1 2014-08-03 00:00:30 zenojis has joined
   2 2014-08-03 00:03:01 randy-waterhouse has joined
   3 2014-08-03 00:04:00 Aido has joined
   4 2014-08-03 00:04:46 zenojis has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
   5 2014-08-03 00:05:21 mE\Ta has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
   6 2014-08-03 00:06:58 Aido_ has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
   7 2014-08-03 00:10:41 andytoshi has quit (Ping timeout: 266 seconds)
   8 2014-08-03 00:12:17 jimbeam has joined
   9 2014-08-03 00:12:53 andytoshi has joined
  10 2014-08-03 00:13:39 <jimbeam> Hey I just made an app for realtime bitcoin data and would really appreciate any feedback
  11 2014-08-03 00:13:46 <jimbeam> can I post the link here?
  12 2014-08-03 00:18:00 zenojis has joined
  13 2014-08-03 00:18:12 <justanotheruser> jimbeam: probably more appropriate in #bitcoin if at all
  14 2014-08-03 00:18:18 <jimbeam> ok thanks
  15 2014-08-03 00:18:26 hanti is now known as HANTI
  16 2014-08-03 00:19:09 wallet42 has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
  17 2014-08-03 00:19:38 hmsimha has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
  18 2014-08-03 00:21:44 jimbeam has left ()
  19 2014-08-03 00:24:54 moarrr has quit ()
  20 2014-08-03 00:33:17 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: https://github.com/TheBlueMatt/RelayNode/ (mostly https://github.com/TheBlueMatt/RelayNode/blob/master/src/main/java/com/mattcorallo/relaynode/RelayConnection.java and https://github.com/TheBlueMatt/RelayNode/blob/master/src/main/java/com/mattcorallo/relaynode/RelayNodeClient.java)
  21 2014-08-03 00:37:54 akstunt600 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  22 2014-08-03 00:38:58 akstunt600 has joined
  23 2014-08-03 00:46:19 wallet42 has joined
  24 2014-08-03 00:48:34 owowo has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
  25 2014-08-03 00:48:57 viic has joined
  26 2014-08-03 00:53:35 owowo has joined
  27 2014-08-03 00:54:58 randy-waterhouse has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
  28 2014-08-03 01:06:24 Zarutian has quit (Quit: Zarutian)
  29 2014-08-03 01:08:40 <dsnrk> those paths hurt my head.
  30 2014-08-03 01:08:47 <gmaxwell> JAVA
  31 2014-08-03 01:08:55 toffoo has quit ()
  32 2014-08-03 01:11:01 attilah has joined
  33 2014-08-03 01:11:46 skizzor has joined
  34 2014-08-03 01:14:41 <jcorgan> for every path delimiter wasted, a baby angel dies.
  35 2014-08-03 01:17:25 MiamiDDS has quit (Quit: Leaving)
  36 2014-08-03 01:17:48 JackH has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
  37 2014-08-03 01:18:56 mappum has joined
  38 2014-08-03 01:19:02 rdbell has joined
  39 2014-08-03 01:21:56 justanot1eruser has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
  40 2014-08-03 01:22:32 justanotheruser has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  41 2014-08-03 01:22:34 Belxjander has joined
  42 2014-08-03 01:23:50 weilu has joined
  43 2014-08-03 01:24:02 justanotheruser has joined
  44 2014-08-03 01:24:07 justanot1eruser has joined
  45 2014-08-03 01:24:16 darwin_ has joined
  46 2014-08-03 01:24:27 sabfer has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  47 2014-08-03 01:24:54 sabfer has joined
  48 2014-08-03 01:28:07 justanotheruser has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  49 2014-08-03 01:28:36 justanot1eruser has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  50 2014-08-03 01:28:53 Zarutian has joined
  51 2014-08-03 01:29:34 CheckDavid has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
  52 2014-08-03 01:29:35 justanotheruser has joined
  53 2014-08-03 01:31:17 akstunt600 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  54 2014-08-03 01:32:02 akstunt600 has joined
  55 2014-08-03 01:35:16 weilu has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
  56 2014-08-03 01:35:17 wallet42 has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
  57 2014-08-03 01:35:36 wallet42 has joined
  58 2014-08-03 01:37:22 wallet42 has quit (Client Quit)
  59 2014-08-03 01:38:41 weilu has joined
  60 2014-08-03 01:43:04 weilu has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
  61 2014-08-03 01:44:13 Raziel has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
  62 2014-08-03 01:44:22 ValicekB has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
  63 2014-08-03 01:45:12 CheckDavid has joined
  64 2014-08-03 01:48:38 ValicekB has joined
  65 2014-08-03 01:49:56 brson has joined
  66 2014-08-03 01:51:53 mappum has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
  67 2014-08-03 01:56:42 jMyles has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
  68 2014-08-03 01:58:03 llllllllll has quit ()
  69 2014-08-03 01:59:38 MCM-Mike has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
  70 2014-08-03 02:00:34 YoY has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
  71 2014-08-03 02:00:51 justanotheruser has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  72 2014-08-03 02:02:31 YoY has joined
  73 2014-08-03 02:04:48 fabianfa_ has quit (Quit: why)
  74 2014-08-03 02:06:45 digitalmagus has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
  75 2014-08-03 02:08:17 chax has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
  76 2014-08-03 02:08:44 chax has joined
  77 2014-08-03 02:10:04 digitalmagus has joined
  78 2014-08-03 02:13:24 chax has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
  79 2014-08-03 02:17:10 Namworld has quit ()
  80 2014-08-03 02:24:31 akstunt600 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  81 2014-08-03 02:25:25 rdbell has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
  82 2014-08-03 02:25:36 akstunt600 has joined
  83 2014-08-03 02:25:58 rdbell has joined
  84 2014-08-03 02:42:21 wallet42 has joined
  85 2014-08-03 02:43:38 Zarutian has quit (Quit: Zarutian)
  86 2014-08-03 02:44:00 wallet42 has quit (Client Quit)
  87 2014-08-03 02:44:11 Subo1977 has joined
  88 2014-08-03 02:48:42 Subo1977_ has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
  89 2014-08-03 02:55:47 skizzor has quit (Quit: skizzor)
  90 2014-08-03 02:59:40 maramaya has joined
  91 2014-08-03 03:00:03 darwin_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
  92 2014-08-03 03:00:21 chax has joined
  93 2014-08-03 03:04:54 sabfer has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
  94 2014-08-03 03:17:47 akstunt600 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  95 2014-08-03 03:18:40 akstunt600 has joined
  96 2014-08-03 03:19:33 antizionist__ has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
  97 2014-08-03 03:27:46 MoALTz_ has joined
  98 2014-08-03 03:28:48 TheSeven has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
  99 2014-08-03 03:30:26 MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
 100 2014-08-03 03:30:32 TheSeven has joined
 101 2014-08-03 03:33:25 chax has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 102 2014-08-03 03:33:51 chax has joined
 103 2014-08-03 03:38:26 chax has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
 104 2014-08-03 03:41:35 drawingthesun has joined
 105 2014-08-03 03:44:11 justanotheruser has joined
 106 2014-08-03 03:47:57 Guest54969 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 107 2014-08-03 03:48:44 sahlhoff has quit (Quit: sahlhoff)
 108 2014-08-03 03:48:50 wallet42 has joined
 109 2014-08-03 03:50:27 wallet42 has quit (Client Quit)
 110 2014-08-03 03:53:04 maramaya has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
 111 2014-08-03 04:00:24 hmsimha has joined
 112 2014-08-03 04:00:51 justanotheruser has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
 113 2014-08-03 04:07:37 wallet42 has joined
 114 2014-08-03 04:09:15 wallet42 has quit (Client Quit)
 115 2014-08-03 04:10:00 wallet42 has joined
 116 2014-08-03 04:10:00 wallet42 has quit (Changing host)
 117 2014-08-03 04:10:00 wallet42 has joined
 118 2014-08-03 04:11:07 akstunt600 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 119 2014-08-03 04:12:07 akstunt600 has joined
 120 2014-08-03 04:13:07 wallet42 has quit (Client Quit)
 121 2014-08-03 04:13:48 papa3 has joined
 122 2014-08-03 04:16:54 papa2 has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
 123 2014-08-03 04:20:28 drawingthesun has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
 124 2014-08-03 04:21:29 mrkent has joined
 125 2014-08-03 04:22:10 ak_ has joined
 126 2014-08-03 04:26:06 justanotheruser has joined
 127 2014-08-03 04:26:49 robonerd has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
 128 2014-08-03 04:27:26 sahlhoff has joined
 129 2014-08-03 04:27:58 robonerd has joined
 130 2014-08-03 04:32:29 justanotheruser has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 131 2014-08-03 04:33:05 trixisowned has quit (Excess Flood)
 132 2014-08-03 04:33:45 trixisowned has joined
 133 2014-08-03 04:36:53 HM has quit (Excess Flood)
 134 2014-08-03 04:37:18 papa3 has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
 135 2014-08-03 04:39:09 MiningBuddy has quit (Excess Flood)
 136 2014-08-03 04:44:23 justanotheruser has joined
 137 2014-08-03 04:46:50 papa3 has joined
 138 2014-08-03 04:48:43 kindoge has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in)
 139 2014-08-03 04:50:26 Aido_ has joined
 140 2014-08-03 04:51:34 kindoge has joined
 141 2014-08-03 04:53:18 justanotheruser has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
 142 2014-08-03 04:53:24 Aido has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
 143 2014-08-03 04:59:48 torsthaldo has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
 144 2014-08-03 05:01:11 drewgon has quit ()
 145 2014-08-03 05:02:30 hmsimha has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
 146 2014-08-03 05:04:32 akstunt600 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 147 2014-08-03 05:04:33 ak_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 148 2014-08-03 05:04:59 justanotheruser has joined
 149 2014-08-03 05:05:00 justanotheruser has quit (Changing host)
 150 2014-08-03 05:05:00 justanotheruser has joined
 151 2014-08-03 05:05:19 akstunt600 has joined
 152 2014-08-03 05:05:19 ak_ has joined
 153 2014-08-03 05:06:33 Graet has quit (Excess Flood)
 154 2014-08-03 05:07:14 Aido has joined
 155 2014-08-03 05:09:18 Aido_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 156 2014-08-03 05:10:49 dgenr8 has quit (Quit: dgenr8)
 157 2014-08-03 05:11:08 HM has joined
 158 2014-08-03 05:11:44 Graet has joined
 159 2014-08-03 05:12:16 Graet has quit (Excess Flood)
 160 2014-08-03 05:13:03 Graet has joined
 161 2014-08-03 05:15:53 kalz has quit (Quit: exit)
 162 2014-08-03 05:17:12 rdbell has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
 163 2014-08-03 05:17:46 rdbell has joined
 164 2014-08-03 05:22:26 dub has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
 165 2014-08-03 05:23:13 ebfull has joined
 166 2014-08-03 05:23:40 kalz has joined
 167 2014-08-03 05:26:30 rdponticelli has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
 168 2014-08-03 05:26:58 rdponticelli has joined
 169 2014-08-03 05:27:12 arioBarzan has joined
 170 2014-08-03 05:33:07 dub has joined
 171 2014-08-03 05:34:00 <arioBarzan> [2014/08/02 05:32] Luke-Jr: "I hope no exchange is clueless enough to reuse addresses :x". That's interesting considering Eligius sending mined coins to 18d3HV2bm94UyY4a9DrPfoZ17sXuiDQq2B with scriptpubkey 'OP_DUP OP_HASH160 5399c3093d31e4b0af4be1215d59b857b861ad5d OP_EQUALVERIFY OP_CHECKSIG'.
 172 2014-08-03 05:35:00 <Luke-Jr> arioBarzan: Eligius is not an exchange.
 173 2014-08-03 05:36:00 <Luke-Jr> (Eligius is also non-profit and has no budget)
 174 2014-08-03 05:37:45 <Luke-Jr> arioBarzan: and yes, Eligius plans to move away from address reuse as soon as we find time to get it done regardless
 175 2014-08-03 05:41:58 <arioBarzan> in the meantime, is it possible to just switch from 'OP_DUP OP_HASH160 5399c3093d31e4b0af4be1215d59b857b861ad5d OP_EQUALVERIFY OP_CHECKSIG' to '049ef3b9f8c816f7cc4d30866af7ddada21956d29eb938d70479973d32497bd4364d55f5ac54c108bd2b8f77a4445636de97aec40243338acc738cd34b59e1fe8c OP_CHECKSIG' ?
 176 2014-08-03 05:42:01 <arioBarzan> everybody is informed thousands of times that 5399c3093d31e4b0af4be1215d59b857b861ad5d is hash160 of 049ef3b9f8c816f7cc4d30866af7ddada21956d29eb938d70479973d32497bd4364d55f5ac54c108bd2b8f77a4445636de97aec40243338acc738cd34b59e1fe8c
 177 2014-08-03 05:43:03 num1_ has quit (Quit: Leaving)
 178 2014-08-03 05:43:33 <Luke-Jr> arioBarzan: that'd be a bad idea.
 179 2014-08-03 05:43:55 <Luke-Jr> uses more UTXO set space
 180 2014-08-03 05:44:53 <arioBarzan> for sending transactions like tx/cfb6571206361f73e29895fce6da3bcff6b627f3c429c2abee0443602e44f777 it would need much less space though
 181 2014-08-03 05:44:54 saulimus has joined
 182 2014-08-03 05:45:25 <Luke-Jr> this is true.
 183 2014-08-03 05:45:57 <Luke-Jr> I, however, see no value in spending my time implementing "in the meantime" rather than fixing it properly
 184 2014-08-03 05:57:48 ak_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 185 2014-08-03 05:57:48 akstunt600 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 186 2014-08-03 05:57:59 arioBarzan has quit (Quit: Leaving...)
 187 2014-08-03 05:58:46 ak_ has joined
 188 2014-08-03 05:58:53 akstunt600 has joined
 189 2014-08-03 05:59:59 <gmaxwell> it's nuts in any case, if the few bytes saved mattered you can easily zlib them off the disk/wire.
 190 2014-08-03 06:01:07 chax has joined
 191 2014-08-03 06:09:22 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: well, I think optimising bad practice is also a bad idea ;P
 192 2014-08-03 06:09:57 <Luke-Jr> otoh, no reason we couldn't kill off the pubkeys on disk/wire either, once they're canonicalised.
 193 2014-08-03 06:10:08 <Luke-Jr> although on wire it makes a bigger DoS risk
 194 2014-08-03 06:10:13 <gmaxwell> better to optimize ephemerially than in behavior.
 195 2014-08-03 06:10:27 <gmaxwell> (but I agree)
 196 2014-08-03 06:10:57 <gmaxwell> I think arioBarzan is just being obsessive.
 197 2014-08-03 06:12:42 rdponticelli has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
 198 2014-08-03 06:13:41 arioBarzan has joined
 199 2014-08-03 06:24:10 weilu has joined
 200 2014-08-03 06:28:13 pen has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 201 2014-08-03 06:29:13 weilu has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
 202 2014-08-03 06:30:39 SwampTony has joined
 203 2014-08-03 06:31:07 Aido has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 204 2014-08-03 06:32:46 weilu has joined
 205 2014-08-03 06:33:21 Aido has joined
 206 2014-08-03 06:35:21 SwampTony has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
 207 2014-08-03 06:37:14 weilu_ has joined
 208 2014-08-03 06:37:37 weilu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 209 2014-08-03 06:42:57 skizzor has joined
 210 2014-08-03 06:49:58 weilu_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 211 2014-08-03 06:50:12 GM0127 has joined
 212 2014-08-03 06:51:05 akstunt600 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 213 2014-08-03 06:51:05 ak_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 214 2014-08-03 06:51:57 akstunt600 has joined
 215 2014-08-03 06:51:58 ak_ has joined
 216 2014-08-03 06:52:21 moarrr has joined
 217 2014-08-03 06:55:55 ionstorm has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 218 2014-08-03 07:02:15 skizzor has quit (Quit: skizzor)
 219 2014-08-03 07:02:16 Chief_Panda has joined
 220 2014-08-03 07:04:32 gnuborg has joined
 221 2014-08-03 07:06:46 sahlhoff has quit (Quit: sahlhoff)
 222 2014-08-03 07:09:35 arioBarzan has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 223 2014-08-03 07:12:04 attilah has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
 224 2014-08-03 07:12:18 attilah has joined
 225 2014-08-03 07:13:37 neozaru has joined
 226 2014-08-03 07:19:07 moarrr has left ()
 227 2014-08-03 07:19:13 moarrr has joined
 228 2014-08-03 07:19:43 DougieBot5000 has quit (Quit: Leaving)
 229 2014-08-03 07:29:18 justanotheruser has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 230 2014-08-03 07:29:34 CheckDavid has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
 231 2014-08-03 07:36:22 moarrr has quit ()
 232 2014-08-03 07:43:00 SwampTony has joined
 233 2014-08-03 07:44:14 chax has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 234 2014-08-03 07:44:36 akstunt600 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 235 2014-08-03 07:44:36 ak_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 236 2014-08-03 07:44:41 chax has joined
 237 2014-08-03 07:45:32 akstunt600 has joined
 238 2014-08-03 07:45:32 ak_ has joined
 239 2014-08-03 07:49:15 chax has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
 240 2014-08-03 07:53:14 davispuh has joined
 241 2014-08-03 07:55:46 GM0127 has quit (Quit: Leaving)
 242 2014-08-03 07:57:19 justanotheruser has joined
 243 2014-08-03 07:59:29 nullbyte has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
 244 2014-08-03 07:59:41 xenog has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 245 2014-08-03 08:00:50 lclc has joined
 246 2014-08-03 08:01:37 justanotheruser has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 247 2014-08-03 08:03:16 xenog has joined
 248 2014-08-03 08:04:16 Cryo has joined
 249 2014-08-03 08:05:18 tarantillo_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 250 2014-08-03 08:05:38 tarantillo_ has joined
 251 2014-08-03 08:08:47 edulix has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
 252 2014-08-03 08:09:49 xenog has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
 253 2014-08-03 08:14:29 edulix has joined
 254 2014-08-03 08:14:46 justanotheruser has joined
 255 2014-08-03 08:15:19 chax has joined
 256 2014-08-03 08:16:01 brson has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
 257 2014-08-03 08:17:35 brson has joined
 258 2014-08-03 08:18:17 davec has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
 259 2014-08-03 08:19:36 xenog has joined
 260 2014-08-03 08:19:37 chax has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
 261 2014-08-03 08:19:43 justanotheruser has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 262 2014-08-03 08:23:58 erasmospunk has joined
 263 2014-08-03 08:25:12 realazthat has joined
 264 2014-08-03 08:25:22 erasmospunk has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 265 2014-08-03 08:25:24 davec has joined
 266 2014-08-03 08:26:28 brson has quit (Quit: leaving)
 267 2014-08-03 08:30:51 SwampTony has quit ()
 268 2014-08-03 08:36:14 justanotheruser has joined
 269 2014-08-03 08:37:45 ak_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 270 2014-08-03 08:37:45 akstunt600 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 271 2014-08-03 08:37:48 davec has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 272 2014-08-03 08:38:35 akstunt600 has joined
 273 2014-08-03 08:38:37 ak_ has joined
 274 2014-08-03 08:42:37 justanotheruser has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 275 2014-08-03 08:49:12 justanotheruser has joined
 276 2014-08-03 08:49:30 Eiii has quit ()
 277 2014-08-03 08:49:50 MoALTz_ has quit (Quit: Leaving)
 278 2014-08-03 08:50:39 davec has joined
 279 2014-08-03 08:55:02 justanotheruser has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
 280 2014-08-03 08:59:46 justanotheruser has joined
 281 2014-08-03 09:00:06 HaltingState has quit (Quit: Leaving)
 282 2014-08-03 09:02:04 HaltingState has joined
 283 2014-08-03 09:02:19 MoALTz has joined
 284 2014-08-03 09:04:19 Namworld has joined
 285 2014-08-03 09:09:51 plaprade has joined
 286 2014-08-03 09:11:18 davec has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 287 2014-08-03 09:16:16 chax has joined
 288 2014-08-03 09:16:50 ThomasV has joined
 289 2014-08-03 09:18:11 xenog has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
 290 2014-08-03 09:18:28 davec has joined
 291 2014-08-03 09:19:57 justanotheruser has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 292 2014-08-03 09:20:27 chax has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
 293 2014-08-03 09:20:31 justanotheruser has joined
 294 2014-08-03 09:23:19 randy-waterhouse has joined
 295 2014-08-03 09:24:25 ThomasV has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
 296 2014-08-03 09:26:29 Skirmant has joined
 297 2014-08-03 09:29:54 xenog has joined
 298 2014-08-03 09:31:11 ak_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 299 2014-08-03 09:31:11 akstunt600 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 300 2014-08-03 09:31:41 jw391 has joined
 301 2014-08-03 09:31:46 chax has joined
 302 2014-08-03 09:32:01 jw391 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 303 2014-08-03 09:32:07 akstunt600 has joined
 304 2014-08-03 09:32:11 ak_ has joined
 305 2014-08-03 09:32:34 jw391 has joined
 306 2014-08-03 09:33:02 HaltingState has quit (Quit: Leaving)
 307 2014-08-03 09:36:43 chax has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
 308 2014-08-03 09:36:49 jw391 has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
 309 2014-08-03 09:39:33 justanotheruser has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 310 2014-08-03 09:44:58 jw391 has joined
 311 2014-08-03 09:50:26 rdymac has quit (Excess Flood)
 312 2014-08-03 09:51:02 rdymac has joined
 313 2014-08-03 09:55:02 jw391 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 314 2014-08-03 09:55:38 jw391 has joined
 315 2014-08-03 09:57:55 justanotheruser has joined
 316 2014-08-03 09:58:35 davispuh has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 317 2014-08-03 10:00:02 jw391 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
 318 2014-08-03 10:01:37 davispuh has joined
 319 2014-08-03 10:03:35 nn has joined
 320 2014-08-03 10:05:42 JackH has joined
 321 2014-08-03 10:06:09 Chief_Panda has quit (Quit: Leaving)
 322 2014-08-03 10:07:05 attilah has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 323 2014-08-03 10:08:23 erasmospunk has joined
 324 2014-08-03 10:10:08 YoY has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
 325 2014-08-03 10:11:04 Belxjander has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
 326 2014-08-03 10:14:22 nn has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
 327 2014-08-03 10:16:56 davec has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
 328 2014-08-03 10:21:58 closer has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
 329 2014-08-03 10:22:36 closer has joined
 330 2014-08-03 10:22:45 jw391 has joined
 331 2014-08-03 10:24:27 ak_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 332 2014-08-03 10:24:27 akstunt600 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 333 2014-08-03 10:25:04 davec has joined
 334 2014-08-03 10:25:14 akstunt600 has joined
 335 2014-08-03 10:25:15 ak_ has joined
 336 2014-08-03 10:28:40 MoALTz has quit (Quit: Leaving)
 337 2014-08-03 10:29:45 mE\Ta has joined
 338 2014-08-03 10:30:59 <sipa> ;;later tell BlueMatt seems the latest PPA is still 0.9.1, while we're at 0.9.2.1
 339 2014-08-03 10:30:59 <gribble> The operation succeeded.
 340 2014-08-03 10:32:45 ribasushi has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 341 2014-08-03 10:36:25 ribasushi has joined
 342 2014-08-03 10:36:29 jw391 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 343 2014-08-03 10:37:05 jw391 has joined
 344 2014-08-03 10:37:57 one_zero has quit ()
 345 2014-08-03 10:41:49 jw391 has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
 346 2014-08-03 10:44:54 weilu has joined
 347 2014-08-03 10:46:02 Tiraspol has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
 348 2014-08-03 10:46:31 weilu has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 349 2014-08-03 10:46:36 Tiraspol has joined
 350 2014-08-03 10:46:36 Tiraspol has quit (Changing host)
 351 2014-08-03 10:46:36 Tiraspol has joined
 352 2014-08-03 10:50:12 hmsimha has joined
 353 2014-08-03 10:53:45 xenog has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 354 2014-08-03 10:53:51 rdbell has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
 355 2014-08-03 10:54:13 wallet42 has joined
 356 2014-08-03 10:57:49 xenog has joined
 357 2014-08-03 10:59:32 hmsimha has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
 358 2014-08-03 10:59:50 Namworld has quit ()
 359 2014-08-03 11:01:40 rdbell has joined
 360 2014-08-03 11:01:46 <randy-waterhouse> GUI: ReportInvalidCertificate : Payment server found an invalid certificate:
 361 2014-08-03 11:02:17 <randy-waterhouse> if i get one of these in debug.log what does it mean?
 362 2014-08-03 11:03:48 hearn has joined
 363 2014-08-03 11:04:15 xenog has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
 364 2014-08-03 11:04:55 llllllllll has joined
 365 2014-08-03 11:06:09 phoenix54 has quit (Quit: phoenix54)
 366 2014-08-03 11:06:15 <randy-waterhouse> GUI: PaymentServer::LoadRootCAs : Loaded  133  root certificates
 367 2014-08-03 11:06:48 <randy-waterhouse> so is it only the GUI that loads up the root CAs by default or is bitcoind have the same behaviour?
 368 2014-08-03 11:08:36 <sipa> bitcoind doesn't have payment protocol support
 369 2014-08-03 11:09:54 <randy-waterhouse> so anyway for user to turn off payment protocol behaviour in GUI?
 370 2014-08-03 11:10:08 <wumpus> no, and also not planned
 371 2014-08-03 11:10:12 <randy-waterhouse> why not?
 372 2014-08-03 11:11:01 <wumpus> why would we? 
 373 2014-08-03 11:11:09 <randy-waterhouse> why kluge on a broken CA security system onto a perfectly good piece of crypto without giving user option turn it off?
 374 2014-08-03 11:11:14 <wumpus> it's open source so you can remove it if you don't like it
 375 2014-08-03 11:11:29 <randy-waterhouse> ok
 376 2014-08-03 11:11:32 <sipa> payment protocol works without PKI as well
 377 2014-08-03 11:11:42 <randy-waterhouse> sipa: how does user utrn that on?
 378 2014-08-03 11:11:45 <randy-waterhouse> turn
 379 2014-08-03 11:11:53 <sipa> by using unsigned payment requests
 380 2014-08-03 11:12:06 <wumpus> you could also simply not use it
 381 2014-08-03 11:12:08 <randy-waterhouse> but no way to remove CA without hacking the core?
 382 2014-08-03 11:12:10 hmsimha has joined
 383 2014-08-03 11:12:13 <sipa> no
 384 2014-08-03 11:12:13 <gmaxwell> randy-waterhouse: do you even have any idea what it does? it's purely additive.
 385 2014-08-03 11:12:16 <randy-waterhouse> wumpus i don't
 386 2014-08-03 11:12:27 <randy-waterhouse> i;m trying to give users options
 387 2014-08-03 11:12:31 <wumpus> very simple: do not click on bitcoin: uris that specify a payment request message, or do not pass bitcoin: URIs to the GUI as well
 388 2014-08-03 11:12:41 <sipa> randy-waterhouse: you only remove an option by disabling it
 389 2014-08-03 11:12:45 <wumpus> anyhow this seems completely dumb
 390 2014-08-03 11:12:54 <gmaxwell> randy-waterhouse: Give options where?
 391 2014-08-03 11:13:00 <randy-waterhouse> wumpus: thank you for your respectful tone
 392 2014-08-03 11:13:41 pen has joined
 393 2014-08-03 11:13:43 <wumpus> randy-waterhouse: there are zillion things that needs to be done, we had the payment request discussion years ago, if you have a better alternative feel free to introduce it but we're not going back
 394 2014-08-03 11:13:59 <randy-waterhouse> wumpus: i've been on a break
 395 2014-08-03 11:14:07 <wumpus> BTW: *all* the wallets have payment protocol support
 396 2014-08-03 11:14:30 psgs is now known as psgs|away
 397 2014-08-03 11:15:09 <wumpus> many sites use it for payment, for example bitpay and bitonic
 398 2014-08-03 11:15:10 <gmaxwell> randy-waterhouse: you suffer the disadvantage garnished by folks who were violently rude and confused who came before you with similar questions; not your fault — but talking about removing a choice as giving people a choice doesn't really sounds so exciting.
 399 2014-08-03 11:15:55 <randy-waterhouse> i'm not talkinng about removing a choice
 400 2014-08-03 11:16:06 <randy-waterhouse> i'm talking about default behaviours
 401 2014-08-03 11:16:22 <gmaxwell> all the x509 auth inside the payment protocol does is allows the payment requests to be signed and show additional information.
 402 2014-08-03 11:17:10 <gmaxwell> So basically you get a payment request and it has additional information to show whos requesting the payment, ... all you could do there is hide it. So much for choice.
 403 2014-08-03 11:17:23 <randy-waterhouse> why do the root CA's need to be loaded the first thing the client does?
 404 2014-08-03 11:17:49 <sipa> it could be delayed until they're needed, sure
 405 2014-08-03 11:17:49 ak_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 406 2014-08-03 11:17:49 akstunt600 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 407 2014-08-03 11:17:51 <wumpus> why do you care?
 408 2014-08-03 11:17:58 <gmaxwell> randy-waterhouse: Doesn't really matter when they're loaded— just a consequence of how the verifier is initilized.
 409 2014-08-03 11:18:05 <randy-waterhouse> wumpus: are you intentionally trying to block my questioning?
 410 2014-08-03 11:18:06 <wumpus> it's useful to have them available
 411 2014-08-03 11:18:16 <wumpus> randy-waterhouse: yes - I think it's a waste of time
 412 2014-08-03 11:18:21 <gmaxwell> randy-waterhouse: Are you intentionally trying to sound like you completely misunderstand what it does?
 413 2014-08-03 11:18:24 <randy-waterhouse> sipa:  so it could be delayed?
 414 2014-08-03 11:18:31 <sipa> randy-waterhouse: yes, but why?
 415 2014-08-03 11:18:37 <randy-waterhouse> just wondering
 416 2014-08-03 11:18:39 <gmaxwell> It would be functionally indistinguishable.
 417 2014-08-03 11:18:40 <wumpus> sure, put a delay(1000) before it
 418 2014-08-03 11:18:47 ak_ has joined
 419 2014-08-03 11:18:48 akstunt600 has joined
 420 2014-08-03 11:18:57 <wumpus> if a user opens a payment request before that, do assert(0)
 421 2014-08-03 11:19:09 <randy-waterhouse> ok so there is no reason then to not give the user the option to turn it off?
 422 2014-08-03 11:19:18 <sipa> they're only used verify signed payment requests
 423 2014-08-03 11:19:18 <gmaxwell> turn what off?
 424 2014-08-03 11:19:28 <gmaxwell> randy-waterhouse: what do you actually think this does?
 425 2014-08-03 11:19:44 <sipa> if you turn it off, you won't be able to use signed payment requests
 426 2014-08-03 11:19:49 <wumpus> why do you waste brain cycles about this at all? importing all the CAs maybe takes a few milliseconds
 427 2014-08-03 11:20:13 <randy-waterhouse> thanks for all your responses
 428 2014-08-03 11:20:16 <wumpus> if you want to speed up GUI startup, there is much more low hanging fruit
 429 2014-08-03 11:20:52 <randy-waterhouse> wont touch that wasp nest again
 430 2014-08-03 11:21:07 <gmaxwell> randy-waterhouse: You still haven't answered my question.
 431 2014-08-03 11:21:19 <randy-waterhouse> gmaxwell: sorry, which one?
 432 2014-08-03 11:21:35 <randy-waterhouse> who do i think it does?
 433 2014-08-03 11:21:37 <randy-waterhouse> what
 434 2014-08-03 11:21:40 <gmaxwell> randy-waterhouse: What do you think the software is doing (that you'd like it to not be doing)
 435 2014-08-03 11:22:10 <randy-waterhouse> loading up root CA
 436 2014-08-03 11:22:20 <randy-waterhouse> s
 437 2014-08-03 11:22:24 <gmaxwell> randy-waterhouse: What do you think that means?
 438 2014-08-03 11:23:03 <gmaxwell> As in what actions do you think its performing, or— alternatively— what consequence do you expect it to have for the user?
 439 2014-08-03 11:23:12 <randy-waterhouse> it's pulling them into RAM
 440 2014-08-03 11:23:30 <gmaxwell> From?
 441 2014-08-03 11:23:32 torsthaldo has joined
 442 2014-08-03 11:23:37 <randy-waterhouse> th HD
 443 2014-08-03 11:23:51 <gmaxwell> And this harms the user how?
 444 2014-08-03 11:24:04 <randy-waterhouse> well it just interrogated his HD
 445 2014-08-03 11:24:19 <randy-waterhouse> with piece of bitcoin netowrk connected s/ware
 446 2014-08-03 11:24:46 <gmaxwell> randy-waterhouse: starting bitcoin involves reading hundreds of megabytes of data off the hd.
 447 2014-08-03 11:24:58 <randy-waterhouse> usually only from the users ./bitcoin folder
 448 2014-08-03 11:25:19 <wumpus> if your perceived problem is memory usage or I/O, I suggest to do memory profiling first to find out whether it actually figures into the large amount of that already done by bitcoin on regular basis
 449 2014-08-03 11:25:19 rdponticelli has joined
 450 2014-08-03 11:25:20 <sipa> it also reads several shared libraries from disk
 451 2014-08-03 11:25:28 <sipa> how is that any different?
 452 2014-08-03 11:25:36 <randy-waterhouse> sipa: I'm tlakinng about user space data
 453 2014-08-03 11:25:40 <gmaxwell> randy-waterhouse: it also reads OS libraries— which is the same place the certificates come from.
 454 2014-08-03 11:25:47 <sipa> shared libraries are user space
 455 2014-08-03 11:26:01 atgreen has joined
 456 2014-08-03 11:26:11 <sipa> as is the CA data
 457 2014-08-03 11:26:16 <sipa> it all comes from your OS
 458 2014-08-03 11:27:05 <wumpus> Qt also reads font data from your OS
 459 2014-08-03 11:27:25 <gmaxwell> yep, works pretty much like fonts, now that you mention it.
 460 2014-08-03 11:27:32 <sipa> my impression is that for some reason you believe "CAs are evil" (and, admittedly, they're a broken system, but it's the only one that works), and are trying to argue by all means possible that this must be avoided, without understanding how they impact users' security in bitcoin
 461 2014-08-03 11:28:05 <randy-waterhouse> well knwoing what CA's a user has on their system is different than knowing what fonts they have ...
 462 2014-08-03 11:28:26 <randy-waterhouse> it is not that CA\s are evil ...
 463 2014-08-03 11:28:41 <wumpus> anyhow if your local system is already compromised, LD_PRELOAD=xxx will do for loading anything into bitcoin's address space, an exploit coming in through a buffer overflow in CA data is extremely far-fetched
 464 2014-08-03 11:28:56 <wumpus> well I know more people that haphazardly install fonts on their machine than CA certificates...
 465 2014-08-03 11:29:04 <randy-waterhouse> why should the user have to interact with that system without first being given the choice is my real question I suppose
 466 2014-08-03 11:29:12 <sipa> randy-waterhouse: they have a choice
 467 2014-08-03 11:29:17 <gmaxwell> randy-waterhouse: interact with what system???
 468 2014-08-03 11:29:18 <sipa> they don't have to use signed payment requests
 469 2014-08-03 11:29:47 <sipa> should we also have to ability to disable loading fonts?
 470 2014-08-03 11:29:53 <gmaxwell> randy-waterhouse: this is a purely local behavior. No data is sent to any CAs.  It loads up keys so that when it recieves a signed payment request that has CA attestation of the identity it can display that. Thats it.
 471 2014-08-03 11:30:03 <wumpus> I want an option for routing all network packets to the sound card for inspection!
 472 2014-08-03 11:30:14 <randy-waterhouse> ok i don't want to start anything, thanks for you help
 473 2014-08-03 11:30:37 <gmaxwell> randy-waterhouse: Well I'm honestly trying to figure out what threat model is concerning you here; because so far I can't figure out what your concern is.
 474 2014-08-03 11:30:59 <sipa> why is knowing what fonts a user has different than knowing what CAs he has?
 475 2014-08-03 11:31:21 <gmaxwell> sipa: well it would be unfortunate if we transmitted either of those things.
 476 2014-08-03 11:31:28 FManTropyx has joined
 477 2014-08-03 11:31:52 <sipa> agree, though only if either is somehow non-standard
 478 2014-08-03 11:31:54 <wumpus> I honestly think there is zero demand for such an option. Many people use payment requests, mostly without noticing it, they wouldn't intentionally sabotage their own usage. On the other hand, people that don't care about bitcoin: URIs and such simply don't use them.
 479 2014-08-03 11:32:27 <wumpus> gmaxwell: oh certainly, but unlike web browsers we don't
 480 2014-08-03 11:32:29 <randy-waterhouse> wumpus: but not exactly zero
 481 2014-08-03 11:32:31 REiN^ has joined
 482 2014-08-03 11:32:39 <wumpus> randy-waterhouse: it doen't have to be exactly zero
 483 2014-08-03 11:33:14 <wumpus> randy-waterhouse: at a certain point the overhead of testing and maintaining something, as well as the increase in code size (and messages to translate, etc) isn't worth it
 484 2014-08-03 11:33:20 <gmaxwell> randy-waterhouse: I still don't understand the threat you're concerned about.
 485 2014-08-03 11:34:11 <randy-waterhouse> gmaxwell: maybe there is none, i'm naturally suspicious ... and curious how it works
 486 2014-08-03 11:34:31 <randy-waterhouse> the defensive of the responses has been a bit surprising
 487 2014-08-03 11:35:04 <sipa> sorry for that, but we've seen too much pointless debate about this already (not talking about you)
 488 2014-08-03 11:35:58 psgs is now known as away!~psgs@2001:41d0:1:68a3::39|psgs
 489 2014-08-03 11:36:14 <sipa> still, if you start arguing that "reading data from disk" is somehow a problem, it sounds like you're trying to come up with excuses
 490 2014-08-03 11:37:23 <gmaxwell> randy-waterhouse: I don't think it should be surprising— you're not making a coherent explination for your concern there— it's very weird and distressing.  There was someone on bitcointalk forum who was seemingly mentally ill and though that this worked by sendinging all the data to the CAs, couldn't be covinced otherwise, and was throwing around threats about it— perhaps you're him?
 491 2014-08-03 11:37:54 <randy-waterhouse> gmaxwell: wasn't me ... but the implication is noted
 492 2014-08-03 11:37:54 <gmaxwell> (I don't mean that as a accusation— but just to point out why no one is super eager to have a bunch of additional vague noise made about it)
 493 2014-08-03 11:38:17 <randy-waterhouse> second time ... let's drop it
 494 2014-08-03 11:38:47 weilu has joined
 495 2014-08-03 11:39:17 <gmaxwell> randy-waterhouse: besides, if you don't want it loading any certs you could have just given it an empty cert list... e.g. -rootcertificates=""
 496 2014-08-03 11:39:59 <randy-waterhouse> gmaxwell: thank you that was the option i was wondering if existed
 497 2014-08-03 11:40:08 <gmaxwell> (actual application for that is if you have a distinct cert store for your payment requests certs— e.g. org private ones, but you can use it to get nothing at all)
 498 2014-08-03 11:40:47 <gmaxwell> randy-waterhouse: Ah, it's in the commandline help.
 499 2014-08-03 11:41:32 <gmaxwell> (I wouldn't recommend setting it that way— since all it'll accomplish is making signed payment requests no longer authenticate :) )
 500 2014-08-03 11:41:41 <gmaxwell> But in any case, there you go.
 501 2014-08-03 11:41:58 <randy-waterhouse> bitcoin-cli --help
 502 2014-08-03 11:42:00 <randy-waterhouse> ?
 503 2014-08-03 11:42:08 <wumpus> bitcoin-qt --help
 504 2014-08-03 11:42:42 <randy-waterhouse> and it notes about empty field option?
 505 2014-08-03 11:43:00 <randy-waterhouse> i'll check it
 506 2014-08-03 11:43:19 <gmaxwell> randy-waterhouse: this functionality is not part of bitcoin-cli or the daemon; its only a GUI feature.
 507 2014-08-03 11:43:29 <randy-waterhouse> first time building >0.8 clients btw
 508 2014-08-03 11:43:30 <gmaxwell> (payment requests at all)
 509 2014-08-03 11:44:04 <gmaxwell> So only the gui has the option set the certificate store.
 510 2014-08-03 11:44:04 <randy-waterhouse> gmaxwell: yep, that's what sipa implied
 511 2014-08-03 11:44:11 <randy-waterhouse> right, clear
 512 2014-08-03 11:44:33 <wumpus> the help message doesn't say that providing an empty filename will load nothing at all, feel free to add that
 513 2014-08-03 11:45:11 <wumpus> (that behavior is implemented tho)
 514 2014-08-03 11:45:49 <randy-waterhouse> wumpus: thanks ... i might do that ... just doing some build work right now though
 515 2014-08-03 11:46:11 <wumpus>     // Note: use "-system-" default here so that users can pass -rootcertificates=""
 516 2014-08-03 11:46:11 <wumpus>     // and get 'I don't like X.509 certificates, don't trust anybody' behavior:
 517 2014-08-03 11:46:16 <wumpus> haha it's in the source
 518 2014-08-03 11:46:27 <randy-waterhouse> well there ya go
 519 2014-08-03 11:46:53 <wumpus> yeah I still think it's pointless, but if it makes you happy there you go
 520 2014-08-03 11:47:00 <randy-waterhouse> it is the don't trust anybody currency after all
 521 2014-08-03 11:47:09 <randy-waterhouse> or at leas that is what satoshi called it
 522 2014-08-03 11:47:26 <gmaxwell> randy-waterhouse: setting -rootcertificates="" doesn't avoid trusting someone.
 523 2014-08-03 11:47:39 psgs is now known as psgs|away
 524 2014-08-03 11:47:44 <randy-waterhouse> strange that it is commente dlike that in the source though
 525 2014-08-03 11:48:02 <gmaxwell> randy-waterhouse: yes, its a result of the threats.
 526 2014-08-03 11:48:03 <randy-waterhouse> wonder who wrote that?
 527 2014-08-03 11:48:09 <gmaxwell> gavin did.
 528 2014-08-03 11:48:32 <randy-waterhouse> maybe he was joking
 529 2014-08-03 11:48:49 <sipa> bitcoin is trustless to the extent possible, but it does not cover for example how you get a recipient's key to send to
 530 2014-08-03 11:49:09 <sipa> that has always been something the user needed a different mechanism for, and likely one that involves some trust
 531 2014-08-03 11:49:20 <wumpus> trusting no one is as bad as a security policy as trusting everyone, you need a base level of trust in the person you're transacting with (and not in, say, thieves that try to steal the coins along the way) but anyhow that's off-topic here
 532 2014-08-03 11:49:25 <sipa> (trust your webbrowser if it comes from a site, your email provider if it is mailed, ...)
 533 2014-08-03 11:49:34 <randy-waterhouse> sipa: yeah, maybe it should have been left for side channels to take care of ...
 534 2014-08-03 11:49:42 <gmaxwell> randy-waterhouse: it still is
 535 2014-08-03 11:49:57 <gmaxwell> You're doing a fantastic job of convincing me that you don't actually understand what this does.
 536 2014-08-03 11:49:57 <randy-waterhouse> but it is attached the core client
 537 2014-08-03 11:50:06 <sipa> payment protocol just offers an _optional_ way of covering that
 538 2014-08-03 11:50:16 <sipa> and _optionally_ it supports signing to deal with that trust
 539 2014-08-03 11:50:40 <sipa> randy-waterhouse: if it wasn't implemented in the core client, no other wallet would have adopted it
 540 2014-08-03 11:50:54 <sipa> it's just the way for setting a standard
 541 2014-08-03 11:50:58 <wumpus> in a way this is like preferring http to https because you know that http is untrusted, but then still using the web for banking
 542 2014-08-03 11:50:59 jw391 has joined
 543 2014-08-03 11:51:01 <gmaxwell> You get your payment request via whatever mechnism you get your payment request. And optionally the payment request can include an additional signature from a x509 identity. Thats it. No black helecopters.
 544 2014-08-03 11:51:20 <sipa> wumpus: nice comparison
 545 2014-08-03 11:51:26 <wumpus> signed payment requests protect against a very realistic man-in-the-middle attack
 546 2014-08-03 11:52:02 <randy-waterhouse> well that's all the theory ... right now i'm just trying to figure out what the code does on the network and the users hardware
 547 2014-08-03 11:52:03 sirk390 has joined
 548 2014-08-03 11:52:04 <gmaxwell> If you turn off the certificate store you can't do anything with that x509 identity, so you're strictly less secure... since it couldn't have made you any weaker.
 549 2014-08-03 11:52:29 sipa has left ()
 550 2014-08-03 11:52:33 <randy-waterhouse> gmaxwell: i'm reserving judgement on that last point until i see for myself
 551 2014-08-03 11:52:43 <gmaxwell> randy-waterhouse: it doesn't do anything on the network.
 552 2014-08-03 11:52:48 <gmaxwell> oh god you are that crazy person
 553 2014-08-03 11:52:49 gmaxwell has left ()
 554 2014-08-03 11:52:54 haskoiner has joined
 555 2014-08-03 11:55:52 <randy-waterhouse>             “the people who are crazy enough to think they can change the world are the ones who do.”
 556 2014-08-03 11:55:52 <randy-waterhouse>   ―     Steve Jobs
 557 2014-08-03 11:55:57 MoALTz has joined
 558 2014-08-03 11:57:38 jw391 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 559 2014-08-03 11:58:24 jw391 has joined
 560 2014-08-03 11:58:43 AnoAnon has joined
 561 2014-08-03 11:58:55 AnoAnon has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 562 2014-08-03 12:02:40 YoY has joined
 563 2014-08-03 12:02:59 jw391 has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
 564 2014-08-03 12:05:43 cagedwisdom has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 565 2014-08-03 12:07:25 agath_pd is now known as agath
 566 2014-08-03 12:10:39 randy-waterhouse has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
 567 2014-08-03 12:14:27 Raziel has joined
 568 2014-08-03 12:15:42 karc has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
 569 2014-08-03 12:19:39 Emzy has joined
 570 2014-08-03 12:20:42 karc has joined
 571 2014-08-03 12:27:40 HANTI is now known as hanti
 572 2014-08-03 12:31:46 skizzor has joined
 573 2014-08-03 12:33:41 rdbell has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
 574 2014-08-03 12:34:13 rdbell has joined
 575 2014-08-03 12:37:57 non2 has joined
 576 2014-08-03 12:38:40 rdbell has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
 577 2014-08-03 12:39:27 tumak_ has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
 578 2014-08-03 12:39:35 pierre` has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
 579 2014-08-03 12:39:41 thermoman has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
 580 2014-08-03 12:39:42 wiretapped has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
 581 2014-08-03 12:40:05 hearn has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
 582 2014-08-03 12:41:35 wiretapped has joined
 583 2014-08-03 12:44:31 non2 has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
 584 2014-08-03 12:45:18 hearn has joined
 585 2014-08-03 12:45:36 owowo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 586 2014-08-03 12:47:55 non2 has joined
 587 2014-08-03 12:48:56 sipa has joined
 588 2014-08-03 12:57:10 owowo has joined
 589 2014-08-03 12:58:52 jw391 has joined
 590 2014-08-03 13:01:32 CheckDavid has joined
 591 2014-08-03 13:03:29 jw391 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 592 2014-08-03 13:04:23 akstunt600 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 593 2014-08-03 13:04:23 ak_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 594 2014-08-03 13:04:48 gnuborg has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 595 2014-08-03 13:05:07 akstunt600 has joined
 596 2014-08-03 13:05:17 skizzor has left ()
 597 2014-08-03 13:05:27 ak_ has joined
 598 2014-08-03 13:13:32 Grouver has joined
 599 2014-08-03 13:13:47 gjj has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
 600 2014-08-03 13:21:54 mrkent has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
 601 2014-08-03 13:31:10 Emzy_ has joined
 602 2014-08-03 13:31:10 Emzy_ has quit (Client Quit)
 603 2014-08-03 13:31:40 sabfer has joined
 604 2014-08-03 13:35:59 sneak has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 605 2014-08-03 13:36:17 sabfer has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 606 2014-08-03 13:36:48 sneak has joined
 607 2014-08-03 13:39:24 benrcole has joined
 608 2014-08-03 13:39:49 gjj has joined
 609 2014-08-03 13:39:54 belcher has joined
 610 2014-08-03 13:41:36 hmsimha has quit (Quit: Leaving)
 611 2014-08-03 13:42:14 sabfer has joined
 612 2014-08-03 13:43:00 benrcole has quit (Client Quit)
 613 2014-08-03 13:45:03 cym has joined
 614 2014-08-03 13:45:03 wallet42 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 615 2014-08-03 13:45:30 wallet42 has joined
 616 2014-08-03 13:45:39 fanquake has left ()
 617 2014-08-03 13:46:49 cym is now known as pen_
 618 2014-08-03 13:47:37 pen has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
 619 2014-08-03 13:47:51 pen_ is now known as pen
 620 2014-08-03 13:54:45 Emzy has quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)
 621 2014-08-03 13:55:04 pierre` has joined
 622 2014-08-03 13:55:35 Emzy has joined
 623 2014-08-03 13:57:36 benrcole has joined
 624 2014-08-03 13:57:41 Belxjander has joined
 625 2014-08-03 13:57:47 ak_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 626 2014-08-03 13:57:47 akstunt600 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 627 2014-08-03 13:58:31 ak_ has joined
 628 2014-08-03 13:58:31 akstunt600 has joined
 629 2014-08-03 13:59:28 jw391 has joined
 630 2014-08-03 14:03:45 jw391 has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
 631 2014-08-03 14:04:22 wallet42 has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
 632 2014-08-03 14:05:36 chax has joined
 633 2014-08-03 14:05:58 MoALTz_ has joined
 634 2014-08-03 14:08:44 HaltingState has joined
 635 2014-08-03 14:08:57 MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
 636 2014-08-03 14:09:05 benrcole has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
 637 2014-08-03 14:10:35 altoz has joined
 638 2014-08-03 14:20:22 Zarutian has joined
 639 2014-08-03 14:20:32 HaltingState has quit (Quit: Leaving)
 640 2014-08-03 14:23:19 daybyter has joined
 641 2014-08-03 14:30:44 weilu has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 642 2014-08-03 14:31:11 MoALTz_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 643 2014-08-03 14:31:39 weilu has joined
 644 2014-08-03 14:31:51 gnuborg has joined
 645 2014-08-03 14:32:13 MoALTz_ has joined
 646 2014-08-03 14:33:04 xenog has joined
 647 2014-08-03 14:34:41 phoenix53 has joined
 648 2014-08-03 14:36:07 gnuborg has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
 649 2014-08-03 14:37:07 hearn has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
 650 2014-08-03 14:38:39 Aido_ has joined
 651 2014-08-03 14:41:04 Aido has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
 652 2014-08-03 14:41:14 llllllllll has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
 653 2014-08-03 14:41:28 Zarutian has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
 654 2014-08-03 14:42:17 jcorgan_ has joined
 655 2014-08-03 14:43:42 Zarutian has joined
 656 2014-08-03 14:44:49 shesek has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
 657 2014-08-03 14:49:52 daybyter has quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
 658 2014-08-03 14:51:02 ak_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 659 2014-08-03 14:51:02 akstunt600 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 660 2014-08-03 14:51:20 jw391 has joined
 661 2014-08-03 14:51:48 ak_ has joined
 662 2014-08-03 14:52:05 akstunt600 has joined
 663 2014-08-03 14:52:49 jcorgan_ has quit (Quit: jcorgan_)
 664 2014-08-03 14:55:27 jw391 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
 665 2014-08-03 14:57:27 jcorgan_ has joined
 666 2014-08-03 14:57:44 shesek has joined
 667 2014-08-03 15:02:28 <jcorgan_> wumpus: ping
 668 2014-08-03 15:03:03 <wumpus> pong
 669 2014-08-03 15:04:17 t7 has joined
 670 2014-08-03 15:04:43 <jcorgan_> just wondering your thoughts on merging the zmq branch.
 671 2014-08-03 15:05:02 tombtc has quit (Quit: quit)
 672 2014-08-03 15:05:18 Subo1977_ has joined
 673 2014-08-03 15:05:24 nullbyte has joined
 674 2014-08-03 15:05:24 nullbyte has quit (Changing host)
 675 2014-08-03 15:05:24 nullbyte has joined
 676 2014-08-03 15:05:24 <jcorgan_> unfortunately i haven't gotten much feedback from testers though of course it is working fine for me in all my testing
 677 2014-08-03 15:05:32 llllllllll has joined
 678 2014-08-03 15:06:06 gnuborg has joined
 679 2014-08-03 15:06:44 <wumpus> well it certainly needs more testing
 680 2014-08-03 15:07:28 <wumpus> it helps that it's a no-op with zmq disabled
 681 2014-08-03 15:08:12 <jcorgan_> more testing is a given, i was thinking more along the lines of, "does this work the way it should?"
 682 2014-08-03 15:08:28 <wumpus> I don't see anything obviously wrong with it
 683 2014-08-03 15:09:07 Subo1977 has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
 684 2014-08-03 15:09:31 <jcorgan_> no worries, then.  i may implement some more simple utilities that talk to the new zmq port and add to the branch, but that isn't certain
 685 2014-08-03 15:09:35 <wumpus> one question: why do you dispatch ZMQPublishBlock from AcceptBlock, and not from ActivateBestChain like the current notify?
 686 2014-08-03 15:10:02 <wumpus> I'd say having it compatible with blocknotify makes the transition easier
 687 2014-08-03 15:10:36 <jcorgan_> i wanted to publish all the blocks that would be added to the index; that dispatch location immediately follows the calls to do that
 688 2014-08-03 15:11:02 <jcorgan_> but that's very easy to change
 689 2014-08-03 15:12:18 <sipa> i don't think you should publish every block that gets added to the index
 690 2014-08-03 15:12:24 <sipa> there's no guarantee they are valid
 691 2014-08-03 15:13:08 <jcorgan_> i don't have the code in front of me, but doesn't that immediately follow all the checks?  accept block passes before adding to the index, iirc
 692 2014-08-03 15:13:25 <wumpus> also: -blocknotify doesn't launch during the initial sync, because the frequency of blocks can be extremely high during that, do you need anything similar for this?
 693 2014-08-03 15:13:30 <sipa> accept block does not imply that it's valid
 694 2014-08-03 15:13:37 <sipa> only when it's activated you know that it is
 695 2014-08-03 15:13:56 <sipa> scripts and utxo based checks are only done when activating
 696 2014-08-03 15:14:15 <jcorgan_> understood then
 697 2014-08-03 15:14:58 <jcorgan_> i'm away from my dev box atm but i can easily change it to a better location
 698 2014-08-03 15:15:50 <jcorgan_> also, if you want to make it so that it doesn't broadcast during initial sync or reindex i think that's just an if statement on a bool
 699 2014-08-03 15:16:18 <wumpus> jcorgan_: well that was a question
 700 2014-08-03 15:16:50 <wumpus> it could be that zmq does it's own rate limiting, but at a certain point during initial sync all those events were injected into qt's event queue and that didn't go very well :)
 701 2014-08-03 15:16:53 <jcorgan_> the port is buffered
 702 2014-08-03 15:17:11 <jcorgan_> and it has a default high water mark of 1000 messages
 703 2014-08-03 15:17:26 <jcorgan_> if there is no client connected, they all get immediate dropped anyway
 704 2014-08-03 15:17:36 <sipa> which means that if you have a listener which is slow, it'll slow down reindexing?
 705 2014-08-03 15:18:11 <jcorgan_> no, if the listener is slow it will eventually have gaps from discarded messages
 706 2014-08-03 15:18:35 e4xit has joined
 707 2014-08-03 15:19:00 <jcorgan_> the sending side just enqueues the message (block) and returns; a separate thread is responsible for playing those messages out to the listeners
 708 2014-08-03 15:19:32 <sipa> ic
 709 2014-08-03 15:19:34 <jcorgan_> and if they can't keep up, it just discards the overflow to that listener
 710 2014-08-03 15:22:07 <jcorgan_> i like having the broadcast during sync since i can have a listener always running, and start and stop bitcoind, and the listener will get everything
 711 2014-08-03 15:22:38 Iriez has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
 712 2014-08-03 15:23:46 jw391 has joined
 713 2014-08-03 15:24:39 jw391 has quit (Read error: No route to host)
 714 2014-08-03 15:24:52 jw391 has joined
 715 2014-08-03 15:25:56 <michagogo> ;;google zmq
 716 2014-08-03 15:25:56 sabfer has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 717 2014-08-03 15:25:56 <gribble> Code Connected - zeromq: <http://zeromq.org/>; Learn the Basics - zeromq: <http://zeromq.org/intro:read-the-manual>; ØMQ - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%98MQ>
 718 2014-08-03 15:26:07 <jcorgan_> i was thinking of writing a listener that could be used to monitor arbitrary utxo events, basically filtering for incoming txouts to a destination address, or when a utxo gets spent onward
 719 2014-08-03 15:26:45 sabfer has joined
 720 2014-08-03 15:26:47 <jcorgan_> this would solve the "how to do i watch for incoming payments to an address i just gave out" requests
 721 2014-08-03 15:27:15 <jcorgan_> even if the address is not in bitcoind's wallet
 722 2014-08-03 15:27:44 <michagogo> What is this for?
 723 2014-08-03 15:27:55 <jcorgan_> ?
 724 2014-08-03 15:27:57 <sipa> use a watch-only wallet, and install listeners on that
 725 2014-08-03 15:28:01 <sipa> will be much more efficient
 726 2014-08-03 15:28:14 <sipa> as you don't need to transport every event to another process before it can be filtered
 727 2014-08-03 15:28:38 <michagogo> What are we talking about using this zmq thing for? I don't think I understand what it is...
 728 2014-08-03 15:28:39 <sipa> plus you won't miss anything
 729 2014-08-03 15:29:02 <jcorgan_> michagogo: read pull request 4594
 730 2014-08-03 15:29:32 <michagogo> We need a bot (gribble module maybe?) that works like ubottu
 731 2014-08-03 15:29:47 <michagogo> and automatically links to PRs, issues, etc when they're mentioned
 732 2014-08-03 15:29:49 Zarutian has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 733 2014-08-03 15:30:10 <jcorgan_> it's a simple facility for bitcoind to publish incoming blocks and txes from the P2P network after it vets them, using zmq as a lightweight transport
 734 2014-08-03 15:30:38 <jcorgan_> so you can write independent applications that operate on that information, without making any changes to bitcoind
 735 2014-08-03 15:32:15 <jcorgan_> think of it as using bitcoind like a trusted "border router", doing all the hard work (consensus, validation), and then you can have other, simpler apps doing whatever internally
 736 2014-08-03 15:32:16 Zarutian has joined
 737 2014-08-03 15:32:33 <sipa> for something like tracking utxos, i think this is too low level
 738 2014-08-03 15:32:44 <sipa> especially if the channel is potentially lossy
 739 2014-08-03 15:32:57 jMyles has joined
 740 2014-08-03 15:33:02 <wumpus> tracking utxo's should be done by bitcoind itself
 741 2014-08-03 15:33:44 <jcorgan_> i look at it as just letting admins to whatever they want in a simple way; the uxto tracking example was just an idea
 742 2014-08-03 15:35:47 weilu has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 743 2014-08-03 15:35:47 <wumpus> though ofc you could use a notification mechanism to watch for changes to the utxo set, if that's what you mean with tracking it makes some sense
 744 2014-08-03 15:36:20 <wumpus> do clients get a notification if they lost events?
 745 2014-08-03 15:37:14 <wumpus> if so, they could reset the tracking in that case
 746 2014-08-03 15:37:16 <jcorgan_> not sure, but i don't think so.  more sophisticated message passing systems like rabbitmq have persistence and guaranteed delivery; zmq is designed to be much simpler
 747 2014-08-03 15:38:09 <wumpus> right
 748 2014-08-03 15:38:14 <jcorgan_> i had considered adding an outer envelope to the notification messages that added sequence numbers and timestamp, but then everyone would have to deframe those
 749 2014-08-03 15:40:01 <wumpus> guarantees are very difficult anyway: even the fork-based notification could fail
 750 2014-08-03 15:40:26 jtimon has joined
 751 2014-08-03 15:40:48 <jcorgan_> of course, someone could write a simple framer app that listened to bitcoind's pub port, added sequence numbers and timestamp, then republished them on a new port
 752 2014-08-03 15:41:03 <jcorgan_> that sort of the whole philosophy around message passing apps
 753 2014-08-03 15:41:12 <wumpus> but then the messages could get lost on the way there! :p
 754 2014-08-03 15:41:19 <jcorgan_> true, dat
 755 2014-08-03 15:41:24 <wumpus> if you want to add timestamps and sequence numbers, the place would be at the origin
 756 2014-08-03 15:41:43 <jcorgan_> agree, but wanted to make this the "simplest thing that could possibly work"
 757 2014-08-03 15:41:50 hearn has joined
 758 2014-08-03 15:42:01 <sipa> or don't consider those messages as data, but purely as notifications
 759 2014-08-03 15:42:01 jw391 has quit ()
 760 2014-08-03 15:42:03 <wumpus> it would also need a notification on bitcoind start
 761 2014-08-03 15:42:07 <sipa> "something new happened, check it"
 762 2014-08-03 15:42:14 <wumpus> sipa: yeah
 763 2014-08-03 15:42:31 <jcorgan_> right now, the pub port has two "topics"-- "BLK" and "TXN"
 764 2014-08-03 15:42:44 <jcorgan_> but later we could add "EVT" and have our own set of messages
 765 2014-08-03 15:42:58 <jcorgan_> to notify of all sorts of things asynchronously, like reorgs
 766 2014-08-03 15:43:31 <wumpus> sipa: after the notification that something changed it can always pull the data it needs
 767 2014-08-03 15:43:51 <sipa> unless you can guarantee delivery, i think that's always what should happen
 768 2014-08-03 15:43:55 <wumpus> it's an extra roundtrip, but far from problematic for messages that you expect once every 10 minutes on average
 769 2014-08-03 15:44:06 <sipa> so i'm not sure that even passing the actual block data is that useful
 770 2014-08-03 15:44:14 <sipa> it encourages relying on seeing it
 771 2014-08-03 15:44:24 ak_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 772 2014-08-03 15:44:24 akstunt600 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 773 2014-08-03 15:44:56 <jcorgan_> even bitcoind isn't guaranteed to see all the blocks published on the p2p
 774 2014-08-03 15:45:07 akstunt600 has joined
 775 2014-08-03 15:45:09 ak_ has joined
 776 2014-08-03 15:45:24 <michagogo> 18:35:57 <wumpus> but then the messages could get lost on the way there! :p 18:36:09 <wumpus> if you want to add timestamps and sequence numbers, the place would be at the origin
 777 2014-08-03 15:45:24 <michagogo> Uh, you could run the framer on the same machine, I'd assume
 778 2014-08-03 15:45:39 <wumpus> michagogo: that still provides zero guarantee
 779 2014-08-03 15:46:19 <michagogo> Hm? Might some-but-not-all packets be lost on localhost? o_O
 780 2014-08-03 15:46:22 <wumpus> it's easy to get buffers overruns, for example a machine could be busy swapping GB's of data out at that moment
 781 2014-08-03 15:46:42 <michagogo> oic
 782 2014-08-03 15:46:44 aquarat has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
 783 2014-08-03 15:47:25 <jcorgan_> i think the idea is that what you get over zmq is like UDP; no guarantees of arrival
 784 2014-08-03 15:47:43 <jcorgan_> though they'd never be duplicated or out of order
 785 2014-08-03 15:47:59 <sipa> jcorgan_: if you want to see the UDP publishing as a replacement for the P2P relaying, sure - then it should publish blocks on it whenever new blocks are added the the best chain (and all of them)
 786 2014-08-03 15:48:24 <sipa> jcorgan_: but if you want it as a validated-notification-of-new-best-chain, it should just be a single message "new best tip; go check it out"
 787 2014-08-03 15:48:40 <jcorgan_> i see both as useful
 788 2014-08-03 15:48:53 <sipa> yes, perhaps
 789 2014-08-03 15:49:11 <jcorgan_> so a new topic, "EVT", with "new best tip" as one event type
 790 2014-08-03 15:49:23 <jcorgan_> and then the listener could call RPC
 791 2014-08-03 15:49:59 <wumpus> but if you want guarantees of delivery (for example by using a TCP stream instead of zmq), it will block the sender if the buffer is full
 792 2014-08-03 15:50:14 <jcorgan_> but for me the zmq feature originated in having a simple way to listen to the P2P without having to do much work
 793 2014-08-03 15:50:21 Emzy has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
 794 2014-08-03 15:50:56 <jcorgan_> and to not duplicate/mis-implement all the consensus and validation stuff that bitcoin already does
 795 2014-08-03 15:51:04 <jcorgan_> bitcoind
 796 2014-08-03 15:51:06 <wumpus> unless you write notifications to disk or a database or something like that ofcourse...
 797 2014-08-03 15:51:27 <wumpus> that's what rabbitmq does
 798 2014-08-03 15:51:31 Iriez has joined
 799 2014-08-03 15:51:35 <jcorgan_> yes, my listener app is enqueuing messages as blobs in a sqlite database
 800 2014-08-03 15:52:23 rdymac has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 801 2014-08-03 15:52:44 <jcorgan_> and another app is then dequeuing them as needed
 802 2014-08-03 15:53:00 <wumpus> after it already went through a lossy channel?
 803 2014-08-03 15:53:44 <jcorgan_> i assume the p2p is already "lossy"
 804 2014-08-03 15:53:54 <sipa> it is lossy, but consistent
 805 2014-08-03 15:54:14 <sipa> your resulting notifications are not
 806 2014-08-03 15:54:27 <sipa> unless you only rely on them for "there's something new, check it"
 807 2014-08-03 15:54:40 <wumpus> but then storing them makes no sense
 808 2014-08-03 15:54:51 <wumpus> it's like a GUI trigger, 'update your widget'
 809 2014-08-03 15:55:02 rdymac has joined
 810 2014-08-03 15:55:30 <jcorgan_> agree.  "things have changed, go catch up" triggering an RPC based "tell me everything that has changed since" is certainly one way to do it
 811 2014-08-03 15:55:33 tombtc has joined
 812 2014-08-03 15:56:24 Hasimir has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
 813 2014-08-03 15:56:40 <jcorgan_> i think there are a variety of use cases that have different needs; it's hard to anticipate what people will want to do
 814 2014-08-03 15:57:11 <jcorgan_> so just providing them with the facility gives them the ability to craft their own solutions
 815 2014-08-03 15:57:16 <sipa> the difference is that there is no return channel
 816 2014-08-03 15:57:20 <jcorgan_> i like the idea of an event channel
 817 2014-08-03 15:57:22 <sipa> in P2P, if you miss data, you ask for it
 818 2014-08-03 15:57:30 <sipa> there is no way of doing so through ZMQ
 819 2014-08-03 15:57:34 <jcorgan_> the return channel is rpc
 820 2014-08-03 15:57:40 <sipa> yes, if you use it that way
 821 2014-08-03 15:57:46 <sipa> but apparently even you yourself are not
 822 2014-08-03 15:58:10 <jcorgan_> no, my specific needs are fine with the idea of not getting everything guaranteed
 823 2014-08-03 15:58:15 <sipa> ok
 824 2014-08-03 15:58:20 <wumpus> zmq seems mainly useful for very fast data, which is useless if you get it too late anyway
 825 2014-08-03 15:58:28 <sipa> jcorgan_: may i ask what that need is?
 826 2014-08-03 15:58:37 aquarat has joined
 827 2014-08-03 15:58:59 <jtimon> jcorgan_ is using zmq's pub/sub but there's also req/rep (more like rpc)
 828 2014-08-03 15:59:45 <jcorgan_> i chose pub/sub because it is fire and forget on the bitcoind side
 829 2014-08-03 15:59:51 <wumpus> for example, high-frequency updates of some parameter
 830 2014-08-03 15:59:54 <jtimon> the communication between bintcoind and the zmq consumer will probably be fast and reliable
 831 2014-08-03 16:00:10 <jtimon> you can even use inter process communication
 832 2014-08-03 16:00:17 <jcorgan_> the pub side introduces the least amount of side effects
 833 2014-08-03 16:01:28 <jcorgan_> jtimon: i don't have much experience with the zmq IPC transport, but it is linux only
 834 2014-08-03 16:01:40 <jcorgan_> which is fine for me, but
 835 2014-08-03 16:01:43 <jtimon> yeah, I like the pub/sub approach, was just repliying to sipa's "there's no return channel in zmq"
 836 2014-08-03 16:01:53 <sipa> jtimon: apparently, if the consumed lags too much behind, messages get dropped, so you can't rely on seeing everything
 837 2014-08-03 16:02:08 <jtimon> iirc is unix, so should work on mac to
 838 2014-08-03 16:02:24 <wumpus> I like the pub/sub approach too, but there should be a way for the consumer to know that it missed a message, so it can re-sync
 839 2014-08-03 16:02:41 <jcorgan_> if you want to have avoid the discards, you can, at the expense of introducing potential blocking to the calling side
 840 2014-08-03 16:02:49 <jcorgan_> then you'd have reliable delivery
 841 2014-08-03 16:03:00 <jtimon> and you don't need any expirience, zmq handless it for you just change "tcp:" for "ipc:"
 842 2014-08-03 16:03:25 <jtimon> which makes me think...that should probably be an option in your PR
 843 2014-08-03 16:03:49 <sipa> it can, no? you pass the bind address yourself
 844 2014-08-03 16:03:51 <jcorgan_> the endpoint specifier is completely configurable: -zmqpub=ipc:
 845 2014-08-03 16:04:28 <jtimon> I'm just saying you could have pub/sub + req/rep instead of pub/sub + rpc
 846 2014-08-03 16:04:44 <jtimon> jcorgan_ cool
 847 2014-08-03 16:05:02 <jcorgan_> i had considered doing a req/rep replacement for RPC
 848 2014-08-03 16:05:12 <jcorgan_> that would be asynchronous, though
 849 2014-08-03 16:05:28 wateratosthenes has joined
 850 2014-08-03 16:05:29 <wumpus> the only way potentially lossy notifications can be useful (without adding sequence numbers and a way to re-sync) is without data, just a prod that 'something happened'
 851 2014-08-03 16:05:44 <jtimon> yep, but easier to consume IMO than rpc
 852 2014-08-03 16:06:07 <jtimon> also more scalable
 853 2014-08-03 16:06:24 <jcorgan_> and probably faster for non-JSON encoded replies
 854 2014-08-03 16:06:59 <jtimon> 1000 simultaneus requests to rpc will fail, 1 M simultaneous requests to zqm's req/rep won't
 855 2014-08-03 16:07:50 wateratosthenes has quit (Client Quit)
 856 2014-08-03 16:07:55 <jtimon> well, I think I would use zmq's json support for req/rep, I think is incompatible with the way you're using pub/sub only for the topic subcription
 857 2014-08-03 16:08:24 <jcorgan_> i haven't used that
 858 2014-08-03 16:09:03 <jtimon> btw, have you seen nanomsg? is by zmq's creator in C instead of C++ and he has removed some things like contexts
 859 2014-08-03 16:09:19 <jcorgan_> hmm, no, but i'm only using the C API for zmq
 860 2014-08-03 16:09:56 <jcorgan_> and only a very tiny fraction at that
 861 2014-08-03 16:10:56 <jtimon> in python is just socket.recv_json() and it will return a json dictionary with the json stuff
 862 2014-08-03 16:11:17 <jcorgan_> doesn't get much simpler than that
 863 2014-08-03 16:11:56 <jtimon> probably nanomsg is not mature enough like zmq anyway
 864 2014-08-03 16:12:24 <jtimon> and there's probably more zmq potential consumers than nanomsg
 865 2014-08-03 16:12:56 <jcorgan_> i have limited experience with zmq's full capabilities--we use it in gnuradio for shipping data around for distributed signal processing, but that only requires a limited set of zmq features
 866 2014-08-03 16:13:35 <jtimon> sipa wumpus would it make sense to separate the wallet through a zmq interface?
 867 2014-08-03 16:13:48 <jcorgan_> oh please yes
 868 2014-08-03 16:14:21 <jcorgan_> sorry :)
 869 2014-08-03 16:15:10 <jtimon> jcorgan_ I've played with it only in python, this wrapper can show you all the functionality I've used: https://github.com/jtimon/zmqmin/tree/master/zmqmin
 870 2014-08-03 16:15:38 Emzy has joined
 871 2014-08-03 16:16:38 <sipa> jtimon: meh
 872 2014-08-03 16:16:57 <sipa> the P2P protocol already has everything - making ZMQ support that seems like a ton of duplicate effort
 873 2014-08-03 16:17:14 <jtimon> I don't think you really need anything more than pub/sub req/rep and push/pull brokers and other stff are just simplifications you can build on your own
 874 2014-08-03 16:18:07 <jtimon> I'm sure implementing spv mode for the wallet before separating it is far more effort than a simple zmq interface
 875 2014-08-03 16:18:40 <jtimon> and no, the p2p protocol doesn't have everything, maybe with getutxo...
 876 2014-08-03 16:18:53 <sipa> ZMQ won't be more efficient than RPC is now
 877 2014-08-03 16:19:08 <jtimon> but will be simpler
 878 2014-08-03 16:19:19 <sipa> how so?
 879 2014-08-03 16:20:07 <sipa> you'll need mechanisms for accessing the node's block chain, and its UTXO set, and its mempool and a mechanism for requesting blocks
 880 2014-08-03 16:20:08 <jtimon> anyway, yes, you can do the same with rpc or jgarzik's http rest
 881 2014-08-03 16:20:13 <sipa> those require tons of calls
 882 2014-08-03 16:20:25 <sipa> bitcoind isn't optimized for dealing with many external requests
 883 2014-08-03 16:20:30 <jtimon> you just don't have pub/sub or push/pull
 884 2014-08-03 16:20:50 <jtimon> zmq does that for you for free
 885 2014-08-03 16:21:04 <sipa> even if you have those, you'll have tons of requests for bitcoind to deal with
 886 2014-08-03 16:21:10 <sipa> SPV sync is far cheaper
 887 2014-08-03 16:21:26 <sipa> as the remote side keeps track of its own of the current blockchain
 888 2014-08-03 16:21:53 <jtimon> yes, but I would like to separate the wallet before it moves from full-node wallet to SPV wallet
 889 2014-08-03 16:22:45 <jtimon> yes, but I would like to separate the wallet before it moves from full-node wallet to SPV consuming the p2p network at some point
 890 2014-08-03 16:23:21 <sipa> yeah, i understand, but i think you underestimate how intertwined the wallet and the node is
 891 2014-08-03 16:24:08 <sipa> something like CWalletTx::GetConfirmations needs access to the mempool and the blockchain
 892 2014-08-03 16:24:15 <jtimon> yeah, now I know better, but I'm still probably missing some couplings between them
 893 2014-08-03 16:24:42 <jtimon> so you could just serve the mem pull with rpc/rest/zmq
 894 2014-08-03 16:24:45 <wumpus> yes they are thus intertwined it's easier to just write a new wallet from scratch
 895 2014-08-03 16:24:54 <sipa> or use an already existing one...
 896 2014-08-03 16:24:59 <wumpus> even better
 897 2014-08-03 16:25:19 <wumpus> add the interface you want to an existing wallet
 898 2014-08-03 16:25:20 oujh has quit (Quit: Leaving)
 899 2014-08-03 16:25:29 <jtimon> now you're saying that the best way to separate the wallet is to just destroy it?
 900 2014-08-03 16:25:46 <sipa> well, we can't do that because people rely on it
 901 2014-08-03 16:26:00 <sipa> but you're talking about adding new functionality, which could just as well be done elsehwere
 902 2014-08-03 16:26:02 <wumpus> jtimon: not really, but the first step would be to add SPV
 903 2014-08-03 16:26:04 <jtimon> because that's probably right but also probably unacceptable
 904 2014-08-03 16:26:32 <jtimon> mhmm, as said I would like to separate it before adding spv mode...
 905 2014-08-03 16:26:54 <sipa> yeah, there are very good reasons to separate it (like not having private keys in the network facing process)
 906 2014-08-03 16:27:01 <sipa> but i really think you underestimate the effort
 907 2014-08-03 16:27:17 <sipa> or the performance impact of doing it in a naive way
 908 2014-08-03 16:27:32 <wumpus> jtimon: after SPV can be supported inthe current framework, seperating out the wallet is easy
 909 2014-08-03 16:27:32 <jtimon> no, I just think the best solution (SPV mode) will be more effort
 910 2014-08-03 16:27:41 <wumpus> it will be less effort
 911 2014-08-03 16:28:18 <sipa> the naive approach isn't too hard - just replace all calls to node data structures with some form or RPC (whether it's JSON-RPC, or ZMQ or REST)
 912 2014-08-03 16:28:26 <sipa> but i think it will have unacceptable performance
 913 2014-08-03 16:28:38 <jtimon> exactly, that's my approach
 914 2014-08-03 16:28:41 <wumpus> jtimon: really, why not just try to adapt bitcoinj, electrum, or some other existing external wallet?
 915 2014-08-03 16:28:52 oujh has joined
 916 2014-08-03 16:29:02 <jtimon> you can maintain a performance very similar to the current one
 917 2014-08-03 16:29:20 <jtimon> wumpus I don't want a wallet
 918 2014-08-03 16:29:34 <wumpus> jtimon: why are you doing this in the first place then?
 919 2014-08-03 16:30:09 <wumpus> there is just no place anymore for full-node wallets, seperated through an IPC pipe or not
 920 2014-08-03 16:30:15 <jtimon> you see, the argument against it is "that wallet already exists, it's electrum", but I don't want electrum I want the wallet out of the core
 921 2014-08-03 16:30:37 <sipa> jtimon: the only way to actually get the wallet out of the core is having a stable interface that the wallet can use
 922 2014-08-03 16:31:17 <sipa> jtimon: if you're going to naively replace every access to the core with some RPC, it won't be a stable interface, just the same intertwining between wallet and core code, only separated by a network mechanism instead of C++ function calls
 923 2014-08-03 16:31:22 <wumpus>  why don't you want electrum?
 924 2014-08-03 16:31:27 <wumpus> it's well-tested by now
 925 2014-08-03 16:31:34 <jtimon> and then the wallet slowly moves to listening to the p2p network directly and at some point you can stop supporting that interface
 926 2014-08-03 16:31:53 <jtimon> wu,pus, I don't want a wallet, I want the wallet out of the core
 927 2014-08-03 16:32:05 <wumpus> many people rely on it daily, unlike something that you roll yourself
 928 2014-08-03 16:32:06 <jcorgan_> jtimon: i don't think there is a gradual way to use the p2p
 929 2014-08-03 16:32:37 <jtimon> jcorgan_ maybe not
 930 2014-08-03 16:32:38 <sipa> jtimon: please, just help get headers-first in; SPV seems trivial after that... :)
 931 2014-08-03 16:32:45 <wumpus> sipa: +1
 932 2014-08-03 16:33:08 <wumpus> sipa: that's the way forward, other things are just distractions
 933 2014-08-03 16:33:26 graingert has joined
 934 2014-08-03 16:33:29 <jtimon> mhmm, interesting, so after headers first moving the wallet to SPV and then separating it would be easy?
 935 2014-08-03 16:33:41 <jcorgan_> speaking of which, what's next on that?
 936 2014-08-03 16:33:48 <sipa> jtimon: you'd just start the core in headers-only mode, and run the wallet against that
 937 2014-08-03 16:33:55 <wumpus> jcorgan_: fixing the pulltester AFAIK
 938 2014-08-03 16:34:07 <wumpus> jcorgan_: and making -reindex work
 939 2014-08-03 16:34:14 <sipa> wumpus: s/fixing/rewriting/
 940 2014-08-03 16:34:26 roconnor has joined
 941 2014-08-03 16:34:33 <wumpus> sipa: right, can't w add an option -make-pulltester-happy-compatibility? :p
 942 2014-08-03 16:34:54 <sipa> jtimon: however, that doesn't directly get the wallet out of the codebase
 943 2014-08-03 16:35:00 <sipa> jtimon: just moves it to a different process
 944 2014-08-03 16:35:30 <wumpus> sipa: well the wallet will always have some shared code with the rest of the core, that's a different issue, and can be solved by defining libraries
 945 2014-08-03 16:35:37 <sipa> yup
 946 2014-08-03 16:35:42 <sipa> modularization++
 947 2014-08-03 16:35:42 <jtimon> mhmm, so what's the final plan to separate the codebase?
 948 2014-08-03 16:35:54 <jtimon> ok
 949 2014-08-03 16:36:01 <sipa> jtimon: have a core library that both the full node and the wallet use
 950 2014-08-03 16:36:03 <wumpus> chopping up the codebase into libraries is also already in progress
 951 2014-08-03 16:36:15 <jcorgan_> will those ever become shared libraries?
 952 2014-08-03 16:36:19 <sipa> irrelevant
 953 2014-08-03 16:36:28 <sipa> but yes, if the APIs are stable enough, why not
 954 2014-08-03 16:36:37 <wumpus> if they are libraries they can be shared or static, whatever you want
 955 2014-08-03 16:36:46 derbumi has joined
 956 2014-08-03 16:36:54 <wumpus> just a matter of compile flags
 957 2014-08-03 16:36:56 <wumpus> (link)
 958 2014-08-03 16:37:05 <jcorgan_> it would be useful to write 3rd party code that could rely on the tested/debugged bitcoind shared library
 959 2014-08-03 16:37:15 <sipa> wumpus: pulltester relies on bitcoind being able to fetch blocks out of order, and reassemble the chain
 960 2014-08-03 16:37:15 <wumpus> yes
 961 2014-08-03 16:37:20 Bkil has joined
 962 2014-08-03 16:37:35 <sipa> wumpus: which isn't what headers-first does... it first learns about the blocks out of order, but then fetches and assembles them in order
 963 2014-08-03 16:37:40 <wumpus> sipa: oh right, emulating that would bring back orphans :(
 964 2014-08-03 16:37:41 akstunt600 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 965 2014-08-03 16:37:42 ak_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 966 2014-08-03 16:38:00 Bkil has quit (Client Quit)
 967 2014-08-03 16:38:03 <sipa> jcorgan_: absolutely, that's what i would really like to see
 968 2014-08-03 16:38:05 <wumpus> jcorgan_: especially the consensus part / script execution should really be a library
 969 2014-08-03 16:38:06 <jtimon> sipa what's the issue number for the 2-commits pull tester?
 970 2014-08-03 16:38:34 <jtimon> (instead of comparing with bitcoinj)
 971 2014-08-03 16:38:43 ak_ has joined
 972 2014-08-03 16:38:43 akstunt600 has joined
 973 2014-08-03 16:39:01 <sipa> jtimon: #4545
 974 2014-08-03 16:39:05 <wumpus>  jcorgan_: with bindings for many languages, so that people don't (have to) implement it themselves
 975 2014-08-03 16:40:00 <jtimon> thanks, so #4545 is the main thing stopping headers first from happening?
 976 2014-08-03 16:40:15 <jcorgan_> that similar to my motivation for the zmq pub/sub stuff--let bitcoind get the network communications right, and just deliver the blocks and txes to other apps
 977 2014-08-03 16:40:21 <wumpus> yes, we can't really live without pull tester
 978 2014-08-03 16:40:23 <sipa> for my part yes - maybe other devs have other concerns
 979 2014-08-03 16:40:55 <sipa> right, it's not just that pulltester can't be used to verify the headerfirst PR; it's that merging it would make pulltester useless
 980 2014-08-03 16:41:03 belcher has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
 981 2014-08-03 16:41:09 <sipa> s/useless/unusable/
 982 2014-08-03 16:41:26 <sipa> s/pulltester/comparison tool/
 983 2014-08-03 16:42:08 <jtimon> mhmm, maybe thebluematt can hep with that..
 984 2014-08-03 16:42:26 <sipa> #4545 arose from a discussion about it with matt
 985 2014-08-03 16:45:40 hearn has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
 986 2014-08-03 16:48:04 chax has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 987 2014-08-03 16:48:18 jcorgan_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 988 2014-08-03 16:48:31 chax has joined
 989 2014-08-03 16:50:26 jcorgan_ has joined
 990 2014-08-03 16:51:18 jcorgan_ has quit (Client Quit)
 991 2014-08-03 16:52:49 chax has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 992 2014-08-03 16:53:35 daybyter has joined
 993 2014-08-03 16:53:55 DougieBot5000 has joined
 994 2014-08-03 16:54:51 Lexa has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 995 2014-08-03 16:55:30 Lexa has joined
 996 2014-08-03 16:57:38 A has joined
 997 2014-08-03 16:59:32 papa3 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 998 2014-08-03 17:01:09 rdponticelli has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 999 2014-08-03 17:01:28 A has left (an!~Alan@173.216.51.136|)
1000 2014-08-03 17:01:33 rdponticelli has joined
1001 2014-08-03 17:02:41 hearn has joined
1002 2014-08-03 17:09:35 <skinnkavaj> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=400235.msg8158900#msg8158900
1003 2014-08-03 17:10:14 daybyter has quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
1004 2014-08-03 17:15:22 Zarutian has quit (Quit: Zarutian)
1005 2014-08-03 17:15:50 belcher has joined
1006 2014-08-03 17:21:22 robonerd has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
1007 2014-08-03 17:22:40 robonerd has joined
1008 2014-08-03 17:23:05 ionstorm has joined
1009 2014-08-03 17:26:14 daybyter has joined
1010 2014-08-03 17:28:12 derbumi has quit (Quit: derbumi)
1011 2014-08-03 17:29:35 <davec> it seems github is down atm, so I can't file an issue yet, but bitcoind contains an invalid ecdsa signature test.
1012 2014-08-03 17:29:38 <davec> []byte{0x30, 0x06, 0x02, 0x01, 0x00, 0x02, 0x01, 0x00, 0x01},
1013 2014-08-03 17:30:07 <davec> that one in particular.  IsCanonicalSignature claims it's valid.  It's not per spec which states:
1014 2014-08-03 17:30:24 <davec> 1. Verify that r and s are integers in the interval [1, n-1]
1015 2014-08-03 17:30:30 <davec> 0 is not in that range
1016 2014-08-03 17:31:03 ak_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1017 2014-08-03 17:31:03 akstunt600 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1018 2014-08-03 17:31:37 OneMiner1 has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
1019 2014-08-03 17:31:47 ak_ has joined
1020 2014-08-03 17:31:47 akstunt600 has joined
1021 2014-08-03 17:32:31 <dhill> the first test in src/test/data/sig_canonical.json
1022 2014-08-03 17:34:34 Eiii has joined
1023 2014-08-03 17:34:48 chax has joined
1024 2014-08-03 17:35:50 alferz has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
1025 2014-08-03 17:37:18 <sipa> dhill: it's a check that is only done if SCRIPT_VERIFY_LOW_S is set; it's not really necessary as the signature is invalid anyway
1026 2014-08-03 17:37:27 <sipa> but the test shouldn't check for that
1027 2014-08-03 17:38:00 <davec> right, it's invalid and hence not canonical
1028 2014-08-03 17:39:02 <sipa> no, i mean, it's not necessary that the canonicality check verifies this, as normal signature verification would fail anyway
1029 2014-08-03 17:39:26 <sipa> but i agree it's weird to have a 'slightly relaxed' definition for canonicality in the code, and test for it
1030 2014-08-03 17:39:40 <sipa> thanks for reporting
1031 2014-08-03 17:40:16 <davec> np.  I'll open the ticket whenever the repo comes back on github
1032 2014-08-03 17:40:25 <davec> speaking of which, there it is
1033 2014-08-03 17:41:43 alferz has joined
1034 2014-08-03 17:48:44 mpmcsweeney has joined
1035 2014-08-03 17:48:47 belcher has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1036 2014-08-03 17:48:53 EagleTM has joined
1037 2014-08-03 17:50:43 Eagle[TM] has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
1038 2014-08-03 17:52:39 segy has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
1039 2014-08-03 17:55:28 Aido_ is now known as Aido
1040 2014-08-03 17:56:51 segy has joined
1041 2014-08-03 17:57:48 <davec> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/4625
1042 2014-08-03 17:59:15 <sipa> dhill: thanks; I agree, will fix
1043 2014-08-03 17:59:30 chax has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1044 2014-08-03 18:00:02 chax has joined
1045 2014-08-03 18:00:23 Zarutian has joined
1046 2014-08-03 18:04:38 chax has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
1047 2014-08-03 18:05:15 knotwork_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1048 2014-08-03 18:06:17 knotwork_ has joined
1049 2014-08-03 18:18:48 daybyter has quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
1050 2014-08-03 18:21:07 Transisto has quit ()
1051 2014-08-03 18:21:50 belcher has joined
1052 2014-08-03 18:22:00 maramaya has joined
1053 2014-08-03 18:22:49 mpmcsweeney has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1054 2014-08-03 18:24:23 ak_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1055 2014-08-03 18:24:23 akstunt600 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1056 2014-08-03 18:25:08 akstunt600 has joined
1057 2014-08-03 18:25:22 ak_ has joined
1058 2014-08-03 18:25:30 cym has joined
1059 2014-08-03 18:29:43 pen has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
1060 2014-08-03 18:38:06 theorbtwo has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
1061 2014-08-03 18:40:00 CoalPowerGorilla has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1062 2014-08-03 18:42:05 moarrr has joined
1063 2014-08-03 18:44:56 CoalPowerGorilla has joined
1064 2014-08-03 18:46:33 theorbtwo has joined
1065 2014-08-03 18:46:53 Zarutian has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
1066 2014-08-03 18:52:29 Zarutian has joined
1067 2014-08-03 18:53:26 Grouver has quit (Quit:  HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- s0 d4Mn l33t |t'z 5c4rY!)
1068 2014-08-03 18:55:23 derbumi has joined
1069 2014-08-03 18:57:07 wiretapped has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
1070 2014-08-03 18:57:11 uiop has joined
1071 2014-08-03 18:57:54 jintelletec has joined
1072 2014-08-03 18:58:07 uiop has left ()
1073 2014-08-03 18:58:39 wiretapped has joined
1074 2014-08-03 19:00:48 Emzy has quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: http://www.textualapp.com/)
1075 2014-08-03 19:01:45 YoY has quit (Read error: Connection timed out)
1076 2014-08-03 19:01:52 erasmospunk has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1077 2014-08-03 19:02:04 MoALTz__ has joined
1078 2014-08-03 19:03:14 YoY has joined
1079 2014-08-03 19:03:45 <jintelletec> need help finding and ruby or pythin devs on a number of projects, can anyone help?
1080 2014-08-03 19:04:39 MoALTz_ has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
1081 2014-08-03 19:07:45 Emzy has joined
1082 2014-08-03 19:14:04 lclc has quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
1083 2014-08-03 19:14:23 GM0127 has joined
1084 2014-08-03 19:15:03 lewellyn has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1085 2014-08-03 19:16:57 ThomasV has joined
1086 2014-08-03 19:17:41 ak_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1087 2014-08-03 19:17:41 akstunt600 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1088 2014-08-03 19:18:27 akstunt600 has joined
1089 2014-08-03 19:18:27 ak_ has joined
1090 2014-08-03 19:24:26 EsteNuno has joined
1091 2014-08-03 19:30:08 jintelletec has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1092 2014-08-03 19:33:20 cagedwisdom has joined
1093 2014-08-03 19:36:11 Stark has joined
1094 2014-08-03 19:38:45 MolokoDeck has joined
1095 2014-08-03 19:43:03 MolokoDeck has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
1096 2014-08-03 19:45:21 smorim has joined
1097 2014-08-03 19:48:53 EsteNuno has quit (Quit: EsteNuno)
1098 2014-08-03 19:50:27 belcher_ has joined
1099 2014-08-03 19:50:58 belcher has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
1100 2014-08-03 19:55:57 graingert has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
1101 2014-08-03 20:08:14 non2_ has joined
1102 2014-08-03 20:08:19 e4xit has quit (Quit: Right I'm out!)
1103 2014-08-03 20:10:26 random_cat_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1104 2014-08-03 20:11:05 akstunt600 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1105 2014-08-03 20:11:05 ak_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1106 2014-08-03 20:11:38 random_cat_ has joined
1107 2014-08-03 20:11:43 non2 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1108 2014-08-03 20:11:50 ak_ has joined
1109 2014-08-03 20:12:00 akstunt600 has joined
1110 2014-08-03 20:12:49 geirby has joined
1111 2014-08-03 20:14:27 mpmcsweeney has joined
1112 2014-08-03 20:17:00 geirby has quit (Client Quit)
1113 2014-08-03 20:19:47 sahlhoff has joined
1114 2014-08-03 20:20:46 omefire has joined
1115 2014-08-03 20:23:05 erasmospunk has joined
1116 2014-08-03 20:29:30 erasmospunk has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1117 2014-08-03 20:30:06 gjj has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1118 2014-08-03 20:30:38 TheSeven has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
1119 2014-08-03 20:33:05 Swadq has joined
1120 2014-08-03 20:36:39 gmaxwell has joined
1121 2014-08-03 20:40:51 TheSeven has joined
1122 2014-08-03 20:42:16 WeCluster has joined
1123 2014-08-03 20:44:24 altgribble has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1124 2014-08-03 20:45:43 Malakai33 has joined
1125 2014-08-03 20:46:29 Stark has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
1126 2014-08-03 20:47:22 chax has joined
1127 2014-08-03 20:47:58 belcher_ has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
1128 2014-08-03 20:48:10 yakman_ has joined
1129 2014-08-03 20:51:52 JackH has quit (Quit: JackH)
1130 2014-08-03 20:53:43 CoalPowerGorilla has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1131 2014-08-03 20:53:55 hearn has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
1132 2014-08-03 20:54:30 Malakai33 has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1133 2014-08-03 20:54:58 wallet42 has joined
1134 2014-08-03 20:59:43 Chief_Panda has joined
1135 2014-08-03 21:00:51 Application has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1136 2014-08-03 21:03:48 Zarutian has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
1137 2014-08-03 21:04:21 akstunt600 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1138 2014-08-03 21:04:21 ak_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1139 2014-08-03 21:05:00 yakman_ has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1140 2014-08-03 21:05:05 akstunt600 has joined
1141 2014-08-03 21:05:05 ak_ has joined
1142 2014-08-03 21:05:20 belcher has joined
1143 2014-08-03 21:05:21 belcher has quit (Changing host)
1144 2014-08-03 21:05:21 belcher has joined
1145 2014-08-03 21:06:06 arubi has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1146 2014-08-03 21:06:55 arubi has joined
1147 2014-08-03 21:07:13 altgribble has joined
1148 2014-08-03 21:09:10 Zarutian has joined
1149 2014-08-03 21:11:06 sirk390 has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
1150 2014-08-03 21:12:57 CoinHeavy has joined
1151 2014-08-03 21:13:50 altgribble` has joined
1152 2014-08-03 21:14:09 altgribble` has quit (Client Quit)
1153 2014-08-03 21:14:35 altgribble has quit (Disconnected by services)
1154 2014-08-03 21:15:25 aschildbach has joined
1155 2014-08-03 21:15:33 <aschildbach> saivann_: ping
1156 2014-08-03 21:15:49 <saivann_> aschildbach: pong
1157 2014-08-03 21:16:19 derbumi_ has joined
1158 2014-08-03 21:16:55 adlai has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
1159 2014-08-03 21:17:33 Zarutian has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1160 2014-08-03 21:17:58 derbumi has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1161 2014-08-03 21:17:58 derbumi_ is now known as derbumi
1162 2014-08-03 21:18:01 ionstorm has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1163 2014-08-03 21:18:19 altgribble has joined
1164 2014-08-03 21:18:54 adlai has joined
1165 2014-08-03 21:19:03 <The_Fly_> exit
1166 2014-08-03 21:19:13 <The_Fly_> (oops)
1167 2014-08-03 21:20:05 The_Fly_ is now known as The_Fly
1168 2014-08-03 21:20:14 lewellyn has joined
1169 2014-08-03 21:21:30 non2_ is now known as non2
1170 2014-08-03 21:22:56 Zarutian has joined
1171 2014-08-03 21:25:06 altgribble has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1172 2014-08-03 21:28:12 altgribble has joined
1173 2014-08-03 21:28:19 AaronvanW has joined
1174 2014-08-03 21:29:40 CoalPowerGorilla has joined
1175 2014-08-03 21:31:08 altgribble has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1176 2014-08-03 21:32:36 altgribble has joined
1177 2014-08-03 21:34:14 sabfer has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1178 2014-08-03 21:34:38 plaprade has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
1179 2014-08-03 21:37:09 altgribble has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1180 2014-08-03 21:38:14 maramaya has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
1181 2014-08-03 21:39:05 mappum has joined
1182 2014-08-03 21:39:16 tombtc has quit (Quit: quit)
1183 2014-08-03 21:40:51 sabfer has joined
1184 2014-08-03 21:41:43 hanti is now known as HANTI
1185 2014-08-03 21:45:19 Zarutian has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1186 2014-08-03 21:50:45 Zarutian has joined
1187 2014-08-03 21:51:22 gjj has joined
1188 2014-08-03 21:52:46 sahlhoff has quit (Quit: sahlhoff)
1189 2014-08-03 21:54:15 moarrr has quit ()
1190 2014-08-03 21:55:50 mpmcsweeney has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1191 2014-08-03 21:56:50 gnuborg has quit (Quit: leaving)
1192 2014-08-03 21:57:42 akstunt600 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1193 2014-08-03 21:57:42 ak_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1194 2014-08-03 21:58:39 akstunt600 has joined
1195 2014-08-03 21:58:39 ak_ has joined
1196 2014-08-03 22:01:08 sabfer has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1197 2014-08-03 22:01:37 p8m has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1198 2014-08-03 22:01:48 sabfer has joined
1199 2014-08-03 22:04:13 <mr_burdell> anyone here working with trezor?
1200 2014-08-03 22:04:26 neozaru has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1201 2014-08-03 22:05:06 Zarutian has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
1202 2014-08-03 22:06:18 <mr_burdell> I'm getting "unknown message" error on decrypt message function
1203 2014-08-03 22:09:22 Zarutian has joined
1204 2014-08-03 22:09:25 llllllllll has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
1205 2014-08-03 22:11:04 sahlhoff has joined
1206 2014-08-03 22:12:14 <omefire> Hey Guys
1207 2014-08-03 22:12:37 <omefire> I'm trying to find where in the core client is the payment protocol implemented.
1208 2014-08-03 22:12:58 coeus has joined
1209 2014-08-03 22:15:16 <mr_burdell> omefire: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/master/src/qt/paymentrequestplus.cpp
1210 2014-08-03 22:15:57 E-Rage has joined
1211 2014-08-03 22:18:41 <E-Rage> hi folks. i've compiled bitcoind from the master branch and when running it only gets 380 blocks from testnet
1212 2014-08-03 22:18:48 mpmcsweeney has joined
1213 2014-08-03 22:18:52 <omefire> mr_burdell: thanks !
1214 2014-08-03 22:20:27 <sipa> E-Rage: bad peer?
1215 2014-08-03 22:20:32 <E-Rage> it looks like one of the peers has 380 blocks (looking at the log file) but why wouldn't it be getting further blocks from other peers?
1216 2014-08-03 22:20:51 <sipa> eventually, yes, when that one peer gets disconnected
1217 2014-08-03 22:20:55 jcorgan_ has joined
1218 2014-08-03 22:21:12 <sipa> parallel block download will improve such situations a lot, but isn't merged yet
1219 2014-08-03 22:21:44 <sipa> E-Rage: or when a new block is announced by another peer, it may switch
1220 2014-08-03 22:21:49 <E-Rage> sipa: any way i can force that peer to go away? it's labelled a testnetnodescrawler
1221 2014-08-03 22:22:03 <sipa> E-Rage: turn it off and on again :)
1222 2014-08-03 22:22:08 <E-Rage> hah
1223 2014-08-03 22:22:22 <sipa> heh, why does a crawler advertize NODE_NETWORK?
1224 2014-08-03 22:22:25 <E-Rage> i have indeed restarted bitcoind a few times
1225 2014-08-03 22:23:03 <E-Rage> there's another testnetnodescrawler having 313868 blocks, when the top is currently 271634
1226 2014-08-03 22:23:27 Emzy has quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)
1227 2014-08-03 22:23:33 Sauvin has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
1228 2014-08-03 22:24:21 mpmcsweeney has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1229 2014-08-03 22:24:33 jintelletec has joined
1230 2014-08-03 22:25:07 <jintelletec> anyone know any btc designers split UX/UI for a project I have?
1231 2014-08-03 22:25:32 mpmcsweeney has joined
1232 2014-08-03 22:25:41 mpmcsweeney has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1233 2014-08-03 22:29:28 mpmcsweeney has joined
1234 2014-08-03 22:29:42 Gyps has joined
1235 2014-08-03 22:30:05 mps has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
1236 2014-08-03 22:30:15 mpmcsweeney has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1237 2014-08-03 22:32:24 jcorgan_ has quit (Quit: jcorgan_)
1238 2014-08-03 22:32:36 dstien has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1239 2014-08-03 22:33:42 JStoker has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
1240 2014-08-03 22:34:26 Swadq has quit (Quit: Swadq)
1241 2014-08-03 22:35:11 JStoker has joined
1242 2014-08-03 22:35:12 JStoker has quit (Changing host)
1243 2014-08-03 22:35:12 JStoker has joined
1244 2014-08-03 22:35:47 chax has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1245 2014-08-03 22:35:53 Tykling has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
1246 2014-08-03 22:35:58 borgtu_ has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
1247 2014-08-03 22:36:14 jintelletec has quit ()
1248 2014-08-03 22:36:24 chax has joined
1249 2014-08-03 22:36:49 borgtu has joined
1250 2014-08-03 22:37:01 mike4 has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
1251 2014-08-03 22:37:04 gavinandresen has quit (Quit: gavinandresen)
1252 2014-08-03 22:37:49 Tykling has joined
1253 2014-08-03 22:37:52 <E-Rage> huh.. got an 'ORPHAN BLOCK 0' with a prev hash of the last block on the top of the (correct) chain.. that normal?
1254 2014-08-03 22:40:29 thermoman has joined
1255 2014-08-03 22:40:39 chax has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
1256 2014-08-03 22:40:44 ahf has joined
1257 2014-08-03 22:41:17 llllllllll has joined
1258 2014-08-03 22:43:16 <E-Rage> seems to be similar to the issue user phedny had a few months ago: http://bitcoinstats.com/irc/bitcoin-dev/logs/2014/04/30
1259 2014-08-03 22:43:59 dstien has joined
1260 2014-08-03 22:44:53 mps has joined
1261 2014-08-03 22:44:56 thermoman has quit (Client Quit)
1262 2014-08-03 22:45:04 thermoman has joined
1263 2014-08-03 22:47:04 <sipa> E-Rage: yes
1264 2014-08-03 22:47:13 <sipa> just means you're receiving blocks out of order
1265 2014-08-03 22:47:14 mike4 has joined
1266 2014-08-03 22:47:24 goldstar has joined
1267 2014-08-03 22:47:38 <sipa> if a new block is announced while you're syncing, that's certainly expected
1268 2014-08-03 22:47:58 <E-Rage> i don't think i'm syncing though
1269 2014-08-03 22:48:00 <E-Rage> still at 380
1270 2014-08-03 22:48:09 Tykling has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1271 2014-08-03 22:48:12 super3 has quit (Quit: super3)
1272 2014-08-03 22:48:40 super3 has joined
1273 2014-08-03 22:48:54 <goldstar> is there any way to 'hold' bitcoins for x amount of time ? I am working on a product that will allow people to pledge BTC, if the target is reached the btc is transfered, otherwise the transaction is reverted.
1274 2014-08-03 22:50:23 <belcher> yeah, nlocktime
1275 2014-08-03 22:50:32 <belcher> kinda
1276 2014-08-03 22:50:35 <sipa> E-Rage: connect to a decent node
1277 2014-08-03 22:51:01 <belcher> goldstar ^
1278 2014-08-03 22:51:01 akstunt600 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1279 2014-08-03 22:51:02 ak_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1280 2014-08-03 22:51:12 dgenr8 has joined
1281 2014-08-03 22:51:19 <E-Rage> sipa: 8 of my 10 nodes have the correct block height
1282 2014-08-03 22:51:20 Tykling has joined
1283 2014-08-03 22:51:27 <E-Rage> sorry, peers
1284 2014-08-03 22:51:49 ak_ has joined
1285 2014-08-03 22:52:08 akstunt600 has joined
1286 2014-08-03 22:52:19 <sipa> E-Rage: you need to make sure that the first one is good
1287 2014-08-03 22:52:26 <sipa> use -addnode if necessary
1288 2014-08-03 22:52:39 <E-Rage> will addnode override peers.dat?
1289 2014-08-03 22:52:45 <E-Rage> or at least get in line first?
1290 2014-08-03 22:52:51 <sipa> yes
1291 2014-08-03 22:52:56 <sipa> -addnode is in addition to peers.dat
1292 2014-08-03 22:53:51 Zarutian has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
1293 2014-08-03 22:56:01 <goldstar> belcher: thanks, I guess it wont be possible to change the nlocktime at a later date ?
1294 2014-08-03 22:56:48 <belcher> you could broadcast another tx that makes it invalid
1295 2014-08-03 22:56:53 <belcher> spend one of the utxos out from under it
1296 2014-08-03 22:57:12 <goldstar> thanks
1297 2014-08-03 22:59:12 Zarutian has joined
1298 2014-08-03 23:05:54 dgenr8 has quit (Quit: dgenr8)
1299 2014-08-03 23:06:20 <E-Rage> sipa: ok, did an addnode to a peer, it has a real startingheight, is a syncnode, and has a syncheight of 880.. 500 above my 380, but.. still nothing getblockcount is still 380.. fyi this node has sat like this for 4 hours
1300 2014-08-03 23:07:02 <E-Rage> ok, said 'screw it' rm-rf'd testnet3 restarted with addnode and.. same thing blockheight 380
1301 2014-08-03 23:07:08 belcher has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1302 2014-08-03 23:09:33 <sipa> ok, try with -connect then
1303 2014-08-03 23:09:45 <sipa> which disables all other peer connections, and just connects to that ip
1304 2014-08-03 23:10:16 <E-Rage> argh.. dunno why i didn't catch this before..
1305 2014-08-03 23:10:19 <E-Rage> sipa: http://pastebin.com/LBp1Wsnh
1306 2014-08-03 23:10:33 <E-Rage> InvalidChainFound on 381
1307 2014-08-03 23:11:41 <sipa> it's very odd that it fails at the same place a second time
1308 2014-08-03 23:12:24 <sipa> because that block is valid as far as i can see
1309 2014-08-03 23:13:13 Application has joined
1310 2014-08-03 23:13:53 AaronvanW has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1311 2014-08-03 23:14:13 <E-Rage> tried a different peer - removed testnet3 dir (starting fresh) and same thing at 381 - ConnectBlock() inputs missing/spent, my -connect peer gets banned, and InvalidChainFound on 381
1312 2014-08-03 23:14:38 <sipa> what platform is this?
1313 2014-08-03 23:14:50 <sipa> anything special about how you compiled?
1314 2014-08-03 23:14:52 <sipa> which version?
1315 2014-08-03 23:15:02 <E-Rage> master from a few hours ago
1316 2014-08-03 23:15:11 <E-Rage> Ubuntu 12.04 32bit VirtualBox VM
1317 2014-08-03 23:15:18 <E-Rage> standard autogen/configure/make
1318 2014-08-03 23:16:41 chax has joined
1319 2014-08-03 23:16:47 <E-Rage> was running 0.9.x on this box quite successfully for weeks
1320 2014-08-03 23:16:48 <sipa> can you bisect, please?
1321 2014-08-03 23:17:29 <E-Rage> bisect?
1322 2014-08-03 23:17:45 <sipa> git bisect; you give a version known to be good, a version known to be bad
1323 2014-08-03 23:17:56 <sipa> and then suggests you to try different in-between versions
1324 2014-08-03 23:18:01 <sipa> to localize which change broke things
1325 2014-08-03 23:18:16 <E-Rage> hmm.. i don't know of a 'good' version, though :)
1326 2014-08-03 23:18:25 <E-Rage> maybe a few days ago?
1327 2014-08-03 23:18:25 <sipa> 0.9.x works, you just told me
1328 2014-08-03 23:19:10 <E-Rage> sure, let me read up on it first
1329 2014-08-03 23:19:51 <sipa> there are 633 non-merge commits between 0.9.1 and master
1330 2014-08-03 23:19:56 mpmcsweeney has joined
1331 2014-08-03 23:20:04 <sipa> means at most 10 versions to try in between to localize the problem :)
1332 2014-08-03 23:20:18 <sipa> E-Rage: thanks!
1333 2014-08-03 23:20:23 <E-Rage> do i need to autogen/configure for each version?
1334 2014-08-03 23:20:35 <sipa> yes
1335 2014-08-03 23:20:58 <sipa> you can actually give it a script to run for each version
1336 2014-08-03 23:21:02 xenog has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
1337 2014-08-03 23:21:03 <sipa> but i haven't tried that myself
1338 2014-08-03 23:21:33 Tykling has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1339 2014-08-03 23:21:53 Tyklol has joined
1340 2014-08-03 23:22:55 <sipa> E-Rage: please report back; i find this scary
1341 2014-08-03 23:23:02 Kieraan has quit (Excess Flood)
1342 2014-08-03 23:23:07 <sipa> afk for a while
1343 2014-08-03 23:23:09 <E-Rage> sipa: definitely will do :)
1344 2014-08-03 23:23:19 Kieraan` has joined
1345 2014-08-03 23:26:06 <gmaxwell> sipa: testnet reindex / checkpoints=0 on master, x86_64 is fine for me.
1346 2014-08-03 23:31:51 adhux has joined
1347 2014-08-03 23:32:05 justanotheruser has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
1348 2014-08-03 23:37:00 mpmcsweeney has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1349 2014-08-03 23:39:08 t7 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1350 2014-08-03 23:44:21 ak_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1351 2014-08-03 23:44:21 akstunt600 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1352 2014-08-03 23:45:07 random_cat_ has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
1353 2014-08-03 23:45:09 akstunt600 has joined
1354 2014-08-03 23:45:17 ak_ has joined
1355 2014-08-03 23:45:55 haskoiner has quit (Quit: haskoiner)
1356 2014-08-03 23:46:31 random_cat_ has joined
1357 2014-08-03 23:46:33 kgk has joined
1358 2014-08-03 23:49:09 dgenr8 has joined
1359 2014-08-03 23:49:12 <sipa> gmaxwell: same for me, on 64 bit
1360 2014-08-03 23:49:17 maramaya has joined
1361 2014-08-03 23:49:26 <sipa> haven't tried 32-bit
1362 2014-08-03 23:50:36 sabfer has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1363 2014-08-03 23:51:10 <gmaxwell> trying 32 bit now.
1364 2014-08-03 23:51:39 justanotheruser has joined
1365 2014-08-03 23:51:43 <gmaxwell> (seems we've minorly broken compiling 32bit binaries on a multilib x86_64 system...)
1366 2014-08-03 23:51:48 Chief_Panda has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1367 2014-08-03 23:52:03 <sipa> ./configure CXX="g++ -m32" ?
1368 2014-08-03 23:52:22 chax has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1369 2014-08-03 23:52:34 ArthurNumbanumba has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
1370 2014-08-03 23:52:49 chax has joined
1371 2014-08-03 23:52:57 ArthurNumba2 has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
1372 2014-08-03 23:53:28 <gmaxwell> yea busted for me, seems we're forcing libdirs to lib64. Working around it...
1373 2014-08-03 23:54:36 <E-Rage> this machine is pretty pokey - Core 2 Duo - so on the, whoo hoo, 2nd build now - the first bisection between 0.9.1 and my checkout was successful
1374 2014-08-03 23:55:39 <sipa> E-Rage: you may have missed it, but you don't need to wipe + start over every time; starting with -reindex -checkpoints=0 should be enough to reproduce
1375 2014-08-03 23:56:46 fabianfabian has joined
1376 2014-08-03 23:57:00 ThomasV has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
1377 2014-08-03 23:57:36 chax has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)