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  45 2014-07-30 00:56:22 <cfields> BlueMatt: ping
  46 2014-07-30 00:56:39 <BlueMatt> pong
  47 2014-07-30 00:57:22 <cfields> could i get some help trying to build the comparison tool?
  48 2014-07-30 00:58:00 <BlueMatt> heh, probably not but I'll try ;)
  49 2014-07-30 00:58:18 <cfields> translation: where do i start?
  50 2014-07-30 00:58:18 <cfields> :)
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  52 2014-07-30 01:00:16 <BlueMatt> I think I was too lazy and never made a maven file for it, but if you just throw bitcoinj in some java ide and tell it to make a jar with BitcoindComparisonTool as the main class, you should be good
  53 2014-07-30 01:01:14 <cfields> well, as someone who knows nothing of java, where should i start with building it from cli?
  54 2014-07-30 01:02:34 <BlueMatt> hmm....
  55 2014-07-30 01:03:00 <BlueMatt> if you want a runnable jar...have fun, its been a long while since Ive done that (should be able to build all, then zip it up and add a MANIFEST_MF thinggy)
  56 2014-07-30 01:04:37 <cfields> mm
  57 2014-07-30 01:04:56 <cfields> would you be interested in helping out? This will be one of the last pieces needed to replace the pull-tester
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  67 2014-07-30 01:12:16 <sipa> cfields: if you just want to test, there's a .jar available
  68 2014-07-30 01:12:33 <sipa> i've never gotten around to building it myself either, though
  69 2014-07-30 01:12:36 <cfields> sipa: i want to build it as a dependency
  70 2014-07-30 01:12:52 <sipa> oh.. of course!
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  72 2014-07-30 01:13:08 <cfields> i've got it as a jar for testing, but makes perfect sense to have it modifiable
  73 2014-07-30 01:13:29 <cfields> sipa: heh, wtf are you up?
  74 2014-07-30 01:13:39 <sipa> can't sleep
  75 2014-07-30 01:14:16 <cfields> ah
  76 2014-07-30 01:15:18 <cfields> sipa: i know you've described some alternatives to BitcoindComparisonTool. Do you think it's worth hacking the current one to work for now? Or working on something else instead?
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  78 2014-07-30 01:15:40 <sipa> cfields: define 'to work' ?
  79 2014-07-30 01:16:41 <cfields> sipa: either shoving the jar into git (which would likely result in an infinite flamewar), or get it to build as a dependency. Either way, running as it currently does with current behavior
  80 2014-07-30 01:17:00 <sipa> the jar can be a 'source' in your package system
  81 2014-07-30 01:17:09 <sipa> with a known URL and hash
  82 2014-07-30 01:17:14 <cfields> hmmm
  83 2014-07-30 01:17:47 <cfields> now that seems perfectly reasonable :)
  84 2014-07-30 01:18:13 <sipa> i don't think it should be hard to build either, once you figure out how to build bitcoinj from cli
  85 2014-07-30 01:18:42 <cfields> ok
  86 2014-07-30 01:19:27 <cfields> but, grabbing it from a url and installing sounds perfect for now, to avoid having to build it as a blocker for the pull-tester stuff
  87 2014-07-30 01:19:33 <cfields> then building as a next step
  88 2014-07-30 01:19:47 <sipa> i know i could build executable .jar files from the cli when i was a student (including loadable .so files and everything), but i haven't done any java since (which was in 2005-6 or so)
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  90 2014-07-30 01:20:56 <cfields> mm, that's more than me. I've built, but only when it was a simple automated command away
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  92 2014-07-30 01:22:05 <sipa> but yeah, i'd like a network-rule-agnostic comparison tool... with some scripting language to construct the blocks, and either tell it to compare the behaviour of two separate nodes, or tell it directly what the observed behaviour should be
  93 2014-07-30 01:22:36 <cfields> right
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  97 2014-07-30 01:24:01 <cfields> well, your suggestion gets me over the hump for feature parity. so i'll do that for now, and we can move forward from there
  98 2014-07-30 01:24:04 <cfields> tyvm
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 100 2014-07-30 01:24:22 <sipa> yw
 101 2014-07-30 01:25:52 <cfields> besides, the new tester won't be spamming on failures anymore. So even if the comparisontool is showing false negatives, our mailboxes will get a break
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 106 2014-07-30 01:26:43 <sipa> is there a way to run travis ourselves, btw?
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 108 2014-07-30 01:27:19 <cfields> mm, kinda
 109 2014-07-30 01:27:34 chax has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
 110 2014-07-30 01:27:58 <cfields> the caching requires a special account, so free accounts will rebuild fully each time
 111 2014-07-30 01:28:01 <sipa> because we do have hardware to run something like that on
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 113 2014-07-30 01:28:58 <cfields> imo that's a bad idea. I've talked about it with wumpus and gavinandresen some.
 114 2014-07-30 01:29:05 <cfields> i'd rather let the pro's handle it
 115 2014-07-30 01:29:09 <cfields> however
 116 2014-07-30 01:29:17 <sipa> well, one does not exclude the other
 117 2014-07-30 01:29:21 <cfields> of course it's all generic enough that anyone can setup their own
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 120 2014-07-30 01:29:54 <cfields> sure
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 122 2014-07-30 01:30:24 <cfields> it'd be trivial to teach jenkins to use the same process.
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 128 2014-07-30 01:34:30 <cfields> sipa / BlueMatt: is the jar at https://github.com/TheBlueMatt/test-scripts at all current? Or should I grab it off of the current tester?
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 130 2014-07-30 01:35:38 <cfields> bbl
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 132 2014-07-30 01:36:28 <BlueMatt> cfields: ummmm....look at the timestamp
 133 2014-07-30 01:36:49 <sipa> the one on pulltester is from august 2012...
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 136 2014-07-30 01:38:12 <sipa> oh no, october 2013
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 139 2014-07-30 01:39:40 <sipa> cfields: the one on pulltester is binary identical with the one in that repo
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 142 2014-07-30 01:40:53 <sipa> cfields: it's not a single file though
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 146 2014-07-30 01:44:33 <BlueMatt> sipa: thanks for checking
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 158 2014-07-30 01:56:01 <cfields> sipa: mm, right, i'll fetch the necessary ones. Thanks for verifying
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 213 2014-07-30 03:23:24 <earlz> Is it possible that bitcoind will ever use 2 change transactions?
 214 2014-07-30 03:23:38 <earlz> for 1 transaction to a single address
 215 2014-07-30 03:23:49 <dsnrk> why do you think that is needed?
 216 2014-07-30 03:24:21 <earlz> I'm not saying it's needed. just making sure my thinking is correct
 217 2014-07-30 03:24:25 <dsnrk> that would just needlessly pollute the UTXO.
 218 2014-07-30 03:24:42 <pigeons> you can just manually create another output
 219 2014-07-30 03:24:42 <earlz> that's what I was thinking. so no, correct?
 220 2014-07-30 03:24:45 <dsnrk> it's possible, sure, but it's not needed. if you have to break up big outputs that's a manual task.
 221 2014-07-30 03:24:49 <sipa> you mean 2 change outputs? no it doesn't do that currently, but it may be useful for privacy
 222 2014-07-30 03:25:09 <Luke-Jr> dsnrk: I wouldn't rule it out for the future.
 223 2014-07-30 03:25:16 <earlz> And also there is no good way (without dropping down to raw) to set the change address of a transaction, right?
 224 2014-07-30 03:25:42 <Luke-Jr> earlz: it's not a useful thing to do, so no.
 225 2014-07-30 03:25:44 <pigeons> earlz turn on advanced features/coincontrol and you can do it in bitcoin-qt
 226 2014-07-30 03:25:49 <earlz> Best bet for accounting is sending the transaction, then checking it after the fact to determine what the change address is (ie, by filtering out the address(s) you sent to)
 227 2014-07-30 03:25:56 <earlz> eh, using pure RPC though
 228 2014-07-30 03:25:57 <Luke-Jr> pigeons: doesn't make it a *good* way :P
 229 2014-07-30 03:26:01 <pigeons> :)
 230 2014-07-30 03:26:11 <dsnrk> Luke-Jr: lets get idiots like bc.i using change addresses before we try and do two.
 231 2014-07-30 03:26:14 <Luke-Jr> earlz: there should never be any need to touch change addresses
 232 2014-07-30 03:26:47 <earlz> In counting unspent outputs I need to account for change to make sure it's not counted
 233 2014-07-30 03:26:58 <pigeons> ?
 234 2014-07-30 03:27:01 <dsnrk> what
 235 2014-07-30 03:27:02 TheSeven has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
 236 2014-07-30 03:27:02 <Luke-Jr> you shouldn't be counting unspent outputs unless you're writing a wallet
 237 2014-07-30 03:27:31 * Luke-Jr looks around for the cluebat
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 240 2014-07-30 03:28:05 <earlz> Well despite the warning last night about never reusing addresses, reused addresses is something I must account for, so I have to manually account for them by using listunspent
 241 2014-07-30 03:28:12 <dsnrk> Luke-Jr: it's OK man, don't worry about private keys. blockchain.info has an API that returns a private key for you.
 242 2014-07-30 03:28:18 <earlz> lmfao
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 244 2014-07-30 03:28:46 <Luke-Jr> earlz: listreceivedbyaddress does that
 245 2014-07-30 03:29:03 <pigeons> but why do you care if they are change
 246 2014-07-30 03:29:25 <pigeons> what's the diffrence between your change and any other unspents
 247 2014-07-30 03:29:34 <earlz> yea, but if you spend the funds out of the reused address, listreceived will not be accurate
 248 2014-07-30 03:29:52 <Luke-Jr> earlz: funds aren't held in addresses; listreceived is always accurate
 249 2014-07-30 03:30:04 <earlz> yea, I'm kinda seeing your point. My internal account would basically just never need to account for change because it's not a relevant address
 250 2014-07-30 03:30:19 <pigeons> sure its relevant.
 251 2014-07-30 03:30:39 <earlz> I send 1 BTC to X, then the unspent txo to X is spent, listreceived will still say X is 1
 252 2014-07-30 03:30:48 <dsnrk> that's correct.
 253 2014-07-30 03:31:08 <dsnrk> the address still received 1 BTC, no matter what happened with it after that.
 254 2014-07-30 03:31:18 <Luke-Jr> earlz: the unspent txo is not "to X"
 255 2014-07-30 03:31:28 <Luke-Jr> earlz: the unspent txo is just in the wallet. unrelated to X.
 256 2014-07-30 03:31:44 <Luke-Jr> the address received 1 BTC, but the unspent txo is not related to that afterward
 257 2014-07-30 03:32:02 <earlz> I feel like we're splitting hairs here. Somehow, I need to know with the private key to X, how many coins I can get out of the network
 258 2014-07-30 03:32:31 <dsnrk> it's a very important distinction really.
 259 2014-07-30 03:32:48 andytoshi has left ("you don't care about keys either unless you're writing a wallet")
 260 2014-07-30 03:33:08 <Luke-Jr> earlz: private keys and addresses are distinct. only wallet software should ever care about keys.
 261 2014-07-30 03:33:37 <earlz> sure at a low enough level...
 262 2014-07-30 03:33:45 crunk-juice has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 263 2014-07-30 03:33:51 <Luke-Jr> earlz: if you insist on doing stupid things the wrong way, please leave, rather than making the channel useless by scaring off other bitcoin devs who know what they're talking about.
 264 2014-07-30 03:34:04 <Luke-Jr> (and don't complain when you lose all your bitcoins)
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 267 2014-07-30 03:34:32 <dsnrk> don't complain when you lose *other people's* bitcoins either, which is probably more the issue.
 268 2014-07-30 03:35:06 <Luke-Jr> dsnrk: true
 269 2014-07-30 03:35:56 <LooseLarry> is there a maximum to how many public keys the bitcoin wallet can handle
 270 2014-07-30 03:35:58 <earlz> you can't just blackhole people that accidentally sent to the (once good) address accidentally. Address reuse isn't "good", but until some more advanced technologies like HD seeds are more prevalent, it's what many services must deal with
 271 2014-07-30 03:35:59 <LooseLarry> before it breaks down ?
 272 2014-07-30 03:36:26 <LooseLarry> I mean, if I have 500,000 public keys/addresses on my wallet
 273 2014-07-30 03:36:30 <LooseLarry> is that a problem ?
 274 2014-07-30 03:36:45 <dsnrk> yes. it's not designed for that.
 275 2014-07-30 03:36:55 <Luke-Jr> earlz: whether you have to deal with it or not, you're still doing it wrong
 276 2014-07-30 03:37:17 <LooseLarry> dsnrk,  these exchanges, and places that give out public keys to new users
 277 2014-07-30 03:37:23 <LooseLarry> how do they handle that ?
 278 2014-07-30 03:37:25 <LooseLarry> multiple wallets?
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 280 2014-07-30 03:37:32 <dsnrk> first of all they give out addresses, not public keys.
 281 2014-07-30 03:37:34 <LooseLarry> what would you say is a safe limit
 282 2014-07-30 03:37:38 <LooseLarry> hmm
 283 2014-07-30 03:37:40 <Luke-Jr> LooseLarry: discard old keys after you've used them
 284 2014-07-30 03:37:43 <LooseLarry> addresses? are not public keys ?
 285 2014-07-30 03:37:51 <Luke-Jr> LooseLarry: no, they're opaque identifiers
 286 2014-07-30 03:37:53 <LooseLarry> I thought when I call getNewAddress
 287 2014-07-30 03:37:56 <dsnrk> usually they have their own wallet systems, they don't use the bitcoin core wallets.
 288 2014-07-30 03:37:59 <justusranvier> LooseLarry: There are some bitcoin walet implementations that don't have a problem handling half a million addresses
 289 2014-07-30 03:38:02 <LooseLarry> and it sends back via RPC a new address
 290 2014-07-30 03:38:04 <LooseLarry> that's a public key
 291 2014-07-30 03:38:07 <Luke-Jr> LooseLarry: no
 292 2014-07-30 03:38:08 <LooseLarry> it's not?
 293 2014-07-30 03:38:09 <dsnrk> LooseLarry: yes, but an address is *not* a public key, they are a hash of a public key.
 294 2014-07-30 03:38:16 <dsnrk> big difference.
 295 2014-07-30 03:38:21 <justusranvier> btcwallet being one of them
 296 2014-07-30 03:38:25 <Luke-Jr> LooseLarry: version 1 addresses are *implemented using* ECDSA keypairs, but they are not *equivalent* to them
 297 2014-07-30 03:38:26 <LooseLarry> dsnrk - I see
 298 2014-07-30 03:38:43 <LooseLarry> dsnrk, so if I call getnewaddress via RPC against the wallet 50,000 times?
 299 2014-07-30 03:38:50 crunk-juice has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
 300 2014-07-30 03:38:50 <LooseLarry> that's not 50,000 new public keys, that's 50,000 addresses
 301 2014-07-30 03:38:57 <dsnrk> LooseLarry: you'll turn it to treacle.
 302 2014-07-30 03:38:57 <LooseLarry> ok- then my question needs to be updated heh-
 303 2014-07-30 03:39:10 <LooseLarry> is it okay to have 50,000 addresses (recieve) ?
 304 2014-07-30 03:39:14 <LooseLarry> for a wallet?
 305 2014-07-30 03:39:20 <Luke-Jr> LooseLarry: if you're doing 50,000 transactions at any given time, then the blockchain won't work for you
 306 2014-07-30 03:39:23 <dsnrk> no, the client will crawl and probably won't work at all.
 307 2014-07-30 03:39:25 <LooseLarry> I see the wallet .DAT grow ABOUT 4k per 4 addresses.
 308 2014-07-30 03:39:38 <LooseLarry> Luke-Jr - it's just to handle giving a new user a public address
 309 2014-07-30 03:39:43 <Luke-Jr> LooseLarry: Bitcoin Core cannot handle high volume
 310 2014-07-30 03:39:43 <LooseLarry> so they can deposit etc
 311 2014-07-30 03:39:52 ebfull has joined
 312 2014-07-30 03:40:06 <Luke-Jr> LooseLarry: also, you really don't want to make addresses public
 313 2014-07-30 03:40:08 <dsnrk> if you are working with 50k addresses, bitcoind is not the wallet you are looking for.
 314 2014-07-30 03:40:09 <LooseLarry> well there are sites out there that have thousands of users - each user gets a public address
 315 2014-07-30 03:40:21 <dsnrk> sure, I can say for a fact they don't use bitcoind.
 316 2014-07-30 03:40:27 <LooseLarry> I figure they have genearted thousands of addresses - question is, it it from many wallets
 317 2014-07-30 03:40:31 <Luke-Jr> LooseLarry: that's doing it wrong. each *deposit* should get an address given *only* to the depositer
 318 2014-07-30 03:40:33 <LooseLarry> dsnrk - really.
 319 2014-07-30 03:40:34 <LooseLarry> interesting
 320 2014-07-30 03:40:46 <LooseLarry> Luke- yeah, only to the depositer
 321 2014-07-30 03:40:47 <LooseLarry> right
 322 2014-07-30 03:40:52 <LooseLarry> same page.
 323 2014-07-30 03:40:57 <Luke-Jr> LooseLarry: point is you make a new address for every deposit, not every user
 324 2014-07-30 03:41:10 <Luke-Jr> they make 2 deposits, they use 2 addresses
 325 2014-07-30 03:41:12 <LooseLarry> Luke, I see your point, to do it properly
 326 2014-07-30 03:41:20 <LooseLarry> each transaction ideally having it's own address
 327 2014-07-30 03:41:22 Swadq has joined
 328 2014-07-30 03:41:33 <Luke-Jr> LooseLarry: you can also discard used keys this way
 329 2014-07-30 03:41:35 ericmuyser has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 330 2014-07-30 03:41:36 <LooseLarry> so then, how do these sites that handle thousands of addresses do it?
 331 2014-07-30 03:41:44 <LooseLarry> they are not using a wallet daemon to process?
 332 2014-07-30 03:41:54 <dsnrk> they have their own external wallet which connects to the core daemon.
 333 2014-07-30 03:42:09 ericmuyser has joined
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 335 2014-07-30 03:43:02 <dsnrk> LooseLarry: that's not really an assumption you can make today. wallets support "address books" with static addresses. not keeping past keys will cause major butthurt.
 336 2014-07-30 03:43:08 <dsnrk> er, Luke-Jr ^^
 337 2014-07-30 03:43:31 <Luke-Jr> dsnrk: really? what wallets still have address book nonsense?
 338 2014-07-30 03:43:59 <LooseLarry> so, if I have 5,000 users, and want to give each a new address each time they want to make a payment or deposit etc...
 339 2014-07-30 03:44:11 <LooseLarry> I should not call getnewaddress on the wallet d
 340 2014-07-30 03:44:40 <earlz> What is the reference wallet good for if "the correct way" causes it to break heh
 341 2014-07-30 03:44:53 <Luke-Jr> earlz: stability?
 342 2014-07-30 03:44:57 <dsnrk> earlz: it's a wallet for users, not for services.
 343 2014-07-30 03:45:04 <Luke-Jr> indeed
 344 2014-07-30 03:45:07 <earlz> eh, good point I guess
 345 2014-07-30 03:45:13 <LooseLarry> I see
 346 2014-07-30 03:45:17 <Luke-Jr> services are expected to budget for the wallet sw they require
 347 2014-07-30 03:45:18 <LooseLarry> what is used for services?
 348 2014-07-30 03:45:24 <Luke-Jr> or at least outsource to someone who does
 349 2014-07-30 03:45:27 <Luke-Jr> hence BitPay
 350 2014-07-30 03:45:44 <dsnrk> earlz: bitcoin core is meant to be the rock solid, never changing foundation for users. not high speed, play fast and break everything.
 351 2014-07-30 03:45:53 <LooseLarry> well - back to my original question though, will a wallet support 1 million addresses ?
 352 2014-07-30 03:45:56 <earlz> I remember a while back everyone saying it's crazy to run critical services on non-reference wallets, due to almost every one of them forking at some point. I assume that's less of a problem with SPV and all though
 353 2014-07-30 03:46:01 <LooseLarry> that would be 4 GB in size
 354 2014-07-30 03:46:07 <dsnrk> LooseLarry: I've said it like 4 times. NO.
 355 2014-07-30 03:46:13 <LooseLarry> dsnrk- ok ok - OK lol
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 357 2014-07-30 03:46:46 <dsnrk> LooseLarry: Hive wallet does have an address book with static addresses, for one.
 358 2014-07-30 03:47:03 <Luke-Jr> earlz: non-reference *nodes*, not wallets
 359 2014-07-30 03:47:05 <LooseLarry> I'm just looking for something to support handling large amounts of addresses
 360 2014-07-30 03:47:24 <Luke-Jr> dsnrk: complain to them. they seem receptive to constructive criticism
 361 2014-07-30 03:47:29 <dsnrk> LooseLarry: make it, outsource it, find an open source solution.
 362 2014-07-30 03:47:32 Swadq has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
 363 2014-07-30 03:47:34 <LooseLarry> and i've learned in the last 15 min, the wallet is not the proper way :)
 364 2014-07-30 03:47:45 <LooseLarry> well I just made a solution
 365 2014-07-30 03:47:48 <LooseLarry> but it uses the wallet
 366 2014-07-30 03:47:53 <LooseLarry> I did create 100,000 addresses
 367 2014-07-30 03:47:56 <LooseLarry> and I stored them in a database
 368 2014-07-30 03:48:04 <LooseLarry> the .DAT file grew thoguh - considerablty.
 369 2014-07-30 03:48:11 <Luke-Jr> LooseLarry: you can use -blocknotify and scan blocks yourself
 370 2014-07-30 03:48:12 <dsnrk> why do you want to make them ahead of time?
 371 2014-07-30 03:48:21 <Luke-Jr> also what dsnrk said :P
 372 2014-07-30 03:48:21 <LooseLarry> dsnrk, time I suppose
 373 2014-07-30 03:48:30 <Luke-Jr> LooseLarry: making them on demand is not slow..
 374 2014-07-30 03:48:36 <Luke-Jr> at least for HD wallets
 375 2014-07-30 03:48:42 <dsnrk> LooseLarry: I'm too busy trying to get bc.i to fix their broken shit. they STILL haven't fixed the latest bug :C
 376 2014-07-30 03:48:45 <LooseLarry> what is an HD?
 377 2014-07-30 03:48:56 <dsnrk> see BIP32.
 378 2014-07-30 03:48:57 <LooseLarry> as to wallets?
 379 2014-07-30 03:49:03 <LooseLarry> ok I'll google this
 380 2014-07-30 03:49:05 <Luke-Jr> LooseLarry: Hierarchial Deterministic wallets create all the addresses from a single private (non-ECDSA) key
 381 2014-07-30 03:49:22 <LooseLarry> Luke- I see.  That is how I thought it worked
 382 2014-07-30 03:49:32 <LooseLarry> I thought all addresses are derived from just the private key
 383 2014-07-30 03:49:42 <Luke-Jr> non-HD wallets require a private key for every address
 384 2014-07-30 03:49:45 <LooseLarry> so much to learn
 385 2014-07-30 03:49:54 <dsnrk> Luke-Jr: I mean, seriously it's been over a week and a half on this one ,,(balance 3M1S3tZVkEJw7zVBtn1Mq8McVyfnNMAuoX)
 386 2014-07-30 03:49:55 <gribble> -0.00887168
 387 2014-07-30 03:49:57 <LooseLarry> oh.  I didn't even know non HD existed
 388 2014-07-30 03:50:25 <Luke-Jr> dsnrk: why waste your time? the more obviously broken bc.i is, the fewer people will misplace their trust in it..
 389 2014-07-30 03:50:32 <LooseLarry> I wonder if unicode was used, if the keys could be shorter in length
 390 2014-07-30 03:50:36 <Luke-Jr> LooseLarry: Bitcoin Core only supports non-HD wallets today
 391 2014-07-30 03:50:44 <earlz> still has to be decoded at some point
 392 2014-07-30 03:51:00 <earlz> is there any plans to add HD support, or is that left to other walelts?
 393 2014-07-30 03:51:07 <Luke-Jr> earlz: it's planned
 394 2014-07-30 03:51:11 <dsnrk> Luke-Jr: the one before that bug was exploitable on mainnet and could have caused people to lose tens of thousands of BTC.
 395 2014-07-30 03:51:18 <Luke-Jr> but Core is slow moving, so it remains stable
 396 2014-07-30 03:51:39 <earlz> it still has commits everyday lol. not that slow
 397 2014-07-30 03:51:54 <Luke-Jr> dsnrk: only if they trust bc.i
 398 2014-07-30 03:51:55 pen has joined
 399 2014-07-30 03:52:05 <Luke-Jr> earlz: commits that have been ongoing works for months, yes
 400 2014-07-30 03:52:14 <dsnrk> Luke-Jr: people do. there's large websites which rely on their API.
 401 2014-07-30 03:52:19 mpmcsweeney has joined
 402 2014-07-30 03:52:28 <Luke-Jr> dsnrk: the more people lose their money because of bc.i, the fewer will use it :P
 403 2014-07-30 03:53:29 <dsnrk> Luke-Jr: I get that, but if I can avoid people losing their money I'll report exploitable bugs. the non exploitable bugs well, I post them and laugh at bc.i for them.
 404 2014-07-30 03:53:47 <Luke-Jr> heh ☺
 405 2014-07-30 03:54:03 Plinker_ has joined
 406 2014-07-30 03:54:17 <dsnrk> http://blockchain.info/block/0
 407 2014-07-30 03:55:24 banghouse has joined
 408 2014-07-30 03:55:25 <dsnrk> http://blockchain.info/address/RysdH6jZwzjM4YHaVNJB2j7S9onvSHoykw5d57aAzDcqhhFmWy37Tcfva4r24QCTMzk78tyQEVjhGL9wpzw9Yua6qD7p1n9xM
 409 2014-07-30 03:55:37 <dsnrk> see? we are laughing and nobody gets hurt.
 410 2014-07-30 03:55:57 <earlz> lol wtf
 411 2014-07-30 03:56:19 <Luke-Jr> dsnrk: it's all chinese! :p
 412 2014-07-30 03:56:45 <dsnrk> Luke-Jr: that's your fault, go to http://blockchain.info/en/address/112edB6q to set your cookie back to something sensible.
 413 2014-07-30 03:57:03 <Luke-Jr> dsnrk: it's the default, I think
 414 2014-07-30 03:57:06 <Luke-Jr> going to /en never fixes it
 415 2014-07-30 03:57:12 <Luke-Jr> (except for that one page)
 416 2014-07-30 03:57:28 <dsnrk> you must have a bad entry in their GEOIP database
 417 2014-07-30 03:57:32 <Luke-Jr> maybe
 418 2014-07-30 03:57:38 <dsnrk> so do I, totally the wrong country.
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 618 2014-07-30 08:57:43 <cryptorecruiter> anyone lookign for FT btc opportunities
 619 2014-07-30 08:57:57 <cryptorecruiter> i have a number of requirements
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 624 2014-07-30 09:01:55 <jcorgan> not really a discussion for this channel
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 725 2014-07-30 10:38:16 <cryptorecruiter> anyone lookign for any btc jobs
 726 2014-07-30 10:39:03 <cryptorecruiter> i have roles in Europe and the US ( some remote) in engingeerin ( Ruby,Python,C++) Mobile (Android/ios)
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 730 2014-07-30 10:44:45 <elichai2> there is any bot here? (that i can check when was the last one someone was online)
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 736 2014-07-30 10:50:43 <t7> !seen elichai2
 737 2014-07-30 10:50:43 <gribble> elichai2 was last seen in #bitcoin-dev 5 minutes and 57 seconds ago: <elichai2> there is any bot here? (that i can check when was the last one someone was online)
 738 2014-07-30 10:52:27 <elichai2> !seen arioBarza
 739 2014-07-30 10:52:27 <gribble> I have not seen arioBarza.
 740 2014-07-30 10:52:35 <elichai2> t7: not working lol
 741 2014-07-30 10:56:12 <Jouke_> wumpus: regarding issue 4604, is there something I can do to help to identify the problem?
 742 2014-07-30 10:58:49 <wumpus> Jouke_: it would be useful to know whether it happens on the server or client side; what does the server do after recieiving the command, does it run it to completion, or stop at some point (and why?), or even crash
 743 2014-07-30 10:59:03 <wumpus> or does it complete the command but not send the result
 744 2014-07-30 10:59:19 <wumpus> maybe some buffer becomes too big
 745 2014-07-30 10:59:19 <Jouke_> Server does not crash
 746 2014-07-30 10:59:42 <wumpus> as said, it isn't a timeout issue because there are no timeouts on commands
 747 2014-07-30 11:00:03 <Jouke_> I believe I tried to query it with curl with a large timeout and it wouldn't return a result either if I remember correctly.
 748 2014-07-30 11:00:28 <Jouke_> Is there an other method to know if the server runs it to completion?
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 752 2014-07-30 11:03:35 <wumpus> running the server in gdb would be the most comphrehensive way to see what happens, another way would be to add lots of LogPrintf
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 775 2014-07-30 11:37:08 <nandubatchu> hello
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 781 2014-07-30 11:42:17 <Forex> does it happen that sometimes block takes say 3 hours to solve? due to the possibility of it?
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 783 2014-07-30 11:42:51 <Forex> is there any website that shows average and min max times it took to solve block? :)
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 800 2014-07-30 12:13:26 <jgarzik> Forex, the average is 10 minutes
 801 2014-07-30 12:14:36 <Forex> yes I wonder how many time it went significantly longer than average
 802 2014-07-30 12:14:40 <Forex> *times
 803 2014-07-30 12:14:50 <Forex> perhaps there are some stats somewhere
 804 2014-07-30 12:14:50 <belcher_> its a poisson process
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 806 2014-07-30 12:15:06 <belcher_> theres a gribble function that works it out
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 808 2014-07-30 12:15:59 <Forex> nice whats its called @gribble function
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 810 2014-07-30 12:16:15 <belcher_> something like ;;tbls
 811 2014-07-30 12:18:48 <Forex> ;;tbls
 812 2014-07-30 12:18:48 <gribble> Error: "tbls" is not a valid command.
 813 2014-07-30 12:19:17 <Forex> ;tbls
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 815 2014-07-30 12:20:56 <wumpus> the actual statistics do not match a poisson process, at least not one with a fixed average of 10 minutes, due to increase in hash power over time
 816 2014-07-30 12:22:10 <Forex> true
 817 2014-07-30 12:22:12 <Forex> The most recent large difference was between block 270193 and 270194 with a difference of 7741 seconds (2 hours and 9 minutes).
 818 2014-07-30 12:22:15 <Forex> from net
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 821 2014-07-30 12:24:41 <Forex> wumpus: when diff is adjusted its adjustement is communicated via p2p port and stored where?
 822 2014-07-30 12:24:44 <Forex> wonders :)
 823 2014-07-30 12:25:07 <Forex> MIT could make some crypto classes :)
 824 2014-07-30 12:25:58 <lianj> diff adjustment is an algo that ever peer does for himself at the point of every retarget interval
 825 2014-07-30 12:27:18 <jgarzik> Forex, note that block timestamp is not necessarily block creation time.  miners may adjust that number.
 826 2014-07-30 12:28:03 <jgarzik> Forex, the diff adjustment and other rules are not communicated.  they are already baked into software.  each individual node runs their own validation based on their notion of rules.
 827 2014-07-30 12:28:24 <wumpus> and indeed, miners can mess (within certain bounds) with the timestamps too
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 829 2014-07-30 12:28:28 <jgarzik> Forex, if you fail to come up with the same answer as other nodes, that creates a fork.
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 831 2014-07-30 12:33:47 <Forex> wumpus: yes I am aware of time stamp maniplation its not huge
 832 2014-07-30 12:33:57 <Forex> like under 10% even less
 833 2014-07-30 12:35:33 <Forex> jgarzik: what I mean, when say hash increases by 80% and via sampling timestamps nodes see it, do they just adjust diff locallly based on shared params?
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 835 2014-07-30 12:37:13 <jgarzik> Forex, difficulty is adjusted based on the history of the last two weeks (144*14) worth of blocks
 836 2014-07-30 12:37:54 <Forex> yes thats make sense, so the only reason for longer than 10 min blocks are probablity?
 837 2014-07-30 12:38:04 <Forex> like getting 40 reds in roulette?
 838 2014-07-30 12:38:05 <jgarzik> Forex, correct
 839 2014-07-30 12:38:10 <Forex> cool
 840 2014-07-30 12:40:17 <Forex> what if block will take say 1 week, will adding more hash increase chances of solving it faster?
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 844 2014-07-30 12:41:24 <Forex> or use o confirms lol risky but :)
 845 2014-07-30 12:41:25 <Forex> 0
 846 2014-07-30 12:42:46 <jgarzik> Forex, we constantly perturb the input data making that less likely
 847 2014-07-30 12:42:55 <jgarzik> Forex, but statistically, we could get stuck for 1,000 years ;p
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 850 2014-07-30 12:43:51 <Forex> lol
 851 2014-07-30 12:46:01 <Forex> well in this case miners have to delete latest getwork request result en masse
 852 2014-07-30 12:46:11 samson_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 853 2014-07-30 12:46:23 <Forex> like a soft roll back
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 856 2014-07-30 12:47:23 <Forex> also why network identifier must produce large 4-byte int at any alignment?
 857 2014-07-30 12:47:34 <Forex> I am reading code comments :)
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 870 2014-07-30 13:02:32 <zks> Hi guys
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 874 2014-07-30 13:03:39 <zks> I'd like to print bitcoin address in C++ bitcoin core source code - but failed to it. Can anyone help?
 875 2014-07-30 13:04:04 rdponticelli has joined
 876 2014-07-30 13:04:11 <zks> Should I use HexStr?
 877 2014-07-30 13:04:30 <t7> there should be a nice base58 thing
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 879 2014-07-30 13:04:59 <zks> Can you please pinpoint me?
 880 2014-07-30 13:04:59 weilu has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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 882 2014-07-30 13:05:45 <zks> You mean EncodeBase58()?
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 884 2014-07-30 13:06:11 <jgarzik> zks, a bitcoin address in base58 is fundamentally a printable string
 885 2014-07-30 13:06:32 <zks> Thanks. Trying now.
 886 2014-07-30 13:06:49 kill\switch has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 887 2014-07-30 13:07:13 <jgarzik> zks, in C++, ToString() returns the printable string
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 890 2014-07-30 13:10:12 <cryptorecruiter> anyone lookign for any btc gigs?
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 898 2014-07-30 13:14:03 <zks> jgarzik, Still fails. I did: CKey key; key.MakeNewKey(true); CPubKey pub = key.GetPubKey(); cout << EncodeBase58(pub.begin(), pub.end());
 899 2014-07-30 13:14:25 <zks> jgarzik, it prints 29fpz9Wr27awCtTNBuCmW8BZL8e4gXNCeot4gCqoopiPp
 900 2014-07-30 13:14:46 <zks> jgarzik, I run on regtest, but it seems wrong pub key anyway...
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 902 2014-07-30 13:16:01 <jgarzik> zks, look at CBitcoinAddress examples
 903 2014-07-30 13:16:27 <zks> jgarzik, looking ...
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 907 2014-07-30 13:18:50 * jgarzik wonders who is this?
 908 2014-07-30 13:18:55 <jgarzik> 2014-07-30 13:12:42 receive version message: /bitcoinseeder:0.01/: version 60000, blocks=230000, us=162.219.2.72:8333, peer=11846
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 912 2014-07-30 13:20:13 <jgarzik> this bitcoinseeder continually reconnects
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 916 2014-07-30 13:20:41 <jgarzik> 2014-07-30 13:09:35 receive version message: /bitcoinseeder:0.01/: version 60000, blocks=230000, us=162.219.2.72:8333, peer=11843
 917 2014-07-30 13:20:48 AnoAnon has quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
 918 2014-07-30 13:20:53 <jgarzik> 2014-07-30 13:13:26 receive version message: /getaddr.bitnodes.io:0.1/: version 70001, blocks=313169, us=162.219.2.72:8333, peer=11847
 919 2014-07-30 13:20:53 <jgarzik> 2014-07-30 13:13:33 receive version message: /getaddr.bitnodes.io:0.1/: version 70001, blocks=290000, us=162.219.2.72:8333, peer=11848
 920 2014-07-30 13:20:53 <jgarzik> 2014-07-30 13:14:21 receive version message: /getaddr.bitnodes.io:0.1/: version 70001, blocks=313169, us=162.219.2.72:8333, peer=11849
 921 2014-07-30 13:21:03 <jgarzik> another annoying seeder
 922 2014-07-30 13:21:13 <jgarzik> no excuse to connnect every few seconds
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 925 2014-07-30 13:21:37 <zks> jgarzik, thanks! It worked! CBitcoinAddress(pubkey.GetID()).ToString()!!!
 926 2014-07-30 13:22:43 <zks> jgarzik, is there any better way to print CPrivKey than just for(const_iter ... )?
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 945 2014-07-30 13:45:30 <kostaz> Is there createrawtransaction-RPC for P2PK?
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 969 2014-07-30 14:11:25 <jgarzik> kostaz, no
 970 2014-07-30 14:11:59 <jgarzik> kostaz, wouldn't be difficult to do yourself, but as that's lower security than hash(pubkey), it probably wouldn't get added upstream
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1020 2014-07-30 14:55:49 <michagogo> o/
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1073 2014-07-30 15:57:44 <kostaz> jgarzik, I did "CBitcoinSecret(key).ToString()" - worked fine (just did some debug).
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1110 2014-07-30 16:29:35 <stonecoldpat> im sure this has been asked a thousand times - but is there a good way to run an IsStandard() test on a rawtransaction that is used for testnet?
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1112 2014-07-30 16:30:37 <gmaxwell> Sure. return true .... there is no IsStandard on testnet.
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1116 2014-07-30 16:33:21 <stonecoldpat> haha yeah I know it's turned off by default, but is there a way to the transaction through an IsStandard checker to see if it would be standard for mainnet?
1117 2014-07-30 16:33:53 <stonecoldpat> as i only have testnetcoins, but would be nice to make sure the transaction is-standard for mainnet
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1130 2014-07-30 16:44:25 <jgarzik> it would be fun if pchMessageStart were a hash of the network's policy
1131 2014-07-30 16:44:34 <jgarzik> ie. hard forks change the network id
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1173 2014-07-30 17:22:03 <michagogo> Hm, does regtest have IsStandard?
1174 2014-07-30 17:22:24 <michagogo> (re: stonecoldpat's question)
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1187 2014-07-30 17:38:20 <sipa> michagogo: yes, afaik
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1190 2014-07-30 17:40:05 <jrick> regtest doesn't do the IsStandard check
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1196 2014-07-30 17:44:43 <gmaxwell> sipa: undocumented side effect of commit cfeb8235 (2014-03-22)
1197 2014-07-30 17:45:39 <gmaxwell> hm. well not even that, but a mixture of that and the merge of regtest.
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1201 2014-07-30 17:51:23 <yk> warning
1202 2014-07-30 17:51:23 <yk>  you may be  watched
1203 2014-07-30 17:51:23 <yk> do usa&israel use the internet(facebook,youtube,twitter, chat rooms ..ect)to spy??
1204 2014-07-30 17:51:23 <yk> do usa&israel use the internet 2 collect informations,,can we call that spying??
1205 2014-07-30 17:51:23 <yk> do they record&analyse everything we do on the internet,,can they harm you using these informations??
1206 2014-07-30 17:51:23 <yk> ÊÍÐíÑ
1207 2014-07-30 17:51:23 <yk> warning
1208 2014-07-30 17:51:24 yk has quit (Excess Flood)
1209 2014-07-30 17:51:24 <gribble> Error: "can" is not a valid command.
1210 2014-07-30 17:51:25 <gribble> Error: "can" is not a valid command.
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1245 2014-07-30 18:25:14 <theymos> Does anyone know off-hand whether version 0.1 allowed a scriptSig ending with a pushdata opcode to turn the scriptPubKey into a (true) constant?
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1292 2014-07-30 18:36:54 <michagogo> theymos: Well, I think the technical answer to your question is yes -- OP_RETURN used to be "return true" IIRC
1293 2014-07-30 18:37:34 <sipa> OP_RETURN used to be just 'return'; truth was determined by the resulting stack, afaik
1294 2014-07-30 18:38:01 <michagogo> ah
1295 2014-07-30 18:38:35 <michagogo> so TRUE RETURN <PUSHDATA> would be true, not even getting to the sPK
1296 2014-07-30 18:39:00 <michagogo> theymos: why do you ask?
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1299 2014-07-30 18:42:52 <theymos> Someone on the Bitcoin Stack Exchange said that ending the scriptSig with a pushdata op was another OP_RETURN-like vulnerability, which seems plausible, and I haven't found anything that contradicts this in the code, but this seems like a much more obvious vulnerability to me, so I thought that it might be prevented somewhere in the 0.1 code that I haven't found.
1300 2014-07-30 18:43:50 <michagogo> Oh, I see what you're saying
1301 2014-07-30 18:44:08 <michagogo> Ending with the pushdata _opcode_ to make the scriptSig become a data push
1302 2014-07-30 18:44:24 <michagogo> Missed that part in the initial question
1303 2014-07-30 18:44:35 <michagogo> erm, make the sPK*
1304 2014-07-30 18:44:37 <theymos> Yeah, so the whole scriptPubKey will become a constant, and any non-zero constant will be true, so the script will validate.
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1306 2014-07-30 18:45:14 <michagogo> No, I think that was possible -- IIRC it just literally concatenated the sS and the sPK and ran them
1307 2014-07-30 18:45:29 <michagogo> Hence OP_CODESEPARATOR(sp)
1308 2014-07-30 18:46:36 <gmaxwell> theymos: I'm pretty sure that wouldn't have been the case. It was 'concatenated' but not at the byte level.
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1310 2014-07-30 18:47:04 <theymos> michagogo: That's what it seems to do, but you never can tell with C++. The code is: txin.scriptSig + CScript(OP_CODESEPARATOR) + txout.scriptPubKey
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1312 2014-07-30 18:47:43 <michagogo> gmaxwell: ah, really? I thought I'd heard otherwise
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1315 2014-07-30 18:48:45 <sipa> i think it was concatenated at the byte level
1316 2014-07-30 18:48:49 <sipa> judging by the code
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1318 2014-07-30 18:49:25 <gmaxwell> cute.
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1321 2014-07-30 18:50:16 <theymos> Yeah, I'm looking at it now and I think so too. CScript is derived from vector<unsigned char>.
1322 2014-07-30 18:50:26 <sipa> indeed
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1324 2014-07-30 18:51:23 <theymos> Thanks for the help. Satoshi must've been in a pretty big hurry when he wrote the script code. :)
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1326 2014-07-30 18:53:36 <gmaxwell> The details are a killer, as always.
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1330 2014-07-30 18:55:22 <sipa> hmm, that means maybe the separate execution of the two scripts may have been a hard fork
1331 2014-07-30 18:56:19 <sipa> perhaps in combination with if/then
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1333 2014-07-30 18:56:55 <amaclin> are you talking about script concatenation? it was my answer on SE. i found it somewhere else
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1335 2014-07-30 18:57:43 <theymos> amaclin: Your comment prompted me to look into it further because I wasn't sure that you are correct. But it looks like you were.
1336 2014-07-30 18:58:48 <amaclin> in fact i haven't looked in old sources. i found bitcoin for myself only in the end of '13
1337 2014-07-30 19:01:39 kill\switch has joined
1338 2014-07-30 19:03:23 <sipa> i checked the 0.1.5 source
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1428 2014-07-30 20:35:53 <kuzetsa> g
1429 2014-07-30 20:37:23 <Forex> when miner submits hash and its invalid it does remember it or not?
1430 2014-07-30 20:37:42 <Forex> or it can sometimes re send same invalid solution
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1442 2014-07-30 20:53:13 <dsnrk> Forex: not really a -dev question, take it to #bitcoin and we can work out what you're asking.
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1444 2014-07-30 20:53:39 <Forex> oki :)
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1446 2014-07-30 20:56:46 <BlueMatt> I love waiting for prodnet blocks to test things :(
1447 2014-07-30 20:57:56 YoY has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
1448 2014-07-30 20:58:41 <jgarzik> BlueMatt, turn on your CPU miner, make the network go faster!
1449 2014-07-30 20:58:53 <BlueMatt> heh
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1457 2014-07-30 21:11:50 <jgarzik> receive version message: Dain 0.0.1: version 70002, blocks=313236, us=162.219.2.72:8333, peer=23
1458 2014-07-30 21:11:54 <jgarzik> Dain?  That's a new one.
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1470 2014-07-30 21:20:52 <BlueMatt> seriously? 45 minutes since last block?
1471 2014-07-30 21:20:55 <BlueMatt> fuck probability
1472 2014-07-30 21:21:32 <sipa> ;;tblb 45m
1473 2014-07-30 21:21:32 <gribble> Error: '45m' is not a valid positive integer.
1474 2014-07-30 21:21:44 <BlueMatt> ;;tslb 45m
1475 2014-07-30 21:21:44 <gribble> (tslb takes no arguments) -- Shows time elapsed since latest generated block. This uses the block timestamp, so may be slightly off clock-time.
1476 2014-07-30 21:21:52 <sipa> ;;tblb [calc 45*60]
1477 2014-07-30 21:21:54 <gribble> The expected time between blocks taking 45 minutes and 0 seconds to generate is 21 hours, 4 minutes, and 44 seconds
1478 2014-07-30 21:22:02 <sipa> happens more than once a day!
1479 2014-07-30 21:22:06 <BlueMatt> indeed
1480 2014-07-30 21:22:09 <BlueMatt> fuck probability
1481 2014-07-30 21:22:39 <sipa> no thanks
1482 2014-07-30 21:23:03 <sipa> there's a block
1483 2014-07-30 21:23:05 <sipa> ;;tblb
1484 2014-07-30 21:23:06 <gribble> (tblb <interval>) -- Calculate the expected time between blocks which take at least <interval> seconds to create. To provide the <interval> argument, a nested 'seconds' command may be helpful.
1485 2014-07-30 21:23:10 <sipa> ;;tslb
1486 2014-07-30 21:23:16 <gribble> Error: Problem retrieving latest block data.
1487 2014-07-30 21:23:24 <dsnrk> go go blockchain.info!
1488 2014-07-30 21:23:26 <sipa> ;;tslb
1489 2014-07-30 21:23:32 <gribble> Error: Problem retrieving latest block data.
1490 2014-07-30 21:23:38 <sipa> does that use bc.i? :o
1491 2014-07-30 21:23:39 <dsnrk> it means a block just came in. their server freezes when that happens.
1492 2014-07-30 21:23:43 <dsnrk> yes.
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1494 2014-07-30 21:23:55 <dsnrk> that's why ;;balance returns negatives.
1495 2014-07-30 21:24:16 mE\Ta has joined
1496 2014-07-30 21:24:18 <sipa> lol
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1499 2014-07-30 21:25:46 <dsnrk> ;;balance 3M1S3tZVkEJw7zVBtn1Mq8McVyfnNMAuoX
1500 2014-07-30 21:25:46 <gribble> -0.00887168
1501 2014-07-30 21:26:41 <dsnrk> reported july 20, july 22 they told me the patch was written and going into place, july 30 they told me they'd never written the patch to begin with.
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1508 2014-07-30 21:35:57 <Forex> nice long blocks :D
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