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29 2014-12-13 00:46:11 <isis> gmaxwell: using tor "nextgen" (or whatever they're going to be called) HSes to authenticate bitcoin payment requests sounds like an excellent idea
30 2014-12-13 00:47:11 <isis> gmaxwell: and, as far as your offer to help out with the HS work, i think we'd all be super happy to have your help
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46 2014-12-13 01:02:38 <gmaxwell> isis: well in respect to nextgen, it seemed like no progress was happening. I commented some one the design. (e.g. I think it's important that the scheme support delegation .. which would also be useful for using the same addresses to authenticate payment requests: you don't really want to have your onion master keys always online where they're also being used to sign payment requests).
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53 2014-12-13 01:13:32 <isis> gmaxwell: i agree entirely. the current proposol for nextgen HSes does include "offline onion keys". https://gitweb.torproject.org/torspec.git/tree/proposals/224-rend-spec-ng.txt#n465
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55 2014-12-13 01:14:13 <isis> gmaxwell: unfortunately, the current design is more akin to chaumian token generation than a truly delegatable anonymous credential scheme (e.g. those which camenisch and lysyanskaya have proposed, based on groth-sahai proofs)
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57 2014-12-13 01:15:41 <isis> so, the "unfortunate" part is mainly due to the operator of the HS being required to bring the key online and generate a new pile of blinded tokens
58 2014-12-13 01:16:08 <gmaxwell> Yes, well ... doesn't invoke pairing crypto is also an okay property to have.
59 2014-12-13 01:17:06 <isis> yes, for ease of implementation.
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62 2014-12-13 01:18:44 <gmaxwell> I think that having to periodically spin up the offline key isn't so terrible, at least it bounds a compromise. So the interesting question would be how to handle a payment request in this framework. It could be as simple as a certificate style delegation where the master key, signs message that includes critiera like validity dates even bitcoin amounts, and an additional public key.
63 2014-12-13 01:18:52 <isis> i am starting to suspect, however, after searching for the past several years for an anonymous authentication scheme without pairings, that there isn't one, and that it might be in some way fundamentally impossible. :/
64 2014-12-13 01:21:42 <isis> the idea to place bounds on times and amounts is interesting⦠perhaps the old-fashioned crypto way is useful despite its hassle.
65 2014-12-13 01:22:45 <gmaxwell> isis: I beleive it's impossible without pairings.
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67 2014-12-13 01:23:41 <gmaxwell> (For the same reason non-pairing compact non-interactive forward secrecy doesn't work. ... I don't have a proof of this, though certantly lots of people have battered themselves against similar problems for some time now)
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95 2014-12-13 01:58:02 <petertodd> isis: re old-fashioned crypto, reminds me of a discussion I had yesterday w/ a professor re: bip32 where I pointed out that HD derivation was purely a space optimizaiton over just generating a few KB/MB worth of keys in advance
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149 2014-12-13 03:09:14 <akaiiro> hey guys. i'm building and endpoint to catch Change.com transaction notifications. know about a writing on validating transaction hashes and address?
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318 2014-12-13 13:57:54 <mardokwin> hello
319 2014-12-13 13:57:59 <mardokwin> !list
320 2014-12-13 13:57:59 <gribble> Admin, Alias, Anonymous, AutoMode, BadWords, BitcoinData, Channel, ChannelLogger, ChannelStats, Conditional, Config, Debug, Dict, Dunno, Factoids, Filter, Format, GPG, Games, Gatekeeper, Google, Herald, Internet, Later, Market, Math, MessageParser, Misc, Network, OTCOrderBook, Owner, Plugin, RSS, RatingSystem, Reply, Scheduler, Seen, Services, Status, String, Time, Topic, URL, Unix, User, (1 more message)
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441 2014-12-13 17:24:08 <sipa> jtimon, gmaxwell: (3) implemented in https://github.com/bitcoin/secp256k1/pull/163
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454 2014-12-13 17:44:52 <jtimon> looks good, finally you implemented 2 with 3 as default
455 2014-12-13 17:45:23 <sipa> yup, it's the solution i like the most - except for the code duplication
456 2014-12-13 17:45:35 <sipa> but i was surprised that it only added 4 kb of executable code
457 2014-12-13 17:45:48 <jtimon> couldn't bitcoin use the hash functions there?
458 2014-12-13 17:46:26 <sipa> it could; but i'm not sure i like exposing the functions
459 2014-12-13 17:47:14 <jtimon> I see, but well it's either that or code duplication
460 2014-12-13 17:47:22 <sipa> indeed
461 2014-12-13 17:47:29 <sipa> or abstracting them in yet another library
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463 2014-12-13 17:48:42 <jtimon> yep, althou maybe too small of a library
464 2014-12-13 17:49:10 <sipa> libsecp256k1 is now around 75 kb of object code, which is already tiny
465 2014-12-13 17:50:19 <sipa> ... and suddenly i remember my first programming language (gwbasic) which had a 75 kb interpreter...
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505 2014-12-13 18:47:03 <lechuga_> wow sipa
506 2014-12-13 18:47:04 <lechuga_> nice
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580 2014-12-13 20:45:43 <akaiiro> guys, are io addresses always 34 characters long and transactions hashes 64 characters long?
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582 2014-12-13 20:47:34 <Luke-Jr> akaiiro: io addresses? Bitcoin addresses only receive, not send, so it's input-only, not input-output..
583 2014-12-13 20:47:40 <Luke-Jr> akaiiro: and no, they're not always 34 characters
584 2014-12-13 20:47:53 <Luke-Jr> hashes are always 256 bits (32 octets)
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592 2014-12-13 21:05:11 <b_lumenkraft> http://bitcoin.sipa.be is down :( http://www.downforeveryoneorjustme.com/http://bitcoin.sipa.be
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