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  31 2014-05-03 00:29:43 <GAit> maaku: thanks, that was my worry
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  66 2014-05-03 01:08:11 <jgarzik> sipa, RE mingw & bswap...  thus my comment
  67 2014-05-03 01:08:20 <jgarzik> sipa, it is a Good Idea, but portability is a bitch
  68 2014-05-03 01:08:56 <jgarzik> sipa, don't plunge too far down the rathole -- initial commit with dumb naive provable version which is later fixed up is just as good
  69 2014-05-03 01:09:11 <jgarzik> We can use "boring" version unless endian.h is present, etc.
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  78 2014-05-03 01:16:47 <akstunt600> Hey all developing a new coin here and having issues getting the merkel root to show in the debug log
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 259 2014-05-03 04:33:46 <fsk141> can anyone help me remember the name of that app that helps you search the blockchain
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 273 2014-05-03 04:39:07 <maaku> GAit: if you look at the mailing list there were 3-4 different schemes suggested for implementing stealth addresses, with various tradeoffs to each
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 294 2014-05-03 05:06:56 <playball> I need someone to kick the tires on a project I am working on.  This involves reviewing code and architecture as well as security decisions.  Cryptography knowledge is required, and I need about 40 hours and/or possible travel.  I pay very well (this is an opportunity to make some extra cash to take that  vacation you deserve), so if you have any interest message me :)
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 654 2014-05-03 11:36:21 <random_cat_> what is all the bikeshedding over decimal point placement/unit name about?  folks are generally aware of their immediate wealth.  people seem to continue to function in hyperinflations.  who is confused twice about ounces of gold?  or grams for that matter?  i am all for standardization, but this seems a prime candidate for allowing the market to sort out the winners and losers
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 657 2014-05-03 11:38:39 <survic> random_cat_: it's literally bikeshedding. it's an insignificant issue that people can relate to and feel as if they're making a difference. it seems to come up fairly regularly, people wanting to assign names or do a "stock split" or all manner of stupid things.
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 665 2014-05-03 11:47:08 <GAit> survic: it's no big difference to us maybe but i can see how it makes a huge difference in marketing and people mentality. is it easier to educate people or to to change a few lines of code in N different products?
 666 2014-05-03 11:47:54 <random_cat_> what difference?
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 669 2014-05-03 11:51:25 <random_cat_> in the iron recycling business (for example) it is commonplace in the US to accept material in pounds but get paid in tons; knowing your bid/ask (without regard to anyone's favored units) is key to trade
 670 2014-05-03 11:51:36 <sl01> I dunno about it being bikeshedding, it's probably dogecoin shills attempting to derail Bitcoin from removing dogecoin's only advantage over it :P
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 672 2014-05-03 11:52:32 <survic> random_cat_: the United States is fairly unique in refusing to use SI unit.
 673 2014-05-03 11:53:22 <random_cat_> survic: i object to any qualifiers to the word "unique"
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 687 2014-05-03 12:09:20 <skinnkavaj> Where do I get testnet coins?
 688 2014-05-03 12:10:01 <SomeoneWeird> from the testnet
 689 2014-05-03 12:10:02 <SomeoneWeird> c_C
 690 2014-05-03 12:10:19 <SomeoneWeird> http://faucet.xeno-genesis.com/
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 707 2014-05-03 12:26:40 <wumpus> random_cat_: it's a favourite topic for some people in the community, but doesn't really have a place in development, people can use whatever units they want let the community sort it out
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 843 2014-05-03 15:46:31 <playball> I need a bitcoin developer to kick the wheels on hardware I am building. This includes code, architecture, and code review.  To start I need 1-2 full days, which might include travel to our location. Cryptography experience is a must. I can pay up to $500 an hour depending on skill and knowledge.  I can also pay up front and in btc.
 844 2014-05-03 15:47:48 <sipa> playball: not here
 845 2014-05-03 15:48:06 <playball> sipa: what do you mean?
 846 2014-05-03 15:48:20 <shesek> playball, not in this channel
 847 2014-05-03 15:48:29 <playball> oh,ok... sorry
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 865 2014-05-03 16:16:08 <pointychimp> I'm trying to get information about individual (non-wallet) transactions from bitcoind. I have put "txindex=1" in the conf file. I added the "-reindex" flag last time I started bitcoind and watched it run through the blockchain again. However, I still cannot run "bitcoind gettransaction <txid>" successfully. Please advise on what blatant mistake I'm probably making.
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 881 2014-05-03 16:27:52 <sipa> pointychimp: gettrabsaction queries the *wallet* for a ledger entry
 882 2014-05-03 16:28:16 <sipa> pointychimp: if you want just to query a raw butcoin transaction in the blockchain, you need to use getrawtransaction
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 885 2014-05-03 16:28:49 <sipa> *bitcoin
 886 2014-05-03 16:29:45 <pointychimp> sipa: I would like to get information such as inputs/outputs for arbitrary txs. I see that getrawtransaction actually returns something--a long hex string--but is there a way for me to get useful info out of that locally with bitcoind?
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 889 2014-05-03 16:32:07 <pointychimp> I figured it out I think. Add a one to the end it looks like
 890 2014-05-03 16:32:40 spinza has joined
 891 2014-05-03 16:32:50 <pointychimp> for archival purposes: do more googling with the right terms, people. http://stackoverflow.com/questions/8734694/see-foreign-bitcoin-transactions
 892 2014-05-03 16:33:56 <pointychimp> thanks
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 918 2014-05-03 17:12:44 <MaxSan> thinking about zero confirmation transactions
 919 2014-05-03 17:13:06 <MaxSan> a well connected node which propagates a transaction helps well
 920 2014-05-03 17:13:58 <MaxSan> can nodes currently not relay transactions transactions if there is a matching transaction from an outgoing address which has not yet been confirmed
 921 2014-05-03 17:14:35 <MaxSan> it may not be a full proof, but surely it would greatly reduce the feasability sending out a second transaction
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 928 2014-05-03 17:16:17 <survic> MaxSan: the network doesn't relay double spends at present. it also doesn't really care about addresses, and keeps no record of them.
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 930 2014-05-03 17:16:51 <survic> you can't ever securely accept zero confirmation transactions, being "well connected" doesn't change that fact.
 931 2014-05-03 17:17:17 <MaxSan> how can it know if its a double spend if it doesnt check which unconfirmed transactions are available?
 932 2014-05-03 17:18:18 <survic> transactions are only relayed if they are valid. currently tranactions which attempt to spend already spent outputs are invalid.
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 956 2014-05-03 18:01:28 <gpmnlxdw> hi guys, my website is running, but still get a problem
 957 2014-05-03 18:01:50 <gpmnlxdw> I send a transaction , it is reject with code -22;
 958 2014-05-03 18:02:10 <survic> gpmnlxdw: this is a question for #bitcoin rather than here.
 959 2014-05-03 18:02:10 <gpmnlxdw> but right after not more than 10seconds, I send it again ,it is OK
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 961 2014-05-03 18:02:50 <gpmnlxdw> ok, I will ask for help at there
 962 2014-05-03 18:02:52 <gpmnlxdw> thank you
 963 2014-05-03 18:02:54 <survic> gpmnlxdw: er maybe it is one for here, I jumped on that one too quickly.
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 965 2014-05-03 18:03:08 <gpmnlxdw> >_<
 966 2014-05-03 18:03:09 <sipa> gpmnlxdw: which bitcoin version?
 967 2014-05-03 18:03:25 <gpmnlxdw> v0.9.0.0-g15ec451-beta
 968 2014-05-03 18:03:32 <gpmnlxdw> I compiled it from source
 969 2014-05-03 18:03:44 <sipa> and it doesn't report what the problem is with the transaction?
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 971 2014-05-03 18:03:58 <gpmnlxdw> and always with -22 in windows bitcoin-qt v0.8.3
 972 2014-05-03 18:04:25 <sipa> yes -22, but which message?
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 974 2014-05-03 18:05:24 <gpmnlxdw> TX rejected (code -22)
 975 2014-05-03 18:05:31 <sipa> in 0.9 i mean
 976 2014-05-03 18:05:47 <gpmnlxdw> that's the transaction : c0a5aed196317bed7b5e7a0cb94d62d6a055bd4b06bec313928f9e55e5294a28
 977 2014-05-03 18:06:21 <gpmnlxdw> all of the error message are : TX rejected (code -22)
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 981 2014-05-03 18:11:27 <gpmnlxdw> oooh, more than ten seconds, but with one minute; 01:56:40 failed, but I execute the same command at 01:57:23, then it is OK;
 982 2014-05-03 18:11:42 <gpmnlxdw> and no obviously error message shown at that moment
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 984 2014-05-03 18:12:29 <gpmnlxdw> is it because my client not get the transaction yet?
 985 2014-05-03 18:12:43 <gpmnlxdw> sync data with network?
 986 2014-05-03 18:15:10 <gpmnlxdw> I must sleep, I'm from another side of the earth, wish you can find something useful....
 987 2014-05-03 18:15:50 <gpmnlxdw> I'm afraid of this error, I will crazy once my website is used by the newbies .....
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1028 2014-05-03 19:26:12 <tyrick> which thread listens for new blocks on the network?
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1031 2014-05-03 19:28:24 <sipa> the socket handler thread will receive messages from peers, and parse them into receive buffers
1032 2014-05-03 19:28:39 <sipa> the message handler thread will call ProcessMessages on it, which eventually processes them
1033 2014-05-03 19:28:59 <tyrick> sipa, thanks
1034 2014-05-03 19:29:08 <tyrick> I really appreciate your answers
1035 2014-05-03 19:29:14 <sipa> yw
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1041 2014-05-03 19:37:46 <Luke-Jr> maaku: your implementation woudl allow 41 sigops
1042 2014-05-03 19:38:03 <Luke-Jr> actually 820 really
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1047 2014-05-03 19:39:14 <sipa> they would never execute though
1048 2014-05-03 19:39:19 <sipa> so be pretty silly :)
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1050 2014-05-03 19:46:40 <Luke-Jr> sipa: they'd still be counted toward the miner's limits
1051 2014-05-03 19:47:14 <Luke-Jr> so kinda a DoS
1052 2014-05-03 19:47:33 <sipa> i expect that miners would just charge heavy fees for it
1053 2014-05-03 19:47:52 <sipa> if they implement sigop-aware prioritization
1054 2014-05-03 19:47:55 <Luke-Jr> if
1055 2014-05-03 19:48:05 <sipa> it's easy to implement :)
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1085 2014-05-03 20:16:42 <dexX7> ;;later tell gmaxwell "hey, i did not face the problem of too many open files anymore. will report back, if i do, but right now it looks like something between 0.9.0ish and now did the trick. thanks a lot! :)"
1086 2014-05-03 20:16:42 <gribble> The operation succeeded.
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1090 2014-05-03 20:21:06 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|maaku: the suggestion wasn't to allow multiple OP_RETURN outputs
1091 2014-05-03 20:21:14 daybyter has joined
1092 2014-05-03 20:21:36 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|It was to allow the script to be made up of multiple data pushes
1093 2014-05-03 20:22:03 mappum_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1094 2014-05-03 20:22:32 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|The transaction given had two pubkeyhash outputs, and one output that was "OP_RETURN <5 bytes> <2 bytes>"
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1110 2014-05-03 20:55:07 <melvster> someone was asking me today about peter todd's tree chain idea, does anyone have a pointer to a write up of this concept?
1111 2014-05-03 20:56:01 Lexa has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
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1115 2014-05-03 21:02:21 <melvster> ah this must be it
1116 2014-05-03 21:02:23 <melvster> https://github.com/petertodd/tree-chains-paper
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1134 2014-05-03 21:25:48 <gmaxwell> FWIW, dexX7 reported to me that updating to the latest git fixed his FD exhaustion.
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1138 2014-05-03 21:27:54 <sipa> cool
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1152 2014-05-03 21:50:49 <gmaxwell> wumpus: sorry about the misclick on 4102 (I accidentally closed it, I instantly reopened it... I started to ask a question then went and read the code and realized the question was stupid and clicked the wrong button to cancel)
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1167 2014-05-03 22:05:31 <dexX7> gmaxwell: correction, it appeared again
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1170 2014-05-03 22:07:26 <jcorgan> dexX7: what problem are you having?
1171 2014-05-03 22:08:12 pierreatwork has joined
1172 2014-05-03 22:08:20 <dexX7> LevelDB read failure: IO error: ... Too many open files,
1173 2014-05-03 22:08:49 ericmuyser has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1174 2014-05-03 22:08:58 <jcorgan> ah, misunderstood an earlier comment, nm
1175 2014-05-03 22:09:16 ndak has quit ()
1176 2014-05-03 22:10:58 <gmaxwell> jcorgan: while running the addrindex patch.
1177 2014-05-03 22:11:58 <jcorgan> hmm
1178 2014-05-03 22:12:04 <dexX7> it looks like this originates from ReadTransaction
1179 2014-05-03 22:12:26 <dexX7> https://github.com/dexX7/bitcoin/blob/0f8537e1b246c72e52812a82507568400030cf2f/src/main.cpp#L1014
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1185 2014-05-03 22:32:06 <PRab> Is http://mikegerwitz.com/papers/git-horror-story relevant to Bitcoin? I know tags are signed, but I don't think commits are.
1186 2014-05-03 22:32:28 <sipa> commits can be signed
1187 2014-05-03 22:32:46 <PRab> They can be, but is that enforced right now?
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1189 2014-05-03 22:34:49 <sipa> "enforced" ?
1190 2014-05-03 22:35:26 <PRab> Have a rule in place that all commits must be signed before they are merged.
1191 2014-05-03 22:35:33 <sipa> oh, no
1192 2014-05-03 22:35:41 <sipa> but usually our merge commits are signed
1193 2014-05-03 22:35:56 <PRab> Oh, I didn't realize that.
1194 2014-05-03 22:36:10 <sipa> the meaning a commit signature for us is agreement with the change the commit itself brings
1195 2014-05-03 22:36:20 <sipa> not agreement necessarily with its entire history
1196 2014-05-03 22:36:41 <sipa> we have a script that does github merges loca
1197 2014-05-03 22:36:43 <sipa> lly
1198 2014-05-03 22:36:49 <sipa> displays the change to verify
1199 2014-05-03 22:36:55 <sipa> amd the offers to gpg sign it
1200 2014-05-03 22:36:59 <sipa> before pushing to github
1201 2014-05-03 22:37:14 <PRab> Yeah, but at least then if all code is added via merges (and --no-ff) then all new code should be signed all the time.
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1203 2014-05-03 22:37:34 <PRab> That actually sounds a lot better than I was expecting.
1204 2014-05-03 22:37:38 <sipa> basically preventing github from doing nasty things underneath their 'merge' button
1205 2014-05-03 22:37:49 <sipa> the script is somewhere in our repository
1206 2014-05-03 22:38:13 <PRab> I'll poke around and see if I can find it.
1207 2014-05-03 22:39:02 shesek has joined
1208 2014-05-03 22:39:06 <sipa> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/master/contrib/devtools/github-merge.sh
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1210 2014-05-03 22:42:16 <PRab> Ah, just ran "git log --show-signature" and found that commit 2364b11 isn't signed.
1211 2014-05-03 22:42:32 <PRab> Looks like pretty good coverage, but not perfect
1212 2014-05-03 22:42:54 <sipa> some of the people with commit access use it, others don't
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1219 2014-05-03 22:49:49 * maaku advocates switching to monotone, and ducks
1220 2014-05-03 22:51:03 Zarutian has joined
1221 2014-05-03 22:51:18 <sipa> monotone?
1222 2014-05-03 22:51:38 <maaku> sipa: http://www.monotone.ca/
1223 2014-05-03 22:51:47 <maaku> a crypto-geek's DCVS, and pre-dates git
1224 2014-05-03 22:51:53 <PRab> I've never heard of it.
1225 2014-05-03 22:52:43 <PRab> Overall I like git, but its windows integration is a bit rough.
1226 2014-05-03 22:53:11 <PRab> For example, right now it is trying to find my pubring.gpg in the wrong folder.
1227 2014-05-03 22:53:18 <sipa> never heard of it either
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1229 2014-05-03 22:53:35 <sipa> only sha1 as well :(
1230 2014-05-03 22:53:40 DiabloD3 is now known as Diablo-D3
1231 2014-05-03 22:53:57 <maaku> sipa: sha-256 disn't exist back then
1232 2014-05-03 22:53:59 rdymac has quit (Excess Flood)
1233 2014-05-03 22:54:09 <PRab> I thought sha1 is still considered secure.
1234 2014-05-03 22:54:21 CoinHeavy has joined
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1236 2014-05-03 22:54:26 <sipa> maaku: really? :o
1237 2014-05-03 22:54:27 <maaku> true story: linus torvolds was going to switch the kernel from bitkeeper to monotone, but the then-current version of monotone was illperformant at importing the kernel history
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1239 2014-05-03 22:54:48 <CoinHeavy> I don’t see any reference to $(OPENSSL_INCLUDE_PATH) in the current bitcoin source.  How can I point the makefile to a specific verstion of openssl? (I am on centos and had to compile openssl for EC support)
1240 2014-05-03 22:55:04 <maaku> but the monotone devs were on holiday that week so he wrote git over the weekend instead :\
1241 2014-05-03 22:55:53 <sipa> CoinHeavy: --with-openssl, i guess
1242 2014-05-03 22:55:57 <maaku> bloody shame because monotone is a very finely architected version control system, at the right abstraction level and with well-thought-out designs
1243 2014-05-03 22:56:00 <sipa> to comfigute
1244 2014-05-03 22:56:07 <sipa> *comfigure
1245 2014-05-03 22:56:10 <sipa> grr!
1246 2014-05-03 22:56:13 <gmaxwell> maaku: sha256 existed when all these scms were created.
1247 2014-05-03 22:56:17 <sipa> coNfigure
1248 2014-05-03 22:56:22 <gmaxwell> SHA2 was first published in something like 2000 or 2001.
1249 2014-05-03 22:56:22 giustoXricordarl has quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
1250 2014-05-03 22:56:23 <sipa> sha256: 2001
1251 2014-05-03 22:56:24 <CoinHeavy> so something like ‘./configure —with-openssl <path_to_ssl>’?
1252 2014-05-03 22:56:30 <sipa> CoinHeavy: rtfm
1253 2014-05-03 22:56:40 <sipa> ./comfigure --help
1254 2014-05-03 22:56:42 <CoinHeavy> sorry sipa — still learning
1255 2014-05-03 22:56:44 <CoinHeavy> ah, thanks
1256 2014-05-03 22:57:00 <sipa> monotone: 2003
1257 2014-05-03 22:57:12 <gmaxwell> CoinHeavy: compiling it against a specific one is not good enough; you must also link the right one.
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1259 2014-05-03 23:01:29 <sipa> strange, using endian.h's macros seems very slightly slower than using __builtin_bswap32 directly
1260 2014-05-03 23:01:29 <sipa> i wonder what that macro does except calling that builtin...
1261 2014-05-03 23:01:29 <PRab> If there are any windows developers lurking, run "mklink /D c:\Users\USERNAME\.gnupg C:\Users\USERNAME\AppData\Roaming\gnupg" to fix "git log --show-signature"
1262 2014-05-03 23:01:29 <PRab> off to write a bug report
1263 2014-05-03 23:04:08 <gmaxwell> sipa: calling a function it defines as static inline that calls __builtin_bswap32; at least on my system.
1264 2014-05-03 23:04:08 <gmaxwell> it should all get optimized, but perhaps the extra indirection confuses the optimizer.
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1266 2014-05-03 23:04:08 <sipa> maybe my measurement is just noisy
1267 2014-05-03 23:04:08 <sipa> i just remember seeing >1.20Mhash/s on a single core with the builtin
1268 2014-05-03 23:06:19 <sipa> and only 1.19 with endian.h
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1271 2014-05-03 23:06:19 <sipa> of course, the fact that we do a stack protection check in every invocation of the compressioin function has probably a larger effect :)
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1277 2014-05-03 23:08:41 <gmaxwell> dunno, I would be a little surprised, I thought the stack check was a single compare and a well predicted never taken branch.
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1286 2014-05-03 23:13:11 <sipa> hmm, ok
1287 2014-05-03 23:13:11 <sipa> anyway, seems the difference is between 1.206 Mhash/s and 1.196 Mhash/s
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1293 2014-05-03 23:15:21 <maaku> sipa: what compression function?
1294 2014-05-03 23:15:21 giustoXricordarl has joined
1295 2014-05-03 23:15:21 <gmaxwell> maaku: the sha256 compression function. (the interior of the hash)
1296 2014-05-03 23:15:21 <maaku> ok
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1299 2014-05-03 23:17:32 <sipa> it's odd, because the generated code is using the bswap instruction
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1302 2014-05-03 23:17:32 <sipa> but perhaps less optimal register allocation
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1324 2014-05-03 23:43:04 <shesek> is there any public place that keeps track of reorgs?
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