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146 2014-08-23 04:18:17 <kdomanski> sipa: do you have a windows build box? I'm trying to get rid of boost thread and I already reimplemented mutexes and locks in POSIX, but I have no means of building the windows code
147 2014-08-23 04:20:26 <gmaxwell> kdomanski: you cross compile for windows using mingw see the gitian scripts.
148 2014-08-23 04:20:43 <gmaxwell> (and you can test the result under wine, at least for basic testing)
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154 2014-08-23 04:28:50 <kdomanski> gmaxwell: ah, thanks
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180 2014-08-23 05:30:24 <wumpus> cfields: I had no problems
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182 2014-08-23 05:30:50 <cfields> wumpus: he got it worked out, it was his base vm
183 2014-08-23 05:32:42 <wumpus> cfields: did the version string ever reflect rc status?
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185 2014-08-23 05:33:33 <cfields> wumpus: not sure, planning to look into it this weekend/mon
186 2014-08-23 05:33:37 <wumpus> afaik not, at least when I look at the recent logs we don't do version bumps between rcs
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188 2014-08-23 05:34:42 <wumpus> the only thing I could think of to get an 'rc' into the displayed version is to set the suffix to somethig else than -beta, but we never did that
189 2014-08-23 05:34:48 <wumpus> yeah no hurry
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191 2014-08-23 05:35:38 <wumpus> we can still identify versions using the git hash, so it's not high priority in any case
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204 2014-08-23 05:52:49 <theymos> There is an ad slot available on bitcointalk.org because someone in the auction didn't pay. These slots last for at least 7 days (but usually more) and nowadays always get more than 1 million impressions. They typically sell for 2.5-3.5 BTC, but you can have this slot for 0.75 BTC. However, I will need your ad text (which can include limited HTML, but no images) within the next 30 minutes, and you w
205 2014-08-23 05:52:49 <theymos> ill not be able to change your ad once I accept it. Anyone interested?
206 2014-08-23 05:53:35 <theymos> See here for more info: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=715267.0 . Note that I am logged in, and I will PGP-sign something if you are worried about my identity. (Phishing forum advertisers is unfortunately very common.)
207 2014-08-23 05:54:56 Namworld has quit ()
208 2014-08-23 05:55:22 <theymos> Whoops, wrong channel. I meant to post that to bitcoin-otc. Sorry.
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301 2014-08-23 09:07:06 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell/forrestv: does p2pool fast-relay blocks that it didnt generated (ie is it worth while to make sure there is a run_p2pool running without miners on something connected to the relay network?)
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303 2014-08-23 09:11:01 <gmaxwell> BlueMatt: it does not, IIRC.
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314 2014-08-23 09:36:40 <sipa> kdomanski: heh, we switched the synchronization code from pthread/windows to boost thread a long time ago in order not to need to maintain twonstacks...
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319 2014-08-23 09:46:52 <wumpus> we're definitely not going to get rid of boost threads
320 2014-08-23 09:47:30 <wumpus> well, that is, until c++ provides its own threading functionality, as it does with c++11
321 2014-08-23 09:47:46 <wumpus> but there will be no roll-your-own threading code in bitcoin core
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323 2014-08-23 09:48:38 <wumpus> we spent ages getting rid of all satoshi's poorly-implemented wrappers, resist the NIH syndrome please
324 2014-08-23 09:50:29 <gmaxwell> what kdomanski was doing before was in service of facilitating an eventual shift from boost to C++ things, so I assumed this was just somehow more of that. :)
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326 2014-08-23 09:52:58 <wumpus> the major reason we use boost is because c++ doesn't provide the functionality itself
327 2014-08-23 09:53:06 <wumpus> if it did, we wouldn't be using boost
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329 2014-08-23 09:53:58 <gmaxwell> Right, but C++11 changes most of that, and — eventually, I presume, we'll move to that.
330 2014-08-23 09:54:22 <wumpus> agreed fully, but that doesn't mean we should be wasting time maintaining our own platform compatibility wrappers in the mean time
331 2014-08-23 09:56:31 <gmaxwell> Right. I dunno what kdomanski was doing there perhaps it was just a trial "boost free version" not meant for merging, but just identifying the issues.
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333 2014-08-23 10:01:46 <sipa> what kdomanski is doing is trying to get rid of the boost dependency in libbitcoinscript
334 2014-08-23 10:02:38 <sipa> which seems reasonable, but imho it should just be done by making the locking-depending parts optional or not in the modules needed for scripting
335 2014-08-23 10:02:56 <sipa> as there should be need for it to access any threading or locking for that
336 2014-08-23 10:03:49 <wumpus> right - it would be preferable to write the scripting code so that it doesn't depend on the os at all
337 2014-08-23 10:04:06 <wumpus> no threading either through boost or the os directly
338 2014-08-23 10:04:14 <sipa> exactly
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340 2014-08-23 10:06:42 <gmaxwell> it should only now do to funny hiddden side effects, AFAIR
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347 2014-08-23 10:12:43 <sipa> it may mean that for something like signature caching we need dynamic binding; have an interface that just exposes a cache, and use a dummy in libbitcoinscript and the fully-featured synchronization-aware one inside the full validation code
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349 2014-08-23 10:15:02 <wumpus> right, could have the client pass in an interface handle
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351 2014-08-23 10:16:41 War_Panda is now known as bitcoiner
352 2014-08-23 10:16:59 <wumpus> and libbitcoinscript would pass in a dummy, and the full validation code would pass in an a real implementation
353 2014-08-23 10:17:17 <sipa> exactly
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355 2014-08-23 10:18:03 <wumpus> so it's at least possible to do everything in a stateless and side-effect-less way, at the expense of performance
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357 2014-08-23 10:26:27 <kdomanski> wumpus: huh, I've been thinking of a dual stack drop-in replacement interface-compatible with C++11 facilities - easy enough for pthread, buf if you say no then no
358 2014-08-23 10:26:50 <wumpus> kdomanski: I don't see the point, isn't that exactly what boost is doing already?
359 2014-08-23 10:27:47 <wumpus> I must admit I've never looked at the details, but from what I've heard boost::thread is pretty much a drop-in replacement for c++11's threading facilities
360 2014-08-23 10:28:55 <kdomanski> wumpus: I was convinced not using boost is in this case better than using boost
361 2014-08-23 10:29:08 <wumpus> I'm not convinced of that
362 2014-08-23 10:29:33 <sipa> i think that having less dependencies is better than having more, all other things aside
363 2014-08-23 10:29:48 <wumpus> but not at the expense of importing all those dependencies in our code
364 2014-08-23 10:29:52 <wumpus> please...
365 2014-08-23 10:30:05 <sipa> and if we can restructure things so that libbitcoinscript has a dependency less, that's great
366 2014-08-23 10:30:19 <sipa> but not by duplicating things - just by not depending on what we don't need
367 2014-08-23 10:30:31 <wumpus> right, doing duplicate work is a waste of time
368 2014-08-23 10:30:44 <sipa> libbitcoinscript shouldn't be doing any threading or locking at all - so let's make sure it compiles without needing those
369 2014-08-23 10:30:54 <sipa> in theory that must be possible
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371 2014-08-23 10:32:16 <wumpus> boost is used by a lot of different projects so it should be well-tested code, in general.. .sure, some of their things suck, but that doesn't necessarily mean that we need to re-do them
372 2014-08-23 10:33:23 <kdomanski> understood
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374 2014-08-23 10:38:46 <wumpus> ideally I'd like to minimize the amount of OS-specific code in bitcoin core
375 2014-08-23 10:39:09 <kdomanski> wumpus: one thing that won't work out with C++11 threads - they don't have builtin interruption mechanism like boost::this_thread::interruption_point()
376 2014-08-23 10:39:23 luktgf has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
377 2014-08-23 10:39:33 <wumpus> almost all the os-specific code that exists right now has to do with networking
378 2014-08-23 10:39:41 <wumpus> kdomanski: thanks for researching that, seems like a real issue
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380 2014-08-23 10:40:17 <kdomanski> wumpus: I discovered it that time when I've been rewriting everything to c++11
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382 2014-08-23 10:41:06 <wumpus> kdomanski: I've always wondered how their interruption mechanism is implemented, sure, it's just a flag, but what if an interruption point is hit? it raises an exception I suppose to clean up, which is catched by the thread spawner?
383 2014-08-23 10:41:28 <wumpus> at least that's how python's similar mechanism works
384 2014-08-23 10:41:50 <wumpus> brb
385 2014-08-23 10:42:39 <sipa> wumpus: interruption_point raises an exception indeed
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387 2014-08-23 10:43:48 <gmaxwell> yuck
388 2014-08-23 10:44:07 <kdomanski> wumpus: maybe I'll start maintaining a C++11 branch permanently in sync with master
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446 2014-08-23 12:38:47 <wumpus> kdomanski: that's fine; I think we can aim to switch to c++11 after 0.10 is released 
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448 2014-08-23 12:39:29 <wumpus> not sure though, breaking compatibility with compiling on older systems is going to get a lot of pushback
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471 2014-08-23 13:28:40 <Luke-Jr> yeah… people should always be able to easily build BCCore themselves on the latest Fedora/Debian…
472 2014-08-23 13:29:03 <Luke-Jr> sadly, I think that means C++11 is a few years off
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495 2014-08-23 14:00:03 <wumpus> right, certainly if we insist on complete c++11 support then it will take quite a long time before it leaks into stable distributions...
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508 2014-08-23 14:38:38 <kdomanski> Luke-Jr: which one latest distribution won't compile with C++11 stdlib ?
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512 2014-08-23 14:47:35 <Luke-Jr> kdomanski: Debian is at GCC 4.7.2 and libc 2.13; RH is at GCC 4.4.7 and libc 2.12; Gentoo is at GCC 4.7.3 and libc 2.19
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514 2014-08-23 14:50:37 <Luke-Jr> kdomanski: and bleeding edge GCC isn't C++11 complete yet even today
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527 2014-08-23 15:01:13 <PRab> I hear that the getinfo RPC is going to be depreciated, so in that case, which RPC would be the best to add a human readable version string?
528 2014-08-23 15:01:19 Aido_ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
529 2014-08-23 15:02:44 <PRab> right now, getinfo.version returns "90201", but I want something like "bitcoind v0.9.2.1"
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531 2014-08-23 15:04:02 <PRab> My main problem is there is no way to tell bitcoind from btcd via the RPC (That I know of)
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537 2014-08-23 15:16:53 <jgarzik> huh
538 2014-08-23 15:17:00 chax has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
539 2014-08-23 15:17:09 <jgarzik> my public node's bitcoind is suddenly averaging 600MB RSS rather than 800MB
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541 2014-08-23 15:17:46 <jgarzik> same average number of connections, 30-40
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551 2014-08-23 15:35:52 <wumpus> PRab: getversioninfo?
552 2014-08-23 15:38:27 <wumpus> jgarzik: interesting; could be due to #4675
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556 2014-08-23 15:46:28 <kdomanski> kdomanski: and bleeding edge GCC isn't C++11 complete yet even today << yeah, garbage collection is missing
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559 2014-08-23 15:52:04 <kdomanski> Luke-Jr: so Gentoo has all we need
560 2014-08-23 15:52:15 <kdomanski> Luke-Jr: and you're not looking at the latest RH
561 2014-08-23 15:52:28 <kdomanski> Luke-Jr: there's just the matter of Debian
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565 2014-08-23 15:55:05 <wumpus> but we don't need "c++11 complete" so let's not let that distract us
566 2014-08-23 15:55:56 <kdomanski>  wumpus: my thoughts exactly
567 2014-08-23 15:55:58 <wumpus> we just need to determine a realistic set of c++11 features that can be used
568 2014-08-23 15:56:56 * Adlai has to deal with C++11 compatibility issues at work, is there a way to be helpful here?
569 2014-08-23 15:57:06 <Adlai> (totally unfamiliar with the bitcoind codebase though)
570 2014-08-23 15:57:44 <kdomanski> wumpus: C++11 facilities are introduced in glibc 2.16
571 2014-08-23 15:58:05 <kdomanski> wumpus: range-based for in gcc 4.6
572 2014-08-23 15:58:19 <kdomanski> wumpus: move semantics in gcc 4.3
573 2014-08-23 15:58:26 <wumpus> gcc 4.6 is also sort-of the minimum that we support
574 2014-08-23 15:58:46 <kdomanski> wumpus: I don't see an immediate necessity for anything more
575 2014-08-23 15:59:18 <kdomanski> so Debian is the only obstacle in the way
576 2014-08-23 15:59:43 <wumpus> ah, no, we support 4.4.3 on linux
577 2014-08-23 15:59:57 <wumpus> 'GCC':     (4,4,0), 'CXXABI':  (1,3,3), 'GLIBCXX': (3,4,13), 'GLIBC':   (2,11)  for the releases
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579 2014-08-23 16:00:35 <wumpus> then again that's not fixed forever, just for now
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583 2014-08-23 16:10:35 <kdomanski> wumpus: whoa, this means we can have move semantics and initializer lists right now
584 2014-08-23 16:11:44 <kdomanski> wumpus: and deletion of copy constructors and strongly typed enums
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587 2014-08-23 16:18:25 <PRab> wumpus: Would that be a new RPC? Right now that returns "error: {"code":-32601,"message":"Method not found"}"
588 2014-08-23 16:20:31 <Luke-Jr> kdomanski: RHEL 6 is the latest RH
589 2014-08-23 16:20:56 <Luke-Jr> kdomanski: and I'm not clear on what you mean there at all - Gentoo is only one bugfix release up from Debian…
590 2014-08-23 16:21:37 <kdomanski> Luke-Jr: uhm, no, it isn't
591 2014-08-23 16:21:53 <Luke-Jr> no? *double checks*
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593 2014-08-23 16:22:16 <Luke-Jr> oh, RHEL 7 is out already :o
594 2014-08-23 16:22:23 <Luke-Jr> 4.8.2 there I guess
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596 2014-08-23 16:23:27 <kdomanski> Luke-Jr: we do not need complete C++11 featureset, first and foremost we need C++11 facilities in stdlib, which were introduced in glibc 2.16
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600 2014-08-23 16:25:22 <kdomanski> unless you feel like you don't want to replace boost::mutex with std::mutex unless you also have bidirectional memory fences and alignment support
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602 2014-08-23 16:26:26 <Luke-Jr> meh, as long as it builds on stable distros
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627 2014-08-23 17:04:31 <jgarzik> michagogo, ping.  Do you have sha1/sha256 for latest bootstrap.dat @ 313000?
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631 2014-08-23 17:13:00 <joedoe-> I am trying to cross-compile bitcoin-qt.exe using linux without gitian. googled and found same issues however without a solution. here's someone else paste with same error: http://pastebin.com/Z5RZXZEW
632 2014-08-23 17:13:06 graingert has joined
633 2014-08-23 17:13:14 <joedoe-> (DB cross-compilation issue)
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636 2014-08-23 17:13:47 <joedoe-> (I base on gitian yamls)
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640 2014-08-23 17:17:46 <joedoe-> well I removed second declaration and it goes fine...
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644 2014-08-23 17:26:07 <joedoe-> and now threads mess, anyone was dealing with cross-compilation last time? :)
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665 2014-08-23 18:04:08 <joedoe-> where can I download boost-mingw-gas-cross-compile-2013-03-03.patch from?
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668 2014-08-23 18:09:56 <joedoe-> nevermind, google did not help, reading yaml carefuly did
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748 2014-08-23 19:45:25 <TheRelic> hello, is there anyone here who knows python/django and has worked with the bitcoinrpc?
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765 2014-08-23 20:13:24 <jgarzik> Pre-seeding blockchain torrent (22.5 GB) at http://gtf.org/garzik/bitcoin/bootstrap.dat.torrent
766 2014-08-23 20:14:31 <fuzion24> can you dynamically add files to a tracker?
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769 2014-08-23 20:17:29 <jgarzik> fuzion24, tracker yes, torrent no
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786 2014-08-23 20:40:34 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: thats a shame :(
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788 2014-08-23 20:41:11 <BlueMatt> GM0127: change your nick, you're hurting my gm->tab autocomplete-fu :(
789 2014-08-23 20:41:40 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: is it worth running a run_p2pool instance on a relay node (or close to one) in any case?
790 2014-08-23 20:45:57 <gmaxwell> BlueMatt: yes, I think you should, and advertise that you do so that people running p2pool can manually peer with it.
791 2014-08-23 20:48:02 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: whats the memory requirements for a run_p2pool w/o mining on it?
792 2014-08-23 20:49:24 <gmaxwell> well, with mining on it, looks like about 380mbytes.
793 2014-08-23 20:52:18 paveljanik has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
794 2014-08-23 20:52:27 <BlueMatt> ugh
795 2014-08-23 20:52:39 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: any idea about peak?
796 2014-08-23 20:52:41 <BlueMatt> is that current
797 2014-08-23 20:53:43 GM0127 has quit (Quit: Leaving)
798 2014-08-23 20:54:16 <gmaxwell> Thats what I'm using currently, it's also fairly similar to the peak. IIRC.
799 2014-08-23 20:59:24 <BlueMatt> forrestv: ^
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802 2014-08-23 21:03:30 <gmaxwell> ::sigh:: at the insanity of the bitcoin world. Random people histerical about zomg centeralization because matt has a relay network you can connect to; meanwhile people on bitcoin developement who've never even compiled the code are very concerned that we might try to be a little less dependant on github.
803 2014-08-23 21:03:59 neozaru has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
804 2014-08-23 21:04:07 <gmaxwell> Incidentally, is anyone mirroring the issues and pull text from github? Past expirence is that you cannot get that data when their legal department goes brain-damaged and shuts off access to your repos.
805 2014-08-23 21:05:00 yubrew has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
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807 2014-08-23 21:05:33 <PRab> gmaxwell: I'm not worried about being less dependent on github. I just want it to remain an up-to-date option.
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809 2014-08-23 21:06:49 <gmaxwell> PRab: There is no problem with that, though the authentication is pretty bad, but I suppose that doesn't matter if you're just reading things.
810 2014-08-23 21:07:27 <PRab> gmaxwell: My concern is that if it wasn't as easy for me to look at pull request and the commit log, that would be 1 less set of eyes reviewing the code.
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812 2014-08-23 21:07:56 <PRab> Granted, not a through review, but anyone can catch something.
813 2014-08-23 21:08:43 <gmaxwell> PRab: in theory we could make it a lot easier, as far as review goes github is very poor compared to gerrit in basically everyone's opinion whos used both... But sure there is no problem mirroring data.
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815 2014-08-23 21:09:10 <gmaxwell> Github has basically non-existant security and nearly mandates bad security practices... though we've worked around some of it with the github-merge script.
816 2014-08-23 21:09:40 <PRab> I've never used gerrit and  would be willing to take a look.
817 2014-08-23 21:10:56 <PRab> I haven't been able to locally reproduce an equivalent of Github's network graph.
818 2014-08-23 21:10:59 <hearn> well, github at least has two factor authentication on the web side.
819 2014-08-23 21:11:08 <hearn> git itself doesn't really "do" 2FA but that's not githubs fault
820 2014-08-23 21:12:12 <PRab> For bitcoin, it is broken, but for other related projects (Armory, btcd, bitcoind-ncurses), I find it extremely useful.
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823 2014-08-23 21:14:41 <gmaxwell> PRab: github's "network graph" is a simulation of that gitk does.
824 2014-08-23 21:15:10 <BlueMatt> gitlab has something similar
825 2014-08-23 21:15:15 <gmaxwell> (and IIRC github's network graph doesn't work at all on bitcoin— but gitk works fine)
826 2014-08-23 21:15:26 <PRab> gmaxwell: gitk doesn't automatically know about everyone else's repo until you add all the remotes.
827 2014-08-23 21:16:22 <gmaxwell> PRab: but github's can't support external repos at all, and won't work with large projects, etc.
828 2014-08-23 21:16:26 <gmaxwell> ('large')
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830 2014-08-23 21:17:10 <gmaxwell> Here is what you get for bitcoin https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/network
831 2014-08-23 21:17:22 <PRab> agreed, both could use some improvements.
832 2014-08-23 21:18:10 <gmaxwell> (git itself, without gitk, can also show the tree view on the commandline too, with git log --graph but it only shows a single repo)
833 2014-08-23 21:18:48 <gmaxwell> For bitcoin I've mostly not found this stuff useful, virtually none of the forks on github have any interest in contributing to bitcoin.
834 2014-08-23 21:19:07 <gmaxwell> (well 'virtually none' was relatively speaking)
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837 2014-08-23 21:21:26 <PRab> FYI, locally I use a combo of the command line and SourceTree.
838 2014-08-23 21:21:51 <PRab> I find SourceTree a bit easier to use that gitk.
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840 2014-08-23 21:23:34 <Luke-Jr> what is gitk part of?
841 2014-08-23 21:23:45 <Luke-Jr> or how do you get it?
842 2014-08-23 21:23:54 agath has joined
843 2014-08-23 21:24:23 <PRab> Luke-Jr: On Windows it was included with the Github's Git for Windows install.
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846 2014-08-23 21:24:33 <Luke-Jr> hrm, not part of my git install
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848 2014-08-23 21:25:07 <PRab> It doesn't make a shortcut for it, but it can be launched from the "Git Shell" shortcut.
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901 2014-08-23 23:01:34 <andytoshi> can i send a tx out without maintaining a mempool? it seems like i have to do `inv` then `getdata`
902 2014-08-23 23:01:44 <andytoshi> then respond to a `getdata` indeterminately later*
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915 2014-08-23 23:22:50 <sipa> andytoshi: they're not relayed from the mempool but from the relay pool
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918 2014-08-23 23:23:13 <sipa> before BIP35, the mempool wasn't queryable through getdata
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920 2014-08-23 23:29:59 <stacksmash> Where should I announce an open-source exchange for testing? Is GPL the right license for such a project?
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922 2014-08-23 23:33:29 <hearn> andytoshi: you can just send it
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924 2014-08-23 23:33:38 <hearn> andytoshi: there is no need to go through the inv/getdata dance if you don't want to
925 2014-08-23 23:33:58 <sipa> you do if you're relaying
926 2014-08-23 23:34:07 <sipa> (rather than being the original sender)
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928 2014-08-23 23:35:28 <andytoshi> sipa: hearn: thx, i wasn't sure if a bare `tx` would be antisocial or ignored
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930 2014-08-23 23:36:13 <andytoshi> s/bare/unsolicited/
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939 2014-08-23 23:43:50 <gmaxwell> andytoshi: the btcd authors are pretty unhappy that they're accepted in the protocol.
940 2014-08-23 23:44:53 <andytoshi> yeah, it seems like an abuse-enabler....but if it's there, i'll use it
941 2014-08-23 23:45:29 <sipa> unless there is a way to know the hash of data before receiving it, it makes no difference
942 2014-08-23 23:46:14 <sipa> (which is in theory the case for blocks, as you can process the header before processing/receiving the transaction data)
943 2014-08-23 23:46:57 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: why?
944 2014-08-23 23:47:00 zenojis has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
945 2014-08-23 23:47:05 <BlueMatt> aside from using downstream bw, but...
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947 2014-08-23 23:49:13 <gmaxwell> presumably because its a potential waste of bandwidth, complexifies the state machine because you need to be able to accept things you didn't ask for. It's also abused by some nodes (e.g. bc.i) to constantly, over and overagain, spam a zillion transactions that you already have.
948 2014-08-23 23:49:47 <BlueMatt> I thought the point of the p2p protocol was that it was stateless...I hope you dont have a state machine there
949 2014-08-23 23:49:51 <gmaxwell> there are some nodes that every block vomit their complete mempool at you.
950 2014-08-23 23:50:00 <BlueMatt> but, yea, its a waste of bw, but its not a dos risk or anything
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955 2014-08-23 23:52:02 <andytoshi> :D https://testing.wpsoftware.net/coinjoin/session.php?id=2fc8f72192076383
956 2014-08-23 23:52:06 <andytoshi> thx for all your help guys
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959 2014-08-23 23:52:49 <gmaxwell> well, it's potentially a DOS risk— or rather makes some approaches to avoiding DOS somewhat harder—, in that your peers can cause you to use memory what you weren't expecting. at least temporarily holding a transaction to recieve it and decide if you want to keep it or not. E.g. perhaps you would have held off pulling more transactions until you'd worked through your queues. If the protocol didn't allow it you could ban peers that ...
960 2014-08-23 23:52:54 <andytoshi> (this is what the new joiner looks like ... it does not do "safe" fee/donation handling yet, but i think it's otherwise  ready)
961 2014-08-23 23:52:55 <gmaxwell> ... were spamming you with stuff you didn't request.
962 2014-08-23 23:54:06 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: you can manage your incoming data queue however you want, keep your kernel incoming queue small and only pull data from kernel when you're ready to process it
963 2014-08-23 23:54:36 zenojis has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
964 2014-08-23 23:54:37 <gmaxwell> BlueMatt: It's not like the kernel has magical free memory. :P
965 2014-08-23 23:54:46 <BlueMatt> gmaxwell: no, but you can keep its queue small
966 2014-08-23 23:55:25 <gmaxwell> Fair enough, it still leaves you with the insane spammy nodes.
967 2014-08-23 23:55:38 <BlueMatt> so if the node is dumb and spamming you, just ban it
968 2014-08-23 23:56:03 <BlueMatt> if you only ever get transactions from it that you've already seen and thats all its providing, ban it
969 2014-08-23 23:56:05 <gmaxwell> I think we could do this, but it would be effectively a change in the protocol.
970 2014-08-23 23:56:25 <BlueMatt> (just like you should ban any node which is taking a non-proprtional amoutn of your resources)
971 2014-08-23 23:56:31 <BlueMatt> but I dont think its a transaction-only thing
972 2014-08-23 23:56:33 <gmaxwell> eeeehhh.
973 2014-08-23 23:57:07 ionstorm has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
974 2014-08-23 23:57:20 <gmaxwell> thats very risky— the non-proportional thing. An attacker just needs to find a way to trigger the non-proportionality behavior remotely without it being triggered on them and they can carve the network up.
975 2014-08-23 23:57:34 <BlueMatt> if any given node is constantly spamming you with messages and you cant keep up....
976 2014-08-23 23:57:42 <BlueMatt> yea, sure, proportionality is probably a bad measure
977 2014-08-23 23:57:53 zenojis has joined
978 2014-08-23 23:57:53 <BlueMatt> its more about keeping up and checking wheterh messages were useful
979 2014-08-23 23:58:10 <gmaxwell> We've been careful to avoid banning on valid behavior even if its abusive due to that risk.
980 2014-08-23 23:58:41 <BlueMatt> it depends on how abusive
981 2014-08-23 23:58:54 <BlueMatt> if its an old version sending spammy transactions with fees, its probably fair to ban
982 2014-08-23 23:58:55 <jgarzik> http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2eekr8/ann_bitcoin_blockchain_data_torrent_updated_to/
983 2014-08-23 23:59:36 <gmaxwell> So you get a bunch of quiet sybil peers to a target victim node, and spam the honest network a bunch... and now the victim is partitioned. I really think that we should probably never ban on behavior that a well constructed peer might possibly consider 'surprising'.
984 2014-08-23 23:59:49 akstunt600 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)