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  13 2014-08-22 00:15:44 <eitan_chatav> Hello, I've a question about payment protocol. How is BIP 70 related to homomorphic payments? Is homomorphic payment supported in any client currently?
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  17 2014-08-22 00:19:32 <gmaxwell> eitan_chatav: it's not related.
  18 2014-08-22 00:20:12 <eitan_chatav> gmaxwell: thanks. is it the subject of a future BIP?
  19 2014-08-22 00:21:07 <gmaxwell> Perhaps! The data managment issue for pay to contract seem tricky to solve, as do the privacy ones. I'd like to see it done.
  20 2014-08-22 00:21:29 <gmaxwell> I've seen some people doing overly simplistic versions of it which are insecure.
  21 2014-08-22 00:21:58 <eitan_chatav> What are the issues involved? Are they specific to homomorphic payment?
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  23 2014-08-22 00:22:44 <phantomcircuit> bah maths
  24 2014-08-22 00:22:52 <eitan_chatav> yay math
  25 2014-08-22 00:22:53 <gmaxwell> (E.g. insecure version: if I tell you that my pubkey is X  where X is really H(fake_contract)*G  and you pay to X+H(real_contract)*G  then I can go claim to people that the contract was fake_contract)
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  27 2014-08-22 00:23:42 <gmaxwell> The other class of issues is where payment is made to a contract and parties don't get the contract written to reliable storage before the payment, and the coins are lost forever.
  28 2014-08-22 00:24:16 <phantomcircuit> eitan_chatav, calculate how large the window needs to be such that the actual number of shares submitted at difficulty N for a device expected to run at hashrate H is within X% of the expected Y% of the time
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  30 2014-08-22 00:24:53 <phantomcircuit> i say again
  31 2014-08-22 00:24:54 <phantomcircuit> bah maths
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  33 2014-08-22 00:25:06 <eitan_chatav> lol, fair enuff phantomcircuit
  34 2014-08-22 00:25:29 <eitan_chatav> though I probs wouldn't classify that as math
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  36 2014-08-22 00:26:30 <gmaxwell> The privacy issue is, say you use pay-to-contract and this is well known— then ninjas show up and demand copies of all your contracts— thus getting cryptographically provable evidence of what the contracts were.
  37 2014-08-22 00:27:33 <eitan_chatav> damned ninjas
  38 2014-08-22 00:27:36 <gmaxwell> e.g. even if the reciver and transmitter both want to conceal the contract against a hostile third party, they probably can't.
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  41 2014-08-22 00:29:21 <eitan_chatav> gmaxwell: is there a thread somewhere I can read about this?
  42 2014-08-22 00:29:22 <phantomcircuit> eitan_chatav, afaict it's calculating the CDF for the poisson distributon
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  44 2014-08-22 00:29:50 <eitan_chatav> phantomcircuit: I'm just kidding around but that's applied maths ;-)
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  46 2014-08-22 00:30:09 <gmaxwell> eitan_chatav: probably not. I made some post with an attempt at improving the privacy, but I'm not super happy with it: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=318279.0
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  48 2014-08-22 00:31:02 <eitan_chatav> gmaxwell: I assume that there are problems with current ad-hoc solutions for merchant/customer payment systems, right?
  49 2014-08-22 00:33:57 <gmaxwell> eitan_chatav: basically no one is saying "there are contract disputes which pay-to-contract could solve"... perhaps because people are stupid. :)
  50 2014-08-22 00:34:14 <eitan_chatav> oh I get it, it's worse because of the provability of the contract, so you can't fool a coercer
  51 2014-08-22 00:34:56 <gmaxwell> so pay-to-contract is not so exciting when it solves problems people don't seem to care about ... and then yea, leaves you vulnerable to coercison and makes you more at risk of losing funds. (e.g. if your disk fails right after the deal is done and your last backup was more than a few seconds ago)
  52 2014-08-22 00:35:38 <eitan_chatav> I see. Ok :-( Too bad, I was real excited a couple years back when I saw Timo's talk about it.
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 291 2014-08-22 07:20:57 <arioBarzan> Luke-Jr: probably you're more likely to steal random coins than anyone else, because almost all other nodes don't even bother to relay that kind of transactions, and obviously rest of miners other than Eligius don't confirm them either. So there is a high probability that others don't get to know about the consumed coins with no OP_CHECKSIG in their script, until Eligius put them in a block.
 292 2014-08-22 07:22:08 <arioBarzan> (as I mentioned before) like tx/b5c103dae667c4c5067be34510b30bef059090db09355c993cda00517a2b79a6
 293 2014-08-22 07:25:31 <poutine> arioBarzan, I made that tx
 294 2014-08-22 07:25:35 <arioBarzan> Bytheway I didn't say "you're more likely", I said you "could easily" do that. So I didn't mean that you have any intention of stealing other people's coins :)
 295 2014-08-22 07:26:08 <poutine> I don't advocate blind trust, but I don't think it'd be good for anyone's reputation for that to happen, also the value of it was worth the risk
 296 2014-08-22 07:26:08 <arioBarzan> poutine: yup, you had your signature in the script as I said yesterday.
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 319 2014-08-22 07:47:36 <amaclin> arioBarzan, try to send 0.0002 to 3GMLTNSF8ZhuSvysvHvauxP7AbWMfjiu7G and see what happens next :)
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 322 2014-08-22 07:51:13 <wumpus> cfields: travis is rejecting all pulls :(
 323 2014-08-22 07:51:38 <wumpus> Merge with caution!
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 372 2014-08-22 09:03:19 <elichai2> petertodd, here?
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 383 2014-08-22 09:23:13 <wumpus> ... -lcrypto -lminiupnpc -lminiupnpc -lminiupnpc -lminiupnpc -lcrypt32 ...
 384 2014-08-22 09:23:20 <wumpus> maybe we're slightly over the top there
 385 2014-08-22 09:24:03 <gmaxwell> "link, damn you, link!"
 386 2014-08-22 09:24:13 <wumpus> and still it gives undefined reference error, maybe one more -miniupnpc will solve it!
 387 2014-08-22 09:24:29 plaprade has joined
 388 2014-08-22 09:25:33 <wumpus> --force-link --weld --apply-strong-pressure
 389 2014-08-22 09:26:21 <gmaxwell> don't forget -f(ice)pic
 390 2014-08-22 09:26:28 wiretapped has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
 391 2014-08-22 09:26:30 <sipa> -fomit-broken-code -Optimize-the-crap-out-of-it -fuse-the-force-luke
 392 2014-08-22 09:26:49 <wumpus> hehe
 393 2014-08-22 09:26:58 <elichai2> does anyone here ever used petter todd's 'replace-by-fee-tools'?
 394 2014-08-22 09:27:20 <gmaxwell> Of probable interest to people here: http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2e6q7z/a_fast_relay_network_for_miners/
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 398 2014-08-22 09:37:20 <wumpus> good writeup
 399 2014-08-22 09:40:22 <wumpus> ah, miniupnpc have renamed -DSTATICLIB to -DMINIUPNP_STATICLIB, so thinking it was importing from a DLL library it put damn __imps before the symbols
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 422 2014-08-22 10:24:49 <elichai2> <elichai2> hey
 423 2014-08-22 10:24:49 <elichai2>  why do i get 'error: {"code":-25,"message":""}' on this transaction: ?
 424 2014-08-22 10:24:49 <elichai2>  0100000001658e70e3860fd59169366e0ee01149c1c484ef0f7ce658c3b3add79ca03aa709000000006b4830450221008dcaf7ae841319ddcaa71e7aa3751c935f7e8070227a084f4b75259e560c4dc5022037442e22666352587834f3d0fd7f86296cee1949b396b17efe5e25612aa701ad01210379d37c226a0deda8b2abbef987cecec9ebeeaba2a63b01cc28910d721e735caeffffffff01a73a0100000000001976a9149824cfa26f1e8b3ff3be47af354f192768eb26a688ac00000000
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 448 2014-08-22 10:51:20 <josiah> Hi folks
 449 2014-08-22 10:51:41 <josiah> I'm trying to test payment processing with bitcoin-qt
 450 2014-08-22 10:51:53 <josiah> but bitcoin-qt does not like my uri
 451 2014-08-22 10:52:06 <josiah> 'bitcoin:mrzURcDyJsW8wX3t13Hes5ArKAPKvJE8n3?amount=0.5096693602'
 452 2014-08-22 10:52:12 <josiah> any ideas?
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 465 2014-08-22 11:01:01 <Eliel> josiah: is it running in testnet mode?
 466 2014-08-22 11:04:06 p8m has joined
 467 2014-08-22 11:04:59 <josiah> yep
 468 2014-08-22 11:05:08 <josiah> I'm running on ubuntu
 469 2014-08-22 11:05:30 <josiah> @Eliel it works on my windows 7 version of qt
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 473 2014-08-22 11:08:14 <fanquake> josiah I’m seeing  IOUnserialize has detected a string that is not valid UTF-8
 474 2014-08-22 11:10:30 bkbk has joined
 475 2014-08-22 11:10:42 <josiah> not sure what it could be
 476 2014-08-22 11:10:59 Guest8920 has joined
 477 2014-08-22 11:11:05 <josiah> the address was generated by bitcoind
 478 2014-08-22 11:11:16 <josiah> and it works with Electrum bitcoin Wallet
 479 2014-08-22 11:11:22 banghouse has joined
 480 2014-08-22 11:11:31 <fanquake> A further look suggests that my error message is actually some osx issue
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 494 2014-08-22 11:29:08 <Guest58481> While I wait for my username to be released (robbak), is there any move to switch to a more current BDB?
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 497 2014-08-22 11:29:53 <hearn> robbak_: afaik no, not if you mean a smooth/automatic migration process
 498 2014-08-22 11:29:57 <robbak_> The bdb4 series is being depreciated across the planet.
 499 2014-08-22 11:30:59 luktgf has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
 500 2014-08-22 11:31:06 <hearn> luckily deprecated software does not just magically disappear
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 502 2014-08-22 11:33:23 <robbak_> As long as it is still supported in some way. With bdb5 a drop-in replacement, I'd like to see us switch with the next release.
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 509 2014-08-22 11:37:31 <robbak_> FreeBSD has just dropped everything before 4.8, and plans to drop 4.8 within the year. So I'm going to be in the same situation that Ubuntu users are now - either having to go our own way with 5.n, or hacking in a local copy of 4.8.
 510 2014-08-22 11:37:44 yubrew has joined
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 512 2014-08-22 11:42:15 <hearn> or just use the precompiled binaries
 513 2014-08-22 11:42:18 <hearn> only developers have to worry about this
 514 2014-08-22 11:42:25 <hearn> the problem with upgrading BDB is that the file formats are incompatible
 515 2014-08-22 11:42:26 yubrew has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 516 2014-08-22 11:42:29 <hearn> the configure script explains this
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 519 2014-08-22 11:42:57 <Luke-Jr> hearn: we don't have precompiled BSD binaries O.o
 520 2014-08-22 11:43:08 <robbak_> Yeah - well, as I am the person who updates the port that is used to create the precompiled binaries, it is going to be my problem!
 521 2014-08-22 11:43:14 <hearn> ah ha :)
 522 2014-08-22 11:43:28 <hearn> yeah, so you'll have to include the old bdb i guess. or break wallet compatibility, but that would be bad
 523 2014-08-22 11:43:50 <Luke-Jr> robbak_: I don't think we really officially support BSD at all, even with source - need someone interested in testing and maintaining that port ;)
 524 2014-08-22 11:44:25 <Luke-Jr> robbak_: (which would indeed make it "your problem" if you choose to be that person)
 525 2014-08-22 11:44:52 <Luke-Jr> "some day" hopefully we will switch to a log-based wallet format, but I don't see it happening too soon :/
 526 2014-08-22 11:46:32 <robbak_> Yeah. We'll see what happens with bdb. In all likelihood they'll keep 4.8 around longer than they are currently planning.
 527 2014-08-22 11:46:59 <gmaxwell> realistically with oracle seemingly trying to kill bdb you'll see more projects doing this.
 528 2014-08-22 11:47:29 <gmaxwell> it doesn't make sense to continue on an incompatible upgrade train that introduces bugs and ends in a license incompatibility brick wall.
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 530 2014-08-22 12:00:08 <wumpus> I don't see it as a big issue, right now bdb48 is easy enough to build from source
 531 2014-08-22 12:01:18 <wumpus> of course, at some point in the future code rot will set in, as the existing archive will be incompatible with new compilers and libraries, and it doesn't sound very appealing either to take maintenance upon us
 532 2014-08-22 12:02:47 <wumpus> then again, maybe still more appealing than the nastiness that 5.x+ may bring
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 535 2014-08-22 12:11:40 <wumpus> I hope that someone will pick it up at some point, introduce a new wallet format that doesn't have dependencies on any db lib
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 543 2014-08-22 12:26:12 <wumpus> going to tag 0.9.3rc1 in a bit, can anyone have a last look https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/0.9.3/doc/release-notes.md  https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/commits/0.9.3
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 548 2014-08-22 12:28:48 <Luke-Jr> wumpus: I looked over the release notes, didn't see anything to change.
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 559 2014-08-22 12:43:12 <wumpus> thanks
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 569 2014-08-22 13:08:43 <wumpus>  * [new tag]         v0.9.3rc1 -> v0.9.3rc1
 570 2014-08-22 13:10:28 <wumpus> gitian builds can start
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 581 2014-08-22 13:18:52 * michagogo just got his SMS
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 592 2014-08-22 13:35:36 <michagogo> wumpus: was the qt win dep version intentionally not bumped?
 593 2014-08-22 13:36:11 <michagogo> (I ask because in the past, openssl update has usually bumped the deps version)
 594 2014-08-22 13:37:45 rdbell_ has joined
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 596 2014-08-22 13:40:27 <wumpus> michagogo: yes
 597 2014-08-22 13:40:48 <wumpus> the windows qt dep doesn't change when the openssl version changes
 598 2014-08-22 13:41:12 nullbyte has joined
 599 2014-08-22 13:41:16 <michagogo> Really? Maybe I'm misremembering...
 600 2014-08-22 13:41:18 * michagogo looks
 601 2014-08-22 13:41:24 <wumpus> I checked.
 602 2014-08-22 13:41:41 <michagogo> How come OS X does?
 603 2014-08-22 13:41:46 RagnarDanneskjol has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 604 2014-08-22 13:41:52 <wumpus> because it's not deterministic
 605 2014-08-22 13:42:44 <michagogo> erm
 606 2014-08-22 13:42:45 <michagogo> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/commit/4a811b00534cb1ba39f8d31c4912ba995a4ac268
 607 2014-08-22 13:42:52 <michagogo> was immediately followed by https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/commit/178825dec338cb0840aef1d23415981012a5593f
 608 2014-08-22 13:43:17 <michagogo> Were we wrong back then?
 609 2014-08-22 13:43:20 damethos has joined
 610 2014-08-22 13:43:33 <wumpus> yes, we were wrong
 611 2014-08-22 13:43:38 super3 has joined
 612 2014-08-22 13:44:23 <michagogo> Ah. So what does Qt use OpenSSL for?
 613 2014-08-22 13:44:41 <michagogo> (and why does it not need updating?)
 614 2014-08-22 13:44:42 <wumpus> it's easy to understand: openssl is a c library without implementation in the header files, qt is a library that *uses* openssl, the link-time interface doesn't change between the openssl versions
 615 2014-08-22 13:44:50 <michagogo> Ahh.
 616 2014-08-22 13:45:10 <wumpus> so there is no reason at all that you'd expect qt to change
 617 2014-08-22 13:45:36 <michagogo> (I'm sure that's obvious/intuitive to you, but I'm not really familiar with the whole c world and how stuff like that works...)
 618 2014-08-22 13:45:43 <wumpus> and it doesn't... I always build *everything* on a new release and verify the hashes
 619 2014-08-22 13:46:57 <wumpus> you're free of course to verify if you want to check
 620 2014-08-22 13:47:10 <michagogo> Um.
 621 2014-08-22 13:47:12 <michagogo> Preparing build environment
 622 2014-08-22 13:47:12 <michagogo> ./bin/gbuild:83:in `build_one_configuration': undefined method `exists?' for Dir:Class (NoMethodError)
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 624 2014-08-22 13:48:33 * michagogo checks the gitian-builder history
 625 2014-08-22 13:48:53 <wumpus> strange
 626 2014-08-22 13:49:13 <wumpus> (works for me, but I my last update of gitian was a few days ago)
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 629 2014-08-22 13:50:25 <michagogo> I just pulled
 630 2014-08-22 13:50:36 nullbyte has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
 631 2014-08-22 13:51:28 <michagogo> Looks like that line was added in https://github.com/devrandom/gitian-builder/commit/ea24af1043b964394e7406a3e36e863620939efb
 632 2014-08-22 13:51:42 * michagogo looks up the ruby Dir class
 633 2014-08-22 13:52:12 * michagogo also looks up what version of ruby is in precise
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 639 2014-08-22 13:54:29 <michagogo> Aha
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 641 2014-08-22 13:54:57 <michagogo> Dir.exist[s]? exists in 2.1.2 and not in 1.8.7
 642 2014-08-22 13:55:26 <michagogo> It's also in 1.9.3
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 644 2014-08-22 13:56:11 <wumpus> hm
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 651 2014-08-22 14:02:08 <michagogo> Looks like my pull was ae83ac0..8e907ad
 652 2014-08-22 14:02:20 <michagogo> What's the git command to revert again?
 653 2014-08-22 14:02:45 <michagogo> Not git checkout ae83ac0, that would put me in detached HEAD...
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 656 2014-08-22 14:04:08 <michagogo> Aha
 657 2014-08-22 14:04:09 <michagogo> git reset HEAD@{1}
 658 2014-08-22 14:05:19 <michagogo> Okay, that should fix it for now (after I update the VM and reinstall the guest additions...)
 659 2014-08-22 14:09:42 <wumpus> gitian should really not require a recent ruby version :/
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 663 2014-08-22 14:15:56 <michagogo> I agree
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 666 2014-08-22 14:18:07 <wumpus> I'd assume that older ruby has another way to do Dir.exist
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 668 2014-08-22 14:19:03 <wumpus> hah, that German sniffer node still hasn't given up connecting to me
 669 2014-08-22 14:19:30 <gavinandresen> brew install ruby and then /usr/local/bin/ruby bin/gbuild ../bitcoin/contrib/gitian-descriptors/deps-linux.yml  … is working so far for me on OSX
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 673 2014-08-22 14:21:41 <wumpus> gavinandresen: good to hear
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 682 2014-08-22 14:29:57 <michagogo> gavinandresen: well, I'd assume Homebrew installs new ruby, so there shouldn't be a problem
 683 2014-08-22 14:30:49 <gavinandresen> michagogo: right, what I done did is a workaround, not a fix. gitian shouldn't require a recent ruby version
 684 2014-08-22 14:31:05 <michagogo> Oh, you were on system ruby?
 685 2014-08-22 14:31:15 <gavinandresen> michagogo: yes
 686 2014-08-22 14:31:20 <michagogo> What ruby does os x ship?
 687 2014-08-22 14:31:36 <gavinandresen> OSX 10.8.5 has ruby 1.8.7 (2012-02-08 patchlevel 358) [universal-darwin12.0]
 688 2014-08-22 14:31:48 <gavinandresen> … don't know what 10.9 ships
 689 2014-08-22 14:32:16 <gavinandresen> brew is ruby 2.1.2p95 (2014-05-08 revision 45877) [x86_64-darwin12.0]
 690 2014-08-22 14:32:49 <michagogo> Ah, so in the same boat as Ubuntu
 691 2014-08-22 14:33:13 <michagogo> I could probably install rvm or something to get a newer ruby, but for now reverting those changes should be fine
 692 2014-08-22 14:34:04 <michagogo> Looks like none of it affects building 0.9.3, since it's not using the cache stuff yet
 693 2014-08-22 14:34:27 <michagogo> (and I don't need to use @ in a URL)
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 695 2014-08-22 14:38:03 <jgarzik> wumpus, gavinandresen, sipa, cfields: ping RE  Add more bitcoin-tx tests #4733 https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/4733
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 697 2014-08-22 14:38:57 <wumpus> michagogo: right, 0.9.3 doesn't need a recent gitian
 698 2014-08-22 14:39:07 <wumpus> jgarzik: ACK
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 700 2014-08-22 14:41:22 <wumpus> michagogo: replacing Dir.exists? with File.directory?  should solve the issue too
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 702 2014-08-22 14:49:50 <michagogo> I may not get my build in today... I g2g in ~an hour
 703 2014-08-22 14:50:00 <michagogo> and the VM is still updating
 704 2014-08-22 14:50:29 <michagogo> It seems like every time I use it there's a linux update, and those seem to take a long time... :-/
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 733 2014-08-22 15:31:31 <michagogo> Hopefully I'll get the rc build Saturday night or Sunday...
 734 2014-08-22 15:32:45 <cfields> wumpus: blah, it's trying to build with no descriptor present, heh. Iirc there's a travis option for "don't try to build without a .yml"
 735 2014-08-22 15:33:07 <wumpus> cfields: it's sending me a lot of mails that I broke things :)
 736 2014-08-22 15:33:26 <wumpus> ok let me see
 737 2014-08-22 15:33:36 <cfields> wumpus: heh. probably worth turning that on until the PR is merged then
 738 2014-08-22 15:33:42 <cfields> in fact, i dunno why that wouldn't be the default
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 740 2014-08-22 15:34:03 <wumpus> enabled it
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 742 2014-08-22 15:34:17 <cfields> michagogo: grr, sorry about that. I'm not familiar with ruby
 743 2014-08-22 15:35:03 <wumpus> me neither, but I looked it up, and if you use File.directory? instead of Directory.exists? it'd work portably
 744 2014-08-22 15:35:43 <cfields> ok, will do.
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 746 2014-08-22 15:36:11 <cfields> And agreed, requiring a newer ruby would be senseless, was very unintended.
 747 2014-08-22 15:39:53 <cfields> wumpus: i'll build/sign rc1 in a bit, need to get everything back in place to build the old way
 748 2014-08-22 15:40:21 <wumpus> cfields: I'm fine with keeping depends where it is, really, I don't think there's a large chance someone will use it accidentally
 749 2014-08-22 15:40:36 <wumpus> unixy people are used to autogen/configure/make, and will just use that
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 752 2014-08-22 15:41:03 <cfields> wumpus: i really don't care either way
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 754 2014-08-22 15:41:44 <cfields> wumpus: agreed. If i'd never built it before, I'd autogen/configure, and if it broke, i'd look for some build instructions
 755 2014-08-22 15:41:59 <cfields> i think that's probably what most unixy people would do as well
 756 2014-08-22 15:42:04 <wumpus> and the build instruction for unix wouldn't mention it, so that's ok
 757 2014-08-22 15:42:24 <wumpus> you wouldn't just go into depends and hit make, and if you do, well, it works... :p
 758 2014-08-22 15:42:53 <cfields> that being said, I do want to document all aspects of the new depends/gitian/travis stuff better, I'm just really not sure how to do it from a high-level
 759 2014-08-22 15:43:40 <cfields> I thought about it some this morning. How about a doc that traces through what happens when a dependency is changed, how/why it works, and what it affects?
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 761 2014-08-22 15:44:49 <wumpus> that sounds useful
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 765 2014-08-22 15:46:00 <cfields> jgarzik: thanks, will have a look
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 771 2014-08-22 15:57:35 <jgarzik> gavinandresen, Working on this doc describing the overall development process: https://github.com/jgarzik/bitcoin/blob/2014_process_doc/doc/devel-process.md
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 773 2014-08-22 15:58:01 <jgarzik> It will cover some basic open source concepts as well as bitcoin-specific details of github, PRs, ACKs.
 774 2014-08-22 15:58:23 <jgarzik> Sadly, based on criticism of the dev process, I think many in the bitcoin community simply don't understand open source in general.
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 777 2014-08-22 16:01:08 <hearn> jgarzik: i've criticised the dev process and i understand open source just fine, thanks
 778 2014-08-22 16:03:28 <Luke-Jr> jgarzik: looks incomplete
 779 2014-08-22 16:04:15 <Luke-Jr> hearn: I don't think he was talking about your criticism specifically
 780 2014-08-22 16:04:36 <hearn> that could be
 781 2014-08-22 16:04:46 <hearn> certainly lots of people who use bitcoin have never been exposed to open source projects before
 782 2014-08-22 16:05:20 <Luke-Jr> hearn: a lot of the criticism is along the lines of demanding we do X and Y for them
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 789 2014-08-22 16:08:12 <jgarzik> Luke-Jr, it is incomplete
 790 2014-08-22 16:08:29 <jgarzik> hearn, nobody was referring you, Mr. Sensitive.  We are all aware you know open source.
 791 2014-08-22 16:08:31 <jgarzik> :)
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 793 2014-08-22 16:08:39 <hearn> ok, sorry, i take it back
 794 2014-08-22 16:08:53 <hearn> a document for people who aren't developers would be great :)
 795 2014-08-22 16:09:02 <jgarzik> hearn, yep, that is the general target
 796 2014-08-22 16:09:31 * hearn has been fiddling with windows all and it made him grumpy
 797 2014-08-22 16:09:38 <hearn> (at least that's my excuse)
 798 2014-08-22 16:09:40 <jgarzik> hearn, Devs generally don't need a general open source introduction
 799 2014-08-22 16:10:10 <jgarzik> hearn, Maybe it's inappropriate for checking into bitcoin/bitcoin.git versus a medium post or somesuch, but I felt it would be useful to check in.
 800 2014-08-22 16:10:23 <jgarzik> the sections on ACKs, PRs, pull testing, etc. remain to be written
 801 2014-08-22 16:10:28 <jgarzik> current is just general introduction
 802 2014-08-22 16:10:54 <jgarzik> there will be a section on BIP process too; just an overview, with pointers to BIP 1 etc.
 803 2014-08-22 16:11:23 <jgarzik> the idea is to give readers an understanding of how bitcoin dev works and how they might contribute
 804 2014-08-22 16:11:24 <hearn> ok, sure
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 852 2014-08-22 17:31:51 <espringe> I need to programmatically send a largish volume of bitcoin transactions -- and can't find a decent way to do it
 853 2014-08-22 17:32:01 <espringe> I'm looking for a program or service that will resend failed transactions
 854 2014-08-22 17:32:22 <espringe> I've tried a bunch of wallet software, but run into big issues with running out of outputs
 855 2014-08-22 17:32:23 Tebbo has joined
 856 2014-08-22 17:32:45 <espringe> Basically each transaction is spending from 1 or more outputs ... but creating 0 or 1 change addresses
 857 2014-08-22 17:33:07 <espringe> So very quickly I run out of confirmed outputs, but have lots of money
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 861 2014-08-22 17:40:37 <jgarzik> espringe, yes, you need to wait or have a buffer.  In general, I worry about software that just blasts out transactions, because that's an easy way to irreversibly lose funds, if you're not careful.
 862 2014-08-22 17:40:46 <jgarzik> MtGox seemed to be doing something similar
 863 2014-08-22 17:41:05 <espringe> jgarzik: Yeah, I know -- I'm looking to use some software that does that for me
 864 2014-08-22 17:41:11 <espringe> as opposed to doing it myself
 865 2014-08-22 17:41:40 <espringe> I just want to blast out transactions, and have someone elses code baby-sit it for me
 866 2014-08-22 17:42:32 <espringe> Baby-sitting transactions, and creating spendable outputs is such a pain in the ass to manage
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 871 2014-08-22 17:48:30 <sturles> espringe: How many outputs per transaction?
 872 2014-08-22 17:48:36 <espringe> 1
 873 2014-08-22 17:48:39 <sturles> Why?
 874 2014-08-22 17:48:43 <espringe> + the change address
 875 2014-08-22 17:48:49 <espringe> Because I'm sending someone some money
 876 2014-08-22 17:49:05 <sturles> That's your problem right there.  Send many people money in one tx.
 877 2014-08-22 17:49:23 <espringe> I want to send immediately
 878 2014-08-22 17:49:25 <espringe> and not batch them
 879 2014-08-22 17:49:47 <espringe> Plus, even if I batch them -- is there software that does what I need?
 880 2014-08-22 17:50:25 <sturles> You must be able to batch a few if you send so quickly you are running out of confirmed change?
 881 2014-08-22 17:50:37 <sturles> I use bitcoind sendmany..
 882 2014-08-22 17:50:41 <espringe> I *could* but I don't want to
 883 2014-08-22 17:50:57 <espringe> And I still have the resending issue to deal with
 884 2014-08-22 17:51:06 <sturles> Saves fees as well.
 885 2014-08-22 17:51:16 <espringe> I don't really care about saving fees
 886 2014-08-22 17:51:20 <espringe> Not important for me
 887 2014-08-22 17:52:28 <sturles> Is resending a real problem?  Tried to add more fees?  If you run out of confirmed change, you are probably using young coins as well.  Your tx will have low priority.
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 889 2014-08-22 17:53:03 <espringe> Yeah, I'm using very young coins
 890 2014-08-22 17:53:40 <espringe> Even if I add more fees, I'd like some software that babysits the transaction until it hits the blockchain
 891 2014-08-22 17:53:46 <espringe> I don't want to just fire-and-forget
 892 2014-08-22 17:55:02 <sturles> Watching it is easy.  Resending is where you need to be careful.
 893 2014-08-22 17:55:39 <sturles> And it shouldn't be an issue if you use mature outputs and enough fees.
 894 2014-08-22 17:55:41 <espringe> Thanks bro. That's why I asked about some software to do for me, rather than roll my own
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 896 2014-08-22 17:56:25 <sturles> Is resending a real problem?  I mean, have you ever needed it if sending with enough fees?
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 898 2014-08-22 17:56:36 <espringe> Yeah, it is
 899 2014-08-22 17:56:40 yubrew has joined
 900 2014-08-22 17:56:59 <espringe> I switched to coinbase API in the mean time, which is working really well
 901 2014-08-22 17:57:04 <espringe> But I really want to get off them
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 908 2014-08-22 18:05:07 <Emcy> bitcoind rpc can do it
 909 2014-08-22 18:05:08 <Emcy> i beleive
 910 2014-08-22 18:05:35 <Emcy> but exchanges have done it before and lost lots of money
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 932 2014-08-22 18:30:16 <cfields> gavinandresen: ping
 933 2014-08-22 18:30:29 <gmaxwell> w/dinw o6
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 935 2014-08-22 18:31:04 <gavinandresen> cfields: whazzup
 936 2014-08-22 18:31:09 <cfields> gavinandresen: i'm adding a fallback download path that the deps builder can use in case the upstream url is busted. Is there a good stable place for us to host them?
 937 2014-08-22 18:31:44 <cfields> http://bitcoincore.org/something ?
 938 2014-08-22 18:31:56 <gavinandresen> cfields: https://bitcoincore.org/something would be good
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 940 2014-08-22 18:32:43 <cfields> mm, looks like https is hooked up too. is that reliable?
 941 2014-08-22 18:33:01 <gavinandresen> yes, unless "we" forget to renew the SSL cert.
 942 2014-08-22 18:33:33 <cfields> ok. https://bitcoincore.org/depends-sources/* it is
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 944 2014-08-22 18:34:13 <cfields> thanks
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 946 2014-08-22 18:34:45 <cfields> oh, heh, i didn't catch that you suggested https anyway
 947 2014-08-22 18:40:50 <andytoshi> hi, is it just me is it impossible to construct a script for which script.cpp:843 `scriptCode.FindAndDelete(CScript(vchSig));` has any effect?
 948 2014-08-22 18:41:33 <andytoshi> well, you can construct a script where that line changes what's hashed by OP_CHECKSIG....but it's impossible to do this with a correct signature, so the checksig is guaranteed to fail regardless
 949 2014-08-22 18:42:00 <gmaxwell> petertodd: ^
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 951 2014-08-22 18:42:52 <andytoshi> because at this point, scriptCode contains only data from the outpoint's scriptPubKey. this entire scriptPubKey contributes to the txid of the outpoint, which is guaranteed to be signed regardless of sighashtype
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 953 2014-08-22 18:43:38 <andytoshi> so the sig can't be valid -and- appear in the scriptPubKey to be deleted, since it'd be effectively signing itself
 954 2014-08-22 18:43:46 <gmaxwell> okay, seems he isn't around.
 955 2014-08-22 18:43:48 <gmaxwell> andytoshi: see 5df1375ffe61ac35ca178ebb0cab9ea26dedbd0e96005dfcee7e379fa513232f
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 975 2014-08-22 19:01:49 <ben_vulpes> i've just installed bitcoind on a vps, ran bitcoind --datadir=/ssd/mount/point --daemon
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 977 2014-08-22 19:02:35 <ben_vulpes> bitcoin-cli getblockcount shows a number increasing upwards, but there aren't new blocks showing up in /ssd/mount/point/bitcoin/blocks
 978 2014-08-22 19:02:46 <ben_vulpes> (--datadir=/ssd/mount/point/bitcoin, i mean)
 979 2014-08-22 19:03:35 <ben_vulpes> so blk00001 is not the actual block but a berkleydb file?
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 981 2014-08-22 19:04:21 <gmaxwell> the flag is -datadir not --datadir
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 983 2014-08-22 19:06:25 <Luke-Jr> ben_vulpes: blk00001.dat is a concatenated blob of blocks
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 985 2014-08-22 19:06:42 <ben_vulpes> thanks Luke-Jr, that's the confirmation i was looking for.
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 987 2014-08-22 19:07:04 <ben_vulpes> thanks gmaxwell. bitcoind didn't complain, and it seems to be writing to the correct location.
 988 2014-08-22 19:07:33 <gmaxwell> you seemed to just be saying "there aren't new blocks showing up in {path}"
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 990 2014-08-22 19:07:55 <jgarzik> gmaxwell, "--" started working recently
 991 2014-08-22 19:08:05 <gmaxwell> oh thats good.
 992 2014-08-22 19:08:05 <jgarzik> gmaxwell, --namedoption
 993 2014-08-22 19:10:28 <ben_vulpes> gmaxwell: i was confused about what BLK* on disk meant in the context of a bitcoin block.
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1003 2014-08-22 19:19:49 <andytoshi> gmaxwell: i got it, thx
1004 2014-08-22 19:20:19 <andytoshi> (took me a bit to put a standalone script tracer into wizards-wallet so i could read the p2sh)
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1150 2014-08-22 22:14:30 <petertodd> andytoshi: with the SIGHASH_SINGLE bug you can. I added a bunch of test cases for that a two or three months ago
1151 2014-08-22 22:15:12 <andytoshi> oh, shit, i should've seen that
1152 2014-08-22 22:15:15 <andytoshi> good call, thx
1153 2014-08-22 22:15:40 <petertodd> elichai2: re: replace-by-fee-tools, you need your local bitcoind to have the replace-by-fee patch
1154 2014-08-22 22:16:06 <andytoshi> wait...with the sighash_single bug the hash you're signing is always 0000...0001, it doesn't matter what search-and-replacing you do on the script before that
1155 2014-08-22 22:16:17 <petertodd> andytoshi: multisig
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1157 2014-08-22 22:17:14 <andytoshi> gotcha
1158 2014-08-22 22:17:20 <andytoshi> damn, that's tricky
1159 2014-08-22 22:17:22 <petertodd> andytoshi: also, edge cases in badly done alt implementations
1160 2014-08-22 22:17:27 <petertodd> andytoshi: consensus critical is a bitch
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1179 2014-08-22 22:49:09 <phantomcircuit> petertodd, lol so this is fun
1180 2014-08-22 22:49:22 <phantomcircuit> nominal 64Gh/s chip, diff=1
1181 2014-08-22 22:50:04 <phantomcircuit> 60 seconds == 90% confidence observed hashrate is +-10% actual
1182 2014-08-22 22:50:13 <phantomcircuit> 600 seconds == 98.5% confidence observed hashrate is +-10% actual
1183 2014-08-22 22:50:37 <phantomcircuit> 99% observed is +-1% ?
1184 2014-08-22 22:50:39 <phantomcircuit> like
1185 2014-08-22 22:50:40 <phantomcircuit> forever
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1194 2014-08-22 23:11:08 <cfields> BlueMatt: ping
1195 2014-08-22 23:11:29 <BlueMatt> cfields: pong
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1197 2014-08-22 23:11:40 <cfields> BlueMatt: what would be the preferred way of moving files to our host from travis? scp?
1198 2014-08-22 23:11:55 <BlueMatt> i dont manage bitcoincore.org, ask gavinandresen, probably
1199 2014-08-22 23:12:38 <cfields> ok. gavinandresen:  ^^ to you, then
1200 2014-08-22 23:13:13 <gavinandresen> scp works, unless you can think of something better. Probably want a 'travis' login with its own ssh key and limited privileges
1201 2014-08-22 23:14:05 <BlueMatt> chroot it and only let it run sftp
1202 2014-08-22 23:14:22 <cfields> gavinandresen: well the only other thing i could think of would be rsync (over ssh, even), to allow travis to delete old stuff
1203 2014-08-22 23:14:35 <gavinandresen> will it be the travis machine scp'ing TO bitcoincore.org, or the other way around?
1204 2014-08-22 23:14:35 <cfields> depending on which side you'd rather have in charge of deleting/rotating
1205 2014-08-22 23:14:36 <BlueMatt> you can delete over sftp, its just not fun
1206 2014-08-22 23:15:00 <BlueMatt> probably let travis into a chroot jail and then let bitcoincore.org rotate/delete
1207 2014-08-22 23:15:00 <cfields> gavinandresen: to
1208 2014-08-22 23:15:15 <BlueMatt> (that ssh can be kept private, correct?)
1209 2014-08-22 23:15:25 <cfields> yea
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1211 2014-08-22 23:16:13 <cfields> BlueMatt: i was thinking we could setup a github hook that runs when a PR is closed. at that point, nuke the assets associated
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1213 2014-08-22 23:16:49 <cfields> dunno if that's worth the effort over just keeping X results
1214 2014-08-22 23:16:55 <BlueMatt> no, people open pulls to download the binaries...
1215 2014-08-22 23:17:01 <BlueMatt> just keep X
1216 2014-08-22 23:17:20 <cfields> yep, good point
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1218 2014-08-22 23:17:56 <cfields> ok, nothing needed for now, just wanted to be sure that assuming scp (or similar) was reasonable
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1221 2014-08-22 23:24:50 <extor> Can someone recommend an open source member management script similar to this one, but one which supports BTC as wass as paypal? http://dwalker.co.uk/phpautomembersarea/phpama-downloads/
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1224 2014-08-22 23:26:02 <gavinandresen> cfields: I'm getting an error gitian-building 0.9.3rc1 OSX release:
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1226 2014-08-22 23:26:28 <gavinandresen> cfields: creating cmake, tells me: make: g++: Command not found
1227 2014-08-22 23:27:07 <gavinandresen> cfields: I'm guessing my VM base image is missing something it is supposed to have; is g++ part of the base precise install?
1228 2014-08-22 23:27:34 <cfields> gavinandresen: trying to make cmake? like from the new depends?
1229 2014-08-22 23:27:41 <gavinandresen> sorry, making qmake
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1231 2014-08-22 23:28:31 <cfields> oh, heh. yea, that's part of build-essential.
1232 2014-08-22 23:28:41 <cfields> not sure how you would've gotten as far as qt without g++ though?
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1235 2014-08-22 23:29:04 <gavinandresen> cfields: building the dependencies worked.....
1236 2014-08-22 23:29:57 <cfields> gavinandresen: what's special about your setup? You're using a premade vm?
1237 2014-08-22 23:30:12 <cfields> anything else?
1238 2014-08-22 23:30:40 <gavinandresen> VirtualBox VMs, host is my OSX 10.8.5 box
1239 2014-08-22 23:31:05 <gavinandresen> I don't see how I managed to build the dependencies without g++…..
1240 2014-08-22 23:31:49 <cfields> gavinandresen: could you snip the last part of the build log and paste it?
1241 2014-08-22 23:32:40 <gavinandresen> cfields: whole build.log is :   http://pastebin.com/dT2TJrjN
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1243 2014-08-22 23:33:11 <cfields> thanks, looking
1244 2014-08-22 23:33:41 <cfields> btw, your build pains should go away with the gitian descriptors overhaul. a pre-rolled image should work fine there
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1248 2014-08-22 23:35:13 <cfields> "-o libtest.so -shared ..."
1249 2014-08-22 23:35:25 <cfields> looks like CXX is being actively set to empty somehow
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1251 2014-08-22 23:37:42 <gavinandresen> cfields: I'm running plain-old: /usr/local/bin/ruby bin/gbuild ../bitcoin/contrib/gitian-descriptors/gitian-osx-qt.yml
1252 2014-08-22 23:39:07 <gavinandresen> cfields: … verified that ../bitcoin is HEAD detached at v0.9.3rc1
1253 2014-08-22 23:39:10 <cfields> gavinandresen: what version of ruby? about all i can think of is that it's being parsed differently somehow
1254 2014-08-22 23:39:29 <gavinandresen> ruby 2.1.2p95 (2014-05-08 revision 45877) [x86_64-darwin12.0]
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1256 2014-08-22 23:39:38 <cfields> built fine for me. dunno if wumpus had any trouble, but ours matched up
1257 2014-08-22 23:39:41 <gavinandresen> gitian-builder is top-of-trunk
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1259 2014-08-22 23:39:55 <cfields> let me grab that and try, sec
1260 2014-08-22 23:40:20 <cfields> from homebrew, right?
1261 2014-08-22 23:40:29 <gavinandresen> cfields: weird.  I'm about to head in to the office, I'll try to build there (need to sign the binaries there).
1262 2014-08-22 23:40:42 <cfields> ok
1263 2014-08-22 23:40:43 <gavinandresen> cfields: yes, that ruby is from brew install ruby
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