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   7 2014-09-17 00:08:40 <earlz> Does the stratum protocol control the ntime mined for a block?
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  18 2014-09-17 00:20:44 <Luke-Jr> earlz: no, it's left entirely undefined
  19 2014-09-17 00:21:48 <earlz> So, could a malicious miner mining at a pool possibly do timestamp manipulation?
  20 2014-09-17 00:21:56 <earlz> (assuming he actually mined the block, of course)
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  22 2014-09-17 00:22:25 <earlz> Well, not just stratum, but also getblocktemplate
  23 2014-09-17 00:22:48 <earlz> I notice there is a capability for timestamp that appears to always be enabled. I wonder if pools would handle if that was not enabled
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 140 2014-09-17 03:11:02 <gmaxwel> hmm
 141 2014-09-17 03:11:08 <gmaxwel> everyone drunk here?
 142 2014-09-17 03:11:09 <gmaxwel> :)
 143 2014-09-17 03:11:33 gmaxwel is now known as bitcoin
 144 2014-09-17 03:12:29 <lifeofcray> yes
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 150 2014-09-17 03:23:35 <earlz> working on a glass of jack and coke, so yes
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 200 2014-09-17 04:44:23 <lechuga_> sipa: any chance you're up?
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 271 2014-09-17 07:06:59 <coryfields> wumpus: I'm retarded, my PR does the same thing as sipa's. just ignore.
 272 2014-09-17 07:07:48 <wumpus> well at least you agree with his approach then :)
 273 2014-09-17 07:08:06 <coryfields> sipa: ping. let me know what your next step is (re #4899) and I'll help out
 274 2014-09-17 07:08:27 <coryfields> heh yea, it's funny how similar they ended up being
 275 2014-09-17 07:09:02 <coryfields> i set out tonight to nuke that boost dependency and that was the result. should've checked the current PR's again first.
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 302 2014-09-17 07:54:33 <sipa> lechuga_: this chance is nonzero
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 304 2014-09-17 07:54:57 <sipa> gmaxwell: mildly
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 319 2014-09-17 08:15:46 <sipa> coryfields: next step? getting it merged would be nice...
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 325 2014-09-17 08:26:01 <coryfields> sipa: heh
 326 2014-09-17 08:26:34 <coryfields> sipa: i assumed your intent was to drop key.h from the script lib
 327 2014-09-17 08:27:00 <coryfields> that was what i was working on with #4934, anyway
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 334 2014-09-17 08:38:54 <sipa> coryfields: right, that too
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 542 2014-09-17 13:17:23 <jgarzik> saivann, https://bitcoin.org not working here
 543 2014-09-17 13:17:52 ak__ has joined
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 545 2014-09-17 13:19:09 <michagogo> Hm, same here
 546 2014-09-17 13:19:29 * michagogo checks http://isup.me/bitcoin.org
 547 2014-09-17 13:19:44 <michagogo> Not pinging, either
 548 2014-09-17 13:19:47 lmatteis has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
 549 2014-09-17 13:21:57 <saivann> Sigh, probably one of these strong DDoS attacks again, let me check..
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 551 2014-09-17 13:25:36 benrcole1 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 552 2014-09-17 13:25:41 <saivann> Yes, 10gbps DDoS attack,Black Lotus does not protect us against those, they nullroute the IP until the attack is under 10gbps and then automatically reenable the IP
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 555 2014-09-17 13:30:16 <phantomcircuit> saivann, srsly?
 556 2014-09-17 13:30:32 <timothy> who is black lotus?
 557 2014-09-17 13:30:41 <saivann> phantomcircuit: We've had many of these recently
 558 2014-09-17 13:30:53 <phantomcircuit> no i mean the 10gbps limit
 559 2014-09-17 13:31:01 <saivann> timothy: https://www.blacklotus.net/
 560 2014-09-17 13:31:06 x48 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 561 2014-09-17 13:31:28 <saivann> phantomcircuit: Yes sure, otherwise you need to pay the 2500$ setup fee + 500$ / month for 20gpbs
 562 2014-09-17 13:31:40 x48 has joined
 563 2014-09-17 13:31:46 <timothy> Global terabit-scale network with 480 Gbps of active DDoS mitigation capacity
 564 2014-09-17 13:32:58 <Eliel> ok, who benefits from dropping bitcoin.org? Sounds like simply a nuisance level attack.
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 574 2014-09-17 13:44:51 <michagogo> Eliel: pretty much
 575 2014-09-17 13:45:01 <michagogo> Many attacks of the sort are.
 576 2014-09-17 13:45:11 <michagogo> Freenode's a good example...
 577 2014-09-17 13:46:42 <michagogo> (also, TIL BlackLotus takes bitcoins via BitPay)
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 580 2014-09-17 13:49:29 <NewLiberty_> bitcoin short side investors may benefit.  Its a black eye, nothing fatal but may make some news.
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 583 2014-09-17 13:59:43 <phantomcircuit> saivann, so you're not using one of their dedicated boxes?
 584 2014-09-17 13:59:49 <phantomcircuit> they bill for bandwidth differently for those
 585 2014-09-17 14:00:03 <phantomcircuit> afaict it's a much much better deal
 586 2014-09-17 14:00:13 <phantomcircuit> even if you just use it as a reverse proxy
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 588 2014-09-17 14:00:43 <timothy> using cloudflare should help
 589 2014-09-17 14:00:52 <saivann> phantomcircuit, we are indeed using their dedicated server, I think that's what you're doing too
 590 2014-09-17 14:00:53 crunk-juice has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 591 2014-09-17 14:01:09 <saivann> timothy: AFAIK, Cloudflare 20gbps protection isn't cheap either
 592 2014-09-17 14:02:16 <timothy> well, but you have most than one ip (cdn)
 593 2014-09-17 14:02:20 <timothy> more(
 594 2014-09-17 14:02:37 <timothy> so it's not so easy to ddos multiple ips
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 602 2014-09-17 14:07:27 <saivann> The attack just ended
 603 2014-09-17 14:08:06 <saivann> timothy, I'll check with Black Lotus but I'll surely be considering other options too at this point.
 604 2014-09-17 14:08:55 pen has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
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 606 2014-09-17 14:11:54 <saivann> For the record, I've just got more detailed data and what we're dealing with is strong UDP flood attacks that seems to be easily scaling at will.
 607 2014-09-17 14:14:04 agricocb has quit (Read error: Connection timed out)
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 609 2014-09-17 14:15:53 <phantomcircuit> saivann, unfortunately generating a massive udp flood is pretty easy
 610 2014-09-17 14:17:08 <phantomcircuit> saivann, huh
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 612 2014-09-17 14:17:18 <phantomcircuit> i wonder if they changed their pricing structure
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 614 2014-09-17 14:18:13 <timothy> yes, botnet is a bad plague
 615 2014-09-17 14:18:22 <phantomcircuit> oh nvm i see
 616 2014-09-17 14:18:32 <phantomcircuit> at 20gbps you'd go over the clean traffic allotment in about an hour
 617 2014-09-17 14:18:41 <phantomcircuit> that's pretty lame
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 619 2014-09-17 14:20:29 <saivann> I often hear people not recommending / trusting CloudFlare, is there some good arguments against using them?
 620 2014-09-17 14:20:55 <saivann> Ah, the attack started back again..
 621 2014-09-17 14:21:03 crunk-juice has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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 623 2014-09-17 14:21:25 <timothy> we use cloudflare without many problems
 624 2014-09-17 14:21:33 <phantomcircuit> saivann, they have your private key for https for one
 625 2014-09-17 14:21:59 <timothy> forum login is not in plain text iirc
 626 2014-09-17 14:22:12 <phantomcircuit> and in general their "web 3.0" startup feel isn't a great security indicator
 627 2014-09-17 14:23:21 <phantomcircuit> and personally the fact that someone ddos'd intersango and then showed up on irc telling me to use cloudflare
 628 2014-09-17 14:23:22 <phantomcircuit> well
 629 2014-09-17 14:23:26 fanquake has quit (Quit: fanquake)
 630 2014-09-17 14:23:30 <phantomcircuit> that is quite possibly the biggest possible red flag
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 633 2014-09-17 14:26:10 <saivann> phantomcircuit: On the other hand, do you know what DDoS service we could use that would deal with our current attacks at a decent price (I'm not sure Black Lotus would succeed at 1000S/month)
 634 2014-09-17 14:26:38 <phantomcircuit> saivann, not really no
 635 2014-09-17 14:26:50 <phantomcircuit> protecting against ddos attacks is mad expensive
 636 2014-09-17 14:27:02 <phantomcircuit> bandwidth is like $1/mbps
 637 2014-09-17 14:27:12 <phantomcircuit> so their 480gbps is at least 480k/month
 638 2014-09-17 14:27:19 <saivann> I don't want to waste the Foundation's money only on DDoS attack prevention
 639 2014-09-17 14:27:43 <phantomcircuit> saivann, it's kind of a catch 22
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 641 2014-09-17 14:28:03 <phantomcircuit> the best protection tends to be limiting attackers information on how much bandwidth is available
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 643 2014-09-17 14:28:16 <phantomcircuit> since they will usually give up pretty quickly if their attack fails
 644 2014-09-17 14:28:27 <phantomcircuit> but if they know you will run out of bandwidth quota after an hour
 645 2014-09-17 14:28:31 <phantomcircuit> they keep going
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 652 2014-09-17 14:37:06 <bsm117532> Hi folks, I would like to use bitcoin with a newer libdb, in the interest of future maintenence.  libdb4.8 is not included in most distributions now, it's so old.  But compiling with newer libdb, bitcoin refuses to even create a new wallet.dat file.
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 657 2014-09-17 14:40:45 <chichov> ops
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 673 2014-09-17 14:44:58 <michagogo> bsm117532: how new?
 674 2014-09-17 14:45:07 <michagogo> I think 5.1 works, at least
 675 2014-09-17 14:45:09 <bsm117532> Anything that's actually included on modern distributions.
 676 2014-09-17 14:45:10 crunk-juice has joined
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 678 2014-09-17 14:45:39 <michagogo> Ubuntu precise ships 5.1, that works IIRC
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 681 2014-09-17 14:45:57 <bsm117532> I get on startup: "Error initializing wallet database environment!"
 682 2014-09-17 14:46:05 <michagogo> I don't know about 5.3
 683 2014-09-17 14:46:12 <michagogo> bsm117532: well, what version are you using?
 684 2014-09-17 14:47:36 <michagogo> ;;gribble
 685 2014-09-17 14:47:36 <gribble> Here's a bitcoin wiki page about gribble: http://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Gribble
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 688 2014-09-17 14:49:37 * bsm117532 goes and pokes at his libraries, which are not what he thought they were.
 689 2014-09-17 14:49:51 <bsm117532> ;;avgprc
 690 2014-09-17 14:49:53 <gribble> (avgprc <currency> <timeframe>) -- Returns volume-weighted average price data from BitcoinCharts. <currency> is a three-letter currency code, <timeframe> is the time window for the average, and can be '24h', '7d', or '30d'.
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 692 2014-09-17 14:50:04 <bsm117532> ;;avgprc BTC 24h
 693 2014-09-17 14:50:04 <gribble> Error: Data not available. Available currencies are USD, IDR, ILS, GBP, DKK, CAD, MXN, RON, XRP, SEK, SGD, HKD, AUD, CHF, KRW, CNY, LTC, NZD, THB, EUR, SLL, ARS, NOK, RUB, INR, JPY, CZK, BRL, NMC, PLN, ZAR, and available timeframes are 24h, 7d, 30d.
 694 2014-09-17 14:50:17 <bsm117532> ;;avgprc USD 24h
 695 2014-09-17 14:50:17 <gribble> 462.73
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 753 2014-09-17 15:55:09 <coryfields> sipa: cool if i continue the work to get the core headers out of script? or you have more waiting to go in (other than #4890) ?
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 773 2014-09-17 16:17:26 <RJ2> anyone know of a client-side JS lib that can validate a wallet address? (checksum/whatever)
 774 2014-09-17 16:18:21 <gmaxwell> sipa: that wasn't me, it was some imposter.
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 805 2014-09-17 16:39:19 <sipa> coryfields: jtimon had been working on that on than i did, but #4890 seemed like a neat thing that helped for that too
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 807 2014-09-17 16:41:32 <coryfields> ok
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 909 2014-09-17 18:17:30 <lifeofcray> #potatocoin now have a potatocoin tip bot
 910 2014-09-17 18:17:50 <sipa> offtopic
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 967 2014-09-17 19:15:44 <aukaicue> what determines whether a rescan gets automatically run during bitcoin-qt start?  (with -rescan flag not being passed)
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 970 2014-09-17 19:17:09 <sipa> aukaicue: the wallet stores up to what point in the chain it is synchronized
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 972 2014-09-17 19:19:01 <aukaicue> sipa, im loading up older wallets, and Im noticing a case where a rescan is needed but its not automatically being run.
 973 2014-09-17 19:19:37 <sipa> how old?
 974 2014-09-17 19:19:59 <sipa> very old software did not correctly write this marker
 975 2014-09-17 19:20:26 <aukaicue> not sure if this is normal behavior, or something to draw attention to. Im thinking it is caused by the wallet needing to be rebuilt, and then the app proceeding to load the new wallet without doing a rescan.
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 977 2014-09-17 19:21:25 <aukaicue> sipa, if its from an old version that doesnt have the market, wouldnt that be a case to trigger a rescan?
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 979 2014-09-17 19:21:43 <sipa> the market?
 980 2014-09-17 19:21:53 <aukaicue> sorry, marker
 981 2014-09-17 19:22:21 <sipa> there have been buggy versions that incorrectly wrote the marker
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 990 2014-09-17 19:26:09 <aukaicue> sipa, ok, thanks for helping me understand.
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1012 2014-09-17 19:44:21 <wallet42> anyone tried out toshi.io?
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1021 2014-09-17 19:54:20 <seangilligan> Hello
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1026 2014-09-17 19:57:30 <nullbyte> evening
1027 2014-09-17 19:57:31 <seangilligan> I'm happy to see init scripts for upstart and systemd making their way into the repository
1028 2014-09-17 19:57:33 <seangilligan> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/4124
1029 2014-09-17 19:57:48 <seangilligan> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/4611
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1031 2014-09-17 19:58:34 <seangilligan> I've looked around a little and can't find anything very informative/definitive about efforts to create an Ubuntu (debian) package for bitcoind -- where should I go to look for information on this?
1032 2014-09-17 19:59:04 <seangilligan> (There is an existing package in a PPA repo, but it doesn't have init scripts yet nor can I find the source to the package)
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1035 2014-09-17 20:00:08 <aukaicue> seangilligan, https://launchpad.net/~bitcoin/+archive/ubuntu/bitcoin
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1041 2014-09-17 20:01:49 <seangilligan> Thanks!
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1043 2014-09-17 20:02:40 <nullbyte> seangilligan, if you click through to view the package details, you'll be able to see they use a tarball of 0.9.2.1 to generate the package: https://launchpad.net/~bitcoin/+archive/ubuntu/bitcoin/+packages
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1045 2014-09-17 20:04:03 <seangilligan> Is there any known effort to update it with the upstart init scripts?
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1058 2014-09-17 20:10:54 <nullbyte> not sure, most probably not
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1081 2014-09-17 20:39:32 <seangilligan> Would it makes sense to create an Issue on Github for this?
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1109 2014-09-17 21:11:29 <nullbyte> Yes
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1133 2014-09-17 21:35:16 <Sapee> I have read about the attack to Bitcoin.org today, please try Cloudflare Pro plan (20$ monthly only)
1134 2014-09-17 21:35:27 <Sapee> The actuall host has a ping of 170ms
1135 2014-09-17 21:36:06 <Sapee> Cloudflare has stopped >300Gbps UDP attacks
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1143 2014-09-17 21:41:11 <gmaxwell> Sapee: There is no such attack. Traceroute... you're seeing some issue closer to your ISP.
1144 2014-09-17 21:41:30 <gmaxwell> The internet is like that sometimes... intermediary links get clogged for unrelate reasons.
1145 2014-09-17 21:41:58 <sipa> i can reach bitcoin.org with 29ms latency
1146 2014-09-17 21:42:24 <michagogo> Minimum = 224ms, Maximum = 348ms, Average = 263ms
1147 2014-09-17 21:42:40 <michagogo> It really depends on where you are
1148 2014-09-17 21:43:47 <michagogo> Getting 150ms from a box in the uk, I think
1149 2014-09-17 21:44:49 <yiffening> 13ms average here
1150 2014-09-17 21:45:38 <l_l_l_l_l> if this channel was busier this could become a DDOS :P
1151 2014-09-17 21:46:21 <kdomanski> funny, how often after DDoS on a Bitcoin site someone comes over and starts pitching Cloudflare
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1153 2014-09-17 21:47:04 <yiffening> but cloud!
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1156 2014-09-17 21:48:17 <gmaxwell> 'funny'
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1163 2014-09-17 21:55:42 <Sapee> Ah, i am not related with Cloudflare, I read this http://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/bitcoin-org-under-ddos-attack/
1164 2014-09-17 21:56:06 <Sapee> I am a Bitcoin Core translator (Spanish), look in Transfinex
1165 2014-09-17 21:56:30 <Sapee> Thanks for the time, thanks Gmaxwell and thanks Bitcoin
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1180 2014-09-17 22:17:30 <seangilligan> Thanks again, @aukaicue and @nullbyte
1181 2014-09-17 22:17:51 <seangilligan> I created Issue #4935: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/4935
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1188 2014-09-17 22:23:24 <droark> sipa: What's the maturity status of libsecp256k1? If I were to fold it into a project of mine, would I be crazy? :)
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1190 2014-09-17 22:23:49 <sipa> droark: i make no guarantees; use at your own risk
1191 2014-09-17 22:25:10 <droark> Thanks, and understood. Was just curious where it's at since commits seem to have slowed down a bit.
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1193 2014-09-17 22:28:45 <Sapee> Cloudflare response to the SSL private key problem: "We're looking at a possible solution to this because we have had some corporations voice a similar concern (regulatory issues). Based on what I know at this point, however, it would be limited to domains on an Enterprise plan."
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1196 2014-09-17 22:30:07 <Azelphur> I have an idea for implementing a "Sign in with Bitcoin" type mechanism on websites, with integration into Bitcoin clients that utilises message signing, here's a rough draft of how it would work. http://pastebin.com/VLD0q8Cx does anyone have any feedback on that? :)
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1210 2014-09-17 22:52:52 <seangilligan> Azelphur, how does your idea compare to BitAuth? https://github.com/bitpay/bitauth
1211 2014-09-17 22:53:16 <Azelphur> seangilligan: never seen it before, does it work like gribble?
1212 2014-09-17 22:53:32 <seangilligan> I've never heard of gribble
1213 2014-09-17 22:53:47 <seangilligan> And only read about BitAuth a little
1214 2014-09-17 22:53:53 <seangilligan> But curious about the basic idea
1215 2014-09-17 22:53:58 <Azelphur> seangilligan: does this store private keys in the browser, and then have the browser sign messages?
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1219 2014-09-17 22:54:53 <seangilligan> I think it's intended for web services
1220 2014-09-17 22:54:56 <Azelphur> looks like it does
1221 2014-09-17 22:55:05 <seangilligan> But if they're being used in the browser, yes
1222 2014-09-17 22:55:16 <Azelphur> seangilligan: mine is slightly different then, this has the private key in the browser, which is an interesting approach
1223 2014-09-17 22:55:32 <Azelphur> my way would actually request a message be signed by whatever wallet you have installed (eg electrum, bitcoin-qt)
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1225 2014-09-17 22:56:46 <seangilligan> Your method has some advantages
1226 2014-09-17 22:56:59 <Azelphur> maybe so, I just found this actually, it seems to have been discussed at length a while ago, http://sourceforge.net/p/bitcoin/mailman/message/29076261/
1227 2014-09-17 22:57:56 <Azelphur> just seems to have never been implemented
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