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  68 2014-11-03 01:30:34 <SubCreative> Having an issue getting my client to connect over default port, seems my getpeerinfo is only showing peers on random ports like 51088, 39086 etc.. Anyone help me to understand is this UPNP in action
  69 2014-11-03 01:30:36 <SubCreative> ?
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  72 2014-11-03 01:32:02 <phantomcircuit> SubCreative, sure those aren't your local ports?
  73 2014-11-03 01:32:44 <gmaxwell> SubCreative: you're seeing your _outbound_ port.
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  75 2014-11-03 01:33:21 <SubCreative> gmaxwell: ahh thanks.
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  87 2014-11-03 01:43:45 <d_rebel_> anyone here interested in trying to test our backing up and confirming the blockchain via the old bbs message network fidonet?  I think I know how to do it. just need a blockchain developer to help
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  89 2014-11-03 01:44:47 <d_rebel_> a lot of countries that block bitcoin would be unable to block this and those countries would be able to continue to use bitcoin this way via a network that is international and already in place. pm me
  90 2014-11-03 01:45:11 <gmaxwell> d_rebel_: I have a modem already for use in network partition healing. :) but using the existing fidonet network would not be polite to the others users of it.
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  92 2014-11-03 01:47:29 <d_rebel_> well. if it had a new sub conference that was optional and even hidden it wouldn't be such a big hassle. the issue is tossing packets that include each full block bootstrap and then the machines in the network with Internet access would then be able to confirm and unify the blockchain and return the confirmation to the fidochain
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  94 2014-11-03 01:48:23 <gmaxwell> the 'confirmation' ? I'm not sure what you're talking about there.
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  96 2014-11-03 01:48:44 <gmaxwell> Bitcoin is autonoymously verified, you don't need to trust anyone elses word that the data you recieved is correct; you check it for yourself.
  97 2014-11-03 01:50:53 <d_rebel_> of course. but what I'm talking about is. say they ban it in Egypt. someone could send a transaction via fidonet and it would then send that to all the other fidonet nodes via a dialup and reach one that has Internet and the transaction can enter the bitcoin process. and then the confirmed blocks could then also be tossed from the Internet bbs back to the Egyptian one etc. no Internet. no worry. am I making sense?
  98 2014-11-03 01:51:35 <gmaxwell> sure that makes fine sense.
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 101 2014-11-03 01:52:34 <d_rebel_> I think it would be something to strengthen the network in the event of censorship of the Internet or a blackout or something.  and a new use of a brilliant old network
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 103 2014-11-03 01:53:32 <gmaxwell> sure, well as I said, it's a lot of data (relative to fidonet) so care should be taken to make sure it's not considered abusive.
 104 2014-11-03 01:53:49 <d_rebel_> I think it would be something to strengthen the network in the event of censorship of the Internet or a blackout or something.  and a new use of a brilliant old network and also allows for them to send and rec email
 105 2014-11-03 01:54:21 <d_rebel_> i agree. i would think it would be more like the nodes
 106 2014-11-03 01:54:36 <d_rebel_> nodelist base
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 108 2014-11-03 01:56:22 <d_rebel_> I'm just trying to find someone to help me make it happen.  tom jennings doesn't want anything to do with fidonet anymore. so I'm kinda a lone ranger on this. i just know it would strengthen the network internationally. as long as a phone line was open you could use bitcoin. Internet or not ultimately
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 110 2014-11-03 01:57:16 <d_rebel_> also I'm not talking about storing the entire blockchain on fidonet. that's huge. it's more about using bitcoin core as the holder of that and using fidonet as the transmission network for confirmations
 111 2014-11-03 01:57:56 <d_rebel_> especially if Gavin gets his way about expanding block sizes it would definitely be much more streamlined
 112 2014-11-03 01:58:11 <gmaxwell> 'confirmations' are the blocks... you can't use bitcoin if you're partitioned from the network, and its not terribly interesting to haul data that is only interesting to a single person. The bitcoin blockchain data is sized so that it can be carried realtime over a modem.
 113 2014-11-03 01:58:25 <gmaxwell> well good luck, I'm not interested in the same things as you, I guess.
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 116 2014-11-03 01:59:31 <d_rebel_> Hahaha. well it's just an idea. my main obsession is trying to get music in the blockchain using micro transactions and essentially finally killing thr Spotify and Youtube gang rape of music
 117 2014-11-03 02:00:07 <d_rebel_> i see the blockchain as one of the most important inventions of our time.
 118 2014-11-03 02:00:34 <d_rebel_> the possibilities are endless and i believe it's the answer to so many problems
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 123 2014-11-03 02:04:00 <d_rebel_> thanks anyway gmaxwell sorry to bother u
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 450 2014-11-03 10:13:33 <cbeams> FYI, the "Is Bitcoin a Decentralized Currency?" paper (originally published in IEEE Privacy and Security, available at http://eprint.iacr.org/2013/829.pdf) was just republished at http://www.infoq.com/articles/is-bitcoin-a-decentralized-currency.
 451 2014-11-03 10:13:41 <cbeams> If anyone has published responses to that paper elsewhere, it might be good to post a link to them in the comment thread of the InfoQ post.
 452 2014-11-03 10:13:47 <Luke-Jr> wumpus: anything left for https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/5106 ?  sipa ok'd the new new name, but should i poke him to comment on github?
 453 2014-11-03 10:14:57 <sipa> done
 454 2014-11-03 10:15:35 <Luke-Jr> cbeams: looks like mostly FUD?
 455 2014-11-03 10:15:41 <Luke-Jr> sipa: thanks
 456 2014-11-03 10:15:43 <justanot1eruser> why are checkpoints still in master? Spamming shouldn't be an issue with headers-first to my understanding?
 457 2014-11-03 10:16:01 <sipa> justanot1eruser: spamming blocks, no; spamming headers, yes
 458 2014-11-03 10:16:17 akstunt600 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 459 2014-11-03 10:16:24 <sipa> (but i very much like to get rid of checkpoints too)
 460 2014-11-03 10:16:49 <Luke-Jr> maybe we should disable it by default in 0.10?
 461 2014-11-03 10:17:03 ben_vulpes has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 462 2014-11-03 10:17:04 akstunt600 has joined
 463 2014-11-03 10:17:11 <justanot1eruser> sipa: Is the path to preventing that some checkpoint-esque thing where you have to be mining abovie a certain difficulty at a certain block number?
 464 2014-11-03 10:17:21 ben_vulpes has joined
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 466 2014-11-03 10:17:26 ben_vulpes has joined
 467 2014-11-03 10:17:26 <cbeams> Luke-Jr: Well, pretty verbose FUD, if so. I mention this as InfoQ is pretty widely read by the enterprise development community, and in my experience that community has relatively little understanding of bitcoin. The article is certainly negative overall, so it would be good to respond in some fashion.
 468 2014-11-03 10:17:32 derbumi_ has joined
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 470 2014-11-03 10:18:50 <justanot1eruser> That would at least guarantee they had to generate a certain number of hashes on average to create this spamchain (that they can spam with forever unfortunately)
 471 2014-11-03 10:20:43 aphoriser has joined
 472 2014-11-03 10:20:54 <justanot1eruser> hmm, perhaps the heuristic could be requesting a chain of blocks adding up to a certain diff sum before you download their blockheaders.
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 476 2014-11-03 10:22:37 <sipa> justanot1eruser: how do you request a chain (in a verifiable way...) without downloading their headers...?
 477 2014-11-03 10:23:45 <justanot1eruser> sipa: you would just request a chain within the chain and traverse forwards (if forwards at all) then backwards from there
 478 2014-11-03 10:24:01 <justanot1eruser> apologies if you already don't start at the genesis
 479 2014-11-03 10:24:10 <sipa> right, yes, that has been suggested
 480 2014-11-03 10:24:26 <sipa> but that isn't what happens now as there is no way to do so without a protocol change
 481 2014-11-03 10:24:52 <justanot1eruser> Does headers-first not require a protocol change??
 482 2014-11-03 10:25:34 MaybeSo has joined
 483 2014-11-03 10:25:49 <sipa> no
 484 2014-11-03 10:26:04 <sipa> it uses the getheaders command rather than getblocks
 485 2014-11-03 10:26:10 <sipa> which was added in 2010 somewhere
 486 2014-11-03 10:26:16 <sipa> and is already used by SPV clients
 487 2014-11-03 10:26:48 <justanot1eruser> Do you think that protocol change would be sufficient to remove checkpoints?
 488 2014-11-03 10:26:51 wallet42 has joined
 489 2014-11-03 10:27:11 <sipa> i think we can remove checkpoints, they just need to be replaced with something weaker
 490 2014-11-03 10:27:13 <Luke-Jr> cbeams: not even possible to comment
 491 2014-11-03 10:27:32 <justanot1eruser> sipa: something weaker being a difficulty requirement by block x or what?
 492 2014-11-03 10:27:33 <cbeams> Luke-Jr: because of the login requirement?
 493 2014-11-03 10:27:40 <Luke-Jr> cbeams: registering accounts is broken
 494 2014-11-03 10:27:55 <cbeams> Ugh. Well, I have an account and can log in. Can proxy for you if you like :)
 495 2014-11-03 10:28:19 <Luke-Jr> cbeams: http://codepad.org/MRPhiuqQ
 496 2014-11-03 10:29:36 <cbeams> Luke-Jr: will post, thx. I'll attribute it to you when doing so.
 497 2014-11-03 10:29:39 rubensayshi has joined
 498 2014-11-03 10:29:44 <wumpus> sipa:  the checkpoint data itself is still useful, for example for progress estimation, but indeed it could be weaker
 499 2014-11-03 10:29:48 mkarrer has joined
 500 2014-11-03 10:29:58 <sipa> wumpus: yeah, it would be nice if it didn't actually lock in the chain
 501 2014-11-03 10:30:05 CheckDavid has joined
 502 2014-11-03 10:30:17 <sipa> even if just to remove the misunderstanding that they add security
 503 2014-11-03 10:30:47 <wumpus> yes, or that the bitcoin core devs determine the 'normative' chain
 504 2014-11-03 10:31:14 twbt has joined
 505 2014-11-03 10:33:10 <MaybeSo> Can someone tell me, is the public key used for bitcoin alerts located below a standard EDCSA pub key?
 506 2014-11-03 10:33:10 <MaybeSo> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/f157cbb44340dab23f79f914b80ab9925c4cb4c5/src/chainparams.cpp#L115
 507 2014-11-03 10:34:01 <sipa> cbeams: "Imagine what would happen if developers added a rule that doubled the mining payout, and added a extra payout to developers directly. Presumably nobody - except miners and developers - would except such a change, and just stick to an old version of the system. The result would be a blockchain fork, with world where the old miners and developers live their happy world with coins that are worthless, and the rest of the world - together with...
 508 2014-11-03 10:34:07 <sipa> new miners - ignoring them without any further problems."
 509 2014-11-03 10:34:16 <sipa> s/except such a change/accept/
 510 2014-11-03 10:34:57 <sipa> MaybeSo: 'below' ?
 511 2014-11-03 10:35:23 <sipa> needs more grammar fixes :(
 512 2014-11-03 10:35:28 lmatteis has joined
 513 2014-11-03 10:35:48 <cbeams> sipa: will post and attribute to you (with grammar fixes :). Thx.
 514 2014-11-03 10:36:37 won9 has quit (Quit: won9)
 515 2014-11-03 10:36:47 <t7> sipa: what kinda traffic hits your dns server?
 516 2014-11-03 10:37:13 <MaybeSo> sipa: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/f157cbb44340dab23f79f914b80ab9925c4cb4c5/src/chainparams.cpp...
 517 2014-11-03 10:37:13 <wumpus> the only thing that would happens if developers added such a rule is a lot of laughing people and that developer never to be taken seriously again :p
 518 2014-11-03 10:37:58 <MaybeSo> sipa: secp256k1 ECDSA key
 519 2014-11-03 10:38:00 <MaybeSo> ?
 520 2014-11-03 10:38:18 <sipa> maybe add "As every node verifies everything, deploying a controversial change to a node ultimately just results in you excluding yourself from the system from everyone else's viewpoint. Yes, developers decide what goes into releases, but it is the people using the system who decide what release to run."
 521 2014-11-03 10:38:25 okae has joined
 522 2014-11-03 10:38:42 <sipa> t7: a few QPS
 523 2014-11-03 10:38:51 <sipa> MaybeSo: the alert key is a secp256k1 key, yes
 524 2014-11-03 10:39:03 <sipa> cbeams: ^
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 526 2014-11-03 10:39:24 <MaybeSo> ty spia
 527 2014-11-03 10:39:27 <MaybeSo> sipa*
 528 2014-11-03 10:39:27 <cbeams> sipa: got it, thx
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 535 2014-11-03 10:47:02 <cbeams> sipa: where did the quote you're responding to come from? I don't see it in the paper.
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 538 2014-11-03 10:47:15 <sipa> cbeams: i'm just adding a comment
 539 2014-11-03 10:47:31 <cbeams> sipa: understood.
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 545 2014-11-03 10:55:44 <Luke-Jr> wumpus: "Having said that, I don't think it's a blocker to fix this bug, and the alternative would have impact deep into the call chain." <-- do you mean you don't consider fixing submitblock to be a blocker for 0.10, or that the "ugliness" of a temporary signal handler doesn't need to be fixed for the PR?
 546 2014-11-03 10:56:07 <wumpus> Luke-Jr: it's not a blocker, I intend to merge it as-is
 547 2014-11-03 10:56:23 <Luke-Jr> ok
 548 2014-11-03 10:56:25 <wumpus> Luke-Jr: just wanted to let know that I don't agree asthetically, but that shouldn't get in the way of fixing bugs
 549 2014-11-03 10:56:59 <Luke-Jr> wumpus: initially, I didn't either (sipa wanted it) - but when I was done with this way, it ended up being obviously much cleaner than the alternative
 550 2014-11-03 10:57:20 <Luke-Jr> cleaner for the programmer, maybe not the execution
 551 2014-11-03 10:57:25 <sipa> wumpus: you don't agree aesthetically, or for performance reasons?
 552 2014-11-03 10:57:32 <wumpus> ideally the RPC component would register to the signal once
 553 2014-11-03 10:57:54 <sipa> boost::connections::connect is constant-time btw
 554 2014-11-03 10:58:00 <wumpus> sipa: well - asthetically for sure
 555 2014-11-03 10:58:04 <Luke-Jr> ah, a static signal handler that gets manipulated by submitblock?
 556 2014-11-03 10:58:16 <wumpus> performance I'm not sure about
 557 2014-11-03 10:58:40 <wumpus> the extra class in-between is also overhead; we register six or so signals, but we need only one
 558 2014-11-03 10:58:53 <sipa> yeah, that can be broken up
 559 2014-11-03 10:59:31 derbumi_ has joined
 560 2014-11-03 10:59:56 <Luke-Jr> too bad C++ doesn't let you instantise classes with pure virtuals XD
 561 2014-11-03 11:00:10 <wumpus> boost::connect is constant-time, but it still needs global locking
 562 2014-11-03 11:00:39 <sipa> not more than a spinlock, i expect
 563 2014-11-03 11:00:53 <sipa> (but i haven't seen the code)
 564 2014-11-03 11:00:58 ebfull has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
 565 2014-11-03 11:00:58 <wumpus> and I somehow doubt the disconnect is constant time
 566 2014-11-03 11:01:27 won9 has joined
 567 2014-11-03 11:01:59 <sipa> wumpus: let's benchmark :)
 568 2014-11-03 11:02:14 <sipa> this is interesting to know
 569 2014-11-03 11:02:32 <Luke-Jr> for a process that requires 10 minutes to call? :P
 570 2014-11-03 11:03:33 <wumpus> I'd prefer to just not use connect/disconnect in performance-critical places, although it could be argued that `submitblock` is not one of those, checking a block isn't too quick 
 571 2014-11-03 11:04:37 <wumpus> and the RPC mechanism gives enough overhead ;)
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 573 2014-11-03 11:05:11 <sipa> i don't worry about submitblock's performance
 574 2014-11-03 11:05:26 <sipa> i may worry about the performance of signals otherwise handled by main simultaneously
 575 2014-11-03 11:06:11 <wumpus> it does feel like moving a concern that should be local (an action far down the call chain) to a global (registering a global signal handler)
 576 2014-11-03 11:06:58 <wumpus> sipa: nah - we're holding the cs_main lock
 577 2014-11-03 11:07:23 <sipa> we are, or we are not?
 578 2014-11-03 11:07:47 <wumpus> we are?
 579 2014-11-03 11:07:56 <sipa> we shouldn't be
 580 2014-11-03 11:08:11 <sipa> only ProcessNewBlock itself should lock cs_main
 581 2014-11-03 11:09:04 <wumpus> oh, submitblock is marked as thread-safe, no, we're probably not holding it
 582 2014-11-03 11:09:19 <sipa> ok, a RegisterValidationSignals() + UnregisterValidationSignals() takes 6.7 microseconds here
 583 2014-11-03 11:09:37 <Luke-Jr> it is? I was assuming we had cs_main held..
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 585 2014-11-03 11:09:39 <sipa> i don't think we'd care even if that was milliseconds
 586 2014-11-03 11:09:48 <sipa> (for the purpose of submitblock)
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 589 2014-11-03 11:10:56 <Luke-Jr> hm
 590 2014-11-03 11:10:56 <sipa> wumpus: so, there are two ways of accomplishing this: either set up a simulation environment in which you manually go through the steps, and can observe the results - or you submit the data to the global block validation (where we'll want to send it anyway, afterwards)
 591 2014-11-03 11:10:58 <wumpus> right, we don't register a lot of handlers anyhow
 592 2014-11-03 11:11:05 <Luke-Jr> don't we need cs_main to prevent the signals from racing?
 593 2014-11-03 11:11:15 <sipa> boost signals has its own locking
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 596 2014-11-03 11:12:10 <wumpus> sipa: well the other way would be to pass the validation interface through the call chain
 597 2014-11-03 11:12:29 <Luke-Jr> ok, then can we just merge this as-is for now, to move forward on the ones depending on it? optimisations can be parallel to those easily ;)
 598 2014-11-03 11:12:37 <sipa> wumpus: that won't work in more asynchronous processing, which we're moving towards anyway
 599 2014-11-03 11:12:52 <wumpus> sipa: this solution won't work for more asynchronous processing anyway
 600 2014-11-03 11:13:08 <sipa> not exactly, but it can easily be extended
 601 2014-11-03 11:13:14 <wumpus> sipa: as we register the signal before the call and unregister it after, any signals raised afterward would be lost
 602 2014-11-03 11:13:22 <wumpus> sipa: not really - it uses the fact that no signal was raised
 603 2014-11-03 11:13:36 <wumpus> in the async case that's not possible to determine
 604 2014-11-03 11:14:04 <sipa> there can be a signal for 'stable state reached'
 605 2014-11-03 11:14:06 Subo1977 has joined
 606 2014-11-03 11:14:14 <cbeams> Luke-Jr: Comment posted at http://www.infoq.com/articles/is-bitcoin-a-decentralized-currency#anch115795
 607 2014-11-03 11:14:28 <sipa> wumpus: and you listen for that signal, make it signal an own condition variable, which the rpc waits for
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 609 2014-11-03 11:14:46 <wumpus> sipa: sure...
 610 2014-11-03 11:15:08 <sipa> anyway, sure, more asynchronous processing will need a lot of work
 611 2014-11-03 11:15:09 <cbeams> sipa: I have posted yours as well, but for some reason it is not showing up in any browser other than the one I posted it from. Some caching issue probably. I've emailed them, but assume it will eventually show up. Here's a screenshot in the meantime: http://imgur.com/5IM2Sfp
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 613 2014-11-03 11:15:21 <Luke-Jr> cbeams: I saw sipa's there
 614 2014-11-03 11:15:31 <cbeams> Luke-Jr: weird. ok, thanks.
 615 2014-11-03 11:15:46 <sipa> wumpus: i just disagree with passing validation callbacks into an inherently global validation engine
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 618 2014-11-03 11:16:14 <wumpus> sipa: when I first read that code I supposed that would be needed, I assumed the only reason to register a global callback would be to receive asynchronous signals
 619 2014-11-03 11:16:59 <cbeams> Luke-Jr: I see sipa's now too. I guess the cache caught up.
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 621 2014-11-03 11:18:13 <wumpus> sipa: so if that is the plan later on, I suppose this solution is fine
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 623 2014-11-03 11:18:55 <sipa> we can always investigate more efficient solutions when they're necessary
 624 2014-11-03 11:18:57 <wumpus> it's a weird way if the only goal would be to provide a side-channel to get a result from a call deep in the side chain, but seen that way it makes sense
 625 2014-11-03 11:19:16 <sipa> presumably more asynchronous process will mean more signal handlers too
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 628 2014-11-03 11:20:44 <sipa> wumpus: disconnect is indeed linear in the number of connections
 629 2014-11-03 11:20:52 <wumpus> I'm not so worried about efficiency here, but about transparency, signals are useful, but overusing them can result in code that is too fragmented to understand what is going on
 630 2014-11-03 11:21:09 <wumpus> anyhow - I consider this settled, future asynchronicity is a good reason
 631 2014-11-03 11:21:19 <sipa> understood
 632 2014-11-03 11:21:44 <wumpus> good to know about the disconnect
 633 2014-11-03 11:24:17 <sipa> wumpus: if you store the 'connection' object that signal.connect returns, i think you can disconnect it in constant time
 634 2014-11-03 11:24:36 <wumpus> sipa: ah that makes sense, I forget that that was even possible
 635 2014-11-03 11:24:38 <sipa> (i assume it's stored as a doubly-linked list internally)
 636 2014-11-03 11:27:10 <wumpus> and in this case it'd make a lot of sense to do that, as the connect and disconnect happens in the same scope
 637 2014-11-03 11:27:15 <wumpus> nah, something for later
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 797 2014-11-03 14:51:11 <dgenr8> <jgarzik> ...questions like that just lead to "what is your risk tolerance?" responses
 798 2014-11-03 14:51:13 <dgenr8> expect more adoption by real-time merchants to be met by increasingly sophisticated and easy-to-use double-spending wallets.
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 800 2014-11-03 14:52:14 <Luke-Jr> dgenr8: maybe. it will be interesting to see the first time someone is prosecuted for double spending.
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 808 2014-11-03 14:59:58 <paveljanik> wumpus: #5196 - should I squash all commits in a new branch and do new PR?
 809 2014-11-03 15:00:20 <wumpus> paveljanik: O it in the same branch and re-use the same PR
 810 2014-11-03 15:00:55 <paveljanik> looks like I need to learn something new...
 811 2014-11-03 15:01:18 <wumpus> you can do it in a new branch locally - just push to the same one on github
 812 2014-11-03 15:01:38 <paveljanik> ah, ok, will try.
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 815 2014-11-03 15:02:37 <dgenr8> Luke-Jr: whatever, but adoption will beat a hasty retreat
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 818 2014-11-03 15:03:31 <Luke-Jr> dgenr8: some things are more important than "adoption asap"
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 820 2014-11-03 15:04:25 <Luke-Jr> (like honesty in "selling points")
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 823 2014-11-03 15:14:11 <paveljanik> wumpus: looks like I screwed things up :-(
 824 2014-11-03 15:15:12 <wumpus> paveljanik: I hope you made a new branch so you still have the old one to start anew from? (if not, don't fear, git keeps a history of everything in 'git reflog')
 825 2014-11-03 15:15:39 <paveljanik> I do have a full diff of course and can redo...
 826 2014-11-03 15:15:59 <paveljanik> sorry for confusion :-(
 827 2014-11-03 15:16:51 <wumpus> git rebase -i (commit on top of your commits), then in the editor that pops up mark all but the first one to 'fixup', exit and save, and it should have squashed
 828 2014-11-03 15:17:15 <wumpus> (you can also use 'squash' instead of 'fixup' if you want to combine the commit messages)
 829 2014-11-03 15:20:42 <Luke-Jr> wumpus: git reflog is not immortal :|
 830 2014-11-03 15:20:56 <Luke-Jr> wumpus: `git branch -M` destroys the target branch's history
 831 2014-11-03 15:21:16 <wumpus> Luke-Jr: it usually keeps at least short-term history
 832 2014-11-03 15:21:33 <wumpus> unless you tell it to destroy it, of course
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 837 2014-11-03 15:24:44 <Luke-Jr> wumpus: did you know git stash is just another branch? :P
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 842 2014-11-03 15:25:18 <Luke-Jr> and the Nth stash is just the branch from N log-history ago..
 843 2014-11-03 15:25:27 <Luke-Jr> which means when you pop something, it's removed from the log :\
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 848 2014-11-03 15:28:32 <paveljanik> wumpus: redid everything from scratch in paveljanik:header-defines2, sorry
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 850 2014-11-03 15:31:56 <arre> Hi! I was wondering whether the behavior of SIGHASH_ANYONECANPAY is correct in the bitcoin wiki, reading the code the input script is not the only element (as it includes the txid-hash/sequence/etc. of the transaction it is spending), or am I mistaken? https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/OP_CHECKSIG
 851 2014-11-03 15:33:24 <arre> It looks like it was explicitly changed in the wiki to say that the script is the only part being signed and the wiki has said that for over a year, so I'm not sure if I'm missing something obvious
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 860 2014-11-03 15:37:35 <wumpus> Luke-Jr: I didn't know that stash was interacting with the reflog, no
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 862 2014-11-03 15:38:10 <wumpus> paveljanik: git push github header-defines2:header-defines
 863 2014-11-03 15:38:20 <wumpus> eh, push -f
 864 2014-11-03 15:38:25 <wumpus> then it will appear in the same pull request
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 866 2014-11-03 15:38:48 <justanotheruser> arre: You are wondering why only the script is signed or...?
 867 2014-11-03 15:39:27 <arre> in a checksig with anyonecanpay, is the hash of the output which is being spent part of that signature?
 868 2014-11-03 15:39:39 <arre> justanotheruser: because the wiki implies it is not
 869 2014-11-03 15:40:01 <justanotheruser> arre: No, you are letting anyone pay
 870 2014-11-03 15:40:49 <justanotheruser> I can make a tx sign it like that and not have to resign it when they have added more inputs
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 872 2014-11-03 15:41:05 <arre> so this edit is correct? the txid which is being spent is completely dropped? there is no txid being hashed? https://en.bitcoin.it/w/index.php?title=OP_CHECKSIG&action=historysubmit&diff=34949&oldid=34927
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 875 2014-11-03 15:41:58 <arre> justanotheruser: I know any other inputs aren't part of the signature, I was wondering about the txid of the output being spent
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 884 2014-11-03 15:43:29 <justanotheruser> arre: Is your concern that they are going to redeem another tx using that same script?
 885 2014-11-03 15:43:43 <arre> Yes, is that possible?
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 887 2014-11-03 15:44:00 <justanotheruser> arre: if you reuse addresses, no
 888 2014-11-03 15:44:16 <sipa> arre: the txid of the output being spent is always signed, afaik
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 890 2014-11-03 15:44:43 <sipa> and the vout index
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 894 2014-11-03 15:45:36 <arre> sipa: hrm, that edit in Jan 2013 made me feel like it wasn't and reading the code it looks like the txid was signed, I was just wondering whether I was missing anything obvious or some weird edge case
 895 2014-11-03 15:45:51 <justanotheruser> if the outputs being signed wasn't a requirement and the output was malleably you might as well go op_true
 896 2014-11-03 15:45:58 <justanotheruser> *malleable
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 901 2014-11-03 15:46:43 <sipa> arre: no clue what the wiki says - feel free to correct it, but it's not like people actively track the changes there
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 905 2014-11-03 15:47:53 <justanotheruser> sipa: does ANYONECANPAY sign the whole input (meaning you can specify output redeemed) or just the script?
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 908 2014-11-03 15:49:11 <arre> justanotheruser: well if you're willing to take anything and aren't signing the txid of any inputs it actually makes malleability concerns moot if you don't reuse addresses, since you'd be able to spend it no matter what the txid being spent is (which is why I was asking)
 909 2014-11-03 15:49:44 <sipa> justanotheruser, arre: i suggest just reading the source code
 910 2014-11-03 15:49:46 <justanotheruser> arre: indeed. Bitcoin wasn't designed for address reuse, so it very well may be that way
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 913 2014-11-03 15:50:00 <justanotheruser> sipa: in the middle of trying to find it in interpreter.cpp
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 915 2014-11-03 15:50:18 <sipa> the older version in test/sighash_test may be more readable
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 920 2014-11-03 15:51:05 <sipa> the one in script/interpreter is optimized and more direct (just hashes the stuff wanted directly; the older version implements it as a series of transformations)
 921 2014-11-03 15:52:30 <arre> sipa: haha yeah thanks, I usually would rely on the code and be done, but I only asked in here because maybe there was some kind of odd undocumented way to do it or something weird (like that crazy SIGHASH_SINGLE 0x01 bug)
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1056 2014-11-03 17:44:57 <Nova_> Bitcoin newbie here, anyone that can give me some help with questions/concerns?
1057 2014-11-03 17:45:28 <sipa> Nova_: not without knowing what your question is
1058 2014-11-03 17:45:28 <Nova_> I would appreciate someone with extensive knowledge that has a minute or two to spare. :\
1059 2014-11-03 17:45:50 <Nova_> Its about mining/purchasing/trading
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1062 2014-11-03 17:47:04 <sipa> Nova_: #bitcoin
1063 2014-11-03 17:47:48 <sipa> Nova_: don't PM me please; #bitcoin
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1068 2014-11-03 18:02:52 <justanotheruser> sipa: I don't understand why requesting a header starting at a high work block - 2000 and going backwards would be a protocol change. You are just sending a bunch of getheader inv messages, aren't you?
1069 2014-11-03 18:03:07 <sipa> justanotheruser: how would you know where to start?
1070 2014-11-03 18:03:16 <sipa> without already knowing the headers...
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1072 2014-11-03 18:03:47 <sipa> and 'getheaders' is a separate message, not an inv
1073 2014-11-03 18:03:48 <justanotheruser> sipa: they would tell you where to start. If they didn't have sufficient difficulty they can't produce the blocks. If they do, they will give you that set of 2000 that has a certain diff sum
1074 2014-11-03 18:04:06 <sipa> look at how getheaders works now
1075 2014-11-03 18:04:17 <justanotheruser> right, inv is just saying you have something
1076 2014-11-03 18:04:19 <justanotheruser> I mixed that up
1077 2014-11-03 18:04:25 <sipa> there's no way to tell it 'give me headers starting somewhere recently but not too recently'
1078 2014-11-03 18:04:30 <sipa> you have to give it an actual hash
1079 2014-11-03 18:05:10 <justanotheruser> oh, a block locator object is a hash not a number you're saying?
1080 2014-11-03 18:05:46 <sipa> it's a set of hashes
1081 2014-11-03 18:05:53 <sipa> and if it was a number: in which chain?
1082 2014-11-03 18:06:02 <justanotheruser> the one they give you
1083 2014-11-03 18:06:28 <sipa> headers don't have a number
1084 2014-11-03 18:07:01 <justanotheruser> the index doesn't matter much. The fact that you would be receiving blocks that require work does
1085 2014-11-03 18:07:41 <justanotheruser> you might as well ask them for any set of blocks that have diff sum > X
1086 2014-11-03 18:07:46 <sipa> agree
1087 2014-11-03 18:07:54 <sipa> but that's a protocol change (and may be tricky too)
1088 2014-11-03 18:08:11 <sipa> gmaxwell suggested that somewhere in 2012 or so
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1090 2014-11-03 18:08:28 <sipa> 2011 probably
1091 2014-11-03 18:08:34 <sipa> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/User:Gmaxwell/Reverse_header-fetching_sync
1092 2014-11-03 18:09:04 <justanotheruser> is it *that* tricky? You could just have a block locator field that isn't really a set of block hashes, rather, a code saying "give me the best headers you got"
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1094 2014-11-03 18:09:51 <justanotheruser> the consequence is many clients don't know how to do that so it would have to have to revert to forward fetching if it failed with all peers
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1174 2014-11-03 19:40:37 <andytoshi> can someone give me some guidance on https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/4226#issuecomment-50566467 ... my code does exactly what `gettxout` does to lookup outputs in the mempool, so i guess any refactoring i do for `explainrawtransaction` shoeld also be done to `gettxout`
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1204 2014-11-03 20:12:18 <earlz> can rescanning a wallet be made at all multithreaded?
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1208 2014-11-03 20:15:19 <justanotheruser> earlz: I don't see why not. You would have to deal with all the concurrency issues of course.
1209 2014-11-03 20:15:55 <earlz> I meant without code changes :(
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1211 2014-11-03 20:16:37 <earlz> or rather, how can a rescan be sped up when you have a large amount of keys
1212 2014-11-03 20:17:08 <justanotheruser> umm, you can set the number of script verification threads with -par
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1218 2014-11-03 20:21:25 <sipa> earlz: 99% of the time of a rescan is loading the blocks from disk
1219 2014-11-03 20:21:34 <sipa> many or few keys hardly mattets
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1221 2014-11-03 20:22:04 <justanotheruser> oh really? I always thought ecdsa validation was the bottleneck, not ID
1222 2014-11-03 20:22:06 <justanotheruser> *IO
1223 2014-11-03 20:22:21 <sipa> a rescan does not do signaturw checks
1224 2014-11-03 20:22:51 <sipa> it's just a search for missing wallet transactions
1225 2014-11-03 20:23:07 <justanotheruser> I always mix up rescan and reindex
1226 2014-11-03 20:23:18 <gmaxwell> there are probably some stupid slowdowns seralizing/deseralizing data, I'm sure someone who bothered profiling it would be much enlightened.
1227 2014-11-03 20:24:58 <earlz> sipa: well, in my case it's thousands of keys and it's 3% done after 2 days
1228 2014-11-03 20:25:03 <sipa> wut?
1229 2014-11-03 20:25:07 <sipa> it should take 10 minutes
1230 2014-11-03 20:25:21 <sipa> are you sure you're talking about a rescan?
1231 2014-11-03 20:25:34 <justanotheruser> earlz: are you sure you're not making the same mistake I just made and reindexing?
1232 2014-11-03 20:25:35 <sipa> and not downloading the chain?
1233 2014-11-03 20:26:04 <earlz> chain is downloaded. ugh let me check terminology
1234 2014-11-03 20:26:21 <justanotheruser> Fortunately I've never actually done a reindex when I meant rescan
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1244 2014-11-03 20:36:58 <sipa> andytoshi: i suppose... any more specific question?
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1252 2014-11-03 20:48:05 <andytoshi> sipa: are there any docs about what CMemPool and CCoins and CCoinsViewMemPool are and how they interact?
1253 2014-11-03 20:48:25 <andytoshi> sipa: seems to me jeff is asking me to move functionality into CTxMemPool but i don't know what that class is supposed to encompass
1254 2014-11-03 20:49:02 <andytoshi> maybe i should just close the PR and work on other stuff until i am familiar with the codebase..
1255 2014-11-03 20:49:17 <sipa> CMemPool is the mempool, CCoins is a set of UTXOs belonging to a single transactions; CCoinsView is a view on the UTXO set, and CCoinsViewMempool is a UTXO set via that mixes in the effects of a mempool on top of another UTXO set view
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1257 2014-11-03 20:49:40 <andytoshi> ok thx
1258 2014-11-03 20:49:44 <sipa> i have no clue how the word 'via' ended up in that sentence
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1282 2014-11-03 21:13:46 <cfields> sipa: ping. re script return codes, I suspect you'd rather just return BAD_DER_SIG as an error rather than enumerating the fine-grained possible failures? with the exception of HIGH_S and BAD_HASHTYPE
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