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45 2014-08-01 01:10:37 <BlueMatt> RelayNode upgrade testing in progress http://0bin.net/paste/GsNCZu0G87hynM6C#9GlKAkvQHMp6empHfDjyk0rR+xt-ihsbnC3FLZo9XNR
46 2014-08-01 01:11:08 <BlueMatt> relaying only partial blocks is beating regular p2p relay mechanism and skipping like 1/2 of all transactions
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48 2014-08-01 01:11:28 <BlueMatt> Notably "Relayed 778 txn out of blocks" and "In total, skipped 755"
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50 2014-08-01 01:12:04 <BlueMatt> just means I need a bigger txn cache
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54 2014-08-01 01:16:30 <gmaxwell> BlueMatt: hows this work? run special client code remotely? and it just has a deterministic management of what txn it caches?
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59 2014-08-01 01:23:36 <gmaxwell> BlueMatt: need another tester?
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84 2014-08-01 02:03:48 <rfsoyt> Hi, I'm trying to find a way that I can programmatically get the current balance of any public address. I'd prefer to host my own solution rather than calling blockchain.info or similar. Does anyone have suggestions on a good open source solution that can help me? The closest I've found is bitcoin-abe
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89 2014-08-01 02:05:27 <maaku> rfsoyt: address index
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91 2014-08-01 02:06:38 <rfsoyt> maaku: hmm, care to elaborate? link?
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103 2014-08-01 02:10:17 <sipa> rfsoyt: at the protocol level, there is no such thing as "balance of an address"; there are just outputs to a particular address (script), and some of those may be unspent; their sum is what you call the balance, but you must know the actual outputs to be able to spend them
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105 2014-08-01 02:10:40 <sipa> rfsoyt: bitcoind does not maintain an index for that, only for the actual outputs, so it can't efficiently compute that
106 2014-08-01 02:10:47 <sipa> as it's not necessary for normal operator
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108 2014-08-01 02:11:16 <sipa> typically, wallet software just watching for transactions that pay to addresses you have the key for, and track those
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110 2014-08-01 02:12:40 <sipa> there are some pieces of software (including a patch for bitcoind called addrindex) which maintain an index for _all_ addresses, but this is expensive in terms of storage and processing overhead
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114 2014-08-01 02:17:24 <rfsoyt> sipa: I see, thanks.
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121 2014-08-01 02:20:21 <cfields> BlueMatt: ping
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125 2014-08-01 02:22:30 <cfields> BlueMatt: mind seeing what's going on with the test here? https://travis-ci.org/theuni/bitcoin/jobs/31387062
126 2014-08-01 02:23:06 <Luke-Jr> rfsoyt: also note that when those outputs are spent, the transactions spending them have nothing to do with the address they were created receiving to
127 2014-08-01 02:23:38 <Luke-Jr> so really, to talk about an address balance is nonsensical
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129 2014-08-01 02:25:45 <sipa> cfields: you're running with the large reorg test enabled i think; bitcoin's been failing those for months
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131 2014-08-01 02:25:56 <rfsoyt> Luke-Jr: I see, I'm just looking for a way I can run a service similar to blockchain.info that will give me an API to query public addresses (eg from mobile app), but I'd prefer to run my own rather than relying on a 3rd party
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134 2014-08-01 02:26:40 <Luke-Jr> rfsoyt: I encourage you to run one that doesn't have all the misinformation bc.i has
135 2014-08-01 02:27:01 <Luke-Jr> rfsoyt: I'd love a site I can link/refer people to without having the concern that they will be confused by all the misinformation on it
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138 2014-08-01 02:28:15 <rfsoyt> Luke-Jr: yeah, I don't care too much for an interface, I just want to make REST calls to get info
139 2014-08-01 02:28:39 <Luke-Jr> that being said, you'll probably need the address index patch for anything similar
140 2014-08-01 02:29:01 <Luke-Jr> basically it just means you can search transactions by the scriptPubKey
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145 2014-08-01 02:33:38 <denisx> can I have the link to the bootstrap.dat torrent again pls
146 2014-08-01 02:34:46 <Luke-Jr> http://bitcointroll.org/?topic=145386.0
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149 2014-08-01 02:35:53 <denisx> Luke-Jr: the new one is still not announced there
150 2014-08-01 02:36:00 <denisx> I wanted to help seeding
151 2014-08-01 02:36:15 <Luke-Jr> ah, didn't know there was a new one yet
152 2014-08-01 02:36:39 <denisx> I have it running on another machine, but it is a magnet link and I dont know how to copy that
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154 2014-08-01 02:37:19 <denisx> ah, I got it
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157 2014-08-01 02:42:50 <dsnrk> rfsoyt: a lot of places use Bitpay's Insight app to do that.
158 2014-08-01 02:47:30 <cfields> sipa: Ah, didn't realize it was known to be failing
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166 2014-08-01 02:55:53 <randomdev> how do i generate alert keys?
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168 2014-08-01 02:57:26 <randomdev> and how do i send alerts through bitcoind?
169 2014-08-01 02:58:10 <randomdev> im interested in testing some stuff involving alerts
170 2014-08-01 02:58:43 <dsnrk> altcoin development is way off topic for -dev.
171 2014-08-01 02:58:44 <randomdev> is anyone here?
172 2014-08-01 02:59:34 <dsnrk> if you can't work that little feature out, you shouldn't be even thinking of cloning bitcoin.
173 2014-08-01 03:00:07 <randomdev> i apologize for bringing it up, but i cant find any documentation about it. I'm not creating an altcoin at the moment, I'm trying to learn how the various parts of Bitcoin work, and this is a part without extensive documentation.
174 2014-08-01 03:00:41 <Luke-Jr> randomdev: there is only one alert key, and it cannot be generated
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177 2014-08-01 03:01:22 <randomdev> but how was that keypair generated? that is what i am confused about
178 2014-08-01 03:02:02 <Luke-Jr> randomdev: nobody knows for sure, since only Satoshi ever did it. presumably the same way transaction keypairs are generated
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185 2014-08-01 03:03:26 <dsnrk> randomdev: it's pretty much useless to everybody except the select few with the alert key.
186 2014-08-01 03:03:26 <dsnrk> it's just a standard keypair like any other.
187 2014-08-01 03:03:26 <dsnrk> you can even spend coins to it's hash160 if you would like to, though nobody will ever pick them up.
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190 2014-08-01 03:03:52 <dsnrk> from an academic standpoint the alert key is totally uninteresting.
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242 2014-08-01 03:32:48 <nullbyte> ... then Sysrq.
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330 2014-08-01 05:25:34 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: yes, exactly that, just run local client, deterministic txn cache
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332 2014-08-01 05:25:48 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: I am absolutely looking for testers, need to iron out one more bug first, though
333 2014-08-01 05:27:28 <BlueMatt> cfields: looks like you're running with the full test, which will do a very, very large reorg and may take >10 minutes between outputs
334 2014-08-01 05:28:07 <cfields> BlueMatt: yep, sipa told me. thanks. Didn't realize it was known to be failing atm
335 2014-08-01 05:28:32 <gmaxwell> BlueMatt: does it inv towards the relay to avoid the relay sending it txn that it learned from the network already?
336 2014-08-01 05:29:12 <gmaxwell> e.g. realy delay sending txn to the proxy, if it learns from its local node first, it INVs?
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338 2014-08-01 05:29:39 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: hmm? no nothing so fancy
339 2014-08-01 05:30:23 <gmaxwell> hm. I wonder how the performance of this could be measured. I guess the metric would be for bitcoind to log on subsiquent block INVs how many seconds ago it accepted the block.
340 2014-08-01 05:30:58 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: yes, I've been looking at exactly that
341 2014-08-01 05:31:12 <BlueMatt> havent had a chance to measure in detail yet due to one strange bug I havent found yet
342 2014-08-01 05:32:49 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: the relay nodes will relay blocks as soon as they get them over the regular ports as well, so you can connect bitcoind to both the local client and the regular port and see which wins
343 2014-08-01 05:33:16 <BlueMatt> but its a rather inconvenient measure (as the log posted indicates) due to biticoind's single-threaded network model
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349 2014-08-01 05:37:21 <gmaxwell> I wonder if you start getting the header of the block if you should inv it towards the node to prevent the node from trying to fetch it from another peer if the other peers inv beats the whole block showing up via your tool?
350 2014-08-01 05:37:42 <gmaxwell> (it'll getdata towards the first peer to INV it)
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352 2014-08-01 05:38:17 <BlueMatt> hmm, that would seem reasonable
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482 2014-08-01 07:30:39 <gmaxwell> Big (unimportant) news: We have a block with > 80 bits of zeros now. 00000000000000000000b7de9e5c19e52be073156924b7cf235efb27ae8a202a
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495 2014-08-01 07:39:45 <phantomcircuit> gmaxwell, diff 4Ã10¹â¹
496 2014-08-01 07:39:50 <phantomcircuit> neat
497 2014-08-01 07:41:05 <wumpus> woooot
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501 2014-08-01 07:44:45 <gmaxwell> phantomcircuit: more like 1e14 I think.
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503 2014-08-01 07:45:05 <gmaxwell> oh no wrong block
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505 2014-08-01 07:45:57 <gmaxwell> 3.9e14
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552 2014-08-01 08:40:36 <spinza> Should be small news not big... :)
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654 2014-08-01 10:37:35 <jgarzik> michagogo, new linearize scripts at git://github.com/jgarzik/bitcoin.git 2014_linearize
655 2014-08-01 10:37:46 <jgarzik> michagogo, creates a clean blocks/blk*.dat
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662 2014-08-01 10:42:54 <wumpus> would it be useful to return (block file, offset) for a block from some RPC call, so that local clients know where to find the data without having to transfer it?
663 2014-08-01 10:43:31 <cdecker_> I guess that unless you're using that information multiple times things don't change too much
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665 2014-08-01 10:43:42 <wumpus> of even (block file, offset, size)
666 2014-08-01 10:43:47 <wumpus> well there is a lot of transfer overhead in json-rpc
667 2014-08-01 10:43:52 <cdecker_> It should not be a huge difference between you doing the seek or the client
668 2014-08-01 10:44:13 <jgarzik> wumpus, thought about that
669 2014-08-01 10:44:16 <wumpus> you could do one batched JSON call to get those ranges for a whole slew of blocks
670 2014-08-01 10:44:16 <cdecker_> And my guess is that the seek trumps other operations
671 2014-08-01 10:44:23 <jgarzik> wumpus, but no need, I just read through the data on disk
672 2014-08-01 10:44:29 <jgarzik> wumpus, RPC only used for getting block hashes
673 2014-08-01 10:44:56 <wumpus> jgarzik: I know, but parsing through all the blocks in python again seems suboptimal
674 2014-08-01 10:45:07 <wumpus> the daemon already knows where to find the data
675 2014-08-01 10:45:12 <jgarzik> wumpus, it's far faster than rpc
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677 2014-08-01 10:45:30 <wumpus> ok, never mind...
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680 2014-08-01 10:46:18 <wumpus> at least I don't agree with cdecker_, transferring block data over JSON-RPC is slow, much slower than you'd think with just the seek times
681 2014-08-01 10:46:48 <jgarzik> wumpus, quite true, that's why I avoided it :)
682 2014-08-01 10:46:55 <jgarzik> it's achingly slow.
683 2014-08-01 10:47:10 <wumpus> I know, but your solution is not very general, every client of block data will have to plough through all the block files
684 2014-08-01 10:47:29 <jgarzik> wumpus, the need is not very general :)
685 2014-08-01 10:47:48 <wumpus> the need for sourcing raw block data is not very general?!
686 2014-08-01 10:48:25 <jgarzik> wumpus, the need to scan through lots of block data all at once
687 2014-08-01 10:48:26 <wumpus> well it has come up for me already at least a few times, in the end I used P2P to get the data instead of JSON-RPC
688 2014-08-01 10:48:32 <jgarzik> wumpus, HTTP REST is quite fast for simple download
689 2014-08-01 10:48:35 <wumpus> what about custom indexing and such?
690 2014-08-01 10:48:58 <jgarzik> no decoding w/ REST
691 2014-08-01 10:49:06 <wumpus> right, though I'm not so happy about adding a completely new interface
692 2014-08-01 10:49:56 <wumpus> but indeed it saves the encoding/decoding overhead
693 2014-08-01 10:50:44 <cdecker_> I stand corrected :-)
694 2014-08-01 10:51:46 <wumpus> jgarzik: I'm fine with it if the goal of the HTTP interface is to eventually replace the JSON-RPC interface for 'dumb data queries'
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699 2014-08-01 10:57:39 <jgarzik> wumpus, correct
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701 2014-08-01 10:59:25 <jgarzik> wumpus, RE (block file, offset) In general I do not think we want to encourage that. If you know what you're doing, if you know not to modify these files etc. then it is ok. Otherwise, it is potentially encouraging corruption of a live dataset by offering backdoor access.
702 2014-08-01 10:59:57 <jgarzik> wumpus, it is usually better to offer an interface, in case underlying data formats change
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704 2014-08-01 11:00:32 <wumpus> encouraging corruption? eh okay
705 2014-08-01 11:01:05 <wumpus> and the block format on disk should not change from the network format
706 2014-08-01 11:01:37 <jgarzik> wumpus, it has already changed once, to include zeroes appended after end of file
707 2014-08-01 11:01:45 <jgarzik> end of blocks
708 2014-08-01 11:01:59 <jgarzik> wumpus, that broke two raw block file scanners
709 2014-08-01 11:02:01 <wumpus> will if it just returns the file name, offset and size, what is *outside* those bounds isn't interesting and can change
710 2014-08-01 11:02:04 <wumpus> well*
711 2014-08-01 11:02:30 <wumpus> and changing that wouldn't break block scanners any more in that case
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714 2014-08-01 11:05:53 <jgarzik> wumpus, Again, all of what you argue is strictly true. But it still remains a slightly higher danger level to return (file N, offset). e.g. when you have to add qualifiers like "what is outside those bounds" that clearly ropes in software with boundary checking bugs :)
715 2014-08-01 11:05:54 <wumpus> the framing could be anything, the only guarantee is that some file will contain the block data in network format at some position, which is a reasonable assumption.... if not, block scanners won't work anyway, and it could return None to signify that we don't have the data anymore
716 2014-08-01 11:06:10 <jgarzik> if there is a strong need, I suppose we can include it
717 2014-08-01 11:06:34 <jgarzik> but it will always get a strong pushback from me, because in general we should avoid offering low level access to on-disk data
718 2014-08-01 11:06:40 <wumpus> well I seem to be the only one to think it's a good idea
719 2014-08-01 11:06:44 <wumpus> so you can be happy
720 2014-08-01 11:07:05 <wumpus> in general I agree, but the block data is different
721 2014-08-01 11:07:09 <jgarzik> sipa described a compressed block format, so even " the block format on disk should not change from the network format" is not true necessarily.
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723 2014-08-01 11:07:14 <wumpus> a) it is huge b) it has a well-defined (internal) format
724 2014-08-01 11:07:30 <wumpus> c) you really only want to store one copy, and access it when needed
725 2014-08-01 11:07:45 <jgarzik> (b) looks to change
726 2014-08-01 11:07:50 <wumpus> I wouldn't advocate the same for the database files obviously
727 2014-08-01 11:08:02 <wumpus> compressing the block data makes no sense
728 2014-08-01 11:08:17 <wumpus> many people have tried it and it has almost no win for the CPU time spent on it
729 2014-08-01 11:08:25 <wumpus> and that would *ALSO* break your block scanner
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731 2014-08-01 11:09:07 <jgarzik> Yep. The block format changed once, and according to sipa idea it might change again.
732 2014-08-01 11:09:34 <jgarzik> Certainly a compressed format is much more severe change than zeroes.
733 2014-08-01 11:09:36 <wumpus> sigh, okay
734 2014-08-01 11:11:03 <wumpus> so discourage scanning bitcoind's block files?
735 2014-08-01 11:11:11 <wumpus> I'm pretty sure a certain bitpay project does the same
736 2014-08-01 11:11:38 gmcd has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
737 2014-08-01 11:11:51 <wumpus> or does it get the data over P2P now?
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747 2014-08-01 11:26:43 <jgarzik> wumpus, a fair question. dunno. it might.
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809 2014-08-01 12:53:08 <dsnrk> wumpus: you'd be surprised, just whacking the block files through a compressor today gets you about a 30% decrease in the size of the block files.
810 2014-08-01 12:53:38 <sipa> dsnrk: for a bootstrap that makes sense[A
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813 2014-08-01 12:54:19 <sipa> dsnrk: for a bootstrap that makes sense, but for actual usage we need to be able to access the blocks individually
814 2014-08-01 12:54:32 <dsnrk> indeed. not sure if it makes sense for anything else, but it did surprise me that it works.
815 2014-08-01 12:55:33 <wumpus> dsnrk: that's one block at a time or everything at once?
816 2014-08-01 12:56:11 <dsnrk> wumpus: that was just over the block files, the ~100MB hunks. depends a lot on which blocks of course.
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818 2014-08-01 12:57:10 <dsnrk> just for my own interest I'm going to try it on a bootstrap.dat, but that's going to take a while.
819 2014-08-01 12:57:28 <sipa> which compression algorithm?
820 2014-08-01 12:58:07 <dsnrk> 7z/LZMA
821 2014-08-01 12:58:12 <sipa> one thing that would be trivial to do in terms of compression is the 'headers' command... it always sends chains of headers, so you don't really need hashprev or nbits or most of ntime in them
822 2014-08-01 12:58:30 <sipa> iirc it could trivially use 39 bytes instead of 81
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827 2014-08-01 13:05:11 <dsnrk> blk00158.dat 13412[D[D[D[D[D[D6231 bytes > 89092359 bytes
828 2014-08-01 13:05:33 <wumpus> sipa: I think we're going too far in #4582
829 2014-08-01 13:05:41 <wumpus> my only point there aws to add seeds for onion addresses
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831 2014-08-01 13:06:29 <dsnrk> er, sorry. 134MB to 89MB. which is more than I would have guessed.
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834 2014-08-01 13:07:20 <sipa> wumpus: sorry, commented
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838 2014-08-01 13:12:12 <wumpus> on the next seeds update it makes sense to use dotted addresses (they are supported by the python script), for now having them like this makes it clear that I used the same input data
839 2014-08-01 13:12:41 <sipa> yup
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855 2014-08-01 13:43:35 <michagogo> Hm, how were the onion seeds selected?
856 2014-08-01 13:43:58 <michagogo> thfsmmn2jbitcoin.onion is in testnet, but not mainnet
857 2014-08-01 13:44:26 <michagogo> Pretty sure that one is mine, and it's on both nets
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861 2014-08-01 13:45:36 <wumpus> michagogo: for mainnet they come from a crawler and the wiki page with stable fallback nodes, for testnet it's just a random list
862 2014-08-01 13:47:09 <wumpus> (I also posted that to the issue, by the way)
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882 2014-08-01 13:55:42 <dsnrk> /window 5
883 2014-08-01 13:55:45 <dsnrk> mmf.
884 2014-08-01 13:57:02 payments has joined
885 2014-08-01 13:57:10 <payments> Hello. I hope you are all well.
886 2014-08-01 13:57:30 <payments> I have question regarding BIP70, specifically the format of the Certificates field on a Payment Request.
887 2014-08-01 13:57:58 graingert has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
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889 2014-08-01 13:58:03 <payments> According to the documentation it is a chain of certificates, which are presented as "DER [ITU.X690.1994] PKIX".
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893 2014-08-01 13:58:57 <jgarzik> payments, yes
894 2014-08-01 13:58:58 <payments> I cannot see where this format is explained or documented. Is it basically the -----BEGIN CERTIFICATE----- / END CERTIFICATE data?
895 2014-08-01 13:59:37 <jgarzik> payments, trickles down from X.509
896 2014-08-01 14:00:01 <payments> jgarzik, Okay, so I should be able to find out how to encode my self signed x509 (from openssl) into this format.
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900 2014-08-01 14:01:52 <payments> According to some the *.pem file I generated is infact ANSI X.690, can I simply include this data in the payment request?
901 2014-08-01 14:01:52 <jgarzik> payments, http://www.planetlarg.net/encyclopedia/ssl-secure-sockets-layer/der-distinguished-encoding-rules-certificate-encoding
902 2014-08-01 14:01:53 <jgarzik> etc.
903 2014-08-01 14:02:06 <payments> Ah, thank you very much.
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912 2014-08-01 14:02:45 <payments> Okay I understand,
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917 2014-08-01 14:04:50 <payments> jgarzik,Thank you for your help.
918 2014-08-01 14:07:04 <jgarzik> hum
919 2014-08-01 14:07:17 <jgarzik> how much memory does the block index take up?
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921 2014-08-01 14:08:18 <jgarzik> It seems like we need to prune in-memory behavior more than on-disk behavior. I cannot see needing to query blocks #1-1000 directly from RAM etc.
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927 2014-08-01 14:18:38 <wumpus> the block index is not stored in memory, apart from some leveldb caching, or do you mean the block headers?
928 2014-08-01 14:19:40 <jgarzik> wumpus, mapBlockIndex
929 2014-08-01 14:20:13 <jgarzik> and associated CBlockIndex's
930 2014-08-01 14:20:25 <wumpus> right
931 2014-08-01 14:20:57 <jgarzik> block headers+++ :)
932 2014-08-01 14:21:00 <wumpus> that contains everything?
933 2014-08-01 14:21:12 <jgarzik> wumpus, yes
934 2014-08-01 14:23:29 <sipa> maybe some parts of CBlockIndex can be left on disk
935 2014-08-01 14:23:48 <sipa> but not having the actual header tree acessible would complicate things significantly
936 2014-08-01 14:23:52 <sipa> like finding forks
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938 2014-08-01 14:24:57 <sipa> CBlockIndex is indeed headers + some metadata
939 2014-08-01 14:25:14 <wumpus> I suppose the most accessed headers are the recent ones
940 2014-08-01 14:25:22 <sipa> jgarzik: it's like 40 MB in memory, iirc
941 2014-08-01 14:25:30 <jgarzik> a forum poster was surprised that a current bitcoind with 30 connections took up 800MB
942 2014-08-01 14:25:31 <sipa> (including malloc overhead)
943 2014-08-01 14:25:32 <wumpus> that's peanuts compared to some other things
944 2014-08-01 14:25:40 <jgarzik> that matched my experience on my recent cloudatcost.com node.
945 2014-08-01 14:25:46 <sipa> 800 sounds right, yes
946 2014-08-01 14:25:52 <jgarzik> I was trying to quantify various major users.
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948 2014-08-01 14:25:59 <jgarzik> mempool being largest
949 2014-08-01 14:26:03 <wumpus> connections have a quite high overhead too
950 2014-08-01 14:26:23 <sipa> CTransactions in memory take up many times more memory than serialized
951 2014-08-01 14:26:27 <wumpus> although 30 isn't that much
952 2014-08-01 14:26:27 <sipa> like 8 times, iirc
953 2014-08-01 14:26:41 <sipa> because of the overhead of 2 layers of vectors
954 2014-08-01 14:27:10 <wumpus> my node with 70 connections has 670MB RSS
955 2014-08-01 14:27:14 <jgarzik> IIRC, CNode got reduced. I used to use 32MB fixed buffer per TCP can, but that got changed.
956 2014-08-01 14:27:22 <jgarzik> wumpus, 32-bit or 64-bti?
957 2014-08-01 14:27:25 <wumpus> 32 bit
958 2014-08-01 14:27:26 <sipa> ok, seems mapBlockIndex is more like 60 MB in total
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960 2014-08-01 14:28:39 <sipa> at some point i want to make versions of map/set/vector/... that keep track of how much memory they 'own'
961 2014-08-01 14:28:46 <sipa> to quantify resource usage
962 2014-08-01 14:29:02 <wumpus> now that transactions are immutable, I suppose they could use a more compact format in memory
963 2014-08-01 14:29:39 <sipa> in theory
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965 2014-08-01 14:30:03 <sipa> like have a single vector of CScripts, with the different inputs and outputs containing an index into that vector
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969 2014-08-01 14:31:22 <wumpus> couldn't a memory profiler be used to quantify memory usage?
970 2014-08-01 14:32:03 <sipa> i meant at run time
971 2014-08-01 14:32:14 <sipa> so we could for example limit how much memory a peer can cause us to use
972 2014-08-01 14:32:23 <sipa> and deprioritize their requests over a certain value etc
973 2014-08-01 14:33:10 <wumpus> oh, more like quotas, yes then it makes sense... I meant just to count usage it shouldn't be needed to make our won version of map/set/vector
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993 2014-08-01 14:39:05 <arioBarzan> if someone sends coins to a P2SH address with redeemScript not being one of standard types, are those coins going to be unspendable forever?
994 2014-08-01 14:39:53 <wumpus> isstandard can be bypassed by finding a miner that will put it in a block for you
995 2014-08-01 14:40:59 <wumpus> if the resulting transaction is not valid, on the other hand, yes they will be unspendable forever
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997 2014-08-01 14:50:06 <arioBarzan> wumpus: by isstandard you meant CTransaction::IsStandard() in main.cpp ?
998 2014-08-01 14:50:33 <sipa> standardness generally means "what is relayed"
999 2014-08-01 14:51:17 <sipa> it's stronger than just IsStandard is the source code (there are also limits on size, what features are used inside the script language, whether outputs being spent are standard...)
1000 2014-08-01 14:51:55 jMyles has joined
1001 2014-08-01 14:54:05 <arioBarzan> if my redeem script be like:
1002 2014-08-01 14:54:06 <arioBarzan> OP_DUP OP_HASH160 <hash_pk1> OP_EQUALVERIFY OP_CHECKSIGVERIFY <pk2> OP_CHECKSIG
1003 2014-08-01 14:54:10 <arioBarzan> is it standard or not?
1004 2014-08-01 14:54:18 <arioBarzan> (for a p2sh tx)
1005 2014-08-01 14:54:28 <sipa> no
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1008 2014-08-01 15:01:06 <wumpus> not after #4365 (relax isstandard for p2sh transactions) either?
1009 2014-08-01 15:01:36 <sipa> ah, maybe
1010 2014-08-01 15:02:57 <wumpus> it has less than 15 signature operations, so I'd say so
1011 2014-08-01 15:03:36 <sipa> yup, i believe so
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1020 2014-08-01 15:14:20 <amaclin> arioBarzan, 852e789d2a871dab343b3de24f3fa6109efbd44c02bc1d614342568616980285 will never be mined. you forgot the fee. Luke-Jr does not mine non-standard transactions for free
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1022 2014-08-01 15:15:34 <wumpus> it indeed would be difficult to make mapBlockIndex not store the entire set of blocks, esp. because CBlockIndex* are used as stable handles for a specific block throughout other data structures
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1024 2014-08-01 15:16:22 <sipa> we could introduce a BlockId type as a first step
1025 2014-08-01 15:16:41 <sipa> and replace CBlockIndex->... calls with GetBlockIndex(BlockId)->
1026 2014-08-01 15:16:49 <wumpus> right and make it a typedef at first
1027 2014-08-01 15:16:51 <wumpus> sounds good
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1029 2014-08-01 15:17:38 <sipa> or see if some fields of CBlockIndex can become non-in-ram
1030 2014-08-01 15:18:06 <arioBarzan> amaclin: I wonder how you found about 852e789d2a871dab343b3de24f3fa6109efbd44c02bc1d614342568616980285 :) how much fee I had to pay, 0.0001 or more?
1031 2014-08-01 15:18:09 <wumpus> later on it could just be an increasing integer handle where the data is loaded from either MRU cache or on miss, the backend database on-demand
1032 2014-08-01 15:18:20 <sipa> nFile, nDataPos, nUndoPos for sure - as those are only needed when actually loading data from disk anyway
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1034 2014-08-01 15:18:32 <wumpus> but yes there may be lower-hanging fruit
1035 2014-08-01 15:18:35 <sipa> but that's just 3 MB
1036 2014-08-01 15:18:54 <sipa> also, the phashBlock in CBlockIndex is essentially pointless
1037 2014-08-01 15:19:14 <sipa> as it always points to the uint256 in the same pair<uint256, CBlockIndex> which is stored in the map
1038 2014-08-01 15:19:41 <sipa> just turning it into a set<CBlockIndex>, where CBlockIndex entries hold their own hash would save us 1MB
1039 2014-08-01 15:19:55 <wumpus> indeed, I wondered about that one
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1041 2014-08-01 15:20:39 <amaclin> arioBarzan, I do not think that this chat is good place to discuss non-standard transactions. We are disturbing developers. Ask your questions on bitcointalk.org
1042 2014-08-01 15:20:40 <sipa> or we could hack it, and do some ugly pointer arithmetic to recover the position of the uint256 that precedes it
1043 2014-08-01 15:21:02 <sipa> which is just a few lines of code changed, but very ugly
1044 2014-08-01 15:21:34 <wumpus> using a set sounds easier to understand, and makes no assumptions about a specific in-memory format STL implementation
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1046 2014-08-01 15:22:14 <sipa> no need for such an assumption; you can use offsetof in map::value_type
1047 2014-08-01 15:22:52 <sipa> the disadvantage for using a set is 1) more lines of code changed 2) you need to upcast a uint256 to a CBlockIndex before being able to call find
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1049 2014-08-01 15:23:26 <sipa> the Really Correct(tm) solution is introducing a CBlockId type that wraps a std::map<uint256, CBlockIndex*>::iterator instead
1050 2014-08-01 15:23:39 <sipa> which can be used to both access the CBlockIndex entry, or access the hash
1051 2014-08-01 15:23:57 <sipa> instead of just passing the CBlockIndex* entry around
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1145 2014-08-01 16:57:17 payments has joined
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1147 2014-08-01 16:57:36 <payments> I have a question about BIP70, and how to debug my payment requests in BitcoinQt
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1154 2014-08-01 17:00:19 <payments> I have got unsigned requests working, it shows me the correct payment in the Bitcoin client, however my signed payments are coming up as unverified, even when i fill them with a duff signature?
1155 2014-08-01 17:00:26 <payments> Shouldn't they not come up at all if the singature is bad?
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1159 2014-08-01 17:02:49 <payments> Is there anyone lurking who can help me?
1160 2014-08-01 17:03:08 <sipa> patience
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1164 2014-08-01 17:05:00 <payments> sipa, Should I not get debug messages output to the log if there is something wrong with the request singature?
1165 2014-08-01 17:05:20 <wumpus> payments: try passing -debug=qt
1166 2014-08-01 17:05:20 <sipa> i know nothing about the gui stuff
1167 2014-08-01 17:05:37 <payments> wumpus, thanks I shall try that.
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1171 2014-08-01 17:06:35 <wumpus> sipa: ooh, good point about find
1172 2014-08-01 17:07:32 <payments> Thanks wumpus - so it tells me bad signature: PaymentRequestPlus::getMerchant : SSL error: Bad signature, invalid PaymentRequest. But the payment request still comes up? Aside from me having to fix this, is this not bad behavior? Surely if it is a bad signature it should say so, not come up unverified?
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1174 2014-08-01 17:07:45 <payments> Otherwise you can still man-in-middle it and the user will not know?
1175 2014-08-01 17:07:51 <wumpus> payments: it will show it as 'untrusted' payment request
1176 2014-08-01 17:08:08 <wumpus> payments: I hope it doesn't show it in green?
1177 2014-08-01 17:08:44 <payments> No it shows Unverified, in yellow, however is the point of the singature not to prevent any tampering? You can now tamper with it and the address will change, they can still pay?
1178 2014-08-01 17:08:56 <payments> Would not be thoughtful to deny the request all together?
1179 2014-08-01 17:09:01 <wumpus> well if you tamper it becomes unverified - that's the point
1180 2014-08-01 17:09:15 <sipa> payments: someone who tampers will just remove the signature
1181 2014-08-01 17:09:23 <wumpus> not really, because we want to allow non-signed payment requests as well
1182 2014-08-01 17:09:39 <wumpus> right
1183 2014-08-01 17:09:44 <payments> Yes but is there a difference between it signed as none vs signed but not verified?
1184 2014-08-01 17:09:49 <sipa> no
1185 2014-08-01 17:10:01 <sipa> because someone who tampers would just remove the signature
1186 2014-08-01 17:10:05 <wumpus> no, there intentionally isn't; it won't show a merchant in either case
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1188 2014-08-01 17:10:10 <sipa> it is not harder than just invalidating it
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1190 2014-08-01 17:10:31 <payments> Hmmm, okay. Well I will now try and get my singature working. Thanks for your help guys.
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1193 2014-08-01 17:14:23 <payments> ???
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1195 2014-08-01 17:15:00 <payments> wumpus It is working after all. Looks like the trusted certificates are cached in the client, so when I added it to my root store it did not pick it up until i restarted with your recommendation of the debug parameter :)
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1243 2014-08-01 18:14:55 <wumpus> yes, it loads the list of root certificates at startup
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1245 2014-08-01 18:16:13 <justusranvier> Is there a command I can use to have bitcoind tell me why it has banned a peer?
1246 2014-08-01 18:16:42 <sipa> look at the log; the dos score increases should be logged
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1249 2014-08-01 18:20:25 <justusranvier> sipa: The problem is the peer that is being banned is my Tor node. Once bitcoind decides to ban that IP address, then I can't receive *any* incoming hidden service connections.
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1251 2014-08-01 18:24:44 <sipa> ah
1252 2014-08-01 18:25:05 <sipa> tor is assumed to be running locally, as localhost is never banned
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1256 2014-08-01 18:26:17 <justusranvier> I'd never run a tor node on the same machine as a bitcoin node. Actually, I'd never run any to network-facing servers on the same machine.
1257 2014-08-01 18:26:21 <justusranvier> any two
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1261 2014-08-01 18:28:37 <wumpus> the git version has configurable whitelisting functionality
1262 2014-08-01 18:28:47 <sipa> you do not want to whitelist tor
1263 2014-08-01 18:29:19 <wumpus> so tor on localhost is still a special case? okay
1264 2014-08-01 18:29:49 <sipa> whitelisting removes both disconnecting and banning
1265 2014-08-01 18:30:00 <sipa> for tor, you want the disconnecting but not banning
1266 2014-08-01 18:30:20 <sipa> there is an exception still that localhost is never banned, even if you do disconnect
1267 2014-08-01 18:30:53 <justusranvier> Maybe that exception should be configurable to include multiple hosts
1268 2014-08-01 18:30:57 <wumpus> ok, understood, I had hoped the whitelisting change would have made this possible
1269 2014-08-01 18:31:15 <justusranvier> Or, even better, paramaters like whitelist, max connections, etc should be configurable per-interface
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1271 2014-08-01 18:31:25 <sipa> i admit i hadn't considered the use case of running tor on non-localhost
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1274 2014-08-01 18:32:00 <wumpus> meh, no reason to make this too complex
1275 2014-08-01 18:32:07 <justusranvier> Given the low overhead of virtualization/containers, there's no reason to run different servers on the same (virtual) machine
1276 2014-08-01 18:32:13 <wumpus> I don't want a whole firewall in bitcoind
1277 2014-08-01 18:32:39 <justusranvier> I don't want a p0wned bitcoind to compromise everything else, or vice-verse
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1279 2014-08-01 18:34:26 <wumpus> that's up to you, but at a certain point you're the only person to only ever use certain functionality, and it's just not worth the maintenance and testing overhead
1280 2014-08-01 18:34:40 <justusranvier> For that matter, Tor connections reach my bitcoind node via a different network interface than external ipv4 connections, and the lan is yet a different interface. I'd like to be able to configure different connections limits for each interface independently.
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1283 2014-08-01 18:35:06 <wumpus> you could use a ssh tunnel to work around it
1284 2014-08-01 18:35:12 <justusranvier> So that Armory can always connect, even if the external ipv4 quota is full
1285 2014-08-01 18:36:00 <wumpus> that is possible with the current whitelisting functionality by adding a specific port for whitelisted connections
1286 2014-08-01 18:36:40 <wumpus> armory, in contrast to tor, can be whitelisted
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1288 2014-08-01 18:37:21 <wumpus> (and yes, the whitelisted port can bind on another interface)
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1291 2014-08-01 18:39:57 <wumpus> you could add a -torbind that is like -whitebind but does disconnect in misbehavior (but not ban), but it's really obscure
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1295 2014-08-01 18:42:05 <safinaskar-i> hi
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1320 2014-08-01 19:11:22 * Luke-Jr wonders if %0*lx works on Windows
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1335 2014-08-01 19:32:42 <earlz> So, not to start any flames, but does anyone have an opinion on Etherium? I personally think it's an elaborate scam, but apparently some bitcoin foundation people are involved
1336 2014-08-01 19:33:10 <sipa> #bitcoin please
1337 2014-08-01 19:33:30 <earlz> #bitcoin is just 1000 people lurking and never saying anything lol
1338 2014-08-01 19:33:55 <sipa> i don't care
1339 2014-08-01 19:34:03 <earlz> and I mean more from a technical standpoint, like if some of their ideas are even possible
1340 2014-08-01 19:34:48 <denisx> sipa: would a change of the dbcache parameter explain my increase of disk IO?
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1344 2014-08-01 19:37:16 <sipa> denisx: lower cache, more writes, for sure
1345 2014-08-01 19:37:38 <denisx> sipa: ok, then this mistery is solved I guess ;)
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1355 2014-08-01 19:52:05 <iwilcox> sipa: Actually if folks ask that on #bitcoin they're likely to be quickly punted to #ethereum :)
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1358 2014-08-01 19:55:35 <earlz> I'm really curious to have an unbiased technical discussion about it, without all the marketing buzz words lol
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1362 2014-08-01 20:00:15 <gmaxwell> earlz: This is not the place for it. Please don't continue here.
1363 2014-08-01 20:00:39 <earlz> ok that's understandable
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1420 2014-08-01 21:15:55 <Forex> is it normal that abe explorer sometimes wont respond to ctrl +c ?
1421 2014-08-01 21:15:55 <Forex> :D
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1444 2014-08-01 21:39:34 <bonks> Anyone know what format the bitcoin wallet backup is stored? I want to extract the private keys
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1446 2014-08-01 21:40:24 <gmaxwell> bonks: wallet backup is just the wallet format, its not a seperate format.
1447 2014-08-01 21:42:19 <Luke-Jr> bonks: I wouldn't advise that btw.
1448 2014-08-01 21:42:32 <sipa> use dumpwallet instead of backupwallet
1449 2014-08-01 21:42:35 <sipa> it's human readable
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1451 2014-08-01 21:43:19 <Forex> ;)
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1454 2014-08-01 21:49:52 <bonks> Oh perfect... Luke-Jr I'm just exploring things with minimum risk :) Thx guys
1455 2014-08-01 21:50:11 <Luke-Jr> bonks: managing keys by hand is never minimum risk, but ok âº
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1457 2014-08-01 21:52:04 <bonks> Luke-Jr: Backups with few satoshis I want to move, even less than the fee
1458 2014-08-01 21:52:41 <bonks> Oh crap I thought I mentioned android wallet
1459 2014-08-01 21:52:52 <bonks> The android wallet by andreas is what I'm talking about :x
1460 2014-08-01 21:52:57 <Luke-Jr> :/
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1462 2014-08-01 21:53:59 <bonks> Any idea on that format?
1463 2014-08-01 21:54:36 <sipa> yes, the same as bitcoind's dumpwallet
1464 2014-08-01 21:54:47 <sipa> but encrypted using openssl's aeb
1465 2014-08-01 21:54:48 <bonks> Ok cool
1466 2014-08-01 21:54:50 <sipa> *aes
1467 2014-08-01 21:55:13 <bonks> ty
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1543 2014-08-01 23:16:36 <sipa> ;;diff
1544 2014-08-01 23:16:36 <gribble> 1.8736441558310238E10
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