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  92 2014-09-23 02:33:06 <dabura667> Anyone know if any of the javascript libraries for bitcoin can handle basic calculations between bases in bigint?
  93 2014-09-23 02:33:33 <dabura667> I am looking for something like parseInt() but where the integer that comes out is a bigint
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 100 2014-09-23 02:39:01 <SomeoneWeird> dabura667: there are bignum implementations in js
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 102 2014-09-23 02:39:24 <SomeoneWeird> wait that might not be what you're asking
 103 2014-09-23 02:39:26 * SomeoneWeird shrugs
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 110 2014-09-23 02:51:24 <phantomcircuit> dabura667, whatever you're thinking of doing, i would suggest asking very specifically for advise on how to do it
 111 2014-09-23 02:51:39 <phantomcircuit> more than likely the answer will be that whatever it is, is not safe
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 115 2014-09-23 02:54:54 <dabura667> converting base 6 dice rolls into hex
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 118 2014-09-23 02:55:43 <dabura667> phantomcircuit: similar to what you can do in bitaddress
 119 2014-09-23 02:56:33 <dabura667> I kind of answered my own question there... *runs off to check bitaddress source*
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 124 2014-09-23 02:58:48 <phantomcircuit> dabura667, as in literally someone rolling dice?
 125 2014-09-23 02:59:31 * gmaxwell places a bet on 'throws out your dice information and uses math.random()'
 126 2014-09-23 03:00:06 * sipa invokes xkcd 221
 127 2014-09-23 03:00:11 <dabura667> gmaxwell: great solution. thanks everybody *walks away*
 128 2014-09-23 03:00:24 <dabura667> j/k
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 130 2014-09-23 03:00:35 <dabura667> literally someone throwing dice.
 131 2014-09-23 03:01:04 <gmaxwell> dabura667: it's quite difficult to get a uniform random number over some range. The safest thing to do is just to capture an interger on a unform range strictly larger and then throw out if your value is too big.
 132 2014-09-23 03:01:37 <phantomcircuit> gmaxwell, he's trying to generate private keys with dice rolls
 133 2014-09-23 03:01:47 <phantomcircuit> dabura667, amirite
 134 2014-09-23 03:02:41 <dabura667> pretty much. Except BIP39 phrases, but yeah.
 135 2014-09-23 03:04:13 <dabura667> gmaxwell: I am searching for sweet spots, 6^53 is very close to a multiple of 2^128, so I am thinking 53 times exactly for a 12 word seed.
 136 2014-09-23 03:06:21 <dabura667> or I could just go eat pizza and make the function just be return 4;
 137 2014-09-23 03:06:44 <dabura667> choices...
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 139 2014-09-23 03:08:47 <gmaxwell> 53?! you'll almost always have to reroll in that. Perhaps you meant 50? That has a failure probability of about 57%
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 144 2014-09-23 03:11:49 <sipa> you can roll 53 times, and then divide the result by 512
 145 2014-09-23 03:12:51 <gmaxwell> Yea, 53 into 137 bits is a .2% failure rate.
 146 2014-09-23 03:14:12 <gmaxwell> still kinda high. You could just go compute the expected number of dice rolls for each n over 128, perhaps some other one is better.
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 156 2014-09-23 03:27:58 <dabura667> sorry for my ignorance. why is 53 bad? the number space provided by 6^53 / 2^128 = 513.07024... meaning if I mod by 2^128, the resulting number of 6^53 will only overlap the lower 7% of the number space. Plus taking into count that it's passing over the whole space 513 times, that would lower the probability of getting those lower 7% significantly... unless
 157 2014-09-23 03:27:58 <dabura667> I am missing some mathematical theorem that is common knowledge amongst you all.
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 160 2014-09-23 03:30:30 <dabura667> btw 6^50 / 2^128 is 2.3753... so the lower 38% of the number space is highly weighted and much more likely to appear when modded by 2^128
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 164 2014-09-23 03:32:03 <dabura667> again... if there's some sort of theory that is behind choosing the proper number of dice rolls for a given number space I would love to learn... (actually, I would appreciate it greatly)
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 167 2014-09-23 03:32:28 <gmaxwell> dabura667: you discard if the number is too big to achieve perfect uniformity.
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 169 2014-09-23 03:33:44 <dabura667> gmaxwell: ok, that makes sense. What were you talking about with failure rate?
 170 2014-09-23 03:34:07 <gmaxwell> How likely you are to need to discard.
 171 2014-09-23 03:34:27 <dabura667> oh I see
 172 2014-09-23 03:34:59 <dabura667> ok that makes sense.
 173 2014-09-23 03:35:13 <gmaxwell> often you can make the failure rate very low, and then its fine. Looks like for 6,2 and targets around 128 there aren't any super awesome options.
 174 2014-09-23 03:35:31 <dabura667> 49 rolls is way less than 2^128...
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 176 2014-09-23 03:35:55 <dabura667> and 50 rolls is 2.4 times as large, so there's a large chance of needing to discard
 177 2014-09-23 03:36:04 <gmaxwell> Thats what I said.
 178 2014-09-23 03:36:31 <gmaxwell> 53 works out okay— you shift off 9 bits and then have a 0.2% discard chance.
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 183 2014-09-23 03:39:16 <dabura667> ok
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 188 2014-09-23 03:49:01 <dabura667> it looks like Bitcoinjs has a Biginteger class that accepts base as an arg. I'll require 53 rolls for 128 bits and it looks like 106 rolls for 256 bits sounds good. if I shift off 18 bits I get 0.4% discard chance.
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 191 2014-09-23 03:53:54 <gmaxwell> you don't need a base anything as an arg. Just multiply and add.
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 200 2014-09-23 04:13:02 <dabura667> gmaxwell: the base as an arg this was to convert the user's 0-5 string into a Bigint object
 201 2014-09-23 04:13:20 <dabura667> which seems to be a byte array
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 203 2014-09-23 04:16:02 <gmaxwell> dabura667: you can just run a loop multiplying by 6 and adding the next digit.
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 205 2014-09-23 04:17:01 <gmaxwell> (which, if you read most significant first like that, I suppose that lets you terminate early if the number is going to be too big)
 206 2014-09-23 04:17:18 <dabura667> gmaxwell: javascript caps out at 32 bit though...
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 208 2014-09-23 04:19:28 <gmaxwell> just pointing out that you don't need any base-foo support beyond getting back a byte sequence.
 209 2014-09-23 04:19:41 <dabura667> well yeah, true.
 210 2014-09-23 04:19:51 <dabura667> if this were python I'd just use a for loop
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 259 2014-09-23 06:02:07 <chaosagent> hi
 260 2014-09-23 06:02:10 <chaosagent> anyone here?
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 262 2014-09-23 06:04:59 <b-itcoinssg> yes
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 264 2014-09-23 06:06:57 <sipa> no
 265 2014-09-23 06:07:40 <NikolaiToryzin> I can confirm no one is here.
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 268 2014-09-23 06:08:32 <b-itcoinssg> maybe he's waiting for 6 confirmations
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 288 2014-09-23 06:26:07 <dabura667> Yes (confirmation 2)
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 291 2014-09-23 06:27:56 <dabura667> gmaxwell: I was wondering what the difference of cutting off bits and modding by a power of 2... My understanding is that ie. If you mod by 256 you are bitwise ANDing 0xff
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 293 2014-09-23 06:28:19 <dabura667> Or are those not the same somehow...
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 301 2014-09-23 06:44:56 <gwillen> dabura667: that should be the same, yes
 302 2014-09-23 06:45:52 <gmaxwell> Take care. Mod your target size does _nothing_ if the number is small enough, and if it's too big you'll end up non-uniform.
 303 2014-09-23 06:46:26 <dabura667> gmaxwell: You were talking about shifting off bits.
 304 2014-09-23 06:46:37 <dabura667> you mean right shift, right?
 305 2014-09-23 06:46:45 <gmaxwell> You must first have an input a power of two in size first to avoid non-uniformity. The mod will just then be needlessly slow (compared to masking or a shift), but harmless.
 306 2014-09-23 06:47:41 <gmaxwell> dabura667: yes.
 307 2014-09-23 06:48:58 <dabura667> ok
 308 2014-09-23 06:49:30 <Luke-Jr> usually, compilers will change a mod-power-of-two into a bitmask
 309 2014-09-23 06:49:56 <gmaxwell> Luke-Jr: not on a bignum. :P
 310 2014-09-23 06:50:11 <Luke-Jr> oh, I missed context then
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 322 2014-09-23 07:13:16 <phantomcircuit> gmaxwell, i remember something about being able to do n of m signatures without the multisig stuff
 323 2014-09-23 07:13:25 <phantomcircuit> does that actually work in a useful way
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 330 2014-09-23 07:20:09 <gmaxwell> phantomcircuit: not for ecdsa, it works for schnorr signatures.
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 333 2014-09-23 07:25:46 <phantomcircuit> hmm
 334 2014-09-23 07:25:59 <phantomcircuit> gmaxwell, schorr signtures are big and slow aren't they
 335 2014-09-23 07:26:35 <phantomcircuit> implementing signature stuffs for a minimum viable coin now
 336 2014-09-23 07:26:53 <phantomcircuit> trying to keep the signature stuff as close to constant size as possible
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 341 2014-09-23 07:28:48 <gmaxwell> phantomcircuit: what? no!
 342 2014-09-23 07:29:04 <gmaxwell> also, ...uh, when did you get in the altcoin making business?
 343 2014-09-23 07:29:12 * gmaxwell gives a look of disapproval :)
 344 2014-09-23 07:29:22 <phantomcircuit> gmaxwell, mostly entertainment value
 345 2014-09-23 07:29:42 <phantomcircuit> certainly not going to be some silly altcoin...
 346 2014-09-23 07:30:07 <gmaxwell> they're basically the same as ecdsa, but simpler and easier to verify... and have a security proof.
 347 2014-09-23 07:30:26 benrcole has joined
 348 2014-09-23 07:30:26 <gmaxwell> the only mark agains them is that they were patented until two-ish years ago.
 349 2014-09-23 07:30:40 <gmaxwell> which is, of course, no longer a mark against them.
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 352 2014-09-23 07:33:03 <phantomcircuit> gmaxwell, huh
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 372 2014-09-23 07:48:00 <midnightmagic> ಠ_ಠ
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 377 2014-09-23 07:54:06 <phantomcircuit> midnightmagic, ಠ_ಠ
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 387 2014-09-23 08:03:24 <chichov> how come that a script loop like: while(start < end && script.GetOp(start, opcode, buf) throws a memory access violation?
 388 2014-09-23 08:04:03 jchp_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
 389 2014-09-23 08:04:18 <chichov> more precisely, it throws a suberror in allocators.h LockedPageManagerBase<Locker> ... Assertion 'this->GetLockedPageCount() == 0' failed. Odd error.
 390 2014-09-23 08:04:31 <wumpus> chichov: that's just a shutdown check
 391 2014-09-23 08:04:40 <wumpus> chichov: the actual assertion will be before that
 392 2014-09-23 08:04:50 t7 has joined
 393 2014-09-23 08:05:31 <chichov> why would this be even used in a command like GetOp?
 394 2014-09-23 08:06:22 <wumpus> I'm not sure what you're asking
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 396 2014-09-23 08:06:54 <chichov> I'm looping through a script to individually output its components
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 398 2014-09-23 08:07:15 <chichov> and when I do so, with the loop I've described above, it throws me this strange error
 399 2014-09-23 08:07:22 <chichov> and I'm wondering - why?
 400 2014-09-23 08:07:46 <wumpus> as I said, the error that you see is not the error that causes the shutdown to be set in motion, it is just a symptom of an unclean shutdown
 401 2014-09-23 08:07:49 hemry has left ()
 402 2014-09-23 08:08:25 <chichov> shutdown of the client?
 403 2014-09-23 08:08:36 <wumpus> you could comment out the assertion in the destructor of LockedPageManager and it would still be crashing
 404 2014-09-23 08:08:53 <wumpus> because if it gets there in the first place the program has left main()...
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 407 2014-09-23 08:10:04 <chichov> this is strange because if I comment out the aforementioned loop, then it works neatly
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 409 2014-09-23 08:10:25 <wumpus> it's clear that your loop causes an exception or assertion
 410 2014-09-23 08:10:40 <chichov> it does so even when it's empty
 411 2014-09-23 08:10:57 <chichov> that's the strange thing
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 413 2014-09-23 08:11:38 <wumpus> chichov: as said, can you try commenting out the assertion in ~LockedPageManagerBase() ?
 414 2014-09-23 08:11:48 <chichov> yea, lemme try
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 416 2014-09-23 08:12:08 <wumpus> maybe then the actual exception that gets it there becomes more clear
 417 2014-09-23 08:13:05 <chichov> well, the first exception is a memory access violation
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 420 2014-09-23 08:13:43 <wumpus> ok, that's the one you should debug
 421 2014-09-23 08:13:46 <chichov> maybe GetOp tries to reach too far out?
 422 2014-09-23 08:14:05 <wumpus> sure - start<end doesn't guarantee that GetOp doesn't reach beyond end
 423 2014-09-23 08:14:38 <chichov> well, the logic should be the same as in script.cpp where scripts are evaluated
 424 2014-09-23 08:15:03 <chichov> same story, they first use while(start < end) and then if(!script.GetOp(...)) return false;
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 429 2014-09-23 08:17:31 <wumpus> well, single step through it and see where it goes wrong
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 431 2014-09-23 08:19:05 <chichov> good idea, I'll try that
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 464 2014-09-23 08:36:40 <chichov> wumpus: odd, the error exists in when I'm using boost for test cases but not in a normal program
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 493 2014-09-23 08:50:51 <wumpus> a true heisenbug
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 505 2014-09-23 09:06:20 <chichov> hehe, true true.
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 553 2014-09-23 10:37:59 <michagogo> 13:54:12 <wumpus> I think it's time to tag 0.9.3 final <-- haven't you said that a couple times in the past day or two? :P
 554 2014-09-23 10:38:19 <wumpus> michagogo: yes
 555 2014-09-23 10:38:28 agorist001 has joined
 556 2014-09-23 10:38:41 <wumpus> so someone is paying attention, woohoo :)
 557 2014-09-23 10:39:51 <michagogo> I do see 3 commits in v0.9.3rc2..0.9.3
 558 2014-09-23 10:40:19 <wumpus> only doc and auxilary build system changes
 559 2014-09-23 10:40:28 <michagogo> But I see none of it is to the actual softw- yeah
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 563 2014-09-23 10:42:16 <michagogo> Is http://pkgs.fedoraproject.org/repo/pkgs/cdrkit/cdrkit-1.1.11.tar.gz/ a link that we can expect to remain stable?
 564 2014-09-23 10:42:30 <wumpus> no clue, it works now, if it changes again we'll change it again
 565 2014-09-23 10:42:47 <michagogo> Looks like older releases there do stay in place
 566 2014-09-23 10:42:53 <michagogo> (when going up a level)
 567 2014-09-23 10:43:11 <wumpus> you can't predict that in advance - you'd say the cdrkit.org link when stable, but then the complete domain went away
 568 2014-09-23 10:43:22 <michagogo> well, yeah
 569 2014-09-23 10:43:27 <michagogo> (maybe we should ask fedora...)
 570 2014-09-23 10:43:57 <wumpus> I don't think that's necessary. The URI in the md is only a suggestion in any case, if it's not there, any other place will do.
 571 2014-09-23 10:44:04 <michagogo> I guess so
 572 2014-09-23 10:44:14 <michagogo> (also, the commit message refers to the wrong file...)
 573 2014-09-23 10:44:15 <wumpus> (gitian verifies the integrity, so you don't have to worry about that)
 574 2014-09-23 10:44:18 <michagogo> Right.
 575 2014-09-23 10:44:48 <wumpus> sigh...
 576 2014-09-23 10:45:31 weilu has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
 577 2014-09-23 10:45:45 <michagogo> BTW, from tomorrow afternoon through Saturday night or Sunday morning I'll be offline for Rosh HaShana
 578 2014-09-23 10:45:58 <wumpus> yes,  Gavin isn't there either
 579 2014-09-23 10:46:01 random_cat_ has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
 580 2014-09-23 10:46:10 <michagogo> (it's 2 days, and immediately followed by Shabbat this year)
 581 2014-09-23 10:46:43 <michagogo> So if the tag happens during that time my build may be a bit delayed
 582 2014-09-23 10:46:53 <wumpus> that's fine, there is no hurry
 583 2014-09-23 10:47:03 <michagogo> Yeah, just wanted you to be aware
 584 2014-09-23 10:47:17 <michagogo> s/may/will/
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 588 2014-09-23 10:50:46 <wumpus>  * [new tag]         v0.9.3 -> v0.9.3
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 604 2014-09-23 11:09:14 <michagogo> aaand there's my SMS
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 608 2014-09-23 11:12:25 <michagogo> now let's see if the latest gitian update fixed the problem
 609 2014-09-23 11:12:41 <michagogo> Sounds like it should have made it use lxc-start again my default, so it should, I hope
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 638 2014-09-23 11:44:42 <michagogo> btw, is there no way to do a partial build of boost, just including what we need?
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 640 2014-09-23 11:44:50 <michagogo> I was watching the build log just now
 641 2014-09-23 11:45:10 <michagogo> Do we really need the code to calculate electrical resistance?
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 649 2014-09-23 11:53:17 <wumpus> yes, you can select exactly what sub-libraries you want while building boost
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 651 2014-09-23 11:54:57 <wumpus> although it doesn't really matter in our case, there is a one-time build overhead when the boost dependency version changes, which is very rare
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 653 2014-09-23 11:56:07 <wumpus> looking at the depends mechanism ,it already makes a subselection: $(package)_config_libraries=chrono,filesystem,program_options,system,thread,test
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 694 2014-09-23 12:32:07 <michagogo> The "warning: -fPIC ignored for target (all code is position independent)" is kinda annoying
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 696 2014-09-23 12:32:28 <michagogo> I'm sure it's harmless, but it's a bit spammy when watching the build.log
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 698 2014-09-23 12:33:54 <michagogo> (specifically, this is in the Windows build, not Linux I don't think)
 699 2014-09-23 12:35:11 <michagogo> wumpus: hm, watching the nsis output I happened to notice something
 700 2014-09-23 12:35:18 <michagogo> the doc/release notes only goes up to 0.9.0
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 740 2014-09-23 13:17:03 <SomeoneWeird> also the release-process page is outdated (inputs etc0
 741 2014-09-23 13:17:05 <SomeoneWeird> )
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 767 2014-09-23 13:37:48 <wumpus> SomeoneWeird: any specifics?
 768 2014-09-23 13:38:10 <SomeoneWeird> wumpus: about to pr, just a couple outdated inputs
 769 2014-09-23 13:38:16 <wumpus> release-process.md should be up to date for the release it is in
 770 2014-09-23 13:38:37 <wumpus> so the one in 0.9.3 applies to 0.9.3, the one in master applies to master
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 772 2014-09-23 13:39:07 <SomeoneWeird> wumpus: oh yeah i might be ridiculously tired
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 774 2014-09-23 13:39:08 * SomeoneWeird checks
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 777 2014-09-23 13:39:48 <SomeoneWeird> wumpus: as usual you are correct, i thought i had switched branches but obviously not haha
 778 2014-09-23 13:40:15 <wumpus> hah
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 783 2014-09-23 13:45:26 <michagogo> wumpus: oops
 784 2014-09-23 13:45:29 <michagogo> I had the dir name wrong
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 786 2014-09-23 13:47:44 <michagogo> wumpus: fixed in #60
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 788 2014-09-23 13:48:37 <wumpus> you realize you can't just change the dir name, you need to re-sign the assert as well
 789 2014-09-23 13:48:52 <michagogo> eh?
 790 2014-09-23 13:49:17 <michagogo> What do you mean?
 791 2014-09-23 13:49:58 <wumpus> hm I'm not sure, one time I just renamed the dir and gverify wouldn't validate the sig, not sure why, assumed the .assert would contain the name as well
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 796 2014-09-23 13:50:26 <michagogo> Our .asserts seem to match?
 797 2014-09-23 13:50:29 <wumpus> 0.9.3-linux/michagogo/bitcoin-build.assert → 0.9.3/0.9.3-linux/michagogo/bitcoin-build.assert
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 800 2014-09-23 13:50:39 <michagogo> er, what?
 801 2014-09-23 13:50:42 <wumpus> you added another directory level? :p
 802 2014-09-23 13:50:42 <michagogo> crap
 803 2014-09-23 13:50:54 <wumpus> yes, that explains why gverify doesn't pick it up hehe
 804 2014-09-23 13:51:08 <michagogo> -_-
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 806 2014-09-23 13:51:27 <SomeoneWeird> lmao
 807 2014-09-23 13:51:32 <SomeoneWeird> woops :P
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 809 2014-09-23 13:52:27 <michagogo> fixed
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 811 2014-09-23 13:53:08 * michagogo goes to re-read the git-mv manpage
 812 2014-09-23 13:53:34 <michagogo> Oh, derp
 813 2014-09-23 13:53:55 <michagogo> The 0.9.3 dir already existed, so it moved into there rather than moving to there
 814 2014-09-23 13:54:22 <michagogo> I should probably squash those, actually
 815 2014-09-23 13:54:55 <michagogo> er, wait, what?
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 818 2014-09-23 13:55:40 <michagogo> .....
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 820 2014-09-23 13:58:04 <michagogo> no, no, no...
 821 2014-09-23 14:00:19 * michagogo is not good at git
 822 2014-09-23 14:00:30 <michagogo> Okay, I think I fixed it now
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 824 2014-09-23 14:01:11 <michagogo> I made something like 3 commits to sequentially try and fix the error, then realized I should just squash them
 825 2014-09-23 14:01:39 <michagogo> So I rebased interactively, but I think I went too far back and so it recreated the original commit
 826 2014-09-23 14:01:42 <michagogo> or something
 827 2014-09-23 14:02:24 <michagogo> I think I fixed it now, though...
 828 2014-09-23 14:02:48 <michagogo> I just used `git reset --hard upstream/master` and made the change again
 829 2014-09-23 14:03:09 <michagogo> wumpus: okay, should be right now
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 856 2014-09-23 14:14:32 <wumpus> michagogo: it verifies now, thanks
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 940 2014-09-23 15:32:41 <wumpus> BlueMatt: (as promised last time) ping, 0.9.3 final has been tagged
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 943 2014-09-23 15:33:13 <timothy> now I only need to wait for the tar
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 948 2014-09-23 15:37:42 <wumpus> timothy: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/archive/v0.9.3.tar.gz?
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 950 2014-09-23 15:38:07 <wumpus> executables will take a while, need wait for a number of signers, to do code signing etc
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 956 2014-09-23 15:49:29 <aschildbach> I'm already building…
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 997 2014-09-23 16:32:14 <Ghosty_CC> any bitcoin / altcoin wallet expert? Could use some help for a little wallet recovery. Willing to donate if it works :) Pm me
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1000 2014-09-23 16:39:31 <FXOR> ;;sell 80 btc @ 400  USB
1001 2014-09-23 16:39:31 <gribble> Error: For identification purposes, you must be identified via GPG to use the order book.
1002 2014-09-23 16:43:02 Guest50791 has quit (Quit: Leaving)
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1005 2014-09-23 16:46:07 <aschildbach> I pushed my signatures for 0.9.3.
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1017 2014-09-23 16:57:23 <ajweiss> wumpus: ok to pm?
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1033 2014-09-23 17:07:41 <michagogo> wumpus: that's not the "official" 0.9.3 tarball though, right?
1034 2014-09-23 17:09:05 <michagogo> (Am I misremembering, or do we tell people that the tarball that should be used is the one generated by make/gitian?)
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1043 2014-09-23 17:10:40 <BlueMatt> wumpus: much appreciated
1044 2014-09-23 17:11:07 <BlueMatt> ;;seen cfields
1045 2014-09-23 17:11:08 <gribble> cfields was last seen in #bitcoin-dev 1 week, 2 days, 10 hours, 28 minutes, and 41 seconds ago: <cfields> nnite
1046 2014-09-23 17:11:12 <BlueMatt> :(
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1048 2014-09-23 17:12:01 <michagogo> BlueMatt: do you know what the story is with the different tarballs?
1049 2014-09-23 17:12:09 <BlueMatt> hmm?
1050 2014-09-23 17:12:13 <michagogo> see above
1051 2014-09-23 17:12:25 <michagogo> (at 2:17 past the hour)
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1055 2014-09-23 17:13:15 <BlueMatt> michagogo: not sure what you're referring to (though I see the message), so no, I have no idea :)
1056 2014-09-23 17:13:27 <michagogo> BlueMatt: GitHub provides a tarball for tags
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1058 2014-09-23 17:13:35 <michagogo> e.g. https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/archive/v0.9.3.tar.gz
1059 2014-09-23 17:13:36 <BlueMatt> yes, those are identical to git archive iirc
1060 2014-09-23 17:13:49 <michagogo> But there's something else that make outputs
1061 2014-09-23 17:13:53 <BlueMatt> thanks, I was literally 30 seconds from going to github to find that link....
1062 2014-09-23 17:13:54 <michagogo> Oh, are they?
1063 2014-09-23 17:14:13 <michagogo> I could have sworn I remembered someone saying that one should use the gitian-outputted tarball instead
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1065 2014-09-23 17:14:42 <BlueMatt> gitian-outputted tarball should have built binaries and such, no?
1066 2014-09-23 17:14:46 <michagogo> no
1067 2014-09-23 17:14:53 <michagogo> There's a source tarball that gitian spits out
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1074 2014-09-23 17:15:28 <BlueMatt> i dont know what you're trying to do with this tarball?
1075 2014-09-23 17:15:48 <michagogo> BlueMatt: I'm not trying to do anything with it myself
1076 2014-09-23 17:16:08 <michagogo> But someone was saying 18:26:26 <timothy> now I only need to wait for the tar
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1078 2014-09-23 17:17:09 <BlueMatt> they should verify wumpus' signature and run git archive
1079 2014-09-23 17:17:27 <BlueMatt> or, if they're not gonna verify the sig anyway, just github
1080 2014-09-23 17:17:38 * michagogo downloads the gh tarball to compare
1081 2014-09-23 17:17:42 <jintelletec> Anyone want to work for a cool btc hardware company- Remote work is fine C/C++ Engineer?
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1091 2014-09-23 17:27:06 <michagogo> Okay, it's definitely different
1092 2014-09-23 17:27:42 <michagogo> $ wc -l git{ian,hub}-list
1093 2014-09-23 17:27:42 <michagogo>    724 gitian-list
1094 2014-09-23 17:27:42 <michagogo>    918 github-list
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1096 2014-09-23 17:35:26 <wumpus> ajweiss: sure
1097 2014-09-23 17:35:58 <wumpus> michagogo: there is no "official" source tarball, as BlueMatt says people can verify the signature on the git tag for v0.9.3, that's assurance of the release
1098 2014-09-23 17:36:56 <michagogo> I'm looking now and there's a big difference between the github tarball and the gitian tarball
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1100 2014-09-23 17:39:33 <BlueMatt> michagogo: then the gitian tarball is some custom format
1101 2014-09-23 17:39:47 <michagogo> Right
1102 2014-09-23 17:39:48 <BlueMatt> probably in compatibility with the original format that satoshi used, but I have no idea anymore
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1104 2014-09-23 17:39:52 <wumpus> BlueMatt: yes, make dist format
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1106 2014-09-23 17:39:55 <BlueMatt> ask cfields, who seems to be on vacation
1107 2014-09-23 17:40:00 <BlueMatt> ahh
1108 2014-09-23 17:40:32 <michagogo> So which should people be using for various purposes?
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1110 2014-09-23 17:41:12 <asoltys> can you BIP38 encrypt a BIP32 extended private key?
1111 2014-09-23 17:41:31 <coryfields> hmm?
1112 2014-09-23 17:42:10 <coryfields> wumpus: there is an official tarball, we've just not pushed it very hard yet
1113 2014-09-23 17:42:18 <coryfields> it's bootstrapped and deterministic, produced by gitian
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1115 2014-09-23 17:42:37 <coryfields> rather, i suppose, I'd like that to be considered the official one :)
1116 2014-09-23 17:42:37 <BlueMatt> coryfields: you changed nicks....
1117 2014-09-23 17:43:04 <coryfields> BlueMatt: freenode nick change has my clients messed up, haven't messed with it yet
1118 2014-09-23 17:43:09 <coryfields> *pass change
1119 2014-09-23 17:43:11 <BlueMatt> ahh
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1123 2014-09-23 17:47:57 <michagogo> Here's a diff between the gitian tarball and the github tarball, with the timestamps normalized
1124 2014-09-23 17:47:58 <michagogo> http://www.diffnow.com/?report=ni27q
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1126 2014-09-23 17:49:09 <michagogo> (that is, github's timestamp sed'ed to gitian's timestamp to remove that element of diff)
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1138 2014-09-23 17:57:29 <wumpus> coryfields: why don't we zip up the entire repository for the gitian tarball, btw? quite a lot is missing right now, for example the stuff in contrib/debian
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1140 2014-09-23 17:58:10 <michagogo> Well, we may not need everything
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1142 2014-09-23 17:58:30 <michagogo> For example, .gitignore doesn't need to be in our tarball releases
1143 2014-09-23 17:59:02 <coryfields> wumpus: it uses the enumerated files for the dist tarball. That way there's no chance of local files slipping in
1144 2014-09-23 17:59:18 <coryfields> that's why pull-tester fails if you forget to add a .h to the list, for ex
1145 2014-09-23 17:59:23 <michagogo> Oh, just realized how I can make just a plain list of files -_-
1146 2014-09-23 17:59:27 <coryfields> but, no reason why we couldn't add those files as extras
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1153 2014-09-23 18:01:10 <coryfields> wumpus: the main point of the dist tarball is that it's already bootstrapped. auto* aren't needed for the builder, since they've all been converted to shell scripts already
1154 2014-09-23 18:01:22 <wumpus> I'm not sure it makes sense to enumerate any file we need, sure, if you ship it all there may be some redundant files (such as .gitignore) but that's no big issiue is it?
1155 2014-09-23 18:01:49 <wumpus> coryfields: agreed, but those are extra files
1156 2014-09-23 18:02:01 <michagogo> Okay, here's a better diff
1157 2014-09-23 18:02:02 <coryfields> wumpus: for source files it's necessary. for extras, i'd be fine with globbing
1158 2014-09-23 18:02:07 <wumpus> I'm not sure it makes sense to squeeze out a few bytes here at risk that something is missed
1159 2014-09-23 18:02:08 <michagogo> http://www.diffnow.com/?report=ny0hr
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1161 2014-09-23 18:02:30 <michagogo> That shows everything that's only in GH (right) and everything that's only in the gitian output (left)
1162 2014-09-23 18:02:32 <coryfields> wumpus: nah, it's not about size, it's about ensuring that local files don't slip in
1163 2014-09-23 18:03:16 <coryfields> wumpus: anyway, i agree. adding contrib stuff like debian to extras is fine by me. no need to enumerate
1164 2014-09-23 18:03:31 <michagogo> hmm
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1167 2014-09-23 18:04:05 <michagogo> So there are src files missing from the gitian tarball
1168 2014-09-23 18:04:14 <michagogo> e.g. bitcoin-0.9.3/src/json/json_spirit_value.cpp
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1171 2014-09-23 18:04:52 <michagogo> oh, wait, I messed up the sorting
1172 2014-09-23 18:04:53 <michagogo> bah
1173 2014-09-23 18:05:22 <coryfields> michagogo: that tarball is used for the final build
1174 2014-09-23 18:05:34 <michagogo> Wait, it is?
1175 2014-09-23 18:05:53 <michagogo> How come it works with src files missing?
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1177 2014-09-23 18:06:09 <michagogo> Anyway, http://www.diffnow.com/?report=cjn0g is sorted properly
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1185 2014-09-23 18:16:29 <ajweiss> sipa: ok to pm?
1186 2014-09-23 18:16:36 <sipa> sure
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1294 2014-09-23 19:34:07 <michagogo> whoa
1295 2014-09-23 19:34:07 <michagogo> http://i.imgur.com/dpL95uX.png
1296 2014-09-23 19:34:25 <michagogo> Apparently Gmail detects GitHub emails and adds buttons...
1297 2014-09-23 19:34:33 <sipa> nope
1298 2014-09-23 19:34:41 <sipa> github sends a mail header that gmail interprets
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1302 2014-09-23 19:37:08 <coryfields> ah neat, i was wondering about that
1303 2014-09-23 19:38:10 <gwillen> seems to be documented at https://developers.google.com/gmail/actions/getting-started
1304 2014-09-23 19:38:28 <sipa> google has been using that internally for a while for its code review and bug tracker system :)
1305 2014-09-23 19:38:36 <gwillen> it's not a header, it goes in the html body of the message apparently
1306 2014-09-23 19:38:46 <gwillen> and to use it externally you have to be whitelisted with manual review
1307 2014-09-23 19:40:17 <sipa> makes sense
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1314 2014-09-23 19:45:02 <michagogo> <script type="application/ld+json">{"@context":"http://schema.org","@type":"EmailMessage","description":"View this Pull Request on GitHub","action":{"@type":"ViewAction","url":"https://github.com/bitcoin/gitian.sigs/pull/62","name":"View Pull Request"}}</script>
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1327 2014-09-23 19:53:06 <earlz> So, are there any cases where the comment of a transaction would be lost, or associated with a different transaction?
1328 2014-09-23 19:53:18 <earlz> through the reference client's RPC interface
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1488 2014-09-23 22:16:41 <BlueMatt> is there a reason upgrading to master from 0.9.X would significantly limit mempool contents
1489 2014-09-23 22:16:43 <BlueMatt> ?
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1493 2014-09-23 22:18:34 <BlueMatt> sipa: ^
1494 2014-09-23 22:19:12 <sipa> i doubt it?
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1544 2014-09-23 23:18:54 <Luke-Jr> [19:27:55] <sipa> github sends a mail header that gmail interprets <-- I see no generic header. If Gmail is using some standardish header for this, that is more of "Gmail detects GitHub emails and adds buttons" IMO
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1552 2014-09-23 23:21:28 <Luke-Jr> ah, body
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