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171 2014-09-01 01:59:59 <jgarzik> gmaxwell, Can you translate this? "This also RES after startup for me by 150MB."
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175 2014-09-01 02:00:58 <gmaxwell> gah!
176 2014-09-01 02:01:06 <gmaxwell> it reduces process RES. I'll fix.
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178 2014-09-01 02:02:34 <gmaxwell> most of our memory usage after startup right now is the coins cacheâ not even so much the cache itself, its use of data types and the allocator is somewhat pessimal and has something like 2x overhead.
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181 2014-09-01 02:03:01 <gmaxwell> The change keeps some of the data out of the coins cache, so it's a modest reduction. But we really need to put that cache on a diet.
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185 2014-09-01 02:07:09 <gmaxwell> That change goes 580->427, with that changed and cache cut way down (e.g. to 4mb) the process runs in under 256 MB ram for me (202MB, in fact).
186 2014-09-01 02:08:04 <gmaxwell> Is there a reasonably portable way to determine how much memoy the system has free+cached? â we could make the default dbcache size dynamic. (e.g. large on big memory hosts, small otherwise)
187 2014-09-01 02:09:14 <Luke-Jr> I notice valgrind provides a more realistic memory usage number than anything else I can see
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189 2014-09-01 02:10:33 <gmaxwell> most of the heap profilers ignore a bunch of overhead, which seems to make them seriously understate the usage of the cache, thats the best I can figure out.
190 2014-09-01 02:11:05 <gmaxwell> to reduce further than the 202MB we need to reduce some of the thread stack sizes or the number of threads (or both).
191 2014-09-01 02:12:08 <gmaxwell> The blockindex also has a fair amount of memory in use, ... I thought it might be smaller if I changed it from a map to an ordered_map and wasted a bunch of time on that yesturdayâ (it just took a lot of typing because we're not using a @#$@ typedef) but sadly it didn't reduce the memory usage.
192 2014-09-01 02:12:47 <gmaxwell> I can't even tell if it made the blockindex load times faster because for some reason the numbers are wildly inconsistent, my system seems to randomly take either 8 or 18 seconds to read the block index.
193 2014-09-01 02:14:26 <gmaxwell> http://0bin.net/paste/XeqX+ayuAea-oVwt#VmZQNLsVyGATyBRthvnQMdb+apwiqp7eBz1mDGL3GLj
194 2014-09-01 02:15:16 <gmaxwell> (I was probably running the code in valgrind in the 77 second one)
195 2014-09-01 02:16:14 <gmaxwell> Anyone have a huge wallet that they can do some benchmarks on? I suspect we can cut the bdb cache size way down with ~no impact in performance.
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198 2014-09-01 02:20:05 <gmaxwell> e.g. I am down to 188MB with -dbcache=4 -rpcthreads=1 -par=1 -dnsseed=0
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200 2014-09-01 02:23:34 <gmaxwell> dumpaddr, addconn, dnsseed, and perhaps ThreadFlushWalletDB can probably be merged. ext-ip goes away with my discovery patches.
201 2014-09-01 02:24:14 <gmaxwell> hm. perhaps addconn and dnsseed shouldn't be merged, the annoying thing is that you don't want dns blocking to stop other activity.
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257 2014-09-01 03:33:31 <justanot1eruser> Is python-bitcoinlib just an active branch of python-bitcoin?
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265 2014-09-01 03:39:37 <earlz> Has anyone experienced an issue where the bitcoin RPC interface seems to hang? Like I make a request to it, but then it just sits there, I guess waiting for more content
266 2014-09-01 03:40:17 <earlz> Oddly enough it's only mono 3.4.0 that I can produce this issue with
267 2014-09-01 03:41:57 <justanot1eruser> earlz: can you make the same RPC without mono?
268 2014-09-01 03:42:50 fdi11inger has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
269 2014-09-01 03:43:27 <earlz> hooking wireshark up to it now to see what's up
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271 2014-09-01 03:43:54 <earlz> just wondeirng if there is any failure case where it's expected that the RPC interface would just hang
272 2014-09-01 03:46:13 <justanot1eruser> earlz: Maybe getrawmempool back when the enjoysochi spam was around..
273 2014-09-01 03:46:31 <justanot1eruser> hang indefinately? Not that I know of
274 2014-09-01 03:46:54 <phantomcircuit> gmaxwell, dns can be made async
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276 2014-09-01 03:48:33 <earlz> heh, appears to be a really stupid mono bug
277 2014-09-01 03:48:51 <earlz> instead of actual credentials, it sends " System.Net.NetworkCredential"
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291 2014-09-01 04:03:09 <earlz> er, turns out it's just an error in me doing things stupidly. go figure lol
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295 2014-09-01 04:12:29 <earlz> Is the RPC interface multithreaded? Like, will it be faster doing parallel requests?
296 2014-09-01 04:14:14 <Forex> earlz: go to open bazaar irc
297 2014-09-01 04:14:14 <Forex> :D
298 2014-09-01 04:15:06 <earlz> wat
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301 2014-09-01 04:23:57 <Forex> #openbazaar go there :D
302 2014-09-01 04:24:00 <Forex> u might like it
303 2014-09-01 04:24:37 <Forex> new peer to peer distributed e commerce platform
304 2014-09-01 04:24:38 <gmaxwell> Forex: do not spam people in here with crap like that.
305 2014-09-01 04:25:06 <Forex> gmaxwell: interesting, I thought its very neat idea
306 2014-09-01 04:25:13 <gmaxwell> earlz: some rpcs can run concurrently, most require access to a global lock and block each other.
307 2014-09-01 04:25:15 <Forex> any obvious pitfalls you noticed?
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310 2014-09-01 04:25:47 <Forex> gmaxwell: they might utilise your multy signature ideas :)
311 2014-09-01 04:25:54 <Forex> multi
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315 2014-09-01 04:27:15 <Forex> gmaxwell: u are pretty bright person, care to point to obvious faults?
316 2014-09-01 04:27:24 <Forex> that can save alot of people time then :)
317 2014-09-01 04:27:41 <Forex> sorry
318 2014-09-01 04:27:42 <Forex> :)
319 2014-09-01 04:27:46 <Forex> I though I am in #bitcoin
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321 2014-09-01 04:30:58 <earlz> gmaxwell: so it depends on the rpc call you're using?
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418 2014-09-01 08:02:47 <wumpus> what's up with removing the network id from CChainParams? seems more trouble than it's worth
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421 2014-09-01 08:06:29 tarantillo_ has joined
422 2014-09-01 08:07:24 <wumpus> I know I'm guilty of it too, but right now I just get dizzy from all the code movement commits
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429 2014-09-01 08:15:38 psgs is now known as psgs|away
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434 2014-09-01 08:22:33 <wumpus> cozz has done some great work on the wallet lately, if anyone still cares about Bitcoin Core's wallet do help teesting and reviewing of #4331 #4697 #4701 #4712 #4798 #4800 #4805
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454 2014-09-01 08:50:14 <wumpus> version message: /Mothership:Aiur/: version 70001, blocks=318564, us=:8333, peer=3705
455 2014-09-01 08:50:25 <wumpus> this one is extremely agressively connecting to my node
456 2014-09-01 08:50:51 <wumpus> holds about 36 connection slots
457 2014-09-01 08:51:43 <gmaxwell> wumpus: all from one host?
458 2014-09-01 08:52:01 <wumpus> it looks like it has a few different hosts, although there are multiple connections from the same host too
459 2014-09-01 08:53:15 <wumpus> I'll make a list
460 2014-09-01 08:56:32 serialbandicoot has joined
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462 2014-09-01 09:01:47 <wumpus> gmaxwell: https://gist.github.com/laanwj/2a89da909bf161c7e4c2
463 2014-09-01 09:05:23 <wumpus> all are from linode hostst - they claim NODE_NETWORK, but none of them has a sync height
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485 2014-09-01 09:29:24 <ThomasV> gmaxwell: I have merged an implementation of ecies in electrum. it would be nice if you could have a look
486 2014-09-01 09:29:34 Aido_ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
487 2014-09-01 09:29:36 <ThomasV> https://github.com/spesmilo/electrum/commit/93f61f1717deb868b73a6cf2f600c7e2f77c4908
488 2014-09-01 09:31:54 benrcole has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
489 2014-09-01 09:32:59 <gmaxwell> It should probably not use only the x coordinate as the input to the KDF.
490 2014-09-01 09:33:28 jchp has joined
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492 2014-09-01 09:33:59 <ThomasV> why?
493 2014-09-01 09:35:50 <gmaxwell> Because if you give me a message, I can change it but leave the resulting ephemeral key the same. I don't know that this breaks anything but it seems like a not-good property.
494 2014-09-01 09:36:37 <gmaxwell> (it also loses one bit of security, though that also doesn't matter)
495 2014-09-01 09:36:51 <gmaxwell> I really think this class of feature is ill advised.
496 2014-09-01 09:37:23 <ThomasV> I see
497 2014-09-01 09:37:29 <gmaxwell> this is much better though!
498 2014-09-01 09:40:06 <gmaxwell> ThomasV: why do you convert the data to hex before feeding it to the hash function?
499 2014-09-01 09:40:27 <ThomasV> I don't know
500 2014-09-01 09:40:37 <ThomasV> this does not seem necessary
501 2014-09-01 09:40:59 <gmaxwell> it makes it needlessly hard to implement in languages that aren't python, and wastes cpu time.
502 2014-09-01 09:41:29 <ThomasV> hm, wait.. where do you see that ?
503 2014-09-01 09:41:35 <gmaxwell> I'd recommend seralizing the resulting point like the ephemeral key is seralized and just giving that data to the hash function.
504 2014-09-01 09:41:48 <gmaxwell> + ecdh_key = ('%064x' % ecdh_key).decode('hex')
505 2014-09-01 09:42:19 <sipa> that converts to hex and back
506 2014-09-01 09:42:27 <sipa> i assume it's just for padding
507 2014-09-01 09:42:28 <phantomcircuit> sipa, shh this is funny
508 2014-09-01 09:42:31 <ThomasV> gmaxwell: decode does the opposite
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510 2014-09-01 09:42:52 <sipa> odd way of padding, but functionally identical to what gmaxwell suggests
511 2014-09-01 09:43:00 <gmaxwell> I know, it seems weird, and it makes the behavior depend on the formating (maybe it does nothing surprising?.
512 2014-09-01 09:43:01 Luke-Jr has joined
513 2014-09-01 09:43:04 <gmaxwell> No it's not.
514 2014-09-01 09:43:11 <sipa> no
515 2014-09-01 09:43:25 <gmaxwell> sipa: what I suggest is seralizing it like the ephemerial key isâ which would not drop the sign like its currently doing.
516 2014-09-01 09:43:25 <sipa> it converts to hex, pads with 0s, and converts back to binary
517 2014-09-01 09:43:47 <gmaxwell> and wouldn't add 32 zero bytes for no obvious reason.
518 2014-09-01 09:43:49 <ThomasV> ok
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523 2014-09-01 09:46:05 <ThomasV> what is the effect of dropping the sign, btw?
524 2014-09-01 09:46:06 <gmaxwell> ah the 64 in the format specifier is the number of hex digits, duh.
525 2014-09-01 09:46:15 ak__ has joined
526 2014-09-01 09:46:31 <sipa> ... sign?
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528 2014-09-01 09:46:46 <gmaxwell> the effect is that it reduces the key space by one bit, and it introduces a trivial malleability where I can modify the input message and you'll still get the same ephemeral key.
529 2014-09-01 09:46:57 <gmaxwell> sipa: the y coorid flag.
530 2014-09-01 09:47:01 <sipa> ah
531 2014-09-01 09:47:23 <sipa> right, sign of the point i guess
532 2014-09-01 09:47:29 <sipa> not sign of a field element
533 2014-09-01 09:48:29 <gmaxwell> I'd probably have to think for a bit to come up with a case contrived enough for the 02:40 < gmaxwell> the effect is that it reduces the key space by one bit, and it introduces a trivial malleability where I can modify the input message and you'll
534 2014-09-01 09:48:46 <gmaxwell> for the malleability to cause any harm, but it just seems unfortunate (and surprising)
535 2014-09-01 09:49:04 <ThomasV> heh :)
536 2014-09-01 09:49:44 <gmaxwell> in bitcoin we've learned unneeded malleability can have some pretty unwelcome consequences. :)
537 2014-09-01 09:51:13 <gmaxwell> hm. you're signaling a whole seperate 16 byte IV? hm.
538 2014-09-01 09:53:04 <ThomasV> there's another commit: https://github.com/spesmilo/electrum/commit/a3d02525e2a96f9c166421f71f96b9d6201f0d03
539 2014-09-01 09:53:26 <gmaxwell> hm. I don't see how the size is handled here.
540 2014-09-01 09:53:48 <gmaxwell> If this is AES-CBC the ciphertext must be a multiple of the AES blocksize.
541 2014-09-01 09:55:01 <phantomcircuit> ThomasV, relying on the format code behavior is probably not a good idea, use an array ( https://docs.python.org/2/library/array.html )
542 2014-09-01 09:55:29 <ThomasV> phantomcircuit: ok
543 2014-09-01 09:56:22 <gmaxwell> I don't see how this could possibly be doing what it says unless the 'aes' code that isn't shown here is doing some non-trivial stuff behind the scenes.
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547 2014-09-01 09:59:59 <gmaxwell> this also appears to have a second random input, for the IV.
548 2014-09-01 10:01:46 <ThomasV> yes, in aes
549 2014-09-01 10:02:59 <gmaxwell> where do I find the code for this? The docs onlineâ if its the same functionâ appear to suggest that you're supposted to call something to set cbc mode?
550 2014-09-01 10:03:14 <ThomasV> moment..
551 2014-09-01 10:03:36 <gmaxwell> Really this should use the same KDF that sets the AES key and the hmac key to also derrive an IV (and avoid some other uncontrolled source of randomness)
552 2014-09-01 10:04:43 <gmaxwell> since thats under the hmac with the patch I don't see a useful attack off the bat, but it adds 16 bytes (*base64 encoding) to the message data.
553 2014-09-01 10:04:54 <gmaxwell> and a need for more random inputs.
554 2014-09-01 10:05:07 <ThomasV> http://slowaes.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/python/aes.py
555 2014-09-01 10:05:08 <ThomasV> here
556 2014-09-01 10:05:29 <ThomasV> see line 608, there's a comment about message length
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559 2014-09-01 10:10:25 <gmaxwell> right, it's using PKCS7 padding.
560 2014-09-01 10:11:39 <gmaxwell> this is a pretty crappy implementation, it gives you no mechenism to control the other than having it call urandom itself on the encryption side.
561 2014-09-01 10:12:27 <ThomasV> but it could be reimplemented on my side
562 2014-09-01 10:13:45 <ThomasV> why do they say it's a bad idea to store the original length?
563 2014-09-01 10:13:58 <gmaxwell> because you get heartbleed attacks and the like.
564 2014-09-01 10:14:17 <gmaxwell> It's unnecessary, the length is unambigious on account of the padding design.
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568 2014-09-01 10:16:10 <gmaxwell> right sure, the format however signals the IV, I think that should be dropped and replaced with deriving it using the KDF. The PKCS7 padding should be made explicit, e.g. just mention it where it says it uses AES CBC.
569 2014-09-01 10:16:22 <ThomasV> so you suggest to derive the iv from the key, to have only one source of randomness?
570 2014-09-01 10:18:04 <gmaxwell> I doâ the same way the cipher and hmac keys are derrived, and to avoid 16 bytes (*base64) of overhead.
571 2014-09-01 10:18:16 <ThomasV> I see
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574 2014-09-01 10:19:10 <gmaxwell> I take it elsewhere you have protections against malicious data coming out of this? e.g. if you display the output it's escaped?
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577 2014-09-01 10:19:49 <gmaxwell> Also, what happens if I give you a message who's valid decryption ends with invalid PKCS7 padding? e.g. ending with 0?
578 2014-09-01 10:20:12 <gmaxwell> looks like it raises an exception that isn't caught anywhere?
579 2014-09-01 10:20:52 <ThomasV> I did not try that, I will
580 2014-09-01 10:20:56 <ThomasV> I guess it does
581 2014-09-01 10:22:30 <gmaxwell> (this is why libraries hiding crypto code ... isn't always good! :) )
582 2014-09-01 10:23:25 <ThomasV> what libraries?
583 2014-09-01 10:23:47 <gmaxwell> well 'modules'. I just mean that it was not at all clear at the top that this was using PKCS7 padding, and that the padding decode could fail.
584 2014-09-01 10:24:03 <gmaxwell> I only noticed it because CBC by itself can't work on arbritary length messages.
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586 2014-09-01 10:26:05 <gmaxwell> the strip function is also potentially too permissive. I can construct an invalid message this software will decode, but other correct software would reject.
587 2014-09-01 10:27:07 <gmaxwell> because it only checks the last byte and not the rest of the padding.
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589 2014-09-01 10:27:31 <ThomasV> it's nice to have gmaxwell review crypto code :)
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591 2014-09-01 10:29:09 <ThomasV> gmaxwell: as input to the kdf, should I use the full x and y, or just x and the sign of y?
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595 2014-09-01 10:31:09 <gmaxwell> I'd recommend using the same encoding used for the ephemeral keyâ where there is a 2 or 3 indicating the sign of y. The reason for that is some crazy embedded version could save some calculations in determining the full value of y. There should be no cryptographic difference between the two choices.
596 2014-09-01 10:32:59 <ThomasV> I don't get that point (about the crazy embedded version saving calculations)
597 2014-09-01 10:33:35 <gmaxwell> WRT the IV size and the KDF, you might have noticed that the KDF outputs 512 bits, and you're currently using all 512. I recommend changing to AES128 from the AES 256 is uses now. This nicely gives you 128 bits of KDF output back, and AES256 has some certificational weaknesses which may make it weaker than AES128.
598 2014-09-01 10:34:05 <gmaxwell> (though the particular weakness known now shouldn't matter for how AES is used in this application, IIRC it's a related key attack)
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601 2014-09-01 10:34:56 <gmaxwell> ThomasV: it's possible to compute Point*scalar and only get the X cooridnate (and the sign of y) with less computation than getting both the X and Y cooridnate completely.
602 2014-09-01 10:36:18 <ThomasV> I see
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606 2014-09-01 10:37:42 <gmaxwell> There is no extra data in the y coorid over x+sign, in that the x plus the sign uniquely identify the y.
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611 2014-09-01 10:41:49 <ThomasV> gmaxwell: ok, thank you for your feedback. I will get back to you if I have more questions
612 2014-09-01 10:42:58 <gmaxwell> okay, if you want me to talk to the person who submitted the patch as well let me know. Thanks for taking the time to answer questions for me too (e.g. I probably would have wasted a ton of time finding that AES code)
613 2014-09-01 10:44:44 <ThomasV> that's nice, thank you. I met this person irl
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632 2014-09-01 11:16:22 <aphorise> Whats the there for some newly mined coins sometimes being less than 25+tx? rather they are 24.9x + tx that round to 25.x something? - just trying to find something in docs / materials that can help explain.
633 2014-09-01 11:16:58 b-itcoinssg has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
634 2014-09-01 11:16:58 <aphorise> the reason*
635 2014-09-01 11:17:11 paveljanik has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
636 2014-09-01 11:17:28 <sipa> answer: stupid miners
637 2014-09-01 11:17:39 <aphorise> but how so?
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639 2014-09-01 11:17:50 <sipa> the coinbase is allowed to generate up to 25 BTC
640 2014-09-01 11:17:58 <sipa> but generating less is not illegal
641 2014-09-01 11:18:28 <aphorise> so why is it stupid?
642 2014-09-01 11:18:40 <sipa> because they're earning less than they could
643 2014-09-01 11:18:46 <sipa> but that's their problem
644 2014-09-01 11:19:08 <sipa> i didn't know it happened, though
645 2014-09-01 11:19:37 <aphorise> how would you measure more? - cause if its still tx amount exceeding 25 than it roughly same subject to tx u get lucky with I guess.
646 2014-09-01 11:20:39 cbeams has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
647 2014-09-01 11:20:40 <aphorise> I just thought it was fixed to 50, 25, 12.5, 6.25 etc
648 2014-09-01 11:21:46 KillYourTV has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
649 2014-09-01 11:22:00 <gmaxwell> aphorise: can you show me what block you're talking about?
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652 2014-09-01 11:22:24 <sipa> the coinbase transaction is allowed to take up to (50.00000000 BTC) / (2 ** (height / 210000)) + tx_fees
653 2014-09-01 11:22:29 <sipa> but less is also valid
654 2014-09-01 11:22:31 <gmaxwell> I'm not aware of anyone doing <25.
655 2014-09-01 11:22:41 wallet42 has joined
656 2014-09-01 11:22:54 <aphorise> https://blockchain.info/tx/0697b41a8856c143c0446a9d26a34de61f6d1ffeee7379862fcc57ae35dcd1fc for example
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658 2014-09-01 11:23:49 <gmaxwell> aphorise: 24.90034045 + 0.12512733 > 25
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664 2014-09-01 11:32:02 <wumpus> more people have noticed those aiur nodes https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=765157
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732 2014-09-01 13:04:59 <ThomasV> gmaxwell: https://github.com/spesmilo/electrum/commit/a97375dbb4a2fd29ce2dc003abf117fb77aa6005
733 2014-09-01 13:05:12 <ThomasV> and https://github.com/spesmilo/electrum/commit/eed37c41b51f99e1fa6e532a20fe879d6388729d
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735 2014-09-01 13:10:03 <gmaxwell> awesome. Don't forget to update the comment description. Hm one other possible changeâ consider using HMAC SHA-512/256 instead of SHA-256? Right now an implementation of this must have both the sha256 and sha512 functions. Whereas SHA-512/256 requires only a different initial constant.
736 2014-09-01 13:11:12 <gmaxwell> (e.g. it's AES128-CBS with PKCS7 padding)
737 2014-09-01 13:11:21 <gmaxwell> This aes.strip_PKCS7_padding(decr)? is still the function I saw earlier?
738 2014-09-01 13:11:49 <gmaxwell> it's too permissive. E.g. it will successfully decode some invalid paddings. Probably the right thing to do is to be strict.
739 2014-09-01 13:13:16 <ThomasV> oh ok
740 2014-09-01 13:13:55 <gmaxwell> (all the padding digits should be the same value, that code from earlier checked only the last one)
741 2014-09-01 13:13:57 <ThomasV> (I was just emailing Lucas who wrote the previous verion)
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748 2014-09-01 13:17:32 <hearn> gmaxwell: congrats on leaving mozilla!
749 2014-09-01 13:17:38 <hearn> gmaxwell: it's good to have you full time
750 2014-09-01 13:17:46 Dagger3 is now known as Dagger2
751 2014-09-01 13:17:50 <hearn> any idea what you'll do with your newfound (?) time?
752 2014-09-01 13:18:21 banghouse has joined
753 2014-09-01 13:18:26 Dagger2 is now known as Dagger
754 2014-09-01 13:18:39 <ThomasV> hearn: code review for bitcoin projects :)
755 2014-09-01 13:18:45 <sipa> i assume he'll just start having a few hours of sleep per night?
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765 2014-09-01 13:21:40 <hearn> sipa: that sounds healthy :)
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778 2014-09-01 13:48:54 <ThomasV> gmaxwell: I fixed the strip_PKCS7_padding function. I don't know about HMAC SHA-512/256
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789 2014-09-01 14:11:02 <andytoshi> does it make any sense that i'm getting a factor of ~10 slowdown trying to generate sequential keys instead of random ones?
790 2014-09-01 14:11:18 <andytoshi> seems at best totally backward
791 2014-09-01 14:11:29 Lexa has joined
792 2014-09-01 14:11:42 <sipa> that makes no sense
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794 2014-09-01 14:12:25 <andytoshi> must be rust's benchmarking stuff ... right now `cargo bench` runs with no optimizations so i must be seeing an artifact of the preopt code
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796 2014-09-01 14:12:38 <sipa> if anything, computing A+G (== (a+1)*G) should be ~100 times faster than r*G
797 2014-09-01 14:12:44 <andytoshi> yeah exactly
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835 2014-09-01 15:11:53 <samson_> One of these : http://strongvpn.com/vpn_routers_new.shtml
836 2014-09-01 15:12:40 <samson_> I'm not sure if they offer static IP's though
837 2014-09-01 15:14:07 <samson_> damn wrong window - sorry guys
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840 2014-09-01 15:18:23 <dionyziz> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Script#Provably_Unspendable.2FPrunable_Outputs
841 2014-09-01 15:18:37 <dionyziz> I see here in the "Provably Unspendable/Prunable Outputs" section that it says:
842 2014-09-01 15:18:42 <dionyziz> "Note that this mechanism is not yet a standard transaction type, and thus will not be relayed by nodes on mainnet."
843 2014-09-01 15:18:44 Quanttek has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
844 2014-09-01 15:18:46 <dionyziz> Is this information accurate or outdated?
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848 2014-09-01 15:23:28 <sipa> that's outdated
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850 2014-09-01 15:23:45 <sipa> under restricted conditions, such transactions are relayed
851 2014-09-01 15:23:46 banghouse has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
852 2014-09-01 15:26:28 abathingape has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
853 2014-09-01 15:28:41 <dionyziz> ok I will update the wiki, thanks :)
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898 2014-09-01 16:27:33 * Luke-Jr grumbles "/Satoshi/addrindex:0.9.99/" unknown
899 2014-09-01 16:28:36 ronkrt-bnc is now known as TheRelic
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911 2014-09-01 16:38:21 <andytoshi> does anyone have numbers for how fast addresses can be generated? with secp256k1-rust i can create sk+pk+hash160(pk) in 120μs
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914 2014-09-01 16:39:18 <Luke-Jr> andytoshi: HD wallet addresses, pure random addresses, vanitygen-type addresses, or what? ;)
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920 2014-09-01 16:39:56 <jrick> lol vanity addresses
921 2014-09-01 16:39:58 <sipa> meh, the relevant part is how fast you can peform the EC trapdoor function :)
922 2014-09-01 16:40:01 <andytoshi> oh, lol, HD ckd_pub addresses
923 2014-09-01 16:40:20 hearn_ is now known as hearn
924 2014-09-01 16:40:31 <sipa> andytoshi: starting from the parent pubkey or from the parent private key?
925 2014-09-01 16:40:36 <Luke-Jr> also, on a modern CPU or old one? high end or low end? GPU accel? :P
926 2014-09-01 16:40:50 <sipa> (the latter would need 2 EC multiplications)
927 2014-09-01 16:40:52 <andytoshi> sipa: parent pubkey
928 2014-09-01 16:41:18 <andytoshi> Luke-Jr: i7-4700MQ @ 2.40Ghz
929 2014-09-01 16:41:52 <sipa> iirc, libsecp256k1 needs like 30us, but that was before i implemented slicing of the precomputed tables
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931 2014-09-01 16:42:33 <sipa> oh, wait, that's for pure random keys
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938 2014-09-01 16:44:29 <andytoshi> pure secp256k1 (no ripemd160 or HD stuff): for sequential keys i am at 57μs (literally (sk, pk), (sk+1, pk*G), ...) ... for random keys looks like like 230μs
939 2014-09-01 16:44:46 <andytoshi> 276μs :/
940 2014-09-01 16:45:11 <sipa> are you using libsecp256k1?
941 2014-09-01 16:45:19 <andytoshi> yeah, through rust FFI
942 2014-09-01 16:45:31 <andytoshi> libsecp256k1.so is compiled right from your sources
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944 2014-09-01 16:46:18 <sipa> using 64bit_asm / gmp?
945 2014-09-01 16:47:19 <andytoshi> how can i tell? ./configure tells me -lgmp is there but yasm is not
946 2014-09-01 16:47:26 <sipa> a
947 2014-09-01 16:47:27 <sipa> ah
948 2014-09-01 16:47:32 <sipa> well, install yasm :)
949 2014-09-01 16:47:35 <andytoshi> kk will do
950 2014-09-01 16:47:51 <sipa> at the end of configure it should tell you which field and which bignum implementation it is using
951 2014-09-01 16:47:56 <andytoshi> also btw a sizable chunk (~30% i think, hard to count up all the perf entries) of my time is in the fortuna RNG..
952 2014-09-01 16:48:15 <sipa> configure: Using field implementation: 64bit_asm
953 2014-09-01 16:48:15 <sipa> configure: Using bignum implementation: gmp
954 2014-09-01 16:48:36 <andytoshi> yup, got that now. did not have asm before
955 2014-09-01 16:48:49 <sipa> it may add 20% speed or so
956 2014-09-01 16:48:56 <sipa> or less
957 2014-09-01 16:49:00 <sipa> depends on the CPU type etc
958 2014-09-01 16:49:16 <sipa> i've mostly been concerned with verification speed rather than signing speed
959 2014-09-01 16:49:32 <sipa> i think the slicing a few months ago cut signing performance by 40% or so
960 2014-09-01 16:49:45 <sipa> well, signing/generation
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963 2014-09-01 16:50:38 <andytoshi> cool, down to 250μs
964 2014-09-01 16:50:59 <sipa> andytoshi: btw, using private_tweak_add + generate will be much faster than doing the tweak on both pubkey and private after generation
965 2014-09-01 16:51:09 bmcgee_ has joined
966 2014-09-01 16:51:12 <andytoshi> i noticed that
967 2014-09-01 16:51:14 <andytoshi> why?
968 2014-09-01 16:51:27 <sipa> because private_tweak_add is just modulo order arithmetic
969 2014-09-01 16:51:42 <sipa> while pubkey_tweak_add is an EC addition
970 2014-09-01 16:51:51 unkn-error has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
971 2014-09-01 16:51:57 <andytoshi> yeah, but generate is an EC mult, no?
972 2014-09-01 16:52:08 <sipa> sorry, pubkey_tweak_add is EC mult + EC add
973 2014-09-01 16:52:09 <andytoshi> which should be way costlier than the addition
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976 2014-09-01 16:52:31 <andytoshi> oh, right .. but if i'm doing an EC mult by 1 that should be free?
977 2014-09-01 16:52:31 <sipa> first convert the tweak to a group element, then add it to the pubkey
978 2014-09-01 16:52:56 ak__ has joined
979 2014-09-01 16:53:05 <sipa> it's designed to be near constant time
980 2014-09-01 16:53:11 akstunt600 has joined
981 2014-09-01 16:53:24 <andytoshi> gotcha, thx
982 2014-09-01 16:53:28 <andytoshi> that was really mystifying me
983 2014-09-01 16:53:34 <andytoshi> but the numbers don't lie..
984 2014-09-01 16:53:49 bmcgee has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
985 2014-09-01 16:53:49 bmcgee_ is now known as bmcgee
986 2014-09-01 16:54:37 oujh has joined
987 2014-09-01 16:54:37 <sipa> pubkey_tweak_add is actually doing the wrong protection
988 2014-09-01 16:54:51 <sipa> the multiplication with G is constant-time, but the addition isn't
989 2014-09-01 16:56:10 erasmospunk has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
990 2014-09-01 16:57:49 bmcgee has quit (Quit: bmcgee)
991 2014-09-01 16:58:56 hemry has joined
992 2014-09-01 16:59:21 <jgarzik> The new way to do decoderawtransaction:
993 2014-09-01 16:59:24 <jgarzik> $ ~/repo/bitcoin/src/bitcoin-cli getrawtransaction $hash | ~/repo/bitcoin/src/bitcoin-tx -json -
994 2014-09-01 16:59:37 <jgarzik> so nice and unix-y
995 2014-09-01 16:59:58 unkn-error has joined
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998 2014-09-01 17:00:22 <andytoshi> ooh
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1000 2014-09-01 17:01:51 John_Kenney is now known as JohnKenney
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1016 2014-09-01 17:16:48 <jgarzik> bitcoin-tx replaces: createrawtransaction, decoderawtransaction, and a few other "pure" RPC functions.
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1037 2014-09-01 17:44:37 <jgarzik> boy, hearn likes to scare people
1038 2014-09-01 17:44:43 <jgarzik> "bitcoin is really fragile"
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1046 2014-09-01 17:48:48 <btcdrak> jgarzik: maybe he is still sore from the roasting he got >_>
1047 2014-09-01 17:49:35 <jgarzik> I certainly agree that bitcoin has plenty of warts and areas that are DoS-able
1048 2014-09-01 17:49:44 <jgarzik> but disagree with "bitcoin is fragile" message
1049 2014-09-01 17:49:47 mpmcsweeney has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1050 2014-09-01 17:49:53 <jgarzik> that ignores the active response component
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1052 2014-09-01 17:51:06 _yoy_ has joined
1053 2014-09-01 17:51:06 <jgarzik> In response to a DDoS that stops transactions/blocks entirely, are stakeholders of bitcoin just going to give up, assume their bitcoins are now worthless, and move on to something else?
1054 2014-09-01 17:51:43 imfaust has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1055 2014-09-01 17:52:11 <jgarzik> oh well. Shoulda done something about $this DoS avenue. Too late now. Might as well go back to tending chickens then selling eggs via Paypal. </alt universe>
1056 2014-09-01 17:52:58 msvb-lab has joined
1057 2014-09-01 17:53:21 <jgarzik> -People- are the ultimately bitcoin backstop. People will band together and fix things.
1058 2014-09-01 17:53:41 <jgarzik> *ultimate
1059 2014-09-01 17:54:04 <jgarzik> We all sink or swim together.
1060 2014-09-01 17:54:29 * sipa hands jgarzik a 500kg physical bitcoin
1061 2014-09-01 17:54:49 * jgarzik grabs his scuba gear
1062 2014-09-01 17:55:22 unkn-error has joined
1063 2014-09-01 17:55:22 <sipa> jgarzik: hmm, my intended meaning was that v2 transaction would be treated identically to a v1 transaction
1064 2014-09-01 17:55:45 <sipa> jgarzik: as in, you have "the v1 rules, the v2 rules, the v3 rules"; v2 didn't change anything about transactions, only about blocks
1065 2014-09-01 17:55:47 msvb-lab has quit (Client Quit)
1066 2014-09-01 17:55:57 <sipa> but if that wasn't clear, i'll send a PR to clarify
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1073 2014-09-01 18:01:07 <Luke-Jr> happy programmers' day ;)
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1093 2014-09-01 18:20:22 <petertodd> jgarzik: re: DoS attacks, Bitcoin has the potential for better defenses against them than basically any P2P network ever made, because we can make them expensive! tx fees being a perfect example. worst case for any non-51% league attacker is a few days downtime while people scramble to setup a Freenet-style darknet linking trusted peers together
1094 2014-09-01 18:21:12 hanti is now known as HANTI
1095 2014-09-01 18:22:20 <petertodd> jgarzik: personally, I worry a fair bit about DoS attacks, but only because I'd rather not have even an hour of downtime, let alone a few days, and equally darknets are a pain in the ass. but it's not a "bitcoin is really fragile" level fundemental problem
1096 2014-09-01 18:22:32 boompah has joined
1097 2014-09-01 18:22:38 <boompah> Hello everyone
1098 2014-09-01 18:22:47 Grouver has joined
1099 2014-09-01 18:22:54 <boompah> :)
1100 2014-09-01 18:23:47 <jgarzik> petertodd, indeed!
1101 2014-09-01 18:25:22 oujh has joined
1102 2014-09-01 18:25:33 <petertodd> jgarzik: of course, I'm biased: stopping that tx extra data DoS attack in it's tracks is probably up there in my "proudest life moments" :P
1103 2014-09-01 18:27:19 mpmcsweeney has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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1106 2014-09-01 18:28:08 <petertodd> jgarzik: re: "people will band together" <- that bitcoin can be redefined is one of its strongest features - even a 51% attack would end up being stopped in practice as we'd just find some trusted third-parties to sign the blockchain... equally, that's probably one of the most fragile aspects of bitcoin in more sophisticated attack scenarios... but that's a #bitcoin(-wizards) discussion :)
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1109 2014-09-01 18:30:32 <uiop> if you just define "attacker" as having < 51%, 51% "attacks" become impossible. the victors just write the history books. :)
1110 2014-09-01 18:30:42 <petertodd> uiop: lol, there is that!
1111 2014-09-01 18:30:47 gingpark has joined
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1113 2014-09-01 18:31:06 <boompah> Can someone please help me with connecting to this server
1114 2014-09-01 18:31:11 <boompah> I'm having an issue doing it with my client
1115 2014-09-01 18:31:20 <petertodd> uiop: from now on I'll say "the 49% losers can redefine what bitcoin is to them"
1116 2014-09-01 18:32:24 <boompah> server: bear.freenode.net port: 6665(SSL clicked)
1117 2014-09-01 18:32:32 <boompah> Isn't that all I need to be able to connect with a client?
1118 2014-09-01 18:34:00 <uiop> petertodd: heh, "49% losers" is good
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1123 2014-09-01 18:37:13 <boompah> Does anyone here use a IRC client?
1124 2014-09-01 18:38:47 <btcdrak> irccloud
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1127 2014-09-01 18:38:48 <RBecker> we all do :P
1128 2014-09-01 18:38:55 <RBecker> boompah: ssl port is 7000
1129 2014-09-01 18:38:56 <RBecker> not 6665\
1130 2014-09-01 18:39:36 ak__ has joined
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1132 2014-09-01 18:39:50 <boompah> Thank you RBecker
1133 2014-09-01 18:39:51 <boompah> I figured haha
1134 2014-09-01 18:39:54 <boompah> just getting myself setup here
1135 2014-09-01 18:39:56 <RBecker> yw
1136 2014-09-01 18:39:59 <boompah> Which client do you prefer?
1137 2014-09-01 18:40:09 vmatekol_ has joined
1138 2014-09-01 18:40:10 <RBecker> i use mIRC
1139 2014-09-01 18:40:14 <RBecker> with a ZNC bouncer
1140 2014-09-01 18:41:36 <boompah> aargh, it's still not connecting for some reason
1141 2014-09-01 18:41:49 <petertodd> boompah: take it to #bitcoin or something, thanks
1142 2014-09-01 18:42:15 <boompah> I tried another username
1143 2014-09-01 18:42:17 <boompah> here's my settings:
1144 2014-09-01 18:42:19 <boompah> http://imgur.com/dkYCuC2
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1149 2014-09-01 18:44:23 * jgarzik arms the kicksaber
1150 2014-09-01 18:44:24 <gotboompah> Okay great
1151 2014-09-01 18:44:26 <gotboompah> I figured it out!
1152 2014-09-01 18:45:13 <jgarzik> gotboompah, not here. #bitcoin-dev is for development discussion. #bitcoin is for general bitcoin discussion.
1153 2014-09-01 18:45:58 <gotboompah> thanks jgarzik
1154 2014-09-01 18:46:07 <gotboompah> hopin' to speak about dev here though
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1165 2014-09-01 19:02:12 <blast_> Well, discussion of the ongoing bitcoin development does take place here ;]
1166 2014-09-01 19:02:23 <blast_> There is also #cyrpotodev for mroe general discussion
1167 2014-09-01 19:03:12 <blast_> #cryptodev rather, for cool crypto/bitcoin related projects ;D
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1169 2014-09-01 19:04:26 <Luke-Jr> blast_: #cryptodev is run by trolls IIRC
1170 2014-09-01 19:04:27 Adlai has joined
1171 2014-09-01 19:04:46 <blast_> :/ I DIDNT KNOW!!!! D;
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1178 2014-09-01 19:25:15 <edcba> damn #bitcoin is not joking, i understand why nobody is talking there
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1208 2014-09-01 19:53:21 <TheRelic> ello moto
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1254 2014-09-01 20:48:12 <netg_> ls bin/
1255 2014-09-01 20:48:14 <netg_> cd bin
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1261 2014-09-01 21:04:21 <cfields> sipa: still around?
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1264 2014-09-01 21:04:58 <cfields> if so, how interested are you in a native secp256 bignum impl?
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1267 2014-09-01 21:05:39 <sipa> cfields: if that is competitive with gmp, absolutely
1268 2014-09-01 21:05:52 <cfields> personally, i'd really like to have that available for the script lib, when that comes about, in order to drop the big dep there
1269 2014-09-01 21:06:37 <cfields> sipa: heh ok.. how about if it were way more on the naive side? better than nothing, or added burden to carry?
1270 2014-09-01 21:06:47 <sipa> if not... there are potential optimizations that may make the importance of bignum performance drop dramatically
1271 2014-09-01 21:06:48 Neozonz has joined
1272 2014-09-01 21:07:48 <sipa> so i guess if there is a functionally complete native bignum, i'd merge it, even if just as a reference implementation with pessimal performance
1273 2014-09-01 21:08:14 <cfields> ok, i think i'm interested in taking that on
1274 2014-09-01 21:08:16 <sipa> the only important part for performance is the modular inverse, which is pretty nontrivial to get fast
1275 2014-09-01 21:08:48 hemry has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
1276 2014-09-01 21:08:59 <cfields> i spent a good amount of time looking into our build and what the complications will be when it comes to shipping shared libs
1277 2014-09-01 21:09:08 <sipa> for reference: gmp's modular inverse is around 10us
1278 2014-09-01 21:09:16 <sipa> openssl's is around 20 or 30us
1279 2014-09-01 21:09:21 <Luke-Jr> what's wrong with gmp?
1280 2014-09-01 21:09:27 <sipa> an entire verification is 80-100us
1281 2014-09-01 21:09:30 <cfields> much of them stem from dealing with our dependencies. I think time would be better spent on dropping those dependencies rather than figuring out how to cope with them
1282 2014-09-01 21:09:39 <cfields> sipa: ok, will have a look
1283 2014-09-01 21:09:40 Neozonz has quit (Disc!~Neozonz@unaffiliated/neozonz|Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1284 2014-09-01 21:09:45 <sipa> so a naive implementation will likely very signiciantly hurt verification speed
1285 2014-09-01 21:09:47 <Luke-Jr> trying to reinvent dependencies does not seem useful
1286 2014-09-01 21:10:10 <cfields> isn't libsecp256k1 a reinvention?
1287 2014-09-01 21:10:18 <Luke-Jr> cfields: it's a specialisation
1288 2014-09-01 21:10:21 MingwBUGS has joined
1289 2014-09-01 21:10:23 <cfields> exactly :)
1290 2014-09-01 21:10:30 <Luke-Jr> and OpenSSL is a particularly problematic dependency
1291 2014-09-01 21:10:31 <gmaxwell> Luke-Jr: GMP is a huge codebase, it's not necessarily well audited for our purposes (same story as openssl). It's also LGPL, which is more restrictively licensed than libsecp256k1
1292 2014-09-01 21:10:47 <MingwBUGS> Hello all
1293 2014-09-01 21:10:51 <sipa> there is some tiny gmp project, with naive but very tiny implementations of the same api
1294 2014-09-01 21:11:03 <cfields> sipa: yes, i saw it
1295 2014-09-01 21:11:08 <gmaxwell> wrt specializationâ in particular, nothing in GMP is constant time... which we'd want to move towards.
1296 2014-09-01 21:11:09 <cfields> attached to haskell iirc?
1297 2014-09-01 21:11:37 <sipa> which reminds me... get rid of the division requirement for bignum
1298 2014-09-01 21:11:41 <gmaxwell> libsecp256k1 also uses very little of GMP.
1299 2014-09-01 21:12:01 <MingwBUGS> Something here can help me with Mingw compilation ? everything is already setting up. But i'me getting just an error.. can't find lcrypto lssl and ldb_cxx ..
1300 2014-09-01 21:12:10 <Luke-Jr> wouldn't the logical step be to modify libsecp256k1 to not use bignums at all? or is that impractical for some reason?
1301 2014-09-01 21:12:25 <gmaxwell> sipa: did we ever decide if the inversion elimination in verification I suggested was safe?
1302 2014-09-01 21:12:33 <sipa> gmaxwell: i can't remember
1303 2014-09-01 21:12:43 <gmaxwell> Luke-Jr: it nearly doesn't.
1304 2014-09-01 21:12:44 mpmcsweeney is now known as mpm_
1305 2014-09-01 21:12:45 <sipa> Luke-Jr: well we need something to do modular inverses on 256-bit integers
1306 2014-09-01 21:12:46 <Luke-Jr> MingwBUGS: on Linux?
1307 2014-09-01 21:12:58 <gmaxwell> (which is why its so easy for it to switch between libcrypto and gmp)
1308 2014-09-01 21:13:41 <cfields> sipa: iirc there's also been a proposed bignum and/or 256bit int for c++1y (can't remember which)
1309 2014-09-01 21:13:50 <cfields> figured that might make for a useful reference as well
1310 2014-09-01 21:13:57 <gmaxwell> unlikely.
1311 2014-09-01 21:14:07 <sipa> i think it's unlikely to have modular inverses :)
1312 2014-09-01 21:14:13 tombtc has quit (Quit: quit)
1313 2014-09-01 21:14:28 HANTI is now known as hanti
1314 2014-09-01 21:14:44 <sipa> gmaxwell: ack #57?
1315 2014-09-01 21:15:28 <cfields> sipa: well, i'll see what i can come up with. i'm very green on these operations, so i think it'd be a good learning experience anyway
1316 2014-09-01 21:15:54 <sipa> uint256 in bitcoin has most of them already :)
1317 2014-09-01 21:15:59 <sipa> ... except the really interesting one
1318 2014-09-01 21:16:36 <cfields> ok great, that answers another question i forgot to ask :)
1319 2014-09-01 21:17:21 <sipa> oh, these bignums need 512-bit space + sign
1320 2014-09-01 21:17:47 <MingwBUGS> Luke-Jr mingw
1321 2014-09-01 21:18:05 <MingwBUGS> Luke-Jr does it's possible to compile under Linux for windows?
1322 2014-09-01 21:18:20 <Luke-Jr> MingwBUGS: that's the way it's usually done
1323 2014-09-01 21:18:23 <Luke-Jr> mingw runs on Linux
1324 2014-09-01 21:18:25 <gmaxwell> sipa: IIRC we only need a mod inverse mod the orderâ you're already using one for the field that makes use of the speak strucure of the field prime, right?
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1330 2014-09-01 21:20:08 <MingwBUGS> Luke-Jr are you telling me that i can make the build for windows users on linux ?
1331 2014-09-01 21:20:10 <MingwBUGS> o.O
1332 2014-09-01 21:20:38 <gmaxwell> MingwBUGS: this is how all our binaries for windows are done (and the same is true for a lot of software).
1333 2014-09-01 21:20:39 <sipa> MingwBUGS: even stronger: almost every bitcoin build is done on linux
1334 2014-09-01 21:21:27 justpokinround has joined
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1336 2014-09-01 21:21:41 <cfields> MingwBUGS: make -C depends HOST=x86_64-w64-mingw32 && ./autogen.sh && ./configure --prefix=`pwd`/depends/x86_64-w64-mingw32 && make
1337 2014-09-01 21:22:32 <MingwBUGS> cfields i'm making with .pro file..
1338 2014-09-01 21:22:44 <MingwBUGS> cfields that doent work.
1339 2014-09-01 21:22:44 <cfields> i doubt it :)
1340 2014-09-01 21:23:06 <MingwBUGS> sipa , so how should I do on linux ?
1341 2014-09-01 21:23:25 oujh has joined
1342 2014-09-01 21:23:28 <MingwBUGS> Since i've got already the deps , i made -qt for linux users.
1343 2014-09-01 21:23:39 <sipa> ./autogen.sh && ./configure && make
1344 2014-09-01 21:23:43 <MingwBUGS> So should be able to make the windows -qt on the linux
1345 2014-09-01 21:23:55 <Luke-Jr> ./configure --host=i686-pc-mingw32
1346 2014-09-01 21:24:07 justanotheruser has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
1347 2014-09-01 21:24:08 <MingwBUGS> I don't have autogen..
1348 2014-09-01 21:24:15 <MingwBUGS> this coe got .pro file.
1349 2014-09-01 21:24:19 <MingwBUGS> code*
1350 2014-09-01 21:24:29 <cfields> MingwBUGS: are you building bitcoin or some alt?
1351 2014-09-01 21:24:32 <Luke-Jr> then it isn't Bitcoin Core
1352 2014-09-01 21:24:50 zedsdead has joined
1353 2014-09-01 21:24:58 <MingwBUGS> Luke-Jr it isn't.
1354 2014-09-01 21:25:17 <sipa> we got rid of the previous build system and don't maintain it anymore
1355 2014-09-01 21:25:27 <sipa> we don't support other codebases
1356 2014-09-01 21:25:35 <Luke-Jr> MingwBUGS: then it's off-topic, since I don't know any maintained Bitcoin Core forks
1357 2014-09-01 21:25:53 <MingwBUGS> Luke-Jr can you talk at altcoin-dev then ?
1358 2014-09-01 21:26:16 <sipa> you're welcome to ask there; i don't expect many people here to care
1359 2014-09-01 21:26:29 <MingwBUGS> ok
1360 2014-09-01 21:27:00 <MingwBUGS> I understand.. But I know that this must sth easy.. maybe a wrong path.. but i've checked everything. Im just expecting to get someone expert on this already.
1361 2014-09-01 21:27:10 <MingwBUGS> Im quite new to windows.. i prefer linux.
1362 2014-09-01 21:27:28 <sipa> sorry; can't help you here
1363 2014-09-01 21:27:30 <MingwBUGS> but as I read everywhere, i cant build the qt for windws using linux.
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1370 2014-09-01 21:37:11 <andytoshi> how does bitcoind's addrindex handle address reuse, from a UI perspective?
1371 2014-09-01 21:37:31 <Luke-Jr> andytoshi: it doesn't have an addrindexâ¦
1372 2014-09-01 21:37:48 <andytoshi> Luke-Jr: oh, ok. you have one though right? how do you handle it?
1373 2014-09-01 21:37:57 <Luke-Jr> andytoshi: sipa has one, without a UI
1374 2014-09-01 21:38:06 <Luke-Jr> and apparently known bugs with unknown cause
1375 2014-09-01 21:38:32 <Luke-Jr> I have an independent one.. but still no UI
1376 2014-09-01 21:39:09 <sipa> i discontinued the patch
1377 2014-09-01 21:39:09 <andytoshi> ok, thx, i'll think about it
1378 2014-09-01 21:39:19 chax has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1379 2014-09-01 21:39:26 <sipa> someone else took it over, but i don't know the current state
1380 2014-09-01 21:39:54 el33th4x0r has joined
1381 2014-09-01 21:39:57 <sipa> when i wrote it, it simply maintained a set of tx references for every output script
1382 2014-09-01 21:40:04 smorim has joined
1383 2014-09-01 21:40:05 <joedoe-> MingwBUGS: find gitan specs on github. everything is there
1384 2014-09-01 21:40:15 <andytoshi> gross, i guess that's what i'll have to do
1385 2014-09-01 21:40:33 <sipa> why do you need an address index in the first place?
1386 2014-09-01 21:40:35 <joedoe-> you dont have to use gitan, just use those scripts as instruction
1387 2014-09-01 21:40:54 <sipa> it has its uses, but mostly for debugging
1388 2014-09-01 21:41:18 <sipa> for anything else it's just the easy but badly scalable solution
1389 2014-09-01 21:41:20 <andytoshi> sipa: i am playing around with having a (prefix-filtered by HMAC(master key, scriptpubkey) addrindex so that i can load wallets quickly
1390 2014-09-01 21:41:27 <sipa> bah!
1391 2014-09-01 21:41:27 <andytoshi> for wizards-wallet
1392 2014-09-01 21:42:18 <andytoshi> if i can build the index fast (like in a couple seconds) on startup i'll be happy
1393 2014-09-01 21:42:20 <sipa> (which is exactly why i didn't continue the patch - i consider writing a wallet on top of it abuse)
1394 2014-09-01 21:42:41 <Luke-Jr> andytoshi: lol?
1395 2014-09-01 21:42:55 gotboompah has joined
1396 2014-09-01 21:43:01 gingpark1 has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
1397 2014-09-01 21:43:04 <sipa> you can read through 20 GB in a few seconds?
1398 2014-09-01 21:43:07 <Luke-Jr> andytoshi: no matter how you do it, the index is huge and slow to generate
1399 2014-09-01 21:43:16 <andytoshi> sipa: just the utxoset, it's 2gb and it's in ram
1400 2014-09-01 21:43:20 <sipa> oh
1401 2014-09-01 21:43:21 <Luke-Jr> ah
1402 2014-09-01 21:43:26 <sipa> that's something else
1403 2014-09-01 21:43:26 <Luke-Jr> big difference then :P
1404 2014-09-01 21:43:31 <andytoshi> ohhh, i see what you guys were afraid of
1405 2014-09-01 21:43:33 <sipa> was never implement afaik
1406 2014-09-01 21:43:43 <hearn> bitcoinj has one of those
1407 2014-09-01 21:43:48 napedia has quit ()
1408 2014-09-01 21:43:49 <hearn> or you can use it that way
1409 2014-09-01 21:43:58 <hearn> someone contributed it a while ago. uses postgres.
1410 2014-09-01 21:44:33 <sipa> i dislike having it in core, but just because of feature creep
1411 2014-09-01 21:44:35 ebfull has quit (Quit: cya)
1412 2014-09-01 21:44:43 <sipa> no objection to having the functionality itself
1413 2014-09-01 21:44:50 <petertodd> andytoshi: you may find my merklized binary radix tree implementation useful, though it's being actively worked on as we speak: https://github.com/petertodd/python-merbinertree
1414 2014-09-01 21:45:32 <petertodd> andytoshi: certainly going to be slower than what you're using already, but you can easily turn it into a UTXO commitment generator
1415 2014-09-01 21:45:41 Quanttek has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1416 2014-09-01 21:45:48 <andytoshi> nice, i'll keep it in mind
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1418 2014-09-01 21:49:16 <sipa> gmaxwell: well, yes, a single-modulus modular inverse ladder is possible, but afaik far slower than extgcd based algorithms
1419 2014-09-01 21:49:28 <sipa> ... it's nicely constant time, though
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1422 2014-09-01 21:52:22 <gmaxwell> sipa: too bad they didn't grind the parameters to find a curve where the order was also a nicely structured prime. :P
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1424 2014-09-01 21:52:55 <sipa> gmaxwell, cfields: for a naive native (ha!) implementation, an exponentiation ladder for the modular inverse is probably the easiest decent and obviously-correct solution
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1426 2014-09-01 21:55:05 <sipa> it won't be an easy one, though...
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1430 2014-09-01 21:57:19 <blast_> BitcoinOS
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1432 2014-09-01 21:59:41 <gmaxwell> sipa: why does field.h says secp256k1_fe_inv_all is "without constant-time guarantee"?
1433 2014-09-01 22:00:40 <edcba> nobody guaranteed it maybe :p
1434 2014-09-01 22:00:57 <sipa> gmaxwell: it does not, afaict?
1435 2014-09-01 22:01:03 <edcba> "may contain bugs"
1436 2014-09-01 22:01:05 <sipa> secp256k1_fe_inv_all_var says that
1437 2014-09-01 22:02:44 <gmaxwell> oh I see.
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1440 2014-09-01 22:03:46 <gmaxwell> huh. is USE_FIELD_INV_NUM faster?
1441 2014-09-01 22:03:53 <gmaxwell> I didn't think that it was using that.
1442 2014-09-01 22:04:22 <sipa> for GMP, yes; for OpenSSL, no
1443 2014-09-01 22:04:36 <sipa> GMP's modular inverse is crazy fast
1444 2014-09-01 22:04:42 <gmaxwell> kinda hard to believe that it's faster for the generalized mersenne prime.
1445 2014-09-01 22:04:50 <gmaxwell> (unless it detects it 0_o)
1446 2014-09-01 22:06:16 <sipa> feel free to rebenchmark that
1447 2014-09-01 22:06:46 <sipa> perhaps i didn't do that benchmark again after peter dettman improved the exponentiation ladder
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1461 2014-09-01 22:17:03 <sipa> gmaxwell: actually, i do think i benchmarked it again, and decided not to change the inv implementation used for gmp
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1466 2014-09-01 22:24:43 <gmaxwell> sipa: indeed, I just benchmarked. I boggle.
1467 2014-09-01 22:24:50 <gmaxwell> it's slower.
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1477 2014-09-01 22:40:51 <sipa> gmaxwell: around 3% slower for validation as a whole...
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1512 2014-09-01 23:47:31 <grantenierman> which blockchain code is better block explorer or bitcoin abe
1513 2014-09-01 23:47:46 <grantenierman> i have a sha256 coin like bitcoin
1514 2014-09-01 23:48:32 <sipa> grantenierman: this is not #altcoin-dev
1515 2014-09-01 23:48:49 <grantenierman> yeah but these explorers are bticoin base
1516 2014-09-01 23:48:53 <grantenierman> bitcoin*
1517 2014-09-01 23:50:26 <grantenierman> and there is no altcoin-dev
1518 2014-09-01 23:50:41 <sipa> not my problem
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1520 2014-09-01 23:52:23 Adohgg is now known as P_DIDDY
1521 2014-09-01 23:52:31 <grantenierman> you are so helpfull
1522 2014-09-01 23:53:15 P_DIDDY is now known as Adohgg
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