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  38 2014-10-13 01:17:35 <saivann> In the absence of critical feedback, public stats for bitcoin.org will be published tomorrow, October 13th. https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin.org/issues/605
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 156 2014-10-13 04:23:52 <netbit1> hello...room/group/devs
 157 2014-10-13 04:24:05 <netbit1> and audience
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 160 2014-10-13 04:25:19 <arowser> Anybody can help to confirm if this is a getrawtransaction command issue https://github.com/arowser/bitcoin/compare/fix_getrawtransaction?diff=split&expand=1
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 162 2014-10-13 04:30:26 <phantomcircuit> arowser, what are you trying to fix?
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 164 2014-10-13 04:31:47 <arowser> when tx not in block, the confirmations should show 0, but its not show confirmations
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 167 2014-10-13 04:33:01 <phantomcircuit> arowser, i believe you're misinterpreting that code
 168 2014-10-13 04:33:41 <phantomcircuit> if hashblock is not null
 169 2014-10-13 04:33:57 <phantomcircuit> and that block is orphaned
 170 2014-10-13 04:34:03 <phantomcircuit> then confirmations returns 0
 171 2014-10-13 04:34:08 <phantomcircuit> otherwise it's simply not set
 172 2014-10-13 04:34:14 <phantomcircuit> there's 3 states
 173 2014-10-13 04:34:21 <phantomcircuit> im not sure it makes sense that there's 3 states
 174 2014-10-13 04:34:23 <phantomcircuit> but still
 175 2014-10-13 04:40:52 <arowser> yes, you are right, so the tx in orphaned block be indexd too when txindex=1?
 176 2014-10-13 04:43:40 <phantomcircuit> i think so
 177 2014-10-13 04:44:16 <arowser> ok, got it.
 178 2014-10-13 04:44:23 <arowser> thanks
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 206 2014-10-13 05:49:15 <phantomcircuit> sipa, has anybody tried replacing leveldb for the utxo with a simple sequential file
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 225 2014-10-13 06:27:35 <BlueMatt> phantomcircuit: yes. its called the blockchain?
 226 2014-10-13 06:27:59 <phantomcircuit> har
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 228 2014-10-13 06:28:04 <phantomcircuit> i meant a snapshot
 229 2014-10-13 06:28:11 <phantomcircuit> like
 230 2014-10-13 06:28:18 <phantomcircuit> at block x the utxo was y
 231 2014-10-13 06:28:34 <BlueMatt> yes. its called utxo commitments
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 233 2014-10-13 06:30:22 <phantomcircuit> BlueMatt, actually implemented by anybody yet?
 234 2014-10-13 06:30:40 <BlueMatt> I thought there was one or two, but I'd have to search to find it
 235 2014-10-13 06:30:55 <BlueMatt> there were some designed to be effeciently updateable
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 240 2014-10-13 06:36:15 <sipa> phantomcircuit: i'm sure that a specifically designed database for the utxo set can be much simpler and more performant than leveldb now
 241 2014-10-13 06:36:39 <sipa> but just a single flat file would be terribly inefficient if it doesn't fit in memory entirely
 242 2014-10-13 06:36:49 <sipa> which currently requires like 3 GB
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 245 2014-10-13 06:40:06 <phantomcircuit> sipa, really?
 246 2014-10-13 06:40:11 <phantomcircuit> didn't think it was that much
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 272 2014-10-13 07:16:03 <sipa> phantomcircuit: there's huge overhead from dynamic allocation
 273 2014-10-13 07:16:18 <sipa> phantomcircuit: you can't just access ctransactiins in serialized form
 274 2014-10-13 07:16:31 <sipa> you get like a 8x blowup by just deserialixing
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 303 2014-10-13 07:45:23 <wumpus> a more compact in-memory representation is likely possible
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 305 2014-10-13 07:46:14 <gmaxwell> sure, if its not mutable you preallocate the size of the whole thing, and just have lengths followed by the data. :)
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 310 2014-10-13 07:49:47 <sipa> wumpus: the extreme would be just not deserialize, but prefix an index structure with offsets
 311 2014-10-13 07:50:15 <sipa> the hard part is CScript, as that woyld mean it cannot dervice from std::vector anymore
 312 2014-10-13 07:52:11 <gmaxwell> could always keep that part 'seralized' and deseralize it on use... as there are relatively few places where a CScript is not opaque. (well not as few as there should be)
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 320 2014-10-13 07:56:55 <wumpus> gmaxwell: it's mutable (at least up to a degree) - outputs are marked spent and removed
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 329 2014-10-13 08:03:38 <phantomcircuit> strictly speaking the utxo just needs to be a set of unspent txid, n values
 330 2014-10-13 08:03:54 <phantomcircuit> reorgs would be expensive, but that seems like a fair trade
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 332 2014-10-13 08:05:28 <sipa> you need the scriptpubkey in the utxo set
 333 2014-10-13 08:05:33 <sipa> and amounts
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 335 2014-10-13 08:05:47 <wumpus> gmaxwell: there are some optimizations that are possible due to the current 'expanded' structure, like removing spent outputs of a transaction from memory, then again maybe it's worth giving those up if the whole structure can be represented w/ X times less memory
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 338 2014-10-13 08:06:19 <phantomcircuit> sipa, you need to be able to look those up, they dont necessarily have to be in the utxo set itself
 339 2014-10-13 08:07:14 <wumpus> phantomcircuit: it's probably a lot faster if they are, though
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 342 2014-10-13 08:07:29 <sipa> phantomcircuit: they need to be quickly acceasible, however you do that
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 345 2014-10-13 08:08:04 <wumpus> there was talk here at some point about not storing those and having the client provide them, but that'd require huge changes to the protocol
 346 2014-10-13 08:08:46 <sipa> and to the mode of operation
 347 2014-10-13 08:09:06 <sipa> you're talking about insertion-ordered txo commitments
 348 2014-10-13 08:09:34 <sipa> but those also require wallet clients to keep track of where 'their' coins are in the merkle tree
 349 2014-10-13 08:09:42 <sipa> so they can construct spending proofs
 350 2014-10-13 08:09:57 <wumpus> doesn't bitcoin core do that at the moment? :-)
 351 2014-10-13 08:10:10 <sipa> there is not even a tzo tree...
 352 2014-10-13 08:10:13 <sipa> *txo tree
 353 2014-10-13 08:10:31 <sipa> wumpus: it's also incompatible with offline wallets
 354 2014-10-13 08:10:36 <wumpus> right, it keeps track of where the transactions are in the *block* merkle tree
 355 2014-10-13 08:10:47 <sipa> you need to know where your coins are *now* in the tree
 356 2014-10-13 08:10:59 <sipa> to be able to spend them
 357 2014-10-13 08:11:12 <wumpus> ... that's a big drawback indeed
 358 2014-10-13 08:11:22 cbeams has joined
 359 2014-10-13 08:11:28 <sipa> it does mean you can have o(1) full nodes though
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 361 2014-10-13 08:12:08 <sipa> but transactiins and blocks on wire (not on disk) would become a lot bigger because they need to carry spending proofs
 362 2014-10-13 08:12:14 <sipa> with higher bandwidth as a result
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 364 2014-10-13 08:13:02 <sipa> a spending proof for bitcoin now would be over a kilobyte per txin
 365 2014-10-13 08:13:13 <wumpus> and bandwidth is going to be a problem with scaling
 366 2014-10-13 08:13:19 papa2 has joined
 367 2014-10-13 08:13:21 <sipa> with such a txo commitment scheme
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 369 2014-10-13 08:13:48 <wumpus> given everything else is equal, it would be preferable to use more storage than use more bandwidth
 370 2014-10-13 08:13:51 <sipa> sorry, a bit less than a kb
 371 2014-10-13 08:14:00 <sipa> it's a compromise
 372 2014-10-13 08:14:13 <sipa> and maybe both are interesting, as usage can adapt to where the costs lie
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 376 2014-10-13 08:15:02 <wumpus> I'm still surprised sometimes that we're able to send data over all the world that cheaply
 377 2014-10-13 08:15:50 <sipa> a compromise is something that petertodd came up with: keep the most recently updated part of the txo tree guaranteed available by full nodes (like a utxo set), so spending anything from that would not require proofs
 378 2014-10-13 08:16:05 <sipa> you'd only need them for spends of older coins
 379 2014-10-13 08:17:01 <wumpus> sound like a decent compromise, on the other hand that'd mean that offline wallets would not be possible for older coins
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 381 2014-10-13 08:18:13 <sipa> the proof creation can be outsourced
 382 2014-10-13 08:18:30 <sipa> you can have indezing services that add proofs to your transactions, perhaps for a cost
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 384 2014-10-13 08:20:04 <wumpus> right - the wallet (signing) itself could still be offline, you'd at most reveal what coins you own to the indexing service (which could be a local node)
 385 2014-10-13 08:20:20 <phantomcircuit> sipa, hmm
 386 2014-10-13 08:20:20 <wumpus> so it's not that bad
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 388 2014-10-13 08:20:42 <phantomcircuit> you're right it would cause significant performance issues for that to be a separate lookup
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 390 2014-10-13 08:21:35 <phantomcircuit> i assume the current leveldb layout is basically (txid, n) -> (scriptpubkey, amount)
 391 2014-10-13 08:21:53 <wumpus> phantomcircuit: more like txid -> [(scriptpubkey, amount)]
 392 2014-10-13 08:22:24 <phantomcircuit> no index?
 393 2014-10-13 08:22:40 <wumpus> this saves space in repeated txids, but ofc has some other drawbacks like having to update entire "Coins"
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 398 2014-10-13 08:27:35 <sipa> yeah, i want to experiment with per-txout utxo indexing at some point rather than per-txid
 399 2014-10-13 08:27:51 <sipa> duplicating version and height seems unnecessary
 400 2014-10-13 08:28:00 <sipa> but it does mean a more flat structure
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 403 2014-10-13 08:30:26 <wumpus> I wouldn't be too concerned about the version and height, but wouldn't you have to store those 32 bytes of the txid for every output?
 404 2014-10-13 08:30:38 <sipa> in memory, yes
 405 2014-10-13 08:30:52 <sipa> not on disk, as leveldb deduplicates repeated key prefixes
 406 2014-10-13 08:30:58 <wumpus> if you have a transaction with say 300 outputs, that's kind of a waste
 407 2014-10-13 08:31:13 <wumpus> ok right, maybe the same is possible in memory
 408 2014-10-13 08:31:29 <sipa> well, yes... by doing what we do now :D
 409 2014-10-13 08:31:37 <wumpus> lol, yes
 410 2014-10-13 08:31:45 <sipa> i don't know which one is better
 411 2014-10-13 08:31:58 <sipa> but a vector has also.around 32 bytes of overhead in memory
 412 2014-10-13 08:32:10 <wumpus> it has
 413 2014-10-13 08:32:18 <sipa> and we currently need a vector per txid, to store the unspent txouts
 414 2014-10-13 08:33:24 <wumpus> but those are peanuts, when you compute the overhead, by far most of the overhead is in the outputs themselves
 415 2014-10-13 08:33:34 <sipa> oh sure
 416 2014-10-13 08:34:01 <wumpus> the std::vector for the script, for example
 417 2014-10-13 08:34:18 <sipa> yes, that's how this conversation started
 418 2014-10-13 08:34:47 <sipa> now CTra saction is immutable, we could use indexed undeserialized single-malloced blocks for transactions
 419 2014-10-13 08:34:54 <wumpus> at least the vector for the unspent txouts is one per transaction, so if you divide that by the average number of outputs per transaction (which is quite large), not much remains
 420 2014-10-13 08:35:07 <sipa> if only CScript supported more than a simole stdvector as backend
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 423 2014-10-13 08:35:20 <wumpus> leveldb::slice :)
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 425 2014-10-13 08:35:35 <sipa> yeah, something like that
 426 2014-10-13 08:35:46 <sipa> it's a bit silly though
 427 2014-10-13 08:35:54 <sipa> a CScriot just *is* a byte vector
 428 2014-10-13 08:36:29 <sipa> it could be rewritten to turn CScriot into jusy utility functions that operate on byte arrays
 429 2014-10-13 08:36:34 <wumpus> maybe we shouldn't subclass at all, and just have function that take a memory slice that can be a vector or arbitrary (start,size) slice...
 430 2014-10-13 08:36:36 <wumpus> right
 431 2014-10-13 08:36:45 <sipa> rather than being methods of something that derives from one data structure
 432 2014-10-13 08:36:53 <sipa> right
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 434 2014-10-13 08:38:20 <wumpus> indeed, we already concluded for other reasons that it makes sense to move in that direction for the core structures, to have data structures and separate utility functions
 435 2014-10-13 08:38:36 <sipa> indeed
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 450 2014-10-13 08:47:30 <dabura667> With the headers first sync. I was able to sync from 0 to fully synched in 3 hours 34 minutes... amazing stuff...
 451 2014-10-13 08:50:01 cbeams has joined
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 453 2014-10-13 08:50:55 <phantomcircuit> receive version message: /BQS:0.0.1/: version 70001, blocks=0, us=127.0.0.1:8333, peer=2, peeraddr=
 454 2014-10-13 08:50:59 <phantomcircuit> same peer
 455 2014-10-13 08:50:59 <phantomcircuit> ERROR: CScriptCheck() : 058520b2b46ea7ec48a8efb764f8f526ce337ded801bbcbc584e0e1a3f09c88e:0 VerifySignature failed
 456 2014-10-13 08:51:06 <phantomcircuit> any idea what's the deal there
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 483 2014-10-13 09:41:04 <wumpus> for better or worse, the headers-first "release" is treated as a sort of 0.10.0rc0
 484 2014-10-13 09:41:24 <wumpus> phantomcircuit: peer sent a transaction with an invalid signature?
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 490 2014-10-13 09:43:23 <wumpus> it's pretty easy to get those errors when playing around w/ manual transaction signing, although you'd expect that to be rare on the main network
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 498 2014-10-13 09:46:40 <wumpus> you'd be a fool to test your experimental wallet with real coins
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 500 2014-10-13 09:47:16 <Phoebus> agreed
 501 2014-10-13 09:49:19 <kinlo> at some point you do need to use real money in your code
 502 2014-10-13 09:49:25 <kinlo> that's usually the scary part
 503 2014-10-13 09:49:31 <kinlo> did I screw up or not :p
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 505 2014-10-13 09:50:56 <phantomcircuit> wumpus, yeah it's weird and has a pretty unique client signature
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 522 2014-10-13 10:08:14 <dabura667> wumpus: tell that to my clients... lol
 523 2014-10-13 10:09:00 <dabura667> I have told them numerous times... and they keep putting it off...
 524 2014-10-13 10:09:09 syst3mw0rm has joined
 525 2014-10-13 10:09:50 <dabura667> meanwhile, their debug staff makes little transactions with 0.00006 BTC outputs.
 526 2014-10-13 10:10:01 <dabura667> *sigh*
 527 2014-10-13 10:10:49 <dabura667> they were talking about testing on Monacoin... to which I *facepalmed* very very hard.
 528 2014-10-13 10:11:06 <dabura667> how can you not afford testnet and yet afford an altcoin...
 529 2014-10-13 10:11:07 rdymac has joined
 530 2014-10-13 10:11:29 <dabura667> </endrant>
 531 2014-10-13 10:12:11 <dabura667> wumpus: I am really pumped for 0.10 tho... I will start recommending running full nodes to the semi-advanced bitcoin user friends of mine.
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 539 2014-10-13 10:24:18 <wumpus> dabura667: I wonder too. Maybe because testnet coins have no value they feel nothing is 'at stake' so it's not real testing?
 540 2014-10-13 10:25:19 <dabura667> wumpus: That was one thing they said "where do you buy testnet coins? we don't have any and can't test." to which I said "I have like 200 tBTC, you can have them if you want. They're worthless.
 541 2014-10-13 10:25:29 NJ_ has joined
 542 2014-10-13 10:25:39 <dabura667> they just don't want to have to touch their backend
 543 2014-10-13 10:25:48 <dabura667> their lead dev is lazy imo
 544 2014-10-13 10:26:08 <wumpus> but that can't explain it: they have to touch it to use an altcoin as well
 545 2014-10-13 10:26:46 <dabura667> wumpus: I know... my thought is maybe they are planning on copy+pasting from a previous Monacoin endeavour.
 546 2014-10-13 10:26:53 <wumpus> right
 547 2014-10-13 10:27:03 <dabura667> which comes back to = lazy
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 550 2014-10-13 10:27:54 <dabura667> *gah* luckily I'm not a member of their company. Just an "advisor" which I they have signed off that I am not responsible for anything they do, in return they don't have to listen to me.
 551 2014-10-13 10:28:08 <dabura667> which makes me wonder what I'm doing with my time.
 552 2014-10-13 10:28:28 <dabura667> oh well.
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 652 2014-10-13 12:41:09 <endlessdark> Hi, I would like to review the state of some of bitcoin related projects or startups. Is there any updated directory? Or should I crawl google and bitcointalk? Thanks!
 653 2014-10-13 12:44:18 max1557 has quit (Quit: max1557)
 654 2014-10-13 12:46:19 * Adlai keeps getting "Error: Invalid -rpcallowip subnet specification: 10.0.0.*" when running sipa:headfirst8, adding an -rpcallowip flag doesn't help
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 657 2014-10-13 12:54:10 * Adlai fixes his bitcoin.conf >_<
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 696 2014-10-13 13:34:48 <dabura667> Adlai: you will be surprised how fast it is. I synced mine in 3 1/2 hours from 0 (fresh install)
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 698 2014-10-13 13:39:18 <Adlai> load average >3 (on a core2duo), now @ 308507 ∴ >500 blocks/min, eta 34 minutes!?
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 735 2014-10-13 14:32:45 <dabura667> Does anyone have a guesstimate of how large a fully pruned blockchain would be? I know headers only is like 26MB and the full chain is 23GB
 736 2014-10-13 14:33:02 <dabura667> ie only txes with utxo are kept. the rest are pruned.
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 741 2014-10-13 14:34:43 <helo> dabura667: maybe gettxoutsetinfo
 742 2014-10-13 14:35:19 <helo> so ~470MB
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 749 2014-10-13 14:44:01 <dabura667> thanks
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 761 2014-10-13 14:55:00 <earlz> Is there any estimate of when 0.10 will be released?
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 808 2014-10-13 15:23:42 <Adlai> dabura667: you built up my expectations, but it's only at 315250 now
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 820 2014-10-13 15:30:28 <dabura667> how many connections / what's your DL speeds like?
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 822 2014-10-13 15:31:14 <dabura667> I had about 22 connections DLing at a stable 5Megabytes/s spurts, slowing down when verifying.
 823 2014-10-13 15:31:38 <dabura667> plus I have a 4.3 GHz 4-core CPU
 824 2014-10-13 15:31:49 <dabura667> which might help.
 825 2014-10-13 15:32:04 * dabura667 laughs uncomfortably
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 844 2014-10-13 15:56:16 <sipa> Adlai: master and headersfirst etc use subnet specification so you need rpcallowip=10.0.0.0/24
 845 2014-10-13 15:58:07 <Adlai> 8 connections, rpcallowip=127.0.0.1
 846 2014-10-13 15:58:53 <sipa> headersfirst only downloads from outgoing connections btw
 847 2014-10-13 15:59:29 <Adlai> makes sense
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 849 2014-10-13 16:00:32 <Emcy> headersfirst is not spv mode right
 850 2014-10-13 16:00:40 <Emcy> so you still cant use bitcoin until its finished
 851 2014-10-13 16:00:53 <Emcy> but its a subset of spv functionality
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 853 2014-10-13 16:02:13 <sipa> no
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 856 2014-10-13 16:02:26 <sipa> it just changes how the client synchronizes
 857 2014-10-13 16:02:33 <sipa> externally nothing changes
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 859 2014-10-13 16:03:12 <Emcy> right
 860 2014-10-13 16:03:41 <Emcy> what is the main mechanism in which it makes the initial sync faster? Im derping about it a bit.
 861 2014-10-13 16:03:55 <Emcy> its still like 3 hours or so according to reports right
 862 2014-10-13 16:04:05 <sipa> downloading from all (outgoing) peers at once
 863 2014-10-13 16:04:19 <sipa> because it knows what to download in advance
 864 2014-10-13 16:04:52 <Emcy> so the headers d/l is linear and obv much faster
 865 2014-10-13 16:05:01 <sipa> indeed
 866 2014-10-13 16:05:01 <Emcy> then the block filling is parallelised
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 868 2014-10-13 16:05:15 <sipa> it's explained in my mail :)
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 871 2014-10-13 16:05:46 <Emcy> i read it just wanted to confirm
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 873 2014-10-13 16:06:01 <Emcy> good work sipa
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 876 2014-10-13 16:06:39 <sipa> it also does not get confused by other peers announcing blocks anymore
 877 2014-10-13 16:07:39 <sipa> which before would trigger syncing from them, which, if you already were, would just confuse things and likely result in not downloading anything anymore for a while
 878 2014-10-13 16:07:47 <Emcy> i guess this should also properly leverage the switch to leveldb
 879 2014-10-13 16:08:45 <Emcy> i didint know about that behavior........no wonder so many people turn up complaining about stalled sync
 880 2014-10-13 16:08:49 <sipa> ...?
 881 2014-10-13 16:09:01 <sipa> we switched to leveldb in 0.8.0
 882 2014-10-13 16:09:10 <Emcy> i know
 883 2014-10-13 16:09:28 <Emcy> and now it can get fed blocks faster
 884 2014-10-13 16:09:43 <sipa> no
 885 2014-10-13 16:10:10 <sipa> it's very orthogonal to that
 886 2014-10-13 16:10:34 <Emcy> hm ok
 887 2014-10-13 16:11:09 <Emcy> so now with headersfirst where is the sync bottleneck? openssl dsa?
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 889 2014-10-13 16:14:08 <lechuga_> headers dont have any signatures
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 893 2014-10-13 16:15:35 <Emcy> the blocks contents do
 894 2014-10-13 16:15:58 <kjj> sipa, you finally killed my ramdisk nodes.  Now they have no advantage over disks
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 897 2014-10-13 16:19:09 <fanquake> What’s the fastest headersfirst sync time anyones seen so far? Anything well under 3 hours?
 898 2014-10-13 16:19:55 <sipa> from local nodes on a fast machine you may get under 3 hours
 899 2014-10-13 16:20:25 <sipa> Emcy: yes, after the last checkpoint signature verification is certainly the bottleneck
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 902 2014-10-13 16:21:53 <Emcy> what is the norla sync time currently (before headersfirst). The chain is like 25gb now right
 903 2014-10-13 16:22:29 <sipa> depends; if you are lucky with your download peer maybe a day
 904 2014-10-13 16:22:37 <sipa> otherwise maybe a week
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 906 2014-10-13 16:22:51 <sipa> most of the time is just spent doing nothing
 907 2014-10-13 16:23:20 <Emcy> indeed
 908 2014-10-13 16:23:34 <Emcy> perhaps bootstrap.dat will be deprecated after this
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 910 2014-10-13 16:24:32 <kjj> ramdisk to ramdisk, I could do almost as good as headers first.
 911 2014-10-13 16:26:34 <kjj> my fastest method was importing a blockchain.dat from a running pre-leveldb node and just reindexing.  I suspect that is still a hair or two faster, but not worth the upkeep any more
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 926 2014-10-13 16:42:27 <blast_> Wow never seen It take a week
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 937 2014-10-13 16:54:08 <sipa> blast_: neither have i, but i always reindexed or used a fast peer or bootstrap.dat
 938 2014-10-13 16:54:21 <sipa> but i have seen people complain
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 940 2014-10-13 16:55:38 <BlueMatt> sipa: I'll have a blazing-fast headersfirst benchmark later today (assuming its not supermicro's fault)
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 951 2014-10-13 17:07:07 <psdn> Is this the place to ask about bitcoind, and the best way to get accepting bitcoin payments on website?
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 959 2014-10-13 17:17:46 <helo> psdn: probably #bitcoin for starters
 960 2014-10-13 17:18:33 <psdn> Thank you helo.
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 964 2014-10-13 17:20:38 <jgarzik> I've seen reports of the current release client taking days to sync
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 966 2014-10-13 17:21:04 <jgarzik> I'm too impatient to test that ;p  I restart if it starts spewing orphans, a common sync behavior today
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 968 2014-10-13 17:22:16 <gmaxwell> the people reporting a week that I've talked to had been doing things like turning it off over night... or seeing it 'get stuck' (really just waiting for the next block) and deleting the blockchain and starting over. But >1 day is not unlikely, it's worse on slower links.
 969 2014-10-13 17:23:23 * Adlai got stuck due to unrelated sillyness, now past 319000. we're syncing, we're syncing!
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1008 2014-10-13 17:59:17 <blast_> Its a Syncing ship, adlai!
1009 2014-10-13 18:00:00 * Adlai doesn't know whether he can link that ad in here without getting kickbanned
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1012 2014-10-13 18:00:40 <blast_> most ad's are bad ads
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1014 2014-10-13 18:01:58 <Adlai> but vat are you sinking... abaut?
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1018 2014-10-13 18:11:30 <cfields> sipa: i'm not very helpful for headers-first code-review. are there any tests i can help out with?
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1030 2014-10-13 18:28:38 <dgenr8> jgarzik: few are that patient. so i expect headersfirst to reverse the downtrend in node count
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1037 2014-10-13 18:30:40 <jgarzik> Adlai, guffaw :)
1038 2014-10-13 18:30:51 * Adlai stopped running his node for months because it took too long to sync after some downtime
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1050 2014-10-13 18:43:36 <earlz> I asked early. but is there any estimation of when bitcoin 0.10 will be released?
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1055 2014-10-13 18:46:31 <helo> none precise and accurate
1056 2014-10-13 18:47:47 <earlz> Well, like 6 months? a year?
1057 2014-10-13 18:47:54 jtimon has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
1058 2014-10-13 18:48:14 <helo> yes, not unlike those
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1067 2014-10-13 19:06:04 <sipa> earlz: when it's ready :)
1068 2014-10-13 19:06:11 <sipa> earlz: likely within a few months
1069 2014-10-13 19:06:40 <earlz> work faster :)
1070 2014-10-13 19:06:49 <Adlai> is it customary to see lots of "Error: inputs already spent" and "Non-canonical public key" log messages?
1071 2014-10-13 19:06:50 <earlz> Is there a list of things on the roadmap?
1072 2014-10-13 19:07:02 <sipa> earlz: headersfirst and bip62
1073 2014-10-13 19:07:10 <sipa> are blockers for 0.10
1074 2014-10-13 19:07:31 <sipa> Adlai: yeah
1075 2014-10-13 19:07:32 <earlz> Nothing big beyond that?
1076 2014-10-13 19:08:09 <sipa> well 0.10 already has a large number of changes compared to 0.9.2
1077 2014-10-13 19:08:15 <sipa> i lost track
1078 2014-10-13 19:08:35 <earlz> yea I've noticed teh code is crazy different. Lot more stuff in chainparams.cpp and all
1079 2014-10-13 19:08:46 <earlz> That's just refactorings though
1080 2014-10-13 19:08:47 <Luke-Jr> sipa: don't forget proposals? :p
1081 2014-10-13 19:11:02 <sipa> Luke-Jr: we'll see where we get with that after headersfirst is in
1082 2014-10-13 19:11:38 <earlz> What's the status on headersfirst?
1083 2014-10-13 19:11:39 pen has joined
1084 2014-10-13 19:12:02 <Adlai> earlz: just got my 9th connection after headfirst finished syncing
1085 2014-10-13 19:12:17 <sipa> earlz: it works, maybe
1086 2014-10-13 19:12:27 <sipa> the code is safe, maybe
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1092 2014-10-13 19:18:30 <earlz> does it work, just need bugs and security review?
1093 2014-10-13 19:18:39 dfletcher is now known as LotsoShibotso
1094 2014-10-13 19:18:54 <sipa> earlz: see my mail
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1100 2014-10-13 19:20:25 <earlz> your mail?
1101 2014-10-13 19:20:45 <sipa> to the mailinglist
1102 2014-10-13 19:21:10 <sipa> http://sourceforge.net/p/bitcoin/mailman/message/32921390/
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1128 2014-10-13 19:42:23 <BlueMatt> cfields: ping
1129 2014-10-13 19:42:30 <cfields> pong
1130 2014-10-13 19:42:47 <BlueMatt> it looks like you took out the mingwthrd dep?
1131 2014-10-13 19:43:21 <cfields> it ends up being pulled in differently by the compiler driver anyway
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1133 2014-10-13 19:43:41 <BlueMatt> you sure it always does? we had lots of problems with that in the past
1134 2014-10-13 19:44:03 <BlueMatt> recall https://bitcoin.org/en/alert/2012-03-16-critical-vulnerability
1135 2014-10-13 19:44:20 <cfields> it should as long as -mthreads is used, and that's added by an autoconf check
1136 2014-10-13 19:44:38 <cfields> ok, i'll read-up. thanks for letting me know!
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1141 2014-10-13 19:46:22 <cfields> BlueMatt: i suppose it has to do with properly catching exceptions in bitcoin-qt ?
1142 2014-10-13 19:46:37 <BlueMatt> yes, without it exceptions lead to strange crash bugs
1143 2014-10-13 19:47:05 <BlueMatt> (the one previously was a crash bug that could be triggered because our network handling has a lot of exception usage)
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1146 2014-10-13 19:48:17 <cfields> BlueMatt: i was going by this note in gcc man page:
1147 2014-10-13 19:48:39 <cfields> http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=vdX3BHnj
1148 2014-10-13 19:49:29 <cfields> verifying now.
1149 2014-10-13 19:49:36 <BlueMatt> cfields: ok, it may have been that that was broken on the old gcc we used at the time
1150 2014-10-13 19:49:42 <BlueMatt> but yes, please double-check
1151 2014-10-13 19:50:11 <BlueMatt> is there an easy way to do a double-check that it is linking mingwthrd at compile/run-time?
1152 2014-10-13 19:50:18 <BlueMatt> s/compile/link/
1153 2014-10-13 19:50:38 <cfields> yea, it definitely makes sense to try to sanity-check for that
1154 2014-10-13 19:50:41 <cfields> i'll see if i can add one
1155 2014-10-13 19:50:54 <cfields> we do similar for libc/libstdc++ sanity
1156 2014-10-13 19:51:16 <cfields> any chance you can remember a type of exception that wasn't properly handled?
1157 2014-10-13 19:51:23 <BlueMatt> all exceptions
1158 2014-10-13 19:51:31 <BlueMatt> but its not reliable iirc
1159 2014-10-13 19:51:35 <BlueMatt> its a rather strange crash
1160 2014-10-13 19:51:38 <cfields> they were racy, i'm guessing?
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1162 2014-10-13 19:51:48 <BlueMatt> if you ran bitcoind and sent it random crap to the network port, it would crash at that time
1163 2014-10-13 19:51:53 <BlueMatt> I dont recall, sorry
1164 2014-10-13 19:52:00 <cfields> np, i'll research. thanks again.
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1180 2014-10-13 20:12:24 <cfields> BlueMatt: you're very right. there's some fishy stuff going on there.
1181 2014-10-13 20:12:46 <cfields> looks like that would've broken things
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1223 2014-10-13 21:03:21 <sipa> cfields: travis failed (randomly?) on your pr
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1225 2014-10-13 21:03:55 <cfields> heh, i'm glad it seems to always fail on me, at least :)
1226 2014-10-13 21:03:57 <cfields> looking
1227 2014-10-13 21:06:04 <cfields> mm, odd.
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1229 2014-10-13 21:08:32 <cfields> sipa: not much to go on, maybe it took a half day for Columbus day...
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1231 2014-10-13 21:08:44 <cfields> i'll fixup your nits and push a new one
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1247 2014-10-13 21:29:37 <Luke-Jr> sipa: well, it's ready to merge now.. I'm okay with rebasing after headers first, but I'd rather not if it jeopardises getting it into 0.10 :/
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1251 2014-10-13 21:30:45 <sipa> Luke-Jr: does it work?
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1253 2014-10-13 21:30:57 <sipa> as in: does it report errors from block validation?
1254 2014-10-13 21:31:15 <sipa> (sorry, haven't looked at the code now)
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1256 2014-10-13 21:32:13 <Luke-Jr> sipa: yes, it's been working since 0.6.x (though admittedly, I skipped testing the latest rebase since I was expecting to have to rebase again - but the last one was a trivial rebase…)
1257 2014-10-13 21:32:49 <Luke-Jr> the only thing that doesn't quite "work" as expected is truly-orphan blocks, which we can't validate
1258 2014-10-13 21:33:01 <Luke-Jr> but it has well-defined behaviour for that case
1259 2014-10-13 21:33:04 <sipa> hmm, then i'll have to look again
1260 2014-10-13 21:33:26 <sipa> i thought you never fixed the problem that ProcessBlock does not report validation errors anymore
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1263 2014-10-13 21:34:22 <Luke-Jr> sipa: I don't recall that ever being a problem (but I might not even if I had fixed it)
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1267 2014-10-13 21:35:49 <sipa> Luke-Jr: the code as-is cannot work
1268 2014-10-13 21:36:06 <sipa> ProcessBlock does not return rejection reasons
1269 2014-10-13 21:36:13 <sipa> i thought i mentioned that before?
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1272 2014-10-13 21:37:03 <sipa> you'd need to plug into InvalidBlockFound
1273 2014-10-13 21:37:43 <Luke-Jr> sipa: I don't see where ProcessBlock fails to return rejection reasons
1274 2014-10-13 21:38:09 <sipa> Luke-Jr: because all it does is add the block to the database, and then reorg until it reaches a stable point
1275 2014-10-13 21:38:29 <sipa> but that reorg code already catches and deals with all invalidity, because it can result in more reorgs
1276 2014-10-13 21:38:42 <Luke-Jr> sipa: it also calls CheckBlock etc
1277 2014-10-13 21:38:51 <sipa> yes, i'm talking about the last step only
1278 2014-10-13 21:38:56 <sipa> script validation
1279 2014-10-13 21:39:00 <sipa> inputs checking
1280 2014-10-13 21:39:11 <Luke-Jr> hm
1281 2014-10-13 21:39:11 <sipa> not-more-outputs-than-inputs
1282 2014-10-13 21:39:21 <sipa> those things are validated asynchronously
1283 2014-10-13 21:39:25 <Luke-Jr> does that mean the counter-DoS logic is broken for such invalid blocks?
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1285 2014-10-13 21:39:30 <sipa> no
1286 2014-10-13 21:39:38 <sipa> InvalidBlockFound deals with those
1287 2014-10-13 21:39:42 <Luke-Jr> i c
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1289 2014-10-13 21:41:46 <Luke-Jr> sipa: and this stuff would be a waste to try to address now, since HF will force redoing it anyway, correct?
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1292 2014-10-13 21:43:38 <Luke-Jr> or is that part of the HF code that's already merged/not changing?
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1294 2014-10-13 21:46:43 <sipa> so either we use a more generic callback mechanism, where more than just a nodeid can be used to send reject notices to, and the proposal code could pass in its own callback
1295 2014-10-13 21:47:24 <sipa> or you use ConnectBlock directly rather than ProcessBlock, but that requires duplicating a bunch of logic for now that is in Accept* rather than Connect* or Check*
1296 2014-10-13 21:47:51 <sipa> and that is stuff that is touched by headersfirst, so why i suggested doing it afterwards
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1298 2014-10-13 21:49:09 <sipa> Ah, i made that comment on 3727, not on 1816
1299 2014-10-13 21:49:12 <sipa> but it applies equally
1300 2014-10-13 21:49:37 <Luke-Jr> wait, doesn't that mean submitblock is broken right now, even without changes?
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1302 2014-10-13 21:50:25 <Luke-Jr> (since it will accept invalid blocks)
1303 2014-10-13 21:50:35 <sipa> seems like it, yes
1304 2014-10-13 21:51:19 <Luke-Jr> seems like a bugfix for that fixes proposals too <.<
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1306 2014-10-13 21:51:24 <Luke-Jr> definitely should fix that in any case
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1310 2014-10-13 21:52:30 <Luke-Jr> sipa: please set Milestone 0.10 for at least this, so we don't forget: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/5083
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1359 2014-10-13 22:51:14 <Luke-Jr> http://blog.pryds.eu/2014/06/compile-bitcoin-core-on-raspberry-pi.html <-- I thought we couldn't handle Pi anymore?
1360 2014-10-13 22:51:21 <Luke-Jr> did headers first fix that or something?
1361 2014-10-13 22:55:24 <gmaxwell> Luke-Jr: "couldn't handle" ... well if you're happy with it being barely usable then it can run on anything... pretty much.
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1363 2014-10-13 22:56:28 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: <512 MB RAM?
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1373 2014-10-13 22:59:37 <Luke-Jr> hm, thoughts on merging 1816 anyway, since the only issue with it is something that's already a bug regardless of it?
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1375 2014-10-13 23:00:14 <Luke-Jr> maybe better to just wait, but if the bug doesn't get fixed until RC, it'll have a hard time as a "new feature beyond freeze"
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