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  52 2014-08-12 01:10:26 <jiffe> sipa: thanks for the tip on computing recid, that's much more faster than looping through verifies
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 199 2014-08-12 05:01:49 <ben_vulpes> hey sipa, are you around?
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 229 2014-08-12 05:42:47 <sipa> ben_vulpes: sometimes, why?
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 233 2014-08-12 05:46:28 <ben_vulpes> was curious if you'd built the watch-only-wallets branch lately.
 234 2014-08-12 05:46:32 <ben_vulpes> wallets/addresses.
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 238 2014-08-12 05:56:20 <sipa> no
 239 2014-08-12 05:56:41 <sipa> well, it is merged, so i'm building it all the time probably
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 242 2014-08-12 05:56:48 <sipa> but not used it
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 246 2014-08-12 05:58:58 <ben_vulpes> where can i learn some more about using watch-only-wallets?
 247 2014-08-12 05:59:38 <ben_vulpes> i'm totally lost on that front
 248 2014-08-12 06:02:21 <phantomcircuit> it's a bit self evident
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 252 2014-08-12 06:04:18 <drei> hey folks
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 254 2014-08-12 06:05:30 <ben_vulpes> phantomcircuit: color me a moron, then. what do i do? `echo 1MyAddr ~./bitcoin/wallet.dat` ?
 255 2014-08-12 06:05:38 <ben_vulpes> phantomcircuit: color me a moron, then. what do i do? `echo 1MyAddr >> ~./bitcoin/wallet.dat` ?
 256 2014-08-12 06:05:40 <drei> I was looking into customizing QT background color it I did search via hex code of the color yet to see where to change it :D
 257 2014-08-12 06:05:43 <drei> any ideas?
 258 2014-08-12 06:05:45 <drei> win qt
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 260 2014-08-12 06:08:29 <drei> hehehe
 261 2014-08-12 06:09:25 <phantomcircuit> ben_vulpes, https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/API_reference_%28JSON-RPC%29 importaddress
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 263 2014-08-12 06:11:58 <drei> phantomcircuit: have u played with win qt alot?
 264 2014-08-12 06:11:58 <drei> :D
 265 2014-08-12 06:16:08 <ben_vulpes> phantomcircuit: is it just me or is that not even documented?
 266 2014-08-12 06:16:18 <phantomcircuit> ben_vulpes, "help"
 267 2014-08-12 06:16:45 <ben_vulpes> >.<
 268 2014-08-12 06:16:51 <ben_vulpes> ffs.
 269 2014-08-12 06:16:57 * ben_vulpes dies of embarrasment
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 278 2014-08-12 06:41:33 <drei> lol
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 280 2014-08-12 06:47:20 <drei> so no ideas about QT?
 281 2014-08-12 06:47:20 <drei> :D
 282 2014-08-12 06:47:22 <wumpus> drei: background color of what?
 283 2014-08-12 06:47:34 <drei> windows wallet
 284 2014-08-12 06:47:46 <drei> I played with it a bit in QT creator :)
 285 2014-08-12 06:48:04 <wumpus> I believe you can change global colors and such in QPalette
 286 2014-08-12 06:48:10 <drei> yes so I though
 287 2014-08-12 06:48:23 <wumpus> drei: http://qt-project.org/forums/viewthread/25802
 288 2014-08-12 06:49:17 <wumpus> that shows how to make the fusion theme dark, but making it pink would work the same way
 289 2014-08-12 06:49:23 <drei> yes
 290 2014-08-12 06:49:25 <drei> reading
 291 2014-08-12 06:49:53 <drei> ty
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 294 2014-08-12 06:51:07 <wumpus> you can also change some global colors (that can't be set through the palette) with qApp->setStyleSheet 
 295 2014-08-12 06:51:59 <wumpus> these are hacks, the official way to do this would be to create your own theme, but that's not worth it if you're just playing around
 296 2014-08-12 06:52:11 <drei> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/search?q=QPalette&ref=cmdform
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 298 2014-08-12 06:52:43 <drei> yes I was setting to overwrite palette with stylesheet
 299 2014-08-12 06:52:49 <drei> thinking :D
 300 2014-08-12 06:58:03 <drei> oki time to sleep a bit
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 615 2014-08-12 13:15:23 <wumpus> jgarzik: can you reiterate what your actual issues with #4150 are? note that it's NOT a softfork
 616 2014-08-12 13:16:23 <wumpus> I hope you're not just trying to be difficult
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 619 2014-08-12 13:18:36 <jgarzik> wumpus, My issue is process
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 621 2014-08-12 13:19:16 <wumpus> as I see it, all the issues raised about that pull were fixed
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 625 2014-08-12 13:19:44 <wumpus> there were only remarks that it could be done differently (doing full resource accounting etc) but that doesn't exclude merging this first, until someone actually implements that
 626 2014-08-12 13:20:43 <hearn> i'm not sure requiring >1 signoff makes sense
 627 2014-08-12 13:21:03 <jgarzik> Yes, it needs more than one ACK on anything non-trivial.  That's the rule.
 628 2014-08-12 13:21:11 <wumpus> hearn: well it should be clear that people looked at it
 629 2014-08-12 13:21:27 <wumpus> and that's clear, people went over it, made comments, those were addressed, then it's ok with me
 630 2014-08-12 13:21:45 <hearn> right. review is important
 631 2014-08-12 13:21:45 <jgarzik> wumpus, Upon reorg, do we dump all non-standard transactions?
 632 2014-08-12 13:21:47 <wumpus> anyhow feel free to merge it again when you feel happy about it, I'll pull my hands off it
 633 2014-08-12 13:21:55 <sipa> jgarzik: "dump" ?
 634 2014-08-12 13:21:59 <jgarzik> forget
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 636 2014-08-12 13:22:13 <sipa> they don't move to our mempool, no
 637 2014-08-12 13:22:25 <jgarzik> ok, then same consequence here.
 638 2014-08-12 13:22:34 <jgarzik> ok with ACK'ing
 639 2014-08-12 13:22:36 <wumpus> but that's already the case, nothing changes there
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 641 2014-08-12 13:23:47 <wumpus> after a reorg there is no difference to the mempool for 'old' transactions and 'new' transactions
 642 2014-08-12 13:23:50 <jgarzik> wumpus, it has 3 ACKs now
 643 2014-08-12 13:23:53 <wumpus> they could still be miend, though
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 645 2014-08-12 13:24:14 <hearn> are these rules written down anywhere?
 646 2014-08-12 13:24:18 <jgarzik> after a reorg, all non-standard etc. transactions are forgotten.
 647 2014-08-12 13:24:26 <jgarzik> and must be re-mined without relay.
 648 2014-08-12 13:24:36 <wumpus> indeed
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 650 2014-08-12 13:25:13 <wumpus> hearn: there is something in the readme file under development process
 651 2014-08-12 13:25:32 <wumpus> but no specific rules, no
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 656 2014-08-12 13:27:54 <jgarzik> hearn, I will track people down and yell at them if non-trivial things are merged without >1 signoff from "core devs"
 657 2014-08-12 13:28:13 <jgarzik> hearn, that's important in case people are wrong-headed, under duress, etc. etc. byzantine etc.
 658 2014-08-12 13:28:13 <sipa> i'm fine with people yelling from time to time
 659 2014-08-12 13:28:34 <jgarzik> Important for project health and decentralization.
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 662 2014-08-12 13:29:11 <hearn> ah yes, and the process for becoming a core dev is .... ?
 663 2014-08-12 13:29:18 <wumpus> I'm fine with yelling, but I'm not convinced of the reason here, but anyhow I don't feel like dwelling on it either
 664 2014-08-12 13:30:12 <wumpus> I'm ok with it if you think I made a judgement error here, and as said feel free to merge the patch again when you think it's properly reviewed
 665 2014-08-12 13:30:53 <wumpus> as said, proper review is important
 666 2014-08-12 13:31:08 <sipa> hearn: that's not a reasonable argument; the decision to make changes in any open source project is done by the maintainers of that software - and things get forked or reimplemented if that mechanism doesn't work
 667 2014-08-12 13:31:41 <sipa> hearn: it's different when it is about consensus changes to the network, where i don't believe bitcoin core devs should have a privileged position in deciding
 668 2014-08-12 13:32:19 <wumpus> sure, for consensus changes it is always required to have discussion on the mailing list
 669 2014-08-12 13:32:22 <jgarzik> wumpus, my objection was purely process, not content-based
 670 2014-08-12 13:32:35 <jgarzik> kinda like pushing a binary with just one gitian sig
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 672 2014-08-12 13:32:41 <jgarzik> easily remedied
 673 2014-08-12 13:32:42 <hearn> i don't think i was making an argument, no? i was asking how this "jeff yells at people" process is supposed to work. because this "process" is news to me.
 674 2014-08-12 13:32:51 <hearn> and i really don't think new processes should be made up on the fly like this
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 676 2014-08-12 13:33:02 <wumpus> in principle anyone can yell at any moment hearn :)
 677 2014-08-12 13:33:13 <wumpus> that's not jeff's privileged position
 678 2014-08-12 13:33:14 <sipa> hearn: apologies if i misinterpreted
 679 2014-08-12 13:33:39 <hearn> right. i mean, requiring multiple signoff for "non trivial" changes with a small group of people seems like design by committee to me.
 680 2014-08-12 13:33:46 <hearn> i had some bad experiences with such things in my last job
 681 2014-08-12 13:33:48 <wumpus> although if it was a random person I'd not have reverted as soon
 682 2014-08-12 13:33:59 <hearn> sure, i understand that. not worried about this particular change.
 683 2014-08-12 13:35:04 <wumpus> but it's ok for everyone to speak up if you think something is going wrong
 684 2014-08-12 13:37:38 <wumpus> hearn: yes, absolutely me experience too, too much focus on checklists of rules tends to cost a lot of time in itself and distract people from what matters ("I just need to run around and collect signoffs")
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 691 2014-08-12 13:50:45 <jgarzik> >1 signoffs from "sane people" for "network facing/impacting changes" is not an unreasonable hurdle.
 692 2014-08-12 13:51:15 <jgarzik> Given the amount of value at stake, the number of clueful people readily available, and the consequences of getting it wrong.
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 695 2014-08-12 13:52:03 <jgarzik> As noted, you have to assume an ACK might be wrongheaded, be sponsored by the wrong people or incentives, might be under duress.
 696 2014-08-12 13:52:12 <chichov> any way to directly initialize a CKey from a char vector or similar?
 697 2014-08-12 13:54:01 <jgarzik> chichov, .Set()
 698 2014-08-12 13:54:19 <chichov> well, then I have to first initialize an empty CKey, but alright
 699 2014-08-12 13:55:11 <jgarzik> chichov, can certainly add another constructor variant, if that's called for.
 700 2014-08-12 13:55:28 <chichov> I don't need it that badly, thank you
 701 2014-08-12 13:55:31 <sipa> chichov: i'm sure you can construct 100 million empty CKey's per second
 702 2014-08-12 13:55:53 <chichov> sipa: in that case it barely makes any difference then, thanks
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 781 2014-08-12 15:24:26 <da2ce7> 20 btc: for a good programer who has some spare time and wants to help the open source community: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=735985
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 788 2014-08-12 15:36:27 <jrick> fyi, bip0044 specifiec the hd path to be m/44'/cointype'/ where cointype is 0 for mainnet, and 1 for testnet.  For our wallet we also want to support simnet, and were thinking of using 2.  Obviously this is a non-standard network, but is there any recommended way to "reserve" these types?
 789 2014-08-12 15:36:53 <jrick> or we could use something like 115 (s) which is less likely to collide with other's additions
 790 2014-08-12 15:37:19 <wumpus> jrick: is simnet an altcoin or something that has to do with bitcoin?
 791 2014-08-12 15:37:33 <jrick> it's an alt bitcoin network designed for simulation testing
 792 2014-08-12 15:37:40 <jrick> similar to regtest
 793 2014-08-12 15:38:17 <wumpus> if it's a public bitcoin-related project, requesting a number is entirely valid
 794 2014-08-12 15:38:38 <jrick> I can't link to the specific parameters, but search for SimNetParams here http://godoc.org/github.com/conformal/btcnet
 795 2014-08-12 15:38:45 <wumpus> if it's just some internal thing, make up a number
 796 2014-08-12 15:39:06 <wumpus> (that's why regtest has no number assigned; everyone's regtest is different, so sharing anumber makes no sense)
 797 2014-08-12 15:39:57 <jrick> right, well simnet is similar but isn't just for single node tests
 798 2014-08-12 15:40:20 <wumpus> neither is regtest, the tests usually create about 4 nodes
 799 2014-08-12 15:40:25 <wumpus> but there is no global network
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 802 2014-08-12 15:43:06 <jrick> in btcd there's specific checks when running in simnet mode, which don't exist with regtest, to prevent the network from becomming public
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 805 2014-08-12 15:43:17 <jrick> getaddrs are ignored, for example
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 808 2014-08-12 15:44:59 <jrick> and there's no automatic node discovery
 809 2014-08-12 15:45:12 <jrick> (only connects to the specific nodes you specify)
 810 2014-08-12 15:45:25 <sipa> any other differences?
 811 2014-08-12 15:45:45 <jrick> different ports but no I think that's it
 812 2014-08-12 15:46:08 <sipa> seems like your version of regtest to me, then :)
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 815 2014-08-12 15:49:11 <wumpus> yes, seems exactly like regtest
 816 2014-08-12 15:50:03 <jrick> oh and the difficulty is different
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 818 2014-08-12 15:50:16 <davec> Yeah, it's like regtest, but slightly different.  regtest needs a few special non-standard things for the pull tester to work and uses the same parameters for address, hd extended keys, etc as testnet.  Simnet has the same difficulty as regtet, but, as jrick said, it actively stops address propagation...
 819 2014-08-12 15:50:40 <sipa> stopping address propagation makes sense for regtest too
 820 2014-08-12 15:50:40 <wumpus> so, just make up a number, the outside world won't ever see it anyhow
 821 2014-08-12 15:50:46 <davec> has unique addresses, doesn't allow fuzzing that regtest does, etc
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 823 2014-08-12 15:50:54 <sipa> though all automatic testing tolls already run with it command line flags to prevent it from connecting out
 824 2014-08-12 15:50:57 <jrick> wumpus: ok
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 826 2014-08-12 15:51:05 <sipa> fuzzing?
 827 2014-08-12 15:51:30 <jrick> regtest uses the testnet3 encoding magics
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 829 2014-08-12 15:52:05 <sipa> what do you mean by fuzzing?
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 832 2014-08-12 15:55:14 <davec> well, regtest has to allow malformed messages without disconnecting
 833 2014-08-12 15:55:33 <sipa> oh that, right
 834 2014-08-12 15:55:55 <sipa> those should all just individual command line flags imho, rather than network parameters
 835 2014-08-12 15:56:57 <davec> it also pushes blocks without them being requested (which I know isn't a problem in bitcoind since it accepts that without complaint)
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 843 2014-08-12 16:04:17 <davec> but I still contend that processing block and tx data from remote peers that you didn't request via an inv first isn't a good idea in general.  I realize the intent with bloom filters is to cut down on the round trip, but bypassing the way the protocol is intended to work is meh
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 847 2014-08-12 16:05:01 <davec> I could have already requested it from another peer, it could be locally cached already, etc
 848 2014-08-12 16:05:18 <sipa> why would you require an inv first, if you *know* nobody else has it?
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 850 2014-08-12 16:05:28 <sipa> (because you just mined it yourself)
 851 2014-08-12 16:05:51 <sipa> you don't gain anything by rejecting early
 852 2014-08-12 16:06:03 <sipa> unless, i guess, you process the block header before the entire block is received
 853 2014-08-12 16:06:07 <sipa> which is possible in theory
 854 2014-08-12 16:06:58 <davec> correct
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 856 2014-08-12 16:09:14 <hearn> woot:   bitcoinj now has a pluggable tx signing framework. along with married hd key chains this is what we need for an initial risk analysed wallet
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 858 2014-08-12 16:13:11 <michagogo> Looks like bitcoin has hit the 7 day threshold on http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/pending-sru.html \o/
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 866 2014-08-12 16:18:25 <michagogo> I think it should (finally!) get removed tonight
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 872 2014-08-12 16:30:12 <RockHoster__> Any admin here
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 878 2014-08-12 16:33:17 <RockHoster__> any admin here
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 881 2014-08-12 16:34:10 <sipa> maybe
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 891 2014-08-12 16:38:07 <michagogo> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/bitcoin/+bug/1314616/comments/8
 892 2014-08-12 16:38:09 <michagogo> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/bitcoin/+bug/1314616/comments/9
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 894 2014-08-12 16:38:17 * michagogo pulls a party popper
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 956 2014-08-12 17:24:51 <jgarzik> Starting to document the bitcoin development process, https://github.com/jgarzik/bitcoin/blob/2014_process_doc/doc/devel-process.md
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 964 2014-08-12 17:32:26 <sugarpuff> why isn't the mining pool traffic encrypted thus allowing the bgp attack to work?
 965 2014-08-12 17:33:28 <buZz> sugarpuff: feel free to rewrite stratum to support encryption while also keeping the hashrenters in business
 966 2014-08-12 17:33:44 <buZz> sugarpuff: also BGP attack doesnt have to change traffic at all
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 968 2014-08-12 17:33:51 <buZz> so it would still be possible
 969 2014-08-12 17:34:19 <sugarpuff> buZz: i know it doesn't have to change traffic. if traffic were encrypted with pool's key it would be safe though
 970 2014-08-12 17:34:36 <sugarpuff> clearly i'm missing some critical piece of understanding
 971 2014-08-12 17:34:55 <sugarpuff> wrt the mining pool protocol stuff (with which i'm unfamiliar)
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 973 2014-08-12 17:35:24 <buZz> its well documented on that .pl website
 974 2014-08-12 17:35:33 <sugarpuff> buZz: link?
 975 2014-08-12 17:35:38 <buZz> https://mining.bitcoin.cz/stratum-mining
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 977 2014-08-12 17:35:40 <buZz> .cz :D
 978 2014-08-12 17:35:42 <buZz> hehe
 979 2014-08-12 17:35:52 <sugarpuff> buZz: thank you, will read
 980 2014-08-12 17:36:00 <buZz> hf!
 981 2014-08-12 17:36:06 <sugarpuff> :)
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 984 2014-08-12 17:40:48 <sugarpuff> over on #ethereum the answer i got was "because it is proof of concept version 5 / there is no encryption implemented yet"
 985 2014-08-12 17:41:07 <buZz> yeah, similar
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 993 2014-08-12 17:51:57 <sugarpuff> eh, now the guy says he thought i was referring to ethereum, so i still don't have my answer. have been asking around w/no luck. but gtg soon for a doc apptmnt
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1000 2014-08-12 17:56:52 <buZz> sugarpuff: there is no reason its not implemented beside the fact that noone has implemented it yet
1001 2014-08-12 17:57:18 <sugarpuff> buZz: yeah, that's what i'm leaning toward too, just wanted to double-check to see if there was some technical issue or not
1002 2014-08-12 17:57:30 <sugarpuff> it's kinda crazy though
1003 2014-08-12 17:57:34 <sugarpuff> "free money"
1004 2014-08-12 17:57:45 <buZz> you are new to cryptocurrencies?
1005 2014-08-12 17:57:52 <sugarpuff> no
1006 2014-08-12 17:58:06 <sipa> it's hardly "free" (except as in freedom)
1007 2014-08-12 17:58:20 <buZz> there is a lotter of power and money being invested in mining
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1009 2014-08-12 17:58:26 <sugarpuff> sipa: well, with a little bit of effort, the attackers got a bunch of free bitcoins
1010 2014-08-12 17:58:34 <sipa> oh that
1011 2014-08-12 17:58:48 <buZz> sugarpuff: well, the effort would have been higher if those network admins had a bit more clue ;)
1012 2014-08-12 17:59:06 <buZz> BGP hacks like this are supercommon
1013 2014-08-12 17:59:31 <buZz> even ppl paid 5k a month to only administrate BGP still make errors in configuration
1014 2014-08-12 18:00:16 <sugarpuff> kthx guys! seems like dev oversight is the answer. gtg thx!
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1017 2014-08-12 18:00:25 <sipa> s/oversight/lazyness/
1018 2014-08-12 18:00:30 <sipa> s/oversight/priorities/
1019 2014-08-12 18:00:40 <buZz> what i dont like , is that dell made it look like they stole 6k usd a day for 4 months
1020 2014-08-12 18:00:50 <buZz> while it was more like 25k usd -total-
1021 2014-08-12 18:00:54 <buZz> still not nothing
1022 2014-08-12 18:01:02 <buZz> but also not 6k*31*4
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1077 2014-08-12 19:00:43 <dgenr8> ;seen petertodd
1078 2014-08-12 19:01:13 <dgenr8> oh bugger how does that work
1079 2014-08-12 19:01:20 <_Willy_> ;;
1080 2014-08-12 19:01:27 <dgenr8> ;;seen petertodd
1081 2014-08-12 19:01:27 <gribble> petertodd was last seen in #bitcoin-dev 2 weeks, 1 day, 20 hours, 6 minutes, and 55 seconds ago: <petertodd> wiretapped: and this whole "miners may block your releases" thing is BS - them doing so destroys bitcoin as well, particularly if you use a timelock crypto scheme to force them to do so via whitelist rather than a blacklist
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1154 2014-08-12 20:25:05 <crunk-juice> can someone give me a few testnet nodes I can connect to
1155 2014-08-12 20:28:28 <netg_> use static-testnet-seed.bitcoin.petertodd.org
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1157 2014-08-12 20:28:34 <netg_> dns seed
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1160 2014-08-12 20:29:46 <dhill> crunk-juice: testnet-seed.alexykot.me
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1165 2014-08-12 20:31:57 <crunk-juice> thanks
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