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151 2014-12-26 05:45:45 <fanquake> Would anyone be opposed to raisng the debian version suggested in the gitian building guide to 7.7? (currently 7.4)
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153 2014-12-26 05:48:19 <Dizzle> (I have no say, but am curious) Is it a compatibility issue or is there some new fancybusiness to take advantage of in 7.7+?
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156 2014-12-26 05:51:52 <gmaxwell> fanquake: yes, it would make the resulting binaries incompatible with older distributions.
157 2014-12-26 05:52:39 <gmaxwell> oh the _debian_ version.
158 2014-12-26 05:53:15 <gmaxwell> I don't see any reason the host couldn't be 7.7.
159 2014-12-26 05:53:35 <fanquake> Yea, you had me rethinking myself for a second there..
160 2014-12-26 05:54:03 <gmaxwell> Sorry. Long day.
161 2014-12-26 05:54:28 <fanquake> Just asking because the current link to the debian netinst is broken, and I cant for the life of me seem to find a new link to download 7.4..
162 2014-12-26 05:55:03 <gmaxwell> hah. Are you able to find any digital signatures for _any_ of the netinst images, incidentally?
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164 2014-12-26 05:56:57 <fanquake> I can’t seem to find anything. All the links on https://www.debian.org/distrib/netinst link straight too, and begin downloading an .iso
165 2014-12-26 05:57:10 <fanquake> No mention of sigs or any other verification
166 2014-12-26 05:58:10 <gmaxwell> ::sigh::
167 2014-12-26 06:00:04 <fanquake> Also http://archive.debian.org/debian/dists/ doesn’t seem to have been updated since 5.0 came out, so I’m not sure what the deal is
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170 2014-12-26 06:18:06 <fanquake> Dizzle Completely missed your comment. Nothing new/fancy in the new debian. building is still exactly the same. I just can’t find anywhere to download the older version.
171 2014-12-26 06:18:55 <Dizzle> cool, thanks for clarifying!
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175 2014-12-26 06:42:19 <Techguy305> oes anyone know where I can buy bitcoins with paypal other than localbitcoins
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181 2014-12-26 06:50:46 <fanquake> Techguy305 This isn’t the right channel to be asking in. Try #bitcoin or #bitcoin-otc
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223 2014-12-26 08:29:58 <midnightmagic> PPC host, using branch 2014_12_bigendian at git commit c32fbeb50ea8748cf07c5fcf2c5281843ccfbd4b, beginning with a local, LAN-only sync on 2014-12-22 14:42:27, ending on 2014-12-25 09:15:45, I managed to get a block checksum mismatch; and then a moment later a leveldb corruption error.
224 2014-12-26 08:30:46 <midnightmagic> unfortunately i don't have coredumps turned on for that host so I don't have a stack trace.
225 2014-12-26 08:31:11 <midnightmagic> never really understood why the default is not to dump core in linux but anyway
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245 2014-12-26 09:25:21 <gmaxwell> midnightmagic: interesting!! had the machine had any unclean power off events or the like that could have corrupted the leveldb?
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251 2014-12-26 09:43:56 <Diablo-D3> [03:31:45] <midnightmagic> never really understood why the default is not to dump core in linux but anyway
252 2014-12-26 09:43:59 <Diablo-D3> disk space.
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255 2014-12-26 09:45:46 <haakonn> hope it's ok to ask this here: UTXO is kept in memory - is this for performance reasons only? is it possible that storage tech advances (solid-state etc) will make it possible to move UTXO to disk in the future?
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257 2014-12-26 09:49:30 <gmaxwell> haakonn: it is not kept in memory.
258 2014-12-26 09:49:36 <gmaxwell> Why did you believe it was?
259 2014-12-26 09:51:00 <gmaxwell> haakonn: ^
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261 2014-12-26 09:51:56 <haakonn> gmaxwell:  oh! i was pretty sure i read about it back in the day, especially when MasterCoin was first developed and everyone was worried about UTXO bloat
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263 2014-12-26 09:52:27 <Diablo-D3> all we need now is VisaCoin, AmexCoin, and DisCoin.
264 2014-12-26 09:53:19 <haakonn> I'm asking because tweetbit.org plan to add "tweets" as well as photos and videos to the blockchain, and they refuse to use OP_RETURN because they worry about propagation and exclusion by miners, so they essentially want to put videos etc into UTXO
265 2014-12-26 09:53:25 <gmaxwell> haakonn: Just because it isn't in ram doesn't mean it's size isn't critical: utxo size determines how much storage a full node needs. It also bounds the verification performance... e.g. if you're taking a 10ms seek against a slow near line disk for every txin your performance will be miserable.
266 2014-12-26 09:54:01 <gmaxwell> haakonn: man thats horrible. They're much more likely to be blocked by participants the worse they abuse the system.
267 2014-12-26 09:54:37 <gmaxwell> (it's also pointless and unworkable, since they'll go broke before getting even a single frame in, but whatever)
268 2014-12-26 09:54:41 <haakonn> gmaxwell:  yes, i guess it's less horrible than i thought, but it's bad. i spent yesterday trying to explain UTXO to him but they seem nonchalant
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270 2014-12-26 09:56:04 <haakonn> they think video has "hurdles", but are optimistic about photos, voicemail etc
271 2014-12-26 09:56:09 <gmaxwell> haakonn: I don't know that its less bad than you're thinking, I mean our full node count is falling precipitiously already, in part due to how burdensome running a node is.  When we expose pruning to users it'll make a huge improvement (utxo set size is currently 550mb) but when people abuse the system for data storage the utxo size growth just becomes the same as blockchain grow, no improvement.
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274 2014-12-26 09:58:27 <gmaxwell> haakonn: none of those things actually work. Current fees in the network are around $500 bucks a megabyte, and they'll only go up. Not to mention participants _will_ react to that kind of use by active filtering (esp since it creates increasd systemic risk, and not just wasteful resource consumption and during our full node storage requirements from quasi-log to linear)
275 2014-12-26 09:58:40 <haakonn> "The problem with OP_RETURN, is that it can be censored by being prune-able" - is what he told me
276 2014-12-26 09:59:28 <gmaxwell> uh huh what?
277 2014-12-26 09:59:37 <gmaxwell> Do you have any idea what he actually meant?
278 2014-12-26 09:59:53 <haakonn> not really he thinks pruning is censorship
279 2014-12-26 09:59:55 <gmaxwell> Does he know that nodes already will not return random data lookup queries for _anything_?
280 2014-12-26 10:00:39 <gmaxwell> It's externally indistinguishable if a node has pruned an unspendable utxo entry or not. A third party cannot detect it.
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282 2014-12-26 10:01:10 * gmaxwell gets really fed up with all the incompetent sleezebags that glom onto abusing bitcoin as their next great plan.
283 2014-12-26 10:02:14 <haakonn> well, looks like his efforts will fail, so i guess it's nothing to get worked up about :) thanks for all your answers
284 2014-12-26 10:03:18 <haakonn> he goes on about being "bloat-conscious" and "working with the community"
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286 2014-12-26 10:03:57 <gmaxwell> yea, there have been two dozen other things, and they do fail and fall into obscurity. Though some have managed to put dozens of megabytes of unprunable junk into utxo set before going bankrupt which is unfortunate at ultimately reduces the decenteralization of bitcoin ever so much.
287 2014-12-26 10:04:46 <haakonn> annoying
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296 2014-12-26 10:43:52 <sipa> haakonn: the point is that utxo data must be "in fast storage"; which may mean RAM or disk + caches or whatever
297 2014-12-26 10:44:16 <sipa> the faster accessible it can be, the faster blocks can propagate
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300 2014-12-26 10:49:50 <Luke-Jr> faster, or less access required
301 2014-12-26 10:50:04 <Luke-Jr> ie, OP_RETURN has half the impact no matter what the speed
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304 2014-12-26 10:51:26 <michagogo> fanquake: is the debian 7.4v7.7 the same as e.g. Ubuntu 12.04.4v12.04.5?
305 2014-12-26 10:52:20 <michagogo> If so, that means it's just a newer install image, as soon as you apt-get dist-upgrade on 12.04.4 you get 12.04.5
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310 2014-12-26 11:02:07 <haakonn> sipa:  i see, that makes sense
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312 2014-12-26 11:07:04 <midnightmagic> who went bankrupt..?
313 2014-12-26 11:07:10 <midnightmagic> (after spamming the bc?)
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316 2014-12-26 11:10:31 <haakonn> midnightmagic:  not sure anybody did?
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318 2014-12-26 11:14:44 <fanquake> michagogo I’ve just changed that because the current iso link is broken, and I can’t find a new link for 7.4. Functionally it makes no different to building either way.
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320 2014-12-26 11:14:56 <fanquake> If you can find a working link for 7.4 I’ll change it back
321 2014-12-26 11:15:12 <midnightmagic> haakonn: gmaxwell mentioned about an hour ago that some douchebags have managed to spam dozens of megabytes into the blockchain before going bankrupt.
322 2014-12-26 11:15:40 <michagogo> fanquake: just wondering what it is, how it works
323 2014-12-26 11:16:04 <michagogo> If it's like Ubuntu's point releases it literally makes no difference
324 2014-12-26 11:16:42 <haakonn> midnightmagic:  ah yes. i don't think anybody actually went into bankcruptcy protection or anything like that, but rather they spammed the blockchain/utxo for a while before finally admitting to themselves that it was economically infeasible
325 2014-12-26 11:16:47 <fanquake> Sure. Except for the fact that you can nolonger download 7.4. (or atleast I can’t seem to find where to get it from)
326 2014-12-26 11:17:11 <midnightmagic> usually he's more precise than that with his language when he's mocking someone.
327 2014-12-26 11:17:31 <Luke-Jr> bankruptcy != bankruptcy protection AFAIK
328 2014-12-26 11:18:31 <haakonn> Luke-Jr:  true, but "bankruptcy" is a legal thing that you declare etc, afaik? i doubt anyone did that. but if you mean "bankcruptcy" as in "we ran out of money, oops", then that probably happened
329 2014-12-26 11:19:03 <Luke-Jr> I'd mean it as the latter, at least.
330 2014-12-26 11:20:29 <haakonn> bankruptcy*
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334 2014-12-26 11:21:44 <haakonn> (not many english words have 2 series of 3 consonants, but "bankruptcy" is certainly one of them)
335 2014-12-26 11:21:45 <Luke-Jr> wow. how many people knew about gdb -tui?
336 2014-12-26 11:22:24 <Luke-Jr> this is pretty neat
337 2014-12-26 11:22:55 <wumpus> I knew about it, but agree that it is neat
338 2014-12-26 11:23:29 bedeho has joined
339 2014-12-26 11:24:24 <Luke-Jr> no longer do I need to guess line numbers with 'lis' :D
340 2014-12-26 11:26:34 <midnightmagic> schmuck is basically english now
341 2014-12-26 11:26:49 <midnightmagic> oh, 2 series.
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401 2014-12-26 13:26:04 <dzyk> hi
402 2014-12-26 13:26:11 <dzyk> i need help with pycoin
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416 2014-12-26 13:37:17 <dzyk> hi
417 2014-12-26 13:37:36 <dzyk> i need python implementation for bitcoin
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433 2014-12-26 14:10:57 linux has joined
434 2014-12-26 14:11:17 <linux> hi i have registered on bitcoin foundation, do i have any access to a dev pool ?
435 2014-12-26 14:11:28 <linux> can i for example vote for anything new ?
436 2014-12-26 14:12:40 <Luke-Jr> linux: off-topic, #bitcoin
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442 2014-12-26 14:22:15 <linux> where can i see te dev progress on bitcoin ?https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin here is not much work to see
443 2014-12-26 14:23:10 <haakonn> check latest commits to master in https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/commits/master, or check activity in pull requests, https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pulls
444 2014-12-26 14:23:31 <haakonn> and read the bitcoin-development mailing lists if you are interested
445 2014-12-26 14:23:32 <teward> linux: um... https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/commits/master is the commits list, i see a lot of activity in the past 2 weeks
446 2014-12-26 14:23:42 <teward> wow i'm lagging horridly >.>
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449 2014-12-26 14:24:10 <linux> thanks
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