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  14 2014-11-06 00:15:24 <sipa> cfields: would it be unacceptably ugly to just have -lgmp inside bitcoin, and link in src/secp256k1/libsecp256k1.o or whatever the filename is?
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  16 2014-11-06 00:16:35 <cfields> sipa: it's not really a big issue
  17 2014-11-06 00:16:42 <sipa> ok
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  24 2014-11-06 00:21:05 <cfields> sipa: mm, i suppose we'll need yasm as well
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  26 2014-11-06 00:21:22 <sipa> for now it doesn't matter at all, really
  27 2014-11-06 00:21:39 <sipa> as signing isn't particularly performance oriented
  28 2014-11-06 00:21:55 <cfields> ok
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  41 2014-11-06 00:34:51 <gmaxwell> yea, no asm for now.
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  45 2014-11-06 00:47:14 <ryan-c> does bitcoin have deterministic ecdsa signatures yet?
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  54 2014-11-06 00:55:13 <phantomcircuit> ryan-c, bitcoin core does not
  55 2014-11-06 00:55:17 <phantomcircuit> some clients do
  56 2014-11-06 00:56:19 <ryan-c> know if any of them used anything other than rfc6979?
  57 2014-11-06 00:57:56 <gmaxwell> ryan-c: plenty to random things.
  58 2014-11-06 00:58:10 <gmaxwell> rfc6979 is poorly drafted and it seems a lot more complex than it is.
  59 2014-11-06 00:58:24 <gmaxwell> So it was actually really hard to talk some people who are using it into using it.
  60 2014-11-06 00:58:58 <gmaxwell> (as opposed to some adhoc scheme)
  61 2014-11-06 00:59:15 <ryan-c> happen to have any specific examples?
  62 2014-11-06 01:00:01 <gmaxwell> the JS code used by many of the websites like brainwallet.org, for example, do some adhoc determinstic signing.
  63 2014-11-06 01:00:14 <ryan-c> i was reading rfc6979 and yeah, it seems convoluted
  64 2014-11-06 01:00:25 <gmaxwell> it's really not, but the description sucks.
  65 2014-11-06 01:01:03 <gmaxwell> the reason the description sucks is partically because rfc6979 is precisely a previously standardized CSPRNG.
  66 2014-11-06 01:01:06 <ryan-c> the brainwallet.org code looked to me like it was using random nonces
  67 2014-11-06 01:01:20 <gmaxwell> it's not. (unless they changed it again, wouldn't surprise me)
  68 2014-11-06 01:01:37 <sipa> it's supposed to *look* like random nonces!
  69 2014-11-06 01:01:43 <gmaxwell> lol
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  71 2014-11-06 01:03:46 <ryan-c> gmaxwell: brainwallet.org looked to be using bitcoinjs's signature routine, which IIRC is random
  72 2014-11-06 01:04:03 <ryan-c> or maybe it was bitaddress i was looking at
  73 2014-11-06 01:04:47 <gmaxwell> ryan-c: it's bitcoinjs and it's derandomized at least in the version they were running when I last looked. I know there are like three random functions scattered in the codebase, ...
  74 2014-11-06 01:04:55 <gmaxwell> (including two that are insecure)
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  78 2014-11-06 01:06:51 <PerlPython> exit
  79 2014-11-06 01:06:58 <PerlPython> oops
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  81 2014-11-06 01:07:08 <ryan-c> it looks like it's using some rng object which *appears* to be using SecureRandom from some lib.
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  83 2014-11-06 01:08:13 <ryan-c> gmaxwell: oh, i see your comments on a github ticket about htat
  84 2014-11-06 01:08:47 <cfields> wtf...
  85 2014-11-06 01:08:55 <cfields> http://sourceforge.net/projects/boost/files/boost/1.55.0/boost_1_55_0.tar.bz2
  86 2014-11-06 01:09:12 <ryan-c> cfields: are they offering to provide you with a download manager?
  87 2014-11-06 01:09:35 <cfields> ryan-c: "The sourceforge.net website is temporarily in static offline mode."
  88 2014-11-06 01:09:54 <gmaxwell> We're sorry -- the Sourceforge site is currently in Disaster Recovery mode, and currently requires
  89 2014-11-06 01:09:58 <gmaxwell> the use of javascript to function.  Please check back later.
  90 2014-11-06 01:10:03 <ryan-c> lulwat
  91 2014-11-06 01:10:17 <cfields> and even more fun...
  92 2014-11-06 01:10:18 <cfields> HTTP request sent, awaiting response... 200 OK
  93 2014-11-06 01:10:23 <gmaxwell> maybe they meant to write "please try again: We cannot backdoor your host via this transport mechenism"
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  95 2014-11-06 01:14:26 <cfields> it's completely unobvious that the download fails, as far as i can see. an error response would've been helpful...
  96 2014-11-06 01:15:16 <cfields> travis may start failing builds. I suppose the dep-downloader should try the fallback site after the checksum fails too
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 293 2014-11-06 06:59:38 inian has joined
 294 2014-11-06 07:00:44 <inian> I running a bitcoind instance on my computer and it is using all my cores of the CPU..is there any way to limit the number of cores used?
 295 2014-11-06 07:01:48 Blxjander has joined
 296 2014-11-06 07:02:24 <Arnavion> cpulimit / cgroups
 297 2014-11-06 07:02:39 <wumpus> -par=<num>
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 299 2014-11-06 07:07:16 <inian> @arnavion - cpulimit is for linux right? is there anything for mac
 300 2014-11-06 07:07:24 ValicekB has quit ()
 301 2014-11-06 07:07:29 <wumpus> I just said
 302 2014-11-06 07:07:33 <inian> @wumpus - ./bitcoind -par=1 did not help..is there anything wrong?
 303 2014-11-06 07:08:01 <wumpus> what version?
 304 2014-11-06 07:08:27 <inian> bitcoin v 0.9.3
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 306 2014-11-06 07:08:58 <wumpus> can you look for the most recent message Using %u threads for script verification in debug.log?
 307 2014-11-06 07:09:16 <wumpus> it should say 1 if you put -par=1
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 309 2014-11-06 07:10:22 <gmaxwell> inian: you're not explaining how you used it? did you stop it and restart it with that parameter?
 310 2014-11-06 07:10:59 <inian> @wumpus I am not getting that message in my debug.log file
 311 2014-11-06 07:11:11 <wumpus> ... ok, I can't help you further
 312 2014-11-06 07:11:35 <inian> gmaxwell: yes I terminated that instance and re-ran with -par=1
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 315 2014-11-06 07:13:00 <gmaxwell> inian: it would have been at the top, when it started. There is no possiblity it wouldn't print the message, if it's actually bitcoin you're running.
 316 2014-11-06 07:13:24 Luke-Jr has joined
 317 2014-11-06 07:17:19 <inian> this is my debug.log http://pastebin.com/5cGKBSJw
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 322 2014-11-06 07:27:58 <gmaxwell> ah, okay then its only using one thread.
 323 2014-11-06 07:28:35 <gmaxwell> and you say its using multiple cpus?
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 327 2014-11-06 07:30:59 <wumpus> dah
 328 2014-11-06 07:31:09 <wumpus> indeed, it doesn't log the message if no threads are used
 329 2014-11-06 07:31:20 <gmaxwell> wumpus: yea, kinda goofy.
 330 2014-11-06 07:31:33 <phantomcircuit> inian, are you running bitcoind or bitcoin-qt ?
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 332 2014-11-06 07:31:54 <phantomcircuit> it's probably better to run with an elevated nice level instead of reducing cores
 333 2014-11-06 07:32:04 <phantomcircuit> unless you have a cooling issue
 334 2014-11-06 07:32:26 <gmaxwell> phantomcircuit: on some OSes the scheduler is stupid.. perhaps OSX is like that.
 335 2014-11-06 07:32:31 <sinetek> shall I fix this?
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 337 2014-11-06 07:33:03 <phantomcircuit> gmaxwell, i think the os x scheduler isn't great but also isn't entirely stupid as long as you reduce the priority
 338 2014-11-06 07:33:20 <inian> gmaxwell: the CPU usage from my activity monitor shows bitcoind is using 400%
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 340 2014-11-06 07:33:37 <inian> i was running 2 instances of bitcoind to simulate mining
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 342 2014-11-06 07:33:46 <phantomcircuit> o.o
 343 2014-11-06 07:33:47 <phantomcircuit> wat
 344 2014-11-06 07:34:18 <inian> phantomcircuit: I am running bitcoind
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 350 2014-11-06 07:35:56 <wumpus> and you started *both* instances with -par=1?
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 352 2014-11-06 07:36:12 <inian> yup!
 353 2014-11-06 07:36:43 <phantomcircuit> this sounds suspiciously like you have setgenerate true
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 355 2014-11-06 07:37:26 <wumpus> is there something like top -H for your os, where you can see which threads take the CPU?
 356 2014-11-06 07:38:08 <gmaxwell> inian: are you actually running with -gen=1 to mine?
 357 2014-11-06 07:38:12 <wumpus> (at least on linux we name the threads to distinguish them, no idea about osx)
 358 2014-11-06 07:38:35 <inian> gmaxwell: yes i have set gen=1 in the bitcoin.conf file
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 362 2014-11-06 07:40:13 <wumpus> that explains it, the miner grabs threads too
 363 2014-11-06 07:40:28 <gmaxwell> inian: well don't do that if you don't want it using a lot of cpu... :) ... do we still have knobs to control mining threads anymore?
 364 2014-11-06 07:40:42 <phantomcircuit> yes but why
 365 2014-11-06 07:41:06 <gmaxwell> I thought we ditched the multithreaded internal mining at some point.
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 367 2014-11-06 07:41:23 <wumpus> we do if you setgenerate through RPC
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 369 2014-11-06 07:41:51 <wumpus> no, that never happened
 370 2014-11-06 07:42:03 <inian> yes I want to control the number of miner threads..cpuminer has a flag for it..was checking if bitcoind had a similar flag..
 371 2014-11-06 07:42:20 <phantomcircuit> what are you even doing cpu mining?
 372 2014-11-06 07:42:25 <wumpus> inian: start with -gen=0, then use setgenerate RPC command to start mining with your desired number of threads
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 374 2014-11-06 07:42:54 <wumpus> OH there's an option -genproclimit too
 375 2014-11-06 07:42:59 <wumpus> use -genproclimit=1
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 377 2014-11-06 07:43:07 <wumpus> I still discover new things every day
 378 2014-11-06 07:43:12 <inian> phantomcircuit: i was just looking to play with the source code and wanted to simulate mining to test my code..
 379 2014-11-06 07:43:57 <wumpus> inian: that's ok - that's the entire reason the internal miner still exists
 380 2014-11-06 07:43:57 <gmaxwell> there yea go.
 381 2014-11-06 07:45:55 <sipa> cfields: i dehackified part already in my PR, but please go further :)
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 383 2014-11-06 07:46:11 <wumpus> I didn't find it at first because in all the other help messages (rpc threads, verification threads) we talk about "threads", however for genproclimit it is suddenly a "processor limit"
 384 2014-11-06 07:46:12 <cfields> sipa: done :)
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 386 2014-11-06 07:46:44 <sipa> cfields: it wasn't the plan to make it nonoptional so soon, but realizing that using it for just signing should be perfectly safe and an improvement over openssl already
 387 2014-11-06 07:46:47 <cfields> it actually ended up pretty clean
 388 2014-11-06 07:47:06 <sipa> wumpus: genproclimit is from the satoshi days of yoe
 389 2014-11-06 07:47:08 <sipa> *yore
 390 2014-11-06 07:47:08 <wumpus> (and I first had to brush the dust and cobwebs from it)
 391 2014-11-06 07:47:11 <wumpus> yes :)
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 393 2014-11-06 07:47:24 <cfields> sipa: i'm just narrowing down one last osx bug now, then it should be all green
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 396 2014-11-06 07:49:44 <cfields> bingo, pushed. sipa: feel free to squash any of those changes into yours
 397 2014-11-06 07:50:36 <wumpus> anyone against changing the default for genproclimit to 1 (one core) instead of -1 (all cores)?
 398 2014-11-06 07:51:17 <sipa> wumpus: sgtm
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 400 2014-11-06 07:51:43 <wumpus> (alternatively, I could also remove threading from the internal miner completely)
 401 2014-11-06 07:51:51 <sipa> wumpus: sgtm
 402 2014-11-06 07:52:13 <wumpus> @gmaxwell already thought that was the case
 403 2014-11-06 07:52:24 <wumpus> ok
 404 2014-11-06 07:52:36 <moa> amazing how fast that piece of code has become pre-historic
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 407 2014-11-06 07:53:09 <inian> wumpus: thanks that worked :)
 408 2014-11-06 07:53:11 <cfields> wumpus: for someone using it for educational purposes, i should think that single-threaded would make it substantially easier to mess with
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 411 2014-11-06 07:53:27 <inian> ./bitcoin-cli setgenerate true 1
 412 2014-11-06 07:53:59 <wumpus> cfields: exactly
 413 2014-11-06 07:54:12 <moa> like seeing a model T drive by
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 415 2014-11-06 07:54:56 <wumpus> moa: indeed, it's amazing how fast things become pre-historic these days
 416 2014-11-06 07:56:26 <moa> but it's still great to see people driving model T's
 417 2014-11-06 07:57:23 * sipa googles 'model T'
 418 2014-11-06 07:57:30 <sipa> Ah,
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 421 2014-11-06 07:57:58 <wumpus> moa: well technology getting old always seems to go through phases, the first is *yuck, that's outdated*, and soon after a group of people becomes nostalgic for it
 422 2014-11-06 07:58:17 <gmaxwell> I don't have an opinion about removing the threading, if the code isn't causing trouble its safe to leave it alone. Or remove it. ::shrugs::
 423 2014-11-06 07:58:19 <moa> sniff, i miss cpu minig
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 425 2014-11-06 07:58:56 <wumpus> gmaxwell: well for now I'm just going to change the default to 1, it's less surprising than *all cores*
 426 2014-11-06 07:59:09 <sipa> cfields: hmm, building all of libsepc, including tests and benchmarks?
 427 2014-11-06 07:59:22 <sipa> cfields: tests makes sense, if we also run them
 428 2014-11-06 07:59:32 <cfields> sipa: nope, just the lib
 429 2014-11-06 07:59:42 <sipa> well, no
 430 2014-11-06 07:59:43 <gmaxwell> wumpus: makes sense.
 431 2014-11-06 07:59:46 <cfields> the tests are built from 'make check'
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 433 2014-11-06 08:00:26 <sipa> yes, i did a 'make check' in bitcoin, and it also builds the libsecp tests
 434 2014-11-06 08:00:45 <cfields> yes, that was done explicitly. Is that not wanted?
 435 2014-11-06 08:00:49 <wumpus> otherwise the default par uses all cores, and the default generate also uses all cores...
 436 2014-11-06 08:00:49 <cfields> i assumed it would be
 437 2014-11-06 08:01:07 <sipa> cfields: ok, very good then :)
 438 2014-11-06 08:01:11 <sipa> cfields: but the tests aren't run
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 440 2014-11-06 08:01:46 <cfields> sipa: feel free to disable that, it's what i assumed you would want
 441 2014-11-06 08:01:52 <cfields> sipa: hmm? they run here with 'make check'
 442 2014-11-06 08:02:02 <cfields> sipa: sure you've got the newest? I force-pushed about 15 times :)
 443 2014-11-06 08:02:03 <sipa> oh, yes, they do!
 444 2014-11-06 08:02:11 <sipa> ignore me, i'm barely awake
 445 2014-11-06 08:02:15 <sipa> cfields: awesome!
 446 2014-11-06 08:02:53 ValicekB has joined
 447 2014-11-06 08:03:01 <cfields> sipa: might want to bump the test cycles down for bitcoin though, for those used to running 'make check' constantly
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 449 2014-11-06 08:04:04 <sipa> right
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 451 2014-11-06 08:04:37 <cfields> sipa: for some reason bench is made when tests are, need to track that down in the secp build
 452 2014-11-06 08:05:06 <sipa> cfields: 'make check' by default builds everything, no, to see whether it all compiles?
 453 2014-11-06 08:05:31 <sipa> we can pass --disable-benchmark to libsecp256k1 i guess
 454 2014-11-06 08:05:55 <cfields> sipa: yea, i guess you're right
 455 2014-11-06 08:06:05 <cfields> i'm barely awake too, headed the other way :)
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 457 2014-11-06 08:06:49 <sipa> the secp tests take longer than the bitcoin tests... but probably a lot less than the time already spent on building
 458 2014-11-06 08:06:56 <sipa> if the builds are cached however...
 459 2014-11-06 08:07:46 <cfields> sounds good. make whatever changes you'd like, i just wanted to get it to the point where we could fiddle with it first
 460 2014-11-06 08:07:51 <cfields> nnite
 461 2014-11-06 08:07:55 <sipa> goodnight!
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 489 2014-11-06 08:56:42 <moa> sipa: if I have a few tweaks for your libsecp25k1 build system send PR here https://github.com/sipa/secp256k1 ?
 490 2014-11-06 08:56:57 <sipa> moa: no, upstream
 491 2014-11-06 08:57:01 <CodeShark> sipa: were you able to get the rfc6979 thing to build?
 492 2014-11-06 08:57:02 <sipa> github.com/bitcoin/secp256k1
 493 2014-11-06 08:57:14 <sipa> CodeShark: haven't gotten to it yet; probably will today
 494 2014-11-06 08:57:33 <CodeShark> sipa: I think the ECDSA_sign_ex issue has been fixed
 495 2014-11-06 08:57:39 <sipa> good
 496 2014-11-06 08:57:49 <CodeShark> it's always generating the same signature for a given key and data and the signature is valid
 497 2014-11-06 08:58:35 <moa> thnx
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 587 2014-11-06 11:05:44 <wumpus> is it safe to lower the wallet's minTxFee now, a year after the minRelayTxFee was lowered? - if so/not so, comment on https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/5209
 588 2014-11-06 11:06:20 won9 has joined
 589 2014-11-06 11:07:14 <sipa> with fee estimation, i guess the main purpose of mintxfee is a safe lower bound on fees to prevent non-confirmation
 590 2014-11-06 11:07:23 <sipa> so i guess the question is how good the fee estimation is
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 592 2014-11-06 11:07:45 <wumpus> it consistenly overestimates in my experience
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 594 2014-11-06 11:08:25 <wumpus> but as it meant to be a safe lower bound; is it really safe?
 595 2014-11-06 11:08:55 <wumpus> is a sufficient part of the network now using 0.9.x?
 596 2014-11-06 11:08:55 <sipa> i don't have experience with the fee estimation code, so i can't tell
 597 2014-11-06 11:09:02 <wumpus> apart from the fee estimation code
 598 2014-11-06 11:10:02 <wumpus> after all, the rationale for changing minTxFee after minRelayTxFee was to avoid generated transactions not getting relayed at all
 599 2014-11-06 11:10:34 <sipa> yes, though as blocks are getting more full, the relay fee probably becomes less relevant and the actual voluntary fee more relevant
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 601 2014-11-06 11:10:46 <sipa> but i don't have any numbers about this
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 603 2014-11-06 11:13:36 <wumpus> the only thing the safe lower bound needs to guarantee is that transactions aren't (likely) dropped immediately after broadcasting so miners don't even get to see them
 604 2014-11-06 11:15:11 <sipa> Luke-Jr: you had some script running to see percentages of node versions?
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 663 2014-11-06 12:44:39 <jtimon> what's the right way to print a warning?
 664 2014-11-06 12:46:02 <jtimon> LogPrintStr() ?
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 678 2014-11-06 13:06:02 <wumpus> LogPrintf generally
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 707 2014-11-06 13:46:15 <Luke-Jr> wumpus: FWIW, #Qt makes it sound easy to get progressbar colour
 708 2014-11-06 13:46:40 <wumpus> Luke-Jr: ok - I thought it would be hard, especially on OSes where Qt uses the system's progress bar instead of drawing its own
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 719 2014-11-06 14:01:45 <CodeShar_> sipa: I just pushed the rfc6979 stuff into my master branch - https://github.com/ciphrex/CoinVault/commit/462292635ba7e4f00e122bca14056d020e87fb5b
 720 2014-11-06 14:01:59 <sipa> CodeShar_: and i just verified my implementation against yours
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 723 2014-11-06 14:02:50 <CodeShark> sipa: so they agree?
 724 2014-11-06 14:02:53 <sipa> yes
 725 2014-11-06 14:02:56 <CodeShark> awesome
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 735 2014-11-06 14:13:10 <CodeShark> sipa: did you do any benchmark comparisons?
 736 2014-11-06 14:13:15 <sipa> no
 737 2014-11-06 14:13:21 <sipa> i don't care about signing :)
 738 2014-11-06 14:13:22 <CodeShark> not that I was really trying to optimize performance or anything :)
 739 2014-11-06 14:13:32 <sipa> nor was i
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 750 2014-11-06 14:33:41 <JayCie> Hi there, just a small dev question: i launched bitcoind on a dedicated server and it synchronized the 21Go of previous transactions. I want to export this data as CSV. What do you suggest me to do? I looked to the bitcoin-cli tool but I can't find anything to export transactions. Any ideas?
 751 2014-11-06 14:35:15 <hearn> CSV?
 752 2014-11-06 14:35:24 <hearn> that would be a rather inefficient form to represent the block chain in
 753 2014-11-06 14:35:28 <hearn> what do you plan to do with that?
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 755 2014-11-06 14:36:15 <JayCie> data analysis using hadoop
 756 2014-11-06 14:36:32 <JayCie> i tink I can use a different format it's ok
 757 2014-11-06 14:36:37 <hearn> you probably want a database store for that
 758 2014-11-06 14:36:47 <JayCie> yes it's ok as well
 759 2014-11-06 14:37:20 <JayCie> SQL, CSV... Everything is ok for me as long as it's easily accesible from java
 760 2014-11-06 14:37:37 <JayCie> (no binaries file)
 761 2014-11-06 14:38:04 <JayCie> so is there a way to export the transactions?
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 764 2014-11-06 14:44:15 <wumpus> sure
 765 2014-11-06 14:44:54 <wumpus> for n in 0..height; getblockhash <n>, getblock <n>; end
 766 2014-11-06 14:45:07 <hearn> JayCie: a bunch of ways but they tend to get you either binary data or parsed language objects.
 767 2014-11-06 14:45:32 <hearn> JayCie: you could check out something like Insight, which is a block explorer. that builds a database that you can then query from a hadoop job
 768 2014-11-06 14:45:33 <wumpus> although it's far from the most efficient way of doing that, generally if you want to parse *the entire blockchain* you'd use a tool that parses the block data directly
 769 2014-11-06 14:46:02 <wumpus> ie https://github.com/znort987/blockparser
 770 2014-11-06 14:46:13 <wumpus> or indeed, insight, abe, etc
 771 2014-11-06 14:46:47 <JayCie> Ok ty guys, i gonna try this out
 772 2014-11-06 14:46:57 <JayCie> ty for your help :)
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 792 2014-11-06 15:32:16 <Luke-Jr> ew, when did the Send button get moved to the left side? :x
 793 2014-11-06 15:33:08 <sipa> oh noes
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 863 2014-11-06 17:06:59 <ianks> Are there some must-read resources around security for an application that interfaces with bitcoind?
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 881 2014-11-06 17:23:29 <helo> ianks: #bitcoin
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 897 2014-11-06 17:46:57 <Luke-Jr> wumpus: what did you have in mind for changing icon colours easily at runtime?
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 978 2014-11-06 19:31:25 <jtimon> Luke-Jr I assume templates in the same way the color of main vs testnet/regtest is selected
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 982 2014-11-06 19:34:52 <sipa> \o/ gpg 2.1 released (with ecc support...)
 983 2014-11-06 19:35:40 <pigeons> how long will fedora disable it
 984 2014-11-06 19:37:51 <gmaxwell> pigeons: the main ECC support is NIST curves which fedora no longer disables. ... will be interesting to see if they remove the ed25519 support.
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 986 2014-11-06 19:39:27 <sipa> seems they have curve25519 (which only does ecdh) rather than ed25519
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 988 2014-11-06 19:40:38 <sipa> ah, i misread; no, ed25519
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1000 2014-11-06 19:53:46 <Diablo-D3> gmaxwell: why are they disabling 25519?
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1012 2014-11-06 20:07:23 <Luke-Jr> Diablo-D3: Fedora/RedHat's lawyers have some weird thing against cryptography (they claim patent fears, but.. yeah)
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1015 2014-11-06 20:09:07 <pigeons> then they said, "ok if they are NIST reccomended, we'll enable them" lol, right while more info was appearing about Dual_EC_DRBG
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1018 2014-11-06 20:10:37 <sipa> the gpg guys seem to want ed25519/curve25519, but those aren't standardized in openpgp yet
1019 2014-11-06 20:10:42 <sipa> while the nist curves are
1020 2014-11-06 20:10:44 <sipa> no clue why
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1028 2014-11-06 20:23:25 <sinetek> could someone help a noob make his pull request?
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1039 2014-11-06 20:41:49 <Gozarian> does the bare multisig m of  convention limit of m <= 3 hold for both uncompressed and compressed public keys?
1040 2014-11-06 20:42:11 <Gozarian> * m of n
1041 2014-11-06 20:42:35 <coutts> hi #bitcoin-dev. i am interested in helping out, where is the best place for noobs to start? appreciate any links provided, thanks.
1042 2014-11-06 20:42:39 <Luke-Jr> Gozarian: yes
1043 2014-11-06 20:43:05 <gmaxwell> sipa: because no one was even asking for it prior to the recent concern about the NSA... and ed25519 is, of course, incompatible with generic implementation stuff for other curves, so it couldn't just be dropped in as just another curve identifier.
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1046 2014-11-06 20:44:50 <Luke-Jr> coutts: https://bitcoin.org/en/development
1047 2014-11-06 20:45:06 <coutts> Thanks Luke-Jr.
1048 2014-11-06 20:45:14 <Luke-Jr> particularly https://bitcoin.org/en/developer-documentation
1049 2014-11-06 20:45:15 <Gozarian> luke-jr: is the limit purely a function of script byte length?
1050 2014-11-06 20:45:22 <Luke-Jr> Gozarian: no.
1051 2014-11-06 20:46:49 <Gozarian> sipa posts here http://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/23893/what-are-the-limits-of-m-and-n-in-m-of-n-multisig-addresses that "standardness rules only allow up to n=3" for raw multisig
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1053 2014-11-06 20:48:42 <Luke-Jr> Gozarian: I'm not sure why you think that implies anything re byte length or compressed vs uncompressed keys
1054 2014-11-06 20:49:38 <Gozarian> but the followup answer by amaclin below sipa's answer links to a 20-of-20 bare multisig redemption - is that just relayed by a miner allowing for "non-standard" scripting?
1055 2014-11-06 20:50:24 <sipa> "relayed by a miner" makes no sense
1056 2014-11-06 20:50:30 <sipa> node relay, miners mie
1057 2014-11-06 20:51:03 <sipa> Gozarian: those are perfectly valid, just nom standard
1058 2014-11-06 20:51:25 <sipa> validityis what matters for being alloed in a block
1059 2014-11-06 20:51:49 <sipa> standardness is whether most nodes and miners in the network will accept it into a block
1060 2014-11-06 20:52:24 <Luke-Jr> standardness is scripts well-defined for common use. IsStandard is more narrow :P
1061 2014-11-06 20:52:32 <Gozarian> ...relayed by a node...
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1063 2014-11-06 20:53:37 <Luke-Jr> hopefully miners have all turned off bare multisig by now anyway
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1066 2014-11-06 20:55:42 <Gozarian> ...so if I want to have a non-standard but well-defined/valid script recorded in a block, would using a higher txn fee be the best route?
1067 2014-11-06 20:57:06 <Gozarian> luke-jr: you're saying only use p2sh? bare multisig is deprecated?
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1069 2014-11-06 20:57:45 <sipa> p2sh is much more flexible and less burdensome to the network
1070 2014-11-06 20:58:16 <sipa> and higher fee: maybe, but i doubt it matters
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1072 2014-11-06 21:01:02 <Gozarian> sipa: yes, its much more flexible and keeps the blockchain size smaller, but it's also more burdensome to me the programmer to sync/manage the scripts/hashes off chain between parties. ;)
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1074 2014-11-06 21:02:25 <Luke-Jr> Gozarian: txn fees usually don't matter if nodes don't want to relay/mine it
1075 2014-11-06 21:02:38 <Luke-Jr> p2sh is the only way multisig is in real world use afaik
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1077 2014-11-06 21:03:45 <Luke-Jr> Gozarian: consider that you can't support addresses with bare multisig
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1079 2014-11-06 21:03:56 <Luke-Jr> and most bitcoin users today do use addresses, for better or worse
1080 2014-11-06 21:05:38 <Gozarian> very good point.
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1090 2014-11-06 21:11:42 <Gozarian> do you guys have a good recommendation for a program or technique to investigate and decompile a raw txn script to readable assembly (i.e. OP_ words / addresses)?
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1092 2014-11-06 21:12:17 <Luke-Jr> Gozarian: bitcoin-tx probably can do it
1093 2014-11-06 21:12:29 <Gozarian> is there an online block explorer with it?
1094 2014-11-06 21:13:44 <Luke-Jr> no
1095 2014-11-06 21:14:56 <Gozarian> I'm surprised, wouldn't something like that be a useful tool for devs?
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1098 2014-11-06 21:19:13 <Luke-Jr> Gozarian: script disassembly is kinda not related to the idea of a block explorer
1099 2014-11-06 21:19:38 <Luke-Jr> also, block explorers are expensive to maintain/operate
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1106 2014-11-06 21:25:17 <Gozarian> Luke-Jr: I think its related... the current block explorers show the raw input/output scripts at the moment.  I think it would be more informative if they were decompiled.
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