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  69 2014-10-12 01:33:51 <aburan28> what does BIP22,BIP23 do to address the centralized mining pool issue?
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  72 2014-10-12 01:34:47 <jgarzik> aburan28, Enhances ability for end-line miners (computing service providers) to audit the mining pools ("real" miners)
  73 2014-10-12 01:35:54 <aburan28> ah I see
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  83 2014-10-12 02:00:49 <phantomcircuit> Luke-Jr, correct me if im wrong, but isn't that going to be computationally expensive for the pool?
  84 2014-10-12 02:01:02 <Luke-Jr> phantomcircuit: why would it be?
  85 2014-10-12 02:01:17 <Luke-Jr> you have to calculate the merkle root for the extranonce anyway
  86 2014-10-12 02:01:23 <phantomcircuit> have to validate that the transactions included by the miners are actually valid
  87 2014-10-12 02:01:27 <Luke-Jr> no
  88 2014-10-12 02:01:30 <Luke-Jr> don't have to
  89 2014-10-12 02:01:41 <Luke-Jr> they can already block withhold if they want to be malicious
  90 2014-10-12 02:01:51 <phantomcircuit> right im not thinking malicious
  91 2014-10-12 02:01:52 <Luke-Jr> you just need to be sure they're not playing two different pools
  92 2014-10-12 02:01:53 <phantomcircuit> just incompetent
  93 2014-10-12 02:02:12 <Luke-Jr> phantomcircuit: randomly verify transactions, you'll identify incompetence eventually
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  97 2014-10-12 02:03:31 <phantomcircuit> Luke-Jr, right i guess that would be sufficient
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 103 2014-10-12 02:17:09 <BlueMatt> sipa: how does headers-first interact with pruning again? if it prunes undo data past where you need a reorg, does it have proper logic to redownload that?
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 105 2014-10-12 02:17:31 <BlueMatt> ;;later tell sipa how does headers-first interact with pruning again? if it prunes undo data past where you need a reorg, does it have proper logic to redownload that?
 106 2014-10-12 02:17:31 <gribble> The operation succeeded.
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 108 2014-10-12 02:20:58 <Luke-Jr> BlueMatt: does it prune? i thought that was a future PR
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 113 2014-10-12 02:28:46 <phantomcircuit> oh make check is formatted now
 114 2014-10-12 02:28:47 <phantomcircuit> neat
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 136 2014-10-12 02:49:03 <BlueMatt> Luke-Jr: mmm, ok
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 140 2014-10-12 02:52:03 <Luke-Jr> BlueMatt: you'd probably know better than me
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 145 2014-10-12 02:59:58 <BlueMatt> Luke-Jr: I havent reviewed that pull before, I was just reading it through
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 155 2014-10-12 03:25:36 <rodarmor> This is peripheral to bitcoin development proper, so apologies if this isn’t the right place to post, but I’m hoping to get feedback on the idea: https://github.com/casey/beacontx
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 161 2014-10-12 03:30:32 <justanotheruser> rodarmor: you have to justify that this needs to be in the blockchain
 162 2014-10-12 03:31:00 <justanotheruser> the blockchain is for distributed consesus. You have trusted authority using a trustless system.
 163 2014-10-12 03:32:33 <Luke-Jr> rodarmor: just extend the peer-to-peer protocol..
 164 2014-10-12 03:32:39 <Luke-Jr> what justanotheruser said, no need for a blockchain
 165 2014-10-12 03:33:11 <rodarmor> It uses the bitcoin blockchain, and the OP_RETURN opcode to simply embed a hash to the payload, so space use is minimal. Miners may choose to deprioritize these transactions, but they would be likely to encourage bitcoin adoption, so it would seem to be in their own interest to allow them.
 166 2014-10-12 03:33:37 <tom99> what are those distributed companies called? DACs?
 167 2014-10-12 03:33:38 <Luke-Jr> rodarmor: but there's no purpose to that
 168 2014-10-12 03:33:40 <tom99> this reminds me of that
 169 2014-10-12 03:33:44 <rodarmor> Also, by using the bitcoin blockchain itself, merchants are able to send a strong signal that they are not only WILLING to accept bitcoin transactions, but ABLE to.
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 174 2014-10-12 03:34:39 <rodarmor> I personally have been hesitant to try to pay with bitcoin because I didn’t want to get some random employee that had no idea what bitcoin was. This sends a timely signal that bitcoin CAN be accepted by a business, in a way that something that did not use the blockchain could not.
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 176 2014-10-12 03:35:14 <justanotheruser> rodarmor: the "bitcoin accepted here" stickers also do that
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 179 2014-10-12 03:35:36 <Luke-Jr> rodarmor: that makes no sense at all
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 181 2014-10-12 03:36:13 <devthedev> Do all merchants who use Square's terminal have the ability to accept Bitcoin?
 182 2014-10-12 03:36:16 <rodarmor> Luke-Jr: Why? It happens a lot that the owner of a business decides to accept bitcoin without properly training the employees.
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 184 2014-10-12 03:36:41 <Luke-Jr> rodarmor: and?
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 187 2014-10-12 03:37:48 <rodarmor> Luke-Jr: Sorry, I was responding to the comment that a bitcoin sticker indicates that a business is set up properly to accept transactiosn. What where you referring to when you said “that makes no sense at all"?
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 189 2014-10-12 03:38:23 <Luke-Jr> rodarmor: your apparently claim that throwing a hash in the blockchain is going to somehow change that
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 191 2014-10-12 03:40:29 <rodarmor> Luke-Jr: Yes, I actually do. If beacons are timely, in that old beacons are deprioritized by end-user search providers, then a beacon, which is a bitcoin transaction, would seem to provide a good signal that the originator had a functioning wallet connected to the network. Especially if the convention is that beacons themselves are meant to indicate that bitcoin is accepted, it would be counter-productive for a merchant who is 
 192 2014-10-12 03:40:29 <rodarmor> set up to properly process bitcoin transactions to send one.
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 194 2014-10-12 03:40:56 <Luke-Jr> rodarmor: still no need for a blockchain
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 200 2014-10-12 03:43:09 <_W_> rodarmor: furthermore, it in no way stops a business from having untrained employees
 201 2014-10-12 03:43:17 <rodarmor> The bitcoin blockchain is by definition accessible to the target customer base, it provides an anti-spam mechanism which is extremely valuable for this application, and the application uses OP_RETURN, and so is as good a citizen as possible.
 202 2014-10-12 03:43:42 <rodarmor> _W_: I agree, it is not an iron clad guarantee, but a useful heuristic.
 203 2014-10-12 03:44:39 <rodarmor> If blockchain bloat or transaction volume is an issue, then transactions could be referenced by a level of indiraction. A hash to a list of hashes could be stored in the block chain, to be retrieved by some known mechanism.
 204 2014-10-12 03:44:40 <_W_> I don't think it's even that
 205 2014-10-12 03:46:37 <rodarmor> _W_: Really? I respectfully disagree. If beacons that are more than 24 hours are considered to be “stale”, then a beacon sent in the last 24 hours would seem to be a good signal. It indicates that it is likely that someone at the business has a functioning device which is connected to the network, and that they had bitcoin to pay the transaction fee. This would seem to me to be an excellent signal.
 206 2014-10-12 03:47:46 <Luke-Jr> rodarmor: what purpose is there to storing it in the blockchain? i see none
 207 2014-10-12 03:50:04 <rodarmor> Luke-Jr: It provides a known discovery method, there is an anti-spam mechanism, and it provides the heuristic the originator is set up to receive transactions. What other storage mechanism would acheive that?
 208 2014-10-12 03:50:30 <kyuupichan> With commit 69aa Gavin bumped protocol version from 70001 to 70002 with no comment other than "bump protocol version".  What was the motivation and what is the difference between the two protocol versions please?
 209 2014-10-12 03:50:34 <Luke-Jr> rodarmor: you're talking about temporary messages. it doesn't need storage.
 210 2014-10-12 03:51:02 <Luke-Jr> rodarmor: furthermore, the blockchain is not a storage system, it is a consensus system
 211 2014-10-12 03:52:12 <rodarmor> Luke-Jr: While that may be true, I think it is likely that miners would consent to mine transactions which are likely to be beneficial to the adoption of the currency, so while it might not be a “pure” use of the system, it is likely to be a positive one.
 212 2014-10-12 03:52:20 quickcoin has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
 213 2014-10-12 03:52:27 <Luke-Jr> rodarmor: no, it is useless
 214 2014-10-12 03:52:43 <Luke-Jr> rodarmor: just broadcast the messages over the p2p network like alerts
 215 2014-10-12 03:52:51 <Luke-Jr> or like the ancient Bitcoin market system
 216 2014-10-12 03:52:56 <rodarmor> What about spam and timestamping?
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 218 2014-10-12 03:55:00 <Luke-Jr> rodarmor: same as transaction relaying
 219 2014-10-12 03:55:17 <Luke-Jr> these don't need timestamps
 220 2014-10-12 03:55:29 <Luke-Jr> at least not cryptographically provable ones
 221 2014-10-12 03:56:02 <rodarmor> Luke-Jr: I would disagree. Almost all goods and services are provided during a given duration. Having a timestamp is useful. Having a cryptographically provable one is a bonus.
 222 2014-10-12 03:56:31 <BlueMatt> bitcoin timestamps are very far from cryptographically provable, to be pedantic
 223 2014-10-12 03:56:59 <rodarmor> BlueMatt: Right, but they are definitely more than adaquate for this purpose.
 224 2014-10-12 03:57:17 <Luke-Jr> rodarmor: nonsense, you're talking about high precision timestamps
 225 2014-10-12 03:57:32 <Luke-Jr> bitcoin's block timestamps are only remotely adequate for low precision
 226 2014-10-12 03:57:55 <rodarmor> Luke-Jr: What precision do block timestamps have?
 227 2014-10-12 03:58:23 <Luke-Jr> rodarmor: +/- 3 hours on average
 228 2014-10-12 03:58:33 <Luke-Jr> actually, more like 4 hours
 229 2014-10-12 03:59:30 <rodarmor> Luke-Jr: If beacon payloads contain their own expiration time, then low precision is okay. Simply proof of having been published some time in the past is sufficient.
 230 2014-10-12 04:00:18 <Luke-Jr> sigh
 231 2014-10-12 04:02:07 <Luke-Jr> fine, do it. and we'll ask everyone to not use it. and everyone will ignore us. and we end up with yet another system built on top of bitcoin poorly.
 232 2014-10-12 04:02:28 <christophe> This sounds like the kind of thing that works just fine in a centralized fashion.
 233 2014-10-12 04:02:52 <rodarmor> christophe: What about censorship?
 234 2014-10-12 04:03:36 <christophe> If merchants accepting bitcoin have to worry about censorship, they'll also have to worry about advertising they accept bitcoin in the first place, no?
 235 2014-10-12 04:03:48 <Mutsumi> Luke-Jr, then is there a reference for something done 'right?'
 236 2014-10-12 04:03:49 <christophe> What's your threat model?
 237 2014-10-12 04:04:22 <Luke-Jr> rodarmor: Bitcoin is not censorship-resistent anyway.
 238 2014-10-12 04:04:42 <christophe> Mutsumi: putting the height in the coinbase would be at the other extreme: very useful (for the network itself), no extra space taken.
 239 2014-10-12 04:04:50 <Luke-Jr> Mutsumi: as I suggested to him earlier, the alert system and the old Bitcoin market would be decent references for conceptd
 240 2014-10-12 04:05:09 <rodarmor> christophe: The threat model is that bitcoin is legal, but, for example, explicit but legal adult services are discouraged on popular review sites to appeas morals. Or that bitcoin is legal, but other things aren’t.
 241 2014-10-12 04:05:52 <christophe> I think you have a solution looking for a problem, as they say.
 242 2014-10-12 04:06:26 <rodarmor> Luke-Jr: I’m would definitely rather not introduce something that isn’t beneficial for the bitcoin ecosystem in general. So lets’s assume that indirect lists of hashes are used to avoid transaction and storage bloat.
 243 2014-10-12 04:06:30 <Luke-Jr> rodarmor: this sounds more like you want a censorship-resistent network.
 244 2014-10-12 04:06:45 <rodarmor> Luke-Jr: What’s an alternate mechanism for spam control?
 245 2014-10-12 04:07:07 <Luke-Jr> rodarmor: hashcash?
 246 2014-10-12 04:07:21 <christophe> Why do you need spam control anyway (beyond avoiding DOS attacks)?
 247 2014-10-12 04:07:47 <christophe> A simple flood-fill ephemeral storage network would work fine.
 248 2014-10-12 04:07:49 <rodarmor> christophe: Just because anything that allows for advertising goods and services is a natural target for spam.
 249 2014-10-12 04:07:59 <rodarmor> Luke-Jr: That is actually not a bad idea. How does the hash-cash difficulty target adjust?
 250 2014-10-12 04:08:26 <rodarmor> Luke-Jr: Computers will become more or less powerful, so we need some kind of mechanism for setting the difficulty.
 251 2014-10-12 04:08:40 <christophe> But it's not advertising goods and services directly, it just provides the ability to associate a business name/address with (actually accepts bitcoin).
 252 2014-10-12 04:09:08 <christophe> No humans actually looking at any of the entries.
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 254 2014-10-12 04:09:56 <Luke-Jr> a better question is how you prove the location actually exists and accepts bitcoin
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 256 2014-10-12 04:10:19 <rodarmor> christophe: business, name, address, and description. Entries are retrieved by end-users from third-party search providers. All data is stored by hash, so end-users can verify the content of the listings for themselves. Third-party search providers compete to provide the best service, and probably spider each other for all the payloads.
 257 2014-10-12 04:10:27 <rodarmor> Luke-Jr: You don’t. Heuristic only, but a good one.
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 259 2014-10-12 04:11:04 <rodarmor> Luke-Jr: As long as it is counter-productive to make up a fake location or one that doesn’t actually accept bitcoin, everyone is incentivized to get the desired outcome.
 260 2014-10-12 04:11:19 <christophe> Dedupping can easily be the problem of the search provider. Also doesn't really fix the censorship problem.
 261 2014-10-12 04:12:14 <Luke-Jr> filling a map with phony information is a form of censorship
 262 2014-10-12 04:12:20 <rodarmor> christophe: Yes, it does. Because the origin hashes are stored in a decentralized universally accessible fashion, anyone can run a search provider and have access to all the data. I could probably write a google app engine app that provides a good user experience with a limited amount of resources.
 263 2014-10-12 04:12:56 <rodarmor> Luke-Jr: This is true, but it would be an expensive attack, as users increase the minimum tx fee to show up in searches and legit merchents up their beacon tx fees.
 264 2014-10-12 04:12:57 <christophe> How do I, search provider XYZ, prove I'm not censoring stuff out before sending you the results?
 265 2014-10-12 04:13:41 <rodarmor> christophe: Beacuse all the data is user accessible, users can run their own search engines entirely locally, based on open source code.
 266 2014-10-12 04:13:58 <rodarmor> christophe: Same trust model for the bitcoin core.
 267 2014-10-12 04:14:11 <Luke-Jr> rodarmor: so it also expels the smaller businesses in preference for big business
 268 2014-10-12 04:15:33 <rodarmor> Luke-Jr: Well, I suppose that’s how advertising in general works. Big business can buy bigger soap boxes. However individual search providers could also provide the ability to down-vote individual beacons, and thus de-proritize spammy listings that drown out good ones.
 269 2014-10-12 04:15:56 <Luke-Jr> lol
 270 2014-10-12 04:16:12 <Luke-Jr> aka censorship
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 273 2014-10-12 04:16:56 <rodarmor> Luke-Jr: Censorship by a non-privilaged third party that competes for users by curating publically accessible data to provide a good user experience may be censorship, but it doesn’t keep me up at night.
 274 2014-10-12 04:17:39 <Luke-Jr> rodarmor: sounds like you can just make an open source web platform
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 276 2014-10-12 04:17:57 <Luke-Jr> or phone app
 277 2014-10-12 04:18:19 psgs is now known as away!~psgs@2001:41d0:1:68a3::39|psgs
 278 2014-10-12 04:18:27 <Luke-Jr> doesn't need the bitcoin infrastructure at all
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 281 2014-10-12 04:20:04 <rodarmor> Luke-Jr: So I can see how hashcash might be used to deprioritize spam, and I understand that one might question the usefuless of the i-really-accept-bitcoin heuristic, but what about decentralized storage and discovery?
 282 2014-10-12 04:20:16 <rodarmor> Luke-Jr: Actually, I can kind of see how it might work. It
 283 2014-10-12 04:20:45 <rodarmor> ’s like a hash-cash difficulty prioritized mempool that anyone can connect to.
 284 2014-10-12 04:20:53 <kanzure> there are already other implementations of local search nodes
 285 2014-10-12 04:20:56 <Luke-Jr> rodarmor: Bitcoin doesn't do decentralised storage, so you'll have to find something that does
 286 2014-10-12 04:21:09 <kanzure> that too
 287 2014-10-12 04:21:47 <rodarmor> Luke-Jr: Leaving aside intellectual purity for a moment, and assuming that it used a list-of-hashes design, would there be a negative impact on the bitcoin ecosystem?
 288 2014-10-12 04:22:01 <kanzure> leaving aside all reason?
 289 2014-10-12 04:22:22 <rodarmor> kanzure: just some reason
 290 2014-10-12 04:22:38 <rodarmor> And please feel free to tell me to drop it, I certainly don’t want to waste anyone’s time.
 291 2014-10-12 04:22:44 <Luke-Jr> rodarmor: Bitcoin doesn't do decentralised storage.
 292 2014-10-12 04:23:25 <rodarmor> Luke-Jr: I understand that it might not be the direct intent of bitcoin to do decentralized storage, but it does “do” it, for some definition of decentralized storage.
 293 2014-10-12 04:23:37 <kanzure> yes if you weaken your definitions anything can be anything
 294 2014-10-12 04:23:46 <kanzure> but that's neither surprising or useful
 295 2014-10-12 04:25:04 <rodarmor> kanzure: This is true. And you don’t think the bitcoin-merchant heuristic, while imperfect, might be of practical usfulness?
 296 2014-10-12 04:26:37 <rodarmor> kanzure: I’m kind of seeing how a priotizied ephemeral mempool might work, so it might be a better implementation for practical reasons.
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 298 2014-10-12 04:28:11 <rodarmor> kanzure: Even if messages are ephemeral, then they can contain hashes of other messages, which establishes what might be a rough kind of ordering. Unlike the bitcoin block-chain there is no descent from a common ancestor, but perhaps that isn’t importantt for this application.
 299 2014-10-12 04:28:31 <kanzure> i'm not going to design your application for you.
 300 2014-10-12 04:28:35 ak_ has joined
 301 2014-10-12 04:29:30 <rodarmor> kanzure: I’m making a friendly request for comment on an alternative to an original suggestion that you didn’t approve of :–)
 302 2014-10-12 04:30:06 <kanzure> where did i express disapproval. i intended to, but if you look, i didn't.
 303 2014-10-12 04:30:41 <rodarmor> kanzure: That’s true, I apologize.
 304 2014-10-12 04:33:23 won9 has joined
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 306 2014-10-12 04:38:18 <rodarmor> Anyways, it’s my bedtime. Thank you very much for the well reasoned argument!
 307 2014-10-12 04:39:03 <rodarmor> (I updated the readme on github with a note at the top, so hopefully nobody implements something stupid while I’m asleep, but you never know these days.)
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 322 2014-10-12 05:01:17 <sipa> BlueMatt: merging pruning and headersfirst will be nontrivial
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 324 2014-10-12 05:03:29 <Luke-Jr> sipa: oh, if it's already non-trivial can I go ahead and push to merge proposals first? :P
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 331 2014-10-12 05:07:55 <johnnygoode_> I'm having a bit of trouble getting started on bitcoinj. Can I get a helping hand?
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 347 2014-10-12 05:28:31 <Luke-Jr> hm
 348 2014-10-12 05:29:03 <Luke-Jr> I wonder if we ought to be noticing equal-height forked chains, and giving their transactions similar treatment as reorg'd ones, before the reorg
 349 2014-10-12 05:29:18 MaxSan has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
 350 2014-10-12 05:29:32 <Luke-Jr> (equal-work really)
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 353 2014-10-12 05:33:50 <phantomcircuit> Luke-Jr, yes but that would be difficult and requires changes to the p2p protocol
 354 2014-10-12 05:34:04 <sipa> huh
 355 2014-10-12 05:34:10 <sipa> he just means in the wallet, i presume
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 357 2014-10-12 05:34:54 <Luke-Jr> sipa: no
 358 2014-10-12 05:35:13 <Luke-Jr> sipa: right now, when we reorg, we take the transactions being removed from the now-dead blocks and put them in the mempool ignoring (some) policy
 359 2014-10-12 05:35:23 <Luke-Jr> we should treat forked chains similarly IMO
 360 2014-10-12 05:35:56 <earlz> So, what does the "true" second argument to `getblock` actually do?
 361 2014-10-12 05:36:06 <sipa> earlz: decode the block or something
 362 2014-10-12 05:36:13 <Luke-Jr> earlz: contrast it with false
 363 2014-10-12 05:36:59 <earlz> On some older altcoins, I see it gives a full summary of the block including the equivalent of `getrawtransaction ..  1` of each tx in the block... but I don't see that on bitcoin itself, at least not the newest version
 364 2014-10-12 05:37:17 <earlz> weird..
 365 2014-10-12 05:37:21 <earlz> it's true by default
 366 2014-10-12 05:37:28 <earlz> altcoins are weird I guess
 367 2014-10-12 05:37:41 <sipa> read the documentation :)
 368 2014-10-12 05:38:13 <earlz> so there is no equivalent to the altcoin behavior then? It's be really nice to get all info about all transactions in a block in one call
 369 2014-10-12 05:38:14 <gwillen> Luke-Jr: the goal being to reduce the chance to double-spend against them by trying to keep the two branches in sync?
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 371 2014-10-12 05:38:33 <sipa> earlz: use batched json-rpc :)
 372 2014-10-12 05:38:35 <Luke-Jr> gwillen: right
 373 2014-10-12 05:38:39 * gwillen nods
 374 2014-10-12 05:38:55 <earlz> ugh... I need to get an API that actually supports batching
 375 2014-10-12 05:39:10 <sipa> bitcoind does since ages
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 377 2014-10-12 05:39:31 <earlz> well I mean my client api
 378 2014-10-12 05:39:47 <earlz> Currently using a huge hackjob of an api for C#
 379 2014-10-12 05:41:25 <earlz> terrible http://sourceforge.net/p/bitnet/code/HEAD/tree/trunk/
 380 2014-10-12 05:42:52 <earlz> probably have to mostly writ eit custom to do proper batching
 381 2014-10-12 05:43:13 <sipa> you're better off spending that time on an RPC that just returns all transactions :p
 382 2014-10-12 05:43:29 <phantomcircuit> sipa, you cant do that
 383 2014-10-12 05:43:38 <sipa> phantomcircuit: for 1 block
 384 2014-10-12 05:43:41 <phantomcircuit> oh
 385 2014-10-12 05:43:45 <phantomcircuit> yeah i did that before
 386 2014-10-12 05:43:51 <sipa> but if you really need to process all transactions, you should use the p2p protocol
 387 2014-10-12 05:44:06 <earlz> I still petition for a `getblockbynumber` rpc call, even if orphans make it confusing
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 389 2014-10-12 05:44:16 <phantomcircuit> sipa, but then you cant leverage the bitcoin core script template matcher
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 395 2014-10-12 06:03:12 <lechuga_> earlz: getblockhash+getblock
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 403 2014-10-12 06:13:57 <earlz> lechuga_: less calls though :(
 404 2014-10-12 06:14:28 <earlz> There's no way to even batch that shit away
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 421 2014-10-12 07:03:30 <wumpus> earlz: there is in phase 1 batch all the getblockhash calls, in batch 2 batch all the getblock calls, or get the blocks directly as linearize.py does
 422 2014-10-12 07:04:11 <wumpus> earlz: see https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/master/contrib/linearize/linearize-hashes.py 
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 431 2014-10-12 07:20:37 <phantomcircuit> earlz, write yourself a getblockhashes rpc call
 432 2014-10-12 07:20:42 <phantomcircuit> you will save a bunch of time
 433 2014-10-12 07:26:18 <Luke-Jr> phantomcircuit: or just batch it
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 437 2014-10-12 07:30:08 <wumpus> what would the advantage of a getblockhashes be over RPC batching?!
 438 2014-10-12 07:31:07 <earlz> yea I'm curious about that too
 439 2014-10-12 07:31:55 <earlz> I think getblockbynumber and then combining that with batching would be really awesome, but failing that, the two step hash then data batching wumpus described sounds decent
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 441 2014-10-12 07:32:13 <phantomcircuit> wumpus, it's about 100x faster
 442 2014-10-12 07:32:17 <phantomcircuit> no really
 443 2014-10-12 07:32:18 <phantomcircuit> :/
 444 2014-10-12 07:32:30 <earlz> If you query the RPC interface using json-rpc 2.0 is there any difference on the daemon?
 445 2014-10-12 07:32:40 <earlz> does it even diffentiate between 1.0 and 2.0?
 446 2014-10-12 07:32:47 <wumpus> phantomcircuit: I already got a 30x speedup from separate getblockhash RPC calls to RPC batching
 447 2014-10-12 07:32:55 <earlz> Only reason I could think it to be faster is locking
 448 2014-10-12 07:32:56 <wumpus> phantomcircuit: it's fast enough
 449 2014-10-12 07:33:13 <earlz> if getblockhash requires a lock
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 451 2014-10-12 07:33:59 <wumpus> here: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/5050  
 452 2014-10-12 07:34:01 <earlz> My block explorer is havign to deal with ancient altcoins as well. Anyone know off hand when batching was added to the daemon?
 453 2014-10-12 07:34:07 <phantomcircuit> wumpus, the more important one is modifying getblock to return the decoded transactions also
 454 2014-10-12 07:34:08 <wumpus> gets all the hashes in 10 seconds
 455 2014-10-12 07:34:17 <phantomcircuit> the getrawtransaction calls take forevah
 456 2014-10-12 07:34:41 <earlz> that they do
 457 2014-10-12 07:35:05 <wumpus> best to get the raw blocks and parse them yourself, it's pretty easy
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 459 2014-10-12 07:35:27 <earlz> that's why I wish you could in-place expand the block data to include transaction data
 460 2014-10-12 07:35:35 <wumpus> that *explodes* the amount of data going through RPC
 461 2014-10-12 07:35:46 <phantomcircuit> wumpus, easier to leverage the rpc stuff for script template matching
 462 2014-10-12 07:35:47 <earlz> ugh parsing adds a whole other layer of complexity
 463 2014-10-12 07:36:28 <wumpus> phantomcircuit: I've found python-bitcoinlib to be great for doing that locally
 464 2014-10-12 07:36:29 <earlz> How many libraries are capable of fully parsing scripts? Most of the ones I know of can only parse the most common opcodes
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 466 2014-10-12 07:38:12 <wizardofozzie> Earlz; you'll need to customize
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 468 2014-10-12 07:39:04 <wizardofozzie> Use Python 2.7 with bitcointools that Gavin made and tailor it with a few extras.
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 471 2014-10-12 07:41:16 <phantomcircuit> wumpus, shrug
 472 2014-10-12 07:41:30 <phantomcircuit> i agree in principle, but i just find the rpc call to be easier
 473 2014-10-12 07:41:34 <phantomcircuit> and i have patience
 474 2014-10-12 07:41:44 <phantomcircuit> (and 10 bitcoind instances to load balance over...)
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 487 2014-10-12 08:09:40 <wumpus> earlz: python-bitcoinlib can do it all
 488 2014-10-12 08:10:17 <wumpus> https://github.com/petertodd/python-bitcoinlib
 489 2014-10-12 08:10:27 <earlz> language barrier of not wanting to use python though :/
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 492 2014-10-12 08:17:28 <wumpus> that's just stubbornness :)
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 633 2014-10-12 12:39:00 <jgarzik> "Right now a complete sync for me with headers first takes one hour to get to height 295k (*) which is as far as bootstrap.dat goes. You can easily spend that much time on just the download."
 634 2014-10-12 12:39:09 <jgarzik> gmaxwell, ITYM checkpoint, not bootstrap
 635 2014-10-12 12:39:16 <jgarzik> current bootstrap goes to 317k
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 678 2014-10-12 14:22:29 * michagogo pokes jgarzik
 679 2014-10-12 14:22:40 <jgarzik> michagogo, ?
 680 2014-10-12 14:22:58 <michagogo> 17:14:19 <michagogo> Any idea if there's a way to seed a torrent from a compressed file?
 681 2014-10-12 14:23:38 <jgarzik> michagogo, You mean, send out uncompressed data, yet store as compressed data?  Interesting idea, but haven't heard of anyone doing that.
 682 2014-10-12 14:23:51 <michagogo> jgarzik: that's exactly what I mean
 683 2014-10-12 14:24:12 <jgarzik> of course, I'm into looped into the latest from the bittorrent scene
 684 2014-10-12 14:24:58 <michagogo> (running a main and test nodes, plus seeding bootstrap, on something like 50-60GB of storage, so I'm bumping up against the limit frequently)
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 686 2014-10-12 14:29:21 <Emcy> its obviously doable
 687 2014-10-12 14:29:24 <wumpus> bittorrent requires random access within a file, so at least in the naive striaightforward way it wouldn't work - you could maybe serve the torrent from a compressed file system?
 688 2014-10-12 14:29:31 <Emcy> dont know if anyone is doing though
 689 2014-10-12 14:30:21 <wumpus> (squashfs, for example)
 690 2014-10-12 14:30:52 <Emcy> bootstrap torrent seems dead anyway
 691 2014-10-12 14:31:00 <michagogo> wumpus: why wouldn't it work? Is it impossible to seek within a compressed file?
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 693 2014-10-12 14:31:52 <wumpus> michagogo: just very inefficient in  the general case
 694 2014-10-12 14:32:20 <DanMAbraham> michagogo!
 695 2014-10-12 14:32:21 <DanMAbraham> :p
 696 2014-10-12 14:32:23 <DanMAbraham> I LIKE YOUR NAME
 697 2014-10-12 14:32:31 <michagogo> DanMAbraham: uhm.
 698 2014-10-12 14:32:33 <michagogo> thanks, I guess?
 699 2014-10-12 14:33:14 * DanMAbraham is moarr
 700 2014-10-12 14:33:17 <Emcy> s-senpai noticed you michagogo
 701 2014-10-12 14:33:19 <DanMAbraham> moarrr
 702 2014-10-12 14:33:28 <michagogo> Emcy: uh, what?
 703 2014-10-12 14:33:32 <michagogo> DanMAbraham: ah, hi
 704 2014-10-12 14:33:47 <Emcy> lol
 705 2014-10-12 14:34:21 DanMAbraham is now known as moarrr
 706 2014-10-12 14:34:46 <moarrr> looks like 4 channels banned me
 707 2014-10-12 14:34:56 <michagogo> moarrr: ban evasion is bad
 708 2014-10-12 14:35:02 <michagogo> Emcy: seriously, wth?
 709 2014-10-12 14:35:03 <moarrr> #vim #dogecoin #mysql ##linux
 710 2014-10-12 14:35:13 <moarrr> michagogo: haha, evasion? i cant even change my nick
 711 2014-10-12 14:35:17 <moarrr> i didnt try and evade anything
 712 2014-10-12 14:35:23 <moarrr> but yeh, those channels are idiots
 713 2014-10-12 14:35:27 <moarrr> i think dogecoin is bullshit too
 714 2014-10-12 14:35:33 <michagogo> maybe just +q $~a?
 715 2014-10-12 14:35:37 * michagogo checks
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 717 2014-10-12 14:36:05 <wumpus> take this somewhere else please
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