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75 2014-08-20 01:59:06 <copumpkin> there comes a time when every full bitcoin node living on a laptop must stop being a full bitcoin node
76 2014-08-20 01:59:10 <copumpkin> and I think I'm getting close to that :/
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79 2014-08-20 02:02:59 <gwillen> copumpkin: my laptop has 1 TB hard drive...
80 2014-08-20 02:03:07 <gwillen> maybe it's time for a new laptop? ;-)
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82 2014-08-20 02:03:46 <gmaxwell> or turn on pruning? (note: currently needs work before it's wallet compatible)
83 2014-08-20 02:03:52 <copumpkin> I prefer fast SSDs to big, since I can store most persistent data off the laptop, so I tend to get small SSDs for less money
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85 2014-08-20 02:04:09 <copumpkin> so call me a cheap-ass perhaps :)
86 2014-08-20 02:04:26 <copumpkin> it's a bitcoin-qt wallet, so I don't think pruning applies :(
87 2014-08-20 02:04:44 Maged has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 31.0/20140716183446])
88 2014-08-20 02:04:56 <gmaxwell> copumpkin: well, it'll apply fine once someone goes through and makes sure it works right. That someone could be you. :)
89 2014-08-20 02:05:06 <copumpkin> hah, not with this wallet it won't be
90 2014-08-20 02:06:10 <gmaxwell> okay you can give me that one for safe keeping⦠and I'll loan you a different one. :)
91 2014-08-20 02:06:15 <copumpkin> hah okay
92 2014-08-20 02:07:30 <copumpkin> mostly just trying to clear off space for now
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94 2014-08-20 02:07:43 <copumpkin> will probably keep the full node on until it hits 30G
95 2014-08-20 02:09:00 <gmaxwell> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820147249 < they take bitcoin
96 2014-08-20 02:09:44 <copumpkin> I'll probably just upgrade the laptop sometime when they offer it with more RAM
97 2014-08-20 02:09:49 <copumpkin> and then get more SSD while I'm at it
98 2014-08-20 02:10:07 <gmaxwell> bc
99 2014-08-20 02:10:28 <copumpkin> boston college?
100 2014-08-20 02:10:36 <gmaxwell> I've heard rumors that the latest t-series lenovos can take 24gigs.
101 2014-08-20 02:11:30 <copumpkin> nice
102 2014-08-20 02:11:46 <copumpkin> wow, no bitcoin-qt in nix
103 2014-08-20 02:11:49 <copumpkin> I'll have to fix that
104 2014-08-20 02:12:09 <copumpkin> oh wait, roconnor might have beaten me to it
105 2014-08-20 02:12:19 <copumpkin> except he called it bitcoin :/
106 2014-08-20 02:12:36 gonedrk has quit (Quit: Leaving)
107 2014-08-20 02:13:36 <jrick> the one and only Bitcoin software given to us by Satoshi himself on stone tablets
108 2014-08-20 02:14:43 chax has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
109 2014-08-20 02:15:04 <kanzure> wasn't stone tablets
110 2014-08-20 02:15:13 <copumpkin> the scrolls
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113 2014-08-20 02:15:41 <copumpkin> the scrolls of Satoshi, written in the first age of Satoshi by Satoshi Himself?
114 2014-08-20 02:15:51 <copumpkin> sorry
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119 2014-08-20 02:29:56 <E-Rage> is creating a bootstrap.dat really as easy as "cat blk?????.dat > bootstrap.dat"?
120 2014-08-20 02:30:55 <gmaxwell> E-Rage: almost, though that will contain orphans (and potenitally out of order blocks), there is a python script included with bitcoin-qt that will make a proper one.
121 2014-08-20 02:31:25 <E-Rage> ah, of course
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123 2014-08-20 02:32:55 <E-Rage> is this contrib/linearize/linearize.py?
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126 2014-08-20 02:33:38 <MattP__> LTC and BTC are connected. Everyone drop what you are doing, shut down sCrypt miners, and BUY LTC.
127 2014-08-20 02:33:41 <MattP__> And if you get out of the exchange for god sakes DO NOT SELL. Use a wallet on your PC!
128 2014-08-20 02:33:45 <MattP__> Spread the word, straight from the boys in the lab.
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209 2014-08-20 04:10:57 <BlueMatt> cfields: am I missing something? why do we need to touch dllimport ever?
210 2014-08-20 04:11:14 <BlueMatt> cfields: or two sets of dependancies???
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264 2014-08-20 05:51:20 <wumpus> ... what the fuck @ mailling list
265 2014-08-20 05:52:13 <wumpus> why does everyone so vehemently want to switch away from github all of a sudden?
266 2014-08-20 05:53:47 <petertodd> wumpus: because the people who know better aren't vehement about keeping github...
267 2014-08-20 05:53:58 <wumpus> I know what, let's host the server on Troy's server in his parent's basement
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270 2014-08-20 05:54:25 <wumpus> petertodd: what?
271 2014-08-20 05:54:31 <dsnrk> I like the post that wants bitcoin messages to be encrypted. "It is relatively cheap
272 2014-08-20 05:54:35 <petertodd> wumpus: remind him that a truly decentralized solution would use his parents basement and github simultaneously
273 2014-08-20 05:54:41 <wumpus> who knows what better?
274 2014-08-20 05:55:02 <wumpus> petertodd: git *IS* a decentralized solution
275 2014-08-20 05:55:21 <petertodd> wumpus: by "knows better" I mean with some git signatures github really can't do that much to harm us
276 2014-08-20 05:56:07 <wumpus> petertodd: it just makes no sense.. 'I don't want to rely on a centralized solution, so lets move to a centralized solution hosted my ourselves'
277 2014-08-20 05:56:29 <petertodd> wumpus: yeah, I trust github as a neutral arbitrator over anyone here
278 2014-08-20 05:57:32 <wumpus> everyone can run a mirror if they want
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280 2014-08-20 05:58:09 <petertodd> wumpus: yup, there exist scripts to clone pull-reqs and other metadata too
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353 2014-08-20 07:22:43 <wumpus> BlueMatt: you're creating technical debt by depending on a .h but not a .cpp, the non-messy way to do this would be th move the function that you need somewhere else
354 2014-08-20 07:22:46 <BlueMatt> wumpus: anywhoo, I'm not even convinced by the principal
355 2014-08-20 07:22:57 <BlueMatt> I can duplicate it into standalone.cpp
356 2014-08-20 07:23:09 <BlueMatt> it was that way originally, but I decided that was ugly code duplication
357 2014-08-20 07:23:23 <wumpus> even duplication is better in this case
358 2014-08-20 07:23:27 <BlueMatt> if y'all prefer that, however, its three more lines in script/standalone.cpp
359 2014-08-20 07:23:29 <wumpus> it's 3 lines!
360 2014-08-20 07:23:31 <BlueMatt> really?
361 2014-08-20 07:23:37 <wumpus> yes
362 2014-08-20 07:24:04 <BlueMatt> hmm, ok...I just have some strange inbred hatred of code duplication
363 2014-08-20 07:24:08 <wumpus> this should be a general rule: if you use the .h, you must link the .cpp
364 2014-08-20 07:24:45 <BlueMatt> well, I can go split core.cpp up as well...split it into objects and a bunch of functions around them
365 2014-08-20 07:24:54 <wumpus> that's fine too
366 2014-08-20 07:25:03 <BlueMatt> but short of huge code changes, its gonna have to include core.h and not build core.cpp
367 2014-08-20 07:25:11 <wumpus> but is it necessary in this pul?
368 2014-08-20 07:25:12 <BlueMatt> ehh...the point was to make minimal code changes
369 2014-08-20 07:25:38 <wumpus> just build core.cpp for now
370 2014-08-20 07:25:40 alexwaters has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
371 2014-08-20 07:25:49 <BlueMatt> one does not simply build core.cpp
372 2014-08-20 07:25:58 ThomasV has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
373 2014-08-20 07:26:14 <BlueMatt> (one builds all of bitcoin)
374 2014-08-20 07:26:31 <sipa> core hardly depends on all of bitcoin...
375 2014-08-20 07:26:45 <BlueMatt> you end up with large chunks of the bitcoin-y parts
376 2014-08-20 07:26:53 <sipa> such as?
377 2014-08-20 07:27:42 ionstorm has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
378 2014-08-20 07:27:55 <sipa> (not trying to be obtuse... knowing what it depends unnecessarily on is exactly what we need to improve the module boundaries)
379 2014-08-20 07:28:12 <sipa> and doing things like using the .h witjout the .cpp hides it
380 2014-08-20 07:28:28 <wumpus> yes it hides the problem and creates mine fields for future maintainers
381 2014-08-20 07:31:08 <BlueMatt> yea, let me go back and do it again
382 2014-08-20 07:31:17 <BlueMatt> I dont remember exactly but there were two or three other ones
383 2014-08-20 07:33:53 shesek has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
384 2014-08-20 07:34:05 <sipa> i understand that you want the library to be small, but at this point i care much more about having a clear dependency graph in the source code than a few MiB of shared library
385 2014-08-20 07:34:36 <sipa> i would understand the problem if you end up needing to depend on validation or wallet code
386 2014-08-20 07:36:04 Grouver has joined
387 2014-08-20 07:36:39 Belxjander has joined
388 2014-08-20 07:37:21 <sipa> as far as i can see, it would depend on util stuff
389 2014-08-20 07:37:32 <sipa> which is already in a separate library
390 2014-08-20 07:39:30 <wumpus> according to my info core.o depends on script.o uint256.o util.o
391 2014-08-20 07:39:44 <sipa> chainbaseparams/uint256/sync/random/version
392 2014-08-20 07:40:06 damethos has joined
393 2014-08-20 07:40:16 <wumpus> at least directly: http://www.hastebin.com/dotiyoqudu.md
394 2014-08-20 07:40:27 <sipa> so for now just build bitcoinscript.so from libbitcoin_script and libbitcoin_util
395 2014-08-20 07:42:07 <sipa> i'm (positively) surprised that script does not otherwise already depend on uint256...
396 2014-08-20 07:42:36 <sipa> since it's used in core data structures
397 2014-08-20 07:43:24 <BlueMatt> yea, you can get away with just adding chainbaseparams, util, uint256, version, core and a few methods I had been trying to avoid in scriptutils
398 2014-08-20 07:43:29 mkarrer has joined
399 2014-08-20 07:43:40 <BlueMatt> which is wayyy more than we want (or have right now)
400 2014-08-20 07:43:53 <sipa> yes it is way more than we want
401 2014-08-20 07:44:12 <wumpus> yes, it's more than we want, but can be addressed later
402 2014-08-20 07:44:19 lclc has joined
403 2014-08-20 07:44:20 <BlueMatt> mostly, whatever happens for an initial pull, in the longer term you cant not have the core header without pulling in all that stuff unless you do a very major refactor to pull out functions that are in-class right now
404 2014-08-20 07:44:31 <BlueMatt> which, really, I think is overkill to do for the script library at all
405 2014-08-20 07:44:45 <sipa> i don't think it's overkill at all
406 2014-08-20 07:45:06 <sipa> if we want to end up with nicely separated libraries that is what we'll have to do
407 2014-08-20 07:45:26 <BlueMatt> remove all logging stuff thats in core?
408 2014-08-20 07:45:44 <BlueMatt> I'm not sure that ever makes sense?
409 2014-08-20 07:46:05 <sipa> well if you don't want it in script, it makes perfect sense
410 2014-08-20 07:46:08 <BlueMatt> (I mean to be fair, I already have to throw in a LogLine function to make it compile, but its only for a bit of script, I dont want that to be worse)
411 2014-08-20 07:46:25 <BlueMatt> i dunno, this just seems like way overkill for something this simple
412 2014-08-20 07:46:49 <BlueMatt> especially limiting ourselves to not logging things in some parts of the code?
413 2014-08-20 07:46:49 <BlueMatt> eww
414 2014-08-20 07:47:52 <sipa> core shouldn't be doing any logging
415 2014-08-20 07:48:07 <sipa> it's a base datastructure with serialization module
416 2014-08-20 07:48:37 <BlueMatt> ok, and when we get to the point where we strip out even uint256 from script?
417 2014-08-20 07:48:51 <BlueMatt> you clearly cant have core without that, but there is no reason for it in script
418 2014-08-20 07:48:59 <sipa> oh, those ::print methods in corr
419 2014-08-20 07:49:04 <sipa> *core
420 2014-08-20 07:49:09 <BlueMatt> yea, thats the only logging in there atm
421 2014-08-20 07:49:19 <sipa> let's get rid of those on just have ToString() methods
422 2014-08-20 07:49:19 <BlueMatt> that could reasonably be moved to util or some special log class or so
423 2014-08-20 07:49:27 <BlueMatt> yea
424 2014-08-20 07:49:45 <wumpus> sipa: +1
425 2014-08-20 07:49:55 <BlueMatt> anyway, script needs like 5 functions from core, why should the whole thing be shipped?
426 2014-08-20 07:50:00 <wumpus> already did that for a few, but seems I missed those
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428 2014-08-20 07:50:37 <sipa> uint256 is harder... i guess the only way to actually get rid of that is by making the data structures in core use a minimal array-of-8-uint32s data type, and then have the uint256 module define a class that does arithmetic etc with it
429 2014-08-20 07:51:09 <BlueMatt> but why? its all so much bending over backwards to avoid compiling things
430 2014-08-20 07:53:12 <sipa> i don't want to end up with a bunch of random sets of ibject files in .a's that somehow work together, assuming this one does not use function Y from Z
431 2014-08-20 07:53:14 banghouse has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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433 2014-08-20 07:54:06 <sipa> yes i understand that this may feel like a step backwards to you, as you already did the work of avoiding a bunch of unnecessary object code in it
434 2014-08-20 07:54:13 <sipa> but please, not this way
435 2014-08-20 07:54:44 <BlueMatt> no, I agree with the idea, it just ends up with 10 fiels with core-forscript.cpp and core-alltheotherstuff.cpp
436 2014-08-20 07:54:47 <BlueMatt> and thats even worse
437 2014-08-20 07:55:21 <sipa> indisagree
438 2014-08-20 07:55:25 <sipa> *i disagree
439 2014-08-20 07:55:39 <sipa> core was intended to be pure datastructures and serialization
440 2014-08-20 07:55:44 <wumpus> all this is necessary anyway to make the dependencies between part of the program sane, not just for script library
441 2014-08-20 07:56:12 <sipa> the effort to make libbitcoinscript work shows us where it is failing thatnintention
442 2014-08-20 07:56:18 <BlueMatt> wumpus: which is neccessary? pulling uint256 out of core?
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444 2014-08-20 07:56:42 <wumpus> BlueMatt: well at least cutting down on the logging in data structures
445 2014-08-20 07:56:51 <BlueMatt> sipa: this sounds a lot like "we need to have perfect code organization" not "we need to have practical code organization"...
446 2014-08-20 07:57:05 <BlueMatt> wumpus: sure, yea, that makes sense
447 2014-08-20 07:57:18 <sipa> heh, i just want some code organization
448 2014-08-20 07:57:27 <sipa> nit a random bunch of .a files
449 2014-08-20 07:57:31 <BlueMatt> sipa: its infinitely better than it was a year ago :)
450 2014-08-20 07:57:38 <sipa> oh yes
451 2014-08-20 07:57:45 <BlueMatt> sipa: where do we have a bunch of random .a files?
452 2014-08-20 07:57:45 <wumpus> no, my practical requirement is *I don't want anything to depend on whether something is implemented in the .cpp or .h*, that's very practical
453 2014-08-20 07:58:10 <wumpus> we've been shifting code to the .cpp files for a long time
454 2014-08-20 07:58:19 mkarrer has joined
455 2014-08-20 07:58:19 <BlueMatt> yes, I'm well aware
456 2014-08-20 07:58:53 <wumpus> perfect code organization 'would be nice'
457 2014-08-20 07:59:00 Eiii has quit ()
458 2014-08-20 07:59:04 <BlueMatt> it no longer takes how many GB memory to build bitcoin?
459 2014-08-20 07:59:20 <sipa> aboyt uint256... it is tiny (34 KiB of executable code here), and admittedly moving it out of core will be nontrivial and complicate things
460 2014-08-20 07:59:23 <wumpus> BlueMatt: depends on the parallelism
461 2014-08-20 07:59:39 Guest18330 is now known as abrkn
462 2014-08-20 07:59:43 <sipa> but let's start with getting rid of the logging dependency in core
463 2014-08-20 07:59:45 <BlueMatt> wumpus: heh, well sure...but it used to build all of bitcoin for every file....headers.h anyone?
464 2014-08-20 07:59:53 <sipa> lol
465 2014-08-20 07:59:57 <wumpus> hehehe
466 2014-08-20 08:00:09 <sipa> it probably takes more memory now
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469 2014-08-20 08:00:15 <wumpus> indeed, getting rid of uint256 sounds like a lot less important
470 2014-08-20 08:00:21 donpillou has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
471 2014-08-20 08:00:29 <wumpus> at least it's self-contained
472 2014-08-20 08:00:57 <BlueMatt> yea, uint256 isnt a huge deal, but right now script depends on nothing, and adding core seems reasonable, because it uses that interface, so why not build it
473 2014-08-20 08:00:59 akstunt600 has joined
474 2014-08-20 08:01:04 ak_ has joined
475 2014-08-20 08:01:06 <wumpus> unlike depending on util, which is a grabbag of everything...
476 2014-08-20 08:01:11 <BlueMatt> but it also pulls in chainparams, and uint256
477 2014-08-20 08:01:19 <BlueMatt> why should script care about chainbaseparams?
478 2014-08-20 08:01:23 jsfsn has joined
479 2014-08-20 08:01:24 <BlueMatt> yea
480 2014-08-20 08:01:27 <wumpus> BlueMatt: through util
481 2014-08-20 08:01:34 <BlueMatt> oh?
482 2014-08-20 08:01:36 <wumpus> util cares about that, because of the data directory
483 2014-08-20 08:01:43 <BlueMatt> oops, yea, thoght that was core
484 2014-08-20 08:01:45 <wumpus> and possible some port number, not sure
485 2014-08-20 08:01:59 <wumpus> that's why I split basechainparams and chainparams
486 2014-08-20 08:02:03 Belxjander has quit (Quit: Exit())
487 2014-08-20 08:02:18 <BlueMatt> ok, so 1) move logs out of core, 2) build core
488 2014-08-20 08:02:21 <BlueMatt> easy enough
489 2014-08-20 08:02:41 <wumpus> yes
490 2014-08-20 08:02:47 <wumpus> let's nuke the Print functions
491 2014-08-20 08:02:57 <BlueMatt> not as bad as key being built right now, so I can live with core
492 2014-08-20 08:03:25 <sipa> key will be pretty hard to avoif...
493 2014-08-20 08:03:31 <sipa> or at least part of it
494 2014-08-20 08:03:40 <BlueMatt> yea, sadly
495 2014-08-20 08:03:51 <sipa> key can split in verify/other, like script itself
496 2014-08-20 08:03:54 <BlueMatt> can probably split it to avoid the dep on random, but I havent dig in too far
497 2014-08-20 08:03:56 <sipa> *can br
498 2014-08-20 08:04:03 <sipa> **can be
499 2014-08-20 08:04:04 <BlueMatt> yea
500 2014-08-20 08:04:18 <wumpus> huh, but why does core.o use FormatMoney?
501 2014-08-20 08:04:45 <BlueMatt> for a ToString
502 2014-08-20 08:04:48 <wumpus> cannot find it used in the source
503 2014-08-20 08:04:50 <wumpus> ohh ok
504 2014-08-20 08:04:56 <BlueMatt> CFeeRate::ToString()
505 2014-08-20 08:05:09 <sipa> cfeerate has no reason to be in corr
506 2014-08-20 08:05:14 <BlueMatt> yep
507 2014-08-20 08:05:20 <sipa> it's verification or wallrt stuff
508 2014-08-20 08:05:48 <sipa> wasn't it moved?
509 2014-08-20 08:05:50 tarantillo_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
510 2014-08-20 08:05:58 rubensayshi has joined
511 2014-08-20 08:06:00 <wumpus> ohh snap i'm looking at 0.9.3's source
512 2014-08-20 08:06:10 tarantillo_ has joined
513 2014-08-20 08:06:12 <sipa> haha
514 2014-08-20 08:06:18 t7 has joined
515 2014-08-20 08:06:24 <wumpus> (but master's object files)
516 2014-08-20 08:08:20 AndersAA has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
517 2014-08-20 08:14:57 psgs is now known as psgs|away
518 2014-08-20 08:16:13 gonedrk has joined
519 2014-08-20 08:16:15 super3 has quit (Quit: super3)
520 2014-08-20 08:17:25 JackH has joined
521 2014-08-20 08:17:29 <wumpus> what are some people doing... https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/4734
522 2014-08-20 08:19:30 s0le_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
523 2014-08-20 08:19:47 Applicat_ has joined
524 2014-08-20 08:19:57 RoboTeddy has joined
525 2014-08-20 08:20:38 Application has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
526 2014-08-20 08:21:21 bedeho has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
527 2014-08-20 08:23:17 <dsnrk> wumpus: you don't want to know :<
528 2014-08-20 08:23:27 <wumpus> I'm deeply scared
529 2014-08-20 08:23:52 <dsnrk> some of the things users do with private keys is just completely insane.
530 2014-08-20 08:24:19 Belxjander has joined
531 2014-08-20 08:24:21 Applicat_ has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
532 2014-08-20 08:24:23 RoboTeddy has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
533 2014-08-20 08:24:36 <dsnrk> lots of users use brainwallet.org or bitaddress.org to make "paper wallets" (of dubious security)
534 2014-08-20 08:25:14 <dsnrk> reddit users are obsessed with bip38 private key encryption, and think that wallets supporting spending from bip38 encrypted privkeys protects them from malware
535 2014-08-20 08:26:02 <dsnrk> using shit like http://rushwallet.com/ which stores the private key in the URL
536 2014-08-20 08:26:43 <dsnrk> importing the same private key into multiple wallets, using raw transactions and blasting their money away, you name it.
537 2014-08-20 08:27:01 graingert has joined
538 2014-08-20 08:27:11 <dsnrk> somebody lost 28BTC yesterday due to a decimal point issue in a raw transaction.
539 2014-08-20 08:27:24 graingert is now known as Guest63602
540 2014-08-20 08:27:29 torsthaldo has joined
541 2014-08-20 08:27:38 <sipa> best one yet: a site creating p2sh addresses with overly long redeemscripts
542 2014-08-20 08:28:20 <dsnrk> sure that's not counterparty? they now spam invalid multisig scripts. 1 of 2 with the second pubkey stuffed with their data.
543 2014-08-20 08:28:27 Guest63602 has quit (Client Quit)
544 2014-08-20 08:28:44 graingert_ has joined
545 2014-08-20 08:28:53 <sipa> bah
546 2014-08-20 08:29:07 <sipa> i thought they swutched to opreturn
547 2014-08-20 08:29:26 <dsnrk> nah.
548 2014-08-20 08:29:29 <dsnrk> 1 033e48aba7e933ef2f0ad715309b7447ea45711cf8cbca837b70f18269df72baee 1c434e5452505254590000000000215694ab21712d000000000000000100000000 2 OP_CHECKMULTISIG
549 2014-08-20 08:29:50 Application has joined
550 2014-08-20 08:30:21 <dsnrk> 0x34e545250525459 == CNTRPRTY
551 2014-08-20 08:30:30 CryptoBuck has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
552 2014-08-20 08:30:49 <dsnrk> Luke-Jr: do you nuke these on Eligius? if not, you shold be ^
553 2014-08-20 08:30:59 CryptoBuck has joined
554 2014-08-20 08:37:53 <dsnrk> sipa: they might have and I just saw an old transaction, I'm not sure.
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566 2014-08-20 09:01:24 <wumpus> @BlueMatt https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/4735
567 2014-08-20 09:01:43 <BlueMatt> wumpus: that doesnt do it :(
568 2014-08-20 09:01:50 <wumpus> doesn't do what?
569 2014-08-20 09:02:00 <BlueMatt> doesnt solve the dependancy issue
570 2014-08-20 09:02:05 <wumpus> why not?
571 2014-08-20 09:02:27 <wumpus> what other dependency needs to go?
572 2014-08-20 09:02:30 <BlueMatt> uint256 still needs HexDigit
573 2014-08-20 09:02:39 <BlueMatt> also, duplicating FormatMoney...ehh
574 2014-08-20 09:03:02 <wumpus> BlueMatt: the same formatting is used in another Core::ToString() function
575 2014-08-20 09:03:04 <BlueMatt> better than duplicaint the print, though
576 2014-08-20 09:03:10 <BlueMatt> oh? missed that
577 2014-08-20 09:03:20 <wumpus> return strprintf("CTxOut(nValue=%d.%08d, scriptPubKey=%s)", nValue / COIN, nValue % COIN, scriptPubKey.ToString().substr(0,30));
578 2014-08-20 09:03:26 <wumpus> just copied that
579 2014-08-20 09:03:32 <wumpus> come on it's one line ...
580 2014-08-20 09:03:38 <BlueMatt> sure, sure
581 2014-08-20 09:03:39 <wumpus> don't be so obsessed about code duplication
582 2014-08-20 09:04:22 <wumpus> but yes the hexdigit is a good point, it shouldn't need to pull in util
583 2014-08-20 09:05:04 <wumpus> BlueMatt: another maybe better option would be to just display satoshis, it's only for debugging anyway
584 2014-08-20 09:05:15 <BlueMatt> but, yea, I had already done these things :)
585 2014-08-20 09:05:32 <BlueMatt> wumpus: meh, people do read debug.og
586 2014-08-20 09:05:35 <BlueMatt> best to be readable
587 2014-08-20 09:05:52 <wumpus> but you're trying to do it all in one change-the world pull
588 2014-08-20 09:06:04 <wumpus> I prefer to do these kind of things separately
589 2014-08-20 09:06:11 <BlueMatt> this is why they werent there :)
590 2014-08-20 09:08:03 <wumpus> so, where to move HexDigit() ?
591 2014-08-20 09:08:22 <BlueMatt> I was looking at using ParseHex
592 2014-08-20 09:08:29 <wumpus> (and possibly the other hex-related functions)
593 2014-08-20 09:08:44 <BlueMatt> its nearly the same, problem is uint256(ParseHex(string)) results in an exception if the hex is wrong
594 2014-08-20 09:08:48 <BlueMatt> instead of eating it and guessing
595 2014-08-20 09:08:56 <wumpus> ParseHex is in util.cpp too
596 2014-08-20 09:09:24 <BlueMatt> yes, but callers can replace uint256 thing; thing.ReadHex(); with uint256 thing(ParseHex())
597 2014-08-20 09:09:27 <wumpus> but yes, that may be an (unrelated) improvement
598 2014-08-20 09:09:33 <BlueMatt> if it were the same semantics
599 2014-08-20 09:10:13 <wumpus> ParseHex doesn't throw an exception?
600 2014-08-20 09:10:20 <BlueMatt> uint256(vector) may
601 2014-08-20 09:10:27 roconnor has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
602 2014-08-20 09:11:00 <wumpus> right
603 2014-08-20 09:11:09 melvster has joined
604 2014-08-20 09:11:34 <wumpus> so it would have to be checked if that is a problem on a case-by-case basis
605 2014-08-20 09:11:48 <BlueMatt> yea
606 2014-08-20 09:12:08 <BlueMatt> or you could tweak uint256(vector) to never throw and guess like hex used to
607 2014-08-20 09:12:08 <wumpus> I'd say being explicit about errors is better than swallowing them, but we don't want to introduce fatal exceptions in consensus code
608 2014-08-20 09:12:14 <BlueMatt> havent looked at what else that would effect, though
609 2014-08-20 09:12:19 <BlueMatt> yep
610 2014-08-20 09:12:37 <wumpus> maybe add a special constructor to uint256 that swallows a vector without error? :P
611 2014-08-20 09:12:44 <BlueMatt> heh, could....
612 2014-08-20 09:12:55 <wumpus> JustTakeThisDamnVector()
613 2014-08-20 09:13:04 <BlueMatt> heh
614 2014-08-20 09:13:37 <wumpus> (and do something creepy and undefined)... no, the better solution would be to check SetHex usages
615 2014-08-20 09:13:43 <BlueMatt> yes
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617 2014-08-20 09:13:54 <sipa> or just get ridnof the guessing behaviour?
618 2014-08-20 09:13:54 <BlueMatt> i was just stating it as an alternative in tricky cases
619 2014-08-20 09:15:02 <wumpus> sipa: that's what we're discussing
620 2014-08-20 09:15:22 <wumpus> SetHex is used in core_read.cpp and only RPC code apart from that
621 2014-08-20 09:16:00 <wumpus> in RPC code it's fine to throw an exception on invalid data, not sure about core_read
622 2014-08-20 09:16:32 <wumpus> oh, the GUI uses SetHex too in two places
623 2014-08-20 09:17:11 <wumpus> but never on user input
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625 2014-08-20 09:20:14 <wumpus> uint256::GetHex / ToString avoids using the util.cpp hex functions in an interesting way
626 2014-08-20 09:20:24 <wumpus> "call strprintf for every byte" hmm
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629 2014-08-20 09:22:49 <wumpus> well it works, it's not the most optimal way, doing formatting and a string concatenation for every byte, then again I suppose it's absolutely not performance critical
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634 2014-08-20 09:26:43 <kdomanski> is building with ccache safe?
635 2014-08-20 09:27:48 bmcgee has quit (Client Quit)
636 2014-08-20 09:28:26 Belkaar has joined
637 2014-08-20 09:28:42 <wumpus> so anyhow - if we want to keep hex formatting/parsing support in uint256 we need to split the hex functions from util, if not there will be quite some impact on the code
638 2014-08-20 09:32:01 Namworld has quit ()
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640 2014-08-20 09:33:52 <wumpus> kdomanski: cfields uses it all the time IIRC
641 2014-08-20 09:34:01 ThomasV has joined
642 2014-08-20 09:36:13 <sipa> i'm fine with removing parsing/formatting from uint256
643 2014-08-20 09:36:55 AtashiCon has joined
644 2014-08-20 09:37:08 <wumpus> then again, do we want it gone from all core data structures? almost all of our classes have ToString
645 2014-08-20 09:37:58 <wumpus> in principle it would be better to separate debug formatting from the data structures themselves, but I don't think it's very practical to change that now
646 2014-08-20 09:38:31 <michagogo> kdomanski: IIRC ccache is designed such that if there's ever any doubt, any possible chance of it not compiling exactly the same way, it recompiles it for real
647 2014-08-20 09:38:32 <wumpus> and uint256::GetHex and ToString are used all over the place, though mostly in RPC code
648 2014-08-20 09:39:16 <wumpus> and in debug logging in other places such as the wallet
649 2014-08-20 09:40:13 <wumpus> (and in main, for logging invs, block hashes, and such)
650 2014-08-20 09:40:20 <kdomanski> michagogo: I'm asking because in the past I used to have some linking issues with ccache enabled
651 2014-08-20 09:40:51 <wumpus> I'd say keep ToString and GetHex ... parsing usage the other hand is much more limited
652 2014-08-20 09:41:11 <sipa> ok
653 2014-08-20 09:41:13 [HACKINGLINKEDIN has joined
654 2014-08-20 09:42:01 <wumpus> ok...
655 2014-08-20 09:42:46 llllllllll has joined
656 2014-08-20 09:42:54 <wumpus> anyhow, so lets see if we can get rid of SetHex usage
657 2014-08-20 09:44:11 <wumpus> UGH, the constructor for base_uint<BITS> uses SetHex as well
658 2014-08-20 09:44:24 <wumpus> *a constructor
659 2014-08-20 09:44:37 <sipa> right... and that is pretty convenient
660 2014-08-20 09:44:40 <wumpus> phew
661 2014-08-20 09:44:48 <wumpus> yes, I suppose that's used in the tests etc
662 2014-08-20 09:45:43 <wumpus> all of those usages would have to be replaced with uint256(ParseHex("..."))
663 2014-08-20 09:45:59 <sipa> that's not too bad, as you know they will never fail
664 2014-08-20 09:46:43 <sipa> or just split off hex encode/decode from util...
665 2014-08-20 09:46:59 <wumpus> I'd prefer that
666 2014-08-20 09:47:00 ak_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
667 2014-08-20 09:47:13 Zarutian has joined
668 2014-08-20 09:47:17 <wumpus> hex encode/decode is base functionality that's just very convenient to have
669 2014-08-20 09:47:41 ak_ has joined
670 2014-08-20 09:48:01 <wumpus> and it's not like it takes huge amounts of code
671 2014-08-20 09:48:08 wallet42 has joined
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673 2014-08-20 09:50:01 <wumpus> hmm also uint256("0x000000000019d6689c085ae165831e934ff763ae46a2a6c172b3f1b60a8ce26f") this is different from what ParseHex expects, it can't cope with the 0x
674 2014-08-20 09:52:45 jtimon has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
675 2014-08-20 09:53:11 <wumpus> the more general separation would be 'dependency and stateless utils' (hex utils, but also SanitizeString, Base64) and 'utils very strongly bound to bitcoind' (such as DataDir, ParseParameters, logging)
676 2014-08-20 09:53:52 banghouse has joined
677 2014-08-20 09:53:53 <sipa> that seems very reasonable
678 2014-08-20 09:54:56 <sipa> the former can go in utils, the latter in server or common.a
679 2014-08-20 09:55:44 DougieBot5000 has quit (Quit: Leaving)
680 2014-08-20 09:56:29 <dsnrk> http://blog.chain.com/post/95226112991/chain-research-0-confirmation-transactions
681 2014-08-20 09:56:32 <dsnrk> ^ an article the developers are probably going to have to dispel at some point. tl;dr is that they are crawling mainnet nodes and continually dumping their memory pool in order to try and make 0conf transactions "safe".
682 2014-08-20 09:56:51 <wumpus> sounds fair
683 2014-08-20 09:57:28 <wumpus> the former mostly have to do with encoding, parsing, decoding data in various representations
684 2014-08-20 09:57:54 donpillou has joined
685 2014-08-20 09:58:51 banghouse has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
686 2014-08-20 09:59:53 <wumpus> Format/ParseMoney would be a case of doubt
687 2014-08-20 10:00:17 kdomanski has quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
688 2014-08-20 10:00:36 <wumpus> it's very bitcoin specific, but not bound to bitcoind's client/server infrastructure
689 2014-08-20 10:01:22 Guest8920 has joined
690 2014-08-20 10:02:29 <wumpus> "To provide this data in real time, Chain operates a cluster of processes which crawl every node in the bitcoin network. Using our map of nodes, we query each node on an interval to read the unconfirmed transactions from the memory pool." bleh
691 2014-08-20 10:05:07 <dsnrk> I'm going to see if I can set up a mainnet node to capture their scanner.
692 2014-08-20 10:05:09 <wumpus> so instead of relying on nodes to propagate their transactions, they try to actively pull/poll for them
693 2014-08-20 10:06:18 <dsnrk> polling the memory pool is going to pretty much DOS the network if lots of people try it.
694 2014-08-20 10:07:14 <dsnrk> you can see where they're going with it, their next move is going to be a "0conf safe API".
695 2014-08-20 10:07:55 <wumpus> well I'm not that afraid of this causing a DoS, but it seems a futile exercise
696 2014-08-20 10:09:00 <dsnrk> have you seen how noisy mainnet is recently? I gave up on ipv4 because a good portion of peers were sniffers and not relaying anything to me.
697 2014-08-20 10:10:10 <dsnrk> they're easy to notice because they have massive sent traffic in getpeerinfo.
698 2014-08-20 10:10:21 <wumpus> this way they can detect if node A and node B's mempool conflict, but they could also know that by just being connected to A and B and see that they relay conflicting transactions
699 2014-08-20 10:10:38 wallet42 has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
700 2014-08-20 10:11:31 <wumpus> maybe it's time for misbehavior() flagging for nodes that are too nosy
701 2014-08-20 10:11:38 <dsnrk> most of my peers have around 0.9MB sent since last restart, once has 9.8MB sent. wonder what they're doing.
702 2014-08-20 10:12:20 <wumpus> not just requesting blocks?
703 2014-08-20 10:12:45 <dsnrk> no, they're sniffer peers. they request *everything* and provide no inventory back, ever.
704 2014-08-20 10:13:18 <dsnrk> they pong and nothing else.
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719 2014-08-20 10:17:29 <dsnrk> wumpus: most of their data seems to be totally wrong, so, yeah don't have the best faith in them at all.
720 2014-08-20 10:19:11 [HACKINGLINKEDIN has joined
721 2014-08-20 10:20:52 <wumpus> if we abandon the "stuff it all in one utility module" approach we could create a src/codecs/ directory with a library that provides hex, base32, base64 and such modules, separately - though it may be overkill for the minimal amount of code involved
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725 2014-08-20 10:21:34 <wumpus> dsnrk: wll it doesn't prevent double spending in the general case
726 2014-08-20 10:21:50 <dsnrk> of course not, it's just spammy and a waste of time.
727 2014-08-20 10:21:58 oujh has joined
728 2014-08-20 10:22:12 <wumpus> although assuming 'honest' miners it would help reduce the risk a bit
729 2014-08-20 10:22:48 <wumpus> it has a similar rationale to the 'relay double spends' code had that was merged for a while in bitcoin core
730 2014-08-20 10:23:01 * dsnrk glances ar ghash.io double spending against dice sites
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734 2014-08-20 10:27:45 <wumpus> no one cares about dice sites
735 2014-08-20 10:28:03 <dsnrk> you don't see the problem with that?
736 2014-08-20 10:28:51 <wumpus> all of these services are aimed at merchants doing point-of-sale transactions
737 2014-08-20 10:31:54 <dsnrk> so? it's been shown people are happy to do it.
738 2014-08-20 10:35:23 <wumpus> happy to do what? I just mean that it's less ikely that a mining pool would conspire against individual merchants than against some gambling service that is already regarded as an abuse of the block chain
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744 2014-08-20 10:42:02 <wumpus> it's hard to blame people for collecting double-spend information for risk-analysis purposes, of course there is a fair chance they may still assess the risks wrongly
745 2014-08-20 10:42:11 kjj has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
746 2014-08-20 10:43:52 <petertodd> sipa: counterparty was going to switch to opreturn, but the 80->40 byte change screwed them over
747 2014-08-20 10:44:55 kjj has joined
748 2014-08-20 10:45:17 <petertodd> sipa: next step for them (and others) is to switch to flexible encodings that can handle anything, and coerce their data into valid-looking pubkeys
749 2014-08-20 10:46:04 <sipa> bah
750 2014-08-20 10:46:05 belcher has joined
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755 2014-08-20 10:46:41 <petertodd> sipa: people are going to continue using a useful feature, given you can't easily block it
756 2014-08-20 10:46:58 <dsnrk> why do people think it's alright to shit in our block chain :<
757 2014-08-20 10:47:50 <wumpus> why is 40 bytes not enough, then?
758 2014-08-20 10:47:50 <sipa> petertodd: imho it's less useful than they think; but arguing with you about this will lead nowhere
759 2014-08-20 10:47:51 <petertodd> dsnrk: it's not a matter of alright, it's a matter of "it works" and "its way more secure than the alternatives" - this is a decentralized sytem, deal with it
760 2014-08-20 10:48:22 <dsnrk> petertodd: I don't agree with you, but I don't it's pointless to argue with you about it.
761 2014-08-20 10:48:28 <petertodd> wumpus: proof-of-publication != timestamping
762 2014-08-20 10:48:28 <dsnrk> *think it's
763 2014-08-20 10:48:37 <wumpus> back when we limited that there were no remotely valid arguments why 40 wouldn't be enough
764 2014-08-20 10:48:37 kdomanski has joined
765 2014-08-20 10:48:52 <petertodd> wumpus: well, you weren't listening
766 2014-08-20 10:49:17 <petertodd> wumpus: and heck, see my recent post on stealth addresses
767 2014-08-20 10:49:26 <sipa> we didn't want people to think that because opreturn existed, that stuffing data in transactions was alright
768 2014-08-20 10:49:42 <sipa> their purpose is putting a hash or something similar sized on a transaction
769 2014-08-20 10:49:55 <petertodd> like I said, proof-of-publication != timestamping
770 2014-08-20 10:49:59 <wumpus> 40 is enough for a 256-bit hash and a 8-byte identifier
771 2014-08-20 10:50:09 <wumpus> what else do you want to put in there?
772 2014-08-20 10:50:12 <sipa> i am well aware of the difference, but that doesn't make it alright
773 2014-08-20 10:51:07 <sipa> if people want to put data in thr blockchain for other purposes, we can't stop them, but at least let's make it obvious that this is not intended purpose
774 2014-08-20 10:51:11 <wumpus> anyhow it's possible to raise the limit if that really is necessary
775 2014-08-20 10:51:20 <wumpus> but I'm not convinced
776 2014-08-20 10:51:32 <sipa> it will never be enough for people who want it for publication
777 2014-08-20 10:51:40 <petertodd> wumpus: there isn't a limit, there's a cost per byte
778 2014-08-20 10:51:55 Zarutian has quit (Quit: Zarutian)
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780 2014-08-20 10:52:22 <petertodd> e.g. see my blockpop library that can happily stuff all the data you could ever want, at the cheapest possible price, in a nice forwards compatible way to anything short of drasticly changing the scripting language
781 2014-08-20 10:52:27 <wumpus> I mean the limit of 40
782 2014-08-20 10:52:56 <wumpus> ok, I'm done arguing in that case
783 2014-08-20 10:53:02 aquarat has joined
784 2014-08-20 10:54:14 <wumpus> it's like "I've made this device for throwing all the trash in the sea that you could ever want, at the cheapest possible price"
785 2014-08-20 10:55:06 <petertodd> wumpus: given this is potentially a long-term economic flaw with bitcoin, it's better that we understand it sooner rather than later and take it into account in future designs, e.g. ensuring that UTXO commitments expire out old UTXO's
786 2014-08-20 10:55:38 go1111111 has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
787 2014-08-20 10:55:38 <sipa> yup, it's an economic flaw
788 2014-08-20 10:56:17 <petertodd> sipa: or, potentially an economic gain if the end result is more diverse things to pay for hashing power - jury is still out there
789 2014-08-20 10:56:59 <sipa> i'm sure the future will bring some solution - even if that means replacing bitcoin with something else
790 2014-08-20 10:58:03 <petertodd> indeed, and the more people understand it now rather than sweep it under the rug with social appeals, the more man hours of brain time will be applied to coming up with a solution
791 2014-08-20 10:58:50 <sipa> wasting blockchain space now, or encouraging it will not change anyone's insight
792 2014-08-20 10:59:32 <petertodd> the actual % involved remains consistently tiny, and insight often comes from people not centrally involved in the process
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795 2014-08-20 11:01:48 <wumpus> I'm not that concerned with blockchain space
796 2014-08-20 11:02:06 <wumpus> but cluttering the utxo set is worse
797 2014-08-20 11:02:23 <Luke-Jr> proof-of-publication is nonsense and does not exist. and we can easily block this spam.
798 2014-08-20 11:03:01 [LINKEDINLOGSRZA has joined
799 2014-08-20 11:03:18 <petertodd> wumpus: indeed, which is why I think we should keep the utxo set a fixed size, expire old utxos, and use txo commitments to let people spend them if they really need too
800 2014-08-20 11:03:22 wallet42 has joined
801 2014-08-20 11:03:29 <wumpus> ...that's why OP_RETURN was a better alternative, and coming up with a good limit for that is important
802 2014-08-20 11:03:48 clem has joined
803 2014-08-20 11:03:58 <kdomanski> how about enforcing a bigger fee for transactions containing OP_RETURN?
804 2014-08-20 11:04:20 <petertodd> wumpus: fwiw my blockpop library can just as easily publish data in scriptSigs
805 2014-08-20 11:04:24 <dsnrk> that'll just mean people don't use it at all, like they are now.
806 2014-08-20 11:04:26 <sipa> you can't enforce a bigger fee, except by a concensus rule that makes it expensive
807 2014-08-20 11:04:55 <sipa> ... like making blocks that increase the utxo set too much expensive
808 2014-08-20 11:05:06 <wumpus> petertodd: but in that case it gets stored in the utxo set, so OP_RETURN is preferable
809 2014-08-20 11:05:13 <petertodd> Luke-Jr: have you read my disentangling paper?
810 2014-08-20 11:05:30 <petertodd> wumpus: no, that works by creating a P2SH output, then spending it, keeping the utxo set fixed in size
811 2014-08-20 11:05:38 <wumpus> expiring utxos is crazy, people would lose their coins after a while?
812 2014-08-20 11:06:04 <kdomanski> sipa: that's what I was thinking of
813 2014-08-20 11:06:14 <petertodd> wumpus: no, there would be a "fast-path" where recent utxo's are spent directly, and older "shelved" ones can be spent by proving they are unspent with a txo commitment proof
814 2014-08-20 11:06:21 <Luke-Jr> petertodd: if you can prove other people knew how to interpret your spam, then it can be filtered
815 2014-08-20 11:06:46 <wumpus> petertodd: ok that makes more sense
816 2014-08-20 11:06:48 <petertodd> Luke-Jr: ah, good answer, and my counteranswer to that is to use timelock crypto
817 2014-08-20 11:07:37 <Luke-Jr> petertodd: then you just force miners to delay mining anything for some time period
818 2014-08-20 11:07:49 ThomasV has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
819 2014-08-20 11:07:52 <sipa> "just"
820 2014-08-20 11:07:58 <petertodd> Luke-Jr: ^
821 2014-08-20 11:08:09 <Luke-Jr> besides, nobody is going to hold on to EVERY output long enough to check later if it was timelocked crypto
822 2014-08-20 11:08:18 <Luke-Jr> and if you can identify which ones are upfront⦠;)
823 2014-08-20 11:09:20 <Luke-Jr> (the existence of exceptions who might be willing to do this, does not prove "publication" anymore)
824 2014-08-20 11:09:24 hdbuck has joined
825 2014-08-20 11:09:49 <petertodd> Luke-Jr: well, since timelock crypto breaking is a decentralized problem, the answer to that can very well be yes; equally you can use that to make miners blacklist some % of transactions, and make the blacklisted tx categories overlap for the myriad uses of PoP
826 2014-08-20 11:14:15 <petertodd> s/decentralized problem/parallelizable problem/
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840 2014-08-20 11:34:33 <wumpus> shouldn't COIN and CENT be .. somewhere else than util.h?
841 2014-08-20 11:34:59 xenog has joined
842 2014-08-20 11:35:37 <wumpus> I suppose core.h would make sense, as MAX_MONEY is there too
843 2014-08-20 11:36:45 <sipa> given the cmoney/camount/... type that has a patch
844 2014-08-20 11:36:56 <sipa> i'd say that those constants belong in the same place
845 2014-08-20 11:37:03 <sipa> and core would end up depending on it
846 2014-08-20 11:37:03 Informerop has joined
847 2014-08-20 11:37:18 <wumpus> but core.h depends on it anyway
848 2014-08-20 11:37:21 <wumpus> right...
849 2014-08-20 11:37:23 <sipa> the money formatting functiins can then be in the more bitcoin-related util library?
850 2014-08-20 11:38:07 <wumpus> I suppose, if there is to be another util
851 2014-08-20 11:38:13 <wumpus> the camount change cannot be merged yet, it conflicts with qt
852 2014-08-20 11:38:14 elichai2 has joined
853 2014-08-20 11:38:40 <sipa> i know
854 2014-08-20 11:38:43 <elichai2> petertodd, here?
855 2014-08-20 11:39:07 <sipa> but just philosophically, i'd say the money constants should ve in core, until they can be moved to money
856 2014-08-20 11:39:10 <elichai2> does someone here succeed to use petter todd tool https://github.com/petertodd/replace-by-fee-tools#double-spend ?
857 2014-08-20 11:39:27 <wumpus> right - they belong in core more than they belong in util
858 2014-08-20 11:39:36 <wumpus> if there is a money.h at some point, they belong there
859 2014-08-20 11:39:43 <petertodd> elichai2: yup
860 2014-08-20 11:39:57 <petertodd> elichai2: I've had very good success with that in the past
861 2014-08-20 11:40:01 <sipa> wumpus: agree
862 2014-08-20 11:40:14 ThomasV has joined
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864 2014-08-20 11:40:24 <wumpus> (and probably parsemoney/formatmoney as well ...)
865 2014-08-20 11:40:37 <elichai2> petertodd, i just want to know first that i'm understanding it right, it will work on live net, right? and what i need to install to get it work?
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867 2014-08-20 11:40:59 <petertodd> elichai2: you should just be able to run it on any ubuntu system with a bitcoind running
868 2014-08-20 11:41:12 <petertodd> elichai2: does work on livenet
869 2014-08-20 11:41:22 <petertodd> elichai2: on, sorry, I mean, a replace-by-fee patched bitcoind
870 2014-08-20 11:41:34 <elichai2> ohh, so i must patch it first?
871 2014-08-20 11:41:39 <wumpus> maybe I should just take over maaku's pull
872 2014-08-20 11:41:44 <petertodd> elichai2: yeah, the README says where to get it
873 2014-08-20 11:41:58 <elichai2> and my client will still be safe? (your patch don't have any security flaws right? :P)
874 2014-08-20 11:42:02 <sipa> wumpus: i prefer those in some util library... the hex ones for uint256 are an exceptiob for convenience, but imho core (and what it depends on) should be purely data structures and serialization; formatting and parsing is just for human interaction
875 2014-08-20 11:42:33 <petertodd> elichai2: as far as I know
876 2014-08-20 11:42:35 <elichai2> ok, thanks (i just had some errors trying to run it so i wanted to know why, thanks)
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878 2014-08-20 11:43:09 <wumpus> sipa: agreed, but at a certain point you end up with lots of very small compilation units, ie money.h, money_utils.h, money_utils.cpp, ...
879 2014-08-20 11:43:20 <elichai2> petertodd, last thing :) the patch support the newest core release right? (it's just saying 0.9.1)
880 2014-08-20 11:43:28 <wumpus> sipa: not necessarily a problem of course, it's better than the other way around
881 2014-08-20 11:43:56 <elichai2> (and bitcoin core has 0.9.2.1 already)
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883 2014-08-20 11:45:10 <wumpus> CNode still has a significant amount of implementation in the header file
884 2014-08-20 11:45:10 <sipa> wumpus: well, i think evebtually the source tree has to be split up... a core data structure part (core, money, script, uint256), and several subsystems on top
885 2014-08-20 11:45:18 <sipa> cnode must go away
886 2014-08-20 11:45:24 <petertodd> elichai2: oh, yeah, good point, I forget what the differences between 0.9.1 and 0.9.2.1 is; IIRC 0.9.2 was just to issue a recompile with the openssl bug fixed, which you don't need to worry about as you'll be compiling locally
887 2014-08-20 11:45:31 jsfsn has quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
888 2014-08-20 11:45:44 <wumpus> it's even calling LogPrint() from the header
889 2014-08-20 11:45:49 <wumpus> sipa: go away completely?
890 2014-08-20 11:45:57 <elichai2> petertodd, ok, thanks
891 2014-08-20 11:46:05 <sipa> wumpus: ok that's an exaggeration
892 2014-08-20 11:46:21 <sipa> wumpus: butnit holds tona of data structures that are only modified by main
893 2014-08-20 11:46:29 <sipa> but it holds tons of
894 2014-08-20 11:46:37 <sipa> and should be split off
895 2014-08-20 11:47:06 <sipa> cnode should just be the network buffers and maybe some timing statistics
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898 2014-08-20 11:49:06 <petertodd> sipa: and main.cpp has two different levels of consensus critical code remember, stuff like AcceptBlock(), and the less critical networking code
899 2014-08-20 11:49:24 <sipa> petertodd: absolutely
900 2014-08-20 11:49:25 <elichai2> petertodd, there is a way to just install the patch or i need to recompile the client with your code?
901 2014-08-20 11:49:35 <sipa> itnhas validation logic and network interaction logoc
902 2014-08-20 11:49:35 <petertodd> elichai2: you have to recompile
903 2014-08-20 11:49:39 <elichai2> petertodd, thx
904 2014-08-20 11:50:29 <sipa> net and main have a very odd split point
905 2014-08-20 11:50:31 <elichai2> petertodd, (and then i can just keep using it, there is no reason to go back to the orginal 0.9.2.1)
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907 2014-08-20 11:51:17 <petertodd> elichai2: well, I'd recommend you double check the diff between 0.9.1 and 0.9.2.1 and see if I'm missing something; but it's probably fine
908 2014-08-20 11:51:30 <elichai2> ok i will.
909 2014-08-20 11:51:38 <petertodd> elichai2: trust, but verify :)
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915 2014-08-20 12:02:54 <kdomanski> petertodd: "In God we trust. All others we monitor." -- NSA
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917 2014-08-20 12:05:09 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: Can you elaborate on how sipa's address index is buggy?
918 2014-08-20 12:06:40 <btcdrak> kdomanski: only because they havent found a way to tap God yet.
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923 2014-08-20 12:09:59 <kdomanski> btcdrak: now I understand all the fuss about finding Higgs' Boson
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929 2014-08-20 12:18:41 <Luke-Jr> jcorgan: sipa: even with the addrindex, there's still no way to quickly identify which transaction(s) spend the outputs, is there?
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980 2014-08-20 13:21:32 <jgarzik> Luke-Jr, no
981 2014-08-20 13:21:48 <jgarzik> that would be yet another index
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998 2014-08-20 13:34:38 <gmaxwell> Luke-Jr: I'm not sureâ I know that there are missing transactions, I'm not sure why. (e.g. did it mishandle a reorg, or was there something about the transaction)
999 2014-08-20 13:35:04 <Luke-Jr> hm
1000 2014-08-20 13:35:53 <gmaxwell> there must be a large amount missing, because I've noticed it twice without really looking for it though.
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1014 2014-08-20 14:03:33 <sipa> Luke-Jr: with addrindex that is reasonably efficient, as you can search for the output script being spent
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1018 2014-08-20 14:09:30 <Luke-Jr> sipa: oh, so the sPK index is both the tx with the sPK and also the tx spending it?
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1020 2014-08-20 14:09:59 <Luke-Jr> that seems.. slightly unexpected.. but usable I guess
1021 2014-08-20 14:10:00 <sipa> yes
1022 2014-08-20 14:10:22 * Luke-Jr ponders whether to continue with his 2 GB independent index or try to debug sipa's
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1119 2014-08-20 16:11:26 <dsnrk> ;;seen amantonop
1120 2014-08-20 16:11:26 <gribble> amantonop was last seen in #bitcoin-dev 27 weeks, 1 day, 0 hours, 27 minutes, and 1 second ago: <amantonop> skype:aantonop
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1153 2014-08-20 16:45:48 <kdomanski> sipa: it works, https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/4737
1154 2014-08-20 16:47:12 <cfields> wumpus: looks like i got travis hooked up. Testing today.
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1164 2014-08-20 16:55:17 <wumpus> cfields: woohoo!!!
1165 2014-08-20 16:55:30 <sipa> kdomanski: woohoo!!!
1166 2014-08-20 16:55:51 <cfields> sipa: woohoo!!!
1167 2014-08-20 16:55:52 <sipa> kdomanski: one question; did you see any evidence for nSerSize being used for anything at all?
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1170 2014-08-20 17:00:30 <gmaxwell> I boggle that that made the code larger though!
1171 2014-08-20 17:01:33 <sipa> kdomanski: oh yes, you use it for GetSerializeSize's return value; i wonder whether you couldn't use SizeComputer instead, and get rid of SerializeOp's return value
1172 2014-08-20 17:01:37 <sipa> cfields: woohoo!!!
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1174 2014-08-20 17:02:11 <sipa> kdomanski: and get rid of CSerActionGetSerializeSize()
1175 2014-08-20 17:02:32 <kdomanski> sipa: perhaps, but that's another step
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1177 2014-08-20 17:03:50 <kdomanski> sipa: for now it just should get optimized out in Serialize and Unserialize, just like before
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1179 2014-08-20 17:04:29 <sipa> yes, i'm just talking code simplification here
1180 2014-08-20 17:04:37 <sipa> i don't think it would affect performance
1181 2014-08-20 17:06:54 <kdomanski> let's try to do exactly what you say once this gets reviewed by sufficient number of eyes and merged
1182 2014-08-20 17:07:04 <sipa> kdomanski: nice trick with the thisPtr to avoid const casting, but i wonder if it isn't overkill
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1184 2014-08-20 17:08:15 <sipa> kdomanski: fair enough, that can be delayed
1185 2014-08-20 17:08:35 <kdomanski> sipa: I tried with a reference (*this) before, but I failed some tests - however the failure might have been caused by some other mistake while rewriting SerializationOp
1186 2014-08-20 17:09:21 <sipa> not doing the thisPtr trick would mean much fewer changed lines
1187 2014-08-20 17:11:25 <kdomanski> but then you can't have f1 and f2 const from a single template
1188 2014-08-20 17:12:09 <kdomanski> or can you
1189 2014-08-20 17:12:18 <kdomanski> this should get inlined anyways
1190 2014-08-20 17:12:48 <sipa> the Serialize implementation would first constcast the *this object before applying SerializeOp to it
1191 2014-08-20 17:13:51 <kdomanski> ah right, and the pointer const-ness just needs to match the constness of the outer method
1192 2014-08-20 17:14:11 <sipa> well SerializeOp would never be const
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1194 2014-08-20 17:14:40 <kdomanski> but it gets inlined into the 3 methods, no?
1195 2014-08-20 17:14:42 <sipa> and you'd cheat - assuming that the implementation body of SerializeOp would never do any modification to the this object for Serialize and GetSerializeSize
1196 2014-08-20 17:14:53 <sipa> constness means nothing to the compiler
1197 2014-08-20 17:14:56 <sipa> for code generation
1198 2014-08-20 17:15:09 <sipa> it's just statis typing to prevent the programmer from doing wrong things
1199 2014-08-20 17:15:18 <kdomanski> right
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1201 2014-08-20 17:15:39 <cfields> btw wumpus
1202 2014-08-20 17:16:08 <cfields> if you're looking at breaking dependencies, looking at the generated .deps files can be a big help for getting a quick overview
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1204 2014-08-20 17:16:20 <kdomanski> if my memory serves me correctly, it wouldn't compile without the thisPtr and with non-static SerializationOp
1205 2014-08-20 17:16:37 <sipa> let me try to hack on your code
1206 2014-08-20 17:16:41 <kdomanski> sure
1207 2014-08-20 17:16:55 <kdomanski> I'll get some coffee
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1210 2014-08-20 17:18:50 <wumpus> cfields: yep, I use those, as well as my own script to determine link-time dependencies
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1214 2014-08-20 17:21:17 <wumpus> (which I intend to check into devtools at some point)
1215 2014-08-20 17:21:33 <cfields> wumpus: something more helpful than -Wl,--trace-symbol and/or -Wl,-Map ?
1216 2014-08-20 17:21:44 <cfields> if so, i'm sure i could use it as well :)
1217 2014-08-20 17:21:46 <cfields> ah, ok
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1221 2014-08-20 17:25:34 <wumpus> cfields: no idea; it basically just inventarises all the exported and imported symbols of the considered objects, and print per object file which symbols are used from what other object files
1222 2014-08-20 17:26:07 <cfields> ah, nice
1223 2014-08-20 17:26:18 <wumpus> (but I wasn't aware the linker also has similar options)
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1228 2014-08-20 17:28:24 <cfields> sipa: what would you think about making VerifyScript (in libbitcoinscript) explicitly non-threadsafe ?
1229 2014-08-20 17:28:36 <sipa> cfields: it already is?
1230 2014-08-20 17:28:58 <cfields> oh?
1231 2014-08-20 17:29:19 <sipa> sorry, it's threadsafe
1232 2014-08-20 17:29:27 <sipa> what do you mean?
1233 2014-08-20 17:29:39 <cfields> heh
1234 2014-08-20 17:29:40 <sipa> have it access an global signature cache?
1235 2014-08-20 17:29:58 <cfields> i'd like to work towards dropping the boost dependency for the lib
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1237 2014-08-20 17:30:11 <sipa> ok, good
1238 2014-08-20 17:30:17 <sipa> what does that have to do with thread safety?
1239 2014-08-20 17:30:54 <cfields> that means dropping some of the current locks and mutexes that exist in that chain
1240 2014-08-20 17:31:02 <cfields> or replacing them, at least
1241 2014-08-20 17:31:15 <sipa> such as?
1242 2014-08-20 17:31:34 RoboTeddy has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
1243 2014-08-20 17:31:42 <cfields> unfortunately, it goes as deep as the serialization and allocators
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1245 2014-08-20 17:32:06 <sipa> right
1246 2014-08-20 17:32:15 <sipa> that will be hard
1247 2014-08-20 17:32:36 <sipa> though libbitcoinscript shouldn't be using any mutexes at all
1248 2014-08-20 17:32:46 <kdomanski> cfields: if C++11 was an option, that wouldn't be a problem
1249 2014-08-20 17:32:49 <gmaxwell> I really don't think VerifyScript should be non-threadsafe. That sounds like a fantastically bad idea. Eliminating the boost dependency is a good idea, however.
1250 2014-08-20 17:33:01 <cfields> kdomanski: indeed
1251 2014-08-20 17:33:03 <sipa> it's threadsafe
1252 2014-08-20 17:33:12 <sipa> it doesn't access any global state that i'm aware of
1253 2014-08-20 17:33:30 <gmaxwell> I thought cfields was proposing making it non-threadsafe.
1254 2014-08-20 17:33:41 <kdomanski> cfields: how about implementing our own wrapper around platform-specific mutex calls?
1255 2014-08-20 17:33:47 <sipa> kdomanski: we have that
1256 2014-08-20 17:34:09 <cfields> gmaxwell: i'm looking into how the boost dep could be dropped, that seemed like the most simple path
1257 2014-08-20 17:34:24 <gmaxwell> I don't consider it acceptable. That sounds very dangerous.
1258 2014-08-20 17:34:32 <cfields> but if that's not reasonable, i'll look into other paths
1259 2014-08-20 17:34:34 <gmaxwell> (ultimately script verification should be side-effect free and C callable, but thats several steps away)
1260 2014-08-20 17:34:40 <cfields> yep, fair enough. that's why i asked :)
1261 2014-08-20 17:34:49 <gmaxwell> yea, reasonable instinct there. :)
1262 2014-08-20 17:34:57 <sipa> i think cfields asked about making it non-threadsafe because he believed it was accessing state
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1264 2014-08-20 17:35:03 <cfields> fwiw, i don't think there's any need for it, like sipa said, it doesn't seem to be using global state
1265 2014-08-20 17:35:20 <sipa> but it is not accessing any state; the code just indirectly depends on code using mutexes
1266 2014-08-20 17:35:53 <cfields> ok great, those were all answers i was looking for. thanks.
1267 2014-08-20 17:36:27 <cfields> btw, i would consider header-only boost usage to be acceptible
1268 2014-08-20 17:36:40 <gmaxwell> I wouldn't. I mean, not long term.
1269 2014-08-20 17:36:41 <cfields> at least as a first step
1270 2014-08-20 17:36:44 <gmaxwell> right.
1271 2014-08-20 17:37:06 <cfields> but i think kdomanski was exactly right wrt long-term. c++11 solves most of that.
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1276 2014-08-20 17:37:40 <cfields> a good chunk of it would just go s/boost/std/g
1277 2014-08-20 17:37:55 <gmaxwell> cfields: whats it calling that is using mutexes?
1278 2014-08-20 17:38:34 <cfields> gmaxwell: i'm not sure how much of it actually gets called/used, so much as included indirectly
1279 2014-08-20 17:38:37 <kdomanski> The last time C++11 was considered, the conclusion was that it's not supported on some platform with old GCC (CentOS or something). Is that still the case?
1280 2014-08-20 17:38:50 <kdomanski> btw. C++11 also has atomic operations
1281 2014-08-20 17:39:02 <cfields> gmaxwell: but, serialization and allocators
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1283 2014-08-20 17:39:29 <kdomanski> sipa: `git grep -i mutex` yields only boost::mutex and a wrapper around boost::mutex
1284 2014-08-20 17:40:04 <cfields> kdomanski: i was the major opponent of the c++11 move last time around. Not because i'm opposed at all (i'm a big fan), but only because the decision was being taken too lightly
1285 2014-08-20 17:40:42 <cfields> it's getting close to the point where gcc >= 4.8 is readily available, so it'd be good to re-evaluate relatively soon
1286 2014-08-20 17:41:21 <kdomanski> cfields: duh, you're not supposed to tell me what I'm getting on christmass :P
1287 2014-08-20 17:41:35 <gmaxwell> kdomanski: it's still the case that we have supported platforms with incomplete C++11 support. I think we should start partially phasing it in, e.g. for things which are supported in older GCC.
1288 2014-08-20 17:41:47 <gmaxwell> Doing it all at once would likely be unwise in any case.
1289 2014-08-20 17:41:57 <cfields> ^^ was the thing i was so violently opposed to :)
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1291 2014-08-20 17:42:23 <gmaxwell> e.g. maybe we can replace the boost for-each stuff?
1292 2014-08-20 17:42:29 <kdomanski> gmaxwell: which version of GCC are we certain to have everywhere?
1293 2014-08-20 17:42:50 <sipa> 4.2? :p
1294 2014-08-20 17:42:53 <cfields> imo we use c++11 or we don't. if it's too hard to get a compliant compiler, it's too early to switch
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1297 2014-08-20 17:43:34 <kdomanski> range-based for is supported >= 4.6
1298 2014-08-20 17:43:42 <cfields> so many semantics change, it's not like it's just the availability of new things
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1300 2014-08-20 17:43:46 <gmaxwell> I was thinking 4.5, darn.
1301 2014-08-20 17:43:54 <sipa> i'm joking
1302 2014-08-20 17:44:01 <sipa> afaik no compiler supports c++11 entirely?
1303 2014-08-20 17:44:06 <sipa> not even gcc 4.8
1304 2014-08-20 17:44:14 <kdomanski> dude wat?
1305 2014-08-20 17:44:14 <cfields> sipa: clang 3.4 and gcc 4.9
1306 2014-08-20 17:44:24 <cfields> gcc 4.8 is very very close
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1308 2014-08-20 17:45:48 <kdomanski> move semantics was supported as early as GCC 4.3
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1310 2014-08-20 17:45:48 <kdomanski> same for static assertions
1311 2014-08-20 17:45:49 <cfields> sipa: what's your employer's policy on c++11, out of curiosity?
1312 2014-08-20 17:45:58 <gmaxwell> cfields: The boost dependency is not hot either though, so it's not a free decision. We've had plenty of compatibility problems w/ boost and after stepping through the boost code in a debugger I now wake up in cold sweats that we're using it in consensus critical code. :P
1313 2014-08-20 17:46:17 <sipa> cfields: i currently have no employer :p
1314 2014-08-20 17:46:36 <cfields> sipa: ah, so "whatever sipa says" then :)
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1317 2014-08-20 17:46:57 <sipa> google has an ever-changing set of allowed language features in C++
1318 2014-08-20 17:47:02 <cfields> gmaxwell: that's a fair point.
1319 2014-08-20 17:47:06 <sipa> and since recently that includes some C++11 functionality
1320 2014-08-20 17:47:18 <cfields> gmaxwell: it's also worth considering that it could be switched on in some places and not others
1321 2014-08-20 17:47:23 <cfields> as a different means of easing into it
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1324 2014-08-20 17:48:21 <sipa> kdomanski: there's still a 'No' on https://gcc.gnu.org/projects/cxx0x.html
1325 2014-08-20 17:48:21 <cfields> sipa: meaning an evolving set of hard rules?
1326 2014-08-20 17:48:52 <sipa> cfields: i guess?
1327 2014-08-20 17:48:52 <kdomanski> sipa: on garbage collection :P
1328 2014-08-20 17:49:01 <jrick> pretty sure clang even has c++14 support, at least from the most recent spec draft
1329 2014-08-20 17:49:13 <cfields> jrick: yea, full c++14 support in svn it seems
1330 2014-08-20 17:49:21 <sipa> impressive
1331 2014-08-20 17:49:24 <jrick> dunno about gcc
1332 2014-08-20 17:49:29 <cfields> jrick: s/spec draft/final spec/
1333 2014-08-20 17:49:34 <kdomanski> partial
1334 2014-08-20 17:49:36 <sipa> indeed, it was just finalized
1335 2014-08-20 17:49:51 <jrick> the final spec had some minor changes iirc
1336 2014-08-20 17:50:05 <gmaxwell> it's generally been the case that GCC has had c++(future) support years before, as partial and/or non-conforming trial implementations and extensions.
1337 2014-08-20 17:50:24 <sipa> and the rest is in boost :p
1338 2014-08-20 17:50:26 <gmaxwell> https://gcc.gnu.org/projects/cxx1y.html
1339 2014-08-20 17:50:28 <cfields> sipa: back on track.. thoughts on removing the openssl dep from the lib as well?
1340 2014-08-20 17:50:30 <sipa> to the extent possible
1341 2014-08-20 17:50:38 <cfields> there's minimal usage there
1342 2014-08-20 17:50:43 <sipa> cfields: that will require libsecp256k1...
1343 2014-08-20 17:51:05 <sipa> (it does ecdsa verification)
1344 2014-08-20 17:51:26 <cfields> right
1345 2014-08-20 17:51:35 <cfields> sipa: OPENSSL_cleanse was the low-hanging fruit i was after, in particular
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1347 2014-08-20 17:51:50 <gmaxwell> hm? why would scriptverify need that.
1348 2014-08-20 17:51:51 <cfields> used by the allocators
1349 2014-08-20 17:52:02 <gmaxwell> don't need it for script verify.
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1351 2014-08-20 17:52:12 <sipa> indeed
1352 2014-08-20 17:52:19 <gmaxwell> uh is scriptverify using the secureallocator?!
1353 2014-08-20 17:52:50 <cfields> gmaxwell: it's required for link, so it's pulled in somehow. i haven't traced the path yet.
1354 2014-08-20 17:53:13 <gmaxwell> okay, unless some signing stuff ended up on the boundary.
1355 2014-08-20 17:53:51 <Luke-Jr> +1 to GPL-compatible script stuff
1356 2014-08-20 17:54:20 <cfields> so the answer there, if it is getting roped in, is just to avoid the use of those allocators there?
1357 2014-08-20 17:55:06 <wumpus> scriptverify should certainly not be using the secure allocator
1358 2014-08-20 17:55:11 <gmaxwell> yea, we shouldn't be using secure_allocator in verification.
1359 2014-08-20 17:55:14 <cfields> (i clearly have no idea what i'm talking about here code-wise, i've been looking at it strictly from a builder's pov)
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1361 2014-08-20 17:55:17 <sipa> script depends on key
1362 2014-08-20 17:55:24 <sipa> private keys use the secure allocator
1363 2014-08-20 17:55:33 <sipa> verification doesn't use private keys
1364 2014-08-20 17:55:41 <sipa> solution: split key up in a verification part and the rest
1365 2014-08-20 17:55:45 <cfields> sipa: serialization as well
1366 2014-08-20 17:55:48 <sipa> (which makes sense, as the first is consensus critical)
1367 2014-08-20 17:55:56 <wumpus> yes that makes sense
1368 2014-08-20 17:56:01 <gmaxwell> sipa++
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1370 2014-08-20 17:57:13 <cfields> ok, will have a go at it. thanks, guys
1371 2014-08-20 17:57:27 <wumpus> cfields: indeed, serialize seems to use zero_after_free_allocator
1372 2014-08-20 17:58:02 <gmaxwell> hm. right that calls clense too.. well thats less obviously wrong.
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1376 2014-08-20 17:58:20 <wumpus> it's not wrong
1377 2014-08-20 17:58:23 <gmaxwell> (since we do want to avoid allowing badguy controlled data to be left around, in case it can be leveraged by another attack)
1378 2014-08-20 17:59:00 <cfields> could we reasonably reimplement cleanse?
1379 2014-08-20 18:00:07 <wumpus> sure
1380 2014-08-20 18:00:09 <gmaxwell> Sure. Though the way openssl does it is kinda ... well. OpenSSLy
1381 2014-08-20 18:00:16 <sipa> OPENSSL_cleanse is trivial and possibly broken
1382 2014-08-20 18:00:22 <gmaxwell> Yea.
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1384 2014-08-20 18:00:45 <sipa> i wouldn't be surprised if there are race conditions under which it's less safe than memset
1385 2014-08-20 18:00:48 <cfields> gmaxwell: by that you mean a series of macros that ultimately resolve to a broken rng? :p
1386 2014-08-20 18:00:55 <gmaxwell> really it should just be an externed memset, I suppose.
1387 2014-08-20 18:01:16 <gmaxwell> (by externed I mean setup so it can't get inlined)
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1389 2014-08-20 18:01:22 <sipa> memset to some non-zero pattern may be useful for detecting accidental usage
1390 2014-08-20 18:01:35 <gmaxwell> Also less likely to get optimized out.
1391 2014-08-20 18:01:57 <Arnavion> I'm not sure the pattern will matter if the compiler can detect the memory is getting cleared later
1392 2014-08-20 18:01:59 <cfields> gmaxwell: that proved to be pretty tough to accomplish
1393 2014-08-20 18:02:09 <sipa> Arnavion: it shouldn't be able to detect that
1394 2014-08-20 18:02:11 <Arnavion> s/cleared/unused/
1395 2014-08-20 18:02:21 <cfields> gmaxwell: see the glibc-compat stuff, where i had to ensure that memcpy wasn't inlined
1396 2014-08-20 18:02:35 <gmaxwell> Arnavion: if the function can't get inlined and is in another compilation unit then that covers much of it.
1397 2014-08-20 18:02:46 <Arnavion> gmaxwell: Yes, I agree with that
1398 2014-08-20 18:02:58 <gmaxwell> ultimately you cannot guarentee memory is cleared in C since it can spill at any place and any time.
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1401 2014-08-20 18:03:51 <gmaxwell> E.g. your secret data could get written out into some other place on the stack for an unrelated variable that the compiler currently has in a register.
1402 2014-08-20 18:04:00 <gmaxwell> so at best this stuff can be is best-effort.
1403 2014-08-20 18:04:05 <Arnavion> I must say though that this is the first time I've heard of an externed memset being used for secure clearing
1404 2014-08-20 18:04:11 <Arnavion> (I don't do much C/C++)
1405 2014-08-20 18:04:13 <gmaxwell> And should be done in a way that doesn't create crazy risks. (e.g. not the openssl approach)
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1407 2014-08-20 18:04:43 <cfields> anyway, if it's agreed that we can drop the cleanse, then the how-to can be discussed separately. I'll just assume that it's doable and shove in a placeholder memset while i work.
1408 2014-08-20 18:04:43 <Arnavion> I only knew about playtform-specific things like Windows' SecureZeroMemory() which says it'll never be optimized out
1409 2014-08-20 18:04:54 <Arnavion> but that's probably because it's similar to an externed memset...
1410 2014-08-20 18:05:46 <cfields> heh, aliased to DropYourValuableDataHerePlease() :p
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1412 2014-08-20 18:07:36 <gmaxwell> cfields: yea, just use memset as a placeholder. We can figure out how to do that more reliably.
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1422 2014-08-20 18:17:40 <sipa> kdomanski: i got addrman to compile with a version of SerializationOp that doesn't have a templated this argument
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1424 2014-08-20 18:18:54 <kdomanski> sipa: at my end things usually went to shit right after addrman
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1429 2014-08-20 18:27:20 <sipa> kdomanski: seems to be compiling main now too
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1431 2014-08-20 18:27:55 <kdomanski> sipa: alright
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1443 2014-08-20 18:40:57 <sipa> kdomanski: heh, laptop died with out of power; a few files corrupted :(
1444 2014-08-20 18:41:38 <kdomanski> sipa: the malice of death things
1445 2014-08-20 18:41:46 <kdomanski> s/death/dead/
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1477 2014-08-20 19:21:50 <sipa> kdomanski: see my 'cleanerser' branch
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1485 2014-08-20 19:26:38 <kdomanski> sipa: looking
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1519 2014-08-20 19:54:51 <aphorise> Are there any requirments for a node-hub? - I was told that ou need like 10Gb line
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1522 2014-08-20 19:57:27 <elichai2> anyone knows why this: configure: error: PROTOC not found
1523 2014-08-20 19:57:28 <elichai2> ?
1524 2014-08-20 19:57:33 <wumpus> what's a node-hub?
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1526 2014-08-20 19:58:08 <aphorise> like a super node?
1527 2014-08-20 19:58:12 <kdomanski> elichai2: you need to install protobuf
1528 2014-08-20 19:58:33 <wumpus> there are no supernodes for bitcoin
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1530 2014-08-20 19:59:25 <elichai2> kdomanski, ok... why it's not mentioned in the build-unix?
1531 2014-08-20 19:59:56 <wumpus> is is mentioned in build-unix
1532 2014-08-20 20:00:19 <wumpus> search for protobuf, the word occurs a few times
1533 2014-08-20 20:01:15 <elichai2> haa, you right, and i had it in my install line, weird....
1534 2014-08-20 20:01:31 <aphorise> what was: https://blockchain.info/hub-nodes?show_adv=true <-- just trying to understand this page I guess
1535 2014-08-20 20:02:09 <Luke-Jr> aphorise: don't try, blockchain.info is almost entirely misinformation..
1536 2014-08-20 20:02:26 <elichai2> ok, i installed "libprotobuf-dev" but still same error :\
1537 2014-08-20 20:02:41 <Luke-Jr> elichai2: you need all of protobuf, not just that one part
1538 2014-08-20 20:02:57 <wumpus> there's also the protobuf compiler
1539 2014-08-20 20:03:10 <elichai2> Luke-Jr, wumpus but i use Qt5
1540 2014-08-20 20:03:15 <Luke-Jr> it's probably a package like "protoc" or something
1541 2014-08-20 20:03:19 <wumpus> protobuf-compiler
1542 2014-08-20 20:03:23 <Luke-Jr> elichai2: irrelevant, bitcoin core uses protobuf
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1546 2014-08-20 20:03:56 <elichai2> ok, so the file need to be fixed, it's mentioned only under Qt4
1547 2014-08-20 20:04:28 <wumpus> elichai2: yep, feel free to fix it
1548 2014-08-20 20:04:41 <elichai2> i will add a pull request :)
1549 2014-08-20 20:04:46 <elichai2> (first one, lol)
1550 2014-08-20 20:04:50 <wumpus> thanks
1551 2014-08-20 20:05:47 <Luke-Jr> aphorise: if you want to learn about *Bitcoin* (and not bc.i), I suggest starting with https://bitcoin.org/en/developer-guide
1552 2014-08-20 20:06:50 <elichai2> wumpus, i do it via github or the git itself?
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1557 2014-08-20 20:07:56 <Luke-Jr> elichai2: github is fine as long as it has the email address you want to use
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1559 2014-08-20 20:08:31 <elichai2> Luke-Jr, yeah, i already have an account and a few projects.... (but they all mine so i never did pull request lol)
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1566 2014-08-20 20:15:21 <elichai2> done :)
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1568 2014-08-20 20:21:08 <Luke-Jr> elichai2: hm, did GitHub not allow you to put a real description on the commit? :/
1569 2014-08-20 20:21:21 <Luke-Jr> "Update build-unix.md" is kinda elgh
1570 2014-08-20 20:21:49 <elichai2> to describe more? even at the title?
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1577 2014-08-20 20:22:41 <elichai2> Luke-Jr, better?
1578 2014-08-20 20:23:31 <Luke-Jr> yes, but you didn't change the commit there, just the pull request :/
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1580 2014-08-20 20:25:09 <elichai2> ohhh you right, i'll see if it's possible
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1583 2014-08-20 20:28:44 <jgarzik> sipa, discovering one useful aspect of BOOST_CHECK_EQUAL: it will print the value of both sides, not just an indication that the check failed
1584 2014-08-20 20:28:57 <jgarzik> useful for non-boolean values, over BOOST_CHECK()
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1587 2014-08-20 20:33:34 <kdomanski> sipa: won
1588 2014-08-20 20:33:37 <kdomanski> damn
1589 2014-08-20 20:33:58 <kdomanski> sipa: won't compile, you removed a little bit too much
1590 2014-08-20 20:35:56 <dhill> brb
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1594 2014-08-20 20:42:48 <elichai2> Luke-Jr, i just made it worse :\ i'm working to fix it...
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1605 2014-08-20 20:48:23 <kdomanski> sipa: and some of this pointer stuff you removed was there before my work
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1620 2014-08-20 20:59:40 <elichai2> Luke-Jr, fixed :)
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1643 2014-08-20 21:13:24 money is now known as hedgefund
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1652 2014-08-20 21:17:20 <Scorpianz> sending funds to an address
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1659 2014-08-20 21:19:30 <donhelio> sending to 15FJKAj2JXRAVafzwQZ4YJMKF2M67Ww3bX
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1668 2014-08-20 21:27:09 <BlueMatt> wumpus: you gonna look at moving hex stuff to its own file, or should I?
1669 2014-08-20 21:27:18 <BlueMatt> (wasnt that the conclusion last night, dont remember)
1670 2014-08-20 21:27:20 <BlueMatt> or sipa
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1679 2014-08-20 21:46:47 <sipa> jgarzik: and how exactly is that helpful for a boolean? :)
1680 2014-08-20 21:47:38 <sipa> kdomanski: heh?
1681 2014-08-20 21:48:19 <sipa> kdomanski: what pointer stuff?
1682 2014-08-20 21:48:25 <kdomanski> sipa: the code in your branch doesn't compile for me, because you removed a little bit too much
1683 2014-08-20 21:49:05 <gmaxwell> sipa: he said "useful for non-boolean values"
1684 2014-08-20 21:49:11 <sipa> gmaxwell: oh!
1685 2014-08-20 21:49:17 <sipa> jgarzik: apologies!
1686 2014-08-20 21:49:29 <elichai2> how's got write access on the github? gmaxwell?
1687 2014-08-20 21:50:03 <kdomanski> sipa: for example CAccountingEntry& me = *const_cast<CAccountingEntry*>(thisPtr);
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1689 2014-08-20 21:50:20 <kdomanski> where I just changed this to thisPtr
1690 2014-08-20 21:50:26 <kdomanski> but it's cool now, compiling
1691 2014-08-20 21:50:33 <sipa> kdomanski: oh, i build with --disable-wallet
1692 2014-08-20 21:50:46 <kdomanski> kdomanski: oh
1693 2014-08-20 21:50:56 <kdomanski> s/kdomanski/sipa/
1694 2014-08-20 21:51:13 <kdomanski> duh, need another coffee
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1709 2014-08-20 22:07:15 <elichai2> can someone with write access to the git have a look? https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/4739
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1725 2014-08-20 22:15:41 <gmaxwell> elichai2: please don't nag people immediately after creating a pull req. It'll get looked at.
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1731 2014-08-20 22:28:51 <elichai2> gmaxwell, not nagging, sorry
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1734 2014-08-20 22:33:33 <gwillen> win goto #bitcoin
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1746 2014-08-20 22:55:40 <sipa> kdomanski: added an extra commit and fixed things
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1751 2014-08-20 22:59:18 <kdomanski> heh, me too :P
1752 2014-08-20 22:59:32 <kdomanski> sipa: just pushed into the PR
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1754 2014-08-20 23:00:09 <sipa> kdomanski: you can just cherry pick my commit
1755 2014-08-20 23:01:05 <sipa> ah, you avoided passing the type of the function, nic
1756 2014-08-20 23:01:13 <sipa> my extra commit removes nSerSize
1757 2014-08-20 23:01:18 <sipa> everywhere
1758 2014-08-20 23:01:31 <kdomanski> now that's a good one
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1760 2014-08-20 23:02:18 <sipa> also reduces the diff :)
1761 2014-08-20 23:02:51 <kdomanski> sipa: as for "Simplify SerializationOp interface", I've been working upon your changes and fixed the same things
1762 2014-08-20 23:03:11 <kdomanski> sipa: with the addition of yet again removing the parameter from IMPLEMENT_SERIALIZE
1763 2014-08-20 23:03:33 <kdomanski> sipa: and replacing it with a mini template
1764 2014-08-20 23:03:36 <sipa> yeah, that's a nice one
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1766 2014-08-20 23:04:26 <kdomanski> I'll cherry-pick your other commit in a little while
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1801 2014-08-20 23:39:19 <ayansh> hi #bitcoin-dev http://106.51.76.15:9332/static/ < i modified some OS parameters to decrease getbock latency.. however no shares since yesterday.. anything wrong in grpahs? p2pool node.
1802 2014-08-20 23:41:44 <ayansh> txqueuelen 2000 for interface, /sys/block/sda/queue/read_ahead_kb = 128, vm.nr_hugepages=512, cpu affinity for interrupt handling of my network interface .
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1804 2014-08-20 23:43:07 <ayansh> not sure if it's the luck or the new parmeters. also running RelayNodeClient.jar in parallel.
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1808 2014-08-20 23:45:39 <BlueMatt> ayansh: is that materially effecting your getblock latency?
1809 2014-08-20 23:46:58 <ayansh> BlueMatt:getblock latency is reduced as compared to pre optimization with mentioned changes.
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1812 2014-08-20 23:48:13 <BlueMatt> by....%?
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1827 2014-08-20 23:51:40 <phantomcircuit> BlueMatt, i'd be shocked if it was significant...
1828 2014-08-20 23:51:52 <BlueMatt> hence my question
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1830 2014-08-20 23:52:22 <ayansh> earlier it was close to 0.15 now getwork latency is close to 0.130
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1836 2014-08-20 23:53:31 <ayansh> up 18:10, 1 user, load average: 0.37, 0.26, 0.23
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1842 2014-08-20 23:55:53 <ayansh> not sure.. would see another 4 hours and roll back changes made.
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1850 2014-08-20 23:57:58 <ayansh> *not sure about luck vs os perameter changes.
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