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  46 2014-12-23 01:50:00 <ers35> Should "privatekeys" be "prevtxs"? https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/master/src/bitcoin-tx.cpp#L371
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  48 2014-12-23 01:50:49 <bsm117532> betchayes
  49 2014-12-23 01:51:18 <sipa> ers35: looks like it
  50 2014-12-23 01:51:39 <sipa> patches welcome (and unit tests that would have caught this too)
  51 2014-12-23 01:51:43 <ers35> I'll submit a pull
  52 2014-12-23 01:52:13 <sipa> thanks!
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  67 2014-12-23 02:27:38 <ers35> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/5528
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 152 2014-12-23 06:12:15 <Luke-Jr> bah, not even uptime 48 hours and already Linux BUGs on me. I miss when Linux was reliable :/
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 154 2014-12-23 06:19:24 <fenn> switch to stable
 155 2014-12-23 06:21:07 <Luke-Jr> maybe. I guess there should be a stable kernel that works with my hardware by now
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 226 2014-12-23 08:22:59 <jonasschnelli> gitian and apt-cacher-ng: do i have to config somehow apt-cacher-ng? When accessing 'http://127.0.0.1:3142/archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu' i get a 403?
 227 2014-12-23 08:23:01 IrishGringo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 228 2014-12-23 08:24:32 <wumpus> I never needed to
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 233 2014-12-23 08:30:22 <Luke-Jr> I think I needed to. But it's been a while.
 234 2014-12-23 08:31:20 <jonasschnelli> i just changed the make-base-vm script to direct urls to avoid the usage of apt-cacher-ng
 235 2014-12-23 08:31:25 <jonasschnelli> now it looks better
 236 2014-12-23 08:33:40 <jonasschnelli> im looking forward to a non-vm/non-gitian deterministic toolchain. :)
 237 2014-12-23 08:34:01 <jonasschnelli> s/detemrninistic/detemrninistic build/
 238 2014-12-23 08:34:32 <Luke-Jr> meh, having our own package manager is essentially no better than gitian IMO
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 241 2014-12-23 08:37:23 <wumpus> if it avoids having to set up a VM, or even a VM-in-a-VM, it'd be a great improvement over the current state though
 242 2014-12-23 08:37:27 <jonasschnelli> gitian looks not so good maintained. Non-trivial and a time-eating-black-hole (while configuring). Lot's of dependencies.
 243 2014-12-23 08:37:51 <wumpus> depends works really well, but I suppose you only appreciate it if you cross-compile a lot
 244 2014-12-23 08:38:31 <jonasschnelli> or it would be cool to have a shell / python script who downloads and configure a VirtualBox ubuntu with gitian build and everything.
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 246 2014-12-23 08:38:34 <wumpus> and for a gitian replacement, cross-compile is a given, so I don't see how we'd do it without something like depends
 247 2014-12-23 08:38:50 <wumpus> jonasschnelli: that's just inception another level
 248 2014-12-23 08:39:18 <wumpus> jonasschnelli: you can keep building scripts that build vms that build scripts that build software etc etc :P we're trying to escape from that
 249 2014-12-23 08:39:28 <jonasschnelli> not the build depends... i mean gitian depends..., no flexible configuration, tied to ubuntu, fix apt-cacher-ng,
 250 2014-12-23 08:39:46 <maaku> jonasschnelli: I had a makefile once that setup a VirtualBox based gitian builder. i haven't keept it up to date
 251 2014-12-23 08:39:53 <maaku> feel free to write one
 252 2014-12-23 08:40:02 <midnightmagic> can an lxc spawn a sub-lxc?  huh. so it can. https://help.ubuntu.com/lts/serverguide/lxc.html#lxc-basic-usage (nesting)
 253 2014-12-23 08:40:04 <maaku> there just hasn't been enough need ...
 254 2014-12-23 08:40:05 <jonasschnelli> yes. that's probably the issue. Keep it up to date. :)
 255 2014-12-23 08:40:16 <wumpus> I wouldn't bother, if you're going to spend time on it work with cfields on a gitian replacement involing a cross toolchain
 256 2014-12-23 08:40:52 <wumpus> midnightmagic: yes, lxc can spawn a sub lxc, a nested world of fun
 257 2014-12-23 08:40:54 <jonasschnelli> wumpus: i set my goals this night: new wallet/flexible backend, SPV mode in bitcoind (*duck*)
 258 2014-12-23 08:41:17 <wumpus> jonasschnelli: so what do you think about my newwallet branch idea?
 259 2014-12-23 08:41:26 <maaku> that's a lot to accomplish in one night
 260 2014-12-23 08:41:28 <wumpus> jonasschnelli: it is the same way bitcoin-qt was developed
 261 2014-12-23 08:41:29 <Luke-Jr> wumpus: well, I cross-compile a lot - but I suspect depends won't make use of the cross-compiled libs I have already ;p
 262 2014-12-23 08:41:47 <jonasschnelli> wumpus: yes i read that. Could be a good idea. But i'm not sure if the changeset is that huge.
 263 2014-12-23 08:41:49 <maaku> jonasschnelli: those are both welcome goals, don't know why you're ducking
 264 2014-12-23 08:41:53 <cfields> wumpus: i played with it a good bit today. seems very reasonable
 265 2014-12-23 08:42:01 <wumpus> jonasschnelli: old GUI code was (effectively) frozen, I forked bitcoin repository,  worked on the new UI until it was somehow ready,  then merged it for a major release when ready
 266 2014-12-23 08:42:36 <Luke-Jr> (don't do your fork/merge the way wumpus did though, use normal git practices :P)
 267 2014-12-23 08:42:48 <Luke-Jr> (for some reason we ended up with the entire RPC code being deleted and re-added)
 268 2014-12-23 08:42:57 <wumpus> jonasschnelli: there is no capacity for  reviewing incremental improvements to the wallet, so it has to be in one go
 269 2014-12-23 08:43:06 <wumpus> Luke-Jr: yes, I screwed up there
 270 2014-12-23 08:43:20 <wumpus> Luke-Jr: but that doesn't change anything to the underlying point
 271 2014-12-23 08:43:24 <Luke-Jr> right
 272 2014-12-23 08:43:44 <jonasschnelli> wumpus: so you think creating a replacement (same interface) for CWalletDB would need a new branch?
 273 2014-12-23 08:44:19 <wumpus> jonasschnelli: you can make *any* change there, like implement SPV, implement determinitic keys, implement a new on-disk format, remove the acccount system, and on and on
 274 2014-12-23 08:44:48 <wumpus> jonasschnelli: everything that's been neglected to do for the legacy wallet
 275 2014-12-23 08:44:50 <jonasschnelli> wumpus: how about review and collaboration work?
 276 2014-12-23 08:45:01 <wumpus> jonasschnelli: you'd have to organize your own, maybe with sipa's help
 277 2014-12-23 08:45:12 <cfields> jonasschnelli: as for the question above, there are no more gitian depends. gitian now uses the depends/ as its base (in case you weren't already aware)
 278 2014-12-23 08:45:13 <wumpus> and cozz?
 279 2014-12-23 08:45:26 <wumpus> probably there are some other people interested in it too once it gets going
 280 2014-12-23 08:46:04 <wumpus> if this had been a year ago, CodeShark, but he started on his completely independent wallet project so I don't think he'll collaborate now
 281 2014-12-23 08:46:23 <jonasschnelli> Okay. Sounds good.
 282 2014-12-23 08:46:42 <jonasschnelli> No promises that i will succeed... but at least i can try.
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 284 2014-12-23 08:47:08 <wumpus> no promises necessary
 285 2014-12-23 08:47:26 <wumpus> that's why you work on a separate fork, if it goes nowhwere, well it's a pity but noone gets hurt either
 286 2014-12-23 08:47:47 <jonasschnelli> Yes. That is right...
 287 2014-12-23 08:47:55 <Luke-Jr> I'm not un-interested, but whether I'll have time is another matter
 288 2014-12-23 08:48:29 <jonasschnelli> Time is constraint. It's more a priority thing...
 289 2014-12-23 08:48:31 SubCreative is now known as Sub|zzz
 290 2014-12-23 08:48:50 <wumpus> and I'll review the new wallet code in detail once it lands, but I won't be able to review all incremental changes
 291 2014-12-23 08:48:53 Sub is now known as zzz!~SubCreati@unaffiliated/cannacoin|SubCreative
 292 2014-12-23 08:48:56 <jonasschnelli> I think i can spend some good hours in implementing and testing. But i need review and advices because my lack of c++ knowledge.
 293 2014-12-23 08:49:01 SubCreative is now known as Sub|zzz
 294 2014-12-23 08:49:23 <Luke-Jr> C++ is pretty easy once you get the hang of it
 295 2014-12-23 08:49:28 <Luke-Jr> docs online are good
 296 2014-12-23 08:49:36 <jonasschnelli> For separate branch review i go knock on sipas door because he live around the corner i recently discovered. :)
 297 2014-12-23 08:51:31 <jonasschnelli> s/live/lives
 298 2014-12-23 08:51:43 <Luke-Jr> sipa lives!
 299 2014-12-23 08:55:12 <jonasschnelli> cfields: yes. right. Maybe i meant more that gitian is non-trivial to setup and it seems not so flexible in case of host os selection...
 300 2014-12-23 08:55:51 <cfields> jonasschnelli: yes, ideally we can look towards killing it off.
 301 2014-12-23 08:57:24 <wumpus> cfields: how I imagine the ideal end result would be to pass in a host tuple and get a working, deterministic, static bitcoind for that target :-)
 302 2014-12-23 08:57:59 <cfields> wumpus: ack. that was my hope about 1.5 years ago :)
 303 2014-12-23 08:58:03 <cfields> baby steps i suppose :)
 304 2014-12-23 08:58:29 <wumpus> cfields: sure, we're getting there
 305 2014-12-23 08:59:30 <wumpus> I think gitian's main problem is that it is trying too much (ie, support too many configurations of VMs, for example), and too little maintained to afford that
 306 2014-12-23 08:59:33 <cfields> wumpus: i thought about it a good bit today. there are still going to be hurdles. stupid incompatibilities between native awk/sed/etc... stupid little things that are hard to anticipate
 307 2014-12-23 08:59:38 <cfields> but it's very doable still.
 308 2014-12-23 08:59:39 <wumpus> we'll just do one thing and it will work (TM)
 309 2014-12-23 08:59:44 tarantillo_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 310 2014-12-23 09:00:01 <wumpus> cfields: yes, can't avoid those
 311 2014-12-23 09:00:03 tarantillo_ has joined
 312 2014-12-23 09:00:29 <wumpus> cfields: worst-case we can build those for the host, as ccache
 313 2014-12-23 09:01:25 <cfields> wumpus: yes. thing is, i'm hesitant to diverge from travis. i really like the fact that travis builds exactly as gitian does. we'll either need to diverge to avoid building 30 things on travis, or improve on our caching strategy significatly
 314 2014-12-23 09:01:38 <cfields> i'm hacking on some experiments atm
 315 2014-12-23 09:01:46 <wumpus> cfields: on travis all of those tools exist and work
 316 2014-12-23 09:02:13 <wumpus> cfields: you'd have to build them only if the platform's one is not compatible
 317 2014-12-23 09:02:14 <cfields> wumpus: sure, as long as the results are deterministic, no need to build ourselves
 318 2014-12-23 09:02:38 <wumpus> or sucks in another way making it unusable (e.g., the nightmare of building from mingw...)
 319 2014-12-23 09:03:21 erasmospunk has joined
 320 2014-12-23 09:03:38 <cfields> yea. a chain-reaction is what i'm afraid of. I'm hoping we get lucking and don't have to drill down too low.
 321 2014-12-23 09:03:41 <cfields> *lucky
 322 2014-12-23 09:03:42 <wumpus> then again, supporting build from linux is enough for the initial stage, other platforms could still use one-level-of VM
 323 2014-12-23 09:03:54 <wumpus> or linux+macosx sounds doable
 324 2014-12-23 09:04:01 <wumpus> both sufficiently unixy
 325 2014-12-23 09:04:40 <Luke-Jr> can we support Amiga?
 326 2014-12-23 09:04:42 * Luke-Jr hides
 327 2014-12-23 09:04:42 ruukasu has joined
 328 2014-12-23 09:04:51 <wumpus> no.
 329 2014-12-23 09:05:28 CoinMuncher has joined
 330 2014-12-23 09:07:12 <cfields> wumpus: i think we're very much on the same page. i'm working on getting crosstool working so that we can build from any toolchain it creates. from there, we'll just have to see where the problems crop up.
 331 2014-12-23 09:07:30 <Luke-Jr> cfields: can I use crossdev instead of crosstool?
 332 2014-12-23 09:07:43 <wumpus> Luke-Jr: no - we'll support one set of tools
 333 2014-12-23 09:07:51 <Luke-Jr> :<
 334 2014-12-23 09:07:58 <wumpus> whether that is crosstool or crossdev I don't care though
 335 2014-12-23 09:08:14 <Luke-Jr> crossdev is kinda Gentoo-specific, and crosstool isn't packaged for Gentoo
 336 2014-12-23 09:08:15 <wumpus> but there will be no forest of configurability, too much too maintain
 337 2014-12-23 09:08:20 <cfields> Luke-Jr: i've not worked with crossdev before. is there anything in particular that sets it apart?
 338 2014-12-23 09:08:29 <Luke-Jr> cfields: it's integrated with the OS basically
 339 2014-12-23 09:08:30 <wumpus> Luke-Jr: I'm sure cfields will build crosstoo-ng for you from source
 340 2014-12-23 09:09:06 <wumpus> I'm also building mine from source in manual testing, there is no ubuntu package for it either
 341 2014-12-23 09:09:08 <cfields> Luke-Jr: well that's a minus, as far as i'm concerned
 342 2014-12-23 09:09:21 <cfields> Luke-Jr: rather, distro-agnostic is a plus
 343 2014-12-23 09:09:37 <wumpus> crosstool-ng is easy to build from source, has no dependencies apart from a basic compiler+toolchain, and runs from its build directory
 344 2014-12-23 09:09:38 <Luke-Jr> cfields: I agree, which is why it should be neutral to what cross-builder is used ;)
 345 2014-12-23 09:10:03 <wumpus> Luke-Jr: no, it should just pick a fixed version of one and build with it, to have a deterministic result!
 346 2014-12-23 09:10:35 <cfields> Luke-Jr: that's kinda a null argument. the cross-builder that's used is the cross-builder that we pick
 347 2014-12-23 09:10:40 <Luke-Jr> wumpus: hm, I guess that's a point; I was thinking just use x-y-z-gcc regardless of where it came from, but that might get Gentoo-specific patches for crossdev :\
 348 2014-12-23 09:11:07 hashtag_ has joined
 349 2014-12-23 09:11:12 <wumpus> Luke-Jr: yeah - distro-specific patches to the build env is exactly what we're trying to avoid by buildng our own sanitized one
 350 2014-12-23 09:11:40 <cfields> Luke-Jr: i do agree with that somewhat, though. I'd like to be able to continue to use a host toolchain of your choice, even if only for local tests/use
 351 2014-12-23 09:11:41 <Luke-Jr> I suppose I can always do a KVM instance with whatever in it
 352 2014-12-23 09:11:57 <wumpus> cfields: sure, for non-release use 
 353 2014-12-23 09:12:12 <wumpus> cfields: we only need the toolchain dance for releases
 354 2014-12-23 09:12:23 <cfields> wumpus: yes, exactly. your mips/aarch64 hacking is a good example of where that comes in handy
 355 2014-12-23 09:12:39 <wumpus> for non-releases you can A) use the current depends system B) just install the dependencies yourself
 356 2014-12-23 09:12:43 <wumpus> cfields: yup
 357 2014-12-23 09:12:49 <cfields> (though i suppose crosstool probably handled that just fine as well)
 358 2014-12-23 09:13:16 won9 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 359 2014-12-23 09:13:41 MRW has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
 360 2014-12-23 09:15:00 <cfields> ok, looks like there's a reasonably clear objective here for once. will put together a POC.
 361 2014-12-23 09:15:43 <wumpus> but let's first get 0.10 out of the door, we'll have to bite the bullet with gitian for now
 362 2014-12-23 09:16:13 <Luke-Jr> +2
 363 2014-12-23 09:16:15 <cfields> of course
 364 2014-12-23 09:16:21 <jonasschnelli> gitian: now it continues: after successful creating the base images for amd/i386 i tried gbuild and get "lxc-start: lxc_start.c: main: 337 The container failed to start.". Any ideas?
 365 2014-12-23 09:17:51 <cfields> jonasschnelli: i realize this is a non-answer, but gitian+lxc was a never-ending time-sink for me. kvm pretty much works as intended.
 366 2014-12-23 09:19:11 <jonasschnelli> does kvm works when having hw/host[osx]->VirtualBoxVM[ubuntu]->GitianKVM?
 367 2014-12-23 09:20:08 <cfields> jonasschnelli: ouch. that depends on several variables that i'm not qualified to discuss.
 368 2014-12-23 09:20:17 rubensayshi has joined
 369 2014-12-23 09:20:18 <jonasschnelli> okay.. let me try.
 370 2014-12-23 09:20:50 JackH has joined
 371 2014-12-23 09:23:27 <cfields> jonasschnelli: i'll start first thing tomorrow with a similar build, though. for the sake of fixing up the docs
 372 2014-12-23 09:24:10 <cfields> i always do gitian builds from linux, but i'll try one from scratch tomorrow from my macbook via vbox and document the process
 373 2014-12-23 09:24:12 <jonasschnelli> cfields: yes. would be nice. Maybe i have some inputs (whenever my gitian vm works).
 374 2014-12-23 09:25:19 <cfields> i'm not really sure what's changed in that regard since 0.9.x, though?
 375 2014-12-23 09:26:48 timothy has joined
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 379 2014-12-23 09:32:16 <cfields> nnite
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 389 2014-12-23 09:49:51 <michagogo> jonasschnelli: as of last time I tried, KVM inside VBox didn't work
 390 2014-12-23 09:50:59 <michagogo> 11:25:38 <cfields> i'm not really sure what's changed in that regard since 0.9.x, though?
 391 2014-12-23 09:51:09 <michagogo> We're just using one precise-amd64 VM now, right?
 392 2014-12-23 09:51:26 <michagogo> I think we were still using precise-{amd64,i386} in 0.9?
 393 2014-12-23 09:51:43 <jonasschnelli> michagogo IMO it can't work. But i give it a try now...
 394 2014-12-23 09:52:02 <michagogo> jonasschnelli: Yeah, pretty sure VBox doesn't do nesting
 395 2014-12-23 09:52:16 <michagogo> I think at one point I installed VMWare Player, and KVM worked inside that
 396 2014-12-23 09:52:27 <michagogo> But then OpenSSL failed to build, something about asm
 397 2014-12-23 09:52:40 <jonasschnelli> aha... i could try in vmware.. right
 398 2014-12-23 09:53:01 <michagogo> What's wrong with lxc?
 399 2014-12-23 09:53:12 * michagogo hasn't really has much trouble with it
 400 2014-12-23 09:53:24 <jonasschnelli> getting one error after another... seems a time-eating-thing
 401 2014-12-23 09:53:42 <jonasschnelli> was giving up when i got ""lxc-start: lxc_start.c: main: 337 The container failed to start."" while gbuild-ing
 402 2014-12-23 09:54:07 <jonasschnelli> michagogo precies base vm was okay
 403 2014-12-23 09:55:19 <michagogo> jonasschnelli: what about the sanity-check mentioned in Gitian's readme?
 404 2014-12-23 09:55:36 <michagogo> Also, what's your environment? Which Ubuntu, following which steps?
 405 2014-12-23 09:56:43 <jonasschnelli> hardware host: OSX 10.10 / VirtualBox with Ubuntu 14.10 as Gitian Host
 406 2014-12-23 09:56:57 <jonasschnelli> followed wumpus tutorial
 407 2014-12-23 09:57:03 <jonasschnelli> (more or less)
 408 2014-12-23 09:57:17 ajweiss has quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
 409 2014-12-23 09:58:31 <michagogo> Hm, not familiar with 14.10
 410 2014-12-23 09:58:39 <michagogo> I think my setup is on 12.04
 411 2014-12-23 09:58:50 <michagogo> Maybe I should consider going to 14.04
 412 2014-12-23 09:59:35 <jonasschnelli> or maybe i should go to 12.04...
 413 2014-12-23 10:03:12 <michagogo> jonasschnelli: It's supported until 17.04
 414 2014-12-23 10:03:53 <jonasschnelli> michagogo: okay. i try now in VMWare... from the scratch
 415 2014-12-23 10:04:14 <michagogo> jonasschnelli: also, I didn't really follow any specific tutorial, I just looked at the gitian readme
 416 2014-12-23 10:04:18 <michagogo> and our release-process.md
 417 2014-12-23 10:04:25 <michagogo> (and descriptors, I think)
 418 2014-12-23 10:16:15 gnuborg has joined
 419 2014-12-23 10:16:31 erasmospunk has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 420 2014-12-23 10:26:56 <wumpus> I'm going to write the release notes for 0.10 today, my goal is to merge the last open pulls for 0.10 and tag the rc1 after that
 421 2014-12-23 10:27:25 GAit has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 422 2014-12-23 10:29:39 <gmaxwell> wumpus: Do I owe any work on the two fee related pulls I have open for 0.10?
 423 2014-12-23 10:31:40 <wumpus> gmaxwell: doesn't look like that
 424 2014-12-23 10:34:31 trixisowned has quit (Read error: No route to host)
 425 2014-12-23 10:35:05 <wumpus> gmaxwell: don't know if you still want to test https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/5459, I tested it but sipa mentioned you
 426 2014-12-23 10:35:19 <wumpus> oh you acked it
 427 2014-12-23 10:35:43 <gmaxwell> I've tested it. yea, your mentioned of 0.10 caused me to go check testing results.
 428 2014-12-23 10:36:07 neozaru has joined
 429 2014-12-23 10:36:33 damethos has joined
 430 2014-12-23 10:37:04 <jonasschnelli> whats stored in the <datadir>/database? Is that kind of disk working environment for the wallet?
 431 2014-12-23 10:37:24 <gmaxwell> jonasschnelli: correct.
 432 2014-12-23 10:38:04 ericmuyser has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 433 2014-12-23 10:38:52 <jonasschnelli> a complete in memory handling for the wallet would be possible, regarding of potential wallet size and assume that bdb was replaced?
 434 2014-12-23 10:39:19 <wumpus> jonasschnelli: a 'journal' IIRC
 435 2014-12-23 10:39:43 <wumpus> jonasschnelli: it would be possible
 436 2014-12-23 10:40:23 <gmaxwell> jonasschnelli: ", regarding of potential wallet size"  ?
 437 2014-12-23 10:40:30 <wumpus> jonasschnelli: although keeping all historical transactions in memory likely isn't useful
 438 2014-12-23 10:40:38 <gmaxwell> wumpus: the data there is only created by bdb, not bitcoin core code.
 439 2014-12-23 10:40:48 <wumpus> gmaxwell: yes
 440 2014-12-23 10:41:02 <gmaxwell> oops that was supposted to be directed at jonasschnelli
 441 2014-12-23 10:41:08 <jonasschnelli> gmaxwell i have no experience how big a wallet might get.
 442 2014-12-23 10:41:16 <wumpus> jonasschnelli: you should ask Jouke
 443 2014-12-23 10:41:21 <wumpus> hehe
 444 2014-12-23 10:41:26 <jonasschnelli> Joke? big wallet user?
 445 2014-12-23 10:41:36 <gmaxwell> I don't know why a in memory only wallet might be considered desirable, just would seem to artificially limit scalability.
 446 2014-12-23 10:41:36 <jonasschnelli> s/Joke/Jouke
 447 2014-12-23 10:41:40 <Jouke> We recently stopped using our old wallet
 448 2014-12-23 10:42:00 <Jouke> It was two and a half years old, with around 150k addresses
 449 2014-12-23 10:42:29 <wumpus> gmaxwell: agreed, and you need to sync to disk anyhow to make sure you lose nothing on crashes
 450 2014-12-23 10:42:32 <gmaxwell> the growth should be different now, because we no longer stick prev in transactions into the wallet. This caused a lot of crazy growth.
 451 2014-12-23 10:43:09 <Jouke> Is there an easy way to see how many transactions it stored?
 452 2014-12-23 10:43:31 <jonasschnelli> Joke probably with pywallet?
 453 2014-12-23 10:43:34 <maaku> jonasschnelli: any new wallet should be using an append-only structure for safety
 454 2014-12-23 10:43:37 <wumpus> without starting bitcoin core? well, you could get the total number of records using bdb tools
 455 2014-12-23 10:43:53 <wumpus> that would be 2*addresses + transactions roughly
 456 2014-12-23 10:44:06 <Jouke> wumpus: well, we still have it running.
 457 2014-12-23 10:44:38 <wumpus> let's see
 458 2014-12-23 10:44:43 <gmaxwell> wumpus: i think jouke might like to know how much smaller it would be if it was all written with current code.
 459 2014-12-23 10:44:45 <Jouke> people sending bitcoins to very old adresses and such
 460 2014-12-23 10:44:56 hashtag_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
 461 2014-12-23 10:46:03 <wumpus> no, I don't think there is a call to get the number of transactions without querying them
 462 2014-12-23 10:46:34 <Jouke> The wallet also gathered some invalid transactions that it kept broadcasting over the years.
 463 2014-12-23 10:47:12 <wumpus> gmaxwell: well at least two times smaller I suppose? depending on the average size of the transactions and the number of inputs
 464 2014-12-23 10:47:38 <wumpus> Jouke: the empty vins? should be fixed with 0.9.3
 465 2014-12-23 10:47:44 <gmaxwell> wumpus: yea, I suspect greater.
 466 2014-12-23 10:47:55 <gmaxwell> (I mean a greater than 2x reduction)
 467 2014-12-23 10:48:57 <wumpus> Jouke: if there are other invalid transactions being broadcasted please open an issue
 468 2014-12-23 10:49:16 hashtag_ has joined
 469 2014-12-23 10:49:34 <Jouke> It was about the empty vins indeed
 470 2014-12-23 10:49:55 <wumpus> Jouke: ok, do you need the commit id# that stops that for cherry picking?
 471 2014-12-23 10:50:16 <Jouke> Nah, as I said, we stopped using that wallet in production.
 472 2014-12-23 10:51:00 <wumpus> ok, it's just that those transactions get your node banned
 473 2014-12-23 10:51:19 <Jouke> I know, but it was not directly connected to outside nodes anyway.
 474 2014-12-23 10:51:30 <wumpus> good
 475 2014-12-23 10:52:07 afk11 has joined
 476 2014-12-23 10:52:45 <wumpus> jonasschnelli: anyhow, yes, the current implementation with all its faults (such as keeping everything in memory) does support huge wallets
 477 2014-12-23 10:52:55 won9 has joined
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 479 2014-12-23 10:53:39 <jonasschnelli> Yes. i see.
 480 2014-12-23 10:54:40 <Jouke> Transactions in that old wallet: Move: 188460, Send: 94272, Received: 152926
 481 2014-12-23 10:54:42 trixisowned has joined
 482 2014-12-23 10:54:45 <wumpus> the UI has some problems there that bitcoind doesn't really have (also because people expect more snappyness when directly interacting)
 483 2014-12-23 10:55:01 fanquake has joined
 484 2014-12-23 10:55:19 jtimon has joined
 485 2014-12-23 10:55:22 <wumpus> Jouke: thanks
 486 2014-12-23 10:56:04 <jonasschnelli> thanks.
 487 2014-12-23 10:58:32 Lightsword has quit (Quit: Lightsword)
 488 2014-12-23 10:58:45 erasmospunk has joined
 489 2014-12-23 10:59:50 <fanquake> jonasschnelli For how long have you been seeing the new toolbar when running master?
 490 2014-12-23 11:00:56 <jonasschnelli> the std::map mapWallet does the in memory mapping? I assume key won't kept in memory because of security.
 491 2014-12-23 11:01:24 <wumpus> jonasschnelli: keys are kept in memory, though encrypted if you use encrypted wallet
 492 2014-12-23 11:02:14 <jonasschnelli> fanquake what do you mean exactly? The new toolbar = new icons? What do you mean "for how long"?
 493 2014-12-23 11:02:52 <wumpus> and for non-encrypted keys, keeping them only on disk isn't exactly a security win either
 494 2014-12-23 11:03:11 <fanquake> sorry, bad wording. I meant to say the progress bar. I’ve noticed in your screenshots its looked different to what I’ve been seeing for a while.
 495 2014-12-23 11:04:10 <jonasschnelli> fanquake: you mean the clear flat blue progress bar? Do you run osx10.10?
 496 2014-12-23 11:04:12 <wumpus> progress bar is qt's, not ours
 497 2014-12-23 11:04:39 <fanquake> jonasschnelli Yes. I was wondering if it was just because you were running 10.10.
 498 2014-12-23 11:04:59 <jonasschnelli> yes. Qt uses OS X framework which change in gfx-style from 10.9 to 10.10
 499 2014-12-23 11:05:11 <jonasschnelli> everything flat now.
 500 2014-12-23 11:05:23 <fanquake> Ah ok, which Qt have you been building with recently?
 501 2014-12-23 11:05:28 <fanquake> I’ve just moved to 5.4
 502 2014-12-23 11:06:03 <jonasschnelli> fanquake: 5.3.1
 503 2014-12-23 11:06:35 <fanquake> Ok. Liking the new icons btw
 504 2014-12-23 11:07:41 <jonasschnelli> I also think they look more clean now. Luke-Jr color change make it even look better on linux
 505 2014-12-23 11:07:59 <wumpus> yes i like the 80's revival
 506 2014-12-23 11:08:03 <wumpus> everything in two colors
 507 2014-12-23 11:08:27 <wumpus> :D
 508 2014-12-23 11:08:38 <fanquake> wumpus Any plans on releasing that christmas qt you were playing around with? :p
 509 2014-12-23 11:08:41 <wumpus> especially with luke-jr's patch
 510 2014-12-23 11:08:45 ItSANgo has joined
 511 2014-12-23 11:09:16 afk11 has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
 512 2014-12-23 11:09:21 <wumpus> fanquake: hahaha could do that as an easter egg, as VLC does with its icon around christmas
 513 2014-12-23 11:09:36 belcher has joined
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 515 2014-12-23 11:09:51 belcher has joined
 516 2014-12-23 11:09:57 <jonasschnelli> Yes. i recently detected the santa-clause-cap on VLC! pretty cool that they release such stuff...
 517 2014-12-23 11:09:57 <fanquake> wumpus Speaking of VLC, I just noticed the little christmas hat this morning heh
 518 2014-12-23 11:10:10 afk11 has joined
 519 2014-12-23 11:10:21 <jonasschnelli> (pretty cool that they find time for such things)
 520 2014-12-23 11:10:42 Namworld has quit ()
 521 2014-12-23 11:11:22 <fanquake> jonasschelli Did you see the April fools BIP that sipa and a few other wrote up?
 522 2014-12-23 11:11:33 <jonasschnelli> no
 523 2014-12-23 11:12:06 <Luke-Jr> fanquake: that was totally serious!
 524 2014-12-23 11:12:09 <afk11> It was merged.
 525 2014-12-23 11:12:13 <jonasschnelli> Is there no pre-work (mental or implementation) for multiple wallet support as is is in Multibit?
 526 2014-12-23 11:12:17 <Luke-Jr> unless it kept the part about PHP
 527 2014-12-23 11:12:53 gribble has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
 528 2014-12-23 11:12:59 <fanquake> Luke-Jr heh. I’ll have to go an track it down then.
 529 2014-12-23 11:13:07 benrcole has joined
 530 2014-12-23 11:13:32 <afk11> Its in the change logs, meaning, a core fundamental of bitcoin was changed without many peoples knowledge :p
 531 2014-12-23 11:13:38 benrcole1 has joined
 532 2014-12-23 11:14:58 <wumpus> jonasschnelli: you can create multiple wallet objects, it's just that the RPC interface would have to be redesigned
 533 2014-12-23 11:15:34 <jonasschnelli> wumpus: so switching pwalletMain under the hood works?
 534 2014-12-23 11:15:39 <wumpus> afk11: well a core fundamental was platform dependent, which would imply a fork somewhere far in the future, so yes the underlying idea was serious just not how it was presented
 535 2014-12-23 11:15:51 <wumpus> jonasschnelli: no no no
 536 2014-12-23 11:16:06 <Luke-Jr> fanquake: basically, the original consensus algorithm had an infinite number of bitcoins, not the widely claimed 21 million BTC. so that BIP you're thinking of hardforked it to the widely-believed limit
 537 2014-12-23 11:16:15 <Luke-Jr> softforked*
 538 2014-12-23 11:16:29 <wumpus> jonasschnelli: it doesn't work, and anything supporting multiwallet would get rid of pwalletmain
 539 2014-12-23 11:16:53 <jonasschnelli> okay.
 540 2014-12-23 11:16:54 <Luke-Jr> fanquake: the original algorithm was after ~256 years, the subsidy began over at 50 BTC
 541 2014-12-23 11:17:13 <wumpus> jonasschnelli: it's just that the base ideas are there, you'd need serious changes to the RPC interface as well as initialization/shutdown to make it really work
 542 2014-12-23 11:17:33 benrcole has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
 543 2014-12-23 11:17:42 <wumpus> jonasschnelli: note that the UI only uses pwalletmain at startup, apart from that it's multi-wallet-agnostic
 544 2014-12-23 11:17:44 <fanquake> Luke-Jr heh. Well remind me when I’m 260 or so.
 545 2014-12-23 11:17:56 <Luke-Jr> fanquake: too late, the softfork is live :P
 546 2014-12-23 11:18:07 <wumpus> jonasschnelli: multiple wallet views, multiple walletmodels, it should work (but is ofcourse entirely untested)
 547 2014-12-23 11:18:17 <fanquake> Well damn, guess I can make sure I don’t worry about it any more.
 548 2014-12-23 11:18:20 <Luke-Jr> fanquake: also, it was implemented with undefined behaviour, so easily broken when/if the CPU or compiler changed
 549 2014-12-23 11:19:02 * fanquake wonders what our CPUs will be like in 200 years time
 550 2014-12-23 11:19:07 <wumpus> Luke-Jr: yes, that was a serious issue, there is no guarantee that shifts will behave in that way
 551 2014-12-23 11:19:07 <jonasschnelli> wumpus: okay. Thats good to know. But does the RPC could not live with a "switchwallet" command?
 552 2014-12-23 11:19:24 <wumpus> jonasschnelli: no statefulness
 553 2014-12-23 11:19:30 <wumpus> jonasschnelli: really, don't do that
 554 2014-12-23 11:20:01 <Luke-Jr> +1000 for breaking RPC interface
 555 2014-12-23 11:20:14 <wumpus> think of the poor people running more than one client concurrently, for example
 556 2014-12-23 11:20:40 <wumpus> there are lots of reasons to redesign the wallet RPC interface, and multiwallet is one of them
 557 2014-12-23 11:20:55 <jonasschnelli> Okay. Yes. Thats an issue.
 558 2014-12-23 11:21:18 <Luke-Jr> (outside of the much-needed RPC API change, multiwallet could easily be done with multiple usernames)
 559 2014-12-23 11:21:33 <wumpus> in the most obvious design change the RPC wallet calls would just gain an initial wallet ID argument
 560 2014-12-23 11:21:58 <wumpus> Luke-Jr: that's also an ugly workaround ,but not as ugly as statefulness
 561 2014-12-23 11:22:17 Aquent has joined
 562 2014-12-23 11:22:25 <Luke-Jr> only slightly ugly IMO, but as long as we want an API break anyway, might as well not use the username trick I agree
 563 2014-12-23 11:22:26 <fanquake> wumpus How far into the future do you want multi-wallet support to be?
 564 2014-12-23 11:22:28 <jonasschnelli> Remove states. The initial wallet ID sounds good and stable.
 565 2014-12-23 11:22:47 <wumpus> fanquake: depending on whether someone will work on it, everything from one week to 20 years :P
 566 2014-12-23 11:23:00 <Luke-Jr> well, it's too late for 0.10 at least :p
 567 2014-12-23 11:23:05 <wumpus> oh yes, much too late
 568 2014-12-23 11:23:14 <fanquake> one week? Time to jam it into 0.10 :p
 569 2014-12-23 11:23:26 <Luke-Jr> maybe a year ago, someone had a patch for the multi-username trick, actually
 570 2014-12-23 11:23:36 <wumpus> yes
 571 2014-12-23 11:23:46 <jonasschnelli> is that useable in some ways?
 572 2014-12-23 11:23:57 <Luke-Jr> I'm sure we've shuffled the code too much since then
 573 2014-12-23 11:23:57 <wumpus> but as usual, do to the almost absent interest in wallet changes, it went out of date
 574 2014-12-23 11:24:07 <Luke-Jr> it was fairly simple IIRC
 575 2014-12-23 11:24:20 <Luke-Jr> I mean, most of the stuff is already abstracted for it
 576 2014-12-23 11:24:28 <wumpus> yes it was fairly simple
 577 2014-12-23 11:24:37 <wumpus> as I said, initialization ,shutdown, RPC interface, that's it
 578 2014-12-23 11:24:52 <wumpus> make sure noone uses pwalletmain anymore
 579 2014-12-23 11:25:07 <Luke-Jr> the downside to this way, is that all wallets "need" to be loaded all the time, or you have to rescan
 580 2014-12-23 11:25:09 <jonasschnelli> but long-term-wise i first see a rewrite of the current wallet-backend-implementation. Nothing against BDB, but a tiny append-only-format would make things more easy.
 581 2014-12-23 11:25:28 <wumpus> Luke-Jr: oh yes dynamic loading and unloading wallets would be a future step then
 582 2014-12-23 11:25:52 <wumpus> Luke-Jr: but you'll have to fight bdb... hard
 583 2014-12-23 11:26:12 <Luke-Jr> hopefully bdb is gone soon <.<
 584 2014-12-23 11:26:12 <wumpus> another thing that would be easier with a one-file database format
 585 2014-12-23 11:27:19 <wumpus> so all of these wallet changes really hinge on each other
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 590 2014-12-23 11:30:53 * midnightmagic stabs bdb
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 611 2014-12-23 11:45:56 <wumpus> it just won't die
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 614 2014-12-23 11:47:24 <fanquake> Think I’ve broken VirtualBox
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 617 2014-12-23 11:53:34 <wumpus> whoa, 1122 commits in v0.9.3..0.10 after removing what was cherry-picked into 0.9...
 618 2014-12-23 11:56:11 <fanquake> that’s alot of code review/testing
 619 2014-12-23 11:56:27 <gmaxwell> averages out to only a couple per day though.
 620 2014-12-23 11:56:33 <fanquake> although, how long since 0.9.3 came out now?
 621 2014-12-23 11:57:33 <wumpus> fanquake: a few months, would be more realistic to start counting from 0.9's forking point
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 624 2014-12-23 11:59:20 <fanquake> quick look on github suggests that 0.9 is ~1800 commits behind master
 625 2014-12-23 11:59:50 <wumpus> yes - as said, my count excludes merge commits as well as commits that have in some fashion ended up in 0.9 already
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 627 2014-12-23 12:00:51 <fanquake> Yea. I’ve noticed that fixes are still being pushed to the 0.9 branch
 628 2014-12-23 12:01:03 <wumpus> going to go through them and remove the really trivial ones, then maybe sort them into boxes, though I may not bother
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 630 2014-12-23 12:02:28 <fanquake> sort them into boxes? As sorted by serverity or something?
 631 2014-12-23 12:02:40 <wumpus> no, by aspect, as in earlier changelogs
 632 2014-12-23 12:02:54 <fanquake> ah ok
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 635 2014-12-23 12:05:39 <wumpus> e.g., and changes that fix regressions that were introduced on the way to 0.10 aren't interesting for the release notes either
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 637 2014-12-23 12:06:40 <fanquake> Yep. Like the inflight dos fixed just merged.
 638 2014-12-23 12:07:00 <wumpus> but I like that commit title so much :(
 639 2014-12-23 12:07:03 <wumpus> you're right htough
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 641 2014-12-23 12:07:40 <fanquake> I’m sure no one would object to it’s inclusion in the release notes
 642 2014-12-23 12:07:43 <firelegend> What is the maximum size of a script used in an output?
 643 2014-12-23 12:07:48 <wumpus> sounds like a techno-triller its own right
 644 2014-12-23 12:09:21 <wumpus> firelegend: very large, although the transaction will be non-standard so you'll have trouble getting it mined
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 649 2014-12-23 12:16:41 <wumpus> if anyone of you happens to have a qt bug tracker account, please click vote for my issue https://bugreports.qt-project.org/browse/QTBUG-43168  for more secure payment requests fetching
 650 2014-12-23 12:17:34 GAit has joined
 651 2014-12-23 12:18:51 Aquent has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
 652 2014-12-23 12:19:43 <wumpus> (or help fix the issue, even better of course)
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 667 2014-12-23 12:26:41 <midnightmagic> what's the status of the qt lib anyway? there's been a significant number of open "security vulnerabilities" listed in the netbsd pkgsrc for a number of years
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 702 2014-12-23 12:29:04 <wumpus> it probably needs help, like any open source project
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 708 2014-12-23 12:29:52 <midnightmagic> it feels as though the upstream is no longer developing it. has it effectively been abandoned? the distribution sites are a little muddled these days
 709 2014-12-23 12:30:08 <wumpus> lots of companies using qt, not so many contributing back, it's a general theme
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 711 2014-12-23 12:30:18 <michagogo> Hm, why is BIP42 still a Draft?
 712 2014-12-23 12:30:19 <midnightmagic> true enough
 713 2014-12-23 12:30:25 <michagogo> (gmaxwell: ^)
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 715 2014-12-23 12:32:08 <wumpus> midnightmagic: it is still actively developed, though they had a shift in focus toward QML, 'widgets' is more and more considered legacy code
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 717 2014-12-23 12:32:22 <wumpus> midnightmagic: which is a pity, I like widgets.
 718 2014-12-23 12:32:45 <wumpus> anyhow, the network code should still be actively maintained
 719 2014-12-23 12:33:01 <midnightmagic> hrmm
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 726 2014-12-23 12:35:20 <wumpus> hopefully when this mobile/web draw-your-own-UI hype is over, the pendulum will return to sane, standard, reusable, accessibility-friendly widgets
 727 2014-12-23 12:36:14 <sipa> wumpus: we should probably disable autodetecting/using gmp in libsecp in bitcoin 0.10, or you may end up with an unintended bitcoin dependency
 728 2014-12-23 12:36:31 <wumpus> sipa: ACK
 729 2014-12-23 12:37:07 <sipa> do you want an update to master, or just a hotfix?
 730 2014-12-23 12:37:45 <wumpus> a hotfix for just 0.10 is fine in this case, for master it will be part of the regular secp256k1 update I suppose
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 733 2014-12-23 12:38:51 <sipa> ok, sounds good
 734 2014-12-23 12:41:34 <jonasschnelli> sipa: regarding a possible new wallet format: did you also had in mind a append-only key/value store, reverse read-in?
 735 2014-12-23 12:42:04 <jonasschnelli> (and a optional compact write to reorganize and optimize the store)
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 737 2014-12-23 12:48:15 <sipa> jonasschnelli: yes, but forward read :)
 738 2014-12-23 12:48:43 <sipa> just replace items.in your memory map while reading
 739 2014-12-23 12:48:52 <sipa> so the last write counts
 740 2014-12-23 12:49:11 <jonasschnelli> Why not reverse read and skip already read keys?
 741 2014-12-23 12:49:58 <jonasschnelli> (keys means key/value keys)
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 746 2014-12-23 12:54:14 <wumpus> my primary requirement for the wallet format would be that the new format, once introduced, is designed to be both forwards and backwards compatible
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 748 2014-12-23 12:57:28 <jonasschnelli> wumpus: Yes. Thats a good idea.
 749 2014-12-23 12:58:17 <jonasschnelli> But brings in the question of a ideal serialization format.
 750 2014-12-23 12:58:22 <wumpus> (the only other sane way would be to make the wallet format incrediblely version-dependent, then make sure the upgrader exports in a portable format and re-imports, but it sounds much more fickle...)
 751 2014-12-23 12:58:51 <wumpus> so only backups would be in a portable format
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 754 2014-12-23 13:00:10 <wumpus> jonasschnelli: as it is bound to the block chain our own serialization format is extremely stable, if bitcoin still exists in 100 years, it's bound to have changed little
 755 2014-12-23 13:00:36 <jonasschnelli> Yes. It's good. But can it be read reverse?
 756 2014-12-23 13:00:51 <wumpus> as sipa says, I wouldn't bother with reading reverse
 757 2014-12-23 13:01:05 <wumpus> of course you could, with appropriate framing
 758 2014-12-23 13:01:21 <jonasschnelli> add a header envelope.
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 760 2014-12-23 13:02:04 <jonasschnelli> I mean take Jouke >200'000 tx wallet... backward reading would make sense there..
 761 2014-12-23 13:02:24 <wumpus> why? you still need to read through all of it
 762 2014-12-23 13:02:38 <wumpus> and if you have to read through the entire file, reading forward is much faster
 763 2014-12-23 13:02:40 <jonasschnelli> yes. But you can skip a lot of things.
 764 2014-12-23 13:03:05 <jonasschnelli> if might end up fseek the most part
 765 2014-12-23 13:03:10 <gmaxwell> You may have a mistaken impression about how big a typical wallet is?
 766 2014-12-23 13:03:29 <gmaxwell> feesking backworks skipping only a few kb at a time is not going to be hugely fast.
 767 2014-12-23 13:03:44 xenog has joined
 768 2014-12-23 13:04:11 <jonasschnelli> Thats true. But when we have to change of writing a new format...
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 770 2014-12-23 13:04:21 <jonasschnelli> But yes. Maybe a simple forward read is okay.
 771 2014-12-23 13:04:22 <wumpus> I'd recommend against premature optimization
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 776 2014-12-23 13:07:43 <wumpus> the overarching goal would still be to have a stable, straightforward, secure, reference implmentation of a wallet, not the fastest possible one
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 779 2014-12-23 13:09:16 <sipa> jonasschnelli: what benefit does skipping already read keys offer? you still need to skip them; likely you need exactly the same sectors from disk, and forward sequential reads are far faster than seeks
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 781 2014-12-23 13:09:32 <sipa> you still need to go through the entire file in any case
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 783 2014-12-23 13:09:49 <jonasschnelli> sipa: yes. for memory mapping yes.
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 785 2014-12-23 13:10:31 <sipa> i'm still unclear what benefit you think it would have :)
 786 2014-12-23 13:10:34 <wumpus> if the goal is pure speed, using one of the existing database solution is preferable to NIH'ing it,but we don't want that as we want a stable straightforward format
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 788 2014-12-23 13:11:11 <sipa> how about using ASN.1? *ducks*
 789 2014-12-23 13:11:24 <wumpus> hehe
 790 2014-12-23 13:11:48 <sipa> or JSONx
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 792 2014-12-23 13:13:15 <jonasschnelli> Truly. In our case backward reading makes not that much sense. It would make sense if we would append-overwrite keys in the store and lookup records from disk.
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 796 2014-12-23 13:13:39 <sipa> ok
 797 2014-12-23 13:14:15 <sipa> jonasschnelli: i have a >2 year old branch here: https://github.com/sipa/bitcoin/commits/logdb
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 799 2014-12-23 13:18:00 <jonasschnelli> sipa... hmm.. nice.
 800 2014-12-23 13:19:10 <bedeho> can OP_CHECKMULTISIG be used with all signature types? (ALL, NONE, SINGLE, ANYONECANPAY)
 801 2014-12-23 13:19:24 <jonasschnelli> sipa: so you checksum everything with SHA256 there?
 802 2014-12-23 13:19:27 <sipa> jonasschnelli: yes
 803 2014-12-23 13:20:04 <jonasschnelli> sipa: makes more sense then crc32
 804 2014-12-23 13:20:59 <sipa> it's truncated sha256, but it's computed over _all_ data in the file, with checkpoints after every write
 805 2014-12-23 13:21:28 <wumpus> nice approach
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 807 2014-12-23 13:22:07 <jonasschnelli> sipa: and how do you serialize?
 808 2014-12-23 13:22:21 <sipa> jonasschnelli: bitcoin does the serialization
 809 2014-12-23 13:22:32 <sipa> logdb just writes byte-array key-value pairs
 810 2014-12-23 13:23:32 <jonasschnelli> so, CLogDBFile::Flush_() does the persistent file store?
 811 2014-12-23 13:23:43 <sipa> ehhhh i'd have to look at the file :)
 812 2014-12-23 13:24:06 <sipa> wumpus: i don't think i ever submitted a PR for a non-master branch
 813 2014-12-23 13:24:12 <sipa> #5531 is
 814 2014-12-23 13:24:15 <jonasschnelli> sipa: yes. sorry for questioning you... :)
 815 2014-12-23 13:24:16 <wumpus> sipa: thanks
 816 2014-12-23 13:24:27 <sipa> jonasschnelli: heh, i'd be glad if someone picks it up
 817 2014-12-23 13:24:59 <jonasschnelli> i try to shift in your commits and extend it....
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 819 2014-12-23 13:25:25 <sipa> it needs error recovery etc
 820 2014-12-23 13:25:31 <jonasschnelli> whats basically missing is the optional switch between a bdb and logdb wallet
 821 2014-12-23 13:25:39 <sipa> i wouldn't have such a switch
 822 2014-12-23 13:25:47 <sipa> just an external tool that can convert between them
 823 2014-12-23 13:26:02 <jonasschnelli> but what if people like to stick to bdb?
 824 2014-12-23 13:26:11 <sipa> then they're pretty crazy
 825 2014-12-23 13:26:22 <jonasschnelli> i would go the depracate in V0.11, remove in V0.12 approach
 826 2014-12-23 13:26:23 <sipa> sorry just joking; sure, maybe for some time support both
 827 2014-12-23 13:26:37 <wumpus> I would really not like to support both
 828 2014-12-23 13:26:43 <sipa> but i would really prefer rewriting the wallet from scratch
 829 2014-12-23 13:26:44 <jonasschnelli> (don't take the version numbers serious!)
 830 2014-12-23 13:26:57 <sipa> and do things sanely from the start
 831 2014-12-23 13:27:03 <jonasschnelli> no fears of breaking user wallets
 832 2014-12-23 13:27:03 <jonasschnelli> ?
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 834 2014-12-23 13:27:43 <wumpus> jonasschnelli: as said, I'd just do a clean break, ie freeze the current wallet code (not much needed for that), make a newwallet branch and merge it when the whole thing is ready
 835 2014-12-23 13:28:15 <sipa> maybe someone (not us) wants to maintain a branch with the old wallet code around
 836 2014-12-23 13:28:23 <wumpus> exactly
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 838 2014-12-23 13:28:47 <sipa> and breaking user wallets... well, it's probably near impossible to make the external interface 100% identical
 839 2014-12-23 13:29:14 <wumpus> there will of course need to be a conversion tool distributed with the release, and some wizard to call it automatically for UI users
 840 2014-12-23 13:29:35 <wumpus> sipa: yup
 841 2014-12-23 13:29:48 <jonasschnelli> sipa: so you say the CWallet should also be written from the scratch?
 842 2014-12-23 13:29:57 <sipa> yes
 843 2014-12-23 13:30:10 <sipa> (says the person who introduced the CWallet class to begin with...)
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 845 2014-12-23 13:30:47 <wumpus> you could start from scratch, or at least do a big reorganization, don't know what approach is preferable
 846 2014-12-23 13:31:01 <sipa> well... there will be significant parts of reusable code
 847 2014-12-23 13:31:05 <sipa> like the coin selection
 848 2014-12-23 13:31:24 <wumpus> it's fine to delete the account system, change the RPC interface
 849 2014-12-23 13:32:03 <wumpus> there will be a lot of code that just works where it makes no sense to rewrite
 850 2014-12-23 13:32:26 <jonasschnelli> many parts of CWallet looks fine to me
 851 2014-12-23 13:32:28 <wumpus> if anything, rewriting too enthousiastically just introduces bugs
 852 2014-12-23 13:33:01 <sipa> well those who don't know history are doomed to repeat it; and most commonly the reason for wanting to rewrite code is because you don't understand the reasons why the original was so complex to begin with
 853 2014-12-23 13:33:05 <jonasschnelli> - acount system, + multiple wallet
 854 2014-12-23 13:33:09 <sipa> + spv
 855 2014-12-23 13:33:15 <sipa> - bdb
 856 2014-12-23 13:33:25 <wumpus> sounds like a good aim
 857 2014-12-23 13:33:39 <jonasschnelli> yes. spv could be my 2nd goal for 2015...
 858 2014-12-23 13:34:00 <sipa> *challenge accepted*
 859 2014-12-23 13:34:04 <sipa> (make spv work in 2014 :p)
 860 2014-12-23 13:34:11 <jonasschnelli> ha
 861 2014-12-23 13:34:17 <jonasschnelli> where's your branch? :)
 862 2014-12-23 13:34:23 <sipa> I HAVE A WEKK
 863 2014-12-23 13:35:00 <fanquake> sipa You’d have less time if you were here :P
 864 2014-12-23 13:35:19 <sipa> you mean the christman and newyear thing?
 865 2014-12-23 13:36:04 <fanquake> nah, I’m pretty sure we’re just ahead (time wise) of everyone else
 866 2014-12-23 13:37:19 <sipa> australia?
 867 2014-12-23 13:38:01 <fanquake> G’day
 868 2014-12-23 13:38:35 <sipa> damn stray aliens
 869 2014-12-23 13:39:34 <fanquake> It’s to hot to worry about christmas here, you should be happy to just survive dec/jan/feb
 870 2014-12-23 13:39:46 <gmaxwell> sipa: headers first was a really significant part of that work in any case.
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 872 2014-12-23 13:39:51 <sipa> gmaxwell: yes :)
 873 2014-12-23 13:40:14 <gmaxwell> it kinda works, in fact already because of that. :P
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 912 2014-12-23 14:42:10 <sipa> wumpus: no more 0.10 milestones?
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 914 2014-12-23 14:43:11 <wumpus> sipa: nope, will tag 0.10rc1 after I finish writing the release notes
 915 2014-12-23 14:43:23 <sipa> want me to review them?
 916 2014-12-23 14:43:42 <wumpus> sure, will pass them here first
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 918 2014-12-23 14:44:05 <wumpus> still ~400 commits to go through
 919 2014-12-23 14:44:09 <sipa> wow
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 924 2014-12-23 14:50:15 <michagogo> wumpus: do you think 0.9.4 will happen?
 925 2014-12-23 14:50:25 <michagogo> (should I keep the 0.9 deps?)
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 927 2014-12-23 14:50:50 <wumpus> michagogo: that's impossible to say, in general if an important fix is needed it will happen
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 929 2014-12-23 14:51:16 <michagogo> I guess we're just at the start of the 0.10 release cycle
 930 2014-12-23 14:51:28 <michagogo> I guess I'll keep it around... pretty sure I have the space
 931 2014-12-23 14:51:29 <sipa> i'd say we'll need a successor to 0.9.3 in any case if we want to do BIP62/CTLV/..., as those will need backports
 932 2014-12-23 14:52:44 <michagogo> It annoys me that each time Ubuntu updates Linux, the vbox guest additions need to be reinstalled again
 933 2014-12-23 14:53:02 <wumpus> well, BIP62/CTLV needs to be happen in 0.11
 934 2014-12-23 14:53:12 <wumpus> so I'd indeed say yes then
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 949 2014-12-23 15:19:51 <michagogo> wumpus: Is there a way to gbuild just the deps?
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 951 2014-12-23 15:21:58 <michagogo> oh, can I just comment out the actual build in the descriptor?
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 961 2014-12-23 15:39:12 <wumpus> sure
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 963 2014-12-23 15:40:54 <wumpus> phew, 0.10 preliminary release notes: https://gist.github.com/laanwj/c94f5222aadb3fc8fe1a
 964 2014-12-23 15:40:57 <wumpus> @sipa
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 967 2014-12-23 15:45:58 <sipa> wumpus: oh, update the builtin seeds now?
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 982 2014-12-23 16:11:14 <michagogo> Ooh, getwork's dead?
 983 2014-12-23 16:11:25 <michagogo> About time...
 984 2014-12-23 16:12:59 <michagogo> Heh, I remember https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/commit/6c37f7f
 985 2014-12-23 16:13:14 <michagogo> (I think I may have been that user, actually?)
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 987 2014-12-23 16:14:23 <michagogo> wumpus: 6b407e4 -datadir is now allowed in config files
 988 2014-12-23 16:14:33 <michagogo> That's not a command-line option change
 989 2014-12-23 16:14:46 <michagogo> It's just an update to the debian doc
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 991 2014-12-23 16:16:56 <michagogo> Um, why is "45a4baf Add testnet DNS seed of Andreas Schildbach" in "Block and transaction handling:"?
 992 2014-12-23 16:17:13 <michagogo> While "c30329a Add testnet DNS seed of Alex Kotenko" is in "P2P protocol and network code:"
 993 2014-12-23 16:18:13 <michagogo> And I don't think "9765a50 Implement BIP 23 Block Proposal" belongs in there, that's RPC, not P2P
 994 2014-12-23 16:19:24 <wumpus> sipa: makes sense
 995 2014-12-23 16:20:17 <wumpus> BIP 23 is network not RPC
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 997 2014-12-23 16:20:33 <wumpus> you're right that the seed updates belong under P2P though
 998 2014-12-23 16:20:33 <michagogo> wumpus: hm? Isn't it a mining rpc?
 999 2014-12-23 16:20:46 <michagogo> (the file edited is rpcmining.cpp...)
1000 2014-12-23 16:21:02 <wumpus> michagogo: oh, than I'm confused
1001 2014-12-23 16:21:30 <michagogo> Also, is the osx detached signing being done in 0.10.0? Don't see it under build
1002 2014-12-23 16:21:32 <wumpus> I generally consider BIP == network level, but mining is special here
1003 2014-12-23 16:21:58 <wumpus> michagogo: what commit?
1004 2014-12-23 16:22:06 * michagogo looks
1005 2014-12-23 16:22:53 <wumpus> michagogo: you may have to ask cfields there, I don't follow macosx that closely
1006 2014-12-23 16:23:27 pewpsewp has joined
1007 2014-12-23 16:23:35 <michagogo> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/commit/914868a05dfcae0f766283e0065aa36762cc5abe
1008 2014-12-23 16:24:09 <michagogo> Hm, says it's just in master
1009 2014-12-23 16:24:21 <wumpus> ok
1010 2014-12-23 16:24:27 <michagogo> Wait, when did 0.10 branch off?
1011 2014-12-23 16:24:32 <michagogo> More than a month ago?
1012 2014-12-23 16:24:56 <wumpus> you can easily ask that to git instead of to us
1013 2014-12-23 16:25:56 <michagogo> ;;google git find out when a branch was created
1014 2014-12-23 16:25:57 <gribble> How to determine when a Git branch was created? - Stack Overflow: <http://stackoverflow.com/questions/2255416/how-to-determine-when-a-git-branch-was-created>; find out when a git branch was created (not the first commit to that ...: <http://stackoverflow.com/questions/18277841/find-out-when-a-git-branch-was-created-not-the-first-commit-to-that-branch>; What is the easiest/fastest way (1 more message)
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1017 2014-12-23 16:27:53 <michagogo> Thu Dec 11 13:17:34 2014 +0100
1018 2014-12-23 16:28:03 <michagogo> So yes, the deterministic build should be in
1019 2014-12-23 16:28:16 <michagogo> erm
1020 2014-12-23 16:28:23 <michagogo> s/build/signing/
1021 2014-12-23 16:28:48 <michagogo> Which is supported by release-process and the descriptors dir... which I should have checked in the first place...
1022 2014-12-23 16:28:51 <sipa> wumpus: i'll send a PR for updating the seeds in 10 min (that's when dnsseeder dumps again... seems i overwrote the previous one)
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1024 2014-12-23 16:29:10 <michagogo> wumpus: so that also needs to get added
1025 2014-12-23 16:29:23 <wumpus> michagogo: git branch --contains
1026 2014-12-23 16:29:35 <wumpus> michagogo: and yes, it's in there
1027 2014-12-23 16:29:53 <michagogo> Ah, good to know
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1029 2014-12-23 16:30:18 <wumpus> sipa: great!
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1031 2014-12-23 16:32:33 <wumpus> michagogo: ok, updated, thanks for the comments
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1033 2014-12-23 16:34:15 <michagogo> Still reading, haven't refreshed yet, but some of the misc things could be elsewhere, I think.
1034 2014-12-23 16:34:25 <michagogo> For example, "f9de17e Add warning comment to getinfo" could probably be rpc?
1035 2014-12-23 16:34:48 <michagogo> Oh, it's just  comment
1036 2014-12-23 16:34:52 <michagogo> +a
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1039 2014-12-23 16:35:29 <wumpus> yeah, some are in a grey area
1040 2014-12-23 16:35:32 <michagogo> "76ec867 Use actually valid transactions for script tests" and "c8589bf Add actual signature tests" should probably be under tests, though
1041 2014-12-23 16:35:42 <wumpus> I don't really want arguments about what belongs there unless it's clear-cut wrong
1042 2014-12-23 16:36:01 <wumpus> what belongs where*
1043 2014-12-23 16:37:13 <michagogo> I'd argue that those two (and maybe "219a147 script: check ScriptError values in script tests", in validation atm, as well?) are pretty clear-cut
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1045 2014-12-23 16:37:27 <michagogo> They update/improve the tests
1046 2014-12-23 16:37:39 <michagogo> And we have a Tests category
1047 2014-12-23 16:37:57 <michagogo> Anyway, just finished reading it, looks pretty good
1048 2014-12-23 16:38:09 <michagogo> Though I didn't go through in-depth, just skimmed it
1049 2014-12-23 16:39:18 <michagogo> Hm, only question I have is are there any other features that we want to mention in the written notes, and not just the commit list
1050 2014-12-23 16:39:23 <michagogo> For example, watch-only
1051 2014-12-23 16:39:34 <sipa> watch-only addresses may be worth a section of its own
1052 2014-12-23 16:39:54 <michagogo> sipa: right, that's what I mean
1053 2014-12-23 16:40:02 <wumpus> michagogo:yes, good idea, feel free to write a section about it
1054 2014-12-23 16:40:19 <wumpus> although watch-only is still experimental
1055 2014-12-23 16:40:23 <michagogo> I don't know enough about it
1056 2014-12-23 16:40:26 <wumpus> ie, it hasn't been added to the GUI on purpose
1057 2014-12-23 16:40:29 <michagogo> (also I'm a terrible writer)
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1059 2014-12-23 16:42:05 <wumpus> libbitcoinconsensus probably needs a section of its own too
1060 2014-12-23 16:42:15 <michagogo> Maybe also bitcoin-tx
1061 2014-12-23 16:42:25 <michagogo> (maybe not)
1062 2014-12-23 16:42:26 <wumpus> yes
1063 2014-12-23 16:42:29 <wumpus> ping @jgarzik
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1066 2014-12-23 16:44:27 <jgarzik> wumpus, ?
1067 2014-12-23 16:44:42 <wumpus> jgarzik: mind writing something about bitcoin-tx for the 0.10 release notes?
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1069 2014-12-23 16:44:55 <sipa> i can write something about watch-only addresses
1070 2014-12-23 16:45:01 <jgarzik> wumpus, sure
1071 2014-12-23 16:45:34 <michagogo> D'you think anything should be said about getwork? (i.e. is anyone anywhere still using it, and would need to know it's out?)
1072 2014-12-23 16:45:37 <wumpus> sipa: ok, that'd be nice, the seed update is more urgent though :)
1073 2014-12-23 16:45:55 <sipa> wumpus: #5532
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1075 2014-12-23 16:48:16 <wumpus> michagogo: it's mentioned under RPC changes, I think that's enough
1076 2014-12-23 16:48:25 <michagogo> wumpus: yeah, probably
1077 2014-12-23 16:49:40 <michagogo> Erm, I think I found a bug with the cache
1078 2014-12-23 16:49:51 <michagogo> idk if it's a bug in gitian or in our descriptors
1079 2014-12-23 16:52:36 <sipa> wumpus: can you maybe just commit the release notes to the 0.10 repository, so there can be PRs suggested etc for it, and it won't get out of sync with the tree if we do changes in rcs?
1080 2014-12-23 16:52:51 <michagogo> http://paste.ubuntu.com/9604904/
1081 2014-12-23 16:53:52 <michagogo> I created gitian-builder/cache and gitian-builder/cache/common, and put all the deps' tarballs (that I had, at least) into the latter
1082 2014-12-23 16:54:25 <michagogo> gitian-builder/cache/bitcoin-linux-0.10 was created, but is empty
1083 2014-12-23 16:54:35 <wumpus> sipa: yes
1084 2014-12-23 16:55:42 <wumpus> sipa: I intend to do that, but first wanted to fix initial commits on IRC, so that the commit log doesn't become a mess of small updates to the changelog
1085 2014-12-23 16:55:56 <sipa> right, sure
1086 2014-12-23 16:56:35 <michagogo> gitian-builder/cache/cache is created, inside it there's common, which is a copy of cache/common, and bitcoin-linux-0.10 which does have all our built deps
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1090 2014-12-23 17:00:34 <wumpus> michagogo: weird
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1099 2014-12-23 17:11:10 <gavinandresen> wumpus: release notes look good to me after a quick read-through
1100 2014-12-23 17:11:31 <sipa> wumpus: https://gist.github.com/sipa/df19edb59e96853754bb
1101 2014-12-23 17:11:41 timothy has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1102 2014-12-23 17:11:46 <sipa> and of course, s/not/now/ in the first sentence...
1103 2014-12-23 17:12:52 aphoriser has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
1104 2014-12-23 17:13:15 <gavinandresen> Even better: “The wallet can now track….”
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1108 2014-12-23 17:14:14 <sipa> gavinandresen: done
1109 2014-12-23 17:14:18 <gavinandresen> … because it is possible to write in a more active voice….
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1111 2014-12-23 17:14:38 <wumpus> sipa: thanks, looks good to me, will add
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1113 2014-12-23 17:15:13 <wumpus> I think you can leave out the word 'relevant' before private keys without change of meaning
1114 2014-12-23 17:15:25 <sipa> go ahead and remove it when copyin
1115 2014-12-23 17:15:35 <wumpus> ok
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1117 2014-12-23 17:20:43 <wumpus> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/0.10/doc/release-notes.md
1118 2014-12-23 17:22:58 <hearn> have there been any 0.10 rcs yet?
1119 2014-12-23 17:23:29 <sipa> no
1120 2014-12-23 17:23:34 <sipa> verrrrry soon
1121 2014-12-23 17:24:03 <sipa> wumpus: i'd like a section about libconsensus too
1122 2014-12-23 17:25:10 <wumpus> sipa: yes, working on that
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1124 2014-12-23 17:25:16 <sipa> ah cool, thanks
1125 2014-12-23 17:25:32 <wumpus> Luke-Jr: did you perhaps already write a blorb about libbitcoinconsensus? I see you've made an ebuild
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1130 2014-12-23 17:30:14 <sipa> wumpus: do we want a list of all new command-line flags/rpcs?
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1132 2014-12-23 17:30:39 <wumpus> sipa: I've tried to do that in the RPC and command line sections, though I may have missed some
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1134 2014-12-23 17:31:09 <wumpus> (ie, if they're not mentioned in commit messages)
1135 2014-12-23 17:31:41 <wumpus> feel free to add ones, but I wouldn't recommend adding another section for it, to avoid duplication
1136 2014-12-23 17:31:43 Shiftos has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
1137 2014-12-23 17:31:48 <sipa> ok, agree
1138 2014-12-23 17:31:51 <sipa> i'll compare the code
1139 2014-12-23 17:34:37 Shiftos has joined
1140 2014-12-23 17:37:38 <sipa> wumpus: since 0.9.0 or 0.9.3 (though i doubt much changed in between)
1141 2014-12-23 17:38:08 <wumpus> 0.9.3 is the reference point
1142 2014-12-23 17:38:45 <wumpus> after all, if it is already in a 0.9 release it's not new
1143 2014-12-23 17:39:06 * michagogo wonders why people call them command-line flags when mostly they're config flags that can also be specified on the command line
1144 2014-12-23 17:40:23 <hearn> where is CTransaction declared these days?
1145 2014-12-23 17:40:35 <sipa> primitives/transaction.h
1146 2014-12-23 17:40:49 <hearn> thanks
1147 2014-12-23 17:41:55 jps has left ()
1148 2014-12-23 17:41:56 <wumpus> michagogo: because they're described as command line flags (ie, with the - before them), it is also possible to specify them in bitcoin.conf, but that's not relevant to the release notes
1149 2014-12-23 17:42:04 jps has joined
1150 2014-12-23 17:42:55 <wumpus> michagogo: although strictly spoken the config file options are a subset of command line options, as -conf cannot be specified in the configuration file :-)
1151 2014-12-23 17:44:08 <sipa> wumpus: quite a few!
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1157 2014-12-23 17:57:41 <sipa> wumpus: i think we also need to mention -disablewallet?
1158 2014-12-23 17:57:46 <sipa> or was that in 0.9 already?
1159 2014-12-23 17:58:27 <wumpus> yes, that's old hat
1160 2014-12-23 17:59:52 <wumpus> re: consensus libarary http://www.hastebin.com/raranivami.md
1161 2014-12-23 18:01:20 <petertodd> wumpus: should mention the P2SH IsStandard() relaxation briefly
1162 2014-12-23 18:01:21 simondlr has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
1163 2014-12-23 18:01:44 <sipa> yup
1164 2014-12-23 18:01:48 <sipa> and -rest
1165 2014-12-23 18:02:04 <wumpus> petertodd: feel free to write something about it
1166 2014-12-23 18:04:41 amarha has joined
1167 2014-12-23 18:04:50 benrcole has joined
1168 2014-12-23 18:04:59 <wumpus> I've mentioned the commit `7f3b4e9` Relax IsStandard rules for pay-to-script-hash transactions under Block and Transaction handling
1169 2014-12-23 18:05:55 <petertodd> wumpus: sure, and about 40 others commits :) lemme write up a few sentences
1170 2014-12-23 18:06:51 <sipa> many of the other ones are probably already listed under 'Tests'
1171 2014-12-23 18:07:17 user7779078 has joined
1172 2014-12-23 18:07:30 <wumpus> yes, lots of tests
1173 2014-12-23 18:07:38 <sipa> um
1174 2014-12-23 18:07:44 <sipa> wth is -maptxfee? :D
1175 2014-12-23 18:08:05 <sipa> (it's only used in the help text)
1176 2014-12-23 18:09:00 <wumpus> only in an error message, it seems
1177 2014-12-23 18:09:48 <cfields> jonasschnelli: did you end up having any luck with gitian?
1178 2014-12-23 18:10:27 <wumpus> cfields: michagogo had a strange issue with gititan and depends caching
1179 2014-12-23 18:10:38 stavs has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1180 2014-12-23 18:10:47 <wumpus> cfields: he ended up with a nested cache/common directory
1181 2014-12-23 18:11:06 <cfields> nested?
1182 2014-12-23 18:11:18 Profreid has quit (Quit: Profreid)
1183 2014-12-23 18:11:47 <wumpus> yes, I think he can explain better himself, but things were not ending up in the place they were supposed to be
1184 2014-12-23 18:11:59 <cfields> michagogo: around?
1185 2014-12-23 18:12:14 <michagogo> cfields: no
1186 2014-12-23 18:12:18 <michagogo> but i will be in a few
1187 2014-12-23 18:12:35 <cfields> confusing, but ok :)
1188 2014-12-23 18:15:28 <cfields> michagogo: yes, the dmg signer is in 0.10
1189 2014-12-23 18:16:40 <petertodd> wumpus: how's this: https://gist.github.com/petertodd/df3dcf7f0df7b5b9bf13
1190 2014-12-23 18:17:07 <petertodd> wumpus: just want to be sure that application authors who might want to use this stuff know the rules have been relaxed; don't need to go into further detail IMO
1191 2014-12-23 18:19:57 ryanxcharles has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
1192 2014-12-23 18:20:10 hearn has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
1193 2014-12-23 18:22:51 <sipa> so: added command-line options: -blockversion, -datacarriersize, -logips, -maxtxfee, -permitbaremultisig, -rest, -rpcbind, -sendfreetransactions, -stopafterblockimport, -sysperms, -txconfirmtarget, -whitebind, -whitelist
1194 2014-12-23 18:23:21 Diablo-D3 has quit (Quit: do coders dream of sheep()?)
1195 2014-12-23 18:25:27 CoinMuncher has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
1196 2014-12-23 18:25:43 Diablo-D3 has joined
1197 2014-12-23 18:25:44 <sipa> added RPCs: estimatefee, estimatepriority, getchaintips, getmempoolinfo, importaddress, invalidateblock, reconsiderblock, prioritizetransaction, setmocktime; getwork was removed
1198 2014-12-23 18:26:47 <sipa> oh and removed options: -maxorphanblocks, -maxsigcachesize, -printblock, -printblockindex, -printblocktree, -socks,
1199 2014-12-23 18:26:55 ThomasV has joined
1200 2014-12-23 18:27:15 <wumpus> petertodd: looks good to me
1201 2014-12-23 18:27:30 <wumpus> sipa: that's a lot
1202 2014-12-23 18:27:33 <sipa> yup
1203 2014-12-23 18:28:07 <wumpus> *most* of those are mentioned under RPC/command line changes, though not all, e.g. -logips
1204 2014-12-23 18:28:16 <wumpus> and -rest
1205 2014-12-23 18:29:18 <michagogo> cfields: http://paste.ubuntu.com/9605543/
1206 2014-12-23 18:29:53 <michagogo> cfields: I created cache and cache/common, put the input sources that I had from 0.9.x and earlier in, and ran gitian
1207 2014-12-23 18:29:58 <michagogo> So far, linux and windows
1208 2014-12-23 18:30:35 <michagogo> Basically, common cache is duplicated in cache/common and in cache/cache/common
1209 2014-12-23 18:30:38 <cfields> michagogo: strange
1210 2014-12-23 18:30:41 <michagogo> And there's a cache/cache
1211 2014-12-23 18:30:50 <cfields> did you use any symlinks?
1212 2014-12-23 18:30:54 <michagogo> which includes the per-descriptor cache
1213 2014-12-23 18:31:01 <michagogo> Nope, no symlinks
1214 2014-12-23 18:31:17 <michagogo> In gitian-builder, I used mkdir cache;mkdir cache/common
1215 2014-12-23 18:31:31 <michagogo> And then put the files into cache/common
1216 2014-12-23 18:31:35 <michagogo> The rest is all gitian, afaik
1217 2014-12-23 18:31:45 <michagogo> idk if it's gitian itself or our descriptors
1218 2014-12-23 18:31:58 <cfields> michagogo: ok, i'm building now from scratch. setting up vbox on osx and following the docs
1219 2014-12-23 18:32:20 <michagogo> (this is with the descriptors as of f4dcc1e009c64c2f7415868960a1a7f4ed3fa287)
1220 2014-12-23 18:32:33 ThomasV has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
1221 2014-12-23 18:32:55 <cfields> michagogo: what OS?
1222 2014-12-23 18:33:07 <michagogo> Ubuntu 12.04
1223 2014-12-23 18:33:22 <michagogo> (in a VM on my Windows laptop, with gitian using lxc)
1224 2014-12-23 18:33:32 <cfields> ok
1225 2014-12-23 18:34:30 xMopxShe- is now known as xMopxShell
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1227 2014-12-23 18:35:38 <jonasschnelli> cfields: i gave up on gitian. I would say i'm not under-experienced in linux configuring... but its just time eating.
1228 2014-12-23 18:35:52 <jonasschnelli> KVM won't work in VMWare Fusion and VirtualBox
1229 2014-12-23 18:35:57 <cfields> jonasschnelli: fair enough
1230 2014-12-23 18:36:20 <jonasschnelli> I think i need to configure the LXC connection....
1231 2014-12-23 18:36:36 <jonasschnelli> but gitian does not work out-of-the-box, thats for sure.
1232 2014-12-23 18:37:05 Squidicuz has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
1233 2014-12-23 18:37:46 <wumpus> jonasschnelli: it used to just work if you followed the guide, but alas
1234 2014-12-23 18:38:04 <wumpus> these things go out of date too soon, it's almost not worth writing them
1235 2014-12-23 18:38:28 Diablo-D3 has quit (Quit: do coders dream of sheep()?)
1236 2014-12-23 18:38:46 <cfields> wumpus: i'm still trying to understand what's changed wrt the guide? the depends changes really shouldn't affect the initial setup at all afaik
1237 2014-12-23 18:38:51 <jonasschnelli> wumpus: i was following the exact steps. twice. Maybe it's the mac osx as host system or it's that i used a newer gitian master or ubuntu version
1238 2014-12-23 18:39:10 <wumpus> cfields: me neither, but debian and gitian changes may have
1239 2014-12-23 18:39:22 <wumpus> jonasschnelli: no, the host system has no influence on that
1240 2014-12-23 18:39:30 <jonasschnelli> gitian looks also totally ubuntu tied... it download stuff from ubuntu where the ubuntu gpg signatures keyring is missing on debian
1241 2014-12-23 18:39:32 <wumpus> that's the point of using a VM
1242 2014-12-23 18:39:40 Diablo-D3 has joined
1243 2014-12-23 18:39:49 <cfields> jonasschnelli: i'm creating a vm in vbox from osx now. using debian as the guide suggests. you did the same?
1244 2014-12-23 18:40:04 <jonasschnelli> cfields: yes.
1245 2014-12-23 18:40:09 <cfields> ok
1246 2014-12-23 18:41:07 <jonasschnelli> first error i got was while building the base images... apt-cacher-ng did not serve the right packages
1247 2014-12-23 18:41:12 <jonasschnelli> (while it was running)
1248 2014-12-23 18:41:28 <jonasschnelli> second i had error while gpg checking the packages because of a missing ubuntu keyrin
1249 2014-12-23 18:41:53 <wumpus> huh? it was a network problem right, it could not get access to your host at all
1250 2014-12-23 18:41:55 <jonasschnelli> third the gbuild could not get LXC part running
1251 2014-12-23 18:42:09 <jonasschnelli> no. Network was fine.
1252 2014-12-23 18:42:12 <wumpus> I don't remember anything about it serving the wrong packages
1253 2014-12-23 18:42:18 <jonasschnelli> apt-chacher-ng sane test workd fine.
1254 2014-12-23 18:42:24 <jonasschnelli> it lookt more gitian internal
1255 2014-12-23 18:42:30 <wumpus> yes, but could LXC access it?
1256 2014-12-23 18:42:43 <jonasschnelli> i changed from http://localhost:3124/<mirror> to http://<mirro>
1257 2014-12-23 18:42:55 <wumpus> eh, you shouldn't do that
1258 2014-12-23 18:43:03 <jonasschnelli> but it was working.. :)
1259 2014-12-23 18:43:17 <wumpus> ok...
1260 2014-12-23 18:43:36 <wumpus> I don't know anymore, I don't understand how it can be this broken suddenly
1261 2014-12-23 18:43:37 <wumpus> it's frustrating
1262 2014-12-23 18:43:38 <jonasschnelli> i couldn't figure out why the packages couldn't get loaded over apt-chacher-ng...
1263 2014-12-23 18:43:54 <jonasschnelli> curl on loclahost:3124 (or similar port) gave back a 403
1264 2014-12-23 18:44:04 jprichardson has joined
1265 2014-12-23 18:44:17 <wumpus> last time I used gitian it worked fine
1266 2014-12-23 18:44:27 <jonasschnelli> for me it just looks that gitian is unstable and inflexible when it comes to different oses
1267 2014-12-23 18:44:38 <jonasschnelli> s/inflexible/unflexibel
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1271 2014-12-23 18:45:05 <michagogo> Maybe the debian apt-cacher-ng broke?
1272 2014-12-23 18:45:15 * michagogo shrugs
1273 2014-12-23 18:45:17 <cfields> jonasschnelli: yes, very. i think that's why once someone gets it working, they don't change anything, just stick with it like that
1274 2014-12-23 18:45:25 <jonasschnelli> michagogo: ubuntu 14.10 did also not work
1275 2014-12-23 18:45:30 <michagogo> It works well for me in an 12.04 VM
1276 2014-12-23 18:45:36 <cfields> jonasschnelli: probably why everyone tells you how to set it up a bit differently, that's the secret sauce that worked for them once
1277 2014-12-23 18:45:37 <michagogo> I don't *think* it was very hard to set up
1278 2014-12-23 18:45:44 <jonasschnelli> maybe i should try with ubuntu 12.x
1279 2014-12-23 18:45:51 <wumpus> it really shouldn't matter
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1283 2014-12-23 18:47:23 <wumpus> works fine for me on ubuntu 14.04, with KVM instead of LXC though
1284 2014-12-23 18:47:34 <jonasschnelli> it would be so easy if someone could provide a prepared vm... but this would be against the security guidelines i assume. :)
1285 2014-12-23 18:47:51 <wumpus> jonasschnelli: the point of that guide was to set up a prepared vm
1286 2014-12-23 18:47:51 <jonasschnelli> wumpus: KVM inside VirtualBox?
1287 2014-12-23 18:48:00 <wumpus> jonasschnelli: no, not inside virtualbox
1288 2014-12-23 18:48:12 <wumpus> jonasschnelli: my only experience inside virtualbox is with debian
1289 2014-12-23 18:48:16 <michagogo> jonasschnelli: he has 14.04 running on hardware
1290 2014-12-23 18:48:17 <wumpus> and it worked great
1291 2014-12-23 18:48:33 <wumpus> then, a few months later, it;s completely broken
1292 2014-12-23 18:49:07 <jonasschnelli> maybe my system had just a bad day (or i had) and i have to try again by following exactly the guide again... :)
1293 2014-12-23 18:49:19 <michagogo> Honestly, I think trying to do it in Debian may be more trouble than it's worth
1294 2014-12-23 18:49:26 <wumpus> well IT WORKED
1295 2014-12-23 18:49:31 <michagogo> Well, until it didn't
1296 2014-12-23 18:49:44 <michagogo> I get the impression that gitian is designed to run in Ubuntu
1297 2014-12-23 18:49:47 <wumpus> it's so easy to be critical on the sidelines, why don't you write a guide that works for everyone?
1298 2014-12-23 18:50:05 <michagogo> I'm not saying that that's easily doable :P
1299 2014-12-23 18:50:09 <wumpus> I tried it, and I failed, and I'm not going to bother again
1300 2014-12-23 18:50:36 <btcdrak> does anyone know why 3 in this test here? https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/master/src/test/miner_tests.cpp#L253 an empty block is just created with just a coinbase tx
1301 2014-12-23 18:50:49 <michagogo> If I were to try it, I think I'd not try to be super-minimal
1302 2014-12-23 18:51:03 <btcdrak> wumpus the guide worked perfectly for me frankly, once the make download was fixed
1303 2014-12-23 18:51:03 simondlr has joined
1304 2014-12-23 18:51:34 <wumpus> btcdrak: nice
1305 2014-12-23 18:52:02 <btcdrak> so just needs to dun the make download before running gitian, it's not the end of the world imo
1306 2014-12-23 18:52:15 <btcdrak> and once it's done, and cached you can forget about it
1307 2014-12-23 18:53:06 SDCDev has joined
1308 2014-12-23 18:53:13 <michagogo> btcdrak: ...until the deps change
1309 2014-12-23 18:53:28 <wumpus> then you do make download again
1310 2014-12-23 18:53:32 <michagogo> But yeah, you can just make it a step before each build, as release-process says
1311 2014-12-23 18:53:50 <wumpus> anyhow it started with the networking of the builder breaking
1312 2014-12-23 18:53:58 <michagogo> I mean, it's a single command, from within the gitian dir, that gets everything and puts it in the right place
1313 2014-12-23 18:53:59 <wumpus> that has nothing to do with debian or ubuntu
1314 2014-12-23 18:54:05 <jonasschnelli> btcdrak: test: is it no because two tx got "mined" + coinbase?
1315 2014-12-23 18:55:17 simondlr has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
1316 2014-12-23 18:55:17 <cfields> wumpus: this is all very motivating to get native building hooked up :)
1317 2014-12-23 18:55:30 <jonasschnelli> +1
1318 2014-12-23 18:55:37 <wumpus> cfields: yes, although that won't help us anything with 0.10
1319 2014-12-23 18:56:03 <btcdrak> considering how much effort the new gitian builder system solves, an extra step of make download for me still a massive net gain.
1320 2014-12-23 18:56:13 <cfields> wumpus: sure, just thinking on it while stuff is installing
1321 2014-12-23 18:56:32 dbitcoin has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
1322 2014-12-23 18:57:04 K_a has joined
1323 2014-12-23 18:57:15 <wumpus> cfields: sure
1324 2014-12-23 18:59:21 dbitcoin has joined
1325 2014-12-23 19:00:05 <jgarzik> wumpus, added a comment to your gist, containing my blurb about bitcoin-tx
1326 2014-12-23 19:00:29 <jgarzik> wumpus, need a blurb about REST too, I presume
1327 2014-12-23 19:00:41 belcher has quit (Quit: Leaving)
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1329 2014-12-23 19:01:32 <bsm117532> Why is CAmount a **signed** int64?
1330 2014-12-23 19:01:59 berndj has joined
1331 2014-12-23 19:03:35 <wumpus> bsm117532: because signed int64s have always been used for amounts, and CAmount is just a typedef
1332 2014-12-23 19:03:48 <wumpus> jgarzik: OK, will add
1333 2014-12-23 19:04:03 <wumpus> jgarzik: yes, mentioning rest would be nice too
1334 2014-12-23 19:04:10 <bsm117532> Does anywhere need negative amounts?
1335 2014-12-23 19:05:16 <wumpus> bsm117532: apart from checks not sure, but changing it to unsigned would be extrememly dangerous, ie an underflow would give you infinite coins instead of a negative value that gets rejected
1336 2014-12-23 19:05:23 <wumpus> (well not infinite but...)
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1339 2014-12-23 19:06:03 belcher has joined
1340 2014-12-23 19:06:43 <wumpus> the total range of 21 million * 10^8 coins easily fits in signed int64 so it is not an issue
1341 2014-12-23 19:06:59 jprichardson has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1342 2014-12-23 19:07:11 benrcole1 has joined
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1344 2014-12-23 19:07:56 benrcole has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
1345 2014-12-23 19:09:09 <bsm117532> hmmm.  Indeed I just checked, and unsigned ints do underflow to negative signed ints.  boo.
1346 2014-12-23 19:09:58 <wumpus> let's just not mess with this
1347 2014-12-23 19:10:05 * bsm117532 throws and catches a python exception.
1348 2014-12-23 19:10:11 <bsm117532> wumpus: agreed
1349 2014-12-23 19:10:24 <bsm117532> was just curious
1350 2014-12-23 19:13:18 <wumpus> oh, sure, no problem
1351 2014-12-23 19:18:38 JackH has joined
1352 2014-12-23 19:19:22 <jonasschnelli> wumpus: changelog: when adding rest infos, it's probably worth mentioning the -rest flag or linking to https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/master/doc/REST-interface.md
1353 2014-12-23 19:19:48 <wumpus> jonasschnelli: yes
1354 2014-12-23 19:20:15 <jonasschnelli> but was the changelog always so precise? well done!
1355 2014-12-23 19:20:18 <wumpus> jonasschnelli: doc/REST-interface.md is a nice description of the API
1356 2014-12-23 19:20:56 <wumpus> jonasschnelli: yes, we just have a shitload of commits this time
1357 2014-12-23 19:21:30 Tjopper has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1358 2014-12-23 19:21:57 <wumpus> and thanks
1359 2014-12-23 19:23:08 <wumpus> jgarzik: I've added your bitcoin-tx description 
1360 2014-12-23 19:23:58 Aquent has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1361 2014-12-23 19:24:01 <wumpus> I think it's time to tag 0.10.0rc1, it's not a problem to have changes to the release notes after that
1362 2014-12-23 19:24:13 NewLiberty is now known as NewLiberty-AFK
1363 2014-12-23 19:25:17 <jgarzik> wumpus, ACK
1364 2014-12-23 19:25:29 <jgarzik> jonasschnelli, yes
1365 2014-12-23 19:28:01 <sipa> bsm117532: accounts can go negative for one
1366 2014-12-23 19:28:20 <wumpus>  * [new tag]         v0.10.0rc1 -> v0.10.0rc1
1367 2014-12-23 19:28:27 <sipa> W0000000T
1368 2014-12-23 19:28:33 <wumpus> woohooo
1369 2014-12-23 19:29:01 <michagogo> wumpus: nice timing
1370 2014-12-23 19:29:06 <michagogo> Just finished building all the deps
1371 2014-12-23 19:29:23 * michagogo pops a confetti bottle thing
1372 2014-12-23 19:29:51 <sipa> so, fire up the barbeque?
1373 2014-12-23 19:29:54 <sipa> i mean the gitian
1374 2014-12-23 19:30:02 <bsm117532> woot!!
1375 2014-12-23 19:31:00 <bsm117532> sipa: how can an account be negative?  Such a tx would be rejected, no?  utxo's cant be negative...
1376 2014-12-23 19:31:11 <sipa> bsm117532: accounts have nothing to do with transactions
1377 2014-12-23 19:31:18 <sipa> or even with the protocol
1378 2014-12-23 19:31:36 <wumpus> accounts are a wallet-only feature, it's just that CAmount is used there too
1379 2014-12-23 19:31:48 <bsm117532> I'm very confused.  All balances are positive.  What are you talking about?
1380 2014-12-23 19:32:01 <sipa> they're a local (and confusing, to-be-obsoleted) feature that was once added to support services that keep other user's coins
1381 2014-12-23 19:32:23 <bsm117532> Maybe I've never seen an "account" then.
1382 2014-12-23 19:32:34 <wumpus> be happy then and don't worry about it bsm117532
1383 2014-12-23 19:32:38 <bsm117532> ;-)
1384 2014-12-23 19:32:46 <sipa> if you really want to: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Accounts_explained
1385 2014-12-23 19:32:57 <michagogo> But you shouldn't use accounts
1386 2014-12-23 19:33:08 <michagogo> In fact, you're better off pretending they don't exist
1387 2014-12-23 19:33:57 erasmospunk has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1388 2014-12-23 19:34:33 benrcole1 has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
1389 2014-12-23 19:34:39 <bsm117532> Aha, I'd seen "account" in the RPC calls and quietly assumed it really said "wallet".
1390 2014-12-23 19:35:09 Lightsword has joined
1391 2014-12-23 19:37:32 <wumpus> many people think that,but it's just internal accounting and means nothing at the blockchain level... that's one of the reasons it needs to go and eventually real multiwallet introduced. 
1392 2014-12-23 19:38:25 <bsm117532> Maybe I finally found something to work on... ;-)
1393 2014-12-23 19:38:48 <user7779078> what milestone do you guys plan to fully deprecate it? accounting, that is
1394 2014-12-23 19:39:25 <michagogo> user7779078: 0.11, iirc?
1395 2014-12-23 19:39:28 Aquent has joined
1396 2014-12-23 19:39:31 <wumpus> that's great, be sure to coordinate with jonasschnelli and sipa, they intend to work on the wallet too
1397 2014-12-23 19:39:47 <bsm117532> Thanks, will do
1398 2014-12-23 19:40:05 <user7779078> michagogo: awesome
1399 2014-12-23 19:40:11 <jonasschnelli> yes. pm when you have time to work on such things.
1400 2014-12-23 19:40:12 <michagogo> (don't quote me on that)
1401 2014-12-23 19:40:30 <wumpus> user7779078: deprecating could be done any time, removing should IMO only happen when the new wallet is ready to be merged
1402 2014-12-23 19:40:49 <wumpus> user7779078: the current API just doesn't make sense without accounts so it needs an API change too
1403 2014-12-23 19:40:58 <user7779078> yes, good point.
1404 2014-12-23 19:41:05 <wumpus> and if you're changing that, well, lots of other things can be changed too
1405 2014-12-23 19:41:17 <wumpus> like axing a few send* methods, there's too many
1406 2014-12-23 19:41:25 <user7779078> which PRs can i look into about the 'new wallet'?
1407 2014-12-23 19:41:30 <wumpus> user7779078: none
1408 2014-12-23 19:41:35 <user7779078> kk
1409 2014-12-23 19:41:38 <wumpus> it's completely a theoretical construct right now
1410 2014-12-23 19:41:44 <jonasschnelli> user7779078, no PR right now
1411 2014-12-23 19:41:44 <user7779078> any write ups on it?
1412 2014-12-23 19:41:46 <bsm117532> user7779078: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/3816
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1414 2014-12-23 19:41:55 <wumpus> user7779078: IRC backlog maybe
1415 2014-12-23 19:41:58 earlz has joined
1416 2014-12-23 19:42:02 <user7779078> cheers
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1422 2014-12-23 19:48:26 <wumpus> cfields: any luck with gitian? you can try the 0.10.0rc1 tag now :)
1423 2014-12-23 19:48:45 <cfields> wumpus: nice :)
1424 2014-12-23 19:49:02 <cfields> wumpus: i can build for real if you'd like. right now i'm poking at the network trying to figure out why it's not working
1425 2014-12-23 19:49:17 <wumpus> cfields: no hurry
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1441 2014-12-23 20:02:07 <btcdrak> jgarzik: how about adding PUT/POST for tx and block to the REST API? then could submit transactions also.
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1445 2014-12-23 20:10:23 <wumpus> interesting idea, although I've always imagined the REST API to be read-only
1446 2014-12-23 20:10:28 Application has joined
1447 2014-12-23 20:15:24 <wumpus> FYI, sha256sums of gitian output for 0.10.0rc1 https://gist.github.com/laanwj/737988993f2431ba65f2
1448 2014-12-23 20:16:10 <wumpus> will push to gitian.sigs later, but kind of forgot the gsigns
1449 2014-12-23 20:18:16 benrcole has joined
1450 2014-12-23 20:18:34 <cfields> gavinandresen: around by any chance?
1451 2014-12-23 20:19:04 <gavinandresen> cfields: yes, for 30 more minutes or so
1452 2014-12-23 20:19:10 <phantomcircuit> wumpus, hehe read only REST api :P
1453 2014-12-23 20:19:26 <cfields> gavinandresen: how do you want to handle signing for rc1?
1454 2014-12-23 20:19:27 <phantomcircuit> btcdrak, what would PUT for tx do?
1455 2014-12-23 20:19:36 <phantomcircuit> you cant update a tx, they're immutable
1456 2014-12-23 20:19:40 <wumpus> phantomcircuit: yes, as in just querying
1457 2014-12-23 20:19:48 <wumpus> phantomcircuit: it would submit a tx
1458 2014-12-23 20:20:17 <phantomcircuit> no POST would do that
1459 2014-12-23 20:20:31 <phantomcircuit> or...
1460 2014-12-23 20:20:35 <wumpus> oh well...
1461 2014-12-23 20:20:37 <phantomcircuit> yeah
1462 2014-12-23 20:20:41 <phantomcircuit> POST ~= CREATE
1463 2014-12-23 20:20:43 <phantomcircuit> PUT ~= UPDATE
1464 2014-12-23 20:20:50 <phantomcircuit> you cant update a tx
1465 2014-12-23 20:20:53 <wumpus> so, another reason for keeping it read only, it confuses people
1466 2014-12-23 20:21:19 <gavinandresen> cfields : For rc1, same way we did it in the past seems like best way (I codesign OSX and windows binaries, wumpus GPG-signs the results to create SHASUMS file)
1467 2014-12-23 20:21:45 <cfields> gavinandresen: sorry, i meant.. are you around to codesign today?
1468 2014-12-23 20:21:53 <gavinandresen> cfields: maybe for rc2 or final release we should try the fancy “I build first, then give everybody the OSX signature block thingie"
1469 2014-12-23 20:21:55 <wumpus> gavinandresen: yes, sounds good to me
1470 2014-12-23 20:22:31 <btcdrak> yeah phantomcircuit, not a PUT, a POST. just tired and my brain farted
1471 2014-12-23 20:22:38 Grouver has quit (Quit:  HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- Like it?  Visit #hydrairc on EFNet)
1472 2014-12-23 20:22:51 <gavinandresen> I’ll fire up gitian builders at home in a couple of hours, can code-sign binaries later tonight or tomorrow.
1473 2014-12-23 20:23:44 <cfields> gavinandresen: ok, great. i was in a panic thinking you were out of town right now
1474 2014-12-23 20:24:30 <sipa> gitian building!
1475 2014-12-23 20:24:39 <sipa> i feel like i'm 2 years younger again
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1479 2014-12-23 20:26:18 <cfields> gavinandresen: gitian will spit out the unsigned dmg, as well as the stuff necessary to create one the detached way. so we can do rc1 the old way, but also do a dry-run of the detached signing method
1480 2014-12-23 20:26:40 <gavinandresen> cfields: cool
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1500 2014-12-23 20:48:02 <wumpus> cfields: what's the difference between the two .tar.gzs produced by the macosx build? ie  bitcoin-0.10.0-osx64.tar.gz and bitcoin-0.10.0-osx-unsigned.tar.gz
1501 2014-12-23 20:48:23 <gmaxwell> wumpus: should the relnotes on fee related new commandline options mention the fee maximum?  (reading your new release notes now)
1502 2014-12-23 20:48:46 <sipa> gmaxwell: yeah i made a list of all new commandline options and RPCs, but didn't get to write notes for them
1503 2014-12-23 20:49:02 <sipa> let's hope we have an rc2 to fix this :)
1504 2014-12-23 20:49:12 <wumpus> you don't need a rc2 to fix the release notes
1505 2014-12-23 20:49:28 <sipa> rc1.1?
1506 2014-12-23 20:49:31 karc has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1507 2014-12-23 20:49:32 <wumpus> those are published in other places anyhow
1508 2014-12-23 20:49:32 <sipa> *puppyeyes*
1509 2014-12-23 20:49:41 <wumpus> although I'm sure thre will be a rc2
1510 2014-12-23 20:49:48 belcher_ has joined
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1512 2014-12-23 20:50:02 <wumpus> rc1.1 lol
1513 2014-12-23 20:50:19 <sipa> we need moar levels
1514 2014-12-23 20:50:21 <wumpus> rc1.1a build 231
1515 2014-12-23 20:50:26 <sipa> haha
1516 2014-12-23 20:50:28 <sipa> -beta
1517 2014-12-23 20:50:31 <wumpus> hah
1518 2014-12-23 20:50:40 <sipa> 0.10.0.0rc1.1a-beta
1519 2014-12-23 20:50:43 <sipa> sgtm
1520 2014-12-23 20:50:56 <wumpus> that must be the first version number that's not confusing at all
1521 2014-12-23 20:51:00 <gmaxwell> sha256 release naming.
1522 2014-12-23 20:51:03 <wumpus> totally defined
1523 2014-12-23 20:51:06 <sipa> gmaxwell: sha1
1524 2014-12-23 20:51:11 <sipa> gmaxwell: also known as git commits
1525 2014-12-23 20:51:29 <gmaxwell> sipa: because then if we need to do an update but keep the version we can?
1526 2014-12-23 20:51:32 <gmaxwell> :P
1527 2014-12-23 20:51:47 <wumpus> just flag it with a 128 bit timestamp of planck time units from the start of the universe
1528 2014-12-23 20:51:50 belcher has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
1529 2014-12-23 20:52:23 <sipa> wumpus: i think we need more accuracy
1530 2014-12-23 20:52:38 <wumpus> I'm afraid too
1531 2014-12-23 20:53:19 <sipa> actually, we need more than a 128-bit counter...
1532 2014-12-23 20:53:26 Techguy305 has joined
1533 2014-12-23 20:53:55 <wumpus> my second gitian build created the same output as the first, that's good at least
1534 2014-12-23 20:54:08 <wumpus> pushed to gitian.sigs now
1535 2014-12-23 20:54:12 <sipa> gitian running here for linux
1536 2014-12-23 20:54:31 <michagogo> erm
1537 2014-12-23 20:54:38 <michagogo> cfields: I think it's actually broken
1538 2014-12-23 20:54:44 <michagogo> Deps seem to be rebuilding :/
1539 2014-12-23 20:54:53 <sipa> but for some reason it's building dependencies again
1540 2014-12-23 20:55:05 <wumpus> don't have that problem here, strange
1541 2014-12-23 20:55:58 <wumpus> when was the last time you used gitian sipa?
1542 2014-12-23 20:56:11 <sipa> like a week ago, to see whether it would work
1543 2014-12-23 20:56:29 <wumpus> right, indeed should be no change since then that requires everything
1544 2014-12-23 20:56:33 <wumpus> +rebuilding
1545 2014-12-23 20:56:37 <michagogo> sipa: do an ls in gitian-builder please?
1546 2014-12-23 20:56:56 <sipa> michagogo: ok?
1547 2014-12-23 20:57:14 <michagogo> Wondering if we have the same problem
1548 2014-12-23 20:57:33 <michagogo> erm, sorry
1549 2014-12-23 20:57:35 <michagogo> I mean ls cache
1550 2014-12-23 20:57:46 <sipa> ah
1551 2014-12-23 20:57:49 <michagogo> Or even better: tree cache
1552 2014-12-23 20:57:51 <sipa> yes, it's working in cache/cache
1553 2014-12-23 20:57:56 <michagogo> I have this: http://paste.ubuntu.com/9605543/
1554 2014-12-23 20:58:08 <michagogo> Argh.
1555 2014-12-23 20:58:13 <michagogo> At least it's not just me...
1556 2014-12-23 20:58:27 pjorrit has joined
1557 2014-12-23 20:59:09 <cfields> argh indeed.
1558 2014-12-23 20:59:18 <cfields> putting the gitian net problem on hold, looking at that one now instead.
1559 2014-12-23 20:59:59 <sipa> wait
1560 2014-12-23 21:00:13 <sipa> so i have a cache/cache directory, and it's the only one with something in
1561 2014-12-23 21:00:21 <sipa> but maybe now it's working in cache directly?
1562 2014-12-23 21:00:26 <sipa> not sure what could have changed though
1563 2014-12-23 21:00:36 <wumpus> cache directories all the way down
1564 2014-12-23 21:01:07 <michagogo> sipa: I think gitian is reading from gitian-builder/cache
1565 2014-12-23 21:01:17 <michagogo> but saving cache to gitian-builder/cache/cache
1566 2014-12-23 21:01:18 Zarutian has joined
1567 2014-12-23 21:01:20 <sipa> ok
1568 2014-12-23 21:01:29 <sipa> that's consistent with what i'm seeing
1569 2014-12-23 21:01:51 MoALTz has joined
1570 2014-12-23 21:02:04 <michagogo> Just did this: rm cache/bitcoin-*-0.10;mv cache/cache/bitcoin-linux-0.10/ cache/;mv cache/cache/bitcoin-win-0.10/ cache/;mv cache/cache/bitcoin-osx-0.10/ cache/
1571 2014-12-23 21:02:25 <michagogo> Restarting linux gbuild, I think it'll work if that's what's happening
1572 2014-12-23 21:03:08 <michagogo> wumpus: you said it's working fine for you?
1573 2014-12-23 21:03:10 <michagogo> sipa: What OS/distro are you running gitian in?
1574 2014-12-23 21:03:10 <michagogo> I'm using Ubuntu 12.04
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1577 2014-12-23 21:03:51 <wumpus> michagogo: yes, working fine for me, I've build everything two times now, no deps rebuild happened either time
1578 2014-12-23 21:04:08 <wumpus> michagogo: ubuntu 14.04, gitian kvm
1579 2014-12-23 21:04:55 <sipa> michagogo: virtualbox, debian 7.7, lxc
1580 2014-12-23 21:05:27 <wumpus> it's lxc where all the breakage seems to happen
1581 2014-12-23 21:06:18 <Luke-Jr> wumpus: nope, sorry
1582 2014-12-23 21:06:44 <wumpus> Luke-Jr: no problem, already wrote something myself
1583 2014-12-23 21:07:40 <wumpus> although this looks more like gitian issue than a depends or descriptors issue
1584 2014-12-23 21:07:51 <michagogo> Hm, question is, would ubuntu 14.04 lxc have the same problem
1585 2014-12-23 21:07:58 <cfields> wumpus: ok here too, no rebuilding
1586 2014-12-23 21:08:05 <michagogo> and/or would debian 7.7/ubuntu 12.04 kvm
1587 2014-12-23 21:08:11 <cfields> i have a feeling it's as simple as a missing or extra / somewhere
1588 2014-12-23 21:08:24 <wumpus> michagogo: I don't know, I can't get lxc to work here, also some vague issue probably related to some local setting
1589 2014-12-23 21:08:32 <michagogo> Oh, wait, what gitian versions are you (sipa, wumpus, cfields) using?
1590 2014-12-23 21:08:40 belcher_ is now known as belcher
1591 2014-12-23 21:08:42 <wumpus> michagogo: HEAD
1592 2014-12-23 21:08:57 <cfields> eg: copy-to-host foo bar/ vs. copy-to-host foo bar
1593 2014-12-23 21:08:59 <cfields> yes, HEAD
1594 2014-12-23 21:09:00 <michagogo> I'm on c834f371bbbb31ed5b9ffa7b7da07230c5220c38
1595 2014-12-23 21:09:08 <cfields> same
1596 2014-12-23 21:09:13 <michagogo> Hm.
1597 2014-12-23 21:09:21 <michagogo> cfields: copy-from-host, I'd think
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1599 2014-12-23 21:09:46 <cfields> michagogo: right
1600 2014-12-23 21:09:46 Transisto has quit ()
1601 2014-12-23 21:09:50 <michagogo> It's copying cache/ to the host properly, if I'm not mistaken, but then copying out of the host is nesting
1602 2014-12-23 21:10:07 <cfields> kvm uses scp, i would assume that lxc uses something more built-in, maybe different semantics
1603 2014-12-23 21:10:20 <michagogo> Possible
1604 2014-12-23 21:10:53 <michagogo> copy-from-target*
1605 2014-12-23 21:10:55 <cfields> yea, it uses tar
1606 2014-12-23 21:10:57 <sipa> wumpus: the src tgz mismatches; the linux builds match...
1607 2014-12-23 21:11:08 <michagogo> https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/1Df6D1fJ
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1609 2014-12-23 21:11:25 <sipa> the hell?
1610 2014-12-23 21:12:08 <michagogo> make: Leaving directory `/home/ubuntu/build/bitcoin/depends'
1611 2014-12-23 21:12:36 <michagogo> Okay, so as expected, moving the files back out from cache/cache to cache fixed it
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1613 2014-12-23 21:12:47 <wumpus> sipa: I remember we've had problems with the source tgz before
1614 2014-12-23 21:13:14 <wumpus> sipa: the strange thing is that it's self-consistent, ie every time I build I get the same
1615 2014-12-23 21:13:34 <sipa> maybe it depends on the -j flag when building, as that influences build order
1616 2014-12-23 21:13:47 <sipa> and maybe the order in which tar finds the files on disk or something
1617 2014-12-23 21:14:01 <wumpus> yes, may be the tar is not properly sorted, though we used to account for that
1618 2014-12-23 21:14:02 <cfields> sipa: they're sorted first to avoid that
1619 2014-12-23 21:14:06 <sipa> ok good
1620 2014-12-23 21:14:13 <sipa> i'll upload my tar
1621 2014-12-23 21:14:19 <wumpus> cfields: do we need to upload them?
1622 2014-12-23 21:14:25 <cfields> we'll see if mine matches wumpus'. building now.
1623 2014-12-23 21:14:37 <cfields> wumpus: i have a feeling that you and i will line up
1624 2014-12-23 21:15:23 <wumpus> cfields: probably, as our setup was seemingly the only working one ;)
1625 2014-12-23 21:15:33 <cfields> heh
1626 2014-12-23 21:15:46 <michagogo> checking if ccache should be used... yes
1627 2014-12-23 21:15:57 <michagogo> Does the gitian cache include a ccache? Nice!
1628 2014-12-23 21:16:08 <michagogo> Should save lots of time on later rcs
1629 2014-12-23 21:16:12 <wumpus> depends includes a ccache
1630 2014-12-23 21:16:41 <wumpus> but yes, it's nice, almost everything is cached
1631 2014-12-23 21:17:40 <sipa> wumpus: bitcoin.sipa.be/bitcoin-0.10.0rc1.tgz
1632 2014-12-23 21:17:43 <michagogo> oh
1633 2014-12-23 21:18:04 <michagogo> Damn, I was hoping we ccached the bitcoin build :P
1634 2014-12-23 21:18:12 <wumpus> it does
1635 2014-12-23 21:18:16 <michagogo> Oh
1636 2014-12-23 21:18:21 <michagogo> Oh, I see -- I misunderstood
1637 2014-12-23 21:18:24 <michagogo> Awesome.
1638 2014-12-23 21:20:25 <cfields> gitian explicitly disables ccache
1639 2014-12-23 21:20:47 <cfields> just for the sake of safety for release builds
1640 2014-12-23 21:21:37 <michagogo> Okay, nvm them
1641 2014-12-23 21:21:38 <michagogo> then*
1642 2014-12-23 21:23:09 <cfields> we could enable, i just figured it wasn't worth it for our rare release schedule
1643 2014-12-23 21:23:27 <sipa> let's unrare it
1644 2014-12-23 21:23:31 <wumpus> my files can be found here https://download.visucore.com/bitcoin/0.10.0/test/
1645 2014-12-23 21:24:15 <wumpus> cfields: makes sense, it's safer to just build, otherwise it's almost impossible to check if things are really deterministic
1646 2014-12-23 21:25:20 <cfields> wumpus: thanks. still building here
1647 2014-12-23 21:25:40 <sipa> building win here now
1648 2014-12-23 21:26:03 <cfields> cc43be325b0dbd2f0d5ca407d732c38313475c2bedde8990c382db4e2215a5d7  bitcoin-0.10.0.tar.gz
1649 2014-12-23 21:27:22 <wumpus> cfields: mine is cc43be325b0dbd2f0d5ca407d732c38313475c2bedde8990c382db4e2215a5d7  bitcoin-0.10.0.tar.gz too
1650 2014-12-23 21:27:53 lclc is now known as lclc_bnc
1651 2014-12-23 21:27:59 <cfields> ok good, so maybe it's just lxc that's the issue (again/still)
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1654 2014-12-23 21:32:28 <cfields> wumpus: as for your earlier question about osx, 1 tarball is for use in the split signature process, the other is the binaries in the same dir structure as linux
1655 2014-12-23 21:32:51 <cfields> since there were complaints of no official bitcoind/bitcoin-cli builds
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1657 2014-12-23 21:33:27 <wumpus> cfields: ah yes, so the one without -unsigned is the useful one, ok :)
1658 2014-12-23 21:33:55 <cfields> yea, the -unsigned is a dmg dir structure that's not actually dmg'ified yet
1659 2014-12-23 21:34:27 <cfields> wumpus: matches on linux
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1663 2014-12-23 21:40:34 brianhoffman has joined
1664 2014-12-23 21:40:38 <Luke-Jr> wumpus: the release notes don't explain why a completely sync'd node (ie, no header-but-no-data blocks) won't just work (ie, without reindexing) in prior versions.
1665 2014-12-23 21:41:07 <wumpus> Luke-Jr: it does, see downgrading warning
1666 2014-12-23 21:41:12 <gmaxwell> sipa: seems the 0.10 release notes have no mention of headers first except in the commit soup. IMO headers first is the big headline change for the release. Want to try your hand release notes for it?
1667 2014-12-23 21:41:28 <Luke-Jr> wumpus: that's what I'm reading. it doesn't give a *reason* for the incompatibility
1668 2014-12-23 21:41:38 <wumpus> Luke-Jr: feel free to add it
1669 2014-12-23 21:41:50 <Luke-Jr> also, did we get rid of the .sst/.ldb difference we had from upstream LevelDB at the same time?
1670 2014-12-23 21:41:58 <Luke-Jr> wumpus: well, I don't remember why ;)
1671 2014-12-23 21:42:06 <wumpus> Luke-Jr: as I remember there were actually two things mentioned
1672 2014-12-23 21:42:31 <Luke-Jr> wumpus: yes, both of which I mentioned just now..
1673 2014-12-23 21:42:38 <Luke-Jr> neither of which explain why it wouldn't work
1674 2014-12-23 21:43:12 <wumpus> Luke-Jr: it's just a warning, feel free to not heed it and find out why....
1675 2014-12-23 21:43:56 vmatekole has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
1676 2014-12-23 21:45:37 <Luke-Jr> "not heeding it" won't tell you why :p
1677 2014-12-23 21:46:01 <Luke-Jr> sipa: can you remind why?
1678 2014-12-23 21:46:22 <sipa> Luke-Jr: sorry, missing some context?
1679 2014-12-23 21:46:41 <Luke-Jr> sipa: why will a completely sync'd node (ie, no header-but-no-data blocks) not just work (ie, without reindexing) in prior versions?
1680 2014-12-23 21:46:57 <sipa> Luke-Jr: it will, i think
1681 2014-12-23 21:47:03 <Luke-Jr> oh, ok
1682 2014-12-23 21:47:52 <wumpus> but as soon as it has to catch up it can download blocks out-of-order or introduce block index entries that older versions don't understand
1683 2014-12-23 21:47:59 <wumpus> that's what the warning is about, simple as that
1684 2014-12-23 21:48:48 <Luke-Jr> wumpus: but once it's caught up, that is irrelevant
1685 2014-12-23 21:48:59 <Luke-Jr> prior versions don't care about the on-disk block order
1686 2014-12-23 21:49:05 <Luke-Jr> provided they are already indexed
1687 2014-12-23 21:49:08 <sipa> indeed
1688 2014-12-23 21:49:10 <wumpus> sigh, if you think the warning is unnecessary then remove it, I'm tired of this
1689 2014-12-23 21:49:23 <sipa> keep the warning, please
1690 2014-12-23 21:49:23 <Luke-Jr> wumpus: it's necessary, just could use clarification- I'll fork it
1691 2014-12-23 21:49:51 <sipa> we don't guarantee backwards compatibility there, and i'd rather not spend too much time thinking about how incompatibilities could have been introduced
1692 2014-12-23 21:50:04 <wumpus> I'm sure there is some  edge case where it will work, but in the general case it *CAN* cause problems, hence a warning
1693 2014-12-23 21:50:06 <sipa> if clarifying clarifies things, sure
1694 2014-12-23 21:50:17 <wumpus> people are free to ignore it, if they think it works in their special case
1695 2014-12-23 21:50:32 <wumpus> that's not the point of it
1696 2014-12-23 21:51:11 <Luke-Jr> https://gist.github.com/luke-jr/369fd946d82ecbba4164#downgrading-warning
1697 2014-12-23 21:51:13 <Luke-Jr> how's this?
1698 2014-12-23 21:51:19 <wumpus> it's basically just a disclaimer
1699 2014-12-23 21:51:32 cbeams has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1700 2014-12-23 21:52:03 cbeams has joined
1701 2014-12-23 21:54:48 ruukasu has quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.0.1)
1702 2014-12-23 21:55:03 <Luke-Jr> sipa: should libsecp256k1 be capitalised at the beginning of a sentence?
1703 2014-12-23 21:55:26 <sipa> i'll let people with degrees in linguistics decide that
1704 2014-12-23 21:56:00 <Luke-Jr> well, it's whether libsecp256k1 has a hard or soft lowercase first letter :p
1705 2014-12-23 21:56:04 ruukasu has joined
1706 2014-12-23 21:56:06 <wumpus> maybe #bitcoin-language
1707 2014-12-23 21:56:11 * Luke-Jr shrugs
1708 2014-12-23 21:56:29 <sipa> ok then
1709 2014-12-23 21:56:31 cbeams has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1710 2014-12-23 21:57:23 <gmaxwell> At one point it appeared to "work" so long as you didn't reindex. No idea if it really works, I didn't spend time tesitng that.
1711 2014-12-23 21:58:07 <Luke-Jr> did some further corrections to https://gist.github.com/luke-jr/369fd946d82ecbba4164
1712 2014-12-23 21:58:11 <wumpus> you can try it, just don't complain when it doesn't work
1713 2014-12-23 22:00:26 * Luke-Jr wonders why estimatefee is in rpcmining O.o
1714 2014-12-23 22:01:54 <sipa> wumpus: for the windows build the same: everything matches except the source
1715 2014-12-23 22:02:07 <wumpus> sipa: but does it match your other source?
1716 2014-12-23 22:02:39 <sipa> yes
1717 2014-12-23 22:03:15 <wumpus> so you have a deterministic output, just a different one, curious
1718 2014-12-23 22:03:30 <wumpus> last time I saw something like this it had to do with file permissions
1719 2014-12-23 22:03:44 b_lumenkraft_ has quit (Quit: b_lumenkraft_)
1720 2014-12-23 22:04:05 <Luke-Jr> wumpus: how should I do a PR for the release notes?
1721 2014-12-23 22:04:38 <wumpus> Luke-Jr: just flie a pull against 0.10
1722 2014-12-23 22:04:45 <Luke-Jr> k
1723 2014-12-23 22:07:15 aschildbach has joined
1724 2014-12-23 22:07:16 <wumpus> cfields: any success in comparing them?
1725 2014-12-23 22:07:47 ralphtheninja has left ()
1726 2014-12-23 22:08:53 <cfields> wumpus: linux and osx match 100%. building win now
1727 2014-12-23 22:08:57 <gmaxwell> __sigh__ translated string changes.
1728 2014-12-23 22:09:08 <gmaxwell> Is someone making sure these things get fixed in translations?
1729 2014-12-23 22:09:09 <sipa> gmaxwell: hmm?
1730 2014-12-23 22:09:27 <wumpus> now what
1731 2014-12-23 22:09:36 <wumpus> cfields: I mean sipa's tar 
1732 2014-12-23 22:09:41 hashtag_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1733 2014-12-23 22:09:49 ruukasu has quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.0.1)
1734 2014-12-23 22:10:03 ruukasu has joined
1735 2014-12-23 22:10:13 <cfields> wumpus: oh no, not yet. have been poking at lxc while these are building
1736 2014-12-23 22:10:27 <gmaxwell> sipa: Was commenting on luke's PR changing the commandline stuff.  (I'm guilty myself of changing translated strings right before 0.10 rc)
1737 2014-12-23 22:10:49 <wumpus> gmaxwell: well the only result of that is that the message will appear in english, no worries
1738 2014-12-23 22:11:32 <wumpus> the translator only gets exact matches, is not 'intelligient' in that it maps a different message to it
1739 2014-12-23 22:11:33 <cfields> sipa: bad link?
1740 2014-12-23 22:11:49 <wumpus> cfields: I also couldn't download it, but assumed I was too late
1741 2014-12-23 22:11:51 <cfields> sipa: nm, it's .tar.gz
1742 2014-12-23 22:12:01 <sipa> oh
1743 2014-12-23 22:12:13 <sipa> i should be lazier (copy-paste more)
1744 2014-12-23 22:14:01 waxwing has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1745 2014-12-23 22:14:04 <Luke-Jr> were we going to deprecate accounts finally?
1746 2014-12-23 22:14:12 <wumpus> maybe we shouldn't be translating the command-line help messages in  the first place
1747 2014-12-23 22:14:21 <wumpus> it's only used for the GUI executable anyhow
1748 2014-12-23 22:14:29 <wumpus> Luke-Jr: sure, deprecate it, add warnings everywhere
1749 2014-12-23 22:14:47 <Luke-Jr> wumpus: in 0.10 or master?
1750 2014-12-23 22:14:53 <wumpus> Luke-Jr: master obviously
1751 2014-12-23 22:15:08 <wumpus> I"m not accepting any changes to 0.10 except bugfixes and release notes
1752 2014-12-23 22:15:28 ryanxcharles has joined
1753 2014-12-23 22:16:06 <Luke-Jr> does the .pc count as a bugfix? or are we intentionally waiting until 0.11 for that?
1754 2014-12-23 22:16:38 <wumpus> no, it does not count as a bugfix
1755 2014-12-23 22:16:46 <cfields> wumpus: yep, it's permissions
1756 2014-12-23 22:16:59 <wumpus> cfields: you're not passing the normalization arguments/
1757 2014-12-23 22:17:20 <cfields> http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=mq7aDUdk
1758 2014-12-23 22:17:30 <cfields> wumpus: i thought those weren't necessary after the umask fix?
1759 2014-12-23 22:17:40 <wumpus> we used to pass arguments to tar to normalize all that stuff :-/
1760 2014-12-23 22:18:15 <wumpus> let's just re-add them, not depends on some vague fixed in gitian
1761 2014-12-23 22:18:28 <wumpus> if we want to build outside of gitian we'll have to do that anyhow
1762 2014-12-23 22:18:34 freepoutine is now known as poutine
1763 2014-12-23 22:18:37 <cfields> ok
1764 2014-12-23 22:19:08 <sipa> does that still go in rc1?
1765 2014-12-23 22:19:23 MagicFab_ has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
1766 2014-12-23 22:19:41 <wumpus> no, that's no longer possible
1767 2014-12-23 22:19:44 <wumpus> that would be rc2
1768 2014-12-23 22:20:01 <sipa> ok
1769 2014-12-23 22:20:17 <sipa> do i submit my not-entirely-matching gitian sigs?
1770 2014-12-23 22:20:35 <wumpus> sure
1771 2014-12-23 22:20:39 <Luke-Jr> wumpus: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/5534
1772 2014-12-23 22:20:43 <wumpus> I want to push on with rc1 for now, no matter that tar
1773 2014-12-23 22:20:56 hmsimha has joined
1774 2014-12-23 22:21:13 <wumpus> I'm sure other issues will come up and we'll need a rc2 to fix that
1775 2014-12-23 22:22:32 <wumpus> so let's see how far we get with rc1. It wouldn't be the first time the resulting executable doesn't work, for example :)
1776 2014-12-23 22:25:41 jprichardson has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1777 2014-12-23 22:27:28 waxwing has joined
1778 2014-12-23 22:28:04 arubi has joined
1779 2014-12-23 22:29:02 <michagogo> - out_manifest: ! '90c5eb90ed3dc710c56edb92a93c9d6f5fb8b8243db48edbca316a4cece0d6ad  bitcoin-0.10.0-linux32.tar.gz
1780 2014-12-23 22:29:02 <michagogo>     4b5a2c43ae9e40131e7d654f22ba99c53b1affb1da61af6c905317dab9ed80f3  bitcoin-0.10.0-linux64.tar.gz
1781 2014-12-23 22:29:02 <michagogo>     ac9ee4a32602ccfe56980cee04bd9bc21ed79044b866f0509a2b27bfb241e1cb  src/bitcoin-0.10.0.tar.gz
1782 2014-12-23 22:29:10 AnoAnon has joined
1783 2014-12-23 22:29:53 AnoAnon has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1784 2014-12-23 22:30:25 ThomasV has joined
1785 2014-12-23 22:31:35 <wumpus> executables match, and your source tarball matches sipa's
1786 2014-12-23 22:32:12 <michagogo> Hm
1787 2014-12-23 22:32:25 <michagogo> Yet it mismatches you two...
1788 2014-12-23 22:32:29 <cfields> as expected, since you have the same perms
1789 2014-12-23 22:32:31 <michagogo> I think this happened in the past
1790 2014-12-23 22:32:37 <helo> git head full sync from network with spinning disk in 5.3h... that is incredible
1791 2014-12-23 22:32:43 <michagogo> another kvm/lxc difference :/
1792 2014-12-23 22:32:56 <sipa> helo: sounds long :)
1793 2014-12-23 22:33:10 <cfields> michagogo: yea, i've got it changed locally, just need to test
1794 2014-12-23 22:33:24 <gmaxwell> wumpus: if you send out a message on the 0.10rc1 availablity, perhaps you should mention how to check out the tag from git (we get lots of people who checkout master and think they have $somethingelse)
1795 2014-12-23 22:33:27 <wumpus> yes, just a matter of adding some arguments for tar, we had this fixed at some point
1796 2014-12-23 22:33:28 <cfields> sipa: what's the fastest you've seen?
1797 2014-12-23 22:33:56 <sipa> cfields: recently? 3 hours or so
1798 2014-12-23 22:34:16 <sipa> though time-since-last-checkpoint matters painfully much
1799 2014-12-23 22:34:26 <cfields> sipa: jeez, that is pretty incredible
1800 2014-12-23 22:34:31 <wumpus> well if you have a really fast machine
1801 2014-12-23 22:35:08 <wumpus> cfields: I'm happy it doesn't happen for the other .tar.gzs
1802 2014-12-23 22:35:26 <gmaxwell> My record is more like 2.5 hours.
1803 2014-12-23 22:36:42 <wumpus> gmaxwell: ok
1804 2014-12-23 22:36:45 <cfields> wumpus: yea. the source tarball is the one we unpack/repack. my guess is that's what sets it apart
1805 2014-12-23 22:37:28 Lightsword has quit (Quit: Lightsword)
1806 2014-12-23 22:37:35 <Luke-Jr> wumpus: is the string change in #5534 acceptable, or should I back that out?
1807 2014-12-23 22:37:42 <michagogo> win64 done
1808 2014-12-23 22:37:43 <wumpus> Luke-Jr: it's fine with me
1809 2014-12-23 22:37:49 <Luke-Jr> k
1810 2014-12-23 22:38:08 <Luke-Jr> wasn't sure where the translation process was
1811 2014-12-23 22:38:56 <wumpus> Luke-Jr: we can live with an untranslated command line help message, as said above I'm not even sure we should be translating those in the first place
1812 2014-12-23 22:39:34 <wumpus> Luke-Jr: translators have a lot of difficulty with the jargon, and only --help on the GUI executable will show the translated help anyhow
1813 2014-12-23 22:40:07 <wumpus> cfields: right, makes sense
1814 2014-12-23 22:40:40 <cfields> michagogo: what's your sha256 for bitcoin-0.10.0-win64.zip ?
1815 2014-12-23 22:41:04 <michagogo> cfields: don't have it yet
1816 2014-12-23 22:41:12 <michagogo> win32 still going
1817 2014-12-23 22:41:24 <cfields> ok
1818 2014-12-23 22:41:48 * sipa looks forward to not needing 2 VMs to build bitcoin releases
1819 2014-12-23 22:41:59 <wumpus> 2 VMs?
1820 2014-12-23 22:42:01 <michagogo> sipa: uh, that's the case now already
1821 2014-12-23 22:42:16 <sipa> yeah, 1 suffices, i know
1822 2014-12-23 22:42:19 <Luke-Jr> cfields: is there a simple way to put depends/ intermediate files on another partition?
1823 2014-12-23 22:42:20 <michagogo> The new depends system does everything in precise amd64, if I'm not mistaken
1824 2014-12-23 22:42:30 <sipa> michagogo: i mean VirtualBox + LXC
1825 2014-12-23 22:42:33 <cfields> Luke-Jr: see README.usage
1826 2014-12-23 22:42:37 <michagogo> sipa: ah
1827 2014-12-23 22:42:40 <cfields> Luke-Jr: you can move most of it around with env vars
1828 2014-12-23 22:42:44 <Luke-Jr> hm
1829 2014-12-23 22:42:45 <sipa> and i mean i look forward to not needing gitian, but just depends
1830 2014-12-23 22:42:52 <michagogo> Well, you don't need to do that if your machine is Ubuntu
1831 2014-12-23 22:42:57 <michagogo> Or maybe even Debian
1832 2014-12-23 22:42:58 <sipa> it is
1833 2014-12-23 22:43:01 <sipa> and i know
1834 2014-12-23 22:43:09 * sipa is just annoyed by gitian
1835 2014-12-23 22:43:15 <michagogo> Uh, so why vbox and not just gitian+kvm?
1836 2014-12-23 22:43:24 <sipa> i followed the guide
1837 2014-12-23 22:43:55 <michagogo> The Guide isn't necessarily the best way of doing it -- it's just one way, that works cross-platform
1838 2014-12-23 22:44:02 <sipa> i am well aware
1839 2014-12-23 22:44:10 <michagogo> If you're already on Ubuntu, you can just follow gitian's readme
1840 2014-12-23 22:44:11 <michagogo> okay
1841 2014-12-23 22:44:12 <sipa> i've used gitian for a really long time :)
1842 2014-12-23 22:44:25 <sipa> but i didn't want to spend much time on it, as it annoys me greatly
1843 2014-12-23 22:44:35 * michagogo tries to understand the "not needing 2 VMs" statement
1844 2014-12-23 22:45:24 <wumpus> can we stop complaining about gitian now, without it we would never had deterministic releases in the first place
1845 2014-12-23 22:46:35 jps has joined
1846 2014-12-23 22:46:44 <michagogo> Okay, nsis running for win32 now
1847 2014-12-23 22:46:53 jps has quit (Client Quit)
1848 2014-12-23 22:47:35 <michagogo> 504b6cb989b2f6967e3aa9ef1fd9ec15aaa28b060351f064323f3972cc199320  bitcoin-0.10.0-win32-setup.exe
1849 2014-12-23 22:47:35 <michagogo> 24a94035641cbb84d9f8d04e290e1aa008346fc8b867029717475e2991d510a6  bitcoin-0.10.0-win32.zip
1850 2014-12-23 22:47:35 <michagogo> 835559d963cb7d1e6fb594f15e19b4c46b811deb6b78afa25621f62af8be73ae  bitcoin-0.10.0-win64-setup.exe
1851 2014-12-23 22:47:35 <michagogo> d89d976778c8c1fd752e1171a4221bdfa26c626b342a9d5c21570c66903ea76f  bitcoin-0.10.0-win64.zip
1852 2014-12-23 22:47:35 <michagogo> ac9ee4a32602ccfe56980cee04bd9bc21ed79044b866f0509a2b27bfb241e1cb  src/bitcoin-0.10.0.tar.gz
1853 2014-12-23 22:47:54 <cfields> cool, your zips line up
1854 2014-12-23 22:49:18 cyphase has joined
1855 2014-12-23 22:50:44 <wumpus> yes
1856 2014-12-23 22:50:50 <sipa> michagogo: i mean i hope that some day we won't need gitian at all
1857 2014-12-23 22:50:58 <michagogo> sipa: got it.
1858 2014-12-23 22:51:41 <sipa> wumpus: and absolutely; this is not a complaint about gitian itself really - getting sufficient-consistent build environments and virtual machines to work across platforms is just hard, and i'm glad we do
1859 2014-12-23 22:52:58 <michagogo> Are any of the packages that the gitian osx descriptor installs only necessary for the depends?
1860 2014-12-23 22:53:40 <michagogo> (I remember, before depends, the os x build itself used a very small number of packages)
1861 2014-12-23 22:54:23 <cfields> what do you mean?
1862 2014-12-23 22:54:44 <michagogo> cfields: looking at the ubuntu packages being installed for the OS X build
1863 2014-12-23 22:54:52 <wumpus> sipa: indeed it is hard to do, and using a vm was the easiest short-term solution, I agree it would be nice to not need it, but it was already infinitely better than nothing
1864 2014-12-23 22:55:09 <cfields> michagogo: they're used for building the native depends
1865 2014-12-23 22:55:14 <michagogo> There are a lot more packages than https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/v0.9.3/contrib/gitian-descriptors/gitian-osx-bitcoin.yml
1866 2014-12-23 22:55:17 <michagogo> cfields: that's what I thought
1867 2014-12-23 22:55:39 <michagogo> Kinda annoying that now we need to wait for them all to be installed even if all the depends are built
1868 2014-12-23 22:56:05 <sipa> michagogo: you can preinstall them
1869 2014-12-23 22:57:02 <cfields> michagogo: see https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/v0.9.3/contrib/gitian-descriptors/gitian-osx-native.yml . those were all there before too, they were just split up
1870 2014-12-23 22:57:02 <michagogo> cfields: right, I know
1871 2014-12-23 22:57:11 DigiByteDev has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
1872 2014-12-23 22:57:11 <michagogo> Just a slightly unfortunate side effect of moving it all into one descriptor with the depends system
1873 2014-12-23 22:57:11 <cfields> michagogo: yea, i cheated. those should really be built by depends instead, but since there's almost no risk of a non-deterministic output from those, i didn't bother
1874 2014-12-23 22:57:11 <sipa> wumpus: did we pull in translations, or does that happen after rcs?
1875 2014-12-23 22:58:34 <wumpus> sipa: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/commit/3a88ba07944f25349701f13371ca6e5f188a8fa4
1876 2014-12-23 22:59:33 felipelalli has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1877 2014-12-23 22:59:38 Aquent has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1878 2014-12-23 23:00:58 devrandom has quit (Quit: leaving)
1879 2014-12-23 23:03:23 <cfields> sipa: it'd actually be interesting to see if we got a binary match from just building in a precise x86_64 vm
1880 2014-12-23 23:03:36 <cfields> it should actually come pretty close i'd think
1881 2014-12-23 23:03:57 atgreen has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1882 2014-12-23 23:04:21 <gmaxwell> How did we end up with multiple build host vms in any case? they shouldn't be needed, since we can just cross build in one.
1883 2014-12-23 23:04:31 <wumpus> cfields: it should be exactly the same, gitian uses a precise x86_64 vm
1884 2014-12-23 23:04:39 <cfields> gmaxwell: there's only 1 now
1885 2014-12-23 23:05:15 <wumpus> gmaxwell: the idea/goal of gitian was to set up the vm in which bitcoin is built automatically from some host os, it was never the goal to have a vm in a vm
1886 2014-12-23 23:05:41 <wumpus> gmaxwell: that's how it ended up because effectively gitian only works on ubuntu (and maybe debian) as host
1887 2014-12-23 23:05:50 fanquake has joined
1888 2014-12-23 23:06:10 <cfields> wumpus: all matches on all platforms. pushing up sigs now
1889 2014-12-23 23:06:19 <wumpus> gmaxwell: so people with, say, osx, can't run gitian directly, but have to run gitian itself in a VM... which in turn, spins up a nested container
1890 2014-12-23 23:06:25 <wumpus> cfields: cool
1891 2014-12-23 23:06:42 <wumpus> gmaxwell: but that of course wasn't the original goal, but just a result of how things work
1892 2014-12-23 23:06:53 <sipa> wumpus: i think he means why are the osx/win/lin builds in separate VM images
1893 2014-12-23 23:07:02 <sipa> well, VM instances, whatever
1894 2014-12-23 23:07:18 <wumpus> gmaxwell: in principle you can set up a ubuntu VM yourself and build in that and follow the steps yourself, instead of use gitian
1895 2014-12-23 23:07:24 ThomasV has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1896 2014-12-23 23:07:30 <wumpus> sipa: huh? they aren't
1897 2014-12-23 23:07:42 <cfields> sipa: you mean descriptors?
1898 2014-12-23 23:07:56 <sipa> i don't know; i'm trying to gmaxwellterpret
1899 2014-12-23 23:08:02 <wumpus> cfields: so, why don't we set up a ubuntu VM manually and run the descriptors manually :-)
1900 2014-12-23 23:08:05 <cfields> haha
1901 2014-12-23 23:08:24 <cfields> wumpus: for those doing levels of vm's, i'd suggest exactly that :)
1902 2014-12-23 23:08:38 <cfields> seems funny to recommend a debian vm, just so that it can build a precise vm
1903 2014-12-23 23:08:47 <cfields> just use precise to begin with :)
1904 2014-12-23 23:08:53 <michagogo> 01:06:41 <wumpus> gmaxwell: so people with, say, osx, can't run gitian directly
1905 2014-12-23 23:09:00 <michagogo> I thought Gavin was doing that?
1906 2014-12-23 23:09:04 <wumpus> cfields: but why does gitian create a new clean VM image every time?
1907 2014-12-23 23:09:25 <wumpus> cfields: it could also just clean out the home dir :<
1908 2014-12-23 23:09:26 <cfields> wumpus: now that depends are self-contained, it doesn't need to
1909 2014-12-23 23:09:45 <wumpus> cfields: oh wait, yes that's what gavin was doing
1910 2014-12-23 23:10:05 <cfields> wumpus: yea, and that broke things before because builds got cross-contaminated. it'd be safe now, though
1911 2014-12-23 23:10:30 <michagogo> e4b60408c8917c3a1420529b6b4d9eff6fe080e4c7db86240effd0903f341dda  bitcoin-0.10.0-osx-unsigned.dmg
1912 2014-12-23 23:10:30 <michagogo> ea4084948adba09a2ed7d7e4412a0250ed8feebc8b55076dc7077625dba1b2ac  bitcoin-0.10.0-osx-unsigned.tar.gz
1913 2014-12-23 23:10:30 <michagogo> e9ccabda307d06a409609ef01a4585851005e0b232a79da7901a5903dfe11438  bitcoin-0.10.0-osx64.tar.gz
1914 2014-12-23 23:10:30 <michagogo> ac9ee4a32602ccfe56980cee04bd9bc21ed79044b866f0509a2b27bfb241e1cb  src/bitcoin-0.10.0.tar.gz
1915 2014-12-23 23:10:31 <wumpus> cfields: well it broke things because he didn't clean up his VM properly, but if he did it would work just as well as reinstalling the thing every time
1916 2014-12-23 23:11:55 <wumpus> cfields: at least - the builder runs as a user and doesn't affect anything outside its home directory
1917 2014-12-23 23:12:03 <cfields> wumpus: problem is that different builds required different depends, which we got from apt-get. For example, say that the osx build needed libgmp to build one of its native deps. The linux build might pick that up and use it as an optional dep for libsecp256k1 (though that was fixed today, i realize)
1918 2014-12-23 23:12:08 <sipa> can anyone interpret this: https://travis-ci.org/bitcoin/bitcoin/jobs/44987781 ?
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1920 2014-12-23 23:12:30 <cfields> but now, we don't apt-get deps. each dep installs only the deps it needs in its prefix, so it can't get contaminated
1921 2014-12-23 23:12:33 <wumpus> cfields: ah yes, that caused some issues in protobuf and such
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1923 2014-12-23 23:12:57 <Luke-Jr> cfields: is it okay/expected-to-work to build with ancient gitian? I'd like to do that at least once
1924 2014-12-23 23:12:59 <wumpus> cfields: but now we could just say "install ubuntu 12.04, download this and run this script to build" bypassing gitian entirely
1925 2014-12-23 23:13:33 <cfields> wumpus: yea. we'd have to rip the scripts out and run them, but i think that would work with minimal tweaking
1926 2014-12-23 23:14:07 <cfields> Luke-Jr: i believe it should. i intended for all the cache features to be optional
1927 2014-12-23 23:14:21 <michagogo> Hm, I don't know what bitcoin-0.10.0-osx64.tar.gz is, but it's missing from release-process.md
1928 2014-12-23 23:14:26 <wumpus> cfields: it's not as drastic nor flexible as building a toolchain from scratch and building in that, but as intermediate step it'dat least be straightforward and avoids the nested VM mess
1929 2014-12-23 23:15:13 <michagogo> Luke-Jr: only thing is, without the cache it'll take a very long time on every build, if I'm not mistaken
1930 2014-12-23 23:15:16 <wumpus> michagogo: bitcoind command line utilities for mac
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1932 2014-12-23 23:15:38 <michagogo> because it'll rebuild all the deps every time
1933 2014-12-23 23:15:39 <wumpus> michagogo: that's indeed new
1934 2014-12-23 23:15:59 <Luke-Jr> michagogo: yes, I just want to do it once ☺
1935 2014-12-23 23:17:11 agricocb has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
1936 2014-12-23 23:19:40 <michagogo> hm
1937 2014-12-23 23:19:46 <michagogo> where's my makegitianpr script go
1938 2014-12-23 23:19:49 <michagogo> where'd*
1939 2014-12-23 23:19:59 <firelegend> What minimum implementation of the bitcoin protocol do I need to build a small mini-node that can receive broadcasted transactions?
1940 2014-12-23 23:20:24 <Luke-Jr> firelegend: #bitcoin
1941 2014-12-23 23:20:43 <firelegend> but this is the dev channel
1942 2014-12-23 23:21:09 <Luke-Jr> oh, you mean writing your own node?
1943 2014-12-23 23:21:22 <firelegend> mini-node, for a personal non-commercial use
1944 2014-12-23 23:21:34 <firelegend> simply receiving the broadcasted transactions
1945 2014-12-23 23:21:37 <michagogo> https://github.com/bitcoin/gitian.sigs/pull/65
1946 2014-12-23 23:21:43 <Luke-Jr> eh, is it possible to use bitcoin non-commercially? ;p
1947 2014-12-23 23:22:01 <Luke-Jr> firelegend: BitcoinJ or libbitcoin may do what you need, but I've never used either
1948 2014-12-23 23:22:04 hashtag_ has joined
1949 2014-12-23 23:23:10 <firelegend> Thanks I will check them out.
1950 2014-12-23 23:23:45 <Luke-Jr> jonasschnelli: did you say you had a way to extract the Apple SDK stuff on non-Mac?
1951 2014-12-23 23:24:15 <cfields> ooh, that'd be great
1952 2014-12-23 23:26:12 neozaru has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1953 2014-12-23 23:26:29 <Luke-Jr> yes, it was him.. said he'd provide a script
1954 2014-12-23 23:26:35 * Luke-Jr searches his log more to see if he posted it
1955 2014-12-23 23:27:20 <Luke-Jr> don't see it :/
1956 2014-12-23 23:27:28 user7779078 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1957 2014-12-23 23:30:43 HaltingState has joined
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1959 2014-12-23 23:34:16 <sipa> firelegend: as for minimal version of the protocol: 209 (but this isn't very useful information)
1960 2014-12-23 23:35:24 <wumpus> cfields: we could of course cheat even more and add a 'local' target to gitian :-)
1961 2014-12-23 23:36:00 <cfields> wumpus: haha, yes
1962 2014-12-23 23:37:35 <wumpus> cfields: not that there'd be much sense in it beyond just running the descriptor as a script
1963 2014-12-23 23:38:23 <firelegend> sipa:209?
1964 2014-12-23 23:38:42 Lightsword has joined
1965 2014-12-23 23:39:10 <sipa> firelegend: 209 was the protocol version used in bitcoin 0.2.19 (released in may 2010)
1966 2014-12-23 23:40:09 <firelegend> I was actually asking what I needed to implement so that other nodes do not add me to their ban list and furthermore broadcast transactions to my mini-node
1967 2014-12-23 23:40:25 <cfields> wumpus: before hacking on gitian anymore, i think an interesting next step would be for two of us to use crosstool to build a mingw toolchain, then build bitcoin-setup.exe from depends, and compare
1968 2014-12-23 23:40:45 <cfields> that's pretty minimal effort, and would give us a good idea of what we're up against
1969 2014-12-23 23:40:49 <wumpus> yes
1970 2014-12-23 23:41:08 <michagogo> 01:37:57 <wumpus> cfields: not that there'd be much sense in it beyond just running the descriptor as a script <-- Well, there's some gitian boilerplate that gets tacked on to every gitian descriptor script iirc
1971 2014-12-23 23:42:25 <sipa> firelegend: just don't send invalid transactions, pretty much
1972 2014-12-23 23:42:50 <cfields> michagogo: most of that (normalized time, dirs, etc) could just be moved into depends
1973 2014-12-23 23:43:02 Belxjander has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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1975 2014-12-23 23:43:32 <wumpus> gitian doesn't do normalized time on itself does it, you still have to use faketime manually
1976 2014-12-23 23:43:48 <cfields> right
1977 2014-12-23 23:44:16 <cfields> with the new descriptors though, i made wrappers around all faketime calls
1978 2014-12-23 23:44:31 <cfields> so we know exactly where they're needed, not long blocks of normalized time
1979 2014-12-23 23:44:44 <cfields> it's very minimal
1980 2014-12-23 23:44:58 saulimus has quit (Quit: Leaving)
1981 2014-12-23 23:46:10 <michagogo> cfields: btw, did you ever look into detaching win32 sigs?
1982 2014-12-23 23:46:13 <wumpus> cfields: btw, in theory, if we build our own toolchain, we could avoid faketime completely? the compiler and binutils could be patched to not do the nasty time usage
1983 2014-12-23 23:46:14 <michagogo> er, win*
1984 2014-12-23 23:46:16 Belxjander has joined
1985 2014-12-23 23:46:29 <cfields> wumpus: yes, i was just thinking the same
1986 2014-12-23 23:46:40 <wumpus> cfields: IE  isn't it mostly tools like ar which are build as part of the toolchain anyhow
1987 2014-12-23 23:47:06 <cfields> wumpus: yes, but all of those are deterministic now anyway with recent versions
1988 2014-12-23 23:47:15 <cfields> so it's down to just 2-3 progs, probably
1989 2014-12-23 23:47:27 <wumpus> cfields: ok
1990 2014-12-23 23:48:37 <cfields> the list is: dmg, genisoimage, makensis, zip
1991 2014-12-23 23:48:56 <wumpus> ok, nothing actually part of the toolchain. unfortunate
1992 2014-12-23 23:49:13 <cfields> we build the first two already
1993 2014-12-23 23:49:34 <wumpus> zip is very easy to implement with a python script, btw
1994 2014-12-23 23:49:35 <cfields> we could probably find a prog to create deterministic zips, there's bound to be something out there already
1995 2014-12-23 23:49:46 <cfields> or that :)
1996 2014-12-23 23:49:58 <wumpus> I did create a metadata-less deterministic zip python script once
1997 2014-12-23 23:51:11 <cfields> perfect
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1999 2014-12-23 23:51:40 <cfields> deterministic across python versions?
2000 2014-12-23 23:52:00 <wumpus> I'd more worry about libz versions
2001 2014-12-23 23:52:16 <michagogo> cfields: BTW, how come the gitian package name is bitcoin-0.10?
2002 2014-12-23 23:52:30 <wumpus> or what is the underlying compression library. I doubt python has any influence .
2003 2014-12-23 23:52:32 <michagogo> Do we specifically want to rebuild all deps for 0.11?
2004 2014-12-23 23:53:11 <cfields> michagogo: yes. they're bound to be mostly changed anyway, and that way for 0.10.1, you can have a cached version of 0.10 laying around for use
2005 2014-12-23 23:54:39 <Luke-Jr> cfields: eh, would 0.11 delete cached deps for 0.10?
2006 2014-12-23 23:55:24 <cfields> no. they're completely separate. if you know you'll never build 0.10.x, you can safely nuke that without disturbing 0.11
2007 2014-12-23 23:56:14 <Luke-Jr> I mean, if all versions used the same 'bitcoin' package name
2008 2014-12-23 23:56:34 <Luke-Jr> then 0.10 and 0.11 could *potentially* share, and when they didn't, it wouldn't hurt each other
2009 2014-12-23 23:56:45 <cfields> oh. no. in that case, you'd just get both mixed in. they wouldn't clash.
2010 2014-12-23 23:56:59 <cfields> correct.
2011 2014-12-23 23:57:07 <Luke-Jr> so why not mix them in?
2012 2014-12-23 23:58:02 <cfields> to make it easier to delete old ones. if that turns out to not be helpful, we can just change it back to "bitcon" and have them share, no problem
2013 2014-12-23 23:58:12 <Luke-Jr> i c
2014 2014-12-23 23:58:34 <Luke-Jr> I suppose someone could just symlink the dirs if they want it shared
2015 2014-12-23 23:58:36 <cfields> i figured by the time we were building two separate versions, they probably wouldn't share much
2016 2014-12-23 23:59:25 <Luke-Jr> dunno, bdb never changes at least :p
2017 2014-12-23 23:59:31 <michagogo> cfields: some of it has no reason to hange
2018 2014-12-23 23:59:32 <michagogo> change
2019 2014-12-23 23:59:37 <michagogo> Like bdb, or qrencode
2020 2014-12-23 23:59:48 <michagogo> I don't think protobuf has changed either
2021 2014-12-23 23:59:50 <cfields> i've bumped bdb at least once personally
2022 2014-12-23 23:59:51 <wumpus> those are built very quickly though