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   2 2014-08-16 00:02:47 <andytoshi> OP_HASH160 [20-byte-hash-value] OP_EQUAL
   3 2014-08-16 00:03:00 <andytoshi> is an output p2sh iff it is of that form/
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   6 2014-08-16 00:09:04 <andytoshi> yes, thx CScript::IsPayToScriptHash() in script.cpp says this
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   8 2014-08-16 00:11:08 <alferz> hey andy, any idea of tools that can parse the blockchain including orphans?
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  10 2014-08-16 00:12:04 <andytoshi> alferz: 'fraid not, i don't know anything about bitcoind's serialization
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  39 2014-08-16 00:49:38 <gmaxwell> Luke-Jr: could you please avoid setting slush off?
  40 2014-08-16 00:50:43 <gmaxwell> Luke-Jr: Go make it right.
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  47 2014-08-16 00:53:03 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: there is nothing to make right. he's essentially trying to abuse his position to force scamcoins into the BIP repository.
  48 2014-08-16 00:54:20 <gmaxwell> Luke-Jr: We would like his participation, right?  Sometimes that means accomidating things which we're pretty sure is the other person being foolish.  In this case, the fact that _one_ person has opposed it isn't a reason for him to pull out, but he feels like it is and that should be fixed.
  49 2014-08-16 00:54:23 <jgarzik> some of the BIPs clearly apply to other cryptocurrencies, and there is little harm and much benefit to avoid colliding on a few things
  50 2014-08-16 00:55:16 <BlueMatt> but explicitly allocating a coin type for litecoin is not ideal
  51 2014-08-16 00:55:27 <gmaxwell> and on that point, while I agree non-bitcoin things shouldn't generally be in BIPs we benefit on not colliding. You can imagine it as a "dont use this because litecoin is" perhaps?   but whatever, maybe it's ultimately decided to not include it, we still don't want the outcome where slush pulls out in a huff.
  52 2014-08-16 00:56:04 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: I agree the community is better off with his participation, but I don't think it should entitle him to doing this.
  53 2014-08-16 00:56:12 <gmaxwell> So it would be helpful if you go show him that you do value his participation even though you don't agree on this point.
  54 2014-08-16 00:56:43 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: yes, I think we should have a "here, these numbers are reserved for non-bitcoin uses"
  55 2014-08-16 00:56:49 <BlueMatt> but not "this one number is reserved for litecoin"
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  57 2014-08-16 00:57:22 <gmaxwell> See, thats a cooperative alternative. (I'm not giving favor to it, I haven't thought about it really) but had you instead proposed that perhaps he wouldn't have had such an adverse reaction.
  58 2014-08-16 00:57:40 <gmaxwell> (I'm not even saying this to chide you, I'm being utilitarian here.)
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  66 2014-08-16 01:06:08 <gmaxwell> warren: are there any litcoin registries for specs and assignments?
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 145 2014-08-16 03:01:38 <petertodd> alferz: python-bitcoinlib can do that; see the examples/ directory for some code that creates blocks in the block format. should be easy enough to change that to extract blocks. also, if you get anywhere doing that, please consider sending me some/all of that code so we can add it to the examples/ directory
 146 2014-08-16 03:02:45 <petertodd> alferz: oh, I see amiller answered you
 147 2014-08-16 03:03:50 <petertodd> Luke-Jr: come up with a reasonable solution for address prefixes when we start  needing to allocate them for sidechains...
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 149 2014-08-16 03:05:11 <Luke-Jr> petertodd: ?
 150 2014-08-16 03:06:02 <petertodd> Luke-Jr: we'll want to have the concept of an address for various sidechain uses I can guarantee you
 151 2014-08-16 03:06:14 <petertodd> Luke-Jr: e.g. imagine a zerocash sidechain
 152 2014-08-16 03:06:21 <dsnrk> I should do a BIP writeup about my alternate to base58 encoding. instead of a human readable character set, we use all zero-width unicode characters. lot higher information density, and would lead to less thefts as nobody could ever write code to properly handle UTF16.
 153 2014-08-16 03:06:43 <Luke-Jr> dsnrk: ._.
 154 2014-08-16 03:06:58 <petertodd> dsnrk: <insert unicode joke here>
 155 2014-08-16 03:07:05 <Luke-Jr> petertodd: why not payment protocol?
 156 2014-08-16 03:07:30 <petertodd> Luke-Jr: exactly same issue...
 157 2014-08-16 03:07:35 RoboTeddy has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 158 2014-08-16 03:07:41 <Luke-Jr> petertodd: not exactly, no.
 159 2014-08-16 03:07:56 WeCluster has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 160 2014-08-16 03:08:11 <petertodd> anyway, as stealth shows, interactive payment protocols are frequently not appropriate, never mind debugging and other low-level usage
 161 2014-08-16 03:08:33 <dsnrk> in all seriousness altcoins have completely exhausted the address byte space. at my last count there's over 10 altcoins per byte. even Litecoin collides with Bitcoin's version byte for P2SH.
 162 2014-08-16 03:08:52 <Luke-Jr> dsnrk: they can be ignored. the version byte is for Bitcoin versions.
 163 2014-08-16 03:08:59 <Luke-Jr> Bitcoin address versions*
 164 2014-08-16 03:09:20 <petertodd> dsnrk: IMO the whole idea of different version bytes for different alts is probably suspect anyway, just do btc:<addr>, ltc:<addr> etc.
 165 2014-08-16 03:09:27 <Luke-Jr> that being said, there may be other reasons to replace base58 anyway
 166 2014-08-16 03:09:31 <dsnrk> Luke-Jr: I know, but that doesn't stop the immediate problem that Litecoin and Bitcoin P2SH addresses look the exact same.
 167 2014-08-16 03:10:14 <dsnrk> people are used to identifying them visually, while that is probably a bad idea people still do it.
 168 2014-08-16 03:10:18 <Luke-Jr> jgarzik: please explain how defining standards for Litecoin is any way improves Bitcoin. BIPs had a clear policy against defining altcoin things until now.
 169 2014-08-16 03:10:25 <Luke-Jr> in any way*
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 171 2014-08-16 03:14:27 <dsnrk> Luke-Jr: what would you rather see in place of bip58?
 172 2014-08-16 03:16:36 imton has joined
 173 2014-08-16 03:17:00 <Luke-Jr> dsnrk: a while back, I wrote https://sourceforge.net/p/bitcoin/mailman/message/30850922/ - I think gmaxwell had some ideas to improve on it
 174 2014-08-16 03:17:36 <jgarzik> Luke-Jr, popular field use, like it or not
 175 2014-08-16 03:17:47 <Luke-Jr> jgarzik: hm?
 176 2014-08-16 03:18:55 <dsnrk> Luke-Jr: how do you tell apart Y and y on a 7 segment display?
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 178 2014-08-16 03:20:21 <Luke-Jr> dsnrk: I don't recall
 179 2014-08-16 03:20:22 <dsnrk> actually, yeah you could set the bottom segment to make it lowercase.
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 181 2014-08-16 03:21:19 <petertodd> dsnrk: >7 segment displays are pretty cheap anyway
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 183 2014-08-16 03:21:49 <dsnrk> of course, you could show a whole c32d encoded address on a $3 OLED panel
 184 2014-08-16 03:23:03 <Luke-Jr> dsnrk: that costs more than mining ASICs! :P
 185 2014-08-16 03:23:44 <dsnrk> actually for a while you could get a Bitfury chip for about the same, they don't seem to be selling them off the reel anymore though.
 186 2014-08-16 03:24:05 <Luke-Jr> I meant production costs
 187 2014-08-16 03:24:33 <dsnrk> ah
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 195 2014-08-16 03:47:12 <blast> Other than the wiki, and the few releveant threads in the development section of the forum, are there any signifigant development resources regarding the protocol/platform or bitcoind/qt
 196 2014-08-16 03:48:13 <dsnrk> ,,devdocs
 197 2014-08-16 03:48:14 <gribble> Error: "devdocs" is not a valid command.
 198 2014-08-16 03:48:22 <dsnrk> https://bitcoin.org/en/developer-documentation
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 215 2014-08-16 04:08:31 <blast> huzzah!
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 251 2014-08-16 05:05:55 <earlz> Is it possible (albeit extremely stupid) to place a regular transaction as a vin to a coinbase transaction?
 252 2014-08-16 05:06:13 <earlz> and/or has a miner ever done that?
 253 2014-08-16 05:06:56 <earlz> Like in the coinbase transaction, having the coinbase vin, and then having a vin for spending a standard transaction
 254 2014-08-16 05:07:17 <earlz> I have no idea why anyone would ever do that, but trying to cover edge cases with a blockexplorer-ish piece of code I'm writing
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 258 2014-08-16 05:11:47 <dsnrk> I'm almost certain that's not possible
 259 2014-08-16 05:12:27 <dsnrk> the validation for a coinbase transaction check for there only being one vin
 260 2014-08-16 05:13:17 <earlz> ok awesome. cause that'd be a hell of an edge case to handle lol
 261 2014-08-16 05:14:39 <dsnrk> there's other ones you've probably not seen, like not all coinbase transactions have to take the full reward. lots of people make the mistake in assuming that they do. almost no block explorers handle that correctly.
 262 2014-08-16 05:15:23 <earlz> what do you mean by "mishandle"? heh
 263 2014-08-16 05:15:45 <dsnrk> they assume every block takes (fees + reward), when in fact they don't.
 264 2014-08-16 05:16:17 <dsnrk> the limit is an upper bound, not a set value.
 265 2014-08-16 05:16:32 <earlz> ah, yea, mine kinda handles that. It'd print out reward as what they take, and fees as sum of fees from transactions. Not really possible to know through the RPC interface what the currently /available/ block reward is
 266 2014-08-16 05:16:54 <earlz> but really.. why would they not take all the coins from it? lol
 267 2014-08-16 05:17:09 <dsnrk> to break your scripts?
 268 2014-08-16 05:17:23 <earlz> evil miners lol
 269 2014-08-16 05:18:02 <earlz> I'm making a super light weight local block explorer. Just a simple console app in C# for summarizing a range of blocks so far. No database or complicated stuff like that
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 272 2014-08-16 05:18:09 <dsnrk> evil? just make sure your code actually follows what the rules are, not what people tend to do. mistakes like that mean your code works until somebody does something strange.
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 275 2014-08-16 05:18:48 <dsnrk> if I was very slush I would be paying a miner to mine a 0BTC block just to break people's code.
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 277 2014-08-16 05:19:22 <earlz> a 0 BTC block I imagine would cause problems
 278 2014-08-16 05:19:49 <earlz> I imagine a coinbase transaction that isn't pay-to-pubkey might break things too
 279 2014-08-16 05:19:56 <dsnrk> for whom? as far as I know that isn't a problem with regards to block validity.
 280 2014-08-16 05:20:04 <dsnrk> most blocks today don't use pay to pubkey.
 281 2014-08-16 05:20:40 <dsnrk> block at height 315859 "OP_DUP OP_HASH160 c825a1ecf2a6830c4401620c3a16f1995057c2ab OP_EQUALVERIFY OP_CHECKSIG"
 282 2014-08-16 05:20:51 <earlz> really? hmm I never bothered to check. I guess there are miners using non-reference wallets and all
 283 2014-08-16 05:21:49 <dsnrk> the built in miner isn't used for anything, it hasn't been used for years. miners today use Get Block Template, not Get Work which is far too slow even for GPU mining.
 284 2014-08-16 05:22:31 <earlz> I wasn't aware getblocktemplate made pay to address transactions
 285 2014-08-16 05:22:55 <earlz> shows how much I know heh. good thing this explorer is mainly just for personal use
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 290 2014-08-16 05:58:05 <Luke-Jr> earlz: there is no such thing as "pay to address". addresses are an encoding of data, including how to generate a scriptPubKey - but there are multiple forms of those
 291 2014-08-16 05:58:31 <earlz> yea, I couldn't remember the exact name
 292 2014-08-16 05:58:39 <Luke-Jr> earlz: most notable are pay-to-pubkeyhash and pay-to-scripthash, but there are also things like stealth addresses etc
 293 2014-08-16 05:59:04 <earlz> stealth is really interesting heh. I wish I understood it better than I do
 294 2014-08-16 05:59:21 <earlz> stealth fits in a standard transaction right?
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 296 2014-08-16 05:59:58 <Luke-Jr> I'm not entirely sure what you're asking there.
 297 2014-08-16 06:00:18 <Luke-Jr> If you mean IsStandard, making it pass should not be a goal - IsStandard is adjusted to transactions in use, not vice-versa
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 299 2014-08-16 06:00:57 <earlz> I mean is using a stealth transaction a "isstandard" transaction? I'm not entirely how it works at that level
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 302 2014-08-16 06:05:06 <Luke-Jr> earlz: how it works is that when/if stealth addresses are standardised, "is using it a 'isstandard' transaction" should be ignored entirely, and later IsStandard should be modified to accomidate what makes the most sense for them
 303 2014-08-16 06:06:35 one_zero has quit ()
 304 2014-08-16 06:08:54 <earlz> well, you're not understanding. I'm asking if stealth was just a special way of generating a public key or some such, but that doesn't actually appear to be it, so it'd be a non-standard transaction
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 306 2014-08-16 06:10:35 <dsnrk> it's a p2pkh + op_return transaction, which is standard.
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 314 2014-08-16 06:19:42 <petertodd> Luke-Jr: "IsStandard is adjusted to transactions in use" is rediculously impractical; people only use transaction forms that are convenient to use
 315 2014-08-16 06:20:13 <Luke-Jr> petertodd: "in use" being "has a specification for how to use it that way", not actual userbase
 316 2014-08-16 06:20:46 YoY has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 317 2014-08-16 06:20:59 imton has quit (Quit: imton)
 318 2014-08-16 06:21:07 <petertodd> ...and no-one with any sense is going to write stuff that'll take months to deploy
 319 2014-08-16 06:21:54 <Luke-Jr> why not?
 320 2014-08-16 06:21:59 <Luke-Jr> months to deploy is perfectly reasonable
 321 2014-08-16 06:22:30 <petertodd> when you can do a quick-n-dirty alternative that doesn't, you do that instead
 322 2014-08-16 06:22:55 YoY has joined
 323 2014-08-16 06:23:38 <Luke-Jr> petertodd: and yet nobody uses stealth addresses today
 324 2014-08-16 06:23:50 <btcdrak> Luke-Jr: yet....
 325 2014-08-16 06:23:54 <Luke-Jr> and there are practical problems with its current encoding
 326 2014-08-16 06:24:13 <Luke-Jr> current proposed*
 327 2014-08-16 06:24:23 <petertodd> Luke-Jr: yes, using op-return was a mistake vs. hijacking multisig
 328 2014-08-16 06:24:35 <Luke-Jr> petertodd: it should be OP_DROP
 329 2014-08-16 06:24:49 <dsnrk> from memory there's something like 200 uses of stealth addresses in prodnet
 330 2014-08-16 06:24:59 <petertodd> in the scriptpubkey, yes, but who the heck wants to go through that fight?
 331 2014-08-16 06:25:16 <petertodd> dsnrk: sounds about right
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 334 2014-08-16 06:25:49 <dsnrk> I can't remember what date that was from though
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 338 2014-08-16 06:26:12 <petertodd> dsnrk: well, even I don't have a stealth addr listed for donations :P
 339 2014-08-16 06:26:28 DigiByteDev has joined
 340 2014-08-16 06:28:08 <dsnrk> probably because nothing supports them at all. I don't count sx or darkwallet as real solutions to anything.
 341 2014-08-16 06:28:49 <petertodd> dsnrk: darkwallet coinjoin works pretty well, and is probably the widest use of coinjoin by far (ignoring bc.i's broken implementation)
 342 2014-08-16 06:29:10 <dsnrk> their central server is broken and has been broken for ages
 343 2014-08-16 06:29:26 <dsnrk> I was going to test it, but not having a server to connect to makes that a bit difficult.
 344 2014-08-16 06:30:03 <petertodd> dsnrk: yeah, those guys operate on a shoestring, but, they *did* ship a working beta
 345 2014-08-16 06:30:21 <petertodd> none of the other coinjoin efforts have come close
 346 2014-08-16 06:31:37 <dsnrk> I'll believe it when I see it. bc.i's was claimed to work too.
 347 2014-08-16 06:32:20 <Luke-Jr> petertodd: what fight?
 348 2014-08-16 06:32:42 <petertodd> Luke-Jr: data in the blockchain
 349 2014-08-16 06:32:52 <dsnrk> petertodd: do you have an eample TXID I can look at on test/prodnet?
 350 2014-08-16 06:33:34 <petertodd> dsnrk: on vacation right now on a awful laptop, so I don't; basic principle is just value out matching
 351 2014-08-16 06:34:05 <dsnrk> petertodd: I suppose at least they didn't screw that bit up.
 352 2014-08-16 06:34:29 <dsnrk> and they're not charging people money for it.
 353 2014-08-16 06:34:40 <petertodd> dsnrk: and it's fully opensource
 354 2014-08-16 06:34:55 <dsnrk> so is Shared Coin.
 355 2014-08-16 06:35:30 <petertodd> dsnrk: not in a practical way
 356 2014-08-16 06:35:59 <petertodd> and the bc.i codebase they have released is terrifying
 357 2014-08-16 06:36:16 <dsnrk> it's license is probably invalid, it can't run without bc.i's web wallet service and it's all hardcoded to run on piuk's Mac, but that's the defense they are giving.
 358 2014-08-16 06:36:41 <Luke-Jr> petertodd: you have a point, the OP_DROP-able data probably could be emailed out sent out of band with the explanation of what it's payment for, I suppose. But then you need a heavy scriptPubKey index in case it doesn't arrive first?
 359 2014-08-16 06:36:42 <petertodd> yup, darkwallet's obelisk servers are a pain to setup, but you can do it
 360 2014-08-16 06:36:43 <dsnrk> petertodd: did you look at their block parser code they left in the Shared Coin source? :)
 361 2014-08-16 06:37:02 <petertodd> Luke-Jr: that misses the point of stealth addresses
 362 2014-08-16 06:37:07 DigiByte has joined
 363 2014-08-16 06:37:42 <dsnrk> petertodd: I thought you might enjoy this. https://github.com/blockchain/Sharedcoin/blob/master/website/src/piuk/BitcoinScript.java
 364 2014-08-16 06:37:46 <petertodd> Luke-Jr: what mike hearn proposed was almost exactly what genjix originally proposed to me, and we changed it to in-band to ensure payment atomicity
 365 2014-08-16 06:37:47 <Luke-Jr> petertodd: does it? I thought the point was to not require the recipient to be online and support address reuse
 366 2014-08-16 06:38:18 <petertodd> Luke-Jr: and to have payments as reliable as standard payments; don't provide that and people will lose money and won't use it
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 369 2014-08-16 06:38:34 <Luke-Jr> petertodd: how is that less reliable? O.o
 370 2014-08-16 06:38:37 <petertodd> dsnrk: "enjoy" :P
 371 2014-08-16 06:38:47 DigiByte has joined
 372 2014-08-16 06:38:50 <petertodd> Luke-Jr: something happens to the email == payment is lost in *many* cases
 373 2014-08-16 06:39:30 <Luke-Jr> petertodd: it already might as well be - if you don't know who paid you or why, you might have the funds, but you don't know what for
 374 2014-08-16 06:40:11 <petertodd> Luke-Jr: look, I'm not going to argue this for the sake of "keeping data out of the blockchain" - that's a religious war I don't have time for
 375 2014-08-16 06:40:29 <Luke-Jr> petertodd: you suggested it ;)
 376 2014-08-16 06:40:47 <dsnrk> petertodd: well, getting them to fix any mistakes in their script parsing is like pulling teeth.
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 437 2014-08-16 09:11:16 <so> maybe they'll switch to coinshuffle soon
 438 2014-08-16 09:12:05 <dsnrk> I doubt it. that's a lot of code to change, and the current one makes them the money.
 439 2014-08-16 09:12:31 mE\Ta has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 440 2014-08-16 09:12:55 <so> I thought they retired it after it was shown to be useless
 441 2014-08-16 09:13:18 <dsnrk> no, they still sell it. they just have a blog post nobody has seen about how it's a toy and not for real privacy.
 442 2014-08-16 09:14:02 <so> which reminds me, is there any proposal for standardizing denominations? This would help shuffling or mixing
 443 2014-08-16 09:14:18 jctb has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
 444 2014-08-16 09:15:01 <so> encourage wallet implementations to send out Z_p or quarter, nickel, etc quantities
 445 2014-08-16 09:15:01 MaxSan has joined
 446 2014-08-16 09:16:33 <so> they seem to have the right direction, but maybe not enough developers
 447 2014-08-16 09:16:44 jctb has joined
 448 2014-08-16 09:17:00 <dsnrk> they have 20 developers.
 449 2014-08-16 09:17:07 <dsnrk> well, 20 employees.
 450 2014-08-16 09:17:10 <so> I don't think so
 451 2014-08-16 09:17:28 <dsnrk> https://blockchain.info/about
 452 2014-08-16 09:18:39 sol__ has joined
 453 2014-08-16 09:19:24 <dsnrk> technology officer (writes all the code), seniour developer, movile developer, product director, developer, software developer, junior developer, web developer, operations specialist, software developer.
 454 2014-08-16 09:19:29 <so> half those seem to be mobile or front end guys that probably came with zeroblock and the charting apps, I think there are really only 2-3 guys working on the java backend
 455 2014-08-16 09:19:39 <dsnrk> s/seniour/senior
 456 2014-08-16 09:20:42 bedeho has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 457 2014-08-16 09:20:58 <dsnrk> they must all be employeed to make cakes or something. they still haven't fixed the show stopper bug they were told about 3 weeks ago.
 458 2014-08-16 09:21:04 <so> basically ben and matt, maybe some kevin
 459 2014-08-16 09:21:12 <SomeoneWeird> lol ver
 460 2014-08-16 09:21:19 <so> what's the show stopper?
 461 2014-08-16 09:21:42 <dsnrk> I shouldn't say.
 462 2014-08-16 09:22:10 <dsnrk> it's public, but I'd rather not draw attention to it.
 463 2014-08-16 09:22:16 <SomeoneWeird> yah
 464 2014-08-16 09:23:30 damethos has joined
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 466 2014-08-16 09:24:11 <dsnrk> lets just say that their response has been less than stellar.
 467 2014-08-16 09:26:09 vfor1 has joined
 468 2014-08-16 09:26:28 <vfor1> hi devs
 469 2014-08-16 09:26:51 <vfor1> what's the best way to embed data into transactions?
 470 2014-08-16 09:27:16 <vfor1> is there any JS library for writing and reading data?
 471 2014-08-16 09:27:32 e4xit has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
 472 2014-08-16 09:28:52 <SomeoneWeird> :/
 473 2014-08-16 09:29:14 DachesBella has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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 476 2014-08-16 09:33:01 <wumpus> vfor1: don't embed data into tranactions please
 477 2014-08-16 09:33:16 <so> unless you call it a sidechain
 478 2014-08-16 09:33:23 <so> that's the sidechain attack
 479 2014-08-16 09:34:18 Eiii has quit ()
 480 2014-08-16 09:34:20 <so> "yo dawg, I hear you like blockchains, so I'ma put a blockchain in your blockchain"
 481 2014-08-16 09:35:27 <vfor1> common people
 482 2014-08-16 09:35:32 <vfor1> answer my question
 483 2014-08-16 09:35:36 <dsnrk> please don't do that.
 484 2014-08-16 09:35:40 <vfor1> i gonna pay you a dollar
 485 2014-08-16 09:35:41 <dsnrk> that's all the answer you're going to get.
 486 2014-08-16 09:35:55 <vfor1> smart people here?
 487 2014-08-16 09:36:03 <vfor1> I promise not to use the BTC blockchain
 488 2014-08-16 09:36:10 <vfor1> it's fucked anyway
 489 2014-08-16 09:36:14 <dsnrk> > implying that I'm not smart
 490 2014-08-16 09:36:24 <vfor1> so don't fuck yourself please with embeding data into the BTC blockcahin
 491 2014-08-16 09:36:35 <vfor1> dsnrk:  you are not
 492 2014-08-16 09:36:40 <vfor1> it's official
 493 2014-08-16 09:36:46 <vfor1> vfor1 said this
 494 2014-08-16 09:37:43 <vfor1> anybody who would like to talk with me about embedding data into a alternative blockchain?
 495 2014-08-16 09:37:49 <vfor1> for real
 496 2014-08-16 09:38:24 benrcole has joined
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 502 2014-08-16 09:39:47 <dsnrk> altcoins are off topic.
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 506 2014-08-16 09:44:42 <vfor1> altcoins are very topic
 507 2014-08-16 09:44:43 <vfor1> https://github.com/sarchar/Bitmsg
 508 2014-08-16 09:44:45 <vfor1> btw
 509 2014-08-16 09:45:08 ConnorM has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in)
 510 2014-08-16 09:45:09 <vfor1> for sending and receiving msgs over the bitocin blockchain with python
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 591 2014-08-16 12:03:32 <wumpus> heh, that's a creative way of using if statements in bash: if test x$build_bitcoin_utils$build_bitcoind$bitcoin_enable_qt$use_tests = xnononono; then
 592 2014-08-16 12:03:39 <wumpus> nonononono!
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 594 2014-08-16 12:08:56 <buZz> hahaha
 595 2014-08-16 12:08:56 <buZz> nice
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 664 2014-08-16 14:12:53 <App> Hello there, I'm looking for somebody who would be able to set up a server that would be able to receive and send payments.
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 666 2014-08-16 14:14:09 <App> I have awesome app to being made and looking for a partner that could take care of server side. Would be anybody here interested in that?
 667 2014-08-16 14:14:12 <blast> I think alot of people could do that ;D
 668 2014-08-16 14:14:26 <blast> although I don't know how many people are looking to 'be a partner' on a project
 669 2014-08-16 14:14:38 <App> blast: I don't think so, it's not so easy how it might seem, I guess.
 670 2014-08-16 14:14:45 <blast> as theres so much potential in the coinscape, most people have more projects than time
 671 2014-08-16 14:14:57 <blast> no its pretty easy App
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 673 2014-08-16 14:15:07 <App> really? Tell me more.
 674 2014-08-16 14:15:21 <blast> Do you know PHP or any web dev scripting/deveopment language
 675 2014-08-16 14:15:31 <blast> or
 676 2014-08-16 14:15:38 <blast> nevermind you didnt mention a web frontend
 677 2014-08-16 14:15:44 <blast> do you know pything perl nodejs
 678 2014-08-16 14:15:45 <App> OK, I will tell you some basic info.Wait a while, please.
 679 2014-08-16 14:15:56 <blast> all you said setup a server that send and receive payments
 680 2014-08-16 14:16:15 <blast> thats a wallet deamon, and perhaps a layer infront of it sending and receiving based on the context your desireing ;D
 681 2014-08-16 14:16:22 <blast> via rpc calls to the wallet
 682 2014-08-16 14:18:16 <App>  First of all, this app is damn awesome. I know that everybody claim that but this is kind a different story. Design of a app is done, detailed UML is going to be done soon. Web/Android/iOS app development will be done in 3 months.  But my colleage who should take care of server operations went away to work on some uniqe technology. I have also security consultant who has some experience with bitcoin gateways.
 683 2014-08-16 14:18:40 <App> I am not programmer, I am head of a project, the architect of the whole thing.
 684 2014-08-16 14:20:26 <App> But the last thing I need to have in the whole equasion is a server guy.
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 686 2014-08-16 14:23:43 <Luke-Jr> App: it's generally a bad idea to have a server able to send payments
 687 2014-08-16 14:24:33 <App> Luke: Is there some other way how to send money automatically?
 688 2014-08-16 14:27:52 <App> Let's say you have an app where some kind of credit is needed and that credit needs to be sent back to where it came from time to time.
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 692 2014-08-16 14:30:26 <Luke-Jr> App: have a human involved I guess
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 694 2014-08-16 14:30:52 <App> Luke: Not possible for high traffic.
 695 2014-08-16 14:31:14 <Luke-Jr> nope, then you're just going to have to get super security which doesn't exist yet
 696 2014-08-16 14:32:58 <App> Of course. You're not telling me anything new, yet. I need some guy to make a fully functional prototype and then get more funds more attention and security experts.
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 698 2014-08-16 14:33:51 <App> It can be done, risks could be minimized to a acceptable level.
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 700 2014-08-16 14:37:48 <App> So, does anybody know about possible suitable candidates who would be able to make server work?
 701 2014-08-16 14:40:03 <Luke-Jr> once was more than enough times
 702 2014-08-16 14:43:25 <App> right. I would be more than happy to say more somewhere where it is not logged for ages, using PGP/OTR, perhaps.
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 753 2014-08-16 15:35:00 <gubatron> macbook!~gubatron@99-108-98-111.lightspeed.miamfl.sbcglobal.net|#F1 good day. does anybody trying to run on developer mode get this error? http://pastebin.com/EDSex7QQ (perhaps I'm not invoking it with the right set of parameters)
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 756 2014-08-16 15:35:29 <gubatron> macbook!~gubatron@99-108-98-111.lightspeed.miamfl.sbcglobal.net|my bad, wrong room
 757 2014-08-16 15:35:31 <gubatron> macbook!~gubatron@99-108-98-111.lightspeed.miamfl.sbcglobal.net|woops
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 960 2014-08-16 18:13:09 <Xyu> what's the most popular c# library for bitcoin atm?
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1196 2014-08-16 20:33:04 <ayansh> hi #bitcoin-dev, i am using RelayNodeClient.jar, it is connecting to port 8336, should it connect to 8335?
1197 2014-08-16 20:33:09 <ayansh> for public.region.relay.mattcorallo.com?
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1223 2014-08-16 20:55:16 <hearn> why does regtest mode now attempt to connect to onion addresses
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1240 2014-08-16 21:09:55 <petertodd> vfor1: if you need *proof-of-publication*, i have a library with best practice techniques to get around censorship: https://github.com/petertodd/blockpop However there is a good chamce thats not what you actually need...
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1279 2014-08-16 21:36:24 <jcrubino> do any log structured wallets/nodes have micropayment api's ?
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1282 2014-08-16 21:39:11 <hearn> log structured wallets/nodes?
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1284 2014-08-16 21:39:17 <hearn> iirc no wallets are really log structured
1285 2014-08-16 21:40:01 <jcrubino> hearn: taken from the bitcoinj docs
1286 2014-08-16 21:40:17 <jcrubino> paraphrased
1287 2014-08-16 21:40:56 <jcrubino> my idea was to build a micropayment api gateway
1288 2014-08-16 21:41:45 <hearn> i only know of two micropayment channel implementations. one is in bitcoinj. the other is jeff's in javascript, but not sure if any apps were built on it
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1290 2014-08-16 21:41:53 <jcrubino> specifically for enterprise(y) api gateways
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1295 2014-08-16 21:43:01 <jcrubino> bitcore?
1296 2014-08-16 21:43:22 <hearn> it is based on bitcore but not a part of it, iirc
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1298 2014-08-16 21:43:28 <hearn> it's not compatible with bitcoinj's implementation
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1300 2014-08-16 21:44:24 <jcrubino> what is the lowest hanging fruit for easy adoption of clients and servers?
1301 2014-08-16 21:44:42 <hearn> clients and servers for what?
1302 2014-08-16 21:44:55 <hearn> mpc's are something you build into apps, really, rather than an app by themselves
1303 2014-08-16 21:45:02 <hearn> e.g. look at payfile
1304 2014-08-16 21:45:04 <jcrubino> so they speak the same implementation?
1305 2014-08-16 21:45:11 <jcrubino> protocol
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1307 2014-08-16 21:45:40 <hearn> the way it's meant to be used is, some app has some custom client and custom server, which use the micropayment channel protocol as part of their app protocol
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1310 2014-08-16 21:47:55 <jcrubino> so micropayments do not need to be a standardized protocol?
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1312 2014-08-16 21:48:30 <hearn> not really
1313 2014-08-16 21:48:34 <jcrubino> ok
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1316 2014-08-16 21:49:50 <jcrubino> the micropayments wiki entry seems tangible enough to implement but did not want to get to far from the source
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1318 2014-08-16 21:49:54 <jcrubino> sources
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1323 2014-08-16 21:51:10 <hearn> jcrubino: well it's implemented already.
1324 2014-08-16 21:51:14 <hearn> jcrubino: what's lacking is apps that use it :)
1325 2014-08-16 21:51:30 <hearn> jcrubino: there's a company called strawpay that's trying to build a network of micropayment channel brokers
1326 2014-08-16 21:51:40 <hearn> (using bcj)
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1328 2014-08-16 21:52:25 <jcrubino> I realize that but in your bitcoinj docs the code comes with little warnings about not the best for high transaction useage
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1331 2014-08-16 21:53:11 <jcrubino> "scale-ability"
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1333 2014-08-16 21:54:17 <hearn> what does it say exactly?
1334 2014-08-16 21:54:49 <jcrubino> The Wallet code doesn’t scale, at all.
1335 2014-08-16 21:55:31 <jcrubino> in the "Bugs and Problems" under the Limitations and Missing Features section
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1337 2014-08-16 21:56:25 <jcrubino> for client side that does not seem to be a problem
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1340 2014-08-16 21:56:43 <jcrubino> but for the server side I am being cautious
1341 2014-08-16 21:57:13 <jcrubino> https://bitcoinj.github.io/limitations
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1346 2014-08-16 22:00:50 <hearn> right
1347 2014-08-16 22:01:09 <hearn> well, that's because it records all transactions in ram
1348 2014-08-16 22:01:15 <hearn> forever
1349 2014-08-16 22:01:28 <hearn> for a server you wouldn't need that though. it does this because that's what end user wallets want
1350 2014-08-16 22:01:48 <hearn> so someone could improve that situation by allowing old tx data to be flushed out of the wallet after there's no longer any re-org risk
1351 2014-08-16 22:03:37 <jcrubino> bitcoinj bootstraps inputs from another service?
1352 2014-08-16 22:04:01 <hearn> eh? no
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1355 2014-08-16 22:07:32 <jcrubino> blockstore keeps all relevent blockchain data ... utxos
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1359 2014-08-16 22:10:25 <hearn> jcrubino: it can do. but you don't need that for mpcs
1360 2014-08-16 22:10:44 <poutine> There is an annoying bug that causes this message to repeat in my logfiles because of some non-standard transactions I spent: http://0bin.net/paste/LoSksJH2fLYWQEpN#KJnAH5W23ScknjibRfM0FnXnBXfCSkMd2aQGgxmIHpU
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1365 2014-08-16 22:11:54 <poutine> 75,258 lines in my debug.log consist of those, and there's only 12,149 other lines in that logfile
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1369 2014-08-16 22:12:12 <poutine> It'd be a long shot, but I wonder if you could use that for a log file DoS
1370 2014-08-16 22:12:29 <poutine> well disk space exhaustion
1371 2014-08-16 22:12:49 <jcrubino> hearn: mpcs?  multiparty computation protocols
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1373 2014-08-16 22:12:52 <jcrubino> ?
1374 2014-08-16 22:13:18 <hearn> micropayment channels
1375 2014-08-16 22:13:53 <jcrubino> whew... great : )
1376 2014-08-16 22:14:53 <poutine> Hmm, scratch that, those appear to be transactions I've sent, but it still is a bug that's annoying and fills my logfile
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