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   7 2014-05-02 00:03:07 <Luke-Jr> lechuga_!
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  38 2014-05-02 00:32:56 <maaku> lechuga_: there has been no such change
  39 2014-05-02 00:33:02 <maaku> maybe they're confused about coinjoin?
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 165 2014-05-02 03:04:37 <bomb> do all i need to create a pool is a pushpool all i need the backend of the mining software?
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 216 2014-05-02 03:43:09 <akstunt600>  Hmm just doing my own coin and nticed that the static keys for alert.cpp arent in the current src on github for bitcoin
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 218 2014-05-02 03:43:41 <akstunt600> its in doge an litecoin hard coded in
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 224 2014-05-02 03:49:23 <akstunt600> ehh think i figured it out
 225 2014-05-02 03:49:37 <akstunt600> Still not sure how to test it
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 329 2014-05-02 06:20:12 <tazz> Hey so whats the bitcoin blockchain size currently? As in if I use a bitcoin client locally, how much diskspace will the db take up?
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 331 2014-05-02 06:20:28 <survic> 20GB, give or take.
 332 2014-05-02 06:20:54 <tazz> Ah, ok thanks.
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 522 2014-05-02 08:38:14 <AgentSmurf> i'm trying different client nodes and attempts to connect to a Core 0.9.1 testnet is failing
 523 2014-05-02 08:38:18 <AgentSmurf> what does PROCESSMESSAGE: INVALID MESSAGESTART in the remote testnet debug.log mean?
 524 2014-05-02 08:38:35 ryan`c has joined
 525 2014-05-02 08:39:03 <AgentSmurf> oh hold on...
 526 2014-05-02 08:39:07 AgentSmurf is now known as venzen
 527 2014-05-02 08:39:32 <venzen> (rough night) :)
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 529 2014-05-02 08:40:36 <survic> venzen: you've an addnode= or connect= line in your configuration to a non-testnet node
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 532 2014-05-02 08:42:01 <venzen> survic: i'm using, for example, jgarzik's pynode Python client, so there is no -addnode or -connect, but yes, i'm specifying the remote IP and testnet port (18333)
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 546 2014-05-02 08:42:33 <venzen> this happens with another python client as well
 547 2014-05-02 08:43:13 <venzen> ok, i just reread your post, hold on
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 550 2014-05-02 08:44:58 <venzen> survic: thanks, i have rpcssl enabled, so ...hehe... of course
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 552 2014-05-02 08:45:49 <venzen> no... that should make a difference, i'm connecting via P2P port...
 553 2014-05-02 08:45:57 <venzen> *shouldn't
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 555 2014-05-02 08:47:01 <survic> only reason I mentioned that is that somebody else had that same error earlier by having a manually added node that was on the wrong network.
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 558 2014-05-02 08:48:10 <venzen> sure, an easy error to make, but not the cause in my case...
 559 2014-05-02 08:48:30 <venzen> let me check the code
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 561 2014-05-02 08:49:18 <survic> maybe pynode is sending the wrong network magic?
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 570 2014-05-02 08:54:08 <venzen> that seems the most likely cause, i'm looking for it...
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 573 2014-05-02 08:56:24 <venzen> yeah, i was specifying network: "testnet" but it wanted "testnet3"
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 576 2014-05-02 08:56:38 <venzen> what's that all about, btw?
 577 2014-05-02 08:56:45 <venzen> testnet_3_
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 614 2014-05-02 09:39:17 <jontoas> hello
 615 2014-05-02 09:39:26 <jontoas> i download the torrent bootstrap.dat
 616 2014-05-02 09:39:39 <jontoas> can anyone tell me where to put this files
 617 2014-05-02 09:39:52 <jontoas> i m using mac
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 624 2014-05-02 09:49:19 <TestNaut3> JonathanD: i believe you drop that bootstrap.dat file in ~/Library/Application\ Support/Bitcoin/
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 626 2014-05-02 09:51:50 <wumpus> BlueMatt: the pulltester is still broken :(
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 651 2014-05-02 10:27:14 <survic> TestNaut3: glad you got that sorted.
 652 2014-05-02 10:29:25 <TestNaut3> survic: sure, i'm able to access testnet now and exploring...
 653 2014-05-02 10:29:39 <warren> wumpus: btw, please inform me if you do branch 0.9.2 away from master, the nightly builder would need adjustment
 654 2014-05-02 10:30:35 <wumpus> warren: what are your plans in that case? would you do nightly builds of both 0.9.2 and master branches?
 655 2014-05-02 10:30:59 <warren> wumpus: I can, do you want that?
 656 2014-05-02 10:31:09 <warren> if deps differ please be sure they have different naes
 657 2014-05-02 10:31:10 <warren> names
 658 2014-05-02 10:31:22 <wumpus> warren: I have merged the Linux Qt4.6 compatibility, so you probably need to build the dependency on your nightly builder machine (if you didn't already do so)
 659 2014-05-02 10:31:41 <TestNaut3> wumpus: the ncurses SPV you posted (https://github.com/bit-c/bitc) is great - it can access testnet and is usable
 660 2014-05-02 10:31:42 <wumpus> warren: huh, did I forget that?
 661 2014-05-02 10:32:05 <wumpus> warren: I don't think I've updated any dependencies recently, just added a new one
 662 2014-05-02 10:32:29 <wumpus> TestNaut3: great!
 663 2014-05-02 10:32:30 <warren> mm
 664 2014-05-02 10:32:35 <survic> TestNaut3: I had trouble with that, possibly just a configuration thing but the wallet didn't switch the address versions so I couldn't actually use it.
 665 2014-05-02 10:34:15 <warren> wumpus: doesn't the deps-linux.xml change require a new deps version?
 666 2014-05-02 10:35:13 <warren> well, not require, just convention to avoid confusino
 667 2014-05-02 10:35:45 <wumpus> warren: I don't understand 
 668 2014-05-02 10:35:54 <wumpus> warren: last update to deps-linux was three weeks ago
 669 2014-05-02 10:36:03 <wumpus> warren: went from r4 to r5
 670 2014-05-02 10:36:28 <TestNaut3> survic: yes, it seems a bit more complicated than just telling the binary to use testnet's base58 prefix, because it will need some additional code to differentiate between addresses... i'll open an issue on Github
 671 2014-05-02 10:36:37 <wumpus> so I *did* bump the version
 672 2014-05-02 10:36:43 <warren> oh, misread
 673 2014-05-02 10:36:53 <wumpus> sigh
 674 2014-05-02 10:40:52 <warren> wumpus: any word from coryfields on finishing the gitian mac?
 675 2014-05-02 10:40:59 <wumpus> nope
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 677 2014-05-02 10:46:12 <warren> crud
 678 2014-05-02 10:46:23 <warren> wumpus: did you test the qt-4.6 stuff in gitian?
 679 2014-05-02 10:47:47 <wumpus> warren: it is only in gitian
 680 2014-05-02 10:48:08 <wumpus> it doesn't affect anything else
 681 2014-05-02 10:48:45 <warren> http://nightly.bitcoin.it/.test/build.log
 682 2014-05-02 10:48:56 <warren> sorry, I'm severely lacking sleep
 683 2014-05-02 10:49:03 <warren> I have a build failure when I try that
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 685 2014-05-02 10:49:52 <wumpus> intro.moc:11:2: error: #error "This file was generated using the moc from 4.8.1. It"
 686 2014-05-02 10:49:52 <wumpus> intro.moc:12:2: error: #error "cannot be used with the include files from this version of Qt."
 687 2014-05-02 10:50:05 <wumpus> you're building using the moc from 4.8.1 for some reason
 688 2014-05-02 10:50:17 <wumpus> instead of the one in the qt-linux package
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 691 2014-05-02 10:51:25 <warren> wumpus: perhaps it is my base image that has all packages installed instead of minimum, similar to what gavin does with virtualbox
 692 2014-05-02 10:51:33 <warren> if so, then gitian configure needs some overrides
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 694 2014-05-02 10:52:08 <wumpus> try adding --with-qt-bindir=$STAGING/bin to the configure line
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 697 2014-05-02 10:58:24 <hearn> good morning
 698 2014-05-02 10:58:48 <warren> test building that, brb
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 705 2014-05-02 11:04:00 <TestNaut3> wumpus: i was able to compile 0.9.1 on Ubuntu 14.04 without any hickup. Added the PPA for Trusty, installed libboost1.55 and db4.8 and worked first time, but haven't tried QT yet...
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 708 2014-05-02 11:07:55 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|venzen: um, did you compile or did you use the PPA?
 709 2014-05-02 11:08:00 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Oh, wait, nvm
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 711 2014-05-02 11:08:42 <ohaidere> 01000000010641aba8eeb4ce114ff2118a57daf322b81b70b5b6e55b005a99ae646072ffa0010000008b483045022100ca438a1bf7e66c4f42568d330804cad221ec1a57542d9a26de4f797987f69f1302203d5c3782acb41a1a9eabf399fb3c613486e22dd13d70b8591369528615f05a480141044d909206e2eaaa2fcb54227c2edefd5ad9f6f083007bdb2562978a4bbfe1bb74dd866a03e3ebc5d47772ec1717ad84b124e955d373904ab332d03fd250868d56ffffffff
 712 2014-05-02 11:08:42 <ohaidere> 03400d0300000000001976a91425ed998f48944273dfca3460069bc77907f279d888ac6be30c00000000001976a9142dfe85b061b8ecd73b8dafa12e552b42aca0045488ac0000000000000000236a21506965746572205775696c6c65202873697061292c2049206c6f766520796f752100000000
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 714 2014-05-02 11:09:58 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|...
 715 2014-05-02 11:10:09 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|What is that, a transaction?
 716 2014-05-02 11:10:13 Milanito has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 717 2014-05-02 11:10:57 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|...yep
 718 2014-05-02 11:10:59 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/YCY9DejR
 719 2014-05-02 11:11:39 <arubi> anything interesting?
 720 2014-05-02 11:12:09 <arubi> well, yea
 721 2014-05-02 11:12:16 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Looks like it pays 0.002 to 14TYdpodQQDKVgvUUcpaMzjJwhQ4KYsipa, 0.00844651 to 15CCK9VafRuayDDWh82P2ttH9ZqLBwW2R3
 722 2014-05-02 11:12:24 <arubi> and an op return
 723 2014-05-02 11:12:27 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|and 0 to "OP_RETURN 506965746572205775696c6c65202873697061292c2049206c6f766520796f7521"
 724 2014-05-02 11:12:35 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|brb, decoding
 725 2014-05-02 11:13:12 <warren> wumpus: that works, i'm going to sleep now
 726 2014-05-02 11:13:12 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|...it says "Pieter Wuille (sipa), I love you!"
 727 2014-05-02 11:13:27 <arubi> hehe :)
 728 2014-05-02 11:13:40 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Hm, my node hasn't seen it
 729 2014-05-02 11:13:56 <arubi> wanna broadcast it? :)
 730 2014-05-02 11:14:19 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Nah, I won't
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 732 2014-05-02 11:16:07 <arubi> is it even signed? looks too short
 733 2014-05-02 11:17:03 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Yes, it is
 734 2014-05-02 11:17:13 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|See my paste
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 736 2014-05-02 11:19:39 <arubi> right, my mistake
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 740 2014-05-02 11:25:38 <venzen> michagogo|cloud: i used the PPA to get at the right library packages, but compiled the GitHub 0.9.1 source code
 741 2014-05-02 11:27:14 <warren> wumpus: (builds will be broken until that's checked into master)
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 750 2014-05-02 11:36:32 <venzen> Ubuntu 14.04 has libboost1.53, libdb5.1 and libdb5.3 as standard so adding ppa:bitcoin/bitcoin provides the correct db4.8 and miniupnpc packages. libboost1.55 is part of the universe repository i believe, so a simple upgrade (which breaks libreoffice, but wth)
 751 2014-05-02 11:37:22 <venzen> the PPA instructions and package details are here btw (for all Ubuntu releases): https://launchpad.net/~bitcoin/+archive/bitcoin
 752 2014-05-02 11:37:35 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|venzen: yeah, I realized that
 753 2014-05-02 11:37:45 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|14:05:39 <michagogo|cloud> Oh, wait, nvm
 754 2014-05-02 11:38:01 debiantoruser has joined
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 756 2014-05-02 11:39:00 <venzen>  i was responding  to your remnant post in my 'hilight' window :)
 757 2014-05-02 11:40:45 <venzen> michagogo|cloud: how's gitian building looking for 14.04 - any obstacles? or don't we know?
 758 2014-05-02 11:40:59 * michagogo cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|shrugs
 759 2014-05-02 11:41:30 <venzen> sure, i'll give it a try next week
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 783 2014-05-02 12:07:24 <GAit> hearn: is there an up to date list of clients and servers implementing BIP0070 aka payment protocol? we want to provide support for it for all clients (mobile, desktop, web and the new java app we're working on) and there are a few doubts as to how to handle it on the web client and whether in that case it should be handled by the server or by the client (which complicates things with PKI in js and it doesn't really improve much th
 784 2014-05-02 12:07:35 sploush has joined
 785 2014-05-02 12:07:53 <hearn> clients == bitcoin wallet for android, hive (being developed now), possibly multibit hd (i forgot), bitcoin core.
 786 2014-05-02 12:08:06 <GAit> so no 'web' wallets
 787 2014-05-02 12:08:09 <hearn> servers == bitpay, bittonic.nl, coinbase is developing it now and is close to launch, maybe some others
 788 2014-05-02 12:08:15 <hearn> coinbase is a web wallet. they’re doing both client and server
 789 2014-05-02 12:08:30 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Anyone know what happened to fetchtx.info ?
 790 2014-05-02 12:08:30 <hearn> the right way to do this is just have the server handle it. bitcoinj has an implementation. so you’d have the web app register to handle bitcoin URIs
 791 2014-05-02 12:08:33 <GAit> ok. I guess they will handle it server side like the rest of it
 792 2014-05-02 12:08:59 <hearn> the web app uploads the URI to the server. the server fetches the payment request, parses it, verifies it, extracts the relevant data and sends it back to the client for display
 793 2014-05-02 12:09:06 <hearn> bitcoinj has some classes that make this dead easy
 794 2014-05-02 12:09:19 <hearn> (use git master though as we’re refactoring it a bit to the API better)
 795 2014-05-02 12:09:36 <GAit> thanks mike
 796 2014-05-02 12:09:49 <jerseykx> hearn: that sounds like the simplest implementation. but wouldn't it be kind of better for privacy or even security to do it client-side in the 'local' versions of our app?
 797 2014-05-02 12:10:32 <jerseykx> (chrome extension, android app, upcoming java client)
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 799 2014-05-02 12:10:40 <hearn> sure of course
 800 2014-05-02 12:10:43 <GAit> jerseykx: i was counting on doing it locally for local clients and server side for the web version, unless doing it client side as well is easy (although does not improve things)
 801 2014-05-02 12:10:51 <hearn> you’d only do it server side if your client has to be javascript
 802 2014-05-02 12:11:04 <GAit> yep
 803 2014-05-02 12:11:21 <hearn> actually the bitcoinj current API is designed for local wallets. some of the refactoring is to break it up a bit so it’s easier for other use cases like doing on the server too
 804 2014-05-02 12:11:27 <hearn> but the current API can work as well.
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 806 2014-05-02 12:11:53 <jerseykx> well, chrome extension is also javascript, but with https://github.com/digitalbazaar/forge it seems like it could be done there if we embedded the trusted CA store in the sources
 807 2014-05-02 12:11:54 <hearn> jerseykx: esp if your clients are in java, using the bitcoinj code is the way to go IMO as we’ll be constantly improving it over time
 808 2014-05-02 12:12:36 <hearn> huh wow
 809 2014-05-02 12:12:39 <hearn> tls in pure javascript
 810 2014-05-02 12:12:46 <jerseykx> (which i'm not sure if is a reasonable thing to do, but there doesn't seem to be any way to access system's CA store from the chrome app)
 811 2014-05-02 12:12:49 <hearn> that’s pretty crazy
 812 2014-05-02 12:13:00 <hearn> yeah well chrome apps are designed on the assumption that heavy lifting is done on the server
 813 2014-05-02 12:13:13 <hearn> a trust store isn’t necessarily huge though
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 815 2014-05-02 12:13:38 <hearn> the one shipped with bitcoinj is 83k
 816 2014-05-02 12:13:45 <hearn> though it’s smaller than it should be. i want to switch to the mozilla trust store.
 817 2014-05-02 12:13:54 <jerseykx> hmm, doing it all in JS would give us some advantage of having common implementation between web, android (JS) app, and chrome app
 818 2014-05-02 12:13:54 <hearn> that’d be quite a bit larger. but still not infeasible if you cache it long term
 819 2014-05-02 12:13:54 <GAit> hearn:  for the web client version you could have the server stream the trust store, not more secure but less impl to worry about
 820 2014-05-02 12:14:05 <hearn> jerseykx: you wrote the android app in javascript?
 821 2014-05-02 12:14:13 <jerseykx> hearn: yeah, we use Cordova
 822 2014-05-02 12:14:27 <jerseykx> it's bascically the same JS as our web page
 823 2014-05-02 12:14:34 <GAit> but it has plugins to use bouncy castle
 824 2014-05-02 12:14:34 <hearn> why are you doing a web wallet at all? why not just use a regular downloadable app?
 825 2014-05-02 12:14:35 <jerseykx> we might change it to native app at some point in future
 826 2014-05-02 12:14:42 <hearn> both on android and on desktop
 827 2014-05-02 12:14:49 <GAit> we are working on that
 828 2014-05-02 12:14:58 <jerseykx> web page is meant to be simplest to use for any user, including iOS users
 829 2014-05-02 12:15:02 <GAit> it's just that the web thing was a convienient and relatively easy to pull off one
 830 2014-05-02 12:15:04 <jerseykx> not most secure though
 831 2014-05-02 12:16:04 <hearn> yeah the web isn’t a great fit for wallets imo
 832 2014-05-02 12:17:27 <hearn> jerseykx: on android your best bet is to call through to java from javascript and delegate to bitcoinj. it uses the android trust store automatically
 833 2014-05-02 12:17:30 <GAit> not for big amounts anyway but it is quite convienient for read only access
 834 2014-05-02 12:17:49 <hearn> jerseykx: i’m sure cordova lets you extend the shell app
 835 2014-05-02 12:18:21 <jerseykx> hearn: yeah, we do some plugins for faster crypto already (because the builtin WebView doesn't support web workers)
 836 2014-05-02 12:18:25 <GAit> hearn: we already extended it to use bouncy castle so yes, but it is a bit more work to move to bitcoinj
 837 2014-05-02 12:18:44 <hearn> ah, you can use the payment protocol support independent of the other parts
 838 2014-05-02 12:19:01 <jerseykx> hearn: just i was thinking it might be simplest to use the same code with chrome app and android app, at least until we move the android app to android native code
 839 2014-05-02 12:19:05 <hearn> using it to parse payment protocol messages doesn’t imply needing to use spv wallets or anything
 840 2014-05-02 12:19:24 <hearn> yes, i don’t know. depends how mature and fast the TLS-in-javascript stuff is i guess.
 841 2014-05-02 12:20:02 <GAit> true, it may be ok on desktop too and not on mobile
 842 2014-05-02 12:20:47 <jerseykx> hearn: ok, cool, thanks for your input :) i guess we'll test the TLS-in-JS first, and anyway use bitcoinj for our other java clients
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 851 2014-05-02 12:31:19 <hearn> sipa:  how comes CCoinsViewMemPool doesn’t check for spendings by mempool txns?
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 924 2014-05-02 13:40:09 <sipa> anyone have a testnet node running?
 925 2014-05-02 13:40:14 <sipa> i can't seem to find any ips
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 927 2014-05-02 13:41:02 <survic> 178.63.47.173 212.110.31.250
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 930 2014-05-02 13:42:43 <survic> sipa: that enough to get you going?
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 937 2014-05-02 13:51:10 <sipa> survic: thanks, already found some nodes myself in the mean time :)
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 947 2014-05-02 13:57:38 <hearn> hey gavinandresen
 948 2014-05-02 13:57:42 <hearn> how are the conferences going?
 949 2014-05-02 13:58:52 <gavinandresen> I'm home today. The Milken conference went well, I suppose-- not my scene, really (lots of very wealthy people and lots of people who manage very wealthy people's money.....)
 950 2014-05-02 13:59:30 <sipa> scary
 951 2014-05-02 14:00:17 <hearn> heh
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 953 2014-05-02 14:00:41 <sipa> i wish we could get rid of this whole "value" thing
 954 2014-05-02 14:00:45 <hearn> haha
 955 2014-05-02 14:00:49 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|:P
 956 2014-05-02 14:00:51 <hearn> yes it would be a lot less stressful for sure :)
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 964 2014-05-02 14:08:13 <GAit> gavinandresen: very nice and convenient! https://bitcoincore.org/~gavin/createpaymentrequest.php
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 967 2014-05-02 14:10:00 <gavinandresen> GAit: thanks!  someboday said there's a problem with my email certificate, though....
 968 2014-05-02 14:10:16 <gavinandresen> … I should add a link to the source code on that page, too...
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 970 2014-05-02 14:10:48 <GAit> is it on github?
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 972 2014-05-02 14:11:03 <hearn> yeah
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 975 2014-05-02 14:11:51 <mr_burdell> damn... testnet only...
 976 2014-05-02 14:11:58 <mr_burdell> https://github.com/wozz/electrum/tree/bip0070
 977 2014-05-02 14:12:07 <mr_burdell> I've only been able to test that on bitpay
 978 2014-05-02 14:12:09 <hearn> mr_burdell: for mainnet testing i use any merchant that accepts bitpay
 979 2014-05-02 14:12:22 <hearn> the testnet generator is fine for everything else
 980 2014-05-02 14:12:26 <mr_burdell> yeah, would be nice to test on multiple implementations though
 981 2014-05-02 14:12:35 <hearn> coinbase is close to launching theirs
 982 2014-05-02 14:12:42 <hearn> i am keeping in touch with the guy on their side that’s doing it
 983 2014-05-02 14:12:46 <mr_burdell> ok, I'll keep an eye out for that
 984 2014-05-02 14:12:51 <hearn> also bittonic.nl supports it, but they’re an exchange so not sure how easy it is to get one
 985 2014-05-02 14:13:08 <GAit> we are probably going to have both client and server impl (starting with client i think)
 986 2014-05-02 14:13:10 <mr_burdell> also, how to you recommend distributing the certs, or do you just use the built in java certs?
 987 2014-05-02 14:13:41 <mr_burdell> python doesn't have built in ca certs like java as far as I know
 988 2014-05-02 14:13:42 <hearn> i’m using a modified version of the default java trust store that’s bundled with the library. basically it’s java + startcom, which isn’t included for some reason. i want to use the mozilla store though
 989 2014-05-02 14:13:52 <hearn> i trust mozilla to do a good job more than i trust oracle, in this regard
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 991 2014-05-02 14:14:01 <hearn> there’s an open issue to do the conversion
 992 2014-05-02 14:14:02 <gavinandresen> wumpus: pull-tester should be fixed, it is working through the last couple dozen pulls. Bug was a regression test left a bitcoind running
 993 2014-05-02 14:14:17 <sipa> gavinandresen: great!
 994 2014-05-02 14:14:18 <hearn> mr_burdell: btw thanks for working on this. bip70 support in electrum would be great.
 995 2014-05-02 14:14:21 <mr_burdell> I put a link on how ppl could download the mozilla store and put it in the right place
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 998 2014-05-02 14:15:30 <hearn> mr_burdell: you can probably look in the standard directories at startup too
 999 2014-05-02 14:15:38 <hearn> mr_burdell: or just copy it inside electrum
1000 2014-05-02 14:15:42 shesek has joined
1001 2014-05-02 14:16:07 <hearn> mr_burdell: do you think thomas will bundle it by default? or will it remain an optional plugin
1002 2014-05-02 14:16:25 <mr_burdell> he said it would probably be better as an included feature
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1004 2014-05-02 14:16:44 <mr_burdell> which is why it's sitting there unmerged... it will take me a while to rebase as an included feature
1005 2014-05-02 14:17:44 <hearn> cool
1006 2014-05-02 14:18:17 <mr_burdell> also, it probably doesn't currently work with any of the multisig functions... so that will take some time too.  but as of now, for the simple case, it does work
1007 2014-05-02 14:18:31 <hearn> well, bip70 has nothing much to say about multisig.
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1009 2014-05-02 14:18:47 <hearn> (at the moment)
1010 2014-05-02 14:19:39 <hearn> you can of course put a CHECKMULTISIG into the output fields or a P2SH output
1011 2014-05-02 14:20:07 <mr_burdell> well, with a payment request though, if you had to do multisig I guess it wouldn't work very well, since you would have to pass the transaction around to multiple clients
1012 2014-05-02 14:20:22 <mr_burdell> and probably expire the request while you're signing it
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1014 2014-05-02 14:21:05 <shesek> mr_burdell, there are two parts to it... funding and spending. funding the multisig works like any other address with the payment protocol, its the spending part that's problematic
1015 2014-05-02 14:21:25 <shesek> not not really in the current scope of what the payment protocol aims for
1016 2014-05-02 14:21:34 <hearn> that’s independent of the payment protocol though. gathering the signatures needed to make the spend - there isn’t any kind of standard for how to do that at the moment
1017 2014-05-02 14:21:53 <mr_burdell> right, that's what I mean... if you have a multisig wallet
1018 2014-05-02 14:22:00 <hearn> it’s true that if you have an invoice that must be paid RIGHT NOW then if you have like 5 people who need to collaborate, that can be an issue
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1020 2014-05-02 14:22:19 <mr_burdell> maybe I'll disable it for multisig wallets
1021 2014-05-02 14:22:20 <hearn> but most multisig stuff a.t.m. is for risk analyzed wallets
1022 2014-05-02 14:22:22 <hearn> there’s it’s no problem
1023 2014-05-02 14:22:29 <hearn> the risk analysis service should be able to sign well within expiry periods
1024 2014-05-02 14:23:13 <shesek> I'm working on something that requires cooperation between different users
1025 2014-05-02 14:23:24 <gavinandresen> The payment protocol is a necessary, lower-level piece upon which "we" can build the "get all parties to sign" functionality.
1026 2014-05-02 14:23:49 <gavinandresen> It is necessary because everybody has to be sure of what, exactly, they are signing.
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1028 2014-05-02 14:24:30 <mr_burdell> the merchant could handle the transaction distribution, and you would just sign the part you can sign and send it back
1029 2014-05-02 14:24:31 <shesek> gavinandresen, how do you see that working? via the p2p network, or via some centralised payment server that coordinates it?
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1031 2014-05-02 14:25:13 <gavinandresen> For the multi-person wallet: I think email is the best communication mechanism.  Not everybody will be online at the same time.
1032 2014-05-02 14:25:26 <gavinandresen> Second best would be a central server that everybody agrees to use to coordinate through.
1033 2014-05-02 14:25:39 <shesek> gavinandresen, email and manual copy-paste of public keys (for initially creating the multisig) and partially signed transactions?
1034 2014-05-02 14:25:44 <hearn> no no. you’d use files
1035 2014-05-02 14:25:47 <shesek> that's kinda... messy
1036 2014-05-02 14:25:50 <hearn> drag/drop out of your wallet into the mail compose window
1037 2014-05-02 14:26:10 <gavinandresen> yes, what hearn said, no manual copy/paste, please.
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1040 2014-05-02 14:27:01 <shesek> you don't see a proper way of doing that via the p2p network?
1041 2014-05-02 14:27:19 <shesek> like having nodes keep copies of partially signed transactions in mempool or something?
1042 2014-05-02 14:27:20 <hearn> p2p nodes don’t care about your half signed t
1043 2014-05-02 14:27:21 <hearn> *tx
1044 2014-05-02 14:27:31 <gavinandresen> Actually hearn : what about wallets that connect to your email automatically?  Scares me a bit, but that WOULD be convenient....
1045 2014-05-02 14:27:32 <shesek> well... they don't now
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1050 2014-05-02 14:27:51 <shesek> I'm not sure its a good idea to make them to that though
1051 2014-05-02 14:27:51 <gavinandresen> e.g. see TripIt for a service that watches email and then Does Magic.
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1053 2014-05-02 14:28:07 <mr_burdell> in the case of electrum, the server could store partially signed transactions
1054 2014-05-02 14:28:17 <SomeoneWeird> gavinandresen, ;_;
1055 2014-05-02 14:28:21 <BlueMatt> wumpus: yea, I'll fix it soonish
1056 2014-05-02 14:28:25 <survic> remember there's not a single electrum server
1057 2014-05-02 14:28:31 <survic> it's randomly selected from a list
1058 2014-05-02 14:28:45 <mr_burdell> well, i always use my own server... but yeah
1059 2014-05-02 14:28:55 <mr_burdell> good point
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1061 2014-05-02 14:29:09 <hearn> gavinandresen: i think a coordination server is probably better than that. the email case should hopefully be rare ....
1062 2014-05-02 14:29:30 <hearn> gavinandresen: i think one of the next steps for a lot of what we want to do is develop a simple store-and-forward network.
1063 2014-05-02 14:29:31 <shesek> with Bitrated I went with storing the partially signed transaction on the server, encrypted with a pre-shared secret
1064 2014-05-02 14:29:40 <gavinandresen> hearn: a coordination server is certainly a lot easier to implement.
1065 2014-05-02 14:29:45 <mr_burdell> in the case of a merchant, the merchant could handle it... for p2p payments, files or qr codes makes sense
1066 2014-05-02 14:30:20 <hearn> e.g. i want to publish a BIP70 PaymentRequest, signed with my email cert, that has an extension to support ECDH payments (aka stealth addresses). now i can link to that on my business card or whatever and people can pay me in privacy. the server accepts the (encrypted) Payment message and i can download it later, like picking up mail via POP
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1069 2014-05-02 14:32:00 <hearn> all the server has to do is store a handful of bytes and serve them / delete them at the right time, more or less
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1071 2014-05-02 14:32:19 <hearn> a good one would integrate with google C2DM too so when a Payment is uploaded it can be sent directly down to my smartphone with no polling needed
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1097 2014-05-02 14:54:55 <netg_> people would love(!) such google integration
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1099 2014-05-02 14:55:29 <netg_> as much like the passport idea :)
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1104 2014-05-02 14:59:30 <gavinandresen> netg_: what people are you talking about?  The techie trolls who LOVE the convenience and ease of use of pgp?  Or actual "people" ?
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1114 2014-05-02 15:02:54 <netg_> if you ask the real active european bitcoin scene (people who where early are adopters, contributed and contribute alot)
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1117 2014-05-02 15:03:10 <netg_> you would get the answer, that we feel this is against satoshis values
1118 2014-05-02 15:03:16 <netg_> and the orginal ideas
1119 2014-05-02 15:03:26 <gavinandresen> netg_: you mean sipa and mike?
1120 2014-05-02 15:03:38 <netg_> i think this opionen is shared by 50 - 60%
1121 2014-05-02 15:04:11 * edcba missed a controversy
1122 2014-05-02 15:04:29 <wumpus> you can always choose not to use it
1123 2014-05-02 15:04:40 <netg_> no, but joerg platzer or andreas schildbach for e.g.
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1125 2014-05-02 15:05:40 * Luke-Jr wonders why satoshi's values matter. or what this has to do with development.
1126 2014-05-02 15:06:00 <wumpus> the freedom bitcoin offers also means you cannot prevent other people from doing things that you may not agree with
1127 2014-05-02 15:06:10 <gavinandresen> I'm not sure how routing messages through C2DM because it is what is pragmatic is any more against satoshi's values than … oh, I dunno, using DNS for bitcoin.org.  Or having a centralized bitcointalk forum
1128 2014-05-02 15:06:44 <gavinandresen> "Decentralize everything" is a very nice goal that I agree with, but things are the way they are, and wishing for ponies is not a good way to make progress
1129 2014-05-02 15:06:52 <netg_> it was always communicated that satoshis ideas/values/goals were Crypto-anarchism-based
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1131 2014-05-02 15:06:57 <netg_> derivided from that
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1133 2014-05-02 15:07:17 <wumpus> wishing for ponies is also not a good way to make ponies
1134 2014-05-02 15:07:47 <gavinandresen> okey dokey.  So go implement a nice decentralized alternative and then we'll talk.
1135 2014-05-02 15:07:51 <wumpus> 'if you can do better, build it'
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1137 2014-05-02 15:08:03 <gavinandresen> yes, please
1138 2014-05-02 15:08:10 <netg_> gavinandresen: you do good work and so on
1139 2014-05-02 15:08:13 <netg_> the thing is
1140 2014-05-02 15:08:19 <netg_> you have to chnage the communication now
1141 2014-05-02 15:08:24 <edcba> what do you want to build netg_ ?
1142 2014-05-02 15:08:28 <netg_> so there is no contradiction
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1145 2014-05-02 15:09:11 <Luke-Jr> unfortunately, most business models naturally push for centralisation; even when it comes to decentralising mining features, I've seen companies want to be "the only" one offering it, or "at least the first" :x
1146 2014-05-02 15:09:16 <netg_> i want bitcoin to follow these cypherphunk and crypto-anarchism values/ideas
1147 2014-05-02 15:09:24 <Luke-Jr> netg_: then do it
1148 2014-05-02 15:09:40 <t7> netg_: the bitcoin foundation?
1149 2014-05-02 15:09:49 <Luke-Jr> netg_: Bitcoin is not a philosophy or political movement. There is no "contradiction", just technology.
1150 2014-05-02 15:09:52 <tyrick> netg_: what values specifically?
1151 2014-05-02 15:10:24 <gavinandresen> yes, less talk, more code.  I respect the DarkWallet folks for actually kinda-sorta shipping something  (only kinda-sorta because poking a 'developer mode' button is going to limit the number of people who will bother using their product)
1152 2014-05-02 15:10:53 <wumpus> netg_: real cyberpunks write code :)
1153 2014-05-02 15:10:59 <wumpus> cypherpunks*
1154 2014-05-02 15:11:23 <tyrick> I personally wish Bitcoin followed steampunk values
1155 2014-05-02 15:11:30 <gavinandresen> Actually, that will be an interesting thing to watch:  will the DarkWallet people violate their principles so installation is easy for normal people?
1156 2014-05-02 15:11:58 <gavinandresen> I'm not sure they'll be able to get a one-click-get-DarkWallet without becoming an Official Organization of some kind in some legal jurisdication
1157 2014-05-02 15:11:59 <netg_> tyrick: its not  about specific values, its about the direction
1158 2014-05-02 15:12:20 <tyrick> What direction are you suggesting?
1159 2014-05-02 15:12:27 <netg_> but dont you have a bit of understanding?
1160 2014-05-02 15:12:37 <tyrick> Or rather, what direction is it currently headed?
1161 2014-05-02 15:12:40 <jaakkos> tyrick: sha256 on a steam engine!
1162 2014-05-02 15:12:40 <Luke-Jr> netg_: there is no direction other than what *actual contributors* *actually contribute*
1163 2014-05-02 15:12:45 <netg_> it was from the beginning communicated this way
1164 2014-05-02 15:12:53 <wumpus> Luke-Jr: +1 you worded it better than I could 
1165 2014-05-02 15:12:57 <netg_> most users 2009 had cypherpunks background
1166 2014-05-02 15:13:12 <gavinandresen> Direction AND velocity are both important, in my humble opinion.  If it will take you 100 years to get to where you want to be by going in exactly the right direction....
1167 2014-05-02 15:13:16 <tyrick> jaakkos: I know! Imagine it.. No worries of net hackers
1168 2014-05-02 15:13:26 <sipa> is there a specific objection in technology we're discussion?
1169 2014-05-02 15:13:29 <gavinandresen> … maybe you should think about building your road AROUND that mountain instead of using a spoon to dig a tunnel through it
1170 2014-05-02 15:13:30 <tyrick> generate keys the safest way, mechanically!
1171 2014-05-02 15:13:33 <sipa> no politics here, please
1172 2014-05-02 15:14:25 <netg_> maybe just involve adam back more
1173 2014-05-02 15:14:36 <gavinandresen> sipa: this arose out of a discussion of whether to use the p2p network to arrange gathering signatures for multi-signature payments
1174 2014-05-02 15:14:42 <tyrick> netg_: So you are unhappy that bitcoin has basically become mainstream?
1175 2014-05-02 15:14:53 <netg_> he is trusted by people from this background
1176 2014-05-02 15:14:56 <tyrick> netg_: And that there are users now who are not cypherpunks?
1177 2014-05-02 15:15:04 <netg_> if adam back is ok with the stuff you are doing
1178 2014-05-02 15:15:21 <netg_> its ok for me (because he is the expert/has most of this background)
1179 2014-05-02 15:15:33 <hearn> netg_: can you show me one thing satoshi said that was crypto-anarchist?
1180 2014-05-02 15:15:38 <sipa> netg_: you don't want centralization, but trustijg the opinion of a single man is ok?
1181 2014-05-02 15:15:45 <wumpus> please move this to #bitcoin
1182 2014-05-02 15:15:46 <hearn> this is such a common myth
1183 2014-05-02 15:15:50 <sipa> please, take the politics elsewhere
1184 2014-05-02 15:16:00 <netg_> didnt wanted to start discussion
1185 2014-05-02 15:16:06 <Luke-Jr> netg_: and if he isn't, then you want people arrested or what? your topic isn't dev-related..
1186 2014-05-02 15:16:12 <gavinandresen> yeah, I was the troll in this one.  Apologies.
1187 2014-05-02 15:16:21 <tyrick> join me at #steampunk-bitcoin please
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1194 2014-05-02 15:18:54 <netg_> hearn: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Bitcoin
1195 2014-05-02 15:18:57 <netg_> first paragraph
1196 2014-05-02 15:19:13 <netg_> e.g. and there is more, i dont make up this stuff to annoy you
1197 2014-05-02 15:19:36 <netg_> and obvious satoshis work is based on adam back and wei sai who both where cypherphunks and back also cryptoanarchis
1198 2014-05-02 15:19:51 <netg_> its ok now, enough of this stuff
1199 2014-05-02 15:20:30 <hearn> i have a spooky feeling i talked directly with satoshi a lot more than you did, but yes, let’s end it there
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1203 2014-05-02 15:21:39 <netg_> (first bitcoin announcement by satoshi was at cypherpunks mailinglist)
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1205 2014-05-02 15:21:58 <netg_> one big thing for me and others is, if you see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cypherpunk#Noteworthy_cypherpunks
1206 2014-05-02 15:22:18 <netg_> so many respected people, who developed good stuff are cypherpunks
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1208 2014-05-02 15:22:56 <netg_> so cypherpunk Main principles are very good , worth to follow
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1210 2014-05-02 15:23:54 <netg_> if satoshis background would have been in video games or hard rock musik
1211 2014-05-02 15:23:59 <netg_> no one would ask for this :)
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1214 2014-05-02 15:27:53 <sipa> i don't see how thosenare violated... bitcoin at the core protocol allows people being fully in charge of their own money, and changing that requires modifying every node in the network
1215 2014-05-02 15:28:40 <sipa> layers on top onevitably will compromise decentralization for convenience... that can't be prevented, as everyone is building those and they should be
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1225 2014-05-02 15:33:39 <hearn> netg_: factual correction - the announcement was on the *cryptography* list. that’s a different list from the (defunct) cypherpunks list
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1227 2014-05-02 15:35:07 <netg_> ok, sorry
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1240 2014-05-02 15:44:44 <tyrick> Can anyone give me an overview on that happens with reading in blk files on startup
1241 2014-05-02 15:44:51 <tyrick> I guess we can assume a reindex
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1243 2014-05-02 15:45:22 <tyrick> In ThreadImport, OpenBlockFile is called looking for blk00000.dat
1244 2014-05-02 15:45:35 <Luke-Jr> tyrick: that's what debug.log is for
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1246 2014-05-02 15:45:51 <tyrick> If found, LoadExternalBlockFile is called with the file
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1249 2014-05-02 15:46:39 <tyrick> CBufferedFile is created, then things start to get a little crazy for me
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1255 2014-05-02 15:47:55 <tyrick> I'm looking for more of an abstract
1256 2014-05-02 15:48:22 <tyrick> The thought process of what is happening before I start seeing how the code accomplishes it
1257 2014-05-02 15:48:54 <tyrick> Because things start to get pretty dense around this area
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1261 2014-05-02 15:53:17 <wumpus> tyrick: blocks are read from the file and interpreted as if they came from the network
1262 2014-05-02 15:53:27 <wumpus> tyrick: conceptually it's trivial
1263 2014-05-02 15:53:35 <tyrick> >.>
1264 2014-05-02 15:53:58 <tyrick> Not really.
1265 2014-05-02 15:54:09 <tyrick> The file is a serialized stream of the block objects
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1267 2014-05-02 15:54:27 <wumpus> right, which is the same as the network representation
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1269 2014-05-02 15:54:47 <tyrick> So the process of reading these blocks from the file is what I am asking about
1270 2014-05-02 15:56:37 <tyrick> How the block headers are located within the stream and so on
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1272 2014-05-02 15:57:45 <wumpus> the block header is at the beginning of each block
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1274 2014-05-02 15:58:27 <tyrick> >.> How block headers are located within the stream; not relative to each block
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1276 2014-05-02 15:58:39 <tyrick> I am basically asking about the protocol for parsing these files
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1279 2014-05-02 15:59:35 <wumpus> it's documented here: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Blocks
1280 2014-05-02 16:01:16 <tyrick> Yes, that is the protocol for blocks
1281 2014-05-02 16:01:36 <tyrick> that gives no insight into the actual parsing of the serialized stream
1282 2014-05-02 16:01:40 <wumpus> there's also http://bitcoindev.us.to/en/developer-guide#block-contents
1283 2014-05-02 16:01:46 <tyrick> wumpus: don't stress it
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1285 2014-05-02 16:02:01 <wumpus> don't stress what?
1286 2014-05-02 16:02:14 <tyrick> trying to help
1287 2014-05-02 16:02:19 <tyrick> I'll get it
1288 2014-05-02 16:02:23 <archrs> nice link
1289 2014-05-02 16:02:26 <tyrick> was just wanting a little extra
1290 2014-05-02 16:02:27 <archrs> ty
1291 2014-05-02 16:02:29 <wumpus> ok, I'll shut up
1292 2014-05-02 16:02:35 <tyrick> ;)
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1294 2014-05-02 16:03:00 <wumpus> tyrick: it's usually better to ask specific questions
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1298 2014-05-02 16:03:55 <tyrick> Sure, main.cpp line 3097 to 3137; wth is going on
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1304 2014-05-02 16:09:53 <wumpus> archrs: this series of articles is also pretty horough in describing the block format and protocol: http://coinlogic.wordpress.com/2014/02/18/the-protocol-1-block/
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1313 2014-05-02 16:13:02 <tyrick> wumpus: that is actually very useful
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1431 2014-05-02 17:32:28 <dgenr8_> paging sipa:
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1433 2014-05-02 17:33:44 <dgenr8_> sipa: are you willing to send a copy of the mailing list mbox archive?  its hard using the sourceforge archive
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1462 2014-05-02 17:48:58 <btcquant> Hi - is it possible to use the JSON-RPC functionality of bitcoind to create a new wallet?
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1473 2014-05-02 17:56:28 <wumpus> btcquant: no
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1475 2014-05-02 17:56:53 <btcquant> wumpus  thanks
1476 2014-05-02 17:56:56 <btcquant> was afraid of that.
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1481 2014-05-02 18:03:10 <archrs> ty wumpus
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1547 2014-05-02 18:34:59 <amiller-> are there any different default parameters between unix and windows versions?
1548 2014-05-02 18:35:01 <amiller-> i'm pretty sure they're not.
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1551 2014-05-02 18:35:25 <wumpus> amiller-: I don't think so
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1553 2014-05-02 18:37:00 <wumpus> AFAIK the only difference in options parsing is that -daemon doesn't exist on windows
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1557 2014-05-02 18:38:13 <gmaxwell> There are some gui vs daemon default differences, e.g. upnp behavior.
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1560 2014-05-02 18:39:42 <wumpus> yes, there are certainly differences between the gui and daemon
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1565 2014-05-02 18:44:20 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: not sure upnp behaviour is different since autotools
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1568 2014-05-02 18:48:53 <dexX7> i get a "too many open files" error from time to time. is there anything i can do?
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1570 2014-05-02 18:49:33 <gmaxwell> dexX7: From bitcoin? qt? bitcoind? what version? what OS? what non-default settings?
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1572 2014-05-02 18:50:06 <dexX7> bitcoind v0.9~ address indexed, i do a lot of block/tx related rpc calls
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1575 2014-05-02 18:50:57 <gmaxwell> Okay, you've not answered all of my questions.
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1577 2014-05-02 18:51:37 <dexX7> sorry. ubuntu x64 13.10
1578 2014-05-02 18:51:40 <wumpus> Luke-Jr: that was determined by the build system?!
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1581 2014-05-02 18:51:54 <Luke-Jr> wumpus: of course
1582 2014-05-02 18:51:55 <dexX7> no specific non-default settings
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1585 2014-05-02 18:52:27 <gmaxwell> dexX7: You are not changing your max connections?
1586 2014-05-02 18:53:19 <gmaxwell> Are you connecting to a proxy? do you have any addnodes set?
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1589 2014-05-02 18:53:54 <dexX7> i can't really follow. i connect to the vps via ssh and run it there
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1592 2014-05-02 18:54:19 <dexX7> it seems as it cloggs at some point
1593 2014-05-02 18:54:27 <dexX7> a restart helps
1594 2014-05-02 18:54:42 <wumpus> Luke-Jr: if that was the case; there is no difference in the compiler options/definitions used to compile the core compiltion units between bitcoind and bitcoin-qt, so I suppose there is no difference between them anymore
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1596 2014-05-02 18:55:45 <Luke-Jr> wumpus: I think considering recent node shortages, it's reasonable to enable UPnP by default by default on bitcoind also
1597 2014-05-02 18:56:07 <wumpus> Luke-Jr: to get the behavior back we could add a SetSoftBoolArg("-upnp","false") to src/bitcoind.cpp
1598 2014-05-02 18:56:10 <wumpus> Luke-Jr: ok, makes sense
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1600 2014-05-02 18:56:32 <Luke-Jr> wumpus: the desired behaviour is that the user can change the default via configure ;)
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1602 2014-05-02 18:57:02 <wumpus> Luke-Jr: they can
1603 2014-05-02 18:57:12 <Luke-Jr> not if you use SetSoftBoolArg
1604 2014-05-02 18:57:50 <gmaxwell> dexX7: Can you send me your bitcoin.conf (with the rpcuser/rpcpassword removed).
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1606 2014-05-02 18:58:18 <wumpus> Luke-Jr: I do think setting the default setting of an argument using a configure argument is a bit strange
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1608 2014-05-02 18:58:30 <gmaxwell> dexX7: also what version of bitcoin? you told me you're running the addrindex patch but patched on top of what?
1609 2014-05-02 18:58:42 <dexX7> http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=SNP03PQv
1610 2014-05-02 18:58:49 <wumpus> dexX7: could it be this issue? https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/3968
1611 2014-05-02 18:59:04 <wumpus> (ie, do you see sockets stuck in CLOSE_WAIT state?)
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1613 2014-05-02 18:59:10 <dexX7> https://github.com/dexX7/bitcoin/compare/bitcoin:master...addrindex
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1615 2014-05-02 19:00:06 <gmaxwell> I need to know where your code branched off master, not just what additional is in it.
1616 2014-05-02 19:00:19 <gmaxwell> I'm trying to determine if your issue could be the file descriptor leaks I recently fixed.
1617 2014-05-02 19:00:33 <wumpus> although he doesn't mention getting an error about file descriptors, just about filling up all the RPC connection slots
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1619 2014-05-02 19:01:25 <gmaxwell> (Though I'd be surprised, since the leaks are slow and only in certian cases... and you should have a LOT of free file descriptors.)
1620 2014-05-02 19:02:02 <dexX7> i see only two entries for sudo lsof -p 808 | grep 8332, both which show a listen status -- somewhere between 0.9 and 0.9.1
1621 2014-05-02 19:02:14 <dexX7> Apr 01, 2014
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1628 2014-05-02 19:04:07 <gmaxwell> dexX7: Okay, thats what I wanted to know (in the future, providing a commit ID on master before your patches is usually best). I fixed a couple FD leaks that might impact you. Addr index is likely using more FDs that aren't correctly being accounted for, but you should have plenty of spare ones so long as you aren't adjusting maxconnections.  Could you try rebasing yourself on current git and seeing if the issue continues?
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1631 2014-05-02 19:04:45 <dexX7> thanks, i'm going to try this
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1652 2014-05-02 19:26:22 * Luke-Jr pokes lechuga_
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1691 2014-05-02 19:54:51 <jgarzik> Update: SHA384/SHA512 PA-RISC assembler code is apparently broken. I probably should back off slowly until I can reach for safety. #LibreSSL  https://twitter.com/MiodVallat/status/462315014301687809  </shittwittersays>
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1699 2014-05-02 20:01:27 <GAit> gmaxwell: i was reading on reddit a few more developers are interested in including stealth addresses support and are even asking if there will be an upgrade to the 'bitcoin:' uri. Is it worth reopening the discussion/spec to making sure we all agree on something that is reviewed and works?
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1813 2014-05-02 21:38:54 <dcousens_> hey all :), just a curious question, why does uint256.GetHex() reverse byte order?
1814 2014-05-02 21:39:44 <sipa> because uint256 internally stores the uints in le order
1815 2014-05-02 21:39:53 <sipa> and humans expect printed numbers in be
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1818 2014-05-02 21:41:37 <SoftwareMechanic> Then you ask yourself why x86 is little endian.
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1820 2014-05-02 21:41:57 <SoftwareMechanic> It's a slippery slope after that.  Just be happy and accept it :)
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1824 2014-05-02 21:43:35 <dcousens_> sipa: isn't the convention of SHA256 Big-endian though?
1825 2014-05-02 21:43:55 <sipa> dcousens_: relevance?
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1827 2014-05-02 21:44:12 <sipa> a uint256 is a 256 bit number
1828 2014-05-02 21:44:21 <sipa> if you print it, you print it as a number
1829 2014-05-02 21:44:26 <dcousens_> sipa: well, we copy the output of sha256 into uint256, and suddenly consider uint256 as a little-endian number
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1831 2014-05-02 21:44:42 <dcousens_> why would you need to print it as big-endian, if really, theres no important at all?
1832 2014-05-02 21:44:42 <sipa> sha256 produces a 32-byte array
1833 2014-05-02 21:44:51 <dcousens_> importance*
1834 2014-05-02 21:45:05 <sipa> that it internally uses big endian to obtain that is an implementation detail
1835 2014-05-02 21:45:13 <dcousens_> or was it more just to keep the uint256 abstraction generalized?
1836 2014-05-02 21:45:18 <sipa> bitcoin's endianness choices are certainly weird
1837 2014-05-02 21:45:48 <sipa> but they're not unreasonable: bitcoin always uses little endian, and considers the output of crypto code to be byte arrays
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1839 2014-05-02 21:46:19 <sipa> for example, ripemd160 uses little endian internally
1840 2014-05-02 21:46:22 <dcousens_> sipa: right, just seems odd that we considered something like a txHash as a number
1841 2014-05-02 21:46:25 <sipa> but that isn't relevant either
1842 2014-05-02 21:46:50 <sipa> dcousens_: agree there, there is no need for interpreting it as a number
1843 2014-05-02 21:47:09 <sipa> but i guess satoshi liked the uint256 he already had, and reused it :)
1844 2014-05-02 21:47:27 <dcousens_> haha, my thoughts entirely, just wanted to confirm that there wasn't some alternative reason
1845 2014-05-02 21:47:46 <sipa> for blkhash there is a good reason for interpreting it as a number though
1846 2014-05-02 21:47:54 <sipa> as it is compared to the target value
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1848 2014-05-02 21:49:01 <dcousens_> true, but in that case there is never a requirement to revert the endian-ness, I imagine the comparison is done against the uint256 directly
1849 2014-05-02 21:49:30 <dcousens_> (may be wrong, not sure)
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1851 2014-05-02 21:50:32 <sipa> you are right
1852 2014-05-02 21:51:02 <sipa> but still, as that value is a number (and not a byte array or uint32 array), if you print it for human consumption, you need to swap it
1853 2014-05-02 21:51:10 <sipa> as human numbers are big endian :)
1854 2014-05-02 21:51:40 <sipa> the only real endianness conversion is inside sha256
1855 2014-05-02 21:52:07 <dcousens_> sipa: agreed, but that would be handled by the print function, and is an obvious case.  The txhash hex being treated as a number and as such being Big endian, is, well, odd :P. Alas. Haha
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1857 2014-05-02 21:53:10 <sipa> yeah, it only makes sense if you understand that it is internally considered as a number, without good reason
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1859 2014-05-02 21:53:50 <dcousens_> sipa: haha, sounds like a mathematical distinction,  "hex is base16, which is just another way of writing numbers, therefore, it should follow natural language conventions"
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1863 2014-05-02 21:54:33 <dcousens_> instead of the usage in this (and probably common case?), binary human readable interchange format...
1864 2014-05-02 21:55:06 <dcousens_> s/binary/byte/
1865 2014-05-02 21:55:27 <dcousens_> or data, whatever. Anyway, cheers :)
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1867 2014-05-02 21:56:20 <dgenr8> sipa: any chance you could email me the mbox from https://lists.sourceforge.net/mbox/bitcoin-development ? My email addr is on github
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1869 2014-05-02 21:56:51 <sipa> dgenr8: yeah, if our largest problems with bitcoin's data structure convention are endianness, i think we shouldn't complain :)
1870 2014-05-02 21:57:14 <sipa> dgenr8: no idea what my password is there
1871 2014-05-02 21:57:34 <dgenr8> sipa: ok ill ask others.  and sorry, those aren't the largest issues ;)
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1874 2014-05-02 22:03:10 <dgenr8> jgarzik: re your post on uBTC / bits, thank you for leading the way (and being right)
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1878 2014-05-02 22:04:41 <sipa> dgenr8: ugh, that was meant for dcousens_ of course
1879 2014-05-02 22:04:54 <sipa> though everyone seems to have an opinion on bitcoin's endianness :p
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1882 2014-05-02 22:07:06 <sipa> jgarzik: how compatible is endian.h with bsd/mingw/windows/osx/...?
1883 2014-05-02 22:07:19 <dgenr8> jgarzik: PS, do you happen to remember your sourceforge password (see above) ..... hee
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1886 2014-05-02 22:08:12 <sipa> jgarzik: i expect we'll end up having some #if [test to see if we have modern gcc] define ReadBE32(..) ... using __builtin_bswap32 ... #else current implementation #endif
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1892 2014-05-02 22:10:54 <gmaxwell> sipa: e.g. a bog standard GNUC prereq macro: https://git.xiph.org/?p=opus.git;a=blob;f=include/opus_defines.h;h=84df7c7a18984eeed59560326f8adafb5d96517d;hb=HEAD#l80
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1895 2014-05-02 22:13:16 <sipa> gmaxwell: how compatible is that with clang?
1896 2014-05-02 22:13:32 <gmaxwell> 100%
1897 2014-05-02 22:13:39 <gmaxwell> And intel's compiler, etc.
1898 2014-05-02 22:13:49 <gmaxwell> Basically it signals support for the GNU extensions.
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1939 2014-05-02 23:03:56 <maaku> GAit: there is no consensus on how stealth addresses should be implmented
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