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  54 2014-05-20 00:52:22 <shaileshg> hey.. i just installed bitcoind and am getting this error "locale::facet::_S_create_c_locale name not valid"
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  56 2014-05-20 00:52:34 <shaileshg> instance of 'std::runtime_error'
  57 2014-05-20 00:52:43 <shaileshg> can anyone suggest what to do to get over it
  58 2014-05-20 00:52:48 <shaileshg> i know it is some locale problem
  59 2014-05-20 00:52:57 <shaileshg> can't remember how i solved it last time
  60 2014-05-20 00:53:05 <gwillen> shaileshg: do you know how to inspect your environment variables?
  61 2014-05-20 00:53:16 <gwillen> shaileshg: see what your LOCALE and LC_* environment vars are set to, and try unsetting them
  62 2014-05-20 00:53:19 <shaileshg> gwillen: no..
  63 2014-05-20 00:53:26 <gwillen> shaileshg: what kind of system are you on?
  64 2014-05-20 00:53:33 <shaileshg> ubuntu server
  65 2014-05-20 00:53:41 <gwillen> run 'env'
  66 2014-05-20 00:53:44 <gwillen> and look for the value of LOCALE
  67 2014-05-20 00:53:47 <gwillen> or LC_whatever
  68 2014-05-20 00:54:05 <Luke-Jr> mainly LANG
  69 2014-05-20 00:54:26 <shaileshg> gwillen: i have LC_CTYPE=UTF-8
  70 2014-05-20 00:54:36 <Luke-Jr> shaileshg: LANG is what you'd probably want to look for
  71 2014-05-20 00:54:37 <shaileshg> LANG=C
  72 2014-05-20 00:54:40 <Luke-Jr> hm
  73 2014-05-20 00:54:42 <Luke-Jr> that's fine
  74 2014-05-20 00:54:45 <shaileshg> Luke-Jr: ^
  75 2014-05-20 00:54:58 <Luke-Jr> I'm not sure LC_CTYPE=UTF-8 is valid
  76 2014-05-20 00:55:09 <shaileshg> how to unset it?
  77 2014-05-20 00:55:17 <Luke-Jr> unset LC_CTYPE
  78 2014-05-20 00:55:24 <Luke-Jr> how did you get it set to that in the first place? >_<
  79 2014-05-20 00:55:38 <Luke-Jr> valid would be something like en_GB.utf8
  80 2014-05-20 00:56:09 <gwillen> thanks Luke-Jr, I forgot about LANG
  81 2014-05-20 00:56:24 <shaileshg> Luke-Jr: don't know. either it was there or got set up following some internet advice..
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  83 2014-05-20 00:57:18 <shaileshg> Luke-Jr: thnks.. its working now :)
  84 2014-05-20 00:57:22 <shaileshg> unset it
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  86 2014-05-20 00:59:43 <shaileshg> Luke-Jr: but there is a problem.. its set only in the current session.. i ssh'ed from other terminal and its complaining again.. how to unset it permanently?
  87 2014-05-20 00:59:49 <shaileshg> *unset
  88 2014-05-20 01:01:30 <gwillen> shaileshg: you will need to find in your startup files where it gets set
  89 2014-05-20 01:01:39 <shaileshg> gwillen: hmm
  90 2014-05-20 01:01:45 <gwillen> shaileshg: check in your home directory in .profile, .bash_profile, .bashrc
  91 2014-05-20 01:01:50 <gwillen> see if it's set in any of those or anything like that
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 101 2014-05-20 01:14:36 <shaileshg> gwillen: i m running this bitcoind client in testnet=1 mode
 102 2014-05-20 01:14:46 <shaileshg> however, its not downloading the test blockchain
 103 2014-05-20 01:14:59 <shaileshg> as bitcoind getblockcount is returning 0
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 105 2014-05-20 01:15:18 <gwillen> hm, I've never actually run on testnet, so I don't know anything about setting it up, sorry
 106 2014-05-20 01:15:27 <gwillen> hopefully someone else will come by who knows more
 107 2014-05-20 01:15:29 <shaileshg> gwillen: hmm
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 117 2014-05-20 01:25:54 <gmaxwell> shesek: sometimes it just takes a while to get connected to testnet... if you leave it be it will get going eventually.
 118 2014-05-20 01:25:58 <gmaxwell> er shaileshg
 119 2014-05-20 01:26:10 <gmaxwell> there just aren't that many working testnet nodes.
 120 2014-05-20 01:26:20 <shaileshg> gmaxwell: oh.. okay
 121 2014-05-20 01:26:43 <shaileshg> coz when i commented out testnet=1, it started syncing from mainnet
 122 2014-05-20 01:26:59 <shaileshg> so, will wait till afternoon to see if testnet is working then
 123 2014-05-20 01:27:03 <gmaxwell> sure mainnet will connect much faster generally.
 124 2014-05-20 01:27:07 <shaileshg> right
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 127 2014-05-20 01:28:01 <shaileshg> but one more thing.. i am running bitcoind client on my local machine and its downloading blockchain from testnet, but client running on server is not doing so
 128 2014-05-20 01:28:51 <shaileshg> gmaxwell: ^
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 388 2014-05-20 05:52:55 <wumpus> anyone with the boost locale problem at startup, cherry-pick 5248ff4 (pull #4174), it should  solve it
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 448 2014-05-20 06:57:21 <michagogo> shaileshg: try running getconnectioncount
 449 2014-05-20 06:57:30 <michagogo> Does it return more than 0?
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 506 2014-05-20 07:41:54 <aschildbach> petertodd: are you there?
 507 2014-05-20 07:42:07 <kostaz> "BN_bin2bn("0", 1, &bn); cout << BN_bn2hex(&bn);" prints "30" - please help to understand.
 508 2014-05-20 07:42:33 <kostaz> Can't find good example for OpenSSL BIGNUM out there...
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 510 2014-05-20 07:43:13 <sipa> kostaz: the digit 0 is the 48th character
 511 2014-05-20 07:43:25 <sipa> which is 30 in hex
 512 2014-05-20 07:43:41 <sipa> this is not programming 101 though
 513 2014-05-20 07:44:04 <kostaz> well, zero is zero always...
 514 2014-05-20 07:44:10 * Luke-Jr facepalms
 515 2014-05-20 07:44:23 <Luke-Jr> kostaz: first visit ##C, then #openssl
 516 2014-05-20 07:44:40 <kostaz> Thanks, Luke-Jr. Going there...
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 631 2014-05-20 09:33:52 <Diablo-D3> https://speakerdeck.com/ange/when-aes-equals-episode-v
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 775 2014-05-20 11:49:26 <volante> in the bitcoin core source code there are ui files src/qt/forms/*.ui.  what software do I use to edit these forms?
 776 2014-05-20 11:49:50 <volante> im on debian
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 779 2014-05-20 11:50:22 <buZz> qt designer, iirc
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 786 2014-05-20 11:52:14 <volante> ahh perfect, thanks
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 798 2014-05-20 12:06:43 <wumpus> qt creator will also work, you can open the contrib/bitcoin-qt.pro to get a list of resources and ui files
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 801 2014-05-20 12:10:22 <volante> does anyone have the issue on linux where the debug window doesn't have a title bar or controls for closing it?
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 803 2014-05-20 12:11:18 <danielpbarron> "on linux" << which one??
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 808 2014-05-20 12:14:39 <volante> debian
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 814 2014-05-20 12:20:22 <volante> here is what i mean: http://i.imgur.com/NJku1bJ.png
 815 2014-05-20 12:20:29 <volante> there's no button to close the window
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 822 2014-05-20 12:30:51 <buZz> volante: do you have the problem in other windowmanagers aswell? or just this one?
 823 2014-05-20 12:31:21 <buZz> also, which window manager is this?
 824 2014-05-20 12:32:19 <buZz> oh, i think its gnome-shell?
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 826 2014-05-20 12:33:08 <volante> im not sure, i'm just running whatever the default is for debian.  i think it's just stock gnome
 827 2014-05-20 12:33:17 <volante> i haven't tried another window manager
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 829 2014-05-20 12:33:33 <buZz> no, its gnome-shell
 830 2014-05-20 12:33:36 <buZz> i have it hear
 831 2014-05-20 12:33:42 <buZz> downloading qt thingy now
 832 2014-05-20 12:33:45 <buZz> here*
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 834 2014-05-20 12:35:09 <buZz> ./bitcoin-qt: /lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libc.so.6: version `GLIBC_2.15' not found (required by ./bitcoin-qt)
 835 2014-05-20 12:35:12 <buZz> pfff
 836 2014-05-20 12:35:22 <buZz> why no static compiles!
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 838 2014-05-20 12:35:32 <buZz> sorry, no , i am not going to compile qt
 839 2014-05-20 12:35:35 <arubi> for glibc?
 840 2014-05-20 12:35:45 <arubi> your version is old
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 856 2014-05-20 12:51:21 <berndj-blackout> volante, yes i've experienced that undismissable debug window thing; i can't remember how i got it to go away - i may have simply shut the client down entirely
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 860 2014-05-20 12:56:30 <michagogo> 15:32:58 <buZz> sorry, no , i am not going to compile qt <-- there's no need to do that... Either just use your distro's Qt package or download the static binaries
 861 2014-05-20 12:56:55 <volante> berndj-blackout: i can work around it by right-clicking which gives me an option to close it.  it'd be nice to fix it though. i'm still learning about qt so ill see if i can figure it out.
 862 2014-05-20 12:57:14 <michagogo> If you haven't already, file an issue
 863 2014-05-20 12:57:24 <buZz> static versions arent on https://bitcoin.org/en/download
 864 2014-05-20 12:57:26 <michagogo> (Or, if someone hasn't already)
 865 2014-05-20 12:57:39 <michagogo> buZz: no, they aren't
 866 2014-05-20 12:57:47 <buZz> so they dont exist
 867 2014-05-20 12:57:50 <buZz> to the user
 868 2014-05-20 12:57:54 <michagogo> If you look through the GH PRs, you can find a link
 869 2014-05-20 12:57:56 <volante> michagogo: ill take a look at github and file an issue if theres not one.  first i want to try to understand it a bit better though.
 870 2014-05-20 12:58:00 <berndj-blackout> volante, is it a modal window?
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 872 2014-05-20 12:58:40 <volante> erm im not even sure what that is.  it's rpcconsole.ui
 873 2014-05-20 12:58:44 <michagogo> buZz: yeah, they aren't in the release process yet
 874 2014-05-20 12:59:11 <michagogo> Or, they weren't as of 0.9
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 876 2014-05-20 12:59:20 <berndj-blackout> volante: a modal window is one that insists you interact with it and not the parent window
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 879 2014-05-20 12:59:50 <michagogo> In other words, you're locked out of the parent window until the modal closes
 880 2014-05-20 12:59:52 <volante> berndj-blackout: oh, no, it lets me interact with the main window underneath it
 881 2014-05-20 12:59:56 <michagogo> And I'm pretty sure it's not modal
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 883 2014-05-20 13:00:11 <michagogo> At least, it's definitey not on Windows
 884 2014-05-20 13:00:16 <michagogo> Definitely*
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 886 2014-05-20 13:00:53 <berndj-blackout> it was a few months ago so i can't remember clearly, but i think my debug window was behaving modally
 887 2014-05-20 13:01:19 <michagogo> berndj-blackout: maybe it changed at some point? *shrug*
 888 2014-05-20 13:01:23 <berndj-blackout> but i feel like i'm adding noise here, not signal - ignore me :)
 889 2014-05-20 13:02:02 <michagogo> But at least right now I know it's not modal
 890 2014-05-20 13:02:08 <buZz> imho the entire QT interface is noise to bitcoins signal
 891 2014-05-20 13:02:09 <buZz> but ok
 892 2014-05-20 13:02:49 <michagogo> How so?
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 896 2014-05-20 13:04:39 <buZz> michagogo: this is coming from someone who believe xorg solely exists to run xterm
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 898 2014-05-20 13:04:45 <buZz> +s
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 903 2014-05-20 13:08:40 <michagogo> buZz: not entirely sure what that is
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 907 2014-05-20 13:10:14 <buZz> ok
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 946 2014-05-20 13:24:07 <helo> xorg solely exists to run marathons
 947 2014-05-20 13:24:21 <helo> oh, this isn't -otc, apologies
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 959 2014-05-20 13:30:47 <crunk-ju_> anyone know the IP & Port of the node that http://blockexplorer.com/testnet uses?
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 970 2014-05-20 13:40:37 <helo> afaik it uses more than one
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 982 2014-05-20 13:50:29 <crunk-ju_> Is there a list of them anywhere?
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 986 2014-05-20 13:51:43 <michagogo> crunk-ju_: do you mean, the node that is directly connected to the site?
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 988 2014-05-20 13:52:06 <michagogo> As in, the node that information needs to reach to go on the site?
 989 2014-05-20 13:52:07 <crunk-ju_> I'm using bitcoinj and need some nodes to connect to on testnet.
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 991 2014-05-20 13:52:12 <michagogo> crunk-ju_: ahh
 992 2014-05-20 13:52:24 <michagogo> In that case, I can tell you one one I know
 993 2014-05-20 13:52:34 <michagogo> of*
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 996 2014-05-20 13:52:52 <michagogo> cadoth.net should be up on testnet, ipv4 and ipv6
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1003 2014-05-20 13:55:19 <crunk-ju_> is it the usual port?
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1008 2014-05-20 13:56:22 <hearn> crunk-ju_: do you know about regtest mode?
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1012 2014-05-20 13:57:50 <crunk-ju_> i'm working on a mobile app. I don't have access to my node at the moment.
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1014 2014-05-20 13:58:25 <crunk-ju_> would anyone be interested in testing a new bitcoin android wallet?
1015 2014-05-20 13:59:08 <sipa> an SPV client?
1016 2014-05-20 13:59:28 <crunk-ju_> yes. It's security focused
1017 2014-05-20 13:59:54 <hearn> crunk-ju_: you should read this article: http://bitcoinj.github.io/testing#regression-test-mode
1018 2014-05-20 14:00:04 <hearn> crunk-ju_: it will make your work a LOT easier if you aren’t waiting around for public testnet
1019 2014-05-20 14:00:17 <hearn> crunk-ju_: and yes i’d be interested to see it! btw there is also a #bitcoinj channel if you like
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1021 2014-05-20 14:00:52 <michagogo> crunk-ju_: yes, 18333 afaik
1022 2014-05-20 14:00:53 <crunk-ju_> awesome Mike!
1023 2014-05-20 14:01:26 <crunk-ju_> if you wan't me to send you an APK, just email me at bojan@bitcoinsecurityproject.org
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1025 2014-05-20 14:01:41 <crunk-ju_> you can find out more about the wallet at AegisWallet.com
1026 2014-05-20 14:02:04 <crunk-ju_> will be open source and all that :)
1027 2014-05-20 14:02:23 ajweiss has joined
1028 2014-05-20 14:03:03 <SomeoneWeird> "bitcoinsecurityproject"
1029 2014-05-20 14:03:04 <SomeoneWeird> heh
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1032 2014-05-20 14:04:56 azariah has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
1033 2014-05-20 14:05:10 * hearn looks at the website
1034 2014-05-20 14:05:12 <pierre`> crunk-ju_: lol @your website
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1036 2014-05-20 14:05:20 <crunk-ju_> work in progress :)
1037 2014-05-20 14:06:27 <hearn> security level, 110% :)
1038 2014-05-20 14:06:28 ajweiss has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1039 2014-05-20 14:06:31 <hearn> taking it to eleven, great
1040 2014-05-20 14:06:34 <pierre`> if you want to to some security, i don't think the best solution is to put a provide articles with 3-4 very basic principes of common senses
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1042 2014-05-20 14:07:25 <pierre`> give missions to expert people who are working in this domain is the best solution, imho
1043 2014-05-20 14:07:33 <hearn> the UI looks nice
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1045 2014-05-20 14:07:52 <hearn> when do you think you’ll release to beta?
1046 2014-05-20 14:08:07 <crunk-ju_> I hope to release it on the Play store in < 10 days
1047 2014-05-20 14:08:11 <hearn> btw - about the icon. some people (like me) can’t easily see the difference between green and red
1048 2014-05-20 14:08:13 <crunk-ju_> just testing the heck out of it for now
1049 2014-05-20 14:08:24 <crunk-ju_> noted
1050 2014-05-20 14:08:33 <hearn> i don’t think it matters much for your UI because the little paper aeroplane icon makes things clear anyway
1051 2014-05-20 14:08:36 <hearn> just an fyi
1052 2014-05-20 14:08:49 <hearn> nice, i’ll try it out once it’s on the play store
1053 2014-05-20 14:08:55 <hearn> how have you found development?
1054 2014-05-20 14:09:03 <crunk-ju_> I've developed it myself
1055 2014-05-20 14:09:12 <hearn> are you on the bitcoinj list?
1056 2014-05-20 14:09:21 <crunk-ju_> nope.
1057 2014-05-20 14:09:57 <crunk-ju_> probably should be though.
1058 2014-05-20 14:10:15 <crunk-ju_> I've just had my nose buried in the code every spare moment I've had for the last couple of months.
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1060 2014-05-20 14:10:29 <hearn> yes please at least be on the announcements list
1061 2014-05-20 14:10:40 <hearn> you don’t have to pay attention to dev/user chatter, but it’s important you at least stay up to date and keep an eye on things
1062 2014-05-20 14:10:46 <crunk-ju_> If you have an Android device, I'm trying to get this thing tested on as many devices as I can.
1063 2014-05-20 14:10:51 <hearn> i have a nexus 5
1064 2014-05-20 14:11:05 Belxjander has joined
1065 2014-05-20 14:11:08 <crunk-ju_> I keep an eye on the bitcoin j github repo
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1068 2014-05-20 14:12:16 <hearn> ok
1069 2014-05-20 14:12:16 <crunk-ju_> if you or anyone you know want to test the app while it's on testnet, just let me know. I'll probably post it on the forums tomorrow.
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1073 2014-05-20 14:15:34 <crunk-ju_> if anyone attends the NYC bitdevs meetup, I'll be giving a demo tonight.
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1076 2014-05-20 14:16:37 <hearn> best of luck!
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1078 2014-05-20 14:17:02 <hearn> do you have any top pain points in bitcoinj, that would be interesting for me to know about?
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1080 2014-05-20 14:17:38 <crunk-ju_> not particularly. I haven't had many issues. Documentation is a pain tbh though.
1081 2014-05-20 14:18:07 ajweiss has joined
1082 2014-05-20 14:18:07 <crunk-ju_> but that's the case with most open source software...
1083 2014-05-20 14:18:15 <hearn> oh. and i wrote so much … :)
1084 2014-05-20 14:18:22 <hearn> what docs would be helpful?
1085 2014-05-20 14:19:36 <crunk-ju_> well in my case, it was tougher using it on the mobile platform. Luckily Andreas has his open source wallet so that was a bit helpful.
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1087 2014-05-20 14:20:17 <hearn> tougher in the sense of it being unclear how to integrate it with android?
1088 2014-05-20 14:20:29 <crunk-ju_> yes.
1089 2014-05-20 14:20:35 * michagogo waves to gavinandresen
1090 2014-05-20 14:21:02 <crunk-ju_> I also think it would be really cool to have a full example of creating a wallet, sending, receiving, and processing transactions.
1091 2014-05-20 14:21:30 <hearn> there is one for the desktop in wallet-template, in the source tree
1092 2014-05-20 14:21:31 <hearn> did you see that?
1093 2014-05-20 14:21:44 <hearn> also in the ForwardingService example app, in the getting started guide
1094 2014-05-20 14:21:53 <hearn> or do you mean, for android specifically
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1096 2014-05-20 14:22:46 <crunk-ju_> was that published recently?
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1098 2014-05-20 14:22:56 <hearn> was what published recently?
1099 2014-05-20 14:23:04 <crunk-ju_> the wallet-template
1100 2014-05-20 14:23:21 ajweiss has joined
1101 2014-05-20 14:23:43 <hearn> no
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1103 2014-05-20 14:23:48 <hearn> but it’s not really mentioned except in the source code
1104 2014-05-20 14:23:54 <hearn> there’s no doc talking about it. i should write one.
1105 2014-05-20 14:24:05 <hearn> i mean it was mentioned in the release notes when it was first integrated
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1108 2014-05-20 14:24:56 <volante_> anyone know if laanwj comes on irc?
1109 2014-05-20 14:25:06 <sipa> yes, as wumpus
1110 2014-05-20 14:25:24 <crunk-ju_> I wonder if java web developers would benefit from a Struts or Spring example of a wallet.
1111 2014-05-20 14:25:34 <volante_> sipa: on great. thanks.
1112 2014-05-20 14:25:43 <hearn> web wallets have to work quite differently to client side wallets. the support for them in bitcoinj isn’t as good
1113 2014-05-20 14:25:55 <hearn> browsers are very limited so you need a fully indexed block chain, which is a huge database
1114 2014-05-20 14:26:43 <hearn> however, writing an article showing off the wallet-template app is certainly possible and not too hard
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1120 2014-05-20 14:31:11 <crunk-ju_> i agree
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1123 2014-05-20 14:32:25 <hearn> i’d like to put a nice carousel of screenshots of programs made with bitcoinj on the website at some point
1124 2014-05-20 14:32:28 <hearn> show off what people have made
1125 2014-05-20 14:32:32 <hearn> wish i had more time :)
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1127 2014-05-20 14:32:49 <crunk-ju_> i hear you there
1128 2014-05-20 14:32:55 <crunk-ju_> i wish i could just work full time on bitcoin stuff
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1136 2014-05-20 14:35:56 <crunk-ju_> have you seen many good Java implementations of Shamir secret sharing?
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1143 2014-05-20 14:37:24 <hearn> crunk-ju_: never looked
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1146 2014-05-20 14:39:06 <crunk-ju_> i'm using one in my app. I'm going to have to get it reviewed by a couple more folks.
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1156 2014-05-20 14:44:15 <crunk-ju_> Are there any plans to add encryption of transactions and public addresses to the bitcoinj wallet object?
1157 2014-05-20 14:44:44 <hearn> for privacy? no plans at the moment though i think andreas and jim have both added this, so maybe they can be convinced to contribute it back
1158 2014-05-20 14:44:50 <hearn> on android though, it should not matter
1159 2014-05-20 14:44:55 <hearn> other apps can’t read your wallet anyway
1160 2014-05-20 14:45:04 <crunk-ju_> i know, but if the device gets stolen or something
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1164 2014-05-20 14:45:27 <crunk-ju_> if my wallet is encrypted, i don't have to worry about the person seeing who I'm sending money to
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1166 2014-05-20 14:45:58 <hearn> people who are worried about that tend to put a screen lock on their phone, and modern phones have disk encryption too
1167 2014-05-20 14:46:03 <hearn> so i’m not sure it’s so useful on mobile.
1168 2014-05-20 14:46:27 <crunk-ju_> i guess i'm just paranoid.
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1170 2014-05-20 14:47:28 <helo> even without encryption, it isn't easy to access an app's private data on a pattern-locked android phone
1171 2014-05-20 14:47:33 <hearn> well, your wallet does market itself as the most secure wallet … so i can see why you’d want to do that
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1174 2014-05-20 14:48:35 <crunk-ju_> I came up with what i think is a pretty creative solution for people forgetting their passwords. I'd like to hear your opinion on it.
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1178 2014-05-20 14:50:24 <crunk-ju_> When someone first installs the app, an encryption key is created. Using Shamir Secret Sharing, I create 3 shares for that key. 2 of them are necessary to re-create the original value.
1179 2014-05-20 14:51:15 <crunk-ju_> One share, S1, is stored on the device, The other, S2, is encrypted using the user's password, and the third, S3, is sent to a server.
1180 2014-05-20 14:52:27 <crunk-ju_> in the event that the user forgets their password, they can get their wallet back by providing the share that's stored on the device. I can then recreate the keys using their S1 and the S3 that was sent to the server.
1181 2014-05-20 14:52:45 <helo> let the user choose what to do with each of the three passwords
1182 2014-05-20 14:52:52 <helo> *keys
1183 2014-05-20 14:52:55 <hearn> crunk-ju_: you mean after verifying their identity in some way?
1184 2014-05-20 14:52:59 <crunk-ju_> yes
1185 2014-05-20 14:53:05 <hearn> how do you do that?
1186 2014-05-20 14:53:13 <crunk-ju_> still trying to figure that part out...
1187 2014-05-20 14:53:16 * hearn knows from bitter experience that a “forgot password” link rapidly turns into a giant project
1188 2014-05-20 14:53:21 <hearn> ahhh …
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1191 2014-05-20 14:53:50 <kjj> the traditional way to handle "forgot password" is to use the honor system
1192 2014-05-20 14:54:00 <crunk-ju_> hehe.
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1195 2014-05-20 14:54:45 <hearn> the google account recovery system requires an entire team of people and is a full blown knowledge quiz about the account, with heuristic risk analysis to detect fraudsters
1196 2014-05-20 14:55:18 <hearn> but yes it’s a neat idea
1197 2014-05-20 14:55:39 <hearn> unfortunately something else i know from experience is …. people often only realise they forgot their password when they lose their phone, buy a new one and have to set things back up
1198 2014-05-20 14:55:52 <hearn> still it’s better than what most wallets provide in this situation (nothing)
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1200 2014-05-20 14:56:12 <crunk-ju_> and they don't have to trust me if they don't want to.
1201 2014-05-20 14:56:26 <crunk-ju_> because I only hold one share and they have the other 2.
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1203 2014-05-20 14:56:35 <hearn> yeah
1204 2014-05-20 14:56:37 <hearn> it’s neat
1205 2014-05-20 14:56:55 <crunk-ju_> I think the best part about it is the NFC encryption
1206 2014-05-20 14:57:01 <hearn> touch a tag to unlock the device?
1207 2014-05-20 14:57:05 <crunk-ju_> ya
1208 2014-05-20 14:57:17 <crunk-ju_> well, to decrypt the wallet
1209 2014-05-20 14:57:17 <hearn> yeah it’s pretty cool if you can get a tag that attaches to your belt or something
1210 2014-05-20 14:57:24 <crunk-ju_> i have one on my keychain
1211 2014-05-20 14:57:26 <hearn> i suggested it to andreas a while ago but it wasn’t done yet
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1214 2014-05-20 14:57:36 <hearn> i’m really happy to see more wallet competition
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1216 2014-05-20 14:57:41 <hearn> i want there to be a thousand wallets :)
1217 2014-05-20 14:57:59 <crunk-ju_> in my app, the wallet is always encrypted, until you have to send a transaction or add more addresses.
1218 2014-05-20 14:58:27 <hearn> well, how does that work … how do you show the user their accurate balance, if the wallet is encrypted?
1219 2014-05-20 14:58:27 <crunk-ju_> the idea is if your phone gets stolen, they can't take your money.
1220 2014-05-20 14:58:33 <hearn> private key encryption does that
1221 2014-05-20 14:58:36 <hearn> oh, never mind
1222 2014-05-20 14:58:40 <crunk-ju_> :)
1223 2014-05-20 14:58:44 <hearn> that’s what you mean. not the earlier thing we were discussing
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1225 2014-05-20 14:58:49 <crunk-ju_> yup
1226 2014-05-20 14:59:12 <crunk-ju_> but i would like to add functionality to encrypt everything.
1227 2014-05-20 14:59:38 <crunk-ju_> I am also adding security alerts. So for example, if the user's phone supports full disk encryption and they don't have it turned on, I'll recommend it.
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1231 2014-05-20 15:00:37 <hearn> sounds good
1232 2014-05-20 15:00:47 <hearn> not sure if you can actually tell with the android API, but there might be a linux specific way to do that
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1234 2014-05-20 15:02:39 <crunk-ju_> I've done it before. I created an app for fun called Android Security Score
1235 2014-05-20 15:02:55 <crunk-ju_> where it just looks at various security settings on your phone and tells you which ones you don't have set.
1236 2014-05-20 15:03:08 <hearn> oh ok
1237 2014-05-20 15:03:16 <crunk-ju_> so for example, if you're using a patters VS a password, it gives you a lower score because patterns aren't as secure.
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1242 2014-05-20 15:08:10 <hearn> all sounds like you’ll carve yourself a nice niche there
1243 2014-05-20 15:08:22 <hearn> i’m looking forward to you contributing back to bitcoinj once you’re a bit more established ;)
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1253 2014-05-20 15:11:39 <crunk-ju_> thanks! i wish there was enough time to do all the coding I want to.
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1452 2014-05-20 17:26:12 <GAit> I am planning in using the memo field in the paymentprotocol/bip70 to both request instant confirmation and to provide a signature back as a proof. Any suggestion as to the encoding for both the request (which could be human readable) in the PaymentRequest  and the Payment message reply  (which could be encoded in some extensible structure or not) ?
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1457 2014-05-20 17:27:25 <sipa> GAit: there were some discussions about that before
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1459 2014-05-20 17:27:36 <sipa> iirc, utf8, but i'm not sure
1460 2014-05-20 17:27:37 <GAit> sipa: i'm so sad i didn't manage to meet you at the conf
1461 2014-05-20 17:27:45 <sipa> right!
1462 2014-05-20 17:27:51 <sipa> where were you? :)
1463 2014-05-20 17:28:02 <GAit> i think i even harassed a dude that somehow kinda looked like you, but then again i never met you
1464 2014-05-20 17:28:24 <sipa> i was there thu-fri-sat :)
1465 2014-05-20 17:28:29 <GAit> i was going rounds mad, so many people to meet non stop
1466 2014-05-20 17:28:35 <sipa> yeah :p
1467 2014-05-20 17:28:40 <GAit> i was there 14-18 all day
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1470 2014-05-20 17:29:54 <GAit> anyway, even if utf8, i could encode the signature in such a way that one could add data and not disrupt people that don't understand it, perhaps some versioning of the data structure or something
1471 2014-05-20 17:30:20 <GAit> some key value pair could work maybe
1472 2014-05-20 17:30:42 <Belxjander> GAit: ID+Length
1473 2014-05-20 17:30:55 <Belxjander> ID the data structure for initial base typing...
1474 2014-05-20 17:31:01 <Belxjander> and the length can double as versioning
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1476 2014-05-20 17:31:33 <sipa> i think the idea of more formatting/structure suggestions are premature
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1479 2014-05-20 17:32:03 <GAit> we don't use it unless explicitly asked from the merchant which sets a flag in the memo field in the initial handshaking
1480 2014-05-20 17:32:11 <GAit> merchant or anyhow otherside
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1482 2014-05-20 17:32:58 <Belxjander> sipa: well I would only suggest consideration of IFF/RIFF "block" chunking whatever format is decided upon and having chunks based on "common data" elements all together
1483 2014-05-20 17:33:03 <GAit> would using json be too bad?
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1488 2014-05-20 17:34:29 <Belxjander> then any "extension"s can be chunk IDs that can be filtered into processing or filtered into ignored lists and either unknown/strip or unknown/ignore and known/process as three options
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1498 2014-05-20 17:39:02 <gavinandresen> GAit : don't abuse the memo field for a signature, protocol buffers are easily extensible. Add another field (in whatever message makes sense).
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1505 2014-05-20 17:42:47 <GAit> gavinandresen: thanks! we didn't think of that.
1506 2014-05-20 17:43:39 <sipa> that makes sense if it's a private extension, where you control both client and server software
1507 2014-05-20 17:43:46 <sipa> otherwise it's asking for compatibility problems
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1509 2014-05-20 17:45:21 <gavinandresen> sipa: hmm?  protocol buffers are designed so that if you don't understand an extension you just ignore it
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1513 2014-05-20 17:46:54 <sipa> gavinandresen: right, sure
1514 2014-05-20 17:47:17 <sipa> gavinandresen: i mean, if correctness of your system relies on the field being present/processed, you can't just make it optional
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1517 2014-05-20 17:48:14 <gavinandresen> sipa: mmm.  But encoding into the memo field would just be a hack that wouldn't help with that problem.
1518 2014-05-20 17:49:28 <hearn> sipa: you can just reject it/throw an error
1519 2014-05-20 17:49:34 <hearn> encoding machine readable stuff into the memo field is wrong wrong wrong
1520 2014-05-20 17:49:48 <hearn> i wonder if BIP70 should be clearer on this point? i thought it was obvious, given how protobufs worked, but ....
1521 2014-05-20 17:49:49 <sipa> agree
1522 2014-05-20 17:50:11 <sipa> but different people adding extensions without coordination won't work either
1523 2014-05-20 17:50:18 <hearn> that’s why there’s a process to coordinate :)
1524 2014-05-20 17:50:39 <sipa> right, but if it requires a new bip to add a field, it's not really a private extension anymore :)
1525 2014-05-20 17:50:44 <sipa> which is what i'm saying
1526 2014-05-20 17:51:07 <gavinandresen> "Implementations that need to extend messages in this specification shall use tags starting at 1000, and shall update the extensions page via pull-req to avoid conflicts with other extensions."
1527 2014-05-20 17:51:15 <gavinandresen> … no need for a BIP
1528 2014-05-20 17:51:22 <gavinandresen> … unless you want to inter-operate
1529 2014-05-20 17:51:44 <sipa> maybe add a suggestion that private extensions could use the unix timestamp as tag number :)
1530 2014-05-20 17:52:14 <gavinandresen> as long as you don't use 1,111 I'll be happy.
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1535 2014-05-20 17:53:38 <hearn> for the lighthouse extensions i was planning on writing a BIP and just using the next available tag numbers. i think the 1000+ tag numbers make sense for private extensions. for public extensions that are properly specified we may as well just use the regular numbers
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1537 2014-05-20 17:53:56 <sipa> right, indeed
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1548 2014-05-20 17:59:05 <hearn> Luke-Jr: any idea what’s up with your DNS seed? seems the config is broken.
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1555 2014-05-20 18:02:39 <michagogo> Maybe have a few ranges
1556 2014-05-20 18:02:51 <michagogo> One range for new extensions that come in through BIP
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1558 2014-05-20 18:03:32 <michagogo> One range for extensions that anyone can add to, with information about what it is
1559 2014-05-20 18:03:40 <michagogo> Just a "take it or leave it" kind of thing
1560 2014-05-20 18:04:11 <michagogo> One range for private extensions, where all you do is mention who you are and which numbers you're taking
1561 2014-05-20 18:04:35 <michagogo> And then a range that's completely unlisted, a "use at your own risk" kind of thing
1562 2014-05-20 18:05:06 <michagogo> So if you really want to do stuff that you don't want to share with anyone, you can use that 4th one
1563 2014-05-20 18:06:29 <hearn> seems overkill
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1597 2014-05-20 18:32:47 <jgarzik> new .NET reference implementation of bitcoin, unknown quality.  https://github.com/NicolasDorier/NBitcoin
1598 2014-05-20 18:33:07 <michagogo> "new reference implementation"?
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1602 2014-05-20 18:37:01 <hearn> an impressively large quantity of code
1603 2014-05-20 18:37:13 <hearn> although a notable lack of comments
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1605 2014-05-20 18:38:46 <sipa> the script implementation looks to follow the core code very closely in structure
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1665 2014-05-20 19:29:56 <Diablo-D3> https://weev.livejournal.com/405848.html?nojs=1
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1755 2014-05-20 20:28:40 <richcollins> has anyone figured how to connect to testnet3?
1756 2014-05-20 20:28:47 <richcollins> dns seeds are down?
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1763 2014-05-20 20:31:50 <helo> richcollins: cadoth.net
1764 2014-05-20 20:32:15 <helo> richcollins: i.e. addnode cadoth.net
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1793 2014-05-20 20:55:17 <BlueMatt> did anyone bother filing a bug for different curves in the web crypto bugzilla
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1841 2014-05-20 21:24:16 <JackH> what happens if a large number of transactions stay within the network without being included in the block? say 100 million very very small transactions that never get included (due to miners not accepting them)
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1850 2014-05-20 21:27:57 <arubi> JackH, the way I see it, any transaction relayed by the network and not yet in a block, is in the memory pool
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1852 2014-05-20 21:28:47 <arubi> what are the rules enforced on a tx one it's in the mempool? I'm not sure.. interesting question..
1853 2014-05-20 21:28:55 <arubi> s/one/once
1854 2014-05-20 21:29:46 <JackH> from my understanding the transactions still get relayed, included or not included in blocks
1855 2014-05-20 21:30:24 <arubi> there's a limit though, once a tx is in the mempool, there's no reason to relay it to any more nodes
1856 2014-05-20 21:31:06 <JackH> ah so there is a relay limit? on the bitcoind?
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1860 2014-05-20 21:32:05 <arubi> I'm not saying there's a limit because I'm not sure, but if a tx is already in the pool, why should a node relay it to other nodes?
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1863 2014-05-20 21:32:46 <arubi> miners already know about it and can decide for themselves if it's valid or not.
1864 2014-05-20 21:33:33 <jgarzik> JackH, there are of course relay limits, otherwise you could easily DoS the network
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1867 2014-05-20 21:34:34 <JackH> but the memory pool also has limits I assume
1868 2014-05-20 21:35:44 <arubi> 656 tx's in mempool right now
1869 2014-05-20 21:36:03 <arubi> is there a limit? never though of that
1870 2014-05-20 21:36:24 <JackH> well hopefully there is not
1871 2014-05-20 21:36:44 cbeams has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
1872 2014-05-20 21:36:44 <JackH> otherwise someone could as I said spam it with million of junk transactions and block any new transactions
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1874 2014-05-20 21:37:31 <arubi> right, but invalids will be cleared once in 10 minutes on average? right?
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1876 2014-05-20 21:38:11 <JackH> that doesnt make sense, since some transactions take days to get included, thus they must be staying idle in the mempool
1877 2014-05-20 21:38:59 <sipa> there is no limit on the mempool
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1879 2014-05-20 21:39:14 <sipa> but every transaction in it requires unspent outputs being consumed
1880 2014-05-20 21:39:27 <arubi> are invalid tx's cleared from mempool over time sipa?
1881 2014-05-20 21:39:38 <sipa> invalid transactions don't enter the mempool
1882 2014-05-20 21:39:40 <JackH> so how is mempool handled by the clients? say I spam with 100 million transactions?
1883 2014-05-20 21:39:50 <jgarzik> arubi, invalid TXs never enter mempool in first place
1884 2014-05-20 21:39:50 <sipa> then you need 100 million unspent outputs
1885 2014-05-20 21:40:09 <jgarzik> with associated fees
1886 2014-05-20 21:40:14 <arubi> I see, nodes only relay valids
1887 2014-05-20 21:40:18 <sipa> the relay policies make it quite hard to blow up the mempool without spending high amounts of fees
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1889 2014-05-20 21:40:36 <arubi> that's smart
1890 2014-05-20 21:40:54 <JackH> wait, why fees? if I send you 0.0000001 btc and I do that to another 99 million people, what prevents the  mempool from getting clogged up?
1891 2014-05-20 21:41:00 <arubi> so "light clients" with no blockchain do not relay txs on the network?
1892 2014-05-20 21:41:14 <jgarzik> arubi, they can if they wish
1893 2014-05-20 21:41:25 <jgarzik> JackH, fees
1894 2014-05-20 21:41:25 <sipa> JackH: you can't send me 0.00000001 BTC without sending a few hundred satoshi fee with it
1895 2014-05-20 21:41:32 <arubi> but the can's know if it's valid or not jgarzik ?
1896 2014-05-20 21:41:59 <sipa> they can't
1897 2014-05-20 21:42:07 <sipa> and they don't relay
1898 2014-05-20 21:42:08 <JackH> hmm, was this correction made in 0.8?
1899 2014-05-20 21:42:08 <arubi> yea, sorry for the typos
1900 2014-05-20 21:42:11 <JackH> or 9?
1901 2014-05-20 21:42:12 <arubi> oh
1902 2014-05-20 21:42:16 <sipa> JackH: 0.3 or so
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1904 2014-05-20 21:42:22 <JackH> oh...
1905 2014-05-20 21:42:26 <JackH> something I missed there
1906 2014-05-20 21:42:33 <JackH> I thought sending 1 satoshi was possible
1907 2014-05-20 21:42:38 <sipa> it is valid
1908 2014-05-20 21:42:47 <sipa> but such a transaction won't be relayed
1909 2014-05-20 21:42:53 <sipa> or accepted in the mempool
1910 2014-05-20 21:42:56 <sipa> it would be considered spam
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1912 2014-05-20 21:43:07 <sipa> it's valid inside a block though
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1915 2014-05-20 21:43:21 <JackH> yeah well, thats different
1916 2014-05-20 21:43:35 <JackH> alright, just wanted to know. guess I skipped the lesson of mempool spamming
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1918 2014-05-20 21:44:44 <JackH> I wish there was a super thorough transaction explanation somewhere, taking everything into account, from tx to fees to spam, to mempool etc
1919 2014-05-20 21:45:04 <JackH> information seems a bit spread, and most explanations miss out on certain points
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1922 2014-05-20 21:45:37 <jgarzik> SWINTL - Say What I Need To Learn.  We all want the doc that gives precisely that, and no more :)
1923 2014-05-20 21:45:38 <sipa> well, basically, there is a fee per byte of blockchain space
1924 2014-05-20 21:45:47 <jgarzik> readers version of DWIM
1925 2014-05-20 21:45:50 <sipa> with some exceptions
1926 2014-05-20 21:46:08 <JackH> haha jgarzik
1927 2014-05-20 21:46:11 <sipa> of course, not all nodes agree on what that fee is exactly, and wallet implementations overshoot
1928 2014-05-20 21:46:15 <JackH> yeah gods handbook, k, thx
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1933 2014-05-20 21:47:46 <JackH> I found explaining bitcoin to people outside the tech industry today to be quite difficult
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1936 2014-05-20 21:48:09 <JackH> I lost myself into details, came out short on some issues and in general felt like lacking to explain it fully
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1939 2014-05-20 21:49:12 <jgarzik> JackH, "register of ownership" -> "digital cash"
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1941 2014-05-20 21:49:23 <JackH> you cant start like that
1942 2014-05-20 21:49:36 <JackH> you also cant be hard on - this was a bank btw.
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1944 2014-05-20 21:50:11 <JackH> I think that I will stay away from the whole mining/block-chain from now on though
1945 2014-05-20 21:50:22 <JackH> its just impossible to cram it into a conversation
1946 2014-05-20 21:50:59 <JackH> has to be explained as if you explain it to children, but then one has to skip the obvious benefits of it
1947 2014-05-20 21:51:20 <JackH> quite frustrating
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1961 2014-05-20 21:58:19 <coryfields> warren: ping
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1983 2014-05-20 22:10:31 <warren> coryfields: hey
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1985 2014-05-20 22:11:01 <coryfields> warren: got a few min to do some builds and compare hashes?
1986 2014-05-20 22:11:07 <warren> coryfields: yes
1987 2014-05-20 22:11:22 <coryfields> ok, give me a few min to push some changes
1988 2014-05-20 22:11:29 <warren> coryfields: any idea what extraneous thing might be leaking into the build?
1989 2014-05-20 22:11:31 viajero has joined
1990 2014-05-20 22:12:15 <coryfields> warren: no, but i need the interim tarballs to track it down
1991 2014-05-20 22:12:43 <warren> coryfields: all the intermediate deps are identical to yours
1992 2014-05-20 22:12:51 <coryfields> and we need to be sure we're building from the exact same bitcoin commit
1993 2014-05-20 22:12:51 <warren> only the end bitcoin-qt.dmg is different
1994 2014-05-20 22:13:02 <warren> coryfields: did you read my ticket? I was very detailed there
1995 2014-05-20 22:13:28 <warren> coryfields: I provide build logs, binaries, hashes and the alternate base image that exhibits the problem
1996 2014-05-20 22:13:41 <coryfields> warren: i don't see the commit you built from, though
1997 2014-05-20 22:13:43 viajero has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1998 2014-05-20 22:13:58 <warren> coryfields: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/4189
1999 2014-05-20 22:14:00 ajweiss has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2000 2014-05-20 22:14:04 <warren> it's all in here
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2002 2014-05-20 22:15:05 <warren> it's deterministic when using the same base image ...
2003 2014-05-20 22:15:14 <warren> but extraneous things in the base image shouldn't affect the output
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2007 2014-05-20 22:17:36 <coryfields> warren: could you please just help me out a bit and tell me what commit you built from? I'd rather not trawl through logs and disk images just to find it
2008 2014-05-20 22:18:20 <warren> coryfields: dude, the last commit hash in 4189
2009 2014-05-20 22:18:30 <warren> 0173fa15c4301cbd3079944023ac7c5c0c37a5a7
2010 2014-05-20 22:19:07 <warren> coryfields: in your bitcoin/.git/config add this:
2011 2014-05-20 22:19:08 <warren> [remote "origin"]
2012 2014-05-20 22:19:08 <warren>         url = git://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin.git
2013 2014-05-20 22:19:09 <warren>         fetch = +refs/heads/*:refs/remotes/origin/*
2014 2014-05-20 22:19:09 <warren>         fetch = +refs/pull/*/head:refs/remotes/origin/pr/*
2015 2014-05-20 22:19:11 <warren> git fetch origin
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2017 2014-05-20 22:19:19 <warren> git checkout origin/pr/4189
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2020 2014-05-20 22:20:14 <warren> this is very handy because it lets you easily checkout any PR
2021 2014-05-20 22:20:48 <coryfields> warren: give me some credit. I wanted to verify that you were building from the committed descriptors. During my dev process, I don't do that, so it's easy to make mistakes that way.
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2023 2014-05-20 22:21:26 <lianj> warren: git remote rename origin github
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2026 2014-05-20 22:23:38 <warren> coryfields: Sorry, I thought it was strongly implied that I used the tip of that PR.
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2029 2014-05-20 22:24:32 <warren> lianj: good point
2030 2014-05-20 22:24:44 <coryfields> warren: no. each commit to bitcoin will change the dmg's hash. so it doesn't make sense to build from the tip when testing for determinism. rather, it's much easier to use uncommitted descriptors
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2035 2014-05-20 22:25:40 <warren> coryfields: we're clear now.  The point I made in 4189 is there's at least two problems.
2036 2014-05-20 22:25:50 <warren> the win upgrade to qt-5.2.1 is fine though
2037 2014-05-20 22:27:19 <coryfields> ok
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2045 2014-05-20 22:33:08 <coryfields> warren: rebuilding qt now
2046 2014-05-20 22:33:33 <coryfields> warren: i'll pm you when finished to avoid flooding here
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2070 2014-05-20 22:46:40 <Burrito> anyone running a testnet node that a #bitcoin -er can connect to?
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2073 2014-05-20 22:48:40 <Burrito> nvm, think I found one
2074 2014-05-20 22:49:06 <dhill> Burrito: 54.243.211.176:18333
2075 2014-05-20 22:50:01 ajweiss has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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2077 2014-05-20 22:53:30 <dhill> anyone know what Dain is?
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2152 2014-05-20 23:55:26 <ryan-c> Burrito: Hey, I will try to have that reed solomon code updated on github this weekend.
2153 2014-05-20 23:55:53 <Burrito> ryan-c, thanks :)
2154 2014-05-20 23:56:07 nick___ has joined
2155 2014-05-20 23:56:11 Adlai` is now known as Adlai
2156 2014-05-20 23:56:15 <Burrito> I thought about reminding you today and yesterday, but I have no reason I can't wait until the weekend
2157 2014-05-20 23:56:23 <ryan-c> anyone know of a way to receive a stream of unconfirmed transactions without relying on something like blockchain.info?
2158 2014-05-20 23:56:29 posita has joined
2159 2014-05-20 23:57:19 <ryan-c> can bitcore be made to do that?
2160 2014-05-20 23:57:37 OneMiner has joined
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2164 2014-05-20 23:59:06 <ryan-c> or bitcoinjs-server?
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