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  23 2014-05-25 00:54:38 <Peezr> Any ideas on where I could find the stylizing/color of the InitMessage from the splash image on QT startup?
  24 2014-05-25 00:54:52 <Peezr> "Loading block index..." text/stylizing.
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 100 2014-05-25 03:29:59 <andytoshi> gmaxwell: in PR 4226 you suggested i add the priority to the output of explainrawtransaction, is there a standard notion of priority?
 101 2014-05-25 03:32:04 <gmaxwell> andytoshi: the floating point code used by the node itself. (dPriority)
 102 2014-05-25 03:32:21 <andytoshi> cool, thx
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 172 2014-05-25 05:35:51 <Genitrus_> hmm, anyone here use the latest Armory wallet for OSX?
 173 2014-05-25 05:35:55 <Genitrus_> http://pastie.org/9208308
 174 2014-05-25 05:36:10 <Genitrus_> Am I doing something wrong, or is the OSX download, well, not matching the hash given by Alan?
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 184 2014-05-25 05:49:23 <arubi> Genitrus_, the sha256sum is OK for me, try re-downloading
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 194 2014-05-25 06:07:06 <Genitrus_> arubi: you did a sha256sum on OSX the same way i did? (shasum -a 256)
 195 2014-05-25 06:07:45 <arubi> I'm using linux, so `sha256sum <file>`
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 197 2014-05-25 06:08:26 <Genitrus_> ok cool, tar.gz fine..ty for info!
 198 2014-05-25 06:08:44 <arubi> np
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 266 2014-05-25 07:54:57 <nugget_bram> Does anyone have any experience compiling qt wallets (specifically 0.8.6) on mac?
 267 2014-05-25 07:56:02 <nugget_bram> I've compiled an altcoin wallet successfully (No errors, command used was make
 268 2014-05-25 07:56:25 <nugget_bram> Yet when I launch it, I get an error stating that it is "corrupted and damaged"
 269 2014-05-25 07:56:39 <nugget_bram> If I navigate to the file withing contents, it works.
 270 2014-05-25 07:56:41 <nugget_bram> Any ideas?
 271 2014-05-25 07:58:43 <nugget_bram> You can't open the application "Altcoin-Qt" because it may be damaged or incomplete
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 282 2014-05-25 08:13:44 <wumpus> you should look for support for altwallets from your respective altwallet devs, not here
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 284 2014-05-25 08:14:59 <ThomasV> wumpus: huh?
 285 2014-05-25 08:15:17 <wumpus> ThomasV: sorry, altcoin*
 286 2014-05-25 08:15:25 <nugget_bram> This is my own wallet, and I wasn't sure where else to look
 287 2014-05-25 08:15:34 <ThomasV> oh, you're answering to someone I guess
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 289 2014-05-25 08:16:56 <ThomasV> gosh, btc price is rallying
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 291 2014-05-25 08:19:10 <ThomasV> mr_burdell: still here?
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 388 2014-05-25 10:38:30 <chichov> how big are the currently supported multisig transactions in terms of #pubkeys?
 389 2014-05-25 10:39:58 <shesek> chichov, up to 3 total public keys if you're using the multisig script in the output
 390 2014-05-25 10:40:08 <shesek> and up to 15 (assuming compressed public keys) if you're using p2sh
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 392 2014-05-25 10:40:36 <chichov> shesek: I heard the first somewhere, but not of the latter
 393 2014-05-25 10:40:41 <chichov> interesting to know though, thanks
 394 2014-05-25 10:40:48 <shesek> chichov, the latter is somewhat of an oversight
 395 2014-05-25 10:40:57 <shesek> it should be limited to 3, but that check doesn't apply when using p2sh
 396 2014-05-25 10:41:15 <shesek> so you're basically only limited by the size of the script, which ends up as up to 15 public keys
 397 2014-05-25 10:41:15 <chichov> it will be accepted by the node though?
 398 2014-05-25 10:41:29 <shesek> it is accepted by the reference implementation
 399 2014-05-25 10:41:47 <chichov> hm, what's the script size limitation?
 400 2014-05-25 10:42:35 <shesek> hmm, I don't remember exactly
 401 2014-05-25 10:43:07 <chichov> I only know of 10.000 bytes for scripts and 520 bytes for a data push
 402 2014-05-25 10:43:30 <chichov> do you by any chance have a reference to those 15 pubkeys in P2SH?
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 404 2014-05-25 10:45:32 <chichov> maybe those 520 bytes come into play there somewhere, I'll take a look into that
 405 2014-05-25 10:47:51 <chichov> I think I have it: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=559776.msg6464345#msg6464345
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 504 2014-05-25 13:49:04 <chichov> which JSON-RPC version does bitcoind use now?
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 511 2014-05-25 13:56:09 <edcba> hi !
 512 2014-05-25 13:56:39 <Luke-Jr> chichov: I think it's *supposed* to be compatible with either 1 or 2
 513 2014-05-25 13:57:07 <chichov> Luke-Jr: I'm just having some strange errors when using libjson-rpc-cpp, that's why
 514 2014-05-25 13:57:52 <edcba> was reading about https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/4183 why not removing *all* unused code ? It's not like it is lost forever.
 515 2014-05-25 13:58:38 <Luke-Jr> edcba: well, if you remove it, the history is lost/obscured even if readded
 516 2014-05-25 13:58:47 <Luke-Jr> so it makes sense to only remove code that we don't *expect* to use
 517 2014-05-25 13:59:58 datagutt has joined
 518 2014-05-25 14:00:10 <edcba> i prefer yagni but i see
 519 2014-05-25 14:00:34 nessence has joined
 520 2014-05-25 14:00:49 <Luke-Jr> edcba: my point is we have unused code that is there because we *know we will need it*
 521 2014-05-25 14:00:57 <Luke-Jr> edcba: for example, HD wallet primitives
 522 2014-05-25 14:02:22 CodeShark has joined
 523 2014-05-25 14:03:07 <edcba> you can't predict future ! :)
 524 2014-05-25 14:03:40 <edcba> anyway the history argumentation is enough for me
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 527 2014-05-25 14:06:06 <wumpus> edcba: do you think I do not provide clear enough arguments for the functions I want to keep?
 528 2014-05-25 14:07:15 lclc has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
 529 2014-05-25 14:07:36 <wumpus> for one, if you define a certain api with Add/Remove/Edit primitives it makes no sense to remove one of them if it currently happens to be unused.. you can be fairly sure it's needed later and it just feels 'incomplete' otherwise
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 533 2014-05-25 14:09:26 <wumpus> (or we would have this CService object which allows getting and setting the host, but not setting the port!)
 534 2014-05-25 14:09:27 <edcba> are all unused methods API ?
 535 2014-05-25 14:09:38 <wumpus> have you read my post at all?
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 537 2014-05-25 14:10:09 <buZz>     "errors" : "This is a pre-release test build - use at your own risk - do not use for mining or merchant applications"
 538 2014-05-25 14:10:12 <wumpus> I provide rationale for *every single function* that he mentions that I don't want to see go
 539 2014-05-25 14:10:12 <buZz> gaw
 540 2014-05-25 14:10:17 <buZz> i just pulled current git >_<
 541 2014-05-25 14:10:27 <buZz> i guess it should be fine
 542 2014-05-25 14:10:36 <buZz> but shouldnt current git just be a stable version?
 543 2014-05-25 14:10:46 <wumpus> buZz: no
 544 2014-05-25 14:10:50 <gmaxwell> buZz: no, wtf. git is a source code repository for development.
 545 2014-05-25 14:10:59 <buZz> heh ok
 546 2014-05-25 14:10:59 <gmaxwell> If you want a release, download a release! :)
 547 2014-05-25 14:11:04 <wumpus> check out a release tag if you want a stable version, for example v0.9.1
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 549 2014-05-25 14:11:30 <buZz> i just use tags for development
 550 2014-05-25 14:11:34 <buZz> and master as stable
 551 2014-05-25 14:11:41 <wumpus> the in-development version cannot be stable
 552 2014-05-25 14:11:41 <buZz> but i guess taste is a personal matter
 553 2014-05-25 14:11:57 <wumpus> well that's up to you isn't it
 554 2014-05-25 14:12:13 <wumpus> i don't want to decide what you do in your own projects :P
 555 2014-05-25 14:12:15 <buZz> yeah taste is up to me :P
 556 2014-05-25 14:14:39 <Luke-Jr> wtf, tags *can't* be used for developmetn
 557 2014-05-25 14:15:19 <buZz> branches*
 558 2014-05-25 14:15:39 <wumpus> master is a branch like any other
 559 2014-05-25 14:15:57 <wumpus> we use branches too, actually, for example there is the 0.9.2 branch where also active development happens
 560 2014-05-25 14:16:04 <CodeShark> the only thing that makes master special is that it is automatically created when you init the repo
 561 2014-05-25 14:16:47 <CodeShark> also, it is the default branch on github
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 563 2014-05-25 14:17:00 <wumpus> it's the default default branch (you can set it to something else)
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 565 2014-05-25 14:17:31 <CodeShark> wumpus: where were you hiding in Amsterdam? :p
 566 2014-05-25 14:17:56 <CodeShark> I kept asking people to introduce me to you but nobody could ever find you
 567 2014-05-25 14:20:52 <wumpus> oh :/
 568 2014-05-25 14:21:19 <CodeShark> will you be in Vienna?
 569 2014-05-25 14:22:27 <wumpus> whoa that's end of this month already, no, not planning to
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 571 2014-05-25 14:23:54 * Luke-Jr really doesn't get why we have conferences so often
 572 2014-05-25 14:24:03 <Luke-Jr> really, once or twice a year should be plenty..
 573 2014-05-25 14:24:16 <CodeShark> geography is the only real justification
 574 2014-05-25 14:24:17 <wumpus> I think we should have a development-focused bitcoin conference
 575 2014-05-25 14:24:24 <CodeShark> but
 576 2014-05-25 14:24:36 <CodeShark> yeah, agreed
 577 2014-05-25 14:25:28 <Luke-Jr> can we lock CodeShark up and force him to finish multiwallet on B-Qt? :P
 578 2014-05-25 14:25:29 <wumpus> yes geography is the largest issue, bitcoin 2014 was nice because it was really close to here
 579 2014-05-25 14:25:48 <CodeShark> lol, Luke-Jr
 580 2014-05-25 14:25:49 <wumpus> Luke-Jr: nah at this point I'd rather have him work on a good alternative wallet seperate of bitcoind
 581 2014-05-25 14:26:06 <CodeShark> if you want multiwallet, I recommend https://ciphrex.com :)
 582 2014-05-25 14:26:11 <Luke-Jr> wumpus: oh, are we modularising by abandoning B-Qt? XD
 583 2014-05-25 14:26:30 <wumpus> Luke-Jr: it's not my preferable path, but it's the most realistic option at this point :p
 584 2014-05-25 14:27:14 <CodeShark> full hierarchical account management, full multisig support, support for offline signing and watch-only accounts, websockets interface for inbound transaction processing
 585 2014-05-25 14:27:32 <CodeShark> SPV
 586 2014-05-25 14:27:32 <wumpus> Luke-Jr: there is just so much that has to be done for the bitcoin-qt wallet to even stay on par with other wallets
 587 2014-05-25 14:28:54 <wumpus> for one: get rid of/sanitise the account system, implement SPV, implement HD wallets, improve scalability, etc etc etc
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 589 2014-05-25 14:29:05 <Luke-Jr> :/
 590 2014-05-25 14:29:12 <wumpus> but experimentation is much better done in external projects
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 592 2014-05-25 14:29:30 * Luke-Jr should try out CodeShark's wallet (again?) sometime
 593 2014-05-25 14:29:45 <wumpus> and we're seeing that no one really dares to touch the Bitcoin Core wallet code :p
 594 2014-05-25 14:30:07 <CodeShark> I'm glad to see bitcoind taking the direction of becoming a validation engine first and foremost
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 596 2014-05-25 14:30:24 <CodeShark> a validation/relay engine
 597 2014-05-25 14:30:24 <wumpus> at this point improving the infrastructure is most important for bitcoin core
 598 2014-05-25 14:30:50 <wumpus> and usability of the full node (making it easier to use/install/configure/monitor/etc)
 599 2014-05-25 14:30:50 <CodeShark> mining software was rightly pulled out early on - and wallet software should also be separate
 600 2014-05-25 14:30:53 Alina-malina has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 601 2014-05-25 14:31:23 <wumpus> CodeShark: I agree, but the problem is that currently none of the external wallets has a good RPC interface
 602 2014-05-25 14:31:53 <CodeShark> wumpus: I'll give you a sneak peek at CoinSocket (the RPC/websocket daemon for the CoinVault project) soon :)
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 606 2014-05-25 14:32:52 <wumpus> see for example the questions/replies here, no one knows about your wallet CodeShark :p https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/4093
 607 2014-05-25 14:33:33 <wumpus> armory has a preliminary json-rpc interface as well, but up until now was GUI only
 608 2014-05-25 14:34:07 <wumpus> there is a lot of focus on wallets with a smooth user interface, but not so much with a nice API
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 611 2014-05-25 14:34:40 <wumpus> so you could certainly bridge a gap there 
 612 2014-05-25 14:36:04 <CodeShark> ok, just added a comment :)
 613 2014-05-25 14:37:48 MolokoDesk has joined
 614 2014-05-25 14:37:59 <CodeShark> btw, I'm currently looking for code reviewers and QA engineers - if anyone's interested, please PM me
 615 2014-05-25 14:38:27 <wumpus> those are always hardest to find
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 617 2014-05-25 14:43:43 <CodeShark> the hard part is finding good ones that aren't already super busy with other projects
 618 2014-05-25 14:43:46 <Luke-Jr> otoh, they're also easier jobs than new code, in theory
 619 2014-05-25 14:44:12 <Luke-Jr> it's the ideal new-developer learning method
 620 2014-05-25 14:44:18 <Luke-Jr> if only we had aspiring new developers regularly..
 621 2014-05-25 14:44:54 <CodeShark> sipa had linked me an article a while ago about how writing code is actually easier than reading code
 622 2014-05-25 14:44:57 <wumpus> well it's hard to find people that can do deep code reviews, not that code reviews from newcomers aren't welcome, as long as they don't only focus on coding style and such
 623 2014-05-25 14:45:00 <Luke-Jr> there's at least a handful I've suggested to start on unit tests and review, but I don't think I've seen any of them actually do it :|
 624 2014-05-25 14:45:02 <CodeShark> I forgot the link
 625 2014-05-25 14:45:17 <wumpus> writing unit tests can be easy *and* very useful
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 627 2014-05-25 14:46:12 <wumpus> yes, reading code is difficult, or at least unpleasant to a lot of people
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 629 2014-05-25 14:46:49 <CodeShark> it's a skill that many developers don't fully develop
 630 2014-05-25 14:47:28 <CodeShark> I'd venture to say most :)
 631 2014-05-25 14:47:53 <wumpus> you'd expect it to be more common in open source though, where in many cases there is not much documentation beyond the code :)
 632 2014-05-25 14:48:24 <CodeShark> absolutely - I've gotten better at it as a result of working on open source projects
 633 2014-05-25 14:54:04 <CodeShark> http://theworldchanging.com/content/reading-code-harder-writing-code
 634 2014-05-25 14:55:10 <CodeShark> I think it was that Joel Spolsky article
 635 2014-05-25 14:56:29 <CodeShark> which is actually about why rewriting code from scratch is often a mistake
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 640 2014-05-25 15:03:37 <CodeShark> I don't necessarily completely agree with the article
 641 2014-05-25 15:04:08 <CodeShark> old code doesn't rust - but you do run into other problems, such as scalability and maintainability
 642 2014-05-25 15:04:55 <CodeShark> and cost of adding new features
 643 2014-05-25 15:06:15 nessence has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
 644 2014-05-25 15:07:02 <CodeShark> also, it is often possible to use the experience in implementing the first version to much more quickly reimplement it without making the same mistakes
 645 2014-05-25 15:08:02 <CodeShark> the second time around you're probably a better programmer anyhow, with better skills, techniques, and tools
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 647 2014-05-25 15:09:03 <CodeShark> but there's certainly a place for incremental refactoring
 648 2014-05-25 15:09:17 <CodeShark> especially in projects involving a large number of developers
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 650 2014-05-25 15:12:07 <CodeShark> or in situations where you no longer have the same developers who wrote the original code
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 661 2014-05-25 15:29:35 <Luke-Jr> it's helpful when code is modular enough that a given function is obviously right or wrong
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 690 2014-05-25 16:07:53 <jcorgan> ^^
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 692 2014-05-25 16:08:13 <jcorgan> I still find it hard to navigate bitcoind source
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 710 2014-05-25 16:28:49 <wumpus> especially main.cpp/h is too much of a hodge-podge, the rest of the files pretty straightforwardly contain what is on the tin
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 732 2014-05-25 16:44:22 <sipa> ;;diff
 733 2014-05-25 16:44:23 <gribble> 1.0455720138484837E10
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 735 2014-05-25 16:45:12 * Luke-Jr quietly hacks E10 off the end
 736 2014-05-25 16:45:55 <Luke-Jr> any ideas on debugging stack corruption that -fstack-protector -fstack-protector-all fails to catch? :/
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 816 2014-05-25 18:08:39 <justanotheruser> guard f40ph
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 818 2014-05-25 18:09:12 <justanotheruser> sorry
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 878 2014-05-25 19:15:33 <ryan-c> is there any any public documentation on how bitcoin is going to encrypt the blockchain on disk?
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 884 2014-05-25 19:19:15 <ryan-c> sipa: could you answer some questions for me on what constraints leveldb places on efforts to encrypt the blockchain?
 885 2014-05-25 19:20:06 <ryan-c> is it feasible to do it without a modified version of leveldb?
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 887 2014-05-25 19:22:09 <sipa> i know of no plans to encrypt the blockchain data
 888 2014-05-25 19:22:39 <sipa> there is some idea for obfuscating the chainstate database, whivh i assume is what you are talking about
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 890 2014-05-25 19:22:54 <sipa> the blockchain data isn't even stored in leveldb
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 908 2014-05-25 19:45:20 <ryan-c> sipa: Yeah, I was asking about obfuscation. What's stored in leveldb?
 909 2014-05-25 19:45:53 <sipa> block/blk*.dat is the raw block data
 910 2014-05-25 19:46:08 <sipa> block/index/* is a LevelDB database with a block index (information about individual blocks)
 911 2014-05-25 19:46:30 <sipa> chainstate/* is a LevelDB database with all information about unspent transaction outputs at the currently best known block
 912 2014-05-25 19:46:40 <sipa> it's the last one that would be obfuscated
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 914 2014-05-25 19:48:24 <ryan-c> sipa: Thanks. What changes when txindex=1, and why no obfuscation of the raw block data?
 915 2014-05-25 19:49:06 <sipa> with txindex=1, the database in blocks/index/* also contains information about all historical transactions (instead of just historical blocks)
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 968 2014-05-25 21:15:40 <justanotheruser> y check f40ph
 969 2014-05-25 21:15:48 <justanotheruser> sorry
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 980 2014-05-25 21:30:40 <devthink_> question for you EC heads: if pG + qG = (p+q)G, is pG + qG + rG = (p+q+r)G ???
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 990 2014-05-25 21:38:55 <sipa> devthink_: yes
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1000 2014-05-25 22:03:29 <devthink_> sipa: trying to add public keys, not getting valid results
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1011 2014-05-25 22:15:41 <scottansan> where can I read the latest on tree chains?
1012 2014-05-25 22:16:08 <sipa> one pings petertodd
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