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69 2014-07-20 01:44:31 <Polyatomic> Hello, how are you?. May I please ask someone why I'm failing to build bitcoind `v0.8.6` see paste here http://sprunge.us/JjWR
70 2014-07-20 01:45:46 <goosoodude> Do you have all of the boost packages installed for your OS?
71 2014-07-20 01:46:06 <Polyatomic> yes
72 2014-07-20 01:46:15 <sipa> #bitcoin please
73 2014-07-20 01:47:35 <Polyatomic> Was that wrong to ask in here sipa
74 2014-07-20 01:47:51 <Polyatomic> ?
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82 2014-07-20 01:56:09 <sipa> this is not a helpdesk
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97 2014-07-20 02:20:24 <jcorgan> leveldb signedness warnings: http://pastebin.com/kCGTJ1Lh
98 2014-07-20 02:20:50 <jcorgan> not sure if these matter or are just annoying
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226 2014-07-20 05:22:32 <wumpus> jcorgan: if it's in leveldb, in general we don't touch it
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229 2014-07-20 05:25:46 <jcorgan> got it
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259 2014-07-20 06:49:00 <wumpus> jcorgan: of course that doesn't mean that they don't indicate problems :)
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261 2014-07-20 06:49:57 <wumpus> the arm/x86 incompatibility in the bloom filter that I managed to find is also due to a signedness issue (although not one that raises a warning)
262 2014-07-20 06:50:56 <wumpus> (https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/2293)
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472 2014-07-20 13:34:56 <zigz> hi
473 2014-07-20 13:35:09 <zigz> how do i pass nHeight to Gethash()?
474 2014-07-20 13:35:10 sirk390 has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
475 2014-07-20 13:35:23 <zigz> or what's best practice for that
476 2014-07-20 13:37:11 <sipa> what are you trying to do?
477 2014-07-20 13:37:18 <sipa> the height is not commonly hashed
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486 2014-07-20 13:53:26 <roybadami> Could someone tell me, where is it documented that multisig transactions in P2SH redeem scripts aren't subject to the BIP 11 three signature limit for standardness?
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492 2014-07-20 14:11:18 <sipa> roybadami: nowhere
493 2014-07-20 14:11:26 <sipa> it was accidental
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495 2014-07-20 14:14:33 <roybadami> Ah, thank you. So it's been like this since BIP16 was first implemented?
496 2014-07-20 14:15:50 <sipa> yes
497 2014-07-20 14:16:17 <sipa> (though for 0.10 the standardness rules are intentionally being weakened further for p2sh)
498 2014-07-20 14:16:24 <roybadami> Would it make sense to update BIP16 to reflect reality, then?
499 2014-07-20 14:16:58 <sipa> i'm very much against updating bips... they're not references, but proposed changes
500 2014-07-20 14:17:04 <sipa> if it needs a bip, it will need a new one
501 2014-07-20 14:17:16 <sipa> but standardness is not consensus-critical, and a local client decision anyway
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503 2014-07-20 14:19:38 <roybadami> I suppose I'd prefer it if bips could be considered references. Surely BIP70 is intended to be regarded as a reference for implementors of the payment protocol? There is no other reference that I'm aare of
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508 2014-07-20 14:22:43 <sipa> well, sure
509 2014-07-20 14:23:19 <sipa> but it is still just a list of proposed changes, that individually people or pieces of infrastructure accept or not
510 2014-07-20 14:23:27 <roybadami> It's very confusing, to have BIP16, written by Gavin, status Accepted, with no indication that this doesn't correspond to what was actually implemented.
511 2014-07-20 14:23:28 <sipa> the whole purpose is to give a unique id to an idea
512 2014-07-20 14:23:47 <sipa> if you change the idea, you need to use a new number
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514 2014-07-20 14:24:06 <sipa> yeah, we need reference documentation for that
515 2014-07-20 14:24:43 <sipa> yes, the change proposed by bip16 was accepted by the network
516 2014-07-20 14:25:00 <sipa> that doesn't mean that there were no further changes to similar pieces of the rules afterwards
517 2014-07-20 14:26:09 <roybadami> But if the standardness rule in BIP16 was never implemented, surely it doesn't hurt to add a note to that affect
518 2014-07-20 14:26:28 <sipa> ok, clarifications, sure
519 2014-07-20 14:27:07 <sipa> but having a full reference would be nice; for example the haskell standard is written as chapters/paragraphs, and its proposed changes contain a section that describes which paragraphs in the standard are modified when that proposed change takes effect
520 2014-07-20 14:27:50 <sipa> unfortunately, for a consensus system we can't really have an authoritative reference (ultimately, the actual rules are just what is running in the network)
521 2014-07-20 14:28:28 <roybadami> Transactions that redeem these pay-to-script outpoints are only considered standard if the serialized script [...] is, itself, one of the other standard transaction types. [Historical note: due to a bug in the reference implementation, the reference client did not enforce the n<=3 rule for standardness of BIP11 transactions.]
522 2014-07-20 14:28:35 <roybadami> something like that
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524 2014-07-20 14:28:49 <sipa> but imho standardness rules don't belong in bips in the first place, as they're local client policy
525 2014-07-20 14:29:14 <sipa> sometimes they're relevant to mention as they're part of how a consensus rule change can be done safely
526 2014-07-20 14:30:02 <roybadami> I don't necessarily disagree with you, but BIP11 and BIP16 purport to define standardness for multisig transactions
527 2014-07-20 14:30:30 <sipa> fair enough
528 2014-07-20 14:31:04 <roybadami> And if there was a note there explaining the mismatch with reality I wouldn't have had to waste your time asking about it :-)
529 2014-07-20 14:31:19 <sipa> ok, point taken :)
530 2014-07-20 14:31:31 <sipa> i just dislike the idea of retroactively changing ideas
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532 2014-07-20 14:32:01 <roybadami> I thought the decision with putting BIPs in git was that it was OK to revise them
533 2014-07-20 14:32:02 <sipa> (you may have someone mentioning "the bip16 standardness rule", which after the 'note' may be interpreted differently)
534 2014-07-20 14:32:27 <sipa> clarifications, typos, ...
535 2014-07-20 14:32:33 <sipa> but not changing the meaning
536 2014-07-20 14:32:44 <sipa> (unless they're draft, in which case it doesn't matter)
537 2014-07-20 14:33:01 <sipa> also, putting them in git was done to prevent rogue editing in the wiki
538 2014-07-20 14:33:54 <sipa> (also, all this is mostly my own opinion - and i don't participate in approving bip changes)
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544 2014-07-20 14:38:38 <roybadami> Maybe we need informational BIPs (or another document series) for stuff like this. There are a lot of places where learning about Bitcoin is hard due to lack of documentation
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546 2014-07-20 14:39:22 <sipa> https://bitcoin.org/en/developer-documentation
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548 2014-07-20 14:42:09 <roybadami> Oh, that looks pretty good - I didn't know that existed yet
549 2014-07-20 14:43:54 Highway61 has quit (Client Quit)
550 2014-07-20 14:44:29 <sipa> also, ignore me if i'm unnecessarily terse - i haven't slept for over 24 hours
551 2014-07-20 14:45:13 <roybadami> np, I'll stop bothering you
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554 2014-07-20 14:51:25 <gwillen> sipa: I agree about not editing BIPs materially, but they should be updated with like, a Superseded-by header and a note at the top of the body
555 2014-07-20 14:52:19 <sipa> gwillen: agree there
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603 2014-07-20 16:19:22 <maaku> sipa: you make it home alright?
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621 2014-07-20 16:40:50 <hearn> good evening
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641 2014-07-20 17:13:16 <AmThatsMe> Hi everyone !
642 2014-07-20 17:13:37 YoY has joined
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644 2014-07-20 17:15:14 <AmThatsMe> I'm having trouble debugging the reference client. I'm using Eclipse on OSX. I configured the build with "./configure --enable-debug=true" to add the debugging flags. When i install a breakpoint in eclipse, i'm getting on of 2 problems: 1) source not found or 2)cannot install breakpoint.
645 2014-07-20 17:15:25 <AmThatsMe> anyone can help ?
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658 2014-07-20 17:37:59 <hearn> sipa: around?
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783 2014-07-20 20:30:20 <ronkrt1> what would the best os for a mining pool be Linux wise?
784 2014-07-20 20:30:39 <daybyter> debian?
785 2014-07-20 20:31:04 <daybyter> I use debian on servers in general. Don't want to compile stuff.
786 2014-07-20 20:31:18 <daybyter> I prefer gentoo for desktops.
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788 2014-07-20 20:31:28 <ronkrt1> ok daybyter, thanks, also are there any premade scripts that can be used for multi-mining, autoswitching and auto convert/payouts?
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793 2014-07-20 20:33:28 <tommygunner> and thats when it isnt a bitcoin question anymore :>
794 2014-07-20 20:34:27 <ronkrt1> it is when you want to payout in btc :P
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838 2014-07-20 21:17:57 <dgenr8> AmThatsMe: are you launching the process to be debugged from inside eclipse?
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864 2014-07-20 21:57:37 <benkay> merged mining: could any previous hash from, say, bitcoin satisfying a merge-mined coin's difficulty be submitted as a coinbase on that merge-mined coin?
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866 2014-07-20 22:00:18 <benkay> i guess if merged mining is happening than any merge-mined coin's difficulty'll be way higher than past blocks from btc duh
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869 2014-07-20 22:01:14 <benkay> thanks for being my rubber chicken #bitcoin-dev
870 2014-07-20 22:01:34 <justanotheruser> benkay: no
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873 2014-07-20 22:02:08 <justanotheruser> you have to prove you are merged mining for the coin before you merged mine for it
874 2014-07-20 22:02:29 <justanotheruser> #bitcoin
875 2014-07-20 22:02:51 <benkay> justanotheruser: uh, pardon?
876 2014-07-20 22:03:07 pilu has joined
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878 2014-07-20 22:03:24 <justanotheruser> join #bitcoin, it is a more appropriate channel I think
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880 2014-07-20 22:04:45 <justanotheruser> I think I misinterpreted your question as asking "can any bitcoin mined be applied to an altchains merged mine"
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882 2014-07-20 22:05:39 <BlueMatt> what is the status of corey rewriting pull-testing stuff?
883 2014-07-20 22:05:53 <BlueMatt> how much effort should I invest in makin pull-tester work properly?
884 2014-07-20 22:05:56 <BlueMatt> wumpus: ^
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917 2014-07-20 22:47:37 <gmaxwell> hearn: trickling is mostly not a privacy feature, it saves a pretty significant amount of bandwidth.
918 2014-07-20 22:47:51 <gmaxwell> (something like 40% of the inv bandwidth)
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925 2014-07-20 23:00:01 <hearn> gmaxwell: was that measured or the result of some simulation?
926 2014-07-20 23:03:46 <gmaxwell> Measured. A simulation would probably be useful for parameter twiddling.
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929 2014-07-20 23:06:17 <kazcw> gmaxwell: the only mechanism by which trickling saves bandwidth is preventing two nodes exchanging the same invs, since invs that are deferred are eventually sent unless setInventoryKnown changes before that node becomes the trickleSend node, right?
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933 2014-07-20 23:09:43 <kazcw> trickling saving 40% of inv bandwidth means that without trickling most invs would pass each other in transit, but agreeing on who sends via the odd/even mechanism should solve the same thing more effectively
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