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  83 2014-12-08 02:45:01 <ericwooley> Can anyone tell me what the size property is, that is returned from getBlock, I am having a hard time finding it in any guide/api reference, other then the fact that it exists
  84 2014-12-08 02:45:11 <ericwooley> is it the number of tx in the block?
  85 2014-12-08 02:46:00 <ericwooley> *I'm pretty new to developing using bitcoin, sorry if it's a stupid question*
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 164 2014-12-08 05:07:57 <rusty> test/test_bitcoin saying "replication requires locking support" on make check.  Is this anything to do with me configuring with --with-incompatible-bdb ?
 165 2014-12-08 05:08:51 <phantomcircuit> rusty, can you post the full output?
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 167 2014-12-08 05:10:36 <rusty> phantomcircuit: http://pastebin.com/9xuE8nmd
 168 2014-12-08 05:10:46 <rusty> phantomcircuit: not very enlightening, at least for me.
 169 2014-12-08 05:10:59 <phantomcircuit> (battery is about to die i might not respond)
 170 2014-12-08 05:12:26 <rusty> phantomcircuit: guessing this is a libdb error message, actually.
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 316 2014-12-08 08:47:53 <wumpus> rusty: haven't seen that before; what version of bdb are you using?
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 318 2014-12-08 08:48:22 <wumpus> in any case if you don't need the wallet at all it is better to do --disable-wallet than --with-incompatible-bdb
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 321 2014-12-08 08:49:13 <wumpus> instead of a version problem it could also be that it is performing the test in a strange filesystem that doesn't support locking
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 343 2014-12-08 09:23:04 <rusty> wumpus: found it: was using the libdb 5.3 headers, and linking against libdb 4.8...
 344 2014-12-08 09:24:06 <rusty> What's the preferred method for sending a couple of (related) code cleanup patches?  Pull req. via github?
 345 2014-12-08 09:24:42 <wumpus> yes pr it
 346 2014-12-08 09:25:57 <wumpus> if you really prefer you can also send patches per mail but prs make sure that it doesn't get lost and review can take place in a single place
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 351 2014-12-08 09:33:55 <wumpus> it looks like qt has no way to say "don't use sslv3", all you can do is force it to use a certain protocol, say tlsv1
 352 2014-12-08 09:34:27 <gmaxwell> I couldn't make sense of it. It seemed obnoxious.
 353 2014-12-08 09:35:00 <gmaxwell> might just be possible to check after it connected but before making the request and terminate it if it's SSLv3.
 354 2014-12-08 09:36:44 <wumpus> the idea would be to override NetworkAccessManager::createRequest and force the SSL protocol to QSsl::TlsV1
 355 2014-12-08 09:37:04 <gmaxwell> thats kind of obnoxious.
 356 2014-12-08 09:37:25 <wumpus> yes
 357 2014-12-08 09:37:52 damethos has joined
 358 2014-12-08 09:37:57 <gmaxwell> (I mean, you'd not be able to connect to a server which had prudently restricted itself to TLSv1.2, which right now you could reasonably do... and might want to do in the future if more issues are discovered.
 359 2014-12-08 09:37:58 <wumpus> and non-future-proof
 360 2014-12-08 09:38:01 <gmaxwell> )
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 362 2014-12-08 09:38:31 <wumpus> I suppose TLSv1.2 is still TLSv1
 363 2014-12-08 09:39:22 <wumpus> from qt's point of view it's not more specific than the major version, it's either SSLv2, SSLv3 or TLSv1
 364 2014-12-08 09:39:51 <wumpus> so I *think* forcing TLSv1 and connecting to a TLSv1.2-only server will work
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 367 2014-12-08 09:44:36 <wumpus> but that's kind of easy to test
 368 2014-12-08 09:46:14 <wumpus> SSLProtocol -ALL +TLSv1.2 on the webserver, then server a payment request from it
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 372 2014-12-08 09:56:43 <rusty> wumpus: thanks..
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 377 2014-12-08 10:05:34 <wumpus> oh shit, for qt5 they did subdivide TLSv1.x into specific sub versions
 378 2014-12-08 10:06:53 <wumpus> why didn't they just make it a bit field...
 379 2014-12-08 10:07:18 <wumpus> but no, we have an enumeration value QtSSL::SecureProtocols that invokes some mystery meat
 380 2014-12-08 10:07:59 <wumpus> yesterday's secure is not today's secure
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 386 2014-12-08 10:14:58 <wumpus> all the openssl handling is internal code, and there's no way to inject SSL_OP_NO_SSLv3 into it
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 388 2014-12-08 10:16:49 <wumpus> in any case the gitian builds are protected as their openssl is built with no sslv2 and sslv3, I'll just leave it at that
 389 2014-12-08 10:17:59 <wumpus> going to file an issue with qt, but I suspect by the time it makes it into the default qt distributions, ssl will be a forgotten thing of the past
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 408 2014-12-08 10:26:15 <gmaxwell> wumpus: is there a way to check what it negoiated after its up?
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 411 2014-12-08 10:32:32 <wumpus> there is a feedback from openssl to qt yes
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 414 2014-12-08 10:36:26 <michagogo> How come Qt does the fetching?
 415 2014-12-08 10:37:14 <wumpus> because we tell it to?
 416 2014-12-08 10:38:58 <wumpus> in theory, that avoids a direct dependency from the GUI code on OpenSSL, as Qt could (in theory) use another SSL library
 417 2014-12-08 10:39:36 <wumpus> (and in that case also avoid an indirect one)
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 420 2014-12-08 10:42:34 <wumpus> in practice the paymentserver code already does some direct calls into OpenSSL for x509 handling
 421 2014-12-08 10:42:59 <michagogo> Ah, I see
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 423 2014-12-08 10:43:33 <wumpus> so it could in principle bypass Qt completely, and instead of have everything integrated into the event loop, do the openssl calls in a separate thread
 424 2014-12-08 10:43:43 <michagogo> I would think that it would be easier to just pull it ourselves, but I see what you mean
 425 2014-12-08 10:44:34 <wumpus> well, feel free to implement that if you think that's easier :)
 426 2014-12-08 10:45:37 won9 has joined
 427 2014-12-08 10:46:14 <michagogo> hehe
 428 2014-12-08 10:47:05 <wumpus> we don't use openssl directly anywhere yet
 429 2014-12-08 10:47:16 <wumpus> and using boost in qt code... nah, rather not
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 433 2014-12-08 10:51:54 <wumpus> gmaxwell: the problem with checking the cipher after the connection is made is that you'd somehow have to inject code between having made the SSL connection and the start of the HTTP processing
 434 2014-12-08 10:52:03 koeppelmann has joined
 435 2014-12-08 10:52:36 <wumpus> I'm sure that's possible somehow, but it would require quite a lot of diving to find out
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 437 2014-12-08 10:54:33 <wumpus> in principle Qt just offers a simple 'give me this URI and get back to me when the request is finished or failed' API
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 446 2014-12-08 11:06:11 <wumpus> oh, qt5 grew a QNetworkReply::encrypted signal which is invoked when the connection is encrypted http://qt-project.org/doc/qt-5/qnetworkreply.html#encrypted
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 448 2014-12-08 11:09:20 <wumpus> it would be possible to check there what  :sslConfiguration()->sessionCipher()->protocol() and see if it is in today's set of allowable protocols
 449 2014-12-08 11:09:27 kromtar has joined
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 451 2014-12-08 11:10:26 <wumpus> and if not, call ->abort()
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 456 2014-12-08 11:24:24 <michagogo> So for Qt4 you tell it that you want it to use TLSv1, and for Qt5 you can use this new piece of data to check?
 457 2014-12-08 11:24:25 oujh has joined
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 460 2014-12-08 11:25:31 <wumpus> possible
 461 2014-12-08 11:26:40 MaxSan has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
 462 2014-12-08 11:27:25 <wumpus> for now I'm going to implement this only for qt5
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 466 2014-12-08 11:33:55 <wumpus> how incredibly useful 2014-12-08 11:24:44 GUI: netRequestEncrypted : protocol is  "" ( -1 ) 
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 469 2014-12-08 11:38:40 <wumpus> and sslConfiguration().protocol() is still "SecureProtocols".. eh yes
 470 2014-12-08 11:41:57 <wumpus> maybe this is called before choosing a cipher
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 474 2014-12-08 11:46:54 <wumpus> does anyone know a SSLv3-only webserver to test with?
 475 2014-12-08 11:48:08 <wumpus> ... I suppose getCiphers() on a SSLv3 connection should return only SSLv3 ciphers, and not TLS ones, but I need to test this
 476 2014-12-08 11:50:08 <wumpus> hm, no, this won't work, as TLSv1.0/v1.1 didn't introduce any ciphers...
 477 2014-12-08 11:50:39 <wumpus> so e.g. TLSv1.0 will also announce only SSLv3 ciphers
 478 2014-12-08 11:50:53 weilu has joined
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 480 2014-12-08 11:52:54 <wumpus> giving up on this for now, this is useless
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 485 2014-12-08 11:57:23 <wumpus> filed a qt bug, let's see what they say https://bugreports.qt-project.org/browse/QTBUG-43168
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 493 2014-12-08 12:02:23 <sipa> wumpus: to find the bug in #5439, i'm really going to have to see the binary that Travis builds, i'm afraid
 494 2014-12-08 12:03:17 <wumpus> you could add an upload step to your travis script, I suppose
 495 2014-12-08 12:04:51 <michagogo> wumpus: done
 496 2014-12-08 12:07:36 <wumpus> .travis.yml has a commented-out scp line, the only issue is access control
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 499 2014-12-08 12:09:43 <gr33n-ion> yo guys wassup
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 526 2014-12-08 12:45:48 <raji_> hello any one there?
 527 2014-12-08 12:46:13 <raji_> I need a website to exchange btc to pm and vice versa
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 529 2014-12-08 12:46:55 Burrito has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
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 531 2014-12-08 12:48:40 <wumpus> #bitcoin please
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 537 2014-12-08 12:56:15 weilu has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 538 2014-12-08 12:57:52 <wumpus> qt's http implementation is driving me crazy https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/5216/files#r21449258
 539 2014-12-08 12:59:33 Centaure has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
 540 2014-12-08 12:59:51 <sipa> travis is not noticing my new commit on #5439 :(
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 544 2014-12-08 13:04:07 <wumpus> huh, I don't see a travis overview at all anymore in that commit
 545 2014-12-08 13:04:41 <sipa> maybe it's blacklisting that commit or so... too many failed attempts?
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 548 2014-12-08 13:05:12 <wumpus> let's see if I can manually relaunch it
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 553 2014-12-08 13:19:03 <BitLuck__> Use http://bitluck.info/ Protect your Anonymity!
 554 2014-12-08 13:19:23 <sipa> not here
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 595 2014-12-08 14:30:50 <rubensayshi> does anyone know a decent (open source) implementation of estimating fees (before signing) ?
 596 2014-12-08 14:33:01 <sipa> are you referring the the floating fees mechanism (which afaik is only implemented in bitcoin core), or just knowing in advance what the fees of a to-be-constructed transaction are?
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 603 2014-12-08 14:41:35 <rubensayshi> sipe, the 2nd, constructing a (p2sh) tx and I need to know what the size (and thus the resulting fee) would be once signed
 604 2014-12-08 14:41:38 <rubensayshi> sipa*
 605 2014-12-08 14:42:45 <sipa> rubensayshi: you can't know that without knowing the number of inputs you'll need to use
 606 2014-12-08 14:42:56 <sipa> rubensayshi: if you need control over that, you need to use the raw transaction api
 607 2014-12-08 14:43:44 <rubensayshi> I'm constructing the TX in my own project
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 610 2014-12-08 14:44:36 <rubensayshi> I guess I can got all the data to estimate it more or less
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 612 2014-12-08 14:45:35 <sipa> if you create the transaction yourself it is easy: size * fee_per_byte :)
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 614 2014-12-08 14:46:02 <Luke-Jr> (size should include the expected signature sizes)
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 616 2014-12-08 14:48:42 <sipa> rubensayshi: as to what a reasonable fee_per_byte is... that's a hard problem; you should definitely go above the minimum relay fee on the network if you care to see your transaction relayed, but that does not guarantee it will be mined in a reasonable time
 617 2014-12-08 14:49:16 MagicFab_ has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
 618 2014-12-08 14:49:38 <Luke-Jr> unless the transaction is urgent, I'd personally just go for gradually re-issuing the transaction (be sure to respend the same UTXOs!) with a higher fee
 619 2014-12-08 14:50:04 <rubensayshi> the system has 2 parts, where the 2nd part 'cosigns' the multisig TX
 620 2014-12-08 14:50:15 <rubensayshi> but I want to calculate the size (and the fee) in first part
 621 2014-12-08 14:50:16 <Luke-Jr> heh, I guess that makes it harder too >_<
 622 2014-12-08 14:50:22 <rubensayshi> before the last signature
 623 2014-12-08 14:50:49 <sipa> the actual ECDSA signatures are ~72 bytes
 624 2014-12-08 14:50:59 <sipa> that should be enough to estimate the resulting size?
 625 2014-12-08 14:52:35 <rubensayshi> hmm, yea I guess I could just get the size of the tx and add the 72 bytes for the remaining signature
 626 2014-12-08 14:52:53 <rubensayshi> was overthinking it I guess by wanting to calculate the whole size seperate from the creating of the tx
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 629 2014-12-08 14:57:11 <rubensayshi> thanks btw ;-)
 630 2014-12-08 14:58:59 <Soze49> Hi, what is the status of the 'header first' or any other parallel download method (acording to core development update #5, work was in progress for version .9) ?
 631 2014-12-08 14:59:49 <wumpus> Soze49: it has been merged in master weeks ago
 632 2014-12-08 15:00:36 coiner has joined
 633 2014-12-08 15:01:20 <sipa> on october 17th, to be specific
 634 2014-12-08 15:01:30 <sipa> so months is probably more accurate :)
 635 2014-12-08 15:01:44 <Soze49> ok, I see, but is it the default method for bitcoin-qt ? because I notice huge amount of outgoing traffic in a full clone
 636 2014-12-08 15:01:54 <sipa> which version are you running?
 637 2014-12-08 15:02:06 <Soze49> I mean, the outgoing traffic is twice of the incoming traffic, in a full sync
 638 2014-12-08 15:02:09 <sipa> it's not in any release yet
 639 2014-12-08 15:02:16 <Soze49> ah, ok
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 641 2014-12-08 15:02:24 <sipa> so unless you compiled from master yourself, you're using the old code
 642 2014-12-08 15:02:28 <wumpus> in *master*, not in any release
 643 2014-12-08 15:02:43 <wumpus> you'll have to wait for the next major release if you use releases
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 645 2014-12-08 15:05:03 <Soze49> I see. I want to put out 3 full nodes, but the bandwidth is too high and limiting it without all the majority of clients doing parallel download will punish any first timer that gets into any of thouse nodes
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 647 2014-12-08 15:06:25 <sipa> you can copy the blocks and chainstate directory from nodes you trust
 648 2014-12-08 15:06:33 <sipa> (like nodes you're running yourself)
 649 2014-12-08 15:08:06 <wumpus> as long as you don't copy between ARM and x86 or vice-versa, that's fixed in master but not any release
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 655 2014-12-08 15:10:54 <Soze49> yes, but the problem is not for creating nodes, is for putting out there something that will not chase way newcomers. I mean, If I put out a low bandwith node, or if I limit the bandwith per connection and If the 'first timer' is not using 'headers only' he will have a very low sync time if he reaches one of my nodes.
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 657 2014-12-08 15:13:45 <sipa> yes
 658 2014-12-08 15:15:45 <stonecoldpat> could you not just kick him from using your node? that way you won't be punishing him with a slow speed
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 660 2014-12-08 15:16:19 <stonecoldpat> e.g. only accept headers first, i don't think thats a bad approach
 661 2014-12-08 15:16:43 <wumpus> I'm sure there are plenty of slow nodes though, so unless you limit the bandwidth to something *really* crappy I doubt you'll be doing a bad thing by adding more nodes
 662 2014-12-08 15:16:59 <sipa> Soze49: at this point, if you want to run a node but don't want to provide upload to other nodes, run with -nolistne
 663 2014-12-08 15:17:02 <sipa> -nolisten
 664 2014-12-08 15:17:13 <sipa> the usefulness will be much lower, obviously
 665 2014-12-08 15:17:43 <wumpus> see eg the scripts in contrib/qos
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 669 2014-12-08 15:21:13 <sipa> stonecoldpat: that's actually not a bad idea... a means to only provide upload to headersfirst clients (which can deal with being throttled)
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 671 2014-12-08 15:21:22 <sipa> stonecoldpat: though only after significant adoption, i guess
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 675 2014-12-08 15:26:57 <wumpus> but even for headers-first clients, if you throttle to a really silly slow speed it may be you're doing more hurt than good 
 676 2014-12-08 15:29:09 <wumpus> but indeed, you won't ever completely block their progress
 677 2014-12-08 15:31:51 <wumpus> I like tor's throttling, you can tell it to use X bytes per period Y, say 4GB per day, and it will serve that amount at the full speed then hibernate until the next period
 678 2014-12-08 15:32:57 <wumpus> (on top of that it can also do actual bandwidth throttling, but I like the approach, it slows nothing down)
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 732 2014-12-08 16:36:40 <gmaxwell> wumpus: probably the biggest source of complaints about bandwidth isn't monthly limits, but broken bufferbloat routers where high usage causes really annoying latency for the user.  A windowed cap doesn't really address that.
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 740 2014-12-08 16:40:25 <wumpus> for VPSes you don't really get around having monthly limits though
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 744 2014-12-08 16:44:20 <wumpus> would be nice to say I donate X GB/month to serving historical blocks to the bitcoin networks on servers that don't normally reach their monthly cap, can't really do that right now
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 747 2014-12-08 16:46:06 <sipa> one way of doing that would be downgrading off NODE_NETWORK (and disconnecting block requesting peer) occasionally
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 749 2014-12-08 16:46:22 <sipa> but that can only fix monthly limits, not really peak usage
 750 2014-12-08 16:46:32 <wumpus> just throttling is already possible at the OS level (well okay, so would just by killing bitcoind and restarting it in cron...)
 751 2014-12-08 16:46:52 <gavinandresen> sipa gmaxwell wumpus: I’m working on a ‘test until failure’ branch to experiment with much larger block sizes— want to run my plans by you to sanity check them.
 752 2014-12-08 16:46:54 <wumpus> then again you may want to *keep up* with blocks just not serve them
 753 2014-12-08 16:47:19 <wumpus> sipa: right, that sounds good
 754 2014-12-08 16:48:27 <wumpus> gavinandresen: okay
 755 2014-12-08 16:48:52 <gavinandresen> I want to propose that the block size increase to 20MB, so the goal is to test with real-world 20-MB+ blocks and see what happens
 756 2014-12-08 16:49:32 <gavinandresen> So I’m creating a tool to create a weird -regtest-mode chain that is based on real-world transactions in the actual blockchain
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 758 2014-12-08 16:50:52 <gavinandresen> After that is working, I plan on creating some re-org scenarios and just generally banging on it until I can convince y’all that everything actually works at big block sizes.
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 760 2014-12-08 16:51:49 <gavinandresen> Sound like a reasonable approach?
 761 2014-12-08 16:51:58 <wumpus> a 20-MB-testnet would make sense
 762 2014-12-08 16:52:31 <gavinandresen> wumpus: good idea, I should do that too
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 765 2014-12-08 16:53:41 <sipa> gavinandresen: sounds good; it'll take some time to convince me that we actually need such big blocks, but researching where our current bottlenecks before we can scale to that point is definitely needed first
 766 2014-12-08 16:53:50 <wumpus> but rest sounds good, makes sense to start testing with larger sizes to know how far it can scale with the current code (and where the bottlenecks are)
 767 2014-12-08 16:54:23 <wumpus> sipa: agreed, I don't think it's quite necessary yet either, but it doesn't hurt to know where we stand
 768 2014-12-08 16:54:29 <sipa> exactly
 769 2014-12-08 16:54:45 <sipa> it would be the #1 blocker in any case: not knowing whether we can deal with it
 770 2014-12-08 16:55:01 <gmaxwell> gavinandresen: well what you'd proposed before was something like 20mb and sizes that increase after at some pace, and that would fail over at the first further increase because there are deep protocol assumptions that no message is greater than 32mbytes.
 771 2014-12-08 16:56:18 <gavinandresen> gmaxwell: … would fail if no changes are made to how blocks are communicated.  That would obviously have to change, or the 32-mb message limit would be a de-facto soft limit.
 772 2014-12-08 16:57:12 <gavinandresen> I really want to never hit the limit, just like we have never really hit the 1MB limit.
 773 2014-12-08 16:57:29 <hearn> wumpus: i think the easiest way to implement that is to simply control the pruning depth  - i think it was discussed a lot some time ago and there was agreement it was  reasonable approach?
 774 2014-12-08 16:57:40 <wumpus> it may be wise to keep the message limit at what it is, with regard to DoSes
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 776 2014-12-08 16:57:55 <sipa> so TIL wrt x86_64 assembly: there is a 'red zone' which is 128 bytes beyond the stack, for scratch space which may be overwritten by other functions. Turns out, if the compiler uses this space in a function with an inline asm block, you basically can't use the stack, as you don't know what the stack pointer points to
 777 2014-12-08 16:57:56 <hearn> wumpus: i.e. nodes advertise that they have the last N blocks and if you want to cut down on bandwidth usage or disk space, you just reduce N. can't serve data you don't have. then nodes are smart enough to rebalance their downloading as they progress through the chain
 778 2014-12-08 16:57:59 <wumpus> hearn: pruning depth?
 779 2014-12-08 16:58:17 <sipa> yes, if we had a way to advertize that, sure
 780 2014-12-08 16:58:29 <hearn> sipa: there is a gcc flag to control the red zone size, iirc
 781 2014-12-08 16:58:34 <sipa> now the only choice is between full node and not, and that definitely has to be made more flexible
 782 2014-12-08 16:58:43 * hearn has vague memories of amd64 red zone causing some kind of bugs a long time ago in the kernel
 783 2014-12-08 16:58:58 <wumpus> hearn: I've never regarded that as a bandwidth-saving feature, just a disk space saving one
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 785 2014-12-08 16:59:15 <hearn> wumpus: but it can also control bandwidth, right? imperfectly but might as well try and kill two birds with one stone.
 786 2014-12-08 16:59:17 <sipa> hearn: there's another trivial workaround, allocating the temp variables you need outside the asm block, and pass their address as input to the asm template
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 788 2014-12-08 16:59:29 <sipa> hearn: which has the advantage that it can actually make use of the red zone optimization
 789 2014-12-08 16:59:37 <hearn> sipa: sounds good to me
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 791 2014-12-08 17:00:16 <sipa> and right when i want to point you to the PR to do so, i see that travis failed on it...
 792 2014-12-08 17:01:20 <wumpus> sounds dangerous to use that in consensus code
 793 2014-12-08 17:01:49 <wumpus> maybe you're taking the asm optimization one step too far
 794 2014-12-08 17:02:02 <sipa> well, i know of no other way of making it work
 795 2014-12-08 17:02:06 <sipa> (with inline asm)
 796 2014-12-08 17:02:37 <wumpus> I know, but at some point, a bit of extra gain in speed is just not worth the risk, and also the reviewing difficulty
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 798 2014-12-08 17:03:12 <wumpus> crypto code is already difficult to understand enough with plain C, let alone all kinds of platform specific magic
 799 2014-12-08 17:04:11 <gmaxwell> wumpus: really the asm isn't substantially harder to review than the C code. Platform specific fun is a pain, but thats also why there are build time and runtime tests.
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 801 2014-12-08 17:04:41 <gmaxwell> We take a lot of risk from libraries, we can just pretend its not there.
 802 2014-12-08 17:05:01 <wumpus> gmaxwell: platform specific does mean that it's replicated for different platforms, so has to be reviewed for every platform separately + risk of divergence between platforms
 803 2014-12-08 17:05:39 <wumpus> yes, it's not better by using other people's libraries, that's not what I mean
 804 2014-12-08 17:06:00 <gmaxwell> wumpus: And, alas. The same can happen with C code too.
 805 2014-12-08 17:06:12 <wumpus> sure it can
 806 2014-12-08 17:06:29 <gmaxwell> wumpus: plus you take other consistency risks, if the code isn't taking the available performance there is an incentive for people to use entirely different code.
 807 2014-12-08 17:06:48 <wumpus> ok, never mind then
 808 2014-12-08 17:07:24 <sipa> wumpus: i'm fine with not using the secp256k1 asm code in consensus code in bitcoin, until we think it's sufficiently stable and reviewed
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 810 2014-12-08 17:07:48 <wumpus> sipa: I think that'd be a good precaution
 811 2014-12-08 17:08:08 <sipa> for now, it's only for one platform anyway
 812 2014-12-08 17:08:34 <sipa> if there would be more asm-optimized platforms, we can make the decision (once it's used in consensus code) independently for each platform too
 813 2014-12-08 17:08:42 <wumpus> sure, but it sets a precedence for other platforms
 814 2014-12-08 17:09:07 <sipa> agree
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 819 2014-12-08 17:10:56 <wumpus> don't get me wrong I think it's very nice to get secp256k1 as fast as possible on every given platform, but  I get a bit scared when we start talking about scary stack overwrite bugs and such :-)
 820 2014-12-08 17:11:55 <sipa> if it's any consolation: any bug i've encountered so far since publishing that code, has been due to some incorrect usage of the inline asm construct
 821 2014-12-08 17:12:12 <sipa> as in: they all failed immediately in some configuration
 822 2014-12-08 17:12:25 <gmaxwell> wumpus: well it wasn't like that. That code makes no dynamic memory accesses.. everything is accessing fixed offsets. It's just an issue that resulted from getting rid of YASM and the enclosing enviroment for inline asm being somewhat different.
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 824 2014-12-08 17:13:08 <sipa> it seems there are indeed many things to take into account when using that construct (and indeed, very platform-specific ones), but it's not something that won't be caught by tests
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 829 2014-12-08 17:14:21 <wumpus> if it gets deterministically caught by tests that's good; it would be worse if for example an unpredictable interrupt at a certain point causes a value on the stack to be overwritten and possible a validation to fail/pass
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 831 2014-12-08 17:15:07 <sipa> funny that you bring that up; interrupt handlers are guaranteed to never touch the red zone
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 835 2014-12-08 17:18:47 <hearn> ye gods
 836 2014-12-08 17:18:57 <wumpus> I'd hoped so, just don't accidentally use more than the 128 bytes <:
 837 2014-12-08 17:18:57 <sipa> ...?
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 839 2014-12-08 17:19:03 <hearn> b.i managed to update their wallet so every single transaction leaked the private keys?!
 840 2014-12-08 17:19:04 <sipa> wumpus: i can't
 841 2014-12-08 17:19:11 <sipa> wumpus: it's GCC doing that, not the asm code
 842 2014-12-08 17:19:37 <sipa> wumpus: i'll show you once travis passes :)
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 844 2014-12-08 17:20:37 <wumpus> sipa: ok that's reassuring
 845 2014-12-08 17:20:41 <wumpus> hearn: whoa
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 847 2014-12-08 17:20:55 <wumpus> *transactions* leak the private key?
 848 2014-12-08 17:21:14 <sipa> hearn: wth?
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 850 2014-12-08 17:21:43 <hearn> https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2onm5r/blockchaininfo_security_disclosure/
 851 2014-12-08 17:22:07 <hearn> wumpus: it's a bit hard to tell what's going on but it appears b.i did something to their RNG such that every tx (?) reused an R value. or close to every, perhaps
 852 2014-12-08 17:22:07 <hearn> not sure
 853 2014-12-08 17:22:18 <hearn> but about $100k worth of coin got leaked within a few hours, it seems
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 857 2014-12-08 17:25:14 <wumpus> in that link they speak about generating addresses, so it sounds like they generated predictable private keys, but it makes sense a bad rng would affect nonces as well
 858 2014-12-08 17:25:25 <paveljanik> here it is https://github.com/blockchain/My-Wallet/commit/98d5a7ca59ef04d06ac6aee468634b12975a0f5c
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 860 2014-12-08 17:27:03 <wumpus>  // extract some randomness from Math.random() *cringe*
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 864 2014-12-08 17:27:57 <hearn> i wonder where the bug exactly lies? i'm guessing maybe new Int32Array(rng_psize/4) didn't evaluate to what was expected?
 865 2014-12-08 17:28:25 <gmaxwell> wumpus: I don't know why after multiple hundreds of bitcoin loss they still refuse to stop using things like homebrew rngs and use the browsers strong cryptographic rng (and refuse to run if its not available).
 866 2014-12-08 17:28:27 <hearn> although this whole construct looks scary. it's using the browser crypto RNG as input to a custom javascript "userland" rng
 867 2014-12-08 17:28:45 <hearn> easy to mess that up. as the android team learned the hard way.
 868 2014-12-08 17:29:02 <gmaxwell> hearn: yes, it doesn't even require the cryptographic rng be available.
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 870 2014-12-08 17:29:45 <gmaxwell> hearn: looked like it was wiping out its state and ending up only seeding it with the time. Though it's hard to tell, they force pushed that repository several times and the history there looks inconsistent with what it was last night.
 871 2014-12-08 17:30:21 <paveljanik> looks like it is -        _window.crypto.getRandomValues(word_array);  for _window.msCrypto?
 872 2014-12-08 17:30:36 <wumpus> gmaxwell: "mixing a value into the random pool" using just xor, what could possibly go wrong
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 874 2014-12-08 17:31:25 <wumpus> gmaxwell: right, they definitely should just use the system's rng and bail out if not available
 875 2014-12-08 17:31:47 <wumpus> mixing an entropy pool seems like a definite 'don't try this at home'
 876 2014-12-08 17:32:28 <gmaxwell> paveljanik: it uses it but not directly and not mandatorily. The prior huge losses from an rng was because they changed things around so that signing ran in webworkers where it wasn't available and if fell back to math.random (a 32 or 48 bit LCG seeded by time in most browsers)
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 878 2014-12-08 17:33:14 <gmaxwell> I like to analyize failures else where to see what lessons can be extracted to prevent future failures, but I didn't see anything here that hadn't already been cautioned against.
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 880 2014-12-08 17:34:19 <hearn> actually this was a good kick for me. it reminded me that the workaround i wrote for the android rng issue was never integrated into bitcoinj directly, it was added into wallet apps themselves.
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 882 2014-12-08 17:34:38 <hearn> if someone were to write a new android wallet that wasn't based on andreas' and they forgot about/didn't know about the android screwup, they might forget to use the workaround. it should be integrated.
 883 2014-12-08 17:34:42 <hearn> i will do this soon
 884 2014-12-08 17:35:14 <wumpus> that sounds like a good precaution
 885 2014-12-08 17:35:56 <hearn> +        if (rng_pool.filter(function(v) { return Math.abs(v) == 0; }).length > 12) {
 886 2014-12-08 17:35:56 <hearn> +            throw 'RNG Pool contains a large number of zero elements'
 887 2014-12-08 17:35:56 <hearn> +        }
 888 2014-12-08 17:36:10 <hearn> interesting attempt to self check there. guess it didn't work
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 898 2014-12-08 17:42:19 <hearn> interestingly the js verifier detected a git/serving mismatch. i guess they were too panicked to check code in during the attempt to fix it. but they posted and said "it's all good guys" and everyone was relieved.
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 904 2014-12-08 17:51:59 <b-itcoinssg> did I miss the discussion? was in the reuse of the random number in generating private keys that was at fault with blockchain . info ?
 905 2014-12-08 17:52:18 <b-itcoinssg> if so how did someone exploit it so quickly?
 906 2014-12-08 17:52:52 Guest9784 is now known as Sleepnbum
 907 2014-12-08 17:53:31 <gmaxwell> people have automation to exploit this kind of bug, they've also made that sort of mistake before.
 908 2014-12-08 17:53:38 <gmaxwell> so attackers were ready.
 909 2014-12-08 17:53:57 <hearn> the attacker in this case is apparently a "good guy" attacker who wants to reunite people with their coins
 910 2014-12-08 17:54:13 arubi has joined
 911 2014-12-08 17:56:02 <gmaxwell> well one of probably multiple attackers.
 912 2014-12-08 17:56:25 <b-itcoinssg> I see
 913 2014-12-08 17:57:36 <b-itcoinssg> I also heard that the private keys were broadcasted? that did'nt make much sense to me. Wondering if the experts here could enlighten me.
 914 2014-12-08 17:58:05 Knuk has quit (Quit: Leaving)
 915 2014-12-08 17:58:50 <gmaxwell> b-itcoinssg: They replaced their RNG with folgers crystals. As a result newly generated wallets had predictable private keys, and older wallets signed transactions with predictable DSA nonces, which -- with a bit of algebra-- allows recovering the private keys.
 916 2014-12-08 18:01:21 <b-itcoinssg> gmaxwell: thanks
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 928 2014-12-08 18:21:54 <paveljanik> github down?
 929 2014-12-08 18:22:52 <tdlfbx> looks like it to me.
 930 2014-12-08 18:23:58 <b-itcoinssg> same here
 931 2014-12-08 18:24:03 <paveljanik> too many people reading rng.js 8)
 932 2014-12-08 18:24:12 <b-itcoinssg> lol
 933 2014-12-08 18:25:50 <jgarzik> WFM
 934 2014-12-08 18:26:15 <hearn> http://www.downforeveryoneorjustme.com/github.com
 935 2014-12-08 18:27:15 <paveljanik> WFM now
 936 2014-12-08 18:27:36 <b-itcoinssg> same here
 937 2014-12-08 18:33:06 <phantomcircuit> probably a ddos
 938 2014-12-08 18:33:26 <phantomcircuit> they recently published a bunch of stuff the were the russian gov asked them to censor things
 939 2014-12-08 18:33:28 <phantomcircuit> https://status.github.com/
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 942 2014-12-08 18:39:13 <phantomcircuit> hearn, that's hilarious
 943 2014-12-08 18:39:18 <phantomcircuit> if im reading this correctly
 944 2014-12-08 18:39:33 <phantomcircuit> they changed the seeding function such that it only works correctly in IE 11
 945 2014-12-08 18:39:36 <phantomcircuit> and nowhere else
 946 2014-12-08 18:40:12 MagicFab___ has joined
 947 2014-12-08 18:40:59 <hearn> phantomcircuit: i wasn't able to spot the exact problem but i didn't look very hard
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 950 2014-12-08 18:41:43 <phantomcircuit> hearn, if you look at the commit paveljanik linked to above you can see they commented out the window.crypto stuff and replaced it with window.msCrypto
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 954 2014-12-08 18:42:07 <phantomcircuit> and they played with the actual seeding function to make it a bunch more complicated for apparently no readon
 955 2014-12-08 18:42:11 <phantomcircuit> reason*
 956 2014-12-08 18:42:56 <phantomcircuit> so they removed secure entropy from everything except ie 11 and replaced it with Math.random and then did a bunch of other stuff which doesn't immediately appear broken but probably is
 957 2014-12-08 18:43:41 <hearn> that's not what i see in the patch. var crypto became var mCrypto but contains the same value and is used in the same place
 958 2014-12-08 18:44:29 <hearn> it looks like the other way around - previously IE users did *not* get the secure rng and afterwards it looks like they should have done
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 960 2014-12-08 18:45:54 <phantomcircuit> hearn, yeah you're right
 961 2014-12-08 18:47:55 <hearn> like i said, whatever the issue is, it doesn't exactly leap out at me. the changes to the rng_seed_int function look suspicious but following the code through it seems equivalent
 962 2014-12-08 18:49:06 luktgf has joined
 963 2014-12-08 18:49:21 <hearn> knowing the history of js rng failures i suspect some bizarre typing issue
 964 2014-12-08 18:49:28 pylis1 has joined
 965 2014-12-08 18:49:48 <hearn> the old code did this
 966 2014-12-08 18:49:48 <hearn> +         rng_seed_int(65536 * Math.random(), 16);
 967 2014-12-08 18:49:54 <hearn> sorry the new code
 968 2014-12-08 18:49:59 <hearn> the old code did
 969 2014-12-08 18:49:59 <hearn>  t = Math.floor(65536 * Math.random());
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 971 2014-12-08 18:50:09 <hearn> i suspect there is something weird going on with bit shifting a double vs an int
 972 2014-12-08 18:50:31 <hearn> javascript for anything where correctness matters scares the crap out of me. heck, so do C and java.
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 974 2014-12-08 18:51:34 <jgarzik> the latter two are at least typed ;p
 975 2014-12-08 18:51:53 <hearn> trying it in the chrome console though, that construct does seem to behave ok
 976 2014-12-08 18:51:57 <hearn> so ..... not sure. am stumped.
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 978 2014-12-08 18:52:35 <paveljanik> the question is if it is the right commit...
 979 2014-12-08 18:53:20 <hearn> could also be this one
 980 2014-12-08 18:53:20 <hearn> https://github.com/blockchain/My-Wallet/commit/5dd04757d5012d545abd2309b4e970978322f4ac
 981 2014-12-08 18:54:23 <phantomcircuit> hearn, yeah
 982 2014-12-08 18:55:20 <phantomcircuit> hearn, oh and their change to rng_seed_int seems like it has a risk of never reseeding the start of the pool
 983 2014-12-08 18:55:28 <phantomcircuit> but i'd have to look at it more to be sure
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 985 2014-12-08 18:57:42 <phantomcircuit> (there is a small bug there in that they never accept zero values to reseed the pool)
 986 2014-12-08 18:57:47 <phantomcircuit> but i guess that's intentional
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 988 2014-12-08 18:59:03 <hearn> another possibility is that if (x >> i) does not behave the way i expect
 989 2014-12-08 18:59:19 <hearn> it's casting a bit shifted integer to a boolean. if that evaluates to false unexpectedly the seeding just wouldn't happen
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 991 2014-12-08 19:00:11 <phantomcircuit> hearn, in chrome/ff that ends up being the same as Math.floor(65536 * Math.random())
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 993 2014-12-08 19:03:08 <phantomcircuit> hearn, oh i bet it's if (x >> i) does not imply if( (x >> i) & 255)
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1000 2014-12-08 19:08:30 <op_null> r
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1003 2014-12-08 19:10:10 <hearn> phantomcircuit: i think if any byte in the generated random 32 bit value ends up being zero somehow, the buffer gets unaligned
1004 2014-12-08 19:10:16 <lechuga_> is libsecp256k1 doing determinstic DSA in any form
1005 2014-12-08 19:10:59 <lechuga_> if it is i didnt notice it
1006 2014-12-08 19:11:18 <lechuga_> just seea user supplied nonce
1007 2014-12-08 19:11:58 Squidicuz has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
1008 2014-12-08 19:12:00 <phantomcircuit> lechuga_, user of the library is responsible for selecting the nonce
1009 2014-12-08 19:12:32 <phantomcircuit> it's relatively easy to use a deterministic nonce though simply H(m|k)
1010 2014-12-08 19:12:46 <lechuga_> hmm
1011 2014-12-08 19:12:53 <lechuga_> it doesnt look like core does tho
1012 2014-12-08 19:12:54 <phantomcircuit> (or maybe safer...? HMAC(m, k))
1013 2014-12-08 19:13:08 <phantomcircuit> lechuga_, core relies on having a good source of entropy
1014 2014-12-08 19:13:13 <lechuga_> oops
1015 2014-12-08 19:13:14 <lechuga_> nm
1016 2014-12-08 19:13:17 jgarzik has quit (Quit: apple apple apple)
1017 2014-12-08 19:13:27 <phantomcircuit> afaik there has never been an issue with entropy and bitcoin core
1018 2014-12-08 19:13:29 <lechuga_> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/master/src/key.cpp#L79
1019 2014-12-08 19:13:30 <lechuga_> it does
1020 2014-12-08 19:13:39 <lechuga_> not really the point
1021 2014-12-08 19:13:45 <op_null> phantomcircuit: follow RFC6979 properly though, then we can verify your software's sigs are good.
1022 2014-12-08 19:13:50 <lechuga_> the mechanism should be robust enough to deal with crap entropy
1023 2014-12-08 19:14:06 <op_null> the mechanism being ECDSA?
1024 2014-12-08 19:14:21 <phantomcircuit> that seems relatively new
1025 2014-12-08 19:14:27 <lechuga_> the signing code implementation
1026 2014-12-08 19:14:44 <phantomcircuit> yeah sipa added that on nov 6th
1027 2014-12-08 19:14:48 <phantomcircuit> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/commit/a53fd4148596f5814409e15647714bdd2a71468b
1028 2014-12-08 19:15:00 <lechuga_> timely
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1032 2014-12-08 19:15:32 <phantomcircuit> but again if your rng is broken you're probably in trouble regardless since your private keys will have sucky entropy
1033 2014-12-08 19:15:47 <phantomcircuit> deterministic nonces is certainly an improvement though
1034 2014-12-08 19:15:59 <lechuga_> nod
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1038 2014-12-08 19:18:23 <hearn> phantomcircuit: the additional checks that were added at the bottom are interesting
1039 2014-12-08 19:18:28 <hearn> the first one checks that the rng pool size is what is expected
1040 2014-12-08 19:18:37 <hearn> the second one checks that there aren't continuous runs of zeros
1041 2014-12-08 19:18:43 <hearn> presumably those checks were added for a reason.
1042 2014-12-08 19:19:36 <phantomcircuit> 12 bytes of 0 in a row should be effectively impossible
1043 2014-12-08 19:19:48 <phantomcircuit> so yeah that implies there is something horribly wrong somewhere
1044 2014-12-08 19:19:52 weilu has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
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1046 2014-12-08 19:20:46 <hearn> the first check is the most interesting
1047 2014-12-08 19:21:30 Applicat_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1048 2014-12-08 19:22:08 <phantomcircuit> hearn, i wonder if they're just screwing up setting rng_psize
1049 2014-12-08 19:22:20 jb55 has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
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1051 2014-12-08 19:22:45 <hearn> that is what i'm thinking too. i'm wondering if we're seeing the whole story here though. they were pushing code to production that wasn't in git
1052 2014-12-08 19:22:54 <hearn> there are people on reddit saying their git/source verifier tool was flagging
1053 2014-12-08 19:23:17 <phantomcircuit> it was
1054 2014-12-08 19:23:30 <hearn> if rng_psize were to not be initialised somehow or end up as being undefined, then ....
1055 2014-12-08 19:23:54 <hearn> >	rng_pool = new Array(); rng_pool[undefined++] = 10; rng_pool
1056 2014-12-08 19:23:59 <hearn> <   []
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1059 2014-12-08 19:24:39 <phantomcircuit> hearn, yeah
1060 2014-12-08 19:24:42 <hearn> javascript does exactly what you would LEAST expect. apparently undefined++ == NaN and indexing an array with NaN just silently does nothing
1061 2014-12-08 19:25:02 <phantomcircuit> that would explain the 0 runs check
1062 2014-12-08 19:25:19 <hearn> and (rng_pool.length != rng_psize)
1063 2014-12-08 19:25:27 akaiiro has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
1064 2014-12-08 19:25:34 <hearn> if the rng_pool[x] = y; line were to be silently ignored, the length would end up not matching the expected size
1065 2014-12-08 19:26:10 <phantomcircuit> actually
1066 2014-12-08 19:26:25 pewpsewp has quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)
1067 2014-12-08 19:26:30 <phantomcircuit> is rng.js even being used??
1068 2014-12-08 19:27:43 <hearn> someone who is watching the conversation just messaged me this link
1069 2014-12-08 19:27:45 <hearn> https://github.com/blockchain/My-Wallet/commit/97e04aaacc9e15879666412053e277ee9a8647e8#diff-915df67ab1da101fb02555f80213831fL31
1070 2014-12-08 19:27:58 <hearn> seems this was force pushed over?
1071 2014-12-08 19:28:09 <hearn> and if so then we are correct. that commit deletes the initialisation of rng_pptr to zero
1072 2014-12-08 19:28:28 RoboTeddy has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1073 2014-12-08 19:28:38 <phantomcircuit> hearn, hahah
1074 2014-12-08 19:28:46 <phantomcircuit> oh boy
1075 2014-12-08 19:29:09 <hearn> jesus. what kind of language doesn't throw an exception when you index an int array with NaN?
1076 2014-12-08 19:29:35 <hearn> this is the second time now javascripts useless type system has caused critical RNG failure :( counterparty shipped a buggy bitcoinjs that also had a broken RNG and it was also a type safety failure
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1078 2014-12-08 19:29:47 <phantomcircuit> hearn, it does throw an exception
1079 2014-12-08 19:29:58 <hearn> it does?
1080 2014-12-08 19:30:02 <phantomcircuit> yeah
1081 2014-12-08 19:30:02 <hearn> it didn't when i tried it in the chrome console
1082 2014-12-08 19:30:15 <phantomcircuit> it does in ff
1083 2014-12-08 19:30:23 <phantomcircuit> but that doesn't matter
1084 2014-12-08 19:30:30 <hearn> ah
1085 2014-12-08 19:30:38 <phantomcircuit> because the exception doesn't prevent calling rng_get_byte
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1088 2014-12-08 19:33:03 <hearn> i'm having a hard time following the code
1089 2014-12-08 19:33:17 <hearn> the exception gets thrown to top level console, swallowed by the browser and the app can continue obliviously?
1090 2014-12-08 19:33:50 <phantomcircuit> the exact behaviour in an exception case is pretty hard to nail down in js especially when you consider that it very likely changes between browser versions
1091 2014-12-08 19:33:58 <hearn> programmers so easily forget that program termination on crash is actually a deliberate design decision
1092 2014-12-08 19:34:10 * hearn glares at objective-c
1093 2014-12-08 19:34:29 <phantomcircuit> also we're ot for -dev :P
1094 2014-12-08 19:34:35 pylis1 has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
1095 2014-12-08 19:36:38 <hearn> i think studying how RNGs fail in practice is pretty on topic given their importance. but so far the only lesson i can see from this is "don't use a scripting language to implement software that must work"
1096 2014-12-08 19:36:49 <hearn> which is hardly news, but people do it en-masse anyway.
1097 2014-12-08 19:36:55 <hearn> makes me want to go refresh my haskell .... :)
1098 2014-12-08 19:37:24 jgarzik_ is now known as jgarzik
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1100 2014-12-08 19:37:30 <hearn> also looking down the my wallet commit list ..... what is this?!
1101 2014-12-08 19:37:30 <hearn> https://github.com/blockchain/My-Wallet/commit/98d48a0b5765c6cb42f10c3d07f8b33bef6c5404
1102 2014-12-08 19:39:15 <paveljanik> it removes the fallback to http? ;-) Good, fixes MITM...
1103 2014-12-08 19:39:28 ssshhh has joined
1104 2014-12-08 19:39:31 <hearn> i'm surprised such a fallback ever existed
1105 2014-12-08 19:39:35 <hearn> i wonder what it was trying to work around
1106 2014-12-08 19:39:44 <hearn> i'm happy they have an EV cert now though
1107 2014-12-08 19:39:52 <hearn> interesting that they chose to register in luxembourg
1108 2014-12-08 19:40:50 jMyles has joined
1109 2014-12-08 19:41:47 <phantomcircuit> hearn, tax avoidance
1110 2014-12-08 19:41:50 <phantomcircuit> for sur
1111 2014-12-08 19:41:51 <phantomcircuit> e
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1113 2014-12-08 19:42:52 <hearn> the EU VAT rules are changing in january so won't help them much
1114 2014-12-08 19:43:28 <phantomcircuit> except that virtually all of their revenue can legitimately be declared essentially anywhere
1115 2014-12-08 19:43:41 <phantomcircuit> no country has a particularly strong tax nexus
1116 2014-12-08 19:43:42 Application has joined
1117 2014-12-08 19:43:47 <hearn> right
1118 2014-12-08 19:44:02 <hearn> but the new rule says you have to charge VAT at customer origin not company origin
1119 2014-12-08 19:44:19 <hearn> PAIN! at least for people who would like to sell things directly and not via a middleman
1120 2014-12-08 19:44:27 <phantomcircuit> hearn, how are they even going to know that?
1121 2014-12-08 19:44:50 <hearn> you have to collect two pieces of non-conflicting "evidence" though apparently at the last minute they decided to let a customer self declaration be evidence
1122 2014-12-08 19:44:52 <phantomcircuit> gotta love tax rules which completely ignore situations in which you dont have a clue were the customer is
1123 2014-12-08 19:45:00 <hearn> it's only for some kinds of online/digital services
1124 2014-12-08 19:45:15 <hearn> they even have a rule for what to do if the customer is travelling between countries at the time of purchase!
1125 2014-12-08 19:45:35 <hearn> it's annoying that when bitcoin at least makes it theoretically possible to sell directly to the custome, stupid eu countries trying to avoid tax competition step in and impose rules so complicated you almost have to outsource billing
1126 2014-12-08 19:45:47 rubensayshi has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1127 2014-12-08 19:46:29 <hearn> there's an open source PHP library that tries to calculate the right rate of tax, it's maintained by a professional payment services company
1128 2014-12-08 19:46:31 <hearn> i forgot what it's called
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1130 2014-12-08 19:48:47 <cfields> wumpus: around?
1131 2014-12-08 19:50:01 tdlfbx has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
1132 2014-12-08 19:50:47 <cfields> or anyone who might be interested in filling me in on what i've missed wrt 0.10 in the last ~10 days? I'm back from vacation and back to work :)
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1138 2014-12-08 19:56:09 <jonasschnelli> cfields i think that ones for you https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/5395
1139 2014-12-08 19:56:56 <jonasschnelli> and probably #5428
1140 2014-12-08 19:57:28 <cfields> jonasschnelli: thanks. having a look now. I'm just starting through my backlog of PRs/tickets, just making sure I didn't miss anything high-level first
1141 2014-12-08 19:57:44 Lightsword has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
1142 2014-12-08 19:59:53 <jonasschnelli> cfields no nothing high-level as far as i know...
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1145 2014-12-08 20:02:49 <cfields> cool, thanks
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1215 2014-12-08 21:30:44 <michagogo> Is there a document anywhere with the procedure Gavin uses to sign Windows installers?
1216 2014-12-08 21:31:03 <michagogo> What command line, which tool (signtool or signcode or something else?), etc
1217 2014-12-08 21:32:02 <michagogo> Ah, release-process.md specifies signtool
1218 2014-12-08 21:33:35 <michagogo> But are the details/command line published anywhere?
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1223 2014-12-08 21:36:27 <phantomcircuit> michagogo, try getting for sigtool in the docs
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1225 2014-12-08 21:36:35 <phantomcircuit> er signtool
1226 2014-12-08 21:38:05 <michagogo> $ git grep -i signtool
1227 2014-12-08 21:38:05 <michagogo> doc/release-process.md:    - Code-sign Windows -setup.exe (in a Windows virtual
1228 2014-12-08 21:38:05 <michagogo> (END)
1229 2014-12-08 21:38:17 simondlr has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1230 2014-12-08 21:38:19 <michagogo> (in the root)
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1237 2014-12-08 21:41:48 <hearn> michagogo: you can use a variety of tools. i use the gui from digicert
1238 2014-12-08 21:41:50 <hearn> it works for any certificate
1239 2014-12-08 21:41:58 <michagogo> hearn: yeah, I know
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1241 2014-12-08 21:42:06 <michagogo> MS alone has two tools
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1243 2014-12-08 21:42:12 <michagogo> so my question is, what do we do?
1244 2014-12-08 21:42:18 <michagogo> (or, what does Gavin do?)
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1247 2014-12-08 21:48:26 <hearn> does it matter?
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1249 2014-12-08 21:50:00 <michagogo> hearn: I'm just curious
1250 2014-12-08 21:50:11 <michagogo> And that kind of stuff is probably good to have public, anyway...
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1254 2014-12-08 22:03:53 <sipa> cfields: welcome back :)
1255 2014-12-08 22:03:54 saivann has joined
1256 2014-12-08 22:04:20 <cfields> thanks :)
1257 2014-12-08 22:04:46 <cfields> sipa: thanks for ripping out all of secp256k1's deps and not letting me enjoy it :p
1258 2014-12-08 22:05:06 <sipa> cfields: getting rid of both yasm and gmp was fun :p
1259 2014-12-08 22:05:26 <cfields> hehe
1260 2014-12-08 22:05:49 <cfields> sipa: speaking of which, probably a good time to add clang to secp256k1's travis build matrix
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1262 2014-12-08 22:05:55 <sipa> cfields: ack
1263 2014-12-08 22:05:57 <cfields> unless i missed that
1264 2014-12-08 22:06:02 <sipa> go ahead
1265 2014-12-08 22:06:14 <cfields> ok, that one's trivial. doing now
1266 2014-12-08 22:06:32 <sipa> i had to convert the intel assembly code to att syntax, because it seems clang on darwin doesn't support the intel syntax
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1269 2014-12-08 22:08:03 <cfields> i saw. annoying. also the other asm bug that bitcoin's osx clang build found
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1271 2014-12-08 22:08:36 <sipa> there's one more i'm working on now
1272 2014-12-08 22:08:48 Andymeows has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
1273 2014-12-08 22:10:51 <cfields> in addition to #142 ?
1274 2014-12-08 22:11:16 <sipa> no, #14
1275 2014-12-08 22:11:20 <sipa> no, #142
1276 2014-12-08 22:12:03 <cfields> sipa: see https://github.com/bitcoin/secp256k1/pull/144. probably worth rebasing 142 on top of that to verify
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1278 2014-12-08 22:12:40 <sipa> will do
1279 2014-12-08 22:13:04 <sipa> done
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1283 2014-12-08 22:14:28 <cfields> also now that there's a possible dep-less build, it's possible to have travis build for mingw/arm if you want
1284 2014-12-08 22:14:46 <sipa> that would be nice
1285 2014-12-08 22:14:59 <cfields> not sure how necessary since bitcoin's doing that anyway, though
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1287 2014-12-08 22:15:20 <sipa> not a priority in any case
1288 2014-12-08 22:15:43 <cfields> sure
1289 2014-12-08 22:16:12 <cfields> well, great work on the lib. looks like you were very busy while i was gone :)
1290 2014-12-08 22:16:13 <sipa> and many travis combinations is pretty expensive
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1336 2014-12-08 22:46:47 <sipa> cfields: gah, adding clang really seems to make things slower
1337 2014-12-08 22:46:58 <sipa> (travis slower i mean)
1338 2014-12-08 22:47:18 <cfields> sipa: we could selectively use it for a build or two, if you'd prefer
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1340 2014-12-08 22:47:30 <sipa> it's fine
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1352 2014-12-08 22:53:44 <sipa> cfields: aaargh
1353 2014-12-08 22:53:58 <sipa> and it seems clang generates broken code at -O0 with that inline asm block
1354 2014-12-08 22:54:16 <sipa> (it uses a register that gets clobbered to refer to memory variables...)
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1357 2014-12-08 22:56:36 <cfields> mm, known issue?
1358 2014-12-08 22:56:41 <sipa> no clue
1359 2014-12-08 22:57:55 <sipa> gcc behaves exactly the same way, but produces an error if it can't vacate %rbp
1360 2014-12-08 22:58:05 <sipa> clang just produces the code regardless, it seems
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1363 2014-12-08 22:58:47 <sipa> i'll whip up a minimal test program
1364 2014-12-08 22:59:00 <cfields> mm, wasn't it clang that errored in that case for the bitcoin build?
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1368 2014-12-08 22:59:48 <cfields> ah nm, was thinking of the stack error
1369 2014-12-08 23:00:01 <sipa> yes, because gcc fails to generate code, and configure detects it, so it doesn't use the assembly
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1371 2014-12-08 23:01:26 <sipa> basically, we need -fomit-frame-pointer
1372 2014-12-08 23:01:33 <sipa> which is implied by -O1
1373 2014-12-08 23:01:41 <sipa> any way to enforce that at configure time?
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1375 2014-12-08 23:01:53 <sipa> (when asm is enabled)
1376 2014-12-08 23:01:55 <cfields> right, was just checking that
1377 2014-12-08 23:02:21 <cfields> i've seen several other libs/progs with hand-written asm that require that
1378 2014-12-08 23:02:33 <cfields> (ffmpeg as a good example)
1379 2014-12-08 23:02:34 <gmaxwell> sipa: as I said before, ... this would be much easier with one less register in use.
1380 2014-12-08 23:02:51 <gmaxwell> And probably not slower, due to register renaming.
1381 2014-12-08 23:02:57 <sipa> hmm?
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1383 2014-12-08 23:03:58 <sipa> one register less means spilling some variable to/from ram... how does register renaming matter?
1384 2014-12-08 23:04:13 <sipa> (well, L1 cache i'm sure, not RAM)
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1387 2014-12-08 23:06:10 <cfields> back in a bit
1388 2014-12-08 23:06:54 <gmaxwell> sipa: the cpu can use rename registers for pushed/popped data.
1389 2014-12-08 23:07:04 <gmaxwell> (at least in anything remotely modern)
1390 2014-12-08 23:07:13 <sipa> but we can't use push/pop :)
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1392 2014-12-08 23:09:02 <gmaxwell> not sure if it works for arbritary writes/reads, it might.
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1394 2014-12-08 23:13:43 <sipa> gmaxwell: there is one register which only ever has a constant in it, that's probably trivial to spill without much impact (just code size, i expect)
1395 2014-12-08 23:13:50 * sipa benchmarks
1396 2014-12-08 23:15:12 <sipa> well, spill... just reload the constant every time
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1440 2014-12-08 23:48:24 <sipa> gmaxwell: 't is not possible!
1441 2014-12-08 23:48:31 <sipa> it's faster with spilling :(
1442 2014-12-08 23:48:53 <sipa> 0.3%
1443 2014-12-08 23:50:22 <phantomcircuit> did you really measure the 0.3%
1444 2014-12-08 23:50:25 <sipa> yes
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1446 2014-12-08 23:50:30 <phantomcircuit> hehe
1447 2014-12-08 23:50:54 <sipa> it's around 81.05us for a verification after, and 81.30us before
1448 2014-12-08 23:51:09 <sipa> and yes, the noise level is lower than that
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1454 2014-12-08 23:57:05 <Luke-Jr> sipa: do libsecp256k1 test cases also check some failures?
1455 2014-12-08 23:57:20 <sipa> Luke-Jr: many
1456 2014-12-08 23:57:28 <sipa> what type of failure do you mean?
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