1 2014-11-13 00:00:20 <BlueMatt> cfields: maybe already caused failure on https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/5267 ?
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   3 2014-11-13 00:01:12 <cfields> BlueMatt: it's possible, but definitely not the same failure
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   5 2014-11-13 00:01:25 <BlueMatt> ok...next question: how the hell does one debug that thing?
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   8 2014-11-13 00:02:02 <cfields> BlueMatt: that looks more like the busted comparison-tool before your last round of fixes
   9 2014-11-13 00:02:22 <BlueMatt> passes locally :(
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  11 2014-11-13 00:02:42 <cfields> BlueMatt: bitcoind is dying while the tester is running...
  12 2014-11-13 00:02:51 <BlueMatt> yes, segfault :(
  13 2014-11-13 00:02:51 <cfields> BlueMatt: didn't you fix a race like that once before?
  14 2014-11-13 00:03:04 <BlueMatt> a segfault in bitcoind caused by the tester?
  15 2014-11-13 00:03:20 <cfields> ah no, i didn't see that it was a segfault
  16 2014-11-13 00:03:33 <cfields> iirc last time it exited gracefully, no?
  17 2014-11-13 00:03:53 <BlueMatt> last time what? last time there was a race in the block tester?
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  19 2014-11-13 00:04:08 <cfields> (not relevant, i realize)
  20 2014-11-13 00:04:11 <cfields> ok, nm that
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 466 2014-11-13 06:34:54 <deego> Kudos to the developers for the sidechain paper and the new algorithm stuff. (And, I have to wonder if the current renewed interest is partly a result of these exciting developments.) Thanks!
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 486 2014-11-13 06:58:25 <warren> Is anyone already working on BIP32 support for Core?
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 490 2014-11-13 06:59:23 <justanotheruser> warren: I don't think so. AFAIK, some core devs are against integrating it.
 491 2014-11-13 06:59:59 <warren> oh?  are the reasons written anywhere?
 492 2014-11-13 07:00:15 <justanotheruser> warren: maybe in this channels logs.
 493 2014-11-13 07:00:49 <justanotheruser> The reason I've heard is that bitcoin core is supposed to be a stable reference client, not an unstable client packed with bells and whistles
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 495 2014-11-13 07:01:18 <warren> I'm considering adding watch-only address support to https://github.com/slickage/baron
 496 2014-11-13 07:01:32 <warren> a very dumb way to do it would be to use importaddress on a pool of pre-generated addresses
 497 2014-11-13 07:01:51 <warren> a better way might be extended public keys
 498 2014-11-13 07:02:28 <warren> currently baron relies upon a live Bitcoin Core wallet (with private keys)
 499 2014-11-13 07:02:46 <warren> it only receives money so there's no need for it to have private keys
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 524 2014-11-13 07:27:16 <wumpus> I'm not against adding features to the wallet, it's just that the first order of business should be to convert the wallet into a separate, SPV-based wallet
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 526 2014-11-13 07:28:01 <wumpus> it should not be part of the core anymore
 527 2014-11-13 07:28:08 <warren> and it shouldn't use db4
 528 2014-11-13 07:28:12 <wumpus> we just can't maintain all that code
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 532 2014-11-13 07:36:22 <wumpus> to be clear, I'd certainly not be opposed to integrating basic BIP32 support, which could be done without that much impact by changing the key generation function
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 536 2014-11-13 07:40:08 <phantomcircuit> wumpus, requires a new record type
 537 2014-11-13 07:40:10 <phantomcircuit> do not want
 538 2014-11-13 07:40:48 <wumpus> (note that the low-level implementation is already there, see BIP32Hash and CKey::Derive)
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 548 2014-11-13 07:53:08 <wumpus> it would make buckup policies a lot saner, if you forget to back up after 100 keys it's not catastrophic anymore
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 551 2014-11-13 07:54:36 <phantomcircuit> wumpus, that reminds me
 552 2014-11-13 07:54:41 <phantomcircuit> the default shouldn't be 100 anymore
 553 2014-11-13 07:54:43 <phantomcircuit> that's just silly
 554 2014-11-13 07:55:02 <phantomcircuit> i have wallets with a million keys that are only marginally slow at startup
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 556 2014-11-13 07:57:09 <wumpus> it's even easier to forget if the default is higher
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 558 2014-11-13 07:58:30 <wumpus> I'd agree if the keypool generation was manual instead of automatic, so the the user is automatically reminded to make a backup... then again, bip32 would be better
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 561 2014-11-13 08:04:39 <jonasschnelli> wumpus, do you know what's the status of BIP32? Even for HDWallets i think there must be a proper backup mechanism... the question for me is know, how we could ensure that the backups are encrypted
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 563 2014-11-13 08:09:06 <wumpus> jonasschnelli: what do you mean? the backup mechanism wouldn't change, you'd still just copy the wallet or use "Backup wallet" from the menu
 564 2014-11-13 08:09:10 <wumpus> which you need to backup metadata
 565 2014-11-13 08:09:38 <wumpus> the only difference will be that you can still retrieve your funds if you restore an older backup
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 567 2014-11-13 08:10:30 <wumpus> the default would be to 'fail less dangerously'
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 593 2014-11-13 08:52:35 <jonasschnelli> is travis win32 broken? Or does anyone have a clue why this build (win32) fails: https://travis-ci.org/bitcoin/bitcoin/builds/40859367
 594 2014-11-13 08:53:19 <cfields> jonasschnelli: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/5268
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 596 2014-11-13 08:54:12 <cfields> wumpus: ^^ ping and bump for your attention. PR's will likely be red and confusing until that's pulled/addressed
 597 2014-11-13 08:54:31 <jonasschnelli> cfields okay. thanks. can't ACK that because i can't test. But looks like this goes in anytime soon...
 598 2014-11-13 08:55:27 <cfields> jonasschnelli: understood and agreed. but as a data point, see here: https://travis-ci.org/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull_requests
 599 2014-11-13 08:55:31 <wumpus> cfields: do we really need to reduce paralellism? :(
 600 2014-11-13 08:55:40 <cfields> and note the green one (5268)
 601 2014-11-13 08:55:57 <wumpus> cfields: I mean all over the board; I'm fine with reducing it just for mingw
 602 2014-11-13 08:55:59 <cfields> wumpus: i've noticed that i have to do the exact same thing in gitian :\
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 604 2014-11-13 08:56:39 <wumpus> or reduce paralellism for specific projects?
 605 2014-11-13 08:56:40 <cfields> wumpus: that's possible, i suppose. I could override for the mingw ones
 606 2014-11-13 08:56:48 <wumpus> (like building qt)
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 608 2014-11-13 08:57:41 <cfields> wumpus: that's possible as well. but let's pick an easy one for now. either globally, or per-builder. then we can narrow down once we're working again
 609 2014-11-13 08:58:03 <cfields> (i'm not sure what changed, exactly. i suspect they probably changed some memory pooling or something)
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 611 2014-11-13 08:59:03 <wumpus> cfields: agreed
 612 2014-11-13 08:59:36 <cfields> wumpus: i had the same thought about limiting it for qt, problem is that with gitian i usually see it happen with bitcoin itself
 613 2014-11-13 08:59:48 <cfields> so i'm not sure that would actually fix the problem
 614 2014-11-13 09:00:16 <wumpus> cfields: bitcoin also uses a lot of memory during build
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 616 2014-11-13 09:01:00 <wumpus> if bitcoin itself is the problem I'm fine with reducing it all over the board, but if it is to fix a broken dependency build it would be a waste
 617 2014-11-13 09:01:42 <wumpus> especially for something rare like building qt...
 618 2014-11-13 09:02:19 <wumpus> BlueMatt was already talking about paying travis to give us moar power
 619 2014-11-13 09:02:21 <cfields> yea, seems the whole thing was triggered by a failed cache download, which happens very rarely, but it does happen
 620 2014-11-13 09:03:16 <cfields> i don't think we could get much more from 'em other than more paralellism... more jobs building at once
 621 2014-11-13 09:03:20 <cfields> i believe it's 4 atm
 622 2014-11-13 09:03:52 <cfields> but if that's desired, sure
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 624 2014-11-13 09:04:22 <cfields> (trying to make the point that moar power wouldn't help here, it would only speed up the bleeding :)
 625 2014-11-13 09:04:33 <wumpus> well in my opinion travis is sufficiently fast now, but reducing parallelism would make it slower ofc
 626 2014-11-13 09:04:51 <wumpus> that's going in the wrong way :)
 627 2014-11-13 09:05:10 <cfields> wumpus: i'm not 100% sure about that either. apparently they designate "1.5 cores per builder"
 628 2014-11-13 09:05:17 <cfields> no clue where the 1.5 comes from
 629 2014-11-13 09:05:23 <wumpus> also.. maybe we should just work on optimizing our tests
 630 2014-11-13 09:05:32 <wumpus> do we have statistics on how much time is spent on building versus testing?
 631 2014-11-13 09:05:36 <cfields> -j3 was a number i pulled out of my ass. possible that -j2 or -j4 could've been quicker
 632 2014-11-13 09:06:11 <wumpus> cfields: right - in general they recommend using -jN+1 or -jN+2 where N is number of cores
 633 2014-11-13 09:06:25 <cfields> i think a good chunk of the time actually comes from spin-up. i have a simple PR with a dumb optim that may help there, but i'd like to wait til it's stable again before messing with it
 634 2014-11-13 09:06:41 <wumpus> (because gcc is i/o-bound for a large chunk of its runtime and that helps pipelining - HOWEVER that requires more memory)
 635 2014-11-13 09:07:06 <cfields> wumpus: right. not trying to argue away from more paralellism by any means. only saying that cranking it up to 11 might not do what we'd hope
 636 2014-11-13 09:07:24 <wumpus> cfields: hehehehe, agreed
 637 2014-11-13 09:07:28 <cfields> *parallelism
 638 2014-11-13 09:07:36 <cfields> i always forget where to stick the damn l's :)
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 641 2014-11-13 09:08:53 <cfields> wumpus: so to get us back on track, before testing it some, would you prefer that i override and set -j2 for mingw only?
 642 2014-11-13 09:09:43 <wumpus> cfields: yes - if the problem is mingw only, let's make the workaround mingw only
 643 2014-11-13 09:09:45 <cfields> (and btw, the real fault here was the fact that we built twice, don't overlook that. a busted lib made it into the cache and poisoned the well. that one was 100% my fault and not travis)
 644 2014-11-13 09:10:09 <cfields> ok, will update the pr
 645 2014-11-13 09:11:11 <wumpus> hah, yes the first rule of optmization is to avoid doing unnecessary work, no amount of parallelism will help you there
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 648 2014-11-13 09:14:20 <cfields> wumpus: heh, not that. the problem is that we had a bad lib stuck in the cache because after the compiler error, we ran "make" again, and it successfully built and installed
 649 2014-11-13 09:14:27 <cfields> (that's kinda crazy to me actually)
 650 2014-11-13 09:15:00 <wumpus> ... that doesn't sound like something you'd expect, no, but in the case of memory problems that indeed happens
 651 2014-11-13 09:15:07 <cfields> that was then cached. but that lib was busted and failed to link, causing future build errors for everything using the cached result
 652 2014-11-13 09:15:33 <wumpus> I suppose it should just bail out when it fails once, and not try another make
 653 2014-11-13 09:15:46 <cfields> i'm not sure whether i should be impressed or saddened by the tools. it either produced a completely valid and wrong .o, or ar didn't care about the busted .o and shoved it in anyway :)
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 656 2014-11-13 09:19:43 <wumpus> well if it crashed while writing the .o, just a by-product of filesystems not being ACID, there's only so much you can do in a tool
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 658 2014-11-13 09:26:25 <cfields> wumpus: i think that PR should set things straight. I need to head to bed, but I'll leave my phone volume up for personal mails. feel free. i really don't want to wake up to a chaos of failing PRs :\
 659 2014-11-13 09:26:51 <wumpus> ok, I'll merge it when it passes travis
 660 2014-11-13 09:27:27 <cfields> ok, i'll wait for that then
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 685 2014-11-13 10:00:20 <cfields> wumpus: all green
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 689 2014-11-13 10:02:23 <warren> when attempting to gitian build the osx 0.9.3, does anyone else see a ./configure loop many times?
 690 2014-11-13 10:02:26 <warren> make: Warning: File `Makefile.in' has modification time 0.1 s in the future
 691 2014-11-13 10:02:26 <warren> /bin/bash ./config.status --recheck
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 693 2014-11-13 10:03:46 <cfields> warren: i believe that happened for 0.9.3, yes. should be gone in master after the upcoming rework
 694 2014-11-13 10:04:24 <warren> does it rely on random timing to escape the loop?
 695 2014-11-13 10:06:46 <cfields> i believe it's random timing that causes the loop, but that's a pretty pedantic answer. afaik, nobody had any noticeable problems building it.
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 701 2014-11-13 10:15:03 <cfields> wumpus: thanks. nnite
 702 2014-11-13 10:15:09 <wumpus> cfields: nn
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 727 2014-11-13 11:00:03 <elichai2> sipa, you know of any OP_CODES other than OP_RETURN that only *some* of the pools forbid?
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 807 2014-11-13 12:21:47 <elichai2> Luke-Jr, here?
 808 2014-11-13 12:22:02 <elichai2> can anyone please help me understand this code? https://github.com/luke-jr/bitcoin/blob/spamfilter/src/main.cpp#L819
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 892 2014-11-13 14:05:29 <jonasschnelli> is there a reason while bitcoind can't dump encrypted wallets?
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 894 2014-11-13 14:07:44 <sipa> jonasschnelli: yes, because it can't read the keys
 895 2014-11-13 14:08:14 <sipa> the dump format is just a text file with private keys
 896 2014-11-13 14:08:49 <jonasschnelli> sipa, yes. thats right. But there could be a dump (base64 or something like that) of the encrypted keydata?
 897 2014-11-13 14:09:09 <sipa> that's pretty pointless for a format that's intended to be interoprable
 898 2014-11-13 14:09:12 <jonasschnelli> i just think about a better format for encrypted wallets (as backup) as the BDB thing
 899 2014-11-13 14:09:35 <sipa> yeah, i don't really have a good answer for this
 900 2014-11-13 14:09:51 <sipa> as a backup that may be good, but i would hope that the dump format is more useful than that
 901 2014-11-13 14:10:06 <sipa> for example it is compatible with bitcoin wallet for android right now, i believe
 902 2014-11-13 14:10:32 <jonasschnelli> you could exchange it with other wallet-apps (requires to enter the master key while importing)?
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 904 2014-11-13 14:11:03 <sipa> jonasschnelli: the problem is that the encryption we're using is pretty application specific
 905 2014-11-13 14:11:48 <jonasschnelli> okay, i see. So unencrypting would end up in a bitcoin-core like CCryptoKeyStore
 906 2014-11-13 14:13:06 <jonasschnelli> sipa: so you would prefer having a AES256 (with the masterKey) encrypted dump?
 907 2014-11-13 14:13:17 <jonasschnelli> (as backup)
 908 2014-11-13 14:13:58 <sipa> i'm not sure what i prefer :)
 909 2014-11-13 14:14:16 <sipa> needing to enter your passphrase to create a backup is pretty bad
 910 2014-11-13 14:14:26 <jonasschnelli> me neither.. :)
 911 2014-11-13 14:14:43 <sipa> on the other hand... whenever you actually use your wallet you're going to be entering the passphrase anyway
 912 2014-11-13 14:15:03 <jonasschnelli> sipa: yes. entering passord for backup is useless. But: when your keyPools gets filled, the wallet is unencrypted.
 913 2014-11-13 14:15:07 <sipa> indeed
 914 2014-11-13 14:15:14 <sipa> which is exactly when you want to make a backup
 915 2014-11-13 14:15:23 <wumpus> right
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 918 2014-11-13 14:16:14 <wumpus> what use would it be to encrypt the dump with the masterkey? the user doesn't know that
 919 2014-11-13 14:16:14 <jonasschnelli> expect for upgrading bitcoind to a backup-capable version, there you probably like to make a backup at first start... (or a normal user could not understand why there is no backup after running and running biconid but never unlock/addaddress your wallet)
 920 2014-11-13 14:17:01 <jonasschnelli> wumpus: when filling the keypool (adding a new address) he does enter his wallet encryption password... isn't that his masterKey?
 921 2014-11-13 14:17:10 <sipa> no
 922 2014-11-13 14:17:12 <wumpus> jonasschnelli: no
 923 2014-11-13 14:17:12 <jonasschnelli> (i'm still try to understand the wallet-core)
 924 2014-11-13 14:17:18 <sipa> the masterkey is encrypted using the passphrase
 925 2014-11-13 14:17:19 <wumpus> the master key is encrypted with the wallet encryption password
 926 2014-11-13 14:17:23 <wumpus> right
 927 2014-11-13 14:17:33 <jonasschnelli> yes... right. okay. sorry for the shortcut. :)
 928 2014-11-13 14:17:35 <sipa> and the actual address keys are encrypted using the master key
 929 2014-11-13 14:17:48 <sipa> that allows changing the passphrase without reencrypting all keys
 930 2014-11-13 14:18:07 <jonasschnelli> hmm..
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 932 2014-11-13 14:18:29 <sipa> you want to encrypt it with the passphrase... but with sufficient strengtening etc
 933 2014-11-13 14:18:40 <sipa> the android wallet strengthening is terrible afaik
 934 2014-11-13 14:19:14 <wumpus> right, not forget strengthening...
 935 2014-11-13 14:20:06 <jonasschnelli> hmm... somehow it would be nice to async encrypt the wallet... encrypt with the pubKey only (like EVP_SEAL or something like that).
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 937 2014-11-13 14:20:44 <wumpus> well - you still need the plain private keys, so you need the passphrease in any case
 938 2014-11-13 14:20:45 <jonasschnelli> (i mean the wallet-backup-dumps)
 939 2014-11-13 14:21:10 <wumpus> key encryption was not designed with this in mind
 940 2014-11-13 14:21:20 <sipa> we could design an ECIES-based scheme :)
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 942 2014-11-13 14:21:37 <sipa> you could derive a 'public passphrase key' from the passphrase once
 943 2014-11-13 14:21:44 <sipa> and use that to encrypt with ECIES
 944 2014-11-13 14:22:04 <sipa> which would then require the actual passphrase to derive the private passphrase key to do decryption
 945 2014-11-13 14:22:08 <wumpus> wouldn't this all be much easier with deterministic wallets? you could just backup the key once
 946 2014-11-13 14:22:19 <sipa> YES
 947 2014-11-13 14:22:22 <wumpus> the metadata stuff isn't encrypted, so can be backed up
 948 2014-11-13 14:22:26 <wumpus> without asking for anything
 949 2014-11-13 14:22:39 <sipa> i should undust my bip32 patch :)
 950 2014-11-13 14:22:44 <sipa> (unfinished, to be clear)
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 952 2014-11-13 14:22:52 <wumpus> yes!
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 954 2014-11-13 14:23:08 <jonasschnelli> has bip32 wallet proven to be the endusers choice?
 955 2014-11-13 14:24:05 <wumpus> what does it need to prove?
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 959 2014-11-13 14:24:21 <sipa> deterministic wallets in general just have one disadvantage compared to random ones: they don't get "unstolen" over time
 960 2014-11-13 14:24:52 <sipa> i don't think this weighs up against the benefits (one backup suffices, reproducability on different devices)
 961 2014-11-13 14:25:17 <wumpus> still I feel like it would be a lot better than trying to hack the keypool based mechanism into being user friendly
 962 2014-11-13 14:25:55 <wumpus> it could still support random keys for people that prefer them, but it's less convenient
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 964 2014-11-13 14:27:15 <jonasschnelli> Okay. Right. Backing up a hd wallet somehow doesn't make sense? You just need to keep your masterkey somewhere safe?
 965 2014-11-13 14:27:35 <wumpus> you still want to backup for labels and payment requests etc
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 967 2014-11-13 14:27:56 <jonasschnelli> ah right.
 968 2014-11-13 14:27:57 <wumpus> it just makes backups less critical with regard to losing funds
 969 2014-11-13 14:28:10 <wumpus> btw: the dumpwallet format doesn't contain all our metadata
 970 2014-11-13 14:28:57 <wumpus> it's not a full backup of the wallet state, at the moment
 971 2014-11-13 14:29:00 <sipa> indeed, it's just a key backup
 972 2014-11-13 14:29:02 <jonasschnelli> Yes. So i'm not sure if i should concentrate of backup the wallet.dat instead of the dump
 973 2014-11-13 14:29:04 <sipa> not a full wallet backup
 974 2014-11-13 14:29:11 <sipa> i want to get rid of wallet.dat
 975 2014-11-13 14:29:13 <sipa> 3 years ago
 976 2014-11-13 14:29:18 <jonasschnelli> :)
 977 2014-11-13 14:29:33 <wumpus> agreed
 978 2014-11-13 14:29:48 <jonasschnelli> is there no bit for a wallet interexchangable format?
 979 2014-11-13 14:29:51 <jonasschnelli> bit=bip
 980 2014-11-13 14:30:41 <wumpus> there just isn't much progress/focus on bitcoin core wallet, we're busy enough with the infrastucture
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 983 2014-11-13 14:32:05 <wumpus> jonasschnelli: people have tried, but even defining what a wallet is is difficult, let alone getting people to agree on it
 984 2014-11-13 14:32:08 <jonasschnelli> yes. it looks like. Looks busy nowadays (especially when i check the amount of pull requests and issues)
 985 2014-11-13 14:32:25 <wumpus> jonasschnelli: the closest we have is the keys-in-WIF format per line
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 987 2014-11-13 14:32:49 <jonasschnelli> which makes us come back to the dump format...
 988 2014-11-13 14:32:51 <wumpus> ideally the wallet would be a seperate project with separate bug tracker
 989 2014-11-13 14:32:54 <hearn> jonasschnelli: sadly not
 990 2014-11-13 14:32:58 <hearn> jonasschnelli: some users don't like HD wallets, it turns out
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 992 2014-11-13 14:33:24 <jonasschnelli> hearn: maybe users see a risk behind the "mastery".
 993 2014-11-13 14:33:31 <wumpus> hearn: what would change for the users?
 994 2014-11-13 14:33:33 <jonasschnelli> "masterkey"
 995 2014-11-13 14:33:47 <hearn> they don't like the fact that their address keeps changing
 996 2014-11-13 14:33:52 <wumpus> except for the backup experience, possibly, nothing changs for the end users
 997 2014-11-13 14:33:56 <hearn> and they dislike hiding the address from them, even more ....
 998 2014-11-13 14:34:08 <wumpus> that happens in bitcoin core anyhow, so not a problem for us
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1000 2014-11-13 14:36:06 <wumpus> as with most security/privacy problems, address reuse will need a big scandal before people realize they shouldn't do it
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1002 2014-11-13 14:37:26 <jonasschnelli> I then will finish the wallet backup functions with just backing up the wallet.dat. The rest looks to much "in-move" for me.
1003 2014-11-13 14:38:04 <sipa> wumpus: it probably needs a blockchain.info like site where you can enter a master pubkey, and it tells you your whole balance :(
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1006 2014-11-13 14:46:21 <hearn> i think it'll help once more wallets are exposing the words
1007 2014-11-13 14:46:50 <hearn> the problem is people made the mental link "my address == my account" and get confused when that mental model is broken. replacing "my address" with "my words" will probably help
1008 2014-11-13 14:47:04 <hearn> however the main wallet where this was observed to be an issue (on android) didn't implement wallet words yet
1009 2014-11-13 14:47:56 <hearn> people very much like syncing wallets with each other as well, same reasons i guess - people associate money with themselves rather than their devices.
1010 2014-11-13 14:48:56 <sipa> interesting
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1012 2014-11-13 14:51:48 <hearn> designing wallets is hard. a lot of users have very little or no understanding of how bitcoin works. but then you also have a vocal population of people who do, and feel that wallets should expose the guts to them as much as possible
1013 2014-11-13 14:51:51 <hearn> it's hard to make both camps happy
1014 2014-11-13 14:52:00 <hearn> bitcoin's future must ultimately lie with the first camp though
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1016 2014-11-13 15:00:36 <dgenr8> expose guts != expose guts by default or in main view
1017 2014-11-13 15:01:01 <sipa> it's more a problem with adopting a model that is inherently incompatible
1018 2014-11-13 15:03:00 <hearn> http://blogs.msdn.com/b/oldnewthing/archive/2003/07/28/54583.aspx
1019 2014-11-13 15:04:06 <wumpus> jonasschnelli: "I then will finish the wallet backup functions with just backing up the wallet.dat" agreed
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1021 2014-11-13 15:04:22 <hearn> over time i guess we'll see wallets specialise, there will be wallets for bitcoin experts (bitcoin-qt is already rather like this) and wallets for people who just want to send money around
1022 2014-11-13 15:04:24 <dgenr8> skill level is not fixed for a given user.  they progress.
1023 2014-11-13 15:04:32 <wumpus> yes, bitcoin-qt is pretty much dev wallet
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1025 2014-11-13 15:04:58 <jonasschnelli> wumpus: okay. i make it now configurable to switch from wallet.dat to rpc like dumps.
1026 2014-11-13 15:05:03 <hearn> yeah? so everyone who used a computer for ten years is an expert on how they work inside? nah, most users will never progress. they have better things to do than learn about how bitcoin works.
1027 2014-11-13 15:05:35 <dgenr8> the novice-advanced slider is a bad design and straw man.  no reason not to be able to "drill in"
1028 2014-11-13 15:07:11 <wumpus> dgenr8: it is realistic, though, for any kind of application there exist simple programs for casual users and advanced programs for people that specialize in it
1029 2014-11-13 15:09:01 <wumpus> dgenr8: it's not a global novice-advanced slider, but one per specific subject area
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1031 2014-11-13 15:11:28 <dgenr8> that's better, the microsoft post contemplates global
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1087 2014-11-13 16:22:58 <hearn> sipa: did you ever write a patch to do utxo indexing by script?
1088 2014-11-13 16:23:08 <hearn> i have a feeling the answer is yes but don't recall exactly
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1106 2014-11-13 16:40:20 <wumpus> hearn: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/5048
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1108 2014-11-13 16:41:13 <Luke-Jr> wumpus: thoughts on restoring bitcoin/bitcoin in #bitcoin-commits ?
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1110 2014-11-13 16:41:58 <hearn> wumpus: thanks
1111 2014-11-13 16:43:29 derbumi_ has quit (Quit: derbumi_)
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1113 2014-11-13 16:43:54 <wumpus> Luke-Jr: huh?
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1116 2014-11-13 16:44:12 <Luke-Jr> wumpus: it requires GitHub configuration
1117 2014-11-13 16:44:22 <wumpus> (I don't know about the channel #bitcoin-commits, so am also not aware of any problems there)
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1119 2014-11-13 16:44:25 <Luke-Jr> hasn't worked since CIA.vc died
1120 2014-11-13 16:44:42 <Luke-Jr> wumpus: it has commit messages for bitcoin projects
1121 2014-11-13 16:44:49 <wumpus> ok
1122 2014-11-13 16:45:16 <wumpus> what makes bitcoin/bitcoin different from other projects there?
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1124 2014-11-13 16:45:31 <Luke-Jr> wumpus: it's not there anymore :P
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1126 2014-11-13 16:45:49 <wumpus> oh, I suppose that needs some bot?
1127 2014-11-13 16:45:55 <Luke-Jr> right
1128 2014-11-13 16:46:28 <Luke-Jr> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/settings/hooks/new?service=irc
1129 2014-11-13 16:46:41 <wumpus> I'm going to lock #5265, this is going in the wrong direction
1130 2014-11-13 16:47:11 <Luke-Jr> ACK
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1133 2014-11-13 16:50:37 <Luke-Jr> wumpus: the channel is -n, so you can set Message w/o join
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1139 2014-11-13 16:53:37 <wumpus> should I set notice?
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1141 2014-11-13 16:54:12 <Luke-Jr> wumpus: prob not
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1145 2014-11-13 16:54:43 <wumpus> ok, added the hook
1146 2014-11-13 16:54:45 <Luke-Jr> thanks
1147 2014-11-13 16:55:07 <wumpus> I have not set nick, nickserv password and password, but I suppose github will use some default then
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1149 2014-11-13 16:55:26 <Luke-Jr> hopefully it has some shared bot
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1155 2014-11-13 17:00:17 <wumpus> merged something, let's see if it appears
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1158 2014-11-13 17:03:02 <wumpus> PSA: join #bitcoin-commits to be notified of commits to the bitcoin/bitcoin repository in real time
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1184 2014-11-13 17:50:18 <gavinandresen> Anybody have objections to a -regtest-only ‘setmocktime’ RPC command that sets the time returned by GetTime() ?  I’m planning on using it to generate blocks with specific timestamps, should also be useful for other testing
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1187 2014-11-13 17:53:39 <Happzz> i'll vote yes if you pay me
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1196 2014-11-13 17:56:40 <warren> gavinandresen: would time be frozen at that RPC set time?
1197 2014-11-13 17:57:02 <gavinandresen> warren: yes, until you call setmocktime again (or call setmocktime 0)
1198 2014-11-13 17:57:16 <warren> sounds good
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1208 2014-11-13 18:15:25 <jhns> when accepting connections in https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/master/src/net.cpp#L837, it seems that it can happen that a inbound connections from a node is accepted, although already an outbound connection to this node exists. Is this intentional?
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1212 2014-11-13 18:20:31 <gmaxwell> jhns: yes, well known at least. It's harmless, and not easily avoided. (Consider cases when there are multiple hosts behind the same IP due to nat; or just multiple daemons on a single machine)
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1217 2014-11-13 18:25:13 <jhns> gmaxwell: okay, thanks... didn't think about nat
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1259 2014-11-13 18:49:32 <warren> Why does state.DoS() add to the nDoS level, but nDoS itself doesn't result in disconnect?
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1265 2014-11-13 18:54:46 <wumpus> warren: because the state itself cannot (and should not) disconnect anyone
1266 2014-11-13 18:54:59 <wumpus> it's just a glorified return value
1267 2014-11-13 18:55:25 <wumpus> the caller must take care of acting on it (or not)
1268 2014-11-13 18:55:26 <warren> I mean, nothing after that actually reads the nDoS level
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1271 2014-11-13 18:56:11 <wumpus> DoS disconnects do happen
1272 2014-11-13 18:56:41 <warren> for example "ProcessBlock() : block with too little proof-of-work"
1273 2014-11-13 18:56:51 <warren> it doesn't in that case and many others
1274 2014-11-13 18:57:14 <wumpus> ok...
1275 2014-11-13 18:58:01 <warren> is it pointless to set the DoS level if you don't do anything with it?
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1284 2014-11-13 19:06:25 <warren> A better question is why ProcessMessage() checks the state and calls Misbehaving() for tx but not blocks.
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1295 2014-11-13 19:14:01 <hearn> warren: the anti-dos architecture in bitcoind needs a rethink, although the current set of rules do work in the sense that they do what they were designed to do.
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1297 2014-11-13 19:14:12 <hearn> warren: but it's rather ad hoc.
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1310 2014-11-13 19:38:05 <warren> hearn: ok, thank you
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1312 2014-11-13 19:40:56 <cfields> wumpus: ping
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1314 2014-11-13 19:41:20 <cfields> wumpus: i updated the scripterror PR to check the error status... https://github.com/theuni/bitcoin/commit/ddadf2d1ecc0d646ae83b06f275c15a5a7704573
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1316 2014-11-13 19:41:52 <cfields> wumpus: but i'm not sure if it makes sense to actually check the value, or just use it for ok/not ok, since that's what we'll be encouraging users to do
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1319 2014-11-13 19:42:31 <cfields> er.. not even that much. If verify fails, use it to find out why
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1322 2014-11-13 19:43:35 <cfields> i check the value in that commit, but I'm happy to switch it to just ok/nok if you'd prefer
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1412 2014-11-13 21:42:19 <BlueMatt> cfields: hmmmm....when doing ./configure --disable-ccache CXX=distcc CC=distcc the resulting Makefile uses ccache without distcc :(
1413 2014-11-13 21:42:48 <cfields> hmm
1414 2014-11-13 21:42:50 <BlueMatt> (it seems the thing that searches for gcc ignores the CC/CXX setting)
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1418 2014-11-13 21:44:05 <BlueMatt> ehh, wait, configure failed....wtf?
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1420 2014-11-13 21:45:22 <cfields> BlueMatt: seems to be working as-intended here...
1421 2014-11-13 21:45:24 <cfields> ./configure --disable-ccache CXX=clang++
1422 2014-11-13 21:45:30 <cfields> (i don't have distcc handy)
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1428 2014-11-13 21:47:54 <cfields> BlueMatt: don't you need something like CXX="distcc g++" ?
1429 2014-11-13 21:48:14 <BlueMatt> cfields: not sure...currently configure is failing for no reason :(
1430 2014-11-13 21:48:22 <BlueMatt> yea...wtf configure: error: No working boost sleep implementation found.
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1432 2014-11-13 21:48:39 <BlueMatt> Ive had that issue before
1433 2014-11-13 21:48:56 <BlueMatt> ahh, actually, using distcc fails with that issue
1434 2014-11-13 21:48:57 <cfields> yea, that's a trap that lots of stuff gets caught in
1435 2014-11-13 21:49:43 <BlueMatt> can we remove the use of boost::sleep?
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1438 2014-11-13 21:50:58 <cfields> BlueMatt: can you paste your config.log ?
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1441 2014-11-13 21:54:16 <cfields> BlueMatt: actually, (i know nothing of distcc) can it actually link a file? or only be used in -c mode?
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1443 2014-11-13 21:55:57 <BlueMatt> sorry, yea, turns out that test is the one that blows up if you try to compile in C mode instead of C++
1444 2014-11-13 21:56:17 <BlueMatt> anyway, yea, distcc is smart enough to push jobs remotely and keep jobs locally if it cant do it
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1450 2014-11-13 21:58:22 <cfields> BlueMatt: so all is good?
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1452 2014-11-13 21:59:11 <BlueMatt> appears so
1453 2014-11-13 21:59:16 <BlueMatt> sorry to bug :)
1454 2014-11-13 21:59:37 <helo> i just started having issues building... updated from automake 1.9 to 1.11 to fix
1455 2014-11-13 21:59:48 <helo> (btw)
1456 2014-11-13 22:00:06 <cfields> BlueMatt: np, good to know
1457 2014-11-13 22:00:15 <cfields> helo: what problems?
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1460 2014-11-13 22:02:39 <helo> well, it started after updating to head a few days ago. was getting "/bin/bash: /obj is a directory" because MKDIR_P (among others) was evaluating as empty
1461 2014-11-13 22:03:24 <helo> hadn't made any system changes on my end that i can point a finger at, but that doesn't mean it isn't my fault :)
1462 2014-11-13 22:04:12 <cfields> ah, no, that was a change on our end
1463 2014-11-13 22:04:23 <cfields> any chance you have a list of those that were missing?
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1468 2014-11-13 22:06:15 <helo> the mkdir error was stopping the build, so i didn't see anything else. but it was trying to access /obj, so i assume builddir was also empty
1469 2014-11-13 22:07:30 <cfields> ok, thanks. i'll try with an older automake and revert those changes that break it
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1534 2014-11-13 23:35:53 <justanotheruser> anyone have a bitcoind.pro they'd like to share?
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1536 2014-11-13 23:37:45 <cfields> helo: hmm, you're sure it worked before you upgraded?
1537 2014-11-13 23:37:53 <cfields> justanotheruser: iirc there's one in contrib/
1538 2014-11-13 23:38:14 <justanotheruser> cfields: bitcoin-qt.pro
1539 2014-11-13 23:39:10 <cfields> justanotheruser: i suppose i don't understand what you're looking for. not sure why you'd use a .pro for bitcoind
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1542 2014-11-13 23:39:52 <justanotheruser> cfields: to compile correctly within qtcreator
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1544 2014-11-13 23:40:03 <kanzure> i am not sure anyone is regularly compiling in qtcreator
1545 2014-11-13 23:40:04 <sipa> why would you compile bitcoind with qt-creator?
1546 2014-11-13 23:40:30 <justanotheruser> sipa: I thought it would be convenient...
1547 2014-11-13 23:40:35 <phantomcircuit> ha
1548 2014-11-13 23:40:38 <sipa> lol
1549 2014-11-13 23:40:41 <cfields> justanotheruser: if you insist on it, you can install the autotools plugin and add the buildsteps for configure/make
1550 2014-11-13 23:40:42 <kanzure> i would assume that most of the qt-related gui development has been blind, just by knowledge of available qt features.
1551 2014-11-13 23:40:43 <justanotheruser> 4 votes that I'm dumb
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1553 2014-11-13 23:40:58 <sipa> justanotheruser: ./autogen.sh && ./configure && make
1554 2014-11-13 23:41:30 <justanotheruser> If it isn't clear, I want to make changes then compile, not just compile and have it.
1555 2014-11-13 23:41:40 <kanzure> although a .pro file might be useful, as long as qtcreator doesn't butcher anything or generate poorly written files, or hard to diff files...
1556 2014-11-13 23:42:19 <justanotheruser> sipa: is there some reason I shouldn't use creator though?
1557 2014-11-13 23:42:30 <sipa> justanotheruser: it's not a Qt project?
1558 2014-11-13 23:43:06 <sipa> justanotheruser: i may be biased as i haven't ever even opened qt creator
1559 2014-11-13 23:43:20 <kanzure> does qt-creator require the project's build toolchain to be based on qmake?
1560 2014-11-13 23:43:29 <justanotheruser> kanzure: no
1561 2014-11-13 23:43:32 <kanzure> right.. okay.
1562 2014-11-13 23:43:41 <justanotheruser> sipa: what do you use?
1563 2014-11-13 23:43:58 <kanzure> probably a text editor like anyone else does?
1564 2014-11-13 23:43:58 <sipa> a shell and an editor
1565 2014-11-13 23:44:16 <kanzure> justanotheruser: what are you trying to do overall, here?
1566 2014-11-13 23:44:52 <justanotheruser> kanzure: set up an environment where I can easily make changes to bitcoind (with all the benefits of an IDE) and test them quickly
1567 2014-11-13 23:45:19 <kanzure> so this is not gui-related?
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1569 2014-11-13 23:45:27 <justanotheruser> kanzure: no
1570 2014-11-13 23:45:38 <sipa> i've used an IDE for C/C++ development before, but imho it has little advantages
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1573 2014-11-13 23:46:14 <justanotheruser> sipa: don't you like knowing all your typos and stuff immediately after you've typed them?
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1575 2014-11-13 23:46:35 <kanzure> don't make typos. also, after a while you just acquire a sense for typos. they keep you up at night.
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1577 2014-11-13 23:47:06 <justanotheruser> "don't make typos" - exhaled heavily out of my nostrils
1578 2014-11-13 23:47:17 <sipa> justanotheruser: sure, it has advantages
1579 2014-11-13 23:47:43 <sipa> but at least i have learned to work confortably with just a text editor, and i don't seem to be alone
1580 2014-11-13 23:47:55 <sipa> i use an IDE for java, though it has been a few years since i did java
1581 2014-11-13 23:47:58 <gmaxwell> justanotheruser: sometimes those advantages are disadvantages, e.g. tools encouraging you to convert syntatically invalid mistakes into valid ones that compile but cause doom.
1582 2014-11-13 23:48:32 <phantomcircuit> dooooom
1583 2014-11-13 23:48:36 <justanotheruser> this is true...
1584 2014-11-13 23:48:52 <kanzure> justanotheruser: do you regularly use some text editor already?
1585 2014-11-13 23:49:09 <justanotheruser> kanzure: yeah, vim
1586 2014-11-13 23:49:30 <justanotheruser> I just figured creator would make C++ development easier
1587 2014-11-13 23:49:30 cjmedia has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
1588 2014-11-13 23:49:36 <Luke-Jr> justanotheruser: Kate is nice
1589 2014-11-13 23:49:47 <sipa> use Eclipse CDT!
1590 2014-11-13 23:50:06 <sipa> (sorry, just trying to join the flamewar)
1591 2014-11-13 23:50:15 <Luke-Jr> use both at once
1592 2014-11-13 23:50:30 <kanzure> that's what spit keyboards were made for
1593 2014-11-13 23:50:32 <justanotheruser> sipa: so its not the IDE that you don't like, its creator :P
1594 2014-11-13 23:50:44 <kanzure> s/spit/split
1595 2014-11-13 23:50:51 mpmcsweeney has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
1596 2014-11-13 23:50:53 Application has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
1597 2014-11-13 23:50:53 <justanotheruser> Luke-Jr: use vim and kate at the same time? o_O
1598 2014-11-13 23:50:57 <sipa> justanotheruser: no, i just don't know creator
1599 2014-11-13 23:51:07 <Luke-Jr> justanotheruser: well, that's actually possible
1600 2014-11-13 23:51:17 <sipa> but being able to develop over ssh is actually useful sometime :0
1601 2014-11-13 23:51:18 <justanotheruser> Luke-Jr: I know, I'm wondering why you would want to though
1602 2014-11-13 23:51:36 <kanzure> i keep thinking of https://glade.gnome.org/ instead of http://qt-project.org/wiki/Category:Tools::QtCreator
1603 2014-11-13 23:51:40 <Luke-Jr> justanotheruser: some people prefer vim's usage flow
1604 2014-11-13 23:51:51 <Luke-Jr> kanzure: ew
1605 2014-11-13 23:51:54 <kanzure> haha
1606 2014-11-13 23:52:20 <justanotheruser> kanzure: that doesn't have a k in front of it
1607 2014-11-13 23:52:35 <Luke-Jr> justanotheruser: kanzure does so
1608 2014-11-13 23:52:45 <justanotheruser> is kanzure a kde project?
1609 2014-11-13 23:52:55 <kanzure> i sure hope not
1610 2014-11-13 23:53:36 moa has joined
1611 2014-11-13 23:53:51 <justanotheruser> ok, I'll try to work with vim. Do you recommend any extensions for development? I've used IDEs my whole life (except for C) and I've hardly used C++.
1612 2014-11-13 23:54:18 <cfields> justanotheruser: really, the autotools plugin for qtcreator isn't bad if you're just used to working that way
1613 2014-11-13 23:54:21 <kanzure> meh, you could pick up a syntax linter in vim
1614 2014-11-13 23:54:21 bbbrian has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
1615 2014-11-13 23:54:23 * sipa uses mcedit   *ducks*
1616 2014-11-13 23:54:38 <cfields> but it doesn't do you any good as far as function prototypes, etc
1617 2014-11-13 23:54:42 <justanotheruser> "MCEdit, a Minecraft World Editor"
1618 2014-11-13 23:54:47 <sipa> lol
1619 2014-11-13 23:54:49 <berndj> justanotheruser: in vim, just type :make
1620 2014-11-13 23:54:54 <sipa> no, Midnight Commander's builtin editor
1621 2014-11-13 23:54:55 <berndj> bingo, that's your IDE
1622 2014-11-13 23:54:55 devrandom has joined
1623 2014-11-13 23:55:15 <justanotheruser> berndj: that has one component of an IDE :P
1624 2014-11-13 23:55:19 imfaust has joined
1625 2014-11-13 23:55:31 Application has joined
1626 2014-11-13 23:55:35 <kanzure> justanotheruser: do you use tmux/screen? that often helps if you're not interested in using vim file buffers.
1627 2014-11-13 23:57:16 <justanotheruser> kanzure: terminator and vim both can split terminals
1628 2014-11-13 23:57:35 cjmedia has joined
1629 2014-11-13 23:57:51 <justanotheruser> well vim can open a new file and split at least