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  26 2014-05-08 00:49:07 <coryfields> warren: changes pushed up to make the osx x86_64 build deterministic now as well, if you feel like playing with it.
  27 2014-05-08 00:49:19 <coryfields> I'm going to call that my stopping point for the night
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 242 2014-05-08 04:16:25 <x0301> hello, can someone tell me if my understanding of SIGHASH_SINGLE and SIGHASH_ANYONECANPAY is correct?
 243 2014-05-08 04:17:40 <x0301> I'm reading through the documentation on the wiki but I'm not sure if I am understanding it correctly
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 251 2014-05-08 04:26:23 <lifeofcray> hey
 252 2014-05-08 04:26:39 <lifeofcray> hey guys, is there any open source internet wallet coes
 253 2014-05-08 04:26:49 <lifeofcray> codes out there, that you feel are good?
 254 2014-05-08 04:27:17 <lifeofcray> I was planning on opening up a multicoin wallet, bitcoin, litecoin, etc
 255 2014-05-08 04:27:25 <lifeofcray> but i don't want to write the thing from scratch
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 269 2014-05-08 04:41:52 <midnightmagic> lifeofcray: altcoins offtopic in here. Also, please reconsider doing a web wallet.
 270 2014-05-08 04:42:46 mappum has joined
 271 2014-05-08 04:44:22 <lifeofcray> midnightmagic why so?
 272 2014-05-08 04:44:28 <dcousens> what does the 'v' represent in vout?
 273 2014-05-08 04:44:41 <lifeofcray> it's not something i've just though about right now
 274 2014-05-08 04:44:47 <lifeofcray> we've had these plans for a while
 275 2014-05-08 04:45:00 <lifeofcray> to strenghen our brand name
 276 2014-05-08 04:45:15 <dcousens> lifeofcray: I agree with midnightmagic, but in any case, CoinPunk?
 277 2014-05-08 04:45:28 <midnightmagic> lifeofcray: It breaks the trust model; also, it's extremely difficult ~impossible to write one securely for users.
 278 2014-05-08 04:45:39 <survic> lifeofcray: it always ends in disaster. that you're asking for a premade solution says to me that you haven't thought through what it means to be in control and have responsibility for the security of other people's money.
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 280 2014-05-08 04:48:26 <dcousens> what does the 'v' represent in vout?
 281 2014-05-08 04:48:44 <dcousens> (not sure if that went through before, VPS terminal crapped out)
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 286 2014-05-08 04:53:11 <lifeofcray> survic oh i know exactly how much work
 287 2014-05-08 04:53:13 <lifeofcray> it would be
 288 2014-05-08 04:53:41 <lifeofcray> hence why i'm asking if there's anything open source to get me started
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 290 2014-05-08 04:53:58 <lifeofcray> i already run several pools at bitember.com
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 292 2014-05-08 04:54:15 <lifeofcray> which a lot of money, where we have to think a lot about security
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 294 2014-05-08 04:55:50 <lifeofcray> so what i'm asking for is an active project, since they tend to have several people updating and patching the code
 295 2014-05-08 04:55:59 <survic> running what ammounts to a bank is a whole different matter. you'll be attacked with zero days, have your BGP routes poisoned, have people trying to social engineer your data center's administration. faced with those, no sane person would even attempt this.
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 297 2014-05-08 04:56:46 <lifeofcray> if no sane person ever attempt it, it'll never be done
 298 2014-05-08 04:57:00 <survic> it should never be done, that's the point.
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 300 2014-05-08 04:57:16 <lifeofcray> thing is, there's a vacuum for the service as it stands now
 301 2014-05-08 04:57:29 <lifeofcray> you either store your coins on your computer, or an exchange as cryptorush
 302 2014-05-08 04:57:54 <lifeofcray> which went down
 303 2014-05-08 04:57:56 <lifeofcray> or mtgox
 304 2014-05-08 04:57:59 <lifeofcray> which went down
 305 2014-05-08 04:58:12 <survic> what stops your web wallet from going the same way?
 306 2014-05-08 04:58:12 <lifeofcray> or cryptsy, which have insanely high rates
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 309 2014-05-08 04:58:52 <lifeofcray> well, for one thing, i wouldn't just "lose" a wallet with 200k btc
 310 2014-05-08 04:59:11 <lifeofcray> and then just operate as any sane bank
 311 2014-05-08 04:59:29 <Luke-Jr> dcousens: vector
 312 2014-05-08 04:59:34 <survic> what happens when your server does get compromised?
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 314 2014-05-08 05:00:17 <Luke-Jr> lifeofcray: no offense, but magicaltux was probably more competent to keep 200kBTC safe than you are
 315 2014-05-08 05:00:21 <lifeofcray> store the money off site, have people requiring to verificate their identity if the account rises above a certain value, 2fa, bot prevention
 316 2014-05-08 05:00:28 <survic> even Luke-Jr's pool got popped recently. you can't have absolute security.
 317 2014-05-08 05:00:36 <Luke-Jr> survic: not really
 318 2014-05-08 05:00:47 <lifeofcray> you can never have absolute security in any company
 319 2014-05-08 05:00:54 <lifeofcray> what you can do is to mitigate the risk
 320 2014-05-08 05:00:59 <survic> Luke-Jr: oh I know, the front end got compromised, let me make an example at your expensive
 321 2014-05-08 05:01:04 <survic> expense.
 322 2014-05-08 05:01:08 <Luke-Jr> survic: no bitcoins were lost
 323 2014-05-08 05:01:18 <survic> Luke-Jr: namecoin on the other hand ;)
 324 2014-05-08 05:01:28 <Luke-Jr> yes, namecoin is worthless and has problems interfering with proper security
 325 2014-05-08 05:02:05 <lifeofcray> i didnt really want this to become an etichs or moral discussion
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 327 2014-05-08 05:02:30 <Luke-Jr> lifeofcray: it's not a moral discussion; the point is you *cannot* secure it
 328 2014-05-08 05:02:33 <lifeofcray> i'd take similar precautions as when I worked as a bank
 329 2014-05-08 05:02:36 <survic> lifeofcray: then don't talk about it here. we've told you that it's a stupid idea, and you shouldn't attempt it.
 330 2014-05-08 05:02:48 <Luke-Jr> lifeofcray: banks aren't as secure, as a webwallet needs to be
 331 2014-05-08 05:02:53 <lifeofcray> you're never secure, but more often than not, your profit is higher than your loss
 332 2014-05-08 05:02:58 <lifeofcray> otherwise you go bankrupt
 333 2014-05-08 05:03:03 <Luke-Jr> banks don't let you do wire transfers online
 334 2014-05-08 05:03:05 <Luke-Jr> and can reverse them
 335 2014-05-08 05:03:09 <survic> lifeofcray: what happens when somebody comes to your house with a baseball bat and tells you to give up your keys?
 336 2014-05-08 05:03:44 <Luke-Jr> …
 337 2014-05-08 05:03:44 weilu has joined
 338 2014-05-08 05:03:50 <lifeofcray> right
 339 2014-05-08 05:04:00 <Luke-Jr> someone robbing lifeofcray has to consider whether the risk is worth their potential gain (1 user's savings)
 340 2014-05-08 05:04:08 grau_ has joined
 341 2014-05-08 05:04:17 <Luke-Jr> a webwallet, on the other hand, basically guarantees you will be a high-value target
 342 2014-05-08 05:04:36 <lifeofcray> that's a risk i'm willing to take
 343 2014-05-08 05:04:48 <survic> Luke-Jr: I meant the keys to the web wallet, not the users itself.
 344 2014-05-08 05:04:53 <Luke-Jr> lifeofcray: and when you lose thousands of bitcoins?
 345 2014-05-08 05:05:01 <lifeofcray> i'll go bankrupt
 346 2014-05-08 05:05:01 <Luke-Jr> survic: I know you did.
 347 2014-05-08 05:05:09 <Luke-Jr> lifeofcray: see mtgox
 348 2014-05-08 05:05:40 <lifeofcray> well hopefully it wont come to that
 349 2014-05-08 05:05:41 <survic> Luke-Jr: oh right, misread.
 350 2014-05-08 05:05:45 <lifeofcray> but if it does, bankruptcy
 351 2014-05-08 05:05:51 <lifeofcray> just as any other company
 352 2014-05-08 05:06:09 <survic> nice plan.
 353 2014-05-08 05:06:17 <lifeofcray> what do you want me to say?
 354 2014-05-08 05:06:23 kdomanski has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 355 2014-05-08 05:06:24 <lifeofcray> if you went to ikea and took all their money
 356 2014-05-08 05:06:26 <lifeofcray> like all of it
 357 2014-05-08 05:06:35 <lifeofcray> do you think they would not file for bankruptcy
 358 2014-05-08 05:06:42 <Luke-Jr> lifeofcray: point is, MtGox already did that. and they were more competent than anyone else trying in the past and probably future.
 359 2014-05-08 05:06:48 <Luke-Jr> near future*
 360 2014-05-08 05:06:48 <lifeofcray> the question is how prepared you are for a set back
 361 2014-05-08 05:06:48 <survic> no, they'd just ask their bank to reverse the transaction.
 362 2014-05-08 05:07:03 weilu has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 363 2014-05-08 05:07:11 grau has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
 364 2014-05-08 05:07:19 <lifeofcray> survic and what if someone took all the banks money?
 365 2014-05-08 05:07:41 <Luke-Jr> lifeofcray: that's what the FBI is for
 366 2014-05-08 05:07:45 <sipa> lifeofcray: http://canibuildasitehandlingotherpeoplesmoney.com/
 367 2014-05-08 05:07:50 <survic> lifeofcray: you can't do that. banks usually don't have the money on hand to even be stolen.
 368 2014-05-08 05:07:52 <lifeofcray> you're taking a risk storing your BTC
 369 2014-05-08 05:08:01 <Luke-Jr> sipa: nice!
 370 2014-05-08 05:08:11 <lifeofcray> oh my god
 371 2014-05-08 05:08:15 <lifeofcray> i though this was -dev
 372 2014-05-08 05:08:18 <lifeofcray> not -ethics
 373 2014-05-08 05:08:29 <sipa> basically everyone who has tried to do so has failed; some several times
 374 2014-05-08 05:08:38 <sipa> i agree it's off topic here, though
 375 2014-05-08 05:08:49 <survic> lifeofcray: ethical people won't help you shoot yourself in the ass, no matter what the channel.
 376 2014-05-08 05:08:55 <lifeofcray> blockchain.info
 377 2014-05-08 05:09:01 <lifeofcray> cryptsy.com
 378 2014-05-08 05:09:17 * Luke-Jr will breathe a sigh of relief when blockchain.info loses a bunch of money
 379 2014-05-08 05:09:18 dokk has joined
 380 2014-05-08 05:09:21 <survic> blockchain.info is arguably stupid for doing what they're doing
 381 2014-05-08 05:09:27 kdomanski has joined
 382 2014-05-08 05:09:27 <dokk> is there any open-source merged mining pool software?
 383 2014-05-08 05:09:33 <Luke-Jr> dokk: Eloipool
 384 2014-05-08 05:09:34 <lifeofcray> i can assure you that blockchain.info and cryptsy.com
 385 2014-05-08 05:09:40 BigBitz has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 386 2014-05-08 05:09:40 <lifeofcray> has lost a lot of bitcoins
 387 2014-05-08 05:09:45 <lifeofcray> due to theft
 388 2014-05-08 05:09:49 <Luke-Jr> dokk: assuming you consider AGPL to be open source enough
 389 2014-05-08 05:10:02 <survic> lifeofcray: nobody would argue with you there.
 390 2014-05-08 05:10:15 <dokk> Luke-Jr: I will check it out
 391 2014-05-08 05:11:56 <lifeofcray> yeah
 392 2014-05-08 05:12:01 <lifeofcray> ill just write my own
 393 2014-05-08 05:12:10 <lifeofcray> it'll take a while
 394 2014-05-08 05:12:30 <lifeofcray> and it'll be less secure than an ongoing open source project
 395 2014-05-08 05:12:32 <lifeofcray> but fuck it
 396 2014-05-08 05:12:46 <survic> lifeofcray: you must be incredibly dense to continue on given this response to your idea.
 397 2014-05-08 05:13:17 <lifeofcray> sometimes you have to take a risk
 398 2014-05-08 05:13:42 <lifeofcray> make a daughter company handle the service
 399 2014-05-08 05:13:57 <lifeofcray> economy 101
 400 2014-05-08 05:14:36 <survic> > do something everybody has told you not to
 401 2014-05-08 05:14:42 <survic> > shut down the shell company and declare bankruptcy when it gets compromised
 402 2014-05-08 05:14:53 <survic> yep. economy 101.
 403 2014-05-08 05:15:16 mpmcsweeney has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 404 2014-05-08 05:15:48 <lifeofcray> if i never did anything people told me not to
 405 2014-05-08 05:15:51 <lifeofcray> i'd be broke
 406 2014-05-08 05:15:53 mpmcsweeney has joined
 407 2014-05-08 05:16:13 <lifeofcray> again
 408 2014-05-08 05:16:14 <lifeofcray> ethics
 409 2014-05-08 05:16:19 <lifeofcray> not much dev
 410 2014-05-08 05:16:27 <survic> do what you want, but stop talking about it in this channel.
 411 2014-05-08 05:16:39 <lifeofcray> you can't tell me what to do survic
 412 2014-05-08 05:17:04 <lifeofcray> no matter how condescending you are
 413 2014-05-08 05:17:25 <survic> this channel is for core development discussion, you've already been told this by other users.
 414 2014-05-08 05:17:51 <lifeofcray> and i asked for an open source bitcoin wallet
 415 2014-05-08 05:18:00 <lifeofcray> told to you by me, several times
 416 2014-05-08 05:18:07 <survic> that's not core development discussion.
 417 2014-05-08 05:18:16 <lifeofcray> you dragged it into a discussion it wasn'
 418 2014-05-08 05:18:17 <lifeofcray> t
 419 2014-05-08 05:18:49 <lifeofcray> "This is for discussion about the Bitcoin network and reference software"
 420 2014-05-08 05:19:22 <lifeofcray> read the topic
 421 2014-05-08 05:20:04 mpmcsweeney has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 422 2014-05-08 05:20:11 <survic> a web wallet is neither.
 423 2014-05-08 05:20:32 <lifeofcray> "blah blah i don't know the answer so i'm going to spout bullshit"
 424 2014-05-08 05:20:40 <lifeofcray> that's what i'm hearing right now
 425 2014-05-08 05:20:43 <lifeofcray> from you
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 450 2014-05-08 06:09:29 <[\\\]> +1
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 455 2014-05-08 06:19:59 Eremes has joined
 456 2014-05-08 06:20:32 <Eremes> are we having a long block ?
 457 2014-05-08 06:20:46 <Eremes> its been an hour I sent payment not even 1 confirm ?
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 461 2014-05-08 06:21:49 <gmaxwell> Eremes: Take that kind of question to #bitcoin please! (see also: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Bitcoin-dev)
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 463 2014-05-08 06:23:39 <Eremes> gmaxwell: sorry & thanks
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 629 2014-05-08 08:50:26 <poutine> Is there any examples or cataloging of strange scripting in transactions?
 630 2014-05-08 08:51:36 <wumpus> poutine: yess https://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/5883/is-there-a-listing-of-strange-or-unusual-scripts-found-in-transactions
 631 2014-05-08 08:51:48 <poutine> Thanks wumpus
 632 2014-05-08 08:51:56 <poutine> I'm guessing that was a simple google away, my bad
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 635 2014-05-08 08:52:35 <wumpus> huh, seems that the blockchain.info page with strange transactions isn't showing anything anymore
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 637 2014-05-08 08:53:32 <wumpus> I imagine most of the 'stranger' transactions are on testnet
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 653 2014-05-08 09:02:23 <ccapndave> Hey everyone
 654 2014-05-08 09:03:25 zcopley_ has joined
 655 2014-05-08 09:03:42 <ccapndave> Is there a way to use sendfrom <account> such that it will succeed even if there isn't enougy balance in <account> (there is enough in the wallet in other accounts though).  Currently it says 'account has insufficient funds', but if I was to use sendtoaddress to send from the default account it would work fine, and put the default account into negative balance.
 656 2014-05-08 09:03:58 <ccapndave> So I want that behaviour, but sending from a non-default account
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 663 2014-05-08 09:12:01 <wumpus> I don't think so, the account system is extremely inconsistent in that regard
 664 2014-05-08 09:12:28 <ccapndave> Yes, it seems kind of odd in general
 665 2014-05-08 09:12:49 <ccapndave> I actually just saw a comment in a bug saying account functionality would be removed completely in the next major release
 666 2014-05-08 09:13:13 <wumpus> indeed
 667 2014-05-08 09:14:06 <ccapndave> Not really sure how to implement my app without using accounts though :(
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 669 2014-05-08 09:14:51 <wumpus> just like you'd implement any accounting system; in principle accounting for bitcoins is not different than accounting for dollars, euros, etc
 670 2014-05-08 09:15:12 <ccapndave> Real accounting is even more complicated ;)
 671 2014-05-08 09:15:19 <ccapndave> If I use bitcoind to move funds between accounts, its all internal right?  It won't generate any transactions
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 673 2014-05-08 09:16:16 <wumpus> yes, it just generates an entry in its own internal ledger
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 676 2014-05-08 09:16:45 <ccapndave> OK thanks
 677 2014-05-08 09:16:51 <wumpus> nothing changes for the outside world
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 680 2014-05-08 09:17:10 <ccapndave> I have been reading that bitcoind isn't scalable up to lots of accounts/transactions so I guess I'll worry about changing it if the traffic makes it worthwhile
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 682 2014-05-08 09:19:06 <wumpus> right, the wallet in bitcoind doesn't scale very well, but none of the open source wallets in common use do AFAIK
 683 2014-05-08 09:19:19 <ccapndave> Fingers crossed by the time I need it they will
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 685 2014-05-08 09:19:34 <ccapndave> I don't look forward to implementing my own client...
 686 2014-05-08 09:20:28 <ccapndave> But anyway, given that bitcoind might not be usable in the long run I might as well hack something with accounts and move
 687 2014-05-08 09:20:28 <wumpus> one day, someone that actually uses bitcoind on a high-traffic service should help bitcoind's wallet scale better, find out where the pain points are, optimize it
 688 2014-05-08 09:20:38 <ccapndave> Its got to happen at some point
 689 2014-05-08 09:20:57 <ccapndave> If it happens to be me I promise to contribute it
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 692 2014-05-08 09:21:09 * ccapndave makes a pinkie promise
 693 2014-05-08 09:21:15 <wumpus> great!
 694 2014-05-08 09:21:46 <wumpus> most of the current devs are interested in improviding node performance, but not so much wallet performance
 695 2014-05-08 09:21:54 <wumpus> improving*
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 698 2014-05-08 09:23:18 <wumpus> removing 'ballast' like the account system may be a step in that direction, though a small one
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 700 2014-05-08 09:24:38 <ccapndave> Maybe bundling an optional dbms that stays in sync with the client would be a solution
 701 2014-05-08 09:24:58 <ccapndave> Then that can take care of indexing, etc
 702 2014-05-08 09:25:14 <ccapndave> With a simple bridge to make sure that transactions end up in a nice table structure
 703 2014-05-08 09:25:25 <ccapndave> As it stands almost everyone ends up writing one anyway
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 705 2014-05-08 09:25:52 <ccapndave> Then some of the performance heavy stuff can be offloading to an existing open source solution
 706 2014-05-08 09:26:20 <wumpus> someone with a profiler and c++ knowledge and actual large-wallet test cases could probably go a long way
 707 2014-05-08 09:26:26 <ccapndave> offloaded*
 708 2014-05-08 09:26:39 <wumpus> shouldn't need to introduce any new dependencies
 709 2014-05-08 09:26:51 <ccapndave> I suppose
 710 2014-05-08 09:27:11 <wumpus> leveldb and the current indexes are very fast, I'm sure that isn't the bottleneck
 711 2014-05-08 09:27:31 <ccapndave> If the accounting system is removed something will need to replace it though
 712 2014-05-08 09:27:40 <wumpus> not anything by us
 713 2014-05-08 09:27:59 <ccapndave> All people want is stuff like searching for all receive transactions from a certain address
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 715 2014-05-08 09:28:05 <wumpus> I'd hope someone would work on an open-source and sane replacement for it, that works outside bitcoind as a layer on top
 716 2014-05-08 09:28:09 <ccapndave> Sure
 717 2014-05-08 09:28:15 <ccapndave> I guess that's what I'm talking about
 718 2014-05-08 09:28:39 <ccapndave> But still something that happens before any app
 719 2014-05-08 09:28:58 <wumpus> searching for all receive transactions *to* a certain address will keep working, as will labeling addresses, no need for the account system for that
 720 2014-05-08 09:28:59 <ccapndave> So if I'm writing my shop or whatever I can just hook straight into this database and never really know anything about bitcoind
 721 2014-05-08 09:29:19 <ccapndave> wumpus Really?  Maybe I'm misunderstand some stuff
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 725 2014-05-08 09:29:54 <wumpus> that would be an ideal solution, you tend to end up with the commercial solutions in that case, as they can spend a lot more time in making the product friendly for a single purpose
 726 2014-05-08 09:30:17 <wumpus> the curse of open source development is that you have 20 people, 20 opinions of what needs to be done, and 20 different solutions
 727 2014-05-08 09:30:28 <wumpus> it's not very well suited to targeted solutions
 728 2014-05-08 09:30:30 <ccapndave> True dat
 729 2014-05-08 09:30:41 <ccapndave> wumpus Currently I have one account per user, created with getaccountaddress and people deposit into their account
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 731 2014-05-08 09:31:12 <wumpus> accounts would be replaced by 'labels' attached to the receiving address
 732 2014-05-08 09:31:13 <ccapndave> The only reason, really, is so that I can do listtransactions(<account)
 733 2014-05-08 09:31:23 <ccapndave> Is there another way at present to do this?
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 735 2014-05-08 09:31:27 <wumpus> what would disappear is the internal ledger
 736 2014-05-08 09:31:50 <wumpus> so move, and and 'sending from' accounts
 737 2014-05-08 09:32:07 <wumpus> but the receiving transactions part would stay; it's the only way to distinguish customers!
 738 2014-05-08 09:32:18 <ccapndave> Right
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 743 2014-05-08 09:33:22 <ccapndave> Well anyway, for my use case I guess I'll just move the difference from the default account into the customer account before sending so it can't go negative
 744 2014-05-08 09:33:29 <ccapndave> That will work for now
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 746 2014-05-08 09:34:55 <ccapndave> Finally I heard from an unconfirmed source that getbalance with accounts wasn't always reliable
 747 2014-05-08 09:35:00 <ccapndave> Is that nonsense (please say yes1)
 748 2014-05-08 09:35:46 <wumpus> anything with accounts and balances isn't always reliable
 749 2014-05-08 09:36:00 <ccapndave> Oh dear
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 751 2014-05-08 09:36:01 <ccapndave> In what way?
 752 2014-05-08 09:36:12 <wumpus> well, it is reliable in that it is deterministic, but it may do something else than you expect
 753 2014-05-08 09:36:15 <ccapndave> Ok
 754 2014-05-08 09:36:20 <ccapndave> I need to know the rules...
 755 2014-05-08 09:36:28 <wumpus> best to restrict to getbalance of the whole wallet 
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 757 2014-05-08 09:36:42 <wumpus> that *is* reliable
 758 2014-05-08 09:36:51 <ccapndave> The thing is, if I need to send money back to a customer I want it to come out of his account.
 759 2014-05-08 09:37:06 <ccapndave> So I was planning to move the difference from the default account into their account, then sendfrom their account
 760 2014-05-08 09:37:07 <ccapndave> Bad idea?
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 762 2014-05-08 09:38:29 <wumpus> yes, bad idea; do the accounting in your side, so if a transaction comes in from bitcoind credit it to the user/order that it's sent to. If you refund, keep track of that on your own side. 
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 764 2014-05-08 09:38:43 <wumpus> do your own accounting, don't use bitcoind for it
 765 2014-05-08 09:38:53 <ccapndave> I am also doing it in the app
 766 2014-05-08 09:39:05 <ccapndave> I just though it would be a sanity check to keep things need bitcoind side too
 767 2014-05-08 09:39:15 <ccapndave> Sounds like it would be an insanity check though
 768 2014-05-08 09:39:29 <ccapndave> neat, not need
 769 2014-05-08 09:39:32 <wumpus> doubting the wisdom of using the bitcoind account system for a *sanity* check heh
 770 2014-05-08 09:40:24 <wumpus> though if you don't rely on it, just use it as a backup (with "real" accounting to fall back on if something weird happens), it should be ok...
 771 2014-05-08 09:40:36 <ccapndave> ok
 772 2014-05-08 09:41:09 <ccapndave> The worst that will happen is that there won't be enough money in a customer account because something went odd with the move in which case we'll get an error notification and sort it out
 773 2014-05-08 09:41:15 <ccapndave> (Or they will come complaining)
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 775 2014-05-08 09:41:35 <ccapndave> And actually it will try every 15 seconds so if its intermittent it will probably sort itself out
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 777 2014-05-08 09:41:50 <wumpus> be careful with automatic retries ;)
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 779 2014-05-08 09:41:59 <ccapndave> Yes
 780 2014-05-08 09:42:04 <ccapndave> I learnt that during development
 781 2014-05-08 09:42:14 <ccapndave> Accidentally put a + instead of a - and emptied out the whole wallet
 782 2014-05-08 09:42:38 <ccapndave> I need to pay out 1mbtc says the app. 15 seconds later 2, then 4, etc
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1260 2014-05-08 16:50:07 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|08:00:32 <Luke-Jr> banks don't let you do wire transfers online <-- Eh? They don't?
1261 2014-05-08 16:50:59 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|08:05:14 <sipa> lifeofcray: http://canibuildasitehandlingotherpeoplesmoney.com/ <-- Ouch. I forgot I made that.
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1289 2014-05-08 17:26:41 <daaa> How can I create my own alt-coin
1290 2014-05-08 17:26:44 <daaa> is there any guide
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1293 2014-05-08 17:27:39 <Ry4an> usually you start with some pennies and go after them w/ a file, but you get greater intrisic value if you start w/ quarters
1294 2014-05-08 17:27:45 <Ry4an> err, I mean, this isn't the channel to talk about tha.t
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1296 2014-05-08 17:32:30 <sipa> daaa: offtopic here
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1380 2014-05-08 18:59:17 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Hm, I wonder if an alert that only activates for miners might be useful
1381 2014-05-08 18:59:40 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Perhaps have an internal flag for "is mining"
1382 2014-05-08 19:00:11 ConvivialMatt has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1383 2014-05-08 19:00:13 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|Which starts off being off at startup, but is flipped to on when getwork or gbt are called
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1387 2014-05-08 19:01:18 <makomk> ahmed_: I honestly have no idea whether that old pushpool code of mine works or not at this point, sorry.
1388 2014-05-08 19:01:38 brson has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
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1390 2014-05-08 19:05:44 <CodeShar_> what's the procedure for getting a wallet listed on bitcoin.org's "Choose your wallet" page? Manually edit the choose-your-wallet template at the bitcoin.org repo and submit pull request?
1391 2014-05-08 19:05:54 CodeShar_ has quit ()
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1393 2014-05-08 19:06:31 <CodeShark> what's the procedure for getting a wallet listed on bitcoin.org's "Choose your wallet" page? Manually edit the choose-your-wallet template at the bitcoin.org repo and submit pull request?
1394 2014-05-08 19:07:16 MiningBuddy- has joined
1395 2014-05-08 19:07:59 <sipa> yes
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1400 2014-05-08 19:10:09 <CodeShark> how can I make sure the manually inserted code works correctly short of setting up a web server with the complete environment?
1401 2014-05-08 19:10:39 <CodeShark> is there a staging site?
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1403 2014-05-08 19:10:57 <sipa> no idea
1404 2014-05-08 19:11:06 <CodeShark> hmm - who should I talk to?
1405 2014-05-08 19:11:12 <sipa> saivann_ i guess
1406 2014-05-08 19:11:16 <wumpus> yes, there is a staging site
1407 2014-05-08 19:11:17 <CodeShark> is he here?
1408 2014-05-08 19:11:22 MiningBuddy has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
1409 2014-05-08 19:11:40 <CodeShark> wumpus, how can I access it>?
1410 2014-05-08 19:12:07 <wumpus> I don't know by heart...
1411 2014-05-08 19:12:17 <CodeShark> is it documented anywhere?
1412 2014-05-08 19:12:21 <CodeShark> and if not, who would know?
1413 2014-05-08 19:13:02 <wumpus> saivann_ knows
1414 2014-05-08 19:13:22 <CodeShark> what's the best way to get a hold of him?
1415 2014-05-08 19:14:10 <michagogo> cloud!uid14316@wikia/Michagogo|;;later tell?
1416 2014-05-08 19:14:10 <gribble> Error: The "Later" plugin is loaded, but there is no command named "tell?" in it.  Try "list Later" to see the commands in the "Later" plugin.
1417 2014-05-08 19:14:14 Zarutian has joined
1418 2014-05-08 19:15:08 <wumpus> I think if you submit a pull request, they'll first test it on the staging site before merging it
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1425 2014-05-08 19:18:24 <CodeShark> I'd like to do it interactively if possible as it's very likely when manually editing this stuff that you'll miss a tag or do something silly like that
1426 2014-05-08 19:18:35 Vitalik_ has joined
1427 2014-05-08 19:18:45 <CodeShark> and it's silly to take up other people's time debugging these things
1428 2014-05-08 19:18:54 zcopley_ is now known as zcopley
1429 2014-05-08 19:20:14 <CodeShark> anyhow, if anyone could help me get a hold of saivann it would be much appreciated
1430 2014-05-08 19:21:15 <wumpus> well you can always install jekyll and build the site locally
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1435 2014-05-08 19:31:12 <roybadami> Hmm, I realise that this will probably more arise in testing than in real use.... but if I have a BIP72 URL on my clipboard, it appears there is no way I can actually ask Bitcoin Core to pay it....
1436 2014-05-08 19:31:18 <aschildbach> How can I ask gribble when user Alexykot was last seen?
1437 2014-05-08 19:31:31 <aschildbach> gribble: help
1438 2014-05-08 19:31:32 <roybadami> I have to paste it into my browser, and have my browser invoke Bitcoin Core....
1439 2014-05-08 19:31:54 unepetitepiece has joined
1440 2014-05-08 19:31:57 <aschildbach> roybadami: You can say Open URL or sth like that from the menu.
1441 2014-05-08 19:32:03 <roybadami> Doing the obvious (to me) think of pasting the URL into the send dialg doesn't work
1442 2014-05-08 19:32:12 <roybadami> Doh!
1443 2014-05-08 19:32:16 <roybadami> Thank you!
1444 2014-05-08 19:32:20 joedoe- is now known as psposki^android
1445 2014-05-08 19:32:40 psposki^android is now known as psposki^iphone
1446 2014-05-08 19:32:47 <sipa> you can also download the payment request, and load it directly, i think?
1447 2014-05-08 19:32:49 <aschildbach> !help
1448 2014-05-08 19:32:50 <gribble> The bot responds when you start a line with the ! character. A good starting point for exploring the bot is the !facts command. You can also visit the bot's website for a list of help topics and documentation: http://gribble.sourceforge.net/
1449 2014-05-08 19:33:00 psposki^iphone is now known as joedoe-
1450 2014-05-08 19:33:06 unepetitepiece is now known as test12
1451 2014-05-08 19:33:08 test12 is now known as test123
1452 2014-05-08 19:33:12 <aschildbach> !facts
1453 2014-05-08 19:33:12 <gribble> To see a nice sortable web view of all factoids, click here: http://gribble.dreamhosters.com/viewfactoids.php?db=%23bitcoin-dev || To see a list of the most popular factoids, run !rank || To search factoids, run !factoids search <yoursearchterm>
1454 2014-05-08 19:33:15 test123 is now known as test123456789
1455 2014-05-08 19:33:33 test123456789 is now known as Redditor
1456 2014-05-08 19:33:36 Redditor is now known as Redd1tor
1457 2014-05-08 19:33:47 <aschildbach> !lastseen Alexykot
1458 2014-05-08 19:33:47 <gribble> Error: "lastseen" is not a valid command.
1459 2014-05-08 19:33:48 <saivann_> CodeShark: Yes you should be building the website locally. (https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin.org#previewing) But if you submit a pull request, I will for sure test it myself.
1460 2014-05-08 19:33:59 <roybadami> sipa: ah, thanks.  How do I do that?
1461 2014-05-08 19:34:00 <CodeShark> awesome - thanks :)
1462 2014-05-08 19:34:10 <sipa> roybadami: no idea
1463 2014-05-08 19:34:51 <roybadami> No worries - File, Open URI... is fine.
1464 2014-05-08 19:35:01 <CodeShark> saivann_: I edited /_templates/choose-your-wallet.html, added an application icon in /clients/ and added an app description in /_translations/en.yml
1465 2014-05-08 19:35:06 <CodeShark> anything else I need to do?
1466 2014-05-08 19:35:07 <mr_burdell> roybadami, sipa, I don't think downloading the payment request will work, because it only responds if you have the right accept headers set
1467 2014-05-08 19:35:35 <roybadami> Accept headers are only neaded for BIP73 URLs I thought?
1468 2014-05-08 19:35:38 <mr_burdell> I think bitpay will use the same url for the invoice on a webpage, but uses the headers to know what you're actually requesting
1469 2014-05-08 19:35:56 <sipa> ugh
1470 2014-05-08 19:36:01 <mr_burdell> well, if you can get the payment request, then loading it should work
1471 2014-05-08 19:36:14 <mr_burdell> just depends on where it's from and how they serve it
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1476 2014-05-08 19:36:34 <roybadami> Does Oh, BIP72 requires the Acept header, too.  My mistake
1477 2014-05-08 19:37:18 <roybadami> Ok, so say I have the request, how to I load it into Core?
1478 2014-05-08 19:37:32 * sipa tries building Qt
1479 2014-05-08 19:37:39 <mr_burdell> idk.. I haven't actually used core with bip70
1480 2014-05-08 19:38:15 deerBE has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1481 2014-05-08 19:38:56 <roybadami> nm, not important.  Was just curious
1482 2014-05-08 19:39:44 <sipa> pasting a payment uri as a destination address should work though (i'm not claiming it does; i'm surprised it doesn't)
1483 2014-05-08 19:39:44 <mr_burdell> on osx, you could probably do open('bitcoin:?https://url') assuming it ignores the address portion and gets that from the payment request
1484 2014-05-08 19:39:59 hmsimha has joined
1485 2014-05-08 19:40:14 <mr_burdell> sipa: you mean in the payto field? that's  a good point
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1496 2014-05-08 19:51:52 <roybadami> sipa: AFAICT it refuses to let you type (or paste) anything that's not alphanumeric
1497 2014-05-08 19:52:46 <roybadami> mr_burdell: I assume you mean bitcoin:?r=https://...
1498 2014-05-08 19:54:09 <roybadami> Yes, the address portion of BIP72 is only for backwards compatibility - BIP72 requires that if you use the payment protocol you ignore it
1499 2014-05-08 19:54:15 <sipa> roybadami: the "Open URI" dialog also allows opening a payment request file
1500 2014-05-08 19:54:25 <roybadami> Yes, thanks, got that
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1503 2014-05-08 19:59:18 <roybadami> I see Open URI doesn't support BIP73 though, only BIP72 and BIP21 (i.e. it seems to want a bitcoin: URI, not an http/https URI)
1504 2014-05-08 19:59:58 <roybadami> But I guess no one is really using BIP73
1505 2014-05-08 20:01:17 <mr_burdell> roybadami: right, the r parameter
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1507 2014-05-08 20:03:49 <roybadami> Anyone have any instructions for how to build with a compatible bdb on OSX?
1508 2014-05-08 20:04:08 <roybadami> I see there are nice instructions for unix, but not OSX
1509 2014-05-08 20:04:36 CryptoGalaxy has quit (Read error: No route to host)
1510 2014-05-08 20:04:47 <roybadami> So I guess I'll try the UNIX instructions (OSX is UNIX after all :)
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1513 2014-05-08 20:07:15 <roybadami> oh, nm.... looks like the OSX instructions just work (at least for homebrew).  I was expecting something more complicated :)
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1541 2014-05-08 20:36:38 <maraoz> is it possible to build bitcoind without the wallet functionality?
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1543 2014-05-08 20:37:04 <gmaxwell> ./configure --disable-wallet
1544 2014-05-08 20:37:05 <paveljanik> maraoz: sure
1545 2014-05-08 20:37:27 <gmaxwell> (for future reference, you could have successfully asked this in #bitcoin too!)
1546 2014-05-08 20:37:31 <Apocalyptic> is the memory impacr significant ?
1547 2014-05-08 20:37:47 <venzen> maraoz: and ./configure --help
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1551 2014-05-08 20:38:48 <gmaxwell> Apocalyptic: no, not at all.
1552 2014-05-08 20:38:54 <maraoz> thanks! yeah I wasn't sure if this was the right place.
1553 2014-05-08 20:39:12 <Luke-Jr> Apocalyptic: the main benefit AFAIK is that it doesn't load BDB into memory ;)
1554 2014-05-08 20:40:13 <Apocalyptic> I see, thanks
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1560 2014-05-08 20:44:10 <CodeShark> would anyone care to review a full-featured BIP32 account management app with GUI and command line tools? I'm willing to pay for competent code review and testing
1561 2014-05-08 20:44:34 <CodeShark> https://ciphrex.com
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1563 2014-05-08 20:46:53 <survic> > // TODO: Use better RNG
1564 2014-05-08 20:47:31 <CodeShark> are you talking about the coin selection?
1565 2014-05-08 20:47:37 <survic> I know it's not a security thing, but it got a laugh anyway
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1567 2014-05-08 20:49:31 <CodeShark> or getRandomNonce64?
1568 2014-05-08 20:49:43 <survic> that's the one, I can't even see where that's used
1569 2014-05-08 20:50:17 <CodeShark> deps/CoinQ/src/CoinQ_peer_io.cpp:21
1570 2014-05-08 20:50:46 <CodeShark> that's actually the only place where it's really used - all the other instances are in source files that are deprecated and will be removed from project
1571 2014-05-08 20:51:00 <survic> got it. like I said I only found the comment amusing, not the code
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1608 2014-05-08 21:38:43 <ahmed_> Luke-Jr: any ideas why bfgminer wont detect any of my BF1's even though im using sudo and they're all listed when i do lsusb
1609 2014-05-08 21:39:14 <Luke-Jr> off-topic, try #bitcoin-mining or #eligius
1610 2014-05-08 21:39:20 <ahmed_> okay
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