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   8 2014-11-04 00:07:52 <belcher> i posted this idea about coinjoin, any thoughts? since im thinking of coding up a play implementation, dont want to waste time if it has some fatal crypto flaw https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=279249.msg9384411#msg9384411
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  26 2014-11-04 00:23:13 <gmaxwell> belcher: first known CJs on the network were paid... there is nothing special about doing that but it complicates making the values indistingushable.
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  30 2014-11-04 00:24:48 <belcher> interesting, didnt know they were paid
  31 2014-11-04 00:24:54 <belcher> the payment is added to the change address, which under darkwallet's scheme is already not private
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  35 2014-11-04 00:29:32 <belcher> but is there any attacks you can see against the scheme? someone suggested it might make it easier for sybils because now they get paid
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  39 2014-11-04 00:31:41 <gmaxwell> maybe, but sybils help your privacy against anyone who isn't getting data from the sybil.
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  43 2014-11-04 00:33:20 <belcher> also there's the idea that sybils who get your data will undercut everyone else, since honest market makers will always charge more as privacy data isnt valuable to them
  44 2014-11-04 00:33:38 <belcher> so always going for the cheapest offer might be playing into the hands of sybils
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 226 2014-11-04 05:19:26 <aburan28> "An attack on the timestamp semantics of Bitcoin" http://bramcohen.com/2014/11/03/an-attack-on-the-timestamp-semantics-of-bitcoin
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 228 2014-11-04 05:20:32 <gmaxwell> aburan28:  Too bad he moderated my response. I also replied on reddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2l83y5/an_attack_on_the_timestamp_semantics_of_bitcoin/
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 239 2014-11-04 05:43:21 <chaord> hi guys, any dev's know off the top of their head what would happen if a miner solves a block, submits it to the network, but voluntarily sets the generating transaction to have maturity of, say, 2000 blocks (instead of the current 100 blocks i think it is)
 240 2014-11-04 05:43:35 <chaord> would the network still accept the block, or is the 100 block maturity hardcoded?
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 242 2014-11-04 05:45:03 <gmaxwell> There is no signaled value at all, so nothing to set... it's just a block validity rule that coinbase tx cannot be spent for 100 blocks.
 243 2014-11-04 05:46:20 <chaord> gmaxwell: thanks for the quick response....yah, that was my understanding as well
 244 2014-11-04 05:46:33 <chaord> was mostly just curious ;)
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 279 2014-11-04 06:25:32 <Luke-Jr> rebased https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/5103 , last PR dependency for block proposals
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 283 2014-11-04 06:30:44 <gmaxwell> Luke-Jr: any chance you could give https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/5161 some testing?  I'd like to get some third party testing on it.
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 301 2014-11-04 06:41:46 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: sure, gimme a bit
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 308 2014-11-04 06:54:03 <sipa> cfields: yes
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 311 2014-11-04 06:56:32 <cfields> sipa: ok, I've got it worked up that way. With those changes, it pretty much completely defeats the purpose of the original PR by just flat-out deleting the logging and replacing it with a single error-code. But I believe that's what you wanted intially anyway
 312 2014-11-04 06:58:18 <cfields> I'll go ahead and PR that anyway, since the error codes need to be done either way for the lib. If anyone objects too loudly I can put back the more fine-grained ones I suppose.
 313 2014-11-04 06:58:48 <sipa> right, that sounds fine
 314 2014-11-04 07:01:04 <cfields> great, thanks
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 333 2014-11-04 07:18:50 <chaord> in the dev docs regarding a coinbase transaction, it says that there is a special coinbase field that replaces the field that would normally hold a signature script secp256k1 signature. However, is there a particularly good protocol reason why a coinbase transaction shouldn't support a, for example, p2sh type transaction?
 334 2014-11-04 07:19:17 <chaord> also, if this question is something that i should be asking elsewhere, please let me know...it just seemed like something that only a dev would know ;)
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 336 2014-11-04 07:21:22 <sipa> chaord: you're confusing inputs and outputs
 337 2014-11-04 07:21:52 <sipa> the part that is special in a coinbase transaction is the input (it has to have exactly one, and it doesn't contain an actual script with a signature, but just arbitrary data)
 338 2014-11-04 07:22:07 <sipa> the outputs of a coinbase transaction are completely normal, and can indeed be p2sh or anything
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 340 2014-11-04 07:22:52 <chaord> sipa: got it...and yes, you're right, i was confusing inputs and outputs (i'm rusty on the protocol side), thank you for your prompt response and setting me straight ;)
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 343 2014-11-04 07:24:04 <chaord> sipa: while I have you, so then the network simply ignores an attempt to spend outputs for a coinbase transaction until after 100 blocks then, correct?
 344 2014-11-04 07:24:32 <sipa> not just ignores; they're strictly invalid
 345 2014-11-04 07:24:41 <chaord> understood
 346 2014-11-04 07:24:58 <chaord> thanks so much for taking the time to clarify that for me...i greatly appreciate it!
 347 2014-11-04 07:25:00 <sipa> a block which tries to spend coinbase outputs before 100 blocks have passed, is invalid as well
 348 2014-11-04 07:25:28 <chaord> makes sense
 349 2014-11-04 07:26:41 <sipa> cfields: btw, how do you make make (ha!) spit out those nice 'CXX' etc lines, rather than full commands?
 350 2014-11-04 07:28:04 <cfields> sipa: uhm, i have a branch around for libsecp256k1 that fixes all that
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 352 2014-11-04 07:28:15 <cfields> forgot all about it. want me to PR it, i suppose?
 353 2014-11-04 07:28:22 <sipa> why does this not surprise me? :p
 354 2014-11-04 07:28:23 <sipa> yes :)
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 356 2014-11-04 07:28:37 <cfields> sec, i can give you a quick one-liner
 357 2014-11-04 07:28:50 <cfields> there are a few other little fixups wrt the assembler, though
 358 2014-11-04 07:29:55 <Luke-Jr> sipa: they're not *strictly* invalid - you won't get DoS-banned for them (I hope)
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 360 2014-11-04 07:30:20 <Luke-Jr> they're treated identical to if the output doesn't exist yet
 361 2014-11-04 07:30:21 <sipa> Luke-Jr: i mean it's a consensus rule that such transaction are invalid
 362 2014-11-04 07:30:27 <cfields> sipa: ah, i think it was buried in a PR i actually pushed. sec.
 363 2014-11-04 07:30:37 <sipa> but consensus rules only apply to things inside blocks, of course
 364 2014-11-04 07:30:45 <Luke-Jr> k
 365 2014-11-04 07:30:55 <Luke-Jr> hm, we really have like 3 sets of rules now, don't we? :x
 366 2014-11-04 07:31:13 <Luke-Jr> consensus rules, anti-DoS ban rules, and policies :p
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 368 2014-11-04 07:32:59 <cfields> sipa: https://github.com/theuni/secp256k1/commit/f180ef783a273f68c5688c2cb03218866d2fed21
 369 2014-11-04 07:33:08 <cfields> i'll dig up the other changes and PR em tomorrow
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 655 2014-11-04 14:31:55 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: how exactly do you need it tested? looks like it could take hours to properly test it, especially not being able to easily follow the logic (why is CAddress a subclass to the Nth degree? :/)
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 771 2014-11-04 17:20:03 <andytoshi> seems like everywhere that CCoinsViewMemPool is used, it is passed a mempool reference that is LOCK'd in the previous line, and remains locked for the duration of theCCoinsViewMemPool's lifetime
 772 2014-11-04 17:20:13 <andytoshi> should i move the lock into CCoinsViewMemPool's constructor/destructor then?
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 774 2014-11-04 17:20:39 <andytoshi> this would be a minor cleanup and would let me move forward with #4226
 775 2014-11-04 17:21:10 <sipa> sgtm
 776 2014-11-04 17:22:08 <andytoshi> kk. istm there is no LOCK macro which gives me a lock that i can hold onto, is this right? sync.h:160 is where the existing LOCK macros are
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 778 2014-11-04 17:22:52 <andytoshi> they just create CCriticalBlock's, so if i add a CCriticalBlock as a member of CCoinsViewMemPool, and copy the LOCK code into its constructor, is that a good way to do this?
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 781 2014-11-04 17:24:20 <sipa> seems reasonable
 782 2014-11-04 17:24:33 <andytoshi> cool, thx, i'll submit a PR for discussion
 783 2014-11-04 17:24:39 <sipa> having the CCriticalBlock as member of CCoinsViewMemPool is certainly cleaner than calling lock/unlock directly
 784 2014-11-04 17:24:57 <sipa> as it will correctly interact with the lock contention/inversion detection too
 785 2014-11-04 17:27:40 <andytoshi> ok, last q: CCriticalBlock wants a filename/lineno, which in the LOCK macro is given by __LINE__ and __FILE__ ... should i macro the CCoinsViewMemPool constructor or just accept that these will be the same for every CCoinsViewMemPool ?
 786 2014-11-04 17:29:07 <andytoshi> i'm leaning toward having it always be the same, imho the macro-obfuscation is not worth it
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 790 2014-11-04 17:30:28 <sipa> andytoshi: agree
 791 2014-11-04 17:31:44 <andytoshi> cool, running `make check` now
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 794 2014-11-04 17:31:57 <andytoshi> thx for all your help (esp your overview of classes yesterday), you totally unblocked me
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 798 2014-11-04 17:35:26 <sipa> you're welcome!
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 808 2014-11-04 17:42:48 <andytoshi> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/5206
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 880 2014-11-04 19:08:16 <gmaxwell> Luke-Jr: Thanks for the review; wrt testing, the only thing I think really needs testing is to setup a host that needs the discovery and verify it still learns and advertises its IP. ... I did this, but AFAIK it was only me that did it, and I'd be happier if a second person also tested it.
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 886 2014-11-04 19:09:57 <Luke-Jr> hm
 887 2014-11-04 19:10:22 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: is it supposed to work in the scenario where the public IP is IPv4, but it's connection out is over IPv6? ;)
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 892 2014-11-04 19:15:08 <gmaxwell> Luke-Jr: It'll 'work' in so far as it won't make it worse. If you accept inbound on v4, you'll need to talk to a v4 peers in order to see that address.
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 895 2014-11-04 19:15:57 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: my point is a host which sees v4 hosts as v6, but is being NAT'd into true v4
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 899 2014-11-04 19:17:34 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: I think I can test your initial scenario by disabling UPnP and IPv6, on a host with only NAT IPv4, correct?
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 901 2014-11-04 19:17:56 <gmaxwell> Yes.
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 903 2014-11-04 19:19:04 <gmaxwell> Luke-Jr: as far as the v4 hosts seen as v6. Ah, that might actually work. So long as v4 isn't limited on that host.   ... does that network config still work? I ran like that years ago, but DNS was always screwing up. :)
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 905 2014-11-04 19:19:43 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: T-Mobile uses that network config for their cellular network ;)
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 909 2014-11-04 19:20:50 <gmaxwell> Luke-Jr: ah, does inbound work at all on that?
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 911 2014-11-04 19:22:20 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: no
 912 2014-11-04 19:22:26 <Luke-Jr> but it doesn't know that? :D
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 918 2014-11-04 19:28:22 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: Address timestamp: Mar  3, 1973 09:46:40.000000000 UTC
 919 2014-11-04 19:28:41 <Luke-Jr> somehow that doesn't seem expected
 920 2014-11-04 19:29:36 <Luke-Jr> but, I don't usually watch p2p traffic either
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 922 2014-11-04 19:30:03 <Luke-Jr> seems to only affect my public IPv4 addr
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 930 2014-11-04 19:44:49 <gmaxwell> Luke-Jr: whats returning that decode?
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 932 2014-11-04 19:44:58 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: Wireshark
 933 2014-11-04 19:45:11 <Luke-Jr> all the other addr messages are 2014 dates
 934 2014-11-04 19:45:17 <gmaxwell> might just be decoding it wrong.
 935 2014-11-04 19:45:32 <Luke-Jr> I would be surprised if it was singling out my addr to decode wrong <.<
 936 2014-11-04 19:45:55 <Luke-Jr> hmm
 937 2014-11-04 19:45:56 <gmaxwell> what code are you running?
 938 2014-11-04 19:46:21 <Luke-Jr> hex 00e1f505
 939 2014-11-04 19:46:45 <Luke-Jr> gmaxwell: your branch, just pushed a bit ago with the revisions
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 945 2014-11-04 19:56:23 <Zapsoda> Hi, I'm working on a website for people to buy phone numbers and make calls from their browser's using Bitcoin and I'm looking for people who would like to work with me, My main experiance is as a devoloper so it would be great if someone could help me design the site but anyone intrested in working on this feel free to message me
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 947 2014-11-04 19:57:34 <gmaxwell> Luke-Jr: interesting, cool. I see screwy times on connect even in the non-changed codepaths.
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 949 2014-11-04 19:58:19 <gmaxwell> ah. I see.
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 951 2014-11-04 19:59:30 <gmaxwell> Luke-Jr: your setip suggetion didn't quite work because GetLocalAddress doesn't set ret.nServices / ret.nTime if it thinks it failed.
 952 2014-11-04 19:59:45 <Luke-Jr> aha
 953 2014-11-04 20:00:16 <gmaxwell> thats okay, it would be harmless to set them anyways.
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 957 2014-11-04 20:01:30 <Luke-Jr> feels like a boobytrap situation though
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 959 2014-11-04 20:01:42 <Luke-Jr> maybe add a comment somewhere
 960 2014-11-04 20:01:55 <gmaxwell> I'm just going to make it set them always.
 961 2014-11-04 20:02:09 <Luke-Jr> which part?
 962 2014-11-04 20:02:26 <Luke-Jr> if GetLocalAddress sets them always, IMO we should add a comment explaining why
 963 2014-11-04 20:02:34 <gmaxwell> K.
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 972 2014-11-04 20:16:24 <gmaxwell> Luke-Jr: updated.
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1021 2014-11-04 21:05:53 <sipa> gmaxwell, gavinandresen, wumpus: so, it seems a pretty large amount of time processing blocks is actually spent in writing things to disk (at least for me, with a node on a VPS with slow I/O)... i have some plan for improving this, by encapsulating all blockindex/blockfiles/blocks state into a class (like CCoinsViewCache does for the chainstate), and then only writing to that state, and flushing everything after processing (and relaying) a block......
1022 2014-11-04 21:05:59 <sipa> it doesn't seem hard, but likely conflicts with some other things (like pruning); how much priority do you think that should have?
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1024 2014-11-04 21:07:39 <Luke-Jr> sipa: only conflicts with the current pruning code, right? not the concept itself?
1025 2014-11-04 21:07:42 * helo grabs his woodworking tools
1026 2014-11-04 21:07:47 <sipa> Luke-Jr: indeed
1027 2014-11-04 21:08:21 <sipa> just because they touch the same state
1028 2014-11-04 21:08:31 <Luke-Jr> right, that makes sense
1029 2014-11-04 21:08:32 <cfields> sipa: actual disk-writes? or the lock time as well?
1030 2014-11-04 21:08:34 <gmaxwell> I'd like to just see the pruning code go in, if anyone is unsure of it still we could hide the options.
1031 2014-11-04 21:09:12 <sipa> cfields: lock time?
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1033 2014-11-04 21:09:34 <cfields> sipa: lock contention, i mean
1034 2014-11-04 21:09:39 <sipa> cfields: well all disk io happens with cs_main, which means it blocks other operations too
1035 2014-11-04 21:09:54 <sipa> cfields: but that's orthogonal: the problem is that right now we only process a block after writing it to disk
1036 2014-11-04 21:10:14 <cfields> ah
1037 2014-11-04 21:10:18 <sipa> cfields: and during processing we update index entries on disk several times
1038 2014-11-04 21:10:26 <sipa> all of that could easily be moved to after the processing is done
1039 2014-11-04 21:11:03 <cfields> makes sense
1040 2014-11-04 21:11:36 <cfields> gmaxwell: i don't really have any helpful input for your ip detection PR. Any corner-cases need testing?
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1042 2014-11-04 21:12:46 <Luke-Jr> sipa: I think this optimisation becomes irrelevant when/if we finally relay blocks prior to validating them
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1044 2014-11-04 21:13:19 <sipa> Luke-Jr: i'm not convinced we should do that
1045 2014-11-04 21:13:35 <sipa> (nor am i convinced that we shouldn't, to be clear)
1046 2014-11-04 21:14:20 <Luke-Jr> sipa: still, it makes this a "potentially needless" optimisation, which may help prioritising it vs pruning
1047 2014-11-04 21:14:43 * Luke-Jr shrugs
1048 2014-11-04 21:15:06 <sipa> well, maybe - but that seems longer term anyway
1049 2014-11-04 21:15:27 <helo> the idea is that if a block is in the most work chain, it is safe to relay without validation?
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1052 2014-11-04 21:16:13 <Luke-Jr> helo: the idea is that it's expensive to DoS the network with invalid blocks with a valid PoW, so might as well allow it
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1054 2014-11-04 21:16:44 <Luke-Jr> there's a github issue somewhere that has lots of discussion on the idea, including some possible risks IIRC
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1192 2014-11-04 23:10:14 <aburan28> does the mempool bitcoin wire protocol message do anything in bitcoin versions > 0.8.6 ?
1193 2014-11-04 23:10:48 Centaure has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
1194 2014-11-04 23:10:54 <dhill> yes
1195 2014-11-04 23:11:03 <dhill> it will inv the mempool to the requesting peer
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1197 2014-11-04 23:13:36 <aburan28> but will it return the entire mempool or do you have to explicitly set a inv
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1203 2014-11-04 23:20:45 <patcon> hey guys, is there theoretically any reason why it shouldn't be possible to someday ssh into a server with a bitcoin address' private key?
1204 2014-11-04 23:21:14 <patcon> or for that matter, to set up a master PGP identity that also stores my life savings?
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1206 2014-11-04 23:22:58 <patcon> I know gnupg agent allows someone to log into a server via ssh with a ecdsa pgp key, and since bitcoin uses ecdsa, my understanding is that bitcoin private keys could be used similarly?
1207 2014-11-04 23:29:06 <justanotheruser> patcon: why would you want to do that? Also, ECDSA is a signature algorithm
1208 2014-11-04 23:29:11 <patcon> ah, hey, found my answer :) http://lists.gnupg.org/pipermail/gnupg-devel/2014-January/028147.html
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1210 2014-11-04 23:30:48 <patcon> justanotheruser: tbh, i might be missing something or making rookie terminology mistakes
1211 2014-11-04 23:31:27 <justanotheruser> patcon: you want to crease a secure connection using a signature algorithm?
1212 2014-11-04 23:31:46 <sinetek> openpgp isn't too terribly secure
1213 2014-11-04 23:32:09 <sinetek> see  http://secushare.org/PGP
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1216 2014-11-04 23:33:05 <patcon> justanotheruser: i want to create a master key that I keep offline, and create a subkey for signing only that i can use as an ssh key, and another subkey to use as a bitcoin address, and another subkey with only signing for my master identity that i use for signing parties or whatever. does that make sense? (i'm not totally sure yet)
1217 2014-11-04 23:33:12 <patcon> sinetek: thanks. i'll look into it
1218 2014-11-04 23:34:05 <justanotheruser> doesn't make much sense to me. Bitcoin addresses aren't supposed to be used and it uses ecdsa, a signature algorithm, not an encryption algorithm.
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1220 2014-11-04 23:34:32 <justanotheruser> s/used/reused
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1222 2014-11-04 23:35:41 <netg> /
1223 2014-11-04 23:36:18 chaosagent has joined
1224 2014-11-04 23:36:23 <justanotheruser> ^thx
1225 2014-11-04 23:37:05 <justanotheruser> indeed, s/used/\/n18:26 -!- akstunt600 [~ak@65-78-62-173.c3-0.upd-ubr2.trpr-upd.pa.static.cable.rcn.com] has joined #bitcoin-dev\/n18:27 < netg> /
1226 2014-11-04 23:37:31 <patcon> justanotheruser: ah ok, yep, i'm definitely messing up terminology, but it seems ecdsa/cedh is in openpgp, so I guess that's what I thought I could investigate here
1227 2014-11-04 23:37:33 <netg> sorry misstyped
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1229 2014-11-04 23:37:48 <justanotheruser> ?
1230 2014-11-04 23:38:02 aburan28 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1231 2014-11-04 23:38:13 <justanotheruser> your / was right, it just happened that someone joined between so it was included
1232 2014-11-04 23:39:14 <netg> jeah still i have to admit i misstyped
1233 2014-11-04 23:39:19 <netg> i try to be honest
1234 2014-11-04 23:39:20 <patcon> haha if that was an accidentally correctionand you meant to type "?", that would be AMAZING
1235 2014-11-04 23:39:28 <sinetek> rm -rf /*
1236 2014-11-04 23:39:50 <patcon> well timed, netg :)
1237 2014-11-04 23:40:29 <justanotheruser> sinetek: rm: cannot remove `/': Permission denied
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1239 2014-11-04 23:40:46 <sinetek> justanotheruser: i wrote /*
1240 2014-11-04 23:40:57 <justanotheruser> sinetek: yeah, it did that for all my directories
1241 2014-11-04 23:41:05 <sinetek> ah
1242 2014-11-04 23:41:06 <SubCreative> lol
1243 2014-11-04 23:41:07 <sinetek> try as root
1244 2014-11-04 23:41:09 <sinetek> wrong user
1245 2014-11-04 23:41:17 <justanotheruser> ok
1246 2014-11-04 23:41:18 <SubCreative> Do not listen to him lol
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1249 2014-11-04 23:41:44 <sinetek> seriously tho, don't :p
1250 2014-11-04 23:42:07 <justanotheruser> hey, I'm on my ipod now, what just happened?
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1252 2014-11-04 23:47:10 <patcon> justanotheruser: :)
1253 2014-11-04 23:47:35 <sinetek> now don't get me banned for nothing :p
1254 2014-11-04 23:47:54 <justanotheruser> no srsly, ctcp me I'm not on my linux anymore
1255 2014-11-04 23:48:18 <netg> /
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1259 2014-11-04 23:50:29 <patcon> justanotheruser: ok, i'm new here, so I'm really starting to wonder if you're kidding... :/
1260 2014-11-04 23:51:19 <justanotheruser> patcon: I was joking about running sudo rm rf
1261 2014-11-04 23:51:49 <justanotheruser> but bitcoin addresses have a public key to be used to verify signatures, not to encrypt messages
1262 2014-11-04 23:52:09 <sinetek> this is -dev, so people should know it was not a suggestion
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1264 2014-11-04 23:52:20 * patcon is so gullible that it stopped being entertaining for friends a decade ago
1265 2014-11-04 23:53:20 <sinetek> secp256k1 is the signature algorithm that is used
1266 2014-11-04 23:53:42 <sinetek> a bitcoin address itself is not an ecsd public key
1267 2014-11-04 23:53:54 <sinetek> ecdsa
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1269 2014-11-04 23:54:28 <phantomcircuit> it's a base58 encoded ripemd160 hash of sha256 of the public key plus a checksum and a version number
1270 2014-11-04 23:55:19 <justanotheruser> an address is a public key :D
1271 2014-11-04 23:55:25 <patcon> sinetek: but any 256-bit number was a valid bitcoin private key, right?
1272 2014-11-04 23:55:35 <sinetek> No
1273 2014-11-04 23:55:36 <patcon> justanotheruser: isn't is a derivative of one?
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1275 2014-11-04 23:55:57 <justanotheruser> patcon: a public key that is a derivative of an ecdsa pubkey
1276 2014-11-04 23:55:57 <sinetek> A small portion of the "high end" is invalid for use
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1278 2014-11-04 23:56:24 <gmaxwell> mind moving this to #bitcoin, it's not releated to the development of the bitcoin protocol, reference implementation, etc.
1279 2014-11-04 23:56:44 <justanotheruser> sorry
1280 2014-11-04 23:56:50 <sinetek> phantomcircuit: the checksum and version numbers are base58 too
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1283 2014-11-04 23:57:32 <sinetek> sure
1284 2014-11-04 23:59:02 <patcon> gmaxwell: yep, but my original question was something lower level (storing bitcoin/ssh/idenity on one pgp keychain). I'm still trying to sort that out if that's ok