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  55 2014-08-26 01:20:41 <gubatron> i'll be broadcasting live OpenBazaar hacking, http://youtu.be/EfV585sNcsQ (could use another pair of eyes to yell when I'm about to make a mistake)
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  67 2014-08-26 01:42:38 <BlueMatt> lol, due to lack of ntp one of the relay servers received a block before the other had sent it according to logs...
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  70 2014-08-26 01:50:51 <BlueMatt> sooo......now that we're switching to travis, what are we gonna do with the pull-tester server?
  71 2014-08-26 01:50:57 <BlueMatt> sipa/gmaxwell?
  72 2014-08-26 01:51:10 <BlueMatt> wumpus:
  73 2014-08-26 01:54:32 <Luke-Jr> BlueMatt: doesn't travis need to run on some server?
  74 2014-08-26 01:54:44 <BlueMatt> travis runs on travis
  75 2014-08-26 01:54:49 <BlueMatt> its a hosted solution thingg
  76 2014-08-26 01:54:50 <BlueMatt> y
  77 2014-08-26 01:55:57 <Luke-Jr> ew
  78 2014-08-26 01:56:19 <Luke-Jr> so now someone injecting a backdoor just has to have access to some hosted service to hide it?
  79 2014-08-26 01:56:30 <BlueMatt> for those builds, ye
  80 2014-08-26 01:56:31 <BlueMatt> s
  81 2014-08-26 01:57:16 <Luke-Jr> I mean, hopefully peer review would catch it still, but still
  82 2014-08-26 01:57:29 <BlueMatt> hmm?
  83 2014-08-26 01:57:38 <BlueMatt> no one peer reviews the travis infrastructure
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  85 2014-08-26 01:57:50 <BlueMatt> and its just a pull-tester replacement, its not taking over scm
  86 2014-08-26 01:57:51 <Luke-Jr> BlueMatt: of modifications to BCCore
  87 2014-08-26 01:58:02 <BlueMatt> oh, you mean of test-case passing?
  88 2014-08-26 01:58:03 <BlueMatt> yea
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 121 2014-08-26 02:36:40 <ben_vulpes> hey gpg users: when you want to get your keyid, how do you go about doing so?
 122 2014-08-26 02:36:51 <ben_vulpes> (note, i'm not asking *how*, but rather how *you* do it)
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 125 2014-08-26 02:40:35 <LoRez> gpg --list-secret-keys
 126 2014-08-26 02:41:11 <ben_vulpes> LoRez: and then copy/paste?
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 234 2014-08-26 06:13:26 <wumpus> Luke-Jr: I'd hope there are stil some people that run tests locally.
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 236 2014-08-26 06:14:08 <wumpus> (I do, at least)
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 239 2014-08-26 06:17:08 <wumpus> BlueMatt: good question re: the server, I think it makes sense to keep it running for a while still at least to see if Travis really replaces it
 240 2014-08-26 06:18:06 <BlueMatt> wumpus: sure, sure
 241 2014-08-26 06:18:20 <BlueMatt> wumpus: I was just wondering if anyone had ideas for something they'd been meaning to run that we could use it for
 242 2014-08-26 06:18:34 <BlueMatt> we'd need to move bitcoincore.org, but thats not hard
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 252 2014-08-26 06:54:52 <alfacent> what does the f in fCheckInputs mean?
 253 2014-08-26 06:56:23 <wumpus> flag
 254 2014-08-26 06:57:53 <alfacent> and the pf in pfMissingInputs ?
 255 2014-08-26 06:59:22 <wumpus> "People use bittorrent all the time, even though to download 60KB of data you end up having to upload about 60KB of data..."  I've never seen anyone use a torrent for a 60KB file
 256 2014-08-26 07:00:08 <wumpus> alfacent: probably a pointer
 257 2014-08-26 07:00:28 <wumpus> alfacent: satoshi had this weird naming convention, we avoid it in new code
 258 2014-08-26 07:01:16 <alfacent> ok
 259 2014-08-26 07:01:32 <BlueMatt> forrestv: ping
 260 2014-08-26 07:01:46 <forrestv> BlueMatt, pong
 261 2014-08-26 07:01:54 <alfacent> what about the v in vtx and vin...
 262 2014-08-26 07:02:07 <BlueMatt> forrestv: any interest in adding relay network support for p2pool (the protocol is dead simple and it should be an optional flag)?
 263 2014-08-26 07:03:28 <alfacent> ?
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 265 2014-08-26 07:04:08 <BlueMatt> forrestv: (a) if I hacked it together, would you consider merging it, (b) for someone who rarely writes python and has never read the p2pool code, would you suggest a way to go about doing that?
 266 2014-08-26 07:04:30 <forrestv> BlueMatt, /me is looking for a spec for the relay network protocol
 267 2014-08-26 07:04:38 <BlueMatt> forrestv: none, only code
 268 2014-08-26 07:04:51 * forrestv is looking at RelayNode
 269 2014-08-26 07:04:54 <BlueMatt> https://github.com/TheBlueMatt/RelayNode/blob/master/src/main/java/com/mattcorallo/relaynode/RelayConnection.java
 270 2014-08-26 07:05:36 <BlueMatt> essentially, 3-byte header per-message, keep X transactions around in a circular buffer, get blocks that are (header),txids-in-buffer (2 bytes each, or full tx if its not pre-relayed)
 271 2014-08-26 07:06:00 <alfacent> Ok I got it
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 273 2014-08-26 07:06:44 <alfacent> it's vector. I got it
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 276 2014-08-26 07:07:36 <alfacent> Does txes stand for transactions??? Cos' there is no "e" in that word...
 277 2014-08-26 07:08:57 <alfacent> or does it stand for taxes?
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 280 2014-08-26 07:15:29 <edcba> there is no x either
 281 2014-08-26 07:16:15 <wumpus> well, given that bitcoin doesn't compute any taxes, what makes sense in the context...
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 284 2014-08-26 07:17:19 <edcba> toxines maybe ?
 285 2014-08-26 07:17:22 <alfacent> ok, just one more question: what does the w in wtx may mean?
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 287 2014-08-26 07:17:37 <wumpus> it doesn't matter, it's just a variable name
 288 2014-08-26 07:17:49 <wumpus> edcba: that would be dangerous!
 289 2014-08-26 07:18:12 <edcba> variable names ought to be descriptive...
 290 2014-08-26 07:18:28 <alfacent> I find it a bit odd. Look at these two lines of comments:
 291 2014-08-26 07:18:37 <forrestv> BlueMatt, would having it in p2pool have any advantage that running RelayNode alongside wouldn't? i don't really see it - maybe the relay network would get the block a tiny bit faster without it passing through bitcoind first
 292 2014-08-26 07:18:42 <alfacent>     ///// are we sure this is ok when loading transactions or restoring block txes
 293 2014-08-26 07:18:52 <edcba> w is for wallet i think
 294 2014-08-26 07:19:33 <alfacent> and right after it: // If updated, erase old tx from wallet
 295 2014-08-26 07:19:48 <wumpus> edcba: they are descriptive, you just have to ignore the prefixes
 296 2014-08-26 07:19:50 <alfacent> anyway...
 297 2014-08-26 07:20:08 <edcba> wumpus: maybe we should ignore comments too ?
 298 2014-08-26 07:20:22 <wumpus> edcba: only sometimes
 299 2014-08-26 07:20:31 <sipa> wtx = wallet transaction
 300 2014-08-26 07:20:32 * edcba take his dice
 301 2014-08-26 07:20:37 <BlueMatt> forrestv: the main advantage would be lack of need to run a second daemon side-by-side
 302 2014-08-26 07:20:53 <BlueMatt> forrestv: (the relay network would have to be considered untrusted, so would have to go through bitcoind anyway)
 303 2014-08-26 07:21:11 <BlueMatt> forrestv: its really just a way to make it a first-class feature as it pretty directly helps p2pool miners
 304 2014-08-26 07:22:57 <alfacent> there are a lot of printf() calls in Messages section. Where are these messages printed? In the consolde??
 305 2014-08-26 07:23:22 <sipa> messages section?
 306 2014-08-26 07:23:59 <wumpus> alfacent: what version are you looking at? Nowaday these should be LogPrintf calls
 307 2014-08-26 07:24:17 <wumpus> which helpfully indicate the destination of the print in the name
 308 2014-08-26 07:24:29 <alfacent> yes, in main.cpp, in the section regarding the messages
 309 2014-08-26 07:24:37 <sipa> if you mean LogPrintf, and don't know what it does, go look up its definition
 310 2014-08-26 07:24:40 <alfacent> I'm looking at the first version
 311 2014-08-26 07:24:50 <sipa> please, do some basicbinvestigation before asking questions
 312 2014-08-26 07:25:00 <sipa> *basic investigation
 313 2014-08-26 07:25:06 <edcba> yeah use google it helps
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 315 2014-08-26 07:27:52 <wumpus> alfacent: that explains why the comment you pasted exits nowhere in the current source code
 316 2014-08-26 07:28:37 <alfacent> Well, I'm used to printf to write the results to stdout in a console program...
 317 2014-08-26 07:29:11 <sipa> then keep looking, maybe he redefined it to mean something else :)
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 319 2014-08-26 07:29:21 <alfacent> ok
 320 2014-08-26 07:29:24 <forrestv> BlueMatt, ah, i see. well, the way i'd go about it is (since it doesn't really need to be very directly coupled to p2pool) by writing a standalone python implementation of RelayNode that p2pool could easily run within itself as a thread or subprocess
 321 2014-08-26 07:30:19 <alfacent> this is the version I'm studying: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/4405b78d6059e536c36974088a8ed4d9f0f29898/main.cpp
 322 2014-08-26 07:30:29 <BlueMatt> forrestv: yes, would you consider a rather simple implementation that p2pool just calls out to launch a thread and passes the bitcoind p2p address to?
 323 2014-08-26 07:30:47 <BlueMatt> or, lets it call-back to get new blocks to pass bitcoind, to avoid a second connection
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 325 2014-08-26 07:32:29 <sipa> alfacent: not really the first version, but close
 326 2014-08-26 07:32:36 <forrestv> either, i suppose
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 328 2014-08-26 07:33:19 <alfacent> right
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 330 2014-08-26 07:34:57 <alfacent> first version, I think is this: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=382374.0
 331 2014-08-26 07:38:03 <sipa> that's incomplete and pre-release
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 334 2014-08-26 07:39:59 <sipa> the sourcr code for 0.1.5 is in git iirc, just not as first commit
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 336 2014-08-26 07:41:30 <sipa> oh, i'm wrong; the first commit is approximately that
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 341 2014-08-26 07:51:41 <alfacent> yes, it is incomplete. It doesn't even compile because is missing some files
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 409 2014-08-26 10:07:05 <michagogo> ;;blocks
 410 2014-08-26 10:07:06 <gribble> 317539
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 413 2014-08-26 10:12:24 <jacob___> ;;price
 414 2014-08-26 10:12:25 <gribble> Error: "price" is not a valid command.
 415 2014-08-26 10:12:29 <jacob___> ;;help
 416 2014-08-26 10:12:30 <gribble> The bot responds when you start a line with the ! character. A good starting point for exploring the bot is the !facts command. You can also visit the bot's website for a list of help topics and documentation: http://gribble.sourceforge.net/
 417 2014-08-26 10:12:39 <jacob___> !facts
 418 2014-08-26 10:12:39 <gribble> To see a nice sortable web view of all factoids, click here: http://gribble.dreamhosters.com/viewfactoids.php?db=%23bitcoin-dev || To see a list of the most popular factoids, run !rank || To search factoids, run !factoids search <yoursearchterm>
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 436 2014-08-26 10:50:10 <chichov> what happens when the number of inputs or outputs (#vin or #vout) is smaller than the actual number of entries?
 437 2014-08-26 10:50:22 <chichov> does anybody know what happens during parsing then?
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 439 2014-08-26 10:58:34 <wumpus> it just fails
 440 2014-08-26 10:59:01 <wumpus> the transaction is invalid due to a deserialization error
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 442 2014-08-26 11:01:32 <chichov> hm, and the transaction standardness rules are only enforced apriori, which means that for a mined block these rules are not checked, right?
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 444 2014-08-26 11:06:19 <wumpus> you should not confuse isStandard with validity rules
 445 2014-08-26 11:06:33 <wumpus> isStandard is only checked before relaying/storing in the mempool
 446 2014-08-26 11:06:45 <wumpus> hard validity rules are checked for blocks before accepting them
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 448 2014-08-26 11:07:09 <wumpus> a block that doesn't even deserialize correctly would never be accepted by nodes
 449 2014-08-26 11:12:16 <chichov> yep, that I know
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 451 2014-08-26 11:12:32 <chichov> I was just checking that part for a different scenario
 452 2014-08-26 11:12:57 <chichov> one where nLockTime is not final and neither are the tx sequence numbers
 453 2014-08-26 11:13:51 <chichov> in my understanding when a block with such a transaction is mined the transaction standardness rules are not enforced and thus it will be accepted
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 458 2014-08-26 11:16:36 <sipa> non-final transactions are nit allowed in a block
 459 2014-08-26 11:17:34 <sipa> *not
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 464 2014-08-26 11:21:30 <chichov> sipa: they are not?
 465 2014-08-26 11:21:48 <chichov> sipa: I though that standardness rules are not enforced on mined transactions
 466 2014-08-26 11:22:08 <michagogo> chichov: a non-final transaction is invalid
 467 2014-08-26 11:22:13 <michagogo> Not just non-standard
 468 2014-08-26 11:22:18 <sipa> indeed
 469 2014-08-26 11:22:27 <chichov> okay, that's something else then
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 471 2014-08-26 11:23:14 <sipa> what made you think they are only standardness?
 472 2014-08-26 11:23:18 ValicekB has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
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 474 2014-08-26 11:23:54 <chichov> I think the "IsStandardTx" method in the code
 475 2014-08-26 11:24:34 <chichov> yep, there it is
 476 2014-08-26 11:24:37 <sipa> finality is also used to determine what to accept in the mempool
 477 2014-08-26 11:24:43 <chichov> IsStandardTx checks for IsFinalTx
 478 2014-08-26 11:24:52 <sipa> sure
 479 2014-08-26 11:25:21 <chichov> okay then, to clarify this completely
 480 2014-08-26 11:25:25 <sipa> but there is also a rule that makes blocks with nonfinal transactions invalid
 481 2014-08-26 11:25:36 <chichov> a mined block with a non-final transaction is considered invalid?
 482 2014-08-26 11:25:44 <sipa> yes
 483 2014-08-26 11:25:44 <chichov> bingo
 484 2014-08-26 11:25:52 <chichov> thank you!
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 521 2014-08-26 12:15:02 <wumpus> all: please rebase your pulls to master, then travis CI can test them
 522 2014-08-26 12:15:40 <wumpus> that way you get a green tick next to your pull :-)
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 535 2014-08-26 12:37:01 <michagogo> I'm guessing it uses the block timestamp, rather than the actual time?
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 551 2014-08-26 12:59:55 <sipa> michagogo: yes
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 554 2014-08-26 13:04:33 <wumpus> it can either use a block timestamp or a block height
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 560 2014-08-26 13:13:07 <michagogo> wumpus: of course -- I meant, when using a timestamp
 561 2014-08-26 13:15:53 <wumpus> ok
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 569 2014-08-26 13:19:30 <robbak> Just had a glitch I thought I should report. Probably related to a qt library update, bitcoin-qt Sig11'd on startup. Backtrace pointed to a failure in free() inside libcrypto/ssl, so I rebuilt that with debug to dig further. The problem went away. Rebuilt w/o debug, and all is still good.
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 581 2014-08-26 13:44:16 <Luke-Jr> wumpus: I used to as part of every 'make', but automake broke my GNUmakefile that did that for me :x
 582 2014-08-26 13:44:35 <Luke-Jr> wumpus: and those tests didn't run *everything* pulltester did
 583 2014-08-26 13:44:45 <Luke-Jr> not sure if the travis stuff means 100% of tests are in-tree now?
 584 2014-08-26 13:45:07 <wumpus> @cfields probably knows
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 586 2014-08-26 13:45:25 <wumpus> I mean, not all tests are in-tree, but I'm not sure travis does the out-of-tree tests right now
 587 2014-08-26 13:45:41 <wumpus> in the meantime we have both pulltester and travis enabled
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 589 2014-08-26 13:45:47 <Luke-Jr> I think with automake I can just change my habit to 'make check' for testing every build
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 597 2014-08-26 13:51:51 <sipa> yes, i just use make check
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 678 2014-08-26 15:45:26 <cfields> Luke-Jr: they're not all in-tree now, but the tests have been added to the depends as a compromise
 679 2014-08-26 15:45:35 <cfields> so travis ends up testing them
 680 2014-08-26 15:46:00 <cfields> wumpus: that's weird about the symbols showing up in gitian, i tesed that for sure with the visibility changes...
 681 2014-08-26 15:46:16 <cfields> i must've forgotten to commit some small fix. will track it down.
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 684 2014-08-26 15:49:28 <wumpus> yes all the boost symbols being exported is strange
 685 2014-08-26 15:49:45 <cfields> ah, well that one I can explain
 686 2014-08-26 15:49:58 <cfields> i forgot to add the gold package to the descriptor
 687 2014-08-26 15:50:04 <cfields> it's the glibc symbols that are weird
 688 2014-08-26 15:50:31 <wumpus> ah yes that was the problem
 689 2014-08-26 15:50:38 <wumpus> we've seen this one before :)
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 703 2014-08-26 16:11:44 <dhill> is there a max length of a pkscript?
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 711 2014-08-26 16:21:00 <cfields> wumpus: ah right, I didn't enable --enable-glibc-back-compat in the descriptor. I was hoping to get that enabled by default
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 713 2014-08-26 16:21:15 <cfields> but that didn't go well. Seems it can't be reliably detected
 714 2014-08-26 16:21:25 <cfields> updating the descriptors for those 2 things now.
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 717 2014-08-26 16:27:09 <elichai2> hey, looking for a working way to fix unconfirmed tx without a fee(past more than a day)
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 722 2014-08-26 16:31:34 <jgarzik> elichai2, Not sure what is meant by "fix"   Typically you respend the same transaction with a higher fee, perhaps directly submitting it to a miner or two.
 723 2014-08-26 16:31:59 <elichai2> jgarzik, yeah, that what i meant, does double spending will work?
 724 2014-08-26 16:32:14 <elichai2> there is any links to specific miners that i can use for that?
 725 2014-08-26 16:32:19 <jgarzik> elichai2, transactions cannot be undone, but they can be double spent.  You must create a new transaction, then try to get it to one or more miners.
 726 2014-08-26 16:32:30 <dhill> so getutxos makes bitcoind send mesages larger than the max 32MB
 727 2014-08-26 16:33:15 <jgarzik> *facepalm*
 728 2014-08-26 16:34:39 <elichai2> jgarzik, ok, how can i get that tx to miners?
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 730 2014-08-26 16:34:50 <elichai2> (the client isn't accepting double spend txs)
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 733 2014-08-26 16:39:34 <dhill> ReadMessage: message payload is too large - header indicates 2892934254 bytes, but max message payload is 33554432 bytes.
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 736 2014-08-26 16:40:42 <sipa> dhill: thanks for reporting that
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 738 2014-08-26 16:41:45 <dhill> i found a big unspent tx on testnet.. and if i send a getutxo with 50000 entries for it, bitcoind attempts to send me 2892934254 bytes
 739 2014-08-26 16:42:33 <dhill> shouldn't bitcoind not even attempt to send a message if it is over the max message payload size?
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 741 2014-08-26 16:44:30 <sipa> it shouldn't even bither constructing something of that size
 742 2014-08-26 16:44:35 <sipa> let alone trying to send it
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 744 2014-08-26 16:46:13 <jrick> do duplicate txout queries in the same getutxos request even make sense?
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 746 2014-08-26 16:48:40 <sipa> no, but i'm not sure that trying to detect duplicates makes sense
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 749 2014-08-26 16:49:06 <sipa> we should just keep track of the size of the constructed response, and fail if it is too large
 750 2014-08-26 16:49:22 <sipa> ... or even beyter, get rid of the full txout results and just return spentness
 751 2014-08-26 16:49:26 <jrick> well if you look them up in order, you can keep an unordered set of ones you've already found, and if there's a duplicate, ignore it
 752 2014-08-26 16:49:33 <sipa> ... or not have that message at all
 753 2014-08-26 16:49:37 <jrick> hehe
 754 2014-08-26 16:49:39 <gmaxwell> more considerations that wouldn't exist if it didn't return the data.
 755 2014-08-26 16:49:58 <Jouke> are these p2p messages or rpc?
 756 2014-08-26 16:50:03 <sipa> jrick: yes, but what do you gain?
 757 2014-08-26 16:50:06 <davec> sadly p2p
 758 2014-08-26 16:50:07 <sipa> Jouke: p2p
 759 2014-08-26 16:50:16 <Jouke> ok
 760 2014-08-26 16:50:17 <jrick> I do like proving spentness better than claiming unspentness
 761 2014-08-26 16:50:34 <sipa> that requires a much more extensive database
 762 2014-08-26 16:50:43 <sipa> in particular, just a utxo set does not suffive
 763 2014-08-26 16:50:45 <gmaxwell> which isn't required for anything else.
 764 2014-08-26 16:50:48 <jrick> right
 765 2014-08-26 16:51:17 <jrick> sipa: you'd presumably save another db lookup, or could just throw the request away for being dumb
 766 2014-08-26 16:51:19 <gmaxwell> and would be completely pruning incompatible, so a marginal cost of tens of gigabytes on top of the basic full verifying node requirements.
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 768 2014-08-26 16:51:46 <jrick> hmm true
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 773 2014-08-26 16:54:53 <sipa> yeah, if that is the requested functionality, i have no problems with it, but it should definitely be some external database, not standard network node
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 781 2014-08-26 17:04:03 <elichai2> jgarzik, ?
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 789 2014-08-26 17:14:29 <denisx> jgarzik: did you ever think about using bittorrent sync for the bootstrap.dat file?
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 834 2014-08-26 18:28:56 <super3> amiller: can i get into that channel again?
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 942 2014-08-26 20:35:48 <ayansh> what is in data/bitcoin/cached_payout_address i can see one addr which is not on stats(hour/day)
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 945 2014-08-26 20:37:25 <ayansh> sorry wrong channel.
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 977 2014-08-26 21:25:32 <jrick> so the peer handling code sends messages using CDataStream, and I don't see any sort of way to limit the total amount written to the stream
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 979 2014-08-26 21:26:12 <jrick> and it acts as a buffer (has to, it needs to calculate a checksum), so for large responses like the getutxos ones dhill was getting, it can end up creating 200+ MB buffers in mem
 980 2014-08-26 21:26:34 <jrick> sounds like a great way to OOM any bitcoind on the network
 981 2014-08-26 21:27:01 <gmaxwell> jrick: it's limited by virtue of none of the past message types being willing or able to generate superlarge outputs.
 982 2014-08-26 21:27:18 <jrick> yeah that assumption isn't true anymore :p
 983 2014-08-26 21:27:24 <gmaxwell> It will be. :)
 984 2014-08-26 21:28:01 <jrick> I still think CDataStream should check for too much data written
 985 2014-08-26 21:28:11 <gmaxwell> (The getutxos change has obviously been inadequately reviewed; but thats okay, thats why stuff doesn't go from patch to shipping instantly)
 986 2014-08-26 21:28:36 <gmaxwell> jrick: perhaps— it could. Belt-and-suspenders.
 987 2014-08-26 21:29:55 <davec> even with adequate review, which I agree will likely be resolved before it is in a release version
 988 2014-08-26 21:30:11 <davec> the feature is still fundamentally flawed with the current state
 989 2014-08-26 21:30:30 <gmaxwell> I am unhappy with it, and was making some effort to resolve it privately before.
 990 2014-08-26 21:30:34 <davec> after some of the infrastructure is in place to do it properly, it makes sense
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