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  24 2014-07-29 00:21:12 <cfields> jcorgan: looks good: https://travis-ci.org/theuni/bitcoin/jobs/31093744
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 130 2014-07-29 02:50:26 <midnightmagic> wumpus: is github merging working now with git commit signing? I thought the reason why nobody signed is that github's conflict resolver blows away commit-signing utility and bitcoin-dev relies on it heavily..?
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 226 2014-07-29 05:29:11 <wumpus> midnightmagic: I always use the utility in contrib/devtools/github-merge.sh for merging instead of github's interface; it allows checking and testing the merge before committing as well as signing it
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 229 2014-07-29 05:30:24 <wumpus> midnightmagic: agreed that if you use github's merge on a signed commit you introduce potential for tampering by signing the commit but not the merge itself
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 238 2014-07-29 05:51:29 <earlz> Is it possible to get a balance of an address in your wallet?
 239 2014-07-29 05:52:23 <earlz> I know there is the account tracking stuff (that is deprecated/buggy?) but like if you have multiple addresses for say the "x" account, how can you determine how many btc are in each address?
 240 2014-07-29 05:55:39 <wumpus> earlz: listunspent with an address filter, then accumulate the output amount
 241 2014-07-29 05:56:21 <wumpus> earlz: but this almost certainly not something that you want to do with the bitcoind wallet, unless you use raw transactions, as it does not make any guarantees about coin selection if you use the send* RPCs
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 245 2014-07-29 05:58:20 <earlz> I need like a listreceivedbyaddress that takes sent transactions itno account
 246 2014-07-29 05:58:30 <earlz> it also needs to be fairly fast too.. ugh
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 250 2014-07-29 06:00:14 <earlz> this seems like a fairly common thing for merchant applications and such. how is there not something for this already? Is account support really trust worthy?
 251 2014-07-29 06:00:34 <earlz> I've heard using accounts for actual critical accounting is a very bad idea
 252 2014-07-29 06:02:07 <wumpus> it is
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 254 2014-07-29 06:03:07 <earlz> so listunspent with manual processing is best bet?
 255 2014-07-29 06:03:32 <earlz> one would think that for getbalance there would be a matching getaddressbalance
 256 2014-07-29 06:03:46 <wumpus> even if something is a common thing for merchant applications, if no one writes it, it won't exist... and if people write it, it's usually some commercial/proprietary product and not released as open source
 257 2014-07-29 06:04:32 <earlz> I can't imagine it'd be that hard. Problem is this thing I'm making will use more than just bitcoins. porting code to a million shitcoins would be horrible
 258 2014-07-29 06:04:55 <earlz> maybe I'll submit a pull request anyway. it seems like a pretty trivial operation with getbalance already implemented
 259 2014-07-29 06:05:03 <wumpus> and as I said, if you rely on 'coin control' per address you shouldn't rely on bitcoind's wallet functionality
 260 2014-07-29 06:05:25 anarchystar has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 261 2014-07-29 06:05:27 <wumpus> it has a wallet abstraction, not a balance-per-address abstraction
 262 2014-07-29 06:05:38 <earlz> I don't /think/ I have to worry about coin control
 263 2014-07-29 06:05:49 igrigorik_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 264 2014-07-29 06:05:50 <wumpus> well you are worried about balances of addresses
 265 2014-07-29 06:06:10 <earlz> I'm worried about knowing what the balance of an address is. Not that outgoing transactions use only those coins
 266 2014-07-29 06:06:11 <wumpus> that's low-level, a bit like worrying what sector numbers your files on disk end up
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 268 2014-07-29 06:06:37 <wumpus> a high-level OS API also has no call 'how are my files distributed over disk sectors'
 269 2014-07-29 06:07:09 <earlz> That's merchant applications 101 though. Generate an address, wait for funds to be received on it. There is no way there isn't something suitable for that without dropping down to block file parsing
 270 2014-07-29 06:07:31 <wumpus> well that's listreceivedbyaddress isn't it?
 271 2014-07-29 06:07:54 <wumpus> listtransactions in general will show you what the receiving address was
 272 2014-07-29 06:07:59 <phantomcircuit> wumpus, no but often that would be helpful...
 273 2014-07-29 06:08:11 <wumpus> phantomcircuit: sure, but it's out of scope
 274 2014-07-29 06:08:11 <earlz> mmm.. I see your point
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 278 2014-07-29 06:09:32 <earlz> So what would you have to do. listsinceblock/listtransactions and manually step through spend/receive transactions
 279 2014-07-29 06:09:35 <earlz> that's horrid
 280 2014-07-29 06:09:38 <wumpus> phantomcircuit: because software has no physical 'weight' it's important to keep a well-defined scope; if not it results in over-complex, unmaintable code. An application can't be everything to everone.
 281 2014-07-29 06:10:32 <wumpus> earlz: or use another wallet that has better support for this, if it eists
 282 2014-07-29 06:10:42 <wumpus> earlz: you're not *forced* to use bitcoind's wallet
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 286 2014-07-29 06:11:27 <earlz> that's like saying "you're not 'forced' to use Windows.. write your own version of our software in Linux if you aren't happy" lol
 287 2014-07-29 06:11:42 <earlz> I think getreceivedbyaddress will work with more database complications. ugh
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 289 2014-07-29 06:12:07 <wumpus> earlz: well you can buy windows; if you don't pay for a ready-made solution, you usually have to assemble parts yourself
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 297 2014-07-29 06:13:20 <wumpus> you can't expect someone else to always have done your work for free
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 300 2014-07-29 06:14:20 <earlz> it seems like something that should've just already been created heh. I assume when I see something like that, that I'm just missing something, not that it's never been implemented
 301 2014-07-29 06:14:59 <earlz> btw are there any plans to rip out account support at some later point?
 302 2014-07-29 06:15:01 <wumpus> well it's possible; there's many wallets out there today (bitcoinj-based, codeshark's ciphrex wallet, btcd has a wallet, and on and on)
 303 2014-07-29 06:15:18 <wumpus> maybe one has exactly what you need
 304 2014-07-29 06:15:22 <wumpus> earlz: yes
 305 2014-07-29 06:15:25 <earlz> using a non-reference wallet always has some security implications though
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 307 2014-07-29 06:15:41 <wumpus> the reference wallet doesn't come with any guarantees either
 308 2014-07-29 06:16:17 <wumpus> and you can point any SPV wallet at your own node to get full-node level security
 309 2014-07-29 06:16:44 <earlz> I haven't done nearly enough research into SPV wallets heh
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 311 2014-07-29 06:17:36 <earlz> btw, should the "typical uses" section here be removed? https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Accounts_explained
 312 2014-07-29 06:17:49 <earlz> since that is an insecure way to use them? (apparently?)
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 314 2014-07-29 06:19:10 <Luke-Jr> earlz: why do you think you want to do this? the information you're asking for is not meaningful to merchants
 315 2014-07-29 06:19:15 <wumpus> earlz: it's not insecure per-ce, the account system itself is well-defined, but people expect wildly different things from it, and it won't be changed because that will break other's expectation
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 317 2014-07-29 06:19:44 <Luke-Jr> earlz: transactions aren't sent *from* addresses, so it's not sensible to talk about addresses as having a balance at all
 318 2014-07-29 06:20:24 <earlz> I need to determine how much was sent *to* an address. but sometimes, the address might be reused
 319 2014-07-29 06:20:27 <wumpus> earlz: in general if you do any serious accounting you want to do it yourself, in a proper database, and not rely on bitcoind to 'get it right'... that way you can implement your own expectations instead of make assumptions about bitcoind
 320 2014-07-29 06:20:50 <Luke-Jr> earlz: you should never reuse an address
 321 2014-07-29 06:21:10 <earlz> It's about 99% more convenient to reuse an address in this case
 322 2014-07-29 06:21:16 <wumpus> well at least you should never give it out multiple times
 323 2014-07-29 06:21:24 <wumpus> you can't prevent a customer from *sending* to it multiple times
 324 2014-07-29 06:21:49 <wumpus> you can of course warn and discourage it, but it will happen sometimes
 325 2014-07-29 06:21:55 <Luke-Jr> earlz: doing so is a Bad Idea™
 326 2014-07-29 06:22:11 <Luke-Jr> earlz: read https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Address_reuse and realise it's still not complete
 327 2014-07-29 06:22:29 <Luke-Jr> earlz: and there are no guarantees that you won't lose all your bitcoins if you do it despite all that
 328 2014-07-29 06:22:31 <Belxjander> wumpus: how about assigning 1 address per customer...and let them send multiple times and confirm the total amounts sent vs purchased items listed...and list the difference in the users account?
 329 2014-07-29 06:22:34 <Luke-Jr> (not that there are any guarantees anyway)
 330 2014-07-29 06:23:01 <Luke-Jr> Belxjander: still shouldn't
 331 2014-07-29 06:23:25 j0b_ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 332 2014-07-29 06:23:30 <Belxjander> wumpus: that is based on the idea where the amounts transferred by blockchain have conversion data recorded as part of the user log as well for replay purposes for verification of totals
 333 2014-07-29 06:23:30 <earlz> so why do mining pools allow you to auto-withdraw to an address? They should be askign you for an address every time, or mayb easking for a list of addresses
 334 2014-07-29 06:23:31 <Luke-Jr> Belxjander: you probably don't want to *break* if they send multiple times anyway, either
 335 2014-07-29 06:23:47 <Luke-Jr> earlz: they should, yes
 336 2014-07-29 06:23:48 <wumpus> Belxjander: you can keep track of how much they owe on a per-user basis, but nevertheless I'd recommend giving out a new address every time the customer needs to send funds
 337 2014-07-29 06:23:53 Plasmastar has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 338 2014-07-29 06:24:05 <earlz> you realize this makes bitcoin basically unusable from a practical standpoint, right?
 339 2014-07-29 06:24:11 <Luke-Jr> earlz: not at all
 340 2014-07-29 06:24:12 <earlz> like as a consumer
 341 2014-07-29 06:24:14 <Belxjander> Luke-Jr: I was thinking of the multiple sends case...and sort out some kind of p2sh or some other mechanism for automagic forwarding
 342 2014-07-29 06:24:47 <Luke-Jr> Belxjander: the problem is already solved: payment protocol, stealth addresses, HD pubseeds, …
 343 2014-07-29 06:25:36 <earlz> what is HD pubseeds? addresses generated from a "seed" of some sort?
 344 2014-07-29 06:25:41 <Belxjander> Luke-Jr: right...so it just needs to be put into the store software to use those existing solutions then and not just give a raw address
 345 2014-07-29 06:25:42 <Luke-Jr> earlz: yes
 346 2014-07-29 06:25:55 <earlz> don't all of these also have their own security concerns?
 347 2014-07-29 06:26:03 <Luke-Jr> earlz: not so far
 348 2014-07-29 06:26:19 <wumpus> Belxjander: yes, for example bitpay and other payment providers support payment protocol
 349 2014-07-29 06:26:24 <Luke-Jr> earlz: https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/blob/master/bip-0032.mediawiki
 350 2014-07-29 06:26:42 * Luke-Jr personally always uses the address with bitpay, and has no trouble *shrug*
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 355 2014-07-29 06:27:23 <earlz> I dream of a currency where everyone can stuff all their funds in one address and be perfectly secure and privacy protected lol
 356 2014-07-29 06:27:40 <Luke-Jr> earlz: that's a HD seed, not an address
 357 2014-07-29 06:27:45 <earlz> of course, address would probably have to have a different meaning than a pub/priv key
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 360 2014-07-29 06:27:54 <wumpus> earlz: stealth addresses are one such idea, or indeed, HD seeds
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 364 2014-07-29 06:28:35 <wumpus> earlz: you can give someone a HD seed, they can use public derivation to generate an infinite amount of low-level 'addresses' from it, where you can generate the private key for them
 365 2014-07-29 06:28:47 <Luke-Jr> earlz: also, addresses are opaque; they don't have to be implemented with EC keypairs ;)
 366 2014-07-29 06:28:49 <wumpus> earlz: it's all possible already, but some assembly is required to get it to work
 367 2014-07-29 06:29:21 <earlz> hmmm
 368 2014-07-29 06:29:25 <wumpus> earlz: lots of innovation is also still being done
 369 2014-07-29 06:29:42 * Luke-Jr dreams of a day he can approve a recurring payment and have his wallet auto-generate-and-sign future payment transactions with nLockTime <.<
 370 2014-07-29 06:29:47 <earlz> I've heard of HD, btu wasn't aware you could give someone the public seed for that use case
 371 2014-07-29 06:30:17 nullbyte has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
 372 2014-07-29 06:30:23 <jrick> HD extended keys are a very nice solution to that problem
 373 2014-07-29 06:30:25 <wumpus> earlz: that's public/private derivation in BIP32
 374 2014-07-29 06:30:29 <earlz> How would recurring payments even work? lol
 375 2014-07-29 06:30:59 <wumpus> Luke-Jr: what if you want to cancel?
 376 2014-07-29 06:31:06 <Luke-Jr> wumpus: then you just don't broadcast them
 377 2014-07-29 06:31:10 <wumpus> Luke-Jr: oh right, you can double spend them before the lock time
 378 2014-07-29 06:31:14 <Luke-Jr> or that
 379 2014-07-29 06:31:26 <earlz> you'd have to make sure your wallet is open all the time
 380 2014-07-29 06:31:30 <wumpus> Luke-Jr: I assumed you'd send the whole bunch to the merchant
 381 2014-07-29 06:31:35 <Luke-Jr> earlz: nope, you can sign all the payments in advance
 382 2014-07-29 06:31:39 <gmaxwell> earlz: no, you hand them off to a third party to broadcast, but they're nlocked.
 383 2014-07-29 06:31:47 <Luke-Jr> earlz: Bitcoin supports transactions which are invalid until a future date
 384 2014-07-29 06:31:47 <earlz> eh good point
 385 2014-07-29 06:31:53 <gmaxwell> and so they're good unless you conflict them or convince the party to not announce
 386 2014-07-29 06:32:06 mappum has joined
 387 2014-07-29 06:32:20 <Luke-Jr> wumpus: maybe. I was imagining presigning the entire wallet over, and redoing the whole set after each transaction :P
 388 2014-07-29 06:32:34 <earlz> that would be a very interesting service. That's one of my big beefs with bitcoin. Recurring transactions basically aren't possible
 389 2014-07-29 06:32:40 <earlz> (with current infrastructure)
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 393 2014-07-29 06:33:15 <jrick> earlz: but the problems with accounts as implemented by bitcoind are well know, they're both "sums of btc controlable by groups of addresses" and "amounts movable between accounts" (without an on-chain transaction)
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 398 2014-07-29 06:33:42 <jrick> and the two features don't work with each other well at all
 399 2014-07-29 06:33:44 <wumpus> well that depends on what you mean with infrastructure; it's just that there is no standard for it, and wallet software doesn't provide a way to do it, but as just explained the network could support it in various ways
 400 2014-07-29 06:34:09 <earlz> I mean it wouldn't require a hard fork or anything to support would it?
 401 2014-07-29 06:34:12 <gmaxwell> The protocol itself is just fine for it, it's a wallet thing... indeed.
 402 2014-07-29 06:34:17 <wumpus> earlz: of course not!
 403 2014-07-29 06:34:19 <gmaxwell> earlz: no, this support was in bitcoin from day 1.
 404 2014-07-29 06:34:32 <earlz> I need to read up more on nlocktime
 405 2014-07-29 06:34:43 <gmaxwell> (along with many other things which have hardly been used… makes me sad— so hard to justify adding more when so much is unused)
 406 2014-07-29 06:34:46 dparrish has joined
 407 2014-07-29 06:34:51 <wumpus> earlz: almost nothing requires a hard fork, only if you want to change the rules of the game, or the block chain format
 408 2014-07-29 06:34:51 <JoannisStribingi> wumpus, you just lost the game!
 409 2014-07-29 06:35:24 <earlz> I think more API support is needed, not necessarily more things in the blockchain though
 410 2014-07-29 06:35:39 <earlz> I dream of a day when multisig can be constructed from teh graphical wallet :)
 411 2014-07-29 06:35:40 anarchystar has joined
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 413 2014-07-29 06:35:41 <wumpus> gmaxwell: yeah the onus is still on people to make user-friendly tools to use what is there, instead of addin gmore to the low-level protocol
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 415 2014-07-29 06:36:32 <earlz> Also, one day... please... can we make signing a raw transaction a little easier than a 19 step process? :)
 416 2014-07-29 06:36:51 <Luke-Jr> jrick: accounts have nothing to do with "sums of btc controlable by groups of addresses"
 417 2014-07-29 06:36:54 pierreatwork has joined
 418 2014-07-29 06:37:00 <Luke-Jr> jrick: in any circumstance
 419 2014-07-29 06:37:28 weilu has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 420 2014-07-29 06:37:34 <wumpus> earlz: sure, will that be your project?
 421 2014-07-29 06:38:08 <earlz> lol I'm an evil altcoin dev :D
 422 2014-07-29 06:38:35 <Luke-Jr> … so you not only expect us to do it, you want to steal it from us too? <.<
 423 2014-07-29 06:38:38 * earlz pulls out PR for bitcoin to go PoS
 424 2014-07-29 06:38:39 <earlz> rofl
 425 2014-07-29 06:38:54 <jrick> Luke-Jr: while I know that's technically true (addresses don't have balances, yes I know this) the balance you see in an account is just that, plus/minus any other 'moved' balances between other accounts
 426 2014-07-29 06:39:01 <gmaxwell> earlz: you're only half evil becuase you did report a useful bug to us. :)
 427 2014-07-29 06:39:20 <earlz> I wish #bitcoin was as awesome as this room, btw
 428 2014-07-29 06:39:32 <Luke-Jr> jrick: no, it isn't. when you send from address X, it doesn't care which coins it uses - it could just as well be using coins created when address Y received
 429 2014-07-29 06:39:48 <Luke-Jr> account X*
 430 2014-07-29 06:39:58 tsts has joined
 431 2014-07-29 06:40:06 <jrick> "send from address X"?
 432 2014-07-29 06:40:09 shkaiejb has quit (Quit: Leaving)
 433 2014-07-29 06:40:14 <Luke-Jr> see correction
 434 2014-07-29 06:40:19 <jrick> oh
 435 2014-07-29 06:42:05 <jrick> so 'sendfrom' or 'sendmany' isn't using coins exclusively controlled by the named account then?
 436 2014-07-29 06:42:23 <Luke-Jr> correct, there are no "coins exclusively controlled by"
 437 2014-07-29 06:42:28 <Luke-Jr> that's a wallet facet, not account
 438 2014-07-29 06:42:37 <Luke-Jr> accounts don't control coins
 439 2014-07-29 06:42:43 <jrick> sure
 440 2014-07-29 06:43:08 <Luke-Jr> the wallet optimises the spending by using the best coins, ignoring the accounts
 441 2014-07-29 06:43:09 karc has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
 442 2014-07-29 06:43:24 <Luke-Jr> this is also why transaction fees always come from the '' account, NOT the sendfrom'd account
 443 2014-07-29 06:43:36 <Luke-Jr> even if it makes the '' account go negative
 444 2014-07-29 06:44:25 <jrick> yeah that's just dumb
 445 2014-07-29 06:44:35 <jrick> but I see what you mean
 446 2014-07-29 06:44:45 <Luke-Jr> it's not dumb, it's quite by design
 447 2014-07-29 06:44:46 dparrish has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
 448 2014-07-29 06:44:53 <Luke-Jr> and for well-thought-out reasons
 449 2014-07-29 06:45:17 dparrish has joined
 450 2014-07-29 06:45:26 <jrick> but in any case, no we're not interested in "stealing" that behavior
 451 2014-07-29 06:45:53 <jrick> even if that makes our wallet incompat, it's silly to implement accounts in that way
 452 2014-07-29 06:46:06 <wumpus> why would you want to be bug-for-bug compatible with bitcoind anyway?
 453 2014-07-29 06:46:15 <wumpus> try to innovate not copy
 454 2014-07-29 06:46:24 <jrick> short answer: I don't want to, but $BOSS does :)
 455 2014-07-29 06:47:15 <Luke-Jr> jrick: on the contrary, it really doesn't make sense to implement accounts any other way. then you just end up with effectively multi-wallet - when you might as well have just gone for multi-wallet to begin with :P
 456 2014-07-29 06:47:32 <wumpus> only the consensus code needs to be bug-for-bug compatible, for things like wallets you can do your own thing without breaking anything!
 457 2014-07-29 06:47:50 <jrick> wumpus: yes I know
 458 2014-07-29 06:48:17 <jrick> I would love to deprecate the entirety of the wallet rpc api and do it over
 459 2014-07-29 06:48:18 <wumpus> jrick: well I'm surprised every day how many people don't understand that
 460 2014-07-29 06:48:23 karc has joined
 461 2014-07-29 06:49:29 <jrick> Luke-Jr: sure it does, we're working on implementing accounts as hd ext key chains right now for example
 462 2014-07-29 06:49:43 * Luke-Jr facepalms
 463 2014-07-29 06:50:03 <Belxjander> Luke-Jr: is the consencus code within any specific object or function in the bitcoin-qt source tree?
 464 2014-07-29 06:50:04 <Luke-Jr> wumpus: wouldn't it be fun to wait until all these clones finish it, and then we revamp it entirely? :P
 465 2014-07-29 06:50:14 <Luke-Jr> Belxjander: not particularly
 466 2014-07-29 06:50:29 <jrick> Luke-Jr: that's fine, honestly i've stopped caring about keeping compat with the wallet api
 467 2014-07-29 06:50:35 <Belxjander> Luke-Jr: so it is generally spread out all over the place?
 468 2014-07-29 06:50:36 <wumpus> Belxjander: main.cpp, core.cpp, and all those dangerous-sounding files like script.cpp
 469 2014-07-29 06:50:37 <jrick> because frankly I would LOVE to trash it and start over
 470 2014-07-29 06:50:40 <wumpus> Belxjander: but for example not wallet.cpp
 471 2014-07-29 06:51:14 <jrick> and I probably will, or at least add a new api on a different endpoint
 472 2014-07-29 06:51:17 <wumpus> Belxjander: yes, seperating out the consensus code into its own subdirectory/library would be a nice project, there are some refactorings in progress already
 473 2014-07-29 06:51:21 <Luke-Jr> wumpus: don't forget all of LevelDB! :P
 474 2014-07-29 06:51:28 <Luke-Jr> and various parts of OpenSSL
 475 2014-07-29 06:51:28 <jrick> but first things first, want to add spv support first
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 479 2014-07-29 06:52:42 <wumpus> jrick: bitcoinj opted to have no rpc API at all but use an in-process library
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 483 2014-07-29 06:52:58 <wumpus> jrick: which still gets lots of complaints from people who want to use it from non-java, but heh :)
 484 2014-07-29 06:53:15 <jrick> it's a reasonable decision
 485 2014-07-29 06:53:54 <wumpus> it is, but it means that it's hard to recommend using bitcoinj when someone is writing a web project in say, python
 486 2014-07-29 06:54:30 <wumpus> or, god forbid, php
 487 2014-07-29 06:55:22 <Luke-Jr> wumpus: but if only MtGox could have used BitcoinJ!
 488 2014-07-29 06:55:25 <Luke-Jr> <.<
 489 2014-07-29 06:55:57 <wumpus> Luke-Jr: coorporating would have been better for mtgox and better for bitcoinj
 490 2014-07-29 06:56:15 neotap has joined
 491 2014-07-29 06:56:44 <Luke-Jr> wumpus: in theory, there "was" QBitcoin
 492 2014-07-29 06:58:01 Rob____ has joined
 493 2014-07-29 06:58:09 <wumpus> I doubt it could have saved their operation, which was mismanged in other ways, but having some 'big' exchanges contribute to wallet libraries, instead of keeping their own secret proprietary ones, would be useful for everyone (but I suppose they think it would give an advantage away)
 494 2014-07-29 06:58:25 Rob____ is now known as Guest53831
 495 2014-07-29 06:59:29 <jcorgan> i suspect "custom, proprietary bitcoin accounting software" will go the way of "custom, proprietary crypto software"
 496 2014-07-29 06:59:40 YoY has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
 497 2014-07-29 06:59:49 <jcorgan> if only by attrition through bankruptcy
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 499 2014-07-29 07:00:50 <Luke-Jr> wumpus: sure, I was mostly joking
 500 2014-07-29 07:01:24 <wumpus> Luke-Jr: yeah, qbitcoin, magicaltux's one-man project  :)
 501 2014-07-29 07:02:13 YoY has joined
 502 2014-07-29 07:02:48 <gmaxwell> bitcoinj's wallet code is substantially less scalable than bitcoind's — even just using p2pool breaks (some) bitcoinj users. :(
 503 2014-07-29 07:03:00 <gmaxwell> so, yea, can't say that I could have seen mtgox using bitcoinj. :)
 504 2014-07-29 07:03:13 <wumpus> gmaxwell: but if an exchange contributed to it it'd quickly become more scalable
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 506 2014-07-29 07:04:15 <Luke-Jr> not sure Java can become scalable :P
 507 2014-07-29 07:05:41 banghouse has joined
 508 2014-07-29 07:06:22 <gmaxwell> Luke-Jr: sure it can be.
 509 2014-07-29 07:06:30 <gmaxwell> (scalable doesn't mean efficient. :) )
 510 2014-07-29 07:07:11 <Luke-Jr> ok, IRC really sucks for sarcasm. or I'm just too tired for sarcasm.
 511 2014-07-29 07:07:18 <gmaxwell> oh sorry, I'm a doof.
 512 2014-07-29 07:07:23 <Luke-Jr> (it could probably be semi-efficient with GCJ)
 513 2014-07-29 07:07:32 <wumpus> Luke-Jr: my sarcasm-detector worked this time!
 514 2014-07-29 07:07:46 <gmaxwell> I'm too used to defending java.
 515 2014-07-29 07:08:13 <lewellyn> gmaxwell: for great justice, do a flash project with a java backend and watch the vitriol!
 516 2014-07-29 07:08:25 <Luke-Jr> in other news, apparently GDB requires XML support to understand registers of non-native platforms (⁈)
 517 2014-07-29 07:08:37 <wumpus> why would java need defending, it's only the most-used programming language in the world :p
 518 2014-07-29 07:10:12 <wumpus> lewellyn: flash is a completely different world of shit
 519 2014-07-29 07:11:33 <lewellyn> flash is great. for what it's intended to do.
 520 2014-07-29 07:11:46 <lewellyn> banner ads are the exact opposite of what its purpose in life is :P
 521 2014-07-29 07:11:47 <gmaxwell> It's probably technically the case that javascript is the most used, but since half the things its used for aren't considered "programming" by us snobby programmers it doesn't usually get the title. :P
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 524 2014-07-29 07:14:00 <wumpus> judging from the amount of times I hear swearing from the other side of this room that the flash plugin crashed again, I'm fairly certain to judge that it's crap... I haven't run a flash plugin for years for security reasons so I cannot really weigh in myself
 525 2014-07-29 07:14:29 <Luke-Jr> IMO it's automatically crap because it's non-free <.<
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 530 2014-07-29 07:28:14 <lewellyn> wumpus: C must be crap too because people manage to write buggy shit with that too :P
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 533 2014-07-29 07:29:54 <wumpus> lewellyn: that's not a fair comparison; on the web, a bad program should not cause the execution environment to crash... if it does it's dangerous. For languages like C you know that they can be dangerous, and you wouldn't just run someone's executable.
 534 2014-07-29 07:30:12 <lewellyn> i never advocated flash as a web tech. :P
 535 2014-07-29 07:30:37 BigBitz has joined
 536 2014-07-29 07:30:48 <gmaxwell> (incidentally, use as a web-thing is also one of the things that hurt java's reputation greatly)
 537 2014-07-29 07:31:04 <lewellyn> indeed
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 539 2014-07-29 07:31:28 <lewellyn> though luckily most people don't know of j2ee so they don't know how much java they touch every day ;)
 540 2014-07-29 07:32:07 <wumpus> gmaxwell: indeed; both due to clunky and bad applets as lots of security bugs in the runtime, they should never have done the web adventure :)
 541 2014-07-29 07:34:05 ThomasV has joined
 542 2014-07-29 07:34:18 <wumpus> oh and don't forget MS's try to make a even worse competing java implementation :(
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 556 2014-07-29 07:53:08 <Belxjander> hrmmm
 557 2014-07-29 07:53:15 <Belxjander> so level DB needs to be made working
 558 2014-07-29 07:53:26 <Belxjander> and then use of the native AmiSSL implimentation of OpenSSL
 559 2014-07-29 07:55:10 <Belxjander> then maybe I can sort out something of a bitcoin wallet
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 721 2014-07-29 11:49:57 <Nopename> FYI: PVS-Studio: Checking Bitcoin - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8101664
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 763 2014-07-29 12:44:54 <jcorgan> Luke-Jr: pong
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 838 2014-07-29 14:27:07 <jgarzik> A static analysis of bitcoin: http://www.viva64.com/en/b/0268/
 839 2014-07-29 14:27:29 <jgarzik> +1 for anyone who wants to run static check tools.  they require sorting through some garbage results, but there is definite value.
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 842 2014-07-29 14:34:08 <andytoshi> i ran clang-analyze back when it was first able to and got nothing except a couple "variable initialized then immediately overwritten"s
 843 2014-07-29 14:34:13 <jcorgan> i usually run cppcheck on what i'm doing
 844 2014-07-29 14:34:44 <jcorgan> the gnuradio project has had great results from using Coverity as well
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 847 2014-07-29 14:36:21 <jcorgan> there is a jenkins plug in that runs their analysis tool and uploads the results to Coverity for processing
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 850 2014-07-29 14:37:51 <andytoshi> i like these suspicious-shift bugs the posted analyzer found. i never really thought about this until rust stopped implicitly converting ints and i had to consciously think about what i expected to be what size...it's often not trivial
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 852 2014-07-29 14:39:02 <randy-waterhouse> we can put cppcheck into travis builds
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 873 2014-07-29 14:49:36 <jgarzik> sipa, I admit I do not understand the loop-that-is-not-a-loop in http://www.viva64.com/en/b/0268/
 874 2014-07-29 14:50:40 <jgarzik> agree RE suspicious-shift
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 878 2014-07-29 14:51:55 <tobiaskim> hey, check this out - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=711966.0;all - Must be something we all can have use for, what do you think?
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 886 2014-07-29 15:00:27 <wumpus> I also run some static check tools (cppcheck and clang) once in a while, but never found any critical issues
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 889 2014-07-29 15:01:33 <aschildbach> saivann: ping
 890 2014-07-29 15:02:32 <wumpus> indeed, same as andytoshi
 891 2014-07-29 15:02:51 <wumpus> and lots of warnings about redundant c_strs, at least we got rid of those now
 892 2014-07-29 15:03:02 <gwillen> the loop-that-is-not-a-loop is curious
 893 2014-07-29 15:03:23 <andytoshi> it appears that multiple unlock keys are supposedly supported but only the first is tried?
 894 2014-07-29 15:03:26 <gwillen> it looks to me like a slapdash bugfix
 895 2014-07-29 15:03:31 <gwillen> yeah, agree
 896 2014-07-29 15:03:34 <wumpus> gwillen: it's a bypassed loop
 897 2014-07-29 15:03:36 <wumpus> right
 898 2014-07-29 15:03:44 <gwillen> it reads to me as though once upon a time there was a bug
 899 2014-07-29 15:03:56 <gwillen> and someone decided the quickest fix to whatever hypothetical bug was just to stop after the first pass
 900 2014-07-29 15:03:58 <wumpus> well it was originally meant to decode and check all keys on unlock
 901 2014-07-29 15:04:07 <wumpus> at least it looks like that
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 903 2014-07-29 15:04:13 <wumpus> and then it was patched to check only one key
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 905 2014-07-29 15:04:31 <gwillen> ohhh, actually
 906 2014-07-29 15:04:34 <wumpus> see also https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/4011
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 908 2014-07-29 15:04:43 <gwillen> so, reading the class, it looks like once upon a time there was a map of decrypted keys, which is now gone
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 910 2014-07-29 15:05:16 <gwillen> wumpus: aha, interesting
 911 2014-07-29 15:05:56 <gwillen> wumpus: anyway, my theory now is that at some point it was switched from "decrypt the keys when unlocking" to "just check that the master key is right, store it, and decrypt the keys later as-needed"
 912 2014-07-29 15:05:58 <wumpus> gmaxwell's change changes it back to the old behavior, the only reason why that pull isn't merged yet is because we're not sure about performance with alrge wallets
 913 2014-07-29 15:06:09 <wumpus> gwillen: yes
 914 2014-07-29 15:06:16 <gwillen> at which point you only need to check the first one
 915 2014-07-29 15:06:27 <gwillen> therefore someone used the most expedient method to only do that
 916 2014-07-29 15:06:42 <gwillen> thus confusing the shit out of all future readers ;-)
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 921 2014-07-29 15:08:25 <sipa> jgarzik: i knew about it, and thought it was weird code, but intentionally only checking one key
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 923 2014-07-29 15:08:35 <sipa> apparently, that was not the intention
 924 2014-07-29 15:08:46 <sipa> which is why as a reviewer you should always comment on weird code :)
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 926 2014-07-29 15:09:00 <jgarzik> yep
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 931 2014-07-29 15:11:11 <wumpus> so we really do want to check all keys on every unlock?
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 933 2014-07-29 15:12:03 <sipa> assuming the performance impact isn't too large
 934 2014-07-29 15:12:35 <sipa> openssl isn't particularly efficient at that; it can probably only do 1000-2000 per second or so
 935 2014-07-29 15:12:43 <sipa> for 100k key wallets, that may be unacceptable
 936 2014-07-29 15:13:07 <wumpus> that was my gut feeling as well
 937 2014-07-29 15:13:29 <wumpus> wallets may be locked and unlocked lots of times, possible before every transaction
 938 2014-07-29 15:13:31 <sipa> iirc libsecp256k1 does 5000 per second or so
 939 2014-07-29 15:13:48 <sipa> wumpus: oh!
 940 2014-07-29 15:14:00 <sipa> i thought this was in the check master key code, not in the normal unlock code
 941 2014-07-29 15:14:11 <wumpus> sipa: oh I may be making the wrong assumption
 942 2014-07-29 15:14:46 <sipa> wait, my numbers may be completely off, i think i'm confusing things
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 944 2014-07-29 15:14:59 <wumpus> if it's just master keys, what, do we ever have more than one?
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 946 2014-07-29 15:15:50 <sipa> the master key is verified by decrypting + checking the normal keys
 947 2014-07-29 15:16:00 <sipa> and iirc it was that loop that iterated only once
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 949 2014-07-29 15:16:28 <sipa> because, presumably, the master key is correct whenever it is able to correctly decrypt a single key
 950 2014-07-29 15:16:46 <wumpus> CWallet::Unlock calls CCryptoKeyStore::Unlock for every master key
 951 2014-07-29 15:17:10 <sipa> there's only ever one master key
 952 2014-07-29 15:17:12 <gwillen> sipa: that appears to me to be correct, yes
 953 2014-07-29 15:17:35 <sipa> wumpus: maybe the same code is used for normal unlocking
 954 2014-07-29 15:17:43 <gwillen> sipa: it reads to me like once upon a time it decrypted and stored all the keys, and then it was changed to not store them, only to store the master key, and thus it was no longer required to decrypt them all, just to check one
 955 2014-07-29 15:18:28 <sipa> perhaps just add an exhaustive flag to the unlock code, not set it for normal unlocking, but do set it at passphrase checking time
 956 2014-07-29 15:18:36 <wumpus> CWallet::Unlock is the function that is called  by walletpassphrase
 957 2014-07-29 15:18:50 <wumpus> so yes, indirectly it ends up in that loop
 958 2014-07-29 15:19:01 <sipa> oh, right, we do passphrase checking each and every time
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 960 2014-07-29 15:21:26 <jgarzik> at a minimum, it warrants a comment
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 963 2014-07-29 15:23:04 <cfields> gavinandresen: around?
 964 2014-07-29 15:23:24 <gavinandresen> cfields: yes, what's up?
 965 2014-07-29 15:23:31 <wumpus> well also if the goal is to check only one key, it could be written much clearer, but I like the exhaustive flag
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 967 2014-07-29 15:24:59 <wumpus> so it's optional whether to check only the first key of everything, instead of the crazy always bypass
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 969 2014-07-29 15:25:44 <sipa> btw, their CKey detected problem isn't a problem: the default assignment operator is fine, while the default copy constructor wouldn't be
 970 2014-07-29 15:26:02 <sipa> actually, wait
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 973 2014-07-29 15:27:30 <sipa> yup, it is
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1009 2014-07-29 16:17:38 <hearn> Luke-Jr: is your dns seed ok? i'm seeing timeouts trying to do lookups on it
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1052 2014-07-29 16:54:57 <Luke-Jr> hearn: no, it's temporarily down
1053 2014-07-29 16:55:11 <hearn> ok
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1055 2014-07-29 16:55:38 <Luke-Jr> hearn: XO.net likes to null route my server when I run it :/
1056 2014-07-29 16:55:45 <hearn> odd
1057 2014-07-29 16:55:50 <jcorgan> Luke-Jr: you pinged me earlier?
1058 2014-07-29 16:55:51 <Luke-Jr> and is taking forever to answer tickets
1059 2014-07-29 16:56:01 <hearn> do they think it's a botnet coordinator ?
1060 2014-07-29 16:56:31 <Luke-Jr> hearn: something along those lines; I don't have direct access to the ticket since I am not their customer
1061 2014-07-29 16:56:41 <hearn> :(
1062 2014-07-29 16:56:44 <hearn> ok. thanks.
1063 2014-07-29 16:56:56 * hearn -> dinner
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1123 2014-07-29 17:42:47 <jgarzik> sipa, wumpus: dumb question,
1124 2014-07-29 17:42:49 <jgarzik> ERROR: No repository configured. Use this command to set:
1125 2014-07-29 17:42:50 <jgarzik> git config githubmerge.repository <owner>/<repo>
1126 2014-07-29 17:43:09 <jgarzik> why is this needed?  I presumed all that is necessary is a local repo and the pull number.
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1128 2014-07-29 17:44:26 <kazcw> is that with github's git wrapper? local repos don't have pull numbers, do they? so it needs a github upstream to do anything with pull numbers
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1137 2014-07-29 17:55:51 <jgarzik> kazcw, it is sipa's github merge script in contrib/devtools
1138 2014-07-29 17:56:00 * jgarzik does it manually
1139 2014-07-29 17:56:06 <jgarzik> git pull --no-commit
1140 2014-07-29 17:56:16 <jgarzik> + git commit -a -S$keyid
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1144 2014-07-29 18:04:14 <osong> Hi guys, I'm looking to make a ec2 shared-AMI / virtual machine specifically for bitcoin development. I think it might lower the entry barrier for some developers. Besides bitcoin core and the blockchain, what other software packages do you think would be useful to bundle with it?
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1160 2014-07-29 18:18:22 <sipa> jgarzik: it eneds to know which github repository to work on
1161 2014-07-29 18:18:29 <sipa> jgarzik: it doesn't really use your local repo at all
1162 2014-07-29 18:19:01 <jgarzik> sipa, lame :)
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1164 2014-07-29 18:19:40 <jgarzik> osong, stating the obvious perhap, but all dependencies including optional ones like qt
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1166 2014-07-29 18:22:12 <osong> gotcha. Any other things? I haven't actually done any dev on bitcoin core so I don't know, but I'd like to help out.
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1174 2014-07-29 18:29:02 <jgarzik> osong, read through doc/build-unix.md for dependencies discussion.  include everything discussed there.
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1176 2014-07-29 18:29:44 <jgarzik> osong, google for "testnet in a box"  -- that is a useful kit.  being able to get testnet going, for a dev, is probably more important than mainnet IMO
1177 2014-07-29 18:30:04 <jgarzik> osong, you can mine blocks on testnet, experiment with different transaction policies, etc.
1178 2014-07-29 18:31:35 <osong> jgarzik, awesome- will do.
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1239 2014-07-29 19:13:17 <cfields> gavinandresen: full build down to 1 min 42 sec with cache switched on. slight improvement ;)
1240 2014-07-29 19:13:35 <gavinandresen> cfields: sweet!
1241 2014-07-29 19:13:46 <sipa> that's over a 100 seconds! slacker!
1242 2014-07-29 19:13:52 <sipa> i mean: WOW :o
1243 2014-07-29 19:14:04 <cfields> heh
1244 2014-07-29 19:14:51 <cfields> that's if no deps are touched, which will be the case 99% of the time for us. If they're touched, obviously you'll have to add their build-time to that.
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1248 2014-07-29 19:17:36 <BlueMatt> are we defaulting to building deps ourselves now?
1249 2014-07-29 19:17:52 <BlueMatt> that should *only* happen for gitian, not even pull-tester should be doing that, really
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1252 2014-07-29 19:18:34 <cfields> BlueMatt: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/4592
1253 2014-07-29 19:18:54 <cfields> please read the entire description before reaching conclusions.
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1255 2014-07-29 19:19:07 <BlueMatt> yea, sorry, havent had time yet
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1259 2014-07-29 19:19:40 <cfields> np, just trying to avoid some flames
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1263 2014-07-29 19:20:53 <BlueMatt> cfields: that description didnt answer my question...
1264 2014-07-29 19:21:04 <BlueMatt> are the deps built if you dont explicitly ask for them?
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1266 2014-07-29 19:21:33 <cfields> they're built as-needed, then cached. if they're not changed, they're not rebuilt.
1267 2014-07-29 19:21:52 <cfields> on an individual basis, not all-or-nothing
1268 2014-07-29 19:22:05 <BlueMatt> this sounds like very bad practice to me, no?
1269 2014-07-29 19:22:06 <sipa> just cd'ing into the bitcoin directory and ./autogen.sh && configure && make  -> that doesn't use the dependency mechanism at all
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1273 2014-07-29 19:22:24 <BlueMatt> ok, this is what I was asking
1274 2014-07-29 19:22:26 <BlueMatt> sounds good
1275 2014-07-29 19:22:28 <cfields> BlueMatt: no, it ensures that we're testing exactly as gitian builds
1276 2014-07-29 19:22:36 <sipa> you can configure bitcoin to use the dependencies built inside the depends directory, which is really nice for testing
1277 2014-07-29 19:22:52 <BlueMatt> yes, sure, just as long as you have to specifically do it (ie in gitian)
1278 2014-07-29 19:23:33 <sipa> cfields: on what is the checksum in the cache tar's based, actually?
1279 2014-07-29 19:23:33 <cfields> heh, i should just let sipa answer for me. he seems to give the answers want :)
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1282 2014-07-29 19:24:18 <BlueMatt> cfields: or maybe I should make time to read code instead ;)
1283 2014-07-29 19:24:21 Skirmant_ has joined
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1285 2014-07-29 19:24:28 <sipa> maybe i should do the same
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1287 2014-07-29 19:24:54 <cfields> sipa: lots. host + host-toolchain-revision + package-name + package version + package revision + checksum of all recursive dependencies
1288 2014-07-29 19:25:40 <cfields> so for ex if jpeg revision gets bumped, jpeg + qt will be rebuilt, since qt depends on jpeg
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1291 2014-07-29 19:26:10 <randy-waterhouse> like a hash tree?
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1294 2014-07-29 19:26:29 <cfields> yea. but it's not directly related to any build output, it's build metadata
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1299 2014-07-29 19:27:42 <cfields> well, no. there are no real lookups. It's just "do i have this exact dependency built already or not?"
1300 2014-07-29 19:28:24 hmsimha has joined
1301 2014-07-29 19:29:08 <sipa> hmm, where is it computed in the code?
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1304 2014-07-29 19:29:41 <cfields> I'm going to merge the zero-mq branch into mine as an example, since that adds a dependency. Will post a link when it's building so you can see what's going on
1305 2014-07-29 19:30:06 <sipa> $(eval $(1)_build_id:=$(shell echo -n "$($(1)_build_id_long)" | $(build_SHASUM) | cut -c-5))
1306 2014-07-29 19:30:09 <sipa> got it
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1309 2014-07-29 19:30:57 <cfields> right
1310 2014-07-29 19:31:56 <sipa> 5 hex characters... which means 1% collision chance after 150 builds? :)
1311 2014-07-29 19:32:15 <sipa> i doubt we'll ever reach 150
1312 2014-07-29 19:32:28 <cfields> sipa: heh, i meant to bump that up to 8, just forgot
1313 2014-07-29 19:32:56 <cfields> it was taking forever before i realized i was doing something dumb, was hashing a bazillion times per build. There's no reason not to bump it up.
1314 2014-07-29 19:33:21 <sipa> 8 sounds good
1315 2014-07-29 19:33:32 <sipa> or why not more?
1316 2014-07-29 19:33:46 <sipa> (yes, nitpicking)
1317 2014-07-29 19:34:12 <cfields> doesn't matter to me, entirely arbitraty. It's just to hide the long nasty string of deps and revisions. you pick :)
1318 2014-07-29 19:34:35 <sipa> let's make gavin happy and pick 11
1319 2014-07-29 19:34:49 <cfields> heh ok
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1321 2014-07-29 19:35:33 <cfields> i'll probably go ahead and switch it to sha256 too. sha1 was just to speed it up, but it should take no time to hash a handful of strings, no?
1322 2014-07-29 19:35:41 <sipa> indeed
1323 2014-07-29 19:35:56 <sipa> sha1 is perfectly fine for this, but so is sha256
1324 2014-07-29 19:35:58 <cfields> sha256 is used for source checksums, so that'd be one less native tool to use
1325 2014-07-29 19:36:14 <cfields> ok
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1327 2014-07-29 19:37:32 <sipa> if you want to be safe against an upstream package grinding their source release tarball in order to create a collision for us, you'll need more like 32 or more characters
1328 2014-07-29 19:37:34 <Luke-Jr> cfields: might want to collapse identical builds too, if you're not already
1329 2014-07-29 19:38:01 <cfields> Luke-Jr: hmm?
1330 2014-07-29 19:38:18 <sipa> Luke-Jr: define identical builds?
1331 2014-07-29 19:38:38 <cfields> sipa: well, version would be bumped in addition to hash, so that would force a new build anyway
1332 2014-07-29 19:38:40 <Luke-Jr> [19:20:34] <cfields> so for ex if jpeg revision gets bumped, jpeg + qt will be rebuilt, since qt depends on jpeg <-- if the qt build results in the same binary, might as well de-duplicate it
1333 2014-07-29 19:39:09 <sipa> Luke-Jr: you'll still have to do the build to find out
1334 2014-07-29 19:39:15 <Luke-Jr> yes, of course
1335 2014-07-29 19:39:16 <cfields> Luke-Jr: you wouldn't know it results in the same binary until it's built though, at which point it's already cached for next use
1336 2014-07-29 19:39:22 <Luke-Jr> I just mean in the cache
1337 2014-07-29 19:39:28 <sipa> but i guess you could automatically symlink the tarfile if you notice it's identical to another one
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1339 2014-07-29 19:39:41 <sipa> that seems like a very incremental improvement only though
1340 2014-07-29 19:39:49 <sipa> (use a deuping filesystem if you need that!)
1341 2014-07-29 19:39:53 <sipa> *deduping
1342 2014-07-29 19:39:56 <Luke-Jr> well, otherwise we might end up with a ton of qts ☺
1343 2014-07-29 19:39:58 <cfields> the way the cache works, cached results are only saved once built in master
1344 2014-07-29 19:40:11 <cfields> and when master builds, it removes all unused cache entries
1345 2014-07-29 19:40:32 <Luke-Jr> cfields: what about dependencies retained in stable branches?
1346 2014-07-29 19:40:39 <cfields> (that's a travis specific thing)
1347 2014-07-29 19:40:57 <cfields> Luke-Jr: er.. yea. s/master/branch/
1348 2014-07-29 19:41:16 <Luke-Jr> ah, so it's just GC unused stuff
1349 2014-07-29 19:41:21 <cfields> what i mean is: if you PR something with a changed dep, it's not retained in the bitcoin build cache. not until it's actually merged in
1350 2014-07-29 19:41:49 <cfields> then when it's merged in, the unused stuff is nuked
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1352 2014-07-29 19:42:08 <cfields> again, that's all travis-specific stuff
1353 2014-07-29 19:42:08 <sipa> which does mean rebuilding it every time in travis every time the PR is rebased?
1354 2014-07-29 19:42:44 <cfields> that i'm not sure about yet. testing it now.
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1356 2014-07-29 19:42:46 <Luke-Jr> I don't follow, but it sounds simple enough to tweak when/if it becomes a nuisance ;)
1357 2014-07-29 19:42:49 <cfields> likely yes, though
1358 2014-07-29 19:42:53 <sipa> agree
1359 2014-07-29 19:42:56 <cfields> sec, i'll paste their docs
1360 2014-07-29 19:43:00 <sipa> retention policy can be figured out later
1361 2014-07-29 19:43:20 <cfields> http://docs.travis-ci.com/user/caching/
1362 2014-07-29 19:43:33 <cfields> err.. http://docs.travis-ci.com/user/caching/#Fetching-and-storing-caches
1363 2014-07-29 19:44:04 <cfields> "If a branch does not have its own cache yet, it will fetch the master branch cache."
1364 2014-07-29 19:44:33 <sipa> ic
1365 2014-07-29 19:44:36 <cfields> So my guess is, every time you rebase your PR, since that branch won't exist in the bitcoin repo, it'll rebuild your deps that have changed from master
1366 2014-07-29 19:44:46 <sipa> that's fine
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1368 2014-07-29 19:45:02 <sipa> PRs that change dependencies are rare, and typically only just change that dependency
1369 2014-07-29 19:45:47 <cfields> right
1370 2014-07-29 19:46:04 <Luke-Jr> PRs have branches - are those not counted?
1371 2014-07-29 19:46:35 <sipa> they won't have their own caches configured, i guess
1372 2014-07-29 19:46:42 <Luke-Jr> I guess that'd be ugly since they never go away
1373 2014-07-29 19:46:43 <cfields> Luke-Jr: they won't exist in the bitcoin repo, though
1374 2014-07-29 19:46:52 <cfields> so there's no cache associated with em
1375 2014-07-29 19:47:15 <Luke-Jr> cfields: they actually do, but okay
1376 2014-07-29 19:47:28 <cfields> well, only if you attempted to merge luke-jr/foo -> bitcoin/foo, anyway
1377 2014-07-29 19:47:30 <Luke-Jr> (they're just refs/pull/* instead of refs/heads/*)
1378 2014-07-29 19:47:56 <sipa> yeah, github exposes pull requests as a special type of branch at the git level
1379 2014-07-29 19:48:01 <Luke-Jr> cfields: github makes a copy in the main repo
1380 2014-07-29 19:48:31 <cfields> Luke-Jr: ok, i see what you mean, you're right.
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1382 2014-07-29 19:49:20 <cfields> but i assume there's no cache associated with anything that's not in refs/heads
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1388 2014-07-29 19:54:24 <cfields> sipa: could you expand on your upstream tarball + 32char point?
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1404 2014-07-29 20:09:23 <sipa> cfields: if you have pkg A and pkg B (which A depends on), and we want to update A, upstream A could grind their tarball in such a way to make filename of A remain the same, causing us to build with the old B
1405 2014-07-29 20:09:49 <sipa> uh, switched meanings of A and B here
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1407 2014-07-29 20:10:46 <sipa> B gets updated, B upstream can grind to cause A's filename to.remain the same, causing us to use an A that uses the old B
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1410 2014-07-29 20:11:36 <cfields> sipa: the tarball hash isn't used in calculating dependencies, though. In this case, it would be rebuilt because hash(liba-v1-deps...) -> hash(liba-v2-deps...)
1411 2014-07-29 20:11:43 <cfields> or am i still completely missing your point?
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1417 2014-07-29 20:17:13 <sipa> cfields: well the hash has to be used for something... that something can be gamed if a 2nd level dependency releases source code that causes a 1st level hash to remain the same
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1419 2014-07-29 20:17:55 <cfields> sipa: an example. This is bumping zlib to the (non-existent) 1.2.9: http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=A1fGkXrX
1420 2014-07-29 20:18:17 <cfields> and the resulting build-id for libpng, which depends on it
1421 2014-07-29 20:19:11 <sipa> right, so the evil zlib authors could (with 5 digits, trivially) cause the libpng build-id to remain unchanged
1422 2014-07-29 20:19:16 <cfields> it's literally just a hash of the dependency string. no files involved.
1423 2014-07-29 20:19:28 <sipa> ah
1424 2014-07-29 20:19:50 <sipa> i thought the hash of the sources of those dependencies were also used
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1426 2014-07-29 20:21:20 <cfields> nope, i didn't see any point. If we're bumping the version, the hash will change. And we have to bump the version to fetch the correct file.
1427 2014-07-29 20:21:54 <sipa> yup, got it
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1431 2014-07-29 20:23:37 <cfields> is there anything particularly unsafe about that, you think? It seems very naive, but I can't come up with an example of where it wouldn't work as intended
1432 2014-07-29 20:23:49 <sipa> seems fine to me
1433 2014-07-29 20:24:18 <cfields> the only realistic problem is changing a recipe and forgetting to bump the revision, but it'll be obvious when it doesn't actually rebuild
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1436 2014-07-29 20:24:53 <sipa> how about using the hash of the entire recipe file?
1437 2014-07-29 20:25:18 <cfields> hmm, interesting
1438 2014-07-29 20:25:42 <sipa> of course, to do it completely it would need to be recursive
1439 2014-07-29 20:25:49 <sipa> which complicates things, i guess
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1441 2014-07-29 20:26:18 <cfields> not too bad, the deps are already recursive
1442 2014-07-29 20:26:44 ValicekB has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
1443 2014-07-29 20:26:56 <sipa> it would also cause pain if you introduce a dependency cycle (but i guess that's already painful...)
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1445 2014-07-29 20:27:14 <cfields> i'll think on that. I like it, just need to make sure there are not legit use-cases for touching without bumping
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1450 2014-07-29 20:30:40 <sipa> what if you want to change a patch used for a particular package, but not its source code?
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1454 2014-07-29 20:33:33 <sipa> it'd be nice if we could avoid needing to invent our own version numbers for patched versions of dependencies
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1456 2014-07-29 20:33:47 <cfields> yea, so you'd have to hash the patches themselves too
1457 2014-07-29 20:34:42 <cfields> you could do post-extracted and post-patched hash, but that's pretty nasty
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1460 2014-07-29 20:36:04 <cfields> well, it would be easy enough to make patching into a function rather than loose comands. so $(package)_patches+=foo.patch
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1463 2014-07-29 20:36:38 <sipa> and then require that if you change the patch, you must change its name?
1464 2014-07-29 20:37:00 <cfields> no, then we'd know the exact names, so we could hash the contents
1465 2014-07-29 20:37:23 <sipa> ah, that'd be nice
1466 2014-07-29 20:37:55 <cfields> and they'd be applied automatically, they'd just have to conform to a -p1 or something uniform
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1468 2014-07-29 20:38:17 <sipa> i mean, it's overkill probably, but i like the idea of using hashtrees everywhere we can just to give a "this caching will never break"
1469 2014-07-29 20:38:26 <sipa> we're bitcoin right; hash trees is what we do :p
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1471 2014-07-29 20:38:45 <cfields> heh
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1473 2014-07-29 20:39:08 <cfields> well, that's very much my intention. so the concern is exactly correct, imo
1474 2014-07-29 20:39:17 <cfields> i want to do it once, set it in place, then forget about it
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1478 2014-07-29 20:40:51 <cfields> thanks for helping think it through. i think that's the way to go. I'll start working it up
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1480 2014-07-29 20:41:29 <randy-waterhouse> it'll be applicable for other projects also ...
1481 2014-07-29 20:41:39 <cfields> mm, sec
1482 2014-07-29 20:41:39 <randy-waterhouse> it's worth doing properly
1483 2014-07-29 20:41:48 <cfields> sha256(patch file)
1484 2014-07-29 20:41:58 <cfields> will line-endings come into play on stupid platforms?
1485 2014-07-29 20:42:26 mapppum has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
1486 2014-07-29 20:43:17 <sipa> does git do any automatic line ending translation?
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1488 2014-07-29 20:43:50 <sipa> it has a autocrlf setting
1489 2014-07-29 20:44:21 <cfields> hmm, i suppose the real question is:
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1491 2014-07-29 20:44:32 <cfields> does it matter if hashes match between platforms?
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1493 2014-07-29 20:44:40 <sipa> probably not
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1498 2014-07-29 20:47:05 <cfields> Ok, here's a real live example: https://github.com/coryfields/bitcoin/pull/2
1499 2014-07-29 20:47:42 <cfields> pull 1 merged in the deps, so pull 2 is as-if it's a real pull req against master after deps are merged
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1505 2014-07-29 20:53:09 <sipa> cfields: i guess, basically, that build-id becomes defined as hash(recipe) + foreach(dependency) hash(dependency.buildid) + foreach(patch) hash(contents(patch)) ?
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1507 2014-07-29 20:53:59 <sipa> and use full sha256, won't hurt :)
1508 2014-07-29 20:54:12 <cfields> sounds about right
1509 2014-07-29 20:54:24 <cfields> there are a few others that will need the same treatment
1510 2014-07-29 20:54:24 <sipa> or you could use abbreviated buildids in the filenames, but compute them in full internally
1511 2014-07-29 20:54:37 <cfields> toolchain/main makefile/etc
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1513 2014-07-29 20:55:15 <sipa> right, for every source you depend on, either include its (recursive) hash, or require the recipe to commit to that hash
1514 2014-07-29 20:55:17 <cfields> for example, i tested last night doing an entire static lto build
1515 2014-07-29 20:55:33 <cfields> which requires adding some cflags/ldflags globally
1516 2014-07-29 20:56:15 <cfields> yep, makes sense
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1518 2014-07-29 20:56:29 <sipa> which i guess leads to the policy that you cannot refer to any filename in your recipe
1519 2014-07-29 20:56:43 <sipa> except those that are part of sources, for which you have a hash
1520 2014-07-29 20:57:01 <cfields> not a problem, each build is an island
1521 2014-07-29 20:57:14 <cfields> before each build, the prefix is wiped, and the dependencies are installed
1522 2014-07-29 20:57:18 <sipa> well, right now, patches violate that policy
1523 2014-07-29 20:57:30 <cfields> if it's not a (recursive) dependency, the files don't exist
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1530 2014-07-29 20:57:53 <cfields> eh.. sorta, yea. i see your point.
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1535 2014-07-29 21:01:35 <cfields> about the only work-around i can think of is for extra files to be copied into the extracted dir, and not allow for any kind of global patch dir to be used
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1537 2014-07-29 21:02:03 <cfields> not a big fan of littering the srcroot, but i doubt there's any real consequence
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1554 2014-07-29 21:20:57 <jcorgan> cfields: do you have a link to your zmq bug report upstream?
1555 2014-07-29 21:21:51 <cfields> jcorgan: is that a cleverly disguised reminder? :p
1556 2014-07-29 21:21:59 <jcorgan> heh, no
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1558 2014-07-29 21:22:14 <jcorgan> i thought you said you submitted an upstream bug
1559 2014-07-29 21:22:21 <cfields> i didn't get around to it last night, i can whip one up though
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1561 2014-07-29 21:22:43 <jcorgan> no hurry from me
1562 2014-07-29 21:22:46 <cfields> jcorgan: nah, i saw the amount of outstanding build-related bugs at their tracker and decided it probably wouldn't go anywhere without a connection
1563 2014-07-29 21:23:41 weilu has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
1564 2014-07-29 21:23:54 <jcorgan> from your description it is hard to see how it hasn't affected anyone else
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1568 2014-07-29 21:25:06 <cfields> jcorgan: tbh i'm not sure what the conditions are that trigger it. locally, it builds fine with gcc
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1571 2014-07-29 21:25:28 <randy-waterhouse> what's the bug?
1572 2014-07-29 21:26:01 <cfields> so my best guess is that gcc added a heuristic at some point to figure out that it needs to be linked as c++
1573 2014-07-29 21:26:10 <cfields> jcorgan: ah right, randy-waterhouse is way better suited for this one :)
1574 2014-07-29 21:26:11 <jcorgan> ic
1575 2014-07-29 21:26:21 <cfields> randy-waterhouse: sec
1576 2014-07-29 21:26:28 <randy-waterhouse> zmq
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1579 2014-07-29 21:27:38 <jcorgan> but this only affects building zmq from scratch; there's no reason for this to hold up merging the bitcoin feature PR?
1580 2014-07-29 21:27:40 hmsimha has joined
1581 2014-07-29 21:27:49 <cfields> randy-waterhouse: bottom line: libtool+automake. compile a .c and link it with a convenience library that's mostly c++. Link fails because it uses gcc and doesn't pull in std libs
1582 2014-07-29 21:27:59 <earlz> is there an RPC call to empty or clear a wallet?
1583 2014-07-29 21:28:05 <cfields> jcorgan: no, not at all
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1585 2014-07-29 21:28:11 <earlz> Something better than deleting wallet.dat and restarting the daemon
1586 2014-07-29 21:28:24 <randy-waterhouse> i know that one
1587 2014-07-29 21:28:43 <randy-waterhouse> gcc defaults to preprocessor when .c files are in the lib
1588 2014-07-29 21:28:56 <cfields> randy-waterhouse: my suggestion was for upstream to just .c -> .cpp. Not sure if it makes sense to override the tag instead
1589 2014-07-29 21:29:18 <randy-waterhouse> libtool settings for preprocessor are different to c++ straight
1590 2014-07-29 21:29:55 <cfields> randy-waterhouse: https://s3.amazonaws.com/archive.travis-ci.org/jobs/31090124/log.txt
1591 2014-07-29 21:30:01 <randy-waterhouse> best not to mix them in my experience
1592 2014-07-29 21:30:29 gjj has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1593 2014-07-29 21:30:32 <cfields> grep for std::nothrow
1594 2014-07-29 21:30:51 <sipa> earlz: nope
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1601 2014-07-29 21:36:04 <randy-waterhouse> hmmm, not the obvious one
1602 2014-07-29 21:36:48 <randy-waterhouse> though configure throws a warning configure: WARNING: if you wanted to set the --build type, don't use --host.     If a cross compiler is detected then cross compile mode will be used
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1604 2014-07-29 21:37:36 <randy-waterhouse> but if it works fine on other platforms
1605 2014-07-29 21:37:43 sabfer has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1606 2014-07-29 21:37:46 <randy-waterhouse> ... most likely the libtool flags
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1608 2014-07-29 21:38:01 <randy-waterhouse> are being set different between the .c and .cpp parts
1609 2014-07-29 21:38:20 <randy-waterhouse> usually -fPIC or something gets lost
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1613 2014-07-29 21:40:20 <randy-waterhouse> libtool behaviour does vary across platforms ...
1614 2014-07-29 21:40:21 <cfields> randy-waterhouse: it's a c++ lib that's being compiled with gcc. I think it's as simple as not using g++ as it should.
1615 2014-07-29 21:40:46 <randy-waterhouse> the actual file is keygne.c ?
1616 2014-07-29 21:40:50 <randy-waterhouse> keygen.c
1617 2014-07-29 21:40:50 <cfields> ie set it's tag to CXX and it should work, i'd think
1618 2014-07-29 21:40:52 <cfields> yes
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1620 2014-07-29 21:41:13 <randy-waterhouse> is it a .cpp code?
1621 2014-07-29 21:41:58 <randy-waterhouse> i'll have a look
1622 2014-07-29 21:42:02 <cfields> no, it's .c. But the convenience library is cpp.
1623 2014-07-29 21:42:19 <cfields> er, "no, it's c".
1624 2014-07-29 21:42:29 <randy-waterhouse> yeah
1625 2014-07-29 21:42:47 <randy-waterhouse> it's a special little .c lib they attached at the end
1626 2014-07-29 21:43:15 <randy-waterhouse> looks pokey
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1637 2014-07-29 21:52:08 <randy-waterhouse> hmmm, which version of zmq has a keygen?
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1648 2014-07-29 22:03:29 <randy-waterhouse> in fact its just a little tool bitcoin will never use ...
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1650 2014-07-29 22:05:55 <cfields> randy-waterhouse: which is why i promptly forgot about reporting it upstream: https://github.com/theuni/bitcoin/commit/25844d3c6fcac8900aa68487f2dae0b3141f3ab6
1651 2014-07-29 22:06:04 <randy-waterhouse> heh
1652 2014-07-29 22:06:19 Swadq has quit (Quit: Swadq)
1653 2014-07-29 22:06:38 <randy-waterhouse> sigh ... fix it for them anyway?
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1655 2014-07-29 22:07:30 <cfields> really should :)
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1657 2014-07-29 22:07:37 <cfields> if you don't feel like it i'll get to it at some point
1658 2014-07-29 22:07:53 <sipa> at least report it :)
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1661 2014-07-29 22:08:31 <randy-waterhouse> quick look then
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1666 2014-07-29 22:12:07 <randy-waterhouse> oh it looks like its outputting a generated bash script
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1668 2014-07-29 22:12:18 <randy-waterhouse> heh didn't expect that
1669 2014-07-29 22:14:29 <randy-waterhouse> cute
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1686 2014-07-29 22:31:43 <cfields> sipa: ah, there's no need to recurse for dependencies. each build-id contains its dependenies' build-id's, which already contain their hashed files
1687 2014-07-29 22:32:47 <sipa> well, that's what i meant by recursing :)
1688 2014-07-29 22:33:29 <sipa> or rather, when i suggested including dependant's build ids, that would replace explicit recursing
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1694 2014-07-29 22:37:57 <sipa> cfields: anyway, sounds perfect
1695 2014-07-29 22:38:25 <jcorgan> randy-waterhouse: sipa: http://rfc.zeromq.org/spec:26
1696 2014-07-29 22:38:32 <sipa> that way you also get whatever else is later added to buildid computations (like patch hashes)
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1698 2014-07-29 22:39:55 <sipa> ah, curve25519
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1700 2014-07-29 22:40:16 <randy-waterhouse> jcorgan: but i don't think the curve_keygen will be used except manually inside the tools dir?
1701 2014-07-29 22:40:34 <randy-waterhouse> the build output is a bash script ...
1702 2014-07-29 22:40:44 <randy-waterhouse> wrapped, linked
1703 2014-07-29 22:41:47 <randy-waterhouse> but it looks interesting never-the-less
1704 2014-07-29 22:41:57 <randy-waterhouse> even if it is screwing up our dep builds
1705 2014-07-29 22:42:23 <sipa> randy-waterhouse: yeah, the problem was that we were even unnecessarily building, afaik
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1709 2014-07-29 22:43:55 <jcorgan> i don't have any experience with the crypto facilities in zmq
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1716 2014-07-29 22:46:07 <randy-waterhouse> jcorgan: they are new features ... well recent anway
1717 2014-07-29 22:46:42 <cfields> heh, our problem was already fixed upstream
1718 2014-07-29 22:46:48 * cfields dusts of his hands for a job well done
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1720 2014-07-29 22:47:16 <cfields> https://github.com/zeromq/libzmq/commit/b50ed02a20ea51669db0f5e34d2edfe2ca8bf280
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1727 2014-07-29 22:52:37 <jcorgan> nice find
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1733 2014-07-29 23:00:28 <Luke-Jr> cfields: you're involved in zeromq?
1734 2014-07-29 23:00:53 <cfields> Luke-Jr: no, just ran into a bug when building it
1735 2014-07-29 23:00:58 <Luke-Jr> ah
1736 2014-07-29 23:01:28 <Luke-Jr> ironically, their 4.x branch doesn't build because of that fix (backported improperly? I can't tell what's wrong with it)
1737 2014-07-29 23:01:52 <cfields> hah
1738 2014-07-29 23:02:20 <cfields> well, i didn't actually try building it with the fix. but it's the same fix i would've submitted to them
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1741 2014-07-29 23:04:26 <Luke-Jr> or maybe this issue is fixed with the same patch. automake is for some reason looking for the .cpp despite .c everywhere on that file
1742 2014-07-29 23:05:05 <Luke-Jr> more annoyingly to me, it seems the security stuff is totally broken on ARM
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1758 2014-07-29 23:27:36 <cfields> Luke-Jr: there are tons of build-system bug-reports
1759 2014-07-29 23:27:41 <cfields> Luke-Jr: lots of ac_try_run
1760 2014-07-29 23:27:59 <cfields> i wouldn't be surprised if lots of things were just needlessly disabled on arm
1761 2014-07-29 23:28:05 <Luke-Jr> :x
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