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189 2014-11-16 04:42:15 <truky> Hi
190 2014-11-16 04:43:45 <truky> i need help for understand howto i can limit tranfer count of block in my nex altcoin
191 2014-11-16 04:45:12 <justanotheruser> truky: ##altcoin-dev
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341 2014-11-16 10:15:20 <elichai2> hey
342 2014-11-16 10:15:31 <elichai2> in what tech does the nodes talk to each other?
343 2014-11-16 10:15:56 <elichai2> (i mean in RPC and JSON? or in something else?)
344 2014-11-16 10:17:11 <Krellan> The nodes talk to each other in their own cute little peer-to-peer protocol
345 2014-11-16 10:17:39 <Krellan> I finally got around to adding an option -whiteconnections=<n>
346 2014-11-16 10:17:58 <Krellan> This gives whitelisted peers the ability to exceed the -maxconnections limit
347 2014-11-16 10:18:10 <elichai2> Krellan, can you send me a link to how it's operating? i want to pull myself the mempool from a specific node
348 2014-11-16 10:18:19 <elichai2> (without a client of my own)
349 2014-11-16 10:18:42 <Krellan> Hmm, I'm not sure where the best writeup of the protocol is
350 2014-11-16 10:18:46 <Krellan> Best bet is to check the source yourself
351 2014-11-16 10:19:31 <elichai2> i'm not very good at C++ :\
352 2014-11-16 10:19:38 <elichai2> i'm writing my code in python
353 2014-11-16 10:22:20 <Krellan> Nice, I'm not good at Python
354 2014-11-16 10:23:55 <Krellan> I don't know if there's any clear documentation of how the protocol works, other than the code itself
355 2014-11-16 10:24:03 <elichai2> here they write a lot of theoretical things about how it's works but it's no use for me :\ https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Network
356 2014-11-16 10:25:06 <elichai2> and here is the specific thing about the mempool https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Protocol_specification#mempool
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358 2014-11-16 10:25:13 <elichai2> but still nothing concrete
359 2014-11-16 10:25:31 <elichai2> maybe i'll wait until the US and Canada will wake up and then there will be here some devs :)
360 2014-11-16 10:37:22 <Krellan> Aye, me too
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375 2014-11-16 11:15:50 <truky> hi, i can help for modify code for force free to all transaction
376 2014-11-16 11:16:12 <truky> force fee
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399 2014-11-16 11:55:42 <Krellan> Yay, it works!
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404 2014-11-16 11:58:29 <Krellan> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/5288
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501 2014-11-16 15:08:26 bitbit has joined
502 2014-11-16 15:08:35 <bitbit> Hi. I'm trying to figure out what is unique about the Blockchain. The concept of decentralized networks is not a new one, what has changed with Bitcoin and the Blockchain that makes it unique? every place I try to research, like documentries about Bitcoin, and videos about Ethereum, they always stop short of explaining the technical details. I'm a wevdev programmer and can grasp these concepts, but don't know where to start
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504 2014-11-16 15:10:09 <sipa_> bitbit: the problem that the blockchain essentially solves is decentralized consensus
505 2014-11-16 15:10:40 <sipa_> the ability to agree on a single state with random participants in a network without trusted party
506 2014-11-16 15:11:01 <sipa_> which was previously thought to be impossible
507 2014-11-16 15:11:18 <bitbit> how is it achived techically
508 2014-11-16 15:11:21 <bitbit> ?*
509 2014-11-16 15:11:31 <sipa_> and technically, it is impossible: bitcoin does not actually solve it; it only solves it after some time, only probabilistically, and only under certain assumptions
510 2014-11-16 15:11:45 <sipa_> the blockchain is a version of history that people may or may not agree on
511 2014-11-16 15:12:12 <sipa_> nodes add episodes of history to it, and by making this hard, they essentially vote on accepting that version by extending it
512 2014-11-16 15:12:31 <sipa_> sometimes two nodes disagree about what the next episode (=block) is, but this is temporary
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514 2014-11-16 15:12:47 <sipa_> the one that gets extended first later on is retroactively accepted as history
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516 2014-11-16 15:19:37 <dgenr8> elichai2: the p2p protocol has a "mempool" command to do that.  you can send it from any local language of course.
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521 2014-11-16 15:24:02 <nickler> What would you estimate is the ratio of successful malleability attacks on OP_CHECKMULTISIG (OP_0 -> OP_1, currently standard) given that the attacker has a polite number of connections (125 to 250) to well connected peers?
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523 2014-11-16 15:27:09 <nickler> In my experiment not a single one of around 100 malleated transactions successfully landed in a block. I am just wondering if this is expected.
524 2014-11-16 15:38:26 <dgenr8> nickler: not multisig, but there were quite a lot of these confirmed recently http://respends.thinlink.com/tx/b15f3f23be26349e4a4030f3fdc9c4547d1f728440a0f5a5fc271c25cfa55afb
525 2014-11-16 15:38:41 weilu has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
526 2014-11-16 15:39:50 <bitbit> sipa_: thanks!
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531 2014-11-16 15:47:21 <nickler> dgenr8: thanks, interesting. Is this "malleability by new signature"?
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536 2014-11-16 15:52:23 <chmod755> gavinandresen, http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2mgi7w/well_known_ponzi_scheme_become_silver_member_on/cm42sxx?context=10000
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544 2014-11-16 16:01:50 <jhns> this may be a stupid question, but shouldn't the comparision in https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/master/src/main.cpp#L4354 use ">", not "<"?
545 2014-11-16 16:04:33 <jhns> no, sorry
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553 2014-11-16 16:13:20 <jhns> I'm not sure if I'm totally stupid right now, but "nPingUsecStart + PING_INTERVAL * 1000000" is less than GetTimeMicros() directly after the last pong has been received?
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555 2014-11-16 16:15:47 <jhns> yeah, stupid thinking error of mine. sorry
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592 2014-11-16 17:06:32 <elichai2> my question again :)
593 2014-11-16 17:06:42 <elichai2> in what protocol does the bitcoin nodes talking?
594 2014-11-16 17:07:00 <elichai2> (RPC with JSON? or HTTP? or something else? :) )
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596 2014-11-16 17:07:28 <dhill> elichai2: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Protocol_specification
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602 2014-11-16 17:08:25 <elichai2> dhill, read that already
603 2014-11-16 17:08:36 <elichai2> it's only theoretically
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605 2014-11-16 17:09:20 <Apocalyptic> no, it's very explicit and practical
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607 2014-11-16 17:10:55 <elichai2> Apocalyptic, I'm trying to talk with a node via python. it's just tells me how the protocol is working. not how to use it.(it's even tcp or udp? the answer is json?)
608 2014-11-16 17:12:14 <Apocalyptic> you wouldn't ask about json if you have read that page
609 2014-11-16 17:12:51 <elichai2> i haven't read all of it, i have a look on it
610 2014-11-16 17:13:00 <elichai2> maybe i'll spare some time and read all of it
611 2014-11-16 17:13:33 <dhill> elichai2: tcp
612 2014-11-16 17:14:00 <Apocalyptic> as for TCP/UDP it's also stated
613 2014-11-16 17:14:07 <Apocalyptic> "The ping message is sent primarily to confirm that the TCP/IP connection is still valid. An error in transmission is presumed to be a closed connection and the address is removed as a current peer."
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616 2014-11-16 17:14:32 <Apocalyptic> so before throwing up claims like " it's just tells me how the protocol is working. not how to use it", read the damn thing
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618 2014-11-16 17:14:57 <elichai2> LOL, ok sorry
619 2014-11-16 17:16:15 <sipa_> there are plenty of python implementations of the p2p protocol
620 2014-11-16 17:16:38 <sipa_> sounds silly to reimplememt the whole thing
621 2014-11-16 17:17:05 <Apocalyptic> unless it's for educational purposes
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623 2014-11-16 17:20:01 <elichai2> sipa_, nothing that can communicate directly with other nodes
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627 2014-11-16 17:20:36 <elichai2> not Peter Todd's implementation and not icook's
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683 2014-11-16 18:37:14 * Luke-Jr kicks Travis.. github.com: Temporary failure in name resolution
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709 2014-11-16 19:26:49 <Krellan> jhns: Bitcoin ping is different than TCP/IP ping, they're at totally different layers of the IP stack
710 2014-11-16 19:27:02 <Krellan> Bitcoin ping is also regularly sent as a keepalive
711 2014-11-16 19:27:25 <Krellan> I looked at that code and see nothing wrong with it, it's seeing if it has been long enough duration since last, to send again
712 2014-11-16 19:27:40 <Krellan> Only thing I'd do differently is not call GetTimeMicros() twice in a row, call it once then save and reuse result.
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728 2014-11-16 20:09:20 <jtimon_> can we merge #4793 already, it has been there for long after replacing #4423, is there anything I can do to make it move ahead? should I squash the last commit already? should I squash them all? I know most people don't care about this but I do
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730 2014-11-16 20:10:26 <jtimon_> also, if we merge it before #5171 (also pretty old code) I can extend that one instead of having to create another PR later...
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733 2014-11-16 20:17:59 <jtimon_> jaromil I know you care about encapsulating the proof of work, can you review #4793 and #5171, please?
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755 2014-11-16 20:54:39 <BlueMatt> sipa_: re: (whatever bug it was that was complaining about 0-bytes in blk****.dat): we should actually just put in 0-bytes to make blocks start on sector boundaries
756 2014-11-16 20:55:12 <sipa_> why?
757 2014-11-16 20:55:17 <BlueMatt> not that it matters, but instead of fixing it to have no 0-bytes, might as well
758 2014-11-16 20:55:24 cbrons has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
759 2014-11-16 20:55:29 <BlueMatt> save 1 sector-read half the time...
760 2014-11-16 20:55:35 <BlueMatt> again, barely matters, but...why not
761 2014-11-16 20:56:35 <sipa_> heh, you could even do it adaptively... if the size of the block on disk is $SECTORSIZE*Y+X, allow inserting up to $SECTORSIZE-X 0 bytes
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763 2014-11-16 20:57:22 <BlueMatt> heh, one could
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786 2014-11-16 21:33:17 <jhns> Krellan: yes, I know. I was just confused at the calculation
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792 2014-11-16 21:37:55 <jhns> Krellan: I just thought wrong ;)
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795 2014-11-16 21:43:39 <Krellan> jhns: no problem
796 2014-11-16 21:44:16 <jhns> thanks for looking at it though :)
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808 2014-11-16 22:00:04 <Krellan> OK, I tested it and it's running well, added warning/debugging messages also.
809 2014-11-16 22:00:06 <Krellan> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/5288
810 2014-11-16 22:00:25 <Krellan> This adds -whiteconnections=<n> which lets you exceed -maxconnections but only for whitelisted peers.
811 2014-11-16 22:00:55 <sipa_> Krellan: will review
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814 2014-11-16 22:04:13 <Krellan> sipa_: Nice, thanks!
815 2014-11-16 22:04:15 <Krellan> Appreciate that.
816 2014-11-16 22:05:04 <Krellan> It's useful for my p2pool node, then you don't get the failure to connect if your bitcoind has been up for a long time and all of its slots are already taken.
817 2014-11-16 22:05:37 <gmaxwell> Krellan: I'd rather just reserve some of the max connections slots for whitelisted peers. Freely exceeding maxconnections will cause memory corruption.
818 2014-11-16 22:05:47 <gmaxwell> (e.g. if it makes you use more than the FD limit)
819 2014-11-16 22:05:51 <sipa_> gmaxwell: read the patch
820 2014-11-16 22:06:27 <gmaxwell> ah okay
821 2014-11-16 22:07:10 <gmaxwell> sipa_: you're wearing a cape.
822 2014-11-16 22:07:21 <sipa_> ...?
823 2014-11-16 22:07:27 <gmaxwell> sipa_
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825 2014-11-16 22:07:31 <Krellan> gmaxwell: Thanks, I thought of that as well from our earlier talk about it
826 2014-11-16 22:07:57 <Krellan> I silently boost maxconnections to the greater of (maxconnections, whiteconnections)
827 2014-11-16 22:08:12 <gmaxwell> perhaps this should default to having a few whiteconnections over the max?
828 2014-11-16 22:08:14 <Krellan> and it's still subject to all the same system FD counts
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830 2014-11-16 22:08:42 <Krellan> The test for whitelist is done at connection time. Essentially there's a smaller maxconnections that non-whitelisted peers are subjected to, it's smaller than the "real" maxconnections.
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832 2014-11-16 22:09:53 <gmaxwell> hm. So this becomes ineffectie when you run into the limit, which might be unwelcome.
833 2014-11-16 22:10:23 <gmaxwell> E.g. if you set maxconnections to 2048 you'll end up with no whitelist reserved connections... at least you warn though.
834 2014-11-16 22:10:33 <Krellan> And if you request something goofy like 100000 connections, you're still clamped to the system max. On my linux it's 873.
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838 2014-11-16 22:11:36 <Krellan> True. Part of it is that I didn't want to change any existing semantics of -maxconnections because there's a lot of users using it already.
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842 2014-11-16 22:13:42 <Krellan> Maybe -whiteconnections parameter should work subtractive from -maxconnections, instead of establishing a new total limit?
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844 2014-11-16 22:13:59 <gmaxwell> Krellan: Perhaps it would be less confusing though if setting your white too high made you lose all your inbound sockets.
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848 2014-11-16 22:14:06 <Krellan> so -maxconnections=100 -whiteconnections=20 --> outside world gets 80 connection slots, but overall there's a limit of 100 connection slots
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850 2014-11-16 22:14:20 <gmaxwell> Yea, I think the fd limit should be reserved in this order:  outbound (limited to 8 in any case), white, then non-white inbound.
851 2014-11-16 22:15:03 <gmaxwell> hm. yea, and -whiteconnections is "reserve this many inbound connections for whitelisted peers".
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853 2014-11-16 22:15:12 <Krellan> OK, good point!
854 2014-11-16 22:15:18 <Krellan> That would improve semantics somewhat.
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856 2014-11-16 22:15:41 <Krellan> Will do that.
857 2014-11-16 22:15:50 <gmaxwell> We could also make that default to, say, 8 and increase the default maxconnections by 8... so people shouldn't need to fuss with that knob to benefit from it.
858 2014-11-16 22:16:25 <Krellan> Also, I've been curious, what is the magic of the number 8 for outbound connections? It's hardcoded everywhere, seemingly.
859 2014-11-16 22:17:03 <gmaxwell> or maybe 4.  I guess you can't avoid slightly breaking some people who've set maxconnections very low.
860 2014-11-16 22:17:14 <Krellan> If we make default to reserve 8 connections for whitelisted, should maxconnections default be also raised to 133, or should it stay 125? Anything significant about the number 125?
861 2014-11-16 22:17:53 <Krellan> I set my maxconnections pretty tight, my DSL was running with -maxconnections=12 for a while (only 4 allowed incoming)
862 2014-11-16 22:18:12 <gmaxwell> Krellan: it's not really magic, it has reasonable good properties without being an enormous number.   We shouldn't increase the connection count for the default configuration for most users. (e.g. ones without whitelisted peers)... simply to avoid using more resources.
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865 2014-11-16 22:19:29 <Krellan> Aye. that's why I default to not reserving any extra at all.
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867 2014-11-16 22:19:59 <gmaxwell> I don't mind increasing it some for those which are actually using whitelisting, since they're in a non-standard configuration... and we've reduced resource usage per connection a lot in the last couple years.
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872 2014-11-16 22:22:46 <Krellan> Makes sense.  So if whitelisted connections are allowed 8 extra, for example, then maxconnections would silently default to 133 and not 125 (but still be capped at 125 for non-whitelisted).
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877 2014-11-16 22:24:43 <gmaxwell> yea. e.g. so that would be -whiteconnections=8  ("8 connections reserved for whitelisted peers") and -maxconnections=133 (which is effectively 125 because of the reserve).  And whitelisted is first capped at fd_limit-outbound.. so if you set whitelisted to 99999 you just get 8 out, limit-8 white, and no non-white inbound.
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880 2014-11-16 22:25:51 <Krellan> Makes sense to me. Will go and do that.
881 2014-11-16 22:25:56 <Krellan> Thanks for review!
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884 2014-11-16 22:27:35 <BlueMatt> sipa: also, aligning blocks to sector starts instead of randomly makes block-level deduplication work
885 2014-11-16 22:27:37 akstunt600 has joined
886 2014-11-16 22:27:51 * BlueMatt knew there was a better reason for doing that that he was thinking of last night
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891 2014-11-16 22:32:24 <gmaxwell> BlueMatt: what actual level of alignment is needed for that? Wasting 4k per block adds 1.5GB to the block files in the worst case, which seems pretty bad.
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893 2014-11-16 22:32:43 <BlueMatt> nfc, but i figure alignment is needed
894 2014-11-16 22:33:00 <gmaxwell> we do get alignment from the new block files.
895 2014-11-16 22:33:24 <BlueMatt> true, but that is pretty rare (how many blocks do we shove in each file?)
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897 2014-11-16 22:34:21 <gmaxwell> yea, it's rare though it would be completely effective if we had some process to repack old block files at startup, since they'd all end up file wise identical.
898 2014-11-16 22:34:36 <BlueMatt> yup
899 2014-11-16 22:35:11 <BlueMatt> problem is, headers-first is gonna make such dedup much more difficult because, previously, where blocks were almost always packed (ie during ibd), now they never are
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901 2014-11-16 22:35:16 <gmaxwell> e.g. if at startup we look for the oldest block file with orpahns which is at least two blockfiles back and repack it and the block before it...
902 2014-11-16 22:35:29 <gmaxwell> ah right, reordering too.
903 2014-11-16 22:35:35 <BlueMatt> we should do that, if only it werent hard with -txindex, no?
904 2014-11-16 22:36:17 <BlueMatt> I mean, you can update the -txindex too, but if you only have to touch the mapBlockIndex entries, its not too bad
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909 2014-11-16 22:38:50 <gmaxwell> Irritating. yea, txindex should use mapBlockIndex to get the positions.
910 2014-11-16 22:39:25 <BlueMatt> yea, block_start+block_offset is easy enough...
911 2014-11-16 22:39:40 <gmaxwell> e.g. it should be a blockindex and a offset in the block. Then look up the block position using mapBlockIndex. I don't think this would have a measurable performance impact since the blockmap is already in memory.
912 2014-11-16 22:39:55 <BlueMatt> jinx
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914 2014-11-16 22:40:29 <gmaxwell> then we could repack the block files so that they were eventually the same on all hosts and free of orphans.
915 2014-11-16 22:40:40 <BlueMatt> yupyup
916 2014-11-16 22:41:15 <BlueMatt> we could force txindex recalculate on 0.10 load....
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918 2014-11-16 22:41:41 <gmaxwell> well there are perhaps other reasons to do that. (leveldb bloom filter format changing)
919 2014-11-16 22:42:04 <BlueMatt> then offline/init-option block compress could come later, or even in python script
920 2014-11-16 22:42:10 <BlueMatt> hmm, indeed
921 2014-11-16 22:42:23 <gmaxwell> right now there is a presumably-big performance hit from upgrading to 0.10 which probably takes fairly long time to self correct.
922 2014-11-16 22:42:47 <gmaxwell> on the chainstate we'd reasoned that it would correct pretty fast, but that reasoning probably is less true for txindex.
923 2014-11-16 22:43:15 <gmaxwell> we have some other needs to reindex things though. E.g. corrupted version information in utxos.
924 2014-11-16 22:43:18 <BlueMatt> well, good opportunity to slightly tweak the on-disk format then
925 2014-11-16 22:44:17 <BlueMatt> huh? we have corrupted version information in utxos?
926 2014-11-16 22:44:40 <gmaxwell> yea, the seralizer for versions doesn't correctly handle negative version numbers.
927 2014-11-16 22:44:55 <BlueMatt> ahh, I do recall seing code working around that
928 2014-11-16 22:45:07 <gmaxwell> there is explicit code in the start up sanity check to work around that (basically be letting the utxo database be wrong)
929 2014-11-16 22:45:12 <gmaxwell> s/be/by/
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941 2014-11-16 22:57:33 <maraoz> I read Mike Hearn wrote the original wiki article on micropayment channels. Did he also create the concept?
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949 2014-11-16 23:02:36 <livegnik> Hi everyone. Would it be a proper question in this channel for me to ask some advice on where to find senior devs, familiar with bitcoind / C++ (& SQL, javascript, node.js, DHT, P2P) who'd like to work on an infrastructure-project?
950 2014-11-16 23:03:48 <yolandiVisser> livegnik: #bitcoin-otc would probably be better
951 2014-11-16 23:04:09 <livegnik> yolandiVisser: Much appreciated! Thanks :)
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