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  10 2014-12-11 00:07:01 <ryan-c> How does one determine which output is covered by SIGHASH_SINGLE?
  11 2014-12-11 00:07:20 <gmaxwell> the output at the same index as the signature.
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  13 2014-12-11 00:09:38 <ryan-c> gmaxwell: That's what I thought, thanks. I don't suppose you can clarify why SIGHASH_SINGLE can't have more inputs than outputs? (does SIGHASH_SINGLE|SIGHASH_ANYONECANPAY change this?)
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  16 2014-12-11 00:10:01 <ryan-c> (I'm looking at the OP_CHECKSIG wiki page)
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  22 2014-12-11 00:13:46 <gmaxwell> ryan-c: huh? it certantly can have more inputs than outputs. Its just that the inputs past the output count can't be sighash single.
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  24 2014-12-11 00:14:06 <sipa> well... they can be
  25 2014-12-11 00:14:09 <ryan-c> gmaxwell: "Note: The transaction that uses SIGHASH_SINGLE type of signature should not have more inputs than outputs. However if it does (because of the pre-existing implementation), it shall not be rejected, but instead for every "illegal" input (meaning: an input that has an index bigger than the maximum output index) the node should still verify it, though assuming the hash of 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001"
  26 2014-12-11 00:14:13 <sipa> they just don't sign anything useufl
  27 2014-12-11 00:14:26 <ryan-c> maybe i am just not understanding that right.
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  29 2014-12-11 00:14:45 <gmaxwell> ryan-c: the warnings is incorret.
  30 2014-12-11 00:14:47 <gmaxwell> er incorrect.
  31 2014-12-11 00:15:03 <ryan-c> gmaxwell: okay, thanks
  32 2014-12-11 00:15:16 <gmaxwell> It's perfectly fine to have, say, two inputs, the first is sighash single, and one output.
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  73 2014-12-11 00:54:34 <huma_> sipa: hi. sadly, reindexing ended with "LevelDB read failure: Corruption: block checksum mismatch" when it was only 34 weeks left to index. people here suggested a hardware issue. i ran memtest - no errors. hdd smart status is ok. i ran bitcoin-qt again without -reindex. it picked up from 34 weeks and seems to be crunching blocks so far.
  74 2014-12-11 00:54:56 <sipa> how long did you run memtest?
  75 2014-12-11 00:55:04 Lexa has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
  76 2014-12-11 00:55:13 <sipa> some errors only appear after significant time, or overheating or something
  77 2014-12-11 00:55:20 <huma_> sipa: about 20 min
  78 2014-12-11 00:55:21 <sipa> and bitcoin really can stress the hardware
  79 2014-12-11 00:55:25 <gmaxwell> usually you leave memtest running overnight. Unfortunately even then it won't catch everything.
  80 2014-12-11 00:55:34 koeppelmann has joined
  81 2014-12-11 00:55:39 <huma_> i see
  82 2014-12-11 00:57:03 <sipa> how old is the machine?
  83 2014-12-11 00:57:08 <huma_> i suppose 99% of the time it's not critical (my apps do not crash or anything in daily use), but bitcoin is sensitive to precision.
  84 2014-12-11 00:57:17 <huma_> 3 years
  85 2014-12-11 00:57:30 <huma_> or 4 now
  86 2014-12-11 00:58:06 <sipa> try running bitcoin with -par=1
  87 2014-12-11 00:58:28 <sipa> that will use only a single thread for script validation
  88 2014-12-11 00:59:25 <huma_> thank you. will try that.
  89 2014-12-11 00:59:49 <huma_> 33 weeks left. slowly going there.
  90 2014-12-11 01:00:10 koeppelmann has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
  91 2014-12-11 01:00:40 <huma_> i'm waiting for skylake to upgrade
  92 2014-12-11 01:00:52 Lexa has joined
  93 2014-12-11 01:00:58 <sipa> skylake?
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  96 2014-12-11 01:01:26 <huma_> intel's new architecture
  97 2014-12-11 01:01:51 <huma_> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skylake_%28microarchitecture%29
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 100 2014-12-11 01:02:36 <sipa> yeah, was already reading that :)
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 117 2014-12-11 01:18:15 <huma_> sipa: i note a substantial slowdown in block processing after some time. down to 1-2 blocks per second.
 118 2014-12-11 01:19:23 <sipa> yup, once you pass the last checkpoint, bitcoin actually starts validating every transaction
 119 2014-12-11 01:19:33 <sipa> that's the point where -par=X matters
 120 2014-12-11 01:19:41 <sipa> by default, it will use all available cores on your system
 121 2014-12-11 01:19:56 <sipa> which can push hardware a bit too much
 122 2014-12-11 01:20:06 <huma_> it's now at -par=0 by default
 123 2014-12-11 01:20:35 <huma_> got your advice after i started it
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 125 2014-12-11 01:21:26 <huma_> sipa: wait, what is "last checkpoint"?
 126 2014-12-11 01:21:43 <sipa> use -par=1
 127 2014-12-11 01:21:50 <sipa> -par=0 means default: use all cores
 128 2014-12-11 01:21:54 <sipa> -par=1 means just one core
 129 2014-12-11 01:22:08 <huma_> i know, read that :) will do on my next run
 130 2014-12-11 01:22:16 <huma_> thank you
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 143 2014-12-11 01:43:07 <huma_> heh, this is good. here's a new error during the second reindex run: "IO error: c:\wallet\bitcoin\chainstate\012660.ldb: The process cannot access the file because it is being used by another process."
 144 2014-12-11 01:44:25 <gmaxwell> You have some broken antivirus software that is screwing up your system.
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 147 2014-12-11 01:44:49 <huma_> no antivirus here
 148 2014-12-11 01:45:10 <sipa> some virus then? :)
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 154 2014-12-11 01:47:57 <midnightmagic> or spyware
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 156 2014-12-11 01:49:11 <huma_> unlikely, but with regin kind anything is possible
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 162 2014-12-11 01:56:11 <huma_> is it safe to downgrade to 0.8.5? never had a problem with this version
 163 2014-12-11 01:56:33 <sipa> it may or may not work
 164 2014-12-11 01:57:05 <sipa> if you're not relying on it for production, maybe you can help test 0.10 on it? :)
 165 2014-12-11 01:57:15 molec has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 166 2014-12-11 01:57:36 <huma_> i mean, are there outstanding issues with 0.8.5 on the current network? :)
 167 2014-12-11 01:59:27 <gmaxwell> 0.8.5 has unfixed vulnerabilties. Seriously, there is something wrong with your host.
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 173 2014-12-11 02:13:44 <huma_> gmaxwell: what would be your guess is wrong giving the errors so far: 1. hashMerkleRoot mismatch, 2. LevelDB read failure: Corruption: block checksum mismatch, 3. IO error: c:\wallet\bitcoin\chainstate\012660.ldb: The process cannot access the file because it is being used by another process.
 174 2014-12-11 02:14:01 <sipa> your OS, your disk, your CPU or your memory are broken
 175 2014-12-11 02:14:02 <sipa> really...
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 177 2014-12-11 02:14:38 <huma_> that's a lot to cover :)
 178 2014-12-11 02:15:07 <gmaxwell> huma_: thats all very consistent with what other people have seen from 'antivirus' or 'indexing' software that corrupts their databases. The file in use message is basically a dead giveaway.
 179 2014-12-11 02:16:37 <huma_> thank you. will look into that. maybe there's an indexing service that kicks in at the wrong time.
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 184 2014-12-11 02:22:23 <chipmadness> Hey guys
 185 2014-12-11 02:22:40 <chipmadness> I was wondering if anyone here knows a good place to learn more about the coding inside bitcoin
 186 2014-12-11 02:22:51 <sipa> github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin :p
 187 2014-12-11 02:23:18 <chipmadness> any where else?
 188 2014-12-11 02:23:41 <sipa> (though you should probably first read through the developer documentation on bitcoin.org)
 189 2014-12-11 02:24:07 <phantomcircuit> gmaxwell, sadly i've left memtest running on systems for 48+ hours and failed to catch errors
 190 2014-12-11 02:24:13 <chipmadness> thank you sipa
 191 2014-12-11 02:24:21 <phantomcircuit> then rebooted and immediately found them
 192 2014-12-11 02:24:51 <phantomcircuit> memory correctness is suitably random to be difficult to diagnose
 193 2014-12-11 02:27:50 <Diablo-D3> phantomcircuit: sounds like issue with bios
 194 2014-12-11 02:28:00 <Diablo-D3> race conditions can happen in bioses
 195 2014-12-11 02:28:04 <Diablo-D3> its _hilarious_
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 197 2014-12-11 02:29:07 <phantomcircuit> Diablo-D3, it's SO-DIMM slots with capacitors that got knocked clean off
 198 2014-12-11 02:29:21 <phantomcircuit> so reliability is variable based on tight electric tolerances
 199 2014-12-11 02:29:25 <phantomcircuit> fun right
 200 2014-12-11 02:29:38 <phantomcircuit> i cant replace it either because it's basically stuck under a heat pipe
 201 2014-12-11 02:29:39 <Diablo-D3> HAHAHA
 202 2014-12-11 02:29:54 <Diablo-D3> phantomcircuit: so basically, it may boot correctly depending on how warm it is.
 203 2014-12-11 02:30:08 <phantomcircuit> oh it boots either way since it's high mem
 204 2014-12-11 02:30:17 <Diablo-D3> you know what I mean
 205 2014-12-11 02:30:25 <phantomcircuit> yeah
 206 2014-12-11 02:30:34 <Diablo-D3> oh that is priceless
 207 2014-12-11 02:30:35 BCBot` has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 208 2014-12-11 02:30:43 * Diablo-D3 adds that to his list of wtf stories
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 210 2014-12-11 02:31:16 <phantomcircuit> Diablo-D3, it's actually pretty interesting how many circuits are designing with total capacitance being from multiple ceramic caps
 211 2014-12-11 02:31:27 <Diablo-D3> phantomcircuit: best one is still the one about the pdp11 that had a switch on it with one wire going into it that will promptly crash it, and the wire is going into a ground on the mobo
 212 2014-12-11 02:31:33 <phantomcircuit> where removing a few of them has no apparent effect but changes the reliability significantly
 213 2014-12-11 02:31:38 <Diablo-D3> yeah
 214 2014-12-11 02:31:43 <Diablo-D3> thats why they have arrays of them often
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 216 2014-12-11 02:31:53 <Diablo-D3> if one happens to fail, your shit might keep working
 217 2014-12-11 02:32:05 <Diablo-D3> or at least, limp along enough to get a new box
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 220 2014-12-11 02:34:01 <phantomcircuit> Diablo-D3, for high assurance systems maybe doing that is a bad idea
 221 2014-12-11 02:34:02 <phantomcircuit> heh
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 223 2014-12-11 02:34:11 <Diablo-D3> well
 224 2014-12-11 02:34:15 <Diablo-D3> thats how you START to build them
 225 2014-12-11 02:34:22 johnsoft has joined
 226 2014-12-11 02:34:26 <Diablo-D3> but you add more shit to them
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 228 2014-12-11 02:34:38 <Diablo-D3> phantomcircuit: like ever see large scale VRM arrays on overclock-oriented mobos?
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 231 2014-12-11 02:35:07 <Diablo-D3> its pretty much assured that at the peak of overclocking on that board, that shit is waaaay out of spec
 232 2014-12-11 02:35:15 <Diablo-D3> but its so overengineered that it doesnt quite matter
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 234 2014-12-11 02:35:37 <Diablo-D3> you'll get your 8ghz overclock for the several minutes of liquid nitrogen you have
 235 2014-12-11 02:35:43 <Diablo-D3> and then it will promptly burn up
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 387 2014-12-11 05:59:00 <op_null> would anybody oppose a sendrawtransaction "dry run" patch (not for 0.10.0 though)? does all the checks but doesn't actually broadcast.
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 392 2014-12-11 06:05:37 <gmaxwell> op_null: maybe instead just a checkrawtransaction ?  or a "valid" flag on decode raw transactions output?
 393 2014-12-11 06:05:59 <gmaxwell> op_null: you could go one further and write a patch that let you disable all transaction transmission, which we were musing about being very useful. e.g. lets you use the wallet like normal but then submit your transactions over some more private method.
 394 2014-12-11 06:07:17 <op_null> that sounds sensible enough
 395 2014-12-11 06:07:41 <op_null> do you mean that the GUI would have that feature, hitting "send" just gives you the hex encoded raw treansaction?
 396 2014-12-11 06:08:27 <gmaxwell> well the first step would just be some command line / config switch that disables all the codepaths that would actually broadcast a transaction.
 397 2014-12-11 06:08:46 <gmaxwell> Thats actually enough to be useful on its own, since you can flip it on then getrawtransaction your own txn through the rpc or debug console.
 398 2014-12-11 06:09:33 EasyAt has joined
 399 2014-12-11 06:09:35 <gmaxwell> (or even run an RPC applet that autosnarfs your transactions and submits them via pond-bitmessage-mixmaster)
 400 2014-12-11 06:10:13 Aido has joined
 401 2014-12-11 06:10:35 * op_null nods
 402 2014-12-11 06:11:33 <gmaxwell> obviously more functionality would be to have the gui automatically hand it to you at send time.. also tracking when its heard it via the network, right now we have no indicator of that I think.
 403 2014-12-11 06:11:58 <gmaxwell> which would be useful even without the broadcast surpression.
 404 2014-12-11 06:13:17 <op_null> out of scope for what I was planning to do, but can lay the foundation with some sort of squelch option. I'll look into how to do that properly, I don't know any of that part of the codebase at all.
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 406 2014-12-11 06:13:53 <op_null> (you're right it should be in decoderawtransaction, I just liked the idea of calling it a dry run)
 407 2014-12-11 06:16:52 <gmaxwell> dry run sounds nice but sounds error prone
 408 2014-12-11 06:17:02 <gmaxwell> oops forgot the option now the coins are poof.
 409 2014-12-11 06:17:50 <op_null> right. decoderawtransaction should be assumed to be "safe" in that regard.
 410 2014-12-11 06:19:41 <Diablo-D3> gmaxwell: https://commerce.microsoft.com/PaymentHub/Help/Right?helppagename=CSV_BitcoinHowTo.htm
 411 2014-12-11 06:19:42 <Diablo-D3> wat
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 414 2014-12-11 06:24:05 <gmaxwell> interesting. What service is that for? (also OT here, #bitcoin)
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 557 2014-12-11 10:05:02 <wumpus> cfields: looks like the windows travis builds have problems again
 558 2014-12-11 10:05:06 <wumpus> "No output has been received in the last 10 minutes, this potentially indicates a stalled build or something wrong with the build itself."
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 581 2014-12-11 10:44:13 <huma_> sipa: -par=1 seems to be helpful. it's *very* slow, but at least no errors in 6 hours. i start thinking i'd be better off just re-download the blockchain.
 582 2014-12-11 10:49:59 <wumpus> re-downloading should never be necessary, better do -reindex
 583 2014-12-11 10:51:16 <wumpus> though problems with higher -par= generally point toward cpu overheating issues causing corruption, so be careful with using that machine for crypto
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 585 2014-12-11 10:53:27 <jonasschnelli> while trying to fix mem-leaks around the berkey-db implementation it just came to my mind: did nobody every tried to get rid of bdb/wallet.dat?
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 588 2014-12-11 10:54:47 <jonasschnelli> the implementation looks awful, maybe a possibility to factor out the wallet interaction and write a proper class where multiple "backend" would be possible.
 589 2014-12-11 10:55:17 <wumpus> moving the wallet code to another repository would have a higher priority
 590 2014-12-11 10:55:59 <jonasschnelli> so the wallet repo should use the libs and provide the wallet-code only?
 591 2014-12-11 10:56:01 <wumpus> the legacy wallet will have to support berkeleydb forever, either directly or through a compatibility script, otherwise people cannot open their old wallets
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 594 2014-12-11 10:56:45 <jonasschnelli> wumpus: bdb needs to be there, but there could be a startup-arg (-walletbackend=bdb) where user could switch backend. A manual migration would be necessary.
 595 2014-12-11 10:57:10 <wumpus> anyhow this has been talked about zillions of times, you'd first have to define a new wallet format
 596 2014-12-11 10:57:31 <wumpus> which should be self-contained to avoid this kind of trouble in the future
 597 2014-12-11 10:58:03 <wumpus> but I don't really want the wallet stuff in the bitcoind repository anymore, it's too much to maintain already, let alone if you add wallet backends and such
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 599 2014-12-11 11:00:01 <jonasschnelli> wumpus: that would also mean to move the whole Qt part to the "wallet repository"? Qt as RPC console only would not make sense
 600 2014-12-11 11:00:07 <wumpus> bitcoin core wallet, if it is to have any future beyond 'example reference implementaiton' at all, would have to turn into a SPV wallet and be its own project
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 602 2014-12-11 11:00:38 <wumpus> well a simple node-watch qt gui is useful for people on more graphical oses
 603 2014-12-11 11:00:59 <wumpus> but yes the main part would move with it
 604 2014-12-11 11:03:21 <huma_> wumpus: i've had corruption related errors 3 times already. it's day 2 of reindexing.
 605 2014-12-11 11:04:23 <wumpus> bitcoin-qt -disablewallet GUI is useful to say monitor the node bandwidth, invoke debug commands, see statistics, change configuration, that should stay and is independent from the wallet... ofcourse it could be replaced with a web interface of some kind instead of a qt gui,  if someone writes that
 606 2014-12-11 11:05:22 <wumpus> huma_: redownloading the blockchain won't help anything with that
 607 2014-12-11 11:05:36 <jonasschnelli> so you mean someone should start a independent wallet which uses the current wallet-code but while the rest of the ref. implementation comes over the libbitcoin_*?
 608 2014-12-11 11:06:11 <wumpus> jonasschnelli: I don't really care :< it's up to the person creating that project, I suppose
 609 2014-12-11 11:07:34 <wumpus> jonasschnelli: it shouldn't be a full node anymore, so a lot of the current code you won't need
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 611 2014-12-11 11:07:51 <jonasschnelli> wumpus but i think the libs first need a clean API with docs
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 613 2014-12-11 11:10:12 <wumpus> jonasschnelli: you don't need, say, the consensus code in a SPV wallet
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 616 2014-12-11 11:11:13 <wumpus> jonasschnelli: and a 'clean API with docs' isn't a goal right now, except for the consensus libraries
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 618 2014-12-11 11:14:35 <wumpus> I think the first step would be implementing SPV in the first place, that gives an idea what overlap there will be with the bitcoind project
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 620 2014-12-11 11:16:35 <wumpus> e.g.at least 1) (de)serialization 2) some form of P2P network handling 3) RPC server 
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 624 2014-12-11 11:18:35 <jonasschnelli> lots of things could be conceptual adopted form bitcoinj?
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 629 2014-12-11 11:23:43 <rusty> BlueMatt: any clues on that relay old-tx issue?  If not I can try setting up a relay server tomorrow with extra annotations, see if I can catch it in the act..
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 637 2014-12-11 11:32:46 <wumpus> jonasschnelli: yes. which begs the question, is it worth doing this in the first place?
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 642 2014-12-11 11:33:11 <wumpus> jonasschnelli: there is plenty of choice in the wallet arena
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 649 2014-12-11 11:39:15 <wumpus> jonasschnelli: I don't mean to demotivate you, I originally wrote bitcoin-qt and it'd be nice to see it as new full-featured SPV wallet
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 651 2014-12-11 11:42:36 <wumpus> but at this point it may be better for bitcoin as a whole to contribute to one of the existing projects, which already do HD, SPV, aim to be more user friendly (and/or offer a saner developer interface, like codeshark's coinvault project)
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 654 2014-12-11 11:43:21 <wumpus> and leave just the core node infrastructure to bitcoin core 
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 656 2014-12-11 11:45:54 <iwilcox> FWIW from someone who hasn't contribute, I disagree.  What Core's wallet lacks in features, it makes up for in quality.
 657 2014-12-11 11:46:00 <iwilcox> *contributed
 658 2014-12-11 11:46:57 <wumpus> well, you can keep using it, it won't go away anytime soon, just don't expect much new from it
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 660 2014-12-11 11:50:20 <wumpus> maybe that's ok with you and the quality is *because* the code is mature and doesn't receive much more than bug fixes
 661 2014-12-11 11:52:57 <iwilcox> It's more about the conservatism wrt features (whether that's deliberate or simply through feeling the wallet isn't something that deserves focus)
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 663 2014-12-11 11:53:55 <iwilcox> And I guess the fact that you can mostly take the guard rails off if you really want to with the rawtransaction stuff.
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 665 2014-12-11 11:56:13 <wumpus> almost all of the rawtransaction stuff is available even without the wallet enabled
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 669 2014-12-11 11:59:12 <wumpus> it's not that I dont think it deserves focus, I'd be happy if it received focus, but it's scope for growth is very small as long as it's still part of the bitcoin repository and all has to pass through the current bottlenecks (such as me). The number of hours in a day is limited and I have to choose my battles, I can't maintain a full scale user-friendly-as-well-as-enterprise-scalable wallet project in addition to the core infrastructure and consensus code.
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 679 2014-12-11 12:03:58 <wumpus> I suppose someone else could step up to be wallet-maintainer. But there's not really a good way to delegate within the current repository...
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 704 2014-12-11 12:24:56 <sipa> huma_: redownloading won't do anything
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 753 2014-12-11 13:28:12 <jtimon> iwilcox as wumpus says what the wallet needs to evolve faster is to become a separated repository
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 755 2014-12-11 13:29:10 <jtimon> the roadmap for that is not clear though, it could be 1) Add SPV support 2) Then Separate, or the other way around
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 757 2014-12-11 13:29:37 <sipa> there are many possibilities, i guess it'll be up to whoever implements something
 758 2014-12-11 13:30:20 <jtimon> hopefully refactors libconsensus can help with the separation too
 759 2014-12-11 13:30:45 <iwilcox> jtimon: To be clear, I'm not really fussed about faster evolution, only about preservation of the existing code in a working state.
 760 2014-12-11 13:30:52 <iwilcox> Anything more is a bonus.
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 762 2014-12-11 13:32:58 <jtimon> everybody seems to agree that separating the wallet (probably leaving a minimal "demo wallet" [similar to the "demo miner"]) would be a good thing but it's not so easy to do and so far nobody has done it
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 764 2014-12-11 13:33:38 <sipa> separating is pretty hard to do cleanly
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 766 2014-12-11 13:35:04 <jtimon> yes, at least at this point
 767 2014-12-11 13:36:17 <jtimon> as said I hope that as libconsensus grows things will need to become more modular
 768 2014-12-11 13:36:41 <sipa> well separating off the consensus code is pretty independent
 769 2014-12-11 13:37:09 <sipa> but yeah, in general, i like the evoluation of modularizing things
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 771 2014-12-11 13:39:34 <paveljanik> wumpus: should I PR #5454?
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 773 2014-12-11 13:42:08 <wumpus> libconsensus has virtually nothing to do with it
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 775 2014-12-11 13:43:21 <wumpus> paveljanik: sure!
 776 2014-12-11 13:45:03 <wumpus> the consensus library project is much more pressing because there is no other way to get the consensus right than to use bitcoind's version, so it needs to be available as a library
 777 2014-12-11 13:45:05 <jtimon> yes, is orthogonal but it requires modularization as well and it's a simpler way to get it little by little
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 779 2014-12-11 13:46:02 <jtimon> but sure I agree it is more pressing
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 781 2014-12-11 13:46:51 <jtimon> btw, what do people think could be the next thing in libconsensus?
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 783 2014-12-11 13:48:36 <sipa> we'll probably need some mechanism for callbacks to query to UTXO set, and you give it a block and it tells you whether it's valid
 784 2014-12-11 13:48:55 <sipa> not as trivial as the scripting
 785 2014-12-11 13:49:28 <jtimon> another reorganization effort that I think it's more pressing than separating the wallet is separating policy decissions, which I believe will also help with modularization
 786 2014-12-11 13:50:06 <sipa> well, if we separate off all consensus code into some module, everything that's left is policy
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 788 2014-12-11 13:50:27 <sipa> you can easily parametrize things to make the decisions external
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 790 2014-12-11 13:50:33 <warptangent> in what format is the bootstrap.dat stored? it is a portable file format, correct? is it read through a leveldb interface or something else?
 791 2014-12-11 13:50:39 <jtimon> a full block directly? why not a single full transaction first?
 792 2014-12-11 13:51:00 <wumpus> warptangent: it's simply the network serialization format for blocks
 793 2014-12-11 13:51:01 <sipa> jtimon: fair enough, yes; though that equally needs the hard parts (UXTO interface)
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 795 2014-12-11 13:51:25 <warptangent> wumpus, and it is portable? one bootstrap.dat for all platforms?
 796 2014-12-11 13:51:26 <jtimon> yeah, the utxo interface is probably the hardest next step
 797 2014-12-11 13:51:28 <sipa> warptangent: yes
 798 2014-12-11 13:51:33 <wumpus> warptangent: block after block, head-to-tail w/ no gaps
 799 2014-12-11 13:51:40 <warptangent> thank you, wumpus, sipa.
 800 2014-12-11 13:51:52 <sipa> warptangent: each block is prefixed with a 4-byte network magic, and a 4-byte length descriptor (in little endian), and then the block itself as it would be sent over the network in a 'block' message
 801 2014-12-11 13:52:36 <warptangent> ok
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 807 2014-12-11 13:55:16 <sipa> jtimon, wumpus: one thing i'd like to see happen as well is a more pluggable network mechanism
 808 2014-12-11 13:55:46 <sipa> where you can install individual handlers for particular network messages, and respond to them, keep per-node or per-peer state, do proper locking on those, ...
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 810 2014-12-11 13:56:00 <sipa> the askfor rewrite was a nice step in that direction
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 812 2014-12-11 13:57:00 <sipa> for example, i'd like to see block processing become a separate independent module that installs some handlers in the network code and in the block validation, but it otherwise independent of them
 813 2014-12-11 13:57:01 <wumpus> sipa: agreed
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 817 2014-12-11 13:57:55 <wumpus> the network packet handling, which is currently a monolithic mess in main, it should be split up per aspect
 818 2014-12-11 13:58:14 <sipa> block handling, transaction handling, alert handling, ping handling, address handling
 819 2014-12-11 13:58:26 <sipa> i think those could be pretty much totally independent from eachother
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 821 2014-12-11 13:58:36 <wumpus> I think so too
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 824 2014-12-11 13:59:12 <hearn> first order of business there would be to write unit test frameworks that allow for injection and reception of test messages
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 826 2014-12-11 14:00:05 <wumpus> isn't that what the comparison tool does?
 827 2014-12-11 14:00:14 <sipa> he means inside the core codebase
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 829 2014-12-11 14:00:37 <sipa> and i agree that would be very useful, but it would be trivial if we had pluggable network handlers in the first place :)
 830 2014-12-11 14:01:05 <wumpus> or some framework based on bitcoin-python that can test P2P aspects, similar to the current RPC tests but that test P2P
 831 2014-12-11 14:01:20 <sipa> unit tests can't replace network interaction tests
 832 2014-12-11 14:01:29 <sipa> but getting more of both is never a bad thing :)
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 834 2014-12-11 14:01:49 <paveljanik> ok, will do in the evening.
 835 2014-12-11 14:01:57 <wumpus> right, unit tests would test the individual functions in the networking code
 836 2014-12-11 14:02:10 <wumpus> but how it fits together can only be tested by actual network interaction
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 838 2014-12-11 14:02:37 <sipa> right, you wouldn't test whether 'block synchronization' works in a unit test
 839 2014-12-11 14:02:47 <sipa> but you can test whether sending an inv triggers a getdata
 840 2014-12-11 14:03:17 <wumpus> but you don't have to build actual network messages for that, just call the functions as if a packet was received
 841 2014-12-11 14:03:30 <sipa> that's what hearn means i think
 842 2014-12-11 14:03:38 <sipa> being able to intercept those
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 845 2014-12-11 14:05:03 <hearn> in bitcoinj there is a framework that lets you create fake peers, send messages from them and then block waiting for messages to them
 846 2014-12-11 14:05:44 <hearn> so you can exercise as much of the networking paths as possible, including things like reconnection logic
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 869 2014-12-11 14:26:17 <jtimon> sipa wumpus: I would like something similar to jgarzik's #4646 as a first step
 870 2014-12-11 14:26:44 <sipa> meh
 871 2014-12-11 14:26:45 <jtimon> moving moving the several message types to different files directly
 872 2014-12-11 14:26:54 <jtimon> maybe moving
 873 2014-12-11 14:26:55 <sipa> moving files is nice, no problem with it
 874 2014-12-11 14:27:10 <sipa> but it's not a structural improvement
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 876 2014-12-11 14:27:34 <sipa> and it doesn't actually make further improvements easier
 877 2014-12-11 14:27:56 <jtimon> well, not very big but you're separating dependencies on main
 878 2014-12-11 14:28:27 <jtimon> I mean, yeah, obviously the important part is separating related messages together and the like
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 880 2014-12-11 14:29:38 <jtimon> something like #4646 has to be done one way or another
 881 2014-12-11 14:29:56 <sipa> #4646 introduced a circular dependency between procmsg and main, imho that's a sign that there is no separation whatsoever, and really all that happened is a move
 882 2014-12-11 14:30:09 <sipa> imho, the only benefit of that is making your compiler use less RAM
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 884 2014-12-11 14:30:23 <jtimon> specifically something like https://github.com/jgarzik/bitcoin/commit/78edf5cb8cf65caf38080ac57040469cc9c6957f
 885 2014-12-11 14:30:48 <sipa> yup, that does have to happen
 886 2014-12-11 14:30:49 <jtimon> that can be done in main before moving things though
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 888 2014-12-11 14:31:25 <jgarzik> It was a first step, not a complete picture.  After that first step, the kitchen sink is contained within two files rather than One Big File, but it's still a kitchen sink.
 889 2014-12-11 14:31:41 <sipa> no, in 4 instead of 3
 890 2014-12-11 14:32:05 <sipa> net/main/protocol are still very intimately related, with no clear separation
 891 2014-12-11 14:32:09 <jgarzik> And it introduces an amount of source code modularity that enables easier future separation, while making diffs a bit better.
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 893 2014-12-11 14:32:27 <sipa> moving part to a new files just means there's now 4 files with no clear separation
 894 2014-12-11 14:32:40 <sipa> half of the datastructures used in message handler are defined in net
 895 2014-12-11 14:33:04 <jgarzik> using the same code does not imply no separation
 896 2014-12-11 14:33:07 <jgarzik> s/code/core/
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 898 2014-12-11 14:33:35 <sipa> anyway, my only objection against moving to a new file is that it hurts existing pull requests for imho little (but not none) benefit
 899 2014-12-11 14:34:00 <sipa> while separating small pieces of the processing provides real benefit, and touches less code
 900 2014-12-11 14:34:06 <jgarzik> I view it as transformational steps, similar to multi-step algebraic simplification, or transforming a proof.
 901 2014-12-11 14:34:06 <jtimon> I agree with jgarzik that it makes later modularization and ckeanup easier
 902 2014-12-11 14:34:33 <jtimon> although is obviously not the only possible way to do it
 903 2014-12-11 14:34:47 <sipa> see #4831 for example
 904 2014-12-11 14:34:59 <hearn> sipa: are the gitian docs up to date? i think you're the last guy who went through the process afresh
 905 2014-12-11 14:35:03 <sipa> which just moves part of the processing to a new file, and making it actually independent
 906 2014-12-11 14:35:38 <jtimon> separating the messages in main first would delay the breaking some PRs
 907 2014-12-11 14:36:29 <jgarzik> nod.  there are benefits at the patch review & PR level
 908 2014-12-11 14:37:41 <jtimon> yes, #4646 in itself is very easy to review
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 910 2014-12-11 14:38:28 <hearn> the risk of refactoring code without unit tests is that you end up breaking things without realising it
 911 2014-12-11 14:38:35 <sipa> yup
 912 2014-12-11 14:38:39 <wumpus> I do like splitting off the message handling out of main (so that what remains is the backend, the consensus of block handling)
 913 2014-12-11 14:38:49 <sipa> though pure code-movements are easy to review
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 915 2014-12-11 14:39:38 <jtimon> well, #4646 is practically move-only, I don't think it can break anything
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 917 2014-12-11 14:39:56 <wumpus> apart from modularization of the network code itself
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 919 2014-12-11 14:40:21 <sipa> agree - as said; my only concern is breaking existing PRs; i just think its benefit is very minimal
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 921 2014-12-11 14:40:49 <wumpus> what PRs are you especially concerned about?
 922 2014-12-11 14:40:57 <wumpus> do we maybe need to merge those first?
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 925 2014-12-11 14:41:27 <sipa> they all need rebasing now anyway, so perhaps it doesn't matter anymore
 926 2014-12-11 14:41:40 <sipa> i was thinking about the threadmessage condition variable, askfor management, ...
 927 2014-12-11 14:42:02 <wumpus> askfor management should be easy to rebase
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 929 2014-12-11 14:42:50 <wumpus> but sure, rebasing over code moves can be annoying 
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 932 2014-12-11 14:43:55 <hearn> remember the people who have patches that you aren't going to merge or rebase
 933 2014-12-11 14:44:10 <hearn> if there's real value in a refactoring, fine, if it's just code motion for the sake of looking busy - that makes work for other people
 934 2014-12-11 14:44:29 <wumpus> it's not for the sake of looking busy
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 938 2014-12-11 14:45:53 <jtimon> separating the messages in main first without correcting the indentation shouldn't break that many PRs, it may be doable with an identical build using inline functions
 939 2014-12-11 14:46:22 <jtimon> but at some point you will want to move the messages out of main as well
 940 2014-12-11 14:46:28 <wumpus> we're never going to reach a more modular code base if people are afraid to change things or move them around
 941 2014-12-11 14:46:52 <hearn> right, that's why i said if there's real value in it. modularity doesn't come from making smaller files though, it's more about architectural changes.
 942 2014-12-11 14:46:58 <sipa> my preference would be to do things like #4831, and for every set of messages independently
 943 2014-12-11 14:47:07 <sipa> until there are none left
 944 2014-12-11 14:47:11 <wumpus> sigh, this is not about making smaller files
 945 2014-12-11 14:47:53 <wumpus> no one is talking about just making smaller files, that would be silly
 946 2014-12-11 14:49:01 <sipa> right; i don't really care about whether files or small or large; just about having logical separationg between pieces of code (and if that separation matches the file structure, so much the better)
 947 2014-12-11 14:49:22 <wumpus> the point is that main has both network code and consensus-critical block handling
 948 2014-12-11 14:49:39 <jgarzik> procmsg was a logical separation that paved the way for additional logical separations, while reducing future PR/patch breakage
 949 2014-12-11 14:49:40 iwilcox is now known as iwiicox
 950 2014-12-11 14:49:43 <wumpus> no matter how large or small the file is, that shouldn't be the case
 951 2014-12-11 14:49:48 iwiicox is now known as iwilcox
 952 2014-12-11 14:49:53 <sipa> procmsg is not a logical separation at all, sorry
 953 2014-12-11 14:50:05 <sipa> it just moves stuff to another file, without separating
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 955 2014-12-11 14:50:52 <sipa> it may or may not make it easier to do separation later, but imho that's something that needs to be done for every group of messages independently anyway, and moving *everything* to one file does not help with that even
 956 2014-12-11 14:50:53 <jgarzik> disagree.  it also changes calling patterns in a way to opens door to more modularity with less future patch breakage
 957 2014-12-11 14:51:53 <sipa> that changing of calling patterns can be done in main, without huge code movement and for the same benefit
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 959 2014-12-11 14:52:15 * sipa just hates circular dependencies, sorry
 960 2014-12-11 14:52:17 <jgarzik> In the kernel we have massive 50+ patch series that perform step by step transformations that result in true modularity, logical, source code separation... while at the same time, during the transition, aiming for ease of review, low patch breakage.  It is about working with developer bandwidth in the midst of transformation.
 961 2014-12-11 14:52:29 <jgarzik> If we logjam at step 1 we will never be able to clean up this codebase
 962 2014-12-11 14:52:40 <jgarzik> I'm starting to smell "perfect is the enemy of good"
 963 2014-12-11 14:52:45 <sipa> the code movement can be done at any time during the process
 964 2014-12-11 14:52:49 <jgarzik> you will never have a perfect step #1
 965 2014-12-11 14:52:54 <sipa> it's completely independent from everything else (at least in C++)
 966 2014-12-11 14:52:58 <jgarzik> wrong
 967 2014-12-11 14:53:08 <jgarzik> it is not independent of developers and other changes
 968 2014-12-11 14:53:16 <jgarzik> code movement first means less headache later
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 970 2014-12-11 14:53:33 <sipa> meh
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 972 2014-12-11 14:53:56 <wumpus> I think sipa's point is that nothing will remain of procmsg when everything is moved to a separate module, so introducing it as intermediate may not be useful
 973 2014-12-11 14:53:59 <sipa> if you do it after actually disentangling things, you can do it from smaller pieces of a code at a time
 974 2014-12-11 14:54:08 <sipa> right, that's what i mean
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 976 2014-12-11 14:54:36 <jgarzik> The past couple months of code movement has been a bunch of "oops, rebase against, your branch broke again, because of a tiny trickle of things randomly disappearing from where you thought they were"
 977 2014-12-11 14:54:38 <sipa> you don't want one fat do-everything module anyway, so introducing one as an intermediate step is just code movement that needs to be redone later anyway
 978 2014-12-11 14:55:41 <jgarzik> IME the current method leads to slow progress, Waiting For Ideal at the expense of Good, and more patch breakage & rebasing
 979 2014-12-11 14:56:33 <sipa> anyway, i'm very much in favor of splitting up ProcessMessage in smaller pieces (wherever it is located), and I won't NACK a move to a different file either (but i think it has nearly no benefit, and breaks existing patches gratuitously)
 980 2014-12-11 14:56:44 <wumpus> I don't think it makes sense to complain about that, the only codebase that has no changes you have to rebase against once in a while is a dead project
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 983 2014-12-11 14:57:54 <sipa> and i'm actually waiting for 0.10 to be forked off, to work on some of that :)
 984 2014-12-11 14:58:04 <wumpus> well, let's fork off 0.10
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 986 2014-12-11 14:59:36 <jtimon> is there still many pending issues for 0.10?
 987 2014-12-11 14:59:55 <wumpus>  * [new branch]      0.10 -> 0.10
 988 2014-12-11 15:00:02 <sipa> WHIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII
 989 2014-12-11 15:00:19 <wumpus> jtimon: just merged the last one
 990 2014-12-11 15:01:46 <jtimon> did we clang before forking?
 991 2014-12-11 15:01:51 <wumpus> no, we're not going to do that
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 993 2014-12-11 15:02:02 <jtimon> ok, next time
 994 2014-12-11 15:02:05 <wumpus> yes
 995 2014-12-11 15:02:34 <wumpus> too many version differences between versions of clang-format, so people could hardly reproduce each other's results
 996 2014-12-11 15:02:51 <wumpus> hopefully that will stabilize, but not yet
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 998 2014-12-11 15:04:06 <jtimon> yes, it should become less painful as more code gets in with the new style too
 999 2014-12-11 15:07:57 <Luke-Jr> are we tagging yet?
1000 2014-12-11 15:08:12 <wumpus> Luke-Jr: just branching
1001 2014-12-11 15:08:26 <sipa> tagging probably after gitian issues are resolved?
1002 2014-12-11 15:08:48 <wumpus> sipa: yes,let's wait for that
1003 2014-12-11 15:09:42 <wumpus> going to bump master to version 0.10.99
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1007 2014-12-11 15:10:03 <sipa> ack
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1015 2014-12-11 15:19:00 <paveljanik> wumpus: #5461
1016 2014-12-11 15:19:32 coiner has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
1017 2014-12-11 15:19:39 * paveljanik thinks: it would be nice that some robot could translate #1234 to the title of the bug/PR and print it here...
1018 2014-12-11 15:19:54 EasyAt has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
1019 2014-12-11 15:20:06 <paveljanik> #5461: signrawtransaction: validate private key
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1076 2014-12-11 16:11:18 <hearn> does anyone know why gitian build would fail due to inability to resolve hostnames inside the build environment?
1077 2014-12-11 16:11:33 <hearn> build.log says at the bottom:
1078 2014-12-11 16:11:34 <hearn> make: Entering directory `/home/ubuntu/build/bitcoin/depends'
1079 2014-12-11 16:11:34 <hearn> Fetching native_ccache...
1080 2014-12-11 16:11:34 <hearn> wget: unable to resolve host address `samba.org'
1081 2014-12-11 16:11:34 <hearn> wget: unable to resolve host address `bitcoincore.org'
1082 2014-12-11 16:11:34 <hearn> make: *** [/home/ubuntu/build/bitcoin/depends/work/build/i686-pc-linux-gnu/native_ccache/3.1.9-54d4010bcb5/.stamp_fetched] Error 4
1083 2014-12-11 16:11:43 <hearn> however i can resolve these domains just fine in the gitian-build virtualbox vm
1084 2014-12-11 16:12:03 <sipa> hearn: the gitian vm intentionally can't access the network
1085 2014-12-11 16:12:15 <sipa> i think
1086 2014-12-11 16:12:37 <sipa> the problem is that 1) the instructions don't tell you how to fetch sources outside of the VM  2) it doesn't actually work for everything
1087 2014-12-11 16:12:46 <sipa> so that's a blocker for 0.10rc1
1088 2014-12-11 16:16:09 <hearn> oh
1089 2014-12-11 16:16:16 <hearn> so the gitian build process is just broke, right now?
1090 2014-12-11 16:16:33 <sipa> it seems so, yes
1091 2014-12-11 16:16:46 <hearn> ok. i'll wait for it to get fixed before trying again
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1094 2014-12-11 16:17:10 <sipa> you can fetch most sources manually (by running make download in depends/, and then copying to the gitian cache dir), but it doesn't work for a few
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1102 2014-12-11 16:20:10 <wumpus> hearn: yes, is a known issue https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/5428
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1106 2014-12-11 16:24:57 <hearn> cool
1107 2014-12-11 16:25:03 <wumpus> as workaround you could give the build environment access to the internet, although it shouldn't really be required
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1109 2014-12-11 16:25:53 <wumpus> my gitian builder (KVM) has that, so I never noticed this problem
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1114 2014-12-11 16:30:26 <cfields> working on it today, sorry for that
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1125 2014-12-11 16:49:46 <cfields> sipa: btw, my gitian vm accesses the net no problem, so seems it's only broken in some cases
1126 2014-12-11 16:50:03 <cfields> maybe it's a problem with lxc only?
1127 2014-12-11 16:50:19 <sipa> that's possible; i was using lxc
1128 2014-12-11 16:50:51 <wumpus> lxc can also access the net when configured for it
1129 2014-12-11 16:51:01 <sipa> the question is do we want that?
1130 2014-12-11 16:51:39 <wumpus> I think it's a bit of a abstraction failure to require it, though, I'd expect the building to do building
1131 2014-12-11 16:51:39 <cfields> sipa: either way we need a supported way of adding the sources without net access, i'm not arguing that. working on it now
1132 2014-12-11 16:51:56 <sipa> agree
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1136 2014-12-11 16:58:29 <tdlfbx> I was just looking at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trusted_timestamping
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1138 2014-12-11 16:59:34 <tdlfbx> The finance world is generally heavily tied to clocks.  Bills are due at a particular time.  Contracts are enforceable with time constraints.  Has there been much discussion in bitcoin about time constraints?  I'd think the statistical nature and unpredictable block times would be very undesirable for lots of kinds of financial uses.
1139 2014-12-11 17:00:02 <tdlfbx> Bitcoin has gone to great length to eschew the use of clocks entirely.
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1141 2014-12-11 17:01:00 <sipa> bitcoin has a clock, one with ~hours precision, though
1142 2014-12-11 17:01:13 <sipa> how often do you need higher precision?
1143 2014-12-11 17:02:29 <tdlfbx> Well for instance, couldn't bailing-in and bailing-out of sidechains, and using ntimelocks be made much faster?
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1145 2014-12-11 17:03:38 <sipa> if you want fast inter-chain transfers, you need atomic swap, which are very fast as long as someone is offering to trade
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1147 2014-12-11 17:04:30 <tdlfbx> Does that require replace-by-fee?
1148 2014-12-11 17:04:52 <sipa> no
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1150 2014-12-11 17:05:28 <sipa> it means you're not actually transferring coins from one side to the other, just doing one transaction on each side
1151 2014-12-11 17:05:40 <sipa> but i'm not sure why you bring this up, or what your point is
1152 2014-12-11 17:06:21 <tdlfbx> I'm just generally surprised that a financial system with a horrible clock is not having more discussion about its horrible clock.
1153 2014-12-11 17:06:30 <tdlfbx> Just trying to wrap my head around why that might be okay.  Or not.
1154 2014-12-11 17:06:41 <sipa> i think you have to see it in perspective
1155 2014-12-11 17:06:52 <sipa> pretty much all of the financial system works in the order of days
1156 2014-12-11 17:07:34 <tdlfbx> If you're in the US.  SWIFT/SEPA is pretty much instant.
1157 2014-12-11 17:07:49 <tdlfbx> The US is a horrible backwater of ancient financial systems though.
1158 2014-12-11 17:08:03 <sipa> SWIFT/SEPA is next business day at best
1159 2014-12-11 17:08:23 <tdlfbx> In my opinion, waiting "days" to know that you've spent money (or not) is not acceptable in the 21st century.
1160 2014-12-11 17:08:40 <tdlfbx> Burn ACH, burn.
1161 2014-12-11 17:08:44 <sipa> bitcoin is instant; you can instantly spend money you received
1162 2014-12-11 17:08:53 <sipa> it's only the confirmation that takes time
1163 2014-12-11 17:08:55 <tdlfbx> No you can spend it an hour later.
1164 2014-12-11 17:09:01 <sipa> which you need if you're not trusting the receiver
1165 2014-12-11 17:09:04 <tdlfbx> Or two.  ;-)
1166 2014-12-11 17:09:14 <wumpus> please move discussion about what is acceptable or not to #bitcoin
1167 2014-12-11 17:09:30 <wumpus> we try to build actual software here, not philosophize
1168 2014-12-11 17:10:10 <tdlfbx> #bitcoin is full of idiots.  Sorry wumpus.
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1224 2014-12-11 18:22:07 <huma_> sipa: phew. blockchain is up to date. thank you (and others) for your help.
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1236 2014-12-11 18:50:02 <gavinandresen> I haven’t been keeping track… does current git HEAD use libsecp256k1 for verification? If not, how do I turn that on?
1237 2014-12-11 18:50:45 <sipa> gavinandresen: it does not
1238 2014-12-11 18:50:47 <wumpus> gavinandresen: it doesn't, not sure how to turn it on either
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1242 2014-12-11 18:51:25 <sipa> compiling with USE_SECP256K1 may work, but i think it's very unlikely that will work
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1246 2014-12-11 18:58:28 <wumpus> doesn't seem to work
1247 2014-12-11 18:59:09 <wumpus> "error: ‘secp256k1_ecdsa_pubkey_verify’ was not declared in this scope" in pubkey.cpp, at least
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1251 2014-12-11 19:00:01 <gavinandresen> wumpus sipa: same error for me, looks like code rot....
1252 2014-12-11 19:00:07 <wumpus> interface drift
1253 2014-12-11 19:00:10 <wumpus> or that
1254 2014-12-11 19:00:16 <sipa> we should just remove that secp256k1 verification code
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1256 2014-12-11 19:00:37 <gavinandresen> not critical to fix, I’m just doing some benchmarking and was curious to test
1257 2014-12-11 19:00:48 <sipa> should be trivial to fix for just testing
1258 2014-12-11 19:01:04 <sipa> but it's silly to keep code in master around and trying to rebase it without anything exercising it
1259 2014-12-11 19:01:28 <gavinandresen> clang tells me:  use of undeclared identifier 'secp256k1_ecdsa_pubkey_verify'; did you mean 'secp256k1_ec_pubkey_verify'?
1260 2014-12-11 19:01:32 <gavinandresen> Is that what I mean?
1261 2014-12-11 19:01:35 <sipa> it is
1262 2014-12-11 19:01:49 <sipa> clang is smart
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1270 2014-12-11 19:12:13 <Luke-Jr> ☺
1271 2014-12-11 19:12:40 <Luke-Jr> it would be nice if there was an unsupported-but-compiles-and-works way to do that
1272 2014-12-11 19:15:00 <wumpus> I'd also prefer fixing the code to removing it again
1273 2014-12-11 19:15:08 <felipelalli> what are the main news on 0.10?
1274 2014-12-11 19:15:56 <wumpus> I wouldn't go as far as having an actual configure switch to enable it, but an obscure -DSOMETHING where it's clear that it's extremely experimental would be fine
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1286 2014-12-11 19:49:00 <nelisky> s
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1288 2014-12-11 19:52:04 <wumpus> cfields: I just realize that most of the people that reach the lxc-without-network problem are probably following https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/master/doc/gitian-building.md ; it used to work, but it may be that it no longer properly sets up network within lxc for newer debian versions
1289 2014-12-11 19:52:36 <cfields> wumpus: thanks, i'll look into that as well
1290 2014-12-11 19:53:44 <cfields> wumpus: i agree that offline downloading should work for sure, but it'd be nice to assume that downloading will work for the common case. so imo it's worth tracking down/fixing that issue.
1291 2014-12-11 19:54:18 <cfields> getting ready to push up fixes for the offline case, then i'll have a look there.
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1324 2014-12-11 20:44:40 <StephenM347> I've been working through the bitcoin code base, trying to understand it, and I have a few questions. Anyone have a sec to help me out?
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1328 2014-12-11 20:50:42 <BlueMatt> rusty: havent had a chance to look, and it'll probably be a few days before I can, feel free to set something up yourself, otherwise I'll dig into it a bit later
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1330 2014-12-11 20:55:38 <rubensayshi> StephenM347, you're best off just asking and most of the time you'll get a reply ;-)
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1333 2014-12-11 21:00:48 <StephenM347> @rubensayshi, thanks. Well, the first question I have is that when a node receives a new block, it calls ProcessBlockI() but that doesn't check the inputs with CheckInputs. So what is the flow here, how do the inputs get checked when a new block comes in?
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1339 2014-12-11 21:10:13 <lechuga_> StephenM347: ConnectBlock will check the inputs
1340 2014-12-11 21:11:04 <lechuga_> by way of ActivateBestChain
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1342 2014-12-11 21:13:10 <StephenM347> lechuga, but ConnectBlock() isn't called from ProcessBlock(), so where is it called from when a peer gives a new block?
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1345 2014-12-11 21:14:22 <lechuga_> ProcessNewBlock
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1347 2014-12-11 21:16:04 <lechuga_> do you have an IDE or ctags?
1348 2014-12-11 21:16:23 <lechuga_> might make life easier for you
1349 2014-12-11 21:16:41 <StephenM347> Oh, so is it ProcesBlock() -> AcceptBlock() -> AddToBlockIndex() -> ActivateBestChain()  -> ConnectTip() ?
1350 2014-12-11 21:16:54 <StephenM347> I don't have either of those, just text editor
1351 2014-12-11 21:17:27 <lechuga_> people r going to be annoyed at us walking through callstacks lets take this offline
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1375 2014-12-11 21:43:09 <michagogo> 07:56:17 <gmaxwell> op_null: you could go one further and write a patch that let you disable all transaction transmission, which we were musing about being very useful. e.g. lets you use the wallet like normal but then submit your transactions over some more private method.
1376 2014-12-11 21:43:25 <michagogo> I did that once when I wanted to mine a huge-fee transaction on testnet, just for fun
1377 2014-12-11 21:43:32 pooler_ has joined
1378 2014-12-11 21:43:40 <michagogo> It was just a "return" or something like that
1379 2014-12-11 21:44:08 <michagogo> I remember being very surprised that I had (sort of) managed to write a line of c++ :P
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1402 2014-12-11 22:18:22 <michagogo> ccache ftw \o/
1403 2014-12-11 22:18:25 <michagogo> cache hit (direct)                   102
1404 2014-12-11 22:18:25 <michagogo> cache hit (preprocessed)               0
1405 2014-12-11 22:18:25 <michagogo> cache miss                            88
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1428 2014-12-11 22:56:30 notplato has joined
1429 2014-12-11 22:56:38 <notplato> ;;bcauth notplato
1430 2014-12-11 22:56:38 <gribble> Request successful for user notplato, hostmask notplato!ad3a5ff8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.58.95.248. Your challenge string is: freenode:#bitcoin-otc:edadbb3abd5cb83c3c2012695b4ecdd3950916ec6e86b60b95557ddd
1431 2014-12-11 22:57:22 koeppelm_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1432 2014-12-11 22:57:24 <notplato> ;;bcauth H8irH+HdhMgzoa2pCcJKtbi02nhZdpE7bqb2U5NuWbta+RjO0XjQahJR8/kPTxMsgGCgHF48vp1UktBkUCO3JJo=
1433 2014-12-11 22:57:24 <gribble> Error: This nick is not registered. Please register.
1434 2014-12-11 22:57:49 koeppelmann has joined
1435 2014-12-11 22:59:25 <notplato> ;;ns register CHpRBZQkey dscotese@litmocracy.com
1436 2014-12-11 22:59:25 <gribble> Error: "ns" is not a valid command.
1437 2014-12-11 22:59:42 hearn has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
1438 2014-12-11 23:00:09 <notplato> ;;bcauth notplato H8irH+HdhMgzoa2pCcJKtbi02nhZdpE7bqb2U5NuWbta+RjO0XjQahJR8/kPTxMsgGCgHF48vp1UktBkUCO3JJo=
1439 2014-12-11 23:00:09 <gribble> (bcauth <nick>) -- Initiate authentication for user <nick>. You must have registered with the bot with a bitcoin address for this to work. You will be given a random passphrase to sign with your address, and submit to the bot with the 'bcverify' command. Your passphrase will expire within 10 minutes.
1440 2014-12-11 23:00:28 <arubi> notplato, are you aware of what you're doing on a public channel?
1441 2014-12-11 23:00:47 <notplato> Thanks, I thought commands were hidden.
1442 2014-12-11 23:01:06 <helo> it's offtopic, but perfectly safe
1443 2014-12-11 23:01:11 ryanxcharles has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1444 2014-12-11 23:01:29 <arubi> helo, his email is right there
1445 2014-12-11 23:02:08 <helo> shrug
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1447 2014-12-11 23:07:48 <notplato> Has anyone discussed using maidsafe/bittorrent algorithms to spread the full blockchain over many nodes so that there are many copies and only miners need a full copy (and can get it quickly)?
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1450 2014-12-11 23:08:38 <helo> notplato: #bitcoin for non-development stuff please
1451 2014-12-11 23:10:03 <notplato> Isn't solving the storage problem part of development?
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1454 2014-12-11 23:10:45 <helo> short answer is "yes, it already has been done"
1455 2014-12-11 23:11:38 Raziel has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
1456 2014-12-11 23:12:05 <helo> see https://bitcoin.org/bin/blockchain/bootstrap.dat.torrent
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1473 2014-12-11 23:41:56 <cfields> sipa: opposed to disabling bench by default for secp256k1 ?
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1476 2014-12-11 23:43:58 <XPLZ> https://cryptospell.com/ is giving out bitcoin in the chat room!
1477 2014-12-11 23:44:18 GM0127 has joined
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1479 2014-12-11 23:44:42 <lewellyn> that doesn't come across as at all spammy :P
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1483 2014-12-11 23:44:54 <XPLZ> lewellyn i just launched :D
1484 2014-12-11 23:45:03 <XPLZ> I have to shout it out at least one time hehe :D
1485 2014-12-11 23:45:12 <XPLZ> Join me i send you some BTC :D
1486 2014-12-11 23:45:38 won9 has joined
1487 2014-12-11 23:45:40 * lewellyn bets "some BTC" means "BTC with lots of zeros after a decimal" :P
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1489 2014-12-11 23:45:52 <XPLZ> like mBTC
1490 2014-12-11 23:46:00 <cfields> XPLZ: this is a dev channel. Please take that elsewhere.
1491 2014-12-11 23:46:12 <XPLZ> but this is my development
1492 2014-12-11 23:46:16 <XPLZ> or does that not count maybe?
1493 2014-12-11 23:47:19 <cfields> XPLZ: see topic. bitcoin network and core
1494 2014-12-11 23:47:29 <lewellyn> XPLZ: how is whatever you're doing (i didn't click the link) improve the bitcoin network or reference software?
1495 2014-12-11 23:47:46 <XPLZ> Sorry i will not write about this more
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1497 2014-12-11 23:48:43 <lewellyn> actually, it might be perfectly on-topic, if you're somehow affecting the network. (postively or negatively)
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