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12 2014-06-02 00:11:24 <sipa> kanzure: there is a dos score in bitcoind
13 2014-06-02 00:11:35 <sipa> andnif you exceed a treshold you're disconnected and banned
14 2014-06-02 00:11:37 <kanzure> ah okay
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17 2014-06-02 00:12:21 <phantomcircuit> sipa, there's very few things you can do to actually increase that score though
18 2014-06-02 00:12:21 <kanzure> phantomcircuit: have you collected data about how long it takes for network saturation?
19 2014-06-02 00:12:36 <sipa> phantomcircuit: almost any consensus rule breaking triggers it
20 2014-06-02 00:12:49 <sipa> most policy things don't
21 2014-06-02 00:13:13 <sipa> and recently introduced consensus ruoes don't either, as that would risk splittingnthe network
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23 2014-06-02 00:13:46 <sipa> (old nodes broadcast something among themsepf, but grt banned by new nodes immediately when it propagates across the old-new boundary)
24 2014-06-02 00:14:05 <phantomcircuit> sipa, ah yeah i see
25 2014-06-02 00:14:19 <phantomcircuit> that's not an issue unless you're doing something super bizarre though
26 2014-06-02 00:14:39 <sipa> but an invalid signature or wrong pow or ... certainly does trigger it
27 2014-06-02 00:14:49 <phantomcircuit> right
28 2014-06-02 00:14:52 <phantomcircuit> lol
29 2014-06-02 00:15:02 <phantomcircuit> shipped ~2% of the network across the country yesterday
30 2014-06-02 00:15:12 <sipa> ;;nethash
31 2014-06-02 00:15:13 <gribble> 86679508.1869
32 2014-06-02 00:15:26 <phantomcircuit> literally fits on a single truck
33 2014-06-02 00:15:40 <sipa> > 1 PH/s? :o
34 2014-06-02 00:15:48 <phantomcircuit> sipa, lol yeah
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36 2014-06-02 00:16:07 * sipa has 1/100000th of thay
37 2014-06-02 00:16:12 <sipa> *that
38 2014-06-02 00:16:18 <phantomcircuit> aha
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40 2014-06-02 00:16:39 <phantomcircuit> sipa, i'd send you a ct box but there's like an 80% chance it wouldn't work on arrival
41 2014-06-02 00:16:40 <phantomcircuit> >.>
42 2014-06-02 00:16:42 <phantomcircuit> <.<
43 2014-06-02 00:18:32 <sipa> ct box?
44 2014-06-02 00:18:46 <phantomcircuit> cointerra
45 2014-06-02 00:18:50 <sipa> right
46 2014-06-02 00:19:14 <sipa> i haven't followed up on mining at all since my BFL jalapenos became worthless :p
47 2014-06-02 00:19:46 <phantomcircuit> sipa, they're still technically profitable upto iirc 250 Ph/s
48 2014-06-02 00:19:53 <sipa> too much business, too little fun
49 2014-06-02 00:19:55 <phantomcircuit> well at least they are if you have fairly cheap power
50 2014-06-02 00:20:02 <phantomcircuit> yeah
51 2014-06-02 00:20:07 <sipa> ;;genrate 11000
52 2014-06-02 00:20:08 <gribble> The expected generation output, at 11000.0 Mhps, given difficulty of 10455720138.5, is 0.000529085668655 BTC per day and 2.2045236194e-05 BTC per hour.
53 2014-06-02 00:20:24 <phantomcircuit> sipa, a lot of the people thinking that mining will be decentralized fundamentally dont understand the economics of it
54 2014-06-02 00:20:31 <jaekwon> how about the effect of using TCP? (swift works on UDP).
55 2014-06-02 00:20:52 <sipa> at 0.2$ per day i really won't bother
56 2014-06-02 00:20:57 <phantomcircuit> jaekwon, bitcoin connections are long lived, i dont think the congestion control stuff is much of an issue
57 2014-06-02 00:21:05 <jaekwon> gotcha.
58 2014-06-02 00:21:23 <phantomcircuit> sipa, yeah, but if you have 10k of them
59 2014-06-02 00:21:35 <phantomcircuit> you'd sell them on ebay
60 2014-06-02 00:21:36 <phantomcircuit> lol
61 2014-06-02 00:22:07 <jcorgan> phantomcircuit: almost all capital intensive businesses have economies of scale that result in a power law distribution of business sizes. Bitcoin mining is no different.
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63 2014-06-02 00:22:44 <phantomcircuit> jcorgan, except bitcoin mining isn't actually capital intensive outside of the short run
64 2014-06-02 00:23:08 <phantomcircuit> operations and straight power/cooling costs rapidly dwarf the capital costs
65 2014-06-02 00:23:31 <phantomcircuit> for an example
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67 2014-06-02 00:23:48 <kanzure> i've been meaning to do an analysis of the minimum capital requirements for asic production (outside of the existing asic fabs)
68 2014-06-02 00:23:49 <phantomcircuit> cointerra is selling mining contracts for $2.50/Gh (or they were they raised their prices)
69 2014-06-02 00:24:04 <phantomcircuit> the power/cooling on 1 Gh/s for their boxes is ~$1.25/year
70 2014-06-02 00:24:25 <jcorgan> well, with the current (last couple years?) continuous difficulty increase, replacement of mining gear with new, faster hardware is capital cost, no?
71 2014-06-02 00:24:33 <phantomcircuit> which leaves them with $1.25 to pay for the hardware, installation, and ongoing maintenance of all that shit
72 2014-06-02 00:24:43 <phantomcircuit> (hint they're going to lose tons of money at that price point)
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74 2014-06-02 00:25:15 <phantomcircuit> jcorgan, there isn't a whole lot of space between where bitcoin mining chips are and the limits of the technology
75 2014-06-02 00:25:44 <jcorgan> sure, i see that leveling off or at least becoming sub-exponential in a year or two
76 2014-06-02 00:25:59 <jaekwon> warehousing, cooling, and energy sources don't need to be replaced
77 2014-06-02 00:26:04 <phantomcircuit> jcorgan, uh much sooner than that
78 2014-06-02 00:26:28 <phantomcircuit> if we continue at 1%/day for another 8 months bitcoin miners will be using like 10 hoover dams worth of electricity
79 2014-06-02 00:26:34 <phantomcircuit> that doesn't seem very likely
80 2014-06-02 00:27:08 <jaekwon> well
81 2014-06-02 00:27:29 <phantomcircuit> we're at ~85Ph/s today
82 2014-06-02 00:27:33 <jaekwon> that day might come, for better or for worse.
83 2014-06-02 00:27:39 <phantomcircuit> given the mix of hardware going to that
84 2014-06-02 00:27:49 <phantomcircuit> im guessing that's about 150MW of electricity
85 2014-06-02 00:27:49 <jcorgan> fair enough. my original point was more that economies of scale result in power law distributions of production capacity, with high capital costs, even more so. so the presence of 2-3 large firms and a tail of many smaller ones is normal.
86 2014-06-02 00:28:25 <phantomcircuit> assuming we wont see full machines doing better than 0.3J/Gh within 12 months
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88 2014-06-02 00:28:45 <jcorgan> so hashrate distribution in the bitcoin economy doesn't seem overly centralized to me; it pretty much looks the way i'd expect.
89 2014-06-02 00:28:52 <phantomcircuit> and that all the hw is replaced with that more efficient hw
90 2014-06-02 00:28:55 <jcorgan> but this is probably #bitcoin, not -dev
91 2014-06-02 00:28:56 <kanzure> jcorgan: often i've been finding that the capital costs are balogna, or based on knowledge arbitration (industrial equipment often costs way more than it would cost you to build it)
92 2014-06-02 00:29:06 <phantomcircuit> that's 3200 Ph/s in 365 days
93 2014-06-02 00:29:38 <phantomcircuit> which would be enough power for like all of new york city
94 2014-06-02 00:30:04 <phantomcircuit> that would be difficult to cool even in the artic circle, you'd be raising the ambient temperature of the outside air...
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96 2014-06-02 00:30:53 <phantomcircuit> anyways
97 2014-06-02 00:30:57 <phantomcircuit> back to the original point
98 2014-06-02 00:31:17 <phantomcircuit> kanzure, i dont think you're going to substantially improve the initial sync
99 2014-06-02 00:31:42 <phantomcircuit> just compressing the blockchain data would be a much larger improvement than anything else
100 2014-06-02 00:32:02 <kanzure> if you have supernodes that are each connected to different parts of the graph and pipe your data straight to your supernodes, then transactions can reach network saturation faster, i think
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102 2014-06-02 00:32:55 <kanzure> oh, initial sync.. dunno.
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106 2014-06-02 00:34:45 <phantomcircuit> kanzure, that's true only if you assume that the first node to get the data doesn't have sufficient bandwidth to push the block to the entire network (to be fair that is almost universally the case)
107 2014-06-02 00:34:50 <jaekwon> seems like a good way is to propagate the blockheader first, then libswift on all the blocktransactions⦠even if the block is invalid, it should only happen occasionally & it's the miner's loss.
108 2014-06-02 00:35:08 <kanzure> when you mention swift you don't mean the bank-to-bank protocol?
109 2014-06-02 00:35:26 <jaekwon> no, libswift.
110 2014-06-02 00:35:33 <jaekwon> the UDP merkle based p2p protocol.
111 2014-06-02 00:35:34 <phantomcircuit> no confusingly he's talking about a p2p content network
112 2014-06-02 00:35:38 <kanzure> "swift is a multiparty transport protocol. Its mission is to disseminate content among a swarm of peers.", oh, like serf
113 2014-06-02 00:35:38 <jaekwon> :)
114 2014-06-02 00:37:54 <dgenr8> to build and maintain the tx index, I need to run with -reindex and -txindex once, then run with only -txindex thereafter. have I got that right?
115 2014-06-02 00:38:13 <phantomcircuit> 1MB * 7739 nodes = 7739 MB = 61912 megabits
116 2014-06-02 00:38:19 <phantomcircuit> assuming a 10gbps connection
117 2014-06-02 00:38:23 <jaekwon> yes, dgenr8
118 2014-06-02 00:38:41 <phantomcircuit> that's 6.1912 seconds to push to the entire network
119 2014-06-02 00:38:58 <phantomcircuit> getting the logic right on doing that without causing tcp congestion control is non trivial
120 2014-06-02 00:39:24 <dgenr8> jaekwon: ty
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123 2014-06-02 00:45:11 <jaekwon> kanzure: not familiar with serf. i'd say libswift is more like libtorrent. is serf resistant to malicious nodes, or better suited for intranets?
124 2014-06-02 00:45:19 <mr_burdell> does anyone know of a python script that runs the isstandard checks on a transaction?
125 2014-06-02 00:45:38 <kanzure> jaekwon: it's just a gossip protocol
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166 2014-06-02 01:47:16 <brandondahler> Does anyone know if there is any existing documentation of the LevelDB entry types
167 2014-06-02 01:48:14 <brandondahler> I know it is all in the txdb.cpp file, just wondering if there's actual documentation
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170 2014-06-02 01:52:23 <maaku> no
171 2014-06-02 01:52:35 <maaku> the source code is the documentation
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229 2014-06-02 03:23:28 <justanotheruser> There isn't any page documenting what all the source files in bitcoin core exactly do is there? The code is someone hard to follow with all the different function calls and threads.
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275 2014-06-02 03:52:54 <brandondahler> Would anybody have feelings on a proposal to split all of the leveldb entry types into their own leveldbs? The rationale is that it would localize the types of reindexing required when one has been corrupted.
276 2014-06-02 03:53:46 <justanotheruser> ^interested in the answer
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290 2014-06-02 04:05:01 <gmaxwell> brandondahler: uh, they're already split.
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353 2014-06-02 05:20:21 <warren> 2d5367ee5d06224773c5064f6f3ea9d742a8c7780252c4e64b5aa002caff4732 qt-linux32-4.6.4-gitian-r1.tar.gz
354 2014-06-02 05:20:21 <warren> e503b2b8c8f91f23dfa4442aa2b5cf84075571e291296100003fcac3362438e8 qt-linux64-4.6.4-gitian-r1.tar.gz
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390 2014-06-02 06:18:35 <michagogo> warren: okay, so not just me
391 2014-06-02 06:18:36 neozaru has joined
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395 2014-06-02 06:26:41 <michagogo> Is there a second set of hashes besides wumpus's to check for determinism in the end product?
396 2014-06-02 06:26:55 aegis has left ("Leaving")
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398 2014-06-02 06:28:31 <wumpus> gavin also uploaded sigs to gitian
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400 2014-06-02 06:29:13 <michagogo> Did they match?
401 2014-06-02 06:30:14 <michagogo> (On phone atm)
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404 2014-06-02 06:30:23 <wumpus> for the linux build it seems -cli and bitcoind match, but not -qt
405 2014-06-02 06:30:37 <michagogo> Ouch.
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408 2014-06-02 06:31:49 <michagogo> Later today I should be able to give you my qt, if it helps...
409 2014-06-02 06:32:01 analogmind_work has joined
410 2014-06-02 06:32:04 <wumpus> windows matches
411 2014-06-02 06:32:15 <michagogo> (Note to self: upload results next time)
412 2014-06-02 06:32:29 <wumpus> the final executables are fine, too
413 2014-06-02 06:32:43 <michagogo> Fine as is they work?
414 2014-06-02 06:32:45 brson has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
415 2014-06-02 06:32:45 <wumpus> if you don't have qt anymore
416 2014-06-02 06:32:46 <michagogo> That's good.
417 2014-06-02 06:32:48 gimmetime has joined
418 2014-06-02 06:32:49 <wumpus> no, if you could upload them
419 2014-06-02 06:33:36 <michagogo> Oh, I see
420 2014-06-02 06:33:41 <michagogo> I don't have finals yet
421 2014-06-02 06:33:55 <michagogo> Part way through the assorted deps when I had to go
422 2014-06-02 06:34:40 gues has joined
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424 2014-06-02 06:35:02 <wumpus> mac dmg also doesn't match between gavin and me
425 2014-06-02 06:35:21 <michagogo> wumpus: I just mean that I didn't upload them before I went to sleep, so I can't point you at them now
426 2014-06-02 06:35:38 <wumpus> so I suppose rc1 is officially dead...
427 2014-06-02 06:35:43 <michagogo> (They're inside a VM on my laptop)
428 2014-06-02 06:35:59 <wumpus> ok, no problem, if you can upload them later that'd be useful
429 2014-06-02 06:37:14 <michagogo> wumpus: they will be at gitian.michagogo.cadoth.net
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440 2014-06-02 06:44:16 <SomeoneWeird> is there a tutorial somewhere about setting up gitian?
441 2014-06-02 06:44:41 <wumpus> SomeoneWeird: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/master/doc/gitian-building.md
442 2014-06-02 06:45:13 brson has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
443 2014-06-02 06:45:30 <SomeoneWeird> wumpus, thx
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450 2014-06-02 06:54:15 <SomeoneWeird> wumpus, seems the netinst link is broken, btw
451 2014-06-02 06:54:31 <wumpus> sigh, already
452 2014-06-02 06:54:33 gues has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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454 2014-06-02 07:00:36 <wumpus> seems 7.5.0 was released, and they threw away the 7.4.0 files immediately
455 2014-06-02 07:00:40 <SomeoneWeird> http://ftp.acc.umu.se/debian-cd/7.5.0/amd64/iso-cd/debian-7.5.0-amd64-netinst.iso
456 2014-06-02 07:00:41 <SomeoneWeird> heh, yeah
457 2014-06-02 07:00:49 <wumpus> I don't think there's any problem with using 7.5 tho
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460 2014-06-02 07:11:13 <michagogo> 7.4 is still available at http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/archive/7.4.0/amd64/iso-cd/debian-7.4.0-amd64-netinst.iso
461 2014-06-02 07:11:56 cystic has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
462 2014-06-02 07:11:57 <michagogo> But if it's like Ubuntu's point releases, it doesn't matter because an apt-get upgrade will bring you to 7.5.0 anyway
463 2014-06-02 07:12:18 <michagogo> (it's really annoying how I keep needing to reinstall VBox guest additions...)
464 2014-06-02 07:12:40 <michagogo> Just yesterday, I booted and it worked fine
465 2014-06-02 07:12:58 <michagogo> But now when I start it again, nope. No integration.
466 2014-06-02 07:13:17 abossard_ has joined
467 2014-06-02 07:13:18 <michagogo> (and the installer even detects and removes the current installation...)
468 2014-06-02 07:14:55 <wumpus> strange; I never had problems with that
469 2014-06-02 07:15:20 <wumpus> somehow it must disable/remove the virtualbox-guest-* packages?
470 2014-06-02 07:15:57 <michagogo> Oh, wait a minute
471 2014-06-02 07:16:09 <michagogo> Maybe it has to do with the updates I installed
472 2014-06-02 07:16:35 <michagogo> Oh, actually, I think the guest extensions hook into the kernel
473 2014-06-02 07:17:03 <michagogo> Maybe when the kernel gets upgraded they break.
474 2014-06-02 07:17:29 <wumpus> in theory, 'DKMS' should automatically build them for the new kernel
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487 2014-06-02 07:31:33 <michagogo> wumpus: ping
488 2014-06-02 07:31:42 <michagogo> qt uploading right now
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491 2014-06-02 07:32:23 <wumpus> I think I already found the reason for the non-determinism, a qt installation date snuck into the host utils (lrelease etc)
492 2014-06-02 07:32:47 <wumpus> that shouldn't affect the end product though, so it doesn't explain why gavin's and mine build is different
493 2014-06-02 07:34:13 <michagogo> wumpus: 32 is up, 64 uploading
494 2014-06-02 07:34:31 plaprade has joined
495 2014-06-02 07:34:43 <michagogo> Actually, I'll kill my windows deps build and build linux release first
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509 2014-06-02 07:50:02 <wumpus> michagogo: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/4270
510 2014-06-02 07:53:17 <michagogo> wumpus: Okay, I'll build qt with that change after linux finishes building
511 2014-06-02 07:53:41 <wumpus> yes I wonder what end product you get
512 2014-06-02 07:54:01 <michagogo> Did you get Gavin's outputs to compare, or just the sigs?
513 2014-06-02 07:54:02 at0mat has joined
514 2014-06-02 07:54:42 <wumpus> if it matches mine, then it's caused by Gavin's non-standard build setup
515 2014-06-02 07:55:10 <wumpus> I compare the gitian .assert file
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518 2014-06-02 07:56:28 <michagogo> Do you KVM or LXC?
519 2014-06-02 07:56:45 <wumpus> I really doubt that matters here, but I use KVM
520 2014-06-02 07:57:09 <michagogo> Well, it's more that I'd like to make sure we have at least one person using kvm
521 2014-06-02 07:57:43 shesek has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
522 2014-06-02 07:57:44 <michagogo> Okay, don't have an assert yet, but 32-bit did finish
523 2014-06-02 07:58:09 yubrew has joined
524 2014-06-02 07:58:22 <michagogo> c33d0ed67703a4b82d8e8dda5f3fdd65ecace53cb8324194d1baa093f0e5b8c1 build/out/bin/32/bitcoin-cli
525 2014-06-02 07:58:22 <michagogo> 01466bc58f824c6bb9092f8e74534a8d802018b54981715f2b061fed6c7f3a12 build/out/bin/32/bitcoind
526 2014-06-02 07:58:22 <michagogo> 0d79efee384d8af6cd8d4c6d5ef173d2329a3f9bd8f686990ddfb3b5cd808d44 build/out/bin/32/bitcoin-qt
527 2014-06-02 07:58:22 <michagogo> b28886a94550d8d1f347b27c53517d7cdf8535e0d740396ce22de56179bd20bd build/out/bin/32/test_bitcoin
528 2014-06-02 07:58:22 <michagogo> 72d824bf204ea070e302ca506e55d36a27ac90c1fd8416f51ca92f4c1ea4dd57 build/out/bin/32/test_bitcoin-qt
529 2014-06-02 07:58:22 <michagogo> bf16510ce7b46b338348e9548eaae0ed05cd76fc647748af501d85be889d801c build/out/src/bitcoin-0.9.2.tar.gz
530 2014-06-02 07:58:58 <wumpus> matches mine (https://github.com/bitcoin/gitian.sigs/blob/master/0.9.2rc1/laanwj/bitcoin-build.assert)
531 2014-06-02 07:59:40 <wumpus> so as I expected, gavin's is the odd duck out :)
532 2014-06-02 08:00:38 <michagogo> Interesting
533 2014-06-02 08:01:25 <michagogo> What does he use again?
534 2014-06-02 08:01:33 <michagogo> VBox with a bunch of packages installed for all builds?
535 2014-06-02 08:01:39 <wumpus> maybe he's somehow still building against qt 4.8 dev packages instaad of the qt 4.6 we build ourselves
536 2014-06-02 08:01:41 <wumpus> yes
537 2014-06-02 08:02:01 <michagogo> I guess he didn't post his bins somewhere?
538 2014-06-02 08:02:36 yubrew has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
539 2014-06-02 08:02:51 <wumpus> in that case his output will be problematic, as it will not be compatible with older linux versions
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544 2014-06-02 08:04:49 <wumpus> we explicitly set PKG_CONFIG_PATH to "$STAGING/lib/pkgconfig" , so from what I understand our qt library should take precedence...
545 2014-06-02 08:05:50 <wumpus> let's see what happens if I add back the conflicting qt dev package
546 2014-06-02 08:05:59 beachandbytes has joined
547 2014-06-02 08:06:45 <michagogo> Heh... https://plus.google.com/app/basic/photos/+BrunoOliveira/album/6019700701442528065/6019700701980497298
548 2014-06-02 08:07:29 <michagogo> erm, that's the mobile version. oops.
549 2014-06-02 08:08:07 <michagogo> https://plus.google.com/photos/+BrunoOliveira/album/6019700701442528065/6019700701980497298
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563 2014-06-02 08:21:35 <michagogo> 256fed66c98f362b78e9e98e4cd112b36e579e99c290567bfaf8a30fd3e3138e bin/64/bitcoin-cli
564 2014-06-02 08:21:36 <michagogo> 89d3dc0093dd586d799d3c556f7777d154553056a48249beffb1c5fc4931235e bin/64/bitcoin-qt
565 2014-06-02 08:21:36 <michagogo> 93fafc01d702337ab23c24ecc624f767a69ff82ff07ca835db653312630c7eb5 bin/64/bitcoind
566 2014-06-02 08:21:36 <michagogo> 5209679c2e776bb9b498a17aef50776c01cae8c35da44338281b887a4d62b303 bin/64/test_bitcoin
567 2014-06-02 08:21:36 <michagogo> 8137465173b2ee352fba63bd8cd12063d0533c9270a4aa895511a8f92f1a1086 bin/64/test_bitcoin-qt
568 2014-06-02 08:22:28 <wumpus> michagogo: no need to paste all that here, you can just compare with my gitian assert
569 2014-06-02 08:24:12 adam3us has joined
570 2014-06-02 08:24:17 <t7> thats a long hash
571 2014-06-02 08:24:29 raistlinthewiz has joined
572 2014-06-02 08:24:48 <wumpus> HAH, I managed to match gavin's hashes by adding the libqt4-dev package
573 2014-06-02 08:25:53 <michagogo> Heh.
574 2014-06-02 08:26:13 <wumpus> this sucks though
575 2014-06-02 08:26:13 <t7> i guess its because its not in base64
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579 2014-06-02 08:29:33 <sipa> wumpus: what's your hypothesis?
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583 2014-06-02 08:32:08 <michagogo> wumpus: are you able to figure out from the binary what's different
584 2014-06-02 08:32:09 <michagogo> ?
585 2014-06-02 08:32:35 <wumpus> sipa, michagogo see my post in https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/4270
586 2014-06-02 08:33:11 <michagogo> Well, IMHO while it's annoying, it's not our problem per se
587 2014-06-02 08:33:39 <michagogo> It works fine in the configuration that we specify, with a clean gitian image
588 2014-06-02 08:35:02 <wumpus> right, if gavin were to uninstall the libqt4 dev packages from his VM, it would work
589 2014-06-02 08:35:16 <sipa> how does it have those in his VM?
590 2014-06-02 08:35:18 <wumpus> if that avoids having to scrap rc1 that'd be nice
591 2014-06-02 08:35:32 <wumpus> sipa: he has a VM preloaded with all kinds of packages
592 2014-06-02 08:35:34 <michagogo> sipa: he has a whole bunch of extra packages in his base vm
593 2014-06-02 08:35:53 <michagogo> (as you can tell from looking at his base manifests)
594 2014-06-02 08:36:50 <sipa> ic
595 2014-06-02 08:37:30 <michagogo> wumpus: did you say the os x was also not matching?
596 2014-06-02 08:37:42 damethos has joined
597 2014-06-02 08:37:48 <wumpus> michagogo: yes; all the inputs seem to match, but not the dmg itself
598 2014-06-02 08:37:59 <wumpus> michagogo: let's see what you get, may be the same problem
599 2014-06-02 08:38:25 <wumpus> there are just too many gitian environments that we have to support :/
600 2014-06-02 08:38:39 <sipa> ... wasn't that the problem gitian was supposed to solve? :)
601 2014-06-02 08:38:41 <michagogo> IMHO we shouldn't support environments like Gavin...
602 2014-06-02 08:38:47 <michagogo> Gavin's*
603 2014-06-02 08:38:50 <wumpus> sipa: yes :P it's sad
604 2014-06-02 08:39:34 <michagogo> Installing a bunch of packages in the base VM kinda defeats the purpose of gitian
605 2014-06-02 08:39:43 <michagogo> Well, maybe not exactly
606 2014-06-02 08:39:54 <sipa> how about we add support for some deterministic turing machine to LLVM?
607 2014-06-02 08:39:58 <wumpus> we reallly need a consistentVM that can be used on every OS, and behaves on every OS in the same way, but doesn't forego processor acceleration to achieve that ...
608 2014-06-02 08:40:09 <sipa> :)
609 2014-06-02 08:40:37 <michagogo> Well, the issue is that you need utilities on the host as well
610 2014-06-02 08:40:47 <michagogo> apt-cacher-ng, etc
611 2014-06-02 08:41:01 <sipa> wumpus: i'd like to see 4261 in rc2, if there is one :)
612 2014-06-02 08:41:03 <michagogo> Oh, I see what you're saying (maybe?)
613 2014-06-02 08:41:54 <wumpus> sipa: ok
614 2014-06-02 08:42:07 <michagogo> A VM that would run the same way on any OS, within which we could run a Debian or an Ubuntu or something, within which we could run KVM gitian?
615 2014-06-02 08:42:39 <wumpus> michagogo: we need platform independent versions of the host tools, for example implement all the stuff in python/ruby
616 2014-06-02 08:42:48 <michagogo> Right
617 2014-06-02 08:42:57 <michagogo> What tools are involved here again?
618 2014-06-02 08:43:01 <wumpus> michagogo: mimicing apt-cacher-ng behavior would be pretty easy in python
619 2014-06-02 08:43:05 <michagogo> ;;google gitian-builder
620 2014-06-02 08:43:05 <gribble> Gitian: a secure software distribution method: <http://gitian.org/>; devrandom/gitian-builder · GitHub: <https://github.com/devrandom/gitian-builder>; Building bitcoin with gitian-builder - Gists - GitHub: <https://gist.github.com/806265>
621 2014-06-02 08:43:10 <wumpus> it's just a web proxy/cache...
622 2014-06-02 08:43:28 <wumpus> I think the difficult part is building the VM image
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624 2014-06-02 08:43:38 <wumpus> it requires all kinds of obscure tools
625 2014-06-02 08:43:47 <wumpus> but once that's built, from there it's easy
626 2014-06-02 08:43:49 <michagogo> sudo apt-get install git apache2 apt-cacher-ng python-vm-builder ruby qemu-utils qemu-kvm debootstrap lxc
627 2014-06-02 08:44:33 <wumpus> note that apache2 is not needed
628 2014-06-02 08:44:52 <michagogo> sudo vmbuilder kvm ubuntu --rootsize 10240 --arch=$ARCH --suite=$SUITE --addpkg=$addpkg --removepkg=$removepkg --ssh-key=var/id_dsa.pub --ssh-user-key=var/id_dsa.pub --mirror=$MIRROR --security-mirror=$SECURITY_MIRROR --dest=$OUT --flavour=$FLAVOUR --firstboot=`pwd`/target-bin/bootstrap-fixup
629 2014-06-02 08:45:06 <michagogo> That's the command that actually builds the VM, it looks like
630 2014-06-02 08:45:13 <wumpus> yes the vmbuilder/debootstrap stuff
631 2014-06-02 08:45:39 <wumpus> I wonder if we could build the VM in a VM
632 2014-06-02 08:45:42 <wumpus> oh wait :)
633 2014-06-02 08:45:57 <michagogo> We do :P
634 2014-06-02 08:46:21 <wumpus> right, that's what vmbuilder does, and vmbuilder is just a set of ruby scripts isn't it?
635 2014-06-02 08:46:34 <michagogo> https://launchpad.net/vmbuilder
636 2014-06-02 08:46:45 chainey has quit (Quit: chainey)
637 2014-06-02 08:47:23 <michagogo> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~vmbuilder-dev/vmbuilder/0.12/files
638 2014-06-02 08:47:50 <wumpus> anyhow: creating a debian VM image and using LXC inside, as described in my gitian guide, works reliably
639 2014-06-02 08:48:35 <wumpus> you get this container-in-a-VM thing which isn't very elegant, but it works, and takes no extra work to port utilities and such...
640 2014-06-02 08:48:46 <michagogo> Right
641 2014-06-02 08:49:08 <michagogo> Basically what I use (except that I use an Ubuntu VM)
642 2014-06-02 08:51:06 <warren> vmbuilder is python
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646 2014-06-02 08:52:59 <michagogo> Well, yeah
647 2014-06-02 08:53:08 <michagogo> The package's name is python-vm-builder :P
648 2014-06-02 08:53:43 <michagogo> I think it uses debootstrap, though
649 2014-06-02 08:53:50 <michagogo> I don't know what that's written in
650 2014-06-02 08:55:16 ericmuyser has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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652 2014-06-02 08:56:24 <wumpus> those linux-specific tools are used to extract the partition for LXC
653 2014-06-02 08:56:36 yubrew has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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655 2014-06-02 09:01:21 <michagogo> erm
656 2014-06-02 09:01:28 <michagogo> wumpus: I don't match hashes on the windows deps
657 2014-06-02 09:01:37 <wumpus> which makes sense, as LXC is linux specific in the first place
658 2014-06-02 09:01:40 <michagogo> I have acd59690a49dfbad6b436379843fe4ad1857ad91c603d52506690bc55f2a01a4 bitcoin-deps-win32-gitian-r12.zip
659 2014-06-02 09:01:40 <michagogo> and a3e5a62fcdad81f758e41848035e6a27be390981a14d590f2cf2509f87417a42 bitcoin-deps-win64-gitian-r12.zip
660 2014-06-02 09:01:50 <michagogo> Oh, wait a second
661 2014-06-02 09:02:31 <michagogo> The win deps version got bumped from 11 to 12
662 2014-06-02 09:02:39 <michagogo> Without updating r-p.md
663 2014-06-02 09:02:58 <wumpus> ok - the files match mine
664 2014-06-02 09:03:26 <michagogo> looks like it was https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/commit/25d4911e8672a740e89d30c26373099e60242db8#diff-e583cf69ba561d0ad5169409d2c8a091R16
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667 2014-06-02 09:04:03 <wumpus> ok
668 2014-06-02 09:04:15 <wumpus> going to add a commit to #4270 for that
669 2014-06-02 09:04:58 <michagogo> Maybe retitle it
670 2014-06-02 09:05:07 <wumpus> no
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672 2014-06-02 09:05:25 <wumpus> really not important enough for that
673 2014-06-02 09:05:47 <michagogo> Can PR titles not be edited?
674 2014-06-02 09:06:23 <wumpus> sure they can, but I don't want to change the discussion in the PR, the actual problem that we have now is non-matching linux output
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679 2014-06-02 09:07:16 <michagogo> But if you're sticking in something unrelated in the same PR...
680 2014-06-02 09:07:27 <wumpus> who cares it's just a doc update
681 2014-06-02 09:07:45 roconnor has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
682 2014-06-02 09:08:07 <michagogo> I want to go through release-process.md and clean it up a bit anyway
683 2014-06-02 09:08:31 <michagogo> A bunch of stuff was messed up in the os x merge, indents and stuff
684 2014-06-02 09:08:38 <michagogo> I'll just put the new hash in there
685 2014-06-02 09:08:43 * michagogo updates his fork
686 2014-06-02 09:08:46 <warren> sorry, did I miss a call for gitian sigs?
687 2014-06-02 09:08:53 <wumpus> michagogo: already pushed it to the PR
688 2014-06-02 09:09:11 <wumpus> warren: 0.9.2rc1 was tagged
689 2014-06-02 09:09:23 <warren> need more?
690 2014-06-02 09:09:32 <wumpus> is usual, it's really painful
691 2014-06-02 09:09:35 <wumpus> as*
692 2014-06-02 09:09:43 <wumpus> warren: always!
693 2014-06-02 09:10:16 <michagogo> My PR should be off of master, right?
694 2014-06-02 09:10:29 MiningBuddy has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
695 2014-06-02 09:11:15 <wumpus> yes
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698 2014-06-02 09:13:18 <warren> "I've managed to reproduce @gavinandresen 's gitian build by adding the libqt4-dev package to the gitian-linux.yml"
699 2014-06-02 09:13:31 <warren> wumpus: this is the same reason why cory insisted on a clean VM for the mac build
700 2014-06-02 09:13:42 <michagogo> warren: yep...
701 2014-06-02 09:14:13 <wumpus> warren: yes, non-clean VMs make our work a lot harder
702 2014-06-02 09:14:27 <warren> hmm, my x86_64 is nonclean
703 2014-06-02 09:14:32 <warren> I made i386 clean just for mac
704 2014-06-02 09:15:28 <wumpus> well you could just uninstall the libqt4-dev package from the vm (and possible other packages that come with it...)
705 2014-06-02 09:16:08 <wumpus> no idea if there are seperate dev packages for all the qt components, but they'd all have to be removed
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723 2014-06-02 09:45:56 <michagogo> Gah, I think I may have a bad shell extension
724 2014-06-02 09:46:07 <michagogo> Right-clicking files is freezing Explorer :-/
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726 2014-06-02 09:47:01 <gdm85> michagogo: you are trying to build in an LXC container?
727 2014-06-02 09:47:16 <michagogo> gdm85: I am building in LXC, yes
728 2014-06-02 09:47:40 <gdm85> michagogo: I gave this a try too. which version are you building?
729 2014-06-02 09:47:53 <michagogo> Working on v0.9.2rc1 atm. Why?
730 2014-06-02 09:48:17 <gdm85> michagogo: I am hitting 0.9.1. just curious. do you get matching signatures with other 0.9.2rc1?
731 2014-06-02 09:48:45 <michagogo> gdm85: Still working on Win and OS X, but I matched Linux with wumpus
732 2014-06-02 09:49:23 <gdm85> I agree with wumpus about using as much as possible deterministic compilers..
733 2014-06-02 09:49:30 <michagogo> Eh?
734 2014-06-02 09:50:46 <gdm85> michagogo: a while ago he said "we reallly need a consistentVM that can be used on every OS, and behaves on every OS in the same way"
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736 2014-06-02 09:50:56 <gdm85> that would be nice
737 2014-06-02 09:51:05 yubrew has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
738 2014-06-02 09:51:35 <michagogo> Ah, yes
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740 2014-06-02 09:51:45 <michagogo> We already use deterministic compilers :P
741 2014-06-02 09:51:53 <gdm85> btw, check out https://github.com/gdm85/tenku/tree/master/docker/gitian-host and the issue at gitian-builder: https://github.com/devrandom/gitian-builder/issues/53
742 2014-06-02 09:52:13 <gdm85> I managed to make this build environment through a privileged docker container
743 2014-06-02 09:52:48 <gdm85> I didn't get (all) matching signatures at first try, but I will make a second attempt
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746 2014-06-02 09:57:40 <michagogo> Does the OS X build just output the single .dmg?
747 2014-06-02 09:57:57 <gdm85> unfortunately I am targeting only Linux, can't say
748 2014-06-02 09:58:36 <gdm85> good to know we use deterministic compilers, I was scared a bit by the paper about DDC
749 2014-06-02 09:58:42 * gdm85 http://www.dwheeler.com/trusting-trust/
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765 2014-06-02 10:35:21 <rebroad> Is anything like darksend going to be added to bitcoin anytime soon? Somehow I think this is something needed if we're to address the darkcoin hype (their implementation actually doesn't even work, from what I've read)
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771 2014-06-02 10:47:45 <michagogo> wumpus: Hm, should we also zip up or rename the dmg?
772 2014-06-02 10:48:22 <michagogo> It's kinda weird that the output of the gbuilds is bitcoin-${VERSION}-linux-gitian.zip, bitcoin-${VERSION}-win-gitian.zip, and Bitcoin-Qt.dmg
773 2014-06-02 10:49:45 <wumpus> rebroad: I doubt it will land in bitcoin core's wallet any time soon, not much active development happening there, but for example Amir's darkwallet already has it
774 2014-06-02 10:50:07 <buZz> darksend = coinjoin , right?
775 2014-06-02 10:50:14 <michagogo> Okay, I have win deps built and osx natives built
776 2014-06-02 10:50:16 <wumpus> yes
777 2014-06-02 10:50:20 <buZz> alright :)
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779 2014-06-02 10:50:28 <michagogo> I g2g for now, though
780 2014-06-02 10:50:36 <rebroad> is darkwallet or coinjoin something that could be incorporated into bitcoin-qt?
781 2014-06-02 10:50:38 <buZz> all these 'dark....' names are way too confusing
782 2014-06-02 10:50:47 <michagogo> (all the various win intermediates, I mean)
783 2014-06-02 10:51:03 <wumpus> rebroad: as I've said before: if the implementation makes sense, sure
784 2014-06-02 10:51:04 <buZz> darkwallet replaces bitcoin-qt
785 2014-06-02 10:51:34 <wumpus> rebroad: darkcoin's implementation is not even open source at this point so who is to say
786 2014-06-02 10:51:41 <michagogo> Oh, also: Do we have the OS X intermediates deterministic yet?
787 2014-06-02 10:51:44 <wumpus> rebroad: I'd suggest just using a different wallet that does implement it though
788 2014-06-02 10:51:48 <michagogo> I have 512bc0622c883e2e0f4cbc3fedfd8c2402d06c004ce6fb32303cc2a6f405b6df osx-native-depends-r3.tar.gz
789 2014-06-02 10:51:51 <rebroad> darkcoin is on github isn't it?
790 2014-06-02 10:52:18 <buZz> darkwallet has nothing to do with darkcoin
791 2014-06-02 10:53:29 <Apocalyptic> anyway all this darkcoin talk is off-topic
792 2014-06-02 10:54:38 <buZz> darkwallet is a bitcoin wallet
793 2014-06-02 10:54:47 <michagogo> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/4271
794 2014-06-02 10:54:57 <michagogo> bbl
795 2014-06-02 10:55:26 <buZz> and has an opensource coinjoin implementation
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799 2014-06-02 10:58:05 <wumpus> right
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907 2014-06-02 13:20:29 <wumpus> warren: btw, had any luck yet debugging the setgenerate issue?
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913 2014-06-02 13:25:03 <hearn> hi there
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919 2014-06-02 13:27:14 <wumpus> hello
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931 2014-06-02 13:55:17 <gavinandresen> michagogo: I bet it won't....
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935 2014-06-02 13:56:26 <michagogo> gavinandresen: hm?
936 2014-06-02 13:56:43 <michagogo> Oh
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943 2014-06-02 14:06:00 <wumpus> gavinandresen: btw, if you uninstall libqt4-dev from your gitian vm, you should get the same linux output as the rest (see https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/4270 - it picks the wrong qt headers)
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945 2014-06-02 14:06:57 <gavinandresen> wumpus: ok, will do.
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947 2014-06-02 14:07:16 <gavinandresen> I need to do that for both the i386 and amd64 vms?
948 2014-06-02 14:08:00 <wumpus> gavinandresen: yes, the problem exist on both
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950 2014-06-02 14:08:16 <AndyOfiesh> I tested a couple multi sig p2sh txs with 3 of 5 and 5 of 5 on main net (total value under $20), the network didn't like it when I tried to spend the TxOuts. Had no problem with 2 of 3 and 3 of 4. Are these to big to be standard?
951 2014-06-02 14:08:29 Belxjander has joined
952 2014-06-02 14:08:42 <michagogo> gavinandresen: you bet what won't?
953 2014-06-02 14:08:51 p8m has joined
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955 2014-06-02 14:09:18 <gavinandresen> michagogo: I bet the non-deterministic intermediate qt output won't affect the final binaries (and it doesn't)
956 2014-06-02 14:09:23 <michagogo> Ah
957 2014-06-02 14:09:25 <AndyOfiesh> Luke-Jr can you help me mine the spend of these two tx-outs
958 2014-06-02 14:09:31 SittingBull has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
959 2014-06-02 14:09:38 <michagogo> Yeah, turns out it's just a build date stamp
960 2014-06-02 14:09:53 uiop has joined
961 2014-06-02 14:10:12 <gavinandresen> I hate Mondays⦠having hardware trouble with this machine....
962 2014-06-02 14:10:19 <michagogo> gavinandresen: how come you don't use clean VMs, btw?
963 2014-06-02 14:10:23 <wumpus> AndyOfiesh: that's strange, P2SH should be able to handle much larger M-of-N transactions
964 2014-06-02 14:10:49 <AndyOfiesh> That's good to know, I can start looking at other reasons why it wasn't accepted
965 2014-06-02 14:11:09 <AndyOfiesh> I was under that impression as well, or I wouldn't have risked any real btc on a test.
966 2014-06-02 14:11:11 <gavinandresen> michagogo: because building is much faster when the VMs don't have to download and install all dependencies every time
967 2014-06-02 14:12:23 <michagogo> gavinandresen: download? Isn't it cached?
968 2014-06-02 14:12:39 <wumpus> AndyOfiesh: 15-of-15 (1650 bytes txin) is max
969 2014-06-02 14:13:15 <wumpus> michagogo: it's cached; unfortunately, the installation is the slow part
970 2014-06-02 14:13:19 <dabura667> Anyone familiar with pre-p2kh? Out of curiosity, when they needed to do <pubkey> OP_CHECKSIG... how did they know the pubkey? Were bitcoin addresses different back then?
971 2014-06-02 14:13:47 <gavinandresen> michagogo: if you run apt-cacher-ng, which I'm not because I'm VirtualBox on OSX. Although latest way of doing VirtualBox builds might cache the right stuff and I'm just stuck in the way I first did it
972 2014-06-02 14:13:54 Belxjander has quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
973 2014-06-02 14:14:41 <gavinandresen> dabura667: there were no bitcoin addresses back then, you would put in the IP address of the person you wanted to pay and a direct connection was made
974 2014-06-02 14:14:58 <gavinandresen> (if they didn't happen to be online at the time then you were out of luck)
975 2014-06-02 14:15:25 benrcole has joined
976 2014-06-02 14:15:55 <dabura667> gavinandresen: thanks for the answer. I am writing some stuff on the history of Bitcoin in Japanese. This will help a lot. Did people usually meet up on IRC to send to each other?
977 2014-06-02 14:16:18 <gavinandresen> dabura667: I don't know, that was all before my time.
978 2014-06-02 14:16:21 <wumpus> right, there was a little protocol to negotiate the transaction directly over IP, it was removed at some point as it was very vulnerable to MITM attacks
979 2014-06-02 14:16:49 <dabura667> awesome. Thanks so much.
980 2014-06-02 14:17:15 <wumpus> the payment protocol could be seen as a better, more secure version of it
981 2014-06-02 14:17:16 yubrew has joined
982 2014-06-02 14:18:09 <wumpus> (with the payment protocol you also don't really need addresses, the payment message could contain a pay-to-pubkey transaction)
983 2014-06-02 14:18:56 <dabura667> hmmm, interesting.
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999 2014-06-02 14:37:23 <hearn> dabura667: mostly email
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1001 2014-06-02 14:37:31 <hearn> dabura667: not sure irc was used much in the very early days
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1021 2014-06-02 14:58:37 <michagogo> Hm, did pay-to-IP work in the opposite direction?
1022 2014-06-02 14:58:59 <michagogo> (Connect to someone to request payment)
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1025 2014-06-02 15:02:41 <coryfields> wumpus: around?
1026 2014-06-02 15:02:48 <coryfields> i'm trying to make sense of the linux/qt build issue
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1028 2014-06-02 15:03:45 <coryfields> wumpus: i don't see how that could happen unless gitian environments have been mixed
1029 2014-06-02 15:04:10 <michagogo> coryfields: Gavin installed a whole bunch of packages in his base vm
1030 2014-06-02 15:04:34 <michagogo> (Since he doesn't have apt-cacher)
1031 2014-06-02 15:04:43 <coryfields> well, did someone properly smack him? :)
1032 2014-06-02 15:04:46 Belxjander has quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
1033 2014-06-02 15:05:13 <michagogo> coryfields: I don't know about smack
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1035 2014-06-02 15:05:30 <gavinandresen> Being able to say "Please don't pay attention to that package over there behind the curtain" ⦠should be a required feature for any sane build system
1036 2014-06-02 15:05:41 xenog has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1037 2014-06-02 15:05:42 <coryfields> gavinandresen: sure, but gitian is not a build system
1038 2014-06-02 15:05:45 <michagogo> Should be, yes.
1039 2014-06-02 15:05:47 <coryfields> nor is it sane.
1040 2014-06-02 15:05:56 <gavinandresen> okey dokey.
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1043 2014-06-02 15:06:28 <gavinandresen> I'm just saying what I done did SHOULD work in a theoretically perfect world
1044 2014-06-02 15:06:29 <coryfields> gavinandresen: to be more useful: gitian has a very specific purpose, and that is to spit out byte-exact builds
1045 2014-06-02 15:06:33 <sipa> michagogo: no, you connected to request a paymentrequest :)
1046 2014-06-02 15:06:33 <michagogo> I mean, with gitian, isn't having a clean, identical environment kinda the whole point?
1047 2014-06-02 15:06:38 Arnavion has quit (Quit: Arnavion)
1048 2014-06-02 15:06:45 <coryfields> treating it as a build-system to automate things is a really really bad idea
1049 2014-06-02 15:06:47 <michagogo> sipa: that's what I thought.
1050 2014-06-02 15:07:07 <gavinandresen> coryfields: I thought the issue is that ./configure is not paying attention to where to search for qt headers
1051 2014-06-02 15:07:19 <gavinandresen> (or make or qmake or something)
1052 2014-06-02 15:07:50 <michagogo> sipa: ...which means, I assume, that it was impossible to receive funds without being reachable from tbe internet?
1053 2014-06-02 15:07:56 <sipa> michagogo: correct
1054 2014-06-02 15:07:59 <coryfields> gavinandresen: when there are 2 sets of headers, there's no real correct answer for "which one to use"
1055 2014-06-02 15:08:03 <michagogo> Wtf? It autocorrected to "tbe"?
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1057 2014-06-02 15:08:33 <coryfields> gavinandresen: i'll look over the specifics. And it's possible that they could be made to coexist. But I maintain that it's a bad idea to assume anything other than a clean base for building
1058 2014-06-02 15:08:34 <gavinandresen> coryfields: the correct answer should be "the one I tell you to use" -- if gitian ./configure doesn't do that, then it is a bug in the gitian configure script in my opinion
1059 2014-06-02 15:08:35 <michagogo> I typed "the" and then a slight misspelling of internet
1060 2014-06-02 15:08:46 <coryfields> 'cause you never know what could end up affecting it
1061 2014-06-02 15:08:55 <michagogo> gavinandresen: well, it's not the gitian configure script
1062 2014-06-02 15:09:03 p8m has joined
1063 2014-06-02 15:09:06 <michagogo> It's just our configure script, running in gitian
1064 2014-06-02 15:09:14 mpmcsweeney has joined
1065 2014-06-02 15:09:24 <michagogo> ...and it autocorrected to "tbe internet"
1066 2014-06-02 15:09:26 <gavinandresen> please don't be pedantic, it is monday and I am grumpy.
1067 2014-06-02 15:09:36 <michagogo> gavinandresen: no, there's a difference
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1069 2014-06-02 15:09:42 <michagogo> The problem isn't with gitian
1070 2014-06-02 15:09:45 <coryfields> gavinandresen: sure, we can do that with configure. See the --with-qt-* options. But those aren't set in the gitian scripts because it was assumed to be a predefined environment
1071 2014-06-02 15:09:46 <gavinandresen> fine
1072 2014-06-02 15:09:46 <michagogo> It's with our build system
1073 2014-06-02 15:09:48 <gavinandresen> our use of gitian
1074 2014-06-02 15:10:30 <coryfields> which imo is a fair assumption for gitian. If that can't be assumed, then many other changes are needed as well.
1075 2014-06-02 15:10:36 <michagogo> Oh, I see
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1078 2014-06-02 15:10:52 <gavinandresen> coryfields: I'd argue assuming that is the bug. Make everything explicit, because you never know what will affect deterministic output
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1081 2014-06-02 15:11:38 <coryfields> gavinandresen: i strongly disagree. We know exactly what will affect deterministic output, which is why we set those specific inputs and only those specific inputs
1082 2014-06-02 15:11:55 <coryfields> if you throw another random system package in there, all bets are off
1083 2014-06-02 15:12:03 <michagogo> gavinandresen: I think the idea is, usually auto detection is fine. If you need a specific one, specify it. We don't do that in gitian because gitian is a clean VM
1084 2014-06-02 15:12:08 <gavinandresen> coryfields: ok, I yield, you're the expert
1085 2014-06-02 15:12:14 <michagogo> A gitian VM, I mean
1086 2014-06-02 15:12:35 StarenseN has joined
1087 2014-06-02 15:12:47 <michagogo> Once you use a VM that's not as-is from make-base-vm, you're arguably not exactly using gitian
1088 2014-06-02 15:12:54 <sipa> well i do agree philosophically with coryfields here: if we're going to deal with indeterminsm inside gitian, why do we have it? the whole purpose of it is to have a known environment to build in, so we can rely on it
1089 2014-06-02 15:13:12 <michagogo> sipa: +1
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1091 2014-06-02 15:13:20 <coryfields> right
1092 2014-06-02 15:13:24 <coryfields> however
1093 2014-06-02 15:13:36 <michagogo> (I think wumpus and I were saying just about that earlier)
1094 2014-06-02 15:13:47 <gavinandresen> mmm. I predict when we move from precise to new VMs we'll wish we had explictly set paths to qt and compilers and etc.....
1095 2014-06-02 15:13:48 <coryfields> it could be a reasonable compromise to allow for known things to be installed simultaneously
1096 2014-06-02 15:14:00 <coryfields> for example, linux+osx could be built to knowingly not conflict with eachother
1097 2014-06-02 15:14:07 <sipa> fair enough
1098 2014-06-02 15:14:40 <gavinandresen> ⦠because then things will break early and we'll realize "oh, /usr/bin/g++ in Zany Zebra is actually not the compiler we wantâ¦" (or whatever)
1099 2014-06-02 15:15:16 <wumpus> coryfields: I do set the --with-qt option, I even override the pkgconfig path, but still it chooses the system's qt library instead of the one we build ourselves
1100 2014-06-02 15:15:48 <coryfields> wumpus: if that's a case, that's a legitimate bug then. will have a look.
1101 2014-06-02 15:15:50 <wumpus> coryfields: see my post here: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/4270
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1103 2014-06-02 15:16:39 <sipa> wumpus: oh, thanks for clearing that up
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1105 2014-06-02 15:18:16 <wumpus> for now it's fine to just say 'uninstall the libqt4-dev', but that was meant as a workaround
1106 2014-06-02 15:18:53 <coryfields> wumpus: is any of this holding up the current release? (I'm still catching up on backlog from this weekend)
1107 2014-06-02 15:18:59 <wumpus> no, it's not
1108 2014-06-02 15:19:06 <coryfields> ok
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1110 2014-06-02 15:19:13 <wumpus> we have a workaround
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1113 2014-06-02 15:20:40 <coryfields> wumpus: to repro, all i need to do is add in the libqt4-dev dependency, then?
1114 2014-06-02 15:21:19 <wumpus> coryfields: yes
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1117 2014-06-02 15:23:28 <coryfields> wumpus: everything else went ok with building? osx was fine?
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1119 2014-06-02 15:24:31 <coryfields> i wish i wouldn'tve been dragged to a long, boring wedding instead of enjoying the build fun :\
1120 2014-06-02 15:24:40 <gavinandresen> coryfields: I'm going to try code-signing and uploading osx now
1121 2014-06-02 15:24:44 <wumpus> coryfields: build worked fine, gavin and I had a different dmg though, but the intermediates look the same
1122 2014-06-02 15:24:54 <sipa> why codesign before final release?
1123 2014-06-02 15:25:06 <gavinandresen> sipa: to make sure the process works
1124 2014-06-02 15:25:10 <sipa> ok!
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1126 2014-06-02 15:25:38 <coryfields> gavinandresen: you mean the regular codesign process for rc1? or the detached deterministic stuff?
1127 2014-06-02 15:25:48 <gavinandresen> coryfields: detached deterministic stuff
1128 2014-06-02 15:25:58 <coryfields> ok
1129 2014-06-02 15:26:25 <coryfields> have you verified that the other still works ok? I realize now that we never actually tested that either
1130 2014-06-02 15:27:08 <gavinandresen> nope, but I can't imagine it would break-- codesigning a .dmg is codesigning a .dmg.....
1131 2014-06-02 15:27:16 <gavinandresen> err, a .app ...
1132 2014-06-02 15:27:50 <coryfields> gavinandresen: i suppose the reason i'm nervous is that 10.9 seemed to have dropped a bunch of back-compat stuff that just worked before, even if it wasn't technically supposed to
1133 2014-06-02 15:27:59 <coryfields> you use 10.6 or so for signing though, i guess?
1134 2014-06-02 15:28:58 <gavinandresen> coryfields: let me remember⦠I believe I'd build on a 10.6 machine against the 10.5 SDK. Then copy the .dmg to my 10.8 machine, unpack the dmg, sign the .app, then repack the .dmg which was then released.
1135 2014-06-02 15:29:49 <coryfields> ok. i suppose we'll cross the bridges as we come to 'em. Maybe 10.8 plays nicer.
1136 2014-06-02 15:30:14 <gavinandresen> ⦠beacuse I think GateKeeper didn't like it if I signed on 10.6, and I couldn't build 32-bit on 10.8 with the 10.5 SDK. But I may be mis-remembering.
1137 2014-06-02 15:30:44 <coryfields> no, that sounds about right.
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1142 2014-06-02 15:34:48 <coryfields> wumpus: erm, I'm quite confused about the qt linux build
1143 2014-06-02 15:34:50 pierreatwork has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1144 2014-06-02 15:35:05 <coryfields> i guess i missed that discussion. Got a few min to discuss/clue me in?
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1147 2014-06-02 15:40:24 <dsnrk> coryfields: you're in luck too, 10.10 is dropping in a few hours to screw things up even more :)
1148 2014-06-02 15:41:48 <coryfields> heh
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1150 2014-06-02 15:42:58 <wumpus> coryfields: we build against the headers of qt 4.6, for backward compatibility with older distributions
1151 2014-06-02 15:43:05 <gavinandresen> coryfields: there's a bash quoting bug in detached-sig-create.sh
1152 2014-06-02 15:43:16 <gavinandresen> coryfields: "Developer: no identity found
1153 2014-06-02 15:43:26 <wumpus> coryfields: precise has qt 4.8 headers by default, which are too new
1154 2014-06-02 15:43:53 <wumpus> coryfields: also we build the 4.6 developer tools (moc, uic) to go with it
1155 2014-06-02 15:44:00 <gavinandresen> ls
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1158 2014-06-02 15:45:35 <wumpus> coryfields: anyhow, it works great as long as the libqt4-dev package is not installed
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1160 2014-06-02 15:46:28 <coryfields> gavinandresen: right. i can fix up and ping you if you'd rather not dive in there
1161 2014-06-02 15:47:09 <gavinandresen> coryfields: mmm, my first attempt at a fix ( "${CODESIGNARGS}" ) doesn't work, and I don't remember the bash syntax for making it work
1162 2014-06-02 15:47:11 <coryfields> wumpus: that sounds quite painful. What's the benefit over just using all of our self-built qt?
1163 2014-06-02 15:47:43 <coryfields> gavinandresen: ok, will take a crack at it
1164 2014-06-02 15:47:54 <coryfields> gavinandresen: fwiw, i tested using: CODESIGNARGS="-s Cory"
1165 2014-06-02 15:48:07 <coryfields> gavinandresen: possible you don't need that 2nd argument?
1166 2014-06-02 15:48:30 <coryfields> (just for now, of course)
1167 2014-06-02 15:48:31 <wumpus> coryfields: we want to use the system's qt, because that integrates into the window environment etc
1168 2014-06-02 15:48:32 <gavinandresen> coryfields: the identity name has spaces in it
1169 2014-06-02 15:48:41 <gavinandresen> my CODESIGNARGS is: --keychain /Users/gavin/Library/Keychains/CodeSigning.keychain --sign "Developer ID Application: BITCOIN FOUNDATION, INC., THE"
1170 2014-06-02 15:49:09 <wumpus> coryfields: building a static qt as for windows would be a nightmare on linux, you're stuck with all kinds of X development dependencies
1171 2014-06-02 15:49:13 <coryfields> oh, that is your -s. ok. I was thinking it was the number of args that messed it up.
1172 2014-06-02 15:49:50 <coryfields> wumpus: hmm, ok
1173 2014-06-02 15:49:54 <wumpus> we just don't want that
1174 2014-06-02 15:51:39 <coryfields> wumpus: well in this case, i'm not sure what we can do with the bitcoin build-system. It's likely detecting that there are headers but the libs are missing, so it skips and detects the working pair
1175 2014-06-02 15:52:17 <coryfields> i suppose you could say "let me shoot myself in the foot", which is reasonable i guess. Will think on it.
1176 2014-06-02 15:52:20 <wumpus> coryfields: well even the libs are there, they are symbolic-linked
1177 2014-06-02 15:52:34 <wumpus> coryfields: and they are specified in the .pc file
1178 2014-06-02 15:53:12 <wumpus> coryfields: I'm not sure it should be trying to do anything smart apart from just following what is in the pkgconfig files
1179 2014-06-02 15:54:20 <wumpus> and the pkgconfig files in PKG_CONFIG_PATH take precedence over the system ones right?
1180 2014-06-02 15:54:21 <coryfields> fair enough. Ok, I won't speculate anymore. I understand the issue. I'll update the PR when I can nail down why it's not doing ^^
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1182 2014-06-02 15:54:49 <coryfields> correct
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1230 2014-06-02 16:47:22 <gdm85> wumpus: I am tracking down an issue related to possibly similar causes, trying to make deterministic builds in LXC containers
1231 2014-06-02 16:47:43 <gdm85> and another one related to order of files in the tar archive
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1243 2014-06-02 16:57:33 <coryfields> gavinandresen: https://github.com/theuni/bitcoin/commit/45a663450a1a88af25e50b7de9a28aafc2858a68
1244 2014-06-02 16:57:49 <coryfields> gdm85: notice the way we tar for osx
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1246 2014-06-02 16:58:25 <coryfields> gdm85: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/master/contrib/gitian-descriptors/gitian-osx-native.yml#L177
1247 2014-06-02 16:58:33 <coryfields> that fixes random file orders
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1257 2014-06-02 17:15:24 <gavinandresen> coryfields: send you email RE: detached-sig-create
1258 2014-06-02 17:16:22 <coryfields> gavinandresen: damn, that looks like the one i was worried about
1259 2014-06-02 17:16:45 <coryfields> 10.9 wants each version signed. before, it wanted the whole framework signed
1260 2014-06-02 17:17:14 <gavinandresen> Ah. So signing might work if I was running 10.9?
1261 2014-06-02 17:17:19 <gavinandresen> I think I have a 10.9 VM I can fire up....
1262 2014-06-02 17:17:24 <coryfields> oh wait, did you use a gitian output rather than the one i sent you?
1263 2014-06-02 17:17:31 <gavinandresen> yes, I used gitian output.
1264 2014-06-02 17:18:12 <coryfields> that's missing the packaging changes for codesigning
1265 2014-06-02 17:18:36 <coryfields> https://github.com/theuni/bitcoin/commit/953fbf3b486fadb83db243612d71626b16c779db <-- that one
1266 2014-06-02 17:18:44 <gavinandresen> ⦠so for 0.9.2 we'll use the old way of codesigning?
1267 2014-06-02 17:19:28 <coryfields> yea, i didn't think there was any hope of having this ready without blocking 0.9.2 for too long, figured we'd do it for the next
1268 2014-06-02 17:19:41 <gavinandresen> ok
1269 2014-06-02 17:19:42 <coryfields> sorry if i wasn't clear on that
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1367 2014-06-02 19:13:38 <coryfields> wumpus: where are you seeing that it picked up the system headers before ours?
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1407 2014-06-02 19:57:07 <wumpus> coryfields: if you add libqt4-dev as depedency you get a different output (which uses post-qt4.6 featurs) then without
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1409 2014-06-02 19:57:27 <wumpus> coryfields: most visible is the placeholdertext in fields
1410 2014-06-02 19:58:19 <coryfields> wumpus: ok, on the PR you listed your differing manifests, but the binaries were the same there. So that's unrelated to the difference we're speaking of now, i suppose
1411 2014-06-02 19:59:24 <wumpus> coryfields: yes, the PR is unrelated
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1413 2014-06-02 19:59:53 <coryfields> ok
1414 2014-06-02 20:00:09 <wumpus> the only common thing is that it both affected qt, so it first seemed to be the same issue
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1416 2014-06-02 20:00:15 <AndyOfiesh> I am unable to spend a 5of5 multi-sig p2sh tx out. I have posted my attempt here http://pastebin.com/pxEjxRSB
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1418 2014-06-02 20:00:36 <AndyOfiesh> spendrawtransaction doesn't like my input
1419 2014-06-02 20:00:48 <AndyOfiesh> but decoderawtransaction doesn't have a problem
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1422 2014-06-02 20:01:44 <AndyOfiesh> Can anyone tell me why I'm getting RPC_DESERIALIZATION_ERROR = -22, // Error parsing or validating structure in raw format
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1426 2014-06-02 20:03:43 <AndyOfiesh> Looking at the code, I would expect both to either fail or succeed.
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1435 2014-06-02 20:06:54 <wumpus> that's indeed strange
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1437 2014-06-02 20:07:01 <wumpus> both should use the same deserialization
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1440 2014-06-02 20:09:50 <AndyOfiesh> I notice that decode only spits out the raw hex of the script in the signature
1441 2014-06-02 20:10:06 <AndyOfiesh> Perhaps spend parses that and finds a problem.
1442 2014-06-02 20:10:43 <justanotheruser> If I want to use the JSON RPC to make a tx that has inputs from two users, is there any easy way to select inputs or do I have write an algorithm to select the inputs myself?
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1444 2014-06-02 20:11:54 <wumpus> justanotheruser: if you use the raw tx API, you need to select inputs yourself
1445 2014-06-02 20:12:14 <wumpus> if you use the built-in wallet you can get a list of available ones using listunspent
1446 2014-06-02 20:12:42 <justanotheruser> wumpus: any already reference input selection for python?
1447 2014-06-02 20:12:46 <AndyOfiesh> One thing I noticed in my investigation is that in 0.8.6 the script sig size is limited to 3of3 or 500 bytes, now 1650 is the limit. My script sig 700 something. I spent some time making sure I wasn't running an older version.
1448 2014-06-02 20:12:54 <justanotheruser> remove the already from that sentence
1449 2014-06-02 20:13:08 <wumpus> justanotheruser: no idea
1450 2014-06-02 20:13:58 <justanotheruser> wumpus: is it a problem if I just take the biggest unspent outputs and added them together until I had enough?
1451 2014-06-02 20:14:47 <justanotheruser> It would probably hurt anonymity.
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1453 2014-06-02 20:16:56 <justanotheruser> Would the behavior be the same as Bitcoin Cores if I just copied ComputePriority() and added the top priority inputs until I had enough?
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1461 2014-06-02 20:26:05 <wumpus> justanotheruser: the input selection in bitcoin core is somewhat smarter than that (it solves an inverted knapsack problem), but it's not really great at either preserving anonimity or selecting the right inputs in all circumstances either
1462 2014-06-02 20:26:39 <justanotheruser> wumpus: which function selects inputs based on priority?
1463 2014-06-02 20:26:44 <wumpus> there is not really one single perfect way to select inputs, it depends on what you want
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1465 2014-06-02 20:27:42 <wumpus> CWallet::SelectCoinsMinConf
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1467 2014-06-02 20:29:00 <justanotheruser> wumpus: hmm. So I could get all of those args from the JSON RPC right?
1468 2014-06-02 20:29:10 <snoopstr> hey guys, what is good bitcoin bot for irc (ex. coinbot)?
1469 2014-06-02 20:29:43 <pigeons> snoopstr: ask in #bitcoin, some use supybot like gribble
1470 2014-06-02 20:29:45 <justanotheruser> specifically I'm not sure what int nConfMine, int nConfTheirs is
1471 2014-06-02 20:30:31 <snoopstr> ok thx
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1491 2014-06-02 20:52:24 <gdm85> coryfields: I just submitted this: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/4274
1492 2014-06-02 20:52:28 <gdm85> let me check the link you gave me..
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1494 2014-06-02 20:54:10 <gdm85> coryfields: that seems like a nice hack, but I found that sort -n -s does the job too
1495 2014-06-02 20:55:32 <coryfields> gdm85: mm, something about the locale is different between the two, i'd prefer to track down the cause
1496 2014-06-02 20:55:41 <coryfields> do you have a vm running atm that you can 'on-target' onto?
1497 2014-06-02 20:56:42 <gdm85> coryfields: yes
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1499 2014-06-02 20:56:50 <gdm85> I have to admit I didn't consider locale.. :\
1500 2014-06-02 20:57:35 <coryfields> gdm85: $1 says it's LC_COLLATE or so
1501 2014-06-02 20:57:53 <coryfields> gdm85: and if that's the case, it would affect other things as well (ar/ld/etc)
1502 2014-06-02 20:58:12 <gdm85> coryfields: will commands passed to LXC by gitian-builder preserve the environment? (thus LC_*)
1503 2014-06-02 20:58:29 <gdm85> let me check this..
1504 2014-06-02 20:58:32 <coryfields> gdm85: on lxc shell, please run "env | grep LC"
1505 2014-06-02 20:59:11 <coryfields> then run: "locale"
1506 2014-06-02 20:59:19 <coryfields> and paste the results of both, if you don't mind
1507 2014-06-02 20:59:39 <gdm85> coryfields: sure, I am just not used to LXC commands but will do this now
1508 2014-06-02 21:01:26 <coryfields> gdm85: i've tested locally, and i'm betting that's it. My output is the same as before your sort change
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1511 2014-06-02 21:01:46 <coryfields> gdm85: sec for a different test, if dropping to an lxc shell is tricky
1512 2014-06-02 21:02:06 <gdm85> coryfields: yeah that's probably it. for some reason I never thought the LC_* variables would get into the LXC VM
1513 2014-06-02 21:02:24 <gdm85> coryfields: don't think it's difficult, just that I always had gbuild do that
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1518 2014-06-02 21:04:23 <coryfields> gdm85: this is the exact output from my gitian kvm shell: http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=yNFwuu7q
1519 2014-06-02 21:04:39 <coryfields> could you try exporting all of those at the top of the gitian linux descriptor?
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1521 2014-06-02 21:05:27 <gdm85> coryfields: damn it. the LC_* variables migrated from host to LXC container :(
1522 2014-06-02 21:05:35 <gdm85> you found it, many thanks for this hint..
1523 2014-06-02 21:05:41 <coryfields> gdm85: i suspected as much :)
1524 2014-06-02 21:05:52 <gdm85> this might perhaps be responsible for other changes too
1525 2014-06-02 21:06:12 <gdm85> I will just make sure that the host has not such locales
1526 2014-06-02 21:06:17 <coryfields> yea, it'd have to
1527 2014-06-02 21:06:23 <gdm85> also, I do not think the guide should say "you can pick any locale"...
1528 2014-06-02 21:06:27 <coryfields> gdm85: that's a legitimate bug in gitian
1529 2014-06-02 21:06:38 <gdm85> yeah, you can see it also that way
1530 2014-06-02 21:06:46 <coryfields> (assuming it's true, do we have definitive proof yet?)
1531 2014-06-02 21:06:52 <gdm85> I mean, sort -n -s doesn't hurt..but just hides the underlying (bigger) problem
1532 2014-06-02 21:07:19 <gdm85> coryfields: let me run sort with those locales to confirm with definitive proof
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1542 2014-06-02 21:13:34 <coryfields> gdm85: assuming that works, the correct fix is something like this imo: http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=0pcscSC5
1543 2014-06-02 21:14:01 <gdm85> coryfields: yes that will fix it
1544 2014-06-02 21:14:26 <gdm85> coryfields: I will soon attach there
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1548 2014-06-02 21:20:38 <gdm85> coryfields: turns out I am not able to get a shell..if I attach there's something else running :(
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1550 2014-06-02 21:21:27 <gdm85> but the env of the VM is not poisoned with wrong LCs..so what I am going to do is fix this problem and build again
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1552 2014-06-02 21:21:50 <coryfields> gdm85: lxc+gitian can be a headache. probably easiest to just do a quick echo in the descriptor and tail the log
1553 2014-06-02 21:22:11 <gdm85> yeah, that's what I did to show the environment
1554 2014-06-02 21:23:02 <gdm85> coryfields: it's just that I do not have small sorting testcase at hand
1555 2014-06-02 21:23:02 <coryfields> echo -e "COPYING\nconfigure" | sort
1556 2014-06-02 21:23:08 <gdm85> ah, ok :)
1557 2014-06-02 21:23:12 <coryfields> :)
1558 2014-06-02 21:23:52 <coryfields> if it's correct, lowecase should be first
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1575 2014-06-02 21:49:48 <Dizzle> Regarding the chatter about qt build checksums, is there a release on its way out soon, or was that just general infrastructure checking?
1576 2014-06-02 21:49:55 torsthaldo has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
1577 2014-06-02 21:50:49 <sipa> 0.9.2rc1 has been tagged
1578 2014-06-02 21:50:51 belcher has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1579 2014-06-02 21:50:59 <Dizzle> neat, ty
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1585 2014-06-02 21:58:31 <justanotheruser> Does signrawtransaction put your singature in the correct scriptsig automatically?
1586 2014-06-02 21:58:38 <justanotheruser> correct input I mean
1587 2014-06-02 21:58:58 wallet42 has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
1588 2014-06-02 21:59:54 <sipa> yes
1589 2014-06-02 22:00:00 <coryfields> gdm85: any luck?
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1592 2014-06-02 22:01:15 <gdm85> coryfields: had to rebuild the host because lxc-ls would show no container, but trying to start one with same name would not be allowed because container were already running..
1593 2014-06-02 22:01:29 ang-st has joined
1594 2014-06-02 22:01:29 <coryfields> heh
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1599 2014-06-02 22:03:27 <gdm85> coryfields: getting there. some jungle fun I didn't expect..but getting there
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1622 2014-06-02 22:12:09 <gdm85> coryfields: configure
1623 2014-06-02 22:12:09 <gdm85> -e COPYING
1624 2014-06-02 22:12:09 <gdm85> configure
1625 2014-06-02 22:12:09 <gdm85> -e COPYING
1626 2014-06-02 22:12:23 <gdm85> ok, didn't take my commands correctly
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1640 2014-06-02 22:18:53 <gdm85> coryfields: again that error with "the container is already running". I give up. although changing the LC_* variables on the VM didn't seem to affect the sorting process
1641 2014-06-02 22:18:58 <gdm85> so cannot confirm/deny, sorry :(
1642 2014-06-02 22:19:18 <coryfields> gdm85: have you killed lxc manually?
1643 2014-06-02 22:19:31 <gdm85> coryfields: tried with lxc-destroy. any other way?
1644 2014-06-02 22:19:42 <coryfields> gdm85: i don't remember off the top of my head
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1650 2014-06-02 22:20:24 <coryfields> gdm85: i can nearly guarantee that it's a locale issue, i'm just not certain where we can stick the fixes into gitian so that they properly take effect
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1652 2014-06-02 22:21:03 <coryfields> so i'd prefer to confirm one way or the other before ack'ing any change
1653 2014-06-02 22:21:04 <gdm85> it takes ages to iterate tests using gbuild..but now I am trying to lxc-stop the container
1654 2014-06-02 22:21:52 <gdm85> if I had learnt the lxc commands it would have taken less..I think
1655 2014-06-02 22:22:15 <coryfields> yea, it's a pain
1656 2014-06-02 22:22:26 <coryfields> i'd hop in and help, but i'm working with gitian all day today, myself
1657 2014-06-02 22:22:42 postpre has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1658 2014-06-02 22:23:57 <gdm85> no problem. there are nice CLIs and bad CLIs. then there are CLIs that stand on their own to redefine the idea of "horrible"..
1659 2014-06-02 22:24:27 * gdm85 picks again TFM
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1662 2014-06-02 22:28:56 <gdm85> coryfields: without any change in LC_ or LANG, the order is lowercase/uppercase
1663 2014-06-02 22:29:23 <justanotheruser> What is the best way to determine if a program is connected to an altcoins RPC?
1664 2014-06-02 22:29:38 <gdm85> coryfields: this kind of defeats the whole idea of LC_* being the culprit, doesn't?
1665 2014-06-02 22:29:44 <justanotheruser> getinfo doesn't have a "cryptocurrency" field obviously
1666 2014-06-02 22:29:50 <justanotheruser> or should I just ignore that
1667 2014-06-02 22:31:04 <coryfields> gdm85: there are other things as well, check out the gist you posted
1668 2014-06-02 22:31:10 <coryfields> for example . and _
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1671 2014-06-02 22:32:59 <gdm85> coryfields: one thing I noticed is that I don't need to enter the LXC to verify the behaviour
1672 2014-06-02 22:33:17 <gdm85> both hosts (VM and docker host container) have the sorting difference problem
1673 2014-06-02 22:33:32 <gdm85> thus perhaps I could simplify my tests my just checking at that level (much faster for me atm)
1674 2014-06-02 22:34:17 <gdm85> but if I inject all the bad LC_ environment variables into the 'good' VM, still I don't see a change in sorting
1675 2014-06-02 22:35:06 rlifchitz has joined
1676 2014-06-02 22:35:09 <gdm85> now I will compare the full list of files on both hosts with LANG=C
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1678 2014-06-02 22:36:16 <coryfields> http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=Au6CUEd6
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1681 2014-06-02 22:39:55 <coryfields> gdm85: how about we back up a little and find an example-case where it actually differs between build types?
1682 2014-06-02 22:40:25 <coryfields> gdm85: actually, how about taking this to #bitcoin-build?
1683 2014-06-02 22:40:32 <coryfields> we've done our share here :)
1684 2014-06-02 22:40:46 <gdm85> coryfields: I tried those 3 examples, mixed results.
1685 2014-06-02 22:40:52 <gdm85> yeah indeed. no problem
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1732 2014-06-02 23:40:54 <justanotheruser> What is the equivalent to ServiceProxy is jsonrpc2?
1733 2014-06-02 23:40:59 <justanotheruser> in python
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