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  25 2014-05-23 00:39:45 <maaku> I rebased the CMoney type pull request (#4067) against master. This pull request is a bitch to rebase (that's why it is suggested for bitcoin core), so any reviews would be most welcome
  26 2014-05-23 00:39:59 <maaku> I'll swap reviews if someone has a PR they need some eyes on
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 192 2014-05-23 03:38:40 <shibeKBVE> Hey guys
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 199 2014-05-23 03:43:07 <shibeKBVE> Have you guys checked out, https://apicoin.io/?
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 210 2014-05-23 03:50:20 <poutine> shibeKBVE, Looks like a site devoid of any meaningful information on what exactly it is that they do...
 211 2014-05-23 03:52:56 <shibeKBVE> I just found this documentation, https://apicoin.io/api/v1/doc/
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 241 2014-05-23 05:07:17 <michagogo> davout: pretty sure redeemscript is the sPK
 242 2014-05-23 05:08:11 <michagogo> Oh, no, nvm
 243 2014-05-23 05:08:33 <michagogo> you can get it from getrawtransaction or decoderawtransaction
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 293 2014-05-23 06:19:17 <gigamike>  hello, anyone around :)
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 296 2014-05-23 06:20:29 <michagogo> gigamike: nah, the 506 users in this channel are fakes
 297 2014-05-23 06:20:32 <michagogo> :P
 298 2014-05-23 06:20:40 <gigamike> lol
 299 2014-05-23 06:21:06 <justanotheruser> michagogo: 506? Wow, it's shrunk!
 300 2014-05-23 06:21:37 <michagogo> justanotheruser: don't you have the number in your client?
 301 2014-05-23 06:22:05 <justanotheruser> michagogo: If I scroll us enough or google the command in IRSSI to find that out :P
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 303 2014-05-23 06:22:54 <michagogo> Ah, I just have it displayed on the userlist
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 306 2014-05-23 06:24:33 <gigamike> guys, maybe you can give me a suggestion. I have a site which i send payouts through BTC. I pull a computation on my DB and pay...question, what if my db was hacked, what's the best solution that im making sure im sending a correct computed payouts...sorry for looooong text lol :)
 307 2014-05-23 06:26:12 <justanotheruser> gigamike: very frequent backups? I may not understand the question
 308 2014-05-23 06:27:08 <gigamike> i see
 309 2014-05-23 06:27:28 <Arnavion> What do you mean by "correct" computed payouts?
 310 2014-05-23 06:28:09 <gigamike> some hackers are real good that they manipulate data that you as admin dont notice that they edit data and hence computation is altered, you know what i mean
 311 2014-05-23 06:28:18 <Arnavion> I know what hacking means
 312 2014-05-23 06:28:24 <Arnavion> I'm asking what you define as "correct"
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 314 2014-05-23 06:28:39 <Arnavion> Does that mean the value / recipient of the payout is what you expected it to be?
 315 2014-05-23 06:28:43 <Arnavion> or something else
 316 2014-05-23 06:28:51 <gigamike> ok, let say my computation is based on percentage for sales on payouts
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 318 2014-05-23 06:29:11 <gigamike> then hacker manipulate data
 319 2014-05-23 06:29:34 <Dizzle> gigamike: in an enterprise environment, you might have every transaction going to some kind of pubsub. One of the subscribers to this pubsub might put all the transactions and small numbers in an append-only log. Another subscriber might do the calculation for a derived number that is later written to the DB (and potentially an append-only log). These logs could then be played back to see if derived numbers matc
 320 2014-05-23 06:29:34 <Dizzle> h whats in the db. The hacker in this scenario has a much bigger task ahead of him or her.
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 322 2014-05-23 06:29:36 <gigamike> they manipulate via altering db
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 325 2014-05-23 06:31:11 <Dizzle> Though, in the pubsub scenario, if the hacker suddenly gains publish-access, they could cause some real damage, but the numbers would probably add up at least :)
 326 2014-05-23 06:31:27 <gigamike> oks oks
 327 2014-05-23 06:31:32 <Arnavion> So you're asking how to detect someone ran ```UPDATE payouts SET payout = 100 * payout``` on your DB?
 328 2014-05-23 06:31:40 <Arnavion> The answer is to not let them do that
 329 2014-05-23 06:31:50 <Arnavion> and as Dizzle said, maintain a separate ledger of updates to said DB
 330 2014-05-23 06:32:08 <wumpus> <gigamike> they manipulate via altering db <- if 'they' own your DB, you're screwed in any way
 331 2014-05-23 06:32:11 <gigamike> @arnavion, you are right, im trying to explain it to my client, that's the best solution not to be hacked
 332 2014-05-23 06:32:55 <Arnavion> And as justanotheruser said, always have a backup to restore to
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 334 2014-05-23 06:33:05 <gigamike> even i do some manual check if i depend on db then its useless to manually check
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 336 2014-05-23 06:33:18 <Dizzle> gigamike: if your application is on AWS, SNS and SQS make a pretty easy pubsub model to work with. It's a *little* expensive to keep polling the queues if you aren't getting many transactions at first, mind you.
 337 2014-05-23 06:34:12 <wumpus> isolate the critical parts of the database apart from the less important ones on a secure server, tightly control access to that and which operations can be done by who, keep frequent reliable backups, and still write auditing tools that check everything periodically
 338 2014-05-23 06:35:04 <gigamike> @wumpus...auditing tools...nice :)
 339 2014-05-23 06:35:18 stonecoldpat has joined
 340 2014-05-23 06:35:38 <gigamike> guys many thanks for the help :)
 341 2014-05-23 06:36:26 <Dizzle> Thanks for trying not to be the next MagicalTux.
 342 2014-05-23 06:36:32 <wumpus> yes :)
 343 2014-05-23 06:36:41 <Arnavion> Is that the mongodb guy?
 344 2014-05-23 06:36:46 <Arnavion> Was*
 345 2014-05-23 06:36:53 <michagogo> That's the MtGox guy
 346 2014-05-23 06:36:58 <Arnavion> Oh right
 347 2014-05-23 06:37:26 <Arnavion> So many fails in the bitcoin world. Hard to keep them all apart in my head
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 350 2014-05-23 06:39:22 <wumpus> frequent an early failing is good, it keept people on edge instead of putting too much trust in a single actor
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 354 2014-05-23 06:43:51 <Dizzle> gigamike: not to keep us on the off-topic from bitcoin core discussion, but here's another thing to consider when trying to not to get your DB hacked: https://s3.amazonaws.com/dizzle/dont-use-php-2014-05-23.png
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 356 2014-05-23 06:44:38 <Dizzle> That's what it looks like when I turn on security exception emails for an app on just about any public IP out there.
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 421 2014-05-23 07:36:34 <dizko> ^^^   yea controlling very carefully how you deal with user input is probably the #1 thing after proper network isolation /control, etc
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 423 2014-05-23 07:37:20 <mus1cb0x> validate that data
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 479 2014-05-23 09:01:33 <jaromil_> lulz http://www.globalnerdy.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/licenceplatecamerasqlinjection.jpg
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 498 2014-05-23 09:18:28 <deeprock2> is anyone here familiar with how stealth addresses work, that I can message in private ? want to understand more about them
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 501 2014-05-23 09:21:28 <wumpus> I think it's more effective to just ask your question here, then someone who knows can answer
 502 2014-05-23 09:22:37 <Luke-Jr> sigh, always fun when your memcpy function is broken
 503 2014-05-23 09:23:12 <wumpus> memcpy broken? how can that happen? some funky new architecture?
 504 2014-05-23 09:23:55 <deeprock2> ah ok, i didn't want to spam the chat, the main problem i'm finding hard to understand is in the proposal by pete, is when you do the BIP 32 key derivation part which is written as (Q+c)G... (c is the diffie-hellman shared secret that Alice and Bob have created). From my understanding Q and G are two points on a curve so you cant multiply them... i think it might be a typo, but then i'm not sure what happens at this point.
 505 2014-05-23 09:24:01 <Luke-Jr> wumpus: it seems SSSE3 is broken on Haswell CPUs
 506 2014-05-23 09:24:13 <Luke-Jr> but they claim to support it in cpuinfo
 507 2014-05-23 09:24:35 jokosh has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 508 2014-05-23 09:24:51 <Luke-Jr> so glibc, Mesa, and Qt recently adopted SSSE3-based memcpy..
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 511 2014-05-23 09:25:17 <deeprock2> And why when alice receives the transaction, decrypts it using H(Q), she is able to claim the the output using the new address Q' = (Q+c)G...
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 518 2014-05-23 09:35:42 <wumpus> Luke-Jr: sounds ilke a recipe for disaster, that will need a kernel fix to not report SSSE3 for those models
 519 2014-05-23 09:36:24 <Luke-Jr> or maybe if we're lucky a microcode update to fix it :x
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 561 2014-05-23 10:34:14 <warren> Anyone know off hand what changed in 0.9 that made the leveldb index incompatible with 0.8 clients?
 562 2014-05-23 10:34:24 <warren> prune unspendable, sst/ldb, anything else?
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 565 2014-05-23 10:36:19 <sipa> only prune unspendable, afaik
 566 2014-05-23 10:36:35 <sipa> (technically not the index, but the chainstate)
 567 2014-05-23 10:36:48 <sipa> sst/ldb was reverted before 0.9 release afaik
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 573 2014-05-23 10:42:51 <warren> thanks
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 582 2014-05-23 10:52:35 <warren> hmm... tried reverting only those parts and 0.8 doesn't like it
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 585 2014-05-23 10:56:09 <sipa> running 0.9 once on a chainstate may make it incompatible with 0.8 in the future
 586 2014-05-23 10:56:23 <sipa> and the unspendable thing was like 3 commits/prs
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 588 2014-05-23 10:57:02 <warren> yeah, i reverted all three PR's
 589 2014-05-23 10:57:34 <warren> I don't need the future, just 0.9.2 and 0.8.x
 590 2014-05-23 10:58:52 <warren> https://github.com/sipa/bitcoin/commit/170e02deaf2bb1f8f79ffafbb4ff7f62cb933c62
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 592 2014-05-23 10:58:55 <warren> https://github.com/sipa/bitcoin/commit/99740bab9c38837ab575fdc00343afa68d62ab68
 593 2014-05-23 10:58:58 <warren> https://github.com/sipa/bitcoin/commit/ec84e81e8383b3b1e1ef4a6dbcb088193d8de5d7
 594 2014-05-23 10:59:00 <warren> That right?
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 691 2014-05-23 13:27:35 <raistlinthewiz> is this an invalid request? http://pastie.org/9202512
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 693 2014-05-23 13:29:15 <raistlinthewiz> if so how python-stratum uses it? https://github.com/Crypto-Expert/stratum-mining/blob/052dc3ae5833a87519c81ce6535c4a1ff45cf7ac/lib/bitcoin_rpc.py#L88
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 701 2014-05-23 13:34:37 <shibeKBVE> Hello
 702 2014-05-23 13:34:41 <shibeKBVE> join #bitcoin
 703 2014-05-23 13:34:55 <shibeKBVE> */join lol
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 712 2014-05-23 13:55:27 <wumpus> hello
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 716 2014-05-23 13:59:35 <shibeKBVE> Hey wumpus
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 722 2014-05-23 14:02:33 <t7> a cool project would be more in-depth test whether a script is unspendable
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 725 2014-05-23 14:03:10 <t7> for instance, one could do <OP_NOP, OP_RET, spammy stuff>
 726 2014-05-23 14:03:15 <t7> and not get pruned
 727 2014-05-23 14:03:22 slm_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 728 2014-05-23 14:04:02 <t7> could do some simple type checking on the stack
 729 2014-05-23 14:04:32 <t7> and then get even more hardcore and run it through SMT solver
 730 2014-05-23 14:05:03 <t7> find arithmetic errors that mean it will never be valid
 731 2014-05-23 14:05:29 Cocodude has joined
 732 2014-05-23 14:05:42 <Cocodude> Hey there. It's me again with the strange "bitcoind setting the fees back to zero" problem.
 733 2014-05-23 14:06:39 Vitalik has joined
 734 2014-05-23 14:07:25 <Cocodude> If I run bitcoind with debug=1, it should output all debug information, right?
 735 2014-05-23 14:07:50 <wumpus> Cocodude: no
 736 2014-05-23 14:07:55 <wumpus> just use debug=
 737 2014-05-23 14:08:07 <Cocodude> Oops, OK, will restart
 738 2014-05-23 14:08:19 <wumpus> I think we should accept =1 as well, but we don't at the moment
 739 2014-05-23 14:08:45 <shibeKBVE> Uh oh
 740 2014-05-23 14:09:15 Burrito has joined
 741 2014-05-23 14:09:25 <shibeKBVE> Little correction
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 743 2014-05-23 14:10:00 <wumpus> ?
 744 2014-05-23 14:10:06 <shibeKBVE> We're dropping
 745 2014-05-23 14:10:34 <helo> shibeKBVE: offtopic in here
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 747 2014-05-23 14:10:48 <shibeKBVE> Oh, sorry. Thought this was #bitcoin
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 750 2014-05-23 14:12:37 <Cocodude> OK, so I'm running with debug= now. If I then run "bitcoind getinfo" shouldn't I see some debug message saying that the RPC call was made?
 751 2014-05-23 14:12:58 <wumpus> yes
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 753 2014-05-23 14:13:42 <Cocodude> Hmm, I don't
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 755 2014-05-23 14:14:06 <shibeKBVE> Dang, apicoin is so confusing...
 756 2014-05-23 14:14:08 <Cocodude> I'm running "bitcoind debug= spendzeroconfchange=0"
 757 2014-05-23 14:14:20 <Cocodude> But definitely nothing when I run "bitcoind getinfo" afterwards
 758 2014-05-23 14:14:29 <helo> Cocodude: bitcoind -debug= -spendzeroconfchange=0
 759 2014-05-23 14:14:38 <helo> bitmasher: remove the '-' if you put them in bitcoin.conf
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 761 2014-05-23 14:14:58 <helo> err... Cocodude ^
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 764 2014-05-23 14:15:07 * Cocodude slaps himself
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 766 2014-05-23 14:16:56 <reipr> where in the source are transaction fees calculated?
 767 2014-05-23 14:18:28 <Cocodude> OK great, I'm getting debug now. Thanks!
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 769 2014-05-23 14:19:05 <wumpus> reipr: GetMinFee
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 771 2014-05-23 14:19:09 <shibeKBVE> Do you guys think apicoin.io is secure?
 772 2014-05-23 14:19:32 <helo> default answer - no
 773 2014-05-23 14:20:22 <shibeKBVE> It seems like a cool concept, but...
 774 2014-05-23 14:20:51 <Cocodude> It rather goes against the decentralised nature of Bitcoin
 775 2014-05-23 14:21:19 <shibeKBVE> Yeah, Easy to use API to the bitcoin network...
 776 2014-05-23 14:21:22 <wumpus> secure or not, relying on a third-party service is not a good idea
 777 2014-05-23 14:21:34 <wumpus> it's a central point of failure
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 779 2014-05-23 14:21:43 <shibeKBVE> Yep
 780 2014-05-23 14:22:01 <shibeKBVE> Running local Bitcoind on a Dedi FTW
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 787 2014-05-23 14:28:43 <wumpus> if only the work people put into running all kinds of online services was put into making nodes easier to set up and run, things would progress much faster
 788 2014-05-23 14:29:45 hearn has joined
 789 2014-05-23 14:30:18 <shibeKBVE> Do you think we really need more nodes?
 790 2014-05-23 14:30:36 <sipa> we need the ability to run nodes
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 792 2014-05-23 14:32:08 <wumpus> shibeKBVE: it's not so much about quantity
 793 2014-05-23 14:32:31 weilu has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 794 2014-05-23 14:32:53 <shibeKBVE> What's it about?
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 796 2014-05-23 14:33:56 <wumpus> it's just that *the way bitcoin is supposed to be used* is to run your own node (SPV wallets excluded), especially if you are a merchant or site... people are creating a lot of structural risk be relying on centralized services, which is what the idea of P2P was trying to avoid
 797 2014-05-23 14:34:53 <shibeKBVE> Agreed
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 800 2014-05-23 14:36:58 <wumpus> most baffling to me is that people are supposed to pay for using apicoin.io, that's interesting, it's all free and public information you're querying
 801 2014-05-23 14:37:28 nsh has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 802 2014-05-23 14:37:33 <sipa> i looked at the website, and browsed away after seeing the word 'secure' 3 times in 2 sentences
 803 2014-05-23 14:37:43 <shibeKBVE> lol
 804 2014-05-23 14:38:00 <wumpus> hehe
 805 2014-05-23 14:38:50 <helo> we're secure! you're secure! we're secure together!
 806 2014-05-23 14:39:14 <cbeams> "We been studying the protocol..." :)
 807 2014-05-23 14:39:27 <cbeams> Looks similar to what chain.com is up to, perhaps.
 808 2014-05-23 14:39:38 <cbeams> hard to tell from what's available on the site at the moment.
 809 2014-05-23 14:39:58 <shibeKBVE> Looks like it
 810 2014-05-23 14:40:03 <shibeKBVE> Chain.com's free too
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 812 2014-05-23 14:40:39 <helo> betting against the proposition that people's local resources are going to grow more quickly than bitcoin core's demands
 813 2014-05-23 14:41:13 cr3pe has joined
 814 2014-05-23 14:41:49 <wumpus> betting against Moore's law has always been a foolish thing to know, but sure we can't predict the future
 815 2014-05-23 14:41:56 <wumpus> to do*
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 830 2014-05-23 14:56:49 <epscy> wumpus: is there list of tangible things that need doing to make running a node easier?
 831 2014-05-23 14:57:30 <epscy> wumpus: is it primarily a documentation problem or are there obvious implementation changes too?
 832 2014-05-23 14:58:25 <wumpus> epscy: use your own creativity, for me it's hard to think from the direction of new users that want to set up a node
 833 2014-05-23 14:58:48 <wumpus> epscy: maybe ready-to-use VPS images, or other virtualization containers, I don't know
 834 2014-05-23 14:59:32 <wumpus> epscy: up-to-date distribution packages for various linux distros
 835 2014-05-23 14:59:37 aquarat has joined
 836 2014-05-23 14:59:41 <wumpus> epscy: and yes ,of course, documentation
 837 2014-05-23 14:59:51 * epscy nods
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 839 2014-05-23 15:00:33 <wumpus> I do think bandwidth controls are very important, but we need parallel block download first before it's safe to add that
 840 2014-05-23 15:01:10 <epscy> in #bitcoin it's almost become the default advice when someone asks about setting up a node to take payments to refer them to bitpay or coinbase
 841 2014-05-23 15:01:25 cbeams has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 842 2014-05-23 15:02:18 <wumpus> well sure for taking payments the fastest way is to use a SPV wallet or something like bitpay/coinbase
 843 2014-05-23 15:02:47 <wumpus> but if you're at the technical level that you want to use something like apicoin where you know what to query from the block chain, it makes sense to set up a node yourself
 844 2014-05-23 15:03:06 <epscy> yeah i see what you are saying
 845 2014-05-23 15:03:21 <epscy> i guess what we really need is "bitpay in a box"
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 847 2014-05-23 15:03:35 <helo> are current upstream + downstream data requirements roughly (block size * peers)? i.e. client will receve or send every transaction and every block header from or to every peer
 848 2014-05-23 15:03:36 <epscy> a box being a vm image, docker container or something
 849 2014-05-23 15:04:13 <wumpus> helo: it's hard to predict, some peers want the block chain from the beginning, others want only the recent blocks
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 852 2014-05-23 15:04:36 <wumpus> helo: I'd *guess* most of the bandwidth goes into serving archived blocks
 853 2014-05-23 15:04:37 <helo> well, assuming you're not a syncnode
 854 2014-05-23 15:04:55 <gmaxwell> helo: no, then, not anywhere near that usually.
 855 2014-05-23 15:05:20 <helo> syncnode data requirements are unbounded... i'm more curious about how much data is duplicated over the network.
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 857 2014-05-23 15:06:56 <wumpus> maybe a limit to syncnode data per [time unit] would be useful
 858 2014-05-23 15:07:16 <helo> i assume that for every transaction, for every peer it is either sent to that peer or received from it
 859 2014-05-23 15:07:55 <helo> (whether ala carte or as part of a block)
 860 2014-05-23 15:08:13 <wumpus> after the limit is exceeded, the node could turn off its NODE_NETWORK bit, so it stays up to date with blocks and transactions but doesn't serve any new nodes anymore
 861 2014-05-23 15:08:19 <gmaxwell> wumpus: throttling syncnode behavior really hurts the guy thats pulling from you already. it's pretty easy to make the peer take a week to sync the chain.
 862 2014-05-23 15:08:26 <gmaxwell> ah but thats an idea.
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 864 2014-05-23 15:08:44 <wumpus> gmaxwell: I'm not talking about making it slower, just stopping 
 865 2014-05-23 15:08:47 <helo> that would make running a full node on my home connection feasible again
 866 2014-05-23 15:09:15 <wumpus> I have various VPSes where I'd like to run a node, but I don't want to use more than a certain number of GB per month for it
 867 2014-05-23 15:09:17 Namworld has joined
 868 2014-05-23 15:09:28 <wumpus> TOR allows setting accounting limits like that
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 872 2014-05-23 15:10:00 <helo> running over TOR effectively sets GB per month limits as well, even without setting any :)
 873 2014-05-23 15:10:19 <wumpus> uhm relay nodes can use a lot of bandwidth if you don't limit them
 874 2014-05-23 15:11:19 <jgarzik_> Yah, I lost my two beefy relay nodes recently :(
 875 2014-05-23 15:11:26 <jgarzik_> I think stopping is OK
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 878 2014-05-23 15:11:49 <helo> even running a hidden service relay node, i use probably an order of magnitude less data than over ipv4
 879 2014-05-23 15:12:02 <jgarzik_> wumpus, the only problem I see immediately is that NODE_xxx is propagated via "adde"
 880 2014-05-23 15:12:05 <jgarzik_> "addr"
 881 2014-05-23 15:12:06 <gmaxwell> wumpus: the other thing that can help is if you're trying to use less bandwidth is to add latency to your block and tx inv messages. If you're late your peers won't pick you to pull from.
 882 2014-05-23 15:12:52 <cr3pe> maybe I'm off topic but if you want to limit node bandwith under linux, I think it can be done using qdisc
 883 2014-05-23 15:13:03 <gmaxwell> cr3pe: yes and right now thats fairly harmful to do.
 884 2014-05-23 15:13:05 <jgarzik_> flipping NODE_NETWORK on and off probably requires a nodeid change, at a minimum
 885 2014-05-23 15:13:39 <gmaxwell> jgarzik_: right, but I think even if your relayed addr messages say node_network, if you're not node network when someone connects than thats what counts.
 886 2014-05-23 15:13:53 <wumpus> jgarzik_: there is no way to say 'I no longer want to be a syncnode, go away'?
 887 2014-05-23 15:14:07 <jgarzik_> gmaxwell, FSVO...  qdisc limitation is functionally what happens anyway at a higher level for each pipe
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 889 2014-05-23 15:14:17 <jgarzik_> wumpus, no
 890 2014-05-23 15:14:27 <jgarzik_> wumpus, not beyond "stop node and restart"
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 892 2014-05-23 15:14:57 <gmaxwell> hm? sure you just hang up on your peers and on reconnect you don't send the node network bit.
 893 2014-05-23 15:15:00 <jgarzik_> wumpus, connections see NODE_NETWORK in addr advertisements, connect, and expect a certain level of service to persist for the length of the TCP connection
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 895 2014-05-23 15:15:16 <helo> hang up on syncnode peers only?
 896 2014-05-23 15:15:17 <jgarzik_> gmaxwell, bit is still out there
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 899 2014-05-23 15:15:39 <gmaxwell> jgarzik_: yes, but thats okay— I think. They'll connect to you, be sad, and go elsewhere.
 900 2014-05-23 15:16:16 <gmaxwell> (they already deal with lots and lots of down peers, so it shouldn't be the end of the world)
 901 2014-05-23 15:16:31 <jgarzik_> gmaxwell, far fewer deal with up-but-confused peers
 902 2014-05-23 15:16:38 <gmaxwell> helo: you'd need to hang up on anything you didn't want to respond to as a node network node.
 903 2014-05-23 15:16:51 <jgarzik_> gmaxwell, DNS seeds will still give out their address for a time
 904 2014-05-23 15:17:04 <wumpus> it may even decide to keep servicing the currently connected nodes, just no new ones
 905 2014-05-23 15:17:10 <jgarzik_> It's doable, sure.  Thus "stop node and restart" (or the single connection equivalent thereof)
 906 2014-05-23 15:17:32 <gmaxwell> jgarzik_: yea sure, but so? already a host may change behavior or stop working at any time. I do think systems will already handle it find (of course it would need testing)
 907 2014-05-23 15:17:46 <cr3pe> gmaxwell: why is it harmfull? Because it slows down everything?
 908 2014-05-23 15:17:52 <gmaxwell> jgarzik_: okay then I think we're basically saying the same thing.
 909 2014-05-23 15:17:53 <wumpus> or, indeed, just kick them, and they'll find someone else
 910 2014-05-23 15:18:45 <gmaxwell> cr3pe: because new nodes pulling blocks only pull from one at a time currently. If you serve them very slowly it's better to just hang up on them so they'll find someone faster to pull from.
 911 2014-05-23 15:18:57 <gmaxwell> cr3pe: otherwise you can make them take weeks to sync the blockchain.
 912 2014-05-23 15:19:26 <gmaxwell> wumpus: yea would be interesting to have a flag "am I node-network for _this_ peer" that changes what we'll do for it.
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 914 2014-05-23 15:20:24 <cr3pe> gmaxwell: ok
 915 2014-05-23 15:20:27 <wumpus> gmaxwell: could be combined with the whiteport functionality to allow internal syncnodes but not external ones
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 917 2014-05-23 15:21:08 <gmaxwell> would be pretty reasonable to keep up a existing node-network connections (e.g. to existing fully synchronized peers) if you're not totally out of bandwidth.  Indeed and the whiteport would keep your own stuff going.
 918 2014-05-23 15:22:38 <dhill> when an spv client issues a getdata for a filtered block, bitcoind sends a merkleblock, then inv's all the tx's that were not in the merkleblock?
 919 2014-05-23 15:22:54 <dhill> is that a "just in case" or is there an actual use case for that?
 920 2014-05-23 15:22:55 <gmaxwell> e.g. if running low on of bandwidth, flip off node network,  turn off node_network on new non-whiteport inbound connections (leave on outbound), kick any non-whiteport peer that pulls an old block, and add another 100ms delay to block and tx announcements to non-whiteport peers.
 921 2014-05-23 15:23:47 <wumpus> gmaxwell: sounds sensible
 922 2014-05-23 15:26:11 <dhill> seems like a waste of bandwidth to inv all the tx's that were not in the merkleblock..
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 924 2014-05-23 15:28:39 <gmaxwell> dhill: are you saying it invs the rest of the block content? I didn't think it was supposted to do that. There was some corner case here regarding the memory pool that I'm struggling to remember.
 925 2014-05-23 15:29:18 <dhill> mempool command looks to only inv the tx's that match the filter
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 927 2014-05-23 15:29:56 <dhill> i am looking at line 3411 in main.cpp
 928 2014-05-23 15:30:11 <dhill> or wait
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 930 2014-05-23 15:30:42 <kjj> so, I'm watching a namecoin node boot for the first time, and it strikes me that it might be a good idea to suppress txs until it is reasonably current on blocks
 931 2014-05-23 15:30:55 <dhill> gmaxwell, is that inv'ing the tx's that were actually in the merkleblock?
 932 2014-05-23 15:31:16 <dhill> yup
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 935 2014-05-23 15:32:32 <dhill> and i am wrong more..  not inv'ing.. but actually sending the tx's
 936 2014-05-23 15:32:46 <dhill> isn't that against protocol?
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 938 2014-05-23 15:33:04 <dhill> sending tx without an inv?
 939 2014-05-23 15:33:10 <gmaxwell> Sending the transactions is specifically part of the bloom filter specification.
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 942 2014-05-23 15:33:21 <gmaxwell> (and the reason for it is covered in the spec)
 943 2014-05-23 15:34:38 <gmaxwell> (IIRC the reason is that you can't just request random txes in blocks (nodes promise no random access to historic blocks) so it must if it were to work at all, and to eliminate a RTT)
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 945 2014-05-23 15:36:44 <dhill> ok, that makes more sense.. thanks for the help
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 947 2014-05-23 15:37:40 <gmaxwell> (if you're implementing bloom filtering be sure to also read the spec for it)
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1115 2014-05-23 19:04:30 <crunk-juice> what's the minimum transaction fee?
1116 2014-05-23 19:04:42 <crunk-juice> .0001?
1117 2014-05-23 19:05:51 <gmaxwell> 0, depending on the content of the transaction. Though 0 may not get confirmed quickly.
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1120 2014-05-23 19:09:14 <coryfields> wumpus: now that i have it up and running on my 10.9 macbook, it seems highdpi isn't respected in master, but it works fine in 0.9.1
1121 2014-05-23 19:09:33 <coryfields> so there's a regression there, it would seem
1122 2014-05-23 19:09:57 <coryfields> would be nice if someone running on non-10.9 non-retina could confirm that it looks ok otherwise
1123 2014-05-23 19:12:18 <btiefert> Sorry, I no longer have a non-retina to help you with.
1124 2014-05-23 19:13:32 <coryfields> btiefert: you're 10.9 as well?
1125 2014-05-23 19:14:12 <btiefert> Yes, @ 10.9.2
1126 2014-05-23 19:14:31 <coryfields> ok
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1134 2014-05-23 19:20:29 <crunk-juice> The minimum in Bitcoinj is .0001 right?
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1142 2014-05-23 19:30:50 <wumpus> coryfields: weird
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1146 2014-05-23 19:32:52 <coryfields> wumpus: trying to track it down now
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1149 2014-05-23 19:34:18 <coryfields> wumpus: .9.1 shipped with qt 4.8, where a fix went in. I suppose it's possible that it didn't make it into the 5.x branch
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1171 2014-05-23 19:59:35 <wumpus> 5.x is supposed to work *better* with highdpi
1172 2014-05-23 19:59:47 <wumpus> it was one of the reasons we switched to qt 5 at all
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1175 2014-05-23 20:02:49 <wumpus> maybe it's some configure option that has to be passed to the qt build? does the 10.6 SDK support highdpi at all?
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1186 2014-05-23 20:15:12 <wallet42> tech track talks online from #bitcoin2014 somewhere?
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1203 2014-05-23 20:35:09 <coryfields> wumpus: might've tracked it down. trying something.
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1231 2014-05-23 21:12:49 <coryfields> wumpus: ok, found the problem. it's not good news :\
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1233 2014-05-23 21:13:30 <coryfields> qt5 uses new apis not present in our sdk
1234 2014-05-23 21:13:39 <coryfields> so it's ifdef'd out for us
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1238 2014-05-23 21:17:57 <wumpus> that's what I thought, so the qt that we were using was probably compiled with a newer SDK?
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1240 2014-05-23 21:20:14 <wumpus> or does qt4 somehow use older APIs that do the same thing?
1241 2014-05-23 21:21:41 <coryfields> ah right, gavin used the binary release for .9x
1242 2014-05-23 21:22:26 <coryfields> looking into a new sdk now.
1243 2014-05-23 21:23:42 <coryfields> well, i suppose we could do that again, also
1244 2014-05-23 21:24:07 <wumpus> how does that work? would that break compatibility with a MacOSX version?
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1246 2014-05-23 21:24:39 <wumpus> no idea what the minimum requirement for 0.9.1 was, really
1247 2014-05-23 21:24:41 <coryfields> hmm?
1248 2014-05-23 21:25:09 <wumpus> well if you use a newer SDK than 10.6 it would break compatibility with that version, or not?
1249 2014-05-23 21:25:10 <coryfields> iirc qt's default min is 10.5 or 10.6
1250 2014-05-23 21:25:32 <wumpus> what version of the SDK would you need to get the highdpi APIs?
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1253 2014-05-23 21:27:04 <coryfields> looks like >= xcode 4.1
1254 2014-05-23 21:27:36 <wumpus> oh, so that version numbering is different from the 10.x
1255 2014-05-23 21:27:58 <coryfields> heh, it's a mess :)
1256 2014-05-23 21:29:16 <coryfields> you can't just get an sdk, they're tied to xcode
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1258 2014-05-23 21:29:54 <coryfields> and your xcode version determines the sdks you can target
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1260 2014-05-23 21:30:24 <coryfields> i've got 4.6.3 on the way now, we'll see what happens
1261 2014-05-23 21:30:58 <coryfields> tbh, holding off on the cross-build for 0.9.2 is starting to look like the right thing to do :(
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1264 2014-05-23 21:32:40 <wumpus> well let's not give up yet, see if simply upgrading the SDK fixes it
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1266 2014-05-23 21:33:32 <coryfields> well, upgrading the sdk means reworking the entire toolchain
1267 2014-05-23 21:33:46 <wumpus> ugh :/
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1270 2014-05-23 21:34:09 <wumpus> maybe downgrade qt to 4.x? would that work too?
1271 2014-05-23 21:34:20 <coryfields> if you still want to push for it, using the binary qt build would be the way to go
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1273 2014-05-23 21:35:25 <wumpus> but that was problematic too, I remember we couldn't get it to work with the binary version of qt5
1274 2014-05-23 21:36:07 <coryfields> built fine for me, gavin was having some problem with it...
1275 2014-05-23 21:36:18 <coryfields> but iirc he was rushed and 4.x worked, so he went with it
1276 2014-05-23 21:36:40 <coryfields> well, for that matter, we can just use that 4.x bin again
1277 2014-05-23 21:36:47 <coryfields> not sure if that's what you meant above or not
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1279 2014-05-23 21:38:39 <coryfields> i can whip that up. Shouldn't take too long.
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1286 2014-05-23 21:48:43 <wumpus> I don't mind, if the 5.x bin works that's better of course
1287 2014-05-23 21:48:50 <wumpus> but I remember there was some problem or crash with it
1288 2014-05-23 21:48:54 <wumpus> I don't know the details
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1318 2014-05-23 22:27:11 <andytoshi> ;;seen codeshark
1319 2014-05-23 22:27:12 <gribble> codeshark was last seen in #bitcoin-dev 1 week, 5 days, 13 hours, 4 minutes, and 3 seconds ago: <CodeShark> a little bit of effort early on in creating a new source file and adding the includes will save you a bunch of agony as a result of being lazy and figuring everything already includes main.h anyhow
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1321 2014-05-23 22:29:26 <andytoshi> anyone here using the CodeCore library (used in CodeShark's multisig wallet CoinVault)? itsm that it is encoding a lot of numbers as big-endian that the wiki says are little-endian. can anyone clarify this?
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1345 2014-05-23 23:09:05 <coryfields> wumpus: lol, that's insane...
1346 2014-05-23 23:09:12 <coryfields> 10.7 sdk built and worked first try.
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1348 2014-05-23 23:10:09 <coryfields> bitcoin-qt hidpi confirmed working that way
1349 2014-05-23 23:10:29 <wumpus> good!
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1351 2014-05-23 23:12:28 <coryfields> cleaning up now, but I'm going to need at least another day :\
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