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  49 2014-08-10 01:11:45 <BlueMatt> ;;seen gavinandresen
  50 2014-08-10 01:11:45 <gribble> gavinandresen was last seen in #bitcoin-dev 4 days, 9 hours, 48 minutes, and 50 seconds ago: <gavinandresen> Anyway, if you're really and truly paranoid you should be using a multisig wallet so even if you're copy of bitcoin core is unsafe your coins are still safe.
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  53 2014-08-10 01:15:46 <Luke-Jr> BlueMatt: please do not ask miners to run unverifiable binaries on their mining nodes…
  54 2014-08-10 01:15:59 <BlueMatt> Luke-Jr: I hope to god no one runs that on their mining nodes
  55 2014-08-10 01:16:01 <BlueMatt> oh god
  56 2014-08-10 01:16:22 <BlueMatt> it is, however, ideal to run on a rpi right next to your node
  57 2014-08-10 01:16:38 <Luke-Jr> I hope nobody is relaying through a rpi - kinda defeats the optimisation's purpose <.<
  58 2014-08-10 01:16:59 <BlueMatt> its very lightweight, as long as your bitcoind isnt there it shouldnt be tan issue
  59 2014-08-10 01:17:02 <BlueMatt> it doesnt use disk
  60 2014-08-10 01:17:08 <Luke-Jr> oh
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  62 2014-08-10 01:17:13 <Luke-Jr> so it doesn't need a node at all?
  63 2014-08-10 01:17:17 <BlueMatt> no
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  65 2014-08-10 01:17:19 <BlueMatt> it relays to a node
  66 2014-08-10 01:17:31 <Luke-Jr> aha, ok
  67 2014-08-10 01:17:32 <BlueMatt> it does no verification, just keeps a set of recently seen transactions and fills in the gaps where possible
  68 2014-08-10 01:18:13 <Luke-Jr> might send off a second email explaining this. I can see some naive people just running it on the main mining node :x
  69 2014-08-10 01:18:27 <gmaxwell> well you can compile it yourself at least.
  70 2014-08-10 01:18:39 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: there was only a binary linked in the email
  71 2014-08-10 01:18:59 <gmaxwell> Which email?
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  75 2014-08-10 01:24:12 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: to poolowners-ml
  76 2014-08-10 01:26:04 <BlueMatt> Luke-Jr: sent
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  87 2014-08-10 01:43:33 <Luke-Jr> BlueMatt: thanks
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 129 2014-08-10 03:09:14 <Coinality_> We are working on a bitcoin-based freelancer platform (Coinality.io) with multi-sig escrow but came across an issue: since escrow payments are final and cannot be adjusted for current market rate at the time of payout, both parties must accept price volatility if they elect to use escrow. This is problematic for long-term projects.
 130 2014-08-10 03:09:25 <Coinality_> Two solutions are: 1) Provide a strictly BTC-based economy where Contractor hourly rates are specified in BTC with no reference to fiat conversion value, or; 2) Hourly rates sepcified in fiat but escrow payments are split into weekly payments w/exchange rate recalculated at the time of each weekly payment. Thoughts?
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 132 2014-08-10 03:10:19 <shesek> I was wondering about the same thing with a project I'm working on, Bitrated
 133 2014-08-10 03:10:59 <Coinality_> We're leaning towards weekly payments w/exchange rate recalculation, but it's a very difficult decision.
 134 2014-08-10 03:11:06 <shesek> The things I thought of was what you mentioned as (1), and having the buyer pay some extra to cover for volatility, getting back any extra at the end of the transaction
 135 2014-08-10 03:11:27 <shesek> so for example, instead of paying 1 BTC he would pay 1.2 BTC, which would cover for up to 20% swing
 136 2014-08-10 03:11:45 <shesek> and get back whatever is left after calculating the price at the time of releasing the payment
 137 2014-08-10 03:12:01 <Coinality_> But what if there is a larger than 20% swing? They have to deposit additional funds with another 20% buffer?
 138 2014-08-10 03:12:28 <shesek> the downside being, of course, that you require the buyer to have more funds available and to give up on some liquidity during the time of the transaction
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 140 2014-08-10 03:13:00 <shesek> you could have them deposit more funds over time, yes
 141 2014-08-10 03:13:21 <shesek> but as swings could go both ways, I think its fair to determine ahead of time that the payment is only covering up to an X% swing
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 151 2014-08-10 03:31:10 <uiop> Coinality_: i only did a quick cursory once-over of what you said, but sounds like a futures contract. they're marked-to-market daily.
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 153 2014-08-10 03:32:01 <uiop> which is the main diff betw them and and a forward
 154 2014-08-10 03:32:14 <Coinality_> Oh interesting... how might that be implemented?
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 157 2014-08-10 03:34:12 <uiop> if you're looking to implement this wholly within some crypto scheme, i'm not sure. but that's a good question
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 165 2014-08-10 03:45:41 <Luke-Jr> Coinality_: consider also that project costs are often unknown in advance, so people using escrow really need to escrow more than the final cost anyway
 166 2014-08-10 03:47:35 <Coinality_> Very good point; we'll be encouraging Users to take advantage of our "Consultation interface" before committing to any projects in order to get a more accurate time/cost estimate.
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 266 2014-08-10 07:14:10 <ben_vulpes> forgive me for ultra stupidity this evening, but if i want to use {armory,bitcoinrpc,*anything*} to scan the blockchain for all transactions to an arbitrary address, what tools should i be looking at?
 267 2014-08-10 07:14:32 <wumpus> insight
 268 2014-08-10 07:14:59 <ben_vulpes> wumpus: https://github.com/bitpay/insight ?
 269 2014-08-10 07:15:02 <wumpus> yes
 270 2014-08-10 07:15:22 <ben_vulpes> or, https://github.com/bitpay/insight-api ?
 271 2014-08-10 07:15:26 <ben_vulpes> k, thanks.
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 273 2014-08-10 07:21:41 <ben_vulpes> so insight needs a complete blockchain on disk to function correctly - how does that work with ongoing blockchain downloads?
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 290 2014-08-10 08:04:38 <wumpus> AFAIK it communicates with bitcoind to stay up to date
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 547 2014-08-10 15:38:31 <jiffe> so I see in various pieces of code after a signature if generated it goes through a further process 'convert ASN.1-serialized signature to bitcoin-qt format', any idea what the purpose of this is?
 548 2014-08-10 15:39:56 <jiffe> it seems to try to tack on up to four different nV values and then run the result through the verification process in an attempt to obtain the signing key's public address
 549 2014-08-10 15:40:13 <sipa> you're talking about message signing?
 550 2014-08-10 15:40:32 <sipa> yes, that relies on key recovery
 551 2014-08-10 15:40:57 <sipa> however, every (message, ecdsa signature) pair has up to 4 possible recovered keys
 552 2014-08-10 15:41:01 da2ce7 has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
 553 2014-08-10 15:41:11 <sipa> so we add 1 byte metadata to identify which key it is
 554 2014-08-10 15:41:38 pen has joined
 555 2014-08-10 15:41:44 <sipa> normal transaction signatures don't use this
 556 2014-08-10 15:42:05 <jiffe> I see
 557 2014-08-10 15:43:00 <sipa> if you implement ecdsa yourself, it's trivial to know what that recovery value needs to be directly
 558 2014-08-10 15:43:19 <sipa> but openssl's doesn't expose that, so we have to iterate to find it afterwards
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 561 2014-08-10 15:43:32 <aschildbach> petertodd: ping
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 566 2014-08-10 15:51:20 <btcdrak> petertodd is mia
 567 2014-08-10 15:53:19 Zarutian has joined
 568 2014-08-10 15:55:50 <aschildbach> saivann: Hi Saivann!
 569 2014-08-10 15:56:47 <aschildbach> btcdrak: What does mia mean?
 570 2014-08-10 15:57:14 JackH has joined
 571 2014-08-10 15:57:47 <sipa> missing in action
 572 2014-08-10 15:57:48 <btcdrak> missing-in-action: army term.
 573 2014-08-10 15:58:28 <btcdrak> think he's spending time with family atm. might be better to email him directly if it's about the dns-seeds
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 583 2014-08-10 16:18:40 <MistaG> Are there any websites with charts showing transactions for a specific day?
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 595 2014-08-10 16:36:19 <jiffe> sipa: what would I be looking for when implementing ecdsa to find that Nv value?
 596 2014-08-10 16:38:48 <sipa> i would suggest not reimplementing cryptographic primitives yourself, but that would be a case of "do as i say, don't do as i do"
 597 2014-08-10 16:40:17 <sipa> https://github.com/bitcoin/secp256k1/blob/master/src/ecdsa_impl.h#L167
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 600 2014-08-10 16:42:08 <sipa> jiffe: the 1 bit is the oddness of the omitted R.y coordinate, the 2 bit is whether R.x was >= than the order of the curve (which is exceedingly unlikely to happen)
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 602 2014-08-10 16:42:37 <sipa> in bitcoin message signatures, the header byte is 27 + ricid + 4*compressed
 603 2014-08-10 16:42:44 <sipa> for compressed keys we use bit 4
 604 2014-08-10 16:42:54 <sipa> as you need a differently serialized public key
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 635 2014-08-10 17:19:01 <Guest64482> How is this a valid chainstate leveldb key: 63001c443c40b4c4db6a6ea598c31c8a5a637fcb51cf85116970d92903124?
 636 2014-08-10 17:19:25 <Guest64482> Hex 63 ix 'c', the rest of it doesn't appear to be a TX hash?
 637 2014-08-10 17:19:58 <sipa> why not?
 638 2014-08-10 17:20:36 <sipa> it's possibly byteswapped
 639 2014-08-10 17:20:55 <Guest64482> look it up... doesn't exist, nor the hex reversed version: 2431029d970691185cf51bfc37a6a5c8318c9a56e6adbc4b4403c441c0063
 640 2014-08-10 17:20:57 Pucilowski has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 641 2014-08-10 17:21:08 <sipa> it's usually shown in big endian (as a hex number), but stored in little endian
 642 2014-08-10 17:21:29 <sipa> remove the 63 at the end
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 645 2014-08-10 17:22:14 <Guest64482> non-existent: blockchain.info/tx/2431029d970691185cf51bfc37a6a5c8318c9a56e6adbc4b4403c441c00
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 651 2014-08-10 17:26:56 <sipa> can you find any other entries?
 652 2014-08-10 17:26:59 <Guest64482> sipa, the stackoverflow comment you made has been very helpful, but i'm not getting passed this. all the keys i'm getting from chainstate appear invalid. i'm not reading it correctly obviously
 653 2014-08-10 17:27:19 <Guest64482> (or blockchain index) for that matter
 654 2014-08-10 17:29:52 <sipa> strange
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 664 2014-08-10 17:36:01 <Guest64482> e.g. another entry: 2eba1152f531901f743dd16c155d2ff4f2c61c884787f41f54c6c7e4c0063
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 674 2014-08-10 17:46:27 <sipa> you're sure you're not looking at a testnet chainstate or something?
 675 2014-08-10 17:46:33 <sipa> what's in the 'B' entry?
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 680 2014-08-10 17:50:03 <Guest64482> not testnet for sure. For 'B' value: c758304b58df93857c4071f88059f632ddfc608cf643a93a00000000
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 700 2014-08-10 18:10:50 <sipa> that's only 56 characters... it should be 64
 701 2014-08-10 18:11:28 <sipa> and your txid was 59?
 702 2014-08-10 18:11:33 <sipa> should be 64 as well
 703 2014-08-10 18:11:57 <Guest64482> preaching to the quire ;-)
 704 2014-08-10 18:11:59 <Guest64482> value_value = it->value().ToString();
 705 2014-08-10 18:12:08 <Guest64482> std::cout << string_to_hex(value_value);
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 708 2014-08-10 18:12:37 <Guest64482> it is the chainstate leveldb::Iterator
 709 2014-08-10 18:12:56 <Guest64482> 'it'
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 713 2014-08-10 18:16:18 <sipa> eh
 714 2014-08-10 18:16:25 <sipa> are you sure? that seems pretty broken
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 716 2014-08-10 18:17:19 <sipa> it->value().size()... what does that give you?
 717 2014-08-10 18:18:20 <Guest64482> 32
 718 2014-08-10 18:18:23 <sipa> there must be something wrong with your to hex function
 719 2014-08-10 18:18:31 <sipa> as the txid you gave me has an odd number of characters
 720 2014-08-10 18:18:41 <sipa> which can't possibly be the result of hex conversion
 721 2014-08-10 18:19:32 <Guest64482> let me take another look at the hex function
 722 2014-08-10 18:19:32 <sipa> i know!
 723 2014-08-10 18:20:06 <sipa> you convert byte values below 16 to a single hex character instead of prepending a 0
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 737 2014-08-10 18:38:07 <wumpus> hehe
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 760 2014-08-10 19:43:14 <spike1> hi guys, I'm trying to use testnet but bitcoind isn't connecting to any peer on testnet
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 762 2014-08-10 19:43:38 <spike1> I'm using a custom -conf and -data-dir to isolate from usual bitcoin dir
 763 2014-08-10 19:43:47 elgrecoFL has joined
 764 2014-08-10 19:43:54 <spike1> am I doing something wrong ?
 765 2014-08-10 19:44:51 <spike1> I hope I'm not asking in the wrong channel
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 767 2014-08-10 19:46:50 <Guest64482> thanks sipa! the value conversion to hex string was messed up. looking good now
 768 2014-08-10 19:46:51 <Guest64482> http://blockexplorer.com/block/00000000000000003aa943f68c60fcdd32f65980f871407c8593df584b3058c7
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 773 2014-08-10 19:51:17 <wumpus> spike1: connecting to peers or not doesn't have anything to do with the location of your data directory or configuration file
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 775 2014-08-10 19:51:31 <wumpus> spike1: have you perhaps configured a proxy that doesn't work?
 776 2014-08-10 19:51:42 <wumpus> spike1: anything with regard to network failures in debug.log?
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 778 2014-08-10 19:52:29 <wumpus> perhaps the bootstrapping went wrong, in that case it may help to manuallly add some peers
 779 2014-08-10 19:53:08 melvster has joined
 780 2014-08-10 19:53:26 <wumpus> (I don't have any at hand right now, but someone in this channel may be able to help you with a working testnet node address)
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 790 2014-08-10 20:03:27 <andytoshi> i got "what needs to be hashed for a CHECKSIG on a standard pay-to-pubkeyhash" right on my second try :)
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 794 2014-08-10 20:06:19 <andytoshi> oh, no, third try -- the first time i forgot to add the sighash type entirely
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 797 2014-08-10 20:09:06 <michagogo> cfields: yes, for now
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 809 2014-08-10 20:14:35 <michagogo> 21:20:07 <andytoshi> ok, good to know. for now i'll just use secp256k1 :) <-- For now? WTF have you been using?
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 817 2014-08-10 20:23:31 <iwilcox> andytoshi: You mean that process depicted in https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/File:Bitcoin_OpCheckSig_InDetail.png ?
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 819 2014-08-10 20:25:55 <andytoshi> michagogo: i had no ecdsa code at all
 820 2014-08-10 20:26:04 <andytoshi> iwilcox: yup
 821 2014-08-10 20:26:13 <michagogo> andytoshi: erm
 822 2014-08-10 20:26:14 <michagogo> OH
 823 2014-08-10 20:26:18 <michagogo> Do you mean libsecp256k1?
 824 2014-08-10 20:26:23 <andytoshi> michagogo: lololol yes
 825 2014-08-10 20:26:26 <michagogo> ahhh
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 827 2014-08-10 20:26:39 <michagogo> ...yeah, I misunderstood you
 828 2014-08-10 20:27:01 * andytoshi almost gave away his secret curve which matches secp256k1 on the points that have been used, but is much faster to compute with
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 831 2014-08-10 20:27:20 <michagogo> eh?
 832 2014-08-10 20:27:52 <andytoshi> i'm kidding, i'm suggesting that there is another bitcoin-compatible curve out there that only i know about
 833 2014-08-10 20:28:00 <iwilcox> insecp256k1 :)
 834 2014-08-10 20:28:50 <iwilcox> Is someone profiling memory usage at the moment?  I've a dim memory of it coming up recently.  I ask because (admittedly from just two datapoints) I saw much lower peak and stable memory use with checkblocks=50 than =288, and I'm wondering whether it's worth doing a few runs and plotting /proc/.../status.
 835 2014-08-10 20:29:37 <iwilcox> Seems to me checkblocks shouldn't have any effect on memory use once bitcoind has settled.
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 854 2014-08-10 20:57:24 <cfields> anddam: it's built with clang
 855 2014-08-10 20:57:39 <cfields> wumpus: did you get your stuff built as you wanted?
 856 2014-08-10 20:58:58 <michagogo> cfields: pong?
 857 2014-08-10 21:00:28 <cfields> michagogo: my deps builder is ready for review, was wondering if you'd be interested in taking a look at the docs side of things before-hand rather than after-the-fact like usual :)
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 859 2014-08-10 21:01:16 <michagogo> cfields: maybe tomorrow -- not at my computer anymore tonight, omw to sleep
 860 2014-08-10 21:01:27 <michagogo> But sure, sounds cool
 861 2014-08-10 21:01:32 <cfields> sure
 862 2014-08-10 21:01:35 <michagogo> PM me details?
 863 2014-08-10 21:01:40 <cfields> will do
 864 2014-08-10 21:01:48 <cfields> actually, #bitcoin-build
 865 2014-08-10 21:02:05 <michagogo> Fine.
 866 2014-08-10 21:02:27 <michagogo> (Just want it somewhere low-traffic for easy access later)
 867 2014-08-10 21:02:36 <cfields> ok
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 886 2014-08-10 21:17:49 <ahmed_> anyone here know how to make ubuntu PPA's for bitcoin?
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 888 2014-08-10 21:20:21 <ahmed_> BlueMatt maybe?
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 916 2014-08-10 21:53:05 <dfsdf> i don't know if anyone is still maintaining it, it's was out of date last time i checked it
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 918 2014-08-10 21:54:08 <dfsdf> https://launchpad.net/~bitcoin/+archive/ubuntu/bitcoin
 919 2014-08-10 21:54:54 <dfsdf> looks like it was recently updated
 920 2014-08-10 21:54:59 <ahmed_> dfletcher: thats why I want to start making them
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 969 2014-08-10 22:54:47 <gmaxwell> TD-Linux: you had a libsecp256k1 question/comment? sipa may be around, though depending on what it is someone else might be able to answer
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 973 2014-08-10 22:57:57 <TD-Linux> well I ended up figuring it out. fyi I'm working on a port of libsecp256k1 to mini-gmp
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 977 2014-08-10 23:01:21 <gmaxwell> ah, thats probably a lot more useful than— say— just dumping out the prec table and then eliminating all the multiply code entirely (IIRC once you've got the prec table all you need is the gejge add), for embedded signing.
 978 2014-08-10 23:02:10 <sipa> TD-Linux: cool!
 979 2014-08-10 23:04:22 <sipa> does mini-gmp have all functions you need?
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 987 2014-08-10 23:18:44 <TD-Linux> sipa, it doesn't have the tdiv_qr and gcdext functions in mpn_ form, but does have them in mpz_ form.
 988 2014-08-10 23:19:53 <TD-Linux> the easiest way to fix it would probably be to package the limbs into a mpz_t and then call the mpz functions
 989 2014-08-10 23:20:07 <sipa> an earlier version of the gmp num implementation used mpz, but i changed it to an mpz one because it was slightly faster
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 991 2014-08-10 23:20:12 <sipa> maybe you can still find the old code
 992 2014-08-10 23:20:15 viajero has joined
 993 2014-08-10 23:20:30 <sipa> *to an mpn based one
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 996 2014-08-10 23:22:44 <TD-Linux> I also considered adding the mpn_ functions to mini-gmp. But I'm a bit wary of my understanding of the code
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1012 2014-08-10 23:47:37 <TD-Linux> ack. doing it this way means 8 heap allocations per division :/
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