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  49 2014-09-20 01:21:08 <agorist000> Can anybody explain why we're not supporting nLockTime?
  50 2014-09-20 01:21:57 <sipa> nLockTime works and always has (as a consensus rule)
  51 2014-09-20 01:22:54 <agorist000> then why can't I create time-locked transactions without them being thrown out by bitcoind as "non-canonical" ?
  52 2014-09-20 01:23:08 <phantomcircuit> because it's a DoS vector
  53 2014-09-20 01:23:22 <phantomcircuit> you just keep adjusting the nLockTime value
  54 2014-09-20 01:23:36 <sipa> non-canonical?
  55 2014-09-20 01:23:46 <agorist000> sipa, yes
  56 2014-09-20 01:23:47 <sipa> it shouldn't throw them about because of that reason
  57 2014-09-20 01:23:59 <sipa> sure your transaction isn't just noncanonical for other reasons?
  58 2014-09-20 01:24:24 <sipa> note that bitcoind _will_ not accept non-final transactions to its mempool
  59 2014-09-20 01:24:27 <agorist000> I suppose its possible
  60 2014-09-20 01:24:41 <sipa> but timelocked and final transactions are valid inside blocks
  61 2014-09-20 01:24:55 <sipa> consistent with timelock rules
  62 2014-09-20 01:25:35 <agorist000> so timelock is supported regardless of being a "DoS vector' ?
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  64 2014-09-20 01:26:04 <sipa> timelocking is a consensus rule; it cannot be changed without a hardforking change
  65 2014-09-20 01:26:19 <sipa> but the only thing that consensus rules govern is whether a transaction is valid in a block or not
  66 2014-09-20 01:26:44 <sipa> what is accepted into the mempool is subject to local policy
  67 2014-09-20 01:26:56 <phantomcircuit> sipa, he's saying it's being rejected by the mempool
  68 2014-09-20 01:27:01 <sipa> and non-final transactions are currently not accepted into the mempool because of DoS rules
  69 2014-09-20 01:27:06 <phantomcircuit> which is what happens i believe because they're non final
  70 2014-09-20 01:27:09 <sipa> indeed
  71 2014-09-20 01:27:20 <sipa> but that is completely independent of whether timelock works or not
  72 2014-09-20 01:27:28 <sipa> the rule is that non-final things are not accepted :)
  73 2014-09-20 01:28:05 <agorist000> maybe I'm just unsure of what final means exactly
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  75 2014-09-20 01:30:26 <sipa> final means (no locktime) OR (locktime in the past) OR (all inputs final
  76 2014-09-20 01:30:41 <sipa> an input is final when its sequence number is 0xFFFFFFFF
  77 2014-09-20 01:30:58 <agorist000> if a tx is final, sequence must be uint max? Which means timelock is ignored...
  78 2014-09-20 01:31:13 <agorist000> Am I missgin something?
  79 2014-09-20 01:31:17 <sipa> reread my sentence
  80 2014-09-20 01:31:48 <sipa> either of those 3 conditions is enough for finality
  81 2014-09-20 01:32:04 <agorist000> okay so if timelock is past, it should propagate and be included in blocks?
  82 2014-09-20 01:32:09 <sipa> yes
  83 2014-09-20 01:32:37 <sipa> but if bitcoind complains that it's noncanonical, you have an unrelated problem in your transaction
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  85 2014-09-20 01:33:32 <agorist000> so then timelock is fully suppported, but sequencing is not? Because all but last in sequence are not final, which can be used for DoS somehow
  86 2014-09-20 01:33:57 <sipa> the DoS potential is in relaying non-final transactions, because they can't be accepted into blocks
  87 2014-09-20 01:34:11 <agorist000> Aha, that makes sense.
  88 2014-09-20 01:34:13 <sipa> the reason for non-finality is irrelevant
  89 2014-09-20 01:34:20 <agorist000> Thank you.
  90 2014-09-20 01:34:25 <sipa> yw
  91 2014-09-20 01:35:19 <DiabloD3> https://github.com/vladikoff/chromeos-apk/blob/master/README.md
  92 2014-09-20 01:35:32 <DiabloD3> tthis might be useful for android client devs
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 183 2014-09-20 03:59:23 <dabura667> Could anyone give me a ballpark figure on how many bytes that a new address generated by getaddress() would add to an encrypted wallet file?
 184 2014-09-20 04:01:31 <dabura667> err sorry, not getaddress() but I mean clicking "Add new" in the receiving address window.
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 232 2014-09-20 05:37:03 <dcousens> dabura667: are you referring to the standard client with that question?
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 235 2014-09-20 05:37:58 <dcousens> a private key is 32  bytes (padded), with an optional compression flag... in its more raw form anyway.  If you start encoding more information than that, obviously the size will increase
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 295 2014-09-20 06:28:30 <sipa> dabura667: around a 100 i guess
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 297 2014-09-20 06:29:08 <dabura667> Could you please elaborate?
 298 2014-09-20 06:29:54 <dabura667> Meaning that creating a new key will increase file size by 100 bytes? How does it affect the key pool?
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 300 2014-09-20 06:30:10 <sipa> define 'create a new key'
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 304 2014-09-20 06:32:30 <wumpus> it removes a key from the key pool and puts it into active use, if the wallet is encrypted it will not immediately renew the keypool so there will be a key less in it
 305 2014-09-20 06:35:13 <dabura667> wumpus: thanks. So the encrypted file will only increase in size after it runs out of keys in the key pool. When the key pool runs out does it automatically refill with 100 keys or do you have to run the rpc call to refill the pool?
 306 2014-09-20 06:35:49 <wumpus> it does automatically so but only on the next 'walletpassphrase'
 307 2014-09-20 06:35:53 <sipa> every time a key is used, the keypool is refilled to stay at 100 unused keys
 308 2014-09-20 06:36:08 <sipa> for an encrypted wallet, only when the passphrase is available
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 310 2014-09-20 06:37:31 <wumpus> I'm fairly sure the wallet file will still increase in size though, as meta-information such as a label is added
 311 2014-09-20 06:38:49 <wumpus> I wouldn't be concerned about that, generally it's transactions that take up lots of space in a wallet, not keys and related info
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 488 2014-09-20 11:49:33 <firelegend> I am trying to compile the latest git master, but the configure process is failing on the boost library. I have boost v 1.50 and have compiled bitcoin-qt and the daemon before, but the new build system is giving me error messages, some I manually removed from the configure, but now I "No working boost sleep implementation found."
 489 2014-09-20 11:50:15 <firelegend> I am unsure how to debug this problem.
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 492 2014-09-20 11:59:09 <firelegend> fixed it, thanks to the config.log
 493 2014-09-20 11:59:32 <firelegend> seems like when you specify BOOST_LDLAGS, you need to supply the path as -L/path/ rather than just the path
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 497 2014-09-20 12:06:33 <firelegend> there is also a missing stdlib.h include in utilstrencodings.cpp, as g++ complained that strtol and strtoll were missing
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 500 2014-09-20 12:06:50 <firelegend> well, stdlib I suppose in C++'s case
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 554 2014-09-20 13:42:53 <wumpus> do you have any special warning flags on? I see no complaints while compiling strencodings.cpp
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 562 2014-09-20 14:10:25 <firelegend> None that I know of
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 594 2014-09-20 14:48:33 <lyspooner> in version 0.9.1 i sent coins to a few addresses in my wallet, it showed a balance of X.  i then encrypted my wallet and now it shows a balance of less than X.  Some of the transactions which looked fine before the encryption are now showing a status of "Conflicted"  a little help?
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 623 2014-09-20 15:47:48 <Happzz> technically speaking, how do "coin mixers" work?
 624 2014-09-20 15:48:16 <Happzz> end user creates a transaction using his input, to some output
 625 2014-09-20 15:48:18 <belcher> that word has a few meanings
 626 2014-09-20 15:48:23 <belcher> read the coinjoin thread for one kind
 627 2014-09-20 15:48:27 <Happzz> thanks
 628 2014-09-20 15:48:38 <belcher> another kind, like bitcoinfog just have a lot of bitcoin outputs
 629 2014-09-20 15:48:47 <belcher> and you send a different output when you send them some btc
 630 2014-09-20 15:48:59 <Happzz> that's prone to a scam from their side, right?
 631 2014-09-20 15:49:04 <belcher> yeah, centralized
 632 2014-09-20 15:49:15 <Happzz> i mean, the whole point is that the 'mixer' cant scam everyone
 633 2014-09-20 15:49:27 <belcher> of coinjoin? yeah thats part of it
 634 2014-09-20 15:49:38 <Happzz> gonna read the coinjoin thread and then bother you with relevant questions
 635 2014-09-20 15:57:00 <Happzz> how do you actually perform a coinjoin, like explained, technically?
 636 2014-09-20 15:57:45 <Happzz> collect all inputs details from everyone, create a tx with the correct outputs, pass around so everyone signs the tx?
 637 2014-09-20 15:58:13 <belcher> yeah
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 643 2014-09-20 16:04:09 <theadmin`> anybody know how to force close wallets in multibit?
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 645 2014-09-20 16:04:52 <Happzz> belcher i'd need to collect all the info, create the full tx and only then start signing people, right?
 646 2014-09-20 16:05:11 <belcher> yeah
 647 2014-09-20 16:05:13 <Happzz> i mean, i can't collect half the inputs, half the outputs, sign it, then add more stuff and sign again?
 648 2014-09-20 16:05:22 <belcher> that would invalidate the earlier signatures
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 670 2014-09-20 16:37:50 <sipa> petertodd: bip30/34 have nothing to do with the double-hash-merkle-tree weirdness
 671 2014-09-20 16:38:15 <sipa> the latter was fixed by considering blocks with duplicate txids as if their merkle root was invalid
 672 2014-09-20 16:39:34 <sipa> bip30/34 were about preventing (u)txo entries from being overwritten
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 678 2014-09-20 16:50:27 <ahmed_> in the bitcoin wiki. for the poolserver section
 679 2014-09-20 16:50:41 <ahmed_> can i include features that a fork of slush's stratum-mining has
 680 2014-09-20 16:50:54 <ahmed_> (for example the share logging, merged mining etc)
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 690 2014-09-20 17:07:24 <jgarzik> Some guy "godundoxable" (twitter @SoH4rd) is sniffing around in a harassing and threatening manner.  Just FYI, if you see one of my accounts do something weird. (PGP-signed version of same at http://gtf.org/garzik/misc/psa.txt )
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 695 2014-09-20 17:10:41 <amaclin> seems to me that bitcoin has one another problem. centralization of channels https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=766190.0
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 702 2014-09-20 17:22:07 <petertodd> sipa: right, but the root cause was still the merkle tree weirdness; you think referencing the CVE for that exploit would be better?
 703 2014-09-20 17:22:18 <sipa> no
 704 2014-09-20 17:22:24 <sipa> they are completely independent problems
 705 2014-09-20 17:22:31 <sipa> fixed in a completely independent manner
 706 2014-09-20 17:22:37 <sipa> or am i missing something?
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 709 2014-09-20 17:24:07 <petertodd> sipa: well CVE-2012-2459 is the block hash collision issue, where two separate blocks have the same hash but different contents - that's probably the more fundemental issue at hand, which is that the contents of the tree the merkleroot commits to isn't unique
 710 2014-09-20 17:24:46 <sipa> yes, but that CVE has nothing to do with BIP30/34
 711 2014-09-20 17:24:59 <petertodd> sipa: yeah, I see your point there
 712 2014-09-20 17:25:16 <petertodd> sipa: ok, so I'll replace the references to that BIP with a reference to the CVE instead
 713 2014-09-20 17:25:31 <sipa> ok
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 722 2014-09-20 17:32:33 <petertodd> sipa: fixed
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 793 2014-09-20 18:58:04 <jgarzik> Sigh. Under active online attack right now.  Be vigilant.  Ask for PGP verification.
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 795 2014-09-20 19:00:05 <Eliel> a form of social engineering attack?
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 821 2014-09-20 19:34:47 <BlueMatt> were there any recent segfault fixes on bitcoin?
 822 2014-09-20 19:34:58 <BlueMatt> specifically, between f7cdcb80ab7016e33e8399df796885ce54eb63b0 and master?
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 825 2014-09-20 19:41:40 * BlueMatt has backtrace/core dump if anyone is interested
 826 2014-09-20 19:41:49 <BlueMatt> dont have time atm to look into it myself
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 828 2014-09-20 19:43:00 <gmaxwell> BlueMatt: can you send me the backtrace, I'll at least see if rings any bells.
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 830 2014-09-20 19:49:54 <gmaxwell> BlueMatt: from the backtrace I think you hit the issue fixed by def2fdb4b9b52fa908c11fe2f5a42ea04f8e9f11
 831 2014-09-20 19:50:19 <gmaxwell> yep, that issue was introduced at 8bc0a0173e885a5b60e12d3769604236967c262e
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 844 2014-09-20 20:15:46 <jgarzik> Eliel, yep
 845 2014-09-20 20:16:02 <jgarzik> + SWAT'ing threats and other fun now
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 848 2014-09-20 20:21:53 <petertodd> jgarzik: having people know where you live sucks
 849 2014-09-20 20:22:04 <petertodd> jgarzik: good luck, hope your family's safe
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 857 2014-09-20 20:32:25 <jgarzik> petertodd, Sadly inevitable if you ever want to own property in the US
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 868 2014-09-20 20:38:38 <gmaxwell> jgarzik: It seems like you can have a trust own the property and make the records at least require multiple offline steps to unravel.
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 873 2014-09-20 20:44:13 <phantomcircuit> jgarzik, anonymously held company owns the property, only name on the records is your lawyers, who is bound by attorney client privilege not to divulge who you are
 874 2014-09-20 20:44:57 <jgarzik> indeed, you can do some of that
 875 2014-09-20 20:45:45 <jgarzik> the downside is hiding where you live socially, plus having to move from current loc, plus vastly increased difficulty in maintaining basic services like phone/util/etc. when they are not directly in your name.  disaster recovery becomes more difficult.
 876 2014-09-20 20:46:40 <jgarzik> Violent threats -> reported to proper authorities
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 880 2014-09-20 20:58:41 <phantomcircuit> jgarzik, utilities and stuff is easy, but more expensive
 881 2014-09-20 20:58:46 <phantomcircuit> business class everything
 882 2014-09-20 20:59:20 <jgarzik> that handles the hiding part, but business are usually easily to hack than consumers, in terms of account reset procedures
 883 2014-09-20 20:59:27 <jgarzik> *easier
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 889 2014-09-20 21:09:12 <phantomcircuit> jgarzik, afraid someone is going to hack your electric bill?
 890 2014-09-20 21:09:31 <spinza> Ouch has someone published your address?  Sorry to hear.
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 895 2014-09-20 21:18:14 <jgarzik> spinza, Address is not hard to find at all.  Sadly that's public life for ya.
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 897 2014-09-20 21:18:35 <spinza> yeah should be easy
 898 2014-09-20 21:18:40 <spinza> property records are public
 899 2014-09-20 21:18:50 <spinza> still not nice
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 905 2014-09-20 21:27:06 <kdomanski__> so, is it true that SWAT can murder you with compete impunity because "they though you had a gun"?
 906 2014-09-20 21:27:18 <kdomanski__> s/compete/complete/
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 909 2014-09-20 21:29:18 <firelegend> I thought regular cops do that quite often
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 962 2014-09-20 22:52:04 <lechuga_> is it known that bitcoind returns an address computed with the hash160 of an empty string in the case of invalid pubkeys in the multisig script?
 963 2014-09-20 22:52:32 <lechuga_> for decoderawtransaction
 964 2014-09-20 22:52:36 <lechuga_> etc
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 966 2014-09-20 22:54:03 <sipa> this rings a bell, but i'm surprised it's not fixed yet
 967 2014-09-20 22:54:37 <lechuga_> https://github.com/coinbase/toshi/issues/76
 968 2014-09-20 22:54:41 <lechuga_> what's the right thing to do?
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 970 2014-09-20 22:56:37 <lechuga_> i'd lean towards omitting the invalid key from "addresses" as bitcoin-ruby does
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 984 2014-09-20 23:23:08 <Luke-Jr> lechuga_: I thought that was fixed a long time ago
 985 2014-09-20 23:23:47 <gmaxwell> silently ignoring bad input is ... yuck.
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 987 2014-09-20 23:25:44 <Luke-Jr> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/1850
 988 2014-09-20 23:25:53 <Luke-Jr> maybe doesn't help the decode case.
 989 2014-09-20 23:26:22 <Luke-Jr> Perhaps CBitcoinAddress needs a refactor so this bug cannot happen..
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1004 2014-09-20 23:42:13 <lechuga_> Luke-Jr: ah that may be best
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