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 22 2014-12-21 00:45:22 <kanzure> jonasschnelli: i'm just nitpicking here, but your branch has extra stray whitespace
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 24 2014-12-21 00:46:42 <gmaxwell> if you adjust your git settings you can make git diff colorized and it will show addition of stray whitespace.
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 26 2014-12-21 00:50:13 <kanzure> // remove signature if we used the signing only for the fee calculation
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 43 2014-12-21 01:30:22 <kanzure> "for example, when specifying the the path of the dependency" doc/build* somewhere
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 78 2014-12-21 03:12:32 <kanzure> so i am adding watchonly support to jonasschnelli's fundrawtransaction branch
 79 2014-12-21 03:12:37 <kanzure> so far transactions are looking correct
 80 2014-12-21 03:13:08 <kanzure> with the exception of fees. apparently CreateTransaction uses SignSignature to calculate fees?
 81 2014-12-21 03:14:14 <phantomcircuit> kanzure, you need to sign the transaction to get the ultimate length of the transaction for calculating the fees
 82 2014-12-21 03:14:32 <phantomcircuit> that probably should be replaced with an estimation function but well that's more complex
 83 2014-12-21 03:14:49 <phantomcircuit> (potentially more complex, it should actually end up being simpler...)
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 85 2014-12-21 03:15:05 <kanzure> right.. so.. i think that technically this "should" probably still sign, because CreateTransaction is probably used to create signed transactions anyway
 86 2014-12-21 03:15:42 <kanzure> so i should not disable SignSignature when a watchonly input is present, but i should definitely skip attempting to sign a watchonly, and i should attempt to make fee calculation still happen?
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 89 2014-12-21 03:16:18 <phantomcircuit> kanzure, maybe you get to change the fee estimation code to estimate the length of the signatures :/
 90 2014-12-21 03:17:07 <kanzure> my primary concern is about making the behavior of CreateTransaction more convoluted
 91 2014-12-21 03:17:30 <kanzure> as a secondary concern the transaction fee can be calculated another way (the user calling "fundrawtransaction" can just create another output with the amount he thinks is okay, and then deletes that output before signing)
 92 2014-12-21 03:18:18 <kanzure> er, i mean, i am attempting to not make CreateTransaction more convoluted ("when watchonly is enabled, no signatures happen" would definitely violate principle of least surprise)
 93 2014-12-21 03:21:13 <phantomcircuit> kanzure, right which is why im suggesting you change the fee code (in  separate pr) to estimate the signature lengths
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 95 2014-12-21 03:25:44 <kanzure> i wonder if fundrawtransaction should also fund fees on an otherwise fully-funded transaction
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 98 2014-12-21 03:35:11 <Luke-Jr> kanzure: that's a good idea
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100 2014-12-21 03:37:02 <phantomcircuit> sipa, any opinion on changing the fee estimation stuff around signature lengths?
101 2014-12-21 03:37:13 <phantomcircuit> afaict there isn't a strong reason for actually signing
102 2014-12-21 03:37:24 <phantomcircuit> you'll just be off by a few bytes
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104 2014-12-21 03:40:38 <Luke-Jr> phantomcircuit: I am not sipa, but I doubt anyone would object to estimating the signature sizes there.
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106 2014-12-21 03:44:30 <BlueMatt> spend hours tweaking things to get memory usage <3gb for travis.....they launch a new intrastructure w/ 4gb memory available....http://blog.travis-ci.com/2014-12-17-faster-builds-with-container-based-infrastructure/
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109 2014-12-21 03:50:01 <phantomcircuit> http://blog.travis-ci.com/2014-12-17-faster-builds-with-container-based-infrastructure/
110 2014-12-21 03:50:12 <phantomcircuit> grumble grumble unclocikable links grumble
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118 2014-12-21 04:07:06 <kanzure> GetMinimumFee is returning 199 on my 199 BTC watchonly transaction :|
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122 2014-12-21 04:07:20 <Luke-Jr> 199 BTC or 199 amount?
123 2014-12-21 04:07:38 <kanzure> nFeeNeeded is 199
124 2014-12-21 04:07:47 <kanzure> nFeeRet gets set to nFeeNeeded
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128 2014-12-21 04:16:44 <kanzure> hmm it's because nFeeNeeded = minTxFee.GetFee(nTxBytes)
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132 2014-12-21 04:18:27 <kanzure> ah nevermind. i suppose things are working as anticipated (and the fee was 119 satoshi, not 199 BTC nor 199 satoshi).
133 2014-12-21 04:18:29 <Luke-Jr> kanzure: are you sure it's wrong?
134 2014-12-21 04:18:38 <Luke-Jr> ;)
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136 2014-12-21 04:19:04 <gmaxwell> kanzure: yea, createtransaction shouldn't do that, thats moronic. :P
137 2014-12-21 04:20:02 <kanzure> also what's the naming convention on CreateTransaction params? enableWatchOnly, allowWatchOnly, useWatchOnly, alsoUseWatchOnly...?
138 2014-12-21 04:20:11 <gmaxwell> though it's a little tricky for watching, since you don't actually know the scriptpubkey details. :(
139 2014-12-21 04:20:57 <kanzure> "useWatchOnly" is ambiguous (even if watchonly is a known feature...)
140 2014-12-21 04:21:01 <gmaxwell> What it should just be doing is looking wat the pubkey and from that deciding the maximum size of the signature and using that. Unfortunately for a watching you can only make a guess.
141 2014-12-21 04:21:11 <gmaxwell> kanzure: includewatching
142 2014-12-21 04:21:12 <gmaxwell> ?
143 2014-12-21 04:21:39 <kanzure> includeWatching to match other naming mistakes, and you have a deal
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158 2014-12-21 05:18:39 <phantomcircuit> gmaxwell, the maximum size is only going to be off by what... 1 byte per signature from the average?
159 2014-12-21 05:18:48 <phantomcircuit> actually maybe less?
160 2014-12-21 05:19:35 <gmaxwell> phantomcircuit: the probablity of small sizes falls off exponentially... in theory you could have an 8 byte signature, but thats very very unlikely.
161 2014-12-21 05:20:08 <gmaxwell> e.g. 1/256 are at least one byte shorter, 1/65536 are at least two bytes shorter, etc.
162 2014-12-21 05:21:05 <phantomcircuit> so using the maximum size on average wont be an expensive decision, but might at random cost something
163 2014-12-21 05:21:11 <phantomcircuit> seems reasonable
164 2014-12-21 05:22:16 <phantomcircuit> i feel like this has been discussed before...
165 2014-12-21 05:24:03 <gmaxwell> it's very unlikely to be an overestimate by more than a couple bytes.
166 2014-12-21 05:24:22 <gmaxwell> but this isn't so easy for eaching wallets as you don't know if the pubkey is compressed / what the redeemscript is.
167 2014-12-21 05:24:29 <gmaxwell> er watching*
168 2014-12-21 05:25:13 <phantomcircuit> are there watch only things which aren't just pubkeyhash ?
169 2014-12-21 05:25:40 <gmaxwell> IIRC you can watch any address you like.
170 2014-12-21 05:25:48 <gmaxwell> probably the thing to do is just assume that all 1* are compressed, and its your own problem if you use it with an uncompressed key (why?!) ... multisig is harder.
171 2014-12-21 05:26:12 <gmaxwell> assuming everyhing is 20 of 20 would be super wasteful, but assuming that things are 2 of 3 would result in big problems for 20 of 20.
172 2014-12-21 05:26:48 <phantomcircuit> hmm
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174 2014-12-21 05:27:15 <kanzure> gmaxwell: any hints on how i can trick fundrawtransaction into preferring non-watchonlys when they are available? that seems like a reasonable default that i should attempt to implement?
175 2014-12-21 05:27:46 <gmaxwell> run without watchings, and if you're successful stop.
176 2014-12-21 05:27:52 <phantomcircuit> i guess for now maybe just explode if someone tries to estimate fees in a transaction with watch only multisig
177 2014-12-21 05:28:15 <gmaxwell> phantomcircuit: I guess we should have a way for watching to import a redeemscript. :-/ then those would be fine.
178 2014-12-21 05:28:16 <kanzure> gmaxwell: is there any sort of performance penalty to running the whole function twice that i should be worrying about?
179 2014-12-21 05:28:39 <gmaxwell> kanzure: esp if the signing is out of the inner loop it will be so much faster that it won't matter.
180 2014-12-21 05:28:40 <phantomcircuit> lol that sounds like real work
181 2014-12-21 05:29:06 <phantomcircuit> where's sipa...
182 2014-12-21 05:29:07 <gmaxwell> kanzure: I expect that most times it will work without watching OR you'll have no non-watching at all, in which case the first attempt is fast.
183 2014-12-21 05:29:08 <phantomcircuit> :)
184 2014-12-21 05:29:22 <kanzure> ah good point
185 2014-12-21 05:30:04 <gmaxwell> kanzure: right now coin selection can be kinda slow but virtually all that is from cases where it iterates over signing many times. (which is about the dumbest thing ever.)
186 2014-12-21 05:30:45 <phantomcircuit> well... it can also be slow in specific worst case utxo sets
187 2014-12-21 05:30:46 <kanzure> maybe it was a good idea at the time..... </optimism>
188 2014-12-21 05:31:05 <kanzure> ideally you can blame user error on entering into local minima on utxo sets :)
189 2014-12-21 05:32:53 <kanzure> gmaxwell: should the retry be in rpcrawtransaction.cpp's fundrawtransaction, or in CWallet::FundTransaction in wallet.cpp?
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192 2014-12-21 05:34:04 <gmaxwell> kanzure: it was just a good idea when you regarded signing as a mysterious black box.
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195 2014-12-21 05:34:55 <gmaxwell> But it's not so mysterious, the signature encodes two 256 big numbers, the encoding method has explicit lengths and will omit leading zeros. sooo.
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227 2014-12-21 07:17:10 <kanzure> is there any reason that importaddress may not work during tests in qa/rpc-tests/  ?
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233 2014-12-21 07:37:28 <kanzure> nevermind
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236 2014-12-21 07:41:04 <kanzure> i am getting an "Insufficient funds" error from CreateTransaction when i have a watchonly-funded transaction
237 2014-12-21 07:41:26 <kanzure> probably it's complaining about insufficient funds to make a good fee?
238 2014-12-21 07:41:52 <kanzure> (watchonlys are all used up in my output amount)
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241 2014-12-21 07:46:01 <kanzure> maybe i should add a flag to CreateTransaction for allow-zero-transaction-fees-when-includeWatching?
242 2014-12-21 07:46:35 <SoCo_cpp> I thought the point of watchonly was that you couldn't make transactions with it.
243 2014-12-21 07:46:47 <kanzure> this is for fundrawtransaction
244 2014-12-21 07:47:00 <kanzure> anyone can create a transaction but only someone with the right key can sign
245 2014-12-21 07:47:15 <kanzure> or rather, only a certain signature is valid
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280 2014-12-21 09:32:12 <jeremias> how safe it is to kill bitcoind, which hangs up when you try to close it?
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283 2014-12-21 09:34:28 <iwilcox> Hangs for how long?  It can take a while to shut down.
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285 2014-12-21 09:40:07 <jeremias> I think now it has been 20 minutes
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287 2014-12-21 09:40:49 <iwilcox> Is it still logging?
288 2014-12-21 09:42:12 <gmaxwell> jeremias: what version are you running?
289 2014-12-21 09:42:26 <jeremias> in the log it says Shutdown: done
290 2014-12-21 09:42:40 <jeremias> 0.9.3
291 2014-12-21 09:42:40 <gmaxwell> uh, then it should actually be shutdown.
292 2014-12-21 09:42:55 <gmaxwell> you sure you're looking at the right host? :)
293 2014-12-21 09:43:05 <gmaxwell> or testnet vs non-testnet?
294 2014-12-21 09:43:23 <jeremias> non-testnet
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299 2014-12-21 09:51:58 <jeremias> well, I killed the process and started it again, no problems
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363 2014-12-21 11:51:19 <moleccc> can a good soul send me some testnet coins to 18oFZ3pi5veZyWbQnmZ945ewBTvUTUxjmL, I want to play with bitsquare
364 2014-12-21 11:51:26 <moleccc> oops
365 2014-12-21 11:51:29 <moleccc> mqR5GLouDY653npDSgpzauJ1zrFkMjQctb
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381 2014-12-21 12:21:57 <paveljanik> anyone with a Retina Mac here? Can you please try adding some watch only address and take a screenshot of Rescanning... window? The progress bar here has some weird "shadows"... http://tmp.janik.cz/Bitcoin/Rescanning_progressbar.png
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386 2014-12-21 12:26:04 <paveljanik> moleccc, go search "bitcoin testnet faucet"
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388 2014-12-21 12:27:25 <fanquake> paveljanik does the progress bar only look like that on 10.10?
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391 2014-12-21 12:28:47 <paveljanik> unfortunately I do not have a possibility to test right now on other systems, sorry
392 2014-12-21 12:29:40 <moleccc> paveljanik thanks, good idea
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394 2014-12-21 12:30:55 <fanquake> paveljanik just curious, saw jonasschnelli also had that progress bar, but I’ve seen nothing like it when building from master
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442 2014-12-21 14:01:04 <GMP> hi, how the hell " Discourage fee sniping with nLockTime #2340 " https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/2340 got merged into master without ON/OFF switch???
443 2014-12-21 14:03:31 n0n0_ has joined
444 2014-12-21 14:04:46 <paveljanik> I'd like implement a RPC method to remove watch-only addresses. Got it working already, but I am searching for a good name for it - is removeaddress ok (as opposite to importaddress)?
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448 2014-12-21 14:10:37 <paveljanik> or should I add an additional argument to importaddress (importaddress "address" ( "label" rescan remove)?)
449 2014-12-21 14:10:38 <wumpus> from what it looks like the only place in the API where anything is deleted is 'addnode remove', which uses the remove word
450 2014-12-21 14:10:42 <paveljanik> looks strange
451 2014-12-21 14:10:50 hmsimha has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
452 2014-12-21 14:10:54 <wumpus> could you remove one of the send* methods to make place for it? :-)
453 2014-12-21 14:11:01 <wumpus> no, just kidding, just add a RPC method
454 2014-12-21 14:11:37 <wumpus> it's good to have simple commands with a simple function, not zillion of optional booleans and subcommands
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457 2014-12-21 14:11:58 <paveljanik> watchonly {add|remove} ... would be nice...
458 2014-12-21 14:12:11 <paveljanik> but I do not want to change the ...
459 2014-12-21 14:12:23 <wumpus> wallet.watchonly.remove / wallet.watchonly.add
460 2014-12-21 14:12:53 benrcole has joined
461 2014-12-21 14:13:06 <paveljanik> namespacing in the preparation of wallet removal? ;-)
462 2014-12-21 14:13:09 <wumpus> yes, don't change the ...
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464 2014-12-21 14:13:15 <wumpus> we have to respect the ...
465 2014-12-21 14:13:19 <wumpus> :D
466 2014-12-21 14:13:34 <paveljanik> ok, it will be removeaddress
467 2014-12-21 14:13:38 <paveljanik> Thank you.
468 2014-12-21 14:13:40 <wumpus> yes
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470 2014-12-21 14:14:11 <petertodd> GMP: "discourage fee sniping" produces valid transactions; services that reject them are broken and are being fixed, rapidly
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473 2014-12-21 14:14:45 <paveljanik> wasn't gmp disabled a few days ago, BTW? ;-)
474 2014-12-21 14:14:54 <paveljanik> sorry
475 2014-12-21 14:14:55 <wumpus> I don't think he means gmp gmp
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480 2014-12-21 14:15:56 <wumpus> petertodd: who was rejecting them?
481 2014-12-21 14:16:01 <petertodd> wumpus: coinbase
482 2014-12-21 14:16:21 <petertodd> wumpus: which is annoying because I told them about this about a year ago...
483 2014-12-21 14:16:24 <wumpus> interesting
484 2014-12-21 14:16:27 <GMP> petertodd: my typical bitcoin-qt usage scenario was:  boot offline, send some tx,..... update blockchain. revealing my block height compromising my identity and everyone around me
485 2014-12-21 14:16:49 <petertodd> GMP: that's fine - the discourage fee sniping patch still produces valid transactions in that case
486 2014-12-21 14:17:19 <petertodd> GMP: now if you mean block height as metadata, that's another issue, but highly niche
487 2014-12-21 14:17:22 moa_ has quit (Quit: Page closed)
488 2014-12-21 14:17:39 <petertodd> GMP: if it's a sufficient problem for you, I'd suggest you make a pull-req for a cmd-line switch
489 2014-12-21 14:17:49 <wumpus> block height as metadata is interesting
490 2014-12-21 14:17:59 <wumpus> there won't be that many nodes with your exact block height
491 2014-12-21 14:18:04 <petertodd> wumpus: I did point it out months ago... hell, maybe nearly a year ago
492 2014-12-21 14:18:33 <wumpus> reasons like that is that I was afraid to merge it
493 2014-12-21 14:18:34 <petertodd> that's why the pull-req delibrately picks weird nLockTime's some of the time
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495 2014-12-21 14:18:52 <petertodd> 1/10th probability of anywhere in the last 100 blocks
496 2014-12-21 14:18:53 <wumpus> is why*
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498 2014-12-21 14:20:13 <petertodd> wumpus: note my NACK here on my own pull-req: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/2340#issuecomment-35689059
499 2014-12-21 14:20:36 <wumpus> you don't directly reveal your current block height to other users, but they can make conclusions based on what you request
500 2014-12-21 14:20:59 <wumpus> oh you do but only on new connections
501 2014-12-21 14:21:23 <wumpus> petertodd: so, revert?
502 2014-12-21 14:21:39 <petertodd> wumpus: well note further down my ACK on my own pull-req :)
503 2014-12-21 14:22:01 <btcdrak> haha wumpus he's trolling :roll: ACKs later on https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/2340#issuecomment-35703677
504 2014-12-21 14:22:15 <petertodd> wumpus: it's a change with some positives, and some potential negatives - hopefully the randomization made the positives outweigh the negatives
505 2014-12-21 14:22:28 <petertodd> btcdrak: yeah, gmaxwell kept bugging me about it :)
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507 2014-12-21 14:22:36 <wumpus> I've never seen the point of it in the first place, but gmaxwell sipa jgarzik and otherw wanted it so
508 2014-12-21 14:22:48 <petertodd> keep in mind we already leak a lot of information in a variety of other ways
509 2014-12-21 14:22:50 <wumpus> so I was suckered into merging it
510 2014-12-21 14:23:22 <wumpus> petertodd: in transactions?
511 2014-12-21 14:24:09 <petertodd> wumpus: yeah, you implicitly leak when they were created 90% of the time just by where they come from, and you leak that they come from bitcoin core by a whole variety of bitcoin core specific tendencies
512 2014-12-21 14:24:26 <petertodd> s/where they/when they are published/
513 2014-12-21 14:24:39 <wumpus> I mean there is discussion of separating the broadcasting of transactions from the node functionality, but that makes no sense anymore when all kinds of metadata links them to your node anyway
514 2014-12-21 14:25:42 <petertodd> well the attack would be for someone to sybil your node to get you on a block height different from others - that's already dangerous from a privacy perspective
515 2014-12-21 14:25:56 <wumpus> but what if you're already behind, ie catching up
516 2014-12-21 14:26:33 <wumpus> do we use our true synced block height, or the headers-only height?
517 2014-12-21 14:26:41 <petertodd> sure, but that's pretty rare, is covered by the fact that other nodes produce nLockTime's that look like what you're doing too
518 2014-12-21 14:26:47 <petertodd> s/nodes/wallets/
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520 2014-12-21 14:27:10 <petertodd> with the randomization 1/10 transactions look like they're up to 100 blocks back - that number can easily be increased
521 2014-12-21 14:27:45 <wumpus> why not always randomize?
522 2014-12-21 14:27:53 <azeteki> is there a design document/protocol for updating the bitcoin.org developers' guide to track pull reqs? i'm assuming that it tracks latest release rather than master, so there's a fair amount of time to deal with that
523 2014-12-21 14:28:04 <petertodd> wumpus: well, if you always randomize the underlying purpose of the PR is defeated
524 2014-12-21 14:28:38 <harding> azeteki: I help maintain the docs, and I'm in the process of updating it for 0.10.
525 2014-12-21 14:29:04 <wumpus> petertodd: if you always randomize that much, sure
526 2014-12-21 14:29:32 <petertodd> wumpus: question is are > 10% of wallet's out of sync? I kinda doubt it
527 2014-12-21 14:29:40 <wumpus> petertodd: but what if you'd always nudge it just a few blocks randomly
528 2014-12-21 14:29:48 <harding> azeteki: I don't mind mentioning new features that have been merged in master, but I'm hesitant to mention stuff that hasn't been merged unless its a major change (such as BIP62).
529 2014-12-21 14:30:04 <petertodd> wumpus: well, to work well you really want every transaction with an nLockTime such that even a 1-block reorg doesn't work
530 2014-12-21 14:30:16 <wumpus> petertodd: we generally recommend not sending transactions with a non-synced wallet
531 2014-12-21 14:30:22 <petertodd> wumpus: there you go
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533 2014-12-21 14:30:31 <wumpus> petertodd: as the fee estimation will be off, as well as priority computation
534 2014-12-21 14:30:47 <petertodd> yup, and fee estimation itself is a big privacy issue
535 2014-12-21 14:30:48 <harding> azeteki: as for docs about the docs, we have the README.md in bitcoin/bitcoin.org and the style guide and todo list on the bitcoin/bitcoin.org GitHub wiki.
536 2014-12-21 14:31:00 <wumpus> petertodd: so maybe we just need a bigger warning...
537 2014-12-21 14:31:04 <petertodd> wumpus: I'll bet you we'll see a paper or two before long on fingerprinting nodes via fee estimates...
538 2014-12-21 14:31:34 <wumpus> petertodd: wouldn't you need to be put on a fork for that?
539 2014-12-21 14:31:45 <petertodd> wumpus: no, fee estimates are based on mempool data, not blockchain data
540 2014-12-21 14:31:53 <wumpus> petertodd: right
541 2014-12-21 14:32:01 <sipa> wumpus:, petertodd: my reasoning is indeed that bitcoin core'as transactions are already distingushable, so in that case we better start with good practices, and hope that other wallets copy them
542 2014-12-21 14:32:12 <btcdrak> ^
543 2014-12-21 14:32:17 <azeteki> harding: thank you
544 2014-12-21 14:32:34 <petertodd> sipa: and frankly we're not sure yet what good practices actually are - the only stuff I have any confidence in is things like DarkWallet where you have a uniform user group doing coinjoin mixing
545 2014-12-21 14:32:38 <wumpus> sipa: well, the problem above was not that the transactions are recognizable as being from bitcoin core
546 2014-12-21 14:32:55 <sipa> ah
547 2014-12-21 14:32:56 <harding> azeteki: there's also a docs mailing list linked from one of the first paragraphs of the docs if you have any questions and I'm not here. :-)
548 2014-12-21 14:33:01 <wumpus> sipa: just that you're leaking your current height, which may be identifying if you're not up to date
549 2014-12-21 14:33:12 <sipa> hmm
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552 2014-12-21 14:33:47 <petertodd> though current height can identity you in other ways, for instance via dust
553 2014-12-21 14:33:49 <wumpus> sipa: there was talk about separating transaction submission logic from the node functionality, but that makes little sense if you can correlate the transactions to a node anyhow
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556 2014-12-21 14:34:30 <azeteki> harding: mainly what i'm wondering about is the process for submitting a pull request to bitcoin core. i.e. it seems like a sensible/nice thing to do is to prepare a change to the docs if the pull req is accepted and submit that some time before the release hits. just to avoid the dev guide falling out of date and offloading the task to someone else
557 2014-12-21 14:35:20 <azeteki> does that make sense or am I waffling? :)
558 2014-12-21 14:35:25 <wumpus> petertodd: via dust/
559 2014-12-21 14:35:38 <petertodd> wumpus: ?
560 2014-12-21 14:35:49 <wumpus> petertodd: that was supposed to be a question
561 2014-12-21 14:36:13 <petertodd> wumpus: ah, as in, if you're behind, you won't even know some dust exists, and thus won't spend it
562 2014-12-21 14:36:15 <harding> azeteki: yeah, that'd be great.  Best thing to do might be to add it to the todo list and say "document core pull #1234, adds such-and-such feature, @azeteki will document here when merged in core".  Then when it gets merged, you write the docs.
563 2014-12-21 14:36:28 <wumpus> petertodd: well you may always decide not to spend it
564 2014-12-21 14:36:48 <petertodd> wumpus: just like you may not always decide to have nLockTime set to the current height :)
565 2014-12-21 14:37:14 <petertodd> wumpus: anyway, I suspect we just don't know for sure, and we'll find out as the academics start publishing papers on this - can always turn this off later
566 2014-12-21 14:37:18 <wumpus> petertodd: I was thinking about setting it to the headers-only height, but that's even easier to spoof and thus used for marking
567 2014-12-21 14:37:29 <azeteki> harding: thanks
568 2014-12-21 14:37:39 <petertodd> wumpus: is headers-only height based on block headers processed?
569 2014-12-21 14:37:46 <harding> azeteki: thank you for thinking about keep the docs updated!
570 2014-12-21 14:37:46 <sipa> yes
571 2014-12-21 14:37:47 <wumpus> petertodd: yes
572 2014-12-21 14:37:55 <petertodd> wumpus: right - that's pretty damn expensive to spoof...
573 2014-12-21 14:38:02 <azeteki> harding: well I use the docs a lot so it just makes sense. :P
574 2014-12-21 14:38:18 <wumpus> petertodd: at least you can't spoof it back in time, just a bit forward
575 2014-12-21 14:39:02 <harding> azeteki: yeah.  I think you'll like the not-yet-PR'd new format for the RPCs.  Might help find interesting new things for your ncurses app. :-)
576 2014-12-21 14:39:03 <petertodd> my thinking on this was node fingerprinting attacks were likely to be the least interesting - much more interesting was distinguishing different wallets from another, but again, there's so many ways that you can do that
577 2014-12-21 14:39:19 <wumpus> so: it will be closer to the real height than your current sync height when you're behind, no matter what
578 2014-12-21 14:39:48 <petertodd> wumpus: ok, so change it to headers height then - expensive to spoof forward, and as close as possible to tip is best
579 2014-12-21 14:40:01 <wumpus> petertodd: I don't care so much about distinguishing the software, just about disinguishing senders
580 2014-12-21 14:40:21 <petertodd> wumpus: athough there is the issue of reliable tx propagation - I already do 10 blocks back to avoid causing bad propagation for now
581 2014-12-21 14:40:44 <petertodd> mempool acceptance is based on real height
582 2014-12-21 14:41:20 <wumpus> petertodd: 10 blocks back should be safe enough
583 2014-12-21 14:41:41 <wumpus> if most peers are more than 10 blocks out of sync with the headers-first height, something is seriously wrong
584 2014-12-21 14:41:46 <petertodd> wumpus: yes... but remember that's meant to be a temporary thing until better propagation is implemented
585 2014-12-21 14:42:09 <petertodd> wumpus: again, for the entire thing to be worth while, you want nLockTime set so the tx can only be mined in the next block as much as possible
586 2014-12-21 14:42:28 <petertodd> wumpus: having said that, maybe accepting txs to the mempool based on header height is ok?
587 2014-12-21 14:43:05 <wumpus> petertodd: maybe
588 2014-12-21 14:43:53 <wumpus> although we try to enforce 'if it is in the mempool means it can be mined' invariant strongly
589 2014-12-21 14:44:49 <petertodd> wumpus: yeah, and we should (see https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/5521)
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597 2014-12-21 14:50:56 <petertodd> unrelated: so I was discussing CHECKLOCKTIMEVERIFY with greenaddress, and that the timeout goes in the redeemScript and is an absolute timeout, rather than a delta timeout, is problematic
598 2014-12-21 14:51:45 Dagger2 is now known as Dagger
599 2014-12-21 14:51:50 <sipa> so you'dwant to be able to use p2sh, but with the locktime req outside of the hashed script?
600 2014-12-21 14:52:08 <petertodd> strongly considering writing up a spec for a CHECK_TXOUT_HEIGHT_VERIFY opcode so we could instead do: IF <pub1> CHECKSIGVERIFY ELSE CHECK_TXOUT_HEIGHT_VERIFY <delta-timeout> ADD CHECKLOCKTIMEVERIFY DROP ENDIF <pub2> CHECKSIG
601 2014-12-21 14:52:33 <petertodd> which would be redeemed in the timeout case with scriptSig: <sig> <txout height>
602 2014-12-21 14:52:39 <petertodd> sipa: yup
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604 2014-12-21 14:53:17 <petertodd> CHECK_TXOUT_HEIGHT_VERIFY then would check the item on the stack against the txout height, failing the script if they aren't equal
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607 2014-12-21 14:53:41 <petertodd> (obviously we might want to actually make that into a CHECK_TXOUT_DATA_VERIFY opcode so multiple such things can be put onto the stack)
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610 2014-12-21 15:03:14 <petertodd> sipa: oh, actually that's kinda mistaken: even if you used a scriptPubKey the problem is still there, as you can't get senders to update old addresses (w/ a hypothetical "give sender whole scriptPubKey" address type)
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660 2014-12-21 16:56:02 <n0n0_> hi
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662 2014-12-21 16:56:26 <n0n0_> i recently found this on the wiki: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/User:Justmoon/IMTUO
663 2014-12-21 16:56:31 <n0n0_> it sounds like a great idea
664 2014-12-21 16:56:37 <n0n0_> is anyone working on this or similar things?
665 2014-12-21 16:56:48 <n0n0_> also, couldn't this be implemented as a soft fork eventually?
666 2014-12-21 16:58:35 <wumpus> yes, a form of commit-to-utxo is expected to land eventually
667 2014-12-21 16:59:02 <wumpus> though I don't think anyone is actively working on that right now
668 2014-12-21 17:02:39 <sipa> utxo or stxo
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673 2014-12-21 17:08:55 <wumpus> stxo?
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691 2014-12-21 17:32:52 <xabbix> What do the leveldb chainstate files contain? Is their structure documented anywhere?
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693 2014-12-21 17:34:27 <wumpus> txdb.cpp
694 2014-12-21 17:34:56 <xabbix> I'll have a look, thank you
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702 2014-12-21 17:46:42 <wumpus> just be warned that the databases are not an official interface, so we don't take any care in keeping them compatible from version to version
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708 2014-12-21 18:04:42 <kanzure> anyone up for some pre-pull-request code review real quick? https://github.com/kanzure/bitcoin/commit/034b8544c60fda58cbf0d1787e50efe42d4fa676
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719 2014-12-21 18:33:50 <kanzure> fundrawtransaction + watchonly https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/5524
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721 2014-12-21 18:36:28 <brand0> nice work with the tests kanzure
722 2014-12-21 18:36:41 <kanzure> i think i am missing like 100% of the edge cases
723 2014-12-21 18:37:11 <brand0> maybe, sorry I can't provide more input
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860 2014-12-21 23:20:09 <average> http://thehackernews.com/2014/12/ICANN-Hacked.html
861 2014-12-21 23:20:20 <average> cool stuff.. I guess we'll enjoy the fireworks for NYE..
862 2014-12-21 23:20:34 <average> a lot of these things are going on lately..
863 2014-12-21 23:21:09 <average> I can never tell if it's just me looking at more security news, or if it's really more security vulnerabilities coming up
864 2014-12-21 23:21:12 <average> anyway..
865 2014-12-21 23:23:05 <owowo> man that'S iNSAne!
866 2014-12-21 23:23:35 mpmcsweeney has joined
867 2014-12-21 23:27:28 <average> owowo: what's so insane ?
868 2014-12-21 23:27:37 <average> oh, the 3-letter substring
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870 2014-12-21 23:28:03 <user7779078> average: things seem hot lately, you aren't alone in that thought
871 2014-12-21 23:28:41 Adlai has joined
872 2014-12-21 23:28:57 <average> user7779078: ah, interesting
873 2014-12-21 23:29:20 <average> nice to get confirmation
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