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67 2014-06-24 01:30:07 <Luke-Jr> when we remove accounts in 0.10, what will be the replacement for getaccountaddress? :/
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69 2014-06-24 01:31:50 <gwillen> Luke-Jr: you can always just leave the concept of accounts in, and just not support creating new ones (i.e. only support the default account in new installations, and existing accounts in existing installations)
70 2014-06-24 01:32:16 <gmaxwell> getaddresslabled <x>
71 2014-06-24 01:32:17 <gmaxwell> ?
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74 2014-06-24 01:38:21 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: that doesn't currently exist :/
75 2014-06-24 01:39:03 <gmaxwell> accounts aren't removed yet
76 2014-06-24 01:40:14 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: I'd prefer to make BFGMiner work with 0.9 and 0.10 <.<
77 2014-06-24 01:42:08 <Luke-Jr> hm
78 2014-06-24 01:42:29 <Luke-Jr> I suppose if 0.10 adds a generation txn to GBT requests, it'd just work
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83 2014-06-24 01:52:26 <jgarzik> gar
84 2014-06-24 01:52:31 <jgarzik> CMutableTransaction my foot
85 2014-06-24 01:52:45 <jgarzik> why do we need a new class for a new use of the same data?
86 2014-06-24 01:53:02 * jgarzik goes to un-break a bunch of newly broken code
87 2014-06-24 01:53:47 <gmaxwell> jgarzik: because mutable and non-mutable data must be handled differently if you want to both avoid performance issues with copying and safty issues with mutation while not copying (e.g. iterator invalidation, data races, etc).
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91 2014-06-24 01:59:05 <jgarzik> ...and, the bloat increases. My code now requires multiple copies of the same data structure. Must use non-mutable to init a mutable copy and vice versa.
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93 2014-06-24 02:00:54 <gmaxwell> it shouldn't, I've not reviewed that change but its a pattern that can be done for ownership tracking with no overhead except syntatic overhead.
94 2014-06-24 02:01:59 <jgarzik> - CTransaction tx;
95 2014-06-24 02:01:59 <jgarzik> - DecodeHexTx(tx, strHexTx);
96 2014-06-24 02:01:59 <jgarzik> + CTransaction txDecodeTmp;
97 2014-06-24 02:01:59 <jgarzik> + DecodeHexTx(txDecodeTmp, strHexTx);
98 2014-06-24 02:01:59 <jgarzik> + CMutableTransaction tx(txDecodeTmp);
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100 2014-06-24 02:02:08 <gmaxwell> oh actually I think I did review that one.
101 2014-06-24 02:02:17 <jgarzik> gmaxwell, That's just a first order review.
102 2014-06-24 02:02:25 <gmaxwell> (if you're talking about the one that was merged)
103 2014-06-24 02:03:10 <jgarzik> gmaxwell, These types of changes always have second order effects. Take the above example. DecodeHexTx() cannot just decode to mutable. So you first decode, then convert to mutable, to get around the artificial gateway just erected.
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105 2014-06-24 02:05:04 <jgarzik> gmaxwell, Were we actually seeing performance issues? Safety issues with mutation?
106 2014-06-24 02:05:17 <gmaxwell> yes, they do have effects or they wouldn't be worth doingâ but the end result is you can do things like hash the transaction hash and avoid recomputing it a zillion times.
107 2014-06-24 02:05:18 <jgarzik> gmaxwell, What were the data races found?
108 2014-06-24 02:05:41 <gmaxwell> I believe it speed up sync to hight 200k by about 15%.
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111 2014-06-24 02:06:17 <gmaxwell> sha256 is the biggest cpu user during initial download (pre sigs, of course) by far, and a lot of it was redundant.
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113 2014-06-24 02:06:57 <jgarzik> gmaxwell, sure -- and that has absolutely nothing to do with turning one class into two.
114 2014-06-24 02:07:14 <jgarzik> gmaxwell, libccoin, python-bitcoinlib and others manage to cache the sha256 without needing multiple classes
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116 2014-06-24 02:08:07 <gmaxwell> yes, it doesâ simply adding caching to the mutiable side is unsafe if done the direct way.
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118 2014-06-24 02:10:35 <jgarzik> gmaxwell, unsafe how? all implementations I've seen use a hash and a isValid flag, and track the state.
119 2014-06-24 02:11:39 <gmaxwell> concurrent access that way is not safe without festooning every access with locks.
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121 2014-06-24 02:16:20 <jgarzik> gmaxwell, Irrelevant in this case. When you are mutating a transaction, it is a conscious operation, never done while others may be concurrently accessing it.
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124 2014-06-24 02:17:44 <jgarzik> gmaxwell, parallel access by definition happens on transactions that are not actively mutating
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126 2014-06-24 02:18:00 <jgarzik> otherwise they would be of no use to access in parallel with cached hash
127 2014-06-24 02:18:51 <jgarzik> "update cached data after I'm done mutating this transaction" pattern that is commonly applied to such situations works just fine, and does not require two classes.
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129 2014-06-24 02:23:34 <Luke-Jr> [01:49:49] <gmaxwell> jgarzik: because mutable and non-mutable data must be handled differently if you want to both avoid performance issues with copying and safty issues with mutation while not copying (e.g. iterator invalidation, data races, etc). <-- why not const CTransaction vs non-const? <.<
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132 2014-06-24 02:33:30 <jgarzik> Luke-Jr, nah that's a bit different
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137 2014-06-24 02:33:48 <jgarzik> Luke-Jr, compile time const is not necessarily runtime const
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139 2014-06-24 02:34:08 <jgarzik> though there is useful overlap in many situations (speaking generally)
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141 2014-06-24 02:35:01 <jgarzik> Luke-Jr, there are some exotic languages that can do what you're thinking, ones written with parallelism built in from the start.
142 2014-06-24 02:35:21 <jgarzik> *multi-threaded parallelism, or even CPU vector parallelism
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145 2014-06-24 02:38:59 <jgarzik> In any case, two classes is IMO pointless as other implementations handle this just fine. "mutation" is either building a new transaction or doing a quick update. In all of those cases, you are not touching the transaction at the same time as any other thread.
146 2014-06-24 02:39:17 <jgarzik> The in-mutation TX in question is never in any parallel access container at the time of mutation.
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148 2014-06-24 02:40:48 <jgarzik> this change has helpfully made the tiny few instances of CMutableTransaction use easy to grep for, and analyze
149 2014-06-24 02:41:13 <jgarzik> The entire premise as stated is bogus.
150 2014-06-24 02:41:34 <jgarzik> Look at _use_, not just blindly create compiler protection because.
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222 2014-06-24 03:53:02 <aloha_> Hey!
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225 2014-06-24 03:53:26 <aloha_> After days of fight, i did it! I got everything compiled and working.
226 2014-06-24 03:53:33 <aloha_> How can i start mine it now ?
227 2014-06-24 03:56:56 mdev has joined
228 2014-06-24 03:57:30 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: re "just copy bitcoind" for .bitcoin path: it uses boost -.-
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230 2014-06-24 03:58:15 <mdev> I read the stuff about accounts not scaling to thousands and tens of thousands of tranactions, but can I do that if i avoid the api regarding most the account stuff? or do I need to avoid accounts all together and just stick them in a seperate database and just generate new addresses without associated accounts in the wallet?
231 2014-06-24 03:59:08 <gmaxwell> Luke-Jr: thats why I didn't tell you to look at bitcoind
232 2014-06-24 03:59:09 <gmaxwell> 18:08 <@gmaxwell> p2pool is fairly effective, should look at what it does.
233 2014-06-24 03:59:09 <gmaxwell> 18:08 <@gmaxwell> Petertodd's dustbegone does too, though I think I suggested he pattern it after p2pool.
234 2014-06-24 03:59:31 <gmaxwell> mdev: yes.
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236 2014-06-24 04:00:29 * Luke-Jr wishes Linux didn't suck as a router OS
237 2014-06-24 04:00:36 <mdev> gmaxwell yes to what
238 2014-06-24 04:00:47 <mdev> avoid most account api or have to avoid accounts entirely in the wallet
239 2014-06-24 04:01:06 <mdev> for thousands of transactions
240 2014-06-24 04:01:10 <mdev> or 10's of thousands
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242 2014-06-24 04:01:55 <gmaxwell> mdev: if you're not using the accounts apis they don't do anything except cause you confusion and trouble.
243 2014-06-24 04:02:00 <jgarzik> +1
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246 2014-06-24 04:03:12 <mdev> well my interest is to help organize, but I guess I don't #need that in addition to keeping it in a database
247 2014-06-24 04:03:19 <mdev> if it's going to slow things down
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250 2014-06-24 04:03:50 <mdev> hopefully I don't run into any roadblocks using just addresses, since i'll need to still generate 10's of thousands of those
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255 2014-06-24 04:06:28 <mdev> as far as confirmations go, is there a minimum number I should check for(besides 1) to trust in
256 2014-06-24 04:06:49 <mdev> before considering the transaction valid
257 2014-06-24 04:09:15 <jgarzik> mdev, standard advice is 6
258 2014-06-24 04:09:39 <jgarzik> mdev, depends on the $value involved and other factors. If it's a car or house, I would wait longer than 1 hour, personally.
259 2014-06-24 04:10:01 <mdev> 6 is about an hour right? and wow very long time, ok
260 2014-06-24 04:10:28 <mdev> does bumping up the transaction fee help speed that up much?
261 2014-06-24 04:11:39 <poutine> mdev, I'm not sure how much of a dev question this is, or any of what you asked is, but I think as someone dealing with bitcoin, you should determine your own acceptable limits of liability/risk
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265 2014-06-24 04:16:03 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: yeah, this seems simpler once you find the code ;)
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271 2014-06-24 04:26:57 <aloha_> how can i mine bitcoin from deamon on ubuntu ?
272 2014-06-24 04:28:28 <Luke-Jr> aloha_: BFGMiner
273 2014-06-24 04:28:36 <Luke-Jr> aloha_: also, you need mining hardware
274 2014-06-24 04:28:43 <Luke-Jr> computers don't mine, they just control it
275 2014-06-24 04:30:20 <aloha_> I know it.
276 2014-06-24 04:30:23 <aloha_> I got avalon
277 2014-06-24 04:30:33 <aloha_> I just want to know how to mine by deamon
278 2014-06-24 04:30:35 <aloha_> on ubuntu
279 2014-06-24 04:30:42 <aloha_> can you tell me ?
280 2014-06-24 04:30:52 <aloha_> bitcoind _ _ _ _ _ _ _ ?
281 2014-06-24 04:31:04 <aloha_> bitcoin server starting
282 2014-06-24 04:31:07 <aloha_> and now ?
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287 2014-06-24 04:36:08 <mdev> cgminer is very popular mining software that the majority of pool seems to provide params for, you should check that out
288 2014-06-24 04:36:25 <mdev> there are variants like sgminer for certain altcoins and similar, but most based off cgminer
289 2014-06-24 04:36:36 <mdev> sgminer based off cgminer too
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314 2014-06-24 05:29:34 <Luke-Jr> mdev: cgminer itself is a fork of BFGMiner, which is far superior
315 2014-06-24 05:29:43 <Luke-Jr> aloha_: but in any case, this is off-topic here; this is -dev
316 2014-06-24 05:29:45 <Luke-Jr> not -mining
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318 2014-06-24 05:30:22 <mdev> weird, I see cgminer everywhere and forks off it, wonder why bfgminer lost popularity
319 2014-06-24 05:30:48 <Luke-Jr> mdev: cgminer reused the name of the GPU miner BFGMiner was based on
320 2014-06-24 05:31:15 <Luke-Jr> mdev: so BFGMiner didn't really *lose* popularity, as much as cgminer hijacked it ;)
321 2014-06-24 05:31:19 <Luke-Jr> but this is off-topic too :P
322 2014-06-24 05:31:42 <aloha_> I made shiit
323 2014-06-24 05:31:55 <aloha_> i changed .conf file while bitcoind was started
324 2014-06-24 05:31:59 Belxjander has quit (Quit: Exit())
325 2014-06-24 05:31:59 <aloha_> now i cant make anything :S
326 2014-06-24 05:32:05 <aloha_> What solve this issue
327 2014-06-24 05:32:06 <aloha_> ?
328 2014-06-24 05:32:13 <Luke-Jr> aloha_: this is also not bitcoind support
329 2014-06-24 05:32:14 Belxjander has joined
330 2014-06-24 05:34:53 <mdev> does bitcoind have its own channel?
331 2014-06-24 05:35:00 yubrew has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
332 2014-06-24 05:36:12 <Luke-Jr> mdev: #bitcoin works
333 2014-06-24 05:37:04 akstunt600 has joined
334 2014-06-24 05:37:27 <mdev> ahh not for me, banned from there for a month, cause ops can.
335 2014-06-24 05:37:33 <mdev> anyway i'll google, thanks for the help
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338 2014-06-24 05:41:07 <aloha_> cmon
339 2014-06-24 05:41:17 <aloha_> i couldnt connect the server waht i must do guys
340 2014-06-24 05:41:20 <aloha_> Plssssssssssssssssssssss
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347 2014-06-24 06:01:43 <sipa> jgarzik: look at the previous two attempts i made; in one i was actually seeing test failures i could not understand and had to work around...
348 2014-06-24 06:02:03 <sipa> jgarzik: i agree it is overkill, but it is just obviously and always correct
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351 2014-06-24 06:09:40 <sipa> jgarzik: also, but probably so far out that it doesn't really matter: CTransaction could use more efficient represebtations in memory (like allocating all related data in a single malloc)
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356 2014-06-24 06:11:37 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: reckon I want to load bitcoin.conf before or after chrooting? :P
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362 2014-06-24 06:18:19 <aloha_> Please...
363 2014-06-24 06:18:21 <aloha_> Guys
364 2014-06-24 06:18:25 <aloha_> 1h ago it was ok.
365 2014-06-24 06:18:33 <aloha_> Can you just tell me how to reset this?
366 2014-06-24 06:18:38 <aloha_> Or i need recompile again ?
367 2014-06-24 06:19:46 <AndersAA> aloha_: #bitcoin - not #bitcoin-dev
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434 2014-06-24 07:40:18 <Luke-Jr> Reviews requested for https://github.com/luke-jr/bfgminer/pull/474 (Automatically enable solo mining failover and local block submission)
435 2014-06-24 07:40:22 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: ^
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447 2014-06-24 08:04:03 <GAit> Luke-Jr: why the go to when you could just return false? also the free(rpcpass) above to goto out is redundant since the if ensures its NULL
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451 2014-06-24 08:05:35 <Luke-Jr> GAit: cleanliness
452 2014-06-24 08:05:40 <Luke-Jr> true re rpcpass tho
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454 2014-06-24 08:06:13 <Luke-Jr> GAit: wait no, because the 'goto err' later needs to free it
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461 2014-06-24 08:12:05 <GAit> yes, missed the label. other thing: if rpcpass is given and rpcuser is not given, the goto err will call free on the "" character string
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463 2014-06-24 08:12:24 <Luke-Jr> crap
464 2014-06-24 08:13:12 <Luke-Jr> thanks
465 2014-06-24 08:13:16 <GAit> also, the code only ever returns false?
466 2014-06-24 08:13:25 <GAit> nw
467 2014-06-24 08:13:44 <GAit> and its return is never checked, so either make it return something meaningful and check it or make it a void return ?
468 2014-06-24 08:15:11 <Luke-Jr> GAit: it's a callback, its return value is used to determine if it continues on to other files
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478 2014-06-24 08:22:17 <GAit> that makes sense
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650 2014-06-24 12:10:25 <dekalo> hello
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658 2014-06-24 12:20:13 BitNodes has joined
659 2014-06-24 12:20:16 <BitNodes> Hello!
660 2014-06-24 12:20:23 banghouse has joined
661 2014-06-24 12:20:29 <dekalo> how comes BitNodes
662 2014-06-24 12:20:37 lnovy has joined
663 2014-06-24 12:20:38 <BitNodes> I would like to know if somebody here can help me to set up nodes to btc network.
664 2014-06-24 12:21:09 <dekalo> nodes?
665 2014-06-24 12:21:09 <BitNodes> im getting 4 on digital ocean.
666 2014-06-24 12:21:09 <BitNodes> yes.
667 2014-06-24 12:21:20 <dekalo> have you ever use bitcoind ?
668 2014-06-24 12:21:24 <BitNodes> Yes .
669 2014-06-24 12:21:28 <dekalo> and. ?
670 2014-06-24 12:21:28 <Gabridome> there is a tutorial and a script on bitcointalk and reddit
671 2014-06-24 12:21:31 <BitNodes> a lot mate.
672 2014-06-24 12:21:34 <BitNodes> ok
673 2014-06-24 12:21:35 <hearn> All you need to do is run it, then
674 2014-06-24 12:21:54 <BitNodes> I dont need to setup nothing behind ssh ?
675 2014-06-24 12:22:02 <BitNodes> Jsut addnode ip add ?
676 2014-06-24 12:22:18 <BitNodes> I thought was needed conf the VPS.
677 2014-06-24 12:22:23 <BitNodes> for that.
678 2014-06-24 12:22:24 <hearn> not even that. you just ...... run it and let it get on with it
679 2014-06-24 12:22:36 <hearn> just keep an eye on the logs to make sure it's still running and upgrade it when new releases come out
680 2014-06-24 12:22:39 mr_burdell has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
681 2014-06-24 12:22:43 <Gabridome> you have to open the port but the script does it for you
682 2014-06-24 12:22:50 <BitNodes> Ok.
683 2014-06-24 12:23:01 <BitNodes> My point is just support bitcoin network.
684 2014-06-24 12:23:16 <BitNodes> If we keep doing this, bitcoin hard to shutdown :)
685 2014-06-24 12:23:33 <Gabridome> i did the same
686 2014-06-24 12:23:33 <dekalo> BitNodes, nice, when you stard bitcoind it gets first well-known nodes from dns seed
687 2014-06-24 12:23:46 <BitNodes> Gabridome +1
688 2014-06-24 12:24:00 <BitNodes> Ok. dekalo.
689 2014-06-24 12:24:08 <Gabridome> but lately the size of the blockchain compelled me to stop for a bit
690 2014-06-24 12:24:40 <BitNodes> hum ok.
691 2014-06-24 12:24:49 <BitNodes> digitalOcean vps seems ok right ?
692 2014-06-24 12:24:55 <hearn> should be fine
693 2014-06-24 12:25:06 <hearn> Gabridome: because of upload bandwidth?
694 2014-06-24 12:25:22 <Gabridome> I have apreciated their service and now you can also them with bitcoin
695 2014-06-24 12:25:23 <BitNodes> dekalo, my head is a big confusion then lol.. I thought I need to compile bitcoind inside the vps
696 2014-06-24 12:25:31 JackH has quit (Quit: JackH)
697 2014-06-24 12:25:34 <BitNodes> and after run it as i run daemon on my comp
698 2014-06-24 12:26:00 <BitNodes> I get 10$ free so 6nodes.
699 2014-06-24 12:26:08 <sipa> wait, are you running bitcoind on your vps our on your own system?
700 2014-06-24 12:26:08 <Gabridome> no i had only 40 giga vps and did an electrum server for my personal purpose
701 2014-06-24 12:26:24 <Gabridome> at the end I went out of space...
702 2014-06-24 12:26:44 <BitNodes> sipa atm on my laptop..
703 2014-06-24 12:26:46 weilu has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
704 2014-06-24 12:26:57 <BitNodes> but i thought i needed to run it on VPS also.
705 2014-06-24 12:27:02 <sipa> ...?
706 2014-06-24 12:27:06 <sipa> it's the same program
707 2014-06-24 12:27:10 <sipa> you run it wherever you want
708 2014-06-24 12:27:10 <Gabridome> you do have to
709 2014-06-24 12:27:14 weilu has joined
710 2014-06-24 12:27:29 <sipa> "needed" for what?
711 2014-06-24 12:27:47 <Gabridome> if you want to serve the network you have to keep it up though
712 2014-06-24 12:27:56 <BitNodes> ahhh
713 2014-06-24 12:28:11 <BitNodes> Ok, i will find more about it or i will ask help of Morb
714 2014-06-24 12:28:15 <Gabridome> uptime is essential I think. Am I wrong?
715 2014-06-24 12:28:18 <BitNodes> since he set up a lot of nodes.
716 2014-06-24 12:29:11 llllllllll has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
717 2014-06-24 12:29:47 <Gabridome> If you want to sustain the network you have to have a trustfully connected machine
718 2014-06-24 12:30:39 sustrik has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
719 2014-06-24 12:30:44 <Gabridome> a vps with large bandwith and continuous uptime is good for the network
720 2014-06-24 12:31:09 Guest95176 has quit (Quit: I'm outtie)
721 2014-06-24 12:31:15 <Luke-Jr> Gabridome: uptime isn't all that important
722 2014-06-24 12:31:25 <Luke-Jr> I mean, obviously it's better to be up 24/7
723 2014-06-24 12:31:29 <Gabridome> you can just crawl reddit or bitcointalk for "vps bitcoind"
724 2014-06-24 12:32:15 weilu has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
725 2014-06-24 12:32:50 <Gabridome> 24/7and good bandwidth is an effective help for the network
726 2014-06-24 12:33:06 <tjopper> Just a tip, if you know how to use AWS (amazon) you could run 1 node on their free tier, for a year.
727 2014-06-24 12:33:30 <Gabridome> wow
728 2014-06-24 12:33:55 <Luke-Jr> tjopper: with enough RAM for bitcoind?
729 2014-06-24 12:34:39 <tjopper> Luke-JR 512 MB
730 2014-06-24 12:35:37 <tjopper> Its not just clickable, you would have to connect your 30GB free storage to your micro instance
731 2014-06-24 12:35:42 <Gabridome> Luke-Jr: so better to limit the number of connections right?
732 2014-06-24 12:35:57 <Luke-Jr> Gabridome: totally depends on the node's resources
733 2014-06-24 12:36:23 <Gabridome> Luke-Jr: something like 40 connection max
734 2014-06-24 12:36:25 <tjopper> but feel free to dig into AWS free tier and find out if im right
735 2014-06-24 12:36:48 <Luke-Jr> tjopper: dunno if that'd be enough
736 2014-06-24 12:37:04 <Luke-Jr> Amazon decided to tell me my 1 year was up before I even know it was available :/
737 2014-06-24 12:38:02 <tjopper> I currently use it for a hosted wordpress small site, so Im not totally sure, but from paper it seems doable. I just wanted people to it.
738 2014-06-24 12:38:25 <tjopper> If somebody can verify this everybody who doesnt have an AWS could run 1 for free
739 2014-06-24 12:38:35 Zarutian has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
740 2014-06-24 12:39:25 <Luke-Jr> for a year..
741 2014-06-24 12:39:34 <Luke-Jr> then after a year, they all die and we realise we have no real nodes left
742 2014-06-24 12:39:36 <Luke-Jr> :P
743 2014-06-24 12:39:53 <tjopper> I found out a few weeks ago... Since we (blocktrail.com) were investigating hosting
744 2014-06-24 12:40:24 <tjopper> Luke-jr I agree short term
745 2014-06-24 12:40:50 <tjopper> however after people relaise how much money they did earn they would be happy ot pay in a year right ;) ?
746 2014-06-24 12:40:57 gonedrk has joined
747 2014-06-24 12:41:10 <tjopper> sorry for my English
748 2014-06-24 12:42:24 llllllllll has joined
749 2014-06-24 12:42:25 <Luke-Jr> running a node doesn't earn any money
750 2014-06-24 12:42:44 yubrew has joined
751 2014-06-24 12:43:56 <Gabridome> Luke-Jr: you gain experience though... :P
752 2014-06-24 12:44:38 <Gabridome> I see it as a small donation to the network
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783 2014-06-24 13:21:06 <robbak> Could someone yell at Mischi for me? Nice idea to get rid of sed -i, which everyone uses even if posix doesn't define it. Did he have to replace it with an ugly bash shell glob trick which isn't supported outside of bash?
784 2014-06-24 13:21:26 gonedrk has joined
785 2014-06-24 13:22:10 <dabura667_> BitNodes: rock on! I am running my full node right now!
786 2014-06-24 13:22:47 gonedrk1 has joined
787 2014-06-24 13:23:16 <dabura667_> 38 connections, currently uploading about 200kB/s consistently... I guess someone's downloading the blockchain...
788 2014-06-24 13:24:35 <sipa> RX bytes:332569404363 (332.5 GB) TX bytes:1854295388364 (1.8 TB)
789 2014-06-24 13:24:50 <jgarzik> heh
790 2014-06-24 13:24:59 <jgarzik> After tons of complaints that this is impossible,
791 2014-06-24 13:24:59 <sipa> (97 days uptime)
792 2014-06-24 13:25:06 <jgarzik> Counterparty moves to use 40-byte OP_RETURN
793 2014-06-24 13:26:07 gonedrk has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
794 2014-06-24 13:26:29 agricocb has joined
795 2014-06-24 13:27:17 arioBarzan has joined
796 2014-06-24 13:29:52 <dabura667_> jgarzik: Lowers fees considerably for CP
797 2014-06-24 13:33:02 <hearn> sipa: i really wonder where all these nodes go. we seem to upload far more blockchains than actually survive to become full nodes
798 2014-06-24 13:33:08 <hearn> i guess they sit behind NAT doing not much
799 2014-06-24 13:33:37 deup has joined
800 2014-06-24 13:34:23 <sipa> hearn: i guess many never reach full sync
801 2014-06-24 13:35:12 <Luke-Jr> hearn: re BIP 70 savings extension, I like
802 2014-06-24 13:36:50 kermit has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
803 2014-06-24 13:36:57 <hearn> Luke-Jr: cool :)
804 2014-06-24 13:37:15 <hearn> coinbase are all for it
805 2014-06-24 13:37:23 kermit has joined
806 2014-06-24 13:38:50 Pucilowski has joined
807 2014-06-24 13:39:17 <epscy> i tried to sync a new node recently and gave up
808 2014-06-24 13:39:32 <epscy> kept getting killed due to running out of memory
809 2014-06-24 13:39:48 <epscy> this was on a VPS with 512 MB memory
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816 2014-06-24 13:42:18 Clown- is now known as |Clown|
817 2014-06-24 13:46:39 Alina-malina has quit (Read error: Connection timed out)
818 2014-06-24 13:47:06 <helo> my isp hates me... it's easy for me to exceed my data limit by two to four times if i run a listening full node.
819 2014-06-24 13:48:07 ThomasV has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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821 2014-06-24 13:48:42 <helo> this is probably the case with the majority of the normal users that are ~supposed to function as the backbone of the p2p network.
822 2014-06-24 13:48:54 <hearn> yeah
823 2014-06-24 13:49:01 <hearn> we know it's painful in the extreme
824 2014-06-24 13:49:07 lolstate has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
825 2014-06-24 13:49:38 <epscy> i might try again when headers first is in, then again the VPS only has 30GB of disk space so I might not
826 2014-06-24 13:49:40 Alina-malina has joined
827 2014-06-24 13:49:44 <helo> there's nothing in the contract about my data cap... they just bug me and recommend i upgrade for a "more ideal experience" :)
828 2014-06-24 13:49:49 <hearn> Tor has a great notion of hibernation mode
829 2014-06-24 13:49:55 <sipa> headersfirst will not change resource usage
830 2014-06-24 13:50:03 <hearn> you tell it how much bandwidth you can offer and then it shuts down until the end of the month, if you exceed it
831 2014-06-24 13:50:23 lolstate has joined
832 2014-06-24 13:50:24 <sipa> making block serving optional may
833 2014-06-24 13:50:47 <wumpus> hearn: yes, that would be nice for bitcoind
834 2014-06-24 13:51:34 <sipa> or increases the chance that block serving is denied when you get close to the limit
835 2014-06-24 13:51:40 <wumpus> well not shutting down, but no longer serve blocks
836 2014-06-24 13:51:44 <hearn> right
837 2014-06-24 13:51:50 <epscy> sipa: i'm pretty sure bitcoind didn't used to need >512MB RAM, any idea what changed?
838 2014-06-24 13:52:17 <sipa> it has certainly needed that amount since a year or so
839 2014-06-24 13:52:19 Squidicc is now known as squidicuz
840 2014-06-24 13:52:24 <sipa> on 32 bit perhaps a bit less
841 2014-06-24 13:52:50 <gmaxwell> It used that much back in 0.3.x times, IIRC.
842 2014-06-24 13:53:21 <sipa> RSS or VM?
843 2014-06-24 13:53:24 <wumpus> yes it has always been a memory hog, though in some scenarios it uses more memory like the initial sync
844 2014-06-24 13:53:29 <hearn> i see a surprising number of nodes with a starting height of -1
845 2014-06-24 13:53:52 <hearn> epscy: it holds all headers in RAM so memory usage will naturally go up over time
846 2014-06-24 13:54:37 <hearn> e.g. 23mb of that is just headers, assuming the most optimal representation possible
847 2014-06-24 13:54:43 <tjopper> epscy if you get it synched you would be able to run it for "free"
848 2014-06-24 13:54:44 <hearn> but in reality they're stored in a std::map so it's more than that
849 2014-06-24 13:55:03 <hearn> not sure what the blowup factor is
850 2014-06-24 13:55:04 <wumpus> I doubt it's the headers that are problematic
851 2014-06-24 13:55:19 <wumpus> are there good tools for figuring out what the memory goes to in a C++ program?
852 2014-06-24 13:55:25 <gmaxwell> sipa: RSS, â we had a lot of prior issues which were improved.
853 2014-06-24 13:55:37 <hearn> there are tools. whether they're good or not is debatable :)
854 2014-06-24 13:55:52 <hearn> if we switched to tcmalloc then it has diagnostic and heap profiling tools built in
855 2014-06-24 13:55:53 <gmaxwell> wumpus: some allocators can output debugging, e.g. tcmalloc you just LD_PRELOAD it and set some enviroment variables.
856 2014-06-24 13:56:06 <gmaxwell> you don't have to switch, you can just ld_preload it for debugging.
857 2014-06-24 13:56:09 <wumpus> gmaxwell: ok, sounds useful
858 2014-06-24 13:56:32 <hearn> tcmalloc might yield speed improvements too, perhaps. OTOH it used to be not very good at giving back memory to the OS
859 2014-06-24 13:56:37 <hearn> it's not hard to experiment with at least
860 2014-06-24 13:56:37 <wumpus> yes I'd like to avoid having to do anything invasive, it's not conductive to repeated runs
861 2014-06-24 13:56:56 <wumpus> something with LD_PRELOAD is great
862 2014-06-24 13:56:58 <gmaxwell> I benchmarked tcmalloc and jcmalloc a while back and surprisingly there was no measurable improvment, which really surprised me.
863 2014-06-24 13:57:27 cbeams has joined
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866 2014-06-24 13:57:34 <gmaxwell> we're currently very hard on the heap allocator, the glibc malloc is better than it's often credited for. :)
867 2014-06-24 13:57:43 <Luke-Jr> I thought programs never gave memory back to the OS?
868 2014-06-24 13:57:55 <gmaxwell> Luke-Jr: they do.
869 2014-06-24 13:57:56 <wumpus> Luke-Jr: on modern linux they can (and do)
870 2014-06-24 13:58:16 <Luke-Jr> non-mmap'd memory?
871 2014-06-24 13:58:17 <gmaxwell> (perhaps on windows tcmalloc/jemalloc would be a speed improvement)
872 2014-06-24 13:58:21 <wumpus> on older OSes like solaris they generally didn't
873 2014-06-24 13:58:31 <gmaxwell> Luke-Jr: modern malloc's use mmap.
874 2014-06-24 13:59:31 torsthaldo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
875 2014-06-24 13:59:58 <wumpus> http://goog-perftools.sourceforge.net/doc/heap_profiler.html this does look useful
876 2014-06-24 14:00:44 <sipa> replacing the CCoinsViewCache with something hashmap based rather than std::map would reduce allocations too, i think :)
877 2014-06-24 14:00:51 <sipa> (and sync performance...)
878 2014-06-24 14:02:56 <hearn> gmaxwell: i think it mostly makes a difference when you have lots of threads
879 2014-06-24 14:03:14 <sipa> we're still painfully single-threaded for most things
880 2014-06-24 14:05:07 gonedrk1 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
881 2014-06-24 14:05:43 YoY has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
882 2014-06-24 14:08:48 <gdm85> npm, bower, pkmanager: what's wrong with NodeJS? :s
883 2014-06-24 14:08:57 arioBarzan has quit (Quit: Leaving...)
884 2014-06-24 14:09:35 <SomeoneWeird> gdm85: ?
885 2014-06-24 14:09:42 <gdm85> SomeoneWeird: sorry, off-topic rant
886 2014-06-24 14:09:53 <SomeoneWeird> bower is frontend stuff, never ever heard of pkmanager
887 2014-06-24 14:10:23 <gdm85> SomeoneWeird: pakmanager. I was just reading ways to install in https://github.com/FuturesJS/sequence
888 2014-06-24 14:10:42 YoY has joined
889 2014-06-24 14:11:07 <SomeoneWeird> that looks like a horrible module
890 2014-06-24 14:11:18 <SomeoneWeird> anyway, offtopic
891 2014-06-24 14:11:23 <SomeoneWeird> pm me if you wanna continue ;p
892 2014-06-24 14:11:33 pooler has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
893 2014-06-24 14:11:48 torsthaldo has joined
894 2014-06-24 14:12:13 <jtimon> does "make check" run all the test in the pull tester? how can I run those locally?
895 2014-06-24 14:13:20 mpmcsweeney has joined
896 2014-06-24 14:13:52 pooler has joined
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898 2014-06-24 14:13:52 pooler has joined
899 2014-06-24 14:14:47 <wumpus> jtimon: qa/pulltester has the scripts for the pulltester
900 2014-06-24 14:15:00 yubrew has joined
901 2014-06-24 14:15:47 DenniZ has joined
902 2014-06-24 14:15:49 <wumpus> make check is part of it, but not everything
903 2014-06-24 14:16:37 DenniZ has left ()
904 2014-06-24 14:17:14 <jtimon> thanks
905 2014-06-24 14:17:31 <skinnkavaj> <Luke-Jr> running a node doesn't earn any money
906 2014-06-24 14:17:41 daybyter has joined
907 2014-06-24 14:18:00 <skinnkavaj> Why is this not incentivized?
908 2014-06-24 14:19:05 <hearn> skinnkavaj: because it's hard and nobody did it yet. do you want to work on it?
909 2014-06-24 14:19:15 <hearn> + it may put off existing volunteers if it's made commercial (maybe)
910 2014-06-24 14:19:27 <skinnkavaj> hearn: Why would it be hard to do?
911 2014-06-24 14:19:50 <hearn> "incentivised" with what? bitcoins? so you pay for the download and then the node refuses to give it to you, for example.
912 2014-06-24 14:19:56 <hearn> so then you need micropayments
913 2014-06-24 14:20:00 <hearn> and then you need micropayment channels
914 2014-06-24 14:20:10 <hearn> and then ideally you need non-malleable transcations
915 2014-06-24 14:20:25 <skinnkavaj> hearn: Didn't you work on micropayment channels? You have been talking about it a lot if I remember correctly
916 2014-06-24 14:20:29 <hearn> micropayment channels + file download exists, i prototyped it last year with PayFile. but it's a separate app
917 2014-06-24 14:20:42 <hearn> yes. there's a desktop app that lets you pay for large file downloads on a per-chunk basis
918 2014-06-24 14:20:47 <hearn> so it could be used to download the block chain
919 2014-06-24 14:20:56 <hearn> but it's not integrated/integrateable into Core.
920 2014-06-24 14:21:38 <skinnkavaj> Does anyone have any rejection against forcing all miners to keep a full node running? As proposed by Vitalik from Ethereum
921 2014-06-24 14:21:38 <wumpus> I don't think having to pay for download of block data would work
922 2014-06-24 14:21:43 <wumpus> people would just use the torrent ;)
923 2014-06-24 14:22:46 Sambler has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
924 2014-06-24 14:22:47 <wumpus> but for rarer data the system sounds interesting
925 2014-06-24 14:23:02 <Luke-Jr> wumpus: not to mention until you have the blockchain you can't have bitcoins to pay with :P
926 2014-06-24 14:23:18 <hearn> wumpus: well, they would just download from old nodes :) i mean, bittorrent doesn't magically make bandwidth cheaper
927 2014-06-24 14:23:22 <hearn> same amount of data is gonna move no matter what
928 2014-06-24 14:23:35 <wumpus> if at some point the first (or intermediate) blocks of the block chain become very rare, there may be a market
929 2014-06-24 14:23:37 <skinnkavaj> http://bitcoinmagazine.com/14282/mining-2/ I have not heard anyone say anything bad about this proposal from Vitalik
930 2014-06-24 14:24:00 <wumpus> hearn: no it doesn't, it was meant as more of a joke, as people are used to spreading large files through torrents without expecting payments
931 2014-06-24 14:24:38 <hearn> sure
932 2014-06-24 14:24:44 <wumpus> Luke-Jr: they could pay with a SPV client :p
933 2014-06-24 14:24:57 ThomasV has joined
934 2014-06-24 14:24:58 <hearn> right, that bootstrapping problem is rather a pain :)
935 2014-06-24 14:25:07 <tjopper> skinnkavaj running a node is an "investment" which result in more knowledge about nodes, the netwerk, the protocol. So you would earn value in knowledge and being part of the network instead money :P
936 2014-06-24 14:25:08 <wumpus> Luke-Jr: on the other hand, having to pay with bitcoins to get connected to the internet would be interesting
937 2014-06-24 14:25:14 <skinnkavaj> wumpus: We have like 7000-7000 full nodes I think. Yesterday when I downloaded a movie from Piratebay it had 4000-5000 seeders and I was thinking "Why don't we have more full nodes running if a random torrent on piratebay have this much seeders?"
938 2014-06-24 14:25:38 <wumpus> skinnkavaj: right, but financial incentive is probably not the answer
939 2014-06-24 14:25:44 <deup> because the value isn't there, no entertainment
940 2014-06-24 14:26:10 <skinnkavaj> wumpus: But forcing miners to keep running full nodes as suggested by Vitalik
941 2014-06-24 14:26:17 <wumpus> skinnkavaj: hey at least torrent clients have bandwidth limits, that helps
942 2014-06-24 14:26:17 * SomeoneWeird sighs at skinnkavaj
943 2014-06-24 14:26:27 <hearn> that's true
944 2014-06-24 14:26:36 <hearn> bittorrent had more work put into it
945 2014-06-24 14:26:45 <hearn> we need to integrate bittorrent and core together in a single package :)
946 2014-06-24 14:27:00 <wumpus> some day I'm just going to add bandwidth limits to bitcoin core and get flamed by everyone :)
947 2014-06-24 14:27:32 YoY has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
948 2014-06-24 14:28:04 <tjopper> :D isn't armory downloading part of the blockchain by torrents in their latest update ?
949 2014-06-24 14:28:39 <skinnkavaj> I wouldn't be worried at all about the future of bitcoin if only the dev team had the guts to fix the pool mining problem
950 2014-06-24 14:29:15 <SomeoneWeird> wow
951 2014-06-24 14:29:19 <SomeoneWeird> why don't you fix it then?
952 2014-06-24 14:29:30 <skinnkavaj> SomeoneWeird: I am suggesting to you right now
953 2014-06-24 14:29:35 <skinnkavaj> The proposal from Vitalik
954 2014-06-24 14:29:39 <SomeoneWeird> skinnkavaj: they're not your slaves
955 2014-06-24 14:29:43 <tjopper> skinnkavaj are you asking the dev team t fix humanity ?
956 2014-06-24 14:29:58 <Luke-Jr> SomeoneWeird: I've been over this with him a few times now. skinnkavaj is all about complaining and forcing others to do things as volunteers, but nothing from himself.
957 2014-06-24 14:30:06 YoY has joined
958 2014-06-24 14:30:07 <SomeoneWeird> Luke-Jr: yep.
959 2014-06-24 14:30:10 <skinnkavaj> Luke-Jr: Fix it and I give you 1 BTC
960 2014-06-24 14:30:22 <SomeoneWeird> bribes, great c_c
961 2014-06-24 14:30:32 <jtimon> can you summarize it? that wall of text apparently contained several solutions...
962 2014-06-24 14:30:50 <Luke-Jr> skinnkavaj: 3 hours isn't going to fix it.
963 2014-06-24 14:31:17 <jtimon> well, "solutions", for example, I don't think forcing miners to keep the full chain is a good idea
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966 2014-06-24 14:31:40 <skinnkavaj> jtimon: Why? Then we would have more full nodes so it would help that problem as well
967 2014-06-24 14:31:56 <SomeoneWeird> is it /actually/ a problem?
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972 2014-06-24 14:32:06 <SomeoneWeird> or is it some made up problem again?
973 2014-06-24 14:32:08 <skinnkavaj> SomeoneWeird: Pooled mining or lack of full nodes?
974 2014-06-24 14:32:09 <jtimon> full node != archive node
975 2014-06-24 14:32:18 <skinnkavaj> Are you seriously thinking that pooled mining is not a problem.
976 2014-06-24 14:32:25 <SomeoneWeird> skinnkavaj: whatever you want to pay someone to fix?
977 2014-06-24 14:32:32 <SomeoneWeird> What exactly needs fixing?
978 2014-06-24 14:32:41 <skinnkavaj> The decentralized part of bitcoin
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980 2014-06-24 14:32:54 <SomeoneWeird> So, how do you plan on fixing that?
981 2014-06-24 14:33:04 <skinnkavaj> Right now we could change the text on bitcoin.org from "decentralized" to "controlled by a few pool operators"
982 2014-06-24 14:33:26 <deup> sounds like the democracy that is the us govnt
983 2014-06-24 14:33:30 <SomeoneWeird> skinnkavaj: wow
984 2014-06-24 14:34:13 <deup> though "a few" is much more, over 12: https://blockchain.info/pools
985 2014-06-24 14:34:15 <wumpus> please move this discussion somewhere else
986 2014-06-24 14:34:26 <deup> agreed
987 2014-06-24 14:34:40 <jtimon> skinnkavaj is that the fix you're suggesting? changing bitcoin.org?
988 2014-06-24 14:34:40 <jtimon> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin.org
989 2014-06-24 14:35:10 dabura667_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
990 2014-06-24 14:35:13 <skinnkavaj> How can everyone be in denial this is a problem? Even Luke-Jr thinks it's a problem
991 2014-06-24 14:35:39 dabura667_ has joined
992 2014-06-24 14:35:52 <SomeoneWeird> #bitcoion
993 2014-06-24 14:35:56 <SomeoneWeird> er, #bitcoin
994 2014-06-24 14:35:56 <jtimon> you haven't presented any solution for a problem you've loosely defined
995 2014-06-24 14:35:56 ebfull has quit (Quit: cya)
996 2014-06-24 14:35:57 <Luke-Jr> skinnkavaj: pooled minign is not a problem
997 2014-06-24 14:36:16 <Luke-Jr> SomeoneWeird: +1
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1001 2014-06-24 14:39:19 <hearn> skinnkavaj: the blog post i wrote should go live soon. i kicked jinyoung about it today
1002 2014-06-24 14:39:32 <hearn> skinnkavaj: IMO the next thing to do is build out getblocktemplate more
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1015 2014-06-24 14:56:12 <skinnkavaj> <deup> though "a few" is much more, over 12: https://blockchain.info/pools
1016 2014-06-24 14:56:18 <skinnkavaj> So 12 people in control off Bitcoin
1017 2014-06-24 14:56:32 <skinnkavaj> I bet VISA and Mastercard also have 12 people in control of their servers
1018 2014-06-24 14:56:59 <skinnkavaj> <hearn> "incentivised" with what? bitcoins? so you pay for the download and then the node
1019 2014-06-24 14:57:19 <skinnkavaj> If miners are forced to keep the full blockchain, it will be kinda incentivised to keep running a full node
1020 2014-06-24 14:58:12 <skinnkavaj> Because you have to do it in order to mine.
1021 2014-06-24 14:58:39 <deup> they would never download such a fork.
1022 2014-06-24 14:59:04 <SomeoneWeird> i guess your twitter bio sums it up
1023 2014-06-24 14:59:07 <SomeoneWeird> "troll"
1024 2014-06-24 15:00:21 <Luke-Jr> skinnkavaj: do something useful and review the code I wrote this morning https://github.com/luke-jr/bfgminer/pull/474
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1027 2014-06-24 15:01:57 <skinnkavaj> Luke-Jr: Can you atleast provide a description of the changes in the description field on Git?
1028 2014-06-24 15:02:18 <gmaxwell> skinnkavaj: the descriptions are in the indivigual commits.
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1033 2014-06-24 15:07:54 <wumpus> skinnkavaj: again, please move this discussion somewhere else
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1043 2014-06-24 15:14:40 <isotonic2> hi, i was wondering, is there an OP code in the script that would get the hash of a transaction? A bit like OP_CHECKSIG - but without doing the ecdsa verification?
1044 2014-06-24 15:15:31 <hearn> there is not
1045 2014-06-24 15:19:49 <isotonic2> thats a shame :(
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1047 2014-06-24 15:21:48 <hearn> what do you want it for?
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1052 2014-06-24 15:24:50 <isotonic2> well, if you could - then I think (still devising) you would be able to do a lamp port signature using the scripting facility
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1054 2014-06-24 15:25:30 <isotonic2> in the scriptsig - provide the typical lamport signature based on the hash of the transaction, and validate that it matches up
1055 2014-06-24 15:25:46 <dekalo> hello, how can it be possibile that when I invoke RPC rawsigntransaction on bitcoind 0.9 in RegTetst I got the error Non-canonical signature: too short? Looking at script.cpp (like as hearn wisely advised) seems that the signature scriptSig vchSig.size < 9, but I'm pretty sure that it isn't.
1056 2014-06-24 15:25:58 <dekalo> That's the rawtransaction that I'm trying to sign:
1057 2014-06-24 15:25:58 <dekalo> 0100000001cbdb3850d6fbc16d1623a6ff2e3541fa8d32c644215e29907399031e82e79511000000009100473045022100a45fe1f03de512b0cbeb95e998607732714ca0b27e9772a7c07528773468569a02200695636a7f89b81d8c423d13838e0b8c2d13d5ee0ecd33e028c0fe891612f69847522103331cd1918b2ba042450d869a556d38f5e79ccee0c8285b8597d1e3c7871bfe1d2102b5fec9d03d5ef69cbe2b64b5c952bfb49b453f18abd5d5ac90780614ee02781152aeffffffff0100943577000000001976a91450b88bb3b43
1058 2014-06-24 15:25:58 <dekalo> 45a052d2cc1802fb7131414f6b10688ac00000000
1059 2014-06-24 15:26:07 <dekalo> That's it rawdecoded: http://sprunge.us/FJZI
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1064 2014-06-24 15:30:05 <gmaxwell> isotonic2: you would need more than that, a lot more to make it reasonably efficient.
1065 2014-06-24 15:31:58 <isotonic2> gmaxwell: i was looking at it to see if it was possible, but you could do a winternitz signature (v similar to lam port) to increase its effiency (would never be as great as ecdsa obviously)
1066 2014-06-24 15:32:47 <gmaxwell> isotonic2: that was my "lot more" since fully unrolling winternitz decompression requires a bunch of operations.
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1069 2014-06-24 15:36:31 <isotonic2> gmaxwell: true, but I think the unrolling is competitive with verifying an ecdsa signature, but it's not as attractive as its very difficult to explain how it works, but i think such an op_code to allow the script to retrieve the hash of the transaction would be useful (perhaps for applications that i cannot think off right now)
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1074 2014-06-24 15:41:26 <andytoshi> i think it could create security issues, you could create outputs that could only be spent by signing (a) the output, (b) another output containing a message of the sender's choice
1075 2014-06-24 15:41:32 <andytoshi> "i hereby enslave myself to andytoshi"
1076 2014-06-24 15:43:06 Emzy has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
1077 2014-06-24 15:43:15 <andytoshi> (not that that's really a security issue, since nobody would accept such a coin as payment for anything...but it highlights why it's best to be conservative)
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1079 2014-06-24 15:45:27 <isotonic2> haha, well I was thinking it would be something like OP_TRANHASH and it would work similarly to OP_CHECKSIG, but just returns the hash instead of a boolean (skips checking the ecdsa signature part). An attacker would not be able to predict the hash of a future transaction.
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1084 2014-06-24 15:46:50 <isotonic2> may even give rise to some uses for the numeric op_codes, (that aren't used that much from my understanding?)
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1101 2014-06-24 16:05:17 <gmaxwell> isotonic2: again, you cannot do this with just obtaining the hash.
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1129 2014-06-24 16:26:18 <plaprade> dekalo, when I try to decode your transaction using my library, the signatures seem to be missing the hash type (the very last byte)
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1138 2014-06-24 16:32:35 <michagogo> Hm, did the files that autogen makes change?
1139 2014-06-24 16:32:53 <michagogo> If so, gitignore wasn't updated, I think
1140 2014-06-24 16:35:01 <jtimon> I've been trying sh qa/pull-tester/pull-tester.sh "../../src" but it says
1141 2014-06-24 16:35:01 <jtimon> " can't cd to ../../src" I'm not sure what I have to pu in the parameter of if I have to configure something else
1142 2014-06-24 16:35:08 hearn has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1143 2014-06-24 16:35:16 <jtimon> I'm on debian jessie
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1145 2014-06-24 16:36:13 <dekalo> plaprade, first thank you for helping
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1147 2014-06-24 16:36:36 <dekalo> i've just corrected a little error
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1149 2014-06-24 16:40:15 <dekalo> plaprade: 0100000001721fd74c429424b6748dcad5c12204d42bb691c1434e705f9067c3a225a2cd8d0000000092004830450221008b2daae26728692e1e435d1f715499dd220b4feb943d02db8299b55d66383ee1022032f73e43dbfde776218825ba99acf8fed6653f7b91816e181c7b8dde7a9b68990147522102b5fec9d03d5ef69cbe2b64b5c952bfb49b453f18abd5d5ac90780614ee0278112103331cd1918b2ba042450d869a556d38f5e79ccee0c8285b8597d1e3c7871bfe1d52aeffffffff0100943577000000001976a91
1150 2014-06-24 16:40:15 <dekalo> 47ad6340bf1271c4e22edf3f4c60f0ec582f5361788ac00000000
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1152 2014-06-24 16:41:04 <dekalo> ERROR: Non-canonical signature: too short
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1155 2014-06-24 16:42:26 <dekalo> I'm thinking about that message is not referred to the input signatures in rawtx, but to the signature that bitcoind have just product. It seems adding a key in the middle of the rawtx in response of signrawtransaction of 1 byte 0x00
1156 2014-06-24 16:43:05 <dekalo> "asm" : "0 3045022100f4ac4837ee64fecbac6ed49c40711b6b31f42d041075b97cd8175bbd9bb5bf610220008ed031e214ff562fbbc1256ac60d518b6caa2a59b6d4adcf42dee7062c601401 0 522102b5fec9d03d5ef69cbe2b64b5c952bfb49b453f18abd5d5ac90780614ee0278112103331cd1918b2ba042450d869a556d38f5e79ccee0c8285b8597d1e3c7871bfe1d52ae",
1157 2014-06-24 16:43:05 <dekalo> "hex" : "00483045022100f4ac4837ee64fecbac6ed49c40711b6b31f42d041075b97cd8175bbd9bb5bf610220008ed031e214ff562fbbc1256ac60d518b6caa2a59b6d4adcf42dee7062c6014010047522102b5fec9d03d5ef69cbe2b64b5c952bfb49b453f18abd5d5ac90780614ee0278112103331cd1918b2ba042450d869a556d38f5e79ccee0c8285b8597d1e3c7871bfe1d52ae"
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1161 2014-06-24 16:46:22 <maxconner> Question: is there some cap on the number of connections?
1162 2014-06-24 16:46:40 <xertrov> if you don't have 8333 open, your client won't connect to more than 8
1163 2014-06-24 16:46:45 <maxconner> 2014-06-24 16:41:16 Using at most 873 connections (100000 file descriptors available)
1164 2014-06-24 16:46:51 <maxconner> maxconnections=2000
1165 2014-06-24 16:46:51 <maxconner> but in the conf
1166 2014-06-24 16:47:07 <maxconner> er, those two lines were reversed
1167 2014-06-24 16:47:28 <maxconner> i have it turned up to 2000, and i also increased fd count
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1169 2014-06-24 16:47:33 <maxconner> but it's maxing at 873
1170 2014-06-24 16:47:38 <maxconner> where is that coming from
1171 2014-06-24 16:48:25 <maxconner> grepping for 873 doesn't return anything relevent
1172 2014-06-24 16:48:33 <xertrov> yeah, just tried that myself
1173 2014-06-24 16:48:40 <sipa> it uses max 1024 filedescriptors, because select doesn't support more
1174 2014-06-24 16:48:48 <gmaxwell> maxconner: select cannot be used with more then 1000 file descriptors, it will otherwise corrupt memory.
1175 2014-06-24 16:48:57 <sipa> and then subtracts the number it expects to use for non-connections
1176 2014-06-24 16:49:00 <gmaxwell> You _really_ don't want to have that many connections either, everything will work poorly.
1177 2014-06-24 16:49:09 <maxconner> how many does it expect to use
1178 2014-06-24 16:49:24 <maxconner> and is there a way to increase beyond this number?
1179 2014-06-24 16:49:26 <sipa> ;;calc 1024-873
1180 2014-06-24 16:49:26 <gribble> 151
1181 2014-06-24 16:49:32 <sipa> no
1182 2014-06-24 16:49:42 <maxconner> hm, src/init.cpp: LogPrintf("Using at most connections ( file descriptors available)\n", nMaxConnections, nFD);
1183 2014-06-24 16:49:42 <sipa> run multiple bitcoind's
1184 2014-06-24 16:49:46 <gmaxwell> maxconner: No. Why are you trying?
1185 2014-06-24 16:50:02 <maxconner> I want to allow a lot of people to connect
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1187 2014-06-24 16:50:10 <sipa> then run multiple nodes
1188 2014-06-24 16:50:13 <sipa> way more scalable
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1190 2014-06-24 16:50:24 <maxconner> except for the hd space
1191 2014-06-24 16:50:51 <maxconner> hm, src/init.cpp: nMaxConnections = std::max(std::min(nMaxConnections, (int)(FD_SETSIZE - nBind - MIN_CORE_FILEDESCRIPTORS)), 0);
1192 2014-06-24 16:51:10 <gmaxwell> maxconner: typically publically accessible nodes are not ending up with that many connections.
1193 2014-06-24 16:51:13 <sipa> how many connections do you actually have?
1194 2014-06-24 16:51:28 <maxconner> none atm
1195 2014-06-24 16:51:34 <maxconner> (it's not running)
1196 2014-06-24 16:51:42 <gmaxwell> (e.g. already the default maximum is effectively infinite at the moment)
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1198 2014-06-24 16:51:55 <maxconner> can the code be patched to allow more than that?
1199 2014-06-24 16:52:00 <sipa> no
1200 2014-06-24 16:52:10 <sipa> you'd have to rewrite the networking subsystem pretty much
1201 2014-06-24 16:52:22 <gmaxwell> And again, it wouldn't accomplish anything useful.
1202 2014-06-24 16:52:24 <hearn> you would use a ton of memory and bandwidth that way. how about starting with the max and seeing how it goes?
1203 2014-06-24 16:52:33 <sipa> also, i have a maxconnections=256 very reachable 24/7 up node for months... it has no more than 150 connections
1204 2014-06-24 16:52:37 <maxconner> what is select
1205 2014-06-24 16:52:54 <sipa> maxconner: an operating system call it uses to determine which connections have activity
1206 2014-06-24 16:52:56 <maxconner> you said something like it doesnt support more
1207 2014-06-24 16:53:13 <maxconner> so it needs it to have a connection open?
1208 2014-06-24 16:53:17 <gmaxwell> sipa: yea, thats what I was trying to say. You have better data... I'm surprised to see >125. Cool.
1209 2014-06-24 16:53:27 <sipa> maxconner: ?
1210 2014-06-24 16:53:28 <maxconner> why does it only support 1024 files
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1212 2014-06-24 16:53:36 <sipa> because that is how it works
1213 2014-06-24 16:53:48 <sipa> change your kernel and systems library if you need more
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1215 2014-06-24 16:53:54 <maxconner> aw :(
1216 2014-06-24 16:53:55 <sipa> but you don't need more
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1218 2014-06-24 16:54:24 <sipa> gmaxwell: 139 now
1219 2014-06-24 16:54:32 <maxconner> um
1220 2014-06-24 16:54:38 <maxconner> src/init.cpp:#define MIN_CORE_FILEDESCRIPTORS 0
1221 2014-06-24 16:54:38 <maxconner> src/init.cpp:#define MIN_CORE_FILEDESCRIPTORS 0
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1223 2014-06-24 16:54:59 <sipa> read the line above
1224 2014-06-24 16:55:13 <maxconner> one sec, don't remember how to take grep context
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1226 2014-06-24 16:55:19 <maxconner> brb, ring tfm
1227 2014-06-24 16:55:31 <sipa> but really, this is pointless
1228 2014-06-24 16:55:40 <sipa> you won't even max out with maxconnections=200
1229 2014-06-24 16:56:00 <maxconner> oic
1230 2014-06-24 16:56:11 <maxconner> src/init.cpp-#ifdef WIN32
1231 2014-06-24 16:56:13 <maxconner> src/init.cpp:#define MIN_CORE_FILEDESCRIPTORS 0
1232 2014-06-24 16:56:13 <maxconner> src/init.cpp-#else
1233 2014-06-24 16:56:13 <maxconner> src/init.cpp:#define MIN_CORE_FILEDESCRIPTORS 150
1234 2014-06-24 16:56:13 <maxconner> src/init.cpp-#endif
1235 2014-06-24 16:56:17 <sipa> please stop pasting
1236 2014-06-24 16:56:33 <sipa> we can all read the code
1237 2014-06-24 16:56:34 <maxconner> ok
1238 2014-06-24 16:56:38 <maxconner> thanks anyway
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1250 2014-06-24 17:03:14 <hearn> jgarzik: who at bitpay handles BIP70 stuff?
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1255 2014-06-24 17:09:02 <dekalo> sipa: which could be the reason to obtain an "ERROR: Non-canonical signature: too short" in response to signrawtransaction (in debug.log) ?
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1257 2014-06-24 17:09:43 <sipa> dekalo: your signature is so short it cannot possibly be valid
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1267 2014-06-24 17:12:35 <dekalo> what if in the scriptSig in the rawtransaction that i'm signign the <sig> length is 72 byte?
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1281 2014-06-24 17:16:43 <dekalo> sipa: http://sprunge.us/RNLR if you watch here you can see that the length si canonical
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1287 2014-06-24 17:19:01 <sipa> dekalo: what is the scriptPubKey?
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1295 2014-06-24 17:24:44 <jtimon> so can I run pull-tester.sh without building the win32 version and having it complaining about mingw dependencies? Does anybody run the pull-tester tests locally? I have cloned TheBlueMatt/test-scripts
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1302 2014-06-24 17:29:25 <dekalo> sipa: is a field of tx output to tell how and who will redeem a tx
1303 2014-06-24 17:29:53 <hearn> dekalo: he meant what *is* it. he knows what purpose it serves
1304 2014-06-24 17:30:01 <hearn> dekalo: sipa is a bitcoin developer for years now :)
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1306 2014-06-24 17:30:21 <dekalo> ehe I thought it was a rhetorical question
1307 2014-06-24 17:31:14 <dekalo> sipa: a914673044885ff5cc83cc318d42f4dfb77d285d6f6d87
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1370 2014-06-24 18:35:27 <sipa> dekalo: that looks like a txid, not a script :)
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1378 2014-06-24 18:39:04 <dekalo> sipa: a9 (OP_HASH160) 14 (PUSH 20 BYTE) 673044885ff5cc83cc318d42f4dfb77d285d6f6d 87 (OP_EQUAL)
1379 2014-06-24 18:39:45 <dekalo> sipa: is not that a scriptPubKey containing the hash of this redeemScript? -> 522102b5fec9d03d5ef69cbe2b64b5c952bfb49b453f18abd5d5ac90780614ee0278112103331cd1918b2ba042450d869a556d38f5e79ccee0c8285b8597d1e3c7871bfe1d52ae
1380 2014-06-24 18:40:00 <sipa> you're not providing the redeemscript in the scriptsig
1381 2014-06-24 18:40:04 <sipa> oh wait
1382 2014-06-24 18:40:08 <sipa> sorry, you are!
1383 2014-06-24 18:41:17 <sipa> it's a 2-of-2 multisig, but you only provide 1 signature
1384 2014-06-24 18:41:31 <sipa> so it's considering the extra 0 pushed in front as the second signature
1385 2014-06-24 18:41:35 <sipa> which fails, as it's way too short
1386 2014-06-24 18:42:33 <dekalo> sipa: is partial signed, i would to put the last sig and send. Generally I use to import raw trasaction partial signed, so RPC signrawtransaction add the last one sign, and so RPC sendrawtransaction will send to network
1387 2014-06-24 18:42:56 <sipa> yes?
1388 2014-06-24 18:43:01 <dekalo> for sure
1389 2014-06-24 18:43:05 <sipa> as long as it's not fully signed, it's invalid
1390 2014-06-24 18:43:09 <sipa> and you can't broadcast it
1391 2014-06-24 18:43:23 <dekalo> the problem is not broadcasting, is putting the last sign with bitcoind
1392 2014-06-24 18:43:56 <dekalo> There are examples on bitcoin developers site to sign in this way on offline-wallets
1393 2014-06-24 18:43:57 <sipa> it gives that error when using signrawtransaction? that's strange
1394 2014-06-24 18:44:07 <dekalo> that's the strange behavior !
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1396 2014-06-24 18:44:23 <sipa> sorry, no idea in that case
1397 2014-06-24 18:44:25 <dekalo> non-canonical signature: too short
1398 2014-06-24 18:44:34 <dekalo> well
1399 2014-06-24 18:44:54 Emzy has joined
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1401 2014-06-24 18:45:00 <dekalo> should be that bitcoind has some problems with bitcoinJ signature?
1402 2014-06-24 18:45:26 <sipa> maybe it uses a different format for partially signed? (just guessing, i don't know)
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1405 2014-06-24 18:46:23 <dekalo> partial signing is equal to a normal signign in bitcoinj, it only take the hash of certain fields and sign it with a privatekey
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1408 2014-06-24 18:46:53 <dekalo> I can manually create the scriptSig putting the right opcodes
1409 2014-06-24 18:47:52 <jtimon> in some places we use std namespace and in others we use std:: explicitly
1410 2014-06-24 18:47:52 <jtimon> would anyone complain if I move everything to use always std:: ?
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1413 2014-06-24 18:49:04 <sipa> jtimon: if you find any 'using namespace' in .h files: definitely
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1415 2014-06-24 18:49:46 <jtimon> not in cpp files?
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1417 2014-06-24 18:50:47 <sipa> in cpp it's more like a per-file decision... i don't care about changing it, but change-the-world patches tend to be disliked (review overhead, cause merge conflicts for pretty much everything, and don't really much benefit)
1418 2014-06-24 18:51:15 WKNiGHT- is now known as WKNiGHT
1419 2014-06-24 18:53:51 <jtimon> I see, so in cpp files it's not going to be welcomed either, there's no using namespace std in .h files anymore
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1421 2014-06-24 18:54:53 <sipa> i generally always use fully qualified names in new code (except when there's surrounding code with style to match) though
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1423 2014-06-24 18:56:01 <jtimon> yeah, although namespaces are good and let's use more of those, explicit it's better than implicit
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1425 2014-06-24 18:57:02 <sipa> agree
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1427 2014-06-24 18:57:13 <jtimon> what's the criterion to define stuff in .h files instead of .cpp files (my teachers told me to only declare things in .h files)
1428 2014-06-24 18:57:20 <jtimon> ?
1429 2014-06-24 18:57:33 <sipa> if it needs to be inlined, or is templated, it needs to be in a .h file
1430 2014-06-24 18:57:57 <sipa> sometimes it's just laziness, though we've moved most of that out to .cpp files by now
1431 2014-06-24 18:58:04 <jtimon> yep, templates need to be in .h
1432 2014-06-24 18:58:55 <jtimon> so nobody will complain when I move definitions to cpp, and someone may complain if I define a new method inline for no reason, good
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1434 2014-06-24 18:59:22 <sipa> modern c++ compilers inline a lot when they can automatically
1435 2014-06-24 18:59:37 <sipa> it's more that if it's performance critical, you'll likely define it in a .h to give the compiler a chance
1436 2014-06-24 18:59:55 <sipa> unless we can start using -flto at some point (which allows cross-module inlining), there's no way around that
1437 2014-06-24 19:00:28 <sipa> i've been wanting to move some of the uint256.h stuff to a .cpp file
1438 2014-06-24 19:00:59 <sipa> the division/shift/multipy code and compact format conversions are definitely sizable enough to not be in .h
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1440 2014-06-24 19:01:27 <sipa> but it requires some magic to do that for templated code
1441 2014-06-24 19:01:44 <sipa> (it's possible because we know all instantiations ahead of time)
1442 2014-06-24 19:02:17 <jtimon> I didn't know having everything on .h was potentially better for the compiler, I actually thought it was worse becase includes were kind of macros
1443 2014-06-24 19:02:49 <tm4> includes are textually included in the compiled file.
1444 2014-06-24 19:02:58 <sipa> well if you define a function in a .cpp file, that function *only* exists in the resulting .o file
1445 2014-06-24 19:03:06 <sipa> which means that it can't be inlined into other functions
1446 2014-06-24 19:03:24 <tm4> without lto, yes
1447 2014-06-24 19:03:28 <sipa> indeed, without lto
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1451 2014-06-24 19:04:04 <Arnavion> Is there a reason you don't use it already?
1452 2014-06-24 19:04:06 <Arnavion> LTO, I mean
1453 2014-06-24 19:04:16 <sipa> support for old compilers
1454 2014-06-24 19:04:26 <tm4> LTO potentially increases compile time
1455 2014-06-24 19:04:31 <tm4> also it's a bit new still IMHO
1456 2014-06-24 19:04:34 <jtimon> oh, I see, you may not want a function to call to another .o?
1457 2014-06-24 19:04:56 <sipa> jtimon: that's what inlining is... embedding the code you're calling at the call site
1458 2014-06-24 19:05:05 <sipa> so you don't need to jump around, save stack frames, ...
1459 2014-06-24 19:05:23 <Arnavion> jtimon: Without LTO, the resulting binary will have multiple copies of the same function because each copy came from a different object file
1460 2014-06-24 19:05:29 <sipa> especially with tiny functions that are just wrappers for other functions, you want that in performance critical call
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1462 2014-06-24 19:05:37 <Arnavion> which is the case when the function was defined in a header included by multiple .cpp files
1463 2014-06-24 19:05:38 <jtimon> yep, but you can always do that explicitly with inline, no?
1464 2014-06-24 19:05:47 <sipa> jtimon: only within the same module
1465 2014-06-24 19:06:06 <jtimon> module meaning server, core, etc
1466 2014-06-24 19:06:10 <sipa> and the 'inline' keyword has little effect these days... the compiler often knows better than you what is good to inline
1467 2014-06-24 19:06:15 <sipa> module = .o file
1468 2014-06-24 19:06:25 <Arnavion> Module in the C++ compiler sense
1469 2014-06-24 19:06:45 <jtimon> .o, I see
1470 2014-06-24 19:07:14 <Arnavion> The compiler compiles each .cpp into a .o. The linker combines multiple .o's into a single binary.
1471 2014-06-24 19:07:36 <Arnavion> LTO means that the linker will look for identical functions across .o's while linking and only output one function in the resulting binary
1472 2014-06-24 19:07:56 <sipa> Arnavion: much more than that
1473 2014-06-24 19:08:03 <Arnavion> Yes, I'm just giving a simplification
1474 2014-06-24 19:08:06 <sipa> ok
1475 2014-06-24 19:08:11 <sipa> but yes, that's one of the effects
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1477 2014-06-24 19:08:52 <sipa> LTO really means the .o files just contain half-compiled code instead of actual machine code, and that the final compilation step is done for the entire binary together, instead of per module
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1479 2014-06-24 19:09:15 <sipa> meaning the result is as if everything was in a single module
1480 2014-06-24 19:09:27 <Arnavion> Indeed
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1482 2014-06-24 19:09:40 <sipa> which is awesome, but experimental
1483 2014-06-24 19:09:44 <Arnavion> which is why the poor man's LTO technique is to cat all your files into one big file and compile that
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1485 2014-06-24 19:10:41 <jtimon> my c++ teachers were quite simplistic, as you can see in my pre-python cpp coding style here: https://github.com/jtimon/preann (I actually learned make on my own there, with previous teachers we delegated that task to dev-cpp or an oldest version of borlandc)
1486 2014-06-24 19:11:12 <sipa> i only learnt c++ by working on the bitcoin codebase :)
1487 2014-06-24 19:11:35 <sipa> well, s/by/because of/
1488 2014-06-24 19:11:37 <jtimon> no definitions besides templates in cpp, period
1489 2014-06-24 19:11:49 <sipa> in .h you mean :)
1490 2014-06-24 19:12:03 <jtimon> hehe, yep
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1492 2014-06-24 19:13:21 <jtimon> well, for some it was also no declarations in cpp, which was ridiculous and I don't obey in that project
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1496 2014-06-24 19:14:27 <jtimon> I also love polymorphism which I don't think have many friends around bitcoin...
1497 2014-06-24 19:16:17 <sipa> as long as it satisfies the liskoz substitution principle :)
1498 2014-06-24 19:16:34 <sipa> liskov
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1512 2014-06-24 19:28:39 <jtimon> well, that's the idea, whenever you don't satisfy it is a clear sign of ugliness
1513 2014-06-24 19:29:28 <jtimon> for example, S is a sublcass of C, both have a(), but only C has b()...
1514 2014-06-24 19:30:03 <sipa> well, that obviously violates liskov
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1516 2014-06-24 19:30:40 <jtimon> whatever call (*C)myPointer->b() should be deprecated
1517 2014-06-24 19:30:44 <sipa> but it can be in a non-technical sense too.. that it's just more convenient in term of code reuse to make something a subclass of something else, but it is not really "x is a more specific version of y"
1518 2014-06-24 19:31:07 <sipa> which often mean you should move things to a common base functionality class instead, and have two extensions of it
1519 2014-06-24 19:31:10 <sipa> or something else
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1524 2014-06-24 19:34:25 <jtimon> yes, specialization can be often replaced with composition
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1534 2014-06-24 19:41:55 <andytoshi> is the total work of a chain sum(block work), where block work is 2^256/(target + 1) ? it seems wrong to be adding those quantities, adding the logarithms would make more sense..
1535 2014-06-24 19:42:03 <justanotheruser> Can I get a source on petertodd breaking coinbases clients consensus?
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1542 2014-06-24 19:44:12 <sipa> andytoshi: work = the expected number of hashes to obtain the chain; the formula is correct
1543 2014-06-24 19:45:06 <andytoshi> sipa: oh, yeah, that does make sense, thanks
1544 2014-06-24 19:45:24 <sipa> bitcoind logs the 2log of the total chainwork
1545 2014-06-24 19:45:34 <sipa> but that's just for human consumption
1546 2014-06-24 19:46:00 <andytoshi> i was thinking, what are the chances that you get the whole blockchain in one shot, which would mean multiplying the works...but that is wrong
1547 2014-06-24 19:46:18 <sipa> indeed; it wasn't done in one shot :)
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1549 2014-06-24 19:48:35 <roasbeef> justanotheruser: looking for this? https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=260595.0
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1571 2014-06-24 20:05:45 <michagogo> 18:03:24 <hearn> "we need at least 10 people to make this fun, tickets cost $20, please attach your pledges to your reply to this email" kind of thing <-- The problem, AIUI, is that if 11 people pledge, $20 go to fees
1572 2014-06-24 20:05:45 <michagogo> 19:50:31 <phantomcircuit> wumpus, that's cheating, you gotta checkout upstream/master, autogen.sh, configure, make clean, make, then run the tests :P <-- Shouldn't you make clean before you configure?
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1574 2014-06-24 20:07:08 <jtimon> yeah, I'm running rpc-tests/listtransactions.py...
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1576 2014-06-24 20:07:41 <jtimon> michagogo yeah I think clean is first-or-nothing ;)
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1580 2014-06-24 20:10:13 <MaxSan> (20:59:23) You transmitted a malformed data message.
1581 2014-06-24 20:10:13 <MaxSan> (20:59:24) You transmitted a malformed data message.
1582 2014-06-24 20:10:13 <MaxSan> (20:59:24) You transmitted a malformed data message.
1583 2014-06-24 20:10:16 <MaxSan> still cant fix these OTR issues
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1590 2014-06-24 20:15:08 <MaxSan> Sorry wrong tab
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1601 2014-06-24 20:24:23 <skinnkavaj> <wumpus> skinnkavaj: again, please move this discussion somewhere else
1602 2014-06-24 20:24:31 <skinnkavaj> Why is mining centralization not allowed to be discussed here? It seems like everyone outside of this channel tend to agree it's a problem.
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1624 2014-06-24 20:41:41 <gwillen> skinnkavaj: this channel is for discussion of the development of bitcoin clients. It's not a general-purpose bitcoin chat channel.
1625 2014-06-24 20:42:09 <gwillen> skinnkavaj: You want #bitcoin or #bitcoin-mining if you want to chat about bitcoin mining, centralization, or anything that is not the development of bitcoin core or bitcoin client software.
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1627 2014-06-24 20:42:48 <gwillen> (if you had a specific proposal for changing the bitcoin client in a practical way to mitigate the centralization problem, and you had code or proposed code, this would be a good place to discuss _that_.)
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1655 2014-06-24 21:15:45 <warren> cfields: [warren@fish bitcoin]$ ./autogen.sh
1656 2014-06-24 21:15:45 <warren> which: no glibtoolize in (/home/warren/.rbenv/bin:/home/warren/.rbenv/shims:/home/warren/.rbenv/bin:/usr/lib64/qt-3.3/bin:/usr/lib64/ccache:/usr/libexec/lightdm:/usr/local/bin:/usr/bin:/bin:/usr/local/sbin:/usr/sbin:/home/warren/.local/bin:/home/warren/bin)
1657 2014-06-24 21:16:08 <warren> cfields: Fedora has no binary named that although it does have libtoolize, is that the same thing?
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1660 2014-06-24 21:17:12 <warren> seems so
1661 2014-06-24 21:17:21 <cfields> warren: glibtoolize is only needed on osx, that should be harmless...
1662 2014-06-24 21:17:38 <cfields> but it should also not be seen. didn't i pipe that to /dev/null ?
1663 2014-06-24 21:17:51 <warren> no
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1665 2014-06-24 21:18:27 <cfields> mmm. will fix
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1668 2014-06-24 21:19:15 <warren> thanks
1669 2014-06-24 21:19:35 <cfields> wait
1670 2014-06-24 21:19:58 <cfields> my shell/coreutils (not sure if that's a built-in or not) doesn't show an error
1671 2014-06-24 21:20:25 <cfields> could you try "which glibtoolize 2>/dev/null" and be sure that shuts it up?
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1676 2014-06-24 21:22:56 <warren> yep
1677 2014-06-24 21:23:09 <cfields> ok, thanks
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1735 2014-06-24 22:50:58 <sipa> main.cpp:2572:5: warning: assuming signed overflow does not occur when assuming that (X - c) > X is always false
1736 2014-06-24 22:51:03 <sipa> i have never seen that warning
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1738 2014-06-24 22:51:48 <sipa> very strange, as the source line is just "if (height > nHeight)"
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1746 2014-06-24 22:59:57 <cfields> sipa: which branch?
1747 2014-06-24 23:00:15 <sipa> cfields: not even committed :)
1748 2014-06-24 23:00:20 <cfields> oh, heh
1749 2014-06-24 23:01:04 <sipa> my 'skiplist' branch on github now
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1754 2014-06-24 23:02:51 <cfields> mm, weird
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1759 2014-06-24 23:05:13 <gmaxwell> sipa: skiplist branch? trying to optimize header storage?
1760 2014-06-24 23:06:03 <sipa> gmaxwell: trying to make the query "is X an ancestor of Y" efficient, without needing a full height index for every branch
1761 2014-06-24 23:06:24 <gmaxwell> ah. interesting!
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1767 2014-06-24 23:12:39 <maaku> the two can certainly be done in parallel, with two commitments
1768 2014-06-24 23:13:27 <sipa> maaku: this is just local implementation, nothing commitment :)
1769 2014-06-24 23:13:39 <sipa> though it may be useful there too of course
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