <Luke-Jr> ADHD: altcoins, in general, don't have dev; they're just copy/paste/rename pump and dump scams.. the few exceptions tend to have dedicated channels
1114 2014-04-27 21:48:48 <TYDIRocks> it says unable to locate package csh
1115 2014-04-27 21:49:01 <TYDIRocks> is it called something else?
1116 2014-04-27 21:49:13 <arubi> did you "sudo apt-get update" before that?
1117 2014-04-27 21:49:41 <Luke-Jr> TYDIRocks: I'd suggest trying a .. normal shell .. if you're going to try another one
1118 2014-04-27 21:49:47 <Luke-Jr> like BASH or dash
1119 2014-04-27 21:49:49 <TYDIRocks> yes
1120 2014-04-27 21:49:49 <Luke-Jr> or busybox
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1122 2014-04-27 21:49:55 <arubi> he is on bash right now
1123 2014-04-27 21:50:28 <arubi> busybox has ash, that could work
1124 2014-04-27 21:50:33 <ADHD> Luke-Jr: Bummer.  I'm hopping to develop something legit and would like a group that I could ping my code & ideas off of.
1125 2014-04-27 21:50:34 <Luke-Jr> [21:40:11] <TYDIRocks> Said the file didn't exist for some odd reason <-- this suggests wrong architecture/platform to me
1126 2014-04-27 21:50:42 <arubi> he's trying both
1127 2014-04-27 21:50:45 <ADHD> *hoping*
1128 2014-04-27 21:50:48 <Luke-Jr> ADHD: why would it be an altcoin, if it's legit? ;)
1129 2014-04-27 21:50:51 <TYDIRocks> Luke-Jr, why wouldn't it work with Ubuntu?
1130 2014-04-27 21:51:01 <Luke-Jr> TYDIRocks: 32-bit on 64-bit or vice-versa
1131 2014-04-27 21:51:20 <arubi> TYDIRocks, run "/bin/busybox ash"
1132 2014-04-27 21:51:31 <ADHD> Luke-Jr: ... that's one way to look at it :-).
1133 2014-04-27 21:51:39 <arubi> then navigate to "./bin/64/ or 32 and try to run ./bitcoin-qt
1134 2014-04-27 21:51:46 <TYDIRocks> Wow I feel like an idiot...it worked with 64
1135 2014-04-27 21:52:01 <arubi> you said you tried them both :P
1136 2014-04-27 21:52:13 <TYDIRocks> I tried double clicking them both not running from terminal lol
1137 2014-04-27 21:52:36 <arubi> so double clicking the 64 binary presents an error, but it runs from terminal?
1138 2014-04-27 21:52:46 <TYDIRocks> yup
1139 2014-04-27 21:52:54 <arubi> what silly file explorer are they using in ubuntu now?
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1141 2014-04-27 21:53:45 <TYDIRocks> I'm not sure heh
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1144 2014-04-27 21:54:48 <arubi> ubuntu docs say nautilus. well, silly nautilus then :)
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1146 2014-04-27 21:55:18 <ADHD> Luke-Jr: I guess I can always ping quesitons about the bitcoin source here :)
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1149 2014-04-27 21:55:56 <Luke-Jr> ADHD: this is appropriate
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1197 2014-04-27 22:37:08 <jcorgan> sipa: i've just looked at Haltingstate's go wrapper for your libsecp256k1, and he's including an internal copy of the source.  I'm just curious how quickly this would diverge from you actual library.
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1199 2014-04-27 22:37:24 <jcorgan> *your
1200 2014-04-27 22:37:57 <sipa> i'm fine with merging wrappers for other languages
1201 2014-04-27 22:38:10 <sipa> (though i won't maintain them myself if it's nontrivial)
1202 2014-04-27 22:39:03 <jcorgan> i'm not sure that would work, it seems go modules depend on a certain directory layout that might not fit with yours
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1204 2014-04-27 22:39:26 <jcorgan> but in any case, is there much change in your library these days?
1205 2014-04-27 22:39:42 <sipa> i'm planning to change the api quite significantly
1206 2014-04-27 22:39:51 <sipa> it's too lowlevel now
1207 2014-04-27 22:39:55 <jcorgan> i guess that would be yes :)
1208 2014-04-27 22:41:05 <Luke-Jr> sipa: will it support multiple bignum libs in the same build?
1209 2014-04-27 22:41:22 <sipa> no plans for that
1210 2014-04-27 22:41:42 <Luke-Jr> how about bignum-less? <.<
1211 2014-04-27 22:42:00 <sipa> you mean with a native bignum implementation?
1212 2014-04-27 22:42:13 <sipa> s/native/built-in/
1213 2014-04-27 22:42:21 <Luke-Jr> maybe
1214 2014-04-27 22:42:38 <Luke-Jr> sipa:  is it possible to divide a 256-bit number by a fractional number in under 100 LOC?
1215 2014-04-27 22:42:53 <sipa> define fractional number?
1216 2014-04-27 22:43:23 <Luke-Jr> eg 0.9999847412109375
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1219 2014-04-27 22:44:20 <sipa> in what representation?
1220 2014-04-27 22:44:44 <Luke-Jr> ideally uint8_t[32] and double
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1222 2014-04-27 22:45:22 <sipa> i think the easiest way is to convert that byte array to a double, divide, and convert back :)
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1224 2014-04-27 22:45:30 <sipa> you can't have better precision anyway
1225 2014-04-27 22:45:31 <Luke-Jr> sipa: then you lose the precision :P
1226 2014-04-27 22:45:40 <sipa> the double only has limited precision
1227 2014-04-27 22:45:47 <sipa> so the result won't have more
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1229 2014-04-27 22:45:59 <Luke-Jr> sipa: it will, because the 256-bit number will have higher precision :P
1230 2014-04-27 22:46:02 <Luke-Jr> actually..
1231 2014-04-27 22:46:05 <sipa> no
1232 2014-04-27 22:46:13 <sipa> well, it depends
1233 2014-04-27 22:46:35 <sipa> if you mean "divide a 256-bit number by the *exact* real value of a given double", yes
1234 2014-04-27 22:46:36 * Luke-Jr ponders
1235 2014-04-27 22:46:46 <Luke-Jr> sipa: I do! :P
1236 2014-04-27 22:46:47 <sipa> but likely, that double is only an approximation for some other number already
1237 2014-04-27 22:46:57 <Luke-Jr> that's not my problem.
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1242 2014-04-27 22:47:20 <Luke-Jr> but the 256-bit number is always 2^224-1 anyway
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1244 2014-04-27 22:47:31 <Luke-Jr> I could just do it with 2^224 in FP, and then subtract 1
1245 2014-04-27 22:47:33 <maaku> Luke-Jr: convert the double into an integer fraction
1246 2014-04-27 22:47:33 <Luke-Jr> close enough
1247 2014-04-27 22:47:43 <maaku> multiply, divide
1248 2014-04-27 22:48:05 <Luke-Jr> maaku: then the integer is too large
1249 2014-04-27 22:48:24 <sipa> what range will the double be in?
1250 2014-04-27 22:48:37 <maaku> sipa: 53-bit integer
1251 2014-04-27 22:48:52 <Luke-Jr> >0
1252 2014-04-27 22:48:55 <Luke-Jr> maaku: non-integer
1253 2014-04-27 22:49:15 <maaku> Luke-Jr: you can decompose an IEEE double into an integer fraction with 53 bits of precision
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1255 2014-04-27 22:49:28 <sipa> Luke-Jr: do you already have some uint256 implementation, with subtraction/comparison/bitshift?
1256 2014-04-27 22:49:29 <Luke-Jr> oh that
1257 2014-04-27 22:49:33 <Luke-Jr> sipa: no
1258 2014-04-27 22:49:44 <sipa> then i think it may be a bit over 100 lines, but not much
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1260 2014-04-27 22:52:10 <sipa> though very large or very small double exponents may need several edge cases to deal with
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1313 2014-04-27 23:59:17 <jgarzik> gmaxwell, sipa: remove getwork, but leave internal miner and GBT
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1315 2014-04-27 23:59:38 <ndak> hi
1316 2014-04-27 23:59:38 <ndak> "errors" : "This is a pre-release test build - use at your own risk - do not use for mining or merchant applications"
1317 2014-04-27 23:59:41 <ndak> what does this mean?
1318 2014-04-27 23:59:55 <jgarzik> it will break some ancient setups, but given the modern state of mining, that's OK