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 148 2014-07-16 03:07:29 <earlz> What can you use to spend a non-standard input, such as a puzzle?
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 153 2014-07-16 03:13:25 <poutine> earlz, what?
 154 2014-07-16 03:14:30 <shesek> earlz, iirc, eligius accepts non-standard transactions
 155 2014-07-16 03:14:52 <shesek> you can use http://eligius.st/~wizkid057/newstats/pushtxn.php to get the transaction mined
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 160 2014-07-16 03:15:28 <jrick> pretty sure he means to spend it, to make and send a tx that uses it as one of of the txin
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 162 2014-07-16 03:16:17 <dgenr8> sipa: here?
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 166 2014-07-16 03:17:59 <dgenr8> sipa: you'll like this one
 167 2014-07-16 03:18:09 <earlz> shesek: thanks
 168 2014-07-16 03:18:56 <earlz> I assume I'd have to construct the transaction myself using one of the serivces for that
 169 2014-07-16 03:19:15 <poutine> I construct my raw nonstandard transactions with bitcoinjs-lib, but there's a number of ways
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 171 2014-07-16 03:20:05 <jrick> earlz: there are libraries you can use to create the script
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 173 2014-07-16 03:20:18 <earlz> yea, I've been trying to figure out a good way to go about doing that. For that service to get it mined, I assume there is a significant delay due to the mining pool being smaller?
 174 2014-07-16 03:20:29 <shesek> though, if he's doing something that's really non-standard, it might be easier doing that by hand
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 176 2014-07-16 03:20:36 <poutine> earlz, look at the block performance at eligius.st
 177 2014-07-16 03:20:39 <earlz> I'm still wrapping my head around all that heh
 178 2014-07-16 03:20:41 <jrick> earlz: e.g. http://godoc.org/github.com/conformal/btcscript#ScriptBuilder
 179 2014-07-16 03:20:44 <poutine> I've had it take up to 6 hours for my stuff to get picked up
 180 2014-07-16 03:20:57 <earlz> 6 hours isn't bad. I was expected days
 181 2014-07-16 03:21:05 <shesek> earlz, they have about 6% of the hashpower
 182 2014-07-16 03:21:31 <poutine> https://blockchain.info/tx/219b5815886af9c9ff74fdbe8146731534b0c1b1dc23bfd3fab81745433bbc3f?show_adv=true
 183 2014-07-16 03:21:33 AndersAA has joined
 184 2014-07-16 03:21:38 <earlz> Also, on the hardfork wish list, there is this "Scripts should be fully enabled after a careful audit." does that mean treat all transactions as standard and relayable that follow signature and size limits?
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 186 2014-07-16 03:21:58 <shesek> earlz, so it should take about 16 blocks on average, or about 2.5 hours
 187 2014-07-16 03:22:19 <shesek> (on average, yes? the variance should be quite large)
 188 2014-07-16 03:22:31 justanotheruser has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
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 190 2014-07-16 03:22:33 <earlz> yea, that's not bad at all. I assume standard transaction fees apply? Or does it allow free ones?
 191 2014-07-16 03:23:31 <poutine> no, and if you submit with 0 fee, don't expect it to ever get mined
 192 2014-07-16 03:24:04 <earlz> I expected that heh
 193 2014-07-16 03:24:24 Hunger- has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 194 2014-07-16 03:24:30 <earlz> So, for my other question, what does "Scripts should be fully enabled after a careful audit." mean?
 195 2014-07-16 03:24:43 <earlz> on the bitcoin wiki's hardfork wishlist
 196 2014-07-16 03:25:07 <shesek> poutine, I'm not so sure about that... if you're using aged outputs as your inputs and your output are large enough, it might get mined even if its non-standard
 197 2014-07-16 03:25:34 <shesek> I'm not sure how eligius behaves exactly, but it might allow that
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 200 2014-07-16 03:26:46 <poutine> shesek, I've had transactions sit in limbo for months, I can't speak on age of output or anything like that, but I do believe they post their fee policy
 201 2014-07-16 03:27:06 <poutine> in any event venturing a bit past dev talk so I'll stop
 202 2014-07-16 03:27:10 <shesek> non-standard ones?
 203 2014-07-16 03:27:27 <shesek> I've had plenty of standard ones mined without fees
 204 2014-07-16 03:27:34 <poutine> yes non-standard
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 206 2014-07-16 03:28:39 <earlz> what is the big fear around allowing all transactions to be relayed as standard? I'd think that if an exploit existed, it'd have been done by now
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 218 2014-07-16 03:41:40 <earlz> hmmm.. only possible exploit I see that could happen is denial of service on nodes with a malicious non-standard tx... but eh, I'm not seeing how that'd happen in relay code without happening when parsing the block as well
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 221 2014-07-16 03:46:24 <gmaxwell> earlz: relaying all transactions would agressively break forwards compatibility when people started putting random garbage in places that are reserved for forward compatibility.
 222 2014-07-16 03:46:44 <gmaxwell> Also a DOS attack which is only available to miners is far less of a concern.
 223 2014-07-16 03:47:08 Hunger- has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
 224 2014-07-16 03:47:16 <Luke-Jr> [03:16:58] <earlz> Also, on the hardfork wish list, there is this "Scripts should be fully enabled after a careful audit." does that mean treat all transactions as standard and relayable that follow signature and size limits? <-- this refers to opcodes that are missing in Bitcoin Script today
 225 2014-07-16 03:47:26 <earlz> ah I see
 226 2014-07-16 03:47:47 <gmaxwell> also the idea that DOS attacks are prevented by the consumption of fees does not work if the transaction will never be mined... so if relay is too disjoint with mining thats bad too.
 227 2014-07-16 03:47:49 <earlz> I was also wondering why so many trivial sounding opcodes were disabled
 228 2014-07-16 03:47:50 <Luke-Jr> particularly ones that Satoshi removed in like 0.3.2
 229 2014-07-16 03:48:24 <gmaxwell> earlz: because they were remotely exploitable vulnerabilties.
 230 2014-07-16 03:48:34 wallet42 has quit (Client Quit)
 231 2014-07-16 03:48:43 <gmaxwell> (in fact, I now thing that every single disabled one was actually explotable, though I'd have to go check carefully to be sure)
 232 2014-07-16 03:49:04 <gmaxwell> (mostly thanks to out of control memory usage possible due to the bignums)
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 234 2014-07-16 03:49:13 <earlz> things like multiplication even? idk maybe I just haven't read enough into it so see the exploits of those opcodes
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 237 2014-07-16 03:49:40 <gmaxwell> earlz: yea, see this is why woring on this stuff is dangerous.
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 240 2014-07-16 03:50:19 <earlz> I like that P2SH is finally standard in master :)
 241 2014-07-16 03:51:18 <gmaxwell> it's been standard since it was introduced.
 242 2014-07-16 03:51:24 <earlz> Is there any plans to ever allow things like puzzles to be relayed as standard, or is that just considered as not belonging on the network?
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 244 2014-07-16 03:51:43 <earlz> Well, bigger than 520 bytes(?) or whatever
 245 2014-07-16 03:51:50 <gmaxwell> PUSH_520_bytes OP_DUP OP_MUL OP_DUP OP_MUL [OP_DUP OP_MUL]*95 ... now every node is using 17867063951360 exobytes of ram.
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 247 2014-07-16 03:52:24 <gmaxwell> earlz: a P2SH redeem script cannot be >520 bytes (no push can be)
 248 2014-07-16 03:52:37 <earlz> yea I see your point. I imagine you'd have to construct things in some VM-ish thing with strict resource cotnrols or something
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 250 2014-07-16 03:52:59 <gmaxwell> earlz: well thats what script already is, but the bignums used in the now disabled opcodes violated that.
 251 2014-07-16 03:53:00 <andytoshi> ...and they'd have to be exactly the same resource controls for every node ever
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 253 2014-07-16 03:53:44 <earlz> yea tough to maintain consensus across so many different platforms, not to mention the possibility of people using non-reference clients
 254 2014-07-16 03:54:18 cronus has quit (Quit: cronus)
 255 2014-07-16 03:54:19 <earlz> So, how do you redeem a p2sh multisig, with say 5 signatures required?
 256 2014-07-16 03:54:40 <gmaxwell> the limit is on the redeemscript not on the signatures.
 257 2014-07-16 03:54:41 <shesek> earlz, this is, in fact, a standard transaction
 258 2014-07-16 03:55:24 <earlz> ah forgot about redeem/signatures being separate. sorry
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 260 2014-07-16 03:57:14 <earlz> So, maybe I'm not understanding this then ugh
 261 2014-07-16 03:57:38 <earlz> what is an "input script" anyway in this case?
 262 2014-07-16 03:58:46 <poutine> an input script prepended to a referenced tx's output script has to equal OP_TRUE for the tx to be valid
 263 2014-07-16 03:59:41 <earlz> So, in a standard transaction what would the input script be? I thought it'd be a signature, but that doesn't appear to be true
 264 2014-07-16 03:59:51 <earlz> well wait, it'd be the public key maybe?
 265 2014-07-16 04:01:09 TheSeven has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
 266 2014-07-16 04:01:18 <sipa> dgenr8: yes?
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 268 2014-07-16 04:02:14 <earlz> are there any good resources that explain all this? The wiki explains some of the technical details, but is a bit lacking as to how it all ties together and how you'd construct transactions on your own
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 270 2014-07-16 04:03:27 <sipa> earlz: the output script is the condition you must satisfy to spend that output
 271 2014-07-16 04:03:51 <sipa> earlz: the input script contains the data to feed to an output script to make it evaluate to true
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 273 2014-07-16 04:04:58 <earlz> so in a standard transaction, the input would be the public key of the spender, correct? But then what goes into the input for multisig is what I'm having trouble with
 274 2014-07-16 04:05:35 bbrian has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
 275 2014-07-16 04:06:21 <sipa> in a standard transaction, the hash of the public key goes in the output (requiring a pubkey and a signature, the signature validnfor that pubkey, and the hash of the pubkey equal to that know value), the input contains the actual full public key andnsignature
 276 2014-07-16 04:06:54 <shesek> earlz, if its P2SH, then its `OP_0 {signatures...} {multisigScript}`
 277 2014-07-16 04:07:11 <shesek> multisigScript being `m {pubkeys...} n OP_CHECKMULTISIG`
 278 2014-07-16 04:07:39 <poutine> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/master/src/script.cpp#L303-969 <- Good reading for how scripts work
 279 2014-07-16 04:07:59 <earlz> need a Script For Dummies book lol
 280 2014-07-16 04:08:48 <earlz> If inputscripts are limited to 520 bytes, I'm not seeing how you can provide everything to spend it
 281 2014-07-16 04:08:56 <earlz> for a larger multisig
 282 2014-07-16 04:09:18 <sipa> individual data elements are limited to 520 bytes
 283 2014-07-16 04:09:25 <sipa> not the entire script
 284 2014-07-16 04:10:26 <shesek> the redeemScript becomes an individual data element when you're using p2sh, so that is limited to 520 bytes
 285 2014-07-16 04:10:50 <shesek> but the signatures aren't included in that and are pushed as separate elements
 286 2014-07-16 04:10:52 <sipa> but the redeemscript only contains the public keys
 287 2014-07-16 04:11:04 <earlz> so confusing ugh
 288 2014-07-16 04:11:17 <sipa> which are 34 bytes per push with compressed pubkeys
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 516 2014-07-16 09:30:27 <jcorgan> wumpus: iwilcox: both getrawtransactino and searchrawtransactions are working with headersfirst+txindex+addrindex, except the config options are not being read correctly
 517 2014-07-16 09:31:20 <iwilcox> jcorgan: Cool, well, get some sleep :)
 518 2014-07-16 09:31:56 <jcorgan> as i mentioned in #bitcoin, i had to turn on fAddrIndex and fTxIndex in main.cpp as defaulting to true, as it is ignoring the config file txindex=1 or cli -txindex (same for addrindex)
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 520 2014-07-16 09:32:05 <iwilcox> My node is still c r a w l i n g through bootstrap.dat anyway so it'll probably be a day before I can try your workaround.
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 522 2014-07-16 09:32:52 <shesek> was addrindex merged eventually? I had the impression it was abandoned in favor of watchonly
 523 2014-07-16 09:33:14 <iwilcox> Not merged, but I wouldn't try h-f unless I could keep addrindex
 524 2014-07-16 09:33:25 <jcorgan> no, it was (and may never be) merged, but I've maintained the patch fresh against current master and am testing headersfirst with it
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 526 2014-07-16 09:33:31 <jcorgan> it wasn't
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 528 2014-07-16 09:34:34 <shesek> I see. thanks for the clarification
 529 2014-07-16 09:34:39 <wumpus> addrindex will likely never be merged, but jcorgan is maintaining it anyway
 530 2014-07-16 09:34:50 <jcorgan> :)
 531 2014-07-16 09:35:12 <wumpus> at some point bitcoind should be modular enough that it can just be plugged in...
 532 2014-07-16 09:36:06 <jcorgan> perhaps one day.  i find it very useful for some work i'm doing, maintaining the patch privately isn't much work.
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 534 2014-07-16 09:37:07 <jcorgan> wumpus, i'll test headersfirst without the addrindex patch to see if it still has issues with txindex=1 in the config file
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 536 2014-07-16 09:37:46 <wumpus> jcorgan: nah, if it's just an argument parsing problem it shouldn't be too hard to figure out why it's going wrong
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 701 2014-07-16 13:08:43 <jrick> hearn: I was looking for other examples of serializing a dynamic_bitset but didn't see any. Do you think the bip should specify the order in that case? (so is a single true 0x01 or 0x80?)
 702 2014-07-16 13:09:59 <jrick> also, ordering with > 8 elements
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 705 2014-07-16 13:16:21 <hearn> yes, probably. good point. the protocol is a weird mix of different endiannesses
 706 2014-07-16 13:16:31 <hearn> so it's not really obvious
 707 2014-07-16 13:16:36 <hearn> thanks for the review jrick
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 716 2014-07-16 13:25:40 <jrick> sure np. can't say I'm thrilled from the proposed feature (because of the authentication issues) but if it does go in, hopefully the code and bip both make sense
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 718 2014-07-16 13:27:45 <maaku> jrick: absolutely
 719 2014-07-16 13:27:49 <maaku> also see my hashtree branch
 720 2014-07-16 13:28:02 <maaku> which has a dynamic_bitset serializer for the utxo stuff
 721 2014-07-16 13:28:18 <maaku> jrick: what's the context for what you are doing?
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 723 2014-07-16 13:29:05 <jrick> gmaxwell had asked us (btcd guys) for input on the getutxos stuff
 724 2014-07-16 13:29:29 <maaku> https://github.com/maaku/bitcoin/blob/hashmap/src/hash_map.h#L143
 725 2014-07-16 13:30:21 <maaku> a single true should be 0x01 fwiw
 726 2014-07-16 13:30:44 <jtimon> maybe some input from libbitcoin/darkwallet would be useful too
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 732 2014-07-16 13:31:57 <maaku> iirc i had to do some bit-order swaps though in order to get things "right" when working with a dynamic_bitset
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 742 2014-07-16 13:38:42 <maaku> for future additions, check_mempool should probably be a flags field with bits 2-8 reserved (write zero, ignore on read)
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 744 2014-07-16 13:40:05 <maaku> maybe the mempool height sentinal value should be zero?
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 766 2014-07-16 14:19:47 <hearn> wumpus: what's the plan with the pull tester?
 767 2014-07-16 14:20:17 <wumpus> hearn: it's going to be replaced with Travis
 768 2014-07-16 14:20:32 <hearn> presumably the tests it run will remain the same however?
 769 2014-07-16 14:20:37 <wumpus> yes
 770 2014-07-16 14:20:40 <hearn> ok
 771 2014-07-16 14:20:54 <hearn> so it's just the "poll for changes/rebuild/rerun the tests" part that'd be replaced
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 775 2014-07-16 14:21:35 <wumpus> although it will do so with the same build environment as for gitian
 776 2014-07-16 14:21:42 <wumpus> yes
 777 2014-07-16 14:22:28 <wumpus> unless you think it makes sense to run other tests, I'm sure that can be changed too, but the tests themselves are pretty good (apart from a timeout issue here and there)
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 781 2014-07-16 14:24:59 <wumpus> also,AFAIK travis can run tests on OSX, so it adds one more environment
 782 2014-07-16 14:25:09 <sipa> ooh nice
 783 2014-07-16 14:25:53 <hearn> no that sounds good. i'll probably add getutxo tests to the pull tester. i'm not sure how to upgrade it to the latest bitcoinj code though
 784 2014-07-16 14:25:59 <hearn> i actually know very little about how that works
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 786 2014-07-16 14:27:52 <sipa> i've been using the jar that BlueMatt put on a site, but i would sort of like to know how to build it myself :)
 787 2014-07-16 14:28:37 <BlueMatt> hearn: does it not build these days?
 788 2014-07-16 14:29:13 <BlueMatt> sipa: it should be just 1. import bitcoinj into your favorite java dev environment 2. click buil runnable jar 3. select BitcoindComparisonTool 4. profit
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 791 2014-07-16 14:29:30 <BlueMatt> i'm not sure that i ever wrote a mvn script for it
 792 2014-07-16 14:29:38 <BlueMatt> but you could probably do that easily too by changing the default class
 793 2014-07-16 14:29:44 <hearn> BlueMatt: what i mean is, i don't know where it runs or how to upgrade it etc. the bitcoinj parts i understand
 794 2014-07-16 14:29:51 <sipa> BlueMatt: i haven't opened a java dev environment in 10 years
 795 2014-07-16 14:30:08 akstunt600 has joined
 796 2014-07-16 14:30:20 <BlueMatt> hearn: didnt it get thrown in the bitcoinj repo at some point?
 797 2014-07-16 14:30:25 ak_ has joined
 798 2014-07-16 14:30:26 <BlueMatt> or did it end up in bitcoind's repo?
 799 2014-07-16 14:30:31 <hearn> BlueMatt: the tool is there, sure.
 800 2014-07-16 14:30:41 <hearn> BlueMatt: but obviously it runs somewhere, someone has access to it, there are scripts involved etc
 801 2014-07-16 14:30:56 <BlueMatt> hearn: its just a single main class to run
 802 2014-07-16 14:30:59 <sipa> sure, it runs on our devserver, the jar can be updated
 803 2014-07-16 14:31:12 <hearn> ok, you have access to it sipa?
 804 2014-07-16 14:31:19 <BlueMatt> hearn: if you go in intellij or whatever and tell it to run BitcoindComparisonTool as the main class you can get the jar
 805 2014-07-16 14:31:19 <gmaxwell> so does BlueMatt
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 807 2014-07-16 14:31:22 <sipa> yes
 808 2014-07-16 14:31:24 <sipa> indeed
 809 2014-07-16 14:31:27 <BlueMatt> then ./configure --with-comparison-tool=path/to/jar
 810 2014-07-16 14:31:30 <BlueMatt> and make check
 811 2014-07-16 14:31:43 <hearn> right but BlueMatt has been busy with university and so on. good to know i can bug sipa to upgrade it :)
 812 2014-07-16 14:31:47 <hearn> producing a new jar isn't very hard
 813 2014-07-16 14:31:49 <sipa> and gavin and wumpus too afaik
 814 2014-07-16 14:31:51 <BlueMatt> hearn: I'm out now :)
 815 2014-07-16 14:31:56 <hearn> yay. party time :)
 816 2014-07-16 14:31:59 <BlueMatt> (and working on bitcoin full time-ish in a week or so)
 817 2014-07-16 14:32:02 <BlueMatt> no, that was the last month
 818 2014-07-16 14:32:11 <hearn> yes ...... party time! :)
 819 2014-07-16 14:32:17 * BlueMatt just finished up about a month of roadtrips with a gf
 820 2014-07-16 14:32:22 <hearn> ooh
 821 2014-07-16 14:32:30 <sipa> galois fields are always fun
 822 2014-07-16 14:32:31 * daybyter likes java
 823 2014-07-16 14:32:43 <hearn> like, cruising along an interstate wearing shades, listening to rock in an open top car?
 824 2014-07-16 14:32:51 <hearn> then stopping at a motel and watching an elvis impersonator?
 825 2014-07-16 14:33:03 <BlueMatt> hearn: actually, thats incredibly accurate
 826 2014-07-16 14:33:15 <BlueMatt> red convertible, specifically
 827 2014-07-16 14:33:58 <hearn> for some reason the term road trip always makes me think of this photo: http://i1.ytimg.com/vi/OVRn7-JXnvA/maxresdefault.jpg
 828 2014-07-16 14:34:20 <iwilcox> BlueMatt: Full time?  That foundation-funded post with Gavin, or something else?
 829 2014-07-16 14:34:43 <BlueMatt> iwilcox: well, full-time-ish
 830 2014-07-16 14:35:51 <drizztbsd> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bsh1NteCAAAUzz7.jpg:large
 831 2014-07-16 14:35:55 <hearn> he means full time when it's not party time
 832 2014-07-16 14:36:27 <BlueMatt> https://plus.google.com/photos/104449506075868014180/albums/6036667030428252177/6036667030237945074?pid=6036667030237945074&oid=104449506075868014180
 833 2014-07-16 14:37:12 <hearn> that's pretty damn road trippy
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 835 2014-07-16 14:38:23 <hearn> BlueMatt: i got you beat though
 836 2014-07-16 14:38:25 <hearn> BlueMatt: https://plus.google.com/u/0/114798402540078632611/posts/Czzghp2Eji7
 837 2014-07-16 14:38:30 <hearn> that was my office this morning
 838 2014-07-16 14:38:51 <BlueMatt> I'll beat you...I'm working out of hawaii next week
 839 2014-07-16 14:39:36 <hearn> i'll get back to you when i find a suitable retort
 840 2014-07-16 14:39:47 <BlueMatt> :p
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 849 2014-07-16 14:45:55 <wumpus> the weather is almost Hawai here right now
 850 2014-07-16 14:48:36 <ahmed_> anyone here run eloipool or use jgarzik's python-bitcoinrpc lib?
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 852 2014-07-16 14:51:20 <hearn> BlueMatt: turns out the pull tester no longer works, at least not for me :(
 853 2014-07-16 14:51:21 <wumpus> lots of people do, better to just ask your question
 854 2014-07-16 14:51:25 <hearn> seems bitcoind disconnects when it shouldn't
 855 2014-07-16 14:51:44 <BlueMatt> hearn: are you running with the extra blocks thing? thats a known bug
 856 2014-07-16 14:51:51 <BlueMatt> with that option disabled it should pass?
 857 2014-07-16 14:51:56 <hearn> i'm not running with anything, just the default arguments
 858 2014-07-16 14:52:06 <BlueMatt> hmm, where did it fail?
 859 2014-07-16 14:52:11 <BlueMatt> b1001 or related blocks?
 860 2014-07-16 14:52:21 <hearn> after b7
 861 2014-07-16 14:52:23 <ahmed_> wumpus: trying to run eloipool and for some reason i cant seem to get it to run.
 862 2014-07-16 14:52:25 <BlueMatt> :(
 863 2014-07-16 14:52:29 <ahmed_> just end up with this error:
 864 2014-07-16 14:52:30 <sipa> hearn: which code?
 865 2014-07-16 14:52:44 <sipa> which commit, i mean
 866 2014-07-16 14:52:51 <ahmed_>   File "/usr/lib/python3.4/http/client.py", line 1093, in _send_request
 867 2014-07-16 14:52:51 <ahmed_>     self.putrequest(method, url, **skips)
 868 2014-07-16 14:52:51 <ahmed_>   File "/usr/lib/python3.4/http/client.py", line 948, in putrequest
 869 2014-07-16 14:52:51 <ahmed_>     raise CannotSendRequest(self.__state)
 870 2014-07-16 14:52:51 <ahmed_> http.client.CannotSendRequest: Request-sent
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 873 2014-07-16 14:53:19 <hearn> current head
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 875 2014-07-16 14:53:25 <ahmed_> dir
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 877 2014-07-16 14:54:02 <hearn> i think the problem is that local nodes are now being disconnected if they do a protocol violation, not just "not banned"
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 879 2014-07-16 14:54:28 <hearn> pull tester does not expect to be disconnected
 880 2014-07-16 14:54:37 <ahmed_> wumpus: i can connect via curl and also by running a local bitcoind and using rpcconnect just fine
 881 2014-07-16 14:54:43 <sipa> the pulltester script sets whitelisting for localhost
 882 2014-07-16 14:54:58 <hearn> ah
 883 2014-07-16 14:54:58 <sipa> so it shouldn't disconnect for protocol violations
 884 2014-07-16 14:55:06 <hearn> where is the pulltester script?
 885 2014-07-16 14:55:20 <sipa> ?
 886 2014-07-16 14:55:27 <sipa> in qa/... something
 887 2014-07-16 14:55:38 <sipa> but it's all automatic, it should use that when you do make check
 888 2014-07-16 14:57:11 <hearn> ah i see. didn't realise it was all so integrated now. though i do not have mingw setup. anyway, will use the script to run bitcoind
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 895 2014-07-16 15:10:02 * hearn gets the feeling nobody bothers to read what he writes sometimes
 896 2014-07-16 15:10:59 <wumpus> hearn: how's that?
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 944 2014-07-16 15:47:36 <jcorgan> wumpus: is there a write up of how headersfirst is supposed to work?  also, i seem unable to recreate the config problems i was seeing earlier.
 945 2014-07-16 15:48:05 <sipa> jcorgan: i can tell you how the current implementation works...
 946 2014-07-16 15:48:08 Skirmant has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
 947 2014-07-16 15:48:18 <jcorgan> sure, thanks.
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 950 2014-07-16 15:49:13 <sipa> i'll try to do some writeup once it gets merged (which is sort of blocked by pulltester needing significant changes before it can deal with it...)
 951 2014-07-16 15:49:34 <jcorgan> i'm testing the branch here, all seems well, but i don't know all the new behaviors i'm supposed to be seeing
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 953 2014-07-16 15:50:14 <sipa> so in terms of expected behaviour
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 956 2014-07-16 15:50:34 <sipa> as long as it's catching up headers, it should only be fetching blocks from a single peer
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 958 2014-07-16 15:50:58 <sipa> which should take at most ~minutes
 959 2014-07-16 15:51:08 <sipa> during which you'll see a lot of retarget messages
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 963 2014-07-16 15:53:36 <jcorgan> i have addnode'd a local fast peer, so the getheaders looks like it completed in ~30 sec
 964 2014-07-16 15:53:38 <sipa> afterwards fetching should happen from multiple peers in parallel
 965 2014-07-16 15:54:03 <sipa> ideally all peers are approximately the same order of magnitude in bandwidth/throughput
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 967 2014-07-16 15:54:37 <jcorgan> i can see the parallel downloads, nice, will have to do some getpeerinfo's to check bandwidth
 968 2014-07-16 15:56:23 <jcorgan> looks like i have 8 connections, each with 16 "inflight" blocks
 969 2014-07-16 15:56:42 <sipa> there's a limit of 16 per peer afaik
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 972 2014-07-16 16:00:14 <jcorgan> so what does having the headers in the first few minutes actually enable?
 973 2014-07-16 16:00:43 <sipa> knowing what to download
 974 2014-07-16 16:00:56 <sipa> and having verified the PoW already for it, so there's much less DoS risk
 975 2014-07-16 16:01:15 <sipa> currently we just have to ask peers to give us what we have - we don't know what they have in advance
 976 2014-07-16 16:01:15 <jcorgan> got it
 977 2014-07-16 16:01:48 <jcorgan> working great so far
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 979 2014-07-16 16:02:03 <jcorgan> and fyi, it even works with addrindex :)
 980 2014-07-16 16:02:14 <sipa> i wouldn't expect it not to
 981 2014-07-16 16:02:55 <jcorgan> the headersfirst changeset is surprisingly small
 982 2014-07-16 16:03:14 <sipa> that's because it's the 10th pullrequest :)
 983 2014-07-16 16:03:19 <sipa> most logic went in before
 984 2014-07-16 16:04:20 <jcorgan> i was having a problem earlier getting txindex and addrindex turned on, but i'm convinced now it was sleep-deprived operator error
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 986 2014-07-16 16:05:02 <jcorgan> fixed the sleep part, now it is working
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1017 2014-07-16 16:24:58 <ahmed_> anyone with any ideas?
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1285 2014-07-16 21:24:21 <jgarzik> Bundesbank PPP paper on bitcoin, http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2461588
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1353 2014-07-16 22:39:24 <opencryptoreview> Hi all, I've made a new site that allows disscussion on published, yet to be published or semi formal papers. I posted the link to /r/bitoin but haven't gotten any contributors yet. Is anyone here interested in something like this? You can post anything you want and crit it. www.opencryptoreview.com
1354 2014-07-16 22:39:48 YoY has joined
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1357 2014-07-16 22:41:39 <opencryptoreview> This is a topic that interests me greatly. If someone has a particular opinion about this, it would be great to get your opinion here: http://www.opencryptoreview.com/papers/70/near-zero-bitcoin-transaction-fees-cannot-last-forever
1358 2014-07-16 22:42:33 christophe has joined
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1360 2014-07-16 22:43:52 <gmaxwell> 2010 wants their headline back? transaction fees on average have not been near zero for a long time. :)
1361 2014-07-16 22:44:06 <gmaxwell> opencryptoreview: sounds like a useful site.
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1365 2014-07-16 22:47:51 <andytoshi> opencryptoreview: cool site, i'll check it out and maybe crosspost a few things from bitcoin.ninja
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1369 2014-07-16 22:50:13 <andytoshi> opencryptoreview: any plans to support openid?
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1373 2014-07-16 22:53:08 <justanotheruser> opencryptoreview: I wish I didn't have to log in to comment
1374 2014-07-16 22:53:11 <justanotheruser> good website though
1375 2014-07-16 22:55:16 <opencryptoreview> I had support for openID but removed it
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1378 2014-07-16 22:56:03 <opencryptoreview> do you think I should put it back?
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1380 2014-07-16 22:56:23 <andytoshi> i think so, launchpad and stackexchange use it
1381 2014-07-16 22:58:47 <opencryptoreview> andytoshi: ok, I will look at putting it back
1382 2014-07-16 22:59:19 <opencryptoreview> andytoshi: what is bitcoin.ninja? google wasn't kind to me
1383 2014-07-16 22:59:48 <andytoshi> opencryptoreview: bitcoin.ninja is the URL :)
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1385 2014-07-16 23:01:36 <opencryptoreview> andytoshi: ahh I see. that POS article would be something great to discuss as many people say it's insecure but most ignore that advice.
1386 2014-07-16 23:01:58 <andytoshi> yeah, i'm adding an abstract and fixing the citations now..
1387 2014-07-16 23:02:31 <iwilcox> sipa: Is there a technical limitation that prevents parallel sync of blocks in the first few seconds of h-f sync, or is it just low priority making that stage parallel too?
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1389 2014-07-16 23:03:56 <sipa> iwilcox: it would imply fethching all headers from everyone
1390 2014-07-16 23:04:09 <opencryptoreview> andytoshi: is it your article? and is bitcoin.ninja your site?
1391 2014-07-16 23:04:26 <sipa> iwilcox: or at least, nontrivial to avoid
1392 2014-07-16 23:04:59 <andytoshi> opencryptoreview: the POS article is mine. bitcoin.ninja is BlueMatt's site
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1394 2014-07-16 23:05:22 <iwilcox> sipa: I suspect what's tripping me up here is insufficient understanding of the wire protocol
1395 2014-07-16 23:05:54 <sipa> well to start fetching blocks from peers, you need to know what blovks they havr
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1397 2014-07-16 23:06:00 <sipa> blocks, have
1398 2014-07-16 23:06:07 <opencryptoreview> andytoshi: ok great, so I guess you could post it on opencryptoreview and then ping people you rate to provide some feedback
1399 2014-07-16 23:06:19 <sipa> if you're only learning about those headers yourself, that's harder
1400 2014-07-16 23:06:43 <opencryptoreview> andytoshi: would something like that be useful for you?
1401 2014-07-16 23:06:44 <sipa> you could periodicially poll peers, so see if they know about block X you've just learned about
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1403 2014-07-16 23:07:13 <sipa> my implementation now just wait until we've come reasonably close in prpcessing headers from one peer
1404 2014-07-16 23:07:20 <iwilcox> sipa: So how did you learn about block X?  By asking a peer based on height?
1405 2014-07-16 23:07:31 <sipa> there is no height based indexing
1406 2014-07-16 23:07:49 <sipa> you just ask peers "what headers do you have following block X"
1407 2014-07-16 23:07:53 <andytoshi> opencryptoreview: yeah, a review site would be really great. current strategy is "post on IRC asking for comments repeatedly"
1408 2014-07-16 23:08:08 <andytoshi> opencryptoreview: we should move this discussion to #bitcoin-wizards, it is not on topic here
1409 2014-07-16 23:08:21 <sipa> agree
1410 2014-07-16 23:08:26 <iwilcox> sipa: Including in the non-h-f sync case?
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1412 2014-07-16 23:08:47 <opencryptoreview> andytoshi: ok, my bad, what is bitcoin-wizards?
1413 2014-07-16 23:08:54 <sipa> iwilcox: yes, though currently we just ask for hashes rather than full headers
1414 2014-07-16 23:09:04 <andytoshi> opencryptoreview: /join #bitcoin-wizards    it is the channel next door
1415 2014-07-16 23:09:43 <iwilcox> sipa: And then all block requests are done by hash from then on, yeah?
1416 2014-07-16 23:09:50 <sipa> yup
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1418 2014-07-16 23:11:03 <iwilcox> Sorry to make noise with basic questions; just think it'd be more useful to try h-f already knowing these basics, so I can picture what's going on when it's working (or broken)
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1420 2014-07-16 23:11:40 <sipa> feel free to ask
1421 2014-07-16 23:11:59 <jgarzik> grrrrr
1422 2014-07-16 23:12:07 <jgarzik> suddenly bitcoin-tx utility needs uiInterface
1423 2014-07-16 23:12:29 <sipa> why?
1424 2014-07-16 23:12:36 <jcorgan> fyi, full headersfirst sync from fast local node and 7 remote nodes was ~100 mins
1425 2014-07-16 23:12:37 <sipa> it shouldn't..
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1427 2014-07-16 23:12:46 <sipa> jcorgan: nice
1428 2014-07-16 23:13:36 <sipa> jgarzik: oh, you're including main.h i see
1429 2014-07-16 23:13:41 <sipa> that feels wrong...
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1433 2014-07-16 23:14:17 <sipa> some of the constants relating to core data structures can probably move to core.h
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1435 2014-07-16 23:15:17 <sipa> jcorgan: that'_s the lowest number i've seen i think
1436 2014-07-16 23:16:28 <jcorgan> well, the local node is over GbE, and .bitcoin is on RAID5 :)
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1438 2014-07-16 23:17:01 <jcorgan> i'll do it again without the local node, and also try it on an EC2 instance
1439 2014-07-16 23:18:12 <jcorgan> but the log does show constant activity from all the peers, not the just the local one
1440 2014-07-16 23:18:32 <jgarzik> sipa, need main.h for MAX_BLOCK_SIZE
1441 2014-07-16 23:18:49 <jgarzik> sipa, but I can strip out the _("...") to get rid of ui_interface.h
1442 2014-07-16 23:19:00 <jgarzik> sipa, Just odd.  It builds w/ Qt just fine locally, but pulltester dislikes.
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1445 2014-07-16 23:21:01 <jgarzik> odd
1446 2014-07-16 23:21:17 <jgarzik> bitcoin-cli gets along just fine without noui
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1454 2014-07-16 23:25:23 <kazcw> jgarzik: pulltester has been failing a lot today, in one build it said /tmp ran out of space (pinging BlueMatt), so try repushing with a new timestamp before any extensive debugging
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1460 2014-07-16 23:32:20 <BlueMatt> sipa: gavinandresen wumpus can someone fix this? my access to the server appears to be borked
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1469 2014-07-16 23:42:34 <jgarzik> ah, sneaky auto-merge thing
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1471 2014-07-16 23:42:50 <jgarzik> uiInterface got moved.  robot merged to upstream master, and build broke.
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