1 2014-06-04 00:02:17 <maaku> Luke-Jr: do you maintain the merged mining patches against bitcoind?
2 2014-06-04 00:02:22 <justanotheruser> sipa: what am I doing wrong? NameError: global name 'secp256k1' is not defined
3 2014-06-04 00:02:24 <maaku> i'm trying to find something reasonably up to date
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5 2014-06-04 00:02:33 <maaku> justanotheruser: note the capitalization
6 2014-06-04 00:03:17 <justanotheruser> maaku: Oh, I read it as "(without that capitalization for some reason)
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8 2014-06-04 00:03:37 <justanotheruser> NameError: global name 'SECP256k1' is not defined
9 2014-06-04 00:04:07 <maaku> but if it still doesn't work, see the workaround in the file I posted (starting line 23)
10 2014-06-04 00:04:15 <justanotheruser> ok will do in a few
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17 2014-06-04 00:07:35 <phantomcircuit> sipa, is there no way to cache the GetHash result in CTransaction?
18 2014-06-04 00:08:10 <sipa> that's too easy!
19 2014-06-04 00:08:39 <sipa> imho, we should have a CBlockValidation class or something, which maintains all state related to block validation
20 2014-06-04 00:08:46 <sipa> and similarly for transactions
21 2014-06-04 00:08:53 <sipa> the hashes could be cached in there
22 2014-06-04 00:09:14 <sipa> (it's ugly that CBlock maintains its own merkle tree even imho, it's not part of the block, just cached computation)
23 2014-06-04 00:09:27 <phantomcircuit> sadly it seems like there is not since everything directly accesses vin
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25 2014-06-04 00:10:12 <gmaxwell> a fun thing to try to record a backtrace every time a duplicte hash is run. you can do this easily if running under valgrind with VALGRIND_PRINTF_BACKTRACE or just backtrace_symbols() in glibc.
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27 2014-06-04 00:12:32 <phantomcircuit> gmaxwell, valgrind is sooooo slow
28 2014-06-04 00:12:35 <phantomcircuit> it takes ages
29 2014-06-04 00:13:02 <gmaxwell> yea so? who cares? you sleep sometime, right? ... but thats also why I mentioned backtrace_symbols. :)
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38 2014-06-04 00:24:57 <phantomcircuit> gmaxwell, psh
39 2014-06-04 00:24:58 <phantomcircuit> sleep
40 2014-06-04 00:25:18 <warren> Does anyone ever use RPC sendfrom? The fromaccount doesn't actually limit the inputs to that fromaccount.
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43 2014-06-04 00:27:10 <phantomcircuit> gmaxwell, lol no symbol names
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49 2014-06-04 00:30:00 <Luke-Jr> maaku: no patches are needed to bitcoind to merge mine
50 2014-06-04 00:30:28 <Luke-Jr> warren: accounts don't have coins
51 2014-06-04 00:30:33 <Luke-Jr> warren: works as intended
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53 2014-06-04 00:32:04 <phantomcircuit> warren, the accounts system is an accounting system built, it does not control the coin selection
54 2014-06-04 00:33:15 <phantomcircuit> sipa,
55 2014-06-04 00:33:16 <phantomcircuit> lol
56 2014-06-04 00:33:17 <phantomcircuit> ==10522== by 0x264066: CTransaction::GetHash() const (core.cpp:77)
57 2014-06-04 00:33:17 <phantomcircuit> ==10522== by 0x21DE57: CTxMemPool::remove(CTransaction const&, std::list<CTransaction, std::allocator<CTransaction> >&, bool) (txmempool.cpp:94)
58 2014-06-04 00:33:17 <warren> then why does sendfrom have a "fromaccount" parameter?
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60 2014-06-04 00:34:11 <Luke-Jr> warren: it deducts the value from the named account
61 2014-06-04 00:34:22 <Luke-Jr> warren: there is no such thing as a from address, you should know this
62 2014-06-04 00:34:28 hanti is now known as HANTI
63 2014-06-04 00:34:29 <phantomcircuit> so so many duplicates
64 2014-06-04 00:35:00 <warren> Luke-Jr: it's picking inputs from seemingly random other accounts
65 2014-06-04 00:35:12 <Luke-Jr> warren: no such thing
66 2014-06-04 00:35:21 <Luke-Jr> warren: accounts are just numbers
67 2014-06-04 00:35:23 <warren> and it doesn't use the fromaccount
68 2014-06-04 00:35:27 <Luke-Jr> it does
69 2014-06-04 00:35:41 <warren> the fromaccount contains only a single input
70 2014-06-04 00:35:48 <phantomcircuit> gmaxwell, can i do something horrible like change CTransaction:vIn to a method returning a const
71 2014-06-04 00:35:57 <Luke-Jr> warren: accoutns don't contain inputs, period.
72 2014-06-04 00:36:20 <phantomcircuit> then anywhere that vIn is actually being updated change to a different method which returns a non const
73 2014-06-04 00:36:30 <phantomcircuit> that way everything can be safely (? maybe) cached
74 2014-06-04 00:36:38 <phantomcircuit> Luke-Jr, opinions on above?
75 2014-06-04 00:36:51 <warren> Luke-Jr: setaccount <address> <accountname> where address has a single input, then sendfrom <accountname>
76 2014-06-04 00:37:16 <phantomcircuit> warren, fromaccount is merely an instruction to debit that account the amount sent
77 2014-06-04 00:37:16 <Luke-Jr> warren: addresses don't have inputs either.
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79 2014-06-04 00:37:40 <Luke-Jr> setaccount and sendfrom have no relationship.
80 2014-06-04 00:38:01 <warren> listunspent shows <address> is part of <accountname>
81 2014-06-04 00:38:05 <Luke-Jr> warren: bitcoind listaccounts; do a sendfrom, then listaccounts again
82 2014-06-04 00:38:12 <Luke-Jr> warren: the account will be N less after sendfrom
83 2014-06-04 00:38:36 <Luke-Jr> warren: yes, addresses are tied to an account. so when you send to the address, that account gets credited.
84 2014-06-04 00:38:49 <Luke-Jr> neither addresses nor accounts are related to UTXO entries
85 2014-06-04 00:38:49 <phantomcircuit> which is the full limit of the link
86 2014-06-04 00:39:24 <Luke-Jr> I have no idea why listunspent tells you an address or account, that seems unexpected/strange
87 2014-06-04 00:39:27 <warren> OK, so you can't use sendfrom as a dumb way to avoid using createrawtransaction. Got it.
88 2014-06-04 00:39:37 <warren> listunspent does
89 2014-06-04 00:40:15 <warren> In this dumb shell script I'm spending a particular output for the purpose of automating a reorg tester.
90 2014-06-04 00:40:20 <warren> double-spent tester actually
91 2014-06-04 00:41:00 <Luke-Jr> warren: there is a misguided spendfrom script in contrib/
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93 2014-06-04 00:41:26 <Luke-Jr> (that IMO we should delete..)
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96 2014-06-04 00:43:15 <warren> True listunspent doesn't give addresses, but it does show what account an input is part of as set by setaccount.
97 2014-06-04 00:43:23 <warren> If that's useless then it shouldn't display that.
98 2014-06-04 00:44:40 <phantomcircuit> gmaxwell, oh god, too much data
99 2014-06-04 00:44:43 <Luke-Jr> inputs are NOT part of any account.
100 2014-06-04 00:44:57 <warren> Luke-Jr: listunspent makes it seem like they are
101 2014-06-04 00:45:06 <Luke-Jr> well, I'd ACK a PR to remove it
102 2014-06-04 00:45:12 <Luke-Jr> because that seems stupid
103 2014-06-04 00:45:17 <Luke-Jr> otoh, 0.10 is probably removing accounts entirely
104 2014-06-04 00:45:19 <Luke-Jr> so.
105 2014-06-04 00:45:45 <warren> good
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115 2014-06-04 01:02:02 <phantomcircuit> fun
116 2014-06-04 01:05:19 <gwb3> â
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122 2014-06-04 01:13:42 <phantomcircuit> gmaxwell, any idea how to get symbols w/ backtrace?
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134 2014-06-04 01:27:44 <gmaxwell> I thought backtrace_symbols() resolved symbols. ... but last time I did this I just used valgrind.
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136 2014-06-04 01:29:06 <PLM3> Hello. Question. bitcoin-cli. Is there a way to nicely get a list of all transactions (with confirmation counts) for a particular address ?
137 2014-06-04 01:29:19 <PLM3> that address isn't foreign address
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140 2014-06-04 01:29:55 <PLM3> something like "listtransactions", but for particular address, not whole account
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143 2014-06-04 01:32:46 <phantomcircuit> gmaxwell, it does, but it's only doing it correctly for libc
144 2014-06-04 01:33:02 <phantomcircuit> the valgrind thing works but prints directly to stdout
145 2014-06-04 01:33:14 <phantomcircuit> so i cant count them
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148 2014-06-04 01:34:50 <gmaxwell> so redirect stdout to a file.
149 2014-06-04 01:35:22 <gmaxwell> if you're only printing repeats, you could also print the repeat count to stdout.
150 2014-06-04 01:35:23 <phantomcircuit> gmaxwell, bah but then i have to parse
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164 2014-06-04 01:53:31 <jgarzik> phantomcircuit, hehehe, if you are a programmer who dislikes parsing, it sounds like trucking is a good profession ;p
165 2014-06-04 01:53:52 <phantomcircuit> jgarzik, it's a giant mess
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172 2014-06-04 01:57:36 <gmaxwell> jgarzik: no, audio and video codecs are a good profession, or DSP work in general. Not a string in sight. :)
173 2014-06-04 01:58:16 <phantomcircuit> jgarzik, it's 800MB of stacktraces...
174 2014-06-04 01:59:39 <posita> Does anyone here have any exposure to pycoin?
175 2014-06-04 01:59:42 <jgarzik> I'll see that and raise you a multi-gigabyte pile of PCI-Express bus traces (kernel driver debugging)
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180 2014-06-04 02:02:04 <posita> One should not expect to see two different Bitcoin addresses from the same private key, correct?
181 2014-06-04 02:02:43 <posita> Meaning if bitcoinj says the mainnet address for key X is XXX and pycoin says the mainnet address for key X is YYY, one of them has to be wrong, no?
182 2014-06-04 02:03:03 <phantomcircuit> jgarzik, i'd honestly prefer that...
183 2014-06-04 02:04:54 mrkent has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
184 2014-06-04 02:06:33 <posita> http://pastebin.com/4KitNPGL
185 2014-06-04 02:07:13 <posita> (Forgive the jython, it was just easier to experimentâ¦.)
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196 2014-06-04 02:20:55 <phantomcircuit> ha success
197 2014-06-04 02:20:56 <phantomcircuit> http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=GZjLTPUq
198 2014-06-04 02:21:22 <phantomcircuit> as suspected the merkle tree generation stuff is the most expensive
199 2014-06-04 02:21:36 Zarutian has quit (Quit: Zarutian)
200 2014-06-04 02:21:37 <gmaxwell> but whats most redundant?
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202 2014-06-04 02:21:47 <phantomcircuit> gmaxwell, more or less all of it
203 2014-06-04 02:22:05 <phantomcircuit> if vin was const it would be trivial to cache the value
204 2014-06-04 02:22:06 <phantomcircuit> :(
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206 2014-06-04 02:22:29 <gmaxwell> we might want to do a dedicated merkle tree generator... since they could use SIMD SHA2 that computes four at a time.
207 2014-06-04 02:22:45 <gmaxwell> (IIRC it's more than a 2x speedup)
208 2014-06-04 02:23:12 <phantomcircuit> ==19885== by 0x263FC6: CTransaction::GetHash() const (core.cpp:77)
209 2014-06-04 02:23:12 <phantomcircuit> ==19885== by 0x21DDE7: CTxMemPool::remove(CTransaction const&, std::list<CTransaction, std::allocator<CTransaction> >&, bool) (txmempool.cpp:94)
210 2014-06-04 02:23:17 <phantomcircuit> that's probably the most silly one
211 2014-06-04 02:23:27 <phantomcircuit> the hash cant change once it's in the mempool anyways
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217 2014-06-04 02:30:39 <phantomcircuit> gmaxwell, actually wait the merkle tree shouldn't appear in there at all
218 2014-06-04 02:30:46 <phantomcircuit> this is only the duplicate calls
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223 2014-06-04 02:38:35 <phantomcircuit> gmaxwell, actually the first two are duplicates of each other
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225 2014-06-04 02:38:53 <phantomcircuit> AcceptBlock causes the merkle tree to be calculated twice
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235 2014-06-04 02:51:51 <gwb3> Alright story time, I have to vent - just almost certainly got fired from my job for being a Bitcoin contributor.
236 2014-06-04 02:52:27 <gwb3> I work for a company that has around 100 employees and 8 offices.
237 2014-06-04 02:52:49 <justanotheruser> gwb3: is it a company that in competes with bitcoin?
238 2014-06-04 02:53:05 <gwb3> I am a web developer for them, but they choose to oursource the hosting to a third party that offers "managed service hosting" - so my only responsibility is to handle the stack of what is the website, nothing on the backend that is the hosting.
239 2014-06-04 02:53:09 <gwb3> No.
240 2014-06-04 02:53:26 <justanotheruser> gwb3: so they specifically said "for being a bitcoin contributor"?
241 2014-06-04 02:53:47 <justanotheruser> I think there are quite a few companies that might hire on those grounds :)
242 2014-06-04 02:53:47 <gwb3> The hosting company setup two servers, a staging server and a production server and put the website that I service on them, and then another website that is handled by another company.
243 2014-06-04 02:54:29 <gwb3> Their default SSH port was 22, there was no RSA authentication, and no firewall.
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245 2014-06-04 02:54:41 <gwb3> I setup logwatch so I could monitor my application for PHP errors, etc.
246 2014-06-04 02:55:22 <gwb3> Last Wednesday the server crashed because someone hacked into it via one of the user accounts and setup a bitcoin mining process.
247 2014-06-04 02:55:23 sahlhoff has quit (Quit: sahlhoff)
248 2014-06-04 02:55:42 <maaku> ah
249 2014-06-04 02:56:12 <gwb3> Apparently it was the 4th time it happened, whoever did it setup a cronjob to download the Bitcoin core software from Bitcoin.org (where I am a contributor) so that they could run a mining network on hacked computers to try to make money.
250 2014-06-04 02:56:53 <gwb3> Since I post regularly about Bitcoin on LinkedIn and Twitter the finger is getting pointed at me.
251 2014-06-04 02:57:00 digitalmagus8 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
252 2014-06-04 02:57:23 <gwb3> Despite the fact that logwatch shows dozens of brute force attempts from many different companies and IPs, as well as incorrect login attempts on multitudes of different user accounts.
253 2014-06-04 02:57:38 <maaku> gwb3: this won't help your situation but ... these don't sound like good people to be working with
254 2014-06-04 02:57:42 <gwb3> ./end rant
255 2014-06-04 02:57:48 <gwb3> yeah just frustrating
256 2014-06-04 02:58:08 <gwb3> there's what pays the bills, and then there's bitcoin
257 2014-06-04 02:58:17 <maaku> aint that the truth :(
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259 2014-06-04 02:58:39 <gwb3> they are like, "Garland, we see the server logs, and there is a process that connects to Bitcoin.org, you work on that site, right?"
260 2014-06-04 02:58:49 * gwb3 facepalm.
261 2014-06-04 02:59:02 <gwb3> anyhow whatever
262 2014-06-04 02:59:05 <gwb3> just had to vent
263 2014-06-04 02:59:13 <gwb3> feel better now, i know you all can appreciate what bullshit that is
264 2014-06-04 03:00:01 <gwb3> on to the next job i guess
265 2014-06-04 03:00:21 <gwb3> i'm basically on paid leave now
266 2014-06-04 03:00:29 <Luke-Jr> [02:54:02] <gwb3> Despite the fact that logwatch shows dozens of brute force attempts from many different companies and IPs, as well as incorrect login attempts on multitudes of different user accounts. <-- this is fairly normal :p
267 2014-06-04 03:00:59 <gwb3> Luke-Jr: yeah, agreed
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269 2014-06-04 03:01:29 <gwb3> Luke-Jr: Hence the, "He works on Bitcoin.org, he must have something to do with it" argument.
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274 2014-06-04 03:02:37 <gwb3> Luke-Jr: although if you have fail2ban installed you wouldn't be seeing 300+ brute-force attempts from the same ip in China
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277 2014-06-04 03:06:26 <gwb3> sometimes in life you're the windshield, other times in life you're the bug
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280 2014-06-04 03:08:29 <maaku> you should see our logs from the NASA public network - we couldn't bring a fresh windows machine online because it'd be rooted by someone at a chinese IP before it'd have time to patch & reboot
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283 2014-06-04 03:10:28 <gwb3> I can imagine.
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285 2014-06-04 03:11:52 <justanotheruser> Has anyone here ever used pybitcointools for ec point addition?
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287 2014-06-04 03:13:46 <gwb3> Sorry to get sappy here for a sec, but everyone here, always listen to your heart in life - let that be your compass. My heart says to work on Bitcoin.
288 2014-06-04 03:13:51 <gwb3> Onward. :)
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290 2014-06-04 03:14:06 <justanotheruser> gwb3: If you contribute to bitcoin core, I don't think a job should be too hard to find :P
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296 2014-06-04 03:17:42 <gwb3> justanotheruser: I'm not involved in that, but appreciate where your kind words come from.
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299 2014-06-04 03:18:13 <justanotheruser> gwb3: oh? What project then?
300 2014-06-04 03:18:28 <gwb3> justanotheruser: Bitcoin.org
301 2014-06-04 03:18:48 <justanotheruser> gwb3: oh cool
302 2014-06-04 03:18:59 <gwb3> justanotheruser: ::thumbs up::
303 2014-06-04 03:19:39 weilu has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
304 2014-06-04 03:19:42 <gwb3> Goodnight all, hope it wasn't too much of an inconvenience to have a rant for a few minutes, just stunned that bullshit happened to me today and had to put it somewhere. Hope you all have great rests of the week.
305 2014-06-04 03:19:47 * gwb3 goes back to idling.
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333 2014-06-04 03:34:25 <sipa> posita: compressed and noncompressed address?
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363 2014-06-04 03:53:28 <posita> sipa: exactly
364 2014-06-04 03:53:49 <posita> My apologies. Richard Kiss helped solidify my embarrassment.
365 2014-06-04 03:54:03 <posita> I've been smacking my forehead a lot lately....
366 2014-06-04 03:54:23 <posita> I forgot to post back here.
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396 2014-06-04 04:28:48 <mus1cb0x> what's wrong with blockchain.info?
397 2014-06-04 04:29:11 <mus1cb0x> https://blockchain.info/address/1KQR42DR9UP7WGrS98fcTpkgYPYxqwMZeu doesn't show the transactions to/from the address like it used to
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399 2014-06-04 04:29:54 <justanotheruser> mus1cb0x: someone in #bitcoin was having problems too. use blockexplorer.com
400 2014-06-04 04:30:36 ericmuyser has joined
401 2014-06-04 04:30:56 <mus1cb0x> it's also laggin, wtf
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549 2014-06-04 07:50:45 <gdm85> devrandom: first I'd like to properly reproduce it/narrow it down, then yeah I think I could try something. but no ruby expert here
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594 2014-06-04 08:21:45 <warren> wumpus: tx pull remains unreliable for you, and you need to tx pull -f instead?
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598 2014-06-04 08:24:36 <wumpus> warren: wut?
599 2014-06-04 08:25:02 <wumpus> oh wait, yes
600 2014-06-04 08:25:11 <wumpus> I've added a script that does that for me, contrib/devtools/update-translations.py
601 2014-06-04 08:25:22 jpentland has joined
602 2014-06-04 08:25:27 <wumpus> it pulls all translations, and postprocesses for a nicer diff
603 2014-06-04 08:26:03 mr_burde_ has joined
604 2014-06-04 08:26:24 <wumpus> (as well as to get rid of invalid characters)
605 2014-06-04 08:26:51 <warren> I filed a bug on that and e-mailed the author. Crickets.
606 2014-06-04 08:27:14 <wumpus> I intend to add some other sanity checks, too, for example that %x formatting characters as well as html stay the same in the translation
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609 2014-06-04 08:28:30 <t7> whats the difference between a prime field and a binary field?
610 2014-06-04 08:28:55 <t7> (in the context of elliptic curves)
611 2014-06-04 08:28:56 <wumpus> warren: well, thanks for trying, guess we're on our own
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615 2014-06-04 08:30:50 <wasobot> hello ? :)
616 2014-06-04 08:32:00 <Polyatomic> "/BitCoinJ:0.11.1/RelayNode:stable salamander/" <-- is this a bluematts public relay node?
617 2014-06-04 08:32:57 <t7> also why do you have to count the number of points on a curve when generating a new curve?
618 2014-06-04 08:33:05 papa3 has joined
619 2014-06-04 08:33:12 <t7> well i can see why i guess but shouldn't it be nearly impossible todo?
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621 2014-06-04 08:33:31 <t7> maths gives me headaches
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661 2014-06-04 09:07:52 <wumpus> hm does anyone perhaps know of a way to get the list of people that contributed to the translations on transifex starting from a certain time? it'd be nice to include them in the release notes credits as well
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669 2014-06-04 09:12:25 <runeks> Is it bitcoind's fault or my setup's fault that all new block files are created with 600 permissions?
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687 2014-06-04 09:28:14 <fanquake> ;;blocks
688 2014-06-04 09:28:15 <gribble> 304172
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692 2014-06-04 09:37:53 <plaprade> How did this transaction end up in the blockchain ebc9fa1196a59e192352d76c0f6e73167046b9d37b8302b6bb6968dfd279b767? It has an output script that is advertised as lenght=1 but the script is of length 2 (the opcode is 0x01 so it should consume 1 byte)
693 2014-06-04 09:39:56 <sipa> from the block validity rules, scripts are byte arrays that can contain anything
694 2014-06-04 09:40:10 <sipa> it's only when spending that they are parsed and evaluated
695 2014-06-04 09:40:58 <plaprade> Oh ok. So bitcoind just assumes the script is of size 1 and ignores the content until it gets spent.
696 2014-06-04 09:41:01 derbumi has joined
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698 2014-06-04 09:41:44 <sipa> not "assumes"; it is of length 1
699 2014-06-04 09:41:57 <sipa> but indeed
700 2014-06-04 09:42:29 <plaprade> ok, thanks for the clarification
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706 2014-06-04 09:50:48 <runeks> sipa: Would you accept a patch that adds an option that, when enabled, skips setting the umask to 077 in init.cpp (https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/master/src/init.cpp#L425)?
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714 2014-06-04 09:58:19 <sipa> as an option, sure
715 2014-06-04 09:58:30 <sipa> but it does sound dangerous, for the wallet
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718 2014-06-04 10:01:28 <runeks> sipa: I only intend to use it when bitcoind isn't managing the wallet (but Armory is), but I'm not sure if we should make sure that people don't do something stupid. That'd be a lot more work (selectively writing the wallet with a 077 umask). I have a 12-line diff that just skips setting the umask if an option is enabled right now.
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723 2014-06-04 10:10:53 <fanquake> runeks Probably best to just submit a pull request, then everyone can look over/discuss what your proposing
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732 2014-06-04 10:16:43 <runeks> fanquake: Cool. I'll do that.
733 2014-06-04 10:17:32 <wumpus> runeks: just forbid the option when the wallet is enabled
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735 2014-06-04 10:17:57 <wumpus> (so, only allow it in combination with -disablewallet or if it is a wallet-less build)
736 2014-06-04 10:18:13 <dsnrk> just to give some forewarning, the developers are probably going to get a little flood of questions about a paper posted on reddit, "Deanonymisation of clients in Bitcoin P2P network".
737 2014-06-04 10:18:48 <runeks> wumpus: Good idea. That should solve it. Hope that isn't too tricky.
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739 2014-06-04 10:19:45 <wumpus> runeks: in general I'm all in favor of options that make the block chain data more accessible, as long as it doesn't require lots of extra code or indices
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742 2014-06-04 10:21:12 <gmaxwell> wumpus: The Ashley Holman commit recently to abort if a block was missing from the disk moved blockreading into an assert side effect.
743 2014-06-04 10:21:27 <wumpus> gmaxwell: ugh
744 2014-06-04 10:21:52 <gmaxwell> (I was aware of this, I've just been too slammed to PR the 10 character fix. :P)
745 2014-06-04 10:22:25 stuntkite has joined
746 2014-06-04 10:22:27 <wumpus> ok I can do the fix, no problem
747 2014-06-04 10:22:33 <gmaxwell> yea, trivial.
748 2014-06-04 10:22:44 <gmaxwell> I was happy to see the decision to refuse to compile otherwise validated, sad I missed it in review before it was pulled.
749 2014-06-04 10:23:27 <runeks> So if ENABLE_WALLET is not defined it's a wallet-less build?
750 2014-06-04 10:23:40 <wumpus> luckily it's not in 0.9.2
751 2014-06-04 10:23:42 <wumpus> runeks: yes
752 2014-06-04 10:23:47 <runeks> OK
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830 2014-06-04 11:25:00 <runeks> OK. Done. Let me know what you think: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/4286
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845 2014-06-04 11:37:08 <t7> _ is a valid function name?
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862 2014-06-04 11:47:29 <jtimon> sipa: it seems I will get that error after the rebase as someone else has used the TestNet() global function there that I have deleted in #3824
863 2014-06-04 11:48:07 <jtimon> if I can find the PR that introduces that it may be simpler to find yet another name for a flag variable...
864 2014-06-04 11:48:42 <jtimon> well, probably using the networkId directly will do it
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867 2014-06-04 11:49:33 <jtimon> seems like regtest is ignored there though:
868 2014-06-04 11:49:33 <jtimon> // Payment request network matches client network?
869 2014-06-04 11:49:33 <jtimon> if ((details.network() == "main" && TestNet()) ||
870 2014-06-04 11:49:33 <jtimon> (details.network() == "test" && !TestNet()))
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873 2014-06-04 11:54:13 <jtimon> yeah, this commit broke my PR: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/commit/bdc83e8f450456c9f547f1c4eab43571bac631c2
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879 2014-06-04 11:57:04 <jtimon> what values can details.network() take? only "main" and "test"? should regtest always fail in the payment protocol?
880 2014-06-04 11:57:34 <sipa> hearn: any opinion about payment requests in relation to -regtest?
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890 2014-06-04 12:06:14 <jtimon> what about this?
891 2014-06-04 12:06:14 <jtimon> // Payment request network matches client network?
892 2014-06-04 12:06:14 <jtimon> if ((details.network() == "main" && Params().NetworkID() != CChainParams::MAIN) ||
893 2014-06-04 12:06:14 <jtimon> (details.network() == "test" && Params().NetworkID() != CChainParams::TESTNET) ||
894 2014-06-04 12:06:14 <jtimon> (details.network() != "test" && details.network() != "main" ))
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896 2014-06-04 12:07:45 <jtimon> or this:
897 2014-06-04 12:07:45 <jtimon> // Payment request network matches client network?
898 2014-06-04 12:07:45 <jtimon> if ((details.network() == "main" && Params().NetworkID() != CChainParams::MAIN) ||
899 2014-06-04 12:07:45 <jtimon> (details.network() == "test" && Params().NetworkID() != CChainParams::TESTNET) ||
900 2014-06-04 12:07:45 <jtimon> (details.network() == "regtest" && Params().NetworkID() != CChainParams::REGTEST))
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903 2014-06-04 12:11:18 <jtimon> I could also create a netwrokStr param that contains "main", "test" or "regtest" and do something like:
904 2014-06-04 12:11:18 <jtimon> if (details.network() != Params().NetworkStr())
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907 2014-06-04 12:17:18 <sipa> perhaps even more specific: Params().GetPaymentProtocolNetworkName() ?
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911 2014-06-04 12:19:23 <jtimon> yeah, maybe
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914 2014-06-04 12:21:41 <jtimon> although I think I would have liked something more generic that is used elsewhere (although the payment protocol using "test" instead of "testnet") seems a barrier to that approach...
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916 2014-06-04 12:22:01 <jtimon> is there a reason why "test" is used over "testnet"?
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920 2014-06-04 12:24:42 <sipa> i don't think anyone cared enough :)
921 2014-06-04 12:25:03 <wumpus> what does it matter, any unique string will do
922 2014-06-04 12:25:43 <sipa> using something like GetPaymentProtocolNetworkName() would discourage using it for other purposes
923 2014-06-04 12:26:09 <sipa> which is good imho, you shouldn't ever check for the presence of a particular network, only for properties of it
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925 2014-06-04 12:26:26 <wumpus> I'm not sure it should be there at all: payment protocol stuff is specific to the GUI
926 2014-06-04 12:26:52 <sipa> fair enough, but how would you solve it otherwise?
927 2014-06-04 12:27:01 <wumpus> a mapping from CChainParams::networkID to payment request network in the payment server code would do just as well
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929 2014-06-04 12:27:32 <sipa> sounds ok
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931 2014-06-04 12:27:41 <wumpus> no need to centralize everything :-)
932 2014-06-04 12:27:48 <sipa> agree
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935 2014-06-04 12:28:35 <jtimon> mhmm, whare should that map be? directly in PaymentServer::processPaymentRequest ?
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937 2014-06-04 12:29:29 <wumpus> PaymentServer::mapPaymentProtocolNetworkNameToChainParamsID :p
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939 2014-06-04 12:30:02 <wumpus> OrPreferablySomethingShorter
940 2014-06-04 12:30:03 <jtimon> oh I see, not a map structure, just a method
941 2014-06-04 12:30:18 <jtimon> ok
942 2014-06-04 12:31:03 <wumpus> well, it could be either, I mean creating a QMap for two entries makes little sense, unless you expect to load them from a file or so at some point
943 2014-06-04 12:31:28 <jtimon> I think I like a maping from the chainparamsId to the payment protocol network name
944 2014-06-04 12:31:40 <jtimon> and any of them will do it
945 2014-06-04 12:31:59 <sipa> what is more likely: a network name that corresponds to multiple networks, or a network with multiple names? :)
946 2014-06-04 12:32:09 <sipa> </bikeshed>
947 2014-06-04 12:32:28 <jtimon> yeah, I'll go with the simple map
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950 2014-06-04 12:33:31 <jtimon> I guess both testnet and regtest could correspond to the same "test" name, no idea if it makes any sense but doesn't seem like the other way around makes sense at all
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955 2014-06-04 12:37:29 <wumpus> hmm, I don't know, I suppose it needs a BIP change but defining an identifier specifically for regtest makes sense to me
956 2014-06-04 12:37:43 KuDeTa has joined
957 2014-06-04 12:38:57 <wumpus> it's a string field, it's not like we'd run out of possible values any time soon if we'd assign a network name for regtest
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959 2014-06-04 12:41:02 <KuDeTa> So gavin seems confident mining won't be an issue in the future. Why is that?? Moor's law? Clearly with the switches from cpu-gpu-asic there was a lot of room for change and competition, but once we hit the fabrication limits of asics (19nm?) then the pace of growth in the tech should slow down to approximate Moore's Law right?
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964 2014-06-04 12:44:27 <KuDeTa> I guess the competition will be about price by that point. But what if instead of shaking up up the playing field, companies take it in house on a big scale and mining becomes totally centralised without us even knowing
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969 2014-06-04 12:53:12 <jtimon> I still don't see why we can't have a general network string that is used everywhere (don't see the need for a specific network name for the payment protocol at all)
970 2014-06-04 12:57:08 <sipa> that would have been a nice thing to realize before the payment protocol was written
971 2014-06-04 12:57:15 <sipa> i don't think it's important enough to bother with now
972 2014-06-04 12:57:40 <wumpus> jtimon: that's just how things go in reality, if you have distributed development
973 2014-06-04 12:58:17 <wumpus> there is no central planning commission deciding single network name strings to use everywhere
974 2014-06-04 12:58:37 <sipa> namespacing will always be hard
975 2014-06-04 12:59:10 <wumpus> yes indeed, though in this case it isn't even a problem; scoping the names to a single protocol is fine
976 2014-06-04 12:59:35 <sipa> see the nice discussion about how to identify networks in bip32/bip43/...
977 2014-06-04 13:00:29 <wumpus> at least with strings there isn't the problem that there is a limited number of options and a large chance of conflicts, like with the address byte
978 2014-06-04 13:01:01 <jtimon> I think I remembe that, I think a hash of the genesis block would be a great id (which is altcoin proof, though nobody seems to care about that)
979 2014-06-04 13:01:13 yubrew has joined
980 2014-06-04 13:01:36 * sipa mentions zooko's triangle
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982 2014-06-04 13:02:10 <jtimon> yeah a hash is not memorable, so what?
983 2014-06-04 13:02:23 <jtimon> afk, going to eat
984 2014-06-04 13:03:48 omefire1 has joined
985 2014-06-04 13:03:54 <sipa> it's more that there are already so many independent netowrk identifiers out there, you won't "fix the world"
986 2014-06-04 13:04:19 mapppum has joined
987 2014-06-04 13:04:54 mpmcsweeney has joined
988 2014-06-04 13:04:56 <sipa> there's address versions, private keys, network magic, bip32 versions, payment protocol names, ... to an extent even the default P2P port (as that is presumed to be the way to reach DNS-provided peers)
989 2014-06-04 13:05:54 <wumpus> right, picking a new way will never 'fix the world', better to encourage new developments to use one of the existing identifiers instead of invent new ones
990 2014-06-04 13:06:10 yubrew has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
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995 2014-06-04 13:13:12 <Zoop_> http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/27a3eb/deanonymisation_of_bitcoin_clients/
996 2014-06-04 13:13:31 <Zoop_> linking IP's to transactions?
997 2014-06-04 13:13:40 stalled has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
998 2014-06-04 13:14:22 <SomeoneWeird> sigh
999 2014-06-04 13:14:48 <wumpus> Zoop_: just use TOR if that is a problem for you
1000 2014-06-04 13:15:14 <Zoop_> aparently, tor doesn't save you either
1001 2014-06-04 13:15:57 <wumpus> probably not if your opponent can snoop all internet connections on the world at the same time
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1005 2014-06-04 13:17:19 <Zoop_> "this requires only a bit of sophistication on the part of the attacker and is very cheap to mount."
1006 2014-06-04 13:17:35 <Zoop_> i'm just wondering if devs know about this new paper
1007 2014-06-04 13:17:49 <Zoop_> i have no intentions of flaming anything
1008 2014-06-04 13:18:07 <KuDeTa> We also show that using Tor and other public proxies is an inefficient countermeasure and can be bypassed
1009 2014-06-04 13:18:18 <wumpus> so, how do they bypass tor?
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1012 2014-06-04 13:20:40 <Zoop_> We also show that a natu-
1013 2014-06-04 13:20:41 <Zoop_> ral countermeasure of using Tor or other anonymity services
1014 2014-06-04 13:20:41 <Zoop_> can be cut-off by abusing anti-DoS countermeasures of the
1015 2014-06-04 13:20:41 <Zoop_> bitcoin network. Our attacks require only a few machines
1016 2014-06-04 13:20:41 <Zoop_> and have been experimentally verified. We propose several
1017 2014-06-04 13:20:41 <Zoop_> countermeasures to mitigate these new attacks
1018 2014-06-04 13:20:59 <Zoop_> err... sorry for so many lines
1019 2014-06-04 13:21:02 <wumpus> please stop pasting from the paper
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1025 2014-06-04 13:24:01 <wumpus> oh, seems they attempt to get tor nodes disconnected by mounting DoSes from tor, would that work at all?
1026 2014-06-04 13:24:18 <sipa> no, known bug
1027 2014-06-04 13:24:24 <wumpus> tor connections come from 127.0.0.1 and AFAIK that never gets blocked
1028 2014-06-04 13:24:30 <sipa> indeed
1029 2014-06-04 13:24:41 <Jouke> They are talking about tor exit nodes
1030 2014-06-04 13:24:50 <wumpus> so I don't see how their method would work at all
1031 2014-06-04 13:25:00 <wumpus> Jouke: so they forget about hidden services
1032 2014-06-04 13:25:08 <Jouke> something like that
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1034 2014-06-04 13:25:46 <wumpus> even if they mounted their attack and got all the exit nodes banned, there would still be the hidden services
1035 2014-06-04 13:25:55 <dsnrk> for what it's worth, I actually tried connecting a node up to a broken SOCKS proxy and recorded the packets sent by bitcoind. nothing was leaked and no non-SOCKS connections were made outbound.
1036 2014-06-04 13:27:02 <wumpus> dsnrk: right, a large number of people use it behind Tor so I wouldn't really expect issues there
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1039 2014-06-04 13:27:36 <Zoop_> They claim the cost of the attack on the full Bitcoin network to be under 1500 EUR/month too
1040 2014-06-04 13:28:37 <wumpus> dsnrk: just be sure to use a socks4a or 5 proxy, not socks4, as that doesn't allow DNS lookups and thus you'd still leak those
1041 2014-06-04 13:29:16 <dsnrk> wumpus: normally I listen on IPv4/6 so there's no expectation of privacy. I read this paper and wanted to see if the things in it were correct.
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1048 2014-06-04 13:32:09 <dsnrk> wumpus: I personally don't believe much of it because they 1) think checkpoints are a security feature 2) think that anonymous nodes should "authenticate" with each other.
1049 2014-06-04 13:32:41 <jtimon> sipa wumpus : https://github.com/jtimon/bitcoin/commit/b1c9012451313a4c0b4db88f26f339cbce5f51fc
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1051 2014-06-04 13:33:24 <wumpus> well I'm sure there is a kernel of truth in there, it makes sense to read what they found and what solutions they propose, but it's not exactly a reason for panic
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1055 2014-06-04 13:34:50 <wumpus> jtimon: I don't like putting the emit message(tr("Payment request rejected"), tr("Unsupported networkID."), CClientUIInterface::MSG_ERROR); inside the mapping function
1056 2014-06-04 13:34:55 <dsnrk> their proposed solution is authentication between nodes to prevent DOS. that absolutely can't happen just due to how cheap it is to make an identity.
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1058 2014-06-04 13:35:21 <wumpus> jtimon: just make it a pure mapping function, and do the error handling at the call site
1059 2014-06-04 13:35:32 <jtimon> wumpus: so returning "" should be enough?
1060 2014-06-04 13:35:34 <wumpus> dsnrk: sounds like overkill
1061 2014-06-04 13:35:37 <wumpus> jtimon: yes
1062 2014-06-04 13:35:43 <jtimon> ok
1063 2014-06-04 13:36:04 <dsnrk> wumpus: out of interest did they contact the developers in private with their DOS bug?
1064 2014-06-04 13:36:12 <wumpus> dsnrk: what I like about P2P networks is that there is no need for peers to authenticate themselves, they're all interchangable
1065 2014-06-04 13:37:02 <wumpus> dsnrk: which DoS bug?
1066 2014-06-04 13:37:43 <dsnrk> in the conclusion they mention they found a memory exhaustion bug they think can be used to cause a netsplit.
1067 2014-06-04 13:37:44 <jtimon> wumpus: done https://github.com/jtimon/bitcoin/commit/f0a83fc256023f68cc046bd096de69f16ce9d394
1068 2014-06-04 13:38:17 <dsnrk> wumpus: oh it's just the addr message packing bug
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1071 2014-06-04 13:38:44 <dsnrk> nice that they attacked the real network using it though
1072 2014-06-04 13:38:51 <wumpus> dsnrk: we did fix a possible memory exhaustion bug related to addr messages in 0.9.2
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1074 2014-06-04 13:39:57 <dsnrk> wumpus: https://i.imgur.com/VvNS8ut.jpg < sound the same to you?
1075 2014-06-04 13:40:15 <wumpus> yes, it's the same
1076 2014-06-04 13:40:19 benrcole has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1077 2014-06-04 13:40:55 <dsnrk> convenient
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1079 2014-06-04 13:42:43 <wumpus> jtimon: great!
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1113 2014-06-04 14:15:17 <kostaz> Hi guys
1114 2014-06-04 14:16:16 <kostaz> I can't find operator>> for CMessageHeader to explain "hdrbuf >> hdr" in CNetMessage::readHeader().
1115 2014-06-04 14:16:22 <kostaz> Can anyone help?
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1133 2014-06-04 14:31:34 <andytoshi> that is the >> operator on hdrbuf, which is a member of CNetMessage of type CDataStream
1134 2014-06-04 14:33:01 <andytoshi> it is defined serialize.h:1082; it's a template which just calls Unserialize on the CMessageHeader.. this is defined by the IMPLEMENT_SERIALIZE macro
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1152 2014-06-04 14:51:35 <Dizzle> Is there a good guide to having multiple instances of bitcoind or bitcoin-qt on the same machine? Looking to build head of master, but don't want it touch my regular release cycle wallet.
1153 2014-06-04 14:53:26 <wumpus> Dizzle: just provide different -datadir=xxx
1154 2014-06-04 14:53:31 <jgarzik> Dizzle, what are you trying to do? simulate a network? google for "bitcoin test net in a box"
1155 2014-06-04 14:53:50 <jgarzik> Dizzle, in general, that is discouraged, because the network tries harder to ignore your node
1156 2014-06-04 14:53:59 <Dizzle> wumpus: thanks
1157 2014-06-04 14:54:20 <Dizzle> jgarzik: probably won't have them running at the same time, but this test net in a box sounds really useful for playing around, thanks!
1158 2014-06-04 14:55:14 <wumpus> regtest is even better for playing around
1159 2014-06-04 14:56:49 <gavinandresen_> Dizzle: see qa/rpc-tests/ for some examples of running multiple nodes in regtest mode on the same machine
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1198 2014-06-04 15:25:07 <chichov> how come that Multisig transactions are limited to n-of-3?
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1205 2014-06-04 15:30:07 <chichov> I see the explanation that the signature + pubkey size is approx 145 bytes; this times 3 and it builds an upper bound for the 500 bytes
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1207 2014-06-04 15:30:24 <chichov> however, do the signatures have to be necessarily accompanied by their corresponding public keys?
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1214 2014-06-04 15:34:49 <sipa> how could you otherwise verify them?
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1216 2014-06-04 15:36:20 <chichov> sipa: according to BIP11 these are provided in scriptPubKey
1217 2014-06-04 15:36:50 <sipa> for raw pubkey transactions yes
1218 2014-06-04 15:37:01 <chichov> thus, you could stuff scriptSig with at most 500/80 =~ 6 signatures
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1220 2014-06-04 15:37:43 <chichov> mhm, I see, so you also take into consideration pay-to-pubkeyhash transactions here?
1221 2014-06-04 15:37:55 <sipa> oh, you're asking why only up to 3 was made standard?
1222 2014-06-04 15:38:05 <chichov> yep
1223 2014-06-04 15:38:08 <sipa> no technical reason, just being conservative
1224 2014-06-04 15:38:53 <chichov> can you also provide pay-to-pubkeyhash addresses?
1225 2014-06-04 15:39:11 <sipa> try to work out how that could work :)
1226 2014-06-04 15:39:18 <chichov> I don't see a way, heh
1227 2014-06-04 15:39:30 <sipa> note that the script language does not have a concept of 'addresses'
1228 2014-06-04 15:39:38 <sipa> addresses are just shorthands for particular scriptPubKeys
1229 2014-06-04 15:39:40 <chichov> well, there is one, but it's a bit difficult
1230 2014-06-04 15:39:56 <sipa> it's possible yes, but there is little benefit
1231 2014-06-04 15:40:14 <sipa> the one constructing the multisig address should have the public keys anyway in order to spend
1232 2014-06-04 15:41:36 <chichov> hm, do you mean the pay-to-scripthash transaction in combination with multisig when you say "multisig address"?
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1234 2014-06-04 15:43:19 <chichov> nevermind, I'm a bit fresh in that respect and will read up on it
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1239 2014-06-04 15:45:56 <sipa> by multisig address i really mean p2sh with embedded multisig script
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1321 2014-06-04 16:46:04 <kostaz> andytoshi, thank you! I got it. :-)
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1343 2014-06-04 17:07:07 <chichov> how's it possible to make a m-of-n multisig with P2SH for n > 3 if scriptSig is limited to 500 bytes?
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1347 2014-06-04 17:07:46 <sipa> scriptSig is only limited to 500 bytes by standardness
1348 2014-06-04 17:07:59 <sipa> you can already do 5 or so
1349 2014-06-04 17:08:03 <chichov> could you elaborate on that?
1350 2014-06-04 17:08:09 <sipa> 33 byte pubkeys, 72 byte signatures
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1352 2014-06-04 17:08:24 <sipa> there is no size restriction on script sizes in the consensus rules
1353 2014-06-04 17:08:41 <sipa> it's only a policy rule not to relay/mine too large scripts
1354 2014-06-04 17:08:52 <sipa> which afaik git master weakens
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1356 2014-06-04 17:09:33 <chichov> so the reference client's policy doesn't allow relaying/mining of too large scriptSigs (beyond 500 bytes)
1357 2014-06-04 17:09:53 <chichov> whilst other nodes don't necessarily have to enforce that rule?
1358 2014-06-04 17:10:01 <sipa> right
1359 2014-06-04 17:10:14 <chichov> it's still a problem if the majority uses the reference client
1360 2014-06-04 17:10:27 <sipa> well git master doesn't have that restriction anymore
1361 2014-06-04 17:10:33 <sipa> so 0.10 likely won't
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1363 2014-06-04 17:10:44 <chichov> 0.10?
1364 2014-06-04 17:10:49 <chichov> oh
1365 2014-06-04 17:10:52 <sipa> the next major release
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1367 2014-06-04 17:11:10 <chichov> so it has been taken out, nice
1368 2014-06-04 17:11:18 <chichov> then bigger m-of-n multisigs will be allowed
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1370 2014-06-04 17:11:20 <sipa> not out, just relaxed
1371 2014-06-04 17:11:27 <chichov> to how much?
1372 2014-06-04 17:11:39 <sipa> enough for up to 15 iirc
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1375 2014-06-04 17:11:53 <sipa> at which point you hit the limit of p2sh script sizes
1376 2014-06-04 17:11:56 <sipa> which is consensus rule
1377 2014-06-04 17:12:06 <sipa> (520 bytes of script push)
1378 2014-06-04 17:12:21 <sipa> as you can't pack more than 15 (or was it 16) pubkeys in there
1379 2014-06-04 17:12:33 <chichov> I believe 15 pubkeys was the limit
1380 2014-06-04 17:12:46 <sipa> "was" ?
1381 2014-06-04 17:12:49 <chichov> 15*33 bytes
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1383 2014-06-04 17:12:58 <sipa> there's a push in front of each
1384 2014-06-04 17:13:08 <sipa> yup, 15
1385 2014-06-04 17:13:14 <chichov> + pushes, yep
1386 2014-06-04 17:13:47 <chichov> I see the maximum scriptSig size is now 1650 bytes
1387 2014-06-04 17:14:08 <chichov> exactly enough for a 15-of-15 P2SH multisig
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1389 2014-06-04 17:14:22 <sipa> yup
1390 2014-06-04 17:14:30 <chichov> nice
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1392 2014-06-04 17:15:54 <chichov> where in the code can I find the restriction to 3 pubkeys in a standard multisig transaction?
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1394 2014-06-04 17:18:00 <chichov> nevermind, found it in script.cpp
1395 2014-06-04 17:18:51 <chichov> how come that hasn't been relaxed as well? to enforce a non-space-wasting transaction type?
1396 2014-06-04 17:20:08 <sipa> if we'd design bitcoin today it would be p2sh only :)
1397 2014-06-04 17:20:22 <chichov> hehe, I see
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1399 2014-06-04 17:20:56 <sipa> lower usage of UTXO space, better privacy, no need for the sender to know the full script (which is the receiver's business), ...
1400 2014-06-04 17:21:17 <sipa> a marginal security improvement too (though only compared to raw pubkeys, not compared to pubkeyhash)
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1426 2014-06-04 17:45:05 <moarrr> can anyone help me
1427 2014-06-04 17:45:08 <moarrr> im building bitcoin core from sources
1428 2014-06-04 17:45:21 <Luke-Jr> moarrr: #bitcoin
1429 2014-06-04 17:45:22 <moarrr> i think ive installed all the dependancies desribes in doc/build-unix.md
1430 2014-06-04 17:45:27 <moarrr> oh ok
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1446 2014-06-04 18:00:37 <ajweiss> if i notice a potential issue in an open PR, is it best to comment directly on the PR or is it better to bring it up in here first?
1447 2014-06-04 18:01:27 <sipa> i see no reason for not commenting on the PR directly
1448 2014-06-04 18:01:37 <sipa> unless you're very uncertain, and want some other opinion first :)
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1453 2014-06-04 18:02:40 <ajweiss> so PR3640 doesn't fix the fact that you can't run bitcoind -conf=blah where the config file specifies the datadir and the default datadir is unwritable
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1459 2014-06-04 18:05:30 <ajweiss> it seems to me that you'd want to read the config file first before checking the data directory
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1461 2014-06-04 18:06:00 <sipa> feel free to comment :)
1462 2014-06-04 18:07:12 <ajweiss> i'd consider submitting a patch, but i assume since it's an already open PR that probably makes things messier
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1490 2014-06-04 18:37:27 <wumpus> there are just too many ways in which the various datadir/conf/etc options can interact
1491 2014-06-04 18:38:47 <wumpus> but indeed, my fix is wrong too
1492 2014-06-04 18:38:53 <wumpus> it assumes that the config file is in the datadir
1493 2014-06-04 18:39:00 <wumpus> which is not necessarily true
1494 2014-06-04 18:39:50 <wumpus> I'm kind of tired of it (that's also why I haven't merged it yet -- I'm not certain of it), so if you want to take over the PR, that's fine with me
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1499 2014-06-04 18:43:29 <wumpus> it may make sense to first document clearly what the intended behavior should be (don't forget it's even more complex for the GUI, which allows setting the datadir in the registry), then test the implementation against that
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1503 2014-06-04 18:51:04 <jgarzik> wumpus, IMO, if you see a datadir directive in the config, throw an error.
1504 2014-06-04 18:51:15 <jgarzik> wumpus, that will document by showing
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1507 2014-06-04 18:53:25 <wumpus> right
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1509 2014-06-04 18:55:03 <wumpus> though I think it can be useful in some cases, just to be able to do bitcoind -conf=/etc/bitcoind.conf without having to set the datadir explicitly as well as it's set in the configuration file
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1512 2014-06-04 18:55:06 <ajweiss> yeah i was thinking about that, does the config file neccessarily live in the datadir
1513 2014-06-04 18:55:29 <ajweiss> it's somewhat unspecified
1514 2014-06-04 18:55:40 <wumpus> no, it does not, that's why -conf exists
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1517 2014-06-04 18:57:41 <ajweiss> i would think it would be nice to be able to keep the datadir in the config file
1518 2014-06-04 18:58:18 <wumpus> but I suppose: only if the conf option is provided
1519 2014-06-04 18:58:42 <ajweiss> imagine a binary distribution for a linux distro... they might stick the config file in /etc/bitcoind/bitcoind.conf
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1521 2014-06-04 18:58:46 <wumpus> if the configuration file is read from the default location in the datadir, it makes no sense to specify a datadir
1522 2014-06-04 18:59:03 <ajweiss> i'd want to be able to go there to change the datadir, rather than messing with init scripts
1523 2014-06-04 18:59:09 <wumpus> (not sure what the behavior there is right now, but it's easy to create chicken-and-eggs problems)
1524 2014-06-04 18:59:38 <ajweiss> yeah it seems that historically datadir served as the primary way to change configurations
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1526 2014-06-04 19:01:00 <wumpus> yes it was a bad design in the first place to expect everything in the same directory, in many OSes there are clear rules about where to put configuration, mutable data, etc, but alas we inherited it
1527 2014-06-04 19:01:21 <wumpus> and now how to move away from it is not clear-cut
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1533 2014-06-04 19:03:07 <ajweiss> so it seems precedence would be: command line config file, command line datadir -> config file, default datadir -> config file
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1535 2014-06-04 19:03:23 <ajweiss> so in the worst case you might change datadirs twice
1536 2014-06-04 19:04:24 <ajweiss> but having a default config file of *DEFAULTDIR*/bitcoin.conf regardless of whether or not you put the data there doesn't seem bad
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1539 2014-06-04 19:05:15 <wumpus> well as long as you don'tmake it impossible to specificy -datadir= *without* -conf= ...
1540 2014-06-04 19:05:33 <wumpus> in that case the configuration is assumed to be in the specified datadir
1541 2014-06-04 19:05:43 <wumpus> not in the default datadir
1542 2014-06-04 19:05:52 <ajweiss> yeah... that's the middle one
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1544 2014-06-04 19:06:54 <ajweiss> actually
1545 2014-06-04 19:06:57 <ajweiss> scratch precedence
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1547 2014-06-04 19:07:17 <wumpus> and don't forget the datadir caching, it makes things even more complicated
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1549 2014-06-04 19:07:29 <ajweiss> yeah ReadConfig clears it though
1550 2014-06-04 19:07:32 <wumpus> once you've called GetDatadir(...) it's stuck at that
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1553 2014-06-04 19:07:51 <ajweiss> last line in the function
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1555 2014-06-04 19:08:14 <wumpus> really counterintuitive, I think it'd be better to have an imperative function that determines the data directory, instead of trying to compute and cache it at first use
1556 2014-06-04 19:08:48 <ajweiss> yeah, i hate the name GetDataDir()
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1558 2014-06-04 19:09:28 <ajweiss> alright how about i prepare a patch with proposed behavior and some test cases
1559 2014-06-04 19:10:01 <wumpus> GetDataDir() should just return a string variable which is set before in initialization
1560 2014-06-04 19:10:17 <ajweiss> agreed
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1588 2014-06-04 19:53:42 <ajweiss> alright if i want to propose a clear behavior, should i open a new issue or just keep the discussion in the existing PR?
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1591 2014-06-04 19:56:50 <sipa> if it's a small suggested change, you can offer it as a suggestion in a comment on the PR
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1593 2014-06-04 19:57:17 <sipa> if you want to offer a very different way of doing things and don't mind implementing it, do it as a separate PR
1594 2014-06-04 19:57:57 <ajweiss> ok so write the patch first before proposing different behavior?
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1596 2014-06-04 19:58:45 <sipa> up to you
1597 2014-06-04 19:59:02 <sipa> ideas that are implemented carry more weight :)
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1600 2014-06-04 20:00:12 <ajweiss> ok i'm just gonna propose the behavior, and if no one complains i'll put a PR together
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1639 2014-06-04 20:24:03 <sipa> does anyone understand accounting_tests?
1640 2014-06-04 20:24:14 <sipa> BOOST_CHECK(results.size() == 4);
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1642 2014-06-04 20:24:39 <sipa> oh, never mind
1643 2014-06-04 20:24:44 <sipa> results is a map and not a vector
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1751 2014-06-04 21:54:14 <grunz> I've just installed pre-compiled binary Bitcoin Core for Mac(Bitcoin-Qt) and can't find command line tools like bitcoind to run headless with no GUI
1752 2014-06-04 21:54:27 <grunz> I know it's newbie question
1753 2014-06-04 21:54:38 <sipa> up to 0.9.1, no bitcoind was distributed for osx
1754 2014-06-04 21:54:48 <grunz> I see
1755 2014-06-04 21:54:57 <grunz> Thank you
1756 2014-06-04 21:55:11 <sipa> i believe it will change for 0.9.2, and if not, for 0.10.0
1757 2014-06-04 21:56:34 Starduster_ has joined
1758 2014-06-04 21:56:43 <grunz> Ok. I can build myself from the source, it just says it's not safe to build from master branch. Do you know if branch 0.9.2 is stable?
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1762 2014-06-04 21:59:03 <sipa> 0.9.2rc1 was tagged yesterday i believe
1763 2014-06-04 21:59:22 <warren> I don't think 0.9.2 has it
1764 2014-06-04 21:59:41 <sipa> 0.9.2 uses gitian osx, no?
1765 2014-06-04 21:59:52 <warren> yes, it includes the other binaries?
1766 2014-06-04 22:00:03 <sipa> i assumed so :)
1767 2014-06-04 22:00:07 <sipa> i haven't checked
1768 2014-06-04 22:00:20 <Dizzle> grunz: if you're ok with it opening the UI, but you just want it to act like bitcoind, most of the same command line parameters are accepted. e.g.:
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1770 2014-06-04 22:00:25 <Dizzle> /Applications/Bitcoin-Qt.app/Contents/MacOS/Bitcoin-Qt -server
1771 2014-06-04 22:00:43 <grunz> Dizzle: thank you.
1772 2014-06-04 22:00:55 <warren> that doesn't give him the RPC client though
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1774 2014-06-04 22:00:58 <grunz> YAGNI :-)
1775 2014-06-04 22:01:03 <sipa> you still nedd an rpc client indeed
1776 2014-06-04 22:01:29 <grunz> I can bring up linux box vagrant or virtualbox
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1778 2014-06-04 22:01:43 <grunz> I mean vagrant that uses virtualbox
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1780 2014-06-04 22:04:11 <grunz> -server Accept command line and JSON-RPC commands from docs
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1786 2014-06-04 22:07:46 <Dizzle> I could be wrong, but I think "command line" in that doc line refers to the command line RPC client in that case (not included in the 0.9.1- OS X package).
1787 2014-06-04 22:08:05 <sipa> indeed
1788 2014-06-04 22:08:06 <grunz> Dizzle: I think you are right
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1791 2014-06-04 22:08:33 <sipa> bitfoin-qt can run as gui with or without rpc server
1792 2014-06-04 22:08:45 <sipa> bitcoind cam run as either rpc server or rpc client
1793 2014-06-04 22:09:04 <sipa> since 0.9, there is also bitcoin-cli which is only rpc client
1794 2014-06-04 22:09:24 <sipa> but bitfoin-qt cannot be used as rpc client
1795 2014-06-04 22:15:11 <grunz> in GUI help there is console that says. 15:06:59  Welcome to the Bitcoin RPC console. Use up and down arrows to navigate history, and Ctrl-L to clear screen. Type help for an overview of available commands.
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1798 2014-06-04 22:15:45 <sipa> yes, you can type rpc commands there
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1800 2014-06-04 22:16:04 <sipa> but theybare processed directly
1801 2014-06-04 22:16:06 <sipa> not.iver rpc
1802 2014-06-04 22:16:14 Michail1 has joined
1803 2014-06-04 22:16:25 <sipa> (the r stands for remote...)
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1806 2014-06-04 22:17:26 <grunz> I think i just can bring up some linux box via vagrant and install rpc client there to access server on my local Mac machine
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1841 2014-06-04 22:45:27 <skinnkavaj> At 19:15, Andreas says that, within a couple years, it will be too difficult to modify the bitcoin protocol, because of network effects. He likens this to the difficultly faced upgrading from IPv4 to IPv6. Andreas thinks we need to address some core issues before that happens- anonymity, fungibility of coins, etc.
1842 2014-06-04 22:45:27 <skinnkavaj> If the core development team doesn't implement solutions to these problems before it's "too late," is everything lost? Are we resigned to decades of a second-rate cryptocurrency?
1843 2014-06-04 22:45:40 <skinnkavaj> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Vrm0EWUpds&feature=youtu.be
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1848 2014-06-04 22:52:00 <justanotheruser> skinnkavaj: what changes need to be made?
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1852 2014-06-04 22:52:57 <justanotheruser> you can already be anonymous within bitcoin using coinjoins and something like I2P
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1857 2014-06-04 22:54:16 <belcher> apparently the max block size of 1mb is a problem
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1859 2014-06-04 22:54:28 <belcher> though some people disagree, saying a removal will cause more miner centralization
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1907 2014-06-04 23:29:14 <maaku> skinnkavaj: would be nice if andreas offered up actual solutions
1908 2014-06-04 23:29:17 <maaku> or better yet, code
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1910 2014-06-04 23:34:23 <Luke-Jr> skinnkavaj: yet we're all using IPv6 today, no?
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1914 2014-06-04 23:36:24 <Luke-Jr> anyhow, anonymity isn't a goal, fungibility is mainly a legal issue (not protocol); I'd be more concerned about scalability, but he's wrong on changes being impossible anyway
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